Hey Aidens! I live near the great smoky mountains and frequent the plethora of trails there, if you want some company during your time there in November, I would be honored to accompany you and help in anyway possible about the area. Much love from East Tennessee 🤘🏽
You guys coming to the Smokies? *In a heavily exaggerated accent* “Well now, that there is close to my neck o’ the woods!” Hey just a heads up. Bear mace has to be the funniest thing I’ve ever heard of people putting their faith in. Get real bear repellent. Make lots of noise. Don’t get eaten by a bear, please.
It is very clear to anyone who has read or written an academic paper that citations are critical to credibility. In fact It is critical to all writings about true events. Aidan is absolutely correct to criticize an author who fails to cite his or her sources. And the fact that he puts his cites in the description proves he practices what he preaches! Again excellent job Aidan.
As a former two-pack a day smoker, there is no way, hike or no hike, would I leave home without my cigarettes. I would go nowhere, no matter how short a trip, without them. Also, Valium is absolutely in the category of a tranquilizer. 100%.
It might be why she was hustling to get back to the campground. I had constant the possibility that she was hurrying because she urgently needed to visit the washroom, but if that had been the case she probably would not have looked back and laughed.
100% my mother was prescribed Valium for her anxiety (this is Australia so you can only get Valium from a doctor) and the first time she took one she was in the middle of a sentence then basically keeled over. I was half convinced she was dead for a second there. ETA: and I think it actually says on the box “sedative medicine”
Y'all my bad, I put the title card as "Thelma Melton" but it didn't save, so instead it says "Paul Lemaitre" since that was the last episode I used the title for, and I didn't catch the mistake on the preview prior to upload. Please forgive me 😅
Valium can cause diarrhea. It's possible she had a bathroom emergency and was too embarrassed to say anything. So she walks ahead of the group either to get back to the campsite more quickly or so she could walk off the trail and do her business without anyone noticing. When the group calls out to her she smiles, letting them know she's fine but doesn't want to announce to the whole world that she has to go. She rounds the bend, decides she can't hold it and goes off the trail far enough that passersby can't see her. On her way back, perhaps a bit confused from the Valium, she realizes she has lost the trail and goes deeper into the woods trying to find her way back. Eventually, she injures herself or experiences a medical event and passes away, somewhere where it's difficult to find a body (perhaps under thick brush).
I was looking for this explanation. ❤ I live in the desert, and hikers go missing. Now you’d think it would be easy to locate these people, given sparse vegetation & lack of steep mountains, and endless bland colored landscape. Not the case. Many cases are only solved months/years later by the accidental discovery of human remains. I have never personally been to this vast national park, but it sounds like she could be off trail, out of sight, passing away from a heart attack. And no hunter will stumble upon her, since this is prohibited. Her age, 2 pack a day, a bit overweight, probably not being in good overall health and taking prescription meds. Death finds us all. Really appreciate your channel!
the question there though is why didnt the dogs smell it though? i assume feces can be at least loosely tied to an individual, and if it can then the dogs should have at least noticed a weak trail. or maybe its not the type of thing the dogs can associate with an individual. (im not a dog or a dog handler) but even if a bathroom site wasnt tracked, that means there should have been some trail. i think itd be likely that the dogs found something, altho of course its not guaranteed.
When talking about the jewelry people are wearing around 19:00, most southern people that own/wear jewelry that has gold or diamonds will typically wear the exact same things every day, or wear certain things with certain clothes, so I feel like this was just a case of "this lady is known to wear these exact jewelry pieces every day"
That's what I do for normal things. If I'm going out to dinner or something like that I wear extra but just normally I wear the same things. Plus they said rings and a diamond watch band. I wouldn't exactly call that wearing jewelry. Wearling jewelry would have been earrings and bracelets along with the other two. And the rings probably were her engagement and wedding rings.
Biochemist/Genetic Genealogist here and yes, scrutinizing other researchers' work is built into the entire system. If your work can't stand up to such inquiry, then it's considered substandard and of poor quality. Also, a lack of citations/notes makes anything stated highly questionable, and any conclusions unsubstantiated. It's remarkanly impressive how much this channel does question others' work while also doing their own research. A truly academic and scientific approach!
I hope you see this. Please look into the disappearance of the Jack family from British Columbia. Right by the Highway of Tears. Parents and two children gone. The RCMP and media barely touched the case (the family is indigenous) 🤔 *cough cough* Please bring awareness to this case and the Highway of Tears
The more people that cover the Jack family case, the better. The RCMP has failed them in every way possible. (I know ABSTRACT has a really good video about the Jack family disappearance, and helped the case to get a wiki page iirc)
Gasp, are you telling me the RCMP botched a case??? Like did they completely ignore requests to search, then when they did search ruined any possible evidence they found, and ended the search early and ignored anyone with evidence or new information? So many cases are completely ruined because of the ineptitude of the RCMP, and that’s sad because I grew up believing they were an elite law enforcement unit. Of course I was relying on tv as a US resident in the fairly Deep South. I hope Aiden decides to cover it!
Yea, a lot of women(especially older women) will wear the exact same jewelry every day. I can tell you every piece my mom would have on, every piece my aunt would have on as well just because I have been seeing them wear it all my life ✌🏽
Yeah, the "couple of rings" especially ... that could easily be one engagement ring, one wedding ring. A lot of older women don't feel fully dressed without those. And the diamond watchband ... well, presumably it's attached to a watch, and a lot of older women don't feel dressed without that either.
I’m 61 and I wore the same diamond ring for over 25 years until I had to take it off for repairs. It never ever came off unless I was having some kind of a medical procedure and had to take it off Anybody who knows me well can tell you exactly what jewelry I wear every day, always the same.
These cases sometimes reminds me of a finnish folklore named ”metsänpeitto” or ”metsänkätkö” which means the forest's secret place for hiding things. Swedes in Finland calls this ”skogen håller” which means the forest keeps. It’s a bit hard to explain what it means, but basically it’s a term in Finnish which refers to the belief that the forest can hide or imprison people or domestic animals such as cows or horses so that they could not escape and would be invisible to people who went in search of them. We have a lot of stories like that. That someone is in a familiar forest, but suddenly they just don’t recognize the forest around them anymore, everything’s a bit off, and nothing looks familiar at all. Some get out of it, but there’s some who never return.
I want to say one thing about getting lost in the woods, especially familiar woods. If you hike the trails, and don't go off them, the "Woods" can be very unfamiliar. I got lost many times as a child in my local state park because a tree looked nothing like the trailside version of the tree. I'd end up on a completely different trail a few hundred yards in the other direction. It is much, much easier to get lost in the woods than you would think, and I think a lot of authors of these "missing persons" books and articles who are from areas with much more prominent landmarks (think west coast and rockies) underestimate how easy you can get lost in a flat or fairly flat forest. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm just quicker to get lost, but I feel like way too many people underestimate how easy it is to get lost.
I became disoriented and lost just once. It was an area I had been in before. Possibly the angle of the sun provided an unusual look causing the disorientation. Only was for a short time, say 20 minutes, but you start to sweat it.
My sister and I walked into the woods to take pictures once. I thought we were coming the right way back but I took her advice and we went a diff way. Before we knew it we were on trials that led to nowhere, just dense trees and had to turn around. Didn't even know which direction we had come from by that point. Needless to say we were lost for around 13 hours on an oilfield and the property owner found us on the main trail we kept going back to, super scary stuff.
It's so incredibly likely and most plausible that she never left those woods. She slipped and fell somewhere no one could see her. You hear all the time about people being found just blocks or miles from their home even though everyone swore they looked there. They just didn't see her body.
I got lost in my nearby state park back in the late 70s at age 20 or 21. I hiked this 3 mile trail once a month since age 16. A storm had knocked down some trees over the trail. I went around and lost pathway. I continued to walk for a couple of hours until i crossed a different trail that lead back to my car. A 90 minute hike became 3 hours.
You might even say it was a Three Hour Tour. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I'll take myself to a desert island and contemplate how scary getting lost can be
30:30 this is the truest form of journalism. SOURCES MATTER!!! Your dedication to finding credible sources is the reason I admire this channel so damn much.
When he first talks about her walking faster and disappearing around a bend and they didn't see her, my brain immediately went "oh she had to poop and dipped off the trail" Like I knew that this was going to be a disappearance, but idk why my brain was like "that's how you act when you gotta GO" ya know?
@@Galamoth06 yeah I thought I made it clear in my comment but I'm not suggesting that bathroom needs explains how she disappeared. I just think it explains the behavior her friends said they saw. The walking faster to get ahead and being cheeky about it could be her trying to not get embarrassed about dipping into the woods for some privacy. What happened after that, I have no idea.
Honestly, your academic / research integrity and focus on the reliability of sources and viewing things objectively are the biggest reasons I love your channel. Thank you for all your hard work!
I just got back tonight after 6 days and 26 miles of hiking in the Smokies. I *finally* got to see a bear in the distance and a bonus elk on the side of the road. The timing of this video is perfect!
