While I appreciate your textual contribution to this discussion; I cant shake off the feeling that your expressed agreement with Joe seems a bit *_pHohRcedt!_*
I do love how, with the revelation of who and what Cuff actually is later on, the starting chapters of the story where he's being all empathetic and understanding about the hardships people have gone through in this world make absolutely no sense whatsoever. It's grade A writing, you just have to read the alphabet backwards.
From what I've seen of it, the chatter dialogue is so exhausting to listen to. There's so much of it. Every little thing the player does seems to make Frey and Cuff have a conversation. I've played Dragon's Dogma so I'm familiar with chatty games, but the way these characters talk is so passive aggressive, I didn't want to play beyond the demo. I heard there's a slider to decrease their frequency, but that doesn't change the fact that developers thought players would want to hear these buckets of sunshine indirectly bash how they played the game every 10 seconds.
It's like Ranton said seems that game gets better after your beat the first lady, but i's a really long time and I'm sure that not a lot of people will stomach the time to get there. Fun to see on streams though. Thanks for highlights!
I really don't understand why they didn't give you a melee weapon from the start, I thought this game only had ranged spells that act like shotguns/snipers/machine guns, similar to Infamous or Ghostwire tokyo. Made me drop the game within 3 hours.
A lot of people claim they don't care about what a videogame character looks like, but they use this as an argument against representation. They'll say "I don't care, so these people complaining about this are just being triggered snowflakes." If you genuinely don't care, it shouldn't matter if you're playing as someone who doesn't look like you. For me, as long as it's not the brand of extremism that pairs representation with racism against white people and/or sexism against men, I have no problems with it. I think Forspoken is definitely mediocre, but I can see what it's trying to do. Gaming is an overwhelmingly male space, and Forspoken is very clearly aimed at women. Women don't have the years of experience with gaming that most men do, so it throws up tutorial after tutorial to make sure the player knows what's going on. Plus, it has female representation out the ass. I think it failed to stick the landing, which does suck, but it doesn't deserve anywhere near the extreme level of hate it got.
Depends on the game doesn't it? In a game where you play AS someone it doesn't really matter in that sense (apex, forspoken, final fantasy etc). But when you have some sort of involvement of "creating" your playable character it absolutely matters to some extend (mass effect, risen, Cyberpunk). I never had any problem playing as something or someone that doesn't resemble me. I also think that the whole representation issue is only valid to people who want to be represented. Arguing about underrepresentation needs a person actually caring about it, which is a niche topic. If it doesn't matter that the main character of the hitman series has no hair, why would it matter which sexuality any of my playable charactery has, or skin colour or whatever. It goes both ways imo.
I'm waiting for the one stream where he does just do it lol. Probs not tho, he doesn't want feedback or thoughts until people have actually had time to watch the whole thing. (See odyssey mushroom kingdom)
The stuff he said about feeling the lack of presentation is so true. I can count on my fingers the games that lets you play as a gay male character and most of those are rpg games where it doesn't really affect the story much because you can be any other gender or sexuality like cyberpunk 2077 or Mass Effect. The only other game I can think of where a playable character is canonically gay no matter what is Overwatch with Soldier 76 who is only 1 out of the 36 playable heroes. I'm not counting visual novels or dating sims since I can hardly call those games.
@@ريّان-ذ4ت although perhaps the reason gay female characters get more widespread rep is largely because straight males are turned on by them (and are scared of gay male characters)
Can't really argue with how someone feels. But it seems like you're specifying your way into a problem that you wouldn't otherwise have. Like, if you discount all the games that meet your criteria (like the aforementioned rpg's) of course the numbers are going to be low!
@@existenceisrelativeok but the point they made is that because they're create a characters they aren't written that way so it's like yeah my create a character might be gay but everyone in the story will act the same most likely because accounting for all the dialogue changes would require more voice actor work which would cost money.
14:03 They added the child and had them around just long enough so they can be killed and build some pathos. It was a dirty fucking tactic in Demon Slayer, and it's just as dirty here.
Ok but the normie gamer (often times losers let's be real) audience likes anime so when demon slayer does it it's actually fine it's only bad when this game does it. No hate towards demon slayer though it's a perfectly serviceable shounen manga...
something Joe mentioned was the female representation in this game. I genuinely liked that this game had women duking it out and being in power, it's not very often that your opponent is a badass powerful witch. I like badass powerful witches, we should have more of those.
