Autopsy of a washer drain pump, why it failed and how it works...
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- Опубліковано 30 лип 2017
- In this video we'll discover how and why the drain pump failed in the Kenmore washing machine, this forensic work help in having better practices in order to keep the washer working for longer without failure due to abusive usage.
Those pumps are used by many manufacturers in some of their models, the standardisation of the parts helps them to keep costs down and reduce the inventory of spare parts, as a consumer it will also be beneficial in the fact that it makes it easier to find a replacement part from multiple sources.
Partial list of the manufacturers that use this pump in some of their models:
Amana
Whirllpool,
Kenmore,
Maytag,
Admiral...
Finally the repair ended up costing me around $60 CDN, including shipping and custom fees... Better than at least $400 to 600... ;)
Thank you for watching
Hope you enjoyed and please like, comment and subscribe.
Pierre Beaudry
Email:
wledpierre@gmail.com - Навчання та стиль
I removed every piece of drain and made sure there was nothing blocking, but I did not open up the pump impeller casing. The drain error code f21 was intermittent. Thank-you for this video as I was finally able to confirm the problem. I had hoped to buy just the pump but had to purchase the whole pump/drain together.
Thaks for your comment I'm glad the video helped you diagnose and fix your problem..... 😉👍👍
Thanks for the autopsy Pierre, learned something today.
Glad to hear you got something of the video, it takes so much time and effort to put those up and it's great to hear someone say it's appreciated... Thanks, Pierre
thanks for your video, i had taken apart my pump as it was making a hideous noise when operating dry and it was full of water and foul smelling gunk. it also appeared to start collecting metal fillings. i have a new pump on order and im confident this will give our washer an extended life (its an lg direct drive) thanks again!
I don't still own this washer, but, I know that the latest owner still uses it and still happy about the performance... 🙂👍
Love your approach. Found it Interesting. Off to clean my filter now, not done one on a whirlpool my old machines were hotpoint.
Everything is possible, you may find nothing to the most unexpected treasures..... 😉👍
Great break down of the motor! Im my 10 year old whirlpool the impeller shaft came loose from the tubular magnet..probably from water getting past the seal.. thanks!
In most cases the best thing to do is to find a reasonnably priced good quality replacement pump and start fresh, the washer from the video isn't here any more but I've heard recently that it's still working perfectly well since the repair.
Excellent description. I had pulled my motor and it sloshed (uh-oh!). While I poured water out after taking it apart it looked sealed by design from the electrical side and perhaps the pump used water for cooling, I doubted that but it could be. Only minimal scoring on the shaft ends. Finding your example that it should be sealed confirmed the problem on my appliance. Thanks.
Thanks for your nice comment, I'm glad the video helped your solve your problem....🙂🙂
I like your vid, thanks for posting!
Thanks for your comment, glad you liked the viedo...
Cheers,
Pierre
Excellant video,! thank you
Glad it helped!
Thanks for your comment... 😉👍
I just found a small gold chain bracelet, around the shaft of the impellor !! And I told my wife to checkt the filter , and she does it regularly !
Those straines can be a gold mine as long as you don't empty your pockets before doing the laundry.... 😁😁🌈👍
Pierre, I have to thank you for the 2 vids you recently made. I took apart my Whirlpool Duet washer and sure enough I found some change, The wife took that, a carpenters pencile, an alen key and a silver ring. The machine was refurbishd when we bought it so the ring came with it. LOL Thanks again and cant wait for the next video. Maybe we will find more money HE HE HE .
Now I have to review or repair some machines that can swallow cash or jewelry, you're setting the bar pretty high for me... lol
Thanks for comment, Pierre
I replaced two pumps already in the past few years and was getting the error code for waterpump failure again. Came across your video and haven't felt so dumb in a while. I do not remember ever cleaning this filter, while still being able to replace the pump twice.
