How to Integrate Your Shadow Self | Robert Greene & Jordan Peterson
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- Опубліковано 21 бер 2022
- Watch the full episode here - • Your Dark Side and Con...
This episode focuses on human nature and the principles surrounding strategy, power, and seduction with Robert Greene. We also discuss the motivations behind power, deceptive strategies, Robert’s many jobs before settling as an author, psychopathy, manipulation, agreeableness, feeling guilt over being ambitious, channeling your shadow, and much more.
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I’m glad to see the beard is back Jordan 🙂
*can not **_wait_** until all female sporting records are held by trans women. somethings gotta give.* have you seen the trans swimmer beating the female silver olympic medalist? or the story of the number 1 female tenis player losing to the 203rd ranked drunk male player, after she challenged "any male tennis player who thinks they can defeat her!".
even tennis. idc care about sports. but it is pretty wild. ppl taking drugs to shave half a second off thr swimming time; this trans woman won by ~40 seconds against an olympian. who are they fooling? -JKC
I don't mind the ads
Two gifted minds. Dr. Jordan Peterson my favourite Philosopher, Psychologist, Writer and sophisticated compassionate gentleman.👩🎨
Great feedback. Dr. Jordan Peterson helping me to be open mind. I Can't find the video with J.S. Bach Brandenburg Concerto #3
"Anger suppresses fear" this is one of the reasons I love Jordan Peterson. I intuitively knew this all the way back in highschool but I never could put it into words. I was terrified of presenting in front of the class, and I was even anxious about having to write creatively for my teacher to judge it.
I realized when I got angry because I was forced to do another presentation about a topic I didn't care about, all my fears and anxieties about presenting went away. Indifference and forthrightness came through instead and this came off as confidence and competence. I would approach it with brutal honesty and managed to ace my presentations.
Anytime I have to approach something that makes me anxious like even confronting someone that's crossed a line, I notice if I can make myself angry about the situation I can very easily be constructively confrontational.
Interesting. I myself have to do the opposite because I already naturally tend to be more angry and aggressive and that can make me blind and narrow-minded. I guess it's a balance thing and what you have to do depends on which side you naturally fall on due to your personality.
@@MIbra96 That's very interesting you say that because naturally I'm a very calm person. So when I utilize aggression it's enough to let me get over my inhibitions and be as sharp in social settings as I am alone. Basically I have a lot of confidence in my ideas and thoughts but I can't get them out in social settings many times and this creates a disconnect between the depth of thinking I have and what I can communicate.
Have you found an analogous trick to calm yourself down ?
@@Adam-ui3yn Man people like you fascinate me because I just can't be as calm as you haha. I also tend to get along very well with people like you. Anyway to answer your question, what I have learned and what helps me in conversations is to not answer immediately but pause for a moment before I answer. In most situations I can control myself pretty well I think but sometimes when I hear something that I think is just logically wrong, morally wrong or bullshit/lies I can't help myself to say something. I've learned to keep my mouth shut more over the years though.
@@MIbra96 I think both modes of being have their virtues and vices. I find I'm almost detached from the world and I'm this observer. If someone provokes me or pushes me my instinct is to ask questions "who is this person, why did they do this, how should I react?" It's great in settings when you need to be careful what you say or when being calm is optimal like an emergency.
But it has its downsides because by the time I figure out the best course of action it's too late. If someone pushes me sometimes the best thing to do is push them right back without thought. I find your type can react faster in the world so you respond better to threats and provocations. I'd say you're better at improvising and I'm better at strategy.
@@Adam-ui3yn Yeah and through coordinated team work you can get the best of both worlds! :D Don't get me wrong though. I do very much enjoy things like strategic thinking and problem solving which I have to do in my vocational field (A.I. research). It's just that when I feel like something being said or done is wrong I just can't help myself from saying something. And sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut. I learned that over the years haha.
I ran into each one of you separately during my internet research and now that I see you guys together, specifically with this topic, I want to thank you infinitely for your work and your help.
Isn’t it weird how significant ‘separates’ manage to come together?
@@user-bs1ky4uy3s ???
Agreed
@@MartinP279 not the real JB Peterson, scammers, do not engage. Activate 'ignore mode' 👍🙏
That’s a weird stalker confession
There’s nothing worse than being nice for so long that you end up losing your sense of true self and morals, i have dealt with this phase of being naive and accepting the cruel ways i was treated with and the disrespect I’ve encountered, I genuinely was feeling guilty because being kind and nice were two traits I associated with being socially accepted, and involved.
when i go back and reflect on all of that i feel terrible for the times i let down myself and disrespected myself and downplayed hurtful events too.
I’m growing now to validate the idea that playing role of the bad guy isn’t really bad in itself.
i’m so glad you commented this, this is exactly how i am. And it does hurt like CRAZY. I hope all has been well :)
I relate to this so much it hurts, man...
Watch Coach Corey Wayne and read his books!
