The accident would almost certainly not have happened if it wasn't there but quite why the cyclists didn't consider this massive obstruction to his view a safety issue only he can say.
@@Alex-qq1gm maybe the cyclist could have considered the massive risk he was taking by ignoring traffic signals. He didn’t even do that so was highly unlikely to be practicing road craft and defensive riding anyway. The planter is not at fault here.
@@highdownmartin multiple factors play into accidents, in this case the bad junction design, poor visibility and bad road use. Part of the purpose of safe junction design is to reduce the risk of accidents even when people are inattentive or doing things wrong. This junction is designed badly *and* the cyclists did the wrong thing.
Years ago, I worked with a lad my same age whose late father had struck and killed a pedestrian who was crossing a fast dual-carriageway at night. No blame could have been or was attributed to my friend's father but it messed him up for the rest of his life. It's worth remembering that motorised vehicles may be harder than pedestrians and cyclists but they have soft centres. As a cyclist, I stop at red lights and do not depart early; I have little sympathy with red light jumpers, no matter what form of transport they are using.
That's interesting. My local bypass, mainly single carriageway, 25k vehicles a day, and built in 1995, has footpath crossings laid out with a variety of options including signal controlled, uncontrolled with central refuge, and at least one where there is no indication at all and the requirement is to thread between two sets of overlapping crash barriers on the central reservation at that particular point between crossing each lane 'naked'. I haven't been across the last one.
Ultimately, nothing is risk free. Motorised transport has inherent dangers that cannot be completely mitigated. Society accepts the risks for the time and effort it saves. But nobody knows how it would affect them should the worst happen, perhaps that is the biggest risk you take when you get behind the wheel.
@@cameraroll4030 Yep. Being somewhat older, I grew up at a time when death in road accidents was far more likely than today, almost considered part of life. I've known families that were ripped apart by such tragedies. The same goes for industrial accidents too. People complain about Health & Safety but the figures of people who died at work, even up until not many decades ago were truly awful. Every one of them is just the tip of the iceberg of devastation.
The way some of the cyclist delivery people ride honestly scares me that and they just set a bad example while also adding to the bad rep cyclist can have.
If I'm honest, I reckon I would have missed the cyclist too as I would likely have been much more focused on further errant pedestrians crossing during my green light. In fact, I see that happen all the time and it really highlights how you should never rely on your light being green.
I even looked on approach expecting to see a cyclist coming from the right and STILL missed it first time. You quickly get fixed on the pedestrians, and there’s just no way you’d realistically see them at any point when driving.
I was looking too, having seen the thumbnail, but the pedestrians took my attention. The cyclist must have been on another planet if he thought there was half a chance of getting away with that move.
That big, yellow planter (or whatever it was) would definitely have been ringing alarm bells for me. But that's probably because these videos have made me hyer-aware of blind spots and being seen by others. The cammer's speed was decent for the general risk.
Seven months after passing my motorcycle test I had a young girl 12 year old run into the side of my motorcycle while looking backwards across a dual carriageway. She ran into the side of my motorcycle I was travelling at just 12 miles an hour when she hit me and as a consequence I ended up having to deal with the fact that this young girl would never walk again. She wasn't looking when she was running she didn't even know I was there when she hit me. When my motorcycle struck her I was the one that the police tried to prosecute I was the one they came for and although I was innocent and I was proved innocent it deeply affected me for years and years.. there was literally nothing I could have done about it..
I'm sure you must feel some sense of guilt/responsibility if that girl truly can't walk again (not saying you're in the wrong but it's understandable that people would support the person that's injured the most)
@@KoldPhaze maybe the first time I've ever left an emotional ish comment on UA-cam, I did I felt awful. I become extremely depressed and I thought about it non stop for the next few years. It made me unrealistically aware of my surroundings and I was honestly pretty good before. I had the patent screaming at me calling me all sorts of names and I could see how heart broken mother was. She was absolutely broken which made me feel worse. The girl laying on the floor of this duel carriageway screaming unable to move I will never forget it. I remember calling 999 and explaining that someone had run into the side of me. It was immediately my fault or that's how I felt, the crash bar moving forward at just a few mph was enough to destroy her kneecap and lower portion of her leg. She had these pins out into her knee she did walk I believe in the end but she had permanent disable / nerve damage needed aids. The police made me feel even worse. Didn't offer me any help instead took me to court where I gave them the 4 videos the bike has recorded side front rear and while I could prove I wasn't to blame, and I won with the other side having ti pay me for the emotional hell they put me through, I was a total mess I was broken and I stopped riding for a year for the most part. The mother did eventually forgive me she apologised it was pretty clear who was to blame. I was offered counselling but by then it was too late.i can't forget but I've learnt to live with it.. That's why cyclist pee me off so much and car drivers. They don't understand how vulnerable they both are. The cyclist vs a car never gonna work and if the car driver is a decent human being, if they hit or kill someone they are gonna have to live with it no amount of money can change that. I never even took the money from this incident I couldn't. Something like this can ruin someone.. I had cameras on the bike, I had so many witnesses since the bike same as this was like an Xmas tree. People don't see motorcycles that play music I must have had 40 witness's I was in London. None of those blamed me they saw it all. I was blamed by an upset mother understandably and the police who frankly are total twats and do what they like. The accident wasn't the only thing that upset me and stressed me out, the police did as well and that's for another conversation entirely. I did claim. Against them they should have known better. They had all the evidence in their possession and the bike gave them the speed etc..... they made stupid arguments like trying to tell the court that I didn't pull over into the bus lane on the left which was just so ridiculous because of bus was coming like I'm going to pull over and get hit by a bus and kill myself. At the end of the day I just couldn't do anything about my situation I'm breaking wouldn't have done anything either it was completely unavoidable she didn't run in front of me she ran into the side of me she hit me I didn't hit her. I don't really think it's understandable that people will support her over me because it was clearly her fault and anybody with half a brain with their eyes open could see that. The mother wasn't there so wasn't able to judge and the police don't even get me started. Drive safely pay attention you never know when something or someone stupid might do something like this and you never know when someone is going to try and ruin your life as a result. Piece x
The mental devastation that happens to others after a death in a road traffic accident must not be underestimated. Two completely separate local accidents in the last few years near here resulted in the wife of one victim and the husband of the other taking their own lives, such tragedy as both had children of school age. Thank you for another great analysis video Ashley.
Thank you for highlighting the impact that these incidents can have on everybody involved or otherwise. It takes a lot of courage to share stories about accidents and the effect it has on people’s mental health and the knock on effects. Appreciate all your work and efforts Ashley!
It is totally true and be aware that it doesn't have to be that serious to cause a mental impact. When I was 14, my mother knocked over a girl from my school when she ran across the road. The impact knocked on to the bonnet and she hit her head on the windscreen in front of me. This memory is as sharp in my mind now as it was nearly 50 years ago, even though the girl was only scratched and bruised, and at school the next day. On a side note, who at Edinburgh City Council thought that planter was a good idea?
You could almost be describing the exact accident I witnessed when I was 14, one of the girls I was walking with spotted a friend across the road and just ran out - and yes, I recall it as clear as day even 33 years on. I still sometimes think about the poor lady driving - she was completely in shock. The girl was fine, back at school that afternoon.
It's not a planter. It's a stopper for runaway trams to keep them out of the construction site. Probably solid concrete (but they may have used a planter for that purpose). And I wouldn't blame the city council or the transit agency, but the person who thought it a good idea to even fabricate concrete blocks or planters of that height. That thing wouldn't just be a problem in that spot. But thinking about its purpose for only the time it took to write this comment: why do you even need a stopper there for the unlikely event that a tram would have powered its way into the construction site? That's kind of on par with wearing an emergency flotation device in a cinema.
@@Pystro I have to admit that I had my doubts it was a planter but hadn't identified it's purpose. Thanks. This is an excellent example external factors. In virtually any RTC, there are a number of factors that coincide to cause the accident. The main factor in this case is clearly the cyclist but the tram stopper is also a significant factor. If it was not there, there is a reasonable chance the accident could have been prevented, Likewise, if the pedestrian had not been there, this would have increased the driver's chance of seeing the cyclist. There will be others but remove any one and the outcome could well be different. In order to learn the full lesson from any accident, these external factors should be identified and considered. The tram stopper in this instance is a big one and feels like it should be at least 30 meters from where it actually is. Anyone from Edinburgh CC reading this?
I would have missed that cyclist. I re-watched the start of clip multiple times (before you pointed out the cyclist) and missed him every time. Thanks for sharing this video. I'll repeat that I learn something every time!
@Cycling God Agreed, I would not have fixated on the pedestrians either. Can't comment on whether I would have noticed the cyclist in real life or not.
A family friend, a lorry driver, was involved in a fatal accident 6 years ago. No blame was attributed to him but it definitely messed him up. He hasn't returned to professional driving and I doubt he ever will. I can only sympathise what he's gone through mentally.
If anyone is interested, this is recorded at York Place, Edinburgh. Having been living in Edinburgh for 7 years, and cycling has been an extremely popular way to commute around the city, especially for students. I have experienced close calls by both driving and cycling in the city. In my opinion, the road is a common space for all road users and it's everyone's responsibility to keep the road safe, one of them is to follow the lights.
What that cyclist did was both criminal and suicidal. If a cyclist wishes to break the law and jump a red light, the "correct" way to do it is to look for traffic and be able to stop. This idiot does not emerge either slowly or by looking to his left. An accident looking for a place to happen. Back in the 70's, my favourite ride was from Kings Buildings to Stockbridge via the Mound, late evening with light traffic. Most significant dangers was wet granite setts the other side of Queen street and that turn onto St Stephen street. Suspect it can't be done anymore.
@@crinolynneendymion8755 "This idiot does not emerge either slowly or by looking to his left" - which makes me think he misread the lights and actually thought he had priority. It was too care-free to be a sneaky red-light jump, in my opinion. I think he was going through the junction thinking he had green (which he didn't)
@@crinolynneendymion8755 I'm intrigued by your idea that there is a "correct" way to jump a red light! The Highway Code applies to ALL road users as it as it has clearly stated on the front cover of many editions, IE: pedestrians, cyclists, horse riders, and mobility scooter users. There are no rules in the Highway Code showing cyclists how to "correctly" jump a red light, a red light is a red light and means STOP! clear and simple, the sooner pedestrians and cyclists understand this and abide by it the better, then maybe innocent motorists as in the clip Ashley has shared with us will stop having to take the blame, and stop feeling guilty and even suicidal for progressing safely through their green light. We ALL have a responsibility to keep our roads and road users safe, therefore we all have a responsibility to abide by the laws, and rules of the road.
@@ianrichardson8150 A reasonable exception might occur when the lights respond to sensors in the road surface designed to detect cars but they might not be sensitive enough to detect cyclists or horses, whilst that was unlikely to be the issue in the video, sometimes it does happen when traffic lights cannot detect the cyclist and won't change from red no matter how long the cyclist waits, and given that the cyclist might not be able to dismount and walk in some circumstances (ie where there is no footway or alternative crossing) it requires the cyclist or road user to be as observant as possible when making their manoeuvre. (I worked in traffic control for a number of years, and many councils don't consider or care that this can occur)
I think it's time we make cyclists ( who dont have a license) do a CBT, as that will give them highway code knowledge, also make sure they know how to ride a bike.
Let's not forget it's not just cars vs. light jumping cyclists. They can also seriously hurt pedestrians, other law-abiding cyclists, and motorcyclists.
Your comment comes across as "car bad". This seems to be the all-too-common attitude of "aggressive" cyclists. I don't know you, you may not be like that, but this video was about a stupid cyclist, there are plenty of other videos about stupid motorists so I think your comment was unnecessary.
@@chrishartley1210 I think you're reading their comment wrong. I've been in a number of situations in London where as a pedestrian I've almost been taken out by light jumping cyclists. The comment is saying it's not just situations with cars where light jumping cyclists is a problem.
As always everyone should follow the rules but picking out cyclists that jump lights seems to ignore the fact that cars doing so present a far greater direct risk to everyone around them. The cyclist in question was an extremely poor road user who rode recklessly and placed himself at risk as well as potentially traumatising others. As has been mentioned though, far more pedestrians are injured by cars being driven recklessly than cyclists doing so.
I had something similar happen recently. Was coming up to a junction. My light was on green. I slowed slightly coming up to the light where there was a crossing. There's a blind spot on the left and I came to within 20 yards of the crossing, a cyclist shot out with no lights whilst wearing headphones. Despite a hard application of the brakes and some last second evasive action from us both, I hit them. Amazingly the cyclist was up on his feet straight away and my car has zero damage. He just bounced off the front on the bumper. His bike was wrecked though. I came running out with my first aid kit but the cyclist didn't want to stick around. Either he knew he was on the wrong or his bike was stolen. I'll never know. I did my due diligence and reported it to the police but with no evidence and no injured party they never got back to me. That was when I decided to get a dashcam.
Good thing you reported it. Imagine the cyclist would have gone straight to the police and reported you for hit and run. Could be really hard to defend against that without a dashcam.
After a close call I chose not to drive without a dashcam. This shut down a claim from a lorry drive who recklessly jumped of a tail lift in front of me.
Good point. I've been dithering about a dashcam for the car and equivalent for cycling where you need front and rear cameras. Now I'm a pensioner, cost becomes more significant and I'm given to understand that budget dashcams are not good enough either due to image, response speed, or memory
Absolutely no chance of spotting that cyclist. Very interested in hearing about that court case in the next video. It's extremely important to ensure that you take out the legal cover in your car insurance, never make a saving on that! I'm from the UK and I was hit from behind in Germany, any lawyer dealing with this type of claim will know precisely what to do, an average motorist will not be able to successfully navigate the process.
The rise in death-wish people, and "No Win, No Fee" solicitors, is why, as a new driver, I make sure to have the legal cover, included in my car insurance - £50 is worth it, in the event of a claim from an ambulance chaser, or crash-for-cash fraudster.
@@johnbooth5199 That legal cover is if you want to claim for more than just the cost of your car. If another party wishes to sue you for everything under the sun your car insurance will still pay for it regardless whether you have legal cover or not.
@Cycling God No way, any driver is scanning the road ahead, there are so many things to be constantly observing directly in line of travel it will take all attention. It looked to me that the oncoming road might have been at an angle, in which the A pillar blocks the view of the cyclist. The view of the dashcam is not the same as the view of the driver.
@@leevfx Always call the police, get all the details you can, call your insurance company there and then telling them what information you have and what else they require. Then make a claim against the cyclist.
I would say waiting at red lights and "our safety" only intersect. The former is not a subset of the latter. Sometimes jumping red lights has zero impact on safety or perhaps even a positive one. It depends. Blindly blasting through, especially amber gambler type jumping, is not smart at all however.
I'm an everyday cyclist and fit and confident enough to mix it in traffic whilst obeying the rules of the road. I never jump lights, would advise other cyclists to do the same and sympathise with anyone who's affected by the aftermath of road collisions. It's fine to criticise cyclists and I think Ashley mainly including here (but not always) offers a good context when doing this. Pre-amble over! I would say however there are understandable reasons why we can get triggered when these criticisms come our way. Often criticism is made in bad faith and even when not intended our prevailing car culture makes it hard for some people to imagine that non-motorised traffic is anything other than an obstacle to their progress. Because cars are the norm on the road it only takes one driver in 100 to think like this for abuse to becomes an everyday experience and this can feel dangerous when you're more exposed on two wheels. One minute we're told get off the road next minute we're told to get off the pavement. We're criticised for wearing specialist cycling gear one day and and criticised for not wearing it the next. We're held to account and punished by motorists because yesterday they saw a teenager doing a wheelie. Essentially it can feel that whatever we do we can't win and there's no correct way to be on two wheels. No wonder we get defensive! Just one last point regarding drop bars. They are absolutely fine in traffic. The advantage is they give you all the hand positions so you ride on the tops to see better or in the drops when a lower centre of gravity/profile helps with stability on a down hill stretch or in gusting /strong headwinds. On longer journeys being able to change hand positions helps with comfort too which has a knock on effect of improving concentration.
@Cycling God Perhaps you like myself are somewhat blessed to have certain attributes that make us less likely to annoy impatient drivers or we maintain a thicker skin? I gained some insight when recovering from sciatica with less strength in my right leg than I'm used to. It meant I was a little slower getting off the mark, was less able to accelerate in and out of spaces and was generally a little more wobbly and less confident. I felt more vulnerable, was more sensitive to and in probability did objectively attract more hostility on the road. I know many women and people of different ages and abilities have different experiences from myself and do feel bullied away from riding. Just a thought.
@Cycling God I'm a cycling mortal who happens to be at least somewhat privileged in terms of skillset, experience, health and looking a bit hard and as though I could chase a car down (I'm not and I wouldn't btw! ) Nevertheless your anecdote denies other peoples' reality or worse frames it as 'if you're not as capable as me then of course drivers are gonna abuse you'. I have a few anecdotes of my own from 30 years of cycling up, down and around the UK as an adult. Not that long ago I had to shelter behind a lamp post as a coked-up driver mounted a kerb to try and run me down for literally no other reason than he'd had an argument with someone on a bike, was frustrated with traffic and wanted to kill a cyclist. I was simply sitting in primary, waiting my turn in a queue of traffic! I swear the only reason it got to court was he damaged the lamp post! I was a witness! Of all the things the incident that shook the most seems like nothing in comparison... some snot-nosed police officer caught my eye and said to a colleague 'I effin hate effin cyclists' . I was sat in a park with my missus, our bikes lying on the ground beside us .
@@heyasasha "next minute we're told to get off the pavement" - well it is illegal to cycle on the pavement unless it is signposted otherwise, with a maximum £500 fine, so yes, do get off the pavement
@@Cycling-God "I have a very dim view of most cyclists cycling with the exception of the lycra clad mob" And you're an advanced driver, jesus wept, did you get it out of a xmas cracker!! That's such a narrow minded viewpoint, judgemental and quite frankly so massivel out of kilter with reality! Kids on bikes are never an issue as they're utterly predictable in their unpredictability, as are ladies on sit up and begs, the elderly/infirm, the teen tearaway etc. you'd know this if your advanced driving was up to snuff. It's the lycra clad as you label them that act out of line of expectation more often. I ride full carbon team issue bike/expensive clothing as well as raggy t and walking shorts on my flat bar commuter. M experience over near 40 ears on the road is that close passes (on other cyclists) by roadies is common, risk taking is insane and egos are massive. Either way, the hazard is you in a motor 99.99% of the time, that's the hazard OU present to others simpl b being in a mass around 1.5metric tonnes travelling at speeds that mean a huge amount of kinetic energy if there's a collision. That's why I take a dim view of people who state they are advanced drivers but fail to recognise their responsibilities are arogant to point out the failings of the slowest groups on the road (aside from pedestrians) and how motorists are the biggest hazard to human life on the roads, not people on cycles.
I did not see the cycle it’s until you pointed him out. Been driving for almost 50 years, few accidents btw. Imo, the very large road signs coupled with the large yellow thing completely blocked my view. If I was driving I would have had many potential dangers for me to worry about, including cyclists jumping their red lights. However, I don’t think I could have avoided him. Great post, as usual. I learn and relearn so much from you. Many thanks. I think this is a great advertisement for drivers to install dash cams facing front and rear. Solves so many problems with police and insurance companies. Perhaps a future post may be useful on dash cam use? Many thanks.
I will be honest and say I was recently moving through these roadworks quicker than I should have because I was struggling to navigate to an appt I was late for. Definitely made me think.
I learned the lesson of roadworks speed limits maybe 10 years ago. I was driving south on the M4 (the one in Russia), and a bridge was being repaired, the temporary sign read 40 kph. I went onto the bridge at 130, which is how fast everybody drives on a motorway (110 limit+20 naughty threshold). Asphalt was removed from the brigde, which created a downward ramp at the beginning and an upward one at the end, the bridge was about 50 meters long. I hit the brakes after the first ramp, and released before the second slope. The car got properly airborne. Everything was fine, apart from a many bricks shut. I know it has little to do with roadworks in Ednbra, but it demostrates that there's a reason for slowing down in roadworks areas.
What you say about the mental and psychological impact of fatal collusions is so true. It is always on the forefront of my mind regarding mobile phone usage. It is bad enough for a driver to deal with innocently killing another road user, but I can't even begin to imagine the feelings of guilt if a driver killed someone because they were using their phone at the time.
Ion Onut, the lorry driver who killed 3 people in a crash on the A1(M) near Durham while he was playing with his mobile, has made videos about the effect it had on him. It's clear from watching them that he is devastated by what he did and that it will haunt him for the rest of his life.
