I personally think that when entering/exiting a roundabout with 2 lanes on approach would be incredibly dangerous to stop and let a pedestrian cross. Your vehicle creates a massive blindspot and pedestrians may not recognise that there are 2 lanes of traffic. All it takes is a vehicle unaware of the pedestrian who you stopped to allow cross...
There are many roundabouts that have a physical pedestrian crossing. It's down to any following vehicle to maintain a safe gap to the vehicle in front, no matter.
@afitzsimons yes, agreed. However I'm talking about roundabouts with 2 lanes on approach. Say you are in lane 1 and stop to allow a pedestrian across, often vehicles drive too fast in lane 2 past you, subsequently hitting the pedestrian who assumed it was safe to cross. You did everything you could to follow the rules and make it as safe as possible, but unfortunately not everyone has that same mindset.
@@lee53_ absolutely agreed, in this situation you are making it safer for the pedestrain if you DON'T stop.... by all means slow down just in case the pedestrain decides to step out but don't stop
@@afitzsimons yes but in this situation we need to prioritise safety over responsibility. In other words, you have to ask yourself "which is the lesser of 2 evils?" - Do I stop for a pedestrian and risk them being hit by a vehicle coming past me in lane 2, OR do I approach with caution but don't stop and then the pedestrain stays put and doesn't get hit?
Absolutely, this is really dangerous, there are lots where I live, and are busy with pedestrians. All need crossings installed. In the van I can block other vehicles but obviously this is less than ideal.
Here in the Netherlands, if pedestrians have priority on a roundabout, there will be a zebra crossing and yield markings for cars. If those aren't there, pedestrians have to wait. Honestly, seeing the rule change you guys had without accompanying adjustments to the infrastructure, I got very confused. I've never really seen pedestrian priority at a two lane roundabout either over here, it just seems so dangerous.
This 100%. I agree entirely with the principle of the rule. But it's an example of the government trying to change something by placing all the onus on poorly-educated drivers without any real commitment to or funding for redesigning urban roads to discourage speed. In this video Ashley is driving round some quite polite suburban roundabouts in quiet traffic. For bigger roundabouts on major routes, at busy times, with multiple exit lanes crossed by pedestrians, I'd venture that very few of us have the skill and awareness to manage the traffic behind us, given existing infrastructure.
It's a good solution but what with Shengen and drivers from other nations who have marked crossing points that don't require them to stop, in their homelands, it's unsurprising that even in a straight line at a compulsory UK zebra crossing, they too often don't stop.
If something has been initiated and its been done half arsed and with little consideration. The UK governemt have probably done it. Look at the 2030 ICE car sales ban. Its 7 years away and the infrastructure is no where near close to being able to support mass EV adoption. It cannot cope as it is today.
I am a professional driver and ive had some ADI training in the past, but I still stand by my comment that the give way on the exit of busy roundabouts is dangerous. You can control traffic behind to a certain degree, but the state of people's driving nowadays is just shocking and far too many times people will take risks and will just over take in a rush to get in front. I deal with this kind of 'beat the bus' mentality every day. Few years ago i slowed in plenty of time in a large bus at a Zebra crossing, for a man and his two young children to cross. i spotted in my driver mirror a car behind who as usual sees a stopped bus and think oh i HAVE to overtake!!! i quickly got on horn and screamed at the guy to stop as he was in front of me already on the crossing, he did and the car overtook me on the Zebra crossing at speed!! the man was screaming abuse at the car driver and thanked me for saving him and his daughters!! everyday people see a stopped bus and try to over take then spot traffic in front of me and do the whole slowly pulling back in behind in shame!!! A new driver with P plates jumped a red light light and went right in front of my bus just yesterday, with the look through the drivers window at me as 'what's the problem???' well those lights have a red light jump camera, so that was captured no doubt, but if people can't even follow simple driving techniques like this, then we have no hope of people doing this correctly or safely! all i see is pedestrians getting hurt am afraid.
With you on this; it's not every driver, it's the handful of idiots who make these situations dangerous - but you have to drive as if it is every driver for the safety of the vulnerable.
@@hairyairey you can use your horn in this scenario, that's the major exception at the end of rule 112: "except when another road user poses a danger."
As an HGV driver, I completely agree with your comments about smart motorways. Every single day I see so many vehicles bunched up doing 70mph+... I don't think people realise how quickly it can all go wrong.
As a standard driver I never had any issues with them and in fact, one of the worst motorway encounters I had was on a “normal” motorway with a hard shoulder. A wagon blew an outside tyre while in lane 2 where the debris eventually came to rest in lane 2. I was fine, saw it all unfold but the number of late beakers and swervers was unbelievable. I maintained lane 2 and slowed to a stop as I saw lane 1 stopped and someone about to recover the blown tyre from the carriageway - not recommended but as I saw it I could see it was safe…to a point Anyway, that ramble was more to say if we give ourselves space it gives us time and anyone that says “well someone will go into that gap and I then have to slow a little to bring the gap back” really should have a refresher driving lesson or three
And this is the problem. I regularly see motorists of all kinds ignore the gantry signs etc of temp speed limits. It’s unreal. While smart motorways are not an issue. They become an issue due to others. I have no confidence in the diligence of many motorists out there and as such will opt for an alternative route.
@@TheGiff7 yep, see it all the time. Driving in red X lane or people who only slow down for the gantries with a speed cameras on and then speed up again, making a mockery of the system.
@@alexdavies1009 Your quite right in what you say but Highways also should get there act together as sometimes there are no "all Clear" messages to allow normal running to resume and you are left doing 50mph say and everybody starts speeding up...dangerous ? Today people are just rushing about too much and that causes accidents.
People should be forced to drive MK2 vw polo from 1985. The brakes were terrible and used to need a hell of a push to slow down. I still give a long stopping distance when I’m driving despite now having a car having really good brakes.
There is a real problem, I would suggest, with roundabouts where there are several lanes on the exit road. If you are in the left lane, and exiting on the left lane, and you see pedestrians on the left-hand side of the exit road and you decide to slow and stop for them, there is no guarantee that other cars to your right, exiting on the other lanes, will also stop. This puts the pedestrians in danger, as they may well start to cross when they wee you stop, and not see the other car coming on your right.
That same argument could be used for multilane zebra crossings. If you see a car next to you stopping at a crossing point you should be slowing and prepared to stop safely.
@@Chenty91 Yes, but multilane zebra crossings are very rare, for this reason. In fact I don't think I know of any off the top of my head. Not to mention that multilane junctions don't tend to be in places where there is likely to be a large amount of pedestrian crossing traffic, so drivers are in a differnt state of mind (rightly or wrongly) and therefore may not consider that they should expect a pedestrian. Should they pay attention to why car may be stopped in the lane to their left, of course. But the trouble is that for all the will in the world for people to drive with the correct level of awareness and competence, they don't (because of poor attitude or genuine human mistakes or small lapses in concentration); heck they could even be distracted by another situation that could appear more important for their attention at that moment. And since pedestrians are normally quite weak vs a car or larger, whether they had right of way is ultimately irrelevant when they end up on the floor.
@@L5GUK also, everybody (hopefully!) is aware that you should allow a pedestrian to cross at a zebra crossing. They very clearly marked and definately not missable. Drivers approaching a zebra crossing should be aware of its presence and the need to be cautious of pedestrians wishing to cross. In the long run, providing the rules stay in place and are understood by the general motoring population, drivers should show this same level of awareness at any junction. Unfortunately, many do not at the moment, but in my opinion, everyone should have had this aware and cautious mindset even before the rules were put in place
@@Chenty91 Yes, but for a few points. Firstly, at a zebra crossing people are more likely to expect pedestrians to be crossing, and figure out why you have stopped. At present I think there are few drivers who know that pedestrians have priority at a junction when there is no zebra crossing. Then, of course, you have the difference between what you should do, and what people actually do. I have seen many UA-cam videos where pedestrians almost get run over on zebra crossings that cross several lanes. I just think that this rule increases the danger to pedestrians.
As a pedestrian and bearing the top priority for crossing at a roundabout, I am always on the lookout for motorists who have not spotted me and always wait until the traffic has cleared and it is safe to cross.
Very few people, both vehicle drivers or pedestrians, know about this change from annectodal observations. When driving I notice noone stops for pedestrians crossing unless I have already stopped - and honestly, I always feel quite apprehensive about stopping, especially on a multilane junction. I worry that pedestrian will get hit by a vehicle passing by that isn't paying attention, or the pedestrian assumes that it's safe because I've given way. I have also noticed that most of the time pedestrians don't even seem to know what to do when I give way per the HWC. Causing hesitation, longer stopping times, and impacted traffic flow. And as a pedestrian I notice that very, very few drivers actually stop as they should. The amount of people that give way approaching a round-about (as an example) are no more or less than before the change, and I don't think a single person has ever stopped for me crossing coming off a round-about. We are in a bubble here on this channel as we, for the vast majority, want to improve and recognise the importance of proper driving and following of the HWC. But in reality I would wager that we make up an incredible small minority of road users. I do fairly often chose to ignore a pedestrian's right of way due to safety, or because I don't think they'll know why I'm stopping. The amount of people I see approach a crossing on their phone, or otherwise not paying attention (because they don't know about their priority) so I chose to ignore and pass. Yesterday is an example of stopping on the approach to a round-about to let a woman and a couple of chilren cross. A car coming off the round-about saw and stopped to give way, but the build up impacted the flow of the round-about and one van driver even beeped - who proabably deserves some choice words said for their impatience, attitude and disrespect for other people, but I digress. I can see both sides of the argument. On paper it's a good idea, but only if everyone is on the same page. The trouble is only a very small minority are on that page. The rest are still struggling to read the previous one.
"The amount of people I see approach a crossing on their phone, or otherwise not paying attention (because they don't know about their priority)" - Something I'd like to add here is that as a pedestrian I have taken to feigning a lack of attention of the road, taking my phone out and looking at it for no reason, and standing back from the edge of the pavement in order to influence road users to ignore my priority in these situations. This gives me actual control of the situation and my safety rather than relying on everyone knowing what's what to do things safely. Of course, as Ashley says, if you manage the drivers behind you properly and look far you're likely able to be similarly safe and in control, but as you noted and he aluded to, it'll impact flow when pedestrians don't know what you're doing and take a while to assess whether they feel safe crossing after you've stopped.
you are correct, very few situations is it appropriate to use this rule. the main rule is, if it is safe to do so. a concept totally missed in this video
As a pedestrian, I really dislike the roundabout priority. I'm sure not everyone will see eye to eye, but I feel that roundabouts are too dangerous to have pedestrian priority; as you said, roundabouts are there to maintain and promote traffic flow, and generally don't have too much thought put in for pedestrians. Furthermore, I never know if the driver knows about the new "rules", or if any fellow pedestrians know either, and I don't want to pressure someone into stopping, or crossing when they are not comfortable, or unsure about the rules. I usually avoided crossing at roundabouts before this change, but now I do not cross at a roundabout at all, due to the uncertainty. I think people forget that many, if not most, pedestrians are not up to speed with the Highway Code, and so won't know about the priority they have.
Not to mention when it gets dark. Alot of people get surprised when they see a car with bright red lights on the back around around about, let alone a small shadow like pedestrian. I know fully well certain individuals in dark tracksuits will try and abuse this to make a quick buck
A few years ago I was turning right at a roundabout in the evening. As I came around the built-up roundabout I saw an older pedestrian in the road, around 2 steps across a marked crossing. He tried to step back, but it was too far to get out of my way. I was driving slowly (night, blind exit) and had plenty of time to stop for him. Two seconds later I was rear-ended hard enough to push me into the path of the pedestrian, inches behind him. Stopping for pedestrians crossing near roundabouts is not a new problem but this new rule is a dreadfully poor attempt at trying to get motorists to think about what might be happening in the exit. It is lazy and shows that the transport ministry has no stomach for improving safety.
@@elliotpollard9083exactly that. The whole thing requires everyone to level up at the same time and outside of this place I'm pretty sure people who already have a license aren't interested
As a (now retired) ADI, I have always had grave concerns about this whole change to the highway code. The issue not the ability to do things safely, although I would agree about the roundabouts, but the actual change in the rules themselves. The problem is that historically, the vast majority of rules in the highway code evolved to take into account changing conditions, with additional rules rather than wholey new rules. These latest changes demand that you stop doing certain things one way and do things a different way. After 18 months, I would be astonished if even 30% of experienced drivers are even aware of their existance, and of those 30%, I would expect that half are not aware enough of the changes to actually put them into practice, simply because you are trying to change their 'automatic pilot'. This results in one group of people doing one thing and another doing something different. This is inevitably potentially dangerous, but the new rule are too recent to have created any feedback in the casualy statistics. The fact that we are having to look at the vagueness of the rules in this way, demonstrates how poorly the whole project was considered in the first place.
Also, the evolution came about with changes to road design. Nowadays, we don't usually pass each other at crossroads driver-side-to-driver-side, but most junctions are marked up to account for the way that we are now generally taught, and the roads were changed generally first! Indeed, I have observed numerous places where I COULD try to help pedestrians with this rule, but have felt that neither the pedestrians nor others near me on the road are ready for me to do this (and, often, I am in a bus, so I have numerous other considerations, including my passengers, the idiot car drivers then placing their vehicles alongside so that I then can't manoeuvre due to the swing of my vehicle, and then they wonder why I'm not moving...)
Hasn't it always been the rule that you must give way when exiting a roundabout? Effectively a left turn: you must give way to pedestrians when turning, What's new is entering the roundabout.
isn't the point that it shouldn't be "suddenly" stopping though? If you drive into someone in front of you, you were probably too close. The gap should be big enough to stop even if they make an emergency stop in front of you. A lot of people drive way too close to eachother and either don't realise just how dangerous it is or simply don't care.
In fairness, your roundabouts are quite frankly bonkers. Dual lane exits? Being allowed to leave the roundabout from anything other than the outside lane? Nuts.
@@Landrassa1 not really, as long as there are two lanes in and out, and people stick to their lanes, it works fine. The problem is really only people who don't plan ahead and work out what lane they need to be in in advance and then make sudden changes without thinking.
I drive for a living & I agree, the DVSA have done a terrible job at getting the message out. One way to reach many motorists & pedestrians is to advertise the new rules on the sides, rear & insides of buses, most buses have adverts on them, and sometimes when you sat in traffic behind a bus you read the advert on the back.
I did a driver awareness course some years ago and I think it's safe to say that over 50% of the people there didn't even know the national speed limits. I think we're over estimating the ability of the general driving public to grasp something like this.
That's fine, but then we need more support for cycling infrastructure, public transport and working from home. If driving is to truly become "a privilege", most people should be able to and encouraged to do their job and live their lives without a car.
I think many people see driving as a chore, i.e. to commute or run a family rather than a pleasure and as a result they aren't interested in any form of self improvement, i think these people would prefer better public transport or self driving vehicles. I think there could also be a national scheme to improve driving standards through courses and tests in exchange for an insurance discount.
@@steveknight878 I agree. I think with today's car-centred culture, many who read about a driver hitting a pedestrian crossing where it's the ped's priority will immediately think 'well the pedestrian should have been paying attention' in a Pavlovian way, rather than questioning what actually happened.
I have been doing my best to follow the new guidelines regarding pedestrians crossing at roundabouts. But what I find is when a pedestrian is wishing to cross at my exit for a roundabout and even when I am slowing gradually and making it as obvious as I can, one of two things generally happens; 1. I get beeped. 2. The pedestrian stands there and doesn’t cross. It’s far easier in my experience to command traffic to allow pedestrians to cross on the approach to a roundabout. However, on one occasion I successfully held the traffic to allow an older gentleman to cross, he was very happy and gave a cheery wave as he started to walk across the road, but then in my rear view mirror I spotted some utter buffoon in a van mount the pavement to the left from several cars lengths back and accelerate down the pavement! With me sounding the horn to warn literally everyone the van came to a stop barely a metre from the man! In anger the old boy started shouting and whacking the van with his walking stick! All I had try to do was the right thing, I left the scene of shouting, traffic carnage, criminal damage and dangerous driving in my mirror and wished I let the old man wait an extra 30 seconds 🤦🏻♂️
As someone studying road design, The biggest issue is that there is no visual aid for drivers. They should have made the rules cleared by only in newer designs and slowly convert older designs to the new designs which makes it a gradual transitions for the better.