We were taught in middle school and high school not to trust anything without sources. It's dangerous to just assume things, especially in cases like this. I love that you point that out.
If she started walking fast enough to get ahead of her hiking buddies, then I don't think the tranquilizer, assuming she had taken it, was affecting her reaction time.
Actually, given all of her specific conditions and the metabolic implications of such, a low dose definitely would have enabled her to function better and go faster. The first time they gave me one in the ER for the same conditions, all I could think was "Y'alls bodies work this way ALL the time?" They hadnt even been able to take my blood pressure because my arm would turn black every time the cuff engaged. But after that valium my blood pressure was perfect. I think the only way she wouldnt have been able to carry on is if the meds wore off.
@@Holy.HannaHthis is a huge thing people don't consider too! Lots of us who need meds only function while on the meds (which is the point of taking them) many drugs only screw with you if you are taking them recreationally, not being properly medicated.
There's a couple explanations, that nobody thought of. 1.Foul play, by her friends on the trail. Maybe, she was messing around with one, or both of their husbands. Or, they with her's. Or, they didn't like her for some other reason. 2.Foul play by her husband, as in she did make it off the trail, but he said she didn't. Maybe, they were having marital problems. Nobody would've thought to look at these things, because they exclusively treating it as a lost person. Which is weird, because it's like saying someone got lost walking on the street they live on. It wasn't a campground to her, she lived there.
I only found your channel about a week ago and have been binging all your videos ever since. It’s an amazing breath of fresh air to listen to historical, informational, and mysterious content during my 10+ hour shifts rather than the same music over and over again. I especially love the history segments. You’ve opened my brain to a lot and have deepened my philosophical thinking about life and history. I’m grateful to have found your channel please keep it up 🙌
I wear the same jewelry every day. My Fitbit watch, I have gold hoops that I rarely remove from my ears. I wear my college class ring and a wedding band. I don't normally wear a necklace. My sisters could tell you exactly what jewelry I wear. My grandmother always wore an enamel feather pin on her dress, shirt or jacket depending on the weather. It was a gift from my grandfather.
Don’t need to apologize for research, most research involves scrutinizing all ideologies. Without looking at all conclusions or speculations, you can’t come to any logical outcome. Keep up the good work it’s refreshing to see and hear.
Xanax is fast acting, and metabolized MUCH faster than Valium… Valium (diazepam) has an extremely long half life, kicks in slower and lasts longer in the body, potentially causing impairment long after the initial effects wear off…. I work in the medical field lol. Just a minor correction no big deal ! This channel is SO GREAT!!!
I noticed that as well. I don't work in the medical field but I used to be on those and researched it quite a bit. They were hell to get off. Literally hell would be nicer. 😂
@@badmanskill1112 IMO the idea of hell being a place of pain, torment & consternation for our sins is just canonically incorrect. Considering the Devil is it's ruler, he would likely try to make a place comparable to heaven while allowing those in his domain to have autonomy, a large degree of free will and freedom to do whatever they'd like.
the fact that people constantly accuse you of "not being supportive" of others when you criticize people's research is wild to me have these people never had to write a paper for school before? fact-checking and verifying sources' credibility is just part of the process those same people that want you to "be supportive" of someone who is misreporting facts (or things that are supposed to be facts) are indirectly saying that they are in favor of the massive spread of misinformation that is a huge problem in today's world if I'm to believe someone's account of an event, I'm going to fact-check and cross reference it with other works that's just how research works
I had Valium when I got LASIK, and it messed me up lol. I was watching TV, I could acknowledge the passing of time, but I swear it had only been 5 minutes when in reality it was well over an hour.
I used to camp all over the Deep Creek area in the late 70's, early 80's. I remember this story. Couple of observations: first, animal predation is the least crazy explanation, but I can tell you that after 8+ years of camping and hiking the Deep Creek area...nope. I never saw a bear, heard of a bear being seen. No mountain lions, bobcats...nothing. Mainly because that area is saturated (and was back then) with "tourists" - people, making noise, pets barking. I quit going up there because of the over saturation of people...and it was that way in 1981. I just cannot accept the theory of animal attack...although it is (as I said above) the least crazy explanation. Great episode!
Yeah, and I feel that the presence of dangerous animals there would warrant some additional safety measures on the part of the park... not that it’s impossible for it to happen but it’s… hmm.
I just caught up on a handful of recent videos and now I’m actually on time for a premier. Yesss. Wishing you well. Thanks for the hard work, every video is quality stuff.
Chain smoking out of shape 30 year old Kansan here. I throw 200lbs of dog food over my shoulder and march 50 yards without much issue on a weekly basis. A lot of rural people are ridiculously strong even when we're unhealthy and aging. Never underestimate the human animal. As a species we are the most dangerous predators on the planet.
I was legit gonna say the same, being in "bad health" doesn't mean weak or lacking muscle tone. My mum at 50 (though 5foot 5inches, and 170lbs) was a beast (not a smoker mind you). Myself at 32, smoking for 20 years (I know, bad) I am smaller than my mum and I could still defend myself against someone twice my size, even with asthma and a bad back. Rural people just get things done regardless.
"30 year old, 200lbs ... over my shoulder, march 50 yards without much issue on a weekly basis." Sorry to say but that is quite a mediocre performance in my world. The question is, can you run/jog* 5-7 miles. Uphill and downhill. On a dirt road. On a path. In the forest. Without any pauses, of course. *always one foot off the ground
Is no one gonna talk about how 170-190 for someone who is 5'10"-5'11" is not even close to overweight. Like that's not even really an unhealthy weight. Unless people got her weight wrong, I don't think she should be considered unhealthy because of her weight
this confused me during the episode. people kept referring to her as overweight, but if you look up a picture of a 5’10” 180lbs female, they look like your average day-to-day female. yes this would technically still be overweight, but goodness they made it sound like she was obese. i know much bigger people (like over 100lbs bigger) who avidly hike without much issue. the smoking 2 packs a day would definitely impact her ability to hike but her weight? i don’t think so
Yay, a new one!!!!! I've recently begun beinge watching trying to hide in two things I adore, mystery and history. Mom's cancer is back with not a good out look so this week, you have helped me hide from my 24hr hell these days!! Ty and keep em coming plz!!!!!❤💔
Valium was prescribed pretty freely back then, especially for women. A lot of doctors prescribed it for "Frequent Flyers," patients who came to the doctor regularly for minor or non-existent ailments. My mother was prescribed Valium for sleep. It was sort of a panacea when doctors couldn't pinpoint what was wrong with the patient.
I always say my mom was a pill head before being a pill head was a thing. She had a doctor in KY and TN. Valium and Percocets. Yes doctors prescribed it like candy in the 70s and 80s
loved the episode, though i have one gripe. i understand 5’10” 180lbs would have been considered bigger back then at the time of the case, but at some point in the episode you pointed out her weight as being a reason she probably wouldn’t be able to do too much on the trail. her weight shouldn’t have (in my opinion) significantly impacted her ability to hike in the more difficult areas. yes, she would be considered overweight even today, but just barely. the anecdotes in this video made it sound like she was obese, but if you look up a picture of a 5’10” 180lbs woman, they look pretty average size. her smoking habit would’ve kicked her butt, but i doubt her weight would.
It’s so disheartening that people give you a hard time for pointing out where others’ work is shoddy. That’s pretty basic if you care about, you know, the truth? Being ethical? Having principles? Sigh.
People are so fickle or they just follow the herd. There was a recent incident where a youtuber got called out for making up things. Literally manufacturing evidence, which I had called her out in her comments section many times. Cuz she was making stuff up, giving her credentials as to how she knows certain things and was getting debunked on the regular, obsessed with the subject. People would talk about her regularly on other UA-cam channel comments. So 2 tubers had a show & called her out. They said that they tried talking to her to no avail& they've had discussions with each other about how she's making the community look bad because people will judge the entire community (which they do). So they have this show & a few people start blaming them for "doing it like they did it". I don't know how else you would do it if you've had talks. So everybody jumps on the bandwagon blaming the informers for the show & their later apology & not the offender. And now the offender is emboldened & calling them out. Go figure!!! Aidan is great tho!😊
Their are types of people out there that get their feelings hurt if you are critical of something they like or believe. They arent able to separate themselves from it.
I completely understand why you criticize authors like Paulides and Baldwin. It's absolutely necessary to cite sources and be objective when covering cases like this. Keep up the great work 💯
lol my dad is super paranoid about safety, so he forced us to put something on the bottom of all of the pairs of shoes we bring while camping and stamp it on a piece of paper that is kept at the campsite in case we go missing.
I'm mostly a wallflower on this channel but Adian, you have every right as a researcher yourself to point out the short comings and mistakes of others that have made these kinda claims. The thing I love most about this channel is just how passionate and in depth y'all are at learning everything you can about the people/places & their history that you deliver to us here. I'm a huge proponent of "knowledge is power" and when you're telling a story about real people that experienced real things, I'd argue it is incredibly important to have all of the facts CORRECT. So thank you for always putting forth that extra effort. It is not unnoticed nor unappreciated and 💩on anyone who complains about what y'all create for us!
