Start speaking a new language in 3 weeks with Babbel 🎉. Get up to 60% OFF your subscription ➡Here: go.babbel.com/t?bsc=usa-influ-eg-dt-1m&btp=default&UA-cam&Influencer..May-2024..USA-TATAM..1200m60-yt-thelorelodge-may-2024
@TheLoreLodge Puyallup is pronounced "Pew-AL-up," with the emphasis on "AL" and with "AL" being pronounced like "Al Sharpton" ... Dont ask me why i chose his name specifically to explain it, your guess is as good as mine lmao. And thank you for doing a video about M411 in my hometown-ish! Reppin Tacoma 253 baybee :D
nah dude your hate for david is ruining your channel especially since hes never claimed to know what the phenomenon is your baseless knit picking attack (cause its definitely not appropriate criticism) on a fellow researcher is shamefull used to like your channel for well done thought out research but your covering on missing 411 just aint it bro
@@thesasquatch303so peer reviewing and bringing light to evidence that didn’t exist prior when it was published. That’s hate. Calling out misinformation or misunderstandings isn’t hate. It’s correcting information. Tell me you don’t watch his videos without telling me.
Hey aiden the advice that your German Teacher gave you is correct... If you would ask the place you're at "könnte ich die Rechnung haben" before you payed they would just Look at your like a weirdo because getting the "Rechnung" needs to happen after paying. But generally speaking i would advice to never ask for the "Rechnung" because giving out "Rechnungen" makes it impossible for them to "optimize" on the amount of Taxes. Taxation is theft.
Dear Aidan, you need to look into the disappearances on Mount Nyangani Mountain in Zimbabwe. Tons of people disappear on that mountain and no one knows why. It's such a huge problem, that the GOVERNMENT installed cameras (!) on the mountain and if you want to hike there you need 1. A guide and 2. your mobile phone needs to be fully charged. And yet people still go missing and the most baffling thing is that this should be impossible because the mountain is a PLATEAU where people can be seen easily. The circumstances in which people disappear are typically missing 411 cases. Not long ago 2 boys disappeared out of a group (!) and were found dead in shallow water and the place where they were found had been searched before. Hell, a whole delegation from India disappeared there for days and when they were found they didn't even know that they were missing for such a long time. They thought it was just a few hours. The shamans living around the mountain are saying that it's a holy place and warn travelers that they need to follow certain rules or otherwise they will disappear. 2 of these rules are: 1. Don't wear red or bright clothes and 2. if you see something that's really strange/unusual: Pretend you didn't see it and walk away - never ever go investigate or you disappear. This isn't just some African shamans saying this, the same rules are found all around the world like Asia, Europe and in the US like the Appalachians. That these rules exist all over the world is not a coincidence. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason why so many people disappear is that they didn't know about rule number 2 I just mentioned.Nyangani
If you hear your name being called, another human in the distance crying out for help, or see anything strange or unusual happen and you react to it, you’re in big trouble. Also, don’t let them know your name.
@@AverageAlien Yeah 3 whistleblowers turning up dead ,but let's still give the war criminals and baby killers an incredible benefit of the doubt You sound like a moral cripple GFU Repeatedly Infinitum
I live near the bottom of Mt Rainier in Ashford. My family has lived here since the 80s. It's a scenic and beautiful area, and depending on who you ask up here you get one of three awnsers: People who have legit seen things, people spinning a yarn just because it's funny to them, and people who look at you like a you ate one too many questionable fungi. My aunts have stories, my mom has stories, my granddad has stories although he will never explain a thing. This place truly is different.
We have bears, cougars, deer, elk and lots of other large wildlife. Ive been camping and hunting these woods since I was 5 and I don’t think we have anything supernatural. There is just a special feeling of vulnerability in our woods because of how thick they are, yet I imagine that feeling persists in like areas worldwide.
Grew up here, can agree, it's definitely amazing and weird. One of my fave bits of local folklore is about the Douglas firs that are the ubiquitous mainstays of the temperate rainforests here and why their cones look the way they do with trident bracts projecting from between the scales. Story goes there was a forest fire and the mice could not outrun the flames so they cried out to the trees "oh great firs, please shelter us!" and the firs agreed and opened up their cones for the mice to hide in, and that's why to this day there's little bracts sticking out that look like a mouse's butt with the tail and hindlegs as they jumped inside to hide.
All, try the salmonberries, they won't hurt you, just try them, I promise, no, I'm not gonna tell you what it tastes like before you do, just try the things. First time tasting face is hilarious, the confusion that "raspberry but it's orange" doesn't taste like you expect is fucking hilarious.
@TheLoreLodge Puyallup is pronounced "Pew-AL-up," with the emphasis on "AL" and with "AL" being pronounced like "Al Sharpton" ... Dont ask me why i chose his name specifically to explain it, your guess is as good as mine lmao. And thank you for doing a video about M411 in my hometown-ish! Reppin Tacoma 253 baybee :D
@@FranklyRanunculushonestly I was thinking of editing that pronunciation as a 2nd version because for me personally the way I pronounce it depends entirely on the sentence I'm using it in, but they're so similar I figured 'meh.'
I will pound the table for this until the day i die. You are better than Paulides. You have this uncanny gift for mysterious tragedies that nobody on any platform has. This premiere Lore Lodge content. Please keep these coming! The side quests are great, but every Friday ive been praying for the bread and butter. BOOOOOMMMM. I live in Reading PA. Im 25 minutes away from you! Do it for the mother land!!!
I don't believe Paulides is ill-intentioned, I just think he's gotten away with more or less 'lazy' reporting for years. Now that the 411 phenomenon has gotten the attention of hard-working, deep-digging content producers, he's getting shown up, and details he either missed or left out are getting found.
