WHAT CAM RUNS BEST FOR THE STREETS?
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- DO A HYDRAULIC ROLLER RUN THE BEST OR THE SOLID AND PERHAPS THE PROVEN SOLID/HYDRAULIC FLAT TAPPETS?
Obtw, I get numerous requests for technical advice and if interested, tex me @ 626 203 2712. Half hour to 1 hour+ rates are available. Most calls go over as posted and it is ok. US Pacific time zone.
My go2 for a streetable sbc is 265` @ 50 / .630 solid roller with a composite distributor gear.
The best thing about a roller cam is it can open valves quick and hold them near max lift longer, therefore filling the cylinder more effectively!
All true! I like the fact that if you want good street manners, you can pick one or two sizes smaller and still make the same or more power than a flat tappet cam!
That is not 100% true.
The contact point on the lifter against the cam is not the same as on a roller. You can not just look at the profile on the cam and think that the area on the cam profile is the same area as the area on the valve lift curve.
The cam profile start to lift a flat tappet at the edge of the lifter and can make the valve to have higher ratio of the seat then a roller can.
The roller lifter will get side load that limit how steep the ramp can be.
You would think he know this things.
If you seen Japanese and German tappets they have a huge diameter so they can support near roller profiles.
FT opens quicker than Roller, It's a mechanical limitation
agree @@jerrynaslund3368
I run hydraulic roller lifters on the street but a short travel hydraulic roller, which in my mind is awesome. I am so glad that I found your channel, I thoroughly enjoy your videos!
Thanks!
I really enjoy your videos Ben your a breath of fresh air you get right to the point and you know what you are talking about thank you ☺👍
For anybody that might see this you can but hotrod oils with zinc from Lucas,driven ams oil and more you can buy 4falt tappets today for the price of one roller use light weight springs to break it in or take inner spring out if running duals, speedway also makes 1.3rockers for break in i use factory rockers with no trouble yet just check your lifters to make sure they have a crown on the bottom and I use jegs break in oil
Very informative video I have a 427 BBC with hydraulic roller that’s 99% street strip I just wanna make sure I can outrun the new mustangs and Camaros now days😂. Great Video
You can’t always be sure. Some of these new Camaros and mustangs are sporting 1000 wheel hp and more.
Hydraulic roller, narrow LSA, moderate duration and lift. Mine lived for eight years with no problems.
The reason for the larger lobe on the roller cam is because you are pushing on the lifter wheel at an angle. The flat tappet lifter is lifted from the edge with the point of the lifter so it actually moves the valve off the seat faster in the low lift. Flat tappet lifters will live if you use the right oil.
Today's emission sensitive oils lack zinc and old style oils was actually thicker compared to today's very light and sometimes zero weight lends itself to damaging flat tappets. I eventually ran diesel oil for those who prefer a flat tappet because it is affordable. There are some out there in spite of this emission friendly oils opted for drilling the lifter face and it helps as well but I have seen many and most do not offer this option.
@@benalamedaracing2765 I've had great luck with 15/40 Rotella diesel oil in my 332" stroker with solid cam.
@@benalamedaracing2765 In Ca I hear a lot of the good stuff is removed from Delo oils
If I wanted to run a solid flat tappet but the ramp rates or seat pressure wasnt crazy do you think running a 1.3 break in rocker would do it?
I hear the crown on todays lifters arent consistent causing many failures.
Only FT cams I had go bad were the xe type..fast ramp cams.
RUn many FT back in the 80s and 90s...Even Cheap PAW SSI regrinds, just used CHevy lifters which you cant get anymore.
AS Ben said one can not run a to aggressive profile with flat tappet as one can with rollers lifters. Back in the 60's & 70's if one wanted to run an aggressive profile within reason they would run mushroom lifters, that was back before rollers.
The oil I was recommended for my Doug Herbert engine and Herbert cam was Rotella T, it has the zinc in it still, and is well fitted for a big engine with a roller cam and rockers, by the way Chet Herbert invented the roller rockers to help prevent "binding" in the lifters.
Its a multi-faceted choice. I like solids - less mass for springs to manage. But for each [roller or flat tappet], street use puts an eye on rate of change [as in lift per degree of rotation] that is about more than area under the curve. There's a host of hyd/roller specs to like, but are hard to find simiilar grinds in in solid roller - I don't like going over 0.550 lift on a street motor generally speaking, and that's personal prejudice of leaning towards lighter spring pressures. I like Godbolds recent turn towards something I think makes sense: asymmetrical lobes purposed to be gentler in putting valves back on the seat. Not a new idea as much as one in need of revisiting with an eye on refining newer roller tech - back in the day, Detroit was putting out flat tappet cams with roughly 30 degrees [0.006"-0.050"].
I suppose a good test for flat or roller is this: do you want much more than 0.25xdiameter lift? For a 2.02" valve that's 0.505" lift. After that, valve job fades into the background, and bowl work takes center stage . Getting bowls ported adds a chunk to head costs beyond a good valve job.