My filter was clogged and full of lint, the E-18 code fixed by just cleaning the filter hehe. I Wonder if i replaced a good pump the last time now ;)
Thanks for taking the time to explain this in detail.
At least the problem is fixed for good, a better understanding of situations really helps solving issues...
Thanks for taking a moment to leave a great comment,
Cheers, Pierre
good job!
Glad you enjoyed and thanks for your comment...
Well, a fine mesh on the basket should be the cure to prevent any debris entering the pump. But that will requiere cleaning more often. I do think a clogged discharge line may make the impeller cavitate and eventually deform the shaft.
feww finally one that can not be my fault..
Cheers my friend
Take advantage of the fact that you're getting it easy this week, the old routine is coming back soon... lol
Cheers, Pierre
just cant leave well enough alone lol .now he is going to really mess with you in the subtitles lol
Excellent explanation. Mine was making horrendous noise the first time we'd used the washer after it had been delivered. Makes me wonder if it wasn't a returned washer that was resold to as new.
Guess that with certain vendors, everything is possible. Another possible option is a badly mounted/defective part or the shipping restrains that were still in place.
Thanks for your comment.... 😉👍
Pierre the csi master lol
The investigation helps determine why it died and in this case have better habits that will make the washing machine last longer or at least the time it's supposed to last... ;)
Cheers, Pierre
You really got to talk to your wife about those inserts Pierre ;-)
One time I found a pocket knife in a machine, and my own pump had all sorts of electronic components...
Can't blame the wife here, I'm the one taking care of my own washing, one pile all colors all type of clothes, no woman would ever think doing it that way... lol
I taken my water pump out, opened it up and it was full jam packed with black solid amount of wet metal dust ,
some how all my metal dust off my overalls over time the magnet had drawn them in and stayed there due to the metal dust being kept there due to magnetism
Wow...! At least you got the problem fixed , amazing what can accumulate in this pump and cause problems...
thanks for your comment... 😉😉
Salut, j'ai un epic Z de 2009, je cherche à remplacer les shock du barillet. j'ai vu que ça peut monter à plus que 100$ pour le kit de 4, sais-tu si les kit à 30$ sur amazon fond la job? le modèle c'est :MHWZ600TE en changeant le door seal j'ai spotté une fissure sur une patte/base de shock. elle on l'aire vissé, mais je suis pas sur, je vois sur le web qu'elle sont clampé. es-tu en mesure de m'aider à trouver la bonne piece avec ma laveuse?
Hi Pierre mine just goes back and forward very little it does not wobble for the propeller but it will not empty sometimes. So I guess I got it before it goes bad
A washing machine very full of rincing water isn' t a good news. Prevention is a better way to enjoy better moments in life....
Thank you for this autopsy! Yah, washers are not piggy banks! LOL!
You got that right!
Wasn't even enough to pay for the dammage it caused... Sigh....!!!
Now for part 3, watch Pierre machine a new shaft and impeller ;-)
I'll have to choose my battles, at this price this one I won't fight, it would need also more hard to find like a seal and the end bushing, making a short story.... Spending 2 to 3 days machining new parts for $30... ;)
possibly thread got wrapped around the shaft, getting it to overheat near the seal, what was the fault showing? leak or not pumping, stuck motor?
It would be surprising theat the shaft overheated, first no coloration and water got thereand kept everything cool... Looks more like wear in a long term style.
Now I need to get under my washer and extract the drain pump.
Good luck, though, the job isn't as bad as it looks....
The wear on the shaft was most likely caused by electrolysis set up by the coins found in the strainer.
In my opinion it would be only by friction since the impeller was really out of axis and heavily rubbing on the surounding components, and, electrolysis would be impossible since the coins and inserts weren't touching the shaft at any moment.
I have a 40yo Maytag washing machine still on original pump, original everything for that matter. All my change and bits end up in the tub, I don't see how anything smaller than the 1/4" holes in the tub could get into the water system on it. Pretty obvious why they don't make them like that any more they wouldn't sell enough! lol
The older machines and appliances are the better ones... !!!!