@coderexe30 I think he's just gone to far down the rabbit hole. I'm a believer. I believe in UFOs, Bigfoot, and the paranormal. But not everything is paranormal. He conviently leaves out information that would lend credibility to a plausible explanation to make everything paranormal. UFOs and Bigfoot have been in texts and cultures since the dawn of time really. So it's not far fetched to be a believer. Paulides just cares more about everything being his work so he makes all the money from it than he does actually solving the cases and the people involved. He's the most selfish guy I support. And his UA-cam channel reflects it.
excitedly been waiting for this today. I moved here about two years ago and been learning a lot about the Indigenous culture in the shadow of the beautiful Tahoma. Puyallup is pronounced "Pew-wall-up". I love your Indigenous history lessons in these, I've learned a lot about different tribes through your videos. Especially love seeing how they mash up. Theres a LOT of tribes here, some federally recognized some not. Also potlach ceremonies here traditionally and historically occur around what the US celebrates as thanksgiving. it was cool to learn some societies had a positive tradition during that time before we came along
As a pacific northwest resident, for the final parts about Sasquatch. It really wouldn't surprise me as those forests hide secrets I can't comprehend. (Also full of mountain lions and now invasive timber wolves because out of all wolves they had to pick the most aggressive for yellowstone repopulation)
I love your history segments, they are so well researched! It is clear you love history and it differentiates your channel different from other channels. Also, this may have been mentioned in the original video on Sasquatch, but Agassiz is pronounced “ Aga-see”. Not sure why the z is silent.
I just moved here from Scottsdale last week. It's just so beautiful here. Feels surreal coming from living my entire adult life in the Phoenix metro area. I've fallen in love already and can't wait to spend the next few years checking off my list of places to explore here. What an awesome place!
Pew-ahl-luhp Too-lay-lip Yak-ih-muh Also, most Coast Salish teachings, medicine, tradition, spirituality are passed down through families with stories & ceremony and not shared with outsiders regularly...it was dangerous to do so back in the day. Also sacred, to be taken seriously. Probably why it's often called an enigma & perceived to be mysterious. ❤ from some of your WA Native viewers.
I’m from mission, bc and I’ve been to the absolute north end of Harrison lake, which would only be accessible, possibly by travelling 4+ hours down a very remote gravel forestry road or by boat. We travelled for about 3.5 hours in a speedboat to get there, and I’ve never seen a Sasquatch, but it’s interesting anyways. The lake closes into a short reedy channel, then opens again into a mini lake or bay, backed by mountains on all sides except for the opening to the larger lake. On the shore there are 7 or 8 small houses/buildings. The southeast mountainside, (which is so steep that I don’t think that you could get up there without using your hands- it would be borderline climbing rather than walking) is very very rocky and bare of trees. There is a cemetery on this steep slope. The slope starts very close to the shore, maybe 25 metres. There are at least 20 marked graves visible from the water. It’s so steep that I can’t imagine HOW or why they chose to bury people there. The grave markers (home made crosses etc) are placed as high as 20 metres up the mountain side. If you were standing there to mourn and lost your footing you’d probably tumble down to the bottom. Some children came out of a house almost immediately when we arrived to watch us and it definitely felt like trespassing, even in the boat, so we left.
Many many cultures from all over the world have very similar flood stories. The oldest is from the oldest culture way before the biblical story. It’s crazy. The similarities are really strange and pretty unexplainable
Bro this dude is so slick with the sponsors he start talking about speaking German and I’m over here like thinkin it’s apart of the history lesson of this story LMAOAOAOOAOAO then he busts out “BABBLE” and I’m like oh well nvm MOVING ONNN😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
36:50 this is a great point. As you mentioned when the climbers noticed he wasn't tethered, one of the ONLY reasons you'd unclip is that your being clipped is endangering your friends. Perhaps he felt symptoms of something like a heart attack, or maybe even given the thinner air and his age maybe he noticed the onset of hypoxia or oxygen deprivation and thats why he unclipped in the first place. Better he die alone than him accidentally kill his friends in the process.
Hearing you mispronounced Rainier every time hurt. Ray-near Pew-Al-Up The story about the food going down the western side sounds like it was probably the Osceola mud flow when the west side of the mountain collapsed, flooding down to Tacoma.
(Pew-wallop) I believe is how it's pronounced. Was stationed in Washington from 2010-2013 and was very fascinated by mount rainier and the culture around it.
Since you asked, Cordilleran is a latin-derived word and as such, the double L is pronounced like a Y. "CORdi-yeran" Oh and I gotta back up everyone here on the subject of Puyallup. It is, in fact, pronounced "pew-AL-up".
Anyone else waiting for new merch drop? Im hoping for some missing 411 or Bigfoot stuff. Or the lorelodge logo just big and in your face in the front or back I love the logo
The men on the mountain in the snow, if he's tumbled down the mountain i think it'd be down from where his stuff was left. Otherwise i think he's by where his stuff and everyone has simply missed him being covered under snow. Maybe heart attack was unconscious or stroke so couldn't call out.
Eric sounds very much like he was experiencing delirium from hypoxia due to the exertion and low oxygen. It probably caused him to unclip and wander off.
As someone from the area, it's pronounced pew-all-up. Not entirely sure on the native pronunciation but most regions have retained a lot of the proper pronunciation, like Squalicum and nooksack
As a german, I had to listen to your "Rechnung" Part twice to understand what you said to be honest. No hate, but there's a lot of room for improvements :D
You really need to do a collaboration with Bob Gymlan at some point on the Bigfoot stuff. I have no doubt that you will disagree on things, but it would still be an interesting collaboration.
David Paulidas just making shit up and or lying/doing terrible research to push a narrative? I am shocked, shocked, well not that shocked. It amazes me how many people still believe he is credible even though he has been shown to not be over and over again.
David paulides does make cases more mysterious or doesn't mention some findings which will make it easily explainable...But if you are firm believer that alot of these mysterious disappearances have some otherworldly reasons then anything goes..
no flat earth, no bigfoot, not a missing 411 case. you've been spoiling all the fun lately. talk about your theory on the Vinland colony I miss your off the wall conjecture
While I wholly believe Paulidas initially set out to research a slew of disappearances with commonalities and provide the public with a compilation of factual coverage of the various cases, believing there was something paranormal occurring in the state parks of Canada and the USA, I also believe that at some point in his summarization, he realized that the majority of them could be chalked up to natural mishaps, based on the available evidence, and decided to embellish the facts or tweak them just enough to (hopefully) bring the public ti the conclusion he had hoped for when he started his mission. I can’t accept that he, “accidentally” made dozens of false claims. I hate that I believe he is a con artist of sorts, because I am struggling to come up with an alternate conclusion.
The thing about the heart attack is so true. My dad just thought he'd thrown his back out or something, went to the chiropractor and she checked his blood pressure and told him "you need to get to the hospital". Turns out he was having a heart attack.
