I used to paint nuclear Submarines. I'll tell you WHY the alcohol works. You've just explained EXACTLY, what processes I used to go through. We would degrease an area first , with a water based degreaser...THEN use the isopropyl alcohol to dry out and repel , the water in the pores of the metal. I imagine plastic isn't much different. Microscopically, EVERYTHING has pores.
I’m going to have to try the alcohol. I’ve heard some claim that soaking in alcohol leaches out some chemical in the pvc making the bones material slightly harder. No idea if that’s actually true.
I did note in an earlier video that they seem less rubbery. But I think that is just them being drier? I am not sure. The PVC material should already be hydrophobic so I dunno if it just gets rid of extra oil on the surface?
I've used iso alcohol on mine, I use it on pretty much all my minis before painting. If you look closely you can see that it leaves a kind of white residue on some materials, and I'm assuming this aids the adhesion some how. If you get it on your hands and let it evaporate you will see what I mean.
Some softer plastics are soluble in IPA, this just leads to more of a refining of the petro byproduct. The alcohol is a solvent basically where acetone is a much stronger solvent and is in one of the liquid plastic welds I have from when I was doing model scenery. Back to isopropyl, if used too long it can leave tiny cracks and a residue, can cause color fading (of the plastic), the term for this is crazing. There could also be an additive in reaper minis that is soluble in IPA, I'm not sure what the composition of them are and don't want to dissolve one of mine to inaccurately find out. Hopefully this was helpful. I work with plastics, another fun fact if you are ever irritated by fiberglass use peroxide it dissolves the stuff.
Appreciate the video, about to paint Ma'al Drakar. In the paint trades, urethane primers are used on any form of plastic/vinyl. Acrylics won't chemically bond.
Yeah you can get OK results using a thick coat of Reaper HD on Bones but frankly I have seen way better results with poly urethane primers like Vallejo.
Thanks for posting the video. After cleaning the the Bones 3 (soft PVC) miniatures with soap, these are the results of my tests: 1. Vallejo Black Surface (paint on) primer - works just fine as noted in the video 2. Vallejo Grey Surface (paint on) primer - seems not to work as good as the black one. Another problem is that it is very light and hard to see if the entire mini was properly covered (this may be the reason why it didn't work as good as the black). Mixing with the black vallejo surface (paint-on)primer is an option which works. 3. Vallejo spray on Black and Gray - initially seemed to work, after 24 hrs the minis became VERY sticky, however they do take paint - not a nice feeling when painting. Definitely don't recommend it 4. Vallejo spray on White - minis are less stickier than the Black and Gray, but still sticky. The paint sticks, same as no.3 5. Citadel Chaos Black spray on - so far worked on the minis just fine. Miniatures are not sticky and they take thinned/diluted paint well. 6. Citadel Corax White spray on - also works fine, like no. 5. I also used it for zenithal priming and it works fine. In summary, the two primers from citadel, chaos black and corax white, worked fine for me and I had no problems so far (sprayed about 50 minis). Vallejo paint on primers work just fine as well, but it's a bit more time consuming - a large synthetic brush (size 4-5-6 etc) should help speed things up. Why do these two primers work, I have no idea - i applied them in a warm space, a bit above room temperature (23/4 C). Good luck folks, and have fun.
I've found spray primer works fine on the larger Bones models, and have had mixed resluts on "human" sized ones. I'm going to try your method out, thanks for posting it.
I have found that the Large minis keep paint really well compared to the smaller ones. With my Deathsleet bones white dragon I just used a coat of Reaper HD to basecoat it and it hasn't lost any paint at all!
I actually seal Bones miniatures with Vallejo Brush on Varnish rather that spray sealer. Sometimes spray sealer doesn't work the best on bones. I have used spray sealer over the brush on varnish sometimes and that seems to work OK. But mostly just two layers of watered down brush on matte varnish seems to work the best.