I live in Essex and pedestrians are a headache now . There seems to be an obsessive desire to wear black clothes and wander across roads in darkness, and as your vid shows and crossing green signal pedestrian crossings in poor lighting. Another problem we have are illegal E-scooter riders with the same MO ,all black outfit on black scooters and no lighting riding white lines on roads.
Most don’t care…. Trust me. I was on scene of a fatal accident (recovery driver) as police etc where on scene dealing with drivers. One driver on route to hospital passed away in the ambulance and a driver was arrested and he was more interested in finishing his phone call than the fact the officer said “you’re under arrest for death by dangerous driving” I would instantly die inside if I know someone had died because of my actions
I mean these are the same people who despite knowing the real risk is killing someone STILL make the decision to use their phone when driving.. am not certain when your on that level of sociopath that actually killing someone would bother you too much.. tis why I think the punishments need to be more severe.. these are dangerous people that society does not need
The rudeness and lack of compassion of many drivers or riders is bewildering! In the United States this is a serious problem in the trucking industry. Many truckers have the mindset that they are the professional and everyone else is borrowing the roads from them. This mindset is creating very hazardous conditions for everyone. I for one am sick of this behavior. Thank you for pointing out how ones behavior effects everyone on the road. I was first at the scene thirty five years ago in Kansas City Kansas, when a young man couldn’t stop on a snowy road in his four by four truck. He never got out though not injured to help. I struggled to stop her bleeding and failed. I returned home very cold and covered in blood and in tears. The anger I feel every time I think of this is overwhelming. Angry because he didn’t think of the fact he couldn’t stop any faster just because he could get his vehicle going. Angry that he didn’t even try to help. Angry because I wasn’t prepared for such a situation. The responsibility of driving or riding on a public road is everyone’s concern. Being prepared is essential.
A similar thing that might be worth covering is when there's a pedestrian crossing and the other lane has cars queuing either side of it. I always slow to a crawl knowing a pedestrian obscured from my view might cross without looking left. A majority of cars in these circumstances seem seem to drive over crossings without slowing down. It always sends shivers up my spine when I see it.
Indeed, a couple of times I've had to shout a warning to pedestrians crossing where a driver was going past in the other lane at speed, one looked quite angry at me until the speeding car missed them by inches.
@@tinakerr8163 I had fourteen pedestrians of various ages using a crossing in front of me not one was taking the blindest bit of notice of their surroundings!
@@marklittler784 This was warned about when they changed the road rules. Unfortunately nobody listened, sadly due to the way politics works it will take decades of research before we even begin to look at the possibility it was a mistake to remove the onus of pedestrians to give a way to giant metal boxes that can kill them.
True they might not be slowing down but the particular type of vehicles at the crossing might not be obstructing their view very much, they are probably paying far more attention at the crossing even though they are not slowing though.
He wasn’t on the hoods where you have perfect brake access on drop bar bikes. That’s suicidal on any urban roads. Never mind when jumping a red! Nice message to finish with 👍🙏
Hoods or drops, I always have my fingers on or near the levers (Shimano 105). That cyclist was unprepared with his fingers wrapped around the handle bars.
@@mintywebb I find I have better control and leverage from the hoods. Secondly I always position my hands on the brakes when approaching busy intersections, 100's of ms really matter
I just can't fathom the headspace of cyclists, or anyone for that matter, jumping a red light. It wouldn't even cross my mind to do it. Absolutely insane.
As a regular red light running cyclist, I definitely can. It’s not selfishness. It’s knowing that no matter WHAT action you take, be it waiting or not, you’re still screwed most of the time. Sometimes it’s better to just go for it and deal with the consequences.
As a small motorcyclist I’ve had to jump a red before a few times because I weigh under 160kg with my bike and that’s not enough to trigger them to change if I’m the only one there. Sitting through several light cycles for 10-15 minutes with no end in sight though is what I would consider the lights being non-functional.
@@gregc9344 In that instance I'd utilize the cyclist's ever-present ability to morph into a pedestrian, and cross on foot. Crossing on the road, you obey the traffic signals. There's simply no ambiguity, no room for debate; it's fundamental to the highway code & road safety.
After watching so many of your anlysis I knew exactly why the cyclist was missed. I also was analysing where I was looking when I first watched the clip, I was focused on the pedestrains crossing the road and if I was driving I would have definetly not seen the cyclist.
Yep, same. My first thought "those pedestrians are just going to walk out in front of someone" - assuming the person sending the clip would be a witness to a cyclist ploughing into them. And then BOOM! that cyclist comes out of nowhere.
I’m a regular commuter by cycling. I commute most days to work by bike and am quite bothered how many cyclists represent us. I think it’s really good as usual you show these videos with you (as always) excellent analysis. My personal pet pieve is when cyclists change lane without “mirror check”, blindly moving out without knowing what they’re turning into. As always, great video Ashley. Keep up the good work.
Even worse than that is the cyclists who weave on and off the pavement as it suits them, often without a "mirror check" same as you say for changing lanes. I mean if I got £1 for every time I've had to tell a cyclist to "get off the fucking pavement" while walking to/from the station on the way to/from work, I wouldn't have to go to work at all and deal with these selfish and moronic cyclists
Just over 8 years ago I was forced to emergency stop when child ran out from between vehicles. He wasn't injured, but I suffered injuries when the car behind me crashed into my vehicle as I held the brakes staring face to face with a terrified child. I was almost physically recovered when I was blindsided joining a queue of traffic on a motorway filter lane 8 months later. Ever since then, have suffered from recurring pain and PTSD. This has affected my family and employability. I will be medicated for life as a result - even though my original actions saved a life.
The drivers head is much further back than the dashcam position which is why dashcams view don't get blocked by the A pillar. Watch it again and imagine an A pillar at the right hand side, less view of the road to the right especially with pedestrians on the side of the road obscuring the view.
Great video as usual, the only thing to disagree with is your comment about dropped handlebars on bikes in urban roads. These are absolutely fine for riding in urban situations, you just need to ride on the hoods with your fingers already on the levers so you are ready to brake straight away. This cyclist did not do this, and his lack of skill meant he missed the levers. I am glad he was not seriously injured, but he needs to rethink his approach to cycling, stopping at all red lights and proceedingscarefully at junctions, or else he needs to get on the bus.
Watching that on a phone, absolutely did not see them first time. I think in real life I may have, they did have a flashing light, but with the amount of people crossing directly in front of me at the traffic lights, there's a good chance I would have tunnel visioned on the pedestrians. I think those pedestrians crossing actually might have made the cyclist think he was safe to go. That planter location is utterly terrible though.
I think they put the planter there with the purpose to stop cars from using the tram lane ie as a 'safety' feature to avoid traffic chaos. It would not have been an issue had the cyclist not jumped the red light.
I don't disagree about red meaning stop, and the issue is entirely the cyclist jumping the red, I'm merely commenting on the point that there is a possibility that the cyclist saw people crossing, and assumed that the crossing was active, and not the car lane... Effectively, the pedestrians have walked in front of a live lane, and he looks like he's trusted they also haven't jumped lights. Rather ironic, really.
@@corroded I don't think that's a good excuse as anyone who knows how traffic lights work should know if your lights on red theirs in on green, most likely. not to mention he must have seen cars moving along that lane before the peds crossed whilst his light was still on red so common sense would indicate that is the currently live lane. Unless the cyclist was not paying attention to the lane before he reached it. Also crossing into a lane from that position without even slowing down is just recklessness and i really hope he does not do the same when using a larger vehicle. IMO crossing any busy lane regardless of if you think its active or not should require you to at least slow down enough to see down the lane without driving out into the middle of it. I guess this is a form of modern natural selection but it's a shame it forces ordinary people to be the killers.
Just a comment on the drop handlebars, in themselves they are not an issue in traffic or other difficult situations, they are designed to allow comfortable covering of the brakes and change gears without having to move your hands and to be comfortable while doing so. They also allow for hands to be in different positions to allow for other way of riding, e.g. sprinting or climbing, but these positions do take your hands away from the brakes and should never be adopted in a situation where you may need the brakes. While a lot of it comes down to personal preference, with proper usage I feel drop handlebars can provide better control over the bike as you can actually apply more brake pressure or finer control of brake pressure. The rider in the clip had his hands down on the drops and away from the brakes while going through heavy traffic and while going through a red light. To me this shows additional negligence from the rider as they need the time to move their hands before they can even start applying the brakes and they even managed to fumble it.
Absolutely bang on with that comment. I ride 6000 miles a year commuting on a bike and many more riding with my cycling club, all with drop handlebars. Never have an issue with them as I cover the brakes especially in traffic. It's down to the user to use then properly, in the right hands they pose no problem.
100% agree it is up to the person to adjust their riding to position according to situtation. Was the cyclist in the video using the hoods for a more upright position to increase awareness not that it matters someone who jumps red lights probably does not care about being aware. it Could have been one of the safest city style bike bars if they use them wrong and do not care for their own saftey there is no helping people like that. I love my drop handle bars except replacing the bar tape.
Great spot on hand position. Why do that in traffic? Then again why jump a red light…. I’ve no issue with drop handlebars on the road, it’s easy enough to both brake and change gear especially if gripping the hoods..
CRAP!! drop handlebars are used for acceleration and nothing else,, with upright bars you have better control, better visibility and the brake levers are far easier to use.
Great video as always, and thank you for sharing some of the stories that so easily get overlooked in such tragedies. It's not an easy subject to discuss, especially when it's concerning people close to you. Being involved in an incident like that can and will affect everyone involved - not just the cyclist, but also the driver and potentially any other witnesses (such as the errant pedestrians). One of my earliest memories is from shortly after a pedestrian stepped out in front of a bus, and my dad and others went to their aid. I don't remember the event itself, only a few things shortly after, but I have little doubt about the lasting impression it's left on me since. I think the planter itself also needs to be addressed. I'm strongly in favour of more greenery in built-up areas for a number of reasons, but I have a real pet peeve of restricted visibility at junctions, especially where it's caused by avoidable design (or worse still, seemingly as a deliberate strategy to force drivers to slow down further before they enter the junction). In this case, I presume that the planter's there to stop people going down the tram line while it's being installed (either by mistake or to skip queues), but it's quite clearly an inappropriate height, and that was certainly a contributing factor in the incident. In my opinion, it should be removed not only as a direct result of this incident, but also to prevent a more serious one in future.
Definitely easy to miss that, not to mention the ambient light too, it would have looked much darker than the camera makes it out to be and sadly, most road incidents occur during the times of dawn and dusk as our eyes are adjusting from dark to light and light to dark respectively. All the factors Ashley pointed out in addition to this just all contribute to, in this cyclists case, complete ignorance of what could have been totally avoidable if the cyclist adhered to road safety regulations and principles.
The blame also lies with whoever placed that circular planter, where it blocks the view across the corner. The cyclist not only jumped a red light but he failed to recognise the reduced visibility due to the roadworks and the planter. He was in effect riding out of a blind exit into moving traffic, suicidal behaviour.
Possible complication from the box junction, but the exit to the right (from cyclist’s point of view) was clear so the cyclist should have checked for traffic from the left. Maybe the exit was blocked a few seconds earlier, so the cyclist assumed that no one would be coming through from his left? But it’s stupid to assume something like that, when your life is on the line…
Forget my vulnerability, I just don't want my bike to get damaged when I can prevent it. Consequently the care and awareness that comes with it saves my skin from getting butchered.
Such brilliant, calm and analytical videos. Easily the best content of its kind on YT. I love the fact you are non-partisan which I’ve never seen anywhere else. It’s poor road users who are at fault in any given situation, not the particular vehicle they happen to be controlling; terrible Nissan Micra drivers are almost certainly terrible cyclists. Also, as a IAM driver and cyclist there is always more to learn and watching your vidoes helps me stay safe and helps me keep other people around me safe. Keep up the fantastic work!
Very good and eye opening video. Thank you for sharing what must have been difficult accounts to relive to help us understand these long term impacts. Brought me a new perspective, that's for sure.
Several very important messages there Ashley. Serious incidents on our roads cause ripples that we aren’t always aware of or sometimes care to ignore. If we all chose to drop the blinkers and put ourselves in the shoes of others more often this would be a safer, better world.
Can you also imagine the blame game that could have followed without the dash cam footage. My daughter works with horses and we support a campaign for horse riders to not only wear Hi Vis, but to carry a headcam. It's amazing how many more drivers slow down for the horses when they see the headcam. As you say, the effects of these avoidable incidents can be catastrophic to both parties.
hi-vis does bugger all and is victim blaming nonense, it takes the responsibilit awa from those presenting the harm. your anecdote regards headcams is simply that. it hasn't changed a damn thing regards safety outcomes and KSIs on the roads
@@zbf5h89ftb Hmmm. 1 - That cycle lane is not segregated - it is a widish strip of red paint on the road across the junction. 2 - There is full visibility from behind the Give Way line sitting in a car, as the pavements bend out. 3 - For creeping out there is a full 4m of nearside vehicle lane, so it is easily possibly without completely blocking the cycle lane. So no conflict at all is necessary. I'd suggest that "cyclist had obviously been going very fast" and "cyclist had no doubt been flying down the cycling lane" is relying too heavily on assumptions. I have no information on the precise sequence of events, whether the driver pulle dout suddenly etc, but on the charge, I'd suggest perhaps Driving without Due Care since visibility is good and there was no need whatever for the cycle lane to be blocked by a right-turner.
Happy New Year, Ashley. Good video. A very chilling yet vital reminder that, no matter how careful you are, some accidents cannot be avoided. I hope the driver is okay.
I had a very similar thing happen to me while driving a Landrover. Fortunately, I saw him, stood on the brake and missed him by millimetres. I was left, stopped still, with my heart pounding while the cyclist looked back laughing.
Back in 2011 I was cycling straight on, a car overtook me turned left taking me out, I was badly injured but survived, the police did not prosecute but as I’m in the ctc my insurance claimed off the motorist. This has left a lasting impression on me and I no longer cycle in towns and often get off at junctions. Best wishes Jim thanks for all you’re videos.
Has a cyclist and Driver with years of experience, and I know I have good observational awareness, I'd have been lucky to spot the bike. I could see he had lights but I could not tell if they were on. That's my biggest pet hate. Has it goes, I make a point of riding the same as I drive, obeying the same rules in the same way. I'm tired of this war between road users. I just want to get from A to B safely. I want us all to be safe. One day, many years ago, I had a postman jump out of his van that had sliding doors, into the back end of the lorry I was driving. He sadly died. Only 21 yrs old. It's why I'm hyper observant has it had a long lasting effect on me. I still can see him in my mirror. I know it wasn't my fault but I could of predicted the possibility if I knew then what I know now. So many people drive without much thought. However, as Ashley says, It should be a mental exercise every time.
Very very sorry indeed to hear the other examples you quoted at the end there Ashley. Until I heard this, I never realised just how much a collision could affect an innocent party. Your message should be something that is repeated regularly on national TV but unfortunately we no longer have Public Service Announcements. How I wish they would bring those back. Your message is also a reminder to all of us regular motorized vehicle drivers to act responsibly and drive to the highest possible standard each and every time we drive.
Lorry drivers have extensive training on cyclists. Cyclists have none. So why not insist that there are short lessons on a loop in cycle shops? ie. Don't go up the inside. However for red lights, cycling on the pavement, illegal motor bikes [e variety] there is only one solution. The police getting up off their arses and doing some work.
@@mintywebb The problem I have is with cyclists and illegal e-bikes. A local junction is running at 1,200 offences an hour, £1.2 million in fines going to waste. See gandalf's revenge on my channel.
Hi Ashley, thank you for analysing and sharing this video. Unfortunately there are many cyclists who don’t understand the rules or the road, and consequently can’t use them safely. As a cyclist without a license I binge watched all your videos before getting on the road, and even then made many mistakes that I still kick myself over! Maybe this situation could have been prevented if some form of training and licensing were to be required for cyclists. I don’t know how I could live with myself if I killed someone else with my riding, many cyclists today aren’t thinking of other people when they run a red light…
I see this happening all too frequently around Manchester amongst the food delivery cyclists. Recently, made a trip to Copenhagen where cycling is commonplace around the city and the infrastructure is very safe for every road user. Britain lags so far behind its counterparts in creating a road infrastructure that is suitable for every user.
And our cyclists attitude and approach to using the road lags far behind it’s counterpart’s in other countries … I was visiting London this weekend and I was totally appalled by the cyclists especially the food delivery cyclists who have no regards whatsoever for other road users and pedestrians and most of the ones I saw were on electric bikes and moving much faster than normal especially with a heavy cumbersome load on their backs … also the amount of people on electric scooters which are supposed to be illegal for use on public roads ….. I was especially appalled by one guy going along on the wrong side of the road into oncoming traffic … what a total Knobhead …. They need taking off the roads ….
3rd world GB 🇬🇧 When it comes to its outta date Victorian road infrastructure.., but ignoring Red light and not wearing any bright reflective clothing. Either way he got what he deserved. What an idiot 💩💩💩👊👊👊👊
I passed my test a year and a half ago and I am thinking of giving up my car. Driving is so hard, between pedestrians who cross when they shouldn't and especially in the dark, dodging potholes and dealing with tailgating due to the audacity to be doing 30 in a 30 area. Driving is too much anxiety and it doesn't really save that much time, as it is difficult to find parking in a lot of places.
Completely understand. I learned to drive in my mid 30s, and I was astonished to find so many angry drivers getting enraged at me for driving at 30mph on a road where the maximum speed is 30mph. Very frustrating.
Hi Tanya, I understand your feelings. Consider this, from this point on you can only improve your driving skills, you seem concerned about the dangers of driving which makes you safer since many people aren’t screwed on
It's coming up to 3 years now since I passed my test and honestly I had the same as you when I just passed (and some people still do it to me now). Although what I recommend is ignore them and try not to let them get to you. They'll probably overtake you eventually once they've had enough of antagonising you, but you're doing the right thing by keeping to the speed limit. Just keep calm and make sure you're extra careful to make up for the stupidity of the driver behind you 🙂 At the end of the day, if you have to emergency stop and they collide into you, it's their own fault not yours.
So roadworks, dusk, pedestrians slowly crossing on a green light and a stupidly placed overly large planter. So I don't think I would have avoided that myself. Would be interested in a video on the effectiveness of street lights these days given I was back in Swansea over Xmas and the council appears to have decided to turn large blocks of them off which led me to missing a couple of exits. Also a comparison of the light output of the old orange sodium lights to the modern led. To how dazzling car headlights are these days especially when the street lights are turned off.
I cycle to work in London and like watching videos like this to help keep myself safe. As a vulnerable road user it's important that I have ways of keeping myself safe because it doesn't have to be my fault for me to be hurt badly. I try to treat everything moving as a risk for myself and the motorists
I iive in Edinburgh and i have cycled this area many times, its changed over the years, we have had construction projects in this area due to the tramworks for the last 14 years, there used to be a roundabout there. What you see in this video will likely change several times more.
I had a cyclist run into the back of my car while I was stationery at a junction. It’s awful seeing them on the ground, police, ambulance all turned up. Guy was Ok. But then he tried to claim off my insurance for a damaged bike, grazed palms, ripped clothing and time off work. It is fortunate that I had good witnesses and he got shut down, and I suggested the insurance company pursue him for fraud. But even that minor incident put me off driving for weeks, it was months before I got confident again.
I had one go in to the side of me at a junction, their fault. I got out and had a go at them and they just left the scene. I never reported it as I knew I'd get most of the hassle even though I did nothing wrong.
I sometimes feel, due to the positioning of the dash cam, its likely got a clearer view of the road, whilst the driver may not. The soonest possible time the cycle would have been seen was probably as they disappeared behind the yellow bollard, on the road. just an unfortunate circumstance to be in.
That could well be the case, and it's quite possible for a hazard approaching from the side to be hidden by the A pillar for seconds at a time. Always bob/weave your head when checking. But I think most of us would just assume that the lights are green so we can proceed.