Oils: we are on our own, therefore aftermarket needs to step up. The majority of formulations happen when car engineers roll up with a spec list, and where millions of units are going to be made, you bet oil companies make adjustments - I don't think its ever been any different. The public gets some info, but some is likely locked down inside an NDA as oil formulation often parallels engine development. In 1969, chevy put out 2.06M cars if I recall. That's clout. Zinc isn't gone, its just under 800ppm in newer oils, but know this: API spec leads to ASTM test numbers, also known as Another Stupid Test Method. The so called IVA & IVB tests [astm D6891 and D8350] call for an overhead cam type engine - the big guys are NOT testing/no longer use a procedure for flat tappet service ubiquitous to muscle cars. It can be done of course, but this is mechanical testing outside the realm of standard oil analysis service [that is primarily chemistry] a number of private companies offer. The number one job of oil being wear protection, challenge yourself to find a number or range put out by ANY oil maker for any of their offerings: is it good through 78,000 psi, 102,000 psi or what? Can we get at least a 5,000 psi range of quality assurance? Somebody needs to test, and publish, with an open and regular commitment because formulations change all the time. Call the results "awards", because... lawyers can screw anything up. Bronze=74k-82k, Silver=83k-91k, Gold=92k-100k, Platinum=101k-109k, and diamond=110k+
Try some hypothetical numbers, knowing a convex shape vs a plane produces a tangent. Say the contact patch [if oil were to fail] amounts to 0.080" square. That comes out to 0.0064 square inches. So... valve spring at max lift of 320 pounds force on a 1.5 rocker and the cam is seeing roughly 480 pounds force, unadjusted for geometry/flex/etc. Cam vs lifter is seeing near 75,000 psi. Oil is the most complex part of an engine.
Asymmetrical lobes like those in the 240-280Z inline 6 cylinders can be a problem when it is regrounded in basic cam profiles. What I had to deal with was installing a much taller valve tip on the assembly to get the geometry correct and decrease the noise! I will be firing it up soon and I was successful once and here comes another competition engine that needed more valve lift than what the design was capable off...Oils with Zinc is the lifeblood of any engine and I see many diesels today have issues with modern oils so we are all looking for the best there is and the one's that know while building racing diesels are very quiet.
Old Air Cooled VW's were Solid Flat tappet. Worked in a Shop when young and did 100's of adjustments. Not hard at all and you develop a technique. Had a stroker 2017 VW engine with a 460 lift 308 duration cam. 10:1 Compression tight quench engine as well. Ran on 91 octane. Stayed with a C6 Vette up to 80ph from a launch. Fun Car! They always said to do adjustments at all oil changes. Had a filter in mine so like most cars at 3000 miles. I never saw much of a change.
With a roller probably not have as much need to do adjustments because of their much lower friction. Ben is correct that valve train geometry has to be right. I always thought about a solid roller for a street car.
Thanks!
Good video, thanks for sharing such good information. Is it possible to use a hydraulic roller camshaft with solid roller lifters?
Seen it done but I prefer to use the lifter matching up to the type of camshafts. Perhaps at lower or mid rpms it is ok but we run competition engines and they must be correct for the application and no band aids or substitutions.
Old ford were stuck with mushroom lifters. 1/2 inch bores, lower power and less popularity made it not worth it for companies i guess. For longevity i was told to run solid rollers on hydraulic roller lobes. This was a while back time on big block fords llhydraukic lifters were causing issues. Not sure why
Yes swapping lifters I have seen but I prefer to run a solid roller lifter on a solid roller cam core.
Great videos Ben thank you, you are an inspiration to all of us👍🏻💯
Thanks sir!
Great stuff. There is nothing wrong with a good hydraulic setup. The latest Ford Performance 302H lifter is pretty damn good at high RPM. I'm using that w/ an Anderson N-41 and it can make a ton of power up top and still be dialed in for the street. I like the trick of getting some extra oiling on the distributor gear.
Peter, you and I are Anderson fans that is for sure! Thanks for your support and comment. :)
@@benalamedaracing2765 Remember those and when alphabet cams came out .
2nd guy I know of in the sfv to get that Ford Test pipe and FLow 40s back in the day. Man I thought it was mean lol (86 5.0)
@@gordocarboAlphabets weren't hard to beat. My f303 226@.05" and .510" lift 114 lsa was beat soundly by a ultradyne 223 which was 223@.05" 112 lsa and .565" lift. The advertised duration was less than the f cam. Car made 20 more rwhp and 12 more rwtq with the ultradyne.
@@dennisrobinson8008 Harold Brookshire was a genius and designed a lot of cams for them...and later Lunati.
The alpha cams from ford...probably made them with a gentler ramp for longevity and ease of tuning .
Probably for 100k + miles longevity. It was not hard to beat the alphabet cams with more modern and agressive lobes from ultradyne, comp cams, cam motion, etc. The alphabet cams had extremely gentle lobes. However each one could pass the factory ecu and run without tuning it. @@gordocarbo
Thick oil with the Zink is the way to go ,top fuel cars run strait 50or 60 weight warm it up good before you run it hard ,valvoline
I run Valvoline for my new start builds and no doubt they are good oils!
Use Driven Racing Oil GP-1 Synthetic Blend Motor Oil 20w-50. It has Zinc... Best is David Vizard's Extreme Oil though. Or you can use the extreme oil addative in your favorite oil also.
Flat tappet roller for me always.
Thanks for the tips!
The only reason I went hyd flat tappet is because I found an older NOS lunati cam and lifter kit for less than $100 that matched my cyl head 😅
Any way to save money is a winner for all of us on a budget!
Best explanation I have heard to date... Awesome Thank you.
Thanks as well!
Yeah, the zinc is more than just the zinc, the entire formula in the oil was superior and was a big commercial and nascar cash crop, once whomever took out the detergents, and not just zinc and all of the other good ingredients with zinc, you can find zinc additive formulas with those ingredients, however they may not be in the same formulated amounts and balances for highly functioning oils when it comes to solid flat and hydraulic flat tappet camshafts. Roller cams hydraulic or solid mechanical roller and or other engineered materials are the only way to go.