I know there is a dutch roundabout in cambridge that has raised footpaths and give way markings before the crossing. Only if all roundabouts started adopting that design since it would help considerably.
@@davidty2006 Bear in mind dutch roundabouts only permit leaving from the outside lane (if you're doing a 3/4 turn you first move from the inside to the outside lane and only then proceed to actually take the exit) and typically have single lane exits.
@@davidty2006 If it's the one I'm thinking of it was only "Dutch" style in the sense of having pedestrian and cycle crossings on the roads. The major thing they missed was also redesigning the approaches and the roundabout to reduce traffic speeds: that form of control is invisible, but by reducing traffic speeds is probably more important for safety than the crossings.
As somebody who got a full licence in 1978 I've found that the biggest issue is that a lot of drivers are as thick as mince. The Highway Code I read before passing that test 45 years ago says, very clearly - 'When turning at a road junction, give way to pedestrians who are crossing the road into which you are turning'. You don't need a 'visual aid for drivers' to understand where you are meant to give way.
Proof that it's easy to change words on a page of the Highway Code but far more difficult and massively more expensive to change tarmac and road markings in the real world.
You have not even mentioned the most important thing: the pedestrians have not been told about this rule. I have had quite a few instances where I have slowed right down to let someone cross, but they stop walking - and so an absurd situation arises! On another, related, note: I'm sure the Green Cross Code is no longer taught at schools. So many youngsters don't even look to check whether traffic is coming - they just text/stare at their mobiles while walking obliviously straight out into the road. 20moh zones have exacerbated this problem.
Yes take speed upto 50mph outside schools remove zig zag lines they are only to save parking space for parents running late and if they can do 50mph won’t be late
Absolutely correct... Other countries have infrastructure to deal with it, ie smaller low speed roundabouts, or zebras as you enter leave roundabout. But all the dvsa have done is alter some words in a book that nobody reads.
In the Netherlands traffic leaving a road must always give priority to traffic that stays on said road, regardless whether they're bicycles, pedestrians or whatever. The same principle applies to roundabouts, although there are typically also markings (priority signs for the bicycle lane, a zebra for the pedestrians).
By contrast NZ has no automatic pedestrian priority anywhere, unless the crossing point is marked. Mid street islands often complete with robust bulwarks may be provided at popular crossing points but to assist pedestrians only and do not denote priority.
@@Landrassa1 in Netherlands cyclists aim for pedestrians especially at the coach pick up point outside victory hotel Amsterdam. As the pedestrians try to go from pavement to coach. They think they have a god given right not to be aware of pedestrians on bit
Do away with the rule at round-a-bouts and put in pedestrian crossings or lights with pedestrian boxes in case of multi lane exits. Position either a few car lengths away from the actual exits. Simple, easy and nothing new for anyone to learn.
Pedestrians are more scared to cross is about as simple as I can describe it. The rule change needs a nation wide awareness campaign so everyone is on the same page. The biggest problem I see right now is wildly different expectations from people.
I'm sorry but there is no chance I am stopping while still on the roundabout (unless they walk out, of course). It's not my driving I'm worried about, it's the person joining behind not looking left.
There’s a roundabout I often use that has this problem - and angles and distances mean joiners are focussed to the right. The answer is to stop earlier so you halt literally in front of the other driver. That does manage the risk. I stop in front of them and then crawl forward once they are aware. It’s odd the first few times. Luckily it’s on the edge of a 20mph zone so isn’t seen as especially provocative. Although to aggressive hasty drivers they probably don’t understand. That’s their problem though really.
I think road markings make a big difference here. Having recently visited France, Spain, Italy and Germany, they all have a basic zebra crossing marking on the road and a simple sign all over towns including at roundabouts and even the Italians generally give way to pedestrians approaching them. Everyone just sort of casually gets on with working around each other (this is a general observation from being both a driver and pedestrian in these places without having studied their equivalent highway codes in detail). In the UK a zebra crossing is a far more prominent and complex piece of civil engineering with loads of road markings either side and they are far less common (rare even in many areas) and I think that fuels the mindset of “cars have right of way” if it’s not a giant crossing with loads of markings, especially to people who haven’t read the Highway Code. I think some simple low key markings as used on the continent would help all understand what is to be expected (especially the many who don’t read the Highway Code) though it’ll probubly never happen on cost grounds as councils would claim fitting a full blown zebra crossing with all the beacons costs too much.
A zebra crossing requires safety audits to be undertaken on them before they can be implemented. So you will take into account the visibility of the pedestrians and what they can see based of the speed of the traffic and the local speed limits, so they shouldn't end up just around a blind bend etc. I expect a lot of the UK ones that we have right on junctions are there because they fit the standards at the time and would never be permitted now.
Visibility - Dark winter nights, dark clothing and heavy rain Ashley. None of the aforementioned seem to have been taken into consideration by the authorities when making up these new rules. Great Vid as always
It shouldn't be an issue. We have and had the same rules in Germany for years. Put some street light at the crossing, don't blast through the exists, and the issue disappears
@@PasteteDoeniel LOL just put some street lighting, the standards are so poor here and lack of funding you are better taking it to court because you might win due to the lack of funding there as well..
@Ashley Neal Thanks for this video Ashley, I agree with your comments in this video and raising awareness. I have been training motorcyclists for over a decade and have been riding and driving since the 80s. I have been involved in road safety and driver training for many years. So prior to the "new" hierarchy and rules, it was to my understanding a given that if a pedestrian was committed to crossing you gave way, and if they were about to cross you would generally assume that the vehicle would have priority, but a "good" driver would look for clues, engage with eye contact with the ped and hopefully there would also be a shared responsibility for the ped to take care of their safety and so on, and it sort of worked. Of course there were incidents, there always will be. So now the powers that be introduce these new rules after a "consultation". Despite being in the industry, I wasn't consulted, and dont know anybody who was! Whilst this change was done with the best intentions, I dont believe that it has been thoroughly thought through. We have a lot of focus on road safety these days and vision zero with regard to road casualties and rightly so. But unfortunately what I see is that lot of campaigns address speed limit reduction and rules such as these which dont look at the whole picture. If we look at road collisions and causation, there are many varied reasons for them, and generally a collision results from several contributing factors coming together, not just one factor such as speeding. Driver training is varied, and despite the best intentions of people such as yourself and myself who do our best to train to a safe high standard, there are thousands of poorly trained road users who have zero interest in improving their ability and will never be required to do so as the system does not have any facility to produce drivers of a high standard, whether new or existing. And there will never be the political will to actually address this issue in the UK. So if we look at the give way/priority roundabout question, of course, it should not be an issue. But it will be, and it will remain so. The DVSA could spend thousands of tax payers money on an advertising campaign, but as with drink driving, drug driving, excess speed, poor observation, inability to assess bends, inability to judge speed for hazards, it will not change driver habits or behaviour to any great degree. Sadly. I have noticed over the years an increase in highways putting ped crossings on the exit of roundabouts, and thought then that it was a recipe for incidents. In my view the problem is not just "bad" driving, but many people struggle with roundabouts anyway, and in a strange place, looking for road signs, road markings, awareness of other vehicles puts a massive drain on peoples brain processes. Its fine when you know the location, and yes, it should be irrelevant if you read the road correctly, but reality is different to ideal world. Research has shown that the human brain can only cope with so much information at any given time, and if you overload it something has to give. This is especially true with driving. The other problem with the hierarchy is that whilst it doesnt say this, there is now an inferred protection given to the vulnerable road users that they dont have to take as much responsibility for their own safety as they should; I am seeing more and more cyclists and pedestrians doing things that are likely to cause themselves harm. In the lest few decades I have seen a deterioration in the planning and implementation of the "rules" and legislation in the UK, and in solving one problem, others are created. The best thing that can be done is to face reality and rebalance responsibility for pedestrians to cross in safe places, and a roundabout is complex and not a safe place to cross. All the best.
I've been a situation a few times now when I've been on my bicycle and I've spotted pedestrians waiting to cross at a roundabout. I slowed down well in advance and used hand signals to show my intent. I then found myself waiting in the middle of my lane while traffic continues to rush past in the next lane. If I were in my car I wouldn't be so concerned, by on a bike it can be pretty disconcerting. Another issue I constantly find when giving way to pedestrians at any junction is either the pedestrians don't know it's their priority, or they stand there on their phones not paying any attention whatsoever. Sometimes the pedstrians will be watching for a gap in the traffic, I'll stop in front of them and they'll just look past me still looking for a gap in the traffic. It's difficult because you can't encourage them to cross without them doing their own observations. Sometimes I'll say to them: "are you crossing?", they'll sudenly realise that I'm there and giving way to them, then they'll just step out without looking. In fact, Ashley has shown some footage of mine in a previous video where I give way to a pedestrian when exiting a roundabout, and the driver behind sounds his horn and then starts an argument.
The highway code should increase safety, encouraging motorists to stop as they leave a flowing roundabout increases danger. Making driving more complicated and challenging than it needs to be increases the chance of something going wrong.
This seems to be a particular UK problem. Take Fendon Road roundabout in Cambridge. It's a dutch design, which doesn't seem to bother drivers in The Netherlands, yet from some of the media reporting here about it, you'd think it was going to cause the world to end! I think it's a cultural change - people need to slow down at roundabouts.
As terms of their drivers' licence, drivers are required to keep up with changes in the HC. A year and a half is more than enough time to update themselves with changes. Any driver who doesn't know the updates by now should have to do a mandatory resit.
My main issue with this is how distracted drivers can be when on roundabouts. They have to worry about right of way, keeping a steady speed, they have to keep an eye out for other motorists in their blind spots and may be watching/ listening to a Sat Nav. All while at any point having to stopwith little warning and without knowing whether other drivers are paying attention around them because a pedestrian has right of way on the exit of a roundabout. Wheras a pedestrian only has to look and see if a car is coming or not. The answer is clear to me, Maybe in theory what they have done makes sense but in the real world i think the cars should have right of way
there's an issue with pedestrians rushing across when someone does give them way- they aren't expecting it and so hurry across as to not hold you up- and so may not check if it's actually safe to walk out (which also explains why some pedestrians do not step out at all in these situations). It's the same idea with an oncoming car flashing you to turn right across their lane-there's potential for you to not do any observations before moving.
I'm a 'not step outer' ..i'm checking all lanes of traffic and assessing speeds etc ... I'll only cross if I feel safe. Thank you those that do but please dont get mad just cos I noticed the twat showing no signs of slowing let alone stopping in the other lane!! I've actually been sworn at exactly the moment a high speed overtaker went past on the other side ! ... mind you I've also had those that gentle straddle across the lanes so that there is no option to pass them ... I think those ones must walk a lot hehehe
Hi Ashley, well that was the calmest 'rant' that I've ever heard on You Tube! I am a subscriber to your channel as I benefit from continuous driver education. I'll be 66 next month and if I'm still breathing at 70, I'll book some refresher lessons with you prior to re-applying for my licence. BTW I live in Southampton. Stay safe!
@@icouldbewrongicouldberight Yes, but the price for many things has done up enormously in the last year. Don't expect the insurers to miss out on *_that_* excuse for bumping their profits.
On this, he's got it wrong. Information in the form of a letter to another driving school, sent from Ashley's managing department, the government, states quite clearly that there is no requirement to stop for waiting pedestrians at junctions but that drivers need to be travelling with that in mind. That they make that decision to stop or not for waiting peds and certainly if a ped gets in the way. (Yes I know what the code says... and it also better instructs pedestrians, in preexisting sections, more fully about where and how to cross). Few learner drivers in my experience, having allegedly studied the whole code, even know those rules. Given deliberately slower approaches to turns, it's more likely that waiting peds with priority will then cross. If you recall... Ashley has the safety mantra that. Priority is given, (I read ceded for given), not taken. That logic also applies to peds with code given priority if it looks dangerous, surely? Nor does the code require any driver to stop on roundabout exits unless (obviously), someone, as in every other scenario, is in the way. Or could be anticipated to be. I was teaching this way, 41 years ago. In general, if it's in your way, or will be... why keep accelerating or moving at high speed, toward it unless it will be gone and clearly not likely to be replaced by another? It's a simple concept. But none of that, (correct observation and anticipation aside), required stopping just because someone was waiting to get in the way. Think only like that and you'd cede priority to every vehicle waiting at give way lines instead of anticipating and only then acting on their potential to obstruct you. Again stopping for peds is clearly required under newer rules, in general. Government replies however, regarding not stopping insist it should be the driver's decision if peds haven't made it for him. It's just about the same principle of how a Zebra crossing works. But as another dimension; for how long do you wait on the major road, if they see you but don't cross, if indeed the driver has no say in it?
@neddyseagoon9601 ORLY? Yes Ashley implies the opposite. A driver was really annoyed the other day when I wasn't crossing as a pedestrian. I try not to look at them and don't wait immediately next to the curb to show I'm not just gonna jump out in the road, but driver's insist to follow Ashley's practice, when not all pedestrians want that. Near me there are hardly any junctions where I cant wait a short time for a gap. The only one I think that's a frequently annoying for me as a pedestrian is this T junction with trucks and like coming out, where I'm glad at least some have the sense to allow pedestrians to cross since they are waiting to join the main road. Unlike cars, it can be difficult to squeeze between trucks.
As a pedestrian, I have now started instinctively 'holding back' from the kerb at junctions/roundabouts with no controlled pedestrian crossing. I'm nervous that a motorist might slam on the brakes and cause a crash. I'd much rather just wait a few seconds until things are clear, then cross. To me, it's all about Ash's Golden Rule- flow. It costs me 2 seconds and no danger to wait for the car to pass. For the car to wait for me costs more time, is dangerous AND btw is worse for the environment and road wear & tear.
I am never going to stop at the exit to a round about to let someone cross who is stood there waiting. It makes zero sense to risk anything. 99% of the time in the examples I have seen it just causes confusion when a motorist stops to let someone cross anywhere when the pedestrian is not expecting it. It would have been much quicker and safer for everyone if the car had just drove past and the pedestrian crossed behind them. If I slow gradually at the exit to a round about and stop to let someone cross that doesn't stop the idiot behind flying around the round about (can't always see your exit as you go round) and hitting me from behind or hitting the pedestrian crossing the road. All this would be for absolutely nothing as by the time the pedestrian realized what is going on theywould have been across the road quicker if I had just drove past and they then crossed behind me.
I couldn't agree more Ashley. I live in a relatively small town/village with practically no zebra crossings, a few pelican crossings, but primarily small roundabouts. Also, a lot of elderly people, both pedestrians and drivers. And I have to admit that I very often find myself braking this rule, as I feel it's simply too dangerous to stop, or it would quite heavily impact the flow of traffic. I get the pedestrian priority, but I hope this rule is changed in future.
@@TestGearJunkie. Are you saying it doesn't matter if drivers break the HC because bodies are softer than bonnets? Anyone handling heavy machinery needs to take care.
@@glenn1534 I didn't say that at all. I said I'd prefer to wait until there aren't any vehicles about than risk a driver not stopping in time. Yes, drivers need to take care. The sad fact of the matter is, a lot of the time they don't.
@@TestGearJunkie. More action needs to be taken to get those drivers off the road. It's a sad state of society that we just accept ~1,800 deaths a year from RTCs rather than saying that it's not acceptable for someone's life to be cut short.