Rewatching this clip multiple times and reading the comments it’s possible that the cyclist goes when the left only signal turns green, something we’ve seen many times on this channel from other road users and with all the changes from the roadworks it could explain a lapse of judgment, we only have the drivers viewpoint to go off on but to be clear they had very little chance of avoiding the collision due to the numerous obstacles blocking their view
It is a proper nightmare junction, even for cars. The lanes don't follow a natural layout, going around where the cyclist is coming from. And there is even the filter left light on the right side of the road, which doesn't help. Many times you see brake lights coming off in the middle lane when that filter left comes on, only for the drivers to put them back on again
@@richardhall5489 What can I say? I find cycling into oncoming traffic is not the choice of a rational person so before I condemn them to the nuthouse I’d like to know if the road layout had any bearing on their behaviour because this could happen again and the next person might not be so lucky
Good video again Ashley. The car driver had no chance. I saw the cyclist on the first replay just before you pointed him out but not on the original. Subsequently, even when you point him out he is very difficult to see. You are absolutely right that the pedestrians were the hazard to watch. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the two road users, I think the town planners could have done better with the sight lines, perhaps the planter could have been a bit lower (half the hight?).
This reminds me of a situation when I was driving home from work in a busy city centre in the dark at rush hour. Two pedestrians ran across a pedestrian crossing without waiting for the lights to turn red (one was chasing the other). They were both wearing dark clothes and I was travelling at approximately 30mph. I narrowly missed them both by a matter of a couple of metres and would've had no chance to stop if they'd ran across the road a second later. I often think about what might've happened if I (and they) had not been so lucky.
Jesus, thats an eye opener, how quickly multiple people pretty much having their life ruined It only took 10 seconds, and stuff like this doesn't have an "undo" or "retry" button 💔
It took far less. I counted 140 frames from the first in which I can see the cyclist to the impact. That's just over four seconds. [watched the video again - can just about see the cyclist before the car turns left]
Who thought putting a large planter right at the edge of a major junction was a good idea? It's the perfect size to obscure cross traffic and almost eliminates the chance of someone reacting to avoid an incident like this before it is too late. If that planter was not there, It's likely that both the driver and the cyclist could have taken evasive action sooner which may prevent an impact entirely. City planners need to know that people will jump red lights, and almost completely blocking your view of someone who may be running a red is a significant oversight!
@@zbf5h89ftb what about the innocent people who are harmed by the red light runner? The red light runner is often not the only one affected in the event of a collision... Blocking someone's view of a potential red light runner is stupid regardless of how you look at it.
I had a terrible experience like this. My eyes were on one cyclist who ran a red light in front of me as I was going through a junction who then started to turn around back towards me. Because I was looking at him, I did not see the second cyclist behind my A-pillar who collided with my vehicle. Worst of all, the two cyclists ran that red light in front of a police car sat one vehicle behind the lights, so they were instantly on the scene and they must have saw everything that happened but they claimed that the cyclists went through on orange and that it was more likely that I had jumped the lights! They took a bodycam video statement from me in which I clearly stated all the facts including the positioning of the police vehicle, but then the officer forced me to sign a less detailed written statement on pain of being told that if I didn't, they would have to take me to a police station to take a written statement from me. They also told me that the cyclists didn't blame me and weren't going to make a claim, and that it was 'pointless to make a claim because they don't have insurance'. Lo and behold, the cyclist made a personal injury claim against me, so I had to make a counter-claim. I tried to get the bodycam statement from the police, and even wrote to the IPCC about it, who told the Met to investigate it, who said that because I had given a written statement, the body cam statement was no longer necessary and deleted! The personal injury claim is being handled by my insurers, who say that I don't have a good chance of defence because apparently even if they ran a red light, it looks like I should have been more cautious. I do now have a dash cam, but sometimes I wonder if it would have made a blind bit of difference. If you are interested in looking into this, I am happy to share all the details, Ashley. Your video really resonated with my experience and I appreciate it very, very much.
Dropped handle bars are fine if you're graced with a brain cell or 2. Personaly i have 3, and the spare one left after breathing and pedaling means 1 can keep at least one finger covering the brake when there are potential hazards that may require an urgent change of speed so you (in general) can't over brake and lock up your front wheel and by the time you don't miss lever with the rest of your fingers you can apply oodles of squeezy goodness to the lever and the nicely deformed front tire should be able to take it.. although even that wouldn't have saved that tool.
While I fully agree with most of what you said, I'll have to contradict you regarding dropped handlebars - as long as the bike is adjusted to fit the rider, it's no less safe than straight handlebars (where the brake levers can also be adjusted for too much reach!). The brake levers should be easily reachable both from the drops and the hoods. In dense traffic like this, I'd generally prefer my hands (and eyes!) being a bit higher up, so I'd likely use the hoods, but it shouldn't affect the ability to stop. Also - who decided to put that planter there?! That's about as close to deliberately provoking accidents as I've ever seen city planners come.
As a racing cyclist of 40 years, I've stayed alive by abiding by red lights, amongst other things. I disagree that drop bars are inherently dangerous. That comment is disingenuous. At the very least. I agree with the comment above, I'd have been riding on the hoods ( I find it easier to brake and change gears there anyway).
@@billyskoda6839 well, yes, being somewhere at a time you shouldn't be is a reliable way to get hurt. I don't think anyone seriously doubts that, though I never cease to be amazed by just how good people are at ignoring that fact.
Totally agree. I own and ride flat-bar and dropped handlebars, and there is no difference. Regardless if you ride on the hoods or drops, my fingers are covering the levers at all times. I have Shimano 105 which work well. That rider was too careless in every aspect.
@@konradc12 I've got a decent selection of bikes with just about any shape of handlebar and brake configuration out there - the only one that has a seriously increased braking distance is the triathlon bike and that's mostly due to how far forward the centre of gravity is (ahead of the cranks!). Other than that, the bike will almost certainly lose traction long before any difference in the brakes becomes relevant.
So true and so very sad about the effect it has on people. A friend’s wife was driving past Stonehenge (the slip road that has now been removed and grassed over). A tourist slipped off the steep bank along the fence line around Stonehenge and fell into the road just in front of her car. She didn’t have time to stop in time, ran into them and killed them. She was traumatised by it and hasn’t driven since and has panic attacks. Clearly not saying it was the tourists fault, it was an accident. just that car drivers are people too and emotional trauma ti them can be overlooked
I underestimated the effect of this kind of trauma after my partner was a passenger in a car that struck a young cyclist who had pulled out on to a busy dual carriageway. The initial impact was by the vehicle traveling in front but his body was deflected onto the car my wife was in. The man’s remains tore apart and were caught up in the wheel arch, front bumper and undertray. A truly horrific scene for my wife and other people involved. She has never got over it some 15 years later, her whole state of mind is one of pessimism and total aversion to any perception of risk. We very rarely travel long distances by car and she is an incredibly nervous passenger on the shortest of journeys. I always felt she would get better with time but unfortunately not. Post traumatic stress from traffic collisions is not always obvious and the effects can be far reaching. One minute gained by jumping a red light, excessive speed or poor overtake can cost a lifetime of misery and distress.
Going to prefix this with the fact that I'm a very avid cyclist. But it's very nice to see a calm, critical analysis of an incident and to explain the effect it has had to the driver who was involved through no fault of their own. It's individuals like this who give us law abiding cyclists a bad name and mean I get regularly victimised on the road by aggressive drivers.
I agree on drop bar brakes being awkward in some areas. There is an option to add some inline bar brakes that takes approx 15 minutes and I have those on my road bike. Anyone interested lookup 'crosstop brake levers' as an example. They are an alternative to the drop brakes and do not replace them. I live in a busy Northern seaside town and I think they've saved pedestrian collisions many times. For the rest of the video cyclists do need to take responsibility for red light jumping and I say this as someone who puts in a lot more miles on my bike than in my car.
I can back up the comments about the harm and impact that these people have on others. My stepmother was hit by a motorcyclist travelling at over 110mph and high on cannabis - killed himself on impact. She got dragged through the courts, made to feel guilty, tried to kill herself - all with absolutely zero consideration about how she felt about it from 'official' sources. Absolutely outrageous and has made me lose all faith in the courts for anything such as this. All because of the actions of someone who shouldn't have even been on the road at the time, let alone doing the speed they were. More than anything these are the reasons why I try and drive as safely, and as defensively as possible - because even if I 'was in the right', it's just not worth the hassel.
Great video, Ashley. I do hope that cyclist gets prosecuted. Cyclists are notorious for ignoring red lights and most times it seems that the authorities cannot be bothered.
I think the cyclist made a mistake here. They didn't purposefully ride through on red, but were confused by the temporary road layout due to the road works.
I suggest that everybody blaming the cyclist should take a look at the junction from their POV on google streetview. It's not clear that the cyclist has deliberately jumped the lights. I'm not able to share a link, but the cyclist is heading north along the B901 crossing York Place, and is next to the Conan Doyle pub. There are three lanes of traffic going left, straight over and right. The right turn lane is already separated from the left and straight on lanes. Going straight over actually entails a slight left kink, but for cyclists there is a painted lane which bends quite sharply left then right to cross the tram tracks at a safe angle. The three lanes are separately controlled by different lights, but the layout of the lights is very confusing. For the cyclist sat in the ASL, the two lights up ahead appear to refer to the straight across and right turn lanes, but in fact refer to the left turn and straight across lanes. The left turn lane is controlled by a light positioned to the right hand side of the straight over lane, pointing leftwards towards the straight over lane. If you watch the video closely, the cyclist sets off at the same time as a car which then turns left. Ashley said that they filtered and then jumped the lights, but actually our very first view of the cyclist at 1:04 shows them stationary. So it seems the light controlling the left turn has shown green, and the cyclist has mistakenly read this as a green signal to go straight across. Normally, there would be plenty of other clues to highlight this mistake. Having, the cyclist is forced to look downwards to follow the cycle lane and avoid getting tangled in the tram tracks. Then the giant planter is obscuring their view of the traffic crossing their path. Finally, if they saw the pedestrians crossing, it would have seemed to be another cue to confirm that their way was clear. I think this interpretation makes far more sense than to assume that the cyclist deliberately jumped the lights, then knowingly rode blindly across a live lane. The cyclist was confused by the terrible traffic light setup, made a mistake which was compounded by the dreadful junction design. This junction is a serious accident waiting to happen and a large part of the blame must lie with the council.
Hey, I saw your reply to mine. After reading what you had to say, I would agree with it for the most part. I suppose the confusion with the lights would depend on where the cyclist was looking, the set of lights at the stop sign are pretty apparent and should not of caused confusion, however the advance set of lights look as though they are signalling one lane to the right of where they actually are (the left turn only light is pointing to the straight on lane, and the straight on (and right turn) light could be perceived as pointing toward the right hand lane, so I see where you are coming from there. In Edinburgh pedestrians dart out in front of vehicles and jaywalk all the time so for a local Edinburgh road user this wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) be an indication on what the traffic was doing. As I alluded to in my comment though, I fully agree that the junction design is horrendous. It started off as a awkward junction, then they retrofitted some of it to be a one way system, then they retrofitted it again for the tram tracks, and 9 years later it is still a construction site. and on top of that someone decided to put a massive planter that is bigger than the cars in the middle of it to mark that the track was not in use... Edinburgh City Council are truly a breed of their own (they are notorious for just doing things without asking the city or thinking through the consequences). I still hold the opinion that the cyclist is at least partially to blame for not appropriately assessing the situation (whether it be due to distraction or inexperience) but the junction itself, and those responsible for the state its in definitely did not help in the slightest. One thing I would like to advocate en lieu of this is that cyclists can dismount and travel on foot as pedestrians if need be, so if you ever need to cross an incredibly busy road or overly complex junction, it may be safer to dismount when you are able to and use the pedestrian crossings to overcome the obstacle.
Assuming confusion with the lights, would you still be saying they were blameless if it was a motorist instead of a cyclist? A motorists in this situation would likely be charged with “driving without due care and attention”. Is there a cycling equivalent of that charge?
@@thomasnichol5127, I'm not saying they're blameless, but I do think it reduces their liability. It's not all or nothing. In your example, the difference between deliberately crossing the junction in a car and doing so by mistaken having been confused by sub-standard infrastructure would be the difference between "dangerous driving" and "driving without due care and attention". I would have thought. You should check out Ashley's most recent video, he analyses this in more detail.
Thanks for your all your efforts to stop people jumping red lights. I was witness to a similar incident, where some guys, pedestrians jumped a red light, a girl thinking all was ok without checking, also stepped out onto intersection, straight in front of a van. Last I heard that she was still unconscious months later. Just think of all the people traumatised, the parents and other family members; the driver; other pedestrians watching, including myself and who knows who eles.
I'm really struggling at the minute. I was involved in my first accident in 6yrs of driving actually only a few days after this incident on your video where someone pulled out of a junction in front of me as I was on the main road. Luckily it wasn't high speed and all parties were okay and cars were able to be driven off. My insurance have said it was not my fault and have images and dash cam from me and I've kept my no claims. But third party are denying liability and also claiming personal injury. I cannot get my vehicle repaired as liability has not yet been established and its such a mentally draining process I just want it all to be over with. I'm doing everything I can by ringing insurance weekly for updates. I've provided everything as well as signed truth statements and I feel like I am being penalised for an accident that was not my fault yet I'm still driving a damaged car. It really prays on my mind most days.
2 things as an ardent cyclist...fellow cyclists...stop jumping red lights! And ,drivers you aren't much better even though you think you are, Vent over, happy new year stay safe
@@mintywebb Do you have a source for that? What's certainly true is that a car jumping a red light is far more dangerous than a bicycle. In the clip, no one was injured but had it been the other way around with the car jumping the red light and hitting the cyclist, it might have been very different. Don't take that as an excuse for the cyclist in the clip who was totally at fault and broke the law,
Whether or not car driver aren’t much better doesn’t make the wrongdoings of cyclists any less serious. Shouting “drivers are worse!” isn’t going to stop you from being killed or seriously injured
Absolutely no way with all of that going on would I have spotted the cyclist. Especially with him being hidden behind that bollard. I would be interested to know if the cyclist took responsibility for their actions or blamed the newly qualified driver
I would not have done either. I agree about the driver's speed being appropriate & there was plenty going on to be cautious of. Unfortunately this could traumatise the driver for a very long time.
I watched the video over and over. With the benefit of all that hindsight, I would have spotted the cyclist. However, if, while I was looking out for the cyclist, one of the pedestrians had done something unexpected, they'd have copped it.
Great clip, thank you for posting it. Also it’s great to see that you said “the cyclist” instead of “cyclists” and that your comment section isn’t filled up with car/bus/HGV drivers moaning about cyclists and how they shouldn’t use the road “as they don’t pay road tax”. I’ve seen plenty of cyclists related clips with people moaning about them, you’re right that the cyclists was in the wrong, but it’s nice to see fair and balanced comments being made.
Agree with the video entirely. One comment though. You reference comments from ‘cyclists’ about how this scenario only endangers the cyclist physically. In my opinion, that comment is almost exclusively made in response to people who argue for cyclist licensing and registration, not in defence of running red lights. It’s a logical pushback again people who think cyclists should be registered etc. So I think it’s a bit disingenuous to mention this in the context you have here, as I don’t know many people who openly defend the right for anyone on a bike to run red lights. That’s just my experience though. As someone who rarely comments, thanks for the videos - I really enjoy them.
Didn't see the cyclist first time through (was focussed on the pedestrians) and even struggled to spot him after you pointed him out. One point you made was how difficult it might be to claim recompense from a cyclist who is 100% to blame, for any dmage or injusries. Is it time that cyclists too had to have some sort of 3rd party insurance?
@@chrispop99 a number plate, like normal cars? I am a cyclist, and I have a fairly neutral position on this. Don't forget, insurance works both ways. It can help you out as well as the other party.
@@SPTSuperSprinter156 This has been discussed many times by cycling organisations and the police, but is widely held to be unworkable. Many bikes have nowhere to mount a number plate for example. The number plate would only identify the bike, not the rider. There would be many objections regarding civil rights. A pedestrian not obeying road rules can cause a crash resulting in damage; would they also have to be insured? The only country in the world where bikes have number plates is North Korea, by the way.
A large majority of people riding bikes do have third party liability insurance, since it usually comes packaged as a free inclusion (the risks being so low) with House Insurance. You probably have the same cover on your own household policy. Mine is a normal policy that gives me that for the whole family. I also get international cover bundled in with a packaged bank account from Nationwide. Though TBF I have just rejoined Cycling UK of which one of the benefits in addition to insurance is highly skilled lawyers on my side, should they be needed. The "but but .. insurance!" argument is generally as empty as the "but but ... road tax" one (roads being funded out of general taxation and 80-90% of people on bikes also being people with cars).
The thing that really grinds my gears, and it happens a lot where I live, is that planter. Or those stupid neatly maintained hedges at the edge of the sidewalk, which obstruct all view for someone exiting a T-junction. If I have no physical possibility to see someone, I will not see them, and it doesn't matter if they did or didn't do something wrong. Where I live, we have those hedges, and every time I need to exit into a quite busy road, I am shooting dice, because looking is not going to help. Inching works to a point, but to get to where you can actually see if you can go or not the front bit of the car already occupies half of the first lane, at which point an accident will happen anyway. So I inch as much as possible, looking mostly for roofs or cars, which if the light is right can be sometimes seen, I take down the window to hear anything around, and the moment I step over the lane boundary, just pray and floor it. Less time in a dangerous position, less probability an event will happen. Opinion on the video: cyclist is at fault for jumping the red light, but whoever put that planter there, has at least 70% of the blame for the accident. On the other hand, knowing they jumped a red light, the cyclist could have slowed down when his view of the road was obstructed by the planter, and proceed with caution until he had the full view. Further, I would argue more and more for license and insurance for cyclists.
There is one instance where America is genuinely safer, the setback, its iillegal in most municipalities to plant hedges or build fences within the set back, at the very least it give the pedestrians and unobstructed view, with only city planted trees as the possible block to their view. even with vehicles parked its very easy for both the pedestrian and the car driver to see each other, like in this example most vehicle vs Pedestrian/cyclist accidents occur when either the vehicle or the pedestrian/cyclist violate the rules of the road. As for the cycling infrastructure I prefer the way it is in Minneapolis, where the frontage on the rivers are almost always public parks with dedicate Bike paths that lead into the suburbs and domestic neighborhoods of the city, and bike lanes generally stay on one way streets greatly reducing conflicts within traffic. Minneapolis is currently on a two year run without a single fatality due to cyclist being hit by cars, at the moment more people have dropped dead on their bicycle from heart attack.
I don’t think I’d portion 70% of the blame to the person who put the planter there, maybe more like 30% or 40%. Yes it’s a bad place for it to be, but the cyclist was essentially gambling with their life when they ran the red light. I feel that wilfully going through a red light must give you at least half of the responsibility for the accident.
@@markeyonethousand Yes, running through a red light is bad, and the cyclist should own his mistake. Red lights, though, can be run by mistake, or not paying attention. Especially by beginners, for whom there is an overload of information, and the observation routine is not yet honed enough. This can happen because of target fixation, or other distraction. Please don't think I argue that this is an excuse by any length. But mistakes happen. That's why the road engineers should plan the roads keeping in mind various possibilities for people to make mistakes. If they can minimize the potential for road events they should. And if they don't, they (road engineers) should be held responsible. These are people with degrees in the field of road safety, so they should be held up by a higher standard than you average driver or cyclist.
@@lazyidiotofthemonth I just love how easy is to drive in the USA. I have been to Pennsylvania, Texas and Florida. You really need to be distracted out of your mind or dead drunk/high/sleeping at the wheel to have an accident over there. I don't understand all the videos saying that USA driving is the worst and all that. Maybe they have not been to Eastern Europe. I find drivers over there (especially Texas) to be very polite and accommodating. Everyone seems to understand that traffic needs to flow. So they make space for you if you wish to change lanes, and you do the same in return. I drove almost 7000 miles in TX and I din't have anyone honk at me, or make me feel uncomfortable. And for an unpopular opinion: 4/all way stops are way better/safer/better for flow than roundabouts.
@@bogdananca I agree, roundabout are not safe or remotely smart when you have to deal with snow, removing snow from a roundabout is a huge pain in the ass.
Prioritise the biggest risk but DO NOT focus on it. The worst dangers come while you are focusing on another. Keep scanning. Even if you want to remember what you grandma would say, bad things come in threes. If you see one, be on the look out for the others.
Another great video I couldn’t agree more about red light jumpers, as a cyclist myself it drives me mad as it puts me in more danger on a bike as these red light jumpers annoy drivers making some drivers hate cyclists more as always the few ruin it for the many. The only point I disagree with is that drop bars are not safe in a city environment you do not need to be on the drops to use the levers and any cyclist with a brain should plan ahead just like we do in a car meaning the leaver location should not be an issue. If I have missed your actual reason for drop bars being an issue would be great to start a discussion. Keep the great work up love the videos
The lights on the cyclist side are tricky as hell, not to mention quite recently implemented, and will catch you out if you're not paying attention. He must've seen the left only green and gone ahead, this has almost caught me out a few times. The planter there is lethal.