Agree sir.
Convex !!!
Oil issues aside, like he said flat tappets cant match the open and close ramps and that means everything, more power better mileage, better everything.
Yes sir.
I'm a Chevy guy and about 20 years ago I ran Lunati, Comp, and Isky hydraulic flat tappet cams in my street strip 1977 Firebird that had 4.56 gears and a 3500 stall converter. The engine is a 350 4 bolt main bored .060 over with 11 to 1 dome pistons. Cranking compression was 240 psi. The Isky cam was the best. Duration @50 is 244 degrees on the intake and exhaust and .525 lift with a 108 lobe separation. That Isky cam was badass and outperformed the others that were pretty close in specs. 750 Barry Grant carburetor with a Wiend Team G intake. Dart Conquest 200 cc aluminum heads. It was my main driver lol. It consistently ran 6.90 and 7.00 in the 1/8 th mile. I ran it once in the qaurter mile and it went 11.70 because the transmission was about worn out. Mr. Bill that car was so much fun to drive and I miss it. There's nothing like a good strong naturally aspirated 500 ish horsepower street/strip car. Now everyone is running boost. My how the times have changed. I parked the car for a long time and now I have a 1987 Monte Carlo SS to put that motor in. I love your videos sir.
Sounds like you had one mean engine in that car!
Every time I read a post like this, I feel like I’m reading one’s life story. He’s just talking about cam shafts, right?
An engine builder once pointed out that the rollers have much less advantage than many regular folks think, mostly friction and valve speed. Saying the flat tappet cam is sharper and the lifter base is flatter, while the roller cam is flatter and the lifter roller is sharper? So basically the difference is much more in the profiles that can be made using a roller design with less friction.
The science is way over my head, so I try to do what I'm told by the experts :).
Thanks for your input and today with lifts very close to an inch or more it is becomig apparent it is only a roller type than can survive the abuse.
David Vizard says LSA of 106 to 108 is best. Large LSA are giving away too mush power.
Yes he does and the exception is if you have a raised port intake/exhaust then the numbers take a very different direction. I will touch on this very subject specially if we are talking SC1, Yates or SB2 SBC then they start to look like turbo grinds! I will explain coming up.
@@benalamedaracing2765 Thanks, not trying to say you're right or wrong. Just trying to understand why there's two different thoughts on the same subject from highly respected engine people like yourself and Mr. Vizard. Looking forward, all the best.
@@joe-hp4nk @ user, let me clarify as to your confusion. The flow path into the engine of state of the art cylinder heads dictate that the over lap to be minimize because if we attribute "in line" "low port" cam applications to "rotated" "canted valve" "very high port angles intake and exhaust". The whole scenario will change as far as cam recommendations and applying those to these state of the art cylinder heads will result in exhaust pullover from an hyperactive exhaust flow! I explained this in my video of low port vs. high port and if I remember correctly I stated these new cylinder heads will require a camshaft more closer to a blower or turbo cam due to the propensity of them to over scavenge leading to dynamical pressure losses during compression going out to the pipes. This is the very reason Yates and SB2 all out heads have centerlines of 114.5 to as much as 120*. The theory presented would have rendered this engines ineffective so an out of the box thinking is required to use this latest innovations in cylinder flow. I did for many years and top cam people do as well... Hope it is clearer.
I feel street thinking should have been clarified instead of applying this concept in very advanced cylinder heads which require totally different cam timing and phasing.
@@benalamedaracing2765 I saw your video on raised ports, thankyou. I have a 114 LSA on my 454 BBC, would advancing the cam give me more overlap ie tighten the LSA? All the best.
Any suggestions on a hydraulic roller camshaft for a high output 327sbc motor I believe it is one of the 350hp variants . It is for a street car that will see daily driving duty in a lightweight vehicle
And on AMC, drill and tap the front cover to accept a small copper oil line/fitting and flatten the end a bit to spray the distributor gear 😉
That will surely help thanks!
great video. A LOT of guys have NO idea what you are talking about but There is a LOT of good technical numbers in here., That info on the moving the centerlines is something most guys never knew. It is not a "secret" but just not well known...Really good information
Thanks Gene!
You can still get oil for Classic Motors that has Zinc in it .. I want to upgrade to a roller cam for sure. I have a a 327 350 HP grind flat tappet hydraulic lifter cam. Yes 15-W-40 Diesel oil would be good on the street 10-W-30 oil or thinner on the strip ..
i still run flat tappets for costs . my reasoning up to 240 duration and 550 lift i don t think the roller is worth the switch over have beaten b 303s with the old a 314 hydraulic flat tappet cam in similar built motors
I feel the crossover point from my experience is about 224 on up but then again it all depends on what you are working on and what type of engine. I appreciate your comments because we all have different points of views and varied experiences out there in the real world. Thanks for your feedback.
@@benalamedaracing2765 THANK you for the video and your response learning much from your channel keep it coming , as a foot note on the subject my freind had a fox stang with a 9 second certified cage ,the motor was a 358 Windsor with ported old j 302 heads and a solid comp 305 cam ,t 5 and 456 gears streetable pump gas his best et was 10 .90 @ 126 mph always though that wasn t bad for old school
Thanks, always enjoy your experienced and proven perspective!
What about a Rev kit for SBC.
So far with the springs and rockers we stopped using them.
Nascar use to run mushroom flat tappet lifters and you use to get them from your chevy dealer. Can you still get them?
Best to call ISKY or Comp Cams and they will probably have them in stock!
