I don’t necessarily agree with the idea of slowly fading away instead of being honest about your feelings. I remember an episode where someone shared how upsetting it was when another person distanced themselves without any explanation or reason. If that happened to me, I’d just feel even more guilty. And the person won’t necessarily understand, they’ll suffer and keep wondering 'what did I do wrong,' etc. Also, I believe it’s not about serving yourself, but about considering the feelings of others. Dragging things out is always worse than being direct. And it’s totally possible to be direct without being aggressive or disrespectful. Nothing in life is really that definitive, so I think the best path is always to be honest. I’m a big believer in never feeling guilty about our own feelings, especially when it comes to feeling obligated to see someone-whether a friend, partner, or family member. If your friends are mature and truly love you, they will understand any reason you have. What do you think? P.S. I love you girls, you make my days so much better.
Sometimes I see hanging out with people who I don’t 100% click with as an act of service for the other person. I can grow by serving others, if it’s balanced by a healthy focus on keeping my own energy reserves full with other relationships.this assumes the other person isn’t toxic of course, more a matter of not vibing as much with someone.
Ok LOVE this convo and I have thoughts on boundaries I want to share: My understanding of boundaries is that they’re not about punishing someone else, but rather setting limits for yourself. So both the implicit and explicit consequences count, in both the ways Caroline and Jess are talking about them. For me, I’ve set a boundary with a parent who, if given the time to, would talk at me for hours on end without asking a single reciprocal question. So I just don’t give them access to me to do that. It’s still a boundary-I won’t accept being talked at like this. But explaining it to them in this case (with undiagnosed mental health issues etc) wouldn’t change anything-I think it’d really just make them feel bad unnecessarily, similar to the unaligned friend situation. But I’m still setting and holding to a limit, whether or not the other person accurately understands why. If you want them to know, and that’s a useful tool for the relationship you’re trying to cultivate, that’s great. But even if the religious mom misconstrues why they’re not being invited to your kid’s events, the boundary has still been set that you won’t allow them access to preach their religion at your child. Does that make sense?
kindergarten teaching the other adults in your life (clients, parents, etc) is SERIOUSLY the key. calm instructions and expectations, clear consequences, immediate results, and no shouting. it's how I got my pronouns and new name recognized, how I get my clients to get in line at work, and how I get major communication props from my coworkers. babes it's just toddler logic
Nah. I've decided that adults are adults and I don't get paid for toddlering people. I just guage how much misbehavior and bullshit is socially acceptable somewhere and I adjust my own actions to be in line with the accepted culture there. I'm not obligated to have more empathy or manners than others around me. And if people need spoonfeeding, their carer needs to get them a shadow or interpreter or nurse maid. Not my responsibility.
@@M4rkeritavilleI work in a tech admin/service position and often need very specific things from our clients in order to do my job, so I toe the line between communication in a kind and polite way they expect, getting the assets I need exactly how I need them, and telling them what will happen to their deadlines and end-product if they keep messing up. it's a hazard of tech work when the client relationship matters more than my ego
@gayjeris more power to you, but I can't work in a place where unpaid caregiving that isn't reciprocated is required of me. It's a massive trigger for me. Until my cup gets filled, I'm not filling anyone's cup, and I'm not expecting anyone to come fill my cup, so unpaid care labor can go fuck right off.
I have to say that I do agree with Caroline about walking out as a boundary. I think that sometimes those religious comments can be controlling and might sometimes fit the category of emotional abuse. I think that has just worked very well for me. And it is hard, you have to be very strong in that. And I think it is helpful to do it WITH love. Like, I love you but this does not work for me. I think it's necessary if you've told them before but they are still crossing the boundary. I think just remind your parent or loved one that you still love them and aren't leaving them, the comments just won't work for you and there are no exceptions.
My opinion on the mom thing is that you can not control what she says. If you are bold enough to tell her that you don’t plan to teach your daughter the things she believes then that’s fine, but sounds like you don’t want to have that conversation with her, and that’s okay too. I would recommend literally just putting up with whatever she says, but teach your daughter what you believe and that you and your mom do not believe the same thing. Tell her that your mom believes it strongly, and feels compelled to talk about it, which makes sense, but you do not agree. Teach her that different ppl believe in different things and some day it will be up to her to decide what she believes. Tell her you love her whatever she decides.
