One thing to consider: the Beach defunct waterpark. If a giant major player moves in and buys KI, they could buy that in addition to the undeveloped land KI already had, and dramatically expand into a regional multi-day park with park owned hotels like Disney. But SF would have to be dramatically failing to sell KI, even as a package deal.
There is no chance KI is sold, It's the 3rd biggest producer of the Cedar Fair Legacy parks and it is the 3rd biggest producer in the combined chain. It's far ahead of any SF legacy park..ie.. Magic Mountain and Great Adventure, the 2 biggest producer pf SF legacy parks. Also, it makes no sense for them to bring in a competitor just 3 hours from Cedar Point, that's not in their chain, especially a Herschend or United Parks that would pump a ton of money in the park, forcing them to pump more money than they already do into Cedar Point Cedar Point and Kings Island work synergistic in selling the old Platinum product and now the all park passport to people in Ohio, Northern Ky and southern Michigan
Ppl have been saying the economy is going to crash for years and it hasn’t happened. Everything is pointing to a soft landing and a Fed rate cut so yeah not sure where those particular takes are coming from. So yeah I’m gonna say a KI sale isn’t in the cards for SF. Also, I’d hate losing Peanuts in the kids area so a sale sounds absolutely awful
Exactly, people like you and me follow financials, the markets, etc... People hear something from years ago and they keep repeating it, even as data points change.
"Always" is too long. Who knows how companies change over time. But if SF is looking to sell off I think KI is just about the last. So much potential and so much room for expansion. CP for example is locked size wise and is not ideally located to be anything but a local park. You can't open in November/December and are limited in expanding Haunt. But yea - KI is the perfect target for a group looking to expand (neither United or Herschend are in any position to do that or need to now).
Reminds me a bit of when airlines merge. Cleveland was a hub for Continental, Chicago and Newark were a hub for United, when the two airlines merged into United, Cleveland was out as a hub because of the other two close hubs for United. Look for parks clustered near each other to be ones to be sold. Also add in length of season.
When the 2008 recession occurred there was no thought of them selling KI or any major park. Actually, if you know the financials Cedar Fair weathered the 2008 crash better than any other regional operator by far. That was despite the fact they had the bad timing of taking on the 1.4B debt to acquire the Paramount parks just 2 years before an economic downturn. If anything is sold just b/c they don't as many parks or b/c of economic downturn, it would 1 or several of the smaller parks. You don't sell any of f your most valuable assets with the growth now and potential to grow more.
In my opinion, no other park has a brighter future than Kings Island! They literally have 300 more acres that they can build on and add to the park! I can't think of another park with the kind of potential that Kings Island has! With the land they have available, they literally have the space to build the best park in the world and it wouldn't even be close!
My interest is peaked. What type of ride would the Big Red Machine be? They already have a 200 and 300 foot coaster. Do they play on the word "machine" and go with a something with a lot of moving parts like a large Mack Extreme Spinner or an S&S Fourth Dimension Coaster, or perhaps in a few years if there is legitimate proof of concept a large S&S Axis Coaster. Or perhaps, they just play on the competitiveness that is pro sports and take the North American inversion record from Steel Curtain. That would tie in nice with an inversion focused ride on the Vortex plot of land and the entrance off the most "Cincinnati" part of the park in Coney Mall. it would have to be a coasters though, right?
Dealing with the hypothetical, if FUN needed to sell off for a cash flow infusion would be sold to Hershend or Sea World. If anything this is the 5 company to own KI in the last 52 years and the park has a history of being acquired.
