Philosophy Feuds: Freud vs Jung
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2018
- Sex, religion and envy - how Freud and Jung’s frenetic friendship tore itself apart
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In 1906, the young Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung received a collection of essays from none other than the founder of psychoanalysis himself, Sigmund Freud. When the two met in person a year later in Vienna, their first conversation lasted more than 13 hours, according to Jung’s account. And so began a collaboration that would blossom into an intense, albeit brief friendship between two titans of psychology. The duo toured the US together, giving lectures on psychoanalysis. They analysed each other’s dreams in depth. Twenty years his senior, Freud called Jung ‘the Joshua to my Moses, fated to enter the Promised Land which I myself will not live to see’. Their bond was so deep that at one point Jung wrote to Freud: ‘Let me enjoy your friendship not as one between equals but as that of father and son.’ Despite their shared interests and mutual admiration, in 1913 their relationship abruptly ended. But what caused their dramatic estrangement? And which one can lay claim to greater influence?
Freud versus Jung is the second instalment of ‘Philosophy Feuds’, Aeon’s original series of short animations, each of which tells the story of a famous - or not so famous - spat, break-up, falling-out or fracas. More than just revealing the hilarious and all-too-human pettiness of the world’s greatest thinkers, ‘Philosophy Feuds’ is about the fascinating ideas behind each of these rifts - and how these ideas continue to matter today.
Director & Animator: Andrew Khosravani
Producer: Kellen Quinn
Writer: Sam Dresser
Sound designers: Eli Cohn, Ben Chesneau, Maya Peart
Narrator: Travis Brecher
#Freud #Jung #psychology #animation
You chose a winner...?? what the hell
Lmao exactly my thought. The animation was beautiful though.
He said he laid "claim to greater influence", which is true. Like whenever we talk of libido, we imagine it in a Freudian, not a Jungian sense
Yeah i'm kinda speechless at the end🤣
He mic dropped Jung back to his bad child corner where he belongs
@billsprestonesq Jung is for people with creative and deep minds, wouldn't expect everyone to get it ;) not that i agree with everything lol
Most people are no prepared to understand Carl Jung. He was ahead of our time.
It's normal Jung goes beyond what we believe he is more close to understanding thyself with the meditative arts, instead of rationalizing everything , even Buddhism was ahead of time for many people...
@@Minisynapse Is it that serious tho? hahaha
NoveltyFlux you’re the only one coming off as arrogant here sir
@@Minisynapse He never came across as arrogant, he was just saying it as it is. He managed to go through the classes and got the basics. Full stop. He didn't say anything about being better than anyone, and he even stated that it wasn't until he was in his 30's that he managed to gain a deeper understanding of Jung.
@@Minisynapse wow ...talk about a META comment. You win the internet in this regard. Goodness, gracious.
Freud is simply more famous, not more influential. In psychology circles Jung is considered to have made a greater long-term impact with deeper insights into how the mind works. He just doesn’t have the pop culture identity to back it up, such as the patient reclining on the couch as the Doctor asks questions. Freud is definitely more of a pop icon. The genius of Jung is being uncovered more and more all the time, as with research into the origin of language that shows his ideas of the collective consciousness and universal symbology to be remarkably prescient.
Tool has a song about him, 46+2 I think it's called
No scientific psychologist takes Jung seriously. At least Freud had a basis in neurology and biological evolution.
@@doublenegation7870 few scientific psychologist or mainstream psychologists take any of them seriously. Freud himself was pseudo-scientist.
@@confusedarmchairphilosopher who do they take seriously then?
@@confusedarmchairphilosopher psychology is not that serious, basically a pseudoscience in most of the cases
Coke daddy VS the magic man
The battle of the centuries
I wish I could like this comment a 100 times :D
So funny
This is an amazing work, the animation is unbelievable and the concept and the script it is all so well done. Although I, personally, think you've got it wrong with the conclusion. I always found Jung ideas way more interesting and profound than Freud's but that's only my opinion. Never the less, you really did a remarkable job with this video.
Was gonna write a comment, but Nicola said it all...well done
The conclusion didn't state that Jung was less interesting or his ideas less profound. Do watch it again.
@@olaberglund1776 yeah they meant that overall, people follow a Freudian philosophy as opposed to Jung's
@@dannydjerf7907 That's so deep.
