A note about the SCVs: the AI doesn't pull SCVs to get rid of them, they just go to your mineral patches if they are mined out themselves. This is because they have full vision of the map. The upside is that you know that at least some of the AIs are out of income, the downside is that they usually have a big bank. But they will actually replace the harvesters they lose.
@@bcsa8079 There are several maps for 16 players. Non have been in the ladder rotation but a lot of 16 player free-for-alls have been part of community events throughout the history of the game.
I definitely think armor upgrades are worth it. Not necessarily because they will prevent your units from dying, but because they will end up more than paying for themselves by reducing how much repairing you have to do. If your units take less damage you spend less money on repairs.
if you're correct about how the AI determines whether to attack based on map-hack + army value, that might be an additional reason to keep your army supply as low as possible to incentivize attacks. Perhaps if you're at 200 supply the AIs will attack more intermittently with larger waves. I wonder if it's army value or just strict supply. Love your videos! This brings me back to my childhood playing 1v7c on BGH, rolling the dice hoping i get a "dumb zerg" that just builds two overlords and chills.
At first it is based on timings depending on their build orders, the build orders themselves depending on positioning of your units/buildings and what they scout. I am pretty sure they always know what you have resource wise but that doesn't give them full information so they make choices depending on what they see building. Outside of specific timings they will attack if threatened/trying to punish you or needing to defend their base or base trade even. Upon max supply they tend to be much more aggressive.
This is one of the most epic Starcraft videos I've ever watched. Incredible! It's like watching two heavyweight generals duking it out in an epic, all-out war.
The decision to keep your army slim is so smart. I could see this principle applied in late game pro play. Not an overall army count of course, but the army count required to defend some positions.
It actually is already applicable for overall army count in pro play. In grind it out macro games, where tempo doesn't win and it's going to come down to mining out, pro players tend to mass static D so that single quick game winning pushes are unlikely. And purposely not max out so they have flexibility to add the right units when situations change. And of course, refrain from committing fully to battles.
@@panner11 yeah the flexibility is a good point. Now that I think about it, something that pro protosses often do is to keep some army supply available for warp-in so they can reinforce some positions late game (against doom drop for example), or harass with the warp prism. But I never thought about this concept for terran.
Regarding the units lost: you had a ratio of 441,109 : 17.484 wich is about 25.23 : 1!!!! That is, to me, surprisingly better then the vs Z ratio at 16.85 : 1 (that is 150%), but when you think about it the AI mined more in total and with the AI behind your choke still alive they came in smaller waves wich makes you lose less. On average you had a 3.6 : 1 Ratio per AI and 5.36 : 1 against the AI that lost the most. I think it is also cool that you can clearly see at 44:06 wich AI had a base mor than the others in resources lost. It is great to see you still imporving and bringing great content to us! Keep it up!
Incredible stuff! A minor point - an unsieged tank actually outranges a PF (without the range upgrade) and does more single target damage than one in siege mode. So if you just want to gun down the PF its better to leave your tanks unsieged. Something else I thought of. I wonder if the other AIs would defend your neighbour if you reduced them to one building but refused to accept their surrender.
That's actually a really smart idea, if not accepting surrender still forced the enemy to try to help, you could get 4 bases of mining while also hopefully breaking up the enemy army.
STORYTIME! rts games were my first computer games i played when i was like 5 and 6. although i played mostly warcraft and command and conquer. i never played against players.i was "too young" to play online lol.its really cool to see these challenges, it was mainly all i did when i was young. of course not at this level but its really cool to see you figuring out ways to beat them. thanks for all the effort you put into making your videos. cheers
Congrats! Vs protoss u might wanna consider adding like 4 5 ghost to emp. Its gonna be hard to keep them alive but maybe saving them with medivacs is an option since ais aren't the smartest. (What I know from the campaign ai is that they like to target healers so maybe disabling the healing ability for the medivacs works?)
I think immortals might be the biggedt issue due to the sheer bulk, so some emps might work, but I feel like interference matrix on some high value stuff might help more.
This is sooooooo awesome! just started watching your challenges roughly 2mos and made me want to play starcraft again! Looking forward to the 7AI protoss match! Keep em coming!
Wow. This is really great. The commentary was as good as the game. So much explanation and detail. I loved it. Looking forward to the Protoss challenge and if it's impossible a video with one of your attempts. Would really like to see it. Keep up the great work. Thank you for the content.
Amazing video. It's so fun to watch this haha, can't wait for the Protoss version! I wonder though, if you got +3 Armor you would take less damage, and need to repair less, in addition to having tougher units.
Hi Marc, awesome video as always. One thing I guess would be very interesting is if you would make a video with your first attempts trying the challenge. Showing the mistakes, the things you discover while you are discovering them, similar to the GM challenges.