It's all about observation and awareness, I approach roundabouts slowly and look for all the signs of what might be. If I see a pedestrian wanting to cross I slow up even more, no danger still rolling and allow them to cross let it flow.
Roundabouts need to begin being redesigned to match those that prioritise pedestrians/ cyclists found in the netherlands and belgium to match these rules. The rule is a good start, but needs to be matched with infrastructure
The infrastructure is the most important aspect. Really, the 'it might be unsafe to give way at roundabout exits' thing is just the most obvious issue that come under the overall category of problems caused by the UK's infrastructure being overwhelmingly designed for use by cars, with a very distant second thought given to pedestrians and none at all given to cyclists. Consequently, just changing the rules without changing the infrastructure means nothing in practical terms; most of the things that make British roads hostile to cyclists are still there, even if you could magically compel everybody to comply with the new rules. Junctions are still the wrong shape, cycle lanes aren't properly positioned to make cyclists visible, bikes and cars are compelled to share infrastructure even where it's clearly a really bad idea etc etc. Changes to the Highway Code should have been introduced alongside an actual infrastructure programme that would make them effective. As it is, the rule changes are basically there so that the Gov can say how friendly they are towards cyclists without having to spend the money needed to actually change anything. So long as your average cycle lane is paint on a road rather than a physically separate right of way that's protected from incursion from cars, it doesn't matter what the rules are or how well they're enforced, there's not going to be a Dutch-style mass uptake of cycling.
@@PedroConejo1939 Education shouldn't be necessary. If you use a driving license then it's your responsibility to know what the rules are. It's no one's responsibility to teach you
I am a advanced PCV (Bus) instructor and I totally agree with your assessment Ashley, most drivers have not read the highway code since they passed there driving test. They believe that they are good drivers because they get away with drive fast all the time, where they are just being lucky. I have taught the Smiths system of advanced driving for many years and I believe the two second rule is too short and a four second rule to be a lot safer way to drive. Every day on average FIVE people die on our roads and many more have life changing effects from road accidents. If we all followed the rules then more people would be alive today. Great videos Ashley keep up the good work.
In other countries the give way principle is similarly applied, but road markings are such that they have a zebra at every junction reinforcing the right of way. Additionally, speeds are lower in urban areas and rigorously enforced. It needs a coordinated effort of education, road design, road markings and speed limits. Look at the satellite images of Helsinki. It can be done, just takes a bit of will and money. I'll make the other point that a significant number of drivers are wilfully ignorant of the rules and no amount of education will ever improve their driving.
I am a cyclist, and I am petrefied every time I give-away to pedestrians at exits to roundabout. When I do stop there is a delay as the pedestrian do not know what to do, and I worry that a car behind is concentrating on me and don't see the pedestian and will overtake me. Scrap the rule at roundabouts, obvious ridiculous rule.
I think a better solution, if we want to do something like this, is what I have seen before (more commonly in Europe but also in places in the UK) is to have actual zebra markings, but have them slightly down the road, so at least 2 or 3 vehicles can clear the roundabout before hitting them. More generally though I am a fan of making cycling, and walking as easy as possible, as far as I am concerned when the pedestrian is waiting on the pavement, they are pretty safe. If they are in an island in the middle of the road of course less so. So I prefer to judge on how vulnerable do I think the pedestrians are. What is the overall level of risk to them having to wait for a gap, vs to me potentailly being rear ended. I am in favour of a lot in the changes to more vulnerable road uses, such as wider passing distances for cyclists, but I just think this (the pedestrian priority) was ill thought through. If you want to make things safer for pedestrians, give them better infrastructure (actual puffin crossings, zebra crossings, continuous pavements accross t-junctions, bridges etc).
it's no good having them 2 or 3 car lengths down the road unless you install railings, as pedestrians (quite rightly) will wish to take the most direct line. People need to stop treating roundabouts like a race track and start expecting vehicles to stop on them, after all, it's not that unusual.
When I'm out running I hate it when drivers stop to let me across the road. I'm trying to judge your speed and cross behind you, I've almost run into the side of a car before because they decide to brake at the same time as I'm planning to go around them. It's usually quicker for me if you carried on and got out of my way and allow me to cross in the gap behind you, instead of making me wait for you to slow down and stop and while I'm attempting to see through your reflective windscreen and work if you're waving me across or not and if it's safe for me to step out in front of you. Plus it's extra dangerous when there's two lanes and you're waving me out into another driver who hasn't decided to stop. I don't feel comfortable stepping in front of your car, just keep moving and let me find my own gap. Also, I might have been thankful for the chance to stop and wait and take a breather for a few seconds, and suddenly I feel like I'm forced to move because you've stopped and held up traffic.
That isn't really a problem just for the UK, I've seen plenty of aggressive or even borderline psychopathic behaviour in Germany as well, especially in the last few years.
The epidemic of the mini roundabouts is a big issue. No need for them. People are sick of them. In Germany it's "rechts vor links" and that should be enough.
@@kenbrown2808 Have you seen the US pedestrian fatality rate? It was 7,508 in 2022, vs 470 in the UK. That's 16 times the number of pedestrian deaths from 5 times the population. Per head of population, that's a 3 times higher pedestrian death rather than in the UK. That is in a country famous for driving rather than walking. Of course, the Americans fondness for huge, pedestrian unfriendly vehicles and the turn-right-on-red laws are not helpful either, but it rather points to American drivers not being particularly pedestrian friendly. If you'd chosen Germany or the Netherlands as an example, you'd have more of a point, but the US is a bad example on pretty well every aspect of road safety.
As far as I've seen, there has been next to no public information campaign around the changes. People that do know about them are reluctant to follow them because pedestrians and other motorists are unaware. The changes to postage stamps have had far more publicity and that's not life and death.
Just paint in zebra crossings and be done with it. Here in Finland all roundabouts have a traffic sign to give way when entering a roundabout. This applies to giving way to cars in the roundabout as well as pedestrians AND cyclists on their own cycle patch (next to the pedestrian crossing). When exiting a roundabout, you have to give way to bicycles and peds as 1) they are on a zebra crossing and 2) you are considered a turning vehicle so you have to give way to other traffic. Easy.
Great idea, but the state of roads in the UK is atrocious. Fixing the numerous potholes & and repainting the road markings would improve peoples behaviour on the roads.
Not a very bright idea. Roundabouts should improve traffic flow. Doing that would jam junctions solid. I have an idea...pedestrians should give way to cars.
One of the issues with this is that pedestrians are still not used to their right of way yet. Only today, as I was exiting a roundabout three people were waiting on the kerb so I stopped to let them cross. Two of the three crossed immediately (and thanked me), the third stayed on the pavement. When the first two crossed in front of me I looked at the third one who still had not moved, so I prepared to move once those crossing were clear. As I started to move the third person then decide to step onto the road.
@@JamesSomersetActorand that's the solution right here... the highway code should change to stipulate to pedestrians: 'At a busy junction or a roundabout, make sure the traffic has cleared before you set your foot on the road!' I know it might take forever to clear traffic at a busy junction or it might never happen. In such case, don't cross at such junction!
There is no such thing as right of way in the Highway Code. The words are not there ,and it is dangerous to think in those terms. The Highway Code says give priority, but everybody has to bear in mind that you can't just assume it. Always, but always check.
just fills me with anxiety every time i see a pedestrian while im leaving a roundabout as the average british driver probably isnt paying enough attention to stop comfortably
@@andyedwards7800 Stopping to let a pedestrian cross is an excellent way of getting rear ended and getting pushed forwards and hitting the pedestrian. Most people accelerate off a roundabout back to road speed.
@@andyedwards7800 I wonder what happened to the green cross code? Seems like the blame for crossing the road unsafely has been moved from the pedestrian to the driver. I choose to not cross at roundabouts. I walk an extra 20 yards away from the roundabout
There are a number of issues. Firstly, I have no issue with stopping (if I can) on approach to a roundabout as you should be slowing down to giveway anyway and it's a kind thing to do. However, one of the biggest issues is pedestrians. Many pedestrians believe that the Highway Code only applies to vehicles and therefore, unless they have cycled or learnt to drive a motor vehicle. Therefore, when you do stop, they look at you for several seconds not understanding what is happening. The Highway code splits Junctions and Roundabouts into their own sections so MOST people will not classify a roundabout as being a "junction" from that POV. The other issue is this - when you turn in/out of a T-Junction, there is a broken white line to signify turning and and double white giveway lines when you are exiting. On the approach to a roundabout, you have double white giveway markings but you DO NOT have any markings on exit. This would imply that once you are in the roundabout you are on the "main carriageway" and the lane you are in continues in the direction of your travel off of the roundabout - therefore, most people would only think of the "junction" part of the roundabout as being the entry and not the exit. This is where the issue arises. Also, as you mentioned, roundabouts are designed to clear traffic quickly and efficiently. The stop doing that if you have to slow down on exit just in case a pedestrian is waiting to cross.
Re pedestrians just looking at you, one of the problem with the rules is that people probably won't go unless you specifically wave/flash them out, and i really dislike doing so as it's too easy to take that and try and rush across without properly checking it's safe to.
@@wscottcrawford yes. I think they make the 'rules' too complex. The Code is unnecessarily verbose and in their 'committee' way tends to make simple concepts complex.
Road safety depends upon everyone agreeing that the rules make sense & are designed to be as clear & safe as possible. Being human, road users including pedestrians may not always live up to these highest ideals - hence the emphasis in the HC on caution & consideration on the road, particularly when driving. However courtesy & consideration is an individual thing, perception of it varies from person to person & situation to situation. Trying to encode it into a set of rules which are more vague & less specific than the rest of the HC (i.e. pedestrians at junctions) , IMO undetmines both safety & goodwill on the road. Example: A mother with baby buggy on a street corner engaged in conversation with her friend. Is she about to step into the road, assuming the driver will stop (instead of making eye contact & confirming)? Or lost in conversation, unaware of all the cars slowing down for her as they pass? Until she steps into the road, assuming...? As a adriver, my primary responsibility is to be safe & courteous. As a pedestrian, my primary responsibility is to keep myself safe. The more people understand & agree with the rules & the easier they are to follow, the fewer accidents there will be. The reverse is also true. Only politicians & lawyers benefit from rules that are less clear than they could be.
The UK road system is such a mess. I spend a lot of time driving in Europe where this is so normal, but the road layouts are far more suited to it and the general attitude towards driving is far superior.
Let's not forget that UK drivers are some of the best in the world. Look at the stats on road deaths. Perhaps other countries need to be looking to us for tips on road safety rather than the other way around.
@@hikaru9624 I'm sure they know that. Before brexit, people still referred to Europe and the UK as separate. It refers to the geographic point that we are not part of mainland Europe.
Anything that adds confusion is generally bad. This rule adds confusion, coupled with really poor communication at launch (and after), I can only say it's been a disaster. Most people I encounter seem to think it mean pedestrian priority at EVERY stage. ie that pedestrians can just walk out into the road and expect traffic to stop for them. I had an encounter on Tottenham court road a few weeks ago with a young girl (late 20's) who was obviously a shop worker (and judging by the fact this happened after 9am, probably late). She only looked one way before walking into the road and only noticed me by the time she got to the middle of the road. I'd already slowed down in anticipation, but when she saw me, she stopped dead, so I carried on rolling along. As I passed her, she called me a 'W&nker' (which is accurate, but a little over familiar, seeing as we don't know each other). I stopped the bike and said: 'You what?' to which she said: 'You should have stopped,'. The irony was that there was a pedestrian crossing about 80 yards up the road and she even had the gall to point to it and say: 'The lights are on red at the crossing'. To which I said: 'Well, then cross there. That's where you're supposed to cross!'. She gave a bit more verbal before going into the shop where I guess she works. I suspect she was the type to just do as she pleased, but I have a suspicion that she thinks the 'pedestrian priority' means pedestrians can cross wherever they like, whenever they like and EVERYBODY else has to stop. I also see many comments on videos where a pedestrian almost gets run down and people say: 'Oh but the new highway code says pedestrians have priority'. Now I don't rely on others following 'rules' to keep me safe. I stop at EVERY light (even if nobody is around...mostly because I need a breather!). I don't get up the inside of cars and lorries near junctions, even if they 'should' be looking out for me. I just hang back and make certain I don't get squished. Similarly when walking, I don't 'hope' someone has seen me, I wait till the crossing is green, and even then still look (as I know many cyclists go through red lights). I don't want to be in an ambulance saying: 'But it was my right of way'. I'd rather hold back a few seconds and stay alive than hope my 'rights' will protect me.
One thing I find is that pedestrians often don't understand why you're slowing and giving way, especially when exiting a roundabout. Sometimes they even abort the crossing when the car behind beeps, perhaps thinking that I'm beeping them to get out of the way. Other times they rush across and don't do the observations they need to do. Our culture tells pedestrians that cities belong to cars and that they are the lowest life form when stepping onto a road.
They should've given guidance to straddle the lanes to protect the pedestrian. I think multi lane roundabouts are an absolute travesty. They're supposed to be safer than a crossroads, not faster (imho)
I hate it when cars stop to let me cross. I’d rather wait until I’m certain there’s no cars in any direction or no crash about to happen before stepping into the road. It’s not hard for pedestrians to stop and look then cross.
The problem is that approaching or exiting a roundabout the law would work ,however even if you approach slowly the majority of drivers are too close behind and not aware that you may stop especially on exiting. With approaching you may stop for a pedestrian on the left lane but as the pedestrian crosses there is no guarantee the outside lane takes the same amount of care putting the pedestrian in danger
If the intent is to make things safer for pedestrians then it was ill thought through and should be reverted because *in practice* (as opposed to idealised theory) it's actually increasing risk in various scenarios (not holding my breath for a mea culpa from the DVSA though).
My own thoughts as an ADI is that the new guidance (and of course it is guidance not a rule as no new law or changes to existing laws were made - nonetheless it's the guidance against which driving standards would be assessed criminally should it come to it, so it needs paying attention to) is an understandable concept (although I have a few issues with it - in particular that it runs the risk of encouraging the most vulnerable to pass responsibility for their safety to others - cars should stop, so I'll just walk out - have seen it happening more already). But as is pretty much normal in the UK it has been implemented really badly as none seems to have thought about how it will work with all the permutations of junction types as Ashley describes in the video. All procedures and rules around safety work best if they are easy to understand and easy for typical users to implement. Safety procedures get disregarded or badly implemented when they are confusing or awkward. This is just basic behavioural science. These changes fail to meet those criteria (and you didn't have to be a genius to realise that would be the case), so will remain problematic. Furthermore, any attempt to improve or clarify them is likely to lead to even more confusion amongst both pedestrians and drivers. The trouble is people at the DVSA, and ADIs like Ashley and myself are essentially 'driving nerds' - we think about this stuff all the time and probably quite like all the detail. Most drivers, frankly, don't give a toss and just want to go from A to B quickly (and hopefully safely) - they don't care, and never will care, about the nuances of major roads, minor roads, roundabouts, traffic lights with crossings, those without etc. In light of the video the other day of the motorbike getting nudged from behind, I remembered I've actually had a student fail a test in exactly that situation (minus collision). They stopped coming off a roundabout (not even that abruptly) for pedestrians who were stable and not actively trying to enter the road when we had vehicles behind. The examiner explicitly told them at the end that if the pedestrians are happy to wait they should have continued given that they had vehicles fairly close behind. I've also seen driving faults given in similar situations where there's been a fairly abrupt stop (but without vehicles behind). In the last 18 months, I've never encouraged my students to stop coming off roundabouts because it just doesn't fit safely with how most people drive, and I've yet to have anyone given even a driving fault for not stopping in that situation with pedestrians. Going minor-major or major-minor on the other hand, I have seen faults given where it would have been easy and appropriate to stop. So from my experience it seems even the examiners (in my area at least) have reservations about roundabouts. See also the headline of another change at the same time. "Cyclists get priority going ahead at junctions" - sounds good, but I'd advise against doing that going minor to minor at a crossroads...