It’s quite apparent that the “deciding factor” is based on the narrow sighted cultural identity.
Ask around. You will get a lot more people who know Freud than Jung. Freudian Slip. Daddy issues. Mommy issues. Ect.
Freud serves more to our primal demands, understanding that all motivation and emotional genesis starts with the basic primal motivators. It’s within that general underlying commonality that we find this level of recognition.
Jung I feel just expands on it, the ego making the primal ID something tangible and intrinsic to human interaction. There is a level of self awareness needed to be able to accept Jung’s philosophies. And self awareness in the face of insecurity is much more daunting than admitting to primal motivators. The age old adage “Being honest with yourself”.
In simplistic terms, it’s easier to accept an uncontrollable primal urge than to accept a conscious responsibility for most people.
They both serve their purpose because the only philosophy that is correct is the one that moves the patient forward.
My only complaint about this amazing clip will be the conclusion. Yes, for now, Freud seems more influential and important. But who knows? Just saying too easily that 'in the end, it was Freud who won the battle' could be way too arrogant
Let Freud Unconsciously win, while Jung is laughing...
*Laughs in Jungian Psychology*
Kudos to your insight!
I mean why fight?
Why be afreud of the light
When the junger mind is all right👌
The people know the real truth. JUNG
This is funny to me since both philosophies are instrumental in psychoanalysis and the only correct philosophy is the one that moves the patient forward.
I’ve used Freud to strike common primal feelings in people to make them agreeable. From feigning vulnerability to get laid to using anger as a tool to manipulate. Freud is the philosophy of primal motivators. If you can figure out a persons motivations at a primal level, you can accurately predict a response.
I’ve used Jung to rationalize emotions to express myself, to self reflect and obtain a level of self awareness to understand where I stand in my world, and if you know where you stand, you know how to move forward in the direction of your choosing.
There is no right or wrong here. No winner. The subtext to the video speaks to the ironic absurdity of even making the distinction.
But the true irony, and the one that’s lost on 90% of these comments, is the narrow mindedness of tribalism to one of these men. That irony that refuses to acknowledge that both are right and both of these exceptional minds ideas and practices are both used today. Both are needed and both need each other to validate mental health in its entirety.
@@grantlee9359 the truth with psychology is ALWAYS in the middle, no psychologist was ever right a 100%,psychology was built on bullshit, trial and error.
Freud comes across as an insecure, paranoid narcissist while Jung seems like a bright, adventurous, open minded student who surpassed his teacher rather early, which lead to the split. Without casting any doubt on the accomplishments of Freud in depth psychology, Jung was way ahead of him. There will come many who will surpass Jung. It is the way of the thought.
They believe and method was different. ! I don't know how fued got this sex idea from ? A pedo , pervert ?
I wouldn’t think Jung had ‘surpassed’ his tutor anymore than Aristotle surpassing Plato. It must be incredibly difficult as an intellectual giant to have your work continuously refined by another great mind. I am not read enough in the subject/material of Jungian theory, but I understand they (Freud/Jung) had an unapologetic relationship.
Agreed the student doesn’t realize when he’s surpassed his teacher.
There is no way to establish a winner when the counters talk about different things. The Jung work is absolutely amazing. We cannot say just that Freud is the winner and avoid the argues that Jung had about the Freud´s theories. We need the Jung´s posture about libido theory and so on. Thanks a lot for the video and the possibility of discussion.
Though I believe that Jung's standpoint is correct, I think its important to realize that the creator of the video was just stating an subjective opinion. We each have our own beliefs and concepts, which can be dangerous, because sometimes beliefs cross that thin line and become labels. Beliefs are something we delve into at deeper levels than labels.
@@marshawnlunch6762 my issue with Freud fangirls is that they don't really think their ideas are just subjective opinion. They really believe psychoanalysis is this beautiful science. Well, it isn't. It is just void.
Freud is for normies.
What's a normie?
@ If you have to ask, you are one.
@timwins31 Being full of shit and inspiring Jung doesn't make Freud less full of shit.
true, Freud is a lot of bs than Jung. I dont get why some psychology students believe on his theories and consider it as a fact. Understanding Jung is like exploring the entire ocean, so I'm not surprised that Freud's works are more recognized today because it only encompasses the minds of plebs and the normals
Jung was fucking leftist
It's extremely funny that Freud claimed that Jung was "unscientific". The pot calling the kettle black.
yes! hahaha
Freud was a neurologist with clinical medical training, physiology, and a background in evolutionary biology.