Another great video, much thanks for sharing your knowledge. I’d like to try a street solid roller with a not so aggressive ramp profile but concerned about valve spring wear. I heard an old wives tale the motor needs to rotated occasionally or pressure taken off the rockers to reduce valve spring wear just sitting static.
I am not a metallurgist but I sincerely feel any spring compressed to near maximum for a long time has to lose some pressures as opposed to something at free height without much tension applied to it! That is a lot of pressure exerted for a very long time and somethings got to give specially like springs we run has 800-950# of spring pressures so there is no way it can hold that indefinitely without costs!
I agree heat and rpms are the main killers.
Why make the lifter heavier?
A lot of the valvetrain limitations are below the rocker arm meaning the valve and the retainers locks weights. Titanium lifters I have run and are very expensive and actually not needed perhaps over 8k or more like 8.5k+. Many high quality non titanium are in fact very light. As for pushrods they are bigger in diameter for high lifts to reduce bending and we are also not that concerned as long as it is severely heavy in design.
I'm blessed to be able to hear your lecture you are a true professional .
In today's words.....YOUR A REAL ONE! YOU ARE A OG OF THE TRADE! YOU'RE NO CAP AN KEEP IT 💯...
Thank you for your kind words.
I would buy every one of your books if you would pin them. They would be cherished in the Crawford household.
Thanks sir and appreciate your support!
I built the very first 427 Windsor kit Coast High Performance sold, I had a lot of Rod to cam clearance issues that I helped make them aware of but as a result I wound up running a Comp Flat Tappet because a roller wouldn’t clear the rod bolt ‘shoulders’ on the big end of the rod. Even with the little ‘broomstick’ 232/237 @ .050 hydraulic the motor makes plenty of power for my 2400 pound Cobra Replica.
I also had a set of the original Trick Flow 170’s that were fully ported to 185-190 cc and flowed as well at .400 lift than the stock TF’s did at .550. They now flow like the 11R heads out of the box and also ported the Motorsports Victor Jr so the motor feels like a big block FE.
The 427W is a really nice engine combo with fantastic wall to wall torque.
I’m really enjoying this site I’m learning a lot from your insight into the how’s and why’s!
Ported TFS 170 were serious equipment.
What power you make? Like 600hp?
No it only makes 537 @ 5500 and 560 torque with over 500 from 2700 through 5600, I built it to be a mega torque cruiser and since it only weighs 2400 pounds it’s not something I would really make 600 plus.
If I were going to do another one with a hydraulic roller with more lift and make another easy 40-50 but the rods the motor has won’t clear I’d have to replace them with steel rods. It’s all I need plus it’s a 10.2:1 motor that can run in the heat of traffic on the hottest summer day without issue.
A 66 427FE with a solid cam ( very few were medium riser side oilers were made for true street use, most were 428 PI motors that made 400 at best)
It’s plenty, a 3000 pound fox body would need about 650 Hp to have the same power to weight as my cobra.
@@dennisrobinson8008yeah the 170’s are really about comparable to an AFR 185 because the intake valve centerline to the head port flange is about 1/2 shorter, plus they are hogged out to slightly larger than the 11R.
This was before all the other heads came out but they do work really well for what they are.
I remember. The twisted valves and altered valve angles gave notable advantage to unlined valve heads at the time. And the combustion chamber shape. Those heads made a slight bit more torque and power than very good equipment. Ported they get to a tad over 300cfm by .500" and high numbers at .300 and. 400". They can make some real power.
For a street car, use roller lifters only and on the camshaft, at .006 start lift use 40 degrees max lobe on valve overlap. Flat tappets is a waste of time.
Comi California strikes again with the oil
This is why I left commiefornia.
Great information. Thank you for bringing it to us. Would you consider doing a video defining a-z how to select the best off the shelf camshaft Also a-z how to design a custom cam profile . Thanks for all of these great episodes.
Great suggestion!
In recent years there's been an epidemic or hydraulic flat tappet lifters failing real early. I have a similar experienced engine builder mentor such as Ben and he will not use hydraulic flat tappets anymore whereas in years past, that was all he used. Part quality in general has suffered with all the major companies moving their manufacturing overseas.
Thin or very thin oils with zero zinc and yes overseas flat tappets of questionable quality is all over the place!
Thanks Ben, Strait to the point and good info mate. 💪
Thanks as well Michael.
Mr Ben , you touched on lifters and my brother has a 408 windsor with a hydraulic roller ,205 afr heads and the cam is 250/260 .638/.638 cam. He has Howard's hydraulic roller link bar lifters but wanted a short travel lifter but couldn't find any when he installed the cam so he got the Howard's. They are loud like a solid, he is having to freshen up the engine and while it's apart wants to get short travel lifters. What do you recommend and will it help for rpm to 7200?
Adjust the lifters 1/8th from zero lash to it does not pump up @ high rpms. This way going 1/2 to more turns from zero pushes the pushrod too deep into the lifters creating pump up lifting @ high rpms specially with a lot of oil pressures.
Best Cam? The factory Cam. Thats why they use it. They've spent a long time figuring out what works best under all conditions.
Yes but factory spec falls far short when you are stepping it up! Today emissions are their number one priority.
On the galley plugs you can drill and tap the plug to fit a carburator jet, lock tight it in, and grind it off if needed, it only needs about a .020" hole roughly,
Why even do that? Just place a screw in galley plug with a small hole and that is it that will be needed! Nothing fancy or over engineering stuff.