Whew!!!! Probably the best episode I’ve ever heard thus far. Gold! A+! 1. Thank you. Both of you are superb in your expression/processing of these very necessary conversations. 2. I feel like the themes expressed here are exactly what I’m navigating in lots of my interpersonal relationships in this stage of my life. 3. Everything Jess explained about the response being outsized/an over reaction compared to the situation itself, is so on the nose! I’ve often been stuck on the “how do you say…” and quite frankly when I don’t have the language to explicitly name the shift in the dynamic between me and someone else, I unconsciously start to take on the emotional responsibility of potentially alleviating pain or disappointment on someone else’s behalf and it’s just not what we’re here to do. We literally can’t. I’ve been thinking that even if we could and it absolved someone of those feelings, who’s to say it wouldn’t morph again?! A truth is, being responsible for the management of someone else’s feelings just isn’t sustainable.
I really enjoy your in depth, honest conversations. Very on time with this one. I am a Singer songwriter that recently moved to Nashville to do my MBA and do music. And I don't feel like working on my music lol. I've been so self chastising and feeling like a quitter too. I've enjoyed researching for my classes and feel like I'm abandoning my musical dreams. Thanks for the reminders and thoughts.
My favorite episode yet! I need to come to terms with the fact that I won't usually be understood in my differing views from my parents. And I'm in my late forties!
Can we do more work related stuff? Loved your Episodes on that !! I was thinking about something Like Finding your Self in the work world. For example I find it easy to Talk to people but at work I struggle so much because I am affraid to say something Wrong. And some tips or pov on finding a career that suits you! U too are so cool and nice to listend to !!!🧚🏼✨🧡 greetings from germany, girlis! PS: Caroline, do you still oder your room/ funiture Expertise? I Moved in a much smaller Space an I struggleeee 🥴 maybe you have an good advise
yeah, sounds like a lie if you say "i have plans". But you can simply say "I can't" -- wanting to have a night of downtime with absolutely no socializing scheduled is as legitimate a reason for saying no as "i have plans.". Say whatever you're comfortable with! But to me, the point is that there are plenty of valid reasons to not want to give your time and energy to people/things beyond simply "i'm double booked."
i LOVE this episode!!! as a lifelong chronic people pleaser, at 31 i am FINALLY learning how to say no, and holy shit has it been scary and empowering.
I have 100% had the religious arguments with my grandma and her son and how they impose on me and my kids. With my uncles aggression, I had to go no contact completely and block him. My grandma still says what she wants in her teachings to my kids. On one hand, I hate it and want her to stop. On another, I understand that in order for my kids to be well rounded and make their own decisions, they need to have access to all the different kinds of ways people think and live. (Especially those that play a large role in their lives) Otherwise, I'm no better than the grandma for trying to shove my opinions down the kids throats. I do not yet have a solution for when she decides to take my kids to see her son. They don't like him either but choose to go for the activities he provides and the fact they want to hang out with grandma.
Productivity does not equal your value. I know most people think it does. It doesnt. Also, value is inherent not earned. That you have to earn it is a fabrication. Or, a choice. Earning your value is not the same as just being a good human showimg up for your life and community and environment which is a good thing of course. Not everyone has the same capaciites for all things and this does not impact your value. Value is a term aplied to products or companies not humans. Values yes of course but value? No.
God, this was depressing for me. Now I have to worry about friends "leading me on"? This new worry that I'm an obligation feels like when marketers invent new insecurities. Life is so exhausting.
Oh no, when you realise you're doing the thing at 19 minutes in except to people that you want around by accident, not to people you don't really want to or have the energy to see.
