It would be interesting to see the effects of different lengths of pipe between the check valve and the pressure reservoir. By this; i think you can "tune" the frequency of the check valve's open and closing, and affect the rate of pressure increase (maybe.)
Because the height difference is less between the inlet and outlet, the pressure head has been reduced. The outlet needs to be as low as you can get it. Adding a small weight to the valve might help.
I added a 8 in standpipe to my 1 and 1/4 inch RAM pump with a Driveline of 75 ft. Why head pressure is about 4 feet it seemed a little much for the system and my check valve would lock up sometimes. The stand pipe seems to have mitigated that problem. The output might be a little less however it's more reliable it's been running now for 4 days without stoping. Thanks again for the ram pump videos Seth always interesting.
I don't know if you are still testing these or not but here's an idea... Split the delivery line in two and use one side of it to feed back into the Drive pipe as it crosses a "T" joint from the waste valve. I suppose that if the waste valve fed back into the drivepipe via a Venturi Syphon from the split line on the delivery side it might allow for a closed-loop system. Despite never delivering the same volume upward as is brought down through the drive pipe it would always have enough head pressure and hydrostatic pressure to operate since all the water loss is at the waste valve when it's just being wasted instead of being cycled back into the system. A check valve near the end of this second delivery pipe just before it merges with the drive pipe would keep the bulk of all the water in the system moving in a cyclical manner. Delivering only some of the water upwards but also retaining most of the water in the system to drive it. So basically, I guess, it would start the cycle with the Ram and end it with the Bernoulli effect feeding right back into the Ram.
I built a 2inch ram pump to water the cows. With a few minutes of dam the creek with some rocks I have enough head pressure to make it work. I was surprised how much I have to throttle the discharge valve to keep back pressure so it stays running
You have to add weight to waste valve lifter according and proportional to your head pressure. I forgot the calculation formula. I did one of these in Collège final project 40 years ago.
What if you add an inline valve on the stack above the waist check valve? Can you use it as a return back to your source? Or perhaps if you use degrees like a 45 or instead of 90 going straight up above the waist check valve and return it to the supply. I'd love to see this demonstrated out of curiosity.
Interesting video. It would be very interesting to see the effects if we can connect the waste valve with the pressure vessel. Anyone got an idea of what would it result in? Thanks
IF nc farmer shared the same video I saw... they also had an additional check valve on the output side of the pressure chamber. I tested this extensively on my system because they were boasting higher volume delivery. I found the same results you did (as I expected based on head loss). I suspect either they were lying or maybe in their particular setup it worked (I think they were delivery to a relatively low-head elevation vs mine (72 vertical ft). Either way, results speak! I am glad you tested this as well as it's nice to see a second "It doesn't work for me". Keep up the great work my friend!
Was the ram pump blue in your link? This one was to a low delivery location. I did not see anything in the pump setup that would allow for a higher flow rate. You might actually get some results if you move a check valve around on the delivery pipe. I am not sure what location is the most effective. (close to the pump or closer to the delivery point.) I just know that in my tests a check valve on the delivery pipe can boost flow rate a little. Thanks for watching!
yes... it was from a channel named "something asia".. dont remember the something part... lol yep... blue/green colored pipe... was about a 4 ft riser off the pump. I agree... there's a possibility in the right setup it might give some gains.
ah ha. That is the one. Looks to me like there is a good bit of head pressure and not much lift. They might have been getting more flow because they had too much head pressure and not enough lift. . . No idea but we now know that it is better to leave that stand pipe off.
Nice videos!By extending the check valve head you seem to have increased the back pressure in the check valve.If you were to lower the check valve below the center line of the overall line i.e. below the inlet pipe will you not create a "negative" pressure situation that will give the check valve less resistance and so work better?The center line of the outlet will then be lower than that of the inlet line.Would like to hear your opinion.Just a suggestion though.
Try this. Right now you have the pressure tank mounted vertically. The check valve is also vertical? Below the P.T. As the water comes down the drive pipe it must make a 90 degree turn before it gets to the check valve. Have you tried putting the waste valve before the P.T. assembly and then mount the check valve horizontally, with the pipe to the P.T. in a gentle arc to the vertical? There is loss when the water makes a radical turn. That's why it's recommended that the drive pipe have as few turns as possible. The piping after the check valve is part of the drive pipe when the valve is open.(you could heat and bend the PVC) The delivery valve would be right after the check valve and as low as possible. I'm curious if it makes any improvement in pressure. However slight. The Rife pump I had was cast in one piece to create that gentle turn. I think it was a SU-15. 11/4". Maybe a 3/4" check valve and a larger size after that to reduce friction? Thank you
Following the comparison of the Ram Pump to a voltage doubler we can increase the voltage by gang doblers together. Have you considered having one ram pump directly feed another. If there is a parallel then this could cause a pressure increase giving you the ability to raise water higher.
It sounds like a fun idea. And I do want to test that this summer. The thing that I feel is going to happen is that the second ram pump is going to require too much water and will stop. OR the pressure built from the first pump will prevent the second waste valve from opening.
Can the waste water be plumbed back thru a one way valve to a tee in main feeder line recirculating the wasted water, or would one have to plumb a smaller pressure tank in a similar configuration as the pumped water to push the waste water thru the loop back? The Idea being to utilize all the water without waste,or will that violate the energy conservation laws?
I regularly watch your channel and have been working on ram pump improvement science for a long time.. Want to know the result of lowering the 50 feet height ( down) instead of up using a spring check valve leaving water downwards instead of upwards.
Just bought your 1.25 pump...couple of possibilities for use...the most extreme test...20 ft planned , 30 possible, of drop, needing to raise water 120 ft through 1500 ft of delivery pipe... Doable ?
Check valve at the bottom: you have a column of water holding the valve open. Check valve at the top: you lose too much velocity to head and the valve will no longer close. The end result is the same. You want to maximize the amount of energy in the pump, which means maximizing the PSI, velocity and/or head pressure. Adding a stand pipe to the waste valve robs energy from the pump.
What if you put that check valve at the top of the standpipe that you keep extending what would your results be then These are experiments that you can be trying as well
Why the tall pipe dosenot work? Is this because the preasure of water on valve? What can I do to make the tall pipe work? Can I put a heavy thing on the valve to against the preasure of water in tall pipe?
Thank you for doing this video. Really helps to understand the parameters for optimizing pumps. The video showed less pressure with a higher waste water stand pipe, but curious, did you notice how the volume of water pumped changed? Does more pressure mean more volume of water pumped? Thanks. Dave
@@LandtoHouse I've seen several videos where people were putting weights on their vertical rod waste water check valve and adjusting the length of the stroke. What I'm not sure about is if they were pumping any more water than using a swing check valve like you do.