I run a solid roller cam in my 1978 Chevy BIG10 big block truck and pull a 26 ft enclosed race trailer. Also I run the Comp Cams composite distributor gear.
Hqw much cam do you run in your big block?
@@benalamedaracing2765 it’s a Comp Cams 232* in 242* ex with .622” lift. I put a small cam in it because I pull a 26’ enclosed race car trailer. It’s a 557 ci, Dart block with Edelbrock performer marine heads with enconel ext valves, Edelbrock performer rpm air gap dual plane with 850 Holley.
Understanding what you're talking about it's like understanding The escoffier cookbook
Yes sir.
Your channel popped up and I was curious. I am so glad I watched, as I learned something and your explanation was so easy to understand. Liked and subbed and now I am looking forward to seeing all your content. Cheers and thanks from Calgary, Canada.
Thanks John for supporting my channel!
A lot of us guys just want to run a flat tappet on an old school sbc. I might have to run diesel oil from Arizona then.
I have run Delo 400 specifically for flat tappet engines and seen no negative issues even with high rpms in the 8K region.
So a car 350 cubic inches. Has a head that flows 210cfm@.4" and 260cfm@.5" lift. They have the equivalent to an rpm airgap and 750 holley double pumper. Camshaft #1 220@.05" .425" lift, 112 lsa. Camshaft #2 220@.05", .575" lift, 112 lsa. How much more power does Camshaft #2 make? I know if I swap a 210cfm set of heads in a similar combo for a set that do 260cfm at the same lift that a lot of power will be made. Perhaps 40hp,50hp or even 60hp additional. So how much more does cam #2 make lifting out to where the head makes 50 more cfm?
Everytime you lift the valve more without clearance issues with the piston should help! Specially if the heads still flow more with the higher lift numbers.
I know you have been around for a long time. So you would know of some of the ford 302 stuff. So you are probably familiar with a stock block 302 a cobra intake, stock cam, gt40 heads and exhaust. Or if they are carbed a performer rpm2 and a 650 dp. So you know of the situation where they replace the gt40 iron unported heads with an out of the box TFS170 and it picks up power and torque almost everywhere? The power increase is 30HP+, even with the stock cam.
gt40 tfs170
.200" 107 141
.300" 157 205
.400" 183 233
.500" 192 251
I'm looking at a dyno result of similar showing a 45rwhp gain in favor of the TFS.
@@benalamedaracing2765
Benny, do you recommend using a rev kit for the HR cam. Soon I’ll be switching to an HR cam on my Chevy three fisty (350). Thanks again for the great videos.
I do not see any reason why you would need them except if it is radical enough that the manufacturer advises to do so. I feel a healthy valve springs (dual) should do the trick!
Howdy Ben, what method do you use to set hydraulic roller lifters in a performance application?
Adjust it till it doesn't make any noise and go a half a turn more for the most RPM
I do 1/8 to 1/16 from zero lash and it has work good but will sometimes be somewhat noisy on cold starts. Going deeper risks the chance of lifter pump up at high rpms specially with high oil pressure from a high volume oil pump or tight clearances on the bottom end.
I run Castrol 15W 40 diesel oil in my solid roller 347. Has lots of additives, I hear people run AW46 Hydraulic oil in C4 transmissions. Thanks again for another great video Ben.
You must have heard that diesel oil will foam up with high rpms and that was not the case with one of my small blocks we ran, turning consistently 84-8600 shift rpms with no issues whatsoever!
@@benalamedaracing2765 I have never ran into the oil foaming either, I don’t rev it past 7000rpm, always has great oil pressure.
You sir are a blessing thank you
Thanks for all the Cam tips Ben.
Great informative video. Lots of good info in a short video. Oldsmobile V8s had the threaded galley plugs with the hole from the factory.
Thanks for the info!
Now days there’s a quality control issue in the processing of flat tappet cams …Hardening or cheap materials…either way they’re all junk
For me it was a flat tappet lifter. Obviously the cam was damaged when the lifter stopped turning but there was no excuse for the failure, other than a soft lifter. Cam break in went great, drove the car for about 50 - 60 miles and the last 2 miles it was obvious that something went wrong. I went with hydraulic roller
A guy I worked for a engine builder saying same thing. It's like companies don't care anymore.
Perhaps made in China junk.
Thank you for your time and info. I'm putting together our 2006 Ford Boss 302 going to 347 using the Comp Cams short travel hydraulic roller lifters for the first time. I'm going to have a solid roller cam set up on the side for that extra hot night scene action.
Sounds great and thanks for watching my channel!
It’s not the oil . I have a solid cam in my car for 20 years 250 dur at .050 with to days oil still good. It’s the crap cam and lifters they sell today. Buyer beware. I also just installed a crower solid in my 1971 mustang it’s still good two yers later.it’s the oil is nonsense 😊
You may be right! With many overseas junk sold we may never know...
Im putting together another cleveland for my cobra its going to be 12:5:1 static with a set of 3v CHI heads on it whats a good hydraulic roller for that on the street as im running a hydraulic flat tappet now but i did cut a lobe down on my first go round using mobil oil i switched to shella Rotella and its been fine so far with new cam but i want to get away from flat tappets. The car is 2,350lbs with 411 gears
It is best to call ISKY cams and ask for Rod @ tech and just mention my name. You can go a little big because that car is light and use short travel hydraulic lifters should help a bunch!
I run a .650 lift solid roller in my 357w, it's fun on the street especially with a 5speed
That should be an awesome combination!