Human psyche is complicated enough for both of them to be right.
I will call out Freud for accusing Jung of being anti-scientific, though. What is psychoanalysis then?
Indeed. It wasn't even empirical since he was dealing with the subconscious mind.
A soft-science no doubt. (Laughs in sexual tension)
The primal motivators are quantifiable within a system of measurement. While not always 100% accurate all of the time, they have been accurate enough in the past to help me pick up women or have an advantage in a situation when reading the room was essential.
What Freud meant by being anti-scientific is that the conscious emotions are ever shifting and not quantifiable outside of a sketchy outline. It’s also the core reason that some people consider psychology a sudo science. We have Jung to thank for that. Lol.
Failure to acknowledge the personality traits that drove these men to develop their philosophies that need each other to validate each other does both of these men a disservice. Use a little Freud to comprehend their baseline and empathy that dove these men together then apart. Then use a little Jung to understand why their philosophies need each other. lol.
Irony makes me smile.
@@jojogarcia8766 LMAO freud was a freak
I believe that psychology should be relocated to the humanities.With an essential understanding of philosophy.
Jung was *transcendental* Freud was materialistic.
Edit: Freud pretty much drove himself mad constantly psychoanalzing things and people around him. There was one time Freud looked on as Jung as his own father whom he hated after a fainting spell and Jung caught him. There is such a thing of overanalyzing and I feel like I myself am too much like Freud when I much desire to be more like Jung. 😂
Freud is the father figure, old, pessimistic, obsessed with sex and death, the conscious mind. He very much so has the traits of Saturn, fearing that his son will usurp him.
Jung is the child figure, young, curious, inspired by the world around him, imaginative and creative, fun-loving, the subconscious mind. And much like Jupiter, he has in fact usurped Freud's position as more and more people are turning to his works and discovering themselves through his works and leaving Freud's tired old psychoanalysis to time.
I disagree with his end conclusion. Although Freud was a great genius (as was Jung), the battle still remains. Jungian psychology is slowly gathering momentum and I believe will eventually reach a point where people will better understand his deep wisdom. One thing is for sure, in a world where the Gods are dying or are already dead, nothing more than Jung will bring us out of our individual and collective darkness back to the light. We need Jung to help us evolve to the next level.
Over at the Jung To Live By channel you will find a group of psychologists who will push that momentum to a head. They have the approval of Jung's only son, and have synthesized Jung, Freud, and even Adler. With an understanding of systems, how the spheres of the social, biological, neurological, and phycological are intertwined, they've gotten out of psych reductionism. (for the neurological I would look up Mark Solms on youtube, of neuropschycoanaylsis, and Panskepp on the science of emotion or "affect"). They just recently founded a college in liverpool with which applications are available, the very place Jung said was the center of the world in his Red Book. I would buy their hyponotherapy handbook if you are not sold after checking out their channel, because after directly interacting with the unconscious in such a way there is little room to doubt.
@@TheBebuchis What bull. Jungian psychology is dead and those "psychologist" you mention are just egotistical idiots who misrepresent and have put the final nail in the grave of poor Jung. Did you ever wonder why the hell the approval of Franz Jung would matter? At all? That man was an architect, now i know what will come up from you, " he was his son of course he would know something about psychology so his approval matters" . Nope, not at all, he was the only child that decided to lead his own life away from his father and with encouragement from Carl no less.
@@friktogurg9242 coping
I really enjoyed the concept of the video, the way it is made, until everything was ruined by announcing a winner.
Good job...
A movie about Frued and Jung would be amazing
It already exists: "A Dangerous Method", by David Cronenberg.
I have to say, everything about this video is very, very well done. I also liked that you actually have a say in the end. This type of content is a rarity on UA-cam, do continue.
I love everything about this video- from the narrating to the animation to the content, its incredible
the ending was unnecessary
THE RED BOOK on the nightstand when they were interpreting their dreams was a nice touch!
Clearly a edit we don't deserve
Thank you
This video is brilliant!
