There were amazing clones we love, there were generic clones, and there were awful we despise. We can’t have one without. Truthfully, the bad clones just make the good clones look even better.
Exactly. Just like with the Jedi Order, the Republic, and the Separatists, there were good guys and bad guys in all three groups just like the Clones, for every great Jedi or Clone like Obi-Wan, Anakin, Ahsoka, Plo Koon, Rex, Wolffee, Cody, and so on, there are terrible evil dick ones that make us like the good ones all the more, like your Pong Krells, Ki-Aid-Mundi, Fox, Faie and so on.
Well, considering the fact that clones were made to have as little empathy towards most things (but not to the point where they became psychos) as possible, along with the fact that they were taught only how to kill and be soldiers, it's not exactly surprising that few clones would attempt to see the bigger picture, with even fewer realizing what kind of horrible lives they were living or what they were actually living and fighting for. They were pretty much the CIS's droid army in flesh, just with some more sentience and emotions at the end of the day, no matter how hard we try to justify it.
Aye, indeed. That's what makes the Clone Wars so incredible. It's not the usual good versus evil theme of Star Wars, but instead it's gray. Just like in the Revenge of the Sith Opening Crawl: "There are Heroes on both sides", while both sides also committed War Crimes, Genocides and Attrocities.
I wish this would be explored more, people are to used to Rex and Wolffe, they don’t realize that most clones aren’t like them, that the majority of them would follow orders without question, no matter how wrong it may be, because it’s all they know how to do, a separatist show would be cool, to actually see the separatists’s point of view and see the horrible things the clones and republic are capable of.
I honestly despise the inhibitor chips for this reason, around 90% of clones would of gunned down the jedi with no problems if palpatine asked them to WITHOUT any "control chip", I'm fine with humanizing the clones....but introducing control chips to make it seem like the clones are the "good guys" and they only did order 66 because of "Mind control" is just BS, only the more independent clones would need a chip like Commando's, Alpha ARCs and the 6 Null ARCs
@@weegee_darthno4045 Nothing BS about the concept. Palpatine has always been all about total control & being shit paranoid about everything. He couldn't have schemed like he did otherwise, & people like that DON'T like their subordinates even second guessing their orders, especially not one as vital as gunning down the Jedi they're with on the spot. Palpatine didn't just want the Jedi to die, he wanted them dead within MINUTES after the order is given. No amount of conditioning would've allowed most, if not all of the clones, to do exactly that. Despite the fact that clones being essentially bred as machines in the flesh, they're still biologically human after all. Put it this way, if you're ordered to kill your colleague whom you're good friends with, doing it AT YOUR OWN PACE within a set timeframe wouldn't have been a problem if you're blindly loyal to your superiors, yet i doubt you'd be able to put a bullet in his head while you two are having lunch when you got your order.
2:28 Palpatine: "I will not let this Republic, which has stood for thousands of years, be split in two!" Also Palpatine: *had split the Republic into two with the creation of the CIS through Dooku as part of his long-term master plan to form the Galactic Empire*
"When raised to follow orders and to die for a Republic and nothing else, right and wrong is nothing but a detrimental concept that impedes ones ability to fulfill ones purpose and complete their objective." Alpha- 73 Lieutenant Glaive
@@MandoMTL if you knew what he was talking about there was no reason to correct him. The simple misspelling did not make the sentence ineligible so there was no reason to comment “heroes”.
It all depends on your point of view. This one, Warhammer 40K got right - there are no good guys in war. Any war. I do not love the Clones because they are heroes (although I consider some few of them as such), but because they have such great character arcs and are simply portrayed as human - being bred in a laboratory or not.
Next time, please do a video when the Battle Droids are the good guys. And I mean the moments that they were actually fighting for something righteous for once instead of doing whatever the likes of the Hutt slimes such as Gunray and Tambor told them to do. Please! Pretty please! If there are good ones among the clones like Rex, some Battle Droids may have to!
They were soldiers. Soldiers are neither heroes nor villains. They are soldiers. They do what soldiers do (kill, kill, kill, kill, kill and kill). Depending upon the side of your faction, they are either villains or they are heroes. - Just ask the Jedi (after order 66 activated). The clones were "bad guys". During the Clone wars, they were heroes and the Jedi considered them heroes.
Yep, all Soldier's need to do are follow order's and kill, that's what most clones would do without chips, if order 66 came down, if the supreme chancellor told them the jedi are treasonous, 90% of clones would follow that order even without the chip...WITHOUT QUESTION, some would question it but do it either way (i.e bly) and some would outright refuse (Ion team)
@@weegee_darthno4045 I don't think that's even remotely true. The equivalent would be if the president of a modern nation ordered their army to kill high ranking generals en masse. With the exception that in addition to these being high ranking generals, they also served alongside the soldier and other officers regularly, meaning they were known well by the men. This would undoubtedly lead to conflict - every time someone attempts a military coup there are people on both sides. Clones without chips would end up fighting each other before they took on the Jedi, and the Jedi would have been able to use that to swing the battles and at least escape.
@@CJLloyd Ok, how bout you ask the dozen's of clones who executed it in legends PRE-2013 (the reason was they were indoctrinated from birth to follow the 150 contingency order's without question)
“The circumstances of one’s birth is irrelevant. It is what you with gift of life that determines who you are” -Mewtwo Feels like an quote some clone trooper might like as well.
I wonder how many Clones would change after being told all of this. Despite everything, I really see the Clones as pawns with blinders put over their eyes so they see what Palpatine deemed to be ‘enough’, of at least a number of them. Putting aside Disney’s change and shortening of the Clone Wars story with what they did to Season 7 and how they canceled Season 8, I still think Rex, for example, and especially Rex, may have been a Hero. The Clones were probably very easy to lie to. No, a lot of people were easy to lie to, even the Jedi, given what the Clone Wars erupted into and what seceding looked like when you have a military and turn against a government for another. Things would’ve probably been at least a little different if Rex knew that they came to Umbara to bring chains and not to snuff out a dangerous militia.
Clones: "Why are you crying?" The Court: "Because you massacred an entire Nemoidian Grub-Hatchery!" Clones: "Pffff, we don't care... At the end we got a Good Soldiers Medal, because we were just following orders..."
Citizens of the Republic are content that the Clone Troopers are fighting a war for them instead of sending their sons and daughters to join the Grand Army of the Republic.