I said this to my wifey after I played the demo. I'm not gonna buy it. It's not bad, it's just the very definition of a MID game. It's so mid there isn't even anything relevant to remember except that the combat is actually pretty fun but shallow. I seriously don't understand the overhate.
Perhaps all the hate comes from the idea that this project is essentially replacing something. As in, a better project could be financed and developed instead of this mediocre pos. In addition, perhaps it gets on peoples nerves that its one of those "lets make it for western audiences" kind of games. Not only is it pandering, its low quality pandering. Then you add in overused marvel-talk, poorly executed isekai tropes and a dead ubisoft-like open world on top of it all. The game will be "just" mid several years later. Right now its not simply a mid game, its a representation of all the crap that plagues AAA videogames when monetisation is not the most obvious issue.
@@Poppenheimer69 This is the exact thing which is uncalled for really. Why do 'you' care what a company does and creates? What do 'you' decide which projects people take on? Your power as a customer is purchasing power and criticism of a product. Your power does not extend to saying which projects a company does on their own. It's this exact entitlement that breeds so much toxicity everywhere because anything to hate is just easy bait. The writing, tropes, and pandering are, *shockingly* completely subjective and whether they are or not these are 'your' opinions. Talk with your wallet, don't buy it. Simple. Objectively speaking? Behind all of the bullshit that the game made? The combat system tried to do something fun and quite different. A functionally decent combat system that flows incredibly smoothly that's only matched by what? Hogwarts Legacy? But most people are just way above themselves to simply have a fun combat system and nothing else. It's not worth whatever they're asking for? Then don't buy it. Get a genuinely good game and learn to love something for once instead of stewing in that hate of a MID game. Jeez.
I see the reception as being the delta between expectation and reality. It's a AAA game that was hyped by the publisher so when the game turned out to be mid and under expectations, it doesn't matter what it is objectively but how people feel about it. Starfield is the latest example. It's an average game, a Bethesda Game, but after the launch and the tonguing it got from critics, nowadays everyone is complaining about it because it's kinda soulless and flat/boring. The Saints Row reboot is similar as well. It's a middling game that functions at the very least but because of people's expectations versus what it actually became (and actually kinda similar character writing to Forspoken now that I think of it) it bombed spectacularly and killed Volition dead.
0:30 The issue is that all streaming time, even if its dedicated to a certain game, is converted into potential streaming time in the mind of the viewer. Meaning that, as far as the chat is concerned, there is no "forspoken-time", just "time". Time that, again, in their mind, has a small intrinsic value due to its ability to contain entertainment. A intrinsic value that can be diminished if it is filled with bad things instead of the desired good ones. Thats why chat is dissatisfied even though they should technically be happy they get more stream. To them, its not a slightly diminished addition to X, but a waste of Y.
it boggles my mind that they gatekeep the melee from the player for so long. It takes HOURS even if you ignore everything other than story content. the rock magic sucks so much. if they wanted ranged they should have started with the lightning.
3:33 That's such a terrible take. If you want female representation, support this game that has the most insufferable protagonist around because apparently that's the best we can do for female leads. It's not a beggar's can't be choosers thing, there are already a ton of good female leads in games. They don't just fat finger label themselves as such because they're normal fucking games that are good.
It's setting also done in the most terrible way possible. Like a parody of what right thinks what female centered game is that's done by liberals. And it's all done with absolutely straight face.
Hey bud ik this a year old why is every comment I've read from you sound like it's written by a 14 year old who watches anti sjw compilations and wears a fadora???
Joe's comment that "You can say anything sounds forced and you will sound profound when you criticise something" is so correct, my god
While I appreciate your textual contribution to this discussion; I cant shake off the feeling that your expressed agreement with Joe seems a bit *_pHohRcedt!_*
Thanks for the edits! It flows really well. Feels like watching the full stream despite being half the length. In a good way lol
Good to know, thanks for the feedback
I do love how, with the revelation of who and what Cuff actually is later on, the starting chapters of the story where he's being all empathetic and understanding about the hardships people have gone through in this world make absolutely no sense whatsoever.
It's grade A writing, you just have to read the alphabet backwards.
