LS Lifter Comparison - What You Should Run & When!
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
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Nice job explaining. Not everyone can teach. Keep up the good work
Thank you!
Even though I new everything you were talking about. You do explain it in a great way . Keep up the good work teacher
Thanks! My mom was a teacher, guess it’s in the genes.
Don't you mean knew?
Great and informative content as always! Really enjoy watching and learning. Also a great win for Smeding to have this type of content out there representing the level of knowledge that comes with Smeding products and services.
Can you do an explanation on how to set up proper compression ratios for NA vs Boost and how to calculate compression ratio
Thanks for the education Jacob.
You’re welcome!
Great video. I learned something new.
Suggestion for future video, LS sensors what's needed what's not and where they all are..
Thank you for the info. I have seen the plastic trays strip and the lifters spin and eat the cam. I'm going to get a set of the Gatermans here soon. Thank you for the content brother. I'd like to see a 6.0l get bored to a 6 2l and get checked for wall thickness. I have never seen that. I have seen you bore and plateau hone blocks but not this particular.
Definitely going solid in the race car soon! Awesome videos, thanks!
I learned a lot from this video, so thanks for posting.
I am building a approximately 450 horse 327 8,000 RPM solid roller daily driver. The cam is the smallest solid roller I could find 12-700-8 Comp 224 at .050 525 lift. I am running jesel bushed lifters
I personally think the factory Delphi lifters are stronger at the axle then the linked $500 lifters. The weak point on the first link bar lifters is the axle skirt . There’s no support at the front and back of the lifter roller, which will flex and eventually snap off a fork.
Seen plenty of link bars break also. nothings totally foolproof with rollers
a big help Jacob... i made the mistake of running LS7 lifters with upgraded BTR springs with their "Torque Cam" in my freshly rebuilt LM7 5.3 that i installed in my 2001 Suburban and had excessive lifter noise... i thought i F'ed up on my base circle measurement so i checked it again... low and behold my base circle measurement was perfect at 7.325" for a .0075" preload and 7.400" pushrod... it was so damn noisy i ended up running the 7.425" pushrods and it quieted down a bit... i talked to Joe at Johnson and he made clear that the LS7 lifters have .150" of plunger travel which made perfect sense as to why my lifters were so noisy with those heavier springs... since there is no way to change lifters without pulling the heads i ran some Liqi-Moly "Valve Quiet" and they quieted down a bit more and im just gonna live with it rather than go another .0025" longer pushrod... ... my finding - the BTR springs are way too damn heavy for the LS7 lifters, hence the excessive lifter noise... either run stock springs (the BTR Torque cam is an "NSR" cam) or throw down for the better lifters like Jacob is saying... i will probably end up building another 5.3 or 6.0 for my Suburban and when i do i will probably pull the heads on this engine and run the better Johnson link bar lifter, or change the valve springs to a lighter weight spring since i use this car for towing my boat in the summer and daily driving, that will NEVER exceed 6000 rpm... cause let me tell ya, that lifter noise is fucking annoying! thank you Jacob for this video!
Always informative and love all yhe videos and content. I have learned so much. I was told that even if you rebuild or get a rebuilt or new crate LS 5.3 and higher that after 500 miles you should change the motor oil. Is this true?
Yes, new engines have a lot of debris that need to be removed. After the first 500 miles do an oil change. Break in oils also do not last as long as regular oil, so you need to change it soon as well.
good stuff man!
How about a video on piston deck height and calculating compression ratio...and which compression ratio calculator you use?
I've been using the diamond racing calculator myself. I saw a video where you were building an LS3 and showed piston deck height but how about a video on just that?
Good idea! I will add it to the list 🤘🏼
pppuuuhhhhllleassseeee!!! i need this rn for my engine lol
Very well said great videos 👍👍
Clear áudio and video,much appreciated man, keep up the good work man.
Great class 👨🏽🎓
Very informative video. The only things I would have liked to have seen added would be addressing lifter pump-up and also bleed down rates though that would have to address spring pressures as well.
Howard has some lifters that they advertise as variable duration taking advantage of bleed down to have shorter effective duration at lower RPMs improving drivability at the expense of ticking like solid lifters.
Rhodes lifters did this a long time ago. They were noisy as heck, I wonder if Howards has managed to fix that issue.