Can you please test it to see what happens when you extend the waste valve? Like keep it still as low as possible but extend it longer like it is an additional output. Thanks.
In addition, is it possible to connect two ram pumps in a series connection? Like one ram pump downhill and the other one uphill to extend the reach and pressure towards the water tank? Thanks.
This past summer I worked on a ram pump that was broken. The fellow had a 2 ft long pipe on the waste valve extending further away from the pump. Have you were describing. It was causing the pump to bounce and actually prevented it from cycling. That being said I can still run the test when the weather is nice. Would be fun to learn the results
I haven't checked using ram pumps in series like that one of the problems is going to be that the second pump needs to have an open-air source to allow the pressure wave in both directions.
Bro i am from India, kerala,,& great work bro, & i have a question please answer me *How to use 100%of water without waste water using ram pumb Please dude
I am getting ready to test a concept design for exactly that! I am wanting to use the ram pump to increase my gravity fed pressure from my rainwater tank to where my off grid cabin will be built. I am thinking of putting a reservoir at the waste valve to catch the waste water and feed it into the out hose.
I wonder if say a person has a small flow spring( small roughly 100 gallon catchment) with about 20 feet of decent drop could one use one pump to transfer water to 30 feet above the spring to a tank and then build a means to capture the excess wasted water to pump that water to a second pump water to a second tank that feeds a micro hydro system and at the end of the system build a pond?
So, could I possibly run a drain tube off the waist valve to redirect waste water somewhere usable, like a lower garden pond? As long as I don't increase the head?
Can you run a hose from the waste valve back to the supply line on another Y check valve to make the system retain more water. My only available location gets very soft when it gets wet and I don't want it to sink too far as it settles.
Its a good thought but negitive effect . Another dead thought would be piping it back into the surge tank , good chance it may lock the Ram pump up or work like a venturi system increasing pressure with the Bipass feeding back into the surge tank . Thats all that pressure tank is is a surge tank .. look at that also the volume of air V/s the pressure. More Air more pressure .! Take a freon tank make sure no pressure in tank pull valuve should be a 1" pipe thread. Collar it up to the pump brace it up right and see if it makes any difference !
Try this place your ram pump over a 5 gallon bucket so that the wast water fills the bucket add a drain pipe to the bucket and have it supply a second ram pump 15 ft down hill then feed the out put of the se ond pump into the out put of the first
I realize your post is almost 4 years old, but I have a question regarding the waste valve water. Is it possible to salvage that water that would otherwise go to waste and route it into the distribution output; or at the very least put it somewhere else that is usable or harvestable?
Its not possible for the ram pump to send the water back to the source or put the water into the high pressure delivery BUT you can catch the water and use it further down hill.
The Waste valve pipe test must have a non re-turn valve on the high waste valve to cab the drive head pressure loss and to give the pump the capacity to pump through delivery and the waste valve the question is would the ram pump through the waste and the delivery if fittings were employed to facilitate this concept what do you thing ?
Thank you for doing that test. I dont have a good enough spring at the moment. The one i wanted to use is 1 gal every 5 min. My other spring i will have to pump water 1000 feet or more.
Maybe if the pump running little bit longer, I think putting the weight to the waste valve the cycle is becoming. slower and will build a higher pressure.
My pump took forever to start got it going and then it has erratic timing, going faster and slower then finally shuts off. Messed with my valves but cant seem to find a better setting anywhere. Where should i start the lines arent all connected as i wanted to make sure it runs before it gets glued together (PVC) so i imagine there are some trickling leaks. I think we are at 80 or 90 feet long. Only 1 or 2 feet of drop in the first 40 feet then about 6 to 10ft of drop in the next 40 to 50 feet. I have a comically large pressure vessel probably 3 to 4 foot long 3 inch wide for a 1 inch ram pump. I didnt care to cut the thing in half or cut a 1/4 off at the time i was too excited to get it together and in the creek. I feel like the problem could be in the pressure vessel being unnecessarily large or the drive pipe not being glued together. 3 45 degree bends in the drive pipe as well but it was trying to pump so i dont think the problem is the bends. Edit: after 30 minutes of googling things the only other thing i can find is the weight of my foot valve. Pumping really fast and the puttering out one source said to add weight as well as a few youtube videos of guys messing with weights on their valves.
Hi. I actually had a problem like this with my ram pump. It turns out that I missed gluing a pipe together. Because the ram pump is cycling with lots of force the pipe came lose just enough to let in air. It does not take much air in the drive pipe to stop a ram pump. I would get those pipes put together and see if that gets things going. The sputter you mention is most likely from the air in drive pipe. A fast pump is normally only when you have a very short drive pipe or the pressure wave is hitting air in the drive pipe and returning too fast.
Ok, so if making it taller is worse for head pressure, what if you actually create a drop that would go a few inches underground before the valve? Wouldn’t that increase the efficiency?
It seems that with a messy intake like an open spring, a lot of air gets in the line, so slowing it down with back pressure would give the air more time to escape back out the intake.
For pulling water out of a spring I recommend using a 5 gallon bucket just down from the intake. This allows you to seporate the silt and air from the water. Pull the drive pipe from half way up the bucket. ua-cam.com/video/baD9KH3i6es/v-deo.html
Out of curiosity, what if you were to use a smaller diameter stand pipe? The water flowing through it would certainly have increased pressure, but would the water within the smaller volume stand pipe have enough hydrostatic pressure to prevent the system from functioning? Or alternately, could the drive pipe be a larger diameter to increase hydrostatic pressure on the ram pump to overcome the hydrostatic pressure of the stand pipe?
From my understanding hydrostatic pressure is based on the atmospheric pressure on the water. This means that the size of pipe standing vertically does not matter. The pressure is the same. So no matter what size you make the pipe it will have the same limiting effect.
Hello Mr, I would like to ask for instructions regarding this hydraulic pum and I have succeeded in making hydraulic pum. I want to ask again, Water Expenditure from the check valve is Pretty Good The pressure, and Why isn't it used to be a water lifter from a depth of 20 meters ...?
Typically the weight of the waste valve is the limiting factor for Lyft. This style pump tops out at 50 meters. This requires 7.5 meters head pressure.
Why would youh want to add anything there? If you add that pipe on the output it would be no problem. At the same token the head is 3 ft, so why couldn't you have a3 ft vertical pipe for input and vertical 5 ft for output and stick it in a 4 ft pond and it should work to circulate pond water? I noticed you keep saying 15 ft long pipe 25 ft long input pipe, 3 ft head. The length of input pipe doesn't matter?
This was a question from a viewer. The addition of a pipe on the waste valve reduces the input head pressure. The drive pipe length does matter! The delivery pipe length is the one that can be very very long.