My mom thought her ulcer was acting up and just rested a few minutes before going back to work. The second heart attack was really bad and we got her to the hospital. She was okay in less time than you'd expect and lived a good two decades longer
My dad thought he had a stomach bug. He had a heart attack and we didn’t find out till like 2 months later. Hes fine now but yeah heart attacks can be sneaky
My Aunt didn't even know she had a heart attack until after it was over. She went to the doctor for a scheduled ECG for something else and the doctor was like "I don't see your recent heart attack in your chart what hospital did you go to?" And she was like "hmmm pardon? What heart attack?"
@@SjofnBM1989 that’s pretty much what happened to my dad. Saw his cardiologist for a regular appointment and sure enough it was not a stomach flu back in December
“pew-ALL-up” is the pronunciation i hear the most for Puyallup. i had never seen that word until i moved up here and constantly needed correction on it lmfao. same thing with Seqium actually being pronounced “squim”
You're correct. Lived here my entire life, not too far from Puyallup actually. He does correct himself, as in an earlier video he did pronounce Sequim as it's spelled, but a later video he pronounced it correctly (Squim). It's nice to see that he tries.
You apologize too much for the history segments. They're good. A big reason I stuck around and subbed. If you like 'em, keep doing them, because it can't just be me enjoying them.
Same. History is my jam, and I love that it's not just "American" history, but also history of the people who lived there. Not many people include that and it's great.
The Native American History and Mythology/Folklore is some of my favorite stuff you do. I’ve never heard so much on these subjects. It’s fascinating. Your presentation of the material is not only easily digested but is also delightfully delicious.
Just a note, we don’t call the practices & beliefs of modern religions “myth,” we call it “cosmology.” I recently realized I was making a horrible error, so I’m here to share. I almost used the term wrong while presenting directly on plains culture religious beliefs. Many, many traditional native religions survived colonization and are practiced today. It’s great news, but, unless one is being an atheist edgelord, the term is cosmology. If you only care about the native people of the 1800s, btw, that’s really gross.
24:18 being an Eagle Scout isn’t enough to assume he’s well trained in wilderness survival. I’m an Eagle Scout and I’m a very novice camper. Wouldn’t consider myself a wilderness survivalist at all
@@thomasmorgan9768 yeah but like that’s what I’m saying it turns into an “it depends.” It’s not a huge point either way I just wanted to clarify that not all Eagle Scouts are wilderness survivalist types lol
As a fellow Eagle Scout who taught Wilderness Surval Merit Badge at Boy Scout Camp. The vast majority of Eagle Scouts are horrible at Wilderness survival in my experience
As an EMT, cardiovascular issues can be sudden and have weird presentation. Both of my mother's heart attacks presented like the flu. I've seen folks complain about back pain, anxiety, or just headaches - it's not just referred pain in the arm like many think.
I think most of the disappearances have to do with glaciers. In many Alaskan tribes' legends, glaciers are living things that have been rumored to literally swallow people whole. Since glaciers can move up to five feet an hour, a shifting glacier could easily have "swallowed" a person and, while it moved, closed the crevasse they fell into. This is a plausible explanation. On that note, "If you hear hoofbeats, it's probably a horse, not a zebra," seems relevant. This saying means that, even though there are unreasonable explanations, the most likely explanation is usually the correct one...until you rule out the "horse."
As a mom of a five year old girl, that entire story of "I chased after a squirrel and then when night came I tried to do our bedtime routine" sound absolutely valid. I don't doubt any part of that little girl's story.
When you said “which for some reason involved taking her clothes off and putting them back on” I thought it would’ve been her ‘putting on her pajamas’. A five year old trying to do their night routine may not realize that putting on pjs and just putting on your same clothes again aren’t the same thing lol
The mountain looms large over the entire area and you can only get 1/3 up the mountain by car. I actually know about someone who vanished without a trace from a facility at the base of Mt. Rainier. It’s a massive area and not being able to find people there isn’t surprising. While there might not be a cluster for 411 there, it’s still a place with sorrowful mysteries.
You are definitely right about that. Anyone who has ever been to Rainier would easily be able to understand how someone could go missing there. I personally believe that he had some kind of accident which prompted to him to unhook himself from his rope to head back down the mountain, and on the way he became incapacitated and was covered by snow. Regardless of what exactly happened, and what it was that lead to him unhooking himself from the rope, I'm almost certain that no one could find him because he fell in a crevasse and/or got covered in snow.
Heart attacks are quite insidious. My roommate died of a heart attack two years ago, from a heart condition that he didn't know about. He made no noise when it happened. Our other roommate was 10 feet away, in his room. Heard nothing. Was awful :(
I'll say this- I've spent my entire life hanging out on Mt Rainier and tacoma. With friends and alone. But never off the beaten path. I've done a TINY amount of exploring a few times, and it is shocking how fast you're completely lost. It never really scared me but I always knew how insane of a risk that would be. I totally understand how people could disappear or how there could be feral people there. Also- PEW- like church pew, AL- pronounced like Alfred, UP- Like the opposite of down. Some people say pew-all-up
There's a phenomenon known around Rainier called Lahar where when the mountain kicks up volcanic activity all the ice and snow flash melts and all the surrounding valleys are in danger of having 10-30ft wall of water, mud, and picked up trees pass through them. Also, Pyuallup is pronounced Pew-all-up.
I absolutely love your channel!! The way you tell the story, quick intro, your cadence , your intelligence and the way you deep dive actual facts and most of all your humor. It's my favorite!! Thank you for all of it.
As a german I can approve what you said. Most of the time if you want to pay you just raise your hand to a waiter/waitress and ask them: 1. Entschuldung. Kann ich bezahlen. 2. Zahlen, bitte. Or 3. Ich würde gerne bezahlen. Which means: 1. Excuse me, can I pay. 2. Pay(check), please. 3. I would like to pay.
I spent over a year in Norway and it’s cool how similar so many words are between Norway/Sweden/Denmark, German, French, and English. The word for “pay” in German (bezahlen) is similar to “pay” (betale) in Norwegian. I just find it interesting and intriguing. Then I went to Finland and threw all my knowledge of language out the window 😂
@e.b.squared Norway and Denmark were constantly taking over Germany, Germany took over Britain in the 1600s so much so that King George I only spoke German. Finnish is very close to Old Scandinavian (how the pagan Vikings would have spoken)
As a future historian myself I have to say I absolutely love that the history sections are a thing! Having that additional context is just so neat. Also as a European it's extra cool that the sections mostly cover Native American history because it's not a topic that comes up often in my own studies!
