Turbo Go Kart Finally Gets Electronic Fuel Injection!
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- Опубліковано 18 жов 2024
- The Turbo Engine is finally going to rip!
In this video we install electronic fuel injection to our racing predator 212. The installation was pretty straightforward in terms of mechanical install, but the software and tuning is quite difficult to figure out. In the last video, we pull out all the stops and completely build the baddest 212 that has ever rolled out of our shop. We used a complete stage 4 go power sports 212cc predator build kit, then added things like a turbo, side plate, and 265 fire grind cam to make this thing into a stage 5. Some of the stuff this engine got, NR Racing Piston, billet flywheel, billet rod, billet dual bearing side cover, 265 grind cam, and an arc top plate. After this build we are going to be installing the entire efi system specifically designed for turbo applications like this. Be sure to stay tuned for the video of us tuning this bad boy!
---------MUSIC --------
INTRO SONG: andrewapplepie...
MUSIC - Lakey Inspired
Blue Boi
/ blue-boi
-----------MERCH------------
MERCHANDISE CUSTOM DESIGNED BY YOURS TRULY
teespring.com/...
------------PARTS--------------
Stage 4 Kit Non Hemi - www.gopowerspo...
Machined Performance Racing Head - www.gopowerspo...
Ratio Roller Rockers - www.gopowerspo...
Hot (FIRE) cam - www.gopowerspo...
Billet Flywheel (Hemi) - www.gopowerspo...
Billet Rod - www.gopowerspo...
Billet Side Cover - www.gopowerspo...
ARC Top Plate - www.gopowerspo...
Clear Valve Cover - www.gopowerspo...
Head Studs - www.gopowerspo...
NR Racing Flat Top Piston - www.gopowerspo...
![[UA] NAVI vs MOUZ | BO5 | IEM Rio 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CMBYk0cbGoA/mqdefault.jpg)
O2 sensor is to close to the exhaust outlet, it will read leaner, because of the outside air
I have a fuel injected and turbo'ed 250cc buggy and it's going to be a long process to get running right! A few things I learned along the way... Move the O2 sensor as close to the turbo as you can and away from the exhaust outlet. The pulses will pull O2 back into the pipe and give you false readings (you really don't want that). Actually, ditch the O2 sensor that came with the kit and get a wideband sensor. It's pricey but worth its weight in gold when you start spooling.
A plenum is critical between the turbo and intake. It should be a minimum of 4x the size of your cylinder. The turbo needs to flow while your one and only intake valve is closed (75% of the time) and the plenum gives it this space. The good news is that an intercooler makes a perfect plenum and also helps with the 200+ degree air temps that you'll see.
Make absolutely sure there are no exhaust leaks. Even the smallest leaks will affect your total boost. Slather Permatex Copper Gasket maker on all connections.
I need to be at ~5000 RPM with a decent load to produce boost (11 psi). Revving in neutral won't generate any at all.
Good luck! The tuning process can take a long time. Take it slow and make sure you keep an eye on your A/F the entire time.
Reminds me on my first time with a standalone ecu on my Integra turbo, I was so eager to get it running after wiring and installation, took 5-7 man hours [looked factory] yeah... I sent 3/4 rods through the block 1st attempt at "trying" to tune it. My... I wish I knew then what i know now! Have fun!
customhonda Oh man...yeah this is going to be really good for us if we want to move on to bigger turbo builds in the future.
Build Break Repeat I understand! Not to sound like an old fart, but dude... mistakes are lessons learned! You're tomorrow's mechanics and the new innovative ideas. Make plenty of mistakes because just like asking questions, there's no dumb questions, learn away! Nice vids -keep experimenting!
@@partsshooter you wear dad shoes now dontcha?! LOL!
Audiwan Kenobi can you elaborate? What does that mean and how you get that from my comment?
@@partsshooter come on now,you don't live under a rock do ya? You sound like a old guy the way you gave advice..very close to being a granddad in a rocking chair telling muscle car stories.