Wonder how I was pushed into getting something new, good thing that I can stil fix them, at least for a few more years, I hope... ;)
I don't understand that either. How does it make it through the drainage holes in the tub?
That breakdown showed well - makes me realize how cost cutting leads to poor manufacturing practices and so reduced life. Could be more robust ideally.
Of course everything wears out but .... speeded up perhaps by Pierre detritis LOL. Pocket emptying needs addressed!
Have to imagine the huge profits on those pumps at the high prices!!
I always thought that forgetting a tissue paper was the worse thing that could happen to me when using the washing machine.... Now, my top item on the list is pieces of scrap metal or even carbide pieces... ;)
This kinda profit is what they call capitalism, sometimes I think they really over do it.... Sigh...!!!
Cheers, Pierre
Excellent video. When I recently removed the drain pump in my Whirlpool Duet Sport washer, I found water on the other side of the impeller. I cannot see any other physical damage so I am concluding that one of the rubber seals is starting to leak. The pump seems to work sometimes but the performance is spotty. I guess I will just have to replace the pump. Let me know if you have an alternate suggestion. Thanks.
If you look well on eBay there are some brand new pumps that will perform quite well, better than trying to fix anything and sooner than later having to dismantle the machine. I gave my machine to my son and it's still going without issues with a $30 brand new pump from eBay...
@@pierresgarage2687 Thanks. That's what I did as well. The machine is back to its normal self.
@@AjayGupta-Private All for the best... .👍
Can I take off that fan thing on the axis and still get that axis rotating?
There isn't much you can do about a pump in that bad of a state, it would only wobble itself even more into self destruction....
My advice is to get a new unit.... 🙂🙂👍👍
I'm on my 4th drain pump in less than a year . I think maybe the cheap ones fail quicker because the 2nd and 3rd ones were 20 dollar pumps
I'm surprised to hear about your problems, mine laster for quite a few years before I passed the washer to my son who finally sold it lately... How many loads would you do a week...?
Does front load water pump sucks water out of the drum & then pump it out? Or water gets to pump from bottom of the drum by gravity & them motor only pump it out? Can you explain?
Front loaders just like top loaders have a rotating drum and a tub around it, it's the same in both machines, the water goes out the bottom of the tub into the pump's inlet and gets pumped into the drain hose to the be evacuated from the washing machine to the household sewage system. 🙂
If a drain pump is broken and is replaced, what do you recommend doing with the old one? Just tossing in the garbage?
Since thereis some steel and copper, I imagine that some scrapper would rake it, here, on garbage day we leave the metals visible aside the regular trash. Or you may know a neighbor that collects those like i have one near here.....
Kenmore elite he washer pump very noisy, would not work under load. ohm resistance was good 15.4 . got a new one on Ebay $32 dollars. working great and quiet
Thanks for your comment, nice to hear that it helped you fix your appliance....
Cheers,
Pierre
2:10 what is that silver component connected to coil called?
Sorry if the comment is late, it just got lost in the stream of comments, just if you still wonder it's most likely a thermal switch that will trip if the motor overheats.
Excellent video. Have the identical pump. You mentioned that you had taken it apart before and noticed you pushed and quick turned the pump to disconnect it from the drain tray. Tried that but could not get the plastic ring lock turned enough to separate the motor from the drain tray in order to check the impeller. Do I need a special tool or teqnique?
It's been a long time since this video was made, but, if my memory is about right, I held the motor in a vise (Gentle enough, though...) and just using slip joint pliers unscrewed the plastic front part off... At least this is what I remember... 😉
I just replaced mine and disassembled the old one to inspect - if you look carefully at the plastic tabs around the circumference of the pump, there's a small raised portion on one of the tabs on the drain tray that keeps the motor housing from rotating. You just need to press that bump/divot gently with a small screwdriver, and then you can rotate the pump off easily.