Don't take anything from him as fact, he is a religious guy from America, those people don't tell you the actual historic facts, they just feed you religious propaganda
if you guys like native American/early us history you should check out "wild west extravaganza" and "history at the ok corral". WWE is my favorite and he has a sense of humor I appreciate but isn't for everyone and ok corral is more serious. Both are incredibly interesting though.
@@reefsroost696 you're welcome. They're great channels but underrated. UA-cam doesn't push stuff that's educational or interesting like that enough, it's all drake vs Kendrick and reaction channels.
Like regular stalkers, u will not know of being stalked by a sasquatch 99% of the time so it's safe 2 say that they r definitely closer, more often than realized 👣🐾
I love how the history segments are about Native American history and beliefs. They deserve to have their history preserved like the rest of American history.
Prominence is real. I will remember till the day I die the first time I saw Rainier. I was on a train from Portland to start college in Seattle in 1996 and we came around a bend.. and my jaw literally dropped. That peak is like nothing I've ever seen. To this day, every time I'm near it, I look for it.
Similar experience coming from Phoenix last week to live here in Bellevue. What an incredible mountain, like nothing I've seen in Arizona. Only thing that compares in awe inspiring, jaw dropping beauty is the grand canyon in my opinion. Just a stunningly beautiful state.
Idk who has been in your ear, but the fact that I’m going to get a history lesson that usually has little to do with the case…is actually why I enjoy your channel! I always learn new things!
Mountaineer Ed Viesturs goes in depth with HAPE and HACE incidents on Ranier. He personally witnessed people falling off it due to bad decisions and has been involved in numerous rescues and was a guide up there for years. Side note... Prior to heading to Alaska, some good Mt Denali reading is Denalis Howl. About a climbing disaster caused by crazy ass weather.
39:39 Halq'eméylem (anglicised to Halkomelem) is pronounced halk-uh-MAY-lum. Otherwise, I always love the history sections, and I'm glad to hear about the Coast Salish people finally! I love to hear about the legends I grew up learning online for others to learn about.
i never comment on videos but man you are the only real youtuber i have found in my many years of searching. it’s always the clickbait, making stories bigger than they truly are, making every little detail seem like a mystery. you are raw and try to find the most plausible conclusion before jumping to some out of this world disappearance. i’m a huge believer in bigfoot and aliens and all that but the stories i hear always sound way more than it really is. i’m so glad i found your channel!
Of course you plug the Alaska trip right as I get a new job and can't take any time off for the next 6 months. Damn you aiden! I hope that this trip goes well and this becomes either an annual or multi-time per year kind of thing that continues! Basically, I hope this isn't a one-and-done kind of opportunity because that would make me a very sad panda
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@TheLoreLodge Puyallup is pronounced "Pew-AL-up," with the emphasis on "AL" and with "AL" being pronounced like "Al Sharpton" ... Dont ask me why i chose his name specifically to explain it, your guess is as good as mine lmao. And thank you for doing a video about M411 in my hometown-ish! Reppin Tacoma 253 baybee :D
nah dude your hate for david is ruining your channel especially since hes never claimed to know what the phenomenon is your baseless knit picking attack (cause its definitely not appropriate criticism) on a fellow researcher is shamefull used to like your channel for well done thought out research but your covering on missing 411 just aint it bro
@@thesasquatch303so peer reviewing and bringing light to evidence that didn’t exist prior when it was published. That’s hate. Calling out misinformation or misunderstandings isn’t hate. It’s correcting information. Tell me you don’t watch his videos without telling me.
always skip over the "native history" of every story, mostly just to get back to the actual story, and why I clicked in the first place, lol.
Hey aiden the advice that your German Teacher gave you is correct...
If you would ask the place you're at "könnte ich die Rechnung haben" before you payed they would just Look at your like a weirdo because getting the "Rechnung" needs to happen after paying.
But generally speaking i would advice to never ask for the "Rechnung" because giving out "Rechnungen" makes it impossible for them to "optimize" on the amount of Taxes.
Taxation is theft.
Dear Aidan, you need to look into the disappearances on Mount Nyangani Mountain in Zimbabwe. Tons of people disappear on that mountain and no one knows why. It's such a huge problem, that the GOVERNMENT installed cameras (!) on the mountain and if you want to hike there you need 1. A guide and 2. your mobile phone needs to be fully charged. And yet people still go missing and the most baffling thing is that this should be impossible because the mountain is a PLATEAU where people can be seen easily. The circumstances in which people disappear are typically missing 411 cases. Not long ago 2 boys disappeared out of a group (!) and were found dead in shallow water and the place where they were found had been searched before. Hell, a whole delegation from India disappeared there for days and when they were found they didn't even know that they were missing for such a long time. They thought it was just a few hours. The shamans living around the mountain are saying that it's a holy place and warn travelers that they need to follow certain rules or otherwise they will disappear. 2 of these rules are: 1. Don't wear red or bright clothes and 2. if you see something that's really strange/unusual: Pretend you didn't see it and walk away - never ever go investigate or you disappear. This isn't just some African shamans saying this, the same rules are found all around the world like Asia, Europe and in the US like the Appalachians. That these rules exist all over the world is not a coincidence. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason why so many people disappear is that they didn't know about rule number 2 I just mentioned.Nyangani
That is what I was thinking too I hope they do cover it!
No, it will turn out everyone was wrong except this guy.
If you hear your name being called, another human in the distance crying out for help, or see anything strange or unusual happen and you react to it, you’re in big trouble. Also, don’t let them know your name.
Cult of kidnapping shamans?
Sounds interesting, I always wonder if there's gas that affect people in places like that
Boeing’s hitman, finishing this video, breaths a sigh of relief that his already busy schedule won’t have to get any busier
When i heard he was a boeing engineer I immediately went "welp, we know what happened to that guy"
Bigfoot works for Boeing?
@@pandat581 nonsensical conspiracy
Idk why but I read this in the Stanley Parable narrator voice and it was oddly fitting
@@AverageAlien
Yeah 3 whistleblowers turning up dead ,but let's still give the war criminals and baby killers an incredible benefit of the doubt
You sound like a moral cripple
GFU
Repeatedly
Infinitum
I live near the bottom of Mt Rainier in Ashford. My family has lived here since the 80s. It's a scenic and beautiful area, and depending on who you ask up here you get one of three awnsers: People who have legit seen things, people spinning a yarn just because it's funny to them, and people who look at you like a you ate one too many questionable fungi. My aunts have stories, my mom has stories, my granddad has stories although he will never explain a thing. This place truly is different.