Not ignoring. We discussed this a lot, specifically before recording this episode which was the first episode recorded post-election. We concluded that want to maintain a sanctuary of an escape as much as you all do. However, if you're interested in our political beliefs we make those pretty clear on our personal accounts, but this place will likely remain a place where we can all escape the stress we're feeling every day. We've come to that conclusion for a few reasons: 1. If listeners are looking for places to commiserate online and talk about politics, you can find that easily. 2. We started this podcast as a place to provide a comforting escape. Preserving that feels more valuable right now than becoming yet another platform that echoes the same worries and fears we feel all day long. 3. We find it valuable to weigh in on a given conversation when we have something new to add to the conversation. Right now we don't feel that we do. We need time to metabolize as much as everyone else. But if that feeling changes one day and we feel it would add to the conversation to weigh in, then we will do that. We're very intentional about this hear. And while weighing in would certainly provide a certain value, it would also cost us something else in losing a place that can be an escape for us - we need the break too. I understand that may be disappointing to some listeners, and we understand why. Ultimately, we would likely receive much more wide approval (from a largely liberal audience) if we DID talk about politics more, as most other platforms with our audience do. But this decision is about what feels correct to us right now. We also strongly believe that this podcast is very political in its own way. We do not discuss *what* to think, but rather *how* to think - as best as we are grappling with that understanding. And that feels very good to us. We hope the podcast can still bring you lots of comfort following the election. It is certainly a place where we are doing a lot of our processing.
This is my first time listening to your podcast. Thank you both for your ramblings (insight!). Good reminders! Especially the one where I was reminded that I am an adult (not the kid anymore) dealing with another adult. 🫶🏼
Ugh, how are you two scientists not licensed therapists?! This is A+ shit right here.
I don’t necessarily agree with the idea of slowly fading away instead of being honest about your feelings. I remember an episode where someone shared how upsetting it was when another person distanced themselves without any explanation or reason. If that happened to me, I’d just feel even more guilty. And the person won’t necessarily understand, they’ll suffer and keep wondering 'what did I do wrong,' etc.
Also, I believe it’s not about serving yourself, but about considering the feelings of others. Dragging things out is always worse than being direct. And it’s totally possible to be direct without being aggressive or disrespectful. Nothing in life is really that definitive, so I think the best path is always to be honest.
I’m a big believer in never feeling guilty about our own feelings, especially when it comes to feeling obligated to see someone-whether a friend, partner, or family member. If your friends are mature and truly love you, they will understand any reason you have.
What do you think?
P.S. I love you girls, you make my days so much better.
Caroline speaking about not being understood was a lightbulb moment for me.
Y'all this episode was a banger - you're in a flow state.
57:00 from one of my favorite artists/singers: "Giving up decisively also counts as courage."
🥹💜💜
@@yessismiles💜💜💜
Sometimes I see hanging out with people who I don’t 100% click with as an act of service for the other person. I can grow by serving others, if it’s balanced by a healthy focus on keeping my own energy reserves full with other relationships.this assumes the other person isn’t toxic of course, more a matter of not vibing as much with someone.
Ok LOVE this convo and I have thoughts on boundaries I want to share: My understanding of boundaries is that they’re not about punishing someone else, but rather setting limits for yourself. So both the implicit and explicit consequences count, in both the ways Caroline and Jess are talking about them.
For me, I’ve set a boundary with a parent who, if given the time to, would talk at me for hours on end without asking a single reciprocal question. So I just don’t give them access to me to do that. It’s still a boundary-I won’t accept being talked at like this. But explaining it to them in this case (with undiagnosed mental health issues etc) wouldn’t change anything-I think it’d really just make them feel bad unnecessarily, similar to the unaligned friend situation. But I’m still setting and holding to a limit, whether or not the other person accurately understands why. If you want them to know, and that’s a useful tool for the relationship you’re trying to cultivate, that’s great. But even if the religious mom misconstrues why they’re not being invited to your kid’s events, the boundary has still been set that you won’t allow them access to preach their religion at your child. Does that make sense?
kindergarten teaching the other adults in your life (clients, parents, etc) is SERIOUSLY the key. calm instructions and expectations, clear consequences, immediate results, and no shouting. it's how I got my pronouns and new name recognized, how I get my clients to get in line at work, and how I get major communication props from my coworkers. babes it's just toddler logic
Nah. I've decided that adults are adults and I don't get paid for toddlering people. I just guage how much misbehavior and bullshit is socially acceptable somewhere and I adjust my own actions to be in line with the accepted culture there. I'm not obligated to have more empathy or manners than others around me. And if people need spoonfeeding, their carer needs to get them a shadow or interpreter or nurse maid. Not my responsibility.
