1516 A DIY Ram Pump - Maybe For Energy Storage
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- Опубліковано 19 жов 2024
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![Gravity Booster Pump [Proof Of Concept], Better Than A Ram Pump?](/img/n.gif)
We used a ram pump to lift water out of a 500’ canyon for 70 years. It was installed during World War II. Last year we replaced the propane generator that had replaced it with new solar panels. We would have bought another ramp pump, but no one makes them big enough anymore. Where we are so far from power, ram pumps and now solar power is the way to go. The water was used for livestock on our Wyoming ranch.
Green and Carter in uk still make them. Also Pappa pump👍
I'm reading the comments Rob... I think it may be time to start thinking about opening a New University for Applied Sciences. I've been here since you first appeared in the US. If I walked in today my first impression would be how modest you and Luke are. Obviously behind the scenes a huge operations of R&D, a History department, a Physics department and a Mechanical Engineering Department. I have been waiting for a video that will give us a walking and talking tour of the entire facility. I'm pretty sure we've had it but the mental image is a University is behind you. Make it happen ... your half way there.
I love applied science and engineering mate - to my mind it is the pinnacle of human creativity
The accumulator could be used, as you say, to store compressed gas for driving other energy harvesting equipment, but the outflow water could be pumped to a higher altitude and drive more powerful accumulators or turbines - a tesla turbine perhaps. I'm thinking the first stage could be water from rain harvesting, but there could be further stages limited only by one's maximum height limit.
I really feel it's time to make good on whatever applied sciences knowledge I already have, and grow that knowledge too, given the possibilities of black-outs and brown-outs this winter. I'm also looking at how to feed homemade generators into commercial inverters in addition to commercial pv panels and the like. Exciting, but driven by a certain amount of worry. Thanks for your channel and your insights, as always.
Search UA-cam for “land to house ram pump” and you should get a lot of info about ram pumps. He’s been working on them for years, sells them in his online store, and has freely shared his designs and testing results for those who would rather DIY them.
cheers mate
I'm always amazed at how people that think outside the proverbial box can combine different technologies and concepts to improve a design. It would be interesting to see what type of energy density and continuous power output could be achieved with combining a ram pump with a trompe. Great videos! I love learning new things. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the Mention, great video! 😁
There is almost something mystic about comming across one of those beasts thunking away to itself on a Lancashire Moreland valley to feed an old farm up t' hill!
absolutely mate
Thank you for doing your own take on the ram pump. Been down that rabbit hole a few times over the last years.
The one thing still missing for my prototype is the connection between my 1inch pipe and some kind of pressure tank
Awesome Robert 👍 I would love to see you make more videos on it!!
? have you searched under Water-Hammers and Cavitation Heaters/Steamers lately?
. The Trompe is a fairly new design when compared to Pressure Pumps And Primers.
cheers mate
Oh yeah, I remember Mr Teslonians setup. That was a very clever combination.
I agree
This could be used a bit to fill a tank for a water generator, will not be a perpetuum mobile but might increase the efficiency a bit, thanks for sharing.
Awesome! 👏
cheers mate
There was/ is a ram pump @ Finch Foundry museum in Devon, saw it some years back and the guy said it had worked for about a hundred years and only once in living memory approx 1922 did it freeze up briefly which stopped it working a good buy in its day🙂
yep - terrible business model though - only sell on every 100 years - probably why they fell out of favour with manufacturers lol
@@ThinkingandTinkering : Used to sell more, but probably not by much.
I have the good fortune to live only 45 minutes from finch foundry me and my son love it lol .
@@kelvinsparks4651 is the pump still there ( out the back) didn’t see it on my second visit approx 5 years back 😡 it had been improved ! but enjoyed my first better 30 years back with a chat with the family member who showed people around , the grave yard at the rear has interesting connection to the original owners before the current incumbent who I felt had polished it up a bit 🙄
@@pollywollydo im not sure if it's there to be honest , next time we there I'll have a look for it. The graves at the back are those of Quakers but it's all owned by the national trust now.
nice presentation! tip" wrap the tape in the direction of threading.