I’ve found these rules have actually increased hostility to pedestrians. I saw a video the other day about zebra crossings and it was full of people saying pedestrians should find a gap because vehicles cannot stop in time for them to cross. That was insane to me - it’s a clearly marked crossing. I dread to think how these drivers would handle a junction.
Drivers not giving me enough space on a zebra crossing is one of my top irritations as a pedestrian. Many drivers just slow enough to let me cross and then zoom across behind with very little leeway. I find it unsettling
@@frogsplorerry using the ones where I live when the roads are busy. The cars / vans / lorries stop on them so you have to walk in the road to cross as well as the drivers that nudge forward as you are crossing to accelerate away just missing the back with their mirror 🤬
Cars in the UK need to learn to give way to pedestrians a lot more. Having driven in Canada for the last 22 years and coming back here - it is shocking that they do not. Up here in Glasgow Scotland people pull on to roundabouts very fast if it's clear to the right and accelerate and exit even faster. They last thing they expect you to do is stop for a pedestrian coming up to a roundabout or certainly coming off it. It's going to cause accidents with cars & possibly pedestrians, as you stop in lane 1 and they step out and into lane 2 to be walloped by fast car. I liked your control of people's speed by your slowing them down, hard to on a bike even though there is less obstacle to visibility as they, car behind, are focused on you the bike and not in front. Everyone needs to start giving way to pedestrians more basically & get used to that and others doing so.
The DVSA need to change the rules. The new rules around pedestrians are stupid for so many reasons. Most pedestrians I've given way to feel awkward about holding up a queue of traffic while people are getting rear-ended and beeping out of confusion and impatience. Pedestrians have always been able to spot gaps and make the crossing. Just revert the rules. And yes, I spend a lot of my time as a pedestrian... deliberately waiting away from teh edge of the road so people don't feel like they have to stop.
I have just read through all the Highway Code relating both to roundabouts and to pedestrians. I could find no SPECIFIC mention that drivers should give way to pedestrians at roundabouts. I think it is a very dangerous concept. I would only do it if the traffic was very light and I felt sure there was no other vehicle about that could that could cause an accident in the time it would take the pedestrian to cross. As a pedestrian I only cross if I am sure there is no vehicle that can hit me and I hang well back from the kerb so drivers will not think they should stop. If traffic is so heavy that I have to wait several minutes in the rain to cross the road that tells me it is a dangerous place to cross. Nowadays much life is "risk assessment" heavy. If you got Health and Safety on the roundabout question they would almost certainly ban 80 per cent of them. And the idea of cyclists having to give way to pedestrians at roundabouts is so rich in danger it makes me shudder.
HI, Ashley - I enjoy watching your videos on driving, even though the rules described don't always apply to me, since I am not in the UK. However, the thing with pedestrians and roundabouts is just silly. The idea that a driver should (ever) think about whether or not to stop is very confusing. Where I live (in Denmark) you have to stop whenever you encounter a pedestrian (or bike) trying to cross - no matter the place of crossing. It makes it much easier to react, because you ALWAYS have to react (stop). Simple rules rule :-)
Where I live, there is a mini roundabout near a sixth form college. There is the entrance to the college, a residential road to the left of the entrance, a crossing with lights about ten meters from the roundabout on the road to the right and a zebra crossing about forty meters on the road straight ahead from the entrance. The children, or young people, from the college never seem to use the crossings, they just walk across the road and expect drivers to stop. Most are wearing headphones or engrossed with their mobile phone. There have been countless accidents where a vehicle has had to stop because someone has walked into their path. If you say anything, you just get 'the finger' or mouthful of expletive abuse. I did have a try at being a driving instructor back in 1977. I took my Advanced driving course and took students out with another fully qualified instructor in the back, but an accident with a police car, where the student accelerated instead of braking, and my not used to the dual controls, and we ended up breaking the rear lamp of the police car. The police officer was quite annoyed at first, and when he was made aware of the situation, we all had a good laugh. I also took the Advance Driving Test in a 44 ton articulated lorry and passed, but I do not consider myself a perfect driver. Now at the age of 72, I still drive with the same care I had with the lorries. I think myself lucky that I had some good instructors when taking the Advanced courses. But I could never be a driving instructor as I no longer have any hair to pull out. Love your videos.
The only reason I know about these rules is due to you and Black Belt Barrister Dan and, after 55 years under the old Highway Code, it has taken some adjustment, but I’m coming to terms with them. I surprised my wife yesterday when I stopped to let a pedestrian cross at the exit to a roundabout. It was safe and there was no drama, although I did keep a close eye on the car behind 🌞
This rule is totally dangerous. If you stop to let pedestrians cross your likely to have someone run into the back of you. Not to mention the so many different nationalities we have in this country that drive but don’t understand the culture let alone have never even seen a Highway Code book.
Stopping in Lane 1 of a two lane roundabout at an exit is a recipe for disaster, around 80 percent of the time this has made things more dangerous so no longer do it.thw video you showed is a different situation as it was a single carriage way. In many duel carriage way roundabouts the dropped kerbs are only a matter of a couple of meters on the exit and if you factor in the angle of your vehicle vehicles fast approaching in Lane 2 have no visual of thr pedestrian, Ashley to mentioned managing the people behind you. How do you figure that on a two lane roundabout exit.the is not about being g hit behind this was all about the safety of the pedestrian this has had the opposite effect. As a motorcyclists I slow my speed on roundabouts more than my car. The solution is simply put a zebra crossing at every junction and roundabout. 3000 years of evolution reminds people that assuming vehicles are doing the right thing and it's safe to cross with out an external mechanism ie a light or zebra crossing will mean you end up dead or injured and mo longer in the gene pool. That's why pedestrians don't know how to react when you stop. Most do nothing and wait with a be blan expression and others just wave you on. It simply doesn't work at a practical level. You mention Ashley in many videos driving standards are getting worse, this I completed agree so this rule change will make things worse. Your videos are a great watch . I'm a hgv driver of many years and about to go through the experience and training becoming a driving instructor..
Pedestrians can cross wherever they choose. The dropped kerb needs to be where pedestrians cross, which is right at the junction and not at the end of a detour.
My thoughts are that a roundabout will normally have a faster entry and exit than a turn into a road. On the entry to a roundabout it would be less of a problem because we should be expecting to stop and for the vehicle in front to slow or stop. However, on the exit it is different and speeds exiting will be faster, then it could be dangerous for a vehicle to stop. I think the priority should be to pedestrians when you're entering a roundabout, but to vehicles on the exit. This will be probably impossible, but that's my opinion.
Totally agree about how dangerous this is. Just yesterday, I did not stop to allow pedestrians to cross, as there was a truck behind me, which I considered too close and would have ran into me. As an ex coach driver, if I were to give way for pedestrians I would be very concerned that other vehicles in the right hand lane would not see them, continue past me and hit them as they would have no time to react to people appearing from in front of a large vehicle. (hoping this makes sense🤔)
The issues I have had when giving way to pedestrians is either they don't know the new rules or they don't feel safe enough to cross. I have ended up on more than one occasion in a polite stand off of "after you" to which I have ended up driving off with them still not having crossed.
I actually put this question (informally) to a motorcycle examiner a few weeks back. Consensus between them and the instructor I was with at the time is that in the majority of cases giving way to pedestrians at the exit of a roundabout, on a motorcycle, would present too high a risk - particularly with the current lack of understanding from other road users. The feeling was that they'd generally expect a car to do so, but that a motorcycle they typically wouldn't (for now at least). Giving way on the approach they were a little more in line with your interpretation, in that traffic could reasonably expect you to stop on the approach before anyway, thus treat it with more caution than you would in a car, but that you would be expected to do so if safe. I specifically asked the question, because I had given way to allow pedestrians to cross on an exit, and had been "told off" by the instructor I was with (a different one to above) for doing so.
I got rear ended giving way on a roundabout exit. Was only a gentle bump and dashcam showed them at fault but it has made me far more anxious about doing the same in future
Its a daft rule change. Makes it particularly dangerous for motorcycles with a high chance of getting reaer ended. Also it kinda takes responsibility from the pedestrian, leaving their safety solely on other road users. As a pedestrian myself, I am not at all comfortable doing this. As a driver and biker i feel this rule change makes the roads more dangerous for everyone!
I think they should do like other countries in Europe that have had this rule for a long time (e.g. France, Austria, Germany etc.). They should add zebra crossing on every junction where it is expected that u give way to pedestrians. This would remove ambiguity. It’s also not as unrealistic as it sounds however the rule would have needed to be introduced gradually(e.g. in 1 or 2 years) for this to work.
The law now states that every junction that you are turning into has right of way for pedestrians. There should be no need for a change of infrastructure when literally every single junction has the same rule. The problem isn't infrastructure, the problem is failure of drivers to either observe or obey the law.
@@Joe11924 But it will always be a problem! We r humans and we make mistakes. The only way to reduce the amount of mistakes so to speak and make roads safer is to change the infrastructure to control the traffic in the way u want. It’s similar to the speed limit argument. Limiting a 2x2 lanes at 30 km/h (20 mph) only by putting a signboard isn’t gonna slow ppl down. U have to make lanes narrower (or remove lanes) and add roundabouts, intersections etc. Basically change the infrastructure. It’s the exact same thing with giving way to pedestrians. Not having a zebra crossing may mean that u don’t even notice that there’s a pedestrian crossing! So how can u expect everyone to *consistently* give way?
As a pedestrian I'm never going to step into a roundabout unless I'm absolutely sure the car is coming to a stop which doesn't usually happen until they're basically almost at standstill at which point I've massively disrupted the flow of traffic on that roundabout. But how else could we do, its not worth the risk of your life by going early and just assuming they're going to slow down or stop. If I wait and the car passes and I cross when its clear everyone wins from a safety standpoint but if I wait and the car stops that puts the car in risk of being hit because he's essentially stopped on a roundabout and it also puts me in risk if I've misread his stop as just slowing down to come off the roundabout. Also what if its a two lane exit, just beause the car in lane 1 stopped for me to cross doesn't means cars in lane 2 are going to do the same so that's putting me in danger
As a person whos been run over by a car on a green man, i am not ever trusting anyone but myself when crossing and you cannot control others that's the big problem. It's putting pedestrians in danger especially as msny don't know and a should is very vague why not put in zebra crossing or some sortbof markings to show where you give way to pedestrians. Plus also what when views are obscured on 2 or more lanes Lane. You stop, others in other lanes don't see and someone gets run over and maybe seriously injured. Its opened a real can of worms imo.
Many times i have seen a pedestrian in plenty of time on the ENTRANCE to a roundabout, but the road splits into 2 lanes on the entrance so i can't in good conscience stop and encourage them to cross in case someone behind were to use the other lane, not see the pedestrians as they are behind my car, and hit them
Which is great for those living in a metropolis, but forever everyone else the access to reliable public transport or indeed footpaths is poor. The car is essential for transport and little will change that in the foreseeable future.
All driving situations are about risk . Exiting a roundabout flow is the overall priority. Stopping unexpectedly for those following ( they are at an angle where the pedestrian can't be seen ) is high risk. Unless the pedestrian steps out , Where the risk then changes, be aware but do not stop and carry on with maintaining the flow.
I have started to not let pedestrians cross in these types of scenarios where no 'normal' crossings exist. Otherwise I am opening myself up to problems if someone goes around me or something and wipes them out. I could not live with myself if that happened. Likewise, I stopped ages ago 'flashing' other users across, if they decided to move in front of me then I will deal with it. Face it, roundabouts, you need eyes all around you and don't need to take on more workload when all a pedestrian needs to is wait for it to be clear for them to cross. Let's put the responsibility back on the pedestrian to look out more for themselves.
Absolutely, well said. I think the new rules are dangerous for pedestrians as they now seem to think that they can cross anywhere they like . They must take responsibility for what they do.
Pedestrians aren’t stupid , we are all pedestrians when we aren’t driving. Common sense dictates that you stop and look before crossing a road , regardless of the rule changes.
@@lmc3307 you are correct but there are so many out there that don’t, making it much more dangerous for pedestrians and drivers. I would be horrified if I hit someone but if someone just walks out in front of you what are you supposed to do ?
@@glenn1534 sorry but I think they are. So many seem to think that all the responsibility is on the driver but pedestrians must take responsibility as well and many don’t
15:27 interesting what Ashley says here, what if I had slowed down and let the pedestrian cross and someone came off the roundabout and smacked into the back of me? Surely they are not forward planning? Basically if everyone took a little more time accidents wouldn't happen
Indeed and that is most of the problem that people only “see” what is directly in front of them without actually seeing what is in front or around them For example, a couple of days ago we saw a taxi almost rear end another taxi as the one at the back was so focused on getting through the amber light they didn’t look to see the one in front of them had slowed down round the corner. I have given way to many pedestrians on roundabouts, single lane, dual lane and even triple lane roundabouts without any issues. Yes I have had a couple of toots from behind and customary hand waving but never almost rear ended and the pedestrian has always been safe as I slow gradually and not harsh How are you finding being out on your own now? (If you don’t mind me asking)
@@smilerbob it's ok, I'm trying to not get too irresponsible.... But still have fun at the same time, it's fine as I am a very safe and considerate driver
Id also like to add, When this new practise came in, not much was achually said about it. i saw a few short segements on the news and that was it (apart from your great videos of course). No awaremness or signs anywhere. And because its a highway code, really, only motorists are going to read about it (and most likely newer drivers). I stopped at a crossing at a roundabout a few months ago as inline with the new rule, saw the two people ahead of time, was turning left and i slowed and stopped for them to cross, only to be beeped by a car behind and the predestrians hesitating and waving me on (they crossed afterwards). And i put this down to the teaching of Stop, Look & Listen. Thats what we've all been taught to do, stop, look, listen then cross when clear. my neice whos in primary school is still taught this. so to me its still conflicting. If crossings were more further in then maybe it would work or all become zebra's. but the way it is now, i think its never going to catch on.
I didn't think the rule applied to roundabouts and not sure DVSA know what they truly want. Its not listed the same as junctions in the highway code. Personally i use the road markings on their guidance. Most junctions have double dashed lines (give way to traffic on the carriage way) and then the other side has a single dashed. Roundabouts have the single bold dashed line on the approach but leaving the junction there is no markings. Which, in my view, means its a continuation of the road and not a junction.
My concern isn't cars going into the back of me, its cars pulling out onto the roundabout from the entrance next to where I'm letting the people cross. Once you've gone past their windscreen they assume you've cleared the roundabout and drive into the side of you, this is why people get rear ended pulling out of roundabouts because the car behind is looking at cars on the roundabout and when they see a gap they'd take, they assume the car Infront has, don't look before moving forward and rear end the car infront.
I think we need to reinforce them by either building continuous pavement or or zebra crossings at junctions. People should be able to read the road and see what they should be doing even if they don't know the rules. I think on the whole the rules are fine.
As a pedestrian, I am far too cautious that drivers won't give way, especially exiting roundabouts. This means I wait, I am more than happy to wait for a suitable gap in traffic to cross. As a driver, giving way on junctions leads to pedestrians being confused on who goes first, therefore ends with both myself and the pedestrian waiting for an unnecessary length of time, disrupting flow for both of us. However, at simple road junctions, I have felt slowing early makes it MUCH clearer for pedestrians, and other motorists. Similar to slowing early to make it clear you are giving way to another vehicle. The DVSA however need to do much better.
it doesn't matter what rules they bring in, there will always be those who don't follow them, people still enter yellow box junctions when they shouldn't and that is a must not
Taking a exit from a roundabout with 2 lane exit could be dangerous if you are on the inside lane and give way to pedestrians it's not carved in stone the driver on outside will comply.
