Audi TT Mk1 3.2 VR6 / VW R32 Engine Deep Dive
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- #auditt #audittmk1 #vr6engine #auditt8n
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Audi TT mk1 3.2 VR6 engine is a very popular powerplant that also comes in the VW R32 Golf amongst other cars.
This video is a VR6 Engine review video that will discuss problems with a VR6 Engine, VR6 Chain Elongation, VR6 Engine failure and how to protect your VR6 engine. It also it also explains how a VR6 Engine works.
I will discuss the history of VR6 Engines, how to check the timing chains and of course the chain elongation and chain stretch issue that affects the Audi and VW cars the engine comes in.
I have to thank David Smith for bringing a great report on the engine to my attention.
This report was written by Christian Schlenger and Michael Lorch and is called Timing chain elongation on the Audi A3 3.2 quattro VR6 although covers the golf and Audi TT too.
You can download the german version of this report at:
www.a3quattro.de/index.php?pag...
You can convert it to English using an online translator. I do have a copy in English that was converted by david. If you would like a copy, please email me.
Please do let me know what you think via the comments section.
I hope you enjoy my Audi TT Mk1 3.2 VR6 Engine Deep Dive and you to can answer the question "How does a VR6 Engine work?"
Thanks for watching!
00:00 Introduction
01:42 VR6 History
03:05 VR6 or V6?
04:35 The Chain Issue
07:46 The Investigation
11:37 The Influences
19:51 The Result
21:16 The Solution
23:03 Summary
Intro and outro music? Kurt - Cheel - Авто та транспорт
Andy, excellent video and fantastic summary of the challenges the VR6 owners face. Having owned my 3.2 since 2009 with only 8,000 miles I wish I had found the report and this information many years ago! I would have switched to annual servicing rather than the Audi recommended 2 years Longlife interval to keep my 3.2 engine in tip-top condition.
Massive thank you David for finding the report, suggesting and trusting me with converting it to a video! I hope I did it justice!
The vr6 is one of the best engines vw group has ever made and certainly the best sounding 6 cylinder I’ve ever heard in my opinion.
Totally agree and thank you for your comment buddy! 👍
Damn, the vr6 into the Audi TT Mk1 with DGS makes magic. 280 km/h is something not many Audi TT can reach like de mk1 vr6. A litterally jewel.
Excellent and comprehensive video, Andy. When I was selling my mk5 R32, the eventual buyer did try to knock some money off of my asking price by saying they could hear 'marbling' from the engine, indicating a "nackered timing chain". This is when the car was on around 52k miles. I did however call their bluff by showing them the group readings from VCDS which were exemplary! God, I wish I'd kept that car...
Thanks for your comment John and yes, the marbling can be a bit of a sign of the chain or tensioner wear. Readings at least show where the chain truly sits in the stretch scale. Its gutting when you sell a car and then instantly regret it. I have a similar story when chopping in my K reg RS1800i Fiesta for a knackered G reg RS Turbo Escort. All because I did not have the inclination to solve the failed steering rack. Should never have traded it in!
I'm in the US and bought a 2006 Audi A3 Quattro with the same engine; engine code BUB. Per the owner's manual, the car oil was to be changed every 10,000 miles (approx. 16,000 km). If I recall correctly, on my third or forth trip to dealer for service, there were little signs/notices on the tables in the waiting area say basically, "we realize and acknowledge your manual says change oil every 10,000 miles, and while this is okay for warranty claims (should the need arise), we now recommend changing your oil every 5,000 miles." Perhaps that was do address issues discussed in this video.
Perhaps I was lucky, but I was able to get 206,000 miles (approx. 332,000 km) out of my engine with no timing chain codes, noises, and of course, changes.
I must admit I did do a lot of highway/interstate driving, which certainly had and effect.
Loved my VR6. So of course I had to get another car with one, only this time it's the 2018 VW Passat GT (which has the 3.6 variant and other than the obvious difference in displacement, has quite a few other engineering changes to the engine); hopefully I can get the same mileage, but regular and timely oil changes will be even more important as this version had direct injection (so even more blow-by and fuel dilution).