@@benalamedaracing2765 yes sir its fun to drive and beat on it!! 12:1 pump gas with a little bit of octane additive makes it very snappy
After running my 399 sbc for 4000 miles this past summer with a BBC cam journal solid roller 260/266@.50 with 679/668 it required 0 adjustment with Brodix C-Series heads with offset lifters. It's 10.7 to 1 on 91 octane pump gas.
What heads and flow?
Excellent info.
What do you think about a solid roller lifters on hydraulic roller cam
I’ve seen people do that before and seems to work fine! The lobes on a hydraulic roller arent as aggressive as a solid roller cam and help the lifter last longer!
I do not like mixing parts because it usually becomes a compromise and a compromise is always short for the final intended purpose of its design!
More great information to consider! Like a Ford, my Buick 350 also has a distributor in front. I've heard of the hole in the galley plug trick, but hadn't considered changing the distributor gear for the new cam. Though I'm on a budget, I would feel a lot better using a roller cam since I've lost two camshafts in 10 years and have had lifters not spinning. But I do worry about possible lifter bore breakage with the more dramatic ramp of a roller cam lobe. Information is sparse on roller Buicks in the wild, and the few reading sources I find claim that I need to reinforce the lifter bores. Hopefully it's just a "full race" type of issue and less of a problem for a stout street engine. Perhaps I can get information from the Pontiac crowd, since their lifter bores look as thin as mine. Glad to have found your channel!
There are cam lobe profiles out there that are gentler and easier on the block and valvetrain. That might be one thing to consider in your build and talk to the cam engineers.
Check the lifter crowns prior to install and it will save you a lot of problems.
Recently I used dedicated diesel oil in my gas car since there was a good deal on a drum of it and I needed some diesel oil anyhow. Car didn't like it.
It's an old 2003 OHC V6 and yep it burned it. It usually uses 1.5 pints between oil changes which are every 15,000miles (which I knock over in about 10 weeks) - always has. I live in a rural area so knocking over the miles like this is normal, the hours behind the wheel is only about the same as city commuting anyhow.
This time it used the same amount but in half the time or 5 weeks, so when I put the recommended oil back in I was keeping a close eye on consumption - all is back to normal. Dual purpose diesel/gas oil of the correct grade is perfectly fine, dedicated diesel in gas engines might be fine for you but my old reliable wasn't happy, the poor 'ole thing.
I clicked on this one when I saw the high rev springs in the thumbnail. I Iearned about the lack of zinc the hard way. After properly breaking in my second flat tappet and losing it later I didn't GAF why I just went to a hydraulic roller. Later after a couple of collapses and getting bad ones new, I kissed off the hydraulics and have been happy with my Howards billet solid roller 110183-10 with 1.6 rockers and iron eagles with 237/245 @.050 with .592 topping my 1st gen .060 over with flat tops ever since. It's only a couple of degrees each more than the hydraulic, yet the vacuum and throttle response are both better with no worry of collapse. The only snag was they recommended Rev springs and though I installed them, it jacked my over-all temp a good 20 degrees. I had to put a hole though the bumper of the 87' Camaro I got it in to get air to the oil cooler mounted behind it to compensate. Real drag to do too man. I'm using a composite gear on the distributor with good results though, but part of that is even though I have a Melling sharktooth with a washer to jack it, I have wrist pin oilers (including one for the galley plug behind the chain) so warmed up I'm at only about 10psi on the oil pressure. Smokey said 7 psi a grand so going beyond that is just more wear and tear if you ask me. I'm running MPI on a single-plane World with an old non-progressive Holley Projection without the TBI injector pod. Got a 72v 250 amp Mars me-0913 bldc motor with a 8mm blower-belt driving a Paxton Novi 2000 @ about 1:3 giving me 5 psi on demand that's gone by each red-line, (which is OK since I'm shifting then anyway). I presently do haul around about 200lbs of AGM plus the100 lb unit itself; but lighter EV batteries are becomming more plentiful. Sure like the solid roller though.
I’m running an Isky HR in my Ford 306 per your recommendation many moons ago. It’s a 228/238@ .050, .520/.544 lift and 112 LSA. I put a 1.72 rocker on the intake for .559 lift. The Isky guy told me to install it straight up. Do you recommend advancing it 2-3 degrees for better low end? If so, will I lose some top end?
What is your actual compression ratio with that 306?
@@benalamedaracing2765 around 11.3:1 with .032 quench, old school heavy TRW domed pistons, heads milled .030, Performer heads 1.90/1.60 valves ported by you. I recall you said they flow around 280 cfm. Performer RPM intake.
@@evanarthur7535,I feel leave the cam @ straight up and for chain stretch maybe just 2* advance to compensate for wear and stretch.
I ran solid or hydraulic flat tap.for 40 year.s. new only 1 or 2 went bad . Bad but only hydraulic. Now run solid flat tap . Plus can't afford roller
Just make sure they are USA made lifters and not offshore junk!
@@benalamedaracing2765 comp cam or sealed power
I buy zinc additive from racing shop by case. I run royal purple zero problems
If it works for you good and keep doing it because experience tells you it is good!
@@benalamedaracing2765 i was running brad Penn but it was sold heard it wasn't as good. My engine was rebuilt in 2011. All Teflon coated bearings used high zinc gm break in oils.
Before i ran mobile 1 after 1700 miles and pulled it apart looked new. Put moldex crank cam it a hydraulic flat tappet. He also put diamond liquid coated lifters. After break in hardening cam put brad Penn in with extra zinc. 9 qt pan
Late 90s mobile 1 20 50 and 15 40 were better from what my builder says it like now. What is best conventional oil and synthetic in your opinion?