Congratulations!! and thanks for making such an effort to produce entertaining content, I thought it would be months before this came out!! P.S. PiG said you didn't complete the challenge because it wasn't random but maybe if 7 Protos proves too much of a headashe for now then it might actually be easier to do random so there are loss protos?
PiG also said he didn't complete the challenge because there was a time limit. The deadline was several months ago, during the subathon which introduced the challenge and the bounty for completion.
I am so looking forward to "against 7 insane protoss" if that is even possible! The only possible answer is luring them in, that might be attempting a wall off that you abandon, or something else! Give it a try and see if something works. Regardless of if you win or lose i would love to see a video!
That was beautiful! Really awesome to see someone do the ""ïmpossible". Thermy is that guy who did the 4 min mile and then people around the world started doing it.
For the protoss, did you try ghost emp in combination with the wall ? + Raven armor shred ? Otherwise you can try nukes ! Against 6 armies in a single choke point, they cannot fly away that fast, your nuke will necessarily land on some %age of their combined armies (which would be cost efficient). You just need to deal with their ways of detection. That would be very cool to watch ! If you circle them with nukes (ghosts in your walls + sneaky ghosts outside coming from behind your ennemies when they go torward the choke point) the IA will panick and not know where to go. Easy to say hard to do but well.. it could be cool to watch ! I tried this against 7 hard IA and those traps were very cool to setup ! I don't have the skill to try it against higher difficulty IA tho. (I know the ennemies have vision on your level of difficulty but you can still trap them !)
congratz, awesome to see how you figure it out and still hav the nerves to try protoss further =) , best of luck and i enjoy your channel a lot =) so thanks, for me you da kindest, sweetest SC 2 youtuber =) love it that u keep going here and raise you subs so fast , grateful greetings
Greetings @uThermal, I have completed all three challenges and let me just say, the key to success against protoss can be found in the phrase "nuclear launch detected". But seriously godspeed, this is such amazing content and I can't wait to see what kind of delicious exploit you are able to cook up to combat the dreaded 1k supply a move protoss army.
Cool! Great job! 👍 Strange to watch a video without Marc's face, hope we see you next time! And yes, interesting to see same challenge VS Protoss and VS Random! If VS Protoss it is not possible - should we complain on imbalance? )) But I very much believe you can do it!
@uThermal u mad man :D yesterday on your stream u toldme to check your yt today and here is the next crazy vs 7 insane game :D congratz ! Very nice play ! And for the 7 Protoss : - Consider Ghosts , it would be hard to keep them alife and it cant be to many, but like 4-6 ghosts that when big chunks of toss try to enter the choke can drop an EMP should massivly impact. - Raven may be another thing - same as with the ghost not to many just maybe 2-4 - if you can make good use of Interference Matrix on immortals (which should be the biggest problem in that describe crushing through you situations) - Since protoss will impact with chargelots, the liberator/tank might do alot of damage but i feel like some of the chargelots will make it through what finally will make your tanks shoot each other. So maybe a small amount of Hellbat in front could change that. They are repair-able, and if you can spend the little gas for blue flame they might do a good job I actually would be most worried about tempest + high templare in a big mix. Even if in theory you can rip the tempest using vicings, if the protoss randomly storms your vicing stack it might end it very fast. And tempest will otherway hardcounter your sieged position. Gl anyway and looking forward to the Video :)!
I feel like because the majority of protoss units have so much more health than their zerg or Terran counterparts, attack upgrades for seige tanks and libs would actually be much more important.
Wow! This challenge turns out to require some counter-intuitive brilliance -- the kind only UThermal can come up with: don't upgrade and don't max out. Win. Crazy.
Extraordinary skills! Amazing that you found a way to get them to feed themselves slowly through a choke point. I admit I still don't understand why the AI doesn't just send huge armies with diversified units.
I wonder if you can leave a very small pathway with the liberators at your entrance, so the enemy thinks they can go through but they'll die to the tanks instead.
Awesome win. Even if the Protoss turns out to be impossible, do you think you’ll post any of the attempts? I’m pretty sure if it’s as hard as you are saying, it’s going to take the AI derping a lot like when Heromarine played the 7 random AI and won. He was getting hundreds of kills when the Protoss was just running in circles at the bottom of ramps and stuff for no reason and the only Terran AI didn’t even make an appearance until the game was almost over so that was very helpful as well, not that it was Big Gabe’s fault lol. So I think for the Protoss challenge you’ll just need a little luck or to find some kind of bug but it would still be fun to see some of your closest attempts. Thank you for all the great content Sir!
Yes, I absolutely would like to see more content like this. I just wonder what might be next, now that all the races are done. 7 cheater AIs all set to rush? Seems impossible, but so did this one. ;)
Good job! By the way, I think a siege comp to GM would be fun! (Tanks and liberators only.) Don't know if it would be possible, but it would be interesting!