What if you submerge the ram pump into a lake or sea to use the overhead water as the intake and then have a hose or pipe from the pump and up above sealevel and more. Will it be able to pump the water above sealevel ?? Or will the output valve ble closed all the time ? Can that problem be solved with another valve ? Regards from Tommy in Norway
Using the ram pump in a stagnant body of water does not work. Going down does increases the head pressure but also the hydrostatic pressure. These two are equal and opposite. So the ram does not work.
How about doubling the size of the waste valve of the other valve!!! You could also increase the size of your chamber to see if it would increase the pressure as well?
The issue with doubling the size of the waste valve is the pressure wave going to the pump is small and the wave that is going away is large. This mismatch makes the pump inefficient.
Have you ever tried making a multi-stage pump? Use the waste water from one pump to run a second, smaller pump? (I have not looked at your other videos, yet, so if you've already done this, just ignore me or post the link)
I actually have done that test. It did not turn out as well as I would like. Here is that link: ua-cam.com/video/umxcP4G3FXE/v-deo.html Its an older video.
Great videos. I have a question. Can a ram pump work with a vertical drive pipe or must is be slippery for 20'+? Please do a vertical drive pipe so I can see if it's worth the trouble of convincing the Mrs
That is a fantastic question. I will attempt to test that this week. Sometime ago I ran a ram pump from a 55 gallon drum with only a 5-foot Drive pipe. The hydrostatic water pressure in the drum is what drove the pump. Basically a vertical pipe would be similar to this. There may be some efficiency loss at the bottom if you have to bring a 90 degree tee into the pump
@@LandtoHouse I'm working in the confines of an IBC tote. Any magic you can make would be great. I have about 6" of water in the bottom as a sump tank and I have a return flow from another IBC fish tank next to it. It's about 800ltrs per hour flow through a 2" over flow. Would like the ram pump to pump at least 6" feet with enough flow to run through a trough with plants in. Aquaponics again I came up with a new design for ur inner tube. Maybe you could give it a try. I drilled a hole in the lid of a 750ml plastic water bottle and fitted a car tyre valve. Pumped it up to 2bar and it held no problems. I let the pressure out till I could firmly squeeze the bottle and then put it into a 4" chamber.
Are you trying to use the ram pump in a closed system? I find that because the pump is so lossy all of your water will end up at the bottom of the system quickly.
It can work but not well. Say you have 100 gallons of water to run a 1-1/4" pump. At best you will pump 10% of that water back to the top. So now you have 10 gallons from the 100. You can see how fast the water will be at the bottom of the system.
im trying to recapture the waste water back to the head spring this week. im guessing i will need to move pump to increase pressure first. i will document my outcomes on my website.
When you say head spring do you mean the pump is away from the creek and you want to take the water back OR do you mean you are going to pump the water back to the input of the ram pump?
we built a reservoir to catch the spring water at the spring source. the ram pump feed pipe attaches to reservoir wall. there is currently 3 feet of drop to ram pump. the other end goes up 20 feet roughly to house tank. the ram pump sometimes empties reservoir faster then the spring fills it. so we intend to see if we can adjust everything enough to return waste water back to spring reservoir. we can drop the pump giving it as much as nearly 12-15 feet of head if we need to. without actually increasing the rise to house more than a foot or two. lots of room to play with. thinking the stand pipe for waste water needs to be 3.8 feet high to allow it to gravity feed back to reservoir at current placement and we can afford to lose 6 feet of lift with current positioning. knowing that the lift will be reduced with each foot of waste water stand pipe. if we give more drop to pump then obviously it will need a taller stand pipe to reach spring reservoir. and we are using a T to give us access to the check valve as well.
you may want to change your waste valve out for something like a foot valve so you can adjust water usage: ua-cam.com/video/G1YoVNvzXGM/v-deo.html Hope this helps.
Actually its the opposite. The further you move the waste valve from the pump the less likely the pump will cycle. I was out in a creek this past year working on a pump and it would not start because the waste valve was almost 2 feet away from the pump.
from a physics standpoint you'd want the largest pressure differential you could get between the water and the outside of the valve. all this did was prove less head pressure is less effective.
If the waste valve is not there the pump is no longer a pump. The waste valve needs to be in place to allow the pump to cycle and create a pressure wave.
Could you angle the valve down as feed for a second smaller unit? I'm curious about feeding out of a tank but don't want to waste the excess so if the second unit would simply feed the waste back into the reservoir it should work id think. If you only used the chamber and a check valve on the second unit wouldn't it act like sn amplifier
I would like you to take a "3/4" ram-pump" with 3/4" supply pipe from a bucket and find out what pressure it will produce. Then use one or two sizes larger supply pipe from the same bucket and the same 3/4' pump and find out what pressure it will now produce.
I have tested change in drive pipe on pumps as well as pump size on a set drive pipe. The small drive pipe does not supply enough water volume to the larger pump to get the valve closed. Unless you have a great head pressure that moves a high flow rate. It is best to match the drive pipe size and the waste valve.
Of course for your sweet the valve will not close, the extension is holding to much back pressure to allow the valve to close. Yes the head pressure will need to be higher and the water source needs to be above the top of the extension pipe
Good question. This will actually stop the pump. The valve needs to hang open from gravity to allow the pressure wave a chance to slam closed. if the valve is facing down the pump wont cycle.
Watched a lot of your video's and enjoyed them. I was wondering what would happen if you used a larger tee and check valve. By my thinking with the larger check valve more water would flow at a greater speed before the valve slams shut creating the pressure wave. With the increased mass and speed there should be a corresponding increase in flow and pressure as long as the drive pipe can provide enough flow to slam the check valve. What do you think ?
how are you dealing with air dissloving into your pressure-vessel water? once that cushion of air is gone, your ram will be very loud and start to malfunction. i use a snifter valve on the drive pipe to draw in a small gulp of air when the drive water is at peak velocity, so i am always supplying just a few bubbles to the pressure chamber.
A couple other questions:: Would putting a short standpipe say six inches with a T on top so you can access the valve to start and run the pile off a distance to keep the area around the pump dry be feasible option? Also does the standpipe help reduce the sound of the valve clapping shut?
Yes... a T or 90 will work to divert flow away from the working area. A standpipe is to supply adequate volume to run the pump as well as dissipate shock waves to prevent them from traveling further up the pipe and causing "interference waves". The water wave flowing through a long pipe will start to counteract itself within the pipe if the shock wave is traveling too far. Hope this helps.
Well actually you want that shock to transfer as hydraulic pressure... noise is actually dissipation although you will get more noise with better action. But yes, to your point, you want that valve to close as suddenly as possible causing a higher pressure wave.
Using a small pipe with T on it is a great way to move the water away from the pump. It does keep a little sound down but also reduces the efficiency. Small trade off.