Loved this video! I would say the only answer is by looking at each individual clone, because soldiers like Fives, Cut, Howzer and even Hevy all have their own amazing personalities that brought them all down very different paths. I would consider them all heroes in their own right even Cut who did risk his own safety to try and take Omega with them.
" Questioning your way of life and your actions is a tricky thing especially when your a clone sir. The more we see, the more we learn and think, slowly some of us become... problematic and the Republic can't have that if it is to keep us their toys and nobody likes a broken toy." CT- 6963 Lieutenant Xander following desertion
2:07: Nice way to put it, the CIS being a Sith psi-op. Also, nice term for master manipulator actions, psi-op... might wanna use that a lot in the rest of my days.
Considering that the whole christophsis incident was canonicly covered up quite comprehensivly, it is save to assume that Slick caught a blaster bolt for his troubles. Especially if you consider that Palpatine did most assuredly not need a treasonous clone undermining the trust the public, and far far more importantly the Jedi, had in the clones.
MrChewie1138, Undoubtedly, they were. The Jedi Order was generally complacent in what was happening around them in the galaxy during the Clone Wars, something which Palpatine, of course, expertly took advantage of to defame and annihilate them in the end.
Mhm, if you ask me neither the republic OR the empire were "good guys" both were just as bad as eachother, only the empire gave a chance for people on the outer rim to get off the hellhole they were on and serve in the military, while the republic didn't (I mean you had the judicial forces, but that wasn't very fun) but the republic had slightly better rights.
@@HinokasArabfan1 well I mean, inhibitor chips make your argument kinda pointless, the chips made sure they had no choice, afterwards is definitely up for debate though
@@wolfeler166 you see, the inhibitor chip is a cheap way for writers to be lazy and say favorite clone "x" does something against his will instead of actually giving a reason for said clone to follow order. but alas. Disney ruined storm troopers for me, ruined luke for the fandom, and ruined the clone grey dynamic. so eh.
@@HinokasArabfan1 I mean, we already knew that the inhibitor chips changed what they thought. It was against their will. We clearly saw that Clones who had their chips removed didn’t really go through with the order. Is it lazy writing? Yes, but it made sense.
i mean they were kinda forced to, though some of them had no gripes against it/actually felt good doing so. rex, for instance, definitely didn't, and even tried resisting it long enough for ahsoka to remove his chip, whereas bacara did it without hesitation or remorse, and likely even wanted to do it before the order was even give. a lot of the ones under the harsher jedi commanders definitely would've complied without the chip ordering them to, as said with the marines/probably the coruscant guard, but more loyal battalions like kenobi's 212th i feel would've disobeyed if they could've
I see very little difference between the Clones and the Droids of the Separatists. Both were created for a singular purpose. Both were essentially forced into a war that wasn't really their own. Both could develop personalities over time. And in the end, both were ultimately expendable. The Clones were not heroes, at all. But they aren't unsympathetic either.
Great Video. What do you think of this As A concept: Darth Plagueis arranged two force sensitive individuals to get married and producted A child-This child was to be use as A weapon for the Sith Order.
A bit off topic here, but there's a clone commander who I believe a great deal of fans don't really know much about. His name was CRC - 09/571 and he was the very first commander to lead the clone army at the first battle of Geonosis alongside master Yoda. While he's only known in Legends, as in Canon he's simply known as the "unidentified clone commander". CRC - 09/571 is still worth mentioning and as far as records go he is the only clone trooper in the GAR to have the rank of "Clone Regimental Commander".
Everyone was a casualty in Palpatine's one-player chess game. Especially the clones. Personally, I tend to cut them more slack, simply because they couldn't refuse the job they were given even if/when they realized how screwed up it was, thanks to both the way they were raised, and the inhibitor chips in every clone. Truly evil actions are committed by those who know exactly what they're doing and have every opportunity to stop. A large majority of them had no real control.
A war hero is a subjective term in any universe. The side that the soldier is fighting for is going to see them as a hero, but the opposite side will see them as a villain.
I know you already have a playlist called "Everything Sith," but I think it'd be interesting to see a playlist named "The Sith Grand Plan" or something along those lines that discusses finer points in Palpatine and Dooku's agenda. Videos like this would be perfect for it, alongside videos such as "Grievous's True Role in the Clone Wars" and "Was Count Dooku Actually Right?". Basically, anything that discusses the subtleties of the Sith Grand Plan that often goes over everyone's heads, both in-universe and out.
Random Coruscanti to Commander Fox: "You Clones are murders and thugs!" Commander Fox looks at Coruscanti. "Pew Pew" Commander Fox: "Good soldiers follow orders."
i think the story of the clones is tragic more than anything. they were created by cold, cruel kaminoans with the express intention of being tools used to commit atrocities. they’re basically child soldiers pushed into a war they barely understand which were literally forced by a chip in their brain to murder potentially close friends. like, can you imagine being a clone when order 66 comes out? some of the jedi were ruthless killers who treated clones as just pawns, but some of them were genuinely empathetic and kind hearted and developed connections with their clones. just look at how rex’s hands shook as he went to shoot ahsoka, that scene gets me so emotional every time i see it
Saying the Clones are heroes is like saying all humans are good. Some Clones like Fox, most of the other Coruscant Guard, and Commander Faie were just scumbags with how blind their loyalty was. The same could be said for some other clones that we did not see. That being said, being a scumbag doesn't equate to evil. As you said Geetsly's, the clones were just human and nothing more. Humans are massively flawed creatures and even those who are generally nice people still make bad mistakes, something I can attest to. Heck, quite a few people nowadays act like toxic brats because they have nothing else better to do, they think they can get away with it, and they have fragile egos that they try to strengthen in unhealthy ways. Even long before I started on the path of a psychology major, I could see how flawed people were and how flawed I was. However, the potential for improvement is what makes me like humans.