You might be able to do the protoss run if you micro'd ghost EMPs as well as you did the vikings here. no shields and energy in the middle of their a-move would blunt the worst. Absolutely fantastic work. your videos are excellent!
The only thing I could even fathom to improve this is a single dropship. There are times that you could have utilized it's ability to move SCV, Thors. That said, every 1% a dropship heals an SCV will be a step to compensate the 100 minerals it took to create the dropship. As well as the situations where you want to move a tank or destroy a turret. There is the fact that an SCV used to repair a dropship from inside. I don't know if that's the case anymore (could have been patched out) but still an interesting idea to consider.
I love these videos its very satisfying to watch entire armies get shredded. I wanna see you do it with zerg so that we get a proper lurker blender at the choke.
It may be an exploit but from what I've seen the Ai looks like it stops producing workers when you finish all the resources. Which in turn means they can create bigger armies. So maybe just keep 1 mineral patch on the map so they keep producing workers
I know this video is few days old now and it was excellent quality. You asked for any ideas that might help my only thought was using ravens with thier deploy turret to help bait the AI into your choke death zone so you dont loose any units next time.
That was awesome 😎, i know it's probably been said by others in the comments but i would not misuderestimates the power of the turrets upgrade AS WELL AS / AND STRUCTURE UPGRADE! You give you an incredible boost, if you would open early ebay.... with on all the work have done the turrets in this game it would give you such and edge also considerate that Ai's doesn't upgrade much😎😎🚀 GG! WAS an insane game!👻💪
Used to do this in StarCraft 1. But I used two cheat codes… operation claw and show me the money. I don’t remember the map name, but it was an 8 player map with one choke for each base. I basically did the same thing, just lined the tanks up and had Valkyries for aa, but I also used cheats lol. Idk, you should experiment into an island maps versus insane AI. I feel like island maps are an untapped way of playing. Because it requires you to play so much differently then the traditional ground connected playstyle that’s always shown and advertised for matches. I’d be very much interested in seeing an island map play through. I feel like they were so much more popular in StarCraft 1 and Warcraft 2,3.
I think versus protoss you probably have to have 4 or 5 ghosts to emp clumped armies trying to a-move through you to make it holdable, but I’ve never tried the challenge so who knows. Seems like removing thousands of hp in shields with some emp’s could be good though.
EMP shot is probably a necessity against protoss, it cripples archs/immos/HTs, but it's probably a nightmare to micro. Because of the sheer variety of army outputs they'll presumably send, it might not actually be possible without forcing builds or a very lucky match. Observers, carriers, voids, collossi - they have so many ways to retaliate against the high ground ghosts with EMP would love to abuse. They easily counter libs, often counter harass mineral lines with phoenix, destroy bio with aoe... Honestly, victory over the protoss probably depends very heavily on what they build as a determining factor in your own build, and is going to require heavy simultaneous micro on multiple different small unit groups. But, aside from ghosts, probably don't build bio and you'll probably need all the mech
The reason the A.I. keeps an army in their base is it is waiting for SOMETHING to change so they can be effective. As soon as the choke is gone and you move out it registers that your choke is empty and it tries assaulting again. Until then it'll keep more than enough to wipe you hidden where you have to move to get to it. It has Patience. And long-term planning.
Brilliant game! Question: Could it be interesting to scan the mineral lines of your opponent, and drop a bunch of mules in order to weaken their economy?
Beautifully executed. It's wild that they just completely ignore your bases because your army is on the low ground. The AI could definitely use more advanced harrasment behavior.
A Theory I have regarding the armor on building/units is something to consider as an economic choice. As the repair of a unit is 25% of the original cost, saving 2 damage per hit, over the course of the game would have a chance to save a significant amount of % health. That would translate to the cost of repairs over time. That means that at least the first and second armor increase, if early enough, could easily pay for itself over the course of the game. The question is if there's an opportunity to gain it early enough to not mess with the tempo of your strategy needs. While in 1v1, the ideal of 1 armor preventing death makes sense, I think researching the amount of damage a unit can take per % of repair cost could help justify at least 1 armor upgrade.
So I decided to run some numbers on this for the first armor upgrade: Vikings cost 150 minerals and 75 gas and have 135 hp, so after 720 repaired hits against vikings you will have saved 200 minerals and 100 gas, paying for the first armor upgrade Liberators cost 150 minerals and 150 gas and have 180 hp, so after 480 repaired hits against liberators you will have saved 100 minerals and 100 gas, paying for the first armor upgrade Siege tanks cost 150 minerals and 125 gas and have 175 hp, so after 560 repaired hits against tanks you will have saved 120 minerals and 100 gas, paying for the first armor upgrade Thors cost 300 minerals and 200 gas and have 400 hp, so after 800 repaired hits against thors you will have saved 150 minerals and 100 gas, paying for the first armor upgrade Note that this assumes the AI does the same thing against you in either scenario; if the AI responds to you making armor upgrades by making more weapon upgrades (I have no idea whether that's the case, but it is strange that in this game the AI chose to stop at 1/1), then it's a net loss because weapon upgrades add *at least* one damage per hit, often more.