I grew up camping in the Smokies, in the early 80's with my family. I remember always seeing missing posters at the rest areas and campgrounds. It was just a fact of life that people went missing there. I've never even thought about it as weird until now.
I rarely comment on videos, but I stopped what I was doing to comment on this one because you said something like, feedback is meant to make us better.
Credibility issues should be brought up when applicable. I trust your work because you do question commonly used sources and you freely admit when you are wrong. It is part of the type of research you do.
I am 5’ 9”, weigh around 170, am 50 years old, smoked at least a pack a day since high school, have joint problems and arthritis issues… I am not in any position to run off a start a new life, to run out of cigarettes, walk briskly ahead for seventy five yards… she may have felt uninhibited enough to make a bad decision when put there. Valium decreases pain (I’ve had enough of it), and when taken for a period of time, is always “flying” and unaware in that state. That being said, I wonder if there was anyone that she had turned down for a membership at the campground? Exclusion could make someone angry, who really wanted a spot. Just a thought.
I got lost in the trails behind my grandmothers cabin in Bryson City and I eventually found the road and found my way back. I had the dog with me and let me tell you, he was no Lassie! 😂 It is ez to get lost. Also, we lived close to deep creek. Grandmas road was the back way into Deep Creek. This story is very close to a place I once called him for a chapter of my life. Wow.
I'm glad this case resurfaced, especially on this channel where you know the research is top notch. No single explanation really sits well with this woman, nothing sounds plausible enough to be true, it's crazy. What I did hear somewhere is she was known to be very reluctant to ever use a phone, which makes it all the more intriguing why she suddenly does the day before she vanished.. Those calls could have everything to do with it or absolutely nothing, how distinctly frustrating we'll never know which.
To be fair, A relative being fairly certain that a woman was wearing specific items of jewlery and a specific watch, despite not seeing her for weeks or even months was not at all unreasonable for that time period. As a child of the 60s, I can assure you that it was entirely normal for a woman to wear the exact same few items of jewelry every day for decades. They would perhaps wear additional pieces for special occasions, but those few signature pieces were a constant part of their wardrobes. Wearing a favorite watch for decades was entirely normal for men, women, and even children. Everyone old enough to tell time wore a wristwatch at all times, If they were waterproof, we usually even wore them into the shower. It was almost more unthinkable then to leave home without your watch than it is today to be without your phone. Even us wealthy folks seldom changed them. Generally, the only time we did was when we got a new one, which then entirely replaced the previous one.
The thing about scrutinizing other researchers is the truth freaking matters. The whole point of all of this, I hope, for all these researchers is to figure out what really happened to these people. Not to tell a likely story. Not to have a few theories, but what ACTUALLY happened. And to do that we need true facts. We MUST examine all the facts presented to us in these cases for accuracy if we ever hope to put these missing folks to rest by finding answers. I very much appreciate the journalistic integrity of the boys at the lodge and even though I disagree with their ideas or conclusions in some cases I continue to return to their coverage because at the very least I trust their facts.
100%. I just told my husband that these lovely gentlemen have the most detailed information of any other UA-camrs I’ve seen. And I want every single detail even if it may seem insignificant. I’m not usually interested in Missing 411 but I am if it’s covered by The Lodge. Wow, I sound like a buttkisser but I’m actually highly finicky about who I listen to/watch.
You do so much work and it comes off very clear in your videos and content just how passionate you guys are about accuracy and factual information. That's why I enjoy your channel so much. Just thought you should know that all of the work you guys put in is definitely not going to waste or not being appreciated because so many of us actually trust your thoughts and theories because of this. You don't just go....huh, bigfoot. You start at a place of realism and plausibility, and it just makes your coverages so much better than most other channels.
I really love your channel, which is why I feel the need to throw in my two cents here. The way you've explained valium and its' effects here are not very accurate and I think may be misleading for some people. Depending on the person's history of use of benzos, their biological/physiological response (which is *extremely* specific to every individual when it comes to psychiatric medications and benzodiazepines are particularly tricky ones), their environment, the exact intended use (panic disorder, generalized anxiety, specific phobias or a particular event/procedure that the medication has been given for, any comorbid mental illness issues, their metabolism, the dose, the environment in which the meds are taken, and a ton of other factors that it would take me ages to list, it's nearly impossible to determine how an individual will respond to a medication like valium and nowhere near possible without more info. I'm not sure if you may have had dosage and use history that you didn't include for time that allowed for more educated guesses but the anecdote of having it before your dental procedure may further mislead viewers unless you know this individual's specific factors around the use of this drug. It absolutely could be exactly as you described. It could be so so so different. It can certainly make someone loopy. It also is likely to reduce their inhibitions, cause anterograde amnesia, and if they consume any alcohol or other drugs at the same time serious interactions may occur. It's just so much more complicated than the way this video describes it and I totally know you guys cant break down into the neuroscience of it all to the extent that would allow people to truly understand but I do think the way it's described here is problematic at best. Obviously it's totally your video and channel and I respect that, but as someone with a pretty in-depth understanding of these medications, psychology/psychiatry, etc. but who is by no means a doctor or psychiatrist--I think the explanation given may mislead those with little to no experience in the area and I can see this popping up in comments already. I hope this portion may be reconsidered, perhaps the removal of the personal anecdote and a more general description of the drug/intended uses/most common side effects that is still brief but not so definitive about things like "it won't make you loopy" and including the importance of the effects on inhibition, memory, and other executive cognitive functions while on the drug just using a simple description maybe from somewhere like WebMD would be the most appropriate way to keep it simple without misrepresenting the advantages and disadvantages of taking such a drug. I say all of this with respect and only because I believe you guys really do strive for accuracy and to provide the viewers factual information in these stories, obviously you are hella knowledgeable about a lot of things--no one expects you to be perfect or to have the highest level of expertise on every single aspect mentioned in one of your many videos, so I hope this doesn't sound rude or judgemental, I just wanted to offer some constructive feedback with regard to this specific small but potentially important fact of the case (or potentially not important at all and I'm being a pain in the butt for no reason--I'm certainly not an expert in missing persons cases, that's for sure!) Again, I say all of this in good faith. I'm new here but I have been binging your videos and I'm a big fan so far. I hope maybe this is helpful in some way and doesn't come off as me being a smartass. Thanks for all the great content!
@@SGDaley Fair but if anyone does I'm cool with having a discussion about it! Just something I thought was worth some extra attention since there are many ways this may have affected what happened--or maybe it is completely irrelevant. I'm ok with that! Might be worth considering more deeply. Human behaviour is flat out weird on a good day, start adding substances and potential emotional stressors... well... things can get real weird real fast!
As a woman in my 50’s I’m convinced this was related to a SEVERE need to go to the bathroom. When you have to go THAT bad, you can’t even think straight. I think she got off trail to go to the bathroom and got lost. Looking at the topography of the trail, I think she may have rolled down into the creek. Given the depth and waterfalls, she was probably further injured in the process.
Keep being critical. This is why i watch. TL;DR= This topic is a pet peve of mine. People associate criticism of ideas with criticizing character (google Adam Grant's work). I live by the rule, "I don't care that I'm right, I care that I eventually get it right". That by definition, makes space for me to have some of things is say to be shredded from time to time. That's also the same framework as science. I'm a data scientist, so my craft is literally about making the probability of being wrong as small as possible. Lol.
wow this is a odd case. I live on the Swain County side of the Cherokee Reservation. 15 minutes away from Deep Creek. I asked my aunt about this and she remembers this case because of how for a while people around here just stopped going on trails anywhere near Deep Creek. It's super cool that you guys are coming down here. If you need any old timers perspective on this case from what they can recall I could definitely set up some interviews for you.
I wonder if she was having a bathroom emergency, felt embarrassed to say it, and decided to book it ahead of everyone so she could go a bit into the woods. Maybe she had a stroke or aneurysm due to her various health issues, got confused, and wondered off. Then passed away. Idk, just something that popped into my head.
As a person who is studying paleontology, paleoanthropolgy, and has some heavy research into missing persons cases. Not citing resources or sources is one of the most genuine infuriating things i will sometimes come across
I don't have any great ideas about this case but I do have a couple random thoughts. Anyone who has spent any time in the woods knows that when you see a bear, DON'T RUN! You back away, try to look big, and yell. Polly spent so much time there, she'd know that. Same thing for cougars. Smokers always keep their cigs on them, even if she didn't plan on smoking during the hike. I know that many women in that age category wear the same jewelry every day, but when camping? It seems so odd to me, especially the diamond watch. I've hiked with various groups my whole life. When someone has to pee, it's common to let the others know that you're going to "step off the trail for a minute." I've always had the habit of asking someone to stay on the trail where I depart from it to let me know if other hikers are approaching. My code word with my husband for this is "clock radio." Silly and I don't even remember how that started. If she was disappearing intentionally, there would have been countless other and easier ways to do it.