I think you should really need to revisit the oil system, it should just be a big tank like the gas tank, and a pump with pressure regulator just like the fuel has which goes back to the tank. You will just blow the seals out or ruin the bearings with incorrect pressure
This is so cutting edge! I'm really enjoying watching your growth and that of your builds. Great stuff! Keep it up. I stumbled upon your channel a while back, while exploring the idea of fuel-over-electric vehicles. Drones, to be specific. Just planting the seed....
Christopher Flynn so buying a turbo kit and efi kit is cutting edge? This stuff has been in since the 80’s 😂 they’ve literally bought it and installed it not built it. Stop blowing smoke up their arse. Just dumb ass rich kids that have everything handed on a silver spoon
Cutting edge would be developing their own twincharged system with a variable induction and exhaust system that can be used throughout the full Rev range. Building it from scratch not buying it either!
oh yeah....coming along great!!!! It's refreshing to watch you guys throughout the project, especially since you show how you workout the problems, just seems a more honest, straightforward approach than most DYI style channels.....can't wait to see this lil cart run...many love, much props.......
great video i have always wanted to see this done!
I'm a machanic and a construkcion worker and a machanic engener and I love to bild up old cars and bild houses and bild sweet rides like this 😎😉. Greetings from Slovenia and I have a 2020 ford ranger wildtrak I buy it 12 years ago for 30.000k i'm 30 years old now and my friend has a car dealer and hi IS osol a machanic engener 😉. baytheway great video tanks mate
You guys rock! I gotta be honest I am so jealous! But heck I guess we all get to come along for the ride metaphorically anyway so it could be worse.
Once you get the ECU dialed in a bit you know you can figure your hp without a dyno. All you need are:.
1. Your go-karts rolling resistance
2. The drag coefficient of the kart and driver. (There are tons of free calculators online to figure this.)
3. Your speed.
4. Your RPM.
You'd have to make top speed runs to get an accurate figure but even going 0 to 30 you could get a ballpark and tell if your tune is going the right way or not.
No one has ever gone this far except for y'all boys! It's going to be nice
Vasily Custom Builds Thanks for the support man, we should colab sometime or something! Really into your stuff.
@@BuildBreakRepeat Yeah man I would be down around this summer! Maybe you boys aren't taking any classes. I'll have to let you know
Vasily Custom Builds Yeah this summer we’re free, I’ll hit u up on insta closer to then 👍🏻
You just Gave me an Idea on my banshee build...Fuel Injection...... Trying to build a Stock looking Sleeper Project 😂 Good job guy's
Why should it go faster with fuel injection?
ohh fuel injecting the 350twin on mah banshee would be nice.
@@milan5159 it's a matter of being able to keep the air fuel ratios correct the closer to optimization you can get the more power you can produce... you can do this with a carb however they tend to be much more finicky especially with elevation changes, humidity changes, temp changes, even gearing and camshaft changes messing with the air fuel ratios... where the efi can adapt to all these variables without needing to get covered in fuel to change jets, bleeders, etc.
Efi my aprilia sr50.its definitely possible.
@@X7rocks if it's got the qmb 139 50cc engine (id tag is usually found on the flywheel side of the engine or on or around the Vin tag) been there done it mine is heavily built-up (at the max actual displacement of 96cc) with a 52mm big bore conversion with custom piston, stroker crank, custom ground camshaft, upgraded 12 pole charging system (needed to run the efi), ecotrons efi custom specd for the build, big valve head with upgraded valve springs as well as ported and polished, custom 1 off 1-1/4 inch stainless exhaust header, custom 1-3/8 aluminum long runner intake, as well as a fully reprogrammed cvt and driven clutch, regeared final drive as well as numerous other modifications (does 80+ mph and 115mpg avg fuel economy) yes it's daily driven too
This is what cars and camera needed for the drift trike super cool bro
You guys are doing it right, built motor + turbo. This thing should be rowdy
Lmao you guys need to make it have 2 step please 😂😂
Not with this efi kit
It’s a single cylinder so a hard cut or soft cut two step will make the engine cut out, better off just purposely running a rich fuel mixture and delayed ignition similar to the anti lag used in rally cars
That exhaust sounds way better then the normal Harley Davidson sound.