@@tanonevacm Thank you for running the numbers. It was a theory and I appreciate you taking the time for the rudimentary testing. Good point about the potential AI adjustments. I feel more now that this is a good concept to test. As a note, the numbers for SCV and Turrets are relevant, even if they aren't gas. Only to put into perspective the potential econ, that's all. Another thing to consider is that this math covers the entire army as a whole. Such as 200 repaired hits on one unit + 100 repaired hits on another unit + 50 hit on a third unit, etc. I do believe that (assuming AI adjustments are not responsive to it) at least a 1/1 upgrade is a potential opportunity for an economic move moreso than simply unit survivability.
@uthermal, how do you think, would it be more interesting if there were endless resources on bases? So you cannot just wait until bots run out of resources, but have to attack them. On the other side - you can invest as much as you need.
Against the Protoss, I would think that you would need to have either/or ghosts and ravens. Ghosts would be able to use their emp to wipe out shields in AoE, while ravens would be able to use their missiles to lower the defense with AoE. That would make a march through the tanks and liberators much more suicidal for those units. Just a thought.
EMP seems the play against Protoss. 1) Regenerates costing nothing to use. 2) Drops the HP pool of all units effected. 3) Removed Immortal damage mitigation and destroys the Archons.
I think you can do a similar thing with Protoss but you'd probably have to micro a quite sizable Ghost army to always have energy for EMP to soften up their army so they can't just walk through Tank, Turret and Liberator. Protoss with shields up is the most busted thing in late game.
This basically is the most Wing of Liberty thing ever. A woefully outnumbered Terran fighting the entire empire basically. Jim Raynor is proud of you.
all in terran edition XD
*Nodding in Jim Raynor intensifies.*
This is the more accurate version of Media Blitz, the map even resembles it.
too bad jim doesnt use libs
"Hell. It's about time."
A note about the SCVs: the AI doesn't pull SCVs to get rid of them, they just go to your mineral patches if they are mined out themselves. This is because they have full vision of the map. The upside is that you know that at least some of the AIs are out of income, the downside is that they usually have a big bank. But they will actually replace the harvesters they lose.
they do, but only 1 base worth of SCVs
Aside from watching you dominate the AIs, I truly appreciate you sharing your thought process and approach to completing these challenges.
Now we need 2 Terran GMs vs 14 Terran Insane AI
uThermal's PC: Mr. uThermal, I don't feel so good.
Or 1 GM vs 7 serral
I think 2v14 is easier then 1v7😅 there is not 16 player map anyway
@@bcsa8079 There are several maps for 16 players. Non have been in the ladder rotation but a lot of 16 player free-for-alls have been part of community events throughout the history of the game.
@@JaharNarishma oh mb stop playing for a long time only watch vid
I definitely think armor upgrades are worth it. Not necessarily because they will prevent your units from dying, but because they will end up more than paying for themselves by reducing how much repairing you have to do. If your units take less damage you spend less money on repairs.
Great Point!
I calculated you were about 22 times more efficient in resources lost than your opponents combined.
Per the 44:06 stats, that is 441,109 enemy resources destroyed, divided by 17,484 own resources lost, for an efficiency of 25.23x.
1:21.23 units produced to units killed
29.29:1 kill to death
Every time someon says "This is impossible", uthermal rises to the challenge.
thank you so much thermy for all of the quality content you consistently deliver
if you're correct about how the AI determines whether to attack based on map-hack + army value, that might be an additional reason to keep your army supply as low as possible to incentivize attacks. Perhaps if you're at 200 supply the AIs will attack more intermittently with larger waves. I wonder if it's army value or just strict supply.
Love your videos! This brings me back to my childhood playing 1v7c on BGH, rolling the dice hoping i get a "dumb zerg" that just builds two overlords and chills.
Lol at the last line
i remember doing that too lmao
At first it is based on timings depending on their build orders, the build orders themselves depending on positioning of your units/buildings and what they scout. I am pretty sure they always know what you have resource wise but that doesn't give them full information so they make choices depending on what they see building. Outside of specific timings they will attack if threatened/trying to punish you or needing to defend their base or base trade even. Upon max supply they tend to be much more aggressive.
This is one of the most epic Starcraft videos I've ever watched. Incredible! It's like watching two heavyweight generals duking it out in an epic, all-out war.
thank you for being an absolute madlad for us. good content as always.