Month to late! I just got a hoard of bones a month ago either way I used army painter spray primer and it was actually really nice it’s passes the thumb test and normally spray primer sucks on them but I think I got great results. Great video! Ps. I use enamel paints so mine may stick a little differently as enamels just go on way better than acrylics they are way thicker and stick better so I guess using cheap paint on cheap miniatures works. Edit: I live in Alberta, Canada it’s dry as hell here maybe that’s why it works for me
Thanks as always for the advice! Do you have any experience painting the D&D board game sets miniatures? I have nearly every one of the games from Ashardalon to the ToA set and I have a backlog of miniatures from them to paint? They do not appear to be PVC but semi hard "army-man" style of plastic. Army painter primer seems to be holding well, but I had to do several light coats to achieve the effect I wanted.
So for that sort of plastic I just washed them regularly and used Krylon ColorMaster Primer. (NOT primer+paint) They seem to take most spray primers well.
Yep spray paint works great for any kind of hard plastic or resin miniatures. This softer PVC material well generally you just have to use some sort of acrylic polyurethane primer. Vallejo badger ext.
What exactly happened when you used the GW black primer with them? Did it leave them tacky. I used it on some of my reaper miniatures that I have already painted and haven’t noticed any problems yet
@@patricknewton9872 the primer would not adhere to the pvc surface. After a week left to cure, the primer would rub off and when set in place the paint would fight and pull together. I dont know if GW still sells the pot version of their black primer.
Yes I have used many types of spray primer on Reaper bones under ideal conditions. Ideal conditions including temperature and very low humidity. Only once did I get an OK result. I got much better results from the Vallejo surface primer brushed on.
Thanks! Warhammer figures take most primers well. Most people don't even bother washing them first unless they get handled a bunch. If you use Vallejo surface primer just remember to let them dry for a full 24 hours. If you want to use a spray primer get a high quality one and do it when there isn't extreme humidity. If you happen to have any cheap minis try priming them first. I dunno what the weather is like but I am using Vallejo surface primer (Which can be bought at most hobby stores and gaming stores) because it's so cold here.
@@skellywendtgeisler3373 Well I would test it on one mini. Apparently on the Dakka dakka forum they use Rust-oilum primer and it works OK www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/497571.page
@@skellywendtgeisler3373 Remember test on one mini first and wait 24 hours to see if there are any adverse effects. Follow the can directions and use short bursts. ua-cam.com/video/k1srek0pono/v-deo.html
That was a terrifically helpful video. Thanks a lot. P.S. Can you review those (www.miniaturemarket.com/vpg09023.html) at some point in the future. They are 28mm so they should fit nicely with WizKids stuff.
uros ignja Yep... It's anoying...the only miniatures in my area are...caesar, prepainted wizkids and (for some reasson, I don't know why) some ral partha miniatures (?)
Blandco Yeah, but the store that I was able to find them has a weird habbit of selling the miniatures for only a limited amount of time so, the older series are GONE...
I keep finding all these videos recommending $12 primer. For all you beginners, you don't need to pay $12 for 2 mL of primer at the hobby store. Grab a can of Colorplace Flat Spraypaint at Wal-Mart for a $1.98. Don't listen to these people that say you need Citadel and Vallejo brand stuff. You just don't. Save your money. Buy generic acrylic paints and water them down. They work fine. As long as you don't actively attempt to scrape off the paint like he's doing in this video, it's going to stay on during normal play and wear and tear, so long as you add a good coat of varnish after your final coat of paint, (and give all the coats proper time to dry in between). And even then, a decent varnish should hold unless you take a fucking knife to it (like he also does in the video). If you're playing with kids, just accept that your models are going to get fucked up regardless. This video below offers more suggestions on how to avoid spending your life savings just to paint minis: ua-cam.com/video/i9697PS-RA8/v-deo.html
This is about painting Reaper Bones made from PVC material. Reaper bones cannot be spray primed with a rattle can in my experience. On the official Reaper forums they do not recommend spray priming. I know from personal experience that using spray primer on Reaper Bones doesn't work well. You can get a prime that will not dry properly or get a prime that flakes off at the slightest touch. Only ONCE did I ever personally get a good prime on Reaper Bones from spray primer and that was inferior to the method I show in this video. Vallejo costs like $9 for 60 ml. Or 200 ml for $17. Or find a deal on another polyurethane primer. Badger works just as well. And again I can tell people Vallejo actually works when priming Reaper Bones. So you should take that into account when considering the price of alternatives. Your advice would have people literally wasting money on something that probably won't work as well. How is encouraging people to use a method that literally everyone else on the internet has found to be inferior a good thing just because it's about half the price of a method that has been proven to work? You can use whatever acrylic paints you want over a proper prime coat. This video did not claim you needed to spend money on expensive paints. You are on the wrong channel if you want to spread disinformation. The video that you link all shows official GW models which are made of a completely different material than Bones. You can actually prime that material with spray primer successfully. GW models are also way more expensive than the stuff I talk about so I have no clue why you are talking about saving money then linking a video about the most expensive miniatures on the market now.