6+ hour stream at the end of the week = rushed edits, sorry if cuts are weird
No worries chief, don't overwork yourself though
Loves forspoken
I mean if the game doesn't care with it's cuts, why bother
The fact that these edits exist at all are insane and so good
Thank you for the work you did. Don’t push yourself too hard :)
I can’t believe forespoken is winning me over a little bit , very excited for the next forespoken Fridays on a Saturday
Loves forspoken XD
Yeah honestly if the game started with killing the tanta and also if you cut out all the dialogue and shit id buy it
@@gold5556 if you care you can turn off voices during gameplay
@@bimblor7945 lmao
Ur actually my GOAT for editing these down lol
Being a vod boy has never been easier
From what I've seen of it, the chatter dialogue is so exhausting to listen to. There's so much of it. Every little thing the player does seems to make Frey and Cuff have a conversation. I've played Dragon's Dogma so I'm familiar with chatty games, but the way these characters talk is so passive aggressive, I didn't want to play beyond the demo.
I heard there's a slider to decrease their frequency, but that doesn't change the fact that developers thought players would want to hear these buckets of sunshine indirectly bash how they played the game every 10 seconds.
It's like Ranton said seems that game gets better after your beat the first lady, but i's a really long time and I'm sure that not a lot of people will stomach the time to get there. Fun to see on streams though. Thanks for highlights!
I really don't understand why they didn't give you a melee weapon from the start, I thought this game only had ranged spells that act like shotguns/snipers/machine guns, similar to Infamous or Ghostwire tokyo. Made me drop the game within 3 hours.
A lot of people claim they don't care about what a videogame character looks like, but they use this as an argument against representation. They'll say "I don't care, so these people complaining about this are just being triggered snowflakes." If you genuinely don't care, it shouldn't matter if you're playing as someone who doesn't look like you. For me, as long as it's not the brand of extremism that pairs representation with racism against white people and/or sexism against men, I have no problems with it.
I think Forspoken is definitely mediocre, but I can see what it's trying to do. Gaming is an overwhelmingly male space, and Forspoken is very clearly aimed at women. Women don't have the years of experience with gaming that most men do, so it throws up tutorial after tutorial to make sure the player knows what's going on. Plus, it has female representation out the ass. I think it failed to stick the landing, which does suck, but it doesn't deserve anywhere near the extreme level of hate it got.
Depends on the game doesn't it? In a game where you play AS someone it doesn't really matter in that sense (apex, forspoken, final fantasy etc). But when you have some sort of involvement of "creating" your playable character it absolutely matters to some extend (mass effect, risen, Cyberpunk). I never had any problem playing as something or someone that doesn't resemble me. I also think that the whole representation issue is only valid to people who want to be represented. Arguing about underrepresentation needs a person actually caring about it, which is a niche topic. If it doesn't matter that the main character of the hitman series has no hair, why would it matter which sexuality any of my playable charactery has, or skin colour or whatever. It goes both ways imo.
All jokes aside, I think Fantasy Robots are the coolest thing ever
27:00 imagin that's how he published that
I'm waiting for the one stream where he does just do it lol. Probs not tho, he doesn't want feedback or thoughts until people have actually had time to watch the whole thing. (See odyssey mushroom kingdom)
The stuff he said about feeling the lack of presentation is so true. I can count on my fingers the games that lets you play as a gay male character and most of those are rpg games where it doesn't really affect the story much because you can be any other gender or sexuality like cyberpunk 2077 or Mass Effect. The only other game I can think of where a playable character is canonically gay no matter what is Overwatch with Soldier 76 who is only 1 out of the 36 playable heroes. I'm not counting visual novels or dating sims since I can hardly call those games.
isnt tracer also gay
@@Ω3103ζ I specifically said gay male characters, female gay characters are actually fairly represented in video games.
@@ريّان-ذ4ت although perhaps the reason gay female characters get more widespread rep is largely because straight males are turned on by them (and are scared of gay male characters)
Can't really argue with how someone feels. But it seems like you're specifying your way into a problem that you wouldn't otherwise have. Like, if you discount all the games that meet your criteria (like the aforementioned rpg's) of course the numbers are going to be low!
@@existenceisrelativeok but the point they made is that because they're create a characters they aren't written that way so it's like yeah my create a character might be gay but everyone in the story will act the same most likely because accounting for all the dialogue changes would require more voice actor work which would cost money.
Ngl game is growing on me
6:30
Ah yes. The classic jo-kes. Thanks for that that made me laugh and yes you're right that was a banger. :))))
Crazy how much better the second set of powers seem. Glad they're better for progression sake, but the first set shouldn't be so disappointing.
14:03 They added the child and had them around just long enough so they can be killed and build some pathos. It was a dirty fucking tactic in Demon Slayer, and it's just as dirty here.