I'm with you. I've got nothing. This makes absolutely no sense. Best I can figure is that she literally stepped out of existence, fell off the train and somehow got missed in someplace inaccessible nearby, or intentionally vanished. The problem is the latter two have a lot of evidence against them. This is absolutely (*Jack Sparrow Hands with X-Files Music*)
I could tell you right now with absolute certainty what jewelry my grandmother is wearing and what jewelry my other grandma had on the day she died 18 years ago. I also wear the same jewelry every day unless it’s m dressing up for something and wear costume jewelry to match an outfit. Most women over around let’s say the age of 30 have a few “good” pieces of jewelry that are usually sentimental that they wear every day. Probably everyone in my family could tell you if you don’t find my wedding ring, my diamond earrings, and my grandmother’s necklace in my things if I go missing then I had them on whether they saw me that day or not.
I really like your deeper dives into these cases and your point about looking critically at the research. It is well taken- the work someone does should speak for itself. If it’s solid, and well researched, there will be fewer mistakes to find.
Great comment/explanation of peer review! As an academic and teacher I often find myself explaining this to students just starting on their academic career 😊
Keep in mind the CHerokee are from the Algonquian areas of the Great Lakes...they only entered the smokies region after 1540, because disease from the Spanish expedition killed off 99.9% of all Indians east of the Mississippi. Souixan and Caddo Indians also moved into this vacuum and none of those Indians had any idea who had built the extensive mound complexes of the Mississippian era in the East.
As someone who also has a background in academia and whose job is research-heavy, I appreciate you for doing the deep research you do - and debunking shoddy research and biased investigative work. Anyone who feels personally attacked in your comments needs to grow up. It's like the saying goes: Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's a conspiracy theory.
Absolutely love your videos and regularly rewatch them. I'm sure you've got a long list of topics, but I'd love to see an episode on Terrence Woods Jr. I recently learned about his disappearance and very little adds up from whats been publicly released. I'd love to see a video on it that has your level of indepth research.
I remember I used to have a copy of Unsolved Disappearances in the Great Smoky Mountains when I was probably 11 or 12. It’s a very interesting read, but it also scared the shit out of me as a kid 😂
Always respect someone who does indepth coverage of any case - keep being you! Hope you got my email before you went to Alaska about Chris from Mob Crew's analysis of the lights video (LE said that they thought it was the garbage truck) reference to Sebastian Rogers as it is very interesting.
One thing not mentioned, is her history of "wanting to be in heaven" or her "wishing to have footsteps that don't touch the ground." Does this indicate suicidal idealiation? What if she planned to go away forever? She was taking valium for depression according to the priest. If so, she likely wouldn't want her family and friends to know or find her, as she was described as an assertive woman. That could explain her change of routine for not signing up to volunteer for the following day. If she were to do it, she would want to go somewhere private. She left the others and laughed so as not to worry them. She could have then chosen to take a route that she knew no one would expect her to go. I bet no one went into the rugged areass "because she didn't like them."
I love to watch your videos BECAUSE of your research and constant questioning! Will say, though, if she was depressed, it doesn't matter how much she loved going camping with her friends, or that logically she could "wait out" a bad situation. Depression could make any of that unbearable.
I know you will probably never see this comment, but I've been following for almost 2 years and I just want to say that theme song is a real banger. It's why I always sit through your credits at the end (and also to help you guys with the dreaded algorithm).
I was going to wait to sub, test a few vids and see how I feel. It was actually the coffee plug that got my sub now though. Anyone that cares enough about their coffee to put in that degree of effort and thought is good in my books.
Great, honest episode. Thank you for this presentation. Also, thank you for the Bigfoot plug and cameo pic. That brightened my day in contrast to this serious reporting.
I really enjoy your docs. But please don’t integrate the ads with transition lines. Often I’m listening intently trying to figure out where a line is going, only to realise that it’s something irrelevant just to introduce an ad. Fair enough you need ads, but please just keep them separate from the documentary narration.
Since she walked this gravel path for decades and knew the area, and all the other small details where she got ahead of her friends on purpose. “She looked back and laughed”because she was doing this on propose to make herself vanish after the bend in the trail. That’s the perfect time to do this magic trick. This is also why she liked this trail cause it had a nice gravel path. She used it to leave also.
I highly recommend restoring the history section. I know attention spans are not always the best for the algorithm but you always made them skippable. I really found it invaluable to feel more rooted in the story and the land it happened on. Just mho
I subbed for the mrballen live stream, instantly forgot you existed and at some point the algorithm offered you up on my auto play. It took me a while ngl, I just wanted the spookiness to be confirmed as spooky. It was a whole process. But somewhere along the line I listened like actually listened. And I listened to the history. And it was good 😏
You should do a video on the disappearance and death of Devin Williams, in 1995 he mysteriously drove his ten ton semi truck through the thick of Tonto National Forest in AZ and was never seen alive again.
18:35 mins..😌 As it pertains to young Sebastián's case.."The MOB Crew" has a couple very,very interesting and compelling videos that's been put out lately 👍 He's looking into the lights in the night..the "Trash Truck" lights 🙄 (I don't usually mention other channels in the comment section,however Chris from The MOB Crew actually brought up "The Lore Lodge" specifically..he commented on how much he agreed with the stance this channel has taken,after their coverage of the "disappearance" of Sebastián). It's far too often I see UA-cam creators bickering with each other,or talking bad about one another's channels..🙄 It's really nice to see when creators give credit to another channel they got content from,or compliment them,or do collaborations..😀 So, Shout Out Chris 😉
Check out Rocket Money for free: RocketMoney.com/lorelodge #rocketmoney #personalfinance Sponsored by Rocket Money
*_Puffins shed the colourful outer parts of_*
*_their bills after the breeding season,_*
*_leaving a smaller and duller beak._*
Hey Aidens! I live near the great smoky mountains and frequent the plethora of trails there, if you want some company during your time there in November, I would be honored to accompany you and help in anyway possible about the area. Much love from East Tennessee 🤘🏽
You guys coming to the Smokies? *In a heavily exaggerated accent* “Well now, that there is close to my neck o’ the woods!” Hey just a heads up. Bear mace has to be the funniest thing I’ve ever heard of people putting their faith in. Get real bear repellent. Make lots of noise. Don’t get eaten by a bear, please.
@@Zeigryo we will be carrying .45 cal bear repellant
Just ignore the idiots. Peer review is important. No one's work is above suspicion.
It is very clear to anyone who has read or written an academic paper that citations are critical to credibility. In fact It is critical to all writings about true events. Aidan is absolutely correct to criticize an author who fails to cite his or her sources. And the fact that he puts his cites in the description proves he practices what he preaches! Again excellent job Aidan.
Where are your sources on the claim that citations are critical for credibility?
@@ninjalokustI back him up on that.
@@Mike-es2yg im sold, where can I buy a tshit?
@@ninjalokustum maybe so we know you aren’t making shit up
Not just that, even in school we learned that if you give a presentation, you need sources. That's like primary school knowledge.
As a former two-pack a day smoker, there is no way, hike or no hike, would I leave home without my cigarettes. I would go nowhere, no matter how short a trip, without them. Also, Valium is absolutely in the category of a tranquilizer. 100%.
It might be why she was hustling to get back to the campground. I had constant the possibility that she was hurrying because she urgently needed to visit the washroom, but if that had been the case she probably would not have looked back and laughed.
100% my mother was prescribed Valium for her anxiety (this is Australia so you can only get Valium from a doctor) and the first time she took one she was in the middle of a sentence then basically keeled over. I was half convinced she was dead for a second there.
ETA: and I think it actually says on the box “sedative medicine”
I'm glad you were able to quit, that sounds like a chain around the leg.
Valium is a Benzodiazepine WHICH HAS sedative properties.
@@gregfranklin730 ye not a tranq its a benzo which is a sedative
Y'all my bad, I put the title card as "Thelma Melton" but it didn't save, so instead it says "Paul Lemaitre" since that was the last episode I used the title for, and I didn't catch the mistake on the preview prior to upload. Please forgive me 😅
Brother
😆😆😆
I declare you pardoned for your crime ⚔️🧎
Mistakes happen and no one is infallible. You're good, my guy.
Bro you're good!! We can't be perfect forever!!
Valium can cause diarrhea. It's possible she had a bathroom emergency and was too embarrassed to say anything. So she walks ahead of the group either to get back to the campsite more quickly or so she could walk off the trail and do her business without anyone noticing. When the group calls out to her she smiles, letting them know she's fine but doesn't want to announce to the whole world that she has to go.
She rounds the bend, decides she can't hold it and goes off the trail far enough that passersby can't see her. On her way back, perhaps a bit confused from the Valium, she realizes she has lost the trail and goes deeper into the woods trying to find her way back. Eventually, she injures herself or experiences a medical event and passes away, somewhere where it's difficult to find a body (perhaps under thick brush).
This definitely sounds reasonably plausible to me.
I was looking for this explanation. ❤
I live in the desert, and hikers go missing. Now you’d think it would be easy to locate these people, given sparse vegetation & lack of steep mountains, and endless bland colored landscape.