The decision to keep your army slim is so smart. I could see this principle applied in late game pro play. Not an overall army count of course, but the army count required to defend some positions.
It actually is already applicable for overall army count in pro play. In grind it out macro games, where tempo doesn't win and it's going to come down to mining out, pro players tend to mass static D so that single quick game winning pushes are unlikely. And purposely not max out so they have flexibility to add the right units when situations change. And of course, refrain from committing fully to battles.
@@panner11 yeah the flexibility is a good point. Now that I think about it, something that pro protosses often do is to keep some army supply available for warp-in so they can reinforce some positions late game (against doom drop for example), or harass with the warp prism. But I never thought about this concept for terran.
Regarding the units lost: you had a ratio of 441,109 : 17.484 wich is about 25.23 : 1!!!! That is, to me, surprisingly better then the vs Z ratio at 16.85 : 1 (that is 150%), but when you think about it the AI mined more in total and with the AI behind your choke still alive they came in smaller waves wich makes you lose less. On average you had a 3.6 : 1 Ratio per AI and 5.36 : 1 against the AI that lost the most. I think it is also cool that you can clearly see at 44:06 wich AI had a base mor than the others in resources lost.
It is great to see you still imporving and bringing great content to us! Keep it up!
Incredible stuff! A minor point - an unsieged tank actually outranges a PF (without the range upgrade) and does more single target damage than one in siege mode. So if you just want to gun down the PF its better to leave your tanks unsieged.
Something else I thought of. I wonder if the other AIs would defend your neighbour if you reduced them to one building but refused to accept their surrender.
That's actually a really smart idea, if not accepting surrender still forced the enemy to try to help, you could get 4 bases of mining while also hopefully breaking up the enemy army.
@@kurzackd no I know what I said. I suggested to reduce one of the AIs to one building and see if the remaining AIs try to defend that building.
STORYTIME!
rts games were my first computer games i played when i was like 5 and 6. although i played mostly warcraft and command and conquer. i never played against players.i was "too young" to play online lol.its really cool to see these challenges, it was mainly all i did when i was young. of course not at this level but its really cool to see you figuring out ways to beat them. thanks for all the effort you put into making your videos. cheers
The takeaway I got from this was: "Now you may think something, but I tried that and it sucked."
Congrats! Vs protoss u might wanna consider adding like 4 5 ghost to emp. Its gonna be hard to keep them alive but maybe saving them with medivacs is an option since ais aren't the smartest. (What I know from the campaign ai is that they like to target healers so maybe disabling the healing ability for the medivacs works?)
might as well try throwing in a raven or two for aa missile seeing how well they did vs protoss in the raven/hellion
I think immortals might be the biggedt issue due to the sheer bulk, so some emps might work, but I feel like interference matrix on some high value stuff might help more.
Oh my god already?! This is why we love you Marc! Keep the amazing content coming!
This is sooooooo awesome! just started watching your challenges roughly 2mos and made me want to play starcraft again! Looking forward to the 7AI protoss match! Keep em coming!
Now i wanna watch a 4v4 where you and heromarine each team up with 3 random AI lol
Thats actually a dope idea 👌👌👌
I never knew i wanted this until now. XD
Your talent, game knowledge and commentary is unbelievably wonderful. Big 👍 to you, keep it up ! :)
I imagine this is what WOL could've been. Out matched, out-gunned, and against an enemy that does not relent.
Have you seen Heromarine's win of Terran vs. 7 randoms on insane AI? He used a more mixed fleet with battlecruisers to win.
it was because he couldn`t make counter to some race, he needed to beat 3 different races
Heromarine also got very lucky he only had 1 Terran and it was completely bugged out almost the entire match.
Heromarine got lucky.
It was not bugged out, the AI avoids the liberator zone, therefore sieging them was a good way to confuse the AI and mess with the pathfinding. ;)
Wow. This is really great. The commentary was as good as the game. So much explanation and detail. I loved it. Looking forward to the Protoss challenge and if it's impossible a video with one of your attempts. Would really like to see it. Keep up the great work. Thank you for the content.
Amazing video. It's so fun to watch this haha, can't wait for the Protoss version! I wonder though, if you got +3 Armor you would take less damage, and need to repair less, in addition to having tougher units.
Just incredible! Thank you for the great content! Congrats on that achievement!!!
Maybe against Protoss you need to have ghosts in the mix and constantly emp before a big fight.
Hi Marc, awesome video as always. One thing I guess would be very interesting is if you would make a video with your first attempts trying the challenge. Showing the mistakes, the things you discover while you are discovering them, similar to the GM challenges.
Wow, this was amazing! 👏 You are literally insane, and I'm grateful for it! ☺️ Thank you!