Hello Andy, this is Michael from the A3 quattro forum in Germany. Congratulations on the great video. I hope it helps the cars with the great VR6 engine get the right care to run trouble free for a long time
Thank you Michael and thank you once again for the fantastic report!
Informative and to the point. Great job mate!
Thank you! Much appreciated! 🙏
Very good mate - excellent content
Thank you buddy! I appreciate it! Are you rolling down for breakfast next weekend at Route 1066?
Great video Andy and information!!! Invaluable for anyone away to buy a 3.2 TT 👌
Thanks Peter! Hopefully it makes more in the community aware and help adapt driving styles to protect those chains!
Perfect review, thanks! 👍
Thank you for your kind words Juris! It is a truly great engine!
Very, very useful video Andy, I will certainly upgrade the oil at next change, i always service the car every year, so pleased I was doing that bit right! Just got to try and stop the short journeys!!!!
Thanks Si! It sure opens your eyes when you find gems of information like that!
I have had my 05 3.2 TT DSG Quattro since 2007. So far, it’s been bulletproof. The DSG really helps protect the engine.
Andy, great video mate. Thank you for your time and effort + everyone involved.
Any chance you could do deep dive into APX and BAM as well please?
Many thanks
Thanks so much for your support! I think there is a lot more info out there for the BAM and APX and when we chat at meets, there are definitely more knowledgeable heads out there that can provide a better deep dive than me but happy to give it a go!
Great video Andy 👍🏿 Very informative. I'm seriously considering upgrading to a VR6 so I'm up to speed ... Cheers
Thank you very much for your kind words! The VR6 is an amazing car!
Nice one mate very informative and should help people get more life out of their chains ⛓ 👍
Thanks mate. I hope it helps fellow 3.2 owners. I think we take a look at my chains again next Saturday!
Top Top👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Owner of a Golf MK4 V6 2.8 HGP Biturbo with only 38.000km
And a A3 8p 3.2 with over 300.000km and the first Chain.
No Longlife since 200.000km.
Only Addinol 5W-40 since 2013
Good work Kurt! 👍
Why no longlife? I use motul specific 5w-30 and change it every 12.000km.
Very excellent insight as to how our 3.2 engine operates and what doesn't work for our engines to stay healthy. This is invaluable information for any VR6 Owner. Out of curiosity... did Audi ever acknowledge their miss-information regarding service intervals and the inherent weaknesses of their design ie: Sachs stamp on the timing chain, warming vehicle up to operating temperature for short trips ext...
Thank you for the deep dive into our engine and the steps that we can take to keep our engines healthy and our timing chains less prone to failure!
Hi Theodore. Thanks for your comments and feedback. I dont think they publicly acknowledged it or offered any advice on how to drive it. I believe there were revisions for the Mk2 after a year or so. The Iwis chain replaced the Sachs from the factory I believe also. Im glad the video helps!
@@andycharger By the time Chris and I were researching and writing the report, the Audi A3 3.2 quattro was no longer in production and no longer of interest to Audi. The engine was written off. Therefore, there was no reason for Audi to pursue the problem. Internal and Public. Only in the run-up to the report did we from the A3 quattro Forum bring the topic to German television. At 2008. There, Audi made the excuse that it had been published to the workshops, but that they had not taken note of it. The TV video is available here: ua-cam.com/video/8KvDz2TGJv0/v-deo.html
Brilliant video Andy. I’m not enjoying the short school run data - that’s 95% what my car gets used for 😂 oh well, that’s life. Thanks for putting it all together 👌🏻
Thanks Ben! It’s rather frightening when you look at the facts. I looked in the service book ( you can see it in the video) and there is the tick against long life service! Not any more! I might call it “fresh oil Friday” from now on!
