THANKS, I'M SETTING THE LASH THIS AFTERNOON TO .003".WESTECH SAID IDEAL IS 0 LASH ONCE IT'S HOT. I'LL MAKE IT A LOOSE .003". THEY PICKED UP 11 HP. A TENTH OFF YOUR ET WAS REALLY GOOD!
feel you left something out . this comparison you make ,….. wonder,….. did you already have , the adjustable rockers , ( optimum lash ) with the hydraulic lifter ????
Sorry. Yes, I did already have adjustable rockers. That would be a must. I liked running zero lash with the hydraulic lifters and .016 lash on the solids.
My brother rebuilt a 327 Chevy for which he ordered the 30/30 fuelie cam. He did not know it but the cam he received was actually the 350 h.p. 327 which many remember as the L79. He adjusted the lifters with the 0.030" lash. Maybe a month later he realized that the part was not what he thought he was getting, I do not remember exactly how he discovered this. Yes, the cam came in a cardboard tube. I guess he didn't check part numbers at the purchase and relied on the guy behind the counter. There were no issues of wear and he swore that it pulled the left front wheel off the ground. That never happened with the fuelie cam. Years later, I installed that cam with hydraulic lifters in my friends 1970 350 Chevelle equipped with a 4 speed. That engine woke up plenty and was pleasure to drive. Now, GM does not supply them any longer and with China in the mix with lifters, who know what they are putting in the lifter box marked GM. I wonder why every lifter purchased today has swirl grinding marks. They used to be flat and dark gray, a process feel they should revert back to along with proper metallurgy.
I raced circle track with a 340 that had a ground down 360 crankshaft. I wanted to run solid lifters on a hydraulic camshaft. I asked Ultradyne and they recommended 0.006" intake and 0.008" exhaust clearances. The theoretical technical clearance running solid lifters on a hydraulic camshaft calls for 0.003" to 004" clearance, for the hydraulic cam ramps. If the clearance got slightly wide, the lifters became extremely noisy. I ended up setting the clearances to 0.004" intake and 0.006" exhaust, hot. The cast iron engine block and cast iron cylinder heads expand when hot, as does the length of the exhaust valve. Cold would reduce the clearances by about 0.004" iron head, 0.006" aluminum head and 0.008" aluminum block. The old limited travel Rhoads lifters called for adjustable rockers, their plungers didn't have enough height or travel for non-adjustable rockers. At some point, Rhoads changed their lifters to standard, full travel plunger type. A friend ran Rhaods lifters on a hydraulic camshaft, with non-adjustable 340/360 rocker arms.
I've been running solid lifters on hydraulic cams for many years, mostly for the same reasons you mentioned. With the poly locks they hold the lash for a long time. When it comes to the big block chevy, I broke down and went solid roller. Big blocks are hard on flat tappets, but I use higher ratio rockers to make up for the lash adjustment. All the best.
Always wondered about this but never tried it. Was thinking maybe the opening and closing ramps would be slightly different because there's no "give" on the solid, and hydraulics are cushioned. I'm actually looking for ward to trying it. 👍
Yes, I think the ramps are more aggressive on a solid cam. So solid lifters on a hydraulic cam is fine. But I don’t think hydraulic lifters on a solid cam would work.
Duster sounds like a champ! Out of curiosity what oil weight and oil brand do you use in the duster? I use 30 straight oil. Just looking for other options. Thank you.
My charger had the 484 cam for years. Loved it. Not crazy about the engine vacuum for power brakes. That’s racing trying things out and thinking outside the box. I used adjustable rockers in a 440 years ago with hydraulics. Worked great and never had issues with rpm breaking up at 6500. It’s a balanced motor which I think makes a big difference cranking high speeds. Chrysler is not known for being accurate in a factory balance setting. I switched to a hydraulic setup with adjustable pushrods and stock stamped rockers because I put a stock valve cover back on for a factory look. Still worked great. Motor never quit at high rpm. I freshened up a 383 and bought custom pushrods from “Smith”? and set my own independent valve lash since I was happy using this method before. Now the 440 has a hydraulic roller setup with adjustable rockers again using Trickflow heads with a six pack. That motor should be running this year with a Ready to Run MSD distributor. Evolution is part of the great experience of muscle cars. That’s something electric car owners will never experience! Thanks for sharing
On ly hyd lifters I had that seemed to be "Ok" over 6k were Rhoads. The others never gave up or broke up but you could just tell it was lacking upstairs. Swap to a solid flat tappet holy cow NIght and day. For anything running over 6k I used solids. Nothing inside to malfunction, if oil gets aerated I know Im not bending a pushrod or worse tagging a piston
Aren’t solid lifters usually lighter than hydraulic? This may have helped w valve spring control. When in doubt on oiling, the “cool face” lifter is the way to go.