I used to paint nuclear Submarines.
I'll tell you WHY the alcohol works. You've just explained EXACTLY, what processes I used to go through. We would degrease an area first , with a water based degreaser...THEN use the isopropyl alcohol to dry out and repel , the water in the pores of the metal. I imagine plastic isn't much different. Microscopically, EVERYTHING has pores.
Yeah! Thank you for the explanation!
I’m going to have to try the alcohol. I’ve heard some claim that soaking in alcohol leaches out some chemical in the pvc making the bones material slightly harder. No idea if that’s actually true.
I have no clue. All I know is that the PVC seems drier after soaking in alcohol.
I did note in an earlier video that they seem less rubbery. But I think that is just them being drier? I am not sure. The PVC material should already be hydrophobic so I dunno if it just gets rid of extra oil on the surface?
I've used iso alcohol on mine, I use it on pretty much all my minis before painting. If you look closely you can see that it leaves a kind of white residue on some materials, and I'm assuming this aids the adhesion some how. If you get it on your hands and let it evaporate you will see what I mean.
Some softer plastics are soluble in IPA, this just leads to more of a refining of the petro byproduct. The alcohol is a solvent basically where acetone is a much stronger solvent and is in one of the liquid plastic welds I have from when I was doing model scenery. Back to isopropyl, if used too long it can leave tiny cracks and a residue, can cause color fading (of the plastic), the term for this is crazing. There could also be an additive in reaper minis that is soluble in IPA, I'm not sure what the composition of them are and don't want to dissolve one of mine to inaccurately find out. Hopefully this was helpful. I work with plastics, another fun fact if you are ever irritated by fiberglass use peroxide it dissolves the stuff.
I like that tip for cleaning with alcohol after the detergent wash. Will try that on some of the Bones I'll be painting soon.
It's always worked out well for me! Let me know how it works for you.
Appreciate the video, about to paint Ma'al Drakar. In the paint trades, urethane primers are used on any form of plastic/vinyl. Acrylics won't chemically bond.
Yeah you can get OK results using a thick coat of Reaper HD on Bones but frankly I have seen way better results with poly urethane primers like Vallejo.
Thanks for posting the video. After cleaning the the Bones 3 (soft PVC) miniatures with soap, these are the results of my tests:
1. Vallejo Black Surface (paint on) primer - works just fine as noted in the video
2. Vallejo Grey Surface (paint on) primer - seems not to work as good as the black one. Another problem is that it is very light and hard to see if the entire mini was properly covered (this may be the reason why it didn't work as good as the black). Mixing with the black vallejo surface (paint-on)primer is an option which works.
3. Vallejo spray on Black and Gray - initially seemed to work, after 24 hrs the minis became VERY sticky, however they do take paint - not a nice feeling when painting. Definitely don't recommend it
4. Vallejo spray on White - minis are less stickier than the Black and Gray, but still sticky. The paint sticks, same as no.3
5. Citadel Chaos Black spray on - so far worked on the minis just fine. Miniatures are not sticky and they take thinned/diluted paint well.