While they would never sell to United Parks, the seasonal aspect is moot. United wanted to buy Cedar Fair a few years back and all of their parks are seasonal except Knotts. They would only sell small disposable parks to United Parks b/c they don't want the competition. United Parks financials are currently great, they are printing cash and literally are buying back stock at a ridiculous rate b/c they have nothing to do with their cash. They wanted to acquire parks, but don't have any appealing options.They couldn't get cedar Fair and now with the merger they couldn't get SF. FYI, given SF poor results for years, United Parks was eyeing them and that's part of the reason Cedar Fair was interested in the merger, besides regional diversity. They didn't want United Parks with all their cash to get the better SF parks b/c they would actually put the money into them unlike SF management to make them much better
I don't know if Kings Island will always be Six Flags, but I believe it will always be with the family of parks it has been for the last 20 years! I think what has happened will remain for a long time, other than maybe discontinuing to manage the parks Six Flags doesn't actually own. That might happen, but the way it is now, is how it will remain probably for the remainder of our lives anyway. Now, as far as The Beast book, RL Stein is from Columbus and yes a Kings Island fan. I really liked the first one, even though it wasn't true that there was a park there in 1933. The second book was terrible. He should not have written that one!
You do realize SF Great America is 5 hours from Kings Island. 90% of regional theme park visitors are within 100 miles of the park they go to. Great America changes noting KI. Again, they would not want a big operator like Herschend and United competing in the over lap markets with Cedar Point. Both of those companies would pump large Capex into KI, forcing them to increase the Capex more at Cedar Point.
With Universal / Comcast starting to build smaller reginal theme parks, I would think maybe Universal or even maybe Disney would entertain purchasing a quality reginal park.
i don't believe they'll ever sell KI. CF bought the parks from Paramount to get KI so they never have to compete with KI again. They won the war by buying the competition between CP and KI.
In all likelyhood, they're going to close their worst performing parks... not by geography. And by that rationale: Both CP and KI pull in 3.5 million people. They're not going anywhere And neither is kings dominion. If anything, the lowest performing parks will be cut. Look at money coming in, that's what will actually tell you what's going first.
Lol...Knotts is the #1 producer in the chain, it produces about 2x KI. The question of the video is silly, as KI as the $3 producer isn't being sold. There is no chance they want to have a competitor near their #2 producer Cedar Point, that isn't owned by them. Especially, not a Herschend or United Parks that would invest a lot of money into it and force them to invest even more money than they already do into Cedar Point. CP and KI work in synergy currently for the chain.
@@grobble8954 I believe Canada's Wonderland is the #2 producer and Cedar Point & King's Island frequently take turns with each other for the 3 & 4 spot
@wawawis Wonderland is 4th and by a good distance from KI at #3. Knotts is #1 and Cedar Point #2. Each alone produce almost double #3. The top 2 produce about 52 to 55% for Cedat Fair legacy parks.
W Kentucky kingdom, they'd have to get rid of it to but my ki .. also, WoF is a future poster child, not going anywhere, Mayne valley fair, DL, maybe DP even worse case .
Hypothetically, it would more likely not to happen than happen. There are a lot more underperforming parks that would be sold off well before Kings Island.
I would sell cedar point with the top thrill 2 catastrophe and they are mostly landlocked, they have to tear stuff down in order to build something new, therefore they are capped as far as expansion goes, how can you expand upon that park without taking stuff out first, they literally dont have any room!!!
For as much as Cedar Fair wanted Kings Island I can't see the "new" Six Flags parting with it but I get Don's explanation about geography and it does make sense. However, I can see Six Flags America and/or St. Louis being offered first despite being mid-tier parks compared to KI. As for a new owner I would want Herschend to grab it. Even though they ran Darien Lake for what seems like a minute they did add some nice thematic elements there with the Rowdy's Ridge and Boardwalk areas (if those are still there). But if Herschend gets Kings Island then what becomes of Kentucky Kingdom, which is technically in the same market?
One thing to consider: the Beach defunct waterpark. If a giant major player moves in and buys KI, they could buy that in addition to the undeveloped land KI already had, and dramatically expand into a regional multi-day park with park owned hotels like Disney.
But SF would have to be dramatically failing to sell KI, even as a package deal.
Like the Vortex plot of land?