Hughes Engines sells them. JOHNSON - I believe. They have a small, like 12 thou hole EDM’d thru them. Takes oil and puts it right on the face of the lifter. Oh, lighter yet!
Nice vid, My brother had a Dodge aspen R/T with a 318 with 360 heads with a .500/300* cam with a 4 speed he'd launch at 5k and as you described hit float at 6k/6100 RPM. we always thought it was just weak valve springs, never once thought of a lifter issue. BTW this was back in the mid-late 90's when he was hossing it around, never had an issue and otherwise perfect but would never go beyond 6K-6100 RPM
@@Duster_Garage, The rest of the setup was equally nasty, Mr Gasket Vertigate shifter 10 bolt with a 3.55 posi traction bars on clamped stock leaf springs. Most everything was spares from our dads pile of stuff but it simply worked, not many mustangs or Camaros would cross it
Good information, I recently installed solid lifters on a hydraulic flat tap camshaft, I swap them out due too a collapse lifter internal spring failure in a GEN 4 BBC. I ended up with .018 Intake side and a loose .030 exhaust side. The exhaust side took a while figured out, I think because the engine has a turbocharger and the extreme exhaust heat restriction play factor. When i lash out the exhaust .018-.020 it will back fire through the exhaust as the engine heats up. On .030 no more backfiring through the exhaust.
@@Duster_Garage .030 cold, anything less then .025 cold on the exhaust valves rocker arms it will cause the exhaust side too backfire through the exhaust as everything heats and expands, the BBC has SpeedMaster Aluminum heads. Stainless steel roller tip rocker arms.
Update: i ran full boost for the 1st time on the BBC 454 it was happy at .040 for the exhaust valves roller tip rocker. Intake valves at .018. I can not figure out why the exhaust valve is happy at such loose lash? I have different theories, mostly extreme thermal expansion from the turbocharger exhaust restrictions.
@@Duster_Garage I don't know if I could deal with it even though it's the way to go for all out power. There is extra noise even when going from hydraulic flat tappet to hydraulic roller. That car has to be a blast to drive on the street!
Did you ever try to set your hydraulic lifters close to zero lash? It seems that the issue you were having was that the lifters at high RPM's were pumping up and consequently they would not let the valves close and the engine starts missing. Normally when you adjust hydraulic lifters you take up all the gap between the push rod and the rocker arm and then give the adjusting nut an additional 1/4 to 3/4 turn. If you just set it as close to zero lash as possible, just when you feel a slight resistance in the pushrod 1/8 turn or less down from zero lash on your adjusting nut, you then effectively turn the hydraulic lifter in a solid lifter, the lifter is no longer taking up any clearance on the valve train, it is fully pumped up and it can no longer get to the point, at high RPM and oil pressures, where it will not let your valves close. Just make sure that you have good high performance lifters with a Truarc lifter plunger retainer, if you have lifters with the paper clip retainer they are not very tolerant of tight lifter plunger to retainer clearances and may fail at high rpm.
That is very true. But, I always do set my hydraulic lifters to zero lash. My most recent set were Comp pro magnum. They had a really nice retaining clip, not a chintzy wire clip. They work great for the first 2 years.
In my case, I think so. My cam my be a little too big for my engine. Increasing valve lash will effectively decrease duration slightly, aiding in low end power.
@@Duster_Garage the correct cam would perform lot better have the correct ramps, and duration and ur springs are weak 4 hydralic but i hope it performs how u want!
Great video! Never set lash before, but seems like its worth it if Im going to buy an older car, kinda like a routine check up. Are you going to make a video on how to adjust the lash? That would be sweet
Just to help out and I’ll hush.. looking here.. I’ll see if I can send a pic… chilton auto repair manual 72-79 page c463 states a 351ho for 1972 not a 5.0 a 351HO mechanical valve clearance HOT should be .025 intake and exhaust. I’m trying to find mopar b8s with solid lifters but what I’m finding is they all went hydraulic for these years expect some 6 cylinders? Probably a slant bc it doesn’t say v6.. but for you mopar guys a 6 cyl valves should be set .010 hot on the intake and .020 on the exhaust. Javelin 4 bangers .006-.009 and .016-.019 both hot. All I’m saying is it you set your lash to tight when cold it will tell you it doesn’t like it way before the temp gets halfway. Like Fez says “have a good day!” …. I said have a good day!