Congratulations!! and thanks for making such an effort to produce entertaining content, I thought it would be months before this came out!! P.S. PiG said you didn't complete the challenge because it wasn't random but maybe if 7 Protos proves too much of a headashe for now then it might actually be easier to do random so there are loss protos?
PiG also said he didn't complete the challenge because there was a time limit. The deadline was several months ago, during the subathon which introduced the challenge and the bounty for completion.
Congrats on breaking another world record! Great vid. Looking forward to seeing Protoss. Im assuming 1v7 humans would be impossible right? Lol
Imagine all those drops... *shudders*
I am so looking forward to "against 7 insane protoss" if that is even possible!
The only possible answer is luring them in, that might be attempting a wall off that you abandon, or something else!
Give it a try and see if something works. Regardless of if you win or lose i would love to see a video!
That was beautiful! Really awesome to see someone do the ""ïmpossible". Thermy is that guy who did the 4 min mile and then people around the world started doing it.
For the protoss, did you try ghost emp in combination with the wall ? + Raven armor shred ?
Otherwise you can try nukes ! Against 6 armies in a single choke point, they cannot fly away that fast, your nuke will necessarily land on some %age of their combined armies (which would be cost efficient). You just need to deal with their ways of detection. That would be very cool to watch !
If you circle them with nukes (ghosts in your walls + sneaky ghosts outside coming from behind your ennemies when they go torward the choke point) the IA will panick and not know where to go.
Easy to say hard to do but well.. it could be cool to watch !
I tried this against 7 hard IA and those traps were very cool to setup ! I don't have the skill to try it against higher difficulty IA tho.
(I know the ennemies have vision on your level of difficulty but you can still trap them !)
Congrats on this accomplishment. I dip into Cheater 1 every once in a while and there is NO CHEESE ALLOWED! Always appreciated!
Great fun. I used to like Beasty doing these simmilar challanges. Cant wait for the 7 protos.
congratz, awesome to see how you figure it out and still hav the nerves to try protoss further =) , best of luck and i enjoy your channel a lot =) so thanks, for me you da kindest, sweetest SC 2 youtuber =) love it that u keep going here and raise you subs so fast , grateful greetings
Greetings @uThermal, I have completed all three challenges and let me just say, the key to success against protoss can be found in the phrase "nuclear launch detected".
But seriously godspeed, this is such amazing content and I can't wait to see what kind of delicious exploit you are able to cook up to combat the dreaded 1k supply a move protoss army.
Cool! Great job! 👍
Strange to watch a video without Marc's face, hope we see you next time!
And yes, interesting to see same challenge VS Protoss and VS Random! If VS Protoss it is not possible - should we complain on imbalance? )) But I very much believe you can do it!
Wow crazy game. Talk about out thinking the AI
@uThermal u mad man :D yesterday on your stream u toldme to check your yt today and here is the next crazy vs 7 insane game :D congratz ! Very nice play !
And for the 7 Protoss :
- Consider Ghosts , it would be hard to keep them alife and it cant be to many, but like 4-6 ghosts that when big chunks of toss try to enter the choke can drop an EMP should massivly impact.
- Raven may be another thing - same as with the ghost not to many just maybe 2-4 - if you can make good use of Interference Matrix on immortals (which should be the biggest problem in that describe crushing through you situations)
- Since protoss will impact with chargelots, the liberator/tank might do alot of damage but i feel like some of the chargelots will make it through what finally will make your tanks shoot each other. So maybe a small amount of Hellbat in front could change that. They are repair-able, and if you can spend the little gas for blue flame they might do a good job
I actually would be most worried about tempest + high templare in a big mix. Even if in theory you can rip the tempest using vicings, if the protoss randomly storms your vicing stack it might end it very fast. And tempest will otherway hardcounter your sieged position.
Gl anyway and looking forward to the Video :)!
Absolutely insane! You're so cool. Love the analysis
I feel like because the majority of protoss units have so much more health than their zerg or Terran counterparts, attack upgrades for seige tanks and libs would actually be much more important.
Wow! This challenge turns out to require some counter-intuitive brilliance -- the kind only UThermal can come up with: don't upgrade and don't max out. Win. Crazy.
LOL! Called it on twitch... Sorry for ruining the surprise uThermal.. Guess my map hack spidey sense strikes again.
tnx for the episode. definitely would love to see more. best worst tries as well plz.
You need to spam emps and anti armour missile to win against protoss, when they rush your turtle setup
Extraordinary skills! Amazing that you found a way to get them to feed themselves slowly through a choke point. I admit I still don't understand why the AI doesn't just send huge armies with diversified units.
Wow, just wow. Don't have a pc to play SC anymore. You're channel is filling my sc fix. Amazing.
I wonder if you can leave a very small pathway with the liberators at your entrance, so the enemy thinks they can go through but they'll die to the tanks instead.