6. Citadel Corax White spray on - also works fine, like no. 5. I also used it for zenithal priming and it works fine.
In summary, the two primers from citadel, chaos black and corax white, worked fine for me and I had no problems so far (sprayed about 50 minis). Vallejo paint on primers work just fine as well, but it's a bit more time consuming - a large synthetic brush (size 4-5-6 etc) should help speed things up.
Why do these two primers work, I have no idea - i applied them in a warm space, a bit above room temperature (23/4 C).
Good luck folks, and have fun.
I've found spray primer works fine on the larger Bones models, and have had mixed resluts on "human" sized ones. I'm going to try your method out, thanks for posting it.
I have found that the Large minis keep paint really well compared to the smaller ones. With my Deathsleet bones white dragon I just used a coat of Reaper HD to basecoat it and it hasn't lost any paint at all!
Did you seal all your minis with clear matte spray after painting all the colors?
I actually seal Bones miniatures with Vallejo Brush on Varnish rather that spray sealer. Sometimes spray sealer doesn't work the best on bones. I have used spray sealer over the brush on varnish sometimes and that seems to work OK. But mostly just two layers of watered down brush on matte varnish seems to work the best.
@@Blandco thanks!
What about sealant?
Did you put the acrylic brush on primer in a wet pallet or just in a container?
Month to late! I just got a hoard of bones a month ago either way I used army painter spray primer and it was actually really nice it’s passes the thumb test and normally spray primer sucks on them but I think I got great results. Great video! Ps. I use enamel paints so mine may stick a little differently as enamels just go on way better than acrylics they are way thicker and stick better so I guess using cheap paint on cheap miniatures works.
Edit: I live in Alberta, Canada it’s dry as hell here maybe that’s why it works for me
Thanks as always for the advice! Do you have any experience painting the D&D board game sets miniatures? I have nearly every one of the games from Ashardalon to the ToA set and I have a backlog of miniatures from them to paint? They do not appear to be PVC but semi hard "army-man" style of plastic. Army painter primer seems to be holding well, but I had to do several light coats to achieve the effect I wanted.
So for that sort of plastic I just washed them regularly and used Krylon
ColorMaster Primer. (NOT primer+paint) They seem to take most spray primers well.
Washed mina and used Vallejo Surface primer Spray on mine, they hold up great. Think most primers will work on that line tbh.
What do you put on minis after painting?
Vallejo brush on matte varnish for Reaper Bones. I water it down a bit. And I make sure to brush it on lightly and get rid of pools.
I use the GW black primer and it doesn't work on these miniatures at all. It's perfect for the plastic ones though
Yep spray paint works great for any kind of hard plastic or resin miniatures. This softer PVC material well generally you just have to use some sort of acrylic polyurethane primer. Vallejo badger ext.
@@Blandco I prime with the bottled version. Don't even go near the spray techniques due to high humidity problems :(
What exactly happened when you used the GW black primer with them? Did it leave them tacky. I used it on some of my reaper miniatures that I have already painted and haven’t noticed any problems yet
@@patricknewton9872 the primer would not adhere to the pvc surface. After a week left to cure, the primer would rub off and when set in place the paint would fight and pull together. I dont know if GW still sells the pot version of their black primer.
Aww, I missed a contest...
Honestly, just washing in soapy water and black craft paint works fine for me
spray primer works on a warm day of low humidity. that's how it cures.
Yes I have used many types of spray primer on Reaper bones under ideal conditions. Ideal conditions including temperature and very low humidity. Only once did I get an OK result. I got much better results from the Vallejo surface primer brushed on.
@@Blandco only once i got a very bad result. once was enough, i'm now using the Vallejo surface primer. Also awaiting Bones IV?
I made it 80 likes 😇
Edit: thank u this was super helpful, got any tips for priming warhammer 4k figures? I got nightvault a few weeks ago.