Hey brother i don’t mean to bother you but my flat tappet cam is a 4/7 swap and it 465 lift in./473 lift ex. And 278/288 duration with 109 lobe separation and i was wondering if the same lash of 10 thousandths cold then 14 hot would work for me cause i don’t know how close these cam numbers are to yours …..if your cam is much bigger than mine I’m not sure if i would need a little less lash. Hope you have a suggestion. Thanks. That is if i decide to go with solid lifters.
Met a racer who only ran solids on his Bracket Duster, never had problems with combination. nice work
thanks man
THANKS, I'M SETTING THE LASH THIS AFTERNOON TO .003".WESTECH SAID IDEAL IS 0 LASH ONCE IT'S HOT. I'LL MAKE IT A LOOSE .003". THEY PICKED UP 11 HP. A TENTH OFF YOUR ET WAS REALLY GOOD!
Nice. Zero lash seems tight but them guys know more than me.
A fat lady can wear spandex, doesnt mean its right.
Better to just get a good solid grind cam then you really reap the rewards.
Fat girls need lovin’ too, lol. I hear what you’re saying, an actual solid lifter cam would have made more of a difference.
feel you left something out .
this comparison you make ,…..
wonder,….. did you already have , the adjustable rockers , ( optimum lash ) with the hydraulic lifter ????
Sorry. Yes, I did already have adjustable rockers. That would be a must. I liked running zero lash with the hydraulic lifters and .016 lash on the solids.
My brother rebuilt a 327 Chevy for which he ordered the 30/30 fuelie cam. He did not know it but the cam he received was actually the 350 h.p. 327 which many remember as the L79. He adjusted the lifters with the 0.030" lash. Maybe a month later he realized that the part was not what he thought he was getting, I do not remember exactly how he discovered this. Yes, the cam came in a cardboard tube. I guess he didn't check part numbers at the purchase and relied on the guy behind the counter. There were no issues of wear and he swore that it pulled the left front wheel off the ground. That never happened with the fuelie cam. Years later, I installed that cam with hydraulic lifters in my friends 1970 350 Chevelle equipped with a 4 speed. That engine woke up plenty and was pleasure to drive. Now, GM does not supply them any longer and with China in the mix with lifters, who know what they are putting in the lifter box marked GM. I wonder why every lifter purchased today has swirl grinding marks. They used to be flat and dark gray, a process feel they should revert back to along with proper metallurgy.
So true, a lot of these parts we are getting these days are from china. The quality can be a little suspect.
This is great tech video.
You have a very nice car.
Thanks for sharing.
Take care, Ed.
Thanks Ed. You have a great rest of the weekend.
,006
I raced circle track with a 340 that had a ground down 360 crankshaft. I wanted to run solid lifters on a hydraulic camshaft. I asked Ultradyne and they recommended 0.006" intake and 0.008" exhaust clearances. The theoretical technical clearance running solid lifters on a hydraulic camshaft calls for 0.003" to 004" clearance, for the hydraulic cam ramps. If the clearance got slightly wide, the lifters became extremely noisy. I ended up setting the clearances to 0.004" intake and 0.006" exhaust, hot. The cast iron engine block and cast iron cylinder heads expand when hot, as does the length of the exhaust valve. Cold would reduce the clearances by about 0.004" iron head, 0.006" aluminum head and 0.008" aluminum block. The old limited travel Rhoads lifters called for adjustable rockers, their plungers didn't have enough height or travel for non-adjustable rockers. At some point, Rhoads changed their lifters to standard, full travel plunger type. A friend ran Rhaods lifters on a hydraulic camshaft, with non-adjustable 340/360 rocker arms.
That’s a good setup for circle track. I’m sure you picked up a little power going to the solid lifters too.
do hydraulic roller lifters work on a solid roller cam?
I would assume that would work. I know guys will run solid roller lifters on a hydraulic roller cam.
@@Duster_Garage Question how much would the timing degrees shift ;-)
I appreciate all your Tips and Tricks Videos keep up the great build on your MOPAR'S 😎🤙
I've been running solid lifters on hydraulic cams for many years, mostly for the same reasons you mentioned. With the poly locks they hold the lash for a long time. When it comes to the big block chevy, I broke down and went solid roller. Big blocks are hard on flat tappets, but I use higher ratio rockers to make up for the lash adjustment. All the best.
Sweet! Solid rollers are badass. I’d like to go solid roller eventually but the heard the lifespan on the lifters isn’t real long.