@@abeclarkatp2595 Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I had Rhodes cam and lifter set in a 334 stroker street build. Very noisy like you said. Did not play well with 80s technology knock retard. systems
Had to chuckle when you said those running good solids on the street are madmen, at 63 i'm running Isky Redzone .904 .180 offset solid rollers with HIPPO option and bushings in my 10.7 to 1 399ci. 1st gen stroker. This engine features 17* Brodix C-Series heads and is run up to 6500 rpm. I call it my forever engine. lol.
Thanks for the video! Why would you go to the expense of DLC on your lifters if they are riding in a bushed bore?
I am *still* not sold on roller lifters. I am very happy with my solid flat tappet engine. I keep my spring pressures low and performance is more than sufficient to go fast enough, but not so fast where I would have to run a cage.
Great video. Thanks for sharing!
Man o MAN are you good at explaining stuff.... I'd planned on going solid roller in a h/c/i ls3 but pft... not now, LOL ..
Does HP/TQ play a role in this decision? What about boost? Or does it all really ride on spring pressure and RPM?
I like the Johnson LSR tie bars i tried a set of the 500$ morel tie bars one would collapse after a couole engine revolutions had to pull heads again ordered the johnsons no problem since but they are pricey
Thanks learned a lot frm yo video nw I kw which lifters I need!!
I'm just finished watching three of your videos. Now I'm hooked & subscribed. I have 2 LS builds coming very soon. I Will need all the help I can get. One of them L33 all aluminum. DOD delete has to be done. My question. Where are the links. If someone what's to buy the parts u are using. Thank u
Every video I learn a little bit more knowledge 👍
Very helpful, thanks!
Anything needing close to 150 lbs I go to solid period. Esp higher rpm stuff
Less to go wrong. Get windage, aeration going on that hyd has more potential to break parts.
No idea why so many are afraid to run them
Excellent information. Thanks, just saying.
You've confused aeration with cavitation.
Cavitation is small bubbles that form in a low vacuum area. They collapse almost immediately. If they do form somewhere in the oil system, they don't travel any real distance. The vacuum bubble just collapses and can cause damage to nearby components.
Aeration on the other hand always exists in a running engine. As oil returns to the sump it gets mixed with air (blow by gasses actually). The pickup is at the bottom of the pan to hopefully pick up the least aerated oil, but it's not perfect. All running engines have aerated oil and I've measured as high as 40%! That is the concern with a hydraulic lifter. Normal oil is considered incompressible but heavily aerated oil is quite squishy.
The Johnson link bars don’t have a standard travel. They are all reduced travel. IMO 85% of people wouldn’t need the Johnson St lifters especially since they would have to take the time to measure every lifter. Also the llsr stuff is the best of both worlds
Thx....nice little education for some of us
Old school question: GEN 4 LS4 454 Chevy Big Block Corvette, Daily driver streetcar. Keeping the exhaust as Corvette did a decent job with the flow. Limited hood clearance for intake choices. Maybe aluminum heads and EFI in the budget. How is a roller cam conversion accomplished in this Big Block beauty?
retrofit lifters roller cam.
I really appreciate all of your tech articles and engine builds. Than ks for taking the time!
Regarding the tie bar lifters... I am not a big fan of the plastic trays in my Gen V LT1 build. It seems it could be a weak point that I would rather not encounter. Can I run the tie bar lifters in my Gen V LT1 engine? I cannot seem to find any info to support my request.
Yes you can!
I only use Chinese lifter. Used them for 47 years, zero problem on my red dragon.
From what I have read the gaterman lifter does have pressure fed oil to the axle on drop in
Learned alot, thanks
Excellent!
This was a great video
Thank you!
Interested information. I have a couple of money pit bikes that use the ls style lifters I been told . For me lifters are just a maintenance item . I replaced them before they fail or try to . I run the limiter in the lifters. Seems to work OK . When I was a kid I ran solid lift roller cam in my 302 chev . I never had any problems with them . I think it was isky. There is something to be said about checking lash to see if there is a problem with the valve train
Cam Motion LLSR for the street???
That's the way I'm going. But I don't plan on putting more than 2000 miles a year on the street with a 248/264/112 Lsa. Some limited track time to. Am I asking to much?