The stand pipe on the waste gate makes it even more inefficient because if you put a stand pipe the same height as your head height the water would not move. I am no expert at all but it seems the faster the water moves the more efficient the device will work....... so what if you speed the waste gate up? Maybe add a 45 instead of a 90 going to the waste gate and see what that does?
You could actually achieve this with a 90 but over tighten it to be toward the side and then you could “fine tune” the waste gate by either standing it up or laying it over
You are 100% right. This test was to prove to a viewer that increasing the height would reduce the output. I have a video from years ago showing how tilting the waste valve will allow the pump to operate with a lower head pressure or lower flow rate. It does however reduce the efficiency.
What if you reversed it? What if you put the waste valve below? The more I read about this, the more and more I'm convinced a motor can be built out of nothing more than using multiple RAM pumps linked in parallel.
What if you had the waste valve either pointed down, modified to work appropriately that way, or do a few 90 degree joints so that the waste valve is a few inches below, and parallel to the rest of the ram pump. Does that make sense? Or perhaps a combination of the two?
Oh I see. The first idea sadly does not work because the flap much fall open by gravity. The other idea does work with 90's to lower the waste valve but there can be a few issues. There needs to be a small water void at the waste valve so that the flap can drop. If you have the valve too low the flap hits water and does not close. Also the 90's reduce the flow rate of the water and can stop the pump.
Fair enough. I was just curious if enough of experimentation or ideas could come of this to warrant a revisit to this for a future video with this kind of a concept, perhaps not using 90 degrees but something more gradual. You get the idea.
@@LandtoHouse Thank you. I thought for some reason it would be the opposite. Since it seems like the weight of the water BELOW the valve, would increase the pressure needed to both, push that weight up, and to open the valve.
@@LandtoHouse By the same token, It seems that if you raised the level of both, this standpipe, and the stack, it would be moot. Because it would just even out.
Hey I have and idea for a test. So in this set up you have 3 ft of head pressure at the Ram. What if you dug a hole 3 ft deep and dropped the ram in the hole, would this dramatically increase the pressure going up hill?
Yes. The extra three feet fall would substantially increase the pressure to the outlet. The pit would need to be drained to stop it filling it up. This is standard practice, I.e. digging a lined pump pit. Another way to increase the available head of water would be to fill a header tank, locally feeding the ram pump, from a collection tank further up hill from the water source, again standard practice. Better efficiency would be to ensure the valves opened and shut far more rapidly. Papa Pumps use a Venturi affect, speeding up the water flow through the valves. The valves are more like thick ‘O’ rings and open/close far quicker than metal/rubber plate type valves.
@@maryalobo1287 As the ground you have chosen is sloping, running a drain pipe from the bottom of your pit down slope and back into the river (water source) will keep the pit water level down. The point you run the drain pipe back into the river will have to be lower than the bottom of the pit. If the slope is fairly steep the pipe will be quite short. Conversely, if the slope is slight, a longer length of pipe will be needed.
@@chrisnel5252 I meant when the ground is flat and you decide to dig a pit for the pump to increase pressure, how then do you remove the waste water from submerging the pump?
Ok, an OPEN stand pipe reduces pump outlet pressure. Now how about this?: 3' stand pipe, "t" with the inline having a removable cap to start the pump, side outlet connected to a 45, 4' pipe out of the 45, open on the outlet end. The idea being the angled down pipe should create a bit of suction(vacuum) in the stand pipe.
Yes I'd like to see that too. I think it should work as long the whole pump is on bottom under water to make the head, say 3m deep well should pump water upto about 21 meters height
It would be interesting to see the effects of different lengths of pipe between the check valve and the pressure reservoir. By this; i think you can "tune" the frequency of the check valve's open and closing, and affect the rate of pressure increase (maybe.)
Because the height difference is less between the inlet and outlet, the pressure head has been reduced. The outlet needs to be as low as you can get it. Adding a small weight to the valve might help.
I added a 8 in standpipe to my 1 and 1/4 inch RAM pump with a Driveline of 75 ft.
Why head pressure is about 4 feet it seemed a little much for the system and my check valve would lock up sometimes. The stand pipe
seems to have mitigated that problem. The output might be a little less however it's more reliable it's been running now for 4 days without stoping.
Thanks again for the ram pump videos Seth always interesting.
I don't know if you are still testing these or not but here's an idea...
Split the delivery line in two and use one side of it to feed back into the Drive pipe as it crosses a "T" joint from the waste valve. I suppose that if the waste valve fed back into the drivepipe via a Venturi Syphon from the split line on the delivery side it might allow for a closed-loop system. Despite never delivering the same volume upward as is brought down through the drive pipe it would always have enough head pressure and hydrostatic pressure to operate since all the water loss is at the waste valve when it's just being wasted instead of being cycled back into the system. A check valve near the end of this second delivery pipe just before it merges with the drive pipe would keep the bulk of all the water in the system moving in a cyclical manner. Delivering only some of the water upwards but also retaining most of the water in the system to drive it. So basically, I guess, it would start the cycle with the Ram and end it with the Bernoulli effect feeding right back into the Ram.
Sir! What will happen if we have contacted the valve at the top of the stand pipe?
What about a ram pump, pumping into another ram pump. Or maybe adding additional pressure tanks some how.
Great Video. I was on the edge of my seat waiting to see a new discovery. So glad you ran the test. Need more Ram Pump! :-)
It worked out just as I thought it would. It would have been fun to get more pressure out of that stand pipe but in the end physics wins again.
I built a 2inch ram pump to water the cows. With a few minutes of dam the creek with some rocks I have enough head pressure to make it work. I was surprised how much I have to throttle the discharge valve to keep back pressure so it stays running
You have to add weight to waste valve lifter according and proportional to your head pressure.
I forgot the calculation formula. I did one of these in Collège final project 40 years ago.
What if you add an inline valve on the stack above the waist check valve? Can you use it as a return back to your source? Or perhaps if you use degrees like a 45 or instead of 90 going straight up above the waist check valve and return it to the supply. I'd love to see this demonstrated out of curiosity.
Interesting video. It would be very interesting to see the effects if we can connect the waste valve with the pressure vessel. Anyone got an idea of what would it result in?
Thanks
IF nc farmer shared the same video I saw... they also had an additional check valve on the output side of the pressure chamber. I tested this extensively on my system because they were boasting higher volume delivery. I found the same results you did (as I expected based on head loss). I suspect either they were lying or maybe in their particular setup it worked (I think they were delivery to a relatively low-head elevation vs mine (72 vertical ft). Either way, results speak! I am glad you tested this as well as it's nice to see a second "It doesn't work for me". Keep up the great work my friend!