My parents were not devoted to my well being and upbringing. They did the bare minimum to keep me going. I was basically a burden. So, I was raised to be nice, compliant and easy going. I thought I had to be selfless and put others before me, because that meant I was a "Good" person and that would secure the relationships in my life. Living this way , helped me to avoid conflict but I could not progress. I also expected that people were going to be nice towards me, but that did not always happen. Being nice in my jobs, allowed me to blend in and get my salary but I was too afraid to step out of that comfort zone to move upward. I totally understand what you are saying. I have recently learned to put myself first and not be so nice. I'm not mean but I realize that I was not put on this earth to cater to others. The sad thing is, some people in my life that were used to my previous persona, do not seem to want to interact with me anymore. Maybe it's because I no longer do favors for them and they have no use for me anymore? Anyways, I'm slowly appreciating myself and I'm focusing on my potential. I'm also learning who my genuine friends and family members are.
@@riac5388 thanks for sharing and yes it will take time and it will be something new to us to put ourselves first and care less about the guilt that comes around it. But it’s worth it when you start standing for who you are. And for those who who will only remember the old version of you, they will always miss the version that was easy to manipulate a use. not because you were flawed but because you had a little to none experience to what social interactions are about. i hope you are happy with person you are today and who you becoming 🥺💜 you deserve to be put first
I had my aggressiveness throttled out of me by my parents and teachers when I was very young. Because I was trained to the point of being afraid of being aggressive and standing up for myself, I was bullied relentlessly throughout school and disrespected by many people in my adult years mainly for being too nice.
This is exactly what happened to me too. My life has been a misery... 😔
That’s awful. I hope you’re doing well now
How are you doing now?
@@jtcruz125 Doing better, I’ve changed a lot over the last few years, learned a few life lessons. I think the key is to not go out of your way to please people who frankly couldn’t care less about you. Sounds obvious but it can be hard to put into practice. Thank you for asking. Are you doing alright?
@@bingbashbosh1 "Sounds obvious but it can be hard to put into practice." You couldn't have said that any better.
“You end up turning that aggressive energy on yourself.” Wow. Very insightful. Thank you.
That's pretty much the definition of True Depression. :/
I went to a Jordan Peterson lecture yesterday and my expectations were so high I was actually worried it wouldn't be all I hoped. I was so wrong, it was so much more. this guy is the archetypical hero he talks about. When you have a room of thousands of people dead silent leaning forward intensely listening... just wow. So glad I discovered him!
@@user-bs1ky4uy3s scam
u're lucky man :D
I went to a lecture of his a week ago & I too was a little worried that Id hyped it up too much & I may be left disappointed. Not at all! He was fantastic & I felt like everything he said was exactly what I needed to hear. I only wish it would have lasted longer.
So is not only me , wow 😯 I love that explanation about Adam and Eve and apple
Going to one Wednesday:)
Anger can be channeled into something productive and creative. "Anger is an antidote to the terror that would otherwise freeze you. " - Jordan B. Peterson *brilliantly summarized
Brilliant…
"We have anger as an antidote to the fear that would otherwise freeze you" - Dr. Jordan B. Peterson
I personally really liked this quote. If we want to succeed in life and make our ambitions a reality, we must learn how to chanel the anger within us unto our creative endeavors.
Singing, music is essential for me to channel those emotions. It sounds stupid, but man it really works.
For myself, as a part of competive sports you learn to deal with disappointment, you learn to manage your aggression, you learn how to look at your mistakes and where and how to improve yourself. Life is tough and I feel that competitive sports is a great way to learn life skills at an early age.
Especially if you have a good coach who teaches kids how to channel frustration into determination and not bickering with team members.
@@MrVvulf I think pretty much ONLY if you have a good coach to help with those things. Otherwise, competitive sports become easy ways for people to be shitty to each other. If youre in a sport and have a kind parent who encourages you and helps you through it all, you will have a far different outcome typically then kids who have parents who threaten and talk down to them about mistakes they made during the game or practice or whatever, belittling them and making them feel incompentent and worthless because they "didnt score a goal" or something.
This is why I hate schools cancelling physical education and comptatitive sports.
The problem is the abundance of shitty PA teachers, they don't realize their power to destroy the self-esteem of a child, most of them come as frustrated adults who use the little power they feel they have by getting even with children, instead of encouraging them to be better people. And worse if you commit the sin of being the fat kid; not my case, I was the clumpsy type, I was awful in any game with a ball or gymnastics. PA was my nightmare.
I very well could claim that JP has saved my life. Hearing about that inoffensive friend and how his aggression turned toward himself sounds just like what I’m feeling. It’s pretty tough trying to find my spot in the world! Thank you for everything you do Jordan!
Be strong stay strong Paul!
And Robert Greene saved mine in 2019 - these 2 guys together wow - I hope they do more together.
It is a problem in the White Males of the USA as can be seen by the high number of suicide deaths in that dominate culture of those called White.
Right on, brother. Keep looking up and moving forward!
Yo, the point of all this can be given in Carl Jung's " Red Book" . This will help you understand that "finding a spot in the world" or meaning, is meaningless. You might as well start raising unicorns or farming sheet metal. It is the biggest lie, that we find ourselves by our stations in life. There isn't any rules about that. The only meaning worth seeking resides within, when you find it, you will already be aware.