We have bears, cougars, deer, elk and lots of other large wildlife. Ive been camping and hunting these woods since I was 5 and I don’t think we have anything supernatural. There is just a special feeling of vulnerability in our woods because of how thick they are, yet I imagine that feeling persists in like areas worldwide.
I love the history segments so please don’t stop making them! All your shows are so well done. I love this channel!!!!
The Pacific Northwest is an amazingly weird place. More content about it please!
Grew up here, can agree, it's definitely amazing and weird. One of my fave bits of local folklore is about the Douglas firs that are the ubiquitous mainstays of the temperate rainforests here and why their cones look the way they do with trident bracts projecting from between the scales. Story goes there was a forest fire and the mice could not outrun the flames so they cried out to the trees "oh great firs, please shelter us!" and the firs agreed and opened up their cones for the mice to hide in, and that's why to this day there's little bracts sticking out that look like a mouse's butt with the tail and hindlegs as they jumped inside to hide.
All, try the salmonberries, they won't hurt you, just try them, I promise, no, I'm not gonna tell you what it tastes like before you do, just try the things. First time tasting face is hilarious, the confusion that "raspberry but it's orange" doesn't taste like you expect is fucking hilarious.
Can agree. Just make sure you avoid the banjo-playing tree ninjas that have shotguns. I lived in the North Kitsap area and dear god.
@@emexdizzydid you ever get nightmares from eating salmon berries? That’s always been what we say but no idea if it’s true!
@TheLoreLodge Puyallup is pronounced "Pew-AL-up," with the emphasis on "AL" and with "AL" being pronounced like "Al Sharpton" ... Dont ask me why i chose his name specifically to explain it, your guess is as good as mine lmao. And thank you for doing a video about M411 in my hometown-ish! Reppin Tacoma 253 baybee :D
I paused and had to tell my wife how he was saying it. 360 reppin. 😂
206
That’s funny, I’m from Seattle and I had no idea he was even trying to pronounce puyallup lol
Gotta disagree. It's pew-AWL-up!
@@FranklyRanunculushonestly I was thinking of editing that pronunciation as a 2nd version because for me personally the way I pronounce it depends entirely on the sentence I'm using it in, but they're so similar I figured 'meh.'
If the Aidens get abducted by Sasquatch in Alaska, do you suppose that Wendigoon will cover the case?
At first I didn't like the History part but now I realize that's what makes this channel so special.
Right, there's only so many times I can hear the same story told. At least he's got a history niche with some eccentric banter.
I will pound the table for this until the day i die. You are better than Paulides. You have this uncanny gift for mysterious tragedies that nobody on any platform has. This premiere Lore Lodge content. Please keep these coming! The side quests are great, but every Friday ive been praying for the bread and butter. BOOOOOMMMM. I live in Reading PA. Im 25 minutes away from you! Do it for the mother land!!!
I don't believe Paulides is ill-intentioned, I just think he's gotten away with more or less 'lazy' reporting for years. Now that the 411 phenomenon has gotten the attention of hard-working, deep-digging content producers, he's getting shown up, and details he either missed or left out are getting found.
@coderexe30 I think he's just gone to far down the rabbit hole. I'm a believer. I believe in UFOs, Bigfoot, and the paranormal. But not everything is paranormal. He conviently leaves out information that would lend credibility to a plausible explanation to make everything paranormal. UFOs and Bigfoot have been in texts and cultures since the dawn of time really. So it's not far fetched to be a believer. Paulides just cares more about everything being his work so he makes all the money from it than he does actually solving the cases and the people involved. He's the most selfish guy I support. And his UA-cam channel reflects it.
excitedly been waiting for this today. I moved here about two years ago and been learning a lot about the Indigenous culture in the shadow of the beautiful Tahoma. Puyallup is pronounced "Pew-wall-up". I love your Indigenous history lessons in these, I've learned a lot about different tribes through your videos. Especially love seeing how they mash up. Theres a LOT of tribes here, some federally recognized some not.
Also potlach ceremonies here traditionally and historically occur around what the US celebrates as thanksgiving. it was cool to learn some societies had a positive tradition during that time before we came along
As a pacific northwest resident, for the final parts about Sasquatch. It really wouldn't surprise me as those forests hide secrets I can't comprehend. (Also full of mountain lions and now invasive timber wolves because out of all wolves they had to pick the most aggressive for yellowstone repopulation)
I love listening to video essays like this while working. It really feels like being 12 and watching the history channel.
Always do native history segment. I love it so much! Thank you
I must follow the instructions, ahem:
BIGFOOT MUSCLE MOMMY!!
I love your history segments, they are so well researched! It is clear you love history and it differentiates your channel different from other channels. Also, this may have been mentioned in the original video on Sasquatch, but Agassiz is pronounced “ Aga-see”. Not sure why the z is silent.
Ayyyyy Washington mentioned! We love our mountain (when it decides to show itself lol)
I just moved here from Scottsdale last week. It's just so beautiful here. Feels surreal coming from living my entire adult life in the Phoenix metro area. I've fallen in love already and can't wait to spend the next few years checking off my list of places to explore here. What an awesome place!
YAY LORE LODGE MERCH!!!! I've been wanting to purchase, but don't particularly love the styles you currently have. I'm excited to see what's new!
The first mountain I ever skied was Mount Rainier. Great channel with facts over fiction.
History history always the history please. Love it.
Pew-ahl-luhp
Too-lay-lip
Yak-ih-muh
Also, most Coast Salish teachings, medicine, tradition, spirituality are passed down through families with stories & ceremony and not shared with outsiders regularly...it was dangerous to do so back in the day. Also sacred, to be taken seriously. Probably why it's often called an enigma & perceived to be mysterious.
❤ from some of your WA Native viewers.