Lmao this is literally how I have to talk to my dog training clients.
@@M4rkeritavilleI work in a tech admin/service position and often need very specific things from our clients in order to do my job, so I toe the line between communication in a kind and polite way they expect, getting the assets I need exactly how I need them, and telling them what will happen to their deadlines and end-product if they keep messing up. it's a hazard of tech work when the client relationship matters more than my ego
@gayjeris more power to you, but I can't work in a place where unpaid caregiving that isn't reciprocated is required of me. It's a massive trigger for me. Until my cup gets filled, I'm not filling anyone's cup, and I'm not expecting anyone to come fill my cup, so unpaid care labor can go fuck right off.
I have to say that I do agree with Caroline about walking out as a boundary. I think that sometimes those religious comments can be controlling and might sometimes fit the category of emotional abuse. I think that has just worked very well for me. And it is hard, you have to be very strong in that. And I think it is helpful to do it WITH love. Like, I love you but this does not work for me. I think it's necessary if you've told them before but they are still crossing the boundary. I think just remind your parent or loved one that you still love them and aren't leaving them, the comments just won't work for you and there are no exceptions.
My opinion on the mom thing is that you can not control what she says. If you are bold enough to tell her that you don’t plan to teach your daughter the things she believes then that’s fine, but sounds like you don’t want to have that conversation with her, and that’s okay too.
I would recommend literally just putting up with whatever she says, but teach your daughter what you believe and that you and your mom do not believe the same thing. Tell her that your mom believes it strongly, and feels compelled to talk about it, which makes sense, but you do not agree. Teach her that different ppl believe in different things and some day it will be up to her to decide what she believes.
Tell her you love her whatever she decides.
Whew!!!!
Probably the best episode I’ve ever heard thus far. Gold! A+!
1. Thank you. Both of you are superb in your expression/processing of these very necessary conversations.
2. I feel like the themes expressed here are exactly what I’m navigating in lots of my interpersonal relationships in this stage of my life.
3. Everything Jess explained about the response being outsized/an over reaction compared to the situation itself, is so on the nose!
I’ve often been stuck on the “how do you say…” and quite frankly when I don’t have the language to explicitly name the shift in the dynamic between me and someone else, I unconsciously start to take on the emotional responsibility of potentially alleviating pain or disappointment on someone else’s behalf and it’s just not what we’re here to do. We literally can’t. I’ve been thinking that even if we could and it absolved someone of those feelings, who’s to say it wouldn’t morph again?! A truth is, being responsible for the management of someone else’s feelings just isn’t sustainable.
I really enjoy your in depth, honest conversations. Very on time with this one. I am a Singer songwriter that recently moved to Nashville to do my MBA and do music. And I don't feel like working on my music lol. I've been so self chastising and feeling like a quitter too. I've enjoyed researching for my classes and feel like I'm abandoning my musical dreams. Thanks for the reminders and thoughts.
I’m a dog trainer and your training advice is spot on.
Yes, it's a once in a lifetime thing with old friends. Thank you for this reminder❤
Great episode. It gave me a lot to think about and added perspective for my own behaviors and how to respond to those of others. Thank you.
My favorite episode yet! I need to come to terms with the fact that I won't usually be understood in my differing views from my parents. And I'm in my late forties!
The thumbnail pics for these are always so cute!
Can we do more work related stuff? Loved your Episodes on that !! I was thinking about something Like Finding your Self in the work world. For example I find it easy to Talk to people but at work I struggle so much because I am affraid to say something Wrong. And some tips or pov on finding a career that suits you! U too are so cool and nice to listend to !!!🧚🏼✨🧡 greetings from germany, girlis! PS: Caroline, do you still oder your room/ funiture Expertise? I Moved in a much smaller Space an I struggleeee 🥴 maybe you have an good advise
Is it a lie to say, "I already have plans" if you already planned to say no next time they asked? 😅
yeah, sounds like a lie if you say "i have plans". But you can simply say "I can't" -- wanting to have a night of downtime with absolutely no socializing scheduled is as legitimate a reason for saying no as "i have plans.". Say whatever you're comfortable with! But to me, the point is that there are plenty of valid reasons to not want to give your time and energy to people/things beyond simply "i'm double booked."