I watched this interview and this is the part that got me choked up. Because I was once someone too nice to people, that even when they disrespected me I was so naive. I would accept that disrespect, swallow it and then act as if nothing happened. Today when I look back to those situations where I had an opportunity to stand for myself, I start regretting, Why? Because I lived this long enough thinking that being nice was the right way to deal with people. How fucking fool I was, to think that I have to avoid confrontation and avoid being competitive towards something. I'm grateful that I started being the ''bad guy'' and show people how stubborn, rude disagreeable I can be.
Don't get me wrong, of course you shouldn't be bad to all of those people all the time. Like JP mentioned in one of his videos, you have to be a monster, be cruel, hurt people when necessary and then learn how to control it.
Well said. 👏
Curious: Your thoughts on The Golden Rule, then? 🤔
Sharpen your Sword n Keep it SHEATHED for the Most Part.
Just be yourself, if you have to think about being aggressive it doesn’t work. If you’re still a nice guy you’ve lived a good life. Shitty people live shitty lives, ignore their Fakebook pages.
@@QDurden That's not the point. Unless you integrate your aggressiveness, people will walk over you. Period. In case, you still believe that your advice is more credible than a psychologist's and the hard-to-miss paragraphs people have made about their experience with being a 'Nice guy'. I suggest you read all of them, to see how much good being nice has done to their life.
Also, it's actually kinda pathetic how you degrade it to Facebook pages as if that's the fault that I can't tell if you're a troll or a moron.
Robert Greene is so respectful. He just lets Jordan go on and on. 😂
agree. they are both brilliant. But RG is being characteristically humble here
Jordan tries so hard to appear brilliant.
@@Jollofpappi Yeah though the actual brilliant one is Robert Greene. A full vessel makes less sound.
Like a true narcissist they love to talk....and in the end they talk themselves into jail....
Well, as the book says Law 4 Always (always) say less than necessary.
This was great it reminded me of my son in first grade. They had a wall of fame when they would name a kid and the parents would come and they have a little celebration of the child. So I was talking to him about it and he said don’t bother coming everybody gets it by the end of the year. It doesn’t mean anything! He was in first grade and he saw through it immediately.
Very smart kid. They call it like it is too because they dont quite understand those subtle nuances of manners and all that fakeness lol they jsut are
I've been channeling my anger into lyrics and put music to them for years. Its much healthier and more healing than yelling at someone who made me mad or ranting to a friend about how much I hate something. I think Ive been able to integrated my shadow pretty well with music.
Good idea. Maybe I’ll try it.
I've got notebooks filled with lyrics, poems, phrases. I'd never let anyone see them because they probably all suck, but for a personal outlet it's just what the doctor ordered.
Robert Greene & Jordan Peterson - shadow talk?
am I dreaming? this is great. I could listen them for hours on this topic.
Shadow work is the hardest work I've ever done, and still doing.. It gets better when truth becomes light, and you find the load becomes far lighter on the path.. Thank you Jordan for these conversations. So timely...
Well said, these are words to live by; brilliant free advice.
Ok..... so HOW do you integrate the shadow?
What are the techniques?
I'm from the Millennial generation and we are one of the most depressed generations currently alive with the most mental health issues. Growing up we were taught the world had equality, a fair justice system, work input correlates with work success, that all humans are kind hearted and creativity will benefit you. It took about 8 years and a mental breakdown for me to finally adjust to how the world is actually ran, and my god what a depressing realisation. Were the most educated gen to date, the most in dept. due to uni/college loans and their aren't enough educated jobs available to meet the demand. Were underpaid, overworked and most can't afford to buy their own land until their in relationships. We've witnessed terrorism, war, global warming, corruption, propaganda, mind numbing advertisement, the downside of social media, pandemic and half of us have only just hit early 30s. Please be real with your children. Your moulding them to survive this world, not giving them a fantasy childhood. Tough love is sometimes kinder.
I feel you. I'm 30, and yeah, what a time to be thrown into adulthood..
As a human who grew up as a millennial, but is unfortunately a Gen-Z human, (I like to think im a Zillennial) I agree completely. My parents raised me in some fantasy, and im one fricked up adult that can barely walk through life! I walked out of childhood wishing for a love like in the 50's, and got stomped on! People truly need to mold children very carefully and realistically. I vowed to teach my children love, and not shelter them completely from the horrors of the world, I want to teach them gently that the world is horrible out there, but dont teach them to fear the universe. Tackle the universe head on! If you fall down, simply get back up and try again.
the upside to being an older millennial who went through some fair amount of abuse and assault as a kid was that I've never assumed the world was a nice place full of good people. that's kept me from having non-confrontational conversations with friends and my wife at times because they don't get why I'm so quick to judge so harshly, but it stems from seeing the dark side of humanity early and often as a child.
I understand completely. I think though, it's important to stay positive. And the fantasy our culture raised us on, which has been an excessively activist, idealist world view is even worse BECAUSE it's destined to lead to disappointment. Its raising children with these fanciful notions then telling them that failing to "fix" the world is due to moral failure and a tragedy.
But real life doesn't care, it's brutal and hard, and idealism is shattered, and rather than accepting life as a mixed bag, we become depressed because our childish utopian ideas are literally impossible.
Meanwhile if you study biology, you'd see that there is both good and bad in the natural world, and honestly humanity has created one of the most gentle and forgiving environments ever. That difference of expectation is what crushes into or frees us from sadness. And excess liberalism demands you ignore reality, so of course depression will be our outcome.