Was the ram pump blue in your link? This one was to a low delivery location. I did not see anything in the pump setup that would allow for a higher flow rate. You might actually get some results if you move a check valve around on the delivery pipe. I am not sure what location is the most effective. (close to the pump or closer to the delivery point.) I just know that in my tests a check valve on the delivery pipe can boost flow rate a little. Thanks for watching!
yes... it was from a channel named "something asia".. dont remember the something part... lol
yep... blue/green colored pipe... was about a 4 ft riser off the pump. I agree... there's a possibility in the right setup it might give some gains.
Yup that is the same video.
I thought so... It was a pretty unique video... Had me excited until I tested it. :)
Got it: ua-cam.com/video/IZWCLmk0U6k/v-deo.html&pbjreload=10
ah ha. That is the one. Looks to me like there is a good bit of head pressure and not much lift. They might have been getting more flow because they had too much head pressure and not enough lift. . . No idea but we now know that it is better to leave that stand pipe off.
Nice videos!By extending the check valve head you seem to have increased the back pressure in the check valve.If you were to lower the check valve below the center line of the overall line i.e. below the inlet pipe will you not create a "negative" pressure situation that will give the check valve less resistance and so work better?The center line of the outlet will then be lower than that of the inlet line.Would like to hear your opinion.Just a suggestion though.
Try this. Right now you have the pressure tank mounted vertically. The check valve is also vertical? Below the P.T. As the water comes down the drive pipe it must make a 90 degree turn before it gets to the check valve. Have you tried putting the waste valve before the P.T. assembly and then mount the check valve horizontally, with the pipe to the P.T. in a gentle arc to the vertical? There is loss when the water makes a radical turn. That's why it's recommended that the drive pipe have as few turns as possible. The piping after the check valve is part of the drive pipe when the valve is open.(you could heat and bend the PVC) The delivery valve would be right after the check valve and as low as possible. I'm curious if it makes any improvement in pressure. However slight. The Rife pump I had was cast in one piece to create that gentle turn. I think it was a SU-15. 11/4". Maybe a 3/4" check valve and a larger size after that to reduce friction? Thank you
What would happen if you move the waste valve to the top of the stand pipe you included ?
Have you tried to find a way to recoup the wastewater
Following the comparison of the Ram Pump to a voltage doubler we can increase the voltage by gang doblers together. Have you considered having one ram pump directly feed another. If there is a parallel then this could cause a pressure increase giving you the ability to raise water higher.
It sounds like a fun idea. And I do want to test that this summer. The thing that I feel is going to happen is that the second ram pump is going to require too much water and will stop. OR the pressure built from the first pump will prevent the second waste valve from opening.
Can the waste water be plumbed back thru a one way valve to a tee in main feeder line recirculating the wasted water, or would one have to plumb a smaller pressure tank in a similar configuration as the pumped water to push the waste water thru the loop back? The Idea being to utilize all the water without waste,or will that violate the energy conservation laws?
What about dropping the waste valve down below the rest of the pump...see how that works...enjoy your vids keep it up...
I regularly watch your channel and have been working on ram pump improvement science for a long time..
Want to know the result of lowering the 50 feet height ( down) instead of up using a spring check valve leaving water downwards instead of upwards.
Just bought your 1.25 pump...couple of possibilities for use...the most extreme test...20 ft planned , 30 possible, of drop, needing to raise water 120 ft through 1500 ft of delivery pipe...
Doable ?
God bless you see sir, i have learned from you how to do this
I would say that you want to raise the check valve to the top of the ram pump so that there is no head pressure above the check valve
What if you put the check valve at the top of the stand pipe?
Same question
That will actually reduce the head pressure as well.
Good idea
Check valve at the bottom: you have a column of water holding the valve open.
Check valve at the top: you lose too much velocity to head and the valve will no longer close.
The end result is the same. You want to maximize the amount of energy in the pump, which means maximizing the PSI, velocity and/or head pressure.
Adding a stand pipe to the waste valve robs energy from the pump.
I noted that this ram pump is configured differently than the ones you sell. Does this change the effectiveness of its operation?
I ran a few tests with this design. It is slightly more efficient to have the waste valve on the other side of the pressure tank.
What if you put that check valve at the top of the standpipe that you keep extending what would your results be then These are experiments that you can be trying as well
Why the tall pipe dosenot work?
Is this because the preasure of water on valve?
What can I do to make the tall pipe work?
Can I put a heavy thing on the valve to against the preasure of water in tall pipe?
Thank you for doing this video. Really helps to understand the parameters for optimizing pumps. The video showed less pressure with a higher waste water stand pipe, but curious, did you notice how the volume of water pumped changed? Does more pressure mean more volume of water pumped? Thanks.
Dave
Yes the addition of a pipe on the waste valve reduces the head pressure of the pump. Less pressure means less flow rate.
@@LandtoHouse I've seen several videos where people were putting weights on their vertical rod waste water check valve and adjusting the length of the stroke. What I'm not sure about is if they were pumping any more water than using a swing check valve like you do.
Can you please test it to see what happens when you extend the waste valve? Like keep it still as low as possible but extend it longer like it is an additional output. Thanks.
In addition, is it possible to connect two ram pumps in a series connection? Like one ram pump downhill and the other one uphill to extend the reach and pressure towards the water tank? Thanks.
This past summer I worked on a ram pump that was broken. The fellow had a 2 ft long pipe on the waste valve extending further away from the pump. Have you were describing. It was causing the pump to bounce and actually prevented it from cycling. That being said I can still run the test when the weather is nice. Would be fun to learn the results
I haven't checked using ram pumps in series like that one of the problems is going to be that the second pump needs to have an open-air source to allow the pressure wave in both directions.
Bro i am from India, kerala,,& great work bro, & i have a question please answer me
*How to use 100%of water without waste water using ram pumb
Please dude
I am getting ready to test a concept design for exactly that! I am wanting to use the ram pump to increase my gravity fed pressure from my rainwater tank to where my off grid cabin will be built. I am thinking of putting a reservoir at the waste valve to catch the waste water and feed it into the out hose.
I wonder if say a person has a small flow spring( small roughly 100 gallon catchment) with about 20 feet of decent drop could one use one pump to transfer water to 30 feet above the spring to a tank and then build a means to capture the excess wasted water to pump that water to a second pump water to a second tank that feeds a micro hydro system and at the end of the system build a pond?
you must put the waste valve at the end of the pipe to try to make it wasteless and the waste cand be "recycled" in the inlet pipe
So, could I possibly run a drain tube off the waist valve to redirect waste water somewhere usable, like a lower garden pond? As long as I don't increase the head?
What happens if the waste valve location is higher to the snifter valve?
Can you run a hose from the waste valve back to the supply line on another Y check valve to make the system retain more water.
My only available location gets very soft when it gets wet and I don't want it to sink too far as it settles.