I love Jung's theories! :)
I have a hunch the creators of this video loved Courage the Cowardly Dog
Sound the actor in Goodfellas
I love these videos, they are so interesting. Keep up the good work.
This video is absolutly amazing !!! Although as the latter coment i share the same conclusion... never the less completly astonishing !!! Do some more of these please
I got into Jung bc of BTS' "story line" and man. I'm glad I did cuz this is amazing
@@thethinker2372 damn im exactly like you
Same, I wanted to know more about it because of BTS reference and something.
Jung > Freud..... because of the Red Book... a true Masterpiece!
What is the red book about?
@@sililtatchu there are the Dreams of C.G. Jung
This is stunningly well done.
Brilliant animation, puts the central concepts over wonderfully.
What a brilliantly made video!
And I personally think the ending was rightly put. I see where the misunderstanding can come from, there is no "winner" per se. But what we need to consider is that Freud was undoubtedly the pioneer of the subject that is psychoanalysis, and through this having influenced almost every sphere of life. Terms like, "Freudian slip" or "defense mechanisms" are so often used by people, that they ought to know who Sigmund Freud is. You can't point out who was better between Freud or Jung, but you can definitely say Freud had greater, revolutionary contributions to the world than Jung.
that was amazing! beautifully done. thanks!
The visual rythm of this animation was great.
ACADEMY OF IDEAS MUST SEE THIS!
Congrats on this animation! Amazing content
Freud laid the groundwork which Jung built a monastery upon.
To understand even a little of the scope of Jung's work would have put him far beyond Freud in the perspective of the narrator, who chose a winner, which was not a good idea even without taking Jung's scope into consideration. The freudian approach may be more popular in the public eye but Jung dug fathoms deeper and could back it up far more effectively
I was looking for a source on the differences between Freud and Jung and this video exceeded expectations! It was interesting to note that a seemingly informational video had an explicit decision made to a question I think has yet to be answered..and may never will be ;-)
Edit: Perhaps it's in part to me coming to these two figures from someone who prefers Jung's theory or perhaps it's in part to me not having parents and losing my mom at a young age (did I lose something vital to existence?)
Amazing video ⏤ very interesting topic and marvelous animation!
Who gave you the right to let Freud win? That’s just hilarious.
Definitely won as far as being taught in college. I had to learn about jung on my own.
No one did.
Society and practice did.
Your problem is the inability to see past your own prejudice and opinion it seems. My guess would be Freud’s lewd views on sex offends your sensibilities.
It doesn’t matter who is right and who is wrong. The irony of this is clear in the underlying subtext within this video, your clue should have been the existential name drop.
Who is right then? Well that’s an easy question that demands you remove ego from the equation to garner the most valid answer. (See what I did there? Lol)
The only philosophy that is correct is the one that moves the patient forward.
Thus it’s not as easy as .... let’s say grouping people by identity. No no no.
Humans and the complexity of our psychological make up demands more than “right and wrong” “black and white” up and down”. (Also one of the cornerstones of Nietzsche’s philosophy)
This is self evident because both of these philosophical geniuse’s lessons and writings are still in practice today. Both have been and are vital in the recovery and exploration of the human psyche.
most of Freudian theories are failed . There is book called Fall of Freudian empire by Hans eysenck.
@@chaitanyarakwal9727
Both need each other. Ever hear the expression “I had to learn Jung to use Freud?”
Do not dismiss the power of the pragmatic. The power of the primal motivators. They have their place in the world. Father and mother issues, for example, follow patterns and are relatively predictable. How do you think sociopath and psychopaths, while lacking empathy, are able to predict and take advantage and manipulate people, using those said primal motivators?
But where Freud falls short, Jung lends a hand.
And when the EGO is to pampered, even we solely stick to Jung, we lose that ability to recognize those primal motivators, which make up the foundation of our psychological makeup and Jung becomes more of a crutch than real help to integrate in to society.
They need each other as the sun needs the moon despite being on opposite sides of the world.
@@edmontontech2008 well said.
Out of topic but your videos deserves millions of views.
Whaaat? You decided who gained the upper hand? Jung is mind-blowingly insight-proviking to read.
What a quality content jeez.
The animation is beautiful!
Very well done sir.