I'm from France and yesterday I was thinking the exact same thing as you, and that was not the first time this idea came to my mind. I keep feeling like I've been somehow lied to about the world. And god it was rough, and still is at the age of 28, to realize that.
Hope you're doing fine :)
This makes sense. As a kid I was never allowed to feel anger, neither was my brother, we were pacified and now as an adult everything scares me, I'm a people pleaser and ppl tend to just walk all over me. Also worried that if I utilise my dark side I won't be able to have any friends
Hi.. I can totally relate. It’s an awful dilemma. I am 61 and still trying to make sense of it. Much love
Go dark. Be more brutal. Be more of an asshole. Stop giving people so many chances ☝. Ignore people on text more. Come on. This is within you!
@@rw4877 my problem is due to childhood trauma i ignore even people who are kind to me… in inadvertently have ruined a bunch of friendships because i can’t deeply trust people…
😧 I’m so sorry but I suspect JP is a freemason. He was wearing a red and blue suit in one his videos with a purple tie. Those r masonic colors. And that weird looking demonic picture peeking behind the other gentleman’s chair? Idk something doesn’t add up. I started to listen to some of his videos and were more or less congruent, sweet to the ear and wordy to make the illusion of knowledgeable. Christianity preaches turn the other cheek and love even your enemies. JP is talking about embracing your dark side and just sounds fishy to me
Spot on, I think so many people suffer from this exact problem
Jordan Peterson never fails to bring to light something I forgot that I knew deep inside.
Astrology and psychology helped me find my shadow self, and also now I’m learning to integrate my aggressive, assertive, part who stands up for herself.
how to find it in astrology?
@@kookiecastro8452 that’s what I wanna know, thought that was all moonrocks and star signs
Same here, plus some life philosophy as well.
astrology is bullshit
@@kookiecastro8452 Black Moon Lilith would represent the shadow in Astrology.
My mother never let me or my sister express emotions especially anger, she controlled use with fear and physical punishment. I find it very hard to understand and use my emotions to benefit myself and my family (children) I think all my anger is driven by my fear. I don't think any emotion is bad it's how you choose to behave that's the issue. I hope I can make better choices, because at the end of the day after the recent death of my father due to cancer life can be shorter than we realise.
I am having the same problem but am finding myself feeling aggressive with my child who is most like me. He is very strong-willed so granted, that might play a role in it but when I think about what triggers me it is his emotional outbursts (that is what my mother would have called them but really they are outpourings) that I was never allowed to have and now, consequentially, I do not know what to do with them and I feel the same urge to stifle them and I need to move on from this and accept all of my emotions and compassionately in order to love my son the way he needs.
Most of us are conditioned like That. If u are Interested in Working with that, Check out „Laurence Heller“.
Art of Seduction and 48 Laws of Power are two of my favorite books of all time
Does it work when used?
You should try The Pocket Oracle and the art of prudence.
@@adio8824 dangerously so
mine too. there are some of the laws I don't choose to follow as I don't want to become that person, but its good to know them and see them when others use them against you.
Literally started the art of seduction this morning. What wonderful timing!
I understand that feeling of "being the bad guy" which might overwhelm my everyday work or even life. But Prof. Green's strategy, writing (my papers, books, and columns), had helped me to overcome that pressure I feel for apparently being on the wrong side of society, unable to change the route this is going every day.
Now, after long hours of introspection, I feel I just do my part, the best I can, where I am, standing my ground with my shoulders up. That counts!
Thank you, Professor Peterson!, Your lectures are way beyond those four walls of that classroom, or that lecture room, and now are part of many of us who learned with you and grew with you, one day at a time!
Absolutely fantastic way to put it
I've felt this happen in my life before. I knew that materialism, manipulation and the struggle for power would not lead to happiness. But I found myself in a loop of reassuring myself of these anytime I felt like I had shortcomings in life, anytime I tried to take action to change myself. It ate me up inside. Only when I embraced that I had these desires, and a part of me that views the world in a superficial sense, it felt like a great burden was lifted off of me. I'm still a compassionate and understanding person, and I value everyone the same as we come from the same source. I just had to stop suppressing the darkness inside to find peace
I met my shadow self in my late teens. Best meeting I've ever had in retrospect if not scarey as hell at the time. But it made me get rid of any delusions I held about what makes saints and sinners, and that it is up to us as complex individuals to be better people not just despite our failings but because of them. So much can be learnt when you shine a light on the darkness.
Same. Late teens as well
How did you integrate your shadow?
@@nigelbhebhe2805 Writing, Music early on and Artwork in my adult life
Wow!
I'm more exhausted every year I live and every year, I'm more withdrawn.
When you posed that a person could turn aggression inwards at themselves when not able to integrate their shadow into their lives in some way my mind was blown.
I've struggled with suicidal thoughts my whole life and although I've found God and healed from many damages, I can see myself getting worse by seeking pure isolation. I used to be very extroverted but due to my personal views, experiences, and choices I'm always an outsider. I've been labeled "aggressive" my whole life and when shtf I'm always the one they call, yet when things are good my assertive/honest nature is constantly the topic and why I "have to" change.