Its a good thought but negitive effect . Another dead thought would be piping it back into the surge tank , good chance it may lock the Ram pump up or work like a venturi system increasing pressure with the Bipass feeding back into the surge tank . Thats all that pressure tank is is a surge tank .. look at that also the volume of air V/s the pressure. More Air more pressure .! Take a freon tank make sure no pressure in tank pull valuve should be a 1" pipe thread. Collar it up to the pump brace it up right and see if it makes any difference !
Try this place your ram pump over a 5 gallon bucket so that the wast water fills the bucket add a drain pipe to the bucket and have it supply a second ram pump 15 ft down hill then feed the out put of the se ond pump into the out put of the first
I realize your post is almost 4 years old, but I have a question regarding the waste valve water. Is it possible to salvage that water that would otherwise go to waste and route it into the distribution output; or at the very least put it somewhere else that is usable or harvestable?
Its not possible for the ram pump to send the water back to the source or put the water into the high pressure delivery BUT you can catch the water and use it further down hill.
What if you add a pipe to the runoff water going downhill and creating a siphonlike negative pressure????
The Waste valve pipe test must have a non re-turn valve on the high waste valve to cab the drive head pressure loss and to give the pump the capacity to pump through delivery and the waste valve the question is would the ram pump through the waste and the delivery if fittings were employed to facilitate this concept what do you thing ?
could the pipe use the water for hydraulic syphon of some sort.
what if you put the check valve on top of the stand pipe rather raised valve instead of added pressure on the valve no back pressure on the valve.
Thinking to tie in the waist water in a collector then and tie it to the out put line?
Gravity to fed from waist water collector then a nother ram pump joined down stream a lot of waist water not being utilized
Thank you for doing that test. I dont have a good enough spring at the moment. The one i wanted to use is 1 gal every 5 min. My other spring i will have to pump water 1000 feet or more.
It was a good test. The ram pump can pump water that far no problem. It can be costly to install that much pipe though.
Maybe if the pump running little bit longer, I think putting the weight to the waste valve the cycle is becoming. slower and will build a higher pressure.
Although that is true it also uses more water with more waste valve weight. Sounds like the spring is not flowing much.
My pump took forever to start got it going and then it has erratic timing, going faster and slower then finally shuts off. Messed with my valves but cant seem to find a better setting anywhere. Where should i start the lines arent all connected as i wanted to make sure it runs before it gets glued together (PVC) so i imagine there are some trickling leaks. I think we are at 80 or 90 feet long. Only 1 or 2 feet of drop in the first 40 feet then about 6 to 10ft of drop in the next 40 to 50 feet. I have a comically large pressure vessel probably 3 to 4 foot long 3 inch wide for a 1 inch ram pump. I didnt care to cut the thing in half or cut a 1/4 off at the time i was too excited to get it together and in the creek. I feel like the problem could be in the pressure vessel being unnecessarily large or the drive pipe not being glued together. 3 45 degree bends in the drive pipe as well but it was trying to pump so i dont think the problem is the bends.
Edit: after 30 minutes of googling things the only other thing i can find is the weight of my foot valve. Pumping really fast and the puttering out one source said to add weight as well as a few youtube videos of guys messing with weights on their valves.
Hi. I actually had a problem like this with my ram pump. It turns out that I missed gluing a pipe together. Because the ram pump is cycling with lots of force the pipe came lose just enough to let in air. It does not take much air in the drive pipe to stop a ram pump. I would get those pipes put together and see if that gets things going. The sputter you mention is most likely from the air in drive pipe. A fast pump is normally only when you have a very short drive pipe or the pressure wave is hitting air in the drive pipe and returning too fast.
Ok, so if making it taller is worse for head pressure, what if you actually create a drop that would go a few inches underground before the valve? Wouldn’t that increase the efficiency?
It seems that with a messy intake like an open spring, a lot of air gets in the line, so slowing it down with back pressure would give the air more time to escape back out the intake.
For pulling water out of a spring I recommend using a 5 gallon bucket just down from the intake. This allows you to seporate the silt and air from the water. Pull the drive pipe from half way up the bucket.
ua-cam.com/video/baD9KH3i6es/v-deo.html
Out of curiosity, what if you were to use a smaller diameter stand pipe? The water flowing through it would certainly have increased pressure, but would the water within the smaller volume stand pipe have enough hydrostatic pressure to prevent the system from functioning? Or alternately, could the drive pipe be a larger diameter to increase hydrostatic pressure on the ram pump to overcome the hydrostatic pressure of the stand pipe?
From my understanding hydrostatic pressure is based on the atmospheric pressure on the water. This means that the size of pipe standing vertically does not matter. The pressure is the same. So no matter what size you make the pipe it will have the same limiting effect.
do a test adding weight to the gate in the waste valve.
I do need to find out how to add weight to the swing valve.
Maybe a short stand pipe, about an inch or two long would be useful for deadening the noise of the waste gate?
This summer I hope to run a few tests to find a way to reduce noise. This idea is a good one. Thanks!
What if you raised the valve itself not just put an extension after it. Put it before the valve
Did you try it with the waste valve before the pressure tube?
I know this is a long time ago, But what if you made a water tower to catch the wastewater, Then ref eed into your input pipe?
what happens if you have the wast valve pipe drop down a hill to creat like a pulling force will that increase the pressure / flow
I don t think the valve would close
Hello Mr, I would like to ask for instructions regarding this hydraulic pum and I have succeeded in making hydraulic pum. I want to ask again, Water Expenditure from the check valve is Pretty Good The pressure, and Why isn't it used to be a water lifter from a depth of 20 meters ...?
Typically the weight of the waste valve is the limiting factor for Lyft. This style pump tops out at 50 meters. This requires 7.5 meters head pressure.
What about using a pressure tank from a well
Why would youh want to add anything there? If you add that pipe on the output it would be no problem.
At the same token the head is 3 ft, so why couldn't you have a3 ft vertical pipe for input and vertical 5 ft for output and stick it in a 4 ft pond and it should work to circulate pond water?
I noticed you keep saying 15 ft long pipe 25 ft long input pipe, 3 ft head. The length of input pipe doesn't matter?
This was a question from a viewer. The addition of a pipe on the waste valve reduces the input head pressure.
The drive pipe length does matter! The delivery pipe length is the one that can be very very long.
yeah but what if the wast value it self was moved up instead of leaving it at the bottom. lift the value it self up that 10 inches or more.
is it possible to cycle back the waste valve water to the entry valve with another pipe with swing check valve(s)
what if you will use small pipe to lessen the pressure going back down?
What if you submerge the ram pump into a lake or sea to use the overhead water as the intake and then have a hose or pipe from the pump and up above sealevel and more. Will it be able to pump the water above sealevel ?? Or will the output valve ble closed all the time ? Can that problem be solved with another valve ?