'Brain the size of a planet'...
nice tip - cheers
A properly wrapped thread is a thing of beauty. ;-)
Awesome! was looking forward to this one! hope you share the next steps, too
thank you
So many posebility ! Wow.
I kept looking around my house for that bird 😂
The technical diagram reminded me of the cross section of the great pyramid. Now that would be a fun theory to try and prove.
indeed it would lol
Nice build! Very interested to see how the trompe combo does.
cheers mate and me too
I have been wanting to integrate one of these in the house for the trompe aspect. But have been unclear on aerating the input, where best to direct the output and "waste" water. Looking forward to the next video.
cheers mate
Thank you
Thank you for sharing
Our farm water supply was once fed by a ram pump but got superseded by electric, though dad still has it squirreld away somewhere.
Did you leave the diaphragm / bladder thing in the accumulator on yours .
Do you have whole list of materials you need to buy please to make this?
Hi Mr Murray , it's been more than 30 years ago , but I worked on compressed-air energy storage.
I don't remember the mathematics , but we were very easily able to surpass the Energy Densities of every known battery at the time!
Compressed-air as an inexpensive form of energy storage is a very interesting solution to many problems...
Regards.
_
Thanks for sharing - I agree
Calculations have apparently said that compressed air can perform slightly better than pumped hydroelectric.
@@absalomdraconis Hi Jared , it's been decades since I last did the math , but I believe you are correct. In addition , compressed air is highly flexible in design as opposed to 'hydroelectric' , and again it can easily surpass the Energy Densities of all known batteries!
Regards.
fun... nice explanation too.
cheers mate
Next video on the subject please !
And list all the parts needed would be great .
Always informative. Always fun.
cheers mate
The Romans had a very similar device but not automatic.Some poor person had to operate the clack valve
I thought of these when you did the water flow generators, of course it cant be perpetual so you would need to augment the water supply but depending on the use that could be once or twice a day kind of thing, or you divert only a small amount of the water flow for the generation of power, they could be very useful in rainy climates
I would think so - cheers
@@ThinkingandTinkering you could also use grey water - people tend to use water at a fairly constant daily rate.
Yeah Ram pumps have also cought my attention. We can do more with ancient technology than with all the polluting modern stuff
agreed
@RobertMurraySmith Here we are a year after this and we are using more and more older technology. Love it!
Older technology.... it's just physics
Sorry I'd argue it's timeless
Awesome ad usual...
lol - cheers mate
We have had alot more wind the last few years, seem more wind every year, so I'm planning on building a wind turbine, in the 1500+ watt range. Or several in the 600-800watt range, that can produce 300watts in a light breeze, put them on a T shaped tower, with them at different heights, to get at least 3 turbines on a tower. Probably 5blades, and 40' minimum tower, a bit off base, sorry
an inprovement to the accumulator is to install a balloon in side it normaly filled with nitrogen but i guese air would do
air will do just fine - thanks mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering i was wondering about a membrane stretched inside the chamber with a magnet and coil like that nasa sterling engine.. figure the pulsing water hammer would kick that around nicely...
Wonder if the reciprocal action could also generate DC. (Also, first)
You got me! Great minds!
yes it would - and awesome lol
Just found your channel :D
Any updates on compressed air energy storage?
Ram pumps were not forgotten
I wonder if the valves could generate electricity. Sounds like a switch opening and closing. If that weight was a magnet, and you put a coil around it....
As long as you waterproof the coil and magnet, and you size them properly it will work.
It really depends on how much water flow you have going into it.
Keep in mind that if you put too much weight or pressure on the valves, the pump will cease to work and you will have neither a water pump nor an electric generator.