They were programmed to obey, even normal humans from our society don't ask themselves "what do I really want?", not to mention the qar in Vietnam, who is the inspiration for this show, and war, who committed atrocities in the name of freedom
And do not forget that by the end of the war the eldest clones were 13 years old, despite looking far older due to genetic acceleration, they were still children. The Republic employed an army of slave child soldiers and used them as cannon fodder
I think a lot of fans are still forgetting the fact (mostly because of what Dave Filoni tried to establish in the Clone Wars series) that the Clones *were never the good guys* to begin with. The Clone army was created for a single purpose and it wasn't to defeat the Separatists (even though that is what Palpatine wanted the Republic to believe), but to *eradicate the Jedi and to help the Sith secure power from within.* The Clones' actions during Order 66 were a *conscious choice,* dictated by their own genetic design to be less independent and more obedient since birth (just as Lama Su explained to Obi-Wan in Ep.2), and not by some inhibitor chips (introduced in the Clone Wars) that tried to excuse in a way what they did by being "brainwashed", portraying them as "good". The Clones were no different from the Droid armies of the CIS, just made from flesh and blood and a little more sentient, but serving the same pawn role in Palpatine's proxy war.
Makes sense. If freely roaming around, most would have just been mercenaries, bodyguards or bounty hunters. They were designed as fighters, and that's all most of them could do, which usually would just mean whatever their commanders said.
My question i have still to this day is that what is the name of the bagpipe track used for the video of the battle of jabbim from the battles that crippled the republic series
This is why I don't like the inhibitor chip arc's impact, however well it was made; it takes away the moral dimension of Order 66. The society that would create a slave army to be unquestioningly obedient was unthinkably evil, and THAT is the revenge of the sith
Yeah that’s exactly what I thought, it just feels kind of like a cheap way to say the clones are good in my opinion, I preferred the moral decision that the clones had to make and the dark reality that the vast majority of them would follow Order 66 regardless of how they might of felt about it.
Fives had some awareness of what he was doing and he knew he wasn't another number to be disposed of he was a person during the Battle of Umbara I don't know if it relates to the video you make but 10 out of 10👍.
@@Commodore22345 I get what u are saying, but still they were raised to be war fighters and had chips in their brains that made it so that they had to follow orders and trust the republic. They were able to make their own decisions, but they were at least somewhat swayed by their own brain which was genetically cod d to have them think a specific way
Tbh i kinda dislike how they made the Clones victims. I much preferred it when they were primary examples of... Good soldiers following orders and the dangers that come with doing so blindly.
Good and bad are subjective things it varies from person to person just like how the republic and separatists viewed themselves as being good. So who gets to decided what is "good or bad".
can you make a video about if the clone wars ended with a real republic victory would the clones be just peacekeeping force like the jedi? guards of vips? or allowed to retire or something?
The clones were never meant to be good only thought to be as since clone wars paints them in that light when they were used against the Jedi and that was their only mission and even after the war their purpose was complete since the Jedi were wiped out or at least a huge chunk of it anyways just sucks they were used as pawns without even realizing it
EXACTLY, this is why the inhibitor chips are stupid! Clones aren't MEANT to be good guys, hell Dave Filoni has such little regard for George Lucas' story that he ACTIVELY resurrects character's WE SEE DIE (Eeth Koth and Maul, all though maul was done well)
I like to think that some clones did recognise their slavery but didn’t care because they still had power and they enjoyed it ~cough~ shock troopers ~cough~.
First, torches and pitch forks, what are we cavemen? Will be coming after you with laser blasters, rocket launchers, and Lightsabers like civilized people. lol. Secondly, much everything to do with war, the subject of whose a hero and whose a villain uring a war is complicated. There are many great Clones out there who I consider heroes during the Clone Wars like Rex, Fives, Echo, Hevy, Hardcase, Jesse, Wolffee, Cody, Waxxer, Boil, the Bad Batch(minus Crosshair), 99 and so on, but there are just as many Clones that Ii see as bad guys during the Clone Wars, Fox, Faie, Bracca, Alpha, most of the Coruscant Guard, and so on, there are also Clones that fall in the middle. Just like the Jedi Order, Republic, and Separatists, the Clones had both good guys and bad guys apart of them. War isn't black and white, it's many shades of grey. The Clone Wars taught me that. And ultimately who you side with depends on who you are. For me, despite all the flaws of the Republic, that you have greatly detailed in many previous videos, I'm still loyal to it because despite the corruption and evil there are still many good people in the Republic fighting for good, noble reasons and trying to create a better future for all, like Obi-Wan, Anakin, Ahsoka, Plo Koon, Padme, R2, and the heroes Clones I mentioned, Bail, and so on. I've seen too much good they've done, despite all the evil too, to fully be disloyal. Also, two side notes, one I'm so happy you mentioned the Clones and Jedi saving the Togura slaves in Season 4, I always loved that story, and the heroics on display by Jedi, Clones, and Republic Officers is one of the major examples that keeps me loyal to the Republic, as I've mentioned in some previous comments on other videos of yours. Two, I still think the Umbara's kind of had that invasion coming, their session meant Kashyyyk was now completely surrounded by Separatist plants and was in danger of being attacked and the Wookies enslaved, I love the Wookies their my friends so if they're put in danger because of Umbara, then Umbara is going down.
Look, I’ll concede that if you wanted to divide the clone army by morals, there would be three camps. Evil Imperials, middle Clones, and heroic Republic. The first and third categories would have the smallest amount of clone troopers while the majority would be in the middle category. And of course being a soldier doesn’t automatically make you a hero. However this seems more of a Legends interpretation which in my mind makes the clone troopers less sympathetic. With guys like Geetsly, they basically act like most clones went unchanged during their time in the GAR, that most of them still only believed in what they were taught. That seems like a hard thing to expect when they’ve been fighting with the Jedi for three whole years. I argue that the Jedi made the clone troopers more moral people as a whole. Guys like Rex and the Bad Batch are more extreme cases thanks to either the people they served with or genetic modifications they had at birth, but to believe that the Jedi had little effect on the personalities of most clone troopers seems a little ridiculous. While the Republic was turning into an Empire, it was still a democracy for most of the Clone Wars and they were lead by the Jedi. I would expect that their rate of war crimes was far lower than the Separatists and the Imperials. Now to be fair, the effect the Jedi had mostly addressed nothing about following orders and disobeying them like you would see in a normal army serving a democracy. Still, I would say that on the moral spectrum, most clones would be leaning towards good guys and heroes. This may be an idealistic perspective, but usually when it comes to regular people, they do want good things to happen in the world, not just to them. The only thing they lack is the belief and will to execute this. They require inspiration to rise up and that is how I view most of the clone troopers. Perhaps they aren’t heroic, but I argue they had the capacity to with the right leadership and guidance. The Jedi Order was close, but just couldn’t reach it thanks to Order 66 and their teachings, which made them preserve clone lives but never forge proper bonds, keeping a cold distance from them. Ironically I would say clone troopers would be well suited to serve in the Rebel Alliance. With how they follow orders so well, perhaps too well, they would easily be under the right leadership similar to the Jedi who would care about clones and inspire them to be individuals. However Rebel leaders such as Luke, Leia, and Hera would then inspire clone troopers to do more. They would turn several clones to become like Captain Rex, perhaps even millions of them. They did it to the galaxy during the Galactic Civil War and they could do it for the clones. In fact, I argue that if the Rebel Alliance was officially founded and announced itself during the first five years of the Empire’s rule, many clones would join up. Many after being laid off by the Empire sat around and did nothing because they feel into depression over the Jedi and how despite their service, nobody gave a damn about them. They also saw no real alternative besides the Empire and their homeworld was destroyed. Ironically, clone troopers would be the perfect people to join the Alliance. They would have every reason to and would have the best skill set to fight the Imperials. So I argue that every clone trooper thanks to the influence of the Jedi, at least in Canon, easily had the capacity to be heroic. All they were missing was the right leadership.