@@andycharger mine is flushed yearly with who I get serviced with thankfully - but being that I do short journeys so often, I’ve been expecting mine to need doing at some point in the future anyway. At least that way I won’t be disappointed when it comes! Shame it’s such a painful job to do, but it being once a lifetime job really makes it more bearable
@@benofthenorthuk have you checked your chain readings? Might be worth doing for peace of mind.
@@andycharger I had the readings when I bought it, but that was a year ago - I do need to re-read them
Definitely do them at least yearly. Chris and I did them last december and it was 3 and 3. I just did it myself today (12 months on) ant they are 3 and 5. So not far away from the dreaded replacement!
Great video Andy. I thankfully always leave the car run for 10mins after starting before i set off on any journey. Really informative. And good to know that over kill i.e more often than not servicing is beneficial. Is there anything that alodes to fuel type? Mine is in 98k now. However been running on Shell vpower since ownership 7k ago and in the time ive owned it had two services
Yeah letting it warm up on tickover without putting it under load is probably best. Yearly oil changes seem to be the best thing to protect it.
Hi Andy, interesting information...hit the nail on the head on some points, there are many factors involved...no 1 oil and filter a must, I've done mine every 4k to preserve condition of internals.
One thing not mentioned, that I would be interested to hear your views on is 'Engine Flushing' , I have done occasionally...mechanics views on this differs somewhat.
The other factor I believe is how hard it's been driven !
Hi Richard. Thanks for the feedback sir! I dont think a flush can do it any harm. I is a bit like a super dose of additives in my opinion. Clears all of that sludge out that we know can contribute to blowby and clogging!
@@andycharger You think similarly to me...what on earth were Audi thinking back in 2004 with their Service Schedules on these ?
One garage told me once . " Don't use Engine Flush regularly because some of it hides in pools around the engine and it dilutes the effectiveness of the fresh oil !
Is that true...I don't know 🤔
@@richardturner587 if its hiding in pools, its not doing its job of flushing!
Basically buy good oil and change regulary. thank you
I`m gonna as soon as I get mine MOT again this year!
That is a very wise choice my friend! Regular oil changes are a must on these cars. Thanks for the comment!
As a VR6 owner, I change my oil every 4 months as I commit the sin of short trips. I've got 190k kms. Seems to be going okay still. I've used an additive since 150k km. Seems to have quietened the idle a little. Just a bit of info for other owners/drivers from my perspective.
Great feedback there and advice. That’s a good way to protect the engine!
@@andycharger Fantastic video BTW mate. In depth, accurate, attentive and factual. Very hard to find on UA-cam. Greetings from Auckland.
I'm at 180k now!
Which oil have you been using? The exact oil? Spec? Weight?
What was the additive you used?
Also, how long after using the additive did you renew the oil?
Cheers bud
Long live the MK1TT/VR6/R32 community
Mk2 vr6 tt is my favorite so far mk1 was good but the magnetic 🧲 ride and the spoiler that’s motorized is so cool 😎
Thanks for the comment Eddie. There are some cool variants of the car out there.
The mk2 spoiler is a lovely hark back to the corrado days.
Shame the mk2 doesn’t sound as good as the mk1 (even with a Tampa mod).
Great video andy is the mobil1 oil shown the oil you would use in your 3.2? My chain was done about 8 months ago so im gona take your advice and change the oil more frequently! Thanks
Hi Seanaj. Thanks for your comments. I think the mobil1 0W-40 is the minimum that should be used and a lot of comments seem to be to use the Mobil1 5W-40.
@@andychargerWould Motul 5W30 be any good?
Correction at 2:10. The Corrado had a 2.9 VR6, not a 2.8.
Source: The Corrado VR6 in my garage.
Very sorry. Thanks for the correction! 👍
@@andychargerActually you might be right depending on region. We got the 2.9 in the Corridor in Europe. The US got 2.8. I'm not sure what other regions got. These early engines were 12 valve. The MK3 Golf got the 2.8 12 valve in the Golf VR6. There was then a 2.8 Golf mk4 V6 4Motion which used the newer 24 valve version of the engine. I also had both of those. It's a wonderful engine.