One of my favorite episodes, thank you for sharing your wisdom :)
What an episode
How do you deal with situations where colleagues or someone in a social event is being rude or dismissive or you feel left out?
i LOVE this episode!!! as a lifelong chronic people pleaser, at 31 i am FINALLY learning how to say no, and holy shit has it been scary and empowering.
I have 100% had the religious arguments with my grandma and her son and how they impose on me and my kids. With my uncles aggression, I had to go no contact completely and block him. My grandma still says what she wants in her teachings to my kids. On one hand, I hate it and want her to stop. On another, I understand that in order for my kids to be well rounded and make their own decisions, they need to have access to all the different kinds of ways people think and live. (Especially those that play a large role in their lives) Otherwise, I'm no better than the grandma for trying to shove my opinions down the kids throats. I do not yet have a solution for when she decides to take my kids to see her son. They don't like him either but choose to go for the activities he provides and the fact they want to hang out with grandma.
Productivity does not equal your value. I know most people think it does. It doesnt. Also, value is inherent not earned. That you have to earn it is a fabrication. Or, a choice. Earning your value is not the same as just being a good human showimg up for your life and community and environment which is a good thing of course. Not everyone has the same capaciites for all things and this does not impact your value. Value is a term aplied to products or companies not humans. Values yes of course but value? No.
God, this was depressing for me. Now I have to worry about friends "leading me on"? This new worry that I'm an obligation feels like when marketers invent new insecurities. Life is so exhausting.
Oh no, when you realise you're doing the thing at 19 minutes in except to people that you want around by accident, not to people you don't really want to or have the energy to see.
Did my comment get deleted?
Maybe I never posted it… I am very curious
How about a video on how we survive the coming storm? I’m scared and most folks I know are, too!
Same. I find it weird that they’re ignoring the elephant in the room. Kind of hard to ignore…
There is no coming storm. Lol
Not ignoring. We discussed this a lot, specifically before recording this episode which was the first episode recorded post-election. We concluded that want to maintain a sanctuary of an escape as much as you all do. However, if you're interested in our political beliefs we make those pretty clear on our personal accounts, but this place will likely remain a place where we can all escape the stress we're feeling every day. We've come to that conclusion for a few reasons: 1. If listeners are looking for places to commiserate online and talk about politics, you can find that easily. 2. We started this podcast as a place to provide a comforting escape. Preserving that feels more valuable right now than becoming yet another platform that echoes the same worries and fears we feel all day long. 3. We find it valuable to weigh in on a given conversation when we have something new to add to the conversation. Right now we don't feel that we do. We need time to metabolize as much as everyone else. But if that feeling changes one day and we feel it would add to the conversation to weigh in, then we will do that. We're very intentional about this hear. And while weighing in would certainly provide a certain value, it would also cost us something else in losing a place that can be an escape for us - we need the break too. I understand that may be disappointing to some listeners, and we understand why. Ultimately, we would likely receive much more wide approval (from a largely liberal audience) if we DID talk about politics more, as most other platforms with our audience do. But this decision is about what feels correct to us right now. We also strongly believe that this podcast is very political in its own way. We do not discuss *what* to think, but rather *how* to think - as best as we are grappling with that understanding. And that feels very good to us. We hope the podcast can still bring you lots of comfort following the election. It is certainly a place where we are doing a lot of our processing.
@@Not4EveryonePod well, you have to do you, and I realize that. I’ll still watch and enjoy. Caroline is like meth…gotta have it!
@@NancyCooper-mw2hp Strong with you the denial is.
Not letting the parents know about your boundaries is passive-aggressive behaviour. Not helpful in my opinion.
This is my first time listening to your podcast. Thank you both for your ramblings (insight!). Good reminders! Especially the one where I was reminded that I am an adult (not the kid anymore) dealing with another adult. 🫶🏼