When you find the mad man I want to meet him too!!!😄😄😂😂😂
Here I am
I installed axle oiling short travel lifters in 2019 because we were already in there. To reduce multiple pr lengths and KISS, next time I'll opt for adj rocker arms. Any opinions on the Yella Terra 10mm vs Crower? Nervous about AL rocker arms, but also want minimal weight over the tip.
Good Info bro …
When you used Aluminum Conrods ?
What are your thoughts on the jhonson 2110 lifters? Currently running them in my ls3 drift motor. 7k rpm limiter
They are good lifters. But you still have the risk of the plastic tray deforming and the lifter turning.
I’m building a 1800-2000hp build. I plan on running a solid roller setup with the Isky needleless rollers. It will be a street strip car. Methanol on race day and 93 pump gas on the street. Does that qualify me as a mad man lol
Appreciate all your content.
Currently building a road course car for fun. Not sure how competitive I’ll get with it. More just want a purpose build car this time around. Have an ls1 I plan on throwing a 4.8 crank and rods in. Hoping to spin it to around 8k. Curious what would you recommend a lifter/spring combo.
Car will prob end up with a fast 102 on the 853 heads, or possible 243 heads if I decide to have a set ported. Trying to figure out a cost effective ITB setup for the car - but they all look to be 2500-3k.
Any input would be appreciated. Read a lot of old forums for people destroking the ls - but can’t find many who actually followed through with the build.
Give us a call or shoot me an email.
Don't bother destroking for 8000 rpm, you'll lose power everywhere and gain very little, if any reliability. 3.622 stroke is just fine up to and even well beyond 8000 rpm.
I bought a C6 Z06 with a Lingenfelter 660HP package. It's all motor and has a Comp Cams custom hydraulic roller cam shaft. Since I don't have the original owners contact info, I'm left to assume the lifters were upgraded to hydraulic over OEM. The heads were replaced with Lingenfelters brand as well. Would you safely say the lifters are definitely upgraded like I'm thinking?
Doing a solid roller twin turbo LS right now. Howard is grinding it as we speak. My lifters are 1400$. It’s all going into a 2400 pound Porsche 911.
Solids are where its at no worries
I put the slow leakdown lifters in my LQ9 truck build. 80 hours later and sore back... i measured up my pushrod lengths. Havent had issue with slow leakdown on street. Major concern was oiling to rockers / valves. Been closely monitoring. Took valve covers off and they look great. Had to change wall thickness of pushrods though to maintain adiquate oil metering. Should i have put them in a truck... no. But got killer deal on the lifters.
I’m running a similar solid roller in my street car. We made 802 on the engine dyno. Let’s meet! :)
Explain why the afm lifters are a bad idea. or the flaws of the valetrain in the ls/lt line. how to eliminate fail points like plastic lifter trays (which may get covered in this video, i just sat down to watch.) anywho thanks for all the content, def love watching and learning. my car just went in finally and they're looking into my engine now.
Edit when i purchased my texas speed afm delete kit for l99 i went with... " Johnson Lifters Link Bar Slow Leakdown Race Hydraulic Roller Lifter "
did i do a good? :) (this was back in june)
For clarity on this comment, I have a collapsed lifter which means someone left the afm on. When i went to look at what blowers fit my l99/ls3 application i stumbled on the TVS2300. if u look it up you see that they say you can leave afm in your car for lolMPG. If my collapsed lifter has told us one thing, its that when you start turning hp, AFM / VVT can hurt big cams. meaning mixing and matching is more difficult right?
@@MAD_BST If we use the knowledge shared in this video, it sounds like you should be changing to link bar style lifters for your setup to eliminate the problematic trays. As far as I know there are no AFM link bar lifters made so an AFM delete must happen. As far as VVT is concerned, based on my limited personal experience and various oyther YT vids, VVT is only an issue with performance camshafts because it changes piston to valve clearance. As long as the clearance can be maintained the cam phaser will work and can give you nice hp/tq curves (more avg power over the rpm range). In my experience, I have never seen a VVT, cam, or lifter failure that was not caused by piston to valve clearance. If you are running stock pistons and valves with a perf cam (more lift&duration) normally the VVT will need to be modified to a shorter travel (or possibly "locked out") to maintain piston to valve clearance.