I had an A3 Quattro with the VR6 engine in 2007 which was loosing coolant from new. At the first service the Dealership found there was an external split in the block alongside a head stud. Unable to get just a short engine, the Dealer fitted a brand new engine. Disappointing fault but good service.
Cant fault that service David! Good to hear they sorted it for you.
Hello Andy, excelent video. Is this also applicable to the MK2 Audi tt (2007 to 2012) 3.2 v6?
Hi Santi. Thanks for your kind words. I believe many of the early issues with the chain stamp were eliminated by the Mk2 but it does affect early ones. Also a lot of the principles behind the oil, using up the additives, absorbing the fuel, long life engine oil, etc will affect both mk1 and mk2 Audi TT 3.2 engines. I hope that helps!
Mk2 2006-2010 for 3.2.
And yes oil changes are just as vital. Chain still needs replacement.
Due to horrendous histories with belts, people know to change them at 60k. But somehow people think chains last forever. They don’t. So 100k very sensible - they do snap. Especially where not cared for as per this video, or under high strain (often a modified car due to its low second hand price and yet such good potential for tuning).
Very educational video!!!
Have any changes been made from the mk1 and mk2 3.2 VR6?
Hi Stephen. Thanks for your comments and support! I believe the chains were revised in the mk2 not long after it was released (a year or so in) and other improvements were made also. I will see what elese I can find out.
Greetings. Lovely review. I recently got a vw golf mk5 as project car . I'm looking to throw in an R32 engine, my question is Audi TT mk2 3.2 v6 the same engine as the R32? Thanks
Hi Rick and thanks for your comment sir! I believe the engines are essentially the same blocks but have different codings for their usage. BHE is the code for the TT Mk1 V6 3.2 Engine. BUB on the TT Mk2 V6 3.2 Engine. Codes for the R32 are BJS/BML. Essentially the same engine though.
@@andycharger Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate it 🙏
Great vid what oil do you use for your 225 and which would be suitable for my 190 .👍
Hi Russell. I believe the preferred grade is a fully synthetic 5W-30 such as the Castrol Edge. I hope that helps!
@@andycharger cheer’s for that Andy
If you could help with what should i have in mind when shortening the wheelbase of an audi tt vr6, Im buying a complete 2008 audi tt 3.2 vr6 quattro, and doing a chassis swap with a 1988 vw gol with an Audi quattro/lancia delta style widebody and front end. Right now it has a 1.8 turbo carburated vw AP engine and a chevy chevette transmission to go rwd, but as any project it is never enough lol
Hi Jorge! Wow that sounds an awesome project so please send me pictures! I am afraid I would not have the skills to advise on that other than the loading on the corners will be a lot more on a shortened wheelbase so stronger springs will be needed. Good luck! 👍
@@andycharger Hi Andy, thanks I will consider that, sent you some pics on instagram
It was in the ford galaxy as well
Thanks for the info! Does the EA888 engine suffer from the same issues, I drive a '14 2.0 TT S-Line BE?
Hi Souljah. That I do not know. This is a 3.2 VR6 engine and inrelated to the 2.0 Petrol units I believe.
@@andycharger Thanks for getting back to me Andy, no probs.👍
I have a mk4 r32 with this motor, they are bulletproof as long as you do preventative maintenance. It's at 198k, tuned cammed etc.and I expect her to reach 300k . I wonder if the BJS was affected. I changed my chains at 160k
Lets hope they stay bulletproof! Thanks for your comment buddy. I am not sure if the BJS was affected as only those mentioned in the report seems to be a problem.
Only one change in entire life? Mine was changed at 90-110k.. she's at 180k right now.
Hi any experience with Liqui Moly? I’m just collecting parts now to fully rebuild mine before I put it in my project so want to use the best oil from the start
I’ve got lots of liqui moly 5w 40 if it’s good to use I’ll use that, bought it in bulk for previous jaguar xfr
Hi Gary. As long as its VW spec (504/507) and you are changing it often, I cant see why it would hurt. No personal experience with Liquimoly myself I am afraid. Let me know how you get on.