A very long time ago I saw a ' chick feeder valve " that had an externally controllable valve to keep water in a dish at a specific level. it had to be water tight, otherwise the chicks would drown. One of them modified so the float was a magnet and the valve used as one of the reciprocating may work to oscillate a magnetic field. It would most likely need some kind of extension to allow the magnet to move through a coil instead of a partial out/in motion as I have seen with some versions of mechanical oscillators trying to generate power. I wonder what the frequency would be at mains water pressure.
Have a water tank with syphon pipe with turbines in, leading to a ram pump to fill water tank up again = free energy...
@@danrawson8515
That depends on what you mean by "leading to a ram pump to fill water tank up again".
If you mean the water coming out of the tank will go back into the tank, forget that idea. Water passes through the ram pump as it works which means that the tank will ultimately run out of water. Much faster than you may imagine.
If you mean, have a river run ram pump fill the tank, then you will certainly get a measure of energy. That energy won't be free until after you have produced enough to pay off the equipment cost.
If you can set up a system like this, maker sure you run a pipe beneath the outlet of the tank down to the river. The water will end up there regardless. The difference is how much damage to the landscape it will cause.
@@scotttovey thanks for the reply I've been thinking about this idea for a while, if I can find a way to fill the first tank up again it is fee energy it may be one tank with a divider so the water can fall straight back into the same tank..(raising the siphon pipe as high as is possible) Will have to keep thinking to find a way.
As its a simple idea and would be easy for everyone to make themselves..
Imagine a set of ram pumps compensating the excess water of each other 😂
I know right.
The rampumps would use the new waste water and recycle it back to the previous resovior. This should be able to increase the volume efficiency
What happens if the whole setup is high enough to increase considerably relativistic effects between the top and the bottom?
Were you making a pressure vessel using the contents of that blue box to your right?
Old technology was created to solve a problem and not necessarily to make a profit
for sure - one of the reasons I love it
Ram pump water into a water tower, or elevated pond. Use the water from this to generate power, high pressure low flow, get around 110psi,and 1gph, haha, that kind of pressure would be awesome,. I was going to build more of a Gravity powered generator, basically a waterwheel with troughs on it like ferris wheel , fill the buckets or troughs, the weight pull the when down, it would spin very slow. With tons of TQ, about 80+pounds at about 4' off-center, around 10gallon buckets, and about 2.5 buckets working at once, connected to a gear to convert the approximate 5rpm to around 1,000 rpm, I'd probably build a pancake generator, 24coils, each side, on. 36" wheel, with the strongest magnets I can find, it should be in the 500ftlb TQ, at 3-5rpm,I'm sure someone could work out the power potential after the OD gearing, and the approximate final power output, from a 3phase generator, I would be amazed with 500watts, especially if I could get it 24/7, with the water flow , I may need to drop to 5gal buckets, and 8' from the axel, around 40lbs at the end of 8' Is very heavy, then multiply by 3-3.5, the larger wheel will allow more buckets to be used at once, it should be capable of spinning a 1200w generator at 500rpm surely, as long as I can get over 800watts I would totally ho for it,
Was the packet of Durex on the bench a little joke to do with ram pumping? ;)
hahhaha noticed it too, mb for some kind of diy valve or a gas chamber
LoL 😁👍!
Rob drops those kind of visual jokes in often enough. Such as the 'bull's-head/horns' trophy from a bicycle seat/ handle-bar combo on the wall. I've lost count of them.
lol - no I used them in video 1512 for a piston drive - now that as funny lol - and will be used later
I think this is "free energy" :D You might want to look in to "COLD BOILING WATER To power The Tesla Turbine" on tube channel called "Jeremiah" too...
Cuando vas a hacer el vídeo donde usas esa bomba de ariete como impulsar de una turbina?
How much Bar pressure does this cylinder can hold ? Please reply.🎉
Neet idea
cheers mate
Can you push a piston instead of compressing the gas
OK Robert I have to ask this is the second time I've seen you use imperial measurements for metallic water pipe is that a thing in the UK that for some reason you use inch measurements for water pipe? Is this one of those useless bits of information that I'm going to learn whether I like it or not? God I wish my dad were alive so I could ask him some of these questions
I do wonder if the shower heads that boost pressure work like this on a miniature scale
No, they don't.