Nice, conscice and very informative 👍
Im trying to gather info to isolate a 'very random/rare' knocking noise in a worked LS7 ..
Comes and goes .. and every cylinder came up 200psi statically tested ?
#4 is suspect re Plug and disconnecting injector on #4 isolates slight popping in the left bank ..
#4 Compression good ..
Does that isolate lifters ? Or Can they fail at Idle and perform ok on Cranking tests ??
I wonder 🤔 for the tap is intermittent, but the slight 'pop' is on #4 (proven by injector isolation)
Any thoughts appreciated 🇦🇺
I just watched William Tetro's Nova make 2700hp on a LSX twin turbo using a hydraulic roller cam. If you were to guess what style of lifters he is using?
Dont know if i missed it but what brand are the solid lifters?
Holy Christ where are you paying $400 for those Delphi lifters? You are getting ripped off badly lol.
$400 GMPP lifter are pricey and to me look like far East products.
Not made in the US.
You refer to the Johnson hydraulic lifter having an additional feature of "axle oiling", that helps with higher RPM/spring pressure applications. How does the Gatorman lifter achieve its lubrication? I assume it has a similar plunger setup with a certain amount of travel.
The Gaterman lifter is oiled from splash oiling from the cam bearings, lifter bores & crankcase.
We recommend upgrading to axle oiling lifters if valve spring pressure exceeds 500# over the nose of the camshaft.
Most 7,400rpm, 420# valve spring engines do not need this upgrade.
@@JacobVillemain thanks. I don't need the upgrade, the Gaterman lifter is already an upgrade from stock and I will be well under the operating limits you listed above. My engine will still be a beast for my purposes!
😭😭 where can I buy these gaterman bar link ls style lifters 😭😭
"If ur doing streetcar stuff woth these... I wanna meet you. " 😂
What do you charge to prepare a dart Big M block for the 904 lifters thanks nice video
Great explanation sir. Any idea how much a guy can bottom out a long travel lifter? L
Why would you want to?
Which oil pump to offset axle oiling oil pressure loss? Can you successfully change cams without pulling heads when using the st2126lsr? If yes, method?
I run the isky needleless solid 904”s I think 🤔 it’s the redlines I’d have to look at my invoice but great job explaining hydraulic vs solid roller you guys seem to take pride in your engine builds love watching the videos when I get time.
Is thier any way I could send a picture to you. I was recently looking into my 03 Cadillac CTS and saw something odd.
Take a look at the metering disc in the Johnson lifter , you'll be shocked at how flimsy it is . Also look at the length of the pin the wheel rotates on . Come back here and tell us what you find .
I have a 6.2 LS 3 with a stage three Texas Speed cam, lifters, and springs. It floats at 6200 RPM. what can I do to reach 7000
J The GOAT
Hi, my cam is low lash solid .003-.005, wath kind of lifters need?
I've got the johnson 2116lsr short travel lifters. If I had to do it all over again, I would've just gone with the Gaterman lifters. The short travel lifters are a little overkill for my build. I'm a bit freaked out now about measuring pushrods since I have less margin for error. I'll triple check and individually check all 16 pushrod lengths. Not sure if this is overkill.
How did this work out for you? I ordered ST2116LSR by mistake, wanting 2116LSR and i'm thinking about returning them, and going with the 2116LSR, or the Gaterman. Honestly I'm afraid i'm not skilled enough to get the precision into the pushrods i'll need.
@@NoMercyGTCS I wasn't even aware there was an st2116LSR version.....what is the difference? I haven't installed them yet, but I will definitely let you know how it goes. Long story short, I went with an ls heads/ performance guy who the forums raved about. I realized quickly that this guy was just a glorified salesman first. He kept tacking on parts for an "optimized build." I'm not too proud to admit that I have buyer's remorse. Since I went overkill for the top end of the engine, I'm going to send my block to Smedding for a stroker build.
@@NoMercyGTCS I just looked at the two different types. The ST version has less plunger travel, but still requires the same preload as the 2116LSR version. I'm a bit confused why different plunger travels wouldn't require different preloads. I don't know what that means. It's been a while since I've seen this video, I'll rewatch it.
