The ALMOST Perfect Drum Set for Churches
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2024
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0:00 Introduction to the DWE Electric Drum Kit
01:11 The Aesthetic Appeal: Real-Looking Drums
03:03 Innovative Wireless Technology
04:53 Sound Quality and Customization
10:07 Considering Setup and Usability
10:44 The Deal Breaker: Loud Cymbals
14:15 Conclusion and Recommendations
• • • • •
Disclaimer: This video and description contain affiliate links.
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I wasn't expecting to hear a shout out when I opened this video, thank you! 🙏 Great work on this. It's really interesting to get a review from your perspective and to see the kit in action. Hearing you hit those cymbals in that room is something else!
Well deserved Luke! You are alot of peoples go to channel for everything Edrums! Nothing against any other creators.
Thanks for featuring these! I'm not sound tech-y or drummer-y enough to know the pros and cons of everything, but definitely love seeing what's out there!
Jake, your videos are not known for their comic styling but the beginning of this video cracked me up . Very nice!
Jake, that was a great, honest review. Well done.
A couple quick things: Thanks for mentioning "C-weighting" for your SPL readings ("90-95 deciBels"). However, it's best to reference A-weighting for worship (better following the way our ears hear). C-weighting is a great corollary for checking bass balance (as approx. 6dB higher than A-weighting, is generally a "balanced" mix; a bass-heavy mix would be more like 10dB higher than A-weighting, and less than 6dB increased weighting could be considered a thinner mix).
Also, in the live worship demo, the kit didn't sound balanced. The kick sounded odd, the cymbals sounded thin. Is it difficult to dial in a full and balanced kit sound on this kit?
We demo'd the kit at a local dealer last week. We were already reluctant on this option with the laptop, but the noise of the "metal" cymbals was a complete 100% roadblock for us. They actually don't feel any better with the metal tops, and we would argue that they felt worse than the Roland cymbals.
As for your Dante Virtual Sound Card comment.... I don't think that the latency will work out there. You're already loading up the CPU with short buffers to keep the latency down on the kit. If you also try to run DVS with short buffers you're just not going to have enough CPU to make it happen. I welcome someone proving me wrong, but this just gets back to why the laptop is a less than ideal variable in the setup.
You are 100% right on the DVS buffer. There is just no way it will work.
We recently switched over to a the Roland V-drum kit, but we kept our actual cymbals (a combination of Heartbeat Custom Dry and Dream Bliss) and it's been a killer combination. Really flexible I/O but we still have a natural stick feel for the player and a natural wash in the mix.
Do you have videos? Very interested!
I've played this kit as well and another deal breaker for me (like with every other e-kit) is that the drummer is limited to only using sticks. Creative drumming is expanded these days with rods, mallets, brushes, hands and other ways to draw a wide range of sounds from a kit. Yes, there are many sound samples available in the library, but the nuances of using creative sounds comes from the very playing techniques and implements used to make those sounds. Using sticks and a "brush" setting on an e-kit is like telling a guitarist to swap out their guitar for a Guitar Hero controller. We need to teach our drummers to play with nuance and feel and use the creative implements that are available in the acoustic realm; then we don't have to resort to making them play imitation instruments.
The reality is you can’t get drummers to play with nuance, even if they have the best intentions. When the room dictates, drummers should be willing to take one for the greater good. Guitar and bass players give up their amps on the regular. I know that’s not as big of a change as e-drums, but your comment about the guitar hero contoller is way off.
If electronic is desired, go hybrid with Heartbeat or K Custom Dark cymbals that can be managed a bit better volume-wise - I've played such a set up and it worked well even in a smaller venue... \m/
We just got a Roland VAD507 kit. It looks real and sounds great!
I dislike the term “real” and the stigma of edrums verses acoustic drums. You do not hear this crap about guitars and keyboards.
@barrycomer3688 This is all about context.
Guitars are a totally different story. It's not like an electric guitar is emulating an acoustic guitar. Keyboards vs. pianos are better compared, but unless you're specifically only emulating a piano sound, it doesn't matter. Most people are building multiple sounds (pads, synth, pianos, organs) into one sound. You can't do that on a piano, so it's not the same. Keyboards are standard.
For the most part, the main reason to use an electric set, at least for me, is to control the sound in smaller rooms and simplify setup by not having to run mics/cables. A lower end kit does not look appealing or professional on stage. The REAL shells make a difference for the look on stage forsure.
The tech is super cool, I think once it gets fleshed out and brought down in price (after early adoption) then it could be a big hit for church’s that want drums but literally can’t, even with a shield and everything. Unfortunately due to cost, you could still get a decent Ludwig kit fully mic’d with a full enclosure for cheaper then this E-kit.
Exactly, the price tag alone is not worth it. Besides I enjoy Ludwig over DW any day ;)
@@oysterhead5150I recently heard Ludwig is a part of Dw now 🤔
hey.... emmm what lighting were u using?