Budget for a chain replacement every one-hundred thousand miles. That's how long the chain lasts. Given that, a chain replacement isn't all that expensive. I've done it twice.
Good effort on changing the chains. That is well above my pay grade! How did you find it?
@@andycharger I'm sorry, I should have said I paid a competent shop to swap them out. It's an '04 I bought in '07, and drive it today. Do the maintenance, and it's a very reliable car.
Great video! The link is broken.
Which link buddy? I just tried the links (and the links to the documents on the web page it takes you to) and they all work. Perhaps they were not working yesterday temporarily
@@andycharger now they’re working. For some reason they weren’t working yesterday. Keep up the good work.
Im planning on buying a mk2 3.2 and most of my trips are short journeys (3-6 miles), also I live in the south of Spain, Where most of the time weather is warm or very hot. I do around 5000 miles annually, should I discard it or is it okay? (I basically use my car for leisure)
Hi Manuel. The short journeys will not be good for the engine. They need to be warmed up to get the oil to temperature and burn off the pollutants. Otherwise the engine will suffer from corrosion and damage. Repeated Short journeys are never good fit this engine. Entirely up to you my friend!
Maybe 3 more manufacturers - Ford also used the VR6 in the Galaxy, and Winnebago used it in their motorhomes! (Maybe Bentley use 2 in the W12)
Yes I believe that Ford used the predecessor to this engine, the 2.8L vr6 in the galaxy.
Andy I would like to find out which one is more powerful between BHE & BUB?
Interesting question and sorry I have taken so long to reply! I think they both output 247 BHP so possibly both the same?
just wondering if the mk1's 3.2 differs from the mk2's 3.2 engine
Thanks for your comment. Essentially the same engine but with newer revision of some components, including the chain. It still good practice to follow many of the tips in this video though to prolong the life of the engine. I hope that helps and appreciate you asking the question.
During oil change on my A3 3.2 I started wondering how oil filter is sealed and how the streams flow trough the filter. Maybe there are some engineers to explain?
Hi Sarunas. I’m no engineer but if you have the filter to hand you will see it’s about the size of a soft drinks can. From what I can see the oil pump draws on the plastic “straw” like bit in the middle which draws the oil through the filter from the pan.
@@andycharger Thing that confuses me that straw is not a straw, not a tube.
@@sarunaspurvinis463 you are right. It just for plugging it in! I will investigate! 👍
@@andycharger And its not even sealing because diameter of that plastic ending is way too small to fit tight in to housing center nozzle.
All things be equal, which is the better engine to go with, the 2.0 or the 3.2? They both have their problems, but which is the better option for reliability?
I guess it all depends what you are looking for. The 2.0 tfsi engine in the mk2 seems a robust reliable engine and the 3.2 is a solid pure power beast. The tfsi has more tuning potential but nothing beats the sound of the VR6!
@@andycharger Does the VR6 engine have to come out to replace the chain? Is the OBD2 check reliable for checking the status of the chain?
@@andycharger How would you rate the automatic to the manual for reliability?
What is the background music please?
Hi there. Its Kurt by Cheel. Its a great track and popular on a lot of UA-cam videos.
Does anybody know what year audi updated the chain design?
I believe it was resolved early in the mk2 lifecycle. However even the replaced chains suffer stretch
@@andycharger ahh okay thanks for the fast reply, I'm looking to buy a mk2 on the weekend, do you know what obd11 your friend has, the cheap one or the more expensive one by any chance, I don't know if they have the same features or not ?
@@W0ULDY0ULIKE he has OBDEleven but if you watch my OBDII video on the channel it covers a cheap reader from Amazon for £12.99 that reads the chains 👍
@@andycharger I know its the obdeleven but there are different ones, I didn't know whether it was only the more expensive one that done the chains, do you think they all do it?