On a single cylinder turbo engine you need a "boost tank " on the intake. It allows the turbo to build pressure in the tank and lets the engine get some real boost.
This is why NONE of the turbo builds on youtube seem to actually work. I think a decent sized intercooler off a car would make the perfect "boost tank".
Theres a channel called nugget garage i think. In their new cart build videos even they address this issue
the dude Yeah we’ve been looking at the MIT article. Just yesterday I ordered an intercooler that’s about 900cm^3. To follow the specs completely it should be like 1000 but it’s close enough to store boost and prevent lag.
I’ll take a look at nugget garage though thanks.
You dont need a boost tank.. A long enough intake runner between the turbo compressor and intake manifold is fine. The problem is the Ecotrons EFI. Look towards timing curves at first because you need to match your flywheel signal with the MAP sensor boost reference (for retarding timing on boost). Also, the Auto-Tuning should be done LAST, mainly due to the fact it does not change the maps very much. You need the more expensive O2 sensor to auto-tune properly, the O2 sensor that comes with the kit is the dumbest/cheapest. PS: fuel map is very rich at first, so I suggest you revert back to the original settings and DONT USE AUTO-TUNE! Had me a heck of a headache when I tried to tune my Ecotrons turbo+efi on a 200cc, because I also auto-tuned idle...
priit mölder ok thanks for the advice, the tank is just for making peak boost and equalizing pressure, it’s not a solution to the problem it’s just a way to optimize
Wow !Timing shift by filing tiny bit on key to advance it a tad.That is just so freaking Awesome.
Know you guys will get it ripping.Have fun.
There’s going to be a learning curve on this one for sure. Wish you would have gave us an update on the rotary. That’s where your going to get all your views.
Great video, but I make the suggestion of running a catch can for the simple fact of letting the crank case breathe especially now with it having a turbo
The oil burning is probably your oil return being to restricted/small. The oil has to "fall" through the turbo.
Yeah exactly, it should be exactly like a gas tank. It should have 0 back pressure or resistance. Tye pressure should also be regulated
Ready to see the rotary!
Yeah man we will be able to start that build in about a week, still stuck at college for finals lol.
Looking forward to completion, now with all your mod's might as well put on an electronic start lol
Great video and love seeing the progress!
G'day guy's so cool l've never seen turbo @ fuel injection on a go kart before ,well done guys. Mal.
awesome!!! great build you guys...do not forget those vaccum line for the waste gate and turbine intake side
JG Trucker
Its not vacuum line. Its boost pressure line
thanks for the info...anyhow, needs to be plugged
where'd you guys get/ the brand of the efi/fuel injection unit and the turbo?
Great job guys
Yasss I've been waiting for this video!!!
Does it have closed loop fueling? What positive pressure will the map handle? Boosting a single cylinder 2v will always be hard especially with a turbo. Be much easier with a blower.
That's why the big bore kit was invented
*Happy spinnyboi noises*
Spaghetti sauce recipe needed for that pile of noodles boys lol good job
What parts did you use I’m trying to turbo my own 6hp Clone engine but on a mini bike would greatly appreciate it if someone would reply to this with a link or sum of these parts used. Love the channel bro
Hey i know its a pain but put the o2 closer to the exhaust turbine itll read more accurately, like 6-8 inches from turbine and then u want like another 8-12 inches of exhaust
Did you guys get the turbo friendly version of the ecotrons kit. You know it needs the bigger injector and the 2 bar map sensor. If not you might have some tuning problems with the turbo and just that small map sensor and injector.
Does this efi have a map sensor or is it all based on throttle Position? Boost is very load dependent and won't come on at a consistent throttle position. Without a map sensor for boost reference it might be difficult to tune. You can try tuning the motor with the inlet pipe removed from the turbo and throttle body. That way you can get a good base tune on the engine without worrying about the variables of boost until you have the engine running properly. Then try using something like a high ratio FMU as a way to richen up the fuel mixture under boost. Best of luck guys!!
jdmjedi777 Yeah it has a map sensor on the intake
It uses a 2.5 bar map sensor (the older kits used a 3 bar)
It still might be easier to tune with the charge pipe removed. That way they can at least get the engine running correctly.