Not the case.
Many cases are only solved months/years later by the accidental discovery of human remains.
I have never personally been to this vast national park, but it sounds like she could be off trail, out of sight, passing away from a heart attack.
And no hunter will stumble upon her, since this is prohibited.
Her age, 2 pack a day, a bit overweight, probably not being in good overall health and taking prescription meds.
Death finds us all.
Really appreciate your channel!
A bathroom emergency was the first thing I thought of, having been there myself.
also a hike/walking/exercise can cause you to go as well
the question there though is why didnt the dogs smell it though? i assume feces can be at least loosely tied to an individual, and if it can then the dogs should have at least noticed a weak trail. or maybe its not the type of thing the dogs can associate with an individual. (im not a dog or a dog handler) but even if a bathroom site wasnt tracked, that means there should have been some trail. i think itd be likely that the dogs found something, altho of course its not guaranteed.
When talking about the jewelry people are wearing around 19:00, most southern people that own/wear jewelry that has gold or diamonds will typically wear the exact same things every day, or wear certain things with certain clothes, so I feel like this was just a case of "this lady is known to wear these exact jewelry pieces every day"
Classic MeeMaw behavior
@@goosegirl941 I could tell you right now what my MeeMaw is wearing on her wrist and fingers. It's deff MeeMaw behaviour.
I'm 23 and wear the exact same jewelry everyday lol
That's what I do for normal things. If I'm going out to dinner or something like that I wear extra but just normally I wear the same things. Plus they said rings and a diamond watch band. I wouldn't exactly call that wearing jewelry. Wearling jewelry would have been earrings and bracelets along with the other two. And the rings probably were her engagement and wedding rings.
My mom always wears the same cross necklace, even when she's at work and can't wear her rings
Biochemist/Genetic Genealogist here and yes, scrutinizing other researchers' work is built into the entire system. If your work can't stand up to such inquiry, then it's considered substandard and of poor quality.
Also, a lack of citations/notes makes anything stated highly questionable, and any conclusions unsubstantiated.
It's remarkanly impressive how much this channel does question others' work while also doing their own research. A truly academic and scientific approach!
I hope you see this. Please look into the disappearance of the Jack family from British Columbia. Right by the Highway of Tears. Parents and two children gone. The RCMP and media barely touched the case (the family is indigenous) 🤔
*cough cough*
Please bring awareness to this case and the Highway of Tears
The more people that cover the Jack family case, the better. The RCMP has failed them in every way possible.
(I know ABSTRACT has a really good video about the Jack family disappearance, and helped the case to get a wiki page iirc)
@@Aimez-da-Llama Every single time I hear about the RCMP, it's always bad. Are they just completely and totally incompetent?
Gasp, are you telling me the RCMP botched a case??? Like did they completely ignore requests to search, then when they did search ruined any possible evidence they found, and ended the search early and ignored anyone with evidence or new information? So many cases are completely ruined because of the ineptitude of the RCMP, and that’s sad because I grew up believing they were an elite law enforcement unit. Of course I was relying on tv as a US resident in the fairly Deep South. I hope Aiden decides to cover it!
Yes, please. I’ve heard about this case, and it should be better known.
I hadn’t heard of this family, thank you and lore lodge please do deep dive on them
Yea, a lot of women(especially older women) will wear the exact same jewelry every day. I can tell you every piece my mom would have on, every piece my aunt would have on as well just because I have been seeing them wear it all my life ✌🏽
@@Romie926 i do it out of laziness. 😁
I’ve worn the exact jewelry for decades and everyone who knows me could tell you exactly what I have on
Yeah, the "couple of rings" especially ... that could easily be one engagement ring, one wedding ring. A lot of older women don't feel fully dressed without those. And the diamond watchband ... well, presumably it's attached to a watch, and a lot of older women don't feel dressed without that either.
@@FeliciaSquiressame. Also because I'm broke
I know lots of older ladies who wear their very nice gold/diamond jewelry everyday, no matter the occasion. Some dont even take it off to sleep.
I’m 61 and I wore the same diamond ring for over 25 years until I had to take it off for repairs. It never ever came off unless I was having some kind of a medical procedure and had to take it off Anybody who knows me well can tell you exactly what jewelry I wear every day, always the same.
@@Kerryjotx So you didn't even take it off to shower?
These cases sometimes reminds me of a finnish folklore named ”metsänpeitto” or ”metsänkätkö” which means the forest's secret place for hiding things. Swedes in Finland calls this ”skogen håller” which means the forest keeps. It’s a bit hard to explain what it means, but basically it’s a term in Finnish which refers to the belief that the forest can hide or imprison people or domestic animals such as cows or horses so that they could not escape and would be invisible to people who went in search of them. We have a lot of stories like that. That someone is in a familiar forest, but suddenly they just don’t recognize the forest around them anymore, everything’s a bit off, and nothing looks familiar at all. Some get out of it, but there’s some who never return.
Hmm
I want to say one thing about getting lost in the woods, especially familiar woods. If you hike the trails, and don't go off them, the "Woods" can be very unfamiliar. I got lost many times as a child in my local state park because a tree looked nothing like the trailside version of the tree. I'd end up on a completely different trail a few hundred yards in the other direction. It is much, much easier to get lost in the woods than you would think, and I think a lot of authors of these "missing persons" books and articles who are from areas with much more prominent landmarks (think west coast and rockies) underestimate how easy you can get lost in a flat or fairly flat forest. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm just quicker to get lost, but I feel like way too many people underestimate how easy it is to get lost.
Appalachia is old and dense, and there's no bigger killer than overconfidence.
Yes....
I became disoriented and lost just once. It was an area I had been in before. Possibly the angle of the sun provided an unusual look causing the disorientation. Only was for a short time, say 20 minutes, but you start to sweat it.
My sister and I walked into the woods to take pictures once. I thought we were coming the right way back but I took her advice and we went a diff way. Before we knew it we were on trials that led to nowhere, just dense trees and had to turn around. Didn't even know which direction we had come from by that point. Needless to say we were lost for around 13 hours on an oilfield and the property owner found us on the main trail we kept going back to, super scary stuff.
It's so incredibly likely and most plausible that she never left those woods. She slipped and fell somewhere no one could see her. You hear all the time about people being found just blocks or miles from their home even though everyone swore they looked there. They just didn't see her body.
I got lost in my nearby state park back in the late 70s at age 20 or 21. I hiked this 3 mile trail once a month since age 16. A storm had knocked down some trees over the trail. I went around and lost pathway. I continued to walk for a couple of hours until i crossed a different trail that lead back to my car. A 90 minute hike became 3 hours.
This shows just how easy it can happen
You might even say it was a Three Hour Tour. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I'll take myself to a desert island and contemplate how scary getting lost can be
30:30 this is the truest form of journalism. SOURCES MATTER!!! Your dedication to finding credible sources is the reason I admire this channel so damn much.
When he first talks about her walking faster and disappearing around a bend and they didn't see her, my brain immediately went "oh she had to poop and dipped off the trail"
Like I knew that this was going to be a disappearance, but idk why my brain was like "that's how you act when you gotta GO" ya know?
I mean… Valium does cause diarrhea… you might be onto something there
It does make sense...
That’s exactly what I thought too
Doesn't really explain how she would've gotten so far that the dogs wouldn't find any sign of her, though. Or why she didn't leave tracks.
@@Galamoth06 yeah I thought I made it clear in my comment but I'm not suggesting that bathroom needs explains how she disappeared. I just think it explains the behavior her friends said they saw. The walking faster to get ahead and being cheeky about it could be her trying to not get embarrassed about dipping into the woods for some privacy. What happened after that, I have no idea.
Honestly, your academic / research integrity and focus on the reliability of sources and viewing things objectively are the biggest reasons I love your channel. Thank you for all your hard work!
I just got back tonight after 6 days and 26 miles of hiking in the Smokies. I *finally* got to see a bear in the distance and a bonus elk on the side of the road. The timing of this video is perfect!
We were taught in middle school and high school not to trust anything without sources. It's dangerous to just assume things, especially in cases like this. I love that you point that out.
If she started walking fast enough to get ahead of her hiking buddies, then I don't think the tranquilizer, assuming she had taken it, was affecting her reaction time.
Yeah, a woman zooming ahead of her friends and laughing does not sound like she's on tranqs. That's more Pervitin behavior
Actually, given all of her specific conditions and the metabolic implications of such, a low dose definitely would have enabled her to function better and go faster.
The first time they gave me one in the ER for the same conditions, all I could think was "Y'alls bodies work this way ALL the time?"
They hadnt even been able to take my blood pressure because my arm would turn black every time the cuff engaged.
But after that valium my blood pressure was perfect.
I think the only way she wouldnt have been able to carry on is if the meds wore off.
@@Holy.HannaHthis is a huge thing people don't consider too! Lots of us who need meds only function while on the meds (which is the point of taking them) many drugs only screw with you if you are taking them recreationally, not being properly medicated.
There's a couple explanations, that nobody thought of.