This is so exhausting. People exhaust me. I'm not mean or judgemental but why do people force you to give your opinion if they aren't prepared to handle unique views. They may be bold by today's standard but why is that wrong? 1 + 1 can only be 2 for me no matter how much the room "feels" the answer should be subjective to the individual.
Rant over, thanks for opening my eyes to a new trail of accountability on myself.
@@user-bs1ky4uy3s Guess who just got their channel reported for spam
@@Asegai666 it’s resentment at encroachment then powerlessness at the realization you’ll always be vastly outnumbered so there’ll be no escape from it - we never got the next step - the tools and permission to find and exhibit Agency. AKA the power to navigate that. These 2 guys are teaching that.
Highly recommend the Laws of Human Nature by Robert Greene. A bible people can actually use. By someone who really exists.
@AGENCYisTheEqualizer I just purchased that one, and the war one. I can't wait to dive in. And, being outnumbered doesn't scare me, (I've always been motivated by impossible odds); I think sometimes I just need a reminder that I'm not alone.
Everything you said. I hear ya 🙏🏼
Sounds like you need to upgrade your friend circle 🙌
Shadow integration is really a challenging task to accomplish. I have studied Jung and Peterson for this aspect but quite candidly it's not an easy job to done. I am going to start the process to integrate my dark side and want to get the vision what happens after then and how I transmute myself into a different person. Thank you Dr. Peterson for this video. My two favorite person are talking about psychology and behavior. It's really helpful one .
Yes. Carl G Jung was all about shadow integration. He would mention eloquently about the quartinites, mandalas and about his the pneuma and the soma are one abs the same thing; abs about integrating the conscious self into the shadow unconscious for becoming whole and transcending the mode of being. Beautiful
How?
What does integrating your shadow look like?
“Anger as the antidote to terror”
This just drove it home. Such a good conversation.
"anger as an antidote to the terror that would otherwise freeze you" -damn that's good!
Mr. Peterson and his conversations with others have changed my life for nothing but the better. I appreciate his efforts quite a lot.
Thank you sir.
Watching two greatest authors of psychology books together discussing an issue is just an awesome experience. Wish to see a book written by both authors together a book.
I came across Mr. Greene while I was in college and Dr. Peterson while I was in graduate school, the two eras of my life I cherish most. Seeing them together now is a crossover I never expected and never knew I wanted but am 100% all for it. Imagine if they collaborated on a book. I'd better start saving up every penny for that.
Thank you both for the knowledge you have generously imparted unto this world.
This is spot on
I'm an alcoholic/addict who was suicidal and monumentally self destructive in general. Fortunately, I survived my multiple attempts and got into AA for the 3rd time at 25 years old
I went in with the mentality "don't bullshit them this time". I was willing to do whatever it took and I "lived" the steps as opposed to "working" them
If you can do a solid and thorough "California 4th step", you'll never be the same again. The following steps fall like dominos and then you reach the daily maintenance steps and so forth
That 4th step made me recognize things about myself and instantly made me feel like a weight had been lifted off of my head that I never knew was there
My point is that, along with my upbringing, and a few other unique life experiences, my five years of sobriety was a key element in integrating my own shadow self
I'm not sober today, but I'm not hurting anybody, either. Including myself ☺️
@@user-bs1ky4uy3s wtf?
@@josh2695 it's a bot with the Dr's profile picture and name. Scam
What are the steps? Specifically the 4th.
What is the 4th step of the 12 steps?
@@te9591 he said California 4th step and I couldn't find a m different 12 steps for Cali.🤷
Jordan is such a smart guy, has been one of the people I look up too in my life
he's good, but the great minds of the past are infinitely better (the ones he parrots)
@@famebrightstudio451 can you name a few? I’m interested in doing some research. Thank you!
@@sharingstoke i'd probably start with looking into jung as alot of jordans (especially early stuff) started with this afaik.
The Art of Seduction is one of my all time favourite books. I really love how Robert Greene uses historical examples to illustrate all kinds of truths about human nature and behaviour. His books are absolutely jam packed with insight, and each time I re read his work, I read something from the margins I missed on previous readings. Great to hear an interesting conversation between two masters!
I’m so happy to see the two of you having this conversation! I’m an admirer of you, I pray to God that your platforms keep growing and more young people listen to your knowledge and guidance! May God bless you 🙏🙏🙏
Luke Skywalker stayed true to 'The Force' and returned to the greatest part of 'the self' in the legendary Lucas literature . Although he integrated his 'shadow self', it was through observing the mistakes of his father, he learned that too much anger weakens almost every part of one's 'Being'. His father attempted to entice him to 'The Dark side' as he himself had been seduced when he gave in to his anger which quickly turned to a destructive rage to both himself and all around him. This is when the individual becomes 'Shadow possessed' and the way back from the catastrophe in this type of destructive possession is often without dire consequences.
I am personally very grateful to have all of your insights and opinions, along with your learned experiences! Thank you very much for sharing with us!
the joy in my heart when I found this video, two of my favourite and respected writers talking about strategy, power and seduction.
you both are blessings
Exactly. I live the exact same thing. I am a very, very ambitious young man and each time I get ambitious despair and hate take me down. Hearing this helps me incredibly, thank you so much
Dr Peterson, I just wanted to say thank you. Over the last few years I've been listening, learning, watching to get a deeper understanding of who I am and what I want from life.