Ty for responding.
Do Yall build Chevy engine's? My guy is a diesel mechanic whom has a full machine shop in his very large home garage. He does mostly street stock circle track but was taught by the legendary Larry Spray from Illinois whom built a chey 4 bolt main 4 cylinder by cutting front 2 and back 2 cylinders off made everything else himself 13:1 on alcohol in a midget at least 375 400hp+ out of a v4 nothing have ever seen sounded like it just wicked fast could rev 8500 easy still pulling hard. Very cool.
Ty for any advice. Also what is best ways to add vacuum i heard steel canisters also silent electric pump with canister storage i wanted to put cam back that was in it he changed it for hp improvements. It's a 4 speed so no idle worries it's at 1150 sounds like 700 rpms. Ty. Contact information please looking to build a nasty 377 or something for next car. 67 Chevelle
Love your outstanding information and knowledge. Please any advice on oils and vacuum would be greatly appreciated.
Ty merry Christmas
Great video. What is the max lift you can go with a spider-dog bone type lifter retainer? I have a 302 stoker lift is .571 and .587... Thnx
I would run a link bar lifters at that level.
👍🏻
Ben when are you going to do a giveaway and do you sell merch
If you run flat tappet use lucas hot rod oil, or amsiol, and there is a generic race oil I don't remember the name. The zinc additive won't work cuz it don't blend well with now a days oils. Royal purple has a race oil but only has 1600 ppm zince. Lucas oil has 2200 ppm in zinc. Amsoil has 2000 ppm In zinc. You want at least 2000 ppm zinc in the oil for the tappet to survive. Lucas oil is 50 dollars for 5 quarts. Amsoil is about 70 for 5 quartz. This info is of 2024 January
I have been using AMSOIL since the mid 80's and some people were calling it snake oil! lol Nowadays just about anyone serious about oils in their engines has to have synthetics. Far cry from when we started...
I'm running Isky flat tappet cams and lifters, not having any problems. Use std. clearances and use a high volume oil pump along with a good high quality 5W30 modern synthetic oil. I use 5W30 Amsoil Signature Series, API SP. Quaker State Full Synthetic 5W30, API SP is a top shelf oil as well.
For the longest of time starting in the early 80's I started using AMSOIL and many at the time called them snake oil! I am aware of syn oils because it is all we use on turbine engines no mineral oil can ever equal.
AMSOIL 10W40 AMO product code, been available since 1972 why mess with anything less? I have broke in cams with that blend with 150 on the seat and 375 on the nose and at idle during 1st start on a used cam with new lifters. Solid Crane cam F-238 SBF that engine lasted ten years and i NEVER changed the oil 50,000 miles in a 351 Windsor that made 360 hp to the wheels in 2001 oh and to add I set the lash and when I eventually went to a solid roller around 5 years later the lash did not even change after 25,000 miles I learned alot but knew it could be done
I started using Amsoil since 1981 and have been very happy with their stuff. I also did not change oil on my 280Z and just change filter and top it off and the oil color comes back to like new. Being an aircraft guy I knew a true synthetic like Amsoil will outlast the engine because it can take more rpms that any automotive engine can dish out! Thanks for supporting my channel.
Been there done all that. Listen DYI at home
I'm running a flat tappet racing cam an would love to know what roller cam followers to use on it because I'm running a 1.6 ratio roller lifter on it now ,,,, It's on a v6 essex engine !!! Please give me some advice !!!
Best to call up Isky Cams in Gardena, California and they should be able to help you.
Hey Ben as far as the distributor gear on my 351C hydraulic roller cam, I have standard pump and used a bronze gear on Mallory distributor but some teeth sheared off and the cam guy said to use a steel or iron gear which I did and so far so good but the engine is together, so there is nothing I can do now right? That gear gets little oil huh?
Regarding oils my favorite with a wide index of 0w40 is LiquiMoly Synthoil. It tests very good and I have tested in my kitchen(don't ask how). I think it uses esters and not sure what else but on scar tests the metal pin sees almost zero wear with temperature and pressure. This is my goto oil for a heavier oil that makes your engine quieter, adheres to metal parts, etc
I used a steel gear and of course whatever oils you use and no problems? I would not change a thing... Whatever works for you I would stick to it.
Edelbrock RPM cam ,the comp cams with a 108 center lobe suck in my oppoin edelbrock pat mussi rolling thunder cams are 112 lobe separation
Like I stated above a lot of these high port aftermarket heads dictate a very different grinds and I agree with you on your observation. Sometimes a 112 advance 2* will also haul big bananas lol.
That's great to hear. I'm putting together a solid roller sbf. For my ranger. I've known guys in the past with no adjustment problems either.
As long as you have the basic adjustments done correctly everything falls into place...
For a sbc, drill, and tap the front oil galleries for screw in plugs. Drill a .040 hole in the top plug behind the cam gear. The pressurized oil will lubricate the timing chain and cam gear.
Yes that is a good tip and do it as well for the sbf. Doing a lot of idling will surely help the chain.
I have watch a few of your videos..do you mind me calling you to pick you brain ? I'm at the final build of my SBF stroker 414 cube inch build. id like your true impression of my build.. if you have time to give me your thoughts ?
My number is listed here and tex me and I will try to answer your questions.