Also by the way, when I disassembled the old one, the cavity surrounding the rotor was absolutely filled with a grey, gritty sludge. I'm not sure how much of that grit was from dirty clothes and how much was metal that was worn off the rotor. In any case, I'm sure it was impeding the operation of the pump.
@@stephenban that is how it fails. I purchased a new one, but cleaned, greased the seals and put the old one together and it works well enough to run a few loads until the new pump arrives. FYI, the original pump has that twist off motor. You can purchase just the motor with impeller for that model. I threw mine away not knowing this. So now I have to replace the whole pump each time. On my 5th or 6th pump. Original lasted probably 8 years. Replacements are good for 6 months to 2 years.
I bought a replacement pump. Would like to have been able to buy just the sealed plastic assembly with the impeller (of course) and transfer the electric parts from old pump. I could not find that as an option.
They are available on Amazon. If you have kept your old (original) pump you can replace just the motor/impeller for $20-25. Replacement models are different and I have not found a replacement motor yet. Seals fail in 1-2 years on the replacement pumps.
when mine is not draining, it makes a soft sound, need to open (so all water starts running out) & then spin the plastic crosshair a little with the finger & then it magically starts to work properly & needs to closes it asap to avoid all water to run out . if luckly it works 1-2x full cycles but then again some intervention needed (bosh vario perfect maxx7)
Can't give a definitive diagnostic, but, if your washing machine has quite many washes done in it's life, my feel is that there is quite some wear on that little crosshair (impeller) thing you mention. What happens is that with the wear the impeller won't be centered on the shaft and either rub on the housing or there is foreing stuff that causes friction and since that impeller doesn't hane enough torque to get going. The other possible reason is the shaft itself is worn out behond tolerances and then the pump needs replacement, this shaft isn't replacable in most pumps of that type.
Hope it helps, just let me know what solved your problem for good...
@@pierresgarage2687 guess the machine is about 6 years, there is a little play left-right with the impeller but nothing inside the plastic housing when opening to need spin it. machine was not super expensice so sooner or later, when being done with the house flooding, we'll retire it, thx for u'r fast diagnostic :)
the winding copper turns can be rewinded again with fresh copper wire again?
The pump winding was burned
It would be quite impractical to rewind one of those, you would need to get the polar pieces apart, there are a lot of turns at 120 volts and quite more for 240 volts with even thinner wire. I paid about a total of $60 US including shipping for a band new replacement.
Consider the price of new copper wire, plus shipping, the amount of work involved in rewinding and considering that the pump has some wear and may require new parts (seals, impeller, etc...) you may consider a new unit...
Thanks might
My pump about a year ago broke and I found a shiny penny where the copper coating and been rubbed off through constant abrasion to the pumps rotor. I paid $26 for a replacement pump and it made it about well actually it was way before Covid so it made it two years. It had conductivity but I dunno what else it could be since the error code is the pump. I’ll try and buy another one. Having twins our washing machine usage quadrupled. I paid $350 4 years ago puls $26 (and I had to rent a uhaul). I feel like I’ve gotten my money’s worth but I don’t want to buy a new one.
The main issue with those drain pumps, objects making it pass the screen and damaging the impeller, this is why I've gotten into the habit of emptying my pockets before EVERY load... 😉
The other items that may fail are the main bearing on the drum, the water seals and finally the electronic control board... If you get the parts from the official service center you get to pay very high price, sometimes more than the value of the appliance, this is what I call abusive practice that encourages trashing tools or appliances that would be perfectly functionnal for a long time with a low price repair......
This is where consumers need to be creative in finding replacement parts and fixing.
We also have to let those big companies know that we don't accept playing their game..... 😎😁🌈
totally agree. what brand would you suggest buying? kenmore, kitchenaid, whirlpool, LG, ???
Hi
My machine from the door little pich of plastic rubber rip off
How can we fix and how much should cost to repair ?