@@jdmjedi777 yes they should base tune completely turbo less including removing it from the exhaust then tune at different lvls of boost and throttle positions also they have the o2 sensor installed wrong it needs to be preturbo 6-8 inches from the cylinder head exhaust port
ok, this is epic
Now all that's next is a racing clutch
By question is if the turbo that have on the motor was ment for a gas engine would it be better to run a turbo off of a diesel engine like a jetta or a beetle be cause they create less flow and heat but would allow the small gas engine to create more boost
I’m no expert, but I do believe that fitting a turbo on a single cylinder engine is quite difficult to get running to its best ability, I believe it has something to do with the valves between exhaust closing and intake opening.
I’m sure you have a build some sort of plenum chamber.
Good luck.
It's the Ecotron turbo literally built for the gy6 1 cylinder 49cc to 300cc motorcycle engine. This stage 4 predator should have no problem with it.
I like to do turbo things!
Now for the real question is the turbo going to make any additional power or is it just an air restriction?
Jon Lasaga That’s what were here to find out, it made more power with a non existent tune and stock engine so it’s looking bright.
They have already run the engine on a dyno and proven that with the stock engine the turbo did add hp. The video is a few back on their channel.
Does ecu include spark control or is that still run by the coils
I’m going to put that same turbo on my civic😂
I'm not at all familiar with the software or ECU you're using, but you should check and see if "mega log viewer" will work with your application. This was absolutely instrumental to the power tuning of my turbo miata.
Nope ecotrons uses their own proprietary software... alot of the efi issues can be resolved just by relocating the O2 sensor to the correct location.
Where do I buy the efi kit??
The efi should run best preformance from 12.5 - 13.5 AFR. Target of 13.1
Do not target 13.1 with boost lol
Those are N/A numbers. For boost I would shoot for 11-11.5.
What's with all the smoke coming out of the muffler? Oil?
Cool work guys.
I wonder where's all that stuff going to be placed 😂😂
Yeah oil, turbo leaks a bit when it isn't on so after a while of running it won't smoke
turbo needs verry little oilpressure might need to put a pressure regulator on the oilfeedline as well
Nice guys!
Boys that kit should have base numbers for you to trim on remember if it’s lean it will run hot and bang out and the leaner you run it the colder heat range spark plug you use
jimmy tillery yeah we’ve been messing with the numbers quite a bit, we didn’t get that much time to mess with it but the software is really complicated, gona take some serious looking at to get right.
@@BuildBreakRepeat you will want to run the afr between 12.5:1 and 13:1 but you need to relocate your o2 sensor first as you are getting a bad o2 sensor reading because of where it's located... what I did to combat this on my extremely modified qmb139 (50cc) motor scooter with ecotrons efi (it now does 80 mph) was at the 8 inch from exhaust port point I installed a 1.75 inch (od) expanded pipe section in my 1.25 inch (od) stainless header to make up for the o2 sensor's flow restriction. It was also the correct point for an exhaust pulse chamber for scavenging. My little 50cc (bored and stroked to 96cc ported and polished to 1.125 inch exhaust port id, intake at 1.375 inch with controlled texture) scooter is calculated at approximately 125% volumetric efficiency naturally aspirated at 13.5:1 afr (perfect afr for na engines)
YEEEEEES!!! Been waiting for this one!!! Will there be another dyno run with the new setup?
Yeah totally!
@@BuildBreakRepeat I think u might break 15 hp this time!!
Lol hopefully we can break 20-25!
@@BuildBreakRepeat maybe. Just gotta make a lot of boost!
@@BuildBreakRepeat You should be a bit over 30 with just the stage 4 kit if my memory serves me right?
Or maybe that's 32-34hp for a stage 4 with NOS? I'm tired and too lazy to go look it up.
Отличное видео. привет из России!!!
Not sure if the O2 sensor was working right but you guys had that thing scary lean. Almost @ 16 consistently....
O2 sensor is too close to the outlet on the muffler. Oxygen will reenter the exhaust causing false lean readings.