I think your ok with seat pressures below 130lbs that should get most engines to 6800rpm depending on your valve springs, and hardware...
Those springs, with comp cams locks and retainers it pulls hard to 6500. I don’t like to go past that with the stock cast crank though
Always wondered about this but never tried it. Was thinking maybe the opening and closing ramps would be slightly different because there's no "give" on the solid, and hydraulics are cushioned. I'm actually looking for ward to trying it. 👍
Yes, I think the ramps are more aggressive on a solid cam. So solid lifters on a hydraulic cam is fine. But I don’t think hydraulic lifters on a solid cam would work.
Duster sounds like a champ! Out of curiosity what oil weight and oil brand do you use in the duster? I use 30 straight oil. Just looking for other options. Thank you.
Thank you. I use Brad Penn 10w30 partial synthetic. It’s made for flat tappet cam engines. More zinc and phosphorus.
I ran 484 whit mec lifter to on my 383
It will for a while
My charger had the 484 cam for years. Loved it. Not crazy about the engine vacuum for power brakes.
That’s racing trying things out and thinking outside the box.
I used adjustable rockers in a 440 years ago with hydraulics. Worked great and never had issues with rpm breaking up at 6500. It’s a balanced motor which I think makes a big difference cranking high speeds. Chrysler is not known for being accurate in a factory balance setting. I switched to a hydraulic setup with adjustable pushrods and stock stamped rockers because I put a stock valve cover back on for a factory look. Still worked great. Motor never quit at high rpm. I freshened up a 383 and bought custom pushrods from “Smith”? and set my own independent valve lash since I was happy using this method before.
Now the 440 has a hydraulic roller setup with adjustable rockers again using Trickflow heads with a six pack. That motor should be running this year with a Ready to Run MSD distributor. Evolution is part of the great experience of muscle cars. That’s something electric car owners will never experience!
Thanks for sharing
You’re right, experimentation, learning and thinking out of the box are how you really dial in an engine.
On ly hyd lifters I had that seemed to be "Ok" over 6k were Rhoads.
The others never gave up or broke up but you could just tell it was lacking upstairs.
Swap to a solid flat tappet holy cow NIght and day. For anything running over 6k I used solids. Nothing inside to malfunction, if oil gets aerated I know Im not bending a pushrod or worse tagging a piston
Is this combination still running perfectly?
Yes, sir. Just ran its fastest 1/4 mile pass ever in April. 11.50@115.
thanks i just converted my hydraulic liftters to solid for my vw bus
Aren’t solid lifters usually lighter than hydraulic?
This may have helped w valve spring control.
When in doubt on oiling, the “cool face” lifter is the way to go.
Yes solid lifters are definitely lighter. What brand is the cool face lifter.
Hughes Engines sells them. JOHNSON - I believe.
They have a small, like 12 thou hole EDM’d thru them. Takes oil and puts it right on the face of the lifter.
Oh, lighter yet!
@@tomreyn3610 That’s cool man. My other Duster is a ‘73 with a ‘72 front end, shark tooth grille.
Nice vid, My brother had a Dodge aspen R/T with a 318 with 360 heads with a .500/300* cam with a 4 speed he'd launch at 5k and as you described hit float at 6k/6100 RPM. we always thought it was just weak valve springs, never once thought of a lifter issue. BTW this was back in the mid-late 90's when he was hossing it around, never had an issue and otherwise perfect but would never go beyond 6K-6100 RPM
Sounds like it was a wicked ride!
@@Duster_Garage, The rest of the setup was equally nasty, Mr Gasket Vertigate shifter 10 bolt with a 3.55 posi traction bars on clamped stock leaf springs. Most everything was spares from our dads pile of stuff but it simply worked, not many mustangs or Camaros would cross it
@@crazylarryjr Nice!
Good information, I recently installed solid lifters on a hydraulic flat tap camshaft, I swap them out due too a collapse lifter internal spring failure in a GEN 4 BBC. I ended up with .018 Intake side and a loose .030 exhaust side. The exhaust side took a while figured out, I think because the engine has a turbocharger and the extreme exhaust heat restriction play factor. When i lash out the exhaust .018-.020 it will back fire through the exhaust as the engine heats up. On .030 no more backfiring through the exhaust.
That’s cool. Is the .030 lash, heat I’m assuming? I’d be curious to know what it shrinks to when the engine is cold.