As someone who drives for a living, I have a few notes/things I’d like you to cover Stopping for a pedestrian if there are 2 lanes on the exit to me seems highly dangerous. If I stop in lane 1 in my van, I create a huge blind spot for both the pedestrian being able to see lane 2 and for approaching cars in lane 2 not seeing the pedestrian. I don’t want to cause injury to somebody and for this reason I personally will never stop in this situation unless I am able to stop in the middle of the 2 lanes, blocking both lanes from passing A lot of the times I stop for a pedestrian at any junction, the pedestrian doesn’t realise why I have stopped or won’t acknowledge my slowing/stopping. I give them a few seconds and if they don’t catch on then they’ve missed their opportunity. The pedestrian obviously doesn’t know about the rules (neither do a lot of drivers apparently) in place and when they wait to cross they usually look anywhere but the road, as they’ve already seen a vehicle approaching they assume it’s going to pass, when the vehicle slows down to let them pass, the pedestrian is still looking in a different direction I agree with controlling the vehicle behind you and I’m glad that I have this skill in my driving and that I use this on a daily basis subconsciously to slow traffic down before coming to a complete stop, I believe this has saved me many times from being hit from behind. However, if the driver behind is distracted, phone for example as I see all too often, then there’s not much controlling you can do as they’ll continue to drive forward and hit you. I know people who have been hit for this very reason. Too many drivers are distracted when driving as they get too complacent at their ability behind the wheel Ultimately, I think it’s a good rule to have as mainland Europe has had this rule for years and it works well over there. Our drivers need a lot of education and as you have rightly pointed out, DVLA need to advertise the rule if they want people to actually implement it into their driving habits. I’ve even seen police cars not abiding to this rule so makes me wonder how many people are somehow still oblivious to this rule
I fully support theese rules, not sure who else has tried to cross a busy roundabout on foot but its very scary and can take a very long time. I think the way the change has been communicated is awful. And more education and enforcement needs to happen
It's scary as it was never really designed for you at all. It was designed for cars. As reminded by ashley himself its to help with flow otherwise the traffic will build up and there be more traffic jams in places. Thats the whole point of these roundabouts they never ever were made for people but due to the ever growing population from towns to city area they over the years have started to mix people with them and it has lead to many people avoid crossing there due to the same points of either taking to long to get across or so scared they rather walk bit more up the road before crossing.
I don’t agree that these rule changes are keeping pedestrians OR drivers safe. When on the roundabout as a driver and about to exit, you can’t have your awareness focused on the exit to check for pedestrians AND keeping an awareness to everything else happening on the roundabout at the same time.
Personally, I think that anything which encourages pedestrians to enter a highway because they have right of way is dangerous. I also feel incredibly vulnerable when I stop to give way to them if I am exiting a major road onto a minor road. I get your point about braking harshly causing an issue, but even slowing down early, you are still relying on someone else understanding what you are doing and paying attention. There are loads of places across the country where there are multiple roundabouts close to each other, so you are potentially creating pedestrianised areas with vehicles in them.
That is of course precisely why the rule was introduced. Previously the only way pedestrians could get the traffic to stop so they could cross was to step out into the traffic. Now that motorist are required to stop when they are waiting, they no longer have and that is much safer. Virtually all roads in this country are historic pedestrian rights of way (hence rule H2: "Pedestrians may use any part of the road") and so are indeed pedestrianised areas with vehicles in them. That is they way it as always been.
I think there is one aspect people don't realise. It is about people with limited sight, vision. Those are the ones in real danger. The priority is there to make sure they don't accidentally enter the road and get hit by a car as it was not easy for the to see the car. That is why everyone has to think about what they do. It isn't about what I see, but what they see(pedestrians). That being said, I'm not sure I would feel comfortable crossing two lane road. It would be good to get some perspective from them. PS: I don't have problem with this rule myself. Is it a burden? Yes, sometimes. We have few exits that are not really suitable for this rule as you can't see well ahead. But as a rule of thumb, you just have to slow down and I think that is the main take from this rule. Don't rush, just take it easy.
Hi Ashley, thankfully this rule does not apply here in Ireland. We have traffic lights on the exits on some roundabouts. The bright Red light tells everyone to stop. However if you are approaching a T junction where you are naturally coming to a halt, if pedestrians are there you can safely usher them across. I drive a van, and no one is expecting me to stop at the exit of a roundabout to let someone cross. I don’t want to get hit from behind, And No it’s not about my ability, it’s about my concern not only for my own safety and the safety of my vehicle. But also the pedestrian and the motorist behind me. If I am practically stopped and I know it’s safe to allow people cross. If this rule is to be applied then it is up to the rule makers to Put a Zebra crossing with visible amber lights on the exit of roundabouts. Imaginary zebra crossings are as daft as the rule in its current form.
As a driver it’s not something I think is safe to do. As a pedestrian I would not expect cars to stop and don’t cross if they do. It’s just not safe. I’ll cross when there is a gap and when it’s safe
mr Neal, you say you can handle the people behind you, and sure, in most cases this is absolutely true. If the one behind you will stay behind you. But now you exit a round about. The one behind you decides to stay on it for a bit longer. Another driver came from the opposite side and wants to take it 3 quarters. There is a huge mount of dirt and bush on the middle of the roundabout which takes away the ability to see all sides. (we have many of em here in the Netherlands) This car from the other side decides to drive like a maniac and is coming around the roundabout with slipping tires and plows it right in your rear-end because he did not expect you there. Btw, it doesnt have to be a maniac. And so, you cant always control what is happening behind you. If you are the last to join a line of traffic, you may hope that the one who joins next has seen the line of slowly moving or stopped vehicles up ahead. But we all know this is not always the case, and so they may just plow into you. Difficult to control in some cases.
If you are to make a pedestrian priority change, you really should make it extra obvious by introducing zebra crossings at those places as well. In The Netherlands, pedestrians have priority at roundabout exits everywhere, and nobody gets confused, because there are zebra crossings at every single roundabout exit. The rule is very simple. No zebra crossing automatically means there's no pedestrian priority. The only other situation where pedestrians have priority, is with raised continuous sidewalks. This means that traffic taking a turn into a side street will have to reduce speed already to enter the bump of the sidewalk. That means other drivers will already *have* to watch out for turning vehicles, since they're *always* going to slow down when making their turn. The difference between slowing down and stopping for a pedestrian is not as big as continuing and stopping.
I personally think that when entering/exiting a roundabout with 2 lanes on approach would be incredibly dangerous to stop and let a pedestrian cross. Your vehicle creates a massive blindspot and pedestrians may not recognise that there are 2 lanes of traffic. All it takes is a vehicle unaware of the pedestrian who you stopped to allow cross...
There are many roundabouts that have a physical pedestrian crossing. It's down to any following vehicle to maintain a safe gap to the vehicle in front, no matter.
@afitzsimons yes, agreed. However I'm talking about roundabouts with 2 lanes on approach. Say you are in lane 1 and stop to allow a pedestrian across, often vehicles drive too fast in lane 2 past you, subsequently hitting the pedestrian who assumed it was safe to cross. You did everything you could to follow the rules and make it as safe as possible, but unfortunately not everyone has that same mindset.
@@lee53_ absolutely agreed, in this situation you are making it safer for the pedestrain if you DON'T stop.... by all means slow down just in case the pedestrain decides to step out but don't stop
@@afitzsimons yes but in this situation we need to prioritise safety over responsibility. In other words, you have to ask yourself "which is the lesser of 2 evils?" - Do I stop for a pedestrian and risk them being hit by a vehicle coming past me in lane 2, OR do I approach with caution but don't stop and then the pedestrain stays put and doesn't get hit?
Absolutely, this is really dangerous, there are lots where I live, and are busy with pedestrians. All need crossings installed. In the van I can block other vehicles but obviously this is less than ideal.
Here in the Netherlands, if pedestrians have priority on a roundabout, there will be a zebra crossing and yield markings for cars. If those aren't there, pedestrians have to wait. Honestly, seeing the rule change you guys had without accompanying adjustments to the infrastructure, I got very confused. I've never really seen pedestrian priority at a two lane roundabout either over here, it just seems so dangerous.
This 100%. I agree entirely with the principle of the rule. But it's an example of the government trying to change something by placing all the onus on poorly-educated drivers without any real commitment to or funding for redesigning urban roads to discourage speed. In this video Ashley is driving round some quite polite suburban roundabouts in quiet traffic. For bigger roundabouts on major routes, at busy times, with multiple exit lanes crossed by pedestrians, I'd venture that very few of us have the skill and awareness to manage the traffic behind us, given existing infrastructure.
It's a good solution but what with Shengen and drivers from other nations who have marked crossing points that don't require them to stop, in their homelands, it's unsurprising that even in a straight line at a compulsory UK zebra crossing, they too often don't stop.
@@neddyseagoon9601 The UK has never joined the Schengen zone.
If something has been initiated and its been done half arsed and with little consideration. The UK governemt have probably done it.
Look at the 2030 ICE car sales ban. Its 7 years away and the infrastructure is no where near close to being able to support mass EV adoption.
It cannot cope as it is today.
@@sahhull yup! No argument from me.
I am a professional driver and ive had some ADI training in the past, but I still stand by my comment that the give way on the exit of busy roundabouts is dangerous. You can control traffic behind to a certain degree, but the state of people's driving nowadays is just shocking and far too many times people will take risks and will just over take in a rush to get in front. I deal with this kind of 'beat the bus' mentality every day. Few years ago i slowed in plenty of time in a large bus at a Zebra crossing, for a man and his two young children to cross. i spotted in my driver mirror a car behind who as usual sees a stopped bus and think oh i HAVE to overtake!!! i quickly got on horn and screamed at the guy to stop as he was in front of me already on the crossing, he did and the car overtook me on the Zebra crossing at speed!! the man was screaming abuse at the car driver and thanked me for saving him and his daughters!! everyday people see a stopped bus and try to over take then spot traffic in front of me and do the whole slowly pulling back in behind in shame!!!
A new driver with P plates jumped a red light light and went right in front of my bus just yesterday, with the look through the drivers window at me as 'what's the problem???' well those lights have a red light jump camera, so that was captured no doubt, but if people can't even follow simple driving techniques like this, then we have no hope of people doing this correctly or safely! all i see is pedestrians getting hurt am afraid.
With you on this; it's not every driver, it's the handful of idiots who make these situations dangerous - but you have to drive as if it is every driver for the safety of the vulnerable.
the solution to people not obeying a law is not to repeal the law. otherwise, it would also need to be legal to drive and park up in bus lanes.
so what you are saying is we shouldn't stop for zebra crossings?
@@hairyairey you can use your horn in this scenario, that's the major exception at the end of rule 112: "except when another road user poses a danger."
@@shm5547only at Knowsley Safari Park
As an HGV driver, I completely agree with your comments about smart motorways. Every single day I see so many vehicles bunched up doing 70mph+... I don't think people realise how quickly it can all go wrong.
As a standard driver I never had any issues with them and in fact, one of the worst motorway encounters I had was on a “normal” motorway with a hard shoulder.
A wagon blew an outside tyre while in lane 2 where the debris eventually came to rest in lane 2. I was fine, saw it all unfold but the number of late beakers and swervers was unbelievable. I maintained lane 2 and slowed to a stop as I saw lane 1 stopped and someone about to recover the blown tyre from the carriageway - not recommended but as I saw it I could see it was safe…to a point
Anyway, that ramble was more to say if we give ourselves space it gives us time and anyone that says “well someone will go into that gap and I then have to slow a little to bring the gap back” really should have a refresher driving lesson or three
And this is the problem. I regularly see motorists of all kinds ignore the gantry signs etc of temp speed limits. It’s unreal. While smart motorways are not an issue. They become an issue due to others. I have no confidence in the diligence of many motorists out there and as such will opt for an alternative route.
@@TheGiff7 yep, see it all the time. Driving in red X lane or people who only slow down for the gantries with a speed cameras on and then speed up again, making a mockery of the system.
@@alexdavies1009 Your quite right in what you say but Highways also should get there act together as sometimes there are no "all Clear" messages to allow normal running to resume and you are left doing 50mph say and everybody starts speeding up...dangerous ? Today people are just rushing about too much and that causes accidents.
People should be forced to drive MK2 vw polo from 1985. The brakes were terrible and used to need a hell of a push to slow down. I still give a long stopping distance when I’m driving despite now having a car having really good brakes.
There is a real problem, I would suggest, with roundabouts where there are several lanes on the exit road. If you are in the left lane, and exiting on the left lane, and you see pedestrians on the left-hand side of the exit road and you decide to slow and stop for them, there is no guarantee that other cars to your right, exiting on the other lanes, will also stop. This puts the pedestrians in danger, as they may well start to cross when they wee you stop, and not see the other car coming on your right.
That same argument could be used for multilane zebra crossings. If you see a car next to you stopping at a crossing point you should be slowing and prepared to stop safely.
@@Chenty91 Yes, but multilane zebra crossings are very rare, for this reason. In fact I don't think I know of any off the top of my head.
Not to mention that multilane junctions don't tend to be in places where there is likely to be a large amount of pedestrian crossing traffic, so drivers are in a differnt state of mind (rightly or wrongly) and therefore may not consider that they should expect a pedestrian.
Should they pay attention to why car may be stopped in the lane to their left, of course. But the trouble is that for all the will in the world for people to drive with the correct level of awareness and competence, they don't (because of poor attitude or genuine human mistakes or small lapses in concentration); heck they could even be distracted by another situation that could appear more important for their attention at that moment.
And since pedestrians are normally quite weak vs a car or larger, whether they had right of way is ultimately irrelevant when they end up on the floor.
@@L5GUK also, everybody (hopefully!) is aware that you should allow a pedestrian to cross at a zebra crossing. They very clearly marked and definately not missable. Drivers approaching a zebra crossing should be aware of its presence and the need to be cautious of pedestrians wishing to cross. In the long run, providing the rules stay in place and are understood by the general motoring population, drivers should show this same level of awareness at any junction. Unfortunately, many do not at the moment, but in my opinion, everyone should have had this aware and cautious mindset even before the rules were put in place
@@Chenty91but zebra crossings have stripes and flashing pelicans.
@@Chenty91 Yes, but for a few points. Firstly, at a zebra crossing people are more likely to expect pedestrians to be crossing, and figure out why you have stopped. At present I think there are few drivers who know that pedestrians have priority at a junction when there is no zebra crossing. Then, of course, you have the difference between what you should do, and what people actually do. I have seen many UA-cam videos where pedestrians almost get run over on zebra crossings that cross several lanes. I just think that this rule increases the danger to pedestrians.
As a pedestrian and bearing the top priority for crossing at a roundabout, I am always on the lookout for motorists who have not spotted me and always wait until the traffic has cleared and it is safe to cross.
That’s exactly what I would do, stop, look and listen, wait till it’s clear then cross, not expect the traffic to stop
I'm sorry but I can't see the point of your comment. Isn't that just plain common sense!
Very few people, both vehicle drivers or pedestrians, know about this change from annectodal observations.
When driving I notice noone stops for pedestrians crossing unless I have already stopped - and honestly, I always feel quite apprehensive about stopping, especially on a multilane junction. I worry that pedestrian will get hit by a vehicle passing by that isn't paying attention, or the pedestrian assumes that it's safe because I've given way.
I have also noticed that most of the time pedestrians don't even seem to know what to do when I give way per the HWC. Causing hesitation, longer stopping times, and impacted traffic flow.
And as a pedestrian I notice that very, very few drivers actually stop as they should. The amount of people that give way approaching a round-about (as an example) are no more or less than before the change, and I don't think a single person has ever stopped for me crossing coming off a round-about.
We are in a bubble here on this channel as we, for the vast majority, want to improve and recognise the importance of proper driving and following of the HWC. But in reality I would wager that we make up an incredible small minority of road users.