I think people misunderstand that the conclusion isn't about which psychologist was the most correct, but rather which had the most influence on their field and culture. Freud laid the groundwork for many other important psychologists such as Maslow, Erikson, and Adler. Even if their theories were normally developed through disagreement and reform, his influence can in no way be ignored.
I love all those turn of the century feuds...Strindberg and Ibsen is another good one.
Wow. Terrific. Thank you.
Great animation!
Announcing a winner was so much better than any boring relativistic conclusions. Taking a firm stance brings out ppls passions and invites ppl to disagree. And for the record, no Jung without Freud, but Freud didn't need Jung
Jung=inspring, amazing brain...
Great animation with explaination
What a strange way to end a great video
Great video, very informative with great animation and editing. The only problem I have is that you chose a winner at the end? I feel like choosing who is more influential creates a false dichotomy between the two and under values the influence and legitimacy of the “loser’s” work. It probably would’ve been better to highlight their difference in opinion on the human psyche and leaving it as an open ended question to foster further discussion.
Still enjoyed it though
bit of a leap there...
We will find out in 200 years that Jung was the winner. We just weren't ready for Jung.
You can only understand and get deep into the world of Jung , if you are awake spiritually and existentially... He is unknown prophet among his own people.
Except, Jung is slowly but steadily making a major comeback.
WHY IS THIS VIDEO SO TRIPPY I FELT LIKE I WAS TRIPPING
It’s quite apparent that the “deciding factor” is based on the narrow sighted cultural identity.
Ask around. You will get a lot more people who know Freud than Jung. Freudian Slip. Daddy issues. Mommy issues. Ect.
Freud serves more to our primal demands, understanding that all motivation and emotional genesis starts with the basic primal motivators. It’s within that general underlying commonality that we find this level of recognition.
Jung I feel just expands on it, the ego making the primal ID something tangible and intrinsic to human interaction. There is a level of self awareness needed to be able to accept Jung’s philosophies. And self awareness in the face of insecurity is much more daunting than admitting to primal motivators. The age old adage “Being honest with yourself”.
In simplistic terms, it’s easier to accept an uncontrollable primal urge than to accept a conscious responsibility for most people. Pragmatism vs Empathy. And people are selfish by nature.
They both serve their purpose because the only philosophy that is correct is the one that moves the patient forward.
Amazing video. Like Griffith and Guts,
If you are going to pick a winner, it would all depend on what you were constituting as success. It is true that Freud put forth much of the foundation that made Jung’s insights possible, however in a direct comparison of their psychological model, Jung went so much deeper than Freud, and I would argue he put forth a more sophisticated and accurate model
great content and presentation but why
why conclude with one of them
(this part ▶) 1:35 there wasn't a German Café. Sigmund Freud interpreted a Jung's dream while they were in a ship traveling to America. ( a lot of curious facts happened during this trip - more information in Freud's biography by Peter Gay)
Freud Is Just A Love♥
Recommendation of the two psychologist..
Freud: you need sex!
Jung: meanings are important, synchronized with it.
They were like Plato and Aristotle.
i think it too, jung got a bit deeper in the mind!
Yea, believe so . The book: Man and his symbols
Can I get that drawing of Jung and Freud? Is it on sale anywhere?
How about they both made a massive contribution towards us as a whole and there's a lot we could learn from them?
I love this comment. Yes.
Ah yes the Philosophers Cinematic Universe
He means a winner in the cultural conscious sense, obviously more often than not do you hear the name of Freud come up or recognized by the public, but neverthess it does not suggest that people aren't aware of Jung's work (everyone knows what introvertion/extravertion are), but the name itself is less acquainted with the general public, as opposed to Freud.
Whom would I contact in order to use this video in an online presentation? thx!
THE COOLEST VIDEO I WATCHED :p
the popularity contest... That’s what we go out on?
the art was amazing, the ending choosing a winner not so much.
The end almost ruined the whole beautiful presentation... the winner thing is absurd in this case..
I think you must have your own personal experience with the divine, if I may call it that way, in order to understand Jung's work. I myself 1st got introduced to Buddhism and Taoism, and then later Hinduism. I did my inner work for years based on what I've learned from the Eastern ideas. I had many synchronistic experiences and I started to feel more connected with myself and nature as a whole. Later I found out about Jung and started studying his work. It was easy for me to digest his ideas because I already experienced some of the things he's talking about.