Your lectures and topics you discuss, both here and when interviewed elsewhere, along with many other long form discussions and interviews I've seen, many of whom you've visited and spoken to, has changed my perspective and understanding greatly. It has helped motivate me to accomplish more and I have already taken small steps that will hopefully blossom into a new career path where I can flourish and uncover a greater sense of accomplishment.
Trapped in a dull 9-5 that might pay the bills but offers no prospects, and having been in an education system that didn't focus on helping those in need and just propelling those already excelling has, in hindsight, led me down a stagnant path. We've all had the last few years to sit back and really re-assess priorities and I intend to make the most of it and use the new found motivation to spur me forwards which you (mainly) helped provide.
Thank you.
I love Peterson's stories and the way he tells them. Always worth the listen.
“Anger as an antidote to the fear that would otherwise freeze you “ 🤯
WOW that last bit about using anger to overcome fear is profound.
“Anger is an antidote to the terror that would otherwise freeze you.” This is epic
I'm thankful for these lectures about the shadow and they have me helped understand myself a lot more. But I like some more videos on steps to use your shadow for positive endeavors. I've been aware of my shadow for a considerable amount of time and tired of trying to tame it.
Oh these two together for a brief moment is a treat that should never be overdone as it is so potent when it's rare. Wow. Love it.
Two of my most favourites together having a conversation. Mr Jordan had a lot to say, Robert can write a whole book regarding this conversation 😄😄😄
Thank you so much for all your videos Jordan. You do a fantastic job of verbalizing your experiences and understandings.
I always wondered why I love being angry. It's because anger is a wonderful motivator for anything hard. I listen to metal to feel anger, and it always made me more productive at the same time.
Robert Greene and JP having a conversation. Well this is freaking awesome!
Being nice most of the time just attracts the wrong people in ur life. The one's who will tof that kindness and just use u for their own benefit. Don't be too nice trying to help everyone just to be accepted or belong. It's almost like begging people to love u that ur willing to be something ur not just to keep them around.
Afraid of your own shadow, has a total different meaning now.
I need this. I’ve been looking for something on shadow work. Let’s just say that fairness and honesty are strong values in me and.....well life has shat on me from all directions. It is a truth that even if you refuse to play ‘the game’ it doesn’t mean you won’t be beaten by it! A hard lesson and one which threatens to embitter me.
Yikes! Don't let it!!! You are great
It's so amazing to see both of my favorite author talk together
I love how Robert is a great listener and lets Jordan talk.
In case someone is looking for actual pracrical advise, I'd like to share how I go about integrating the shadow
I do a lot of writing excersises. My favorite one I call "projection assesment". It looks like this:
I pick 3 to 5 people I like least and write down exactly, why I hate them. Then I try to come up with an aproach for fixing them, but a good one, so they wouldn't just yell at me, if I told them. Then I erase the names from the paper and fill in my own name and assume everything I have writen down is exactly true about myself in some way. To wrap up I work out the details of how my critisism and advise aplies to me and how I can implement it.
I felt like I have grown a lot from these excersises, feel free to try
That is a great exercise. A good way to find your shadows is finding what you dislike about others. Because we are constantly projecting on others.
@@cesardante-barragan3394not at all, not necessarily, I hated always ppl brutally bullied my disabled brother, so this became like a shadow for me to hide it and hide my brother so protect him, and I am absol not a bullyer i resent that
This idea that there is a shadow is useful, and in Western culture perhaps even virtuous. Eastern culture recognizes the fact that there is no separate shadow, that it is an illusion, and that the separation is what causes suffering because it creates a simulacra out of thought that we can then be ashamed of, or upset with.
It isn't that you have a monster. It's that you are a monster. And you are a saint. Integration is only necessary when separation occurs through culture, or religion. Otherwise the moral guide is simply "what brings those around you most benefit without harming yourself in the process".
Being good is about the golden rule. The best way to be, that will bring the most benefit to all beings including yourself, is to treat others as you would be treated. That is evident is all philosophies and cultures. It's not being "nice". It's doing what needs doing to limit deprivation and pain, and boost plenty and joy.
JP is so highly intelligent and we are so blessed that he is willing to share his brilliant mind with us. I have only recently started exploring the realm of “the shadow side” and I am also exploring “enrolling” my subconscious mind into showing me my chief aim. The subconscious mind is the connection to the superconscious…I am finally getting that we are all spiritual beings having a human experience.
I can’t believe this conversation happened. Makes me so happy! Rules for life and human nature are great! Saw J Peterson in Phoenix last year and so happy I did!
Thank you❣️...from my shadow side. It's intergrated and I'm well aware of it. It needed to hear something like this.
I'm honoured and humbled to have it, and be aware of it, but most of all I'm humbled by it being my friend. It amuses me, but I know it can/could also freak me out/scare the crap out of me.
Thank you for the video Dr. Peterson. Informative and enlightening as usual.