I do fairly often chose to ignore a pedestrian's right of way due to safety, or because I don't think they'll know why I'm stopping. The amount of people I see approach a crossing on their phone, or otherwise not paying attention (because they don't know about their priority) so I chose to ignore and pass.
Yesterday is an example of stopping on the approach to a round-about to let a woman and a couple of chilren cross. A car coming off the round-about saw and stopped to give way, but the build up impacted the flow of the round-about and one van driver even beeped - who proabably deserves some choice words said for their impatience, attitude and disrespect for other people, but I digress.
I can see both sides of the argument. On paper it's a good idea, but only if everyone is on the same page. The trouble is only a very small minority are on that page. The rest are still struggling to read the previous one.
"The amount of people I see approach a crossing on their phone, or otherwise not paying attention (because they don't know about their priority)" - Something I'd like to add here is that as a pedestrian I have taken to feigning a lack of attention of the road, taking my phone out and looking at it for no reason, and standing back from the edge of the pavement in order to influence road users to ignore my priority in these situations. This gives me actual control of the situation and my safety rather than relying on everyone knowing what's what to do things safely. Of course, as Ashley says, if you manage the drivers behind you properly and look far you're likely able to be similarly safe and in control, but as you noted and he aluded to, it'll impact flow when pedestrians don't know what you're doing and take a while to assess whether they feel safe crossing after you've stopped.
you are correct, very few situations is it appropriate to use this rule. the main rule is, if it is safe to do so. a concept totally missed in this video
Even on single lanes, people can do 20 mph+ across a roundabout, even with obstructions (i.e. trees in the middle).
they probably do know about it, I am not going to walk out a roundabout and expect other vehicles to stop for me
@@rrp6405"if it is safe to do so" is implied. Same for any other rule in the HWC.
As a pedestrian, I really dislike the roundabout priority. I'm sure not everyone will see eye to eye, but I feel that roundabouts are too dangerous to have pedestrian priority; as you said, roundabouts are there to maintain and promote traffic flow, and generally don't have too much thought put in for pedestrians. Furthermore, I never know if the driver knows about the new "rules", or if any fellow pedestrians know either, and I don't want to pressure someone into stopping, or crossing when they are not comfortable, or unsure about the rules. I usually avoided crossing at roundabouts before this change, but now I do not cross at a roundabout at all, due to the uncertainty.
I think people forget that many, if not most, pedestrians are not up to speed with the Highway Code, and so won't know about the priority they have.
Not to mention when it gets dark.
Alot of people get surprised when they see a car with bright red lights on the back around around about, let alone a small shadow like pedestrian.
I know fully well certain individuals in dark tracksuits will try and abuse this to make a quick buck
A few years ago I was turning right at a roundabout in the evening. As I came around the built-up roundabout I saw an older pedestrian in the road, around 2 steps across a marked crossing. He tried to step back, but it was too far to get out of my way. I was driving slowly (night, blind exit) and had plenty of time to stop for him. Two seconds later I was rear-ended hard enough to push me into the path of the pedestrian, inches behind him. Stopping for pedestrians crossing near roundabouts is not a new problem but this new rule is a dreadfully poor attempt at trying to get motorists to think about what might be happening in the exit. It is lazy and shows that the transport ministry has no stomach for improving safety.
Would the person behind have stopped for the pedestrian? You might have just saved their life.
@@elliotpollard9083exactly that. The whole thing requires everyone to level up at the same time and outside of this place I'm pretty sure people who already have a license aren't interested
@@AdrianNelson1507 most people do have licences and are taxed and insured.
@@FFVoyager so what motivation do they have to be better?
@@AdrianNelson1507 if they drive in accordance with the Highway Code they don't need to get better.
As a (now retired) ADI, I have always had grave concerns about this whole change to the highway code. The issue not the ability to do things safely, although I would agree about the roundabouts, but the actual change in the rules themselves. The problem is that historically, the vast majority of rules in the highway code evolved to take into account changing conditions, with additional rules rather than wholey new rules. These latest changes demand that you stop doing certain things one way and do things a different way. After 18 months, I would be astonished if even 30% of experienced drivers are even aware of their existance, and of those 30%, I would expect that half are not aware enough of the changes to actually put them into practice, simply because you are trying to change their 'automatic pilot'. This results in one group of people doing one thing and another doing something different. This is inevitably potentially dangerous, but the new rule are too recent to have created any feedback in the casualy statistics. The fact that we are having to look at the vagueness of the rules in this way, demonstrates how poorly the whole project was considered in the first place.
Also, the evolution came about with changes to road design. Nowadays, we don't usually pass each other at crossroads driver-side-to-driver-side, but most junctions are marked up to account for the way that we are now generally taught, and the roads were changed generally first! Indeed, I have observed numerous places where I COULD try to help pedestrians with this rule, but have felt that neither the pedestrians nor others near me on the road are ready for me to do this (and, often, I am in a bus, so I have numerous other considerations, including my passengers, the idiot car drivers then placing their vehicles alongside so that I then can't manoeuvre due to the swing of my vehicle, and then they wonder why I'm not moving...)
Hasn't it always been the rule that you must give way when exiting a roundabout? Effectively a left turn: you must give way to pedestrians when turning,
What's new is entering the roundabout.
Roundabouts appear to confuse enough people as it is without adding vehicles suddenly stopping ahead of them.
That's the point. If it's sudden, someone's done something wrong.
isn't the point that it shouldn't be "suddenly" stopping though?
If you drive into someone in front of you, you were probably too close. The gap should be big enough to stop even if they make an emergency stop in front of you.
A lot of people drive way too close to eachother and either don't realise just how dangerous it is or simply don't care.
Those people should probably have to retake their tests.
In fairness, your roundabouts are quite frankly bonkers. Dual lane exits? Being allowed to leave the roundabout from anything other than the outside lane? Nuts.
@@Landrassa1 not really, as long as there are two lanes in and out, and people stick to their lanes, it works fine.
The problem is really only people who don't plan ahead and work out what lane they need to be in in advance and then make sudden changes without thinking.
I drive for a living & I agree, the DVSA have done a terrible job at getting the message out. One way to reach many motorists & pedestrians is to advertise the new rules on the sides, rear & insides of buses, most buses have adverts on them, and sometimes when you sat in traffic behind a bus you read the advert on the back.
I remember the side of a bus being used to advertise a political message, it worked however look at the mess it has us in!
I did a driver awareness course some years ago and I think it's safe to say that over 50% of the people there didn't even know the national speed limits. I think we're over estimating the ability of the general driving public to grasp something like this.
TIme to get a few of them off the road with stricter regulations and firmer punishments then 👍
That's fine, but then we need more support for cycling infrastructure, public transport and working from home.
If driving is to truly become "a privilege", most people should be able to and encouraged to do their job and live their lives without a car.
@@glenn1534 I think part of the problem with that is that I doubt that there will be much enforcement, and little punishment.
I think many people see driving as a chore, i.e. to commute or run a family rather than a pleasure and as a result they aren't interested in any form of self improvement, i think these people would prefer better public transport or self driving vehicles. I think there could also be a national scheme to improve driving standards through courses and tests in exchange for an insurance discount.
@@steveknight878 I agree. I think with today's car-centred culture, many who read about a driver hitting a pedestrian crossing where it's the ped's priority will immediately think 'well the pedestrian should have been paying attention' in a Pavlovian way, rather than questioning what actually happened.
I have been doing my best to follow the new guidelines regarding pedestrians crossing at roundabouts. But what I find is when a pedestrian is wishing to cross at my exit for a roundabout and even when I am slowing gradually and making it as obvious as I can, one of two things generally happens;
1. I get beeped.
2. The pedestrian stands there and doesn’t cross.
It’s far easier in my experience to command traffic to allow pedestrians to cross on the approach to a roundabout.
However, on one occasion I successfully held the traffic to allow an older gentleman to cross, he was very happy and gave a cheery wave as he started to walk across the road, but then in my rear view mirror I spotted some utter buffoon in a van mount the pavement to the left from several cars lengths back and accelerate down the pavement! With me sounding the horn to warn literally everyone the van came to a stop barely a metre from the man! In anger the old boy started shouting and whacking the van with his walking stick!
All I had try to do was the right thing, I left the scene of shouting, traffic carnage, criminal damage and dangerous driving in my mirror and wished I let the old man wait an extra 30 seconds 🤦🏻♂️
As someone studying road design, The biggest issue is that there is no visual aid for drivers.
They should have made the rules cleared by only in newer designs and slowly convert older designs to the new designs which makes it a gradual transitions for the better.
I know there is a dutch roundabout in cambridge that has raised footpaths and give way markings before the crossing.
Only if all roundabouts started adopting that design since it would help considerably.
@@davidty2006 Bear in mind dutch roundabouts only permit leaving from the outside lane (if you're doing a 3/4 turn you first move from the inside to the outside lane and only then proceed to actually take the exit) and typically have single lane exits.
@@davidty2006 If it's the one I'm thinking of it was only "Dutch" style in the sense of having pedestrian and cycle crossings on the roads. The major thing they missed was also redesigning the approaches and the roundabout to reduce traffic speeds: that form of control is invisible, but by reducing traffic speeds is probably more important for safety than the crossings.
As somebody who got a full licence in 1978 I've found that the biggest issue is that a lot of drivers are as thick as mince.
The Highway Code I read before passing that test 45 years ago says, very clearly - 'When turning at a road junction, give way to pedestrians who are crossing the road into which you are turning'. You don't need a 'visual aid for drivers' to understand where you are meant to give way.
Proof that it's easy to change words on a page of the Highway Code but far more difficult and massively more expensive to change tarmac and road markings in the real world.
You have not even mentioned the most important thing: the pedestrians have not been told about this rule. I have had quite a few instances where I have slowed right down to let someone cross, but they stop walking - and so an absurd situation arises! On another, related, note: I'm sure the Green Cross Code is no longer taught at schools. So many youngsters don't even look to check whether traffic is coming - they just text/stare at their mobiles while walking obliviously straight out into the road. 20moh zones have exacerbated this problem.
My thoughts exactly
Bingo!
Road safety tv program adverts would help they used to have them
Yes take speed upto 50mph outside schools remove zig zag lines they are only to save parking space for parents running late and if they can do 50mph won’t be late
Absolutely correct... Other countries have infrastructure to deal with it, ie smaller low speed roundabouts, or zebras as you enter leave roundabout. But all the dvsa have done is alter some words in a book that nobody reads.
In Australia you must give way to all pedestrians when turning EXCEPT for roundabouts. Pedestrians have to give way to cars in that case.
In the Netherlands traffic leaving a road must always give priority to traffic that stays on said road, regardless whether they're bicycles, pedestrians or whatever. The same principle applies to roundabouts, although there are typically also markings (priority signs for the bicycle lane, a zebra for the pedestrians).
By contrast NZ has no automatic pedestrian priority anywhere, unless the crossing point is marked. Mid street islands often complete with robust bulwarks may be provided at popular crossing points but to assist pedestrians only and do not denote priority.
@@Landrassa1 in Netherlands cyclists aim for pedestrians especially at the coach pick up point outside victory hotel Amsterdam. As the pedestrians try to go from pavement to coach. They think they have a god given right not to be aware of pedestrians on bit
Do away with the rule at round-a-bouts and put in pedestrian crossings or lights with pedestrian boxes in case of multi lane exits. Position either a few car lengths away from the actual exits. Simple, easy and nothing new for anyone to learn.
@@nuntius1933we do have an overriding requirement to pay due care and attention to avoid running down pedestrians though.
Pedestrians are more scared to cross is about as simple as I can describe it.
The rule change needs a nation wide awareness campaign so everyone is on the same page. The biggest problem I see right now is wildly different expectations from people.
I'm sorry but there is no chance I am stopping while still on the roundabout (unless they walk out, of course).
It's not my driving I'm worried about, it's the person joining behind not looking left.
There’s a roundabout I often use that has this problem - and angles and distances mean joiners are focussed to the right. The answer is to stop earlier so you halt literally in front of the other driver. That does manage the risk. I stop in front of them and then crawl forward once they are aware. It’s odd the first few times. Luckily it’s on the edge of a 20mph zone so isn’t seen as especially provocative. Although to aggressive hasty drivers they probably don’t understand. That’s their problem though really.
I think road markings make a big difference here. Having recently visited France, Spain, Italy and Germany, they all have a basic zebra crossing marking on the road and a simple sign all over towns including at roundabouts and even the Italians generally give way to pedestrians approaching them. Everyone just sort of casually gets on with working around each other (this is a general observation from being both a driver and pedestrian in these places without having studied their equivalent highway codes in detail).
In the UK a zebra crossing is a far more prominent and complex piece of civil engineering with loads of road markings either side and they are far less common (rare even in many areas) and I think that fuels the mindset of “cars have right of way” if it’s not a giant crossing with loads of markings, especially to people who haven’t read the Highway Code.
I think some simple low key markings as used on the continent would help all understand what is to be expected (especially the many who don’t read the Highway Code) though it’ll probubly never happen on cost grounds as councils would claim fitting a full blown zebra crossing with all the beacons costs too much.
I think you might be onto something there actually.
However, all them countries have more road traffic accidents and fatalities.
A zebra crossing requires safety audits to be undertaken on them before they can be implemented. So you will take into account the visibility of the pedestrians and what they can see based of the speed of the traffic and the local speed limits, so they shouldn't end up just around a blind bend etc. I expect a lot of the UK ones that we have right on junctions are there because they fit the standards at the time and would never be permitted now.
Visibility - Dark winter nights, dark clothing and heavy rain Ashley. None of the aforementioned seem to have been taken into consideration by the authorities when making up these new rules. Great Vid as always
It shouldn't be an issue. We have and had the same rules in Germany for years. Put some street light at the crossing, don't blast through the exists, and the issue disappears
@@PasteteDoeniel I wholeheartedly agree with your solution - add lights 'then' change rules, not the other way around
@@PasteteDoeniel LOL just put some street lighting, the standards are so poor here and lack of funding you are better taking it to court because you might win due to the lack of funding there as well..
Some of writers of the Highway Code are idiots!
@Ashley Neal Thanks for this video Ashley, I agree with your comments in this video and raising awareness. I have been training motorcyclists for over a decade and have been riding and driving since the 80s. I have been involved in road safety and driver training for many years.
So prior to the "new" hierarchy and rules, it was to my understanding a given that if a pedestrian was committed to crossing you gave way, and if they were about to cross you would generally assume that the vehicle would have priority, but a "good" driver would look for clues, engage with eye contact with the ped and hopefully there would also be a shared responsibility for the ped to take care of their safety and so on, and it sort of worked. Of course there were incidents, there always will be.
So now the powers that be introduce these new rules after a "consultation". Despite being in the industry, I wasn't consulted, and dont know anybody who was! Whilst this change was done with the best intentions, I dont believe that it has been thoroughly thought through. We have a lot of focus on road safety these days and vision zero with regard to road casualties and rightly so. But unfortunately what I see is that lot of campaigns address speed limit reduction and rules such as these which dont look at the whole picture.
If we look at road collisions and causation, there are many varied reasons for them, and generally a collision results from several contributing factors coming together, not just one factor such as speeding.
Driver training is varied, and despite the best intentions of people such as yourself and myself who do our best to train to a safe high standard, there are thousands of poorly trained road users who have zero interest in improving their ability and will never be required to do so as the system does not have any facility to produce drivers of a high standard, whether new or existing. And there will never be the political will to actually address this issue in the UK.
So if we look at the give way/priority roundabout question, of course, it should not be an issue. But it will be, and it will remain so. The DVSA could spend thousands of tax payers money on an advertising campaign, but as with drink driving, drug driving, excess speed, poor observation, inability to assess bends, inability to judge speed for hazards, it will not change driver habits or behaviour to any great degree. Sadly.