There is no chance KI is sold, It's the 3rd biggest producer of the Cedar Fair Legacy parks and it is the 3rd biggest producer in the combined chain. It's far ahead of any SF legacy park..ie.. Magic Mountain and Great Adventure, the 2 biggest producer pf SF legacy parks. Also, it makes no sense for them to bring in a competitor just 3 hours from Cedar Point, that's not in their chain, especially a Herschend or United Parks that would pump a ton of money in the park, forcing them to pump more money than they already do into Cedar Point Cedar Point and Kings Island work synergistic in selling the old Platinum product and now the all park passport to people in Ohio, Northern Ky and southern Michigan
Ppl have been saying the economy is going to crash for years and it hasn’t happened. Everything is pointing to a soft landing and a Fed rate cut so yeah not sure where those particular takes are coming from. So yeah I’m gonna say a KI sale isn’t in the cards for SF. Also, I’d hate losing Peanuts in the kids area so a sale sounds absolutely awful
Exactly, people like you and me follow financials, the markets, etc... People hear something from years ago and they keep repeating it, even as data points change.
@@grobble8954 Even if they follow financials, what makes them think things are about to crash is when a president they didn't vote for is elected.
"Always" is too long. Who knows how companies change over time.
But if SF is looking to sell off I think KI is just about the last. So much potential and so much room for expansion.
CP for example is locked size wise and is not ideally located to be anything but a local park. You can't open in November/December and are limited in expanding Haunt.
But yea - KI is the perfect target for a group looking to expand (neither United or Herschend are in any position to do that or need to now).
Reminds me a bit of when airlines merge. Cleveland was a hub for Continental, Chicago and Newark were a hub for United, when the two airlines merged into United, Cleveland was out as a hub because of the other two close hubs for United. Look for parks clustered near each other to be ones to be sold. Also add in length of season.
When the 2008 recession occurred there was no thought of them selling KI or any major park. Actually, if you know the financials Cedar Fair weathered the 2008 crash better than any other regional operator by far. That was despite the fact they had the bad timing of taking on the 1.4B debt to acquire the Paramount parks just 2 years before an economic downturn. If anything is sold just b/c they don't as many parks or b/c of economic downturn, it would 1 or several of the smaller parks. You don't sell any of f your most valuable assets with the growth now and potential to grow more.
In my opinion, no other park has a brighter future than Kings Island! They literally have 300 more acres that they can build on and add to the park! I can't think of another park with the kind of potential that Kings Island has! With the land they have available, they literally have the space to build the best park in the world and it wouldn't even be close!
They don't own Darien Lake, they have an operating lease, it's owned by EPR
I think they would sell one of the six flags legacy parks in the east, Dorney, or Dominion before Kings Island
My interest is peaked. What type of ride would the Big Red Machine be? They already have a 200 and 300 foot coaster. Do they play on the word "machine" and go with a something with a lot of moving parts like a large Mack Extreme Spinner or an S&S Fourth Dimension Coaster, or perhaps in a few years if there is legitimate proof of concept a large S&S Axis Coaster. Or perhaps, they just play on the competitiveness that is pro sports and take the North American inversion record from Steel Curtain. That would tie in nice with an inversion focused ride on the Vortex plot of land and the entrance off the most "Cincinnati" part of the park in Coney Mall. it would have to be a coasters though, right?
Dealing with the hypothetical, if FUN needed to sell off for a cash flow infusion would be sold to Hershend or Sea World. If anything this is the 5 company to own KI in the last 52 years and the park has a history of being acquired.