@@Duster_Garage .030 cold, anything less then .025 cold on the exhaust valves rocker arms it will cause the exhaust side too backfire through the exhaust as everything heats and expands, the BBC has SpeedMaster Aluminum heads. Stainless steel roller tip rocker arms.
Stock BBC 454 330HP Marine Camshaft .460/.480 lift and 213/217 duration on a 114 LSA
Update: i ran full boost for the 1st time on the BBC 454 it was happy at .040 for the exhaust valves roller tip rocker. Intake valves at .018. I can not figure out why the exhaust valve is happy at such loose lash? I have different theories, mostly extreme thermal expansion from the turbocharger exhaust restrictions.
@@angry3055 that makes sense to me.
⭐👍
"Chorus of tapping" 😆 not exactly what I would call it but I know that's all part of going solid.
Wasn’t sure how to describe it, definitely takes a little getting use to if you’re use to hydraulics.
@@Duster_Garage I don't know if I could deal with it even though it's the way to go for all out power. There is extra noise even when going from hydraulic flat tappet to hydraulic roller. That car has to be a blast to drive on the street!
@@KCDW83 It’s pretty fun.
Did you ever try to set your hydraulic lifters close to zero lash? It seems that the issue you were having was that the lifters at high RPM's were pumping up and consequently they would not let the valves close and the engine starts missing. Normally when you adjust hydraulic lifters you take up all the gap between the push rod and the rocker arm and then give the adjusting nut an additional 1/4 to 3/4 turn. If you just set it as close to zero lash as possible, just when you feel a slight resistance in the pushrod 1/8 turn or less down from zero lash on your adjusting nut, you then effectively turn the hydraulic lifter in a solid lifter, the lifter is no longer taking up any clearance on the valve train, it is fully pumped up and it can no longer get to the point, at high RPM and oil pressures, where it will not let your valves close. Just make sure that you have good high performance lifters with a Truarc lifter plunger retainer, if you have lifters with the paper clip retainer they are not very tolerant of tight lifter plunger to retainer clearances and may fail at high rpm.
That is very true. But, I always do set my hydraulic lifters to zero lash. My most recent set were Comp pro magnum. They had a really nice retaining clip, not a chintzy wire clip. They work great for the first 2 years.
more lash more torque ?
In my case, I think so. My cam my be a little too big for my engine. Increasing valve lash will effectively decrease duration slightly, aiding in low end power.
Y not use proper cam, cause it wont last
I already had that cam in the engine and I liked how it performed.
@@Duster_Garage the correct cam would perform lot better have the correct ramps, and duration and ur springs are weak 4 hydralic but i hope it performs how u want!
@@alltherpm So far so good. Those solids have been in there for 2 years. Fingers crossed.
Great video! Never set lash before, but seems like its worth it if Im going to buy an older car, kinda like a routine check up. Are you going to make a video on how to adjust the lash? That would be sweet
Not sure if I’d do a “how to” on adjusting rocker arms. It takes awhile and there is already a ton of videos out there on that.
Love the sound of that engine! Nice job!
Thank you
Keep em coming...
Will do.
Just to help out and I’ll hush.. looking here.. I’ll see if I can send a pic… chilton auto repair manual 72-79 page c463 states a 351ho for 1972 not a 5.0 a 351HO mechanical valve clearance HOT should be .025 intake and exhaust. I’m trying to find mopar b8s with solid lifters but what I’m finding is they all went hydraulic for these years expect some 6 cylinders? Probably a slant bc it doesn’t say v6.. but for you mopar guys a 6 cyl valves should be set .010 hot on the intake and .020 on the exhaust. Javelin 4 bangers .006-.009 and .016-.019 both hot. All I’m saying is it you set your lash to tight when cold it will tell you it doesn’t like it way before the temp gets halfway. Like Fez says “have a good day!” …. I said have a good day!
Hey brother i don’t mean to bother you but my flat tappet cam is a 4/7 swap and it 465 lift in./473 lift ex. And 278/288 duration with 109 lobe separation and i was wondering if the same lash of 10 thousandths cold then 14 hot would work for me cause i don’t know how close these cam numbers are to yours …..if your cam is much bigger than mine I’m not sure if i would need a little less lash. Hope you have a suggestion. Thanks. That is if i decide to go with solid lifters.
Your cam is a similar size to mine. I would think those clearances would work for you. Good luck to you if you decide to go solid.
Was the ten thousandth’s lash for intake and exhaust?
I set both intake and exhaust to .010 cold. Then set them to .014 hot after break-in.
@@Duster_Garage Thanks. Good info and video.
@@glockman8091 Thank you.