1.Foul play, by her friends on the trail. Maybe, she was messing around with one, or both of their husbands. Or, they with her's. Or, they didn't like her for some other reason.
2.Foul play by her husband, as in she did make it off the trail, but he said she didn't. Maybe, they were having marital problems.
Nobody would've thought to look at these things, because they exclusively treating it as a lost person. Which is weird, because it's like saying someone got lost walking on the street they live on. It wasn't a campground to her, she lived there.
Definitely possible, the cops would have to dig into all these possibilities.
I think most of these are foul play. Even more so when it's a group of people.
its usually considered bad form to go after friends or family without any reason, basis, or evidence.
Bruh, "her's" isn't a word. 😂😂😂 It's just "hers". English really isn't that hard. 😂😂😂
She lived there, but she had likely rarely experienced it off the trail. And if she left the trail… hmm. But who knows, anything is possible
I greatly appreciate all the research, fact-checking, and respect you put into every case
I only found your channel about a week ago and have been binging all your videos ever since. It’s an amazing breath of fresh air to listen to historical, informational, and mysterious content during my 10+ hour shifts rather than the same music over and over again. I especially love the history segments. You’ve opened my brain to a lot and have deepened my philosophical thinking about life and history. I’m grateful to have found your channel please keep it up 🙌
I wear the same jewelry every day. My Fitbit watch, I have gold hoops that I rarely remove from my ears. I wear my college class ring and a wedding band. I don't normally wear a necklace. My sisters could tell you exactly what jewelry I wear. My grandmother always wore an enamel feather pin on her dress, shirt or jacket depending on the weather. It was a gift from my grandfather.
Don’t need to apologize for research, most research involves scrutinizing all ideologies. Without looking at all conclusions or speculations, you can’t come to any logical outcome. Keep up the good work it’s refreshing to see and hear.
Xanax is fast acting, and metabolized MUCH faster than Valium… Valium (diazepam) has an extremely long half life, kicks in slower and lasts longer in the body, potentially causing impairment long after the initial effects wear off…. I work in the medical field lol. Just a minor correction no big deal ! This channel is SO GREAT!!!
And, also, in the 1970's and 1980's Valium was prescribed freely for a variety of questionable reasons.
I noticed that as well. I don't work in the medical field but I used to be on those and researched it quite a bit. They were hell to get off. Literally hell would be nicer. 😂
@@badmanskill1112 IMO the idea of hell being a place of pain, torment & consternation for our sins is just canonically incorrect. Considering the Devil is it's ruler, he would likely try to make a place comparable to heaven while allowing those in his domain to have autonomy, a large degree of free will and freedom to do whatever they'd like.
@@charlierichardson3169 So... closer to what it's like on earth? Maybe this is hell then?
@@badmanskill1112😭😭😭
the fact that people constantly accuse you of "not being supportive" of others when you criticize people's research is wild to me
have these people never had to write a paper for school before?
fact-checking and verifying sources' credibility is just part of the process
those same people that want you to "be supportive" of someone who is misreporting facts (or things that are supposed to be facts) are indirectly saying that they are in favor of the massive spread of misinformation that is a huge problem in today's world
if I'm to believe someone's account of an event, I'm going to fact-check and cross reference it with other works
that's just how research works
exactly why literally ALL of my papers in ALL of my college classes (obviously not literature classes tho) require peer-reviewed sources!!
I had Valium when I got LASIK, and it messed me up lol. I was watching TV, I could acknowledge the passing of time, but I swear it had only been 5 minutes when in reality it was well over an hour.
I used to camp all over the Deep Creek area in the late 70's, early 80's. I remember this story. Couple of observations: first, animal predation is the least crazy explanation, but I can tell you that after 8+ years of camping and hiking the Deep Creek area...nope. I never saw a bear, heard of a bear being seen. No mountain lions, bobcats...nothing. Mainly because that area is saturated (and was back then) with "tourists" - people, making noise, pets barking. I quit going up there because of the over saturation of people...and it was that way in 1981. I just cannot accept the theory of animal attack...although it is (as I said above) the least crazy explanation. Great episode!
Yeah, and I feel that the presence of dangerous animals there would warrant some additional safety measures on the part of the park... not that it’s impossible for it to happen but it’s… hmm.
Living in NC I can say honestly and with confidence this state doesn't know foul play from fowl play.
@@poolhalljunkie9 I totally agree.
drives me up the wall every time 😭
I just caught up on a handful of recent videos and now I’m actually on time for a premier. Yesss.
Wishing you well. Thanks for the hard work, every video is quality stuff.
Chain smoking out of shape 30 year old Kansan here. I throw 200lbs of dog food over my shoulder and march 50 yards without much issue on a weekly basis. A lot of rural people are ridiculously strong even when we're unhealthy and aging. Never underestimate the human animal. As a species we are the most dangerous predators on the planet.
I was legit gonna say the same, being in "bad health" doesn't mean weak or lacking muscle tone. My mum at 50 (though 5foot 5inches, and 170lbs) was a beast (not a smoker mind you).
Myself at 32, smoking for 20 years (I know, bad) I am smaller than my mum and I could still defend myself against someone twice my size, even with asthma and a bad back. Rural people just get things done regardless.
"30 year old, 200lbs ... over my shoulder, march 50 yards without much issue on a weekly basis."
Sorry to say but that is quite a mediocre performance in my world.
The question is, can you run/jog* 5-7 miles. Uphill and downhill. On a dirt road. On a path. In the forest. Without any pauses, of course.
*always one foot off the ground
@@dansihvonen8218 god no. But that's the point; I'm a beast compared to many and still there are many who are beasts compared to me.
Y'all get me through the end of every Friday at work.
Thank you for the quality and consistency of the work you produce!
You from N.B. ?
Same!! We’re allowed to wear headphones during the last hour of our shift so I’ve been plowing my way through the entire missing 411 playlist 💀💀
@@tokitriplesixxx9953 From Miramichi/Moncton!
@@tokitriplesixxx9953 Yessir! From Moncton/Miramichi living in Austin TX now
Major respect for actually following up on the constructive criticisms 👊🏻
I think it's fair enough to call out people spreading misinformation (whether they're doing it maliciously or accidentally).
Is no one gonna talk about how 170-190 for someone who is 5'10"-5'11" is not even close to overweight. Like that's not even really an unhealthy weight. Unless people got her weight wrong, I don't think she should be considered unhealthy because of her weight
A 5'10 180 lbs female has a BMI of 25.8, which is overweight.
@ruuvuu bmi is not a metric of health, it was created by a mathematician not a nutritionist or anyone who would actually be credible
Definitely overweight for an older female, unless she's a bodybuilder...
I agree. In my prime, I was 6’1” and 180 and was quite thin.
this confused me during the episode. people kept referring to her as overweight, but if you look up a picture of a 5’10” 180lbs female, they look like your average day-to-day female. yes this would technically still be overweight, but goodness they made it sound like she was obese. i know much bigger people (like over 100lbs bigger) who avidly hike without much issue. the smoking 2 packs a day would definitely impact her ability to hike but her weight? i don’t think so
Yay, a new one!!!!!
I've recently begun beinge watching trying to hide in two things I adore, mystery and history. Mom's cancer is back with not a good out look so this week, you have helped me hide from my 24hr hell these days!! Ty and keep em coming plz!!!!!❤💔
Valium was prescribed pretty freely back then, especially for women. A lot of doctors prescribed it for "Frequent Flyers," patients who came to the doctor regularly for minor or non-existent ailments. My mother was prescribed Valium for sleep. It was sort of a panacea when doctors couldn't pinpoint what was wrong with the patient.
I always say my mom was a pill head before being a pill head was a thing. She had a doctor in KY and TN. Valium and Percocets. Yes doctors prescribed it like candy in the 70s and 80s
Or because they didn’t take their patient seriously.
loved the episode, though i have one gripe. i understand 5’10” 180lbs would have been considered bigger back then at the time of the case, but at some point in the episode you pointed out her weight as being a reason she probably wouldn’t be able to do too much on the trail. her weight shouldn’t have (in my opinion) significantly impacted her ability to hike in the more difficult areas. yes, she would be considered overweight even today, but just barely. the anecdotes in this video made it sound like she was obese, but if you look up a picture of a 5’10” 180lbs woman, they look pretty average size. her smoking habit would’ve kicked her butt, but i doubt her weight would.
If I said it was her weight, that was not my intention. I was meaning to refer to the hypertension and smoking.
@@TheLoreLodge i understand now! thank you!
average size doesn’t mean not overweight
I could live like Polly. I Know our east coast mountains are short compared to the west but no one can understate the beauty of the Smokies.
It’s so disheartening that people give you a hard time for pointing out where others’ work is shoddy. That’s pretty basic if you care about, you know, the truth? Being ethical? Having principles? Sigh.
Ethics and principles are "White supremacy" !!!