While they would never sell to United Parks, the seasonal aspect is moot. United wanted to buy Cedar Fair a few years back and all of their parks are seasonal except Knotts. They would only sell small disposable parks to United Parks b/c they don't want the competition. United Parks financials are currently great, they are printing cash and literally are buying back stock at a ridiculous rate b/c they have nothing to do with their cash. They wanted to acquire parks, but don't have any appealing options.They couldn't get cedar Fair and now with the merger they couldn't get SF. FYI, given SF poor results for years, United Parks was eyeing them and that's part of the reason Cedar Fair was interested in the merger, besides regional diversity. They didn't want United Parks with all their cash to get the better SF parks b/c they would actually put the money into them unlike SF management to make them much
better
I don't know if Kings Island will always be Six Flags, but I believe it will always be with the family of parks it has been for the last 20 years! I think what has happened will remain for a long time, other than maybe discontinuing to manage the parks Six Flags doesn't actually own. That might happen, but the way it is now, is how it will remain probably for the remainder of our lives anyway. Now, as far as The Beast book, RL Stein is from Columbus and yes a Kings Island fan. I really liked the first one, even though it wasn't true that there was a park there in 1933. The second book was terrible. He should not have written that one!
You do realize SF Great America is 5 hours from Kings Island. 90% of regional theme park visitors are within 100 miles of the park they go to. Great America changes noting KI. Again, they would not want a big operator like Herschend and United competing in the over lap markets with Cedar Point. Both of those companies would pump large Capex into KI, forcing them to increase the Capex more at Cedar Point.
With Universal / Comcast starting to build smaller reginal theme parks, I would think maybe Universal or even maybe Disney would entertain purchasing a quality reginal park.
i don't believe they'll ever sell KI. CF bought the parks from Paramount to get KI so they never have to compete with KI again. They won the war by buying the competition between CP and KI.
In all likelyhood, they're going to close their worst performing parks... not by geography.
And by that rationale:
Both CP and KI pull in 3.5 million people. They're not going anywhere
And neither is kings dominion.
If anything, the lowest performing parks will be cut.
Look at money coming in, that's what will actually tell you what's going first.
Why not Knotts? That would fit Herschend and United's clientele more than Kings Island.
Lol...Knotts is the #1 producer in the chain, it produces about 2x KI. The question of the video is silly, as KI as the $3 producer isn't being sold. There is no chance they want to have a competitor near their #2 producer Cedar Point, that isn't owned by them. Especially, not a Herschend or United Parks that would invest a lot of money into it and force them to invest even more money than they already do into Cedar Point. CP and KI work in synergy currently for the chain.
@@grobble8954 I believe Canada's Wonderland is the #2 producer and Cedar Point & King's Island frequently take turns with each other for the 3 & 4 spot
@wawawis Wonderland is 4th and by a good distance from KI at #3. Knotts is #1 and Cedar Point #2. Each alone produce almost double #3. The top 2 produce about 52 to 55% for Cedat Fair legacy parks.
Maybe a Merlin
W Kentucky kingdom, they'd have to get rid of it to but my ki .. also, WoF is a future poster child, not going anywhere, Mayne valley fair, DL, maybe DP even worse case .
Hypothetically, it would more likely not to happen than happen. There are a lot more underperforming parks that would be sold off well before Kings Island.
Where do you get the listener questions?
Kings island will always be Cincinnati's theme park and no one else's 😊
I would sell cedar point with the top thrill 2 catastrophe and they are mostly landlocked, they have to tear stuff down in order to build something new, therefore they are capped as far as expansion goes, how can you expand upon that park without taking stuff out first, they literally dont have any room!!!
For as much as Cedar Fair wanted Kings Island I can't see the "new" Six Flags parting with it but I get Don's explanation about geography and it does make sense.
However, I can see Six Flags America and/or St. Louis being offered first despite being mid-tier parks compared to KI.
As for a new owner I would want Herschend to grab it. Even though they ran Darien Lake for what seems like a minute they did add some nice thematic elements there with the Rowdy's Ridge and Boardwalk areas (if those are still there). But if Herschend gets Kings Island then what becomes of Kentucky Kingdom, which is technically in the same market?
Worlds of fun, michigain adventure, valley fair, etc… would get sold off. Not kings island. Not kings island in 50 years
I would love to see KI sold! Nothing good will ever come there as long as CP is up north.