I wouldn't know, this type of repair is not what I usually do, this video is just to share some unique experience that other washing machines owners could experience, sorry I couldn't help more...
I took $3.41 in quarters, dimes, nickels, and pennies along with a key, lint, and a hair band out of a front load washer two weeks ago. I have gotten a baby's sock out of a pump once that had bound up the pump.
Guess so far I'm the only known one with carbide machining inserts... lol
My lg topload washingmachine don' t pomp the water , only zooming noise.
Possible internal failure of the pump, also possible, a blockage from a piece of clothing, to be investigated...
We had a stray pen in the wash, and i found the inner ink cylinder in the filter. The pump hums and doesn't drain. I wonder if ingesting a hard object like that ruined the impeller on mine. Ill do my own autopsy soon.
Hard objects hitting the impeller may distort it, in this case you need to get a new pump, if you're lucky it only blocked the impelled without damaging it.
If you need to get a new pump, i suggest looking on eBay, it shouldn't be much more than 30 to 40$ brand new.
It was a bobby pin! A single friggin bobby pin jammed the impeller and brought down the machine.
On the bright side, at least it's fixed... !!! 😉👍
Is the cheap one still working? I am about to do this replacement.
Since I've given the washer to my son and it's is still performing as it should, they even use it more than we did, in fact it'S the same part or just about, the problem with buying from the big name distributors or manufacturers is the enormous marckups they charge.
Just try to imagine selling a whole washer for $500 to $800 and paying $100 just for that pump, as a insight into manufacturing and retail, if it costs $10 for an item it will resell for 3 to 10 times or more the actual manufacturing cost.... Don't be shocked, but, the worse of this is inkjet refills, what you pay let's say $75 for a refill cost them less than $2 even less than a $1 in most cases..............
We have changed ours twice. It would work fine one time then nothing.. what could be causing this? Please help!
Hard to say without seeing, is there anything like debris in the streamer or lack of water when operating as water is acting as a lubricant on the main shaft...?
Is there sign of wear, deformation, anything out of the normal operation norma...?
Make certain it's only pumping at the required moment, like mentionned before it's difficult to diagnose without any details.
@@pierresgarage2687 thank you for replying! We have it fixed! After some investigation we found that it has a circulation and a drain pump. Thankfully they are the same pump .
You can repair it fix new implera with aluminum you can manufacturing the part by lathing machine shop i do that in saudi arabia because 110 v spare part stop since 2015 so i try repair every part of old GE washer even the seal you can make them easily so dont throw eny thing
The repair would require a great amount of time, since the whole assembly was $30, it was more reasonnable to replace the unit, I've ordered from eBay cause local suppliers were asking around $200 for the same thing...!!! Internet is a good place to look for parts when something is not available locally or when prices are way too high.
Thanks for sharing your experience... 🙂👍
Pierre, maybe you didn't know, but you can recycle the contents of your chip pan without washing them first! ;-)
Things I do...!!! I'm not so anxious to get a little more senile... Sigh... lol
I would be very appreciative if you could explain just how the motor starts. The motor from the information you have given and the pictures is a synchronous motor and this type of motor do not self start. But obviously this motor does not merely start but actually runs at high speed. I have not been able to find any information as to just how this type of motor starts. Thank you if you should be able to offer the explanation sought.
Those little motors are using a out of phase starting winding on the laminated plates of the outside armature, not sure about the actual phase angle, though. This is a little like the extra winding connected to a capacitor on some bigger types of motors. The side on witch the starter winding placed regarding the main winding will determone the direction of the rotation of the motor.
I've seen some videos a long time ago on the Tube, sorry I can't remember where...
Hope you can see how it goes...
@@pierresgarage2687 Thank you for your comment which is not relevant to my question, There is no starting winding on this motor and to complicate matters further, it is a single phase motor , yet it starts and performs extremely well. If you should know just why and how this motor works I would appreciate your effort.