Not related to the video but was watching the end of clone wars season 4 and wondered if there is a video about whether or not the snake on the junk planet where Maul was found, deceived Maul and caused him to descend into madness like the state he was found when Savage found him. Or was the madness caused out of his pure hatred and pain towards Kenobi.
And you have to remember that during the birth of the empire the clone army turned on the Jedi throughout the galaxy and executed the Jedi on every single planets across the galaxy
I would call them heroes and villains. They did many terrible things and served many terrible causes, but they also bought time for many to have better lives than under the Separatists before the establishment of the Empire
There were never any true good guys during the Clone Wars. Even the Jedi took part in doing terrible things to fight a war to protect what they thought was galactic civilization.
I just wish our point of view of the factions could be better like... it's generally known that clones are the good guys and droids are the pathetic bad guys, but the thing is, its the other way around and its far more complicated, I don't like that the viewer's sympathies are directed solely towards the clones because they're human when in reality the clones comitted loads of war crimes and were blind to the real politics of the war. You should do a video that basically explains the politics of the war and make me not love the clones so much even though they're really cool.
I agree but palpatine was also behind the CIS, everyone were pawns to palpatine. No side was hero’s, that’s all their was some good ppl on the Republic and good ppl in the separatist, also alil bad on both sides as well
clone wars 2003 and dark horse republic comics fit well into each other because of the clone wars Multimedia project before the dark times before TCW retcons
I disagree, I think the clones were heroes, by and large. Despite their position, many had the courage to fight and sacrifice themselves for each other or what they believed in. Despite the obvious moral pitfalls the war presented them with, many of them were still the right kind of men. They were filled with the best traits, the stuff heroes are made of. Captain Rex is certainly a hero, but you could argue others aren't. At the end of the day they were tragic heroes, their arc sees them being forced to do things that most of the fleshed out character clones would never say is right.
![The BRUTAL Training Camps of the Empire Explained [There is no Failure, Only Death!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XnS3Oi3raD4/mqdefault.jpg)
There were amazing clones we love, there were generic clones, and there were awful we despise. We can’t have one without.
Truthfully, the bad clones just make the good clones look even better.
Exactly. Just like with the Jedi Order, the Republic, and the Separatists, there were good guys and bad guys in all three groups just like the Clones, for every great Jedi or Clone like Obi-Wan, Anakin, Ahsoka, Plo Koon, Rex, Wolffee, Cody, and so on, there are terrible evil dick ones that make us like the good ones all the more, like your Pong Krells, Ki-Aid-Mundi, Fox, Faie and so on.
Well, considering the fact that clones were made to have as little empathy towards most things (but not to the point where they became psychos) as possible, along with the fact that they were taught only how to kill and be soldiers, it's not exactly surprising that few clones would attempt to see the bigger picture, with even fewer realizing what kind of horrible lives they were living or what they were actually living and fighting for. They were pretty much the CIS's droid army in flesh, just with some more sentience and emotions at the end of the day, no matter how hard we try to justify it.
Exactly, you just described the clones perfectly, I feel like most fans don’t really understand this anymore.
Yep, that's why I love the clones btw, it's such a dark plot
Pretty much.
Aye, indeed. That's what makes the Clone Wars so incredible. It's not the usual good versus evil theme of Star Wars, but instead it's gray. Just like in the Revenge of the Sith Opening Crawl: "There are Heroes on both sides", while both sides also committed War Crimes, Genocides and Attrocities.
@@Colonel-Cornelius-CornJulio yeah
I wish this would be explored more, people are to used to Rex and Wolffe, they don’t realize that most clones aren’t like them, that the majority of them would follow orders without question, no matter how wrong it may be, because it’s all they know how to do, a separatist show would be cool, to actually see the separatists’s point of view and see the horrible things the clones and republic are capable of.
I honestly despise the inhibitor chips for this reason, around 90% of clones would of gunned down the jedi with no problems if palpatine asked them to WITHOUT any "control chip", I'm fine with humanizing the clones....but introducing control chips to make it seem like the clones are the "good guys" and they only did order 66 because of "Mind control" is just BS, only the more independent clones would need a chip like Commando's, Alpha ARCs and the 6 Null ARCs
@@weegee_darthno4045 Nothing BS about the concept. Palpatine has always been all about total control & being shit paranoid about everything. He couldn't have schemed like he did otherwise, & people like that DON'T like their subordinates even second guessing their orders, especially not one as vital as gunning down the Jedi they're with on the spot. Palpatine didn't just want the Jedi to die, he wanted them dead within MINUTES after the order is given. No amount of conditioning would've allowed most, if not all of the clones, to do exactly that. Despite the fact that clones being essentially bred as machines in the flesh, they're still biologically human after all. Put it this way, if you're ordered to kill your colleague whom you're good friends with, doing it AT YOUR OWN PACE within a set timeframe wouldn't have been a problem if you're blindly loyal to your superiors, yet i doubt you'd be able to put a bullet in his head while you two are having lunch when you got your order.
2:28 Palpatine: "I will not let this Republic, which has stood for thousands of years, be split in two!"