Awesome 👍🏻😊
I love this new tech, and will probably hold off getting a new Ekit until we see what Roland or other companies do with this new wireless.
I do wonder who decided it would be the best idea to make the cymbals metal. Its seems to be a major issue with most people ( I certainly would never buy them) with an otherwise perfect execution of this game changing technology.
We'll see how long it take for them to change it. I'm sure the cymbal volume is a deal breaker for most people.
Be worth checkin out the Adoro "Silent Sticks" as well
Drummer of over 30 years here… I personally am not a fan of electric drums, I am really against the sustain and dynamics that they have compared to an electric kit. My worship pastor has recently asked for us to make the change to this kit, and after some spirit searching I agreed to go to our local drum shop (Drum Center of Portsmouth, in NH) and try them out. I have to say that they are impressive in the way they feel and the dynamics and sustain have actually come far enough along I can close my eyes and almost believe I’m behind an acoustic kit. I’m impressed to say the least. I’m still against electric drums, but I’m willing to adjust for my team and their ability to improve online sound and production. I agree with the concern with the cymbals, he is not wrong… I would offer this suggestion for anyone considering the kit. Remember there are small glass, or plastic circulars that can be purchased for sound deflection, these may be enough to prevent the bleed. That’s at least my thoughts on our church design.
Happy Drumming!!
I appreciate your ability to take one for the team, very few drummers are willing to do that.
U ever try the premium Drum-Tec / Pearl mimic a try?, pretty awesome.
Wonder if it would be possible to put a rubber piece on the cymbal to silence it a little and still get the proper trigger response for the sound activation with the triggers?
They already have rubber on the underside, but it would also also impact the triggers too. There are a few videos of other people that have helped testing asked that.
Is it not possible to use real low volume cymbals (the ones with many holes eg. Millenium Still Series Cymbal Set )
and amplify the sound with microphones around the cymbals?
Sadly the low-volume cymbals mostly do not deliver a pleasing musical sound. They are useful for quiet practice to develop drum skills, but don't give a musical sound that could just be amplified to serve the music. It could be possible to put a trigger on them to drive cymbal samples, but clean triggering would be very difficult.
You can use lemon rubber cymbals.
Any details on the total latency? What about the wireless frequencies that are used, and are they adjustable?
Have a search for the DWe kits. I think the latency is sub 2ms. Its absolutely astonishing.
They’ll probably come out with a stripped down rubber cymbal option eventually. Either that, or the Roland kits will upgrade to wireless
Question --> If possible to complete "skip" the mixer , so I can use the FOH console e.g a Digico or so ???
The mixer he is talking about is just being used to output the audio from the Soundworks software. Any audio interface can work.
He's using a mixer so he can assign separate outputs from each drum to FOH
Ok - thanks. So I can really pass by the "internal mixer" an send the audio signal like a miced drumset or ???@@StereoAnthony
i would say they sound great and are good if you can actually swap the cymbals for accoustic ones, in which case you still have to run cables for overheads - and have a very carefull sound aware drummer who will not mess up the balance between trigered sounds and accoustic sounds
Yeah we thought about this. I think it could work for some churches.
Doesn't that defeat the purpose of going electronic? In my experience they cymbals are the problem, not the drums.
For acoustic drums that won't overwhelm everything else, check out Parish Drum Designs - Joey Parish designed a kit specifically to not need shields. I have no connection whatsoever, just like how they sound.
Good to hear. Thanks for the tip!
It’s the cymbals that are always the problem, not the drums themselves, in my (admittedly somewhat limited) experience.
@@meptwal Yes. Usually so. Sometimes also the snare crack.
the cost makes it a no-go for a regular church
I think there COULD be a way to use the inbuilt triggers, AND put acoustic heads on for the drummer's playing comfort...Don't mic it unless for "show" Use something like the Evans Hydraulics. ABSOLUTELY use acoustic cymbals!!
Also, I'd say laptop stand is the *only* proper use of a cajon.
Those cymbals are exactly why you see the photos of electronic drums inside a cage, and then people making fun of that because they don't understand how loud the unnatural noise of hitting the cymbals is
In case you did not know Roland owns DW bought them last year I believe
i did know that! wow that will be a game changer and I image we will see swift development on this drum set.
They just added an update to the Roland TD50X to use these trigger with that module
Use the DWE with the Roland TD50 module. Then you can run rubber Roland cymbals.
I can appreciate the idea, but I'll always stick to the acoustic as a drummer/church drummer
He said electric! ⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡
👍
I’m curious why the wireless is such a big deal, an acoustic set has a whole bunch of mic cables hanging all over it. 🤷♂️
I thought, the frontman of band The Almost will be talking 😅
Get a baffle for the electric cymbals 😂
The perfect drum set for churches is to start with an amazing drummer
MORE COWBELL!!!