People are so fickle or they just follow the herd. There was a recent incident where a youtuber got called out for making up things. Literally manufacturing evidence, which I had called her out in her comments section many times. Cuz she was making stuff up, giving her credentials as to how she knows certain things and was getting debunked on the regular, obsessed with the subject. People would talk about her regularly on other UA-cam channel comments. So 2 tubers had a show & called her out. They said that they tried talking to her to no avail& they've had discussions with each other about how she's making the community look bad because people will judge the entire community (which they do). So they have this show & a few people start blaming them for "doing it like they did it". I don't know how else you would do it if you've had talks. So everybody jumps on the bandwagon blaming the informers for the show & their later apology & not the offender. And now the offender is emboldened & calling them out. Go figure!!! Aidan is great tho!😊
Their are types of people out there that get their feelings hurt if you are critical of something they like or believe. They arent able to separate themselves from it.
I completely understand why you criticize authors like Paulides and Baldwin. It's absolutely necessary to cite sources and be objective when covering cases like this. Keep up the great work 💯
Paulides
@@MakerInMotion thank you
Wow, a bit of critical thinking, research & logic. Now I know why I watch your show. Btw, I am 70 yrs old.
lol my dad is super paranoid about safety, so he forced us to put something on the bottom of all of the pairs of shoes we bring while camping and stamp it on a piece of paper that is kept at the campsite in case we go missing.
I'm mostly a wallflower on this channel but Adian, you have every right as a researcher yourself to point out the short comings and mistakes of others that have made these kinda claims. The thing I love most about this channel is just how passionate and in depth y'all are at learning everything you can about the people/places & their history that you deliver to us here. I'm a huge proponent of "knowledge is power" and when you're telling a story about real people that experienced real things, I'd argue it is incredibly important to have all of the facts CORRECT. So thank you for always putting forth that extra effort. It is not unnoticed nor unappreciated and 💩on anyone who complains about what y'all create for us!
Hey from Ireland 🇮🇪
Excellent channel & fascinating content, especially missing 411
Keep up the great work
How's things down South? I'm up near Belfast.
@@Rick_ClelandBelfast here too, West. Just living off the Glen Road. Eire go Bragh.
I grew up camping in the Smokies, in the early 80's with my family. I remember always seeing missing posters at the rest areas and campgrounds. It was just a fact of life that people went missing there. I've never even thought about it as weird until now.
I rarely comment on videos, but I stopped what I was doing to comment on this one because you said something like, feedback is meant to make us better.
Credibility issues should be brought up when applicable. I trust your work because you do question commonly used sources and you freely admit when you are wrong. It is part of the type of research you do.
I am 5’ 9”, weigh around 170, am 50 years old, smoked at least a pack a day since high school, have joint problems and arthritis issues… I am not in any position to run off a start a new life, to run out of cigarettes, walk briskly ahead for seventy five yards… she may have felt uninhibited enough to make a bad decision when put there. Valium decreases pain (I’ve had enough of it), and when taken for a period of time, is always “flying” and unaware in that state. That being said, I wonder if there was anyone that she had turned down for a membership at the campground? Exclusion could make someone angry, who really wanted a spot. Just a thought.
I really miss getting that native history at the beginning of your videos! I know we’re re-visiting stuff, but… that’s been one of my favorite parts!
Wooo first time catching a premier!
Just turned my grandad onto your content he was super interested, thanks for all you do. Godspeed and keep it up fellas!
I got lost in the trails behind my grandmothers cabin in Bryson City and I eventually found the road and found my way back. I had the dog with me and let me tell you, he was no Lassie! 😂 It is ez to get lost. Also, we lived close to deep creek. Grandmas road was the back way into Deep Creek. This story is very close to a place I once called him for a chapter of my life. Wow.
I'm glad this case resurfaced, especially on this channel where you know the research is top notch.
No single explanation really sits well with this woman, nothing sounds plausible enough to be true, it's crazy.
What I did hear somewhere is she was known to be very reluctant to ever use a phone, which makes it all the more intriguing
why she suddenly does the day before she vanished..
Those calls could have everything to do with it or absolutely nothing, how distinctly frustrating we'll never know which.
The most likely explanation is the same as in the Tom Messick case: she went down into a well-hidden and possibly water-filled mine, well, or crevice.
To be fair, A relative being fairly certain that a woman was wearing specific items of jewlery and a specific watch, despite not seeing her for weeks or even months was not at all unreasonable for that time period. As a child of the 60s, I can assure you that it was entirely normal for a woman to wear the exact same few items of jewelry every day for decades. They would perhaps wear additional pieces for special occasions, but those few signature pieces were a constant part of their wardrobes.
Wearing a favorite watch for decades was entirely normal for men, women, and even children. Everyone old enough to tell time wore a wristwatch at all times, If they were waterproof, we usually even wore them into the shower. It was almost more unthinkable then to leave home without your watch than it is today to be without your phone. Even us wealthy folks seldom changed them. Generally, the only time we did was when we got a new one, which then entirely replaced the previous one.
The thing about scrutinizing other researchers is the truth freaking matters. The whole point of all of this, I hope, for all these researchers is to figure out what really happened to these people. Not to tell a likely story. Not to have a few theories, but what ACTUALLY happened. And to do that we need true facts. We MUST examine all the facts presented to us in these cases for accuracy if we ever hope to put these missing folks to rest by finding answers. I very much appreciate the journalistic integrity of the boys at the lodge and even though I disagree with their ideas or conclusions in some cases I continue to return to their coverage because at the very least I trust their facts.
Agreed! And researching any over looked clues and pieces to puzzles is a fundamental purpose of The Lore Lodge.
100%. I just told my husband that these lovely gentlemen have the most detailed information of any other UA-camrs I’ve seen. And I want every single detail even if it may seem insignificant. I’m not usually interested in Missing 411 but I am if it’s covered by The Lodge. Wow, I sound like a buttkisser but I’m actually highly finicky about who I listen to/watch.
You do so much work and it comes off very clear in your videos and content just how passionate you guys are about accuracy and factual information. That's why I enjoy your channel so much. Just thought you should know that all of the work you guys put in is definitely not going to waste or not being appreciated because so many of us actually trust your thoughts and theories because of this. You don't just go....huh, bigfoot. You start at a place of realism and plausibility, and it just makes your coverages so much better than most other channels.
I really love your channel, which is why I feel the need to throw in my two cents here. The way you've explained valium and its' effects here are not very accurate and I think may be misleading for some people. Depending on the person's history of use of benzos, their biological/physiological response (which is *extremely* specific to every individual when it comes to psychiatric medications and benzodiazepines are particularly tricky ones), their environment, the exact intended use (panic disorder, generalized anxiety, specific phobias or a particular event/procedure that the medication has been given for, any comorbid mental illness issues, their metabolism, the dose, the environment in which the meds are taken, and a ton of other factors that it would take me ages to list, it's nearly impossible to determine how an individual will respond to a medication like valium and nowhere near possible without more info. I'm not sure if you may have had dosage and use history that you didn't include for time that allowed for more educated guesses but the anecdote of having it before your dental procedure may further mislead viewers unless you know this individual's specific factors around the use of this drug.
It absolutely could be exactly as you described. It could be so so so different. It can certainly make someone loopy. It also is likely to reduce their inhibitions, cause anterograde amnesia, and if they consume any alcohol or other drugs at the same time serious interactions may occur. It's just so much more complicated than the way this video describes it and I totally know you guys cant break down into the neuroscience of it all to the extent that would allow people to truly understand but I do think the way it's described here is problematic at best. Obviously it's totally your video and channel and I respect that, but as someone with a pretty in-depth understanding of these medications, psychology/psychiatry, etc. but who is by no means a doctor or psychiatrist--I think the explanation given may mislead those with little to no experience in the area and I can see this popping up in comments already.
I hope this portion may be reconsidered, perhaps the removal of the personal anecdote and a more general description of the drug/intended uses/most common side effects that is still brief but not so definitive about things like "it won't make you loopy" and including the importance of the effects on inhibition, memory, and other executive cognitive functions while on the drug just using a simple description maybe from somewhere like WebMD would be the most appropriate way to keep it simple without misrepresenting the advantages and disadvantages of taking such a drug.
I say all of this with respect and only because I believe you guys really do strive for accuracy and to provide the viewers factual information in these stories, obviously you are hella knowledgeable about a lot of things--no one expects you to be perfect or to have the highest level of expertise on every single aspect mentioned in one of your many videos, so I hope this doesn't sound rude or judgemental, I just wanted to offer some constructive feedback with regard to this specific small but potentially important fact of the case (or potentially not important at all and I'm being a pain in the butt for no reason--I'm certainly not an expert in missing persons cases, that's for sure!)
Again, I say all of this in good faith. I'm new here but I have been binging your videos and I'm a big fan so far. I hope maybe this is helpful in some way and doesn't come off as me being a smartass. Thanks for all the great content!
No one is going to read this novel haha
@@SGDaley Fair but if anyone does I'm cool with having a discussion about it! Just something I thought was worth some extra attention since there are many ways this may have affected what happened--or maybe it is completely irrelevant. I'm ok with that! Might be worth considering more deeply. Human behaviour is flat out weird on a good day, start adding substances and potential emotional stressors... well... things can get real weird real fast!