I’m from mission, bc and I’ve been to the absolute north end of Harrison lake, which would only be accessible, possibly by travelling 4+ hours down a very remote gravel forestry road or by boat. We travelled for about 3.5 hours in a speedboat to get there, and I’ve never seen a Sasquatch, but it’s interesting anyways. The lake closes into a short reedy channel, then opens again into a mini lake or bay, backed by mountains on all sides except for the opening to the larger lake. On the shore there are 7 or 8 small houses/buildings. The southeast mountainside, (which is so steep that I don’t think that you could get up there without using your hands- it would be borderline climbing rather than walking) is very very rocky and bare of trees. There is a cemetery on this steep slope. The slope starts very close to the shore, maybe 25 metres. There are at least 20 marked graves visible from the water. It’s so steep that I can’t imagine HOW or why they chose to bury people there. The grave markers (home made crosses etc) are placed as high as 20 metres up the mountain side. If you were standing there to mourn and lost your footing you’d probably tumble down to the bottom.
Some children came out of a house almost immediately when we arrived to watch us and it definitely felt like trespassing, even in the boat, so we left.
Wow finally caught up after binging from the very first vid to now while at work, keep up the great work!
Many many cultures from all over the world have very similar flood stories. The oldest is from the oldest culture way before the biblical story. It’s crazy. The similarities are really strange and pretty unexplainable
Bro this dude is so slick with the sponsors he start talking about speaking German and I’m over here like thinkin it’s apart of the history lesson of this story LMAOAOAOOAOAO then he busts out “BABBLE” and I’m like oh well nvm MOVING ONNN😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Im so glad you told me about poliditus and his nonsense. I had a feeling about him
36:50 this is a great point. As you mentioned when the climbers noticed he wasn't tethered, one of the ONLY reasons you'd unclip is that your being clipped is endangering your friends. Perhaps he felt symptoms of something like a heart attack, or maybe even given the thinner air and his age maybe he noticed the onset of hypoxia or oxygen deprivation and thats why he unclipped in the first place. Better he die alone than him accidentally kill his friends in the process.
Being from WA it’s always interesting hearing stories like this so close to home
Hearing you mispronounced Rainier every time hurt.
Ray-near
Pew-Al-Up
The story about the food going down the western side sounds like it was probably the Osceola mud flow when the west side of the mountain collapsed, flooding down to Tacoma.
Don't worry, I watched all those ones you stayed up late working super hard on. Thanks for a great episode homie
(Pew-wallop) I believe is how it's pronounced. Was stationed in Washington from 2010-2013 and was very fascinated by mount rainier and the culture around it.
Not only did I not receive a notification for this video, it also didn't show up in my subscriptions until this morning.
Harry Truman lived on spirit lake on Mount St Helens and was washed down the mountain like the legend says about Rainier 🤷🏽♂
Right, maybe the least fit member unclipped himself and teleported past them to the summit. Makes total sense!
Since you asked, Cordilleran is a latin-derived word and as such, the double L is pronounced like a Y. "CORdi-yeran" Oh and I gotta back up everyone here on the subject of Puyallup. It is, in fact, pronounced "pew-AL-up".
Thank goodness I missed these
Anyone else waiting for new merch drop? Im hoping for some missing 411 or Bigfoot stuff. Or the lorelodge logo just big and in your face in the front or back I love the logo
Me: I'm never going to do anything remotely similar ever
Also me:
later with friends we go on cave tours, hiking etc in the Black Hills.
Oh Babbel! Just like that tower! THE DARK TOWER!!!
Sound like the story you tell at about 9:17 describes a volcanic eruption and a Lahar.
The men on the mountain in the snow, if he's tumbled down the mountain i think it'd be down from where his stuff was left. Otherwise i think he's by where his stuff and everyone has simply missed him being covered under snow. Maybe heart attack was unconscious or stroke so couldn't call out.
Eric sounds very much like he was experiencing delirium from hypoxia due to the exertion and low oxygen. It probably caused him to unclip and wander off.
Puyallup is pronounced Pew All Up, I've lived in the Tacoma area my whole life, only about 15 miles from Mt Rainier.
As someone from the area, it's pronounced pew-all-up. Not entirely sure on the native pronunciation but most regions have retained a lot of the proper pronunciation, like Squalicum and nooksack
As a german, I had to listen to your "Rechnung" Part twice to understand what you said to be honest. No hate, but there's a lot of room for improvements :D
24:34 “young Boeing engineer” okay hear me out
You really need to do a collaboration with Bob Gymlan at some point on the Bigfoot stuff. I have no doubt that you will disagree on things, but it would still be an interesting collaboration.
David Paulidas just making shit up and or lying/doing terrible research to push a narrative? I am shocked, shocked, well not that shocked. It amazes me how many people still believe he is credible even though he has been shown to not be over and over again.
David paulides does make cases more mysterious or doesn't mention some findings which will make it easily explainable...But if you are firm believer that alot of these mysterious disappearances have some otherworldly reasons then anything goes..
Hi Aidan ... viele liebe Grüsse aus Germany 🥳😎🌞🍻 ... love your videos ...
I feel like a lot of these lose their mystique if you consider a crime may have occured
no flat earth, no bigfoot, not a missing 411 case. you've been spoiling all the fun lately. talk about your theory on the Vinland colony I miss your off the wall conjecture
Nice video! Enjoyed it with my workout
DP has started with they are a 411 story then worked it that way.
Puyallup = pew-al-up Babbel doesn't teach that one??!!
Thank you for pronouncing Duvall correctly. As someone who lives right next door it’s a very commonly irritating mistake 😂
I heard many times that the tree people speak Douglas (52:26).
GO BIRDS. I love seeing my fellow Pennsylvanians succeeding on YT 😎
Great research!
Pu-lahl-yup, but for somebody from the other side of the country from us, that's very, very close!
If this guy doesn't start acknowledging that bigfoot is a demon I'm seriously going to have to doubt his credentials.
As a Washingtonian the pronunciation is killing me 😂😂😂 much love tho
we always pronounced Puyallup like "pew-wall-up" but over a decade in WA I've heard it said a few ways
"hey guys, lets meet up at DISAPPOINTMENT CLEVER" .......
While I wholly believe Paulidas initially set out to research a slew of disappearances with commonalities and provide the public with a compilation of factual coverage of the various cases, believing there was something paranormal occurring in the state parks of Canada and the USA, I also believe that at some point in his summarization, he realized that the majority of them could be chalked up to natural mishaps, based on the available evidence, and decided to embellish the facts or tweak them just enough to (hopefully) bring the public ti the conclusion he had hoped for when he started his mission. I can’t accept that he, “accidentally” made dozens of false claims. I hate that I believe he is a con artist of sorts, because I am struggling to come up with an alternate conclusion.