Also Palpatine: *had split the Republic into two with the creation of the CIS through Dooku as part of his long-term master plan to form the Galactic Empire*
Palpatine: I play both sides so I always come out on top.
they were all fighting for the same ultimate goal so he technically wasn't lying lol
"When raised to follow orders and to die for a Republic and nothing else, right and wrong is nothing but a detrimental concept that impedes ones ability to fulfill ones purpose and complete their objective."
Alpha- 73 Lieutenant Glaive
In war everyone has their hero’s, Just depends on what side you’re on
except for the fact that each side was fighting against their self interest
That’s actually an extremely true and interesting statement. What could be a war criminal to some, to others they could be a war hero.
Heroes*
@@MandoMTL if you knew what he was talking about there was no reason to correct him. The simple misspelling did not make the sentence ineligible so there was no reason to comment “heroes”.
Commander Cody as a Hero forever.
It all depends on your point of view. This one, Warhammer 40K got right - there are no good guys in war. Any war. I do not love the Clones because they are heroes (although I consider some few of them as such), but because they have such great character arcs and are simply portrayed as human - being bred in a laboratory or not.
Individuals are heroes, not collectives.
“The circumstances of one’s birth is irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are” -Mewtwo
Barely and "individuals" resisted order 66 😄 good soldiers follow orders 👍
"I will not be undermined by creatures bred in some laboratory!"
They also have thee best looking armor in Star Wars
We fought for what we thought was right, but we ended up being pawns of everyone we were taught to trust. I found that out the hard way....
Yeah true
That hit harder than the blaster bolt that ended up in your torso
In other words you were betrayed by your leaders.
Next time, please do a video when the Battle Droids are the good guys. And I mean the moments that they were actually fighting for something righteous for once instead of doing whatever the likes of the Hutt slimes such as Gunray and Tambor told them to do. Please! Pretty please! If there are good ones among the clones like Rex, some Battle Droids may have to!
They were soldiers.
Soldiers are neither heroes nor villains.
They are soldiers.
They do what soldiers do (kill, kill, kill, kill, kill and kill).
Depending upon the side of your faction, they are either villains or they are heroes.
-
Just ask the Jedi (after order 66 activated). The clones were "bad guys". During the Clone wars, they were heroes and the Jedi considered them heroes.
Yep, all Soldier's need to do are follow order's and kill, that's what most clones would do without chips, if order 66 came down, if the supreme chancellor told them the jedi are treasonous, 90% of clones would follow that order even without the chip...WITHOUT QUESTION, some would question it but do it either way (i.e bly) and some would outright refuse (Ion team)
@@weegee_darthno4045 I don't think that's even remotely true. The equivalent would be if the president of a modern nation ordered their army to kill high ranking generals en masse. With the exception that in addition to these being high ranking generals, they also served alongside the soldier and other officers regularly, meaning they were known well by the men. This would undoubtedly lead to conflict - every time someone attempts a military coup there are people on both sides. Clones without chips would end up fighting each other before they took on the Jedi, and the Jedi would have been able to use that to swing the battles and at least escape.
@@CJLloyd Ok, how bout you ask the dozen's of clones who executed it in legends PRE-2013 (the reason was they were indoctrinated from birth to follow the 150 contingency order's without question)
Good soldiers follow orders
“The circumstances of one’s birth is irrelevant. It is what you with gift of life that determines who you are” -Mewtwo
Feels like an quote some clone trooper might like as well.
Such an amazing quote
For every Rex & Fives, there’s a fox & Faie. So it’s kinda hard to say imo.
Don't forget Waxer
@@zero312 dunno how I could forget him. Wish TCW did more with him during the series
imo there are far more fox's and faie's then fives' and rex's.
@@weegee_darthno4045 But how many Alpha-17s and Fordos are there? 🤔
@@zero312 There are 100 Alpha ARCs, a few of em deserted (Sull and Spar f.e) and quite a few other's died.
6:46 Somewhere, a Homeless ex-501st Legion Clone Trooper is asking for any spare change from civilians passing by to get a warm meal.
I wonder how many Clones would change after being told all of this. Despite everything, I really see the Clones as pawns with blinders put over their eyes so they see what Palpatine deemed to be ‘enough’, of at least a number of them. Putting aside Disney’s change and shortening of the Clone Wars story with what they did to Season 7 and how they canceled Season 8, I still think Rex, for example, and especially Rex, may have been a Hero. The Clones were probably very easy to lie to. No, a lot of people were easy to lie to, even the Jedi, given what the Clone Wars erupted into and what seceding looked like when you have a military and turn against a government for another. Things would’ve probably been at least a little different if Rex knew that they came to Umbara to bring chains and not to snuff out a dangerous militia.
Clones: "Why are you crying?"
The Court: "Because you massacred an entire Nemoidian Grub-Hatchery!"
Clones: "Pffff, we don't care... At the end we got a Good Soldiers Medal, because we were just following orders..."
99, Hevy, Cutup & Fives will always be heroes in our hearts
In war, Heroes can easily become the villains.
Citizens of the Republic are content that the Clone Troopers are fighting a war for them instead of sending their sons and daughters to join the Grand Army of the Republic.
This
Ironically it was the CIS that thought their ‘production’ was inhumane.
maybe rich coreworld citizens but poor republic citizens who lost everything due to seperatist scum would be volunteers for the GAR
Geetsly’s: We’re the clones really the heroes?
Me: YES! They just did a few pro gamer moves…
Loved this video! I would say the only answer is by looking at each individual clone, because soldiers like Fives, Cut, Howzer and even Hevy all have their own amazing personalities that brought them all down very different paths. I would consider them all heroes in their own right even Cut who did risk his own safety to try and take Omega with them.
" Questioning your way of life and your actions is a tricky thing especially when your a clone sir. The more we see, the more we learn and think, slowly some of us become... problematic and the Republic can't have that if it is to keep us their toys and nobody likes a broken toy."
CT- 6963 Lieutenant Xander following desertion
You can say that again.
2:07: Nice way to put it, the CIS being a Sith psi-op. Also, nice term for master manipulator actions, psi-op... might wanna use that a lot in the rest of my days.
*thumbnail*
Din Djarin after seeing Grogu denied his treat: "It's Mandalorian Time!"
0:32 Droid: "Reinforcements are here! Open up!"
Hevy: "Didn't say Please!" *open fire*
Fun fact: If the sith didn’t ally with the Separtists, the Separtists would have been painted as the good guys.