I have noticed over the years an increase in highways putting ped crossings on the exit of roundabouts, and thought then that it was a recipe for incidents. In my view the problem is not just "bad" driving, but many people struggle with roundabouts anyway, and in a strange place, looking for road signs, road markings, awareness of other vehicles puts a massive drain on peoples brain processes. Its fine when you know the location, and yes, it should be irrelevant if you read the road correctly, but reality is different to ideal world.
Research has shown that the human brain can only cope with so much information at any given time, and if you overload it something has to give. This is especially true with driving.
The other problem with the hierarchy is that whilst it doesnt say this, there is now an inferred protection given to the vulnerable road users that they dont have to take as much responsibility for their own safety as they should; I am seeing more and more cyclists and pedestrians doing things that are likely to cause themselves harm.
In the lest few decades I have seen a deterioration in the planning and implementation of the "rules" and legislation in the UK, and in solving one problem, others are created.
The best thing that can be done is to face reality and rebalance responsibility for pedestrians to cross in safe places, and a roundabout is complex and not a safe place to cross. All the best.
I've been a situation a few times now when I've been on my bicycle and I've spotted pedestrians waiting to cross at a roundabout. I slowed down well in advance and used hand signals to show my intent. I then found myself waiting in the middle of my lane while traffic continues to rush past in the next lane. If I were in my car I wouldn't be so concerned, by on a bike it can be pretty disconcerting.
Another issue I constantly find when giving way to pedestrians at any junction is either the pedestrians don't know it's their priority, or they stand there on their phones not paying any attention whatsoever. Sometimes the pedstrians will be watching for a gap in the traffic, I'll stop in front of them and they'll just look past me still looking for a gap in the traffic. It's difficult because you can't encourage them to cross without them doing their own observations. Sometimes I'll say to them: "are you crossing?", they'll sudenly realise that I'm there and giving way to them, then they'll just step out without looking.
In fact, Ashley has shown some footage of mine in a previous video where I give way to a pedestrian when exiting a roundabout, and the driver behind sounds his horn and then starts an argument.
Yes, to all you have described. And the end result can be people getting hurt or worse and apportioning blame doesn’t undo the damage.
I've had exactly this.
@@TerryMcGearyScotland "apportioning blame doesn't undo the damage". Absolutely spot on. This idea will kill
The highway code should increase safety, encouraging motorists to stop as they leave a flowing roundabout increases danger. Making driving more complicated and challenging than it needs to be increases the chance of something going wrong.
This seems to be a particular UK problem. Take Fendon Road roundabout in Cambridge. It's a dutch design, which doesn't seem to bother drivers in The Netherlands, yet from some of the media reporting here about it, you'd think it was going to cause the world to end! I think it's a cultural change - people need to slow down at roundabouts.
Can also increase risk because most drivers are unware of this change and are not expecting you to stop exiting a roundabout.
Then go a bit slower and be ready to exchange insurance details with people who are a bit thick.
As terms of their drivers' licence, drivers are required to keep up with changes in the HC.
A year and a half is more than enough time to update themselves with changes. Any driver who doesn't know the updates by now should have to do a mandatory resit.
@@FFVoyager What a stupid comment
My main issue with this is how distracted drivers can be when on roundabouts. They have to worry about right of way, keeping a steady speed, they have to keep an eye out for other motorists in their blind spots and may be watching/ listening to a Sat Nav. All while at any point having to stopwith little warning and without knowing whether other drivers are paying attention around them because a pedestrian has right of way on the exit of a roundabout. Wheras a pedestrian only has to look and see if a car is coming or not. The answer is clear to me, Maybe in theory what they have done makes sense but in the real world i think the cars should have right of way
there's an issue with pedestrians rushing across when someone does give them way- they aren't expecting it and so hurry across as to not hold you up- and so may not check if it's actually safe to walk out (which also explains why some pedestrians do not step out at all in these situations). It's the same idea with an oncoming car flashing you to turn right across their lane-there's potential for you to not do any observations before moving.
I'm a 'not step outer' ..i'm checking all lanes of traffic and assessing speeds etc ... I'll only cross if I feel safe. Thank you those that do but please dont get mad just cos I noticed the twat showing no signs of slowing let alone stopping in the other lane!! I've actually been sworn at exactly the moment a high speed overtaker went past on the other side ! ... mind you I've also had those that gentle straddle across the lanes so that there is no option to pass them ... I think those ones must walk a lot hehehe
Hi Ashley, well that was the calmest 'rant' that I've ever heard on You Tube! I am a subscriber to your channel as I benefit from continuous driver education. I'll be 66 next month and if I'm still breathing at 70, I'll book some refresher lessons with you prior to re-applying for my licence. BTW I live in Southampton. Stay safe!
It would be interesting to know the figures on rear-end crash insurance claims since the pedestrian/cyclist roundabout rule change.
@@icouldbewrongicouldberight Very true mine have gone up 30%, I need a new car so I might as well get some one to rear end me.
@@icouldbewrongicouldberight Yes, but the price for many things has done up enormously in the last year. Don't expect the insurers to miss out on *_that_* excuse for bumping their profits.
Ashley: This will be a RANT and a MOAN
Also Ashley: Proceeds to have a reasonable and balanced discussion
Especially 9:19
On this, he's got it wrong.
Information in the form of a letter to another driving school, sent from Ashley's managing department, the government, states quite clearly that there is no requirement to stop for waiting pedestrians at junctions but that drivers need to be travelling with that in mind. That they make that decision to stop or not for waiting peds and certainly if a ped gets in the way. (Yes I know what the code says... and it also better instructs pedestrians, in preexisting sections, more fully about where and how to cross). Few learner drivers in my experience, having allegedly studied the whole code, even know those rules.
Given deliberately slower approaches to turns, it's more likely that waiting peds with priority will then cross. If you recall... Ashley has the safety mantra that. Priority is given, (I read ceded for given), not taken. That logic also applies to peds with code given priority if it looks dangerous, surely?
Nor does the code require any driver to stop on roundabout exits unless (obviously), someone, as in every other scenario, is in the way. Or could be anticipated to be.
I was teaching this way, 41 years ago.
In general, if it's in your way, or will be... why keep accelerating or moving at high speed, toward it unless it will be gone and clearly not likely to be replaced by another? It's a simple concept. But none of that, (correct observation and anticipation aside), required stopping just because someone was waiting to get in the way.
Think only like that and you'd cede priority to every vehicle waiting at give way lines instead of anticipating and only then acting on their potential to obstruct you.
Again stopping for peds is clearly required under newer rules, in general. Government replies however, regarding not stopping insist it should be the driver's decision if peds haven't made it for him. It's just about the same principle of how a Zebra crossing works.
But as another dimension; for how long do you wait on the major road, if they see you but don't cross, if indeed the driver has no say in it?
@neddyseagoon9601 ORLY?
Yes Ashley implies the opposite.
A driver was really annoyed the other day when I wasn't crossing as a pedestrian. I try not to look at them and don't wait immediately next to the curb to show I'm not just gonna jump out in the road, but driver's insist to follow Ashley's practice, when not all pedestrians want that.
Near me there are hardly any junctions where I cant wait a short time for a gap.
The only one I think that's a frequently annoying for me as a pedestrian is this T junction with trucks and like coming out, where I'm glad at least some have the sense to allow pedestrians to cross since they are waiting to join the main road. Unlike cars, it can be difficult to squeeze between trucks.
As a pedestrian, I have now started instinctively 'holding back' from the kerb at junctions/roundabouts with no controlled pedestrian crossing. I'm nervous that a motorist might slam on the brakes and cause a crash. I'd much rather just wait a few seconds until things are clear, then cross.
To me, it's all about Ash's Golden Rule- flow. It costs me 2 seconds and no danger to wait for the car to pass. For the car to wait for me costs more time, is dangerous AND btw is worse for the environment and road wear & tear.
I am never going to stop at the exit to a round about to let someone cross who is stood there waiting. It makes zero sense to risk anything. 99% of the time in the examples I have seen it just causes confusion when a motorist stops to let someone cross anywhere when the pedestrian is not expecting it. It would have been much quicker and safer for everyone if the car had just drove past and the pedestrian crossed behind them. If I slow gradually at the exit to a round about and stop to let someone cross that doesn't stop the idiot behind flying around the round about (can't always see your exit as you go round) and hitting me from behind or hitting the pedestrian crossing the road. All this would be for absolutely nothing as by the time the pedestrian realized what is going on theywould have been across the road quicker if I had just drove past and they then crossed behind me.
I couldn't agree more Ashley. I live in a relatively small town/village with practically no zebra crossings, a few pelican crossings, but primarily small roundabouts. Also, a lot of elderly people, both pedestrians and drivers. And I have to admit that I very often find myself braking this rule, as I feel it's simply too dangerous to stop, or it would quite heavily impact the flow of traffic. I get the pedestrian priority, but I hope this rule is changed in future.
What about the flow of pedestrian traffic? At a busy roundabout a pedestrian (particularly elderly people) can be stood for an age waiting to cross.
@@glenn1534 Better to wait and get home at the end of the day than not wait and get hurt or worse killed.
@@TestGearJunkie. Are you saying it doesn't matter if drivers break the HC because bodies are softer than bonnets? Anyone handling heavy machinery needs to take care.
@@glenn1534 I didn't say that at all. I said I'd prefer to wait until there aren't any vehicles about than risk a driver not stopping in time. Yes, drivers need to take care. The sad fact of the matter is, a lot of the time they don't.
@@TestGearJunkie. More action needs to be taken to get those drivers off the road. It's a sad state of society that we just accept ~1,800 deaths a year from RTCs rather than saying that it's not acceptable for someone's life to be cut short.
It's all about observation and awareness, I approach roundabouts slowly and look for all the signs of what might be. If I see a pedestrian wanting to cross I slow up even more, no danger still rolling and allow them to cross let it flow.
Roundabouts need to begin being redesigned to match those that prioritise pedestrians/ cyclists found in the netherlands and belgium to match these rules. The rule is a good start, but needs to be matched with infrastructure
Absolutely. Without infrastructure, education and enforcement, we'll be having this discussion five years from now.
The infrastructure is the most important aspect.
Really, the 'it might be unsafe to give way at roundabout exits' thing is just the most obvious issue that come under the overall category of problems caused by the UK's infrastructure being overwhelmingly designed for use by cars, with a very distant second thought given to pedestrians and none at all given to cyclists. Consequently, just changing the rules without changing the infrastructure means nothing in practical terms; most of the things that make British roads hostile to cyclists are still there, even if you could magically compel everybody to comply with the new rules. Junctions are still the wrong shape, cycle lanes aren't properly positioned to make cyclists visible, bikes and cars are compelled to share infrastructure even where it's clearly a really bad idea etc etc.
Changes to the Highway Code should have been introduced alongside an actual infrastructure programme that would make them effective. As it is, the rule changes are basically there so that the Gov can say how friendly they are towards cyclists without having to spend the money needed to actually change anything. So long as your average cycle lane is paint on a road rather than a physically separate right of way that's protected from incursion from cars, it doesn't matter what the rules are or how well they're enforced, there's not going to be a Dutch-style mass uptake of cycling.
A few junctions are slowly being turned in to Cyclops junctions which address this.
@@PedroConejo1939 Education shouldn't be necessary. If you use a driving license then it's your responsibility to know what the rules are. It's no one's responsibility to teach you
@@Joe11924 That's ivory tower talk.
I am a advanced PCV (Bus) instructor and I totally agree with your assessment Ashley, most drivers have not read the highway code since they passed there driving test. They believe that they are good drivers because they get away with drive fast all the time, where they are just being lucky. I have taught the Smiths system of advanced driving for many years and I believe the two second rule is too short and a four second rule to be a lot safer way to drive. Every day on average FIVE people die on our roads and many more have life changing effects from road accidents. If we all followed the rules then more people would be alive today.
Great videos Ashley keep up the good work.
In other countries the give way principle is similarly applied, but road markings are such that they have a zebra at every junction reinforcing the right of way. Additionally, speeds are lower in urban areas and rigorously enforced. It needs a coordinated effort of education, road design, road markings and speed limits.
Look at the satellite images of Helsinki. It can be done, just takes a bit of will and money.
I'll make the other point that a significant number of drivers are wilfully ignorant of the rules and no amount of education will ever improve their driving.
Good Infrastructure reinforces good behaviour.
I am a cyclist, and I am petrefied every time I give-away to pedestrians at exits to roundabout. When I do stop there is a delay as the pedestrian do not know what to do, and I worry that a car behind is concentrating on me and don't see the pedestian and will overtake me. Scrap the rule at roundabouts, obvious ridiculous rule.
I think a better solution, if we want to do something like this, is what I have seen before (more commonly in Europe but also in places in the UK) is to have actual zebra markings, but have them slightly down the road, so at least 2 or 3 vehicles can clear the roundabout before hitting them.
More generally though I am a fan of making cycling, and walking as easy as possible, as far as I am concerned when the pedestrian is waiting on the pavement, they are pretty safe. If they are in an island in the middle of the road of course less so. So I prefer to judge on how vulnerable do I think the pedestrians are. What is the overall level of risk to them having to wait for a gap, vs to me potentailly being rear ended.
I am in favour of a lot in the changes to more vulnerable road uses, such as wider passing distances for cyclists, but I just think this (the pedestrian priority) was ill thought through. If you want to make things safer for pedestrians, give them better infrastructure (actual puffin crossings, zebra crossings, continuous pavements accross t-junctions, bridges etc).
Thanks for your lengthy comment which is what I wanted to say exactly myself , but you have saved me the effort.
it's no good having them 2 or 3 car lengths down the road unless you install railings, as pedestrians (quite rightly) will wish to take the most direct line. People need to stop treating roundabouts like a race track and start expecting vehicles to stop on them, after all, it's not that unusual.
@@shm5547 And railings dont always work as pedestrians are quite entitled to use the road side of them.
When I'm out running I hate it when drivers stop to let me across the road. I'm trying to judge your speed and cross behind you, I've almost run into the side of a car before because they decide to brake at the same time as I'm planning to go around them. It's usually quicker for me if you carried on and got out of my way and allow me to cross in the gap behind you, instead of making me wait for you to slow down and stop and while I'm attempting to see through your reflective windscreen and work if you're waving me across or not and if it's safe for me to step out in front of you. Plus it's extra dangerous when there's two lanes and you're waving me out into another driver who hasn't decided to stop. I don't feel comfortable stepping in front of your car, just keep moving and let me find my own gap. Also, I might have been thankful for the chance to stop and wait and take a breather for a few seconds, and suddenly I feel like I'm forced to move because you've stopped and held up traffic.
This has been the rule in Germany for years, and it works. A huge problem that they have in the UK are aggressive drivers and the me me me approach.
That isn't really a problem just for the UK, I've seen plenty of aggressive or even borderline psychopathic behaviour in Germany as well, especially in the last few years.
We are much more congested I would say
The epidemic of the mini roundabouts is a big issue. No need for them. People are sick of them. In Germany it's "rechts vor links" and that should be enough.
UK drivers are WAY less aggressive than US drivers, and US drivers manage to stop for pedestrians to cross.
@@kenbrown2808 Have you seen the US pedestrian fatality rate? It was 7,508 in 2022, vs 470 in the UK. That's 16 times the number of pedestrian deaths from 5 times the population. Per head of population, that's a 3 times higher pedestrian death rather than in the UK. That is in a country famous for driving rather than walking. Of course, the Americans fondness for huge, pedestrian unfriendly vehicles and the turn-right-on-red laws are not helpful either, but it rather points to American drivers not being particularly pedestrian friendly.
If you'd chosen Germany or the Netherlands as an example, you'd have more of a point, but the US is a bad example on pretty well every aspect of road safety.
As far as I've seen, there has been next to no public information campaign around the changes. People that do know about them are reluctant to follow them because pedestrians and other motorists are unaware. The changes to postage stamps have had far more publicity and that's not life and death.