It's BUSY there - there are people everywhere coming and going. DON'T JUMP THE LIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very simple. Wait like everyone else does for your turn. There are other people there too. Wouldn't they like to get where they're going quicker too?
We, cyclists, face other problems as well. This time I can see most clearly how the cyclist is at fault, but sometimes road users make it so difficult for us that I do not even know why I am still cycling. For example, when you make a mistake, some drivers will use their vehicles as a weapon to punish you without taking into consideration that sort of behaviour can result in an accident. In addition to this, they give you no room to maneuver and the common practice is you will be pushed to the side of the road if you dare to cycle 2 or 3 feet from the curb taking some of their space. I am not even going to mention people crossing the road looking at their phones which poses a clear health & safety risk and places the whole responsibility for their safety and well-being on you. I know you need to take extra precautions when you are on the road, but I think this is everyone's responsibility.
Yeah, no. Cyclists shouldn’t be on the road at all. Almost all of you think that you’ve got the same rights but at the same time act as if you’re above others. Every morning, on my commute to work, there’s a cyclist blocking the road during rush hour, creating almost a mile long traffic jam… all while there’s a completely empty and wide sidewalk he can use instead of screwing 20-30 people over.
Edinburgh is a nightmare at the moment anyway because of the TramWorks - this highlights perfectly why cyclists are utterly thoughtless when they do this. Their friends, family and the people who get involved in accidents they cause are affected for life when things get serious. Thanks for highlighting Ash.
They say the cyclist is the only one who's going to get hurt? Tell that to my elderly neighbour who was hospitalised with a broken hip after being hit buy a cyclist running a red light at speed. As a cyclist myself I NEVER jump red lights, and have been shouted at by other cyclists on several occasions because of it. The driver in this clip is 100% not at fault, and I hope they recover all costs from the cyclist.
@@zbf5h89ftb Yep, I filtered through the traffic, and stopped at the stop line, which blocked cyclists behind me from going through the red light. I got called some nasty names. i dont care. cyclists should stop at reds like everyone else.
I did see some movement (which happened to be the cyclist), but that's because I was looking out for it lol. Also the dash cam will be a slightly different view to what the driver could see from within the car - and in this situation, with lots of other things going on and things obstructing the view, I most likely wouldn't have seen the stupid cyclist either. On the point about cyclists only risking their own skin: absolutely agree about the wider impact on mental health and the families. Also, if a cyclist jumps a red light and causes cars to swerve or brake harshly, that could create a collision with other cars or pedestrians nearby. So it's not just the cyclist putting their own physical safety at risk. Glad the viewer is taking action against this selfish idiot, and I hope he gets his comp.
Really interesting to hear your view of drop handle bars. Not something I had considered before. I use straight bars on my bike and will often have my fingers poised on the brake lever in potentially hazardous situations.
To be honest I rode drop handle bar bikes for years, you can cover the brakes just fine in two out of the three hand positions (the third position, the tops, is a relaxed position you wouldn't use unless going at a low speed anyway, plus it is possible to install redundant brake levers in this position if it really matters). Don't blame the bike for its poor rider.
You can do the same on drops - in fact, it's more comfortable than on straight as the hand automatically falls on the lever if you ride on the hoods. The real error (apart from going through a red light and being oblivious to the traffic - note how late the cyclist sees the car) is not having the finger on the lever in traffic/dangerous situations.
On dropped bars, they can have a superior advantage in control in corners and comfort. I can brake more effectively if my hands for the last 2 hours have been able to shift between different positions than if they are stiff having used a "T-bar" bike.
While I agree with @ashley_neal's analysis of this one, I think a large percentage of the blame for this collision has to be given to Edinburgh Council and Transport for Edinburgh. I live about 10 minutes from this junction and regularly see people (on all modes of transport) jump red lights here, as well as commit other questionable (travel related) acts. I think this is due to very, very, very poor road design. (Going off on a tangent, I would say this is due to a desire by a few people to cram a new tram line in to an already crowded space). Going back to this particular incident: If you're travelling from the cyclist's direction, and aren't familiar with the junction, it's very easy to mistake a green light for turning left (from Leith Street on to York Place) as a green light for going straight on (from Leith Street on to Broughton Street). I'm not sure the cyclist intentionally jumped the light. Even worse, given the frequency that they change the layout of this junction, it's very possible to come through here one day, and for it to be different the next. Sometimes they change the junction in a very subtle way, that would be easy to miss, with no clear signage.
This is the best comment! You are spot on. If you watch carefully, you can see the cyclist is actually stopped waiting at the red light, in the advanced cycle box. As the lights change, they move off with the left turning traffic, probably on amber and missing that it’s a green left arrow only. But this is mainly due to the very poor placement of the traffic lights. There’s no way a green arrow should be positioned to the right of this junction, nor should it illuminate following an amber sequence - usually left green filters are an extra signal that illuminate whilst the main lights are still showing red.
@@shm5547 living and driving in Edinburgh, I agree with you both. Not only is the lane sequence unnatural (coming from Leith Walk, you have to stay left to go round to Queen Street - whereas most people are in the right lane and then shuffle across), there seems to be an 'extra' set of lights on the right hand side of the middle lane, with the filter left. I also believe the cyclist misread that and went through unintentionally
My father killed a pedestrian when he was a bus driver. He was totally cleared of any blame - there were multiple witnesses both on the pavement and on his bus who all stated there was nothing he could've done. The guy stepped off the pavement into the path of the bus literally a split second before being hit. He ended up crushed under the wheels. Dad had to get off the bus and see his mangled body. He carried on driving that route for another 6 months. Then one day, at the spot where the accident occurred, he stopped the bus and asked everybody to get off. He radioed in and told the depot he couldn't carry on. He had a nervous breakdown. I came across a photo of dad at a family gathering during his breakdown. It was upsetting. The only way I can describe his look is akin to what the American soldiers in WW2 called the "Thousand yard stare".
Although it doesn't detract from the point of the video... This junction does constantly have drivers making the same mistake here, have enough video from my bike I don't even highlight it in recording anymore. The way the left turn and straight on lights are separate lights and the right turn is even further off on a separate pole, all of them with the full 3 lights (RAG) in a vertical line The week after this video was recorded there was a car v car exact same situation, front wheel mangled police on scene. Looked like he was quite surprised by the car (suppose you would be either way tbh) but reckon this could have been an unintentional jump, traffic in left turn lane proceeding through green and had he just checked the wrong lights like so many other drivers. End of the day he is still at fault and wouldn't apportion blame to the driver but if I was there I would not cycle so close to an obstruction paying such little attention to it, especially at peak time in a busy area. Treat it like parked cars and expect a child to jump out from it at any second.
I really struggled to see our cyclist. There’s so much going on down a street like this. A box junction needs awareness of; my lesson is that as a cyclist I need to keep some responsibility for our safety. Totally agree about the dropped handle bars, I ride a racer but try and use a hybrid in the town. Speaking as a community mental health nurse, thumbs up re the mental health message. Thanks.
There’s far too much of this “terrible cyclist jumps red light” and far too little of “too many road users don’t obey the law and the rules”. A car or lorry or bus jumping a light is far worse in its potential effects than a cyclist doing it. The majority of deaths and injuries in road collisions are the responsibility of motor vehicle users, not cyclists.
@@ashley_neal I’m not. Can’t you read? I specifically said “too many road users don’t obey the laws” which includes cyclists, and includes pedestrians. There’s too much focus in these “road safety” videos on UA-cam (and TikTok) which aim to paint cyclists as the only people who disobey the laws and rules of road use. But… cyclists are responsible for very few deaths and serious injuries to others whereas motor vehicle users are responsible for very many, for in fact the overwhelming majority of deaths. Cyclists who (for instance) disobey red traffic lights are at serious risk of physical harm, but motorists who disobey them are at serious risk of physically harming others as well as themselves. I have a driving license for Class C, B, and A vehicles and I cycle and walk. I’ve been injured by inattentive pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists, and car/van drivers. I’ve been injured by my own errors too. There’s one difference between all of my motor vehicle injuries and the other injuries: the driver of the vehicle was unhurt and they refused any blame in all but very few instances even if they’d disobeyed road markings or signage or failed to look properly. The point is (which you miss) that everyone is at fault at some point, whether deliberate or inadvertent, but it’s far too often the cyclist who is blamed simply because “you don’t pay road tax” or “you’re holding me up” or “use the cycle lane” even if it’s full of leaves and broken glass and other debris. It’s every single road user, and I’m sick of cyclists being singled out as the bad guys. I have worked as a firefighter and I’ve been to many road collisions. None involved a cyclist and all the deaths involved a car being driven too fast or too aggressively. But yeah: it’s bad naughty terrible cyclists making the roads deadly.
I can read, look at your first sentence. The reason I made this video was because of people with your attitude, and I hope you watched until the end. An attitude of "The cyclist never injures anyone" is simply wrong. As a firefighter you should totally understand how things you witness affect you long term, even though you may never be at fault. By the way, who mentioned “you don’t pay road tax” or “you’re holding me up” or “use the cycle lane”? or is that your chip on your shoulder?
@@ashley_neal I never said “cyclists never injure”. I said motor vehicles cause more injuries. Do you ride a bike on the road? Have you any idea what it’s like? I strongly recommend that you do, because your attitude will change. You’ll realise just how vulnerable you feel, how intimidating cars are and how dangerously they are driven. Of course cyclists do stupid things - your video is evidence of this. But a stupid and careless cyclist is far less dangerous than a stupid and careless car driver or a stupid and careless lorry driver. You’re focusing on the cyclist. You ought to be focused on human behaviour regardless of their mode of transport. Then you’ll understand that it’s not cyclists who are the problem. It’s people. Go ride a bike. But for goodness sake be careful. You’ll be much more careful as a driver afterwards, I guarantee it.
@@ashley_neal the people who mention “you don’t pay road tax” etc are the people who hit me when I’m cycling. The car drivers. The ones who don’t pay road tax either. The one’s driving too fast for the conditions. The one’s driving too close. The ones who don’t care about my safety, just about not being late because they left it too late to leave. I make mistakes. I’ve been at fault. But when I’m at fault in my car it’s much much more serious in its potential for harming others. No one is perfect. Cycling is much safer than driving when there are no cars about.
I want to comment to say I do not believe the cyclist knowingly* "jumped" the red light - you can see the surprise in his face that a car was going through the junction when he was. As a resident in Edinburgh, I've been through this junction multiple times from the cyclists direction and I've seen many many cars go through the same red light. There's a left filter light which comes on and at that point, I've seen cars go straight through this junction and not even realise they were jumping a red light. The junction + roadworks are an absolute mess and I'm surprised there's not been more accidents happen due to it.
I think you are right. Looking at streetview, the markings on the road for the cycle path make it look like the cycle path is going to the left, but then it swings right at the planter. Terrible road layout and sightlines. I guess the planter is there to block the tramline, but surely there's a better solution.
I’m a cyclist and drive for a living 8 hour week on bike and 25 hour a week. Car. I’d have missed the cyclist behind the pointer. Too. Looking forward PT2 and taking legal civil action damages caused cyclist. Correctly
Was wondering why there was a vehicle turning into York Place at 0:14, so looked at the Street View from the cyclist's direction. There are filtered lights for turning left from Leith Street into York Place or straight on from Leith Street to Broughton Street. Then there's a separate set of lights for turning right from Leith Street into York Place. Let's play devil's advocate here and look at it from the cyclist's POV. He's waiting to go straight on at Leith Street (watch it at x0.25 speed and you can see he's stationary at 0:09), with a vehicle to the left of him wanting to turn left into York Place. The left filter light must have turned green, as both the cyclist and motorist react and move off (0:11). Giving him the benefit of the doubt, the cyclist has mis-read the lights, not realising the straight ahead filter light is still red. This could be an explanation for why he didn't expect a car to be crossing in front of him (crossing pedestrians also gave some comfort) and was therefore so late in braking. He's also following the cycle lane markings on the road which unfortunately pass right in front of the giant planter. Doesn't detract from the fact that the cyclist is still 100% to blame for not reading the junction and the lights correctly, or for the overall message of Ashley's video.
I'm more inclined to believe that the cyclist mistakenly thought he was crossing on green. The junction looks hideously confusing from google street view. The cyclist would at that point have been focused on following the winding cycle path and avoiding getting tangled in the tram tracks, and his view of the approaching vehicles is obscured by the box while seeing the pedestrians cross would have appeared as an additional cue that his way was clear. I think it's a massive failure on Ashley's part to not even attempt to consider the cyclist's view of things. He's just assumed the cyclist is guilty.
All agreed except for your residual blame of the cyclist. He did not have a red; the red was showing for the separate carriageway for right-turning traffic. On his carriageway, he had a green, which had appeared in both the physical position and in the sequence of the lights which belongs to an unrestricted green "proceed with caution" signal. Some total idiot had mounted a left-arrow filter signal in that position that was completely irrelevant to the lanes on either side of that traffic light. If you go through the traffic-light sequence, they only make sense if you assume that the pair of three-aspect lights between the two carriageways sometimes control the carriageways on their own sides of the island, but sometimes swop over without warning so that they control each other's carriageways! The only thing that the cyclist did wrong was to trust that the person designing the traffic light system had an IQ over 60 and at least a slight inkling about how traffic lights are supposed to work. There is going to be a mountain of humble pie to be eaten by all the people who have been throwing brown stuff at this innocent cyclist. And, I suspect, there will be big and well-deserved payouts to him from the authorities that almost caused his death. (Absolutely not from the motorist, of course, who is equally a victim, and who also should be compensated.)
@@kgbgb3663, I genuinely wonder whether these traffic lights conform to a minimum safe standard. As you say, their placement is absolutely baffling. If nothing changes, somebody will get killed here.
@@matttrevers2552 I'm surprised they lasted a week in their current state. I would have thought that someone local would have started a campaign to get them replaced by something at least roughly consistent with normal practice and accepted conventions, precisely because they are so obviously potentially fatal. I can't for the life of me understand what was in the minds or the people who designed them, approved them and installed them. The _only_ reason I can think of for doing it the way they did is to save a few quid on separate filter lights. That can't _really_ be the motivation, can it?
How do you know they don't, I have insurance, what about pedestrians, have you got insurance for yourself and family in case they walk out into a car or bicycle?
@@WhosPhotoTube Cyclists use roads to travel, like cars, busses, lorries etc, so should have insurance along with number plates. Your argument is more about life insurance. Doesn't make sense.
@@martynllPhotography Do pedestrians not also use roads? The reason that vehicles need insurance and plates is because they pose such a high risk of killing others. The number of deaths caused by vehicles supports this.
@@timrathbone Here come all the cyclists 🤣🤣 This video is perfect proof of why cyclists that ride on the roads, and use roads as their main means of travel, should have plates and insurance. If those lights were camered lights, the cyclist would be fined for running the red. The insurance would pay out to the driver of the car he damaged. Instead the car owner who was in the right, has to struggle to get contact and have to take the cyclist no doubt to court in order to get paid out. Something Insurance would sort if the cyclist had it. there's really no argument here. If cyclists stuck to the rules of the road when using them, this accident wouldn't have happened...
I'm a cyclist and am fed up with seeing either red light jumpers or cyclists without lights. Those people are just asking for trouble. I wear a bright yellow jacket and have good strong lights so it's hard to miss me. Regarding your video, that planter is in a terrible spot. Whose idea was it to place it there where you can't see traffic coming from the right? It's ridiculous. And you're right about the effects an accident like that can have on other people, not to mention those involved. I wish everyone was more responsible on the roads.
I drive past that junction every week, with the tram roadworks there things change very often. In Edinburgh there are plenty cyclists who jump red lights whenever they want to. But they expect respect from car drivers. Respect needs to be earned IMO. I always hang back and give cyclist plenty room. But you can't account for a situation like in the video. Ash is dead right, every road user needs to drive responsibly. And jumping a red no matter what your reasoning is always gonna get you in trouble. Keep up the good work, your videos make me always think about my driving when I'm out in the truck. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️👌
Having looked at the junction on google, it looks incredibly confusing. Is it possible that it was a mistake rather than a deliberate light jump? Watching this footage again, I think it's clear that the cyclist was not expecting traffic to be crossing his path. To me this suggests he thought his light was green. Coupled with seeing the pedestrians crossing, he took that as meaning that his way was clear.
@@matttrevers2552 totally agree with you. Cyclist would have had to be proper kamikaze to do that deliberately. I think it was a misread of the lights, compounded by the hidden line of sight
@@euan1234 in Edinburgh they are suicidal and complacent. Council, media and police always takes the cyclists side, cyclists in Edinburgh feel untouchable
@@elliotwilliams7421 I don't ride in the city myself, but surely it is better to keep safe and follow road laws rather than ride into an incident and feel "protected" regardless of physical harm? (I'm not talking about this incident, just in general).
@@euan1234 you would think. It creates an air of complacency as most cyclists haven't had an actual injury from cycling. A Your thinking is a bit idealistic. I could apply it to drivers.....'surely its better for drivers to obey the laws and be considerate than loose a license, end up in jail etc........'
And top marks to the Council for thinking that a junction under repair was a good place for a planter so large even a car could be missed by it.
Terrible decision for putting it there.
Needless as it serves no purpose at all.
The accident would almost certainly not have happened if it wasn't there but quite why the cyclists didn't consider this massive obstruction to his view a safety issue only he can say.
@@Alex-qq1gm maybe the cyclist could have considered the massive risk he was taking by ignoring traffic signals. He didn’t even do that so was highly unlikely to be practicing road craft and defensive riding anyway. The planter is not at fault here.
@@highdownmartin multiple factors play into accidents, in this case the bad junction design, poor visibility and bad road use. Part of the purpose of safe junction design is to reduce the risk of accidents even when people are inattentive or doing things wrong.
This junction is designed badly *and* the cyclists did the wrong thing.
Years ago, I worked with a lad my same age whose late father had struck and killed a pedestrian who was crossing a fast dual-carriageway at night. No blame could have been or was attributed to my friend's father but it messed him up for the rest of his life. It's worth remembering that motorised vehicles may be harder than pedestrians and cyclists but they have soft centres.
As a cyclist, I stop at red lights and do not depart early; I have little sympathy with red light jumpers, no matter what form of transport they are using.
That's interesting.
My local bypass, mainly single carriageway, 25k vehicles a day, and built in 1995, has footpath crossings laid out with a variety of options including signal controlled, uncontrolled with central refuge, and at least one where there is no indication at all and the requirement is to thread between two sets of overlapping crash barriers on the central reservation at that particular point between crossing each lane 'naked'.
I haven't been across the last one.
Those few seconds saved just isn't worth it. I'd rather keep myself and others safe.
Ultimately, nothing is risk free. Motorised transport has inherent dangers that cannot be completely mitigated. Society accepts the risks for the time and effort it saves. But nobody knows how it would affect them should the worst happen, perhaps that is the biggest risk you take when you get behind the wheel.
@@cameraroll4030 Yep. Being somewhat older, I grew up at a time when death in road accidents was far more likely than today, almost considered part of life. I've known families that were ripped apart by such tragedies. The same goes for industrial accidents too. People complain about Health & Safety but the figures of people who died at work, even up until not many decades ago were truly awful. Every one of them is just the tip of the iceberg of devastation.
The way some of the cyclist delivery people ride honestly scares me that and they just set a bad example while also adding to the bad rep cyclist can have.
If I'm honest, I reckon I would have missed the cyclist too as I would likely have been much more focused on further errant pedestrians crossing during my green light. In fact, I see that happen all the time and it really highlights how you should never rely on your light being green.
I even looked on approach expecting to see a cyclist coming from the right and STILL missed it first time. You quickly get fixed on the pedestrians, and there’s just no way you’d realistically see them at any point when driving.
I was looking too, having seen the thumbnail, but the pedestrians took my attention. The cyclist must have been on another planet if he thought there was half a chance of getting away with that move.
That big, yellow planter (or whatever it was) would definitely have been ringing alarm bells for me. But that's probably because these videos have made me hyer-aware of blind spots and being seen by others. The cammer's speed was decent for the general risk.
The cyclist appears to be adult-aged, not an immature youngster. You would think that self-preservation would be their goal.
@@john1703 Yes that did surprise me too.