How did that big stuff greet through the holes in the tub/drum of the washer? That makes no sense. Either yuppie washer has really big drainage holes in the tub, or there's another spot for the ingress of junk.
I was surprised to read from other peoples comment of what ends in the streamer, but so far I'm the only one with carbide machining inserts.... Not sure I got to be that proud but at least to my knowledge, it's a first.... lol
Thanks for comment, Pierre
That's a tiny impeller. I didn't know you were a washer repair man, I should have had you come down and fix my washing machine! LOL Turns out my shaft on the main drive motor rusted in two. Not worth repairing.
I'm only washer repair man if I'll save a bundle on my own apparels and if my stiff articulations allow me to reach the problem.......... lol
That little shaft was getting close to split point... And, at a reasonable price it's not worth repairing... ;)
The propeller is rotated by magnetic force.. outside the cylinder. Water is used to cool it, so, it should not be sealed. If it is sealed, then friction to plastic "bearing" will destroy it and the prop will wobble.
You may be right about this, can't argue cause I don't have a pump at hand to verify what should really be the situation inside the rotor's chamber...
@@pierresgarage2687 There is a ton of videos on UA-cam about these pumps. Here is one. You can skip close to the end to see the pump dismantled.. there are no seal either in the middle or outside the border, just a gap.
ua-cam.com/video/vO0i3gbZ3es/v-deo.html
@@pierresgarage2687 here is another one, perhaps better: ua-cam.com/video/jSEKMeAv4ps/v-deo.html
@@bjarnieinarsson3472
You were right, wouldn't drink that coolong water, though..... lol
If the wife has carbide inserts in her pocket then my only question is does she have a sister??? :D
Nope...!!! 😉
So wrong cutting speed killed it. Lol
You just nailled it, those fast spinning machines are too fast for those... lol
hahaha I can see you are a machinist judging by what's in your filter.
As a negligent machinist, it's as good as it's possible to achieve....😴😉👍
Cheers,
Pierre
The majority of washers nowadays don't even use strainers.
Guess it helps selling more new ones if not, their service personal is kept buzy raking in more money....!!!!!
@@pierresgarage2687 Sad but True , its better for big companies !
What kind of numbnuts doesn't check pockets before washing, oh it was you, well I guess you had your reasons. :>)
Me, I always check mine , coins don't need washing and you can't waste money like that either in the filter or on a new pump.
Don't worry I'm not telling all of my numbnut moments, that would deprive all other UA-camrs from an audience... lol
I guess that random checking of my pockets isn't enough... I'll need to get more serious about my own quality controll... ;)
Cheers, Pierre
Or, redefine your washing machine as a piggy bank?
lol...!
I can tell, that’s a mechanical draining pump, I see it has a horn on it
It failed because this is merely an imitation of a drain pump. The pump in the cheapest industrial washing machine, looks completely different. There is no possibility of anything damaging the impeller.
This pump is the original pump...
I have no sure explanation on how the debris got there.
One sure thing, the manufacturer will construct a brand new washer for about $100 and sel it to the consume for neaw $1000, They can't use a $150 pump and other costly items and expect to make a profit, it's the same on every single part that they use.
They just hope it makes it past the original warranty period and sell you the same cheap components at 10 to 50 times their cost.
It' the way it goes, unfortunately...!!!
Rather than replacing the pump a true machinist would have made new parts.. LOL
$30 isn't enough to have me work a couple of days to repair this kinda trouble... lol
Heh, a few chips in the clothes is not enough for you eh?
Got to start checking my pockets, not just for paper tissues... ;)
In other words it was a piece of shit the day it was made
Just like about everything or everyone on this planet, born to reach the junkyard or graveyard on in more or less time... ;)
A little scary just thinking about it...
Cheers, Pierre
That's like saying, "My In-Sink-Erator (kitchen sink disposal) is a piece of shit. I took it apart and found carbide inserts in it. I don't know why it stopped working. It wouldn't spin and the hammers ere all beat up."