I would have asked (what about general grievous) but he wouldn't have joined the separatist if it weren't for the sith.
@@CloneScavengerVulpin8389 yup
Yes, but actually no@@CloneScavengerVulpin8389
@@forkliftcertifiedguy7 are you saying he would join the separatists for different reasons?
@@forkliftcertifiedguy7 I could be misinterpreting.
That reminds me, anyone else wonder what happened to Slick and Dogma? Maybe they could show up in bad batch?
Considering that the whole christophsis incident was canonicly covered up quite comprehensivly, it is save to assume that Slick caught a blaster bolt for his troubles.
Especially if you consider that Palpatine did most assuredly not need a treasonous clone undermining the trust the public, and far far more importantly the Jedi, had in the clones.
Weren't the Jedi as guilty of the military abuses of the Republic as the clones, though?
MrChewie1138, Undoubtedly, they were. The Jedi Order was generally complacent in what was happening around them in the galaxy during the Clone Wars, something which Palpatine, of course, expertly took advantage of to defame and annihilate them in the end.
Mhm, if you ask me neither the republic OR the empire were "good guys" both were just as bad as eachother, only the empire gave a chance for people on the outer rim to get off the hellhole they were on and serve in the military, while the republic didn't (I mean you had the judicial forces, but that wasn't very fun) but the republic had slightly better rights.
@@Commodore22345 Yep
3:02 When you brought plenty of snacks to the classroom:
They were the best and the only time they did something terribly wrong (order 66) was against what they wanted to do
were they? or were they following orders? if i recall correctly, you have absolutely zero say in orders from the higher ups.
@@HinokasArabfan1 well I mean, inhibitor chips make your argument kinda pointless, the chips made sure they had no choice, afterwards is definitely up for debate though
@@wolfeler166 you see, the inhibitor chip is a cheap way for writers to be lazy and say favorite clone "x" does something against his will instead of actually giving a reason for said clone to follow order. but alas. Disney ruined storm troopers for me, ruined luke for the fandom, and ruined the clone grey dynamic. so eh.
@@HinokasArabfan1 I mean, we already knew that the inhibitor chips changed what they thought. It was against their will. We clearly saw that Clones who had their chips removed didn’t really go through with the order. Is it lazy writing? Yes, but it made sense.
i mean they were kinda forced to, though some of them had no gripes against it/actually felt good doing so. rex, for instance, definitely didn't, and even tried resisting it long enough for ahsoka to remove his chip, whereas bacara did it without hesitation or remorse, and likely even wanted to do it before the order was even give. a lot of the ones under the harsher jedi commanders definitely would've complied without the chip ordering them to, as said with the marines/probably the coruscant guard, but more loyal battalions like kenobi's 212th i feel would've disobeyed if they could've
I see very little difference between the Clones and the Droids of the Separatists. Both were created for a singular purpose. Both were essentially forced into a war that wasn't really their own. Both could develop personalities over time. And in the end, both were ultimately expendable. The Clones were not heroes, at all. But they aren't unsympathetic either.
9:21 Another new Comment of the Week and I love it. Keep it up.
This video came out a minute ago how did u watch all of it
Some of them were such as the main characters of the clone wars but there were also some bad ones (fox, etc)
The bad ones had their chops turned on early or were just jerks.
Great Video. What do you think of this As A concept:
Darth Plagueis arranged two force sensitive individuals to get married and producted A child-This child was to be use as A weapon for the Sith Order.
Thanks for speaking some truth most of my experiences were decent but theirs were some less than pleasant ones May the force be with you always
Clone slander will not be tolerated.
A bit off topic here, but there's a clone commander who I believe a great deal of fans don't really know much about. His name was CRC - 09/571 and he was the very first commander to lead the clone army at the first battle of Geonosis alongside master Yoda. While he's only known in Legends, as in Canon he's simply known as the "unidentified clone commander". CRC - 09/571 is still worth mentioning and as far as records go he is the only clone trooper in the GAR to have the rank of "Clone Regimental Commander".
Commander Cody was alway be Star Wars Hero, he become more heroic than Rex and very similar to Din Djarin in Mando.
He was a good bro, shame what happened to him after the order.
Sometimes I wish the sequels had the First Order bring back clone troopers.
I now consider the image of Coruscant Guard petting Grogu canon.
This is Canon for me! I hope we see more stuff like this in the future!
Everyone was a casualty in Palpatine's one-player chess game.
Especially the clones.
Personally, I tend to cut them more slack, simply because they couldn't refuse the job they were given even if/when they realized how screwed up it was, thanks to both the way they were raised, and the inhibitor chips in every clone.
Truly evil actions are committed by those who know exactly what they're doing and have every opportunity to stop.
A large majority of them had no real control.
“She promised me something you wouldn’t understand! Freedom!”
-Slick
A war hero is a subjective term in any universe. The side that the soldier is fighting for is going to see them as a hero, but the opposite side will see them as a villain.
Clone Arc Trooper Fives is the most heroic clone in my opinion. This is why he is my favourite clone.
They were the tragic heroes during the Clone Wars.
It all depends on which side of the line you are standing on because in the clone wars there were no good guys
Filoni really leaned hard into no matter how just a cause no one in war is innocent.
he made a buttload of excuses for his OCs though...
I know you already have a playlist called "Everything Sith," but I think it'd be interesting to see a playlist named "The Sith Grand Plan" or something along those lines that discusses finer points in Palpatine and Dooku's agenda. Videos like this would be perfect for it, alongside videos such as "Grievous's True Role in the Clone Wars" and "Was Count Dooku Actually Right?". Basically, anything that discusses the subtleties of the Sith Grand Plan that often goes over everyone's heads, both in-universe and out.
I mean some of us are heroes and others are not.
I love you videos ❤️
Random Coruscanti to Commander Fox: "You Clones are murders and thugs!"
Commander Fox looks at Coruscanti.
"Pew Pew"
Commander Fox: "Good soldiers follow orders."
Was anyone in the Clone Wars heroes?