Those cymbals sort of ruin the whole thing because they use a proprietary system that makes it impossible to just swap them out. I suspect that metal would be nice because the attack is more similar to the sample you are triggering, and they would look a million times better. If anyone is old enough to remember Simmons pads, they were really noisy - like those DW cymbals.
Doesn't Roland make edrums with shells? Maybe those would make more sense for your church.
Con: it’s $9000+
boomers are still going to complain about volume with this
most churches aren't going to spend 10K on a drum kit. lol.
Yeah the drum is great for electric… but for that much I rather get a Dw collectors or performance with all hardware and cymbals.
Also you forgot you to mention the very costly price tag of this kit, 10k is going to be way out of budget for most churches, with maybe the exception of mega churches that can afford it. DW needs to come out with an entry level kit for half the price, why was it necessary for them to make this kit out of their top of the line series (Collectors)? Besides all that, wireless electronic drums are new technology, I would wait several years so all the bugs can be ironed out.
I've played $10,000 electronic sets. The mesh heads don't rebound like a normal acoustic set. And the drummers playing this set developed wrist problems from having to "lift up your stick" instead of relying on the rebound of a traditional head. My issue with electronic drums is you hear a "tone". You can't really tune them to a specific note which is very helpful in a lot of circumstances. Most people don't notice but professionals notice it right away.
The wrist thing used to be a thing on the older pads that where pretty solid to hit, like the late 80's, Tama and Simmons pads. I have been playing Roland Electric drums since 1994 where all the pads where rubber circles and have no wrist issues at all. The newer sets you can tension the mesh like an acoustic, most people think the mesh is to bouncy, and the cymbals move and flex more than ever.
In some cases it's either e-Drums or a plexi drum condo. On our stage, which functions like an Amphitheater, and is very small, e-Drums are the only solution.
Drum-tec Real Feel mesh heads are as close to acoustic heads as you can get.
@@barrycomer3688 good to know
Just tighten them without getting a high pitch
You lost me at batteries, wireless and computer. We got enough batteries and frequencies on stage now to worry about. Then computer ...
Roland Vdrums the way to go if you want electric kit that looks acoustic
Yeah we use a TD-50x kit and won't look back.
So many people listen with their eyes... Just look at the overwhelming number of churches that can't stand to see a keyboard so they gut an acoustic piano and use it as a keyboard stand.
In light of that a lot of edrummers went to mounting various triggers inside real drums a long time ago and with a tiny bit of creative cable management, those are less noticeable than mics/cables all over a kit and no batteries/wireless points of failure.
Those cymbals let this kit down - most of the time cymbals are barely visible to the congregation anyway and with some creative angle positioning they vanish on camera if you want them to. In any case, it is way better than trying to mic up an acoustic kit (usually done wrong and/or poorly maintained) and then vainly attempt to muffle it behind plexiglass
I agree 100%. The "I don't like seeing the cables" argument is like, what do you mean? The microphones have cables. Now the cables just plug into the drums instead.
It's not about the cables, they just don't like the look.
I just want to plug and play. Now you have to worry about adding a computer + Interface and configuration. Roland Electric Kit is the way to go. We Talking about almost $10K. That is just overpriced.
Kind of agree. It’s a lot for what you get.
Put rubber tips on the sticks.
9000$ kit for churches. Sure, MEGAchurches. Not every church, that's ungodly expensive.
just put some rubber covers on them bad boys, if they will fit
Cymbals. Literally the only part of drums mentioned in the Bible.😂
Nooo, no electric drums. A Drumer prefer acustic! Thank you for sharing!
damn all these rich churches haha you would think they will help the ones that need it with that money and get a set that costs half and does the same
Any e kit is a con kit.
Ick $9000 and the cymbals make a terrible clack sound. The only electric cymbals I’ve found to be quiet and work good are the Gen16 hybrid cymbals and the Roland Rubber cymbals.
Worship drummer? What's that?
Your washed-out, overexposed camera adjustments and lighting are SO distracting...
yeah they got rid of their editor.
The sound is not awesome 😢
yeah I did not like it ... and also , the cymbals sound very wired .... I dont know , I still stick with acoustic and in my church I only use acoustic .... Gretsch Renown , Amazing kit.
Sorry but on the demo, it didnt sound great
that's why I said in this video go refer to other great videos on youtube to get a better sense of how drummers like it and the sounds they create. What you hear in this video is the result of 10 minutes spent poking around DW soundworks and a raw multitrack of the kit.
🤮🤮
No true drummer would choose this over a real acoustic kit and especially cymbals. And typical overpriced DW crap.
No true believer would put his own ego over the entire congregation's benefit.
Okay but if the power goes out on a Sunday morning, you’re s.o.l.. acoustic kit, you can still play with the acoustic guitar
🫳
🎤
yeah, you can totally hear the vocals over the drums...🙄 Not to mention you won't be able to see anything in our sanctuary.