Regards from Tommy in Norway
Using the ram pump in a stagnant body of water does not work. Going down does increases the head pressure but also the hydrostatic pressure. These two are equal and opposite. So the ram does not work.
I have turned my waist valve into a directional flow pipe (burpi pump idea) so the waist water runs into garden pond. Lifted it about a foot.
What size valve, how long of a pipe, at what angle? Thanks!
What about putting the valve on top of the pipe
Is it reliable to use the waste gate as a delivery pipe
How about doubling the size of the waste valve of the other valve!!! You could also increase the size of your chamber to see if it would increase the pressure as well?
The issue with doubling the size of the waste valve is the pressure wave going to the pump is small and the wave that is going away is large. This mismatch makes the pump inefficient.
Good experiment
Thank you. This one was fun.
Have you ever tried making a multi-stage pump? Use the waste water from one pump to run a second, smaller pump?
(I have not looked at your other videos, yet, so if you've already done this, just ignore me or post the link)
I actually have done that test. It did not turn out as well as I would like. Here is that link: ua-cam.com/video/umxcP4G3FXE/v-deo.html
Its an older video.
Have u tried plastic check valves? Life expectancy?
What if you put the pressure tank on the stand pipe and used the shorter stand pipe on the waste valve ?
If the pressure tank is taller it does not really effect the pump. The air pocket is at the top of the pressure tank.
Great videos. I have a question. Can a ram pump work with a vertical drive pipe or must is be slippery for 20'+? Please do a vertical drive pipe so I can see if it's worth the trouble of convincing the Mrs
That is a fantastic question. I will attempt to test that this week. Sometime ago I ran a ram pump from a 55 gallon drum with only a 5-foot Drive pipe. The hydrostatic water pressure in the drum is what drove the pump. Basically a vertical pipe would be similar to this. There may be some efficiency loss at the bottom if you have to bring a 90 degree tee into the pump
@@LandtoHouse I'm working in the confines of an IBC tote. Any magic you can make would be great. I have about 6" of water in the bottom as a sump tank and I have a return flow from another IBC fish tank next to it. It's about 800ltrs per hour flow through a 2" over flow. Would like the ram pump to pump at least 6" feet with enough flow to run through a trough with plants in. Aquaponics again
I came up with a new design for ur inner tube. Maybe you could give it a try.
I drilled a hole in the lid of a 750ml plastic water bottle and fitted a car tyre valve. Pumped it up to 2bar and it held no problems. I let the pressure out till I could firmly squeeze the bottle and then put it into a 4" chamber.
Are you trying to use the ram pump in a closed system? I find that because the pump is so lossy all of your water will end up at the bottom of the system quickly.
@@LandtoHouse yeah in a closed loop
It can work but not well. Say you have 100 gallons of water to run a 1-1/4" pump. At best you will pump 10% of that water back to the top. So now you have 10 gallons from the 100. You can see how fast the water will be at the bottom of the system.
im trying to recapture the waste water back to the head spring this week. im guessing i will need to move pump to increase pressure first. i will document my outcomes on my website.
When you say head spring do you mean the pump is away from the creek and you want to take the water back OR do you mean you are going to pump the water back to the input of the ram pump?
we built a reservoir to catch the spring water at the spring source. the ram pump feed pipe attaches to reservoir wall. there is currently 3 feet of drop to ram pump. the other end goes up 20 feet roughly to house tank. the ram pump sometimes empties reservoir faster then the spring fills it. so we intend to see if we can adjust everything enough to return waste water back to spring reservoir. we can drop the pump giving it as much as nearly 12-15 feet of head if we need to. without actually increasing the rise to house more than a foot or two. lots of room to play with. thinking the stand pipe for waste water needs to be 3.8 feet high to allow it to gravity feed back to reservoir at current placement and we can afford to lose 6 feet of lift with current positioning. knowing that the lift will be reduced with each foot of waste water stand pipe. if we give more drop to pump then obviously it will need a taller stand pipe to reach spring reservoir. and we are using a T to give us access to the check valve as well.
you may want to change your waste valve out for something like a foot valve so you can adjust water usage:
ua-cam.com/video/G1YoVNvzXGM/v-deo.html
Hope this helps.
left you a comment on your video.
Did you get any good results from your recapture experiment?
Would you be able to increase pressure by extending the distance that the waste valve is away from the pump body horizontally?
Actually its the opposite. The further you move the waste valve from the pump the less likely the pump will cycle. I was out in a creek this past year working on a pump and it would not start because the waste valve was almost 2 feet away from the pump.
@@LandtoHouse What if the inline check was further away rather? The one that supplies the output.
from a physics standpoint you'd want the largest pressure differential you could get between the water and the outside of the valve. all this did was prove less head pressure is less effective.
Yes! This video was only in response to questions that had been asked. I just proved the concept in video format.
How about reducing the height?
sir can you explain the waste valve usage?.. if the waste valve not in that place what happend? recreate the air pressure??
If the waste valve is not there the pump is no longer a pump. The waste valve needs to be in place to allow the pump to cycle and create a pressure wave.
Does the height of the big pipe affect the output?
In this example the waste valve is on the other side of the one way check valve. At least that’s how it looks to me.
Try making the air chamber longer, higher that the small pipe.
I have a video showing the difference in large pressure tanks vs small ones. ua-cam.com/video/YYMMIDx1s1A/v-deo.html
Could you angle the valve down as feed for a second smaller unit? I'm curious about feeding out of a tank but don't want to waste the excess so if the second unit would simply feed the waste back into the reservoir it should work id think. If you only used the chamber and a check valve on the second unit wouldn't it act like sn amplifier
I would like you to take a "3/4" ram-pump" with 3/4" supply pipe from a bucket and find out what pressure it will produce. Then use one or two sizes larger supply pipe from the same bucket and the same 3/4' pump and find out what pressure it will now produce.
I have tested change in drive pipe on pumps as well as pump size on a set drive pipe. The small drive pipe does not supply enough water volume to the larger pump to get the valve closed. Unless you have a great head pressure that moves a high flow rate. It is best to match the drive pipe size and the waste valve.
Of course for your sweet the valve will not close, the extension is holding to much back pressure to allow the valve to close.
Yes the head pressure will need to be higher and the water source needs to be above the top of the extension pipe
Yes the pipe reduces the head pressure and in this low head setup it was enough to stop the pump from working.
what if you raise the air tank side?
what happens if the waste valve is faced down with the waste water line going down a few inches, does this help add pressure?
Good question. This will actually stop the pump. The valve needs to hang open from gravity to allow the pressure wave a chance to slam closed. if the valve is facing down the pump wont cycle.
ok, thanks. how big would a ram pump have to be to give the same rate of water that a standard water company provides?