Ok but the normie gamer (often times losers let's be real) audience likes anime so when demon slayer does it it's actually fine it's only bad when this game does it. No hate towards demon slayer though it's a perfectly serviceable shounen manga...
ngl i actually think frey calling that one dude "break bob" is hilarious
ik i'm super late but i've been watching these edits in the background and wanted to say i appreciate your work a lot!
also FOR BIRGIR
something Joe mentioned was the female representation in this game. I genuinely liked that this game had women duking it out and being in power, it's not very often that your opponent is a badass powerful witch.
I like badass powerful witches, we should have more of those.
>Stranger of Paradise
>that's a mainstream game
U wot 🤣
I said this to my wifey after I played the demo.
I'm not gonna buy it. It's not bad, it's just the very definition of a MID game. It's so mid there isn't even anything relevant to remember except that the combat is actually pretty fun but shallow.
I seriously don't understand the overhate.
Perhaps all the hate comes from the idea that this project is essentially replacing something. As in, a better project could be financed and developed instead of this mediocre pos. In addition, perhaps it gets on peoples nerves that its one of those "lets make it for western audiences" kind of games. Not only is it pandering, its low quality pandering. Then you add in overused marvel-talk, poorly executed isekai tropes and a dead ubisoft-like open world on top of it all.
The game will be "just" mid several years later. Right now its not simply a mid game, its a representation of all the crap that plagues AAA videogames when monetisation is not the most obvious issue.
@@Poppenheimer69 This is the exact thing which is uncalled for really.
Why do 'you' care what a company does and creates? What do 'you' decide which projects people take on?
Your power as a customer is purchasing power and criticism of a product.
Your power does not extend to saying which projects a company does on their own.
It's this exact entitlement that breeds so much toxicity everywhere because anything to hate is just easy bait.
The writing, tropes, and pandering are, *shockingly* completely subjective and whether they are or not these are 'your' opinions. Talk with your wallet, don't buy it. Simple.
Objectively speaking? Behind all of the bullshit that the game made?
The combat system tried to do something fun and quite different. A functionally decent combat system that flows incredibly smoothly that's only matched by what? Hogwarts Legacy?
But most people are just way above themselves to simply have a fun combat system and nothing else.
It's not worth whatever they're asking for? Then don't buy it. Get a genuinely good game and learn to love something for once instead of stewing in that hate of a MID game. Jeez.
I see the reception as being the delta between expectation and reality. It's a AAA game that was hyped by the publisher so when the game turned out to be mid and under expectations, it doesn't matter what it is objectively but how people feel about it.
Starfield is the latest example. It's an average game, a Bethesda Game, but after the launch and the tonguing it got from critics, nowadays everyone is complaining about it because it's kinda soulless and flat/boring. The Saints Row reboot is similar as well. It's a middling game that functions at the very least but because of people's expectations versus what it actually became (and actually kinda similar character writing to Forspoken now that I think of it) it bombed spectacularly and killed Volition dead.
The game reminds me of an unholy mix of the boring non combat parts of horizon zero dawn and the very pretty but boring ff15
I agree with Joe, the stylized curve in the top right that obscures the writing makes it unreadable for me.
0:30
The issue is that all streaming time, even if its dedicated to a certain game, is converted into potential streaming time in the mind of the viewer.
Meaning that, as far as the chat is concerned, there is no "forspoken-time", just "time".
Time that, again, in their mind, has a small intrinsic value due to its ability to contain entertainment.
A intrinsic value that can be diminished if it is filled with bad things instead of the desired good ones.
Thats why chat is dissatisfied even though they should technically be happy they get more stream.
To them, its not a slightly diminished addition to X, but a waste of Y.
you accidentally left in the parts where he preached about bullshit
Least creepy gamer
it boggles my mind that they gatekeep the melee from the player for so long. It takes HOURS even if you ignore everything other than story content. the rock magic sucks so much.
if they wanted ranged they should have started with the lightning.
Forspoken the game about a lot of woman all on their monthly.
This is probably one of the worst "RPGs" I've ever seen
3:33 That's such a terrible take. If you want female representation, support this game that has the most insufferable protagonist around because apparently that's the best we can do for female leads.
It's not a beggar's can't be choosers thing, there are already a ton of good female leads in games. They don't just fat finger label themselves as such because they're normal fucking games that are good.
It's setting also done in the most terrible way possible. Like a parody of what right thinks what female centered game is that's done by liberals. And it's all done with absolutely straight face.
Imagine crying about representation all the time and then being defensive when someone has an argument against it lol huge L take from lil Joseph here
Hey bud ik this a year old why is every comment I've read from you sound like it's written by a 14 year old who watches anti sjw compilations and wears a fadora???