Seven months after passing my motorcycle test I had a young girl 12 year old run into the side of my motorcycle while looking backwards across a dual carriageway. She ran into the side of my motorcycle I was travelling at just 12 miles an hour when she hit me and as a consequence I ended up having to deal with the fact that this young girl would never walk again. She wasn't looking when she was running she didn't even know I was there when she hit me. When my motorcycle struck her I was the one that the police tried to prosecute I was the one they came for and although I was innocent and I was proved innocent it deeply affected me for years and years.. there was literally nothing I could have done about it..
🙏🙏🙏
🙏🙏🙏
I'm sure you must feel some sense of guilt/responsibility if that girl truly can't walk again (not saying you're in the wrong but it's understandable that people would support the person that's injured the most)
@@barely_sentient_fig yes?
@@KoldPhaze maybe the first time I've ever left an emotional ish comment on UA-cam, I did I felt awful. I become extremely depressed and I thought about it non stop for the next few years. It made me unrealistically aware of my surroundings and I was honestly pretty good before. I had the patent screaming at me calling me all sorts of names and I could see how heart broken mother was. She was absolutely broken which made me feel worse. The girl laying on the floor of this duel carriageway screaming unable to move I will never forget it. I remember calling 999 and explaining that someone had run into the side of me. It was immediately my fault or that's how I felt, the crash bar moving forward at just a few mph was enough to destroy her kneecap and lower portion of her leg. She had these pins out into her knee she did walk I believe in the end but she had permanent disable / nerve damage needed aids. The police made me feel even worse. Didn't offer me any help instead took me to court where I gave them the 4 videos the bike has recorded side front rear and while I could prove I wasn't to blame, and I won with the other side having ti pay me for the emotional hell they put me through, I was a total mess I was broken and I stopped riding for a year for the most part. The mother did eventually forgive me she apologised it was pretty clear who was to blame. I was offered counselling but by then it was too late.i can't forget but I've learnt to live with it..
That's why cyclist pee me off so much and car drivers. They don't understand how vulnerable they both are. The cyclist vs a car never gonna work and if the car driver is a decent human being, if they hit or kill someone they are gonna have to live with it no amount of money can change that. I never even took the money from this incident I couldn't. Something like this can ruin someone..
I had cameras on the bike, I had so many witnesses since the bike same as this was like an Xmas tree. People don't see motorcycles that play music I must have had 40 witness's I was in London. None of those blamed me they saw it all. I was blamed by an upset mother understandably and the police who frankly are total twats and do what they like. The accident wasn't the only thing that upset me and stressed me out, the police did as well and that's for another conversation entirely. I did claim. Against them they should have known better. They had all the evidence in their possession and the bike gave them the speed etc..... they made stupid arguments like trying to tell the court that I didn't pull over into the bus lane on the left which was just so ridiculous because of bus was coming like I'm going to pull over and get hit by a bus and kill myself. At the end of the day I just couldn't do anything about my situation I'm breaking wouldn't have done anything either it was completely unavoidable she didn't run in front of me she ran into the side of me she hit me I didn't hit her. I don't really think it's understandable that people will support her over me because it was clearly her fault and anybody with half a brain with their eyes open could see that. The mother wasn't there so wasn't able to judge and the police don't even get me started.
Drive safely pay attention you never know when something or someone stupid might do something like this and you never know when someone is going to try and ruin your life as a result.
Piece x
The mental devastation that happens to others after a death in a road traffic accident must not be underestimated. Two completely separate local accidents in the last few years near here resulted in the wife of one victim and the husband of the other taking their own lives, such tragedy as both had children of school age. Thank you for another great analysis video Ashley.
Skill issue
No discussion of planter which obscured essential sight lines.
@@philipmorris5990 Ashley already covered this in the video, perhaps you missed it.
@RushiesBoots only for one of the parties involved.
The weak minded will do such things. If you can’t handle an accident you best lock yourself in your house and never leave.
Thank you for highlighting the impact that these incidents can have on everybody involved or otherwise. It takes a lot of courage to share stories about accidents and the effect it has on people’s mental health and the knock on effects. Appreciate all your work and efforts Ashley!
I also appreciate the viewer who sent the video in
It is totally true and be aware that it doesn't have to be that serious to cause a mental impact. When I was 14, my mother knocked over a girl from my school when she ran across the road. The impact knocked on to the bonnet and she hit her head on the windscreen in front of me. This memory is as sharp in my mind now as it was nearly 50 years ago, even though the girl was only scratched and bruised, and at school the next day.
On a side note, who at Edinburgh City Council thought that planter was a good idea?
You could almost be describing the exact accident I witnessed when I was 14, one of the girls I was walking with spotted a friend across the road and just ran out - and yes, I recall it as clear as day even 33 years on. I still sometimes think about the poor lady driving - she was completely in shock. The girl was fine, back at school that afternoon.
Planter is fine. It's not an obstruction if everyone obeys the red lights
The planter should not be there plain and simple. Reality is, people do not follow the rules so removing that planter is what should happen next.
It's not a planter. It's a stopper for runaway trams to keep them out of the construction site. Probably solid concrete (but they may have used a planter for that purpose).
And I wouldn't blame the city council or the transit agency, but the person who thought it a good idea to even fabricate concrete blocks or planters of that height. That thing wouldn't just be a problem in that spot.
But thinking about its purpose for only the time it took to write this comment: why do you even need a stopper there for the unlikely event that a tram would have powered its way into the construction site? That's kind of on par with wearing an emergency flotation device in a cinema.
@@Pystro I have to admit that I had my doubts it was a planter but hadn't identified it's purpose. Thanks. This is an excellent example external factors. In virtually any RTC, there are a number of factors that coincide to cause the accident. The main factor in this case is clearly the cyclist but the tram stopper is also a significant factor. If it was not there, there is a reasonable chance the accident could have been prevented, Likewise, if the pedestrian had not been there, this would have increased the driver's chance of seeing the cyclist. There will be others but remove any one and the outcome could well be different. In order to learn the full lesson from any accident, these external factors should be identified and considered. The tram stopper in this instance is a big one and feels like it should be at least 30 meters from where it actually is. Anyone from Edinburgh CC reading this?
I would have missed that cyclist. I re-watched the start of clip multiple times (before you pointed out the cyclist) and missed him every time. Thanks for sharing this video. I'll repeat that I learn something every time!
Also, even if you did see the cyclist earlier, it is reasonable for you to assume that they'd stop at a red light, and not be a total dummy.
@Cycling God Agreed, I would not have fixated on the pedestrians either. Can't comment on whether I would have noticed the cyclist in real life or not.
@@etiennedevignolles7538 Exactly!
A family friend, a lorry driver, was involved in a fatal accident 6 years ago. No blame was attributed to him but it definitely messed him up. He hasn't returned to professional driving and I doubt he ever will. I can only sympathise what he's gone through mentally.
If anyone is interested, this is recorded at York Place, Edinburgh. Having been living in Edinburgh for 7 years, and cycling has been an extremely popular way to commute around the city, especially for students. I have experienced close calls by both driving and cycling in the city. In my opinion, the road is a common space for all road users and it's everyone's responsibility to keep the road safe, one of them is to follow the lights.
What that cyclist did was both criminal and suicidal. If a cyclist wishes to break the law and jump a red light, the "correct" way to do it is to look for traffic and be able to stop. This idiot does not emerge either slowly or by looking to his left. An accident looking for a place to happen. Back in the 70's, my favourite ride was from Kings Buildings to Stockbridge via the Mound, late evening with light traffic. Most significant dangers was wet granite setts the other side of Queen street and that turn onto St Stephen street. Suspect it can't be done anymore.
@@crinolynneendymion8755 "This idiot does not emerge either slowly or by looking to his left" - which makes me think he misread the lights and actually thought he had priority. It was too care-free to be a sneaky red-light jump, in my opinion. I think he was going through the junction thinking he had green (which he didn't)
@@crinolynneendymion8755 I'm intrigued by your idea that there is a "correct" way to jump a red light! The Highway Code applies to ALL road users as it as it has clearly stated on the front cover of many editions, IE: pedestrians, cyclists, horse riders, and mobility scooter users. There are no rules in the Highway Code showing cyclists how to "correctly" jump a red light, a red light is a red light and means STOP! clear and simple, the sooner pedestrians and cyclists understand this and abide by it the better, then maybe innocent motorists as in the clip Ashley has shared with us will stop having to take the blame, and stop feeling guilty and even suicidal for progressing safely through their green light. We ALL have a responsibility to keep our roads and road users safe, therefore we all have a responsibility to abide by the laws, and rules of the road.
@@ianrichardson8150 A reasonable exception might occur when the lights respond to sensors in the road surface designed to detect cars but they might not be sensitive enough to detect cyclists or horses, whilst that was unlikely to be the issue in the video, sometimes it does happen when traffic lights cannot detect the cyclist and won't change from red no matter how long the cyclist waits, and given that the cyclist might not be able to dismount and walk in some circumstances (ie where there is no footway or alternative crossing) it requires the cyclist or road user to be as observant as possible when making their manoeuvre. (I worked in traffic control for a number of years, and many councils don't consider or care that this can occur)
I think it's time we make cyclists ( who dont have a license) do a CBT, as that will give them highway code knowledge, also make sure they know how to ride a bike.
Let's not forget it's not just cars vs. light jumping cyclists. They can also seriously hurt pedestrians, other law-abiding cyclists, and motorcyclists.
Your comment comes across as "car bad". This seems to be the all-too-common attitude of "aggressive" cyclists. I don't know you, you may not be like that, but this video was about a stupid cyclist, there are plenty of other videos about stupid motorists so I think your comment was unnecessary.
@@chrishartley1210 I think you're reading their comment wrong. I've been in a number of situations in London where as a pedestrian I've almost been taken out by light jumping cyclists. The comment is saying it's not just situations with cars where light jumping cyclists is a problem.
@@MatthewRichardson1 You are right, I did read it differently. My apologies to @CycleCalm
Or cause a motorist to react / swerve and involve other more vulnerable road users.
As always everyone should follow the rules but picking out cyclists that jump lights seems to ignore the fact that cars doing so present a far greater direct risk to everyone around them. The cyclist in question was an extremely poor road user who rode recklessly and placed himself at risk as well as potentially traumatising others. As has been mentioned though, far more pedestrians are injured by cars being driven recklessly than cyclists doing so.
I had something similar happen recently. Was coming up to a junction. My light was on green. I slowed slightly coming up to the light where there was a crossing. There's a blind spot on the left and I came to within 20 yards of the crossing, a cyclist shot out with no lights whilst wearing headphones. Despite a hard application of the brakes and some last second evasive action from us both, I hit them. Amazingly the cyclist was up on his feet straight away and my car has zero damage. He just bounced off the front on the bumper. His bike was wrecked though. I came running out with my first aid kit but the cyclist didn't want to stick around. Either he knew he was on the wrong or his bike was stolen. I'll never know. I did my due diligence and reported it to the police but with no evidence and no injured party they never got back to me. That was when I decided to get a dashcam.
Good thing you reported it.
Imagine the cyclist would have gone straight to the police and reported you for hit and run.
Could be really hard to defend against that without a dashcam.
After a close call I chose not to drive without a dashcam. This shut down a claim from a lorry drive who recklessly jumped of a tail lift in front of me.
Good point. I've been dithering about a dashcam for the car and equivalent for cycling where you need front and rear cameras. Now I'm a pensioner, cost becomes more significant and I'm given to understand that budget dashcams are not good enough either due to image, response speed, or memory
Haha at first I read it as "I came running out with my fist" 🤣
Absolutely no chance of spotting that cyclist. Very interested in hearing about that court case in the next video. It's extremely important to ensure that you take out the legal cover in your car insurance, never make a saving on that! I'm from the UK and I was hit from behind in Germany, any lawyer dealing with this type of claim will know precisely what to do, an average motorist will not be able to successfully navigate the process.
How does one go about claiming from the cyclist? I assume you'd need their name and contact number....then its the courts?
The rise in death-wish people, and "No Win, No Fee" solicitors, is why, as a new driver, I make sure to have the legal cover, included in my car insurance - £50 is worth it, in the event of a claim from an ambulance chaser, or crash-for-cash fraudster.
@@johnbooth5199 That legal cover is if you want to claim for more than just the cost of your car. If another party wishes to sue you for everything under the sun your car insurance will still pay for it regardless whether you have legal cover or not.
@Cycling God No way, any driver is scanning the road ahead, there are so many things to be constantly observing directly in line of travel it will take all attention. It looked to me that the oncoming road might have been at an angle, in which the A pillar blocks the view of the cyclist. The view of the dashcam is not the same as the view of the driver.
@@leevfx Always call the police, get all the details you can, call your insurance company there and then telling them what information you have and what else they require. Then make a claim against the cyclist.
It's astounding how quickly we throw our safety out the window in one of the places where we need it most.
I would say waiting at red lights and "our safety" only intersect. The former is not a subset of the latter. Sometimes jumping red lights has zero impact on safety or perhaps even a positive one. It depends. Blindly blasting through, especially amber gambler type jumping, is not smart at all however.
I'm an everyday cyclist and fit and confident enough to mix it in traffic whilst obeying the rules of the road. I never jump lights, would advise other cyclists to do the same and sympathise with anyone who's affected by the aftermath of road collisions. It's fine to criticise cyclists and I think Ashley mainly including here (but not always) offers a good context when doing this. Pre-amble over!
I would say however there are understandable reasons why we can get triggered when these criticisms come our way. Often criticism is made in bad faith and even when not intended our prevailing car culture makes it hard for some people to imagine that non-motorised traffic is anything other than an obstacle to their progress. Because cars are the norm on the road it only takes one driver in 100 to think like this for abuse to becomes an everyday experience and this can feel dangerous when you're more exposed on two wheels.
One minute we're told get off the road next minute we're told to get off the pavement. We're criticised for wearing specialist cycling gear one day and and criticised for not wearing it the next. We're held to account and punished by motorists because yesterday they saw a teenager doing a wheelie. Essentially it can feel that whatever we do we can't win and there's no correct way to be on two wheels. No wonder we get defensive!
Just one last point regarding drop bars. They are absolutely fine in traffic. The advantage is they give you all the hand positions so you ride on the tops to see better or in the drops when a lower centre of gravity/profile helps with stability on a down hill stretch or in gusting /strong headwinds. On longer journeys being able to change hand positions helps with comfort too which has a knock on effect of improving concentration.
@Cycling God Perhaps you like myself are somewhat blessed to have certain attributes that make us less likely to annoy impatient drivers or we maintain a thicker skin?
I gained some insight when recovering from sciatica with less strength in my right leg than I'm used to. It meant I was a little slower getting off the mark, was less able to accelerate in and out of spaces and was generally a little more wobbly and less confident. I felt more vulnerable, was more sensitive to and in probability did objectively attract more hostility on the road.
I know many women and people of different ages and abilities have different experiences from myself and do feel bullied away from riding. Just a thought.
@Cycling God I'm a cycling mortal who happens to be at least somewhat privileged in terms of skillset, experience, health and looking a bit hard and as though I could chase a car down (I'm not and I wouldn't btw! )
Nevertheless your anecdote denies other peoples' reality or worse frames it as 'if you're not as capable as me then of course drivers are gonna abuse you'.
I have a few anecdotes of my own from 30 years of cycling up, down and around the UK as an adult.
Not that long ago I had to shelter behind a lamp post as a coked-up driver mounted a kerb to try and run me down for literally no other reason than he'd had an argument with someone on a bike, was frustrated with traffic and wanted to kill a cyclist. I was simply sitting in primary, waiting my turn in a queue of traffic! I swear the only reason it got to court was he damaged the lamp post! I was a witness! Of all the things the incident that shook the most seems like nothing in comparison... some snot-nosed police officer caught my eye and said to a colleague 'I effin hate effin cyclists' . I was sat in a park with my missus, our bikes lying on the ground beside us .
@@heyasasha "next minute we're told to get off the pavement" - well it is illegal to cycle on the pavement unless it is signposted otherwise, with a maximum £500 fine, so yes, do get off the pavement
@@Cycling-God "I have a very dim view of most cyclists cycling with the exception of the lycra clad mob" And you're an advanced driver, jesus wept, did you get it out of a xmas cracker!! That's such a narrow minded viewpoint, judgemental and quite frankly so massivel out of kilter with reality!
Kids on bikes are never an issue as they're utterly predictable in their unpredictability, as are ladies on sit up and begs, the elderly/infirm, the teen tearaway etc. you'd know this if your advanced driving was up to snuff.
It's the lycra clad as you label them that act out of line of expectation more often. I ride full carbon team issue bike/expensive clothing as well as raggy t and walking shorts on my flat bar commuter. M experience over near 40 ears on the road is that close passes (on other cyclists) by roadies is common, risk taking is insane and egos are massive.
Either way, the hazard is you in a motor 99.99% of the time, that's the hazard OU present to others simpl b being in a mass around 1.5metric tonnes travelling at speeds that mean a huge amount of kinetic energy if there's a collision.
That's why I take a dim view of people who state they are advanced drivers but fail to recognise their responsibilities are arogant to point out the failings of the slowest groups on the road (aside from pedestrians) and how motorists are the biggest hazard to human life on the roads, not people on cycles.
@@zaphod4245 well done on missing the point, you must feel very proud of yourself.
I did not see the cycle it’s until you pointed him out. Been driving for almost 50 years, few accidents btw. Imo, the very large road signs coupled with the large yellow thing completely blocked my view. If I was driving I would have had many potential dangers for me to worry about, including cyclists jumping their red lights. However, I don’t think I could have avoided him. Great post, as usual. I learn and relearn so much from you. Many thanks. I think this is a great advertisement for drivers to install dash cams facing front and rear. Solves so many problems with police and insurance companies. Perhaps a future post may be useful on dash cam use? Many thanks.
I will be honest and say I was recently moving through these roadworks quicker than I should have because I was struggling to navigate to an appt I was late for. Definitely made me think.
I learned the lesson of roadworks speed limits maybe 10 years ago. I was driving south on the M4 (the one in Russia), and a bridge was being repaired, the temporary sign read 40 kph. I went onto the bridge at 130, which is how fast everybody drives on a motorway (110 limit+20 naughty threshold). Asphalt was removed from the brigde, which created a downward ramp at the beginning and an upward one at the end, the bridge was about 50 meters long. I hit the brakes after the first ramp, and released before the second slope. The car got properly airborne. Everything was fine, apart from a many bricks shut.
I know it has little to do with roadworks in Ednbra, but it demostrates that there's a reason for slowing down in roadworks areas.
What you say about the mental and psychological impact of fatal collusions is so true. It is always on the forefront of my mind regarding mobile phone usage. It is bad enough for a driver to deal with innocently killing another road user, but I can't even begin to imagine the feelings of guilt if a driver killed someone because they were using their phone at the time.
Ion Onut, the lorry driver who killed 3 people in a crash on the A1(M) near Durham while he was playing with his mobile, has made videos about the effect it had on him. It's clear from watching them that he is devastated by what he did and that it will haunt him for the rest of his life.
I live in Essex and pedestrians are a headache now . There seems to be an obsessive desire to wear black clothes and wander across roads in darkness, and as your vid shows and crossing green signal pedestrian crossings in poor lighting. Another problem we have are illegal E-scooter riders with the same MO ,all black outfit on black scooters and no lighting riding white lines on roads.
Most don’t care…. Trust me.
I was on scene of a fatal accident (recovery driver) as police etc where on scene dealing with drivers.
One driver on route to hospital passed away in the ambulance and a driver was arrested and he was more interested in finishing his phone call than the fact the officer said “you’re under arrest for death by dangerous driving” I would instantly die inside if I know someone had died because of my actions
I mean these are the same people who despite knowing the real risk is killing someone STILL make the decision to use their phone when driving.. am not certain when your on that level of sociopath that actually killing someone would bother you too much.. tis why I think the punishments need to be more severe.. these are dangerous people that society does not need
@@Joe-by8jh I totally agree!!
The rudeness and lack of compassion of many drivers or riders is bewildering! In the United States this is a serious problem in the trucking industry. Many truckers have the mindset that they are the professional and everyone else is borrowing the roads from them. This mindset is creating very hazardous conditions for everyone.
I for one am sick of this behavior.
Thank you for pointing out how ones behavior effects everyone on the road.
I was first at the scene thirty five years ago in Kansas City Kansas, when a young man couldn’t stop on a snowy road in his four by four truck. He never got out though not injured to help. I struggled to stop her bleeding and failed.
I returned home very cold and covered in blood and in tears.
The anger I feel every time I think of this is overwhelming. Angry because he didn’t think of the fact he couldn’t stop any faster just because he could get his vehicle going. Angry that he didn’t even try to help. Angry because I wasn’t prepared for such a situation.
The responsibility of driving or riding on a public road is everyone’s concern. Being prepared is essential.