😳 Good god man…
No clue why I got notified about this video AFTER I was recommended the podcast talking about it. But glad I eventually got it!
Same. I watched them backwards but I don’t mind at all.
Loved your little jab at the Proudfoots lol.
As a woman in my 50’s I’m convinced this was related to a SEVERE need to go to the bathroom. When you have to go THAT bad, you can’t even think straight. I think she got off trail to go to the bathroom and got lost. Looking at the topography of the trail, I think she may have rolled down into the creek. Given the depth and waterfalls, she was probably further injured in the process.
Keep being critical. This is why i watch.
TL;DR= This topic is a pet peve of mine. People associate criticism of ideas with criticizing character (google Adam Grant's work). I live by the rule, "I don't care that I'm right, I care that I eventually get it right". That by definition, makes space for me to have some of things is say to be shredded from time to time. That's also the same framework as science. I'm a data scientist, so my craft is literally about making the probability of being wrong as small as possible. Lol.
wow this is a odd case. I live on the Swain County side of the Cherokee Reservation. 15 minutes away from Deep Creek. I asked my aunt about this and she remembers this case because of how for a while people around here just stopped going on trails anywhere near Deep Creek. It's super cool that you guys are coming down here. If you need any old timers perspective on this case from what they can recall I could definitely set up some interviews for you.
That would actually be really helpful, could you shoot an email over to thornbury@redactedmediapa.com? Tell him you mentioned interviews to Mattis.
I wonder if she was having a bathroom emergency, felt embarrassed to say it, and decided to book it ahead of everyone so she could go a bit into the woods. Maybe she had a stroke or aneurysm due to her various health issues, got confused, and wondered off. Then passed away. Idk, just something that popped into my head.
As a person who is studying paleontology, paleoanthropolgy, and has some heavy research into missing persons cases.
Not citing resources or sources is one of the most genuine infuriating things i will sometimes come across
I don't have any great ideas about this case but I do have a couple random thoughts. Anyone who has spent any time in the woods knows that when you see a bear, DON'T RUN! You back away, try to look big, and yell. Polly spent so much time there, she'd know that. Same thing for cougars. Smokers always keep their cigs on them, even if she didn't plan on smoking during the hike. I know that many women in that age category wear the same jewelry every day, but when camping? It seems so odd to me, especially the diamond watch. I've hiked with various groups my whole life. When someone has to pee, it's common to let the others know that you're going to "step off the trail for a minute." I've always had the habit of asking someone to stay on the trail where I depart from it to let me know if other hikers are approaching. My code word with my husband for this is "clock radio." Silly and I don't even remember how that started. If she was disappearing intentionally, there would have been countless other and easier ways to do it.
32:00 thank you for doing exactly what needs to be done, thinking about your sources critically and discussing them honestly.
I'm with you. I've got nothing. This makes absolutely no sense. Best I can figure is that she literally stepped out of existence, fell off the train and somehow got missed in someplace inaccessible nearby, or intentionally vanished. The problem is the latter two have a lot of evidence against them. This is absolutely (*Jack Sparrow Hands with X-Files Music*)
I could tell you right now with absolute certainty what jewelry my grandmother is wearing and what jewelry my other grandma had on the day she died 18 years ago. I also wear the same jewelry every day unless it’s m dressing up for something and wear costume jewelry to match an outfit. Most women over around let’s say the age of 30 have a few “good” pieces of jewelry that are usually sentimental that they wear every day. Probably everyone in my family could tell you if you don’t find my wedding ring, my diamond earrings, and my grandmother’s necklace in my things if I go missing then I had them on whether they saw me that day or not.
Really enjoy this channel
I really like your deeper dives into these cases and your point about looking critically at the research. It is well taken- the work someone does should speak for itself. If it’s solid, and well researched, there will be fewer mistakes to find.
The content keeps getting better but the ones from years past still hold up.
Great comment/explanation of peer review! As an academic and teacher I often find myself explaining this to students just starting on their academic career 😊
My day just got a thousand times better.
That was a very smooth and natural transition to the sponsor, I gotta say I was low-key impressed
Keep in mind the CHerokee are from the Algonquian areas of the Great Lakes...they only entered the smokies region after 1540, because disease from the Spanish expedition killed off 99.9% of all Indians east of the Mississippi. Souixan and Caddo Indians also moved into this vacuum and none of those Indians had any idea who had built the extensive mound complexes of the Mississippian era in the East.
As someone who also has a background in academia and whose job is research-heavy, I appreciate you for doing the deep research you do - and debunking shoddy research and biased investigative work. Anyone who feels personally attacked in your comments needs to grow up. It's like the saying goes: Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's a conspiracy theory.
One my favourite things you lads do is actually not take others research at face value and go and do your own.
Absolutely love your videos and regularly rewatch them. I'm sure you've got a long list of topics, but I'd love to see an episode on Terrence Woods Jr. I recently learned about his disappearance and very little adds up from whats been publicly released. I'd love to see a video on it that has your level of indepth research.
lets go boys first time ever on time for a stream that isnt about to end
Same 😂
@@SadieMage
Excellent content! Glad the algorithm popped your channel up. Well done!
I remember I used to have a copy of Unsolved Disappearances in the Great Smoky Mountains when I was probably 11 or 12. It’s a very interesting read, but it also scared the shit out of me as a kid 😂
Thank you 🙏🏼 for doing what you do. I know many appreciate it!
Always respect someone who does indepth coverage of any case - keep being you! Hope you got my email before you went to Alaska about Chris from Mob Crew's analysis of the lights video (LE said that they thought it was the garbage truck) reference to Sebastian Rogers as it is very interesting.
One thing not mentioned, is her history of "wanting to be in heaven" or her "wishing to have footsteps that don't touch the ground."
Does this indicate suicidal idealiation? What if she planned to go away forever? She was taking valium for depression according to the priest.
If so, she likely wouldn't want her family and friends to know or find her, as she was described as an assertive woman. That could explain her change of routine for not signing up to volunteer for the following day.
If she were to do it, she would want to go somewhere private. She left the others and laughed so as not to worry them. She could have then chosen to take a route that she knew no one would expect her to go. I bet no one went into the rugged areass "because she didn't like them."
Valium is actually slower acting then Xanax and has a longer half life
I love to watch your videos BECAUSE of your research and constant questioning!
Will say, though, if she was depressed, it doesn't matter how much she loved going camping with her friends, or that logically she could "wait out" a bad situation. Depression could make any of that unbearable.
New Lodge episode❤!!! Wooo!
I know you will probably never see this comment, but I've been following for almost 2 years and I just want to say that theme song is a real banger. It's why I always sit through your credits at the end (and also to help you guys with the dreaded algorithm).
I was going to wait to sub, test a few vids and see how I feel. It was actually the coffee plug that got my sub now though. Anyone that cares enough about their coffee to put in that degree of effort and thought is good in my books.
Great, honest episode. Thank you for this presentation. Also, thank you for the Bigfoot plug and cameo pic. That brightened my day in contrast to this serious reporting.
"gonna talk about some creepy cryptid shit soon and less tru-crime disappearances"
the thing I subscribed to you for :)
When egos get involved, facts get distorted. Keep up your good work.
I really enjoy your docs. But please don’t integrate the ads with transition lines. Often I’m listening intently trying to figure out where a line is going, only to realise that it’s something irrelevant just to introduce an ad. Fair enough you need ads, but please just keep them separate from the documentary narration.
Since she walked this gravel path for decades and knew the area, and all the other small details where she got ahead of her friends on purpose. “She looked back and laughed”because she was doing this on propose to make herself vanish after the bend in the trail. That’s the perfect time to do this magic trick. This is also why she liked this trail cause it had a nice gravel path. She used it to leave also.
I highly recommend restoring the history section. I know attention spans are not always the best for the algorithm but you always made them skippable. I really found it invaluable to feel more rooted in the story and the land it happened on. Just mho
I subbed for the mrballen live stream, instantly forgot you existed and at some point the algorithm offered you up on my auto play. It took me a while ngl, I just wanted the spookiness to be confirmed as spooky. It was a whole process. But somewhere along the line I listened like actually listened. And I listened to the history. And it was good 😏
You should do a video on the disappearance and death of Devin Williams, in 1995 he mysteriously drove his ten ton semi truck through the thick of Tonto National Forest in AZ and was never seen alive again.
18:35 mins..😌 As it pertains to young Sebastián's case.."The MOB Crew" has a couple very,very interesting and compelling videos that's been put out lately 👍
He's looking into the lights in the night..the "Trash Truck" lights 🙄
(I don't usually mention other channels in the comment section,however Chris from The MOB Crew actually brought up "The Lore Lodge" specifically..he commented on how much he agreed with the stance this channel has taken,after their coverage of the "disappearance" of Sebastián).
It's far too often I see UA-cam creators bickering with each other,or talking bad about one another's channels..🙄
It's really nice to see when creators give credit to another channel they got content from,or compliment them,or do collaborations..😀
So, Shout Out Chris 😉