Thanks for the info, im putting my first engine together, got a 72 360 my machinist said he'll get me to 9to1 compression, got a hydraulic roller cam on the way with the appropriate rocker and springs, can you give me any tips for when i get my engine put together and itll probably take me a month or 2 of weekends to swap into where my 225 was, can i put my cam in and heads on and not have it run for a month or two without the internals rusting on me, is that acceptable? should i lube it somehow to help it while its sitting, while im piecing it together before i fire it up, thanks
When the engine is assembled and primed you can store it wrap in a plastic bag will do just fine. Then pre lube or pre oil again before you fire it up.
Ok so I run a flattappet cam cause it makes more power,and not a little even David Vizard shows you the right cam and he was right.
From my experience, I had a 351 running in the Musclecar Nationals winning the championships and the only small block to do so. This said, I had a 302 with the heads off the championship winning engine and now sporting a hydraulic roller with the same lifts and duration.
The smaller 302 ran as fast as the 351 on flat tappets so that opened my eyes to what is really going on there! Today we have small blocks turning 9400-9600+ NA on 350# close and 1050# open pressures and only a roller will take that kind of stress.
Flat tappets are simple and workable only to a certain extent then the limitations shows up...
Convex not concave
Thanks for reminding me and I knew I was missing something there.
Obviously a high duration roller will look more agressive than a lower duration flat tappet but the dramatic difference in lobe profile isn't because of the ramp speeds or duration what have you it's the geometry of tappet to lobe. The flat tappet contact is large so the lobe profile is narrow the roller contact area is tiny so the lobe profile is wide... If you were to watch the tappets ride the lobe it would be very obvious why there shaped how they are, If you take 2 cams with identical lift, duration and ramp speeds whatever but totally identical numbers one a roller one a FT you will see the same dramatic lobe shape difference they won't be shaped remotely similar but that roller will look way more agressive but it isnt... Yet they functionally will be the same as far as valve movement. This exact thing drives me crazy and I see it all the time. If you think I'm talking nonsense call comp cams or Howards and ask them if the shape is just more duration and unless the janitor answers the phone they will say the same thing I did, but even the janitor may know.
There is no way a flat tappet will support the cam lift today which for competition is around .900 all the way to 1.100 with spring pressures of 375/450 close to 950-1000+ psi. One consolation is the advent of single springs which will support 9400-9600+ which I cannot even divulge now because I will be screwing myself. Also NASCAR did run mushroom lifters to circumvent the limitation of a flat tappet but had to be installed an upside down block on the stand! Definitely a non starter when you wipe out a lobe or lifter and it is out of the engine compartment back to the shop! lol
I have always stated that when you spec out a roller cam hydraulic or solid vs. a flat tappet it will show a little improvement on the dyno but the track says a totally different thing altogether. For ex. when I won the Musclecar Nationals in the early 80's in the evolving heads up format. I was the only one to win the nationawide series with a small block. That was a 351 then I built a 302 with all the same specs with the same heads and it also ran the same numbers! I had a solid flat tappet and Comp cams supplied me thru KPI Engineering a solid roller and it was a no comparison, the 302 out rev me and out horsepowered my 351. No way possible if I ran a similar spec flat tappet on this 302.
What can you tell me about The sbc 340292 turbo heads?
I have used them back in the day and was impressive even for todays build it will not be outperformed that easily!
Great Stuff Ben 👍Hope All is Well
Only you talk about drilling the tiny hole behind the distributor in the freeze plug. This is why I watch and rewatch your videos.
There will be more coming up.
My 259 Studebaker still runs with a solid flat tappet cam , I do use a grade 50 oil with a Zinc extra additive , no problems yet, spring pressure is 100 lbs. On the seat.
Yes I always used diesel oil in the ever decreasing number of zinc in modern oils which helps them survive for a long time!
Is it preferable to run a 1:7 lifter versus just buying more cam lift?
If you pick up perhaps it is telling you it wants more lift/duration as well.
I love your videos and all the tips and tricks you share thanks for the video Rick 427
Thanks for watching!
Good information thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Thanks as well Roam.
Thanks for video!
That explains why we keep those freeze plugs for the Fords everytime I do a teardown.
Thanks for supporting my channel!
What brand of link bar hydraulic roller lifters do you recommend for a HR retrofit setup in an older non roller block SBF?
I like those Howards Cam lifters with the link bars. I wonder if they are still available and I have always used them.
Thank you Mr Alameda !
What melo camshaft did you run to go 1030s
I ran a custom Isky a step up from my original Manley cams which is not available now a flat tappet. Duration @ .050 is 254/258 split with lift of .540 only back in 1981! This was also a flat tappet and now you can run better numbers with a hydraulic roller.
Need a recipe..... stck 351w block looking for 600hp. What roller cam gets me there? Thanks!
If you run solid roller make sure you have at least 11.5 compression and duration @ .050 somewhere minimum 258-265 max and lift about .650 would bring you there as long as you have a decent cylinder heads to do it with!
@@benalamedaracing2765 - Thank you fine sir, will look into those specs. Your a national treasure, stay safe and god bless!
Can a 1973 LS4 be converted to a roller cam?
If the lifter diameter is standard factory it can be converted to a roller. Call ISKY or Comp Cams for their product line.
i like your video its good info , how ever i a question , i have a stroker 331 ford sb i have a hyd roller in it now i want to change over to a solid roller and i want to run this on the street what do u reecommend for a solid roller ,
I have used a custom grind solid roller from Isky that I used in the video made 589hp with 11.5 compression ratio. .640 lift is workable for street use and the lash settles and do not need periodic adjustments not like the solid cams from the old days.
I have to see if I still have one more grind on my shelf somewhere in this garage.
You’re the best !!