This is such a peaceful way to lead people to their self protective tools! I would wish to get that as I was a child and not the war that opened up the gate of my shadows. It is great to see somebody tries to do it this way. Even to see this makes me feel happy.
i love robert greene and jordan it's amazing to listen to them talk together
This strikes me as so important because I have a "bossy" daughter. When I fou d my faith in God I realized that I needed to lead her personality for the good and not just try to supress and change her. Thank you for this conversation.
I wish for all parents to have this kind of awareness. 🙏 Wonderful! What a fortunate daughter you have, and how fortunate we will be to have her natural leadership ability in the world.
As long as the bossiness doesn't become pathological or too ego driven, which could still have the same force of personality behind it as long as it is, say, tempered by a combination of a decent sense of humour, charm etc., in order that the boss doesn't ostracize themselves.
Are there resources to read to help guide a VERY bossy child? (Daughter 6.5 yoa)
Any characteristic can be perceived as a strength or become a character fault. As parents we can direct our children(knowingly or unknowingly), to either the former or the latter. I am glad I saw ur comment because I needed the reminder.
@@thomascaleyd.c3405 Is she bosing you around or other kids? Also, find some people who see her when you are not watching to give you honest reporting of her behavior. I don't know if textbooks will give you the examples you need... I think more of it is relaxing on the parent end. I had to think about how I grew up and also how I am today and realize all my lessons were not learned at that young age. What they will pick up on is you and your wife. She will feed off of how you respond. So respond calmly and learn to ignore some things. Also, learn to ask rhetorical questions such as, "Was that kind?" "Are you supposed to do that?" which makes them think internally and choose.
Thank you Dr. Peterson, your thoughts on anger and fear has given me insight. I've had a hard time with it the last couple of years.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ, ᴍᴀᴋᴇ ᴀ ɴᴏᴛᴇ ᴛᴏ ᴋᴀᴛʜʀʏɴ ʟɪɴᴄᴋ ʀᴇɢᴀʀᴅɪɴɢ ʙᴛᴄ/ ᴇᴛʜ ɪɴᴠᴇsᴛᴍᴇɴᴛ ɪᴅᴇᴀs
𝚃ᵉ𝚇ţ𝄍𝑾𝒉𝔮τ𝑠𝑨𝑝𝑝
±𝟏𝟐𝟑𝟒𝟐𝟎𝟑𝟐𝟑𝟔𝟕
ʟᴇᴛ ʜᴇʀ ᴋɴᴏᴡ ɪ ʀᴇғᴇʀʀᴇᴅ ʏᴏᴜ;.,...
It's so cool to see two of my favorite thinkers have a conversation.
Absolutely loving this, thank you both!!
In avoiding that inward aggression I've come to the conclusion that the best way to find peace with your shadow is to OWN your behaviour. YEAH I DID THAT, that's me, that's what I chose to do. It doesn't mean you shouldn't be aware of it or tweak it going forward. But don't let others shame you. When you concede to being a bad person you betray your own soul (this is why regret is so damaging). People respect ownership almost irrespective of the act. Whatever you did, back yourself 100%. It worked out the way the only way it could. No shame. No regret.
One of my favorite men to listen to and learn from. Prayers for strong health in every sense of the word. Wish I could sit and chat someday, but this will suffice otherwise
Wow! An amazing podcast between two of the greatest and smartest philosophers of our time in one video together.
I were thinking about this.
Using creative outlets as a way to channel or divert a negative or undesirable emotional is an extremely valuable tool! Creative outlets, as opposed to destructive outlets, can be things that we enjoy doing, (ie. art, music, dance, writing), physical exercise, sports, yoga or prayer/meditation!
I had a Psych 101 professor my freshman year of college. He said 3 things that have all turned out to be true...
1) "Depression is anger turned inwards to yourself."
2) "Run away and FAST from anyone who tells you you're perfect" (they'll flip and begin to irrationally hate you).
3) "Angelina Jolie is most definitely a paranoid-schizoid."
Some of the best money I've ever spent.
What about angelina jolie makes her this? Im simply curious, thanks!!!!
The last one 😭
Two great men having a respectful discourse ❤️ probably this is how Aristotle and his bunch of students felt doting, adulating, waiting for the next drop of wisdom - can't get enough! 💖
Anger is an antidote for the terror that would otherwise freeze you! Genius. Thank you for your love for humanity.
Excellent stuff, Dr.
I'd love to see more of these shadow integration videos. The concept is a bit tough to understand. Thank you!
Look up the diamondnet with a girl named emerald. She has great videos about shadowwork.
@@zion367 thank you!
I think you guys both made some very valid points. I think it is important to express the need for gumption and truth to children. It helps give them tools to rationalize and process the hardest parts of the future. The perspectives we give children require a fine balance that will inevitable affect them one way or another.
An insightful discussion by a couple of daringly honest men. Something to treasure, always.
two great thinkers at once! what a gift! I wish this interaction took longer
Thx dr I’m thankful for the wisdom you share
Interesting conversation. I laughed at the birthday “gift bag”… we call that a “goodie bag” here in the US, and I’ve seen some crazy ones over the years.. sometimes worth more than what I spent on the birthday child’s gift
I appreciate you both for being your authentic selves. We are all. Thank you for being just you. 🙏🌻💖
So happy to see Jordan working so hard again❤️
some of this resonates with me, specifically struggling to understand what is aspiration in wanting something better for yourself and what is narcissism. the fact I conflate the two could have something to do with the "no losers" idea.