Amazing video. Always inspiring me to learn and practice at StarCraft. Keep up the great content
Awesome win. Even if the Protoss turns out to be impossible, do you think you’ll post any of the attempts? I’m pretty sure if it’s as hard as you are saying, it’s going to take the AI derping a lot like when Heromarine played the 7 random AI and won. He was getting hundreds of kills when the Protoss was just running in circles at the bottom of ramps and stuff for no reason and the only Terran AI didn’t even make an appearance until the game was almost over so that was very helpful as well, not that it was Big Gabe’s fault lol. So I think for the Protoss challenge you’ll just need a little luck or to find some kind of bug but it would still be fun to see some of your closest attempts. Thank you for all the great content Sir!
you could still save about 1k mineral by using the orbital command ability to add 8 supply by depot
Yes, I absolutely would like to see more content like this. I just wonder what might be next, now that all the races are done. 7 cheater AIs all set to rush? Seems impossible, but so did this one. ;)
for real he's not lying about those Thors - I saw 4 of them one shot a BC and was blown away.
Good job! By the way, I think a siege comp to GM would be fun! (Tanks and liberators only.) Don't know if it would be possible, but it would be interesting!
You might be able to do the protoss run if you micro'd ghost EMPs as well as you did the vikings here. no shields and energy in the middle of their a-move would blunt the worst.
Absolutely fantastic work. your videos are excellent!
The only thing I could even fathom to improve this is a single dropship. There are times that you could have utilized it's ability to move SCV, Thors. That said, every 1% a dropship heals an SCV will be a step to compensate the 100 minerals it took to create the dropship. As well as the situations where you want to move a tank or destroy a turret. There is the fact that an SCV used to repair a dropship from inside. I don't know if that's the case anymore (could have been patched out) but still an interesting idea to consider.
Now, I REALLY want to see 1v7 Toss!
awesome perseverance and performance, keep the great work!
I love these videos its very satisfying to watch entire armies get shredded. I wanna see you do it with zerg so that we get a proper lurker blender at the choke.
This wouldn't work at all with zerg, you dont have the ranged splash damage necessary to survive the early game
It may be an exploit but from what I've seen the Ai looks like it stops producing workers when you finish all the resources. Which in turn means they can create bigger armies. So maybe just keep 1 mineral patch on the map so they keep producing workers
I know this video is few days old now and it was excellent quality. You asked for any ideas that might help my only thought was using ravens with thier deploy turret to help bait the AI into your choke death zone so you dont loose any units next time.
I'm not exactly sure why UA-cam recommended your channel, but its entertaining
That was awesome 😎, i know it's probably been said by others in the comments but i would not misuderestimates the power of the turrets upgrade AS WELL AS / AND STRUCTURE UPGRADE! You give you an incredible boost, if you would open early ebay.... with on all the work have done the turrets in this game it would give you such and edge also considerate that Ai's doesn't upgrade much😎😎🚀 GG! WAS an insane game!👻💪
Love this video Marc! Congrats! 👏🎉
New challenge: beat 7 Insane Terran AIs without using Siege Tanks 😉
that thumbnail looks lowkey how wings of liberty should have felt
Absolutely amazing!
Thanks for a very entertaining game!
Congratulations Marc! You're a legend
Used to do this in StarCraft 1. But I used two cheat codes… operation claw and show me the money. I don’t remember the map name, but it was an 8 player map with one choke for each base. I basically did the same thing, just lined the tanks up and had Valkyries for aa, but I also used cheats lol.
Idk, you should experiment into an island maps versus insane AI. I feel like island maps are an untapped way of playing. Because it requires you to play so much differently then the traditional ground connected playstyle that’s always shown and advertised for matches.
I’d be very much interested in seeing an island map play through. I feel like they were so much more popular in StarCraft 1 and Warcraft 2,3.
The mad lad. He really did it
I love the scv as 37:41 running in to attack the cc.
Very good. Thanks for bringing the value.👍✌️
I think versus protoss you probably have to have 4 or 5 ghosts to emp clumped armies trying to a-move through you to make it holdable, but I’ve never tried the challenge so who knows. Seems like removing thousands of hp in shields with some emp’s could be good though.
That was HUGE. Congrats!!!
I can’t believe you did this! Amazing!! Go marc!!
Thank you for doing these AI challenges, I absolutely love them. Cheers
EMP shot is probably a necessity against protoss, it cripples archs/immos/HTs, but it's probably a nightmare to micro. Because of the sheer variety of army outputs they'll presumably send, it might not actually be possible without forcing builds or a very lucky match. Observers, carriers, voids, collossi - they have so many ways to retaliate against the high ground ghosts with EMP would love to abuse. They easily counter libs, often counter harass mineral lines with phoenix, destroy bio with aoe...