A similar thing that might be worth covering is when there's a pedestrian crossing and the other lane has cars queuing either side of it. I always slow to a crawl knowing a pedestrian obscured from my view might cross without looking left. A majority of cars in these circumstances seem seem to drive over crossings without slowing down. It always sends shivers up my spine when I see it.
Indeed, a couple of times I've had to shout a warning to pedestrians crossing where a driver was going past in the other lane at speed, one looked quite angry at me until the speeding car missed them by inches.
@@tinakerr8163 I had fourteen pedestrians of various ages using a crossing in front of me not one was taking the blindest bit of notice of their surroundings!
@@marklittler784 This was warned about when they changed the road rules. Unfortunately nobody listened, sadly due to the way politics works it will take decades of research before we even begin to look at the possibility it was a mistake to remove the onus of pedestrians to give a way to giant metal boxes that can kill them.
True they might not be slowing down but the particular type of vehicles at the crossing might not be obstructing their view very much, they are probably paying far more attention at the crossing even though they are not slowing though.
He wasn’t on the hoods where you have perfect brake access on drop bar bikes. That’s suicidal on any urban roads. Never mind when jumping a red!
Nice message to finish with 👍🙏
Hoods or drops, I always have my fingers on or near the levers (Shimano 105). That cyclist was unprepared with his fingers wrapped around the handle bars.
Seems 'drop handle bars' are for Horse's Hoofs...
@@mintywebb I find I have better control and leverage from the hoods. Secondly I always position my hands on the brakes when approaching busy intersections, 100's of ms really matter
Jesus! I didn’t even see that, jumping through a light in a blind junction, and not even covering the brakes, hope he has an donor card on him!
I just can't fathom the headspace of cyclists, or anyone for that matter, jumping a red light. It wouldn't even cross my mind to do it. Absolutely insane.
Yep. Stupidity and selfishness.
Because you're not entitled or selfish, that's why
As a regular red light running cyclist, I definitely can. It’s not selfishness. It’s knowing that no matter WHAT action you take, be it waiting or not, you’re still screwed most of the time. Sometimes it’s better to just go for it and deal with the consequences.
As a small motorcyclist I’ve had to jump a red before a few times because I weigh under 160kg with my bike and that’s not enough to trigger them to change if I’m the only one there. Sitting through several light cycles for 10-15 minutes with no end in sight though is what I would consider the lights being non-functional.
@@gregc9344 In that instance I'd utilize the cyclist's ever-present ability to morph into a pedestrian, and cross on foot.
Crossing on the road, you obey the traffic signals.
There's simply no ambiguity, no room for debate; it's fundamental to the highway code & road safety.
After watching so many of your anlysis I knew exactly why the cyclist was missed. I also was analysing where I was looking when I first watched the clip, I was focused on the pedestrains crossing the road and if I was driving I would have definetly not seen the cyclist.
Yep, same. My first thought "those pedestrians are just going to walk out in front of someone" - assuming the person sending the clip would be a witness to a cyclist ploughing into them. And then BOOM! that cyclist comes out of nowhere.
I’m a regular commuter by cycling. I commute most days to work by bike and am quite bothered how many cyclists represent us.
I think it’s really good as usual you show these videos with you (as always) excellent analysis.
My personal pet pieve is when cyclists change lane without “mirror check”, blindly moving out without knowing what they’re turning into.
As always, great video Ashley. Keep up the good work.
Even worse than that is the cyclists who weave on and off the pavement as it suits them, often without a "mirror check" same as you say for changing lanes.
I mean if I got £1 for every time I've had to tell a cyclist to "get off the fucking pavement" while walking to/from the station on the way to/from work, I wouldn't have to go to work at all and deal with these selfish and moronic cyclists
BS, they represent themselves and no-one else. Do motorists represent other motorists, no they don't ffs!
Just over 8 years ago I was forced to emergency stop when child ran out from between vehicles. He wasn't injured, but I suffered injuries when the car behind me crashed into my vehicle as I held the brakes staring face to face with a terrified child. I was almost physically recovered when I was blindsided joining a queue of traffic on a motorway filter lane 8 months later.
Ever since then, have suffered from recurring pain and PTSD.
This has affected my family and employability.
I will be medicated for life as a result - even though my original actions saved a life.
The drivers head is much further back than the dashcam position which is why dashcams view don't get blocked by the A pillar. Watch it again and imagine an A pillar at the right hand side, less view of the road to the right especially with pedestrians on the side of the road obscuring the view.
Great video as usual, the only thing to disagree with is your comment about dropped handlebars on bikes in urban roads. These are absolutely fine for riding in urban situations, you just need to ride on the hoods with your fingers already on the levers so you are ready to brake straight away. This cyclist did not do this, and his lack of skill meant he missed the levers. I am glad he was not seriously injured, but he needs to rethink his approach to cycling, stopping at all red lights and proceedingscarefully at junctions, or else he needs to get on the bus.
Watching that on a phone, absolutely did not see them first time. I think in real life I may have, they did have a flashing light, but with the amount of people crossing directly in front of me at the traffic lights, there's a good chance I would have tunnel visioned on the pedestrians. I think those pedestrians crossing actually might have made the cyclist think he was safe to go.
That planter location is utterly terrible though.
No he wasn't. He just didn't care. I've seen that million times in London. Red means stop, simple as that.
I think they put the planter there with the purpose to stop cars from using the tram lane ie as a 'safety' feature to avoid traffic chaos.
It would not have been an issue had the cyclist not jumped the red light.
I don't disagree about red meaning stop, and the issue is entirely the cyclist jumping the red, I'm merely commenting on the point that there is a possibility that the cyclist saw people crossing, and assumed that the crossing was active, and not the car lane...
Effectively, the pedestrians have walked in front of a live lane, and he looks like he's trusted they also haven't jumped lights. Rather ironic, really.
I'm watching on a 4k monitor and couldn't even see them. Absolutely shocking.
@@corroded I don't think that's a good excuse as anyone who knows how traffic lights work should know if your lights on red theirs in on green, most likely. not to mention he must have seen cars moving along that lane before the peds crossed whilst his light was still on red so common sense would indicate that is the currently live lane. Unless the cyclist was not paying attention to the lane before he reached it. Also crossing into a lane from that position without even slowing down is just recklessness and i really hope he does not do the same when using a larger vehicle. IMO crossing any busy lane regardless of if you think its active or not should require you to at least slow down enough to see down the lane without driving out into the middle of it. I guess this is a form of modern natural selection but it's a shame it forces ordinary people to be the killers.
Just a comment on the drop handlebars, in themselves they are not an issue in traffic or other difficult situations, they are designed to allow comfortable covering of the brakes and change gears without having to move your hands and to be comfortable while doing so. They also allow for hands to be in different positions to allow for other way of riding, e.g. sprinting or climbing, but these positions do take your hands away from the brakes and should never be adopted in a situation where you may need the brakes. While a lot of it comes down to personal preference, with proper usage I feel drop handlebars can provide better control over the bike as you can actually apply more brake pressure or finer control of brake pressure. The rider in the clip had his hands down on the drops and away from the brakes while going through heavy traffic and while going through a red light. To me this shows additional negligence from the rider as they need the time to move their hands before they can even start applying the brakes and they even managed to fumble it.
Absolutely bang on with that comment. I ride 6000 miles a year commuting on a bike and many more riding with my cycling club, all with drop handlebars. Never have an issue with them as I cover the brakes especially in traffic. It's down to the user to use then properly, in the right hands they pose no problem.
100% agree it is up to the person to adjust their riding to position according to situtation. Was the cyclist in the video using the hoods for a more upright position to increase awareness not that it matters someone who jumps red lights probably does not care about being aware. it Could have been one of the safest city style bike bars if they use them wrong and do not care for their own saftey there is no helping people like that. I love my drop handle bars except replacing the bar tape.
Great spot on hand position. Why do that in traffic? Then again why jump a red light….
I’ve no issue with drop handlebars on the road, it’s easy enough to both brake and change gear especially if gripping the hoods..
CRAP!! drop handlebars are used for acceleration and nothing else,, with upright bars you have better control, better visibility and the brake levers are far easier to use.
Who give a toss about what handlebars are on a bike , DON'T JUMP LIGHTS .
Great video as always, and thank you for sharing some of the stories that so easily get overlooked in such tragedies. It's not an easy subject to discuss, especially when it's concerning people close to you. Being involved in an incident like that can and will affect everyone involved - not just the cyclist, but also the driver and potentially any other witnesses (such as the errant pedestrians). One of my earliest memories is from shortly after a pedestrian stepped out in front of a bus, and my dad and others went to their aid. I don't remember the event itself, only a few things shortly after, but I have little doubt about the lasting impression it's left on me since.
I think the planter itself also needs to be addressed. I'm strongly in favour of more greenery in built-up areas for a number of reasons, but I have a real pet peeve of restricted visibility at junctions, especially where it's caused by avoidable design (or worse still, seemingly as a deliberate strategy to force drivers to slow down further before they enter the junction). In this case, I presume that the planter's there to stop people going down the tram line while it's being installed (either by mistake or to skip queues), but it's quite clearly an inappropriate height, and that was certainly a contributing factor in the incident. In my opinion, it should be removed not only as a direct result of this incident, but also to prevent a more serious one in future.
No, object not at fault. Trams sit there and they are twice as high as the planter, cyclist is taller than object
Definitely easy to miss that, not to mention the ambient light too, it would have looked much darker than the camera makes it out to be and sadly, most road incidents occur during the times of dawn and dusk as our eyes are adjusting from dark to light and light to dark respectively. All the factors Ashley pointed out in addition to this just all contribute to, in this cyclists case, complete ignorance of what could have been totally avoidable if the cyclist adhered to road safety regulations and principles.
Absolutely true. I'd also point out the completely idiotic positioning of that planter. What on Earth were the council thinking?
Looks like the council's introducing roundabouts for pedestrians lol
The blame also lies with whoever placed that circular planter, where it blocks the view across the corner. The cyclist not only jumped a red light but he failed to recognise the reduced visibility due to the roadworks and the planter. He was in effect riding out of a blind exit into moving traffic, suicidal behaviour.
Possible complication from the box junction, but the exit to the right (from cyclist’s point of view) was clear so the cyclist should have checked for traffic from the left. Maybe the exit was blocked a few seconds earlier, so the cyclist assumed that no one would be coming through from his left? But it’s stupid to assume something like that, when your life is on the line…
No. 100% of the blame is with the cyclist. There could have been people stood in that area blocking the view as it appears to be a tram stop / island.
@@MultiMidden And how much blame would you give to one of those pedestrians that ran out when it was plainly a Red for them crossing?
As a cyclist I agree with you.
Why would you even consider putting yourself at risk.
When cycling and a light is red stop.
@@007floppyboy read the highway code, the only thing pedestrians MUST NOT do is loiter on a crossing. Whereas a cyclist MUST stop at a red.
Forget my vulnerability, I just don't want my bike to get damaged when I can prevent it. Consequently the care and awareness that comes with it saves my skin from getting butchered.
Such brilliant, calm and analytical videos. Easily the best content of its kind on YT. I love the fact you are non-partisan which I’ve never seen anywhere else. It’s poor road users who are at fault in any given situation, not the particular vehicle they happen to be controlling; terrible Nissan Micra drivers are almost certainly terrible cyclists. Also, as a IAM driver and cyclist there is always more to learn and watching your vidoes helps me stay safe and helps me keep other people around me safe.
Keep up the fantastic work!
Very good and eye opening video. Thank you for sharing what must have been difficult accounts to relive to help us understand these long term impacts.
Brought me a new perspective, that's for sure.
Several very important messages there Ashley. Serious incidents on our roads cause ripples that we aren’t always aware of or sometimes care to ignore. If we all chose to drop the blinkers and put ourselves in the shoes of others more often this would be a safer, better world.
Can you also imagine the blame game that could have followed without the dash cam footage. My daughter works with horses and we support a campaign for horse riders to not only wear Hi Vis, but to carry a headcam. It's amazing how many more drivers slow down for the horses when they see the headcam. As you say, the effects of these avoidable incidents can be catastrophic to both parties.
People lie about traffic incidents all the time too. It's worth having a dash cam just for that. (Dash cam affiliate links in the description 😉)
@Cycling God There are now some quite prominent "your're on camera" decals available that seem to encourage wide passes.
hi-vis does bugger all and is victim blaming nonense, it takes the responsibilit awa from those presenting the harm.
your anecdote regards headcams is simply that. it hasn't changed a damn thing regards safety outcomes and KSIs on the roads
@@zbf5h89ftb Hmmm.
1 - That cycle lane is not segregated - it is a widish strip of red paint on the road across the junction.
2 - There is full visibility from behind the Give Way line sitting in a car, as the pavements bend out.
3 - For creeping out there is a full 4m of nearside vehicle lane, so it is easily possibly without completely blocking the cycle lane.
So no conflict at all is necessary.
I'd suggest that "cyclist had obviously been going very fast" and "cyclist had no doubt been flying down the cycling lane" is relying too heavily on assumptions.
I have no information on the precise sequence of events, whether the driver pulle dout suddenly etc, but on the charge, I'd suggest perhaps Driving without Due Care since visibility is good and there was no need whatever for the cycle lane to be blocked by a right-turner.
Happy New Year, Ashley. Good video. A very chilling yet vital reminder that, no matter how careful you are, some accidents cannot be avoided. I hope the driver is okay.
I had a very similar thing happen to me while driving a Landrover. Fortunately, I saw him, stood on the brake and missed him by millimetres. I was left, stopped still, with my heart pounding while the cyclist looked back laughing.
Back in 2011 I was cycling straight on, a car overtook me turned left taking me out, I was badly injured but survived, the police did not prosecute but as I’m in the ctc my insurance claimed off the motorist. This has left a lasting impression on me and I no longer cycle in towns and often get off at junctions. Best wishes Jim thanks for all you’re videos.
Has a cyclist and Driver with years of experience, and I know I have good observational awareness, I'd have been lucky to spot the bike. I could see he had lights but I could not tell if they were on. That's my biggest pet hate.
Has it goes, I make a point of riding the same as I drive, obeying the same rules in the same way. I'm tired of this war between road users. I just want to get from A to B safely. I want us all to be safe.
One day, many years ago, I had a postman jump out of his van that had sliding doors, into the back end of the lorry I was driving. He sadly died. Only 21 yrs old. It's why I'm hyper observant has it had a long lasting effect on me. I still can see him in my mirror. I know it wasn't my fault but I could of predicted the possibility if I knew then what I know now. So many people drive without much thought. However, as Ashley says, It should be a mental exercise every time.
@@Cycling-God maybe true, I'm not sure. Even so all things considered, really hard to see him.
Very very sorry indeed to hear the other examples you quoted at the end there Ashley. Until I heard this, I never realised just how much a collision could affect an innocent party. Your message should be something that is repeated regularly on national TV but unfortunately we no longer have Public Service Announcements. How I wish they would bring those back. Your message is also a reminder to all of us regular motorized vehicle drivers to act responsibly and drive to the highest possible standard each and every time we drive.
Lorry drivers have extensive training on cyclists. Cyclists have none. So why not insist that there are short lessons on a loop in cycle shops? ie. Don't go up the inside.
However for red lights, cycling on the pavement, illegal motor bikes [e variety] there is only one solution. The police getting up off their arses and doing some work.
Public service announcements wouldn't do anything. The type of people who jump lights and drive badly are the type of people to ignore safety notices.
@@mintywebb The problem I have is with cyclists and illegal e-bikes. A local junction is running at 1,200 offences an hour, £1.2 million in fines going to waste.
See gandalf's revenge on my channel.
Hi Ashley, thank you for analysing and sharing this video. Unfortunately there are many cyclists who don’t understand the rules or the road, and consequently can’t use them safely. As a cyclist without a license I binge watched all your videos before getting on the road, and even then made many mistakes that I still kick myself over! Maybe this situation could have been prevented if some form of training and licensing were to be required for cyclists. I don’t know how I could live with myself if I killed someone else with my riding, many cyclists today aren’t thinking of other people when they run a red light…
Brilliant explanation.i was both car driver and cyclist and motorcycle rider,and AWAYS new it was my job to keep safe,no one falls off a car
This is a very humbling message for us cyclist, thank you!
I see this happening all too frequently around Manchester amongst the food delivery cyclists.
Recently, made a trip to Copenhagen where cycling is commonplace around the city and the infrastructure is very safe for every road user. Britain lags so far behind its counterparts in creating a road infrastructure that is suitable for every user.
Britain also lags far behind its counterparts in the attitude and approach of cyclists.
When an entitled bozo ignores a red light, then their safety isn't an "infrastructure" issue, it's a "lack of intelligence" issue!
Just get Charlie Veitch to knock the crap out of them.
And our cyclists attitude and approach to using the road lags far behind it’s counterpart’s in other countries … I was visiting London this weekend and I was totally appalled by the cyclists especially the food delivery cyclists who have no regards whatsoever for other road users and pedestrians and most of the ones I saw were on electric bikes and moving much faster than normal especially with a heavy cumbersome load on their backs … also the amount of people on electric scooters which are supposed to be illegal for use on public roads ….. I was especially appalled by one guy going along on the wrong side of the road into oncoming traffic … what a total Knobhead …. They need taking off the roads ….
3rd world GB 🇬🇧 When it comes to its outta date Victorian road infrastructure.., but ignoring Red light and not wearing any bright reflective clothing. Either way he got what he deserved. What an idiot 💩💩💩👊👊👊👊
I definitely wouldn’t have spotted the cyclist if I were in that situation. Massive eye opener this is
I passed my test a year and a half ago and I am thinking of giving up my car. Driving is so hard, between pedestrians who cross when they shouldn't and especially in the dark, dodging potholes and dealing with tailgating due to the audacity to be doing 30 in a 30 area. Driving is too much anxiety and it doesn't really save that much time, as it is difficult to find parking in a lot of places.
Completely understand. I learned to drive in my mid 30s, and I was astonished to find so many angry drivers getting enraged at me for driving at 30mph on a road where the maximum speed is 30mph.
Very frustrating.
I like to drive even slower when someone’s tailgating
Hi Tanya, I understand your feelings. Consider this, from this point on you can only improve your driving skills, you seem concerned about the dangers of driving which makes you safer since many people aren’t screwed on
It's coming up to 3 years now since I passed my test and honestly I had the same as you when I just passed (and some people still do it to me now). Although what I recommend is ignore them and try not to let them get to you. They'll probably overtake you eventually once they've had enough of antagonising you, but you're doing the right thing by keeping to the speed limit.
Just keep calm and make sure you're extra careful to make up for the stupidity of the driver behind you 🙂 At the end of the day, if you have to emergency stop and they collide into you, it's their own fault not yours.
Jaywalkers? Oh you mean speedbumps.
So roadworks, dusk, pedestrians slowly crossing on a green light and a stupidly placed overly large planter. So I don't think I would have avoided that myself.
Would be interested in a video on the effectiveness of street lights these days given I was back in Swansea over Xmas and the council appears to have decided to turn large blocks of them off which led me to missing a couple of exits. Also a comparison of the light output of the old orange sodium lights to the modern led. To how dazzling car headlights are these days especially when the street lights are turned off.
I cycle to work in London and like watching videos like this to help keep myself safe. As a vulnerable road user it's important that I have ways of keeping myself safe because it doesn't have to be my fault for me to be hurt badly. I try to treat everything moving as a risk for myself and the motorists
I iive in Edinburgh and i have cycled this area many times, its changed over the years, we have had construction projects in this area due to the tramworks for the last 14 years, there used to be a roundabout there. What you see in this video will likely change several times more.
I had a cyclist run into the back of my car while I was stationery at a junction. It’s awful seeing them on the ground, police, ambulance all turned up. Guy was Ok.
But then he tried to claim off my insurance for a damaged bike, grazed palms, ripped clothing and time off work. It is fortunate that I had good witnesses and he got shut down, and I suggested the insurance company pursue him for fraud.
But even that minor incident put me off driving for weeks, it was months before I got confident again.
Why did you loose your confidence after an accident that was 100% not your fault?
@@climatechangedoesntbargain9140 cause without witnesses they would've been at found at fault
I had one go in to the side of me at a junction, their fault. I got out and had a go at them and they just left the scene. I never reported it as I knew I'd get most of the hassle even though I did nothing wrong.
I sometimes feel, due to the positioning of the dash cam, its likely got a clearer view of the road, whilst the driver may not. The soonest possible time the cycle would have been seen was probably as they disappeared behind the yellow bollard, on the road. just an unfortunate circumstance to be in.