I don't think so mate - think they just use an electric pump and small accumulator - but I am not sure
@Robert Murray-Smith I'm taking about just the shower head only. I doubt they do but I would be interested in how they make more pressure inside a tiny shower head
@@karlmyers6518 Smaller/fewer holes. Simple as that.
So a ram pump could be used to increase water head pressure to run a hydroelectric generation!
If a ram pump can pump up to a hill, why can't you make a loop and use it to turn a Motor.
Have multiple ones for more water power.
In regards to water loss from valve, that can be collected back down to bottom water source. No waste water.
The power output is dependent on how much water per second can reach the top.
you can have it turn a motor and you could make a loop but I am not sure where the benefit is - can you explain what you are thinking? cheers mate
The "waste" valve has to send the water to somewhere lower than the source, otherwise water won't flow through the system at all. If you don't have "wasted" water, then it just won't run. If you try to pump the "wasted" water back to the source, you'll always find that friction is enough to make it take more energy than you can get out of the "high" valve's water.
So if it is constantly going thump thump thump then it is creating an alternating force that could also be producing some forms of energy external to the actual water ...?
I would think so mate
any follow up video to this one?
So why did serve using a compressible If you used a tubing instead of that pipe a compressed air pipe higher than where you're gonna use the water it should work this the same shouldn't it
"Balloon Flame.... er Fame" :)
lol - indeed lol
Would a ram pump work in the tidal zone on the coast, using the incoming waves, posbliy to pump water to a high water tower to drain over a water turbine or some other power generation device?
Maybe combine with a troupe device on the output
*Trompe, autocorrect strikes again
interesting to try tesla valvular conduits instead of flap valves, no moving parts,would it work?
The waste valve has to close very rapidly to create the hammer effect.
@@johnguest4525 yes but i think a fluidyne sterling engine would work very well as a pump using 2 tesla valvular conduits, im gonna try it!
What size of pump to feed an irrigation thank 150; feet
Thank You Rob - for your Info. from all u have said about super capacitors, Is it possible to make a 12 volt 2 farads supper cap? . let's say two 2"x 3" copper plates 2 mils thick. coded with acetone/powdered activated carbon mix. Sandwiched on one layer of magnesium sulfate solution soaked kitchen towel one mil plexiglass and another soaked kitchen towel. Would this work? If Not could you please head me in the right direction Thank You Again .
you can make a 12volt 2 farads supercap - but I wouldn't think how you suggested would do it.
@@ThinkingandTinkering I was amazed at that 1 cm square super cap of graphoil dipped in active carbon acetone mix. love that sincore LC102 cap tester you have. You used kitchen towel with neutral solution (zinc sulfate?) between the strips . It tested about 4 farads. ( unbelievable) I was wondering if you had sandwiched a piece of ---- mica - between the kitchen towel and solution, would that still give a 4 farad capacitance ? the breakdown voltage of mica is very high , Would 12 volts added to that 1cm graphoil setup with mica handle that ? My experiments ask for a flat plate cap with a 12 volt 2 farad capacitance . Thank You.
Pyrolosis and gasification together, a system to recycle plastic and burn trash. Could it be practical?
Only in your dreams.
tbh I would think so
Sorry, I was a bit curt.
Your idea has been studied a lot in many countries, it just doesn't work in real scenarios, the energy used/produced doesn't work; and unless you recycle at source (already done) the resultant mix of plastics is too unreliable to have any uses that are not better served with source polymers. It usually just goes; trash and/or burned. Some plastics, e.g. PET, PP, PE, can be re-purposed IF you can keep them very well separated and clear of other contaminants.
I've watched a video where Mr. Teslaonian did such a thing. It was very interesting; something like this in an intentional village would be much more efficient imo.