@@W0ULDY0ULIKE no the type of reader is called OBDII which looks like Eleven. The brand Chris used is actually called OBDEleven! obdeleven.com/
I have to add in that your statement about the chain stretch is not right but yet not quite off. Yes indeed if your banks exceeded 8KW they must be checked, but the engine may be not timed correctly or due to mechanical malfunction it could even jump a tooth that will immediately reflect the angle, yet no chain stretch. Also you may have stretched chain within the threshold of 8 degreese. There is no set in stone way to 100% check it, but we know that once the chain is way off the cars will always show 2 errors. 1 most often an error related to the HPFP sensor and 2 error for the low pressure of the HPFP. If you get them you can be almost 99% sure that you have a chain issue.
And lastly it is not always the case with these engines when you hear the chain rattling when you already have the chain stretched.
So you should always look for some VAG expert that knows what he is doing vs some random mechanic out there.
Thanks for your additional info and feedback. It is appreciated
It wasn’t a cheap car at new and as any car like that you can’t expect to pay nothing - most people do though.
I have always used high grade fully synthetic and changed at 10k or 1 year. The car will only get a minimum of 20 minutes drive to work, I take a longer route.
And I fully expect to replace chain at 100k. And whilst at it, the car will get new fly wheel and clutch being all off at the same time. It’s part of the life cost. Same care taken with the haldex.
Loved the Mk1 and hence nabbed the last VR6 in a mk2 which doesn’t sound as good. It’s a keeper.
Please recommend where I can get timing chain replacement for £1500, I have been quoted £3500.
Hi Jon. £3500 is the highest I have heard for a timing chain. Are they doing something else as well?
@@andycharger that's at indie-tech Milton Keynes with clutch. TTshop just north of Luton wanted £4500 .
And in my A3 8P. With a tune its pretty quick.
Did you tune your 3.2? What does it push now?
@@andycharger Did a Unitronic Stage 1+ and a few other minor tweaks so its about 270hp now.
@@davem6442 good work Dave! I’ve seen some running paint can sized air intakes on the 3.2 which make little difference. Interesting that a tune gets up to about 10% increase! 👍
Very Funny Great video Own a 2008 vr6 Needs A transmission only 125500 ml. Mint condition Wanna fix it?
Hi Boogie. Sounds like a mk2 on 2008. What’s up with the trans?
@@andycharger I get code P0890 Drives fine when cold then goes to limp mode stuck in 2 gear . Maybe mechatronics??
@@boogie16345 definitely something to get into an Audi specialist my friend!
@@andycharger I thought that would be you.Im in Vegas if you want to adopt the project for your videos?
Same as all engines, the manufacturer service intervals are a joke.
Why not just get an mk2 they look so much better
An opinion you are entitled to but as you can see from my channel, I cover mk1 Audi TTs.
10k oil changes... that's funny... do it every 3k.
Outdated and wrong. Waste of money and resources.
Buenas noches, vi su video y me pareció muy interesante y educativo, lamentablemente entendí las cosas a medias porque no hablo inglés, interpreté algunas frases de los subtítulos. La importancia del cuidado del motor, empleando el aceite adecuado, el calentamiento del mismo, previo a realizar recorridos cortos, los factores que influyen en el daño principalmente a la cadena de distribución. La necesidad de no atenerse al mantenimiento indicado por el manual, hacerlo cada año, etc. lo que no me quedó muy claro fue lo del TBN, un factor a considerar en los aditivos del aceite, etc. Felicidades por su canal, pero sería recomendable que intentara incluir subtítulos en español, sobre todo ante el uso de tecnicismos con los que uno no está familiarizado. Pienso que ha de haber muchos hispanoparlantes interesados en el tema. Gracias. Saludos desde México.
Gracias. He agregado subtítulos en español.
Excelente, agradezco su amabilidad. Felicidades por su canal, voy a revisar sus videos con los subtítulos. Saludos.