Agree, my camera is a good 12-18 inches ahead of my eyes and it is behind the mirror, so more to the passenger side of the vehicle.
That could well be the case, and it's quite possible for a hazard approaching from the side to be hidden by the A pillar for seconds at a time. Always bob/weave your head when checking. But I think most of us would just assume that the lights are green so we can proceed.
Rewatching this clip multiple times and reading the comments it’s possible that the cyclist goes when the left only signal turns green, something we’ve seen many times on this channel from other road users and with all the changes from the roadworks it could explain a lapse of judgment, we only have the drivers viewpoint to go off on but to be clear they had very little chance of avoiding the collision due to the numerous obstacles blocking their view
It is a proper nightmare junction, even for cars. The lanes don't follow a natural layout, going around where the cyclist is coming from. And there is even the filter left light on the right side of the road, which doesn't help. Many times you see brake lights coming off in the middle lane when that filter left comes on, only for the drivers to put them back on again
This is too nuanced and neutral a comment for such an emotive subject. Please pick a side and apportion blame
;)
@@richardhall5489 What can I say? I find cycling into oncoming traffic is not the choice of a rational person so before I condemn them to the nuthouse I’d like to know if the road layout had any bearing on their behaviour because this could happen again and the next person might not be so lucky
And the twat going through a red light sheesh
Good video again Ashley. The car driver had no chance. I saw the cyclist on the first replay just before you pointed him out but not on the original. Subsequently, even when you point him out he is very difficult to see. You are absolutely right that the pedestrians were the hazard to watch.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the two road users, I think the town planners could have done better with the sight lines, perhaps the planter could have been a bit lower (half the hight?).
This reminds me of a situation when I was driving home from work in a busy city centre in the dark at rush hour. Two pedestrians ran across a pedestrian crossing without waiting for the lights to turn red (one was chasing the other). They were both wearing dark clothes and I was travelling at approximately 30mph. I narrowly missed them both by a matter of a couple of metres and would've had no chance to stop if they'd ran across the road a second later. I often think about what might've happened if I (and they) had not been so lucky.
Jesus, thats an eye opener, how quickly multiple people pretty much having their life ruined
It only took 10 seconds, and stuff like this doesn't have an "undo" or "retry" button 💔
It took far less. I counted 140 frames from the first in which I can see the cyclist to the impact. That's just over four seconds. [watched the video again - can just about see the cyclist before the car turns left]
Who thought putting a large planter right at the edge of a major junction was a good idea? It's the perfect size to obscure cross traffic and almost eliminates the chance of someone reacting to avoid an incident like this before it is too late. If that planter was not there, It's likely that both the driver and the cyclist could have taken evasive action sooner which may prevent an impact entirely.
City planners need to know that people will jump red lights, and almost completely blocking your view of someone who may be running a red is a significant oversight!
@@zbf5h89ftb what about the innocent people who are harmed by the red light runner? The red light runner is often not the only one affected in the event of a collision... Blocking someone's view of a potential red light runner is stupid regardless of how you look at it.
I had a terrible experience like this. My eyes were on one cyclist who ran a red light in front of me as I was going through a junction who then started to turn around back towards me. Because I was looking at him, I did not see the second cyclist behind my A-pillar who collided with my vehicle. Worst of all, the two cyclists ran that red light in front of a police car sat one vehicle behind the lights, so they were instantly on the scene and they must have saw everything that happened but they claimed that the cyclists went through on orange and that it was more likely that I had jumped the lights! They took a bodycam video statement from me in which I clearly stated all the facts including the positioning of the police vehicle, but then the officer forced me to sign a less detailed written statement on pain of being told that if I didn't, they would have to take me to a police station to take a written statement from me. They also told me that the cyclists didn't blame me and weren't going to make a claim, and that it was 'pointless to make a claim because they don't have insurance'. Lo and behold, the cyclist made a personal injury claim against me, so I had to make a counter-claim. I tried to get the bodycam statement from the police, and even wrote to the IPCC about it, who told the Met to investigate it, who said that because I had given a written statement, the body cam statement was no longer necessary and deleted! The personal injury claim is being handled by my insurers, who say that I don't have a good chance of defence because apparently even if they ran a red light, it looks like I should have been more cautious. I do now have a dash cam, but sometimes I wonder if it would have made a blind bit of difference. If you are interested in looking into this, I am happy to share all the details, Ashley. Your video really resonated with my experience and I appreciate it very, very much.
Dropped handle bars are fine if you're graced with a brain cell or 2. Personaly i have 3, and the spare one left after breathing and pedaling means 1 can keep at least one finger covering the brake when there are potential hazards that may require an urgent change of speed so you (in general) can't over brake and lock up your front wheel and by the time you don't miss lever with the rest of your fingers you can apply oodles of squeezy goodness to the lever and the nicely deformed front tire should be able to take it.. although even that wouldn't have saved that tool.
While I fully agree with most of what you said, I'll have to contradict you regarding dropped handlebars - as long as the bike is adjusted to fit the rider, it's no less safe than straight handlebars (where the brake levers can also be adjusted for too much reach!). The brake levers should be easily reachable both from the drops and the hoods. In dense traffic like this, I'd generally prefer my hands (and eyes!) being a bit higher up, so I'd likely use the hoods, but it shouldn't affect the ability to stop.
Also - who decided to put that planter there?! That's about as close to deliberately provoking accidents as I've ever seen city planners come.
As a racing cyclist of 40 years, I've stayed alive by abiding by red lights, amongst other things.
I disagree that drop bars are inherently dangerous. That comment is disingenuous. At the very least. I agree with the comment above, I'd have been riding on the hoods ( I find it easier to brake and change gears there anyway).
@@billyskoda6839 well, yes, being somewhere at a time you shouldn't be is a reliable way to get hurt. I don't think anyone seriously doubts that, though I never cease to be amazed by just how good people are at ignoring that fact.
Totally agree. I own and ride flat-bar and dropped handlebars, and there is no difference. Regardless if you ride on the hoods or drops, my fingers are covering the levers at all times. I have Shimano 105 which work well. That rider was too careless in every aspect.
@@konradc12 I've got a decent selection of bikes with just about any shape of handlebar and brake configuration out there - the only one that has a seriously increased braking distance is the triathlon bike and that's mostly due to how far forward the centre of gravity is (ahead of the cranks!). Other than that, the bike will almost certainly lose traction long before any difference in the brakes becomes relevant.
@Jan DL1JPH yes, my t.t. bike goes nowhere near towns, or roadworks, or tramlines..
So true and so very sad about the effect it has on people.
A friend’s wife was driving past Stonehenge (the slip road that has now been removed and grassed over). A tourist slipped off the steep bank along the fence line around Stonehenge and fell into the road just in front of her car. She didn’t have time to stop in time, ran into them and killed them. She was traumatised by it and hasn’t driven since and has panic attacks.
Clearly not saying it was the tourists fault, it was an accident. just that car drivers are people too and emotional trauma ti them can be overlooked
I underestimated the effect of this kind of trauma after my partner was a passenger in a car that struck a young cyclist who had pulled out on to a busy dual carriageway. The initial impact was by the vehicle traveling in front but his body was deflected onto the car my wife was in. The man’s remains tore apart and were caught up in the wheel arch, front bumper and undertray. A truly horrific scene for my wife and other people involved. She has never got over it some 15 years later, her whole state of mind is one of pessimism and total aversion to any perception of risk. We very rarely travel long distances by car and she is an incredibly nervous passenger on the shortest of journeys.
I always felt she would get better with time but unfortunately not.
Post traumatic stress from traffic collisions is not always obvious and the effects can be far reaching.
One minute gained by jumping a red light, excessive speed or poor overtake can cost a lifetime of misery and distress.
Another sad story
Going to prefix this with the fact that I'm a very avid cyclist.
But it's very nice to see a calm, critical analysis of an incident and to explain the effect it has had to the driver who was involved through no fault of their own.
It's individuals like this who give us law abiding cyclists a bad name and mean I get regularly victimised on the road by aggressive drivers.
I agree on drop bar brakes being awkward in some areas. There is an option to add some inline bar brakes that takes approx 15 minutes and I have those on my road bike. Anyone interested lookup 'crosstop brake levers' as an example. They are an alternative to the drop brakes and do not replace them.
I live in a busy Northern seaside town and I think they've saved pedestrian collisions many times.
For the rest of the video cyclists do need to take responsibility for red light jumping and I say this as someone who puts in a lot more miles on my bike than in my car.
I can back up the comments about the harm and impact that these people have on others.
My stepmother was hit by a motorcyclist travelling at over 110mph and high on cannabis - killed himself on impact.
She got dragged through the courts, made to feel guilty, tried to kill herself - all with absolutely zero consideration about how she felt about it from 'official' sources. Absolutely outrageous and has made me lose all faith in the courts for anything such as this.
All because of the actions of someone who shouldn't have even been on the road at the time, let alone doing the speed they were.
More than anything these are the reasons why I try and drive as safely, and as defensively as possible - because even if I 'was in the right', it's just not worth the hassel.
Another sad story
Great video, Ashley. I do hope that cyclist gets prosecuted. Cyclists are notorious for ignoring red lights and most times it seems that the authorities cannot be bothered.
That'll never happen and as for reimbursement for any repairs to the innocent motorists car - dream on.
I just hope many learn from this
@mintywebb time for a trip to London to put your theory to the test!
@@ashley_neal I'm afraid Minty's on a team. Evidence is irrelevant.
I think the cyclist made a mistake here. They didn't purposefully ride through on red, but were confused by the temporary road layout due to the road works.
I suggest that everybody blaming the cyclist should take a look at the junction from their POV on google streetview. It's not clear that the cyclist has deliberately jumped the lights. I'm not able to share a link, but the cyclist is heading north along the B901 crossing York Place, and is next to the Conan Doyle pub.
There are three lanes of traffic going left, straight over and right. The right turn lane is already separated from the left and straight on lanes. Going straight over actually entails a slight left kink, but for cyclists there is a painted lane which bends quite sharply left then right to cross the tram tracks at a safe angle.
The three lanes are separately controlled by different lights, but the layout of the lights is very confusing. For the cyclist sat in the ASL, the two lights up ahead appear to refer to the straight across and right turn lanes, but in fact refer to the left turn and straight across lanes. The left turn lane is controlled by a light positioned to the right hand side of the straight over lane, pointing leftwards towards the straight over lane.
If you watch the video closely, the cyclist sets off at the same time as a car which then turns left. Ashley said that they filtered and then jumped the lights, but actually our very first view of the cyclist at 1:04 shows them stationary. So it seems the light controlling the left turn has shown green, and the cyclist has mistakenly read this as a green signal to go straight across.
Normally, there would be plenty of other clues to highlight this mistake. Having, the cyclist is forced to look downwards to follow the cycle lane and avoid getting tangled in the tram tracks. Then the giant planter is obscuring their view of the traffic crossing their path. Finally, if they saw the pedestrians crossing, it would have seemed to be another cue to confirm that their way was clear.
I think this interpretation makes far more sense than to assume that the cyclist deliberately jumped the lights, then knowingly rode blindly across a live lane. The cyclist was confused by the terrible traffic light setup, made a mistake which was compounded by the dreadful junction design. This junction is a serious accident waiting to happen and a large part of the blame must lie with the council.
Hey, I saw your reply to mine. After reading what you had to say, I would agree with it for the most part.
I suppose the confusion with the lights would depend on where the cyclist was looking, the set of lights at the stop sign are pretty apparent and should not of caused confusion, however the advance set of lights look as though they are signalling one lane to the right of where they actually are (the left turn only light is pointing to the straight on lane, and the straight on (and right turn) light could be perceived as pointing toward the right hand lane, so I see where you are coming from there.
In Edinburgh pedestrians dart out in front of vehicles and jaywalk all the time so for a local Edinburgh road user this wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) be an indication on what the traffic was doing.
As I alluded to in my comment though, I fully agree that the junction design is horrendous. It started off as a awkward junction, then they retrofitted some of it to be a one way system, then they retrofitted it again for the tram tracks, and 9 years later it is still a construction site. and on top of that someone decided to put a massive planter that is bigger than the cars in the middle of it to mark that the track was not in use... Edinburgh City Council are truly a breed of their own (they are notorious for just doing things without asking the city or thinking through the consequences).
I still hold the opinion that the cyclist is at least partially to blame for not appropriately assessing the situation (whether it be due to distraction or inexperience) but the junction itself, and those responsible for the state its in definitely did not help in the slightest. One thing I would like to advocate en lieu of this is that cyclists can dismount and travel on foot as pedestrians if need be, so if you ever need to cross an incredibly busy road or overly complex junction, it may be safer to dismount when you are able to and use the pedestrian crossings to overcome the obstacle.
Assuming confusion with the lights, would you still be saying they were blameless if it was a motorist instead of a cyclist? A motorists in this situation would likely be charged with “driving without due care and attention”. Is there a cycling equivalent of that charge?
@@thomasnichol5127, I'm not saying they're blameless, but I do think it reduces their liability. It's not all or nothing. In your example, the difference between deliberately crossing the junction in a car and doing so by mistaken having been confused by sub-standard infrastructure would be the difference between "dangerous driving" and "driving without due care and attention". I would have thought.
You should check out Ashley's most recent video, he analyses this in more detail.
Thanks for your all your efforts to stop people jumping red lights.
I was witness to a similar incident, where some guys, pedestrians jumped a red light, a girl thinking all was ok without checking, also stepped out onto intersection, straight in front of a van. Last I heard that she was still unconscious months later. Just think of all the people traumatised, the parents and other family members; the driver; other pedestrians watching, including myself and who knows who eles.
I'm really struggling at the minute. I was involved in my first accident in 6yrs of driving actually only a few days after this incident on your video where someone pulled out of a junction in front of me as I was on the main road. Luckily it wasn't high speed and all parties were okay and cars were able to be driven off. My insurance have said it was not my fault and have images and dash cam from me and I've kept my no claims. But third party are denying liability and also claiming personal injury. I cannot get my vehicle repaired as liability has not yet been established and its such a mentally draining process I just want it all to be over with. I'm doing everything I can by ringing insurance weekly for updates. I've provided everything as well as signed truth statements and I feel like I am being penalised for an accident that was not my fault yet I'm still driving a damaged car. It really prays on my mind most days.
2 things as an ardent cyclist...fellow cyclists...stop jumping red lights! And ,drivers you aren't much better even though you think you are, Vent over, happy new year stay safe
I want to echo this.... unfortunately its this repeated action that gets us all tarnished as "bloody cyclists", despite many of us obeying the rules.
As a pedestrian and driver I'll add pedestrians.
@@tony_w839 The law on red lights applies only to vehicles and not to pedestrians.
@@mintywebb Do you have a source for that? What's certainly true is that a car jumping a red light is far more dangerous than a bicycle. In the clip, no one was injured but had it been the other way around with the car jumping the red light and hitting the cyclist, it might have been very different.
Don't take that as an excuse for the cyclist in the clip who was totally at fault and broke the law,
Whether or not car driver aren’t much better doesn’t make the wrongdoings of cyclists any less serious. Shouting “drivers are worse!” isn’t going to stop you from being killed or seriously injured
Absolutely no way with all of that going on would I have spotted the cyclist. Especially with him being hidden behind that bollard. I would be interested to know if the cyclist took responsibility for their actions or blamed the newly qualified driver
I would not have done either. I agree about the driver's speed being appropriate & there was plenty going on to be cautious of. Unfortunately this could traumatise the driver for a very long time.
I watched the video over and over. With the benefit of all that hindsight, I would have spotted the cyclist. However, if, while I was looking out for the cyclist, one of the pedestrians had done something unexpected, they'd have copped it.
That poor driver did everything right, I too was concentrating on the pedestrians and missed the bike until it road into the car.
Great clip, thank you for posting it. Also it’s great to see that you said “the cyclist” instead of “cyclists” and that your comment section isn’t filled up with car/bus/HGV drivers moaning about cyclists and how they shouldn’t use the road “as they don’t pay road tax”. I’ve seen plenty of cyclists related clips with people moaning about them, you’re right that the cyclists was in the wrong, but it’s nice to see fair and balanced comments being made.
Agree with the video entirely.
One comment though. You reference comments from ‘cyclists’ about how this scenario only endangers the cyclist physically.
In my opinion, that comment is almost exclusively made in response to people who argue for cyclist licensing and registration, not in defence of running red lights. It’s a logical pushback again people who think cyclists should be registered etc. So I think it’s a bit disingenuous to mention this in the context you have here, as I don’t know many people who openly defend the right for anyone on a bike to run red lights.
That’s just my experience though.
As someone who rarely comments, thanks for the videos - I really enjoy them.
Didn't see the cyclist first time through (was focussed on the pedestrians) and even struggled to spot him after you pointed him out. One point you made was how difficult it might be to claim recompense from a cyclist who is 100% to blame, for any dmage or injusries. Is it time that cyclists too had to have some sort of 3rd party insurance?
The principle might be OK, but the practicalities are too daunting. Who would police it? How would you check?
@@chrispop99 a number plate, like normal cars? I am a cyclist, and I have a fairly neutral position on this. Don't forget, insurance works both ways. It can help you out as well as the other party.
@@SPTSuperSprinter156 This has been discussed many times by cycling organisations and the police, but is widely held to be unworkable.
Many bikes have nowhere to mount a number plate for example. The number plate would only identify the bike, not the rider. There would be many objections regarding civil rights. A pedestrian not obeying road rules can cause a crash resulting in damage; would they also have to be insured?
The only country in the world where bikes have number plates is North Korea, by the way.
@Cycling God There's the problem - getting information to actually identify them, and then hoping they have enough money to cover damages.
A large majority of people riding bikes do have third party liability insurance, since it usually comes packaged as a free inclusion (the risks being so low) with House Insurance.
You probably have the same cover on your own household policy.
Mine is a normal policy that gives me that for the whole family.
I also get international cover bundled in with a packaged bank account from Nationwide.
Though TBF I have just rejoined Cycling UK of which one of the benefits in addition to insurance is highly skilled lawyers on my side, should they be needed.
The "but but .. insurance!" argument is generally as empty as the "but but ... road tax" one (roads being funded out of general taxation and 80-90% of people on bikes also being people with cars).
The thing that really grinds my gears, and it happens a lot where I live, is that planter. Or those stupid neatly maintained hedges at the edge of the sidewalk, which obstruct all view for someone exiting a T-junction. If I have no physical possibility to see someone, I will not see them, and it doesn't matter if they did or didn't do something wrong.
Where I live, we have those hedges, and every time I need to exit into a quite busy road, I am shooting dice, because looking is not going to help. Inching works to a point, but to get to where you can actually see if you can go or not the front bit of the car already occupies half of the first lane, at which point an accident will happen anyway. So I inch as much as possible, looking mostly for roofs or cars, which if the light is right can be sometimes seen, I take down the window to hear anything around, and the moment I step over the lane boundary, just pray and floor it. Less time in a dangerous position, less probability an event will happen.
Opinion on the video: cyclist is at fault for jumping the red light, but whoever put that planter there, has at least 70% of the blame for the accident.
On the other hand, knowing they jumped a red light, the cyclist could have slowed down when his view of the road was obstructed by the planter, and proceed with caution until he had the full view.
Further, I would argue more and more for license and insurance for cyclists.
There is one instance where America is genuinely safer, the setback, its iillegal in most municipalities to plant hedges or build fences within the set back, at the very least it give the pedestrians and unobstructed view, with only city planted trees as the possible block to their view. even with vehicles parked its very easy for both the pedestrian and the car driver to see each other, like in this example most vehicle vs Pedestrian/cyclist accidents occur when either the vehicle or the pedestrian/cyclist violate the rules of the road.
As for the cycling infrastructure I prefer the way it is in Minneapolis, where the frontage on the rivers are almost always public parks with dedicate Bike paths that lead into the suburbs and domestic neighborhoods of the city, and bike lanes generally stay on one way streets greatly reducing conflicts within traffic. Minneapolis is currently on a two year run without a single fatality due to cyclist being hit by cars, at the moment more people have dropped dead on their bicycle from heart attack.
I don’t think I’d portion 70% of the blame to the person who put the planter there, maybe more like 30% or 40%. Yes it’s a bad place for it to be, but the cyclist was essentially gambling with their life when they ran the red light. I feel that wilfully going through a red light must give you at least half of the responsibility for the accident.
@@markeyonethousand Yes, running through a red light is bad, and the cyclist should own his mistake.