Biker, I've seen all the videos. I've been intrigued and think about it all the time. My question always is, "does it really not work, or are there forces at play that prevent it?" Much like the climate panic provocateurs.
@@PrivatelyHanging Under ideal conditions and the right engineering from start to completing a loop, it might have merit. But collecting, transporting, sorting, removing foreign matter etc would use more resources than it saved. Plus, if ANYTHING got back into the master-batch it could have big consequences, e.g. a small piece of slightly incompatible material in an extruded insulator could fail in a minor way but cause catastrophic failure later.
If people could reliably and easily recognise and sort different thermo-plastics, even then just one wrong piece would/could cause big problems.
Just burning the 'plastic' has problems of pollution, uPVC, ABS, various 'rubbers', fluorocarbons, etc. It's just not workable in the real world. At best incineration reclaims a tiny fraction of the combustion energy, but this never breaks even with the collect/sort etc part of the process. It does reduce the raw plastic going into the environment, but the method has to absorb the byproducts so it doesn't just change the pollutant form/composition for a different one.
If you go through the real logistics you'll see where the sums really don't add up.
It's a similar argument with re-usable ceramic mugs and disposable beakers (either polymer or paper),; in hypothesis one looks favourable over the others, but in practice it is way the other way.
Given large amounts of one type of plastic, e.g. uPVC windows/doors re-cycling can work, but for everyday mixed plastics (and all the other detritus, labels etc) it just isn't favorable, neither material nor environmental nor financially.
hmmm very interesting, I'm sorry i have to ask , why the condoms ? , lol maybe your going to blow them up the air from the device.
hmmmm, couldn't you just as easily use it to pump water into a tank at higher elevation and use that stored water for powering a water wheel ??
yep - lol - the love the simplicity - cheers mate
Sorry people for going into this particular subject, but , ram pump interiors look similar to the inside of the great pyramid..again, sorry..😅
its not a new concept however, your Blue & White Animation is incorrect - there in fact IS wasted water from the pump's priming cycle.
. what you have failed to mention is Where those pumps were located at - usually someone's flower bed. Easily hidden and ignored.
. . it is from that Basic Pump's Pressure Reservoir that the First Shock Absorber was experimented with back in the 2,500 B.C.'s
. I am also curious why Web Pages that "held such info and Building diagrams" are being hidden from the public lately.! I know they were there last month cause I Book-Marked them!
cheers mate
Water tank with syphon pipe with turbines in leading to a ram pump to fill the upper water tank...
free energy????
I don't think so - but give it a go
@@ThinkingandTinkering thanks for the reply.. the ram pump may not work completely as water loss but I'll keep thinking maybe using only one tank with a special design to keep water higher one side all the time.. where there's a will there's a way!
I was thinking of using a couple of ram pumps in series the waste out put of each ram pump turns a small turbine filling the next ram pumps tank and so it continues to the last pump which the last one have a additional electrical pump to pump waste water back into first tank. Also each ram pump smaller than the previous one in series. This should be close to a perpetual system. Also note the pumped water of all ram pumps to return to the first tank.
The Achilles Heel of all ram pumps is the appalling ratio of waste/delivered water. You need a steady stream of water going down the drain to gain a few drops pumped to a higher level. Sort of good if you have a fast-flowing creek running through your property, and don't need much delivery, but no good at all in any other situation.
chers mate
If the primary aim is to generate compressed air, you could use an electric pump to feed the tromp and collect and reuse the waste water.
Anyone want to explain the condoms?
Condoms on the workbench...
yep - used them in video 1512
@@ThinkingandTinkering For Only Fans? Just kidding. :-p I'll look up 1512 then :-p
'perhaps for energy storage' - how absurd. Any industrial scale storage would NOT generate the power from such a horrendously inefficient generator. And any home scale system would generate a few watt minutes of sotrage.
The fact that there has been no follow up video says it all. Its just not worth it :)