Respect for correcting all of DP mistakes 🫡 calling it out how it actually is
The thing about the heart attack is so true. My dad just thought he'd thrown his back out or something, went to the chiropractor and she checked his blood pressure and told him "you need to get to the hospital". Turns out he was having a heart attack.
My mom thought her ulcer was acting up and just rested a few minutes before going back to work.
The second heart attack was really bad and we got her to the hospital. She was okay in less time than you'd expect and lived a good two decades longer
My dad thought he had a stomach bug. He had a heart attack and we didn’t find out till like 2 months later. Hes fine now but yeah heart attacks can be sneaky
My Aunt didn't even know she had a heart attack until after it was over.
She went to the doctor for a scheduled ECG for something else and the doctor was like "I don't see your recent heart attack in your chart what hospital did you go to?"
And she was like "hmmm pardon? What heart attack?"
@@SjofnBM1989 that’s pretty much what happened to my dad. Saw his cardiologist for a regular appointment and sure enough it was not a stomach flu back in December
@@KatieTirrell yeah, my grandfather had several heart attacks. The first was a minor inconvenience but made him feel very unwell for a day.
“pew-ALL-up” is the pronunciation i hear the most for Puyallup. i had never seen that word until i moved up here and constantly needed correction on it lmfao. same thing with Seqium actually being pronounced “squim”
You're correct. Lived here my entire life, not too far from Puyallup actually. He does correct himself, as in an earlier video he did pronounce Sequim as it's spelled, but a later video he pronounced it correctly (Squim). It's nice to see that he tries.
Some people say “poo- y’all- up” and it drives me up a wall and they’re alleged “locals”
came to comment this lol
Ditto 😂
I could always tell someone wasn’t from Washington when they tried to pronounce it, or especially my hometown Steilacoom.
I never can get over “ muscle mommy big foot” it’s my favorite thing
Same! 😂
Mmmm 🤤
Lmao... Adam seemed so pissed when he said "ya know what? Go ahead!"
Would.
Definitely would.
I don't get the joke. What is it from? Can someone clue me in please?
It's pronounced "Pew all up".
Also, the mossy old man story sounds like it's describing a Lahar caused by an eruption
You apologize too much for the history segments. They're good. A big reason I stuck around and subbed. If you like 'em, keep doing them, because it can't just be me enjoying them.
Same. History is my jam, and I love that it's not just "American" history, but also history of the people who lived there. Not many people include that and it's great.
Same it makes the video
Plus it's so simple to just skip them if you don't like them/aren't feeling it that day. Especially with youtube's sections thing
I can't give the video my full attention until later tonight so I'm just going to play this in the background to help yall with the algorithm.
Commenting for that reason 👍
Same
Algo
I do this for streamers all the time. Put em on tab! Jump in when ya can. ❤
Yes me too
Pleeeeaaase don’t ever stop doing the history segment! I ADORE the lore, but it means more with the yore.
THIS
AMAZING COMMENT 👏
Nice
The Native American History and Mythology/Folklore is some of my favorite stuff you do. I’ve never heard so much on these subjects. It’s fascinating. Your presentation of the material is not only easily digested but is also delightfully delicious.
yes!! he makes it so digestible
Just a note, we don’t call the practices & beliefs of modern religions “myth,” we call it “cosmology.” I recently realized I was making a horrible error, so I’m here to share. I almost used the term wrong while presenting directly on plains culture religious beliefs. Many, many traditional native religions survived colonization and are practiced today. It’s great news, but, unless one is being an atheist edgelord, the term is cosmology. If you only care about the native people of the 1800s, btw, that’s really gross.
@@montananerd8244 Thank you.
24:18 being an Eagle Scout isn’t enough to assume he’s well trained in wilderness survival. I’m an Eagle Scout and I’m a very novice camper. Wouldn’t consider myself a wilderness survivalist at all
Ayyyy I am an Eagle Scout as well
Eagle here too! But honestly I think it depends on your region, district, and troop.
@@thomasmorgan9768 yeah but like that’s what I’m saying it turns into an “it depends.” It’s not a huge point either way I just wanted to clarify that not all Eagle Scouts are wilderness survivalist types lol
I definitely was trained to be lol but then again I'm from Utah'rdia so it kinda comes with the territory
As a fellow Eagle Scout who taught Wilderness Surval Merit Badge at Boy Scout Camp. The vast majority of Eagle Scouts are horrible at Wilderness survival in my experience
As an EMT, cardiovascular issues can be sudden and have weird presentation. Both of my mother's heart attacks presented like the flu. I've seen folks complain about back pain, anxiety, or just headaches - it's not just referred pain in the arm like many think.
I think most of the disappearances have to do with glaciers. In many Alaskan tribes' legends, glaciers are living things that have been rumored to literally swallow people whole. Since glaciers can move up to five feet an hour, a shifting glacier could easily have "swallowed" a person and, while it moved, closed the crevasse they fell into. This is a plausible explanation. On that note, "If you hear hoofbeats, it's probably a horse, not a zebra," seems relevant. This saying means that, even though there are unreasonable explanations, the most likely explanation is usually the correct one...until you rule out the "horse."
That’s a really good theory
As a mom of a five year old girl, that entire story of "I chased after a squirrel and then when night came I tried to do our bedtime routine" sound absolutely valid. I don't doubt any part of that little girl's story.
When you said “which for some reason involved taking her clothes off and putting them back on” I thought it would’ve been her ‘putting on her pajamas’. A five year old trying to do their night routine may not realize that putting on pjs and just putting on your same clothes again aren’t the same thing lol
yea i thought the same lol
That’s a good theory. I’ve seen kids with that logic
The mountain looms large over the entire area and you can only get 1/3 up the mountain by car.
I actually know about someone who vanished without a trace from a facility at the base of Mt. Rainier. It’s a massive area and not being able to find people there isn’t surprising. While there might not be a cluster for 411 there, it’s still a place with sorrowful mysteries.
You are definitely right about that. Anyone who has ever been to Rainier would easily be able to understand how someone could go missing there. I personally believe that he had some kind of accident which prompted to him to unhook himself from his rope to head back down the mountain, and on the way he became incapacitated and was covered by snow. Regardless of what exactly happened, and what it was that lead to him unhooking himself from the rope, I'm almost certain that no one could find him because he fell in a crevasse and/or got covered in snow.