Red lights, though, can be run by mistake, or not paying attention. Especially by beginners, for whom there is an overload of information, and the observation routine is not yet honed enough. This can happen because of target fixation, or other distraction. Please don't think I argue that this is an excuse by any length.
But mistakes happen. That's why the road engineers should plan the roads keeping in mind various possibilities for people to make mistakes. If they can minimize the potential for road events they should. And if they don't, they (road engineers) should be held responsible. These are people with degrees in the field of road safety, so they should be held up by a higher standard than you average driver or cyclist.
@@lazyidiotofthemonth I just love how easy is to drive in the USA. I have been to Pennsylvania, Texas and Florida. You really need to be distracted out of your mind or dead drunk/high/sleeping at the wheel to have an accident over there.
I don't understand all the videos saying that USA driving is the worst and all that. Maybe they have not been to Eastern Europe.
I find drivers over there (especially Texas) to be very polite and accommodating. Everyone seems to understand that traffic needs to flow. So they make space for you if you wish to change lanes, and you do the same in return. I drove almost 7000 miles in TX and I din't have anyone honk at me, or make me feel uncomfortable.
And for an unpopular opinion: 4/all way stops are way better/safer/better for flow than roundabouts.
@@bogdananca I agree, roundabout are not safe or remotely smart when you have to deal with snow, removing snow from a roundabout is a huge pain in the ass.
Prioritise the biggest risk but DO NOT focus on it. The worst dangers come while you are focusing on another. Keep scanning. Even if you want to remember what you grandma would say, bad things come in threes. If you see one, be on the look out for the others.
Another great video I couldn’t agree more about red light jumpers, as a cyclist myself it drives me mad as it puts me in more danger on a bike as these red light jumpers annoy drivers making some drivers hate cyclists more as always the few ruin it for the many.
The only point I disagree with is that drop bars are not safe in a city environment you do not need to be on the drops to use the levers and any cyclist with a brain should plan ahead just like we do in a car meaning the leaver location should not be an issue. If I have missed your actual reason for drop bars being an issue would be great to start a discussion.
Keep the great work up love the videos
I like this guys the way he explains everything is just 1st class.
Keep up the good work.
I learn with every video I watch.
The lights on the cyclist side are tricky as hell, not to mention quite recently implemented, and will catch you out if you're not paying attention. He must've seen the left only green and gone ahead, this has almost caught me out a few times. The planter there is lethal.
It's BUSY there - there are people everywhere coming and going. DON'T JUMP THE LIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very simple. Wait like everyone else does for your turn. There are other people there too. Wouldn't they like to get where they're going quicker too?
@@pauleff3312 I’m saying he might not have released he’d jumped the lights. Keep screaming in to the void my man 👍
We, cyclists, face other problems as well. This time I can see most clearly how the cyclist is at fault, but sometimes road users make it so difficult for us that I do not even know why I am still cycling. For example, when you make a mistake, some drivers will use their vehicles as a weapon to punish you without taking into consideration that sort of behaviour can result in an accident. In addition to this, they give you no room to maneuver and the common practice is you will be pushed to the side of the road if you dare to cycle 2 or 3 feet from the curb taking some of their space. I am not even going to mention people crossing the road looking at their phones which poses a clear health & safety risk and places the whole responsibility for their safety and well-being on you. I know you need to take extra precautions when you are on the road, but I think this is everyone's responsibility.
Ignoring a red traffic light (irrespective of the vehicle involved) is simply arrant stupidity.
Also, some cyclists think it's a game to prevent cars from passing safely.
Yeah, no.
Cyclists shouldn’t be on the road at all. Almost all of you think that you’ve got the same rights but at the same time act as if you’re above others.
Every morning, on my commute to work, there’s a cyclist blocking the road during rush hour, creating almost a mile long traffic jam… all while there’s a completely empty and wide sidewalk he can use instead of screwing 20-30 people over.
@@Owlmare overall, bikes reduce road traffic.
@@Andrew-it7fb Outside peak hours. During rush hours they make it worse.
Edinburgh is a nightmare at the moment anyway because of the TramWorks - this highlights perfectly why cyclists are utterly thoughtless when they do this. Their friends, family and the people who get involved in accidents they cause are affected for life when things get serious. Thanks for highlighting Ash.
And of course, car drivers are thoughtful..gotcha
@@spm36 do you think so?
@@mintywebb was he. Surely not!
this is an exceptionally well done and heartfelt report!
They say the cyclist is the only one who's going to get hurt? Tell that to my elderly neighbour who was hospitalised with a broken hip after being hit buy a cyclist running a red light at speed. As a cyclist myself I NEVER jump red lights, and have been shouted at by other cyclists on several occasions because of it. The driver in this clip is 100% not at fault, and I hope they recover all costs from the cyclist.
@@zbf5h89ftb Yep, I filtered through the traffic, and stopped at the stop line, which blocked cyclists behind me from going through the red light. I got called some nasty names. i dont care. cyclists should stop at reds like everyone else.
I did see some movement (which happened to be the cyclist), but that's because I was looking out for it lol. Also the dash cam will be a slightly different view to what the driver could see from within the car - and in this situation, with lots of other things going on and things obstructing the view, I most likely wouldn't have seen the stupid cyclist either.
On the point about cyclists only risking their own skin: absolutely agree about the wider impact on mental health and the families. Also, if a cyclist jumps a red light and causes cars to swerve or brake harshly, that could create a collision with other cars or pedestrians nearby. So it's not just the cyclist putting their own physical safety at risk.
Glad the viewer is taking action against this selfish idiot, and I hope he gets his comp.
Really interesting to hear your view of drop handle bars. Not something I had considered before. I use straight bars on my bike and will often have my fingers poised on the brake lever in potentially hazardous situations.
To be honest I rode drop handle bar bikes for years, you can cover the brakes just fine in two out of the three hand positions (the third position, the tops, is a relaxed position you wouldn't use unless going at a low speed anyway, plus it is possible to install redundant brake levers in this position if it really matters). Don't blame the bike for its poor rider.
You can do the same on drops - in fact, it's more comfortable than on straight as the hand automatically falls on the lever if you ride on the hoods. The real error (apart from going through a red light and being oblivious to the traffic - note how late the cyclist sees the car) is not having the finger on the lever in traffic/dangerous situations.
On dropped bars, they can have a superior advantage in control in corners and comfort. I can brake more effectively if my hands for the last 2 hours have been able to shift between different positions than if they are stiff having used a "T-bar" bike.
While I agree with @ashley_neal's analysis of this one, I think a large percentage of the blame for this collision has to be given to Edinburgh Council and Transport for Edinburgh.
I live about 10 minutes from this junction and regularly see people (on all modes of transport) jump red lights here, as well as commit other questionable (travel related) acts. I think this is due to very, very, very poor road design. (Going off on a tangent, I would say this is due to a desire by a few people to cram a new tram line in to an already crowded space).
Going back to this particular incident: If you're travelling from the cyclist's direction, and aren't familiar with the junction, it's very easy to mistake a green light for turning left (from Leith Street on to York Place) as a green light for going straight on (from Leith Street on to Broughton Street). I'm not sure the cyclist intentionally jumped the light.
Even worse, given the frequency that they change the layout of this junction, it's very possible to come through here one day, and for it to be different the next. Sometimes they change the junction in a very subtle way, that would be easy to miss, with no clear signage.
This is the best comment! You are spot on. If you watch carefully, you can see the cyclist is actually stopped waiting at the red light, in the advanced cycle box.
As the lights change, they move off with the left turning traffic, probably on amber and missing that it’s a green left arrow only. But this is mainly due to the very poor placement of the traffic lights. There’s no way a green arrow should be positioned to the right of this junction, nor should it illuminate following an amber sequence - usually left green filters are an extra signal that illuminate whilst the main lights are still showing red.
@@shm5547 living and driving in Edinburgh, I agree with you both. Not only is the lane sequence unnatural (coming from Leith Walk, you have to stay left to go round to Queen Street - whereas most people are in the right lane and then shuffle across), there seems to be an 'extra' set of lights on the right hand side of the middle lane, with the filter left. I also believe the cyclist misread that and went through unintentionally
It's crazy to me that the pedestrians are crossing through a green like that, too!
My father killed a pedestrian when he was a bus driver. He was totally cleared of any blame - there were multiple witnesses both on the pavement and on his bus who all stated there was nothing he could've done. The guy stepped off the pavement into the path of the bus literally a split second before being hit. He ended up crushed under the wheels. Dad had to get off the bus and see his mangled body.
He carried on driving that route for another 6 months. Then one day, at the spot where the accident occurred, he stopped the bus and asked everybody to get off. He radioed in and told the depot he couldn't carry on. He had a nervous breakdown. I came across a photo of dad at a family gathering during his breakdown. It was upsetting. The only way I can describe his look is akin to what the American soldiers in WW2 called the "Thousand yard stare".
Although it doesn't detract from the point of the video...
This junction does constantly have drivers making the same mistake here, have enough video from my bike I don't even highlight it in recording anymore.
The way the left turn and straight on lights are separate lights and the right turn is even further off on a separate pole, all of them with the full 3 lights (RAG) in a vertical line
The week after this video was recorded there was a car v car exact same situation, front wheel mangled police on scene.
Looked like he was quite surprised by the car (suppose you would be either way tbh) but reckon this could have been an unintentional jump, traffic in left turn lane proceeding through green and had he just checked the wrong lights like so many other drivers.
End of the day he is still at fault and wouldn't apportion blame to the driver but if I was there I would not cycle so close to an obstruction paying such little attention to it, especially at peak time in a busy area. Treat it like parked cars and expect a child to jump out from it at any second.
I really struggled to see our cyclist. There’s so much going on down a street like this. A box junction needs awareness of; my lesson is that as a cyclist I need to keep some responsibility for our safety.
Totally agree about the dropped handle bars, I ride a racer but try and use a hybrid in the town.
Speaking as a community mental health nurse, thumbs up re the mental health message. Thanks.
Drop handlebars are safer! You just have to hold them in The Hoods position in urban environment...
There’s far too much of this “terrible cyclist jumps red light” and far too little of “too many road users don’t obey the law and the rules”. A car or lorry or bus jumping a light is far worse in its potential effects than a cyclist doing it. The majority of deaths and injuries in road collisions are the responsibility of motor vehicle users, not cyclists.
Stop trying to disassociate cyclists with poor road use. It happens and it affects many people
@@ashley_neal I’m not. Can’t you read? I specifically said “too many road users don’t obey the laws” which includes cyclists, and includes pedestrians. There’s too much focus in these “road safety” videos on UA-cam (and TikTok) which aim to paint cyclists as the only people who disobey the laws and rules of road use. But… cyclists are responsible for very few deaths and serious injuries to others whereas motor vehicle users are responsible for very many, for in fact the overwhelming majority of deaths. Cyclists who (for instance) disobey red traffic lights are at serious risk of physical harm, but motorists who disobey them are at serious risk of physically harming others as well as themselves. I have a driving license for Class C, B, and A vehicles and I cycle and walk. I’ve been injured by inattentive pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists, and car/van drivers. I’ve been injured by my own errors too. There’s one difference between all of my motor vehicle injuries and the other injuries: the driver of the vehicle was unhurt and they refused any blame in all but very few instances even if they’d disobeyed road markings or signage or failed to look properly. The point is (which you miss) that everyone is at fault at some point, whether deliberate or inadvertent, but it’s far too often the cyclist who is blamed simply because “you don’t pay road tax” or “you’re holding me up” or “use the cycle lane” even if it’s full of leaves and broken glass and other debris. It’s every single road user, and I’m sick of cyclists being singled out as the bad guys. I have worked as a firefighter and I’ve been to many road collisions. None involved a cyclist and all the deaths involved a car being driven too fast or too aggressively. But yeah: it’s bad naughty terrible cyclists making the roads deadly.
I can read, look at your first sentence. The reason I made this video was because of people with your attitude, and I hope you watched until the end. An attitude of "The cyclist never injures anyone" is simply wrong. As a firefighter you should totally understand how things you witness affect you long term, even though you may never be at fault. By the way, who mentioned “you don’t pay road tax” or “you’re holding me up” or “use the cycle lane”? or is that your chip on your shoulder?
@@ashley_neal I never said “cyclists never injure”. I said motor vehicles cause more injuries. Do you ride a bike on the road? Have you any idea what it’s like? I strongly recommend that you do, because your attitude will change. You’ll realise just how vulnerable you feel, how intimidating cars are and how dangerously they are driven.
Of course cyclists do stupid things - your video is evidence of this. But a stupid and careless cyclist is far less dangerous than a stupid and careless car driver or a stupid and careless lorry driver. You’re focusing on the cyclist. You ought to be focused on human behaviour regardless of their mode of transport. Then you’ll understand that it’s not cyclists who are the problem.
It’s people.
Go ride a bike.
But for goodness sake be careful.
You’ll be much more careful as a driver afterwards, I guarantee it.
@@ashley_neal the people who mention “you don’t pay road tax” etc are the people who hit me when I’m cycling. The car drivers.
The ones who don’t pay road tax either.
The one’s driving too fast for the conditions.
The one’s driving too close.
The ones who don’t care about my safety, just about not being late because they left it too late to leave.
I make mistakes.
I’ve been at fault.
But when I’m at fault in my car it’s much much more serious in its potential for harming others.
No one is perfect.
Cycling is much safer than driving when there are no cars about.
I want to comment to say I do not believe the cyclist knowingly* "jumped" the red light - you can see the surprise in his face that a car was going through the junction when he was.
As a resident in Edinburgh, I've been through this junction multiple times from the cyclists direction and I've seen many many cars go through the same red light. There's a left filter light which comes on and at that point, I've seen cars go straight through this junction and not even realise they were jumping a red light. The junction + roadworks are an absolute mess and I'm surprised there's not been more accidents happen due to it.
I think you are right. Looking at streetview, the markings on the road for the cycle path make it look like the cycle path is going to the left, but then it swings right at the planter. Terrible road layout and sightlines.
I guess the planter is there to block the tramline, but surely there's a better solution.
I’m a cyclist and drive for a living 8 hour week on bike and 25 hour a week. Car. I’d have missed the cyclist behind the pointer. Too. Looking forward PT2 and taking legal civil action damages caused cyclist. Correctly
Was wondering why there was a vehicle turning into York Place at 0:14, so looked at the Street View from the cyclist's direction. There are filtered lights for turning left from Leith Street into York Place or straight on from Leith Street to Broughton Street. Then there's a separate set of lights for turning right from Leith Street into York Place. Let's play devil's advocate here and look at it from the cyclist's POV. He's waiting to go straight on at Leith Street (watch it at x0.25 speed and you can see he's stationary at 0:09), with a vehicle to the left of him wanting to turn left into York Place. The left filter light must have turned green, as both the cyclist and motorist react and move off (0:11). Giving him the benefit of the doubt, the cyclist has mis-read the lights, not realising the straight ahead filter light is still red. This could be an explanation for why he didn't expect a car to be crossing in front of him (crossing pedestrians also gave some comfort) and was therefore so late in braking. He's also following the cycle lane markings on the road which unfortunately pass right in front of the giant planter. Doesn't detract from the fact that the cyclist is still 100% to blame for not reading the junction and the lights correctly, or for the overall message of Ashley's video.
I'm more inclined to believe that the cyclist mistakenly thought he was crossing on green. The junction looks hideously confusing from google street view. The cyclist would at that point have been focused on following the winding cycle path and avoiding getting tangled in the tram tracks, and his view of the approaching vehicles is obscured by the box while seeing the pedestrians cross would have appeared as an additional cue that his way was clear.
I think it's a massive failure on Ashley's part to not even attempt to consider the cyclist's view of things. He's just assumed the cyclist is guilty.
yes, absolutely agree with you
All agreed except for your residual blame of the cyclist. He did not have a red; the red was showing for the separate carriageway for right-turning traffic. On his carriageway, he had a green, which had appeared in both the physical position and in the sequence of the lights which belongs to an unrestricted green "proceed with caution" signal. Some total idiot had mounted a left-arrow filter signal in that position that was completely irrelevant to the lanes on either side of that traffic light. If you go through the traffic-light sequence, they only make sense if you assume that the pair of three-aspect lights between the two carriageways sometimes control the carriageways on their own sides of the island, but sometimes swop over without warning so that they control each other's carriageways!
The only thing that the cyclist did wrong was to trust that the person designing the traffic light system had an IQ over 60 and at least a slight inkling about how traffic lights are supposed to work.
There is going to be a mountain of humble pie to be eaten by all the people who have been throwing brown stuff at this innocent cyclist. And, I suspect, there will be big and well-deserved payouts to him from the authorities that almost caused his death. (Absolutely not from the motorist, of course, who is equally a victim, and who also should be compensated.)
@@kgbgb3663, I genuinely wonder whether these traffic lights conform to a minimum safe standard. As you say, their placement is absolutely baffling. If nothing changes, somebody will get killed here.
@@matttrevers2552 I'm surprised they lasted a week in their current state. I would have thought that someone local would have started a campaign to get them replaced by something at least roughly consistent with normal practice and accepted conventions, precisely because they are so obviously potentially fatal. I can't for the life of me understand what was in the minds or the people who designed them, approved them and installed them. The _only_ reason I can think of for doing it the way they did is to save a few quid on separate filter lights. That can't _really_ be the motivation, can it?
Perfect reason why cyclists should have insurance!
How do you know they don't, I have insurance, what about pedestrians, have you got insurance for yourself and family in case they walk out into a car or bicycle?
@@WhosPhotoTube Cyclists use roads to travel, like cars, busses, lorries etc, so should have insurance along with number plates. Your argument is more about life insurance. Doesn't make sense.
@@martynllPhotography Do pedestrians not also use roads? The reason that vehicles need insurance and plates is because they pose such a high risk of killing others. The number of deaths caused by vehicles supports this.
@@timrathbone Here come all the cyclists 🤣🤣 This video is perfect proof of why cyclists that ride on the roads, and use roads as their main means of travel, should have plates and insurance. If those lights were camered lights, the cyclist would be fined for running the red. The insurance would pay out to the driver of the car he damaged. Instead the car owner who was in the right, has to struggle to get contact and have to take the cyclist no doubt to court in order to get paid out. Something Insurance would sort if the cyclist had it. there's really no argument here. If cyclists stuck to the rules of the road when using them, this accident wouldn't have happened...
Not sure it would be fair to tax cyclists twice 🤷🏻♂️😂
Cyclist might have been easier to spot if he'd had a static front light...
Exactly this. In dark clothing,no lights and making stupid decisions.
@@mintywebb I watched it a couple of times and missed the light .!
Well, when a flashing light is off-flash, it's erm, off.
I'm a cyclist and am fed up with seeing either red light jumpers or cyclists without lights. Those people are just asking for trouble. I wear a bright yellow jacket and have good strong lights so it's hard to miss me. Regarding your video, that planter is in a terrible spot. Whose idea was it to place it there where you can't see traffic coming from the right? It's ridiculous. And you're right about the effects an accident like that can have on other people, not to mention those involved. I wish everyone was more responsible on the roads.
I drive past that junction every week, with the tram roadworks there things change very often. In Edinburgh there are plenty cyclists who jump red lights whenever they want to. But they expect respect from car drivers. Respect needs to be earned IMO.
I always hang back and give cyclist plenty room. But you can't account for a situation like in the video. Ash is dead right, every road user needs to drive responsibly. And jumping a red no matter what your reasoning is always gonna get you in trouble.
Keep up the good work, your videos make me always think about my driving when I'm out in the truck. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️👌
Having looked at the junction on google, it looks incredibly confusing. Is it possible that it was a mistake rather than a deliberate light jump?
Watching this footage again, I think it's clear that the cyclist was not expecting traffic to be crossing his path. To me this suggests he thought his light was green. Coupled with seeing the pedestrians crossing, he took that as meaning that his way was clear.
@@matttrevers2552 totally agree with you. Cyclist would have had to be proper kamikaze to do that deliberately. I think it was a misread of the lights, compounded by the hidden line of sight
@@euan1234 in Edinburgh they are suicidal and complacent. Council, media and police always takes the cyclists side, cyclists in Edinburgh feel untouchable
@@elliotwilliams7421 I don't ride in the city myself, but surely it is better to keep safe and follow road laws rather than ride into an incident and feel "protected" regardless of physical harm? (I'm not talking about this incident, just in general).
@@euan1234 you would think. It creates an air of complacency as most cyclists haven't had an actual injury from cycling. A
Your thinking is a bit idealistic. I could apply it to drivers.....'surely its better for drivers to obey the laws and be considerate than loose a license, end up in jail etc........'