Thanks! Warhammer figures take most primers well. Most people don't even bother washing them first unless they get handled a bunch. If you use Vallejo surface primer just remember to let them dry for a full 24 hours. If you want to use a spray primer get a high quality one and do it when there isn't extreme humidity. If you happen to have any cheap minis try priming them first. I dunno what the weather is like but I am using Vallejo surface primer (Which can be bought at most hobby stores and gaming stores) because it's so cold here.
Blandco me and my dad bought the rust-oilum primer in white and black those ok?
@@skellywendtgeisler3373 Well I would test it on one mini. Apparently on the Dakka dakka forum they use Rust-oilum primer and it works OK
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/497571.page
@@skellywendtgeisler3373 Remember test on one mini first and wait 24 hours to see if there are any adverse effects. Follow the can directions and use short bursts. ua-cam.com/video/k1srek0pono/v-deo.html
Blandco thanks my dude
That was a terrifically helpful video. Thanks a lot.
P.S. Can you review those (www.miniaturemarket.com/vpg09023.html) at some point in the future. They are 28mm so they should fit nicely with WizKids stuff.
That is an interesting thing. I have not heard about those minis before. I will have to see if I can get a good deal on them somewhere.
Never primed any of my Bones. Just wash them well.
I feel that the polyurethane primer provides a superior durability. I guess it depends on how much handling your miniatures are going to get.
At least you can get reaper bones, I'm one of the unlucky people living in...
.............
uros ignja Yep... It's anoying...the only miniatures in my area are...caesar, prepainted wizkids and (for some reasson, I don't know why) some ral partha miniatures (?)
Companies still make casts of the Ral Partha stuff.
Blandco No...I mean those miniatures are listed as ral partha miniatures...weird..
Hey don't feel too bad. Have you seen the unpainted Nolzur's miniatures around? Those are good.
Blandco Yeah, but the store that I was able to find them has a weird habbit of selling the miniatures for only a limited amount of time so, the older series are GONE...
I keep finding all these videos recommending $12 primer.
For all you beginners, you don't need to pay $12 for 2 mL of primer at the hobby store. Grab a can of Colorplace Flat Spraypaint at Wal-Mart for a $1.98.
Don't listen to these people that say you need Citadel and Vallejo brand stuff. You just don't.
Save your money. Buy generic acrylic paints and water them down. They work fine.
As long as you don't actively attempt to scrape off the paint like he's doing in this video, it's going to stay on during normal play and wear and tear, so long as you add a good coat of varnish after your final coat of paint, (and give all the coats proper time to dry in between). And even then, a decent varnish should hold unless you take a fucking knife to it (like he also does in the video).
If you're playing with kids, just accept that your models are going to get fucked up regardless.
This video below offers more suggestions on how to avoid spending your life savings just to paint minis:
ua-cam.com/video/i9697PS-RA8/v-deo.html
This is about painting Reaper Bones made from PVC material. Reaper bones cannot be spray primed with a rattle can in my experience. On the official Reaper forums they do not recommend spray priming.
I know from personal experience that using spray primer on Reaper Bones doesn't work well. You can get a prime that will not dry properly or get a prime that flakes off at the slightest touch. Only ONCE did I ever personally get a good prime on Reaper Bones from spray primer and that was inferior to the method I show in this video.
Vallejo costs like $9 for 60 ml. Or 200 ml for $17. Or find a deal on another polyurethane primer. Badger works just as well.
And again I can tell people Vallejo actually works when priming Reaper Bones. So you should take that into account when considering the price of alternatives.
Your advice would have people literally wasting money on something that probably won't work as well.
How is encouraging people to use a method that literally everyone else on the internet has found to be inferior a good thing just because it's about half the price of a method that has been proven to work?
You can use whatever acrylic paints you want over a proper prime coat. This video did not claim you needed to spend money on expensive paints.
You are on the wrong channel if you want to spread disinformation.
The video that you link all shows official GW models which are made of a completely different material than Bones. You can actually prime that material with spray primer successfully. GW models are also way more expensive than the stuff I talk about so I have no clue why you are talking about saving money then linking a video about the most expensive miniatures on the market now.