Honestly, victory over the protoss probably depends very heavily on what they build as a determining factor in your own build, and is going to require heavy simultaneous micro on multiple different small unit groups. But, aside from ghosts, probably don't build bio and you'll probably need all the mech
awesome strategy skills dude!
This type of challenge was my Jam in Sc1 lol. Fun to see in Sc2!
The reason the A.I. keeps an army in their base is it is waiting for SOMETHING to change so they can be effective.
As soon as the choke is gone and you move out it registers that your choke is empty and it tries assaulting again.
Until then it'll keep more than enough to wipe you hidden where you have to move to get to it.
It has Patience. And long-term planning.
Xmas came sooner this year. Thank you!
Brilliant game! Question: Could it be interesting to scan the mineral lines of your opponent, and drop a bunch of mules in order to weaken their economy?
That felt like surviving to several zombie waves
I so would have loved seeing ghosts nuking that choke😎
Dude no way. I'm so here for it.
Beautifully executed. It's wild that they just completely ignore your bases because your army is on the low ground. The AI could definitely use more advanced harrasment behavior.
Holy sh+t you actually done it, it has been done!
yea i would love to see more of these vids
A Theory I have regarding the armor on building/units is something to consider as an economic choice. As the repair of a unit is 25% of the original cost, saving 2 damage per hit, over the course of the game would have a chance to save a significant amount of % health. That would translate to the cost of repairs over time. That means that at least the first and second armor increase, if early enough, could easily pay for itself over the course of the game. The question is if there's an opportunity to gain it early enough to not mess with the tempo of your strategy needs.
While in 1v1, the ideal of 1 armor preventing death makes sense, I think researching the amount of damage a unit can take per % of repair cost could help justify at least 1 armor upgrade.
So I decided to run some numbers on this for the first armor upgrade:
Vikings cost 150 minerals and 75 gas and have 135 hp, so after 720 repaired hits against vikings you will have saved 200 minerals and 100 gas, paying for the first armor upgrade
Liberators cost 150 minerals and 150 gas and have 180 hp, so after 480 repaired hits against liberators you will have saved 100 minerals and 100 gas, paying for the first armor upgrade
Siege tanks cost 150 minerals and 125 gas and have 175 hp, so after 560 repaired hits against tanks you will have saved 120 minerals and 100 gas, paying for the first armor upgrade
Thors cost 300 minerals and 200 gas and have 400 hp, so after 800 repaired hits against thors you will have saved 150 minerals and 100 gas, paying for the first armor upgrade
Note that this assumes the AI does the same thing against you in either scenario; if the AI responds to you making armor upgrades by making more weapon upgrades (I have no idea whether that's the case, but it is strange that in this game the AI chose to stop at 1/1), then it's a net loss because weapon upgrades add *at least* one damage per hit, often more.
@@tanonevacm Thank you for running the numbers. It was a theory and I appreciate you taking the time for the rudimentary testing. Good point about the potential AI adjustments. I feel more now that this is a good concept to test. As a note, the numbers for SCV and Turrets are relevant, even if they aren't gas. Only to put into perspective the potential econ, that's all.
Another thing to consider is that this math covers the entire army as a whole. Such as 200 repaired hits on one unit + 100 repaired hits on another unit + 50 hit on a third unit, etc. I do believe that (assuming AI adjustments are not responsive to it) at least a 1/1 upgrade is a potential opportunity for an economic move moreso than simply unit survivability.
@uthermal, how do you think, would it be more interesting if there were endless resources on bases? So you cannot just wait until bots run out of resources, but have to attack them. On the other side - you can invest as much as you need.
Again, lol. Always impressed by your vids
Congratulations man!
Well done makes me want to get back into playing sc2 again
The hero we wanted. The hero we didnt know we needed. The entire sc2 community is behind you
Mãi mới thấy 1 ông Việt Nam cmt
Against the Protoss, I would think that you would need to have either/or ghosts and ravens. Ghosts would be able to use their emp to wipe out shields in AoE, while ravens would be able to use their missiles to lower the defense with AoE. That would make a march through the tanks and liberators much more suicidal for those units. Just a thought.
EMP seems the play against Protoss.
1) Regenerates costing nothing to use.
2) Drops the HP pool of all units effected.
3) Removed Immortal damage mitigation and destroys the Archons.
now that´s wild O.o, thought the last one had been crazy; but thats just ... so insane, even A.Hitler would call that insanity :D
Holy shit. Already?
Great job Marc what a record!!!
Maybe the trick to protoss is play protoss mass batteries lol
I think you can do a similar thing with Protoss but you'd probably have to micro a quite sizable Ghost army to always have energy for EMP to soften up their army so they can't just walk through Tank, Turret and Liberator. Protoss with shields up is the most busted thing in late game.