@@jc080198 Oh OK, makes total sense. Im not really a small engines person so I wasnt sure if it was ok to lean them out. I just figured with a turbo, the cylinder temps are probably sky high and those engines are prone to deposits, which as u know, would knock the shit out of it, possibly before melting it. Thanks for the tip tho.
DOPE!!!
Love the intro!
what kind of turbo did yall use
O2 sensor shouldn’t be that close the the tip, it’ll backfeed whenever you let off the throttle and mess your ratios up. Other than that looks pretty awesome
Was going to post to say the same thing. O2 sensors do not like being that close to the tip. Especially on a single cylinder, you're going to get a LOT of fresh air feeding on every pulse that's going to really mess with the readings. Their best bet would be to put the bung closer to the turbo, probably in the middle of the U bend they've got. Would read a LOT more accurately there.
is that centrifugal clutch going to be able to grab once those wheels are on the ground?
Stephen Hopefully, it’s a heavy duty one from GPS. It’s the biggest one we can get that’s not a complete racing clutch. Should do the trick.
Hey BBR is there something in that kit that picks up cam positioning ? Or crank positioning?🤔
I can answer that no. Since its only one piston there are just controlling injector pulse. It's basically constantly feeding fuel like a carb just with more control. The map sensor can pick up the boost pressure and increase fuel delivery were as the carb cant tell when it's boosting and can't compensate. Now they do make boost reference carbs or they can be modified to work but not for applications this small. Sorry for long book. Hope this helps a little.
If this works in a 212 predator, I should put this on a 200x three wheeler, where can I find one?
Ecotrons, if you do get one hit them up and tell em to sponsor us lol
Im trying this on a Banshee Build..Fuel injection, using some Frankenstein Donor Sled Parts..Just gotta Find Proper ECU kit
Does the pressure regulator have a boost reference? If not, it's going to shoot way lean when you go into boost!
I don’t think so, it’s just a mechanical valve. I don’t think we are going to have that issue though because the fuel pressure is bigger than what it takes a wot. If we have issues tho I’ll look into it thanks.
@@BuildBreakRepeat no prob! Love the content! Any idea what fuel pressure it's running? Basically injectors need a minimum PSI to atomize/function correctly, and you can loose that as the differential pressure between the intake and fuel become less and less
THIS IS AN ACTUAL FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM similar to what modern cars run... The fuel pressure stays static during operation however the computer adjusts the fuel injector open duration via pwm to compensate and control air fuel ratios based off the map sensor, ignition reference from coil, o2 sensor voltage... (additional sensors based on kit and options)
did you ge tthe ecotrons efi kit or another brand?
Yeah ecotrons
awesome
@@BuildBreakRepeat you may want to relocate the o2 sensor... the sensor needs to be 6-10 inches from the engines exhaust port... the muffler looks to be a spark arresting type with breather port under that mesh thus causing a false air fuel ratio reading
Cool
Yo bro can you post links to where you got the EFI? Great job on all your projects, keep up the good work. I have a little pit bike it has spark fuel air and compression but it isn't starting I've used starting fluid and everything please give me tips. It has a Lifan 70cc 4 speed semi auto engine. Keep up the good work.
It’s an ecotrons Kit, sounds like your engine might have a timing issue, if it has some way to adjust timing I’d look into that. If that’s not this issue it might be your valve lash. But if has good compression I’d say timing.
He gave you good advice. With good compression, fuel and spark, make sure that you have air flow. Remove the intake and confirm that the exhaust isn't clogged. If your valve lash was too tight, you'd get low compression but if it was way too lose, the engine will not cycle the air correctly and cause it's own issues.
Proper timing is also something to look at. Make sure that the cam or chain are properly timed. Make sure that any timing adjustment features aren't malfunctioning.
Good luck.
@@BuildBreakRepeat It has about 180 pounds of compression, it used to have like 78 but i readjusted it it backfires when i kick it over after like 10 kicks. I will have to look into the timing for those engines. If you ever think on anything lemme know. I have a Honda Gx160 and Gx120, where can i find billit parts for those? Do you know if Gx200's and Gx160's parts are compatible? Thanks
@@toolsonthebrain4786 it's definitely a timing issue... check your cam to crank indexing (timing) then make sure your flywheel key isn't sheared as it will give you spark even with the key sheared it just won't stay in proper timing also make sure the flywheel has its magnetic poles in correct orientation and that they are still strongly polarized as that can throw the timing way off and if nothing else listed has worked change your magneto coil as some of those engines had an internally self retarding/advancing coil which were notorious for going bad
We’re did you get the fuel injection setup?