Maybe he had to take an urgent dump......just saying, then fell
@@BUBBLESPOGO ngl no one brings up stuff like that but I think it almost every time
Heart attacks are quite insidious. My roommate died of a heart attack two years ago, from a heart condition that he didn't know about. He made no noise when it happened. Our other roommate was 10 feet away, in his room. Heard nothing. Was awful :(
I'm so sorry for your loss 🫂
*but why was your German teacher banned from Poland???*
He insisted there was a November 31st.
Maybe he was making inappropriate territorial claims to the Sudetenland?
He likes paintings.
@truegemuese Oh, yes of course. That's what I meant to say 😂
I'll say this- I've spent my entire life hanging out on Mt Rainier and tacoma. With friends and alone. But never off the beaten path. I've done a TINY amount of exploring a few times, and it is shocking how fast you're completely lost. It never really scared me but I always knew how insane of a risk that would be. I totally understand how people could disappear or how there could be feral people there.
Also- PEW- like church pew, AL- pronounced like Alfred, UP- Like the opposite of down. Some people say pew-all-up
All and al from Alfred are different sounds so this part at least is not helpful
@@gnmidnight1191they’re saying some people say it that way, so its said both ways.
I like the history section! It’s actually my favorite part
There's a phenomenon known around Rainier called Lahar where when the mountain kicks up volcanic activity all the ice and snow flash melts and all the surrounding valleys are in danger of having 10-30ft wall of water, mud, and picked up trees pass through them.
Also, Pyuallup is pronounced Pew-all-up.
I absolutely love your channel!! The way you tell the story, quick intro, your cadence , your intelligence and the way you deep dive actual facts and most of all your humor. It's my favorite!! Thank you for all of it.
Yes!
As a german I can approve what you said. Most of the time if you want to pay you just raise your hand to a waiter/waitress and ask them:
1. Entschuldung. Kann ich bezahlen.
2. Zahlen, bitte.
Or 3. Ich würde gerne bezahlen.
Which means:
1. Excuse me, can I pay.
2. Pay(check), please.
3. I would like to pay.
Just don't mention the war
@@derekmcmanus8615 I did once, but I think I got away with it.
I spent over a year in Norway and it’s cool how similar so many words are between Norway/Sweden/Denmark, German, French, and English. The word for “pay” in German (bezahlen) is similar to “pay” (betale) in Norwegian. I just find it interesting and intriguing.
Then I went to Finland and threw all my knowledge of language out the window 😂
@e.b.squared Norway and Denmark were constantly taking over Germany, Germany took over Britain in the 1600s so much so that King George I only spoke German.
Finnish is very close to Old Scandinavian (how the pagan Vikings would have spoken)
@@e.b.squared 'gift' words are an amazing facet of modern language
As a future historian myself I have to say I absolutely love that the history sections are a thing! Having that additional context is just so neat. Also as a European it's extra cool that the sections mostly cover Native American history because it's not a topic that comes up often in my own studies!
That's my favourite part of the video because I know most of the missing 411 cases but I don't know native american history at all
Don't take anything from him as fact, he is a religious guy from America, those people don't tell you the actual historic facts, they just feed you religious propaganda
if you guys like native American/early us history you should check out "wild west extravaganza" and "history at the ok corral". WWE is my favorite and he has a sense of humor I appreciate but isn't for everyone and ok corral is more serious. Both are incredibly interesting though.
@@fattdamon1980
Thanks for the info.
@@reefsroost696 you're welcome. They're great channels but underrated. UA-cam doesn't push stuff that's educational or interesting like that enough, it's all drake vs Kendrick and reaction channels.
If we sign up for the trip, can you guarantee that there will be Sasquatches?
Or is the the plural of Sasquatch simply Sasquatch, like the word moose? Hmmm...
@@Bevaboo I believe it sasqueetch like geese
Best they can do is big hairy men.
Like regular stalkers, u will not know of being stalked by a sasquatch 99% of the time so it's safe 2 say that they r definitely closer, more often than realized 👣🐾
Puyallup is pronounced
Pew-al-up by locals.
Second this it is indeed
I'm hiking Rainer in late July, so I'm a bit spooked that this video just so happened to come out now haha
rest in peace :)
Bring peanut butter for the samsquanch
Bruh…don’t do it
Safer to be in a group. Be alert and aware. The terrain is apparently tricky.
Be fair, you are more likely to die in a car accident on the way to the park than you are to die on the mountain.
I love how the history segments are about Native American history and beliefs. They deserve to have their history preserved like the rest of American history.
Prominence is real. I will remember till the day I die the first time I saw Rainier. I was on a train from Portland to start college in Seattle in 1996 and we came around a bend.. and my jaw literally dropped. That peak is like nothing I've ever seen. To this day, every time I'm near it, I look for it.
Similar experience coming from Phoenix last week to live here in Bellevue. What an incredible mountain, like nothing I've seen in Arizona. Only thing that compares in awe inspiring, jaw dropping beauty is the grand canyon in my opinion. Just a stunningly beautiful state.
Idk who has been in your ear, but the fact that I’m going to get a history lesson that usually has little to do with the case…is actually why I enjoy your channel! I always learn new things!
Mountaineer Ed Viesturs goes in depth with HAPE and HACE incidents on Ranier. He personally witnessed people falling off it due to bad decisions and has been involved in numerous rescues and was a guide up there for years.
Side note... Prior to heading to Alaska, some good Mt Denali reading is Denalis Howl. About a climbing disaster caused by crazy ass weather.
39:39 Halq'eméylem (anglicised to Halkomelem) is pronounced halk-uh-MAY-lum. Otherwise, I always love the history sections, and I'm glad to hear about the Coast Salish people finally! I love to hear about the legends I grew up learning online for others to learn about.
The history sections are a big part of what sets your work heads-and-shoulders above that of similar channels, sir. Please keep doing them!
This is going on the big tv 😎
Same
i never comment on videos but man you are the only real youtuber i have found in my many years of searching. it’s always the clickbait, making stories bigger than they truly are, making every little detail seem like a mystery. you are raw and try to find the most plausible conclusion before jumping to some out of this world disappearance. i’m a huge believer in bigfoot and aliens and all that but the stories i hear always sound way more than it really is. i’m so glad i found your channel!
Of course you plug the Alaska trip right as I get a new job and can't take any time off for the next 6 months. Damn you aiden! I hope that this trip goes well and this becomes either an annual or multi-time per year kind of thing that continues! Basically, I hope this isn't a one-and-done kind of opportunity because that would make me a very sad panda