Depends on perspective, they were overall good tools but for an evil man so 🤷🏽
i think the story of the clones is tragic more than anything. they were created by cold, cruel kaminoans with the express intention of being tools used to commit atrocities. they’re basically child soldiers pushed into a war they barely understand which were literally forced by a chip in their brain to murder potentially close friends. like, can you imagine being a clone when order 66 comes out? some of the jedi were ruthless killers who treated clones as just pawns, but some of them were genuinely empathetic and kind hearted and developed connections with their clones. just look at how rex’s hands shook as he went to shoot ahsoka, that scene gets me so emotional every time i see it
Geetslys one video: “clones are slaves” geetslys the next video: “clones were free thinking enforcers evil regimes”
Saying the Clones are heroes is like saying all humans are good. Some Clones like Fox, most of the other Coruscant Guard, and Commander Faie were just scumbags with how blind their loyalty was. The same could be said for some other clones that we did not see. That being said, being a scumbag doesn't equate to evil. As you said Geetsly's, the clones were just human and nothing more. Humans are massively flawed creatures and even those who are generally nice people still make bad mistakes, something I can attest to. Heck, quite a few people nowadays act like toxic brats because they have nothing else better to do, they think they can get away with it, and they have fragile egos that they try to strengthen in unhealthy ways. Even long before I started on the path of a psychology major, I could see how flawed people were and how flawed I was. However, the potential for improvement is what makes me like humans.
If there’s one thing the Clones of the GAR and Battle Droids and freedom fighters of the CIS had in common, its that they were both pawns of the Sith.
They were programmed to obey, even normal humans from our society don't ask themselves "what do I really want?", not to mention the qar in Vietnam, who is the inspiration for this show, and war, who committed atrocities in the name of freedom
And do not forget that by the end of the war the eldest clones were 13 years old, despite looking far older due to genetic acceleration, they were still children. The Republic employed an army of slave child soldiers and used them as cannon fodder
I think a lot of fans are still forgetting the fact (mostly because of what Dave Filoni tried to establish in the Clone Wars series) that the Clones *were never the good guys* to begin with. The Clone army was created for a single purpose and it wasn't to defeat the Separatists (even though that is what Palpatine wanted the Republic to believe), but to *eradicate the Jedi and to help the Sith secure power from within.* The Clones' actions during Order 66 were a *conscious choice,* dictated by their own genetic design to be less independent and more obedient since birth (just as Lama Su explained to Obi-Wan in Ep.2), and not by some inhibitor chips (introduced in the Clone Wars) that tried to excuse in a way what they did by being "brainwashed", portraying them as "good". The Clones were no different from the Droid armies of the CIS, just made from flesh and blood and a little more sentient, but serving the same pawn role in Palpatine's proxy war.
Makes sense. If freely roaming around, most would have just been mercenaries, bodyguards or bounty hunters. They were designed as fighters, and that's all most of them could do, which usually would just mean whatever their commanders said.
In war being a hero or a villain is just a mattering of timing
My question i have still to this day is that what is the name of the bagpipe track used for the video of the battle of jabbim from the battles that crippled the republic series
This is why I don't like the inhibitor chip arc's impact, however well it was made; it takes away the moral dimension of Order 66. The society that would create a slave army to be unquestioningly obedient was unthinkably evil, and THAT is the revenge of the sith
Yeah that’s exactly what I thought, it just feels kind of like a cheap way to say the clones are good in my opinion, I preferred the moral decision that the clones had to make and the dark reality that the vast majority of them would follow Order 66 regardless of how they might of felt about it.
Good soldiers follow orders
These were literally child soldiers 😭😭😭
Unfortunately true
My brain: are you sleeping?
Me: Yes now shut up
My brain: Echo never learned that fives died
The Senate is the true hero.
Fives had some awareness of what he was doing and he knew he wasn't another number to be disposed of he was a person during the Battle of Umbara I don't know if it relates to the video you make but 10 out of 10👍.
plus three clones for sure in Rebels prove their noble not to mention the Brave stand Clone Captain Howzer took
What the clones did was wrong but it wasn’t their fault this is how they were bred
@@Commodore22345 I get what u are saying, but still they were raised to be war fighters and had chips in their brains that made it so that they had to follow orders and trust the republic. They were able to make their own decisions, but they were at least somewhat swayed by their own brain which was genetically cod d to have them think a specific way
Tbh i kinda dislike how they made the Clones victims. I much preferred it when they were primary examples of... Good soldiers following orders and the dangers that come with doing so blindly.
Good and bad are subjective things it varies from person to person just like how the republic and separatists viewed themselves as being good. So who gets to decided what is "good or bad".
Feel like this issue is a matter of perspective
Idk if they were heroes but they definitely lived long enough to become the villains.
can you make a video about if the clone wars ended with a real republic victory would the clones be just peacekeeping force like the jedi?
guards of vips?
or allowed to retire or something?
The clones were never meant to be good only thought to be as since clone wars paints them in that light when they were used against the Jedi and that was their only mission and even after the war their purpose was complete since the Jedi were wiped out or at least a huge chunk of it anyways just sucks they were used as pawns without even realizing it
EXACTLY, this is why the inhibitor chips are stupid! Clones aren't MEANT to be good guys, hell Dave Filoni has such little regard for George Lucas' story that he ACTIVELY resurrects character's WE SEE DIE (Eeth Koth and Maul, all though maul was done well)
Well the truth is the truth no matter how bad it hurts. Especially when you look at it from a logical point of view.
Idk maybe cause they *by far* have thee coolest looking Armor?
Order 66 & 37 was enough to taint their reputation.
I like to think that some clones did recognise their slavery but didn’t care because they still had power and they enjoyed it ~cough~ shock troopers ~cough~.
First, torches and pitch forks, what are we cavemen? Will be coming after you with laser blasters, rocket launchers, and Lightsabers like civilized people. lol.
Secondly, much everything to do with war, the subject of whose a hero and whose a villain uring a war is complicated. There are many great Clones out there who I consider heroes during the Clone Wars like Rex, Fives, Echo, Hevy, Hardcase, Jesse, Wolffee, Cody, Waxxer, Boil, the Bad Batch(minus Crosshair), 99 and so on, but there are just as many Clones that Ii see as bad guys during the Clone Wars, Fox, Faie, Bracca, Alpha, most of the Coruscant Guard, and so on, there are also Clones that fall in the middle. Just like the Jedi Order, Republic, and Separatists, the Clones had both good guys and bad guys apart of them. War isn't black and white, it's many shades of grey. The Clone Wars taught me that. And ultimately who you side with depends on who you are. For me, despite all the flaws of the Republic, that you have greatly detailed in many previous videos, I'm still loyal to it because despite the corruption and evil there are still many good people in the Republic fighting for good, noble reasons and trying to create a better future for all, like Obi-Wan, Anakin, Ahsoka, Plo Koon, Padme, R2, and the heroes Clones I mentioned, Bail, and so on. I've seen too much good they've done, despite all the evil too, to fully be disloyal.