Watched a lot of your video's and enjoyed them. I was wondering what would happen if you used a larger tee and check valve. By my thinking with the larger check valve more water would flow at a greater speed before the valve slams shut creating the pressure wave. With the increased mass and speed there should be a corresponding increase in flow and pressure as long as the drive pipe can provide enough flow to slam the check valve. What do you think ?
Ken Fischmann only works if you also increase the entire piping from your source....
do you get what I’m saying?
I feel like the stand pipe should be further up the line. Not on the waste valve!? But maybe I’m wrong
What is the influance of a thicker supply and/or delivery pipe, say 2" ?
Can these be set up to pump from and too the pond its sat in ?
And what if you add some length and drop to the output of the outflow? Instead of going up with a 3ft pipe go down!
how are you dealing with air dissloving into your pressure-vessel water? once that cushion of air is gone, your ram will be very loud and start to malfunction.
i use a snifter valve on the drive pipe to draw in a small gulp of air when the drive water is at peak velocity, so i am always supplying just a few bubbles to the pressure chamber.
I use a bicycle inner tube in the pressure tank. That way it always has a known volume of air. Seems to allow the pump to run for 6 months easily.
A couple other questions::
Would putting a short standpipe say six inches with a T on top so you can access the valve to start and run the pile off a distance to keep the area around the pump dry be feasible option?
Also does the standpipe help reduce the sound of the valve clapping shut?
Yes... a T or 90 will work to divert flow away from the working area. A standpipe is to supply adequate volume to run the pump as well as dissipate shock waves to prevent them from traveling further up the pipe and causing "interference waves". The water wave flowing through a long pipe will start to counteract itself within the pipe if the shock wave is traveling too far. Hope this helps.
You want that valve to make alot of noise. Slamming shut! Bang! That shock transfers to pushing water uphill!
Well actually you want that shock to transfer as hydraulic pressure... noise is actually dissipation although you will get more noise with better action. But yes, to your point, you want that valve to close as suddenly as possible causing a higher pressure wave.
Using a small pipe with T on it is a great way to move the water away from the pump. It does keep a little sound down but also reduces the efficiency. Small trade off.
The stand pipe on the waste gate makes it even more inefficient because if you put a stand pipe the same height as your head height the water would not move. I am no expert at all but it seems the faster the water moves the more efficient the device will work....... so what if you speed the waste gate up? Maybe add a 45 instead of a 90 going to the waste gate and see what that does?
You could actually achieve this with a 90 but over tighten it to be toward the side and then you could “fine tune” the waste gate by either standing it up or laying it over
You are 100% right. This test was to prove to a viewer that increasing the height would reduce the output. I have a video from years ago showing how tilting the waste valve will allow the pump to operate with a lower head pressure or lower flow rate. It does however reduce the efficiency.
I wonder if a stand pipe could be used to assist in opening the waste valve in lieu of a spring?
yes it can.
Instead of calibrating the spring, one can play with height of pipe on top of waste valve.
What if you reversed it? What if you put the waste valve below? The more I read about this, the more and more I'm convinced a motor can be built out of nothing more than using multiple RAM pumps linked in parallel.
I am not sure what you mean about putting the waste valve below?
What if you had the waste valve either pointed down, modified to work appropriately that way, or do a few 90 degree joints so that the waste valve is a few inches below, and parallel to the rest of the ram pump. Does that make sense? Or perhaps a combination of the two?
Oh I see. The first idea sadly does not work because the flap much fall open by gravity. The other idea does work with 90's to lower the waste valve but there can be a few issues. There needs to be a small water void at the waste valve so that the flap can drop. If you have the valve too low the flap hits water and does not close. Also the 90's reduce the flow rate of the water and can stop the pump.
Fair enough. I was just curious if enough of experimentation or ideas could come of this to warrant a revisit to this for a future video with this kind of a concept, perhaps not using 90 degrees but something more gradual. You get the idea.
Wow good job pro
Thank you.
Did you ever try placing the check valve on top of the riser?
I did. It actually had the same results.
So then what happens if you put the valve at the top of the standpipe?
Same result. Loss of head pressure.
@@LandtoHouse Thank you. I thought for some reason it would be the opposite. Since it seems like the weight of the water BELOW the valve, would increase the pressure needed to both, push that weight up, and to open the valve.
Because water wants to find "level" it goes back up the longer waste pipe and starts to slow down again as it loses head pressure.
@@LandtoHouse Ah. Ok, that makes sense! Thank you again.
@@LandtoHouse By the same token, It seems that if you raised the level of both, this standpipe, and the stack, it would be moot. Because it would just even out.
What happens if you put the stop valve on the top Of the stand pipe?
I think you would cancel the input head
Hey I have and idea for a test. So in this set up you have 3 ft of head pressure at the Ram. What if you dug a hole 3 ft deep and dropped the ram in the hole, would this dramatically increase the pressure going up hill?
Until the hole fills up with water.
Yes. The extra three feet fall would substantially increase the pressure to the outlet. The pit would need to be drained to stop it filling it up. This is standard practice, I.e. digging a lined pump pit. Another way to increase the available head of water would be to fill a header tank, locally feeding the ram pump, from a collection tank further up hill from the water source, again standard practice.
Better efficiency would be to ensure the valves opened and shut far more rapidly. Papa Pumps use a Venturi affect, speeding up the water flow through the valves. The valves are more like thick ‘O’ rings and open/close far quicker than metal/rubber plate type valves.
@@chrisnel5252 How do u drain water from the dug pit?
@@maryalobo1287 As the ground you have chosen is sloping, running a drain pipe from the bottom of your pit down slope and back into the river (water source) will keep the pit water level down.
The point you run the drain pipe back into the river will have to be lower than the bottom of the pit. If the slope is fairly steep the pipe will be quite short. Conversely, if the slope is slight, a longer length of pipe will be needed.
@@chrisnel5252 I meant when the ground is flat and you decide to dig a pit for the pump to increase pressure, how then do you remove the waste water from submerging the pump?
Ok, an OPEN stand pipe reduces pump outlet pressure. Now how about this?: 3' stand pipe, "t" with the inline having a removable cap to start the pump, side outlet connected to a 45, 4' pipe out of the 45, open on the outlet end. The idea being the angled down pipe should create a bit of suction(vacuum) in the stand pipe.
Interesting idea. I wonder if the bit of suction would close the valve too early and prevent the valve from reopening
That is a possibility. I may have to use the bucket method and build one myself to test that out. I don't have a stream nearby that I can use.
All I want to know is how the ram pump work to the deep well.
Yes I'd like to see that too. I think it should work as long the whole pump is on bottom under water to make the head, say 3m deep well should pump water upto about 21 meters height
It doesn't work that way. If it did you could use a ram pump submerged in a pond.