I still feel competitiveness, and find it funny that when I'm behind or feel dismissed I can channel that into unlocking performance I wasn't able to get before in recreational sports sometimes. Not always. In my work doing video editing, the moment I try to do anything creative with other people in mind (which this comparison or ego is what I think is fueling in sports for example), my work takes a nosedive. In that regard, the only way I've found forward is to find a way to focus on the dialog between myself and the work as many artists have suggested. I'd like to experiment with using ego or aggressiveness here and there, but it's not very obvious when its use is for the better.
If you look at the best of the best in all disciplines, you find someone who failed many times. Gave up all of their childhood. Got ridiculed and tortured because of it... but still carried on and on. That's what it takes. This life creates a hard competitive bastard, with true focus and a winners persona..
Perfectly said. Failure is just the path to true success.
they are the exception and not the rule though - very important to note
My two favorite minds having one of the most intelligent conversation; best colab yet!
so happy to see the two great minds conversing
I can honestly say that the books and the talks that these 2 men have published have changed me to be the person I am today and has armned with the knowledge on how to optimally handle different situations throughout my life; I would not be as smart and as strong and as wise as I am without them.
Thank you Robert Greene & Jordan Peterson
Shadow work for me is all I’m missing. I find suppressing the shadow is like surprising the masculine side. I feel inside when suppressed I act in ways I hate and talk in ways I hate. But within me I feel I’m always pushing it down and it’s not gone. I’m letting the shadow out a bit today slowly and I feel no fear and a desire for work and money. I’m going to continue letting this out a bit more daily
Thank you ,to see two brilliant thinkers engaged in totally open mined discussion about the topic really close to me at the time,just awesome
Just regarding that last point about anger being an antidote to fear is true because you can see it when fighters "psyche themselves up" before a big fight. They are drawing that anger up to quell the fear they feel! Eye-opening.
Anger is a motivating force, yes.
"I'm Mad As Hell and I'm Not Gonna Take It Anymore!"
This "shadow self" as I moved away from my home town and started meeting new people I realized quickly not everyone has that, some people are very innocent and, I met grown men who had never even been in a fight. Meanwhile I've had guns and knives pulled on me on several different occasions, got in a fist fight with the principal of my school etc, I'd tell them these things and their eyes would almost fall out of their heads and I was so confused that they didn't have experiences like this growing up and it explained I thought at least why they were so timid.
Maybe they have it and it’s manifested in different ways. No one is that innocent
I don't know who or what force of nature got these two into the same interview room. But I am forever grateful. I didn't think I'd ever get to see this in my lifetime.
Thank you so much , Dr Peterson you have helped me so much and as I continue to grow your teachings of life along with your compassion and human kindness each day grows brighter . It’s damned hard work , but infinitely worth it as I discover or rather unwrap all of what was hidden as I take one day at a time .
There is an elegant method to integrate the Shadow, coming from Ken Wilber and the Integral Institute. It starts from the premise that the shadow elements get split off from the subject "I" and projected upon another, a "you", then further distanced and becoming objects as an "it", a "he" or a "she" or "they". The split-off traits become unavailable to the self in first person perspective, and subject becomes object. To integrate the shadow elements, one traces them back from "it" by facing "it" and talking about it; then to "you", talking to the shadow as it appears in another; and finally becoming it, talking as the whatever the trait, emotion, drive etc had been disowned. Briefly nicknamed the 3-2-1 process, or referred to as "Face it, talk to it, become it", the process can be used to integrate the Dark Shadow (repressed or suppressed traits deemed as undesirable) as well as the "Golden Shadow", which is the unfulfilled potential, the qualities one recognizes in an admired other, that haven't been yet expressed in the self.
It's a fun process, effective, fast and quite liberating if done daily or regularly. There are variations to the method when engaging the body. For example, in addition to talking as the anger, fear, violence, courage or whatever aiming to integrate, one can move as or dance as that bit. Actors are ahead of the game, especially versatile actors. When I took some comedy improvisation classes, I participated in a number of exercises that blew my mind how useful they were for integrating the Shadow, creating emotional flexibility and resilience and such other personal growth skills.
Byron Katie also uses something like that - very interesting - thank you for the tip
@@dr.claudioaquino5319 You're welcome! Yes, the "turn it around" part of Byron Katie's work is shadow work.
thank you so much for all your work, you saved my life. 4 years october 10th sober and finally taking my responsibilities and trying to saty out of jail, just wanted to say thank you.
HI, Patrick here from Mind Life Flow...Thank you for this video and the content/information. It's important to talk about the 'shadow self' - as there are so many videos and information about 'being happy' and 'positivity'. The shadow self is in each of us in different ways and forms.
Some of us don't have an aggressive shadow self. Some of us, our shadow self is fearful because of being beaten down by other people's aggressive abusive shadow self. We have to learn that although we got severely abused as a kid that not everyone presently has cruel intent. It's difficult to differentiate between a PTSD reaction vs someone who genuinely is mistreating you.
For some of us it's like being trapped on planet of the apes.