@@FTsingos I hate to hear the buyers remorse. I think both version of these are great lifters according to what i've read, but the ST2116LSR has a smaller travel, .058 compared to .093 in the 2116LSR. Just have to pay real close attention to the measurements and probably order a custom set of pushrods for the application. I hear a lot of people really like Manton.
I've thought about taking one apart and seeing if I can make them short travel what do you think
Ehh I wouldn’t
Is anyone using flat tappet lifters today to avoid the weak lifter roller pins in todays 248/264 .700 lift 7600 rpm solid cams for street strip.
Can one avoid the crazy costs of a real solid lifter that can last!
I have been reading about this trend starting up but don't know the particulars. I had a 496 CID SS Chevelle with circle track valve springs that reved way over 7200 rpm run only on weekends. Street with little track time maybe 10 runs a year for 7 years before I sold it.
Is CamMotion LLSR selling parts that will only last a year or two with limited track time say driven at less that 2000 miles a year? I'm hoping for 3 or 4 years at least. But am I dreaming? Or would a 7600 rpm flat tappet in a LS do the job better? Any thoughts'
Thanks for sharing, its all about how fast you want to go and how fat is your pocket book!! I know cause im a Drag Racer!!😊😊
does high boost effect the limits on the cheaper link bar set?
Just a note.
LS7 lifters and the "Caddy" race GM performance lifters are not the same.
I heard people ran solid lifters on the street all the time back in the hot rod days, or are these different?
I still do no worries about higher rpm just spring it right
I can buy a set of Morel solid roller lifters for under a thousand bucks, that will outlast those Jesels
💪🏽💪🏽
Are the acdelco hi performance lifters short travel lifters?
Absolutely not.
.842 diameter LS
15👍's up thank you for sharing
I had a gentleman and help me out with my 565 and with my 985 lift cam on the intake and 907 on the exhaust he told me that I should do something with my lifters and I said what can that be so he come over and we took the motor apart he did something with the lifter and if I run a 540 oil the car would only run 9.06et really didn't care but the air temperature or even quality at that point
But when some pool would come and lay down some money and want to go for who can get there first on a heads up deal because he figured that it was luck that I would cut the good lights that I was doing I would tell him I need to change my oil I put a 2050 in there or a straight 50 weight oil then the car would run at 8:29 ET
I destroyed them lifters after 7 years of running on them when he told me I should take them out and rebuild them I didn't listen I was paying child support and trying to pay for a new house of my own life caught up to me now I'm sitting in a garage next to a car that I used to own that I sold and hope that it would never come back and now it's sitting in my garage and my son owns it LOL
Suggest an initial overview on solid vs hydraulic lifters. The talk about the details.
I’m looking to make about 1500hp to the tire running about 8k rpm or so. Would you run the short travel then?
Solids all day
Link bar all day
Larger axle diameter decreases speed is a , I'm dumb but they will believe me
A set of eight replacement lifters for an LS is $100 so 16 of them would be $200. And those are the GM LS7 style lifters
Good parts aren’t cheap, cheap parts aren’t good.
Yea I got some ls7 lifters once that were around that price they didn't last thru the Dyno tune. Got real ls7 lifters that were double that price and haven't had a problem for a couple years now. There's a lot of fake ls7 lifters out there
Beware of knockoffs claiming to be LS7 and are cheap.
I'm a mad man , hmm
Man if your making fun of country lyrics there are way more worse wines than that in most bro country songs
Why are the gaterman lifters out of stock everywhere?
Thanks for the video!
I put solid lifters in every car I ever owned. No joke
Does that include street cars or strictly race cars?
Great video on a rarely covered subject.
I was hoping you would cover more details on the short stroke, and solid lifters. What rpm will a johnson short stroke handle for a drift application? Would it be worth going to solid lifter for sustained high rpm useage? how often do you typically set lash on a solid lifter, and what are the downsides of using one on the street? Thanks!
sustained high rpm solids every time. Nothing internal to fail
I got you guys. But why are you spinning the engine over 7000 RPM. You can make lots of power below that and you will not being rebuilding all the time.
I guess most International guys must be madmen. Most DT series International engines come stock with solids haha.
my getterman lifters arent quit :( ... not to nosy but you can hear the valve train :(
What would be the ones to run on my 408 stroker LS with twins?