Also, two side notes, one I'm so happy you mentioned the Clones and Jedi saving the Togura slaves in Season 4, I always loved that story, and the heroics on display by Jedi, Clones, and Republic Officers is one of the major examples that keeps me loyal to the Republic, as I've mentioned in some previous comments on other videos of yours. Two, I still think the Umbara's kind of had that invasion coming, their session meant Kashyyyk was now completely surrounded by Separatist plants and was in danger of being attacked and the Wookies enslaved, I love the Wookies their my friends so if they're put in danger because of Umbara, then Umbara is going down.
The Clones will always be Heroes no matter what they become.
Look, I’ll concede that if you wanted to divide the clone army by morals, there would be three camps. Evil Imperials, middle Clones, and heroic Republic. The first and third categories would have the smallest amount of clone troopers while the majority would be in the middle category. And of course being a soldier doesn’t automatically make you a hero. However this seems more of a Legends interpretation which in my mind makes the clone troopers less sympathetic. With guys like Geetsly, they basically act like most clones went unchanged during their time in the GAR, that most of them still only believed in what they were taught. That seems like a hard thing to expect when they’ve been fighting with the Jedi for three whole years. I argue that the Jedi made the clone troopers more moral people as a whole. Guys like Rex and the Bad Batch are more extreme cases thanks to either the people they served with or genetic modifications they had at birth, but to believe that the Jedi had little effect on the personalities of most clone troopers seems a little ridiculous. While the Republic was turning into an Empire, it was still a democracy for most of the Clone Wars and they were lead by the Jedi. I would expect that their rate of war crimes was far lower than the Separatists and the Imperials. Now to be fair, the effect the Jedi had mostly addressed nothing about following orders and disobeying them like you would see in a normal army serving a democracy. Still, I would say that on the moral spectrum, most clones would be leaning towards good guys and heroes. This may be an idealistic perspective, but usually when it comes to regular people, they do want good things to happen in the world, not just to them. The only thing they lack is the belief and will to execute this. They require inspiration to rise up and that is how I view most of the clone troopers. Perhaps they aren’t heroic, but I argue they had the capacity to with the right leadership and guidance. The Jedi Order was close, but just couldn’t reach it thanks to Order 66 and their teachings, which made them preserve clone lives but never forge proper bonds, keeping a cold distance from them. Ironically I would say clone troopers would be well suited to serve in the Rebel Alliance. With how they follow orders so well, perhaps too well, they would easily be under the right leadership similar to the Jedi who would care about clones and inspire them to be individuals. However Rebel leaders such as Luke, Leia, and Hera would then inspire clone troopers to do more. They would turn several clones to become like Captain Rex, perhaps even millions of them. They did it to the galaxy during the Galactic Civil War and they could do it for the clones. In fact, I argue that if the Rebel Alliance was officially founded and announced itself during the first five years of the Empire’s rule, many clones would join up. Many after being laid off by the Empire sat around and did nothing because they feel into depression over the Jedi and how despite their service, nobody gave a damn about them. They also saw no real alternative besides the Empire and their homeworld was destroyed. Ironically, clone troopers would be the perfect people to join the Alliance. They would have every reason to and would have the best skill set to fight the Imperials. So I argue that every clone trooper thanks to the influence of the Jedi, at least in Canon, easily had the capacity to be heroic. All they were missing was the right leadership.
Not related to the video but was watching the end of clone wars season 4 and wondered if there is a video about whether or not the snake on the junk planet where Maul was found, deceived Maul and caused him to descend into madness like the state he was found when Savage found him. Or was the madness caused out of his pure hatred and pain towards Kenobi.
And you have to remember that during the birth of the empire the clone army turned on the Jedi throughout the galaxy and executed the Jedi on every single planets across the galaxy
I think it's because they were all ultimately pawns despite their passion, conviction, and sense of honor that people sympathize with them.
"Just following orders is an unacceptable excuse, especially for war crimes."
Germany in World War 2 be like:
I would call them heroes and villains. They did many terrible things and served many terrible causes, but they also bought time for many to have better lives than under the Separatists before the establishment of the Empire
If the executed rebels they were definitely the good guys
There were never any true good guys during the Clone Wars. Even the Jedi took part in doing terrible things to fight a war to protect what they thought was galactic civilization.
I just wish our point of view of the factions could be better like... it's generally known that clones are the good guys and droids are the pathetic bad guys, but the thing is, its the other way around and its far more complicated, I don't like that the viewer's sympathies are directed solely towards the clones because they're human when in reality the clones comitted loads of war crimes and were blind to the real politics of the war. You should do a video that basically explains the politics of the war and make me not love the clones so much even though they're really cool.
Well clones like any other soldier they are taught to follow orders otherwise they can be seen as a traitors and could be charged for that.
Why is there a at-at in the background at 3:55
I agree but palpatine was also behind the CIS, everyone were pawns to palpatine. No side was hero’s, that’s all their was some good ppl on the Republic and good ppl in the separatist, also alil bad on both sides as well
Simply yes!
Childhood ruined. 😢 it’s sad that he’s right.
Clones were absolute chads. I cared more for the regs than for any Jedi in the whole series 😂
Clone wars 2003 show: No I want the real clone wars
Clone wars 2008-2020: No I want the real clone wars
Clone wars legends alpha 17 comic: Perfection
clone wars 2003 and dark horse republic comics fit well into each other because of the clone wars Multimedia project before the dark times before TCW retcons
I like to point out the clones were literally bred to be soldiers
I disagree, I think the clones were heroes, by and large. Despite their position, many had the courage to fight and sacrifice themselves for each other or what they believed in. Despite the obvious moral pitfalls the war presented them with, many of them were still the right kind of men. They were filled with the best traits, the stuff heroes are made of. Captain Rex is certainly a hero, but you could argue others aren't. At the end of the day they were tragic heroes, their arc sees them being forced to do things that most of the fleshed out character clones would never say is right.