You guys have the best intro Music .. Your videos are always good, Good content.. BBR= Build Bitchen Raceshit... Keep it up..
Dude i fucking love rock hard rock metal, but that fucking intro song is de most annoying nagging song i ever heard.
@@stijn9957 Don't watch videos then or turn volume down... easy solve LOL
should have put the motor behind the rear axel so that the motor is pulling the rear chain not pushing the weight of the whole kart and axel just hope the chain stays on
Where did you get the efi kit
👌
Why not do a draw through setup ?
I was thinking the same thing. The only problem with draw through is fuel puddleing but there's not much boost piping so probably would happen. I know alot of people do the draw through on the old aircooled vw. I think there just wanting to make something work thats different. I totally dig it cause they are going to learn so much by making this work. It took me years of reading articles to get were im at and still learn every day.
Draw through is usually for a carburetor setup and not very efficient on efi engines. This is now fuel injected so all the benefits of a modern engine can be applied.
Where can I get the EFI kit?
Sweetttt
For anybody looking for a very accessible (cheap) EFI option, should look into the P59 ECU (2003-2007 Silverado, Tahoe, Sierra, Yukon, Express, Savanna, H2, Corvette, etc.) There's a nice beta base tune and instructions made by some weird nerd that looks like he hasn't shaved in 10 years.
Got everything but the starter lol
Where did they get the efi
I thought fuel injectors needed high-pressure fuel like 1000 to 2500 psi how do you get that with only a electric high-pressure fuel pump that only puts out what? 40 plus psi
But where r u ganna put all the tubes and wires
This same efi kit on Aliexpress is 250$ shipped
what EFI Kit is it ?
Pablo Garcia ecotrons
@@BuildBreakRepeat cool i thought it was Speeduino
Get ahold of faster proms hes with cleetus McFarland great guys there tuning brains like 18 years good luck looks awesome
No turbo sound?
Where I can buy one of those(efi kit)
I believe what they are using based off what I've installed myself is a ecotrons efi setup or a knockoff of their kit
Ecotrons.com
D L thanks bro
the most expensive go kart in the world
Can I buy the old engine?
I'm hyped for the 0.2B go kart
Got it?
0.2B
Like 13B, but since its 200cc....
Ok i'll leave.
Now adding a CVT clutch will really make it fast
Boost
👍👍😮
Can someone send me the link from where you can buy that
no blow off valve?
JP M not enough boost to really matter yet.
boys. i just found the same thing on ebay for 300
Yeah I know what kit your talking about, the problem is that they max out at 200cc and you can’t tune them.
Thats because all it is is a few re-purposed scooter and motorcycle parts etrons gathers up and slaps their logo on. Shop around on some chinese sites and you can find it in the $150-200 range if you want to wait a month for shipping.
@@BuildBreakRepeat Oh i see.
@@user-neo71665 that is completely wrong... ecotrons was making these kits well before scooters and atvs even had the option for fuel injection. they make most of the hard parts and the software is made themselves. If anything those Chinese kits are rip offs of their kits. The components they use are much better quality and their kits are fully tunable unlike the chineseum knock offs.
no... those don't belong in small engines
you need to instal intercooler
You guys didnt hook up the waste gate.
SVXTI
No need for it
Going
You guys should of left it 1 wheel peel
I like the work you do but my god don’t you make out things are more complicated than they are 🤣 got more money than sense 🤣
seem to me timing was off and fuel was lean.
burns oil like crazy... check the turbo oil return and feed.... something is wrong there...
We think it’s because the system has too much oil in it to evacuate out of the turbo. It did it last time but after it burnt enough oil it was fine lol. Wish we had a better solution but I have no idea how much oil it needs so I’d rather have more than less.