Saying that Freud is the winner just because he laid the foundations of psychoanalysis is like saying that cavemen are winners for inventing the wheel
It’s absurd that you announced a winner - that is all subjective
U r the first guy to say Freud won. I like the open mindedness
If I take the Freudian "sex everywhere" critique in this video to task I discover this: today's porn industry and the near dominant internet use for sexualisation of oneself or others via a multitude of platforms as prime examples of Freud's concern for the sex drive aspect of the unconscious mind. Many misunderstand Freud when they attribute sex drive theory to him. Freud theorised that the most base form of a human was sex drive and the most sophisticated not. He wanted sophisticated humans , balanced folk. No matter what anyone says here about Freud. I can testify that my own personal reading of his work and historical understanding of his theories has made me astonishingly more measured than my friends and company who hasn't. I have male friends who are married with a family gladly reveal their fantasy for other women openly to me. I've female friends who have broken up with a partner over another love interest only to return to the original despite contrary ideas revealed to me. I've heard both male and female expression of unsavoury lust while in committed relationships of various degrees. The constant sexual chatter that befall my ears despite the company I'm with knowing I'm of a more moderate kind. I read Freud, they hadn't. And somehow Freud was the sex obsessed one? Young was right though overall. Young sought to progress the complex nature of the kind and not just the sexual aspect. Freud not wrong still though about the sexual base nature of human beings. Sophisticated minds know this though especially. Freud wasn't an Andrew Tate type was he?
We are all using the Internet, that is what Jung felt was the collective unconscious
That's basically the collective unconscious rebuilding itself in the conscious realm. The whole meme phenomena (as purported by Dawkins) is basically Jungian archetypes.
Jung was most concerned about the truth of existence and of all life. Freud was concerned about the mundane aspects of the human mind and its illnesses. Jung rules in my book and I'm sure along with millions of others.
Freud was more ontologically on point really. What is life about if not gene replication as done through the process of sexual reproduction. All of your traits can only exist by them leading to a greater probability of sex and therefore copying which is why sex is such a central and major interest of humanity (and all sexually reproducing species), everything connects back to it in some way. Of course they are both wrong for the most part in the end.
Fabulous animations but that's about it.
Yeah great animation but seems biased with the result, I think Jung lays claim to greater influence
I don't think you can consider one without the other. Freud invented the method of psycho analysis and Jung seems to have used it for all it was worth
I'm reading Jung's Red Book now. It looks like the sort of book one has to meditate on or at least take it in small bites. It reads like the physician healing himself. I have never had such spectacular or coherent dreams and fantasies but if I did I'd probably scare myself witless and maybe even s--tless.
Well, the video declares freud the winner, but the comment section suggests the opposite. 😊😊
Just can't come to a conclusion, Both are pioneers... Freud was spot on with libido but Jung also has some valuable insights about psyche that are just not restrained by sex.
I agree with both, I think the most important aspect to define who was better or which theory is better, is to pay attention to see how they lived their lives. he who had more better times is definitely the wisest. Either way, psychoanalysis is also a paradigm. It has been great for modern culture to understand the psyche, but come on! We already had those who deepened more and left the method to those who want to hear it, but, of course, if science does not approve it, it is not valid nor true. "Slaves of the system"
For those who seek the truth in science, do not forget that science belongs to magic and that the most remembered scientists were magicians.
But don't believe anything I'm telling you
Either way, the text can only be understood by those who do not need to read it.
Freud has been the winner for sometime. But I definitely see a growing usefulness for jungs views in society. More and more people are becoming facinated by them as a useful tool. I think one day most people will be jungians than Freudians.
Jung and MBTI - is the Future!
I'm still processing that Jung and Freud were friends.
A winner? What..!!.
Why did you end it like that
I think it's up to the viewer whether to agree with Jung or Freud.
I agree heavily with Carl Jung and his beliefs, I don't believe in coincidences, as V said in V for Vendetta "there's no such a thing as coincidence, only the illusion of it."
Freud was too practical which in my opinion can limit abstract thinking, connection making and intuition.
It's Jorge Luis Borges. Can you change it, please?
Dang you were doing so well and you had to go and ruin everything at the end 🤣
Boy:I feel sad today
Freud: you want kill your father
Boy:?????