Just paint in zebra crossings and be done with it. Here in Finland all roundabouts have a traffic sign to give way when entering a roundabout. This applies to giving way to cars in the roundabout as well as pedestrians AND cyclists on their own cycle patch (next to the pedestrian crossing). When exiting a roundabout, you have to give way to bicycles and peds as 1) they are on a zebra crossing and 2) you are considered a turning vehicle so you have to give way to other traffic. Easy.
Great idea, but the state of roads in the UK is atrocious. Fixing the numerous potholes & and repainting the road markings would improve peoples behaviour on the roads.
Infrastructure is the real problem here
Not a very bright idea.
Roundabouts should improve traffic flow.
Doing that would jam junctions solid.
I have an idea...pedestrians should give way to cars.
@@nearlyretired7005 I guess Finland is one huge traffic jam then?
Make places more pleasant to walk and cycle, and people might walk and cycle. Which helps reduce traffic jams. Everyone wins.
One of the issues with this is that pedestrians are still not used to their right of way yet. Only today, as I was exiting a roundabout three people were waiting on the kerb so I stopped to let them cross. Two of the three crossed immediately (and thanked me), the third stayed on the pavement. When the first two crossed in front of me I looked at the third one who still had not moved, so I prepared to move once those crossing were clear. As I started to move the third person then decide to step onto the road.
As a pedestrian I don't like it. I would much rather wait until the traffic has cleared than cross in front of a car that's stopped
@@JamesSomersetActorand that's the solution right here... the highway code should change to stipulate to pedestrians: 'At a busy junction or a roundabout, make sure the traffic has cleared before you set your foot on the road!'
I know it might take forever to clear traffic at a busy junction or it might never happen. In such case, don't cross at such junction!
There is no such thing as right of way in the Highway Code. The words are not there ,and it is dangerous to think in those terms. The Highway Code says give priority, but everybody has to bear in mind that you can't just assume it. Always, but always check.
@@TheEulerID Yep, it's no good if you've been hit with a lump of metal and then you're in hospital moaning "...but I had right of way".......
.....whereas all drivers are aware, considerate, thinking-ahead & non-speeding folk.
just fills me with anxiety every time i see a pedestrian while im leaving a roundabout as the average british driver probably isnt paying enough attention to stop comfortably
This is just dangerous for both the drivers and the pedestrians. I hope they revert this law. Thanks Ashley for the video.
On the contrary, it makes the roads safer.
Dangerous for who should be the question? Not being able to cross a road is dangerous for peds
@@andyedwards7800 Stopping to let a pedestrian cross is an excellent way of getting rear ended and getting pushed forwards and hitting the pedestrian. Most people accelerate off a roundabout back to road speed.
@@sahhull well change that then. As I said being unable to safely cross a road is dangerous for peds and they are more vulnerable
@@andyedwards7800 I wonder what happened to the green cross code?
Seems like the blame for crossing the road unsafely has been moved from the pedestrian to the driver.
I choose to not cross at roundabouts. I walk an extra 20 yards away from the roundabout
There are a number of issues. Firstly, I have no issue with stopping (if I can) on approach to a roundabout as you should be slowing down to giveway anyway and it's a kind thing to do.
However, one of the biggest issues is pedestrians. Many pedestrians believe that the Highway Code only applies to vehicles and therefore, unless they have cycled or learnt to drive a motor vehicle. Therefore, when you do stop, they look at you for several seconds not understanding what is happening.
The Highway code splits Junctions and Roundabouts into their own sections so MOST people will not classify a roundabout as being a "junction" from that POV.
The other issue is this - when you turn in/out of a T-Junction, there is a broken white line to signify turning and and double white giveway lines when you are exiting. On the approach to a roundabout, you have double white giveway markings but you DO NOT have any markings on exit. This would imply that once you are in the roundabout you are on the "main carriageway" and the lane you are in continues in the direction of your travel off of the roundabout - therefore, most people would only think of the "junction" part of the roundabout as being the entry and not the exit. This is where the issue arises.
Also, as you mentioned, roundabouts are designed to clear traffic quickly and efficiently. The stop doing that if you have to slow down on exit just in case a pedestrian is waiting to cross.
Re pedestrians just looking at you, one of the problem with the rules is that people probably won't go unless you specifically wave/flash them out, and i really dislike doing so as it's too easy to take that and try and rush across without properly checking it's safe to.
I think that point that 'most people will not classify a roundabout as being a "junction"' is correct.
They are wrong of course.
@@FFVoyager Yeah, I think the fact that the Highway Code has them separated does cause some confusion.
@@wscottcrawford yes. I think they make the 'rules' too complex.
The Code is unnecessarily verbose and in their 'committee' way tends to make simple concepts complex.
@@FFVoyager I would also agree with Ashley that many of the rules of the Highway Code are written so vague as to confuse the situation.
Road safety depends upon everyone agreeing that the rules make sense & are designed to be as clear & safe as possible.
Being human, road users including pedestrians may not always live up to these highest ideals - hence the emphasis in the HC on caution & consideration on the road, particularly when driving.
However courtesy & consideration is an individual thing, perception of it varies from person to person & situation to situation. Trying to encode it into a set of rules which are more vague & less specific than the rest of the HC (i.e. pedestrians at junctions) , IMO undetmines both safety & goodwill on the road.
Example: A mother with baby buggy on a street corner engaged in conversation with her friend. Is she about to step into the road, assuming the driver will stop (instead of making eye contact & confirming)? Or lost in conversation, unaware of all the cars slowing down for her as they pass? Until she steps into the road, assuming...?
As a adriver, my primary responsibility is to be safe & courteous. As a pedestrian, my primary responsibility is to keep myself safe. The more people understand & agree with the rules & the easier they are to follow, the fewer accidents there will be. The reverse is also true. Only politicians & lawyers benefit from rules that are less clear than they could be.
The UK road system is such a mess. I spend a lot of time driving in Europe where this is so normal, but the road layouts are far more suited to it and the general attitude towards driving is far superior.
European average road deaths per 100,000 population: 9.3, UK: 2.9. So we must be doing something right, either with our roads or with our driving.
Let's not forget that UK drivers are some of the best in the world. Look at the stats on road deaths. Perhaps other countries need to be looking to us for tips on road safety rather than the other way around.
@@ianmason.the UK is still part of Europe. We're not in the EU but we are still a European country.
@@hikaru9624 I'm sure they know that. Before brexit, people still referred to Europe and the UK as separate. It refers to the geographic point that we are not part of mainland Europe.
@@fubar12345 Hopefully they know that. It's just this is the internet, it's alarming what people don't know that's just every day things.
Anything that adds confusion is generally bad. This rule adds confusion, coupled with really poor communication at launch (and after), I can only say it's been a disaster. Most people I encounter seem to think it mean pedestrian priority at EVERY stage. ie that pedestrians can just walk out into the road and expect traffic to stop for them. I had an encounter on Tottenham court road a few weeks ago with a young girl (late 20's) who was obviously a shop worker (and judging by the fact this happened after 9am, probably late). She only looked one way before walking into the road and only noticed me by the time she got to the middle of the road. I'd already slowed down in anticipation, but when she saw me, she stopped dead, so I carried on rolling along. As I passed her, she called me a 'W&nker' (which is accurate, but a little over familiar, seeing as we don't know each other). I stopped the bike and said: 'You what?' to which she said: 'You should have stopped,'. The irony was that there was a pedestrian crossing about 80 yards up the road and she even had the gall to point to it and say: 'The lights are on red at the crossing'. To which I said: 'Well, then cross there. That's where you're supposed to cross!'. She gave a bit more verbal before going into the shop where I guess she works. I suspect she was the type to just do as she pleased, but I have a suspicion that she thinks the 'pedestrian priority' means pedestrians can cross wherever they like, whenever they like and EVERYBODY else has to stop. I also see many comments on videos where a pedestrian almost gets run down and people say: 'Oh but the new highway code says pedestrians have priority'. Now I don't rely on others following 'rules' to keep me safe. I stop at EVERY light (even if nobody is around...mostly because I need a breather!). I don't get up the inside of cars and lorries near junctions, even if they 'should' be looking out for me. I just hang back and make certain I don't get squished. Similarly when walking, I don't 'hope' someone has seen me, I wait till the crossing is green, and even then still look (as I know many cyclists go through red lights). I don't want to be in an ambulance saying: 'But it was my right of way'. I'd rather hold back a few seconds and stay alive than hope my 'rights' will protect me.
One thing I find is that pedestrians often don't understand why you're slowing and giving way, especially when exiting a roundabout. Sometimes they even abort the crossing when the car behind beeps, perhaps thinking that I'm beeping them to get out of the way. Other times they rush across and don't do the observations they need to do. Our culture tells pedestrians that cities belong to cars and that they are the lowest life form when stepping onto a road.
They should've given guidance to straddle the lanes to protect the pedestrian. I think multi lane roundabouts are an absolute travesty. They're supposed to be safer than a crossroads, not faster (imho)
Thats not the feeling I get as a motorist...far from it.
@@paulstevens9409 Your also a motorist so you won't know the feeling.
I hate it when cars stop to let me cross. I’d rather wait until I’m certain there’s no cars in any direction or no crash about to happen before stepping into the road. It’s not hard for pedestrians to stop and look then cross.
Except zebra crossings. If you don’t stop for a zebra crossing you’re a c****
The problem is that approaching or exiting a roundabout the law would work ,however even if you approach slowly the majority of drivers are too close behind and not aware that you may stop especially on exiting. With approaching you may stop for a pedestrian on the left lane but as the pedestrian crosses there is no guarantee the outside lane takes the same amount of care putting the pedestrian in danger
If the intent is to make things safer for pedestrians then it was ill thought through and should be reverted because *in practice* (as opposed to idealised theory) it's actually increasing risk in various scenarios (not holding my breath for a mea culpa from the DVSA though).
Nah it makes the roads safer and reduces risks
My own thoughts as an ADI is that the new guidance (and of course it is guidance not a rule as no new law or changes to existing laws were made - nonetheless it's the guidance against which driving standards would be assessed criminally should it come to it, so it needs paying attention to) is an understandable concept (although I have a few issues with it - in particular that it runs the risk of encouraging the most vulnerable to pass responsibility for their safety to others - cars should stop, so I'll just walk out - have seen it happening more already). But as is pretty much normal in the UK it has been implemented really badly as none seems to have thought about how it will work with all the permutations of junction types as Ashley describes in the video.
All procedures and rules around safety work best if they are easy to understand and easy for typical users to implement. Safety procedures get disregarded or badly implemented when they are confusing or awkward. This is just basic behavioural science. These changes fail to meet those criteria (and you didn't have to be a genius to realise that would be the case), so will remain problematic. Furthermore, any attempt to improve or clarify them is likely to lead to even more confusion amongst both pedestrians and drivers. The trouble is people at the DVSA, and ADIs like Ashley and myself are essentially 'driving nerds' - we think about this stuff all the time and probably quite like all the detail. Most drivers, frankly, don't give a toss and just want to go from A to B quickly (and hopefully safely) - they don't care, and never will care, about the nuances of major roads, minor roads, roundabouts, traffic lights with crossings, those without etc.
In light of the video the other day of the motorbike getting nudged from behind, I remembered I've actually had a student fail a test in exactly that situation (minus collision). They stopped coming off a roundabout (not even that abruptly) for pedestrians who were stable and not actively trying to enter the road when we had vehicles behind. The examiner explicitly told them at the end that if the pedestrians are happy to wait they should have continued given that they had vehicles fairly close behind. I've also seen driving faults given in similar situations where there's been a fairly abrupt stop (but without vehicles behind).
In the last 18 months, I've never encouraged my students to stop coming off roundabouts because it just doesn't fit safely with how most people drive, and I've yet to have anyone given even a driving fault for not stopping in that situation with pedestrians. Going minor-major or major-minor on the other hand, I have seen faults given where it would have been easy and appropriate to stop. So from my experience it seems even the examiners (in my area at least) have reservations about roundabouts.
See also the headline of another change at the same time. "Cyclists get priority going ahead at junctions" - sounds good, but I'd advise against doing that going minor to minor at a crossroads...
I’ve found these rules have actually increased hostility to pedestrians. I saw a video the other day about zebra crossings and it was full of people saying pedestrians should find a gap because vehicles cannot stop in time for them to cross. That was insane to me - it’s a clearly marked crossing. I dread to think how these drivers would handle a junction.
Those people should hand in their license and never drive again.
Drivers not giving me enough space on a zebra crossing is one of my top irritations as a pedestrian. Many drivers just slow enough to let me cross and then zoom across behind with very little leeway. I find it unsettling
@@frogsplorerry using the ones where I live when the roads are busy. The cars / vans / lorries stop on them so you have to walk in the road to cross as well as the drivers that nudge forward as you are crossing to accelerate away just missing the back with their mirror 🤬
Cars in the UK need to learn to give way to pedestrians a lot more. Having driven in Canada for the last 22 years and coming back here - it is shocking that they do not. Up here in Glasgow Scotland people pull on to roundabouts very fast if it's clear to the right and accelerate and exit even faster. They last thing they expect you to do is stop for a pedestrian coming up to a roundabout or certainly coming off it. It's going to cause accidents with cars & possibly pedestrians, as you stop in lane 1 and they step out and into lane 2 to be walloped by fast car. I liked your control of people's speed by your slowing them down, hard to on a bike even though there is less obstacle to visibility as they, car behind, are focused on you the bike and not in front. Everyone needs to start giving way to pedestrians more basically & get used to that and others doing so.
The DVSA need to change the rules. The new rules around pedestrians are stupid for so many reasons. Most pedestrians I've given way to feel awkward about holding up a queue of traffic while people are getting rear-ended and beeping out of confusion and impatience. Pedestrians have always been able to spot gaps and make the crossing. Just revert the rules. And yes, I spend a lot of my time as a pedestrian... deliberately waiting away from teh edge of the road so people don't feel like they have to stop.
I have just read through all the Highway Code relating both to roundabouts and to pedestrians. I could find no SPECIFIC mention that drivers should give way to pedestrians at roundabouts. I think it is a very dangerous concept. I would only do it if the traffic was very light and I felt sure there was no other vehicle about that could that could cause an accident in the time it would take the pedestrian to cross. As a pedestrian I only cross if I am sure there is no vehicle that can hit me and I hang well back from the kerb so drivers will not think they should stop. If traffic is so heavy that I have to wait several minutes in the rain to cross the road that tells me it is a dangerous place to cross. Nowadays much life is "risk assessment" heavy. If you got Health and Safety on the roundabout question they would almost certainly ban 80 per cent of them. And the idea of cyclists having to give way to pedestrians at roundabouts is so rich in danger it makes me shudder.
HI, Ashley - I enjoy watching your videos on driving, even though the rules described don't always apply to me, since I am not in the UK. However, the thing with pedestrians and roundabouts is just silly. The idea that a driver should (ever) think about whether or not to stop is very confusing. Where I live (in Denmark) you have to stop whenever you encounter a pedestrian (or bike) trying to cross - no matter the place of crossing. It makes it much easier to react, because you ALWAYS have to react (stop). Simple rules rule :-)
Where I live, there is a mini roundabout near a sixth form college. There is the entrance to the college, a residential road to the left of the entrance, a crossing with lights about ten meters from the roundabout on the road to the right and a zebra crossing about forty meters on the road straight ahead from the entrance. The children, or young people, from the college never seem to use the crossings, they just walk across the road and expect drivers to stop. Most are wearing headphones or engrossed with their mobile phone. There have been countless accidents where a vehicle has had to stop because someone has walked into their path. If you say anything, you just get 'the finger' or mouthful of expletive abuse. I did have a try at being a driving instructor back in 1977. I took my Advanced driving course and took students out with another fully qualified instructor in the back, but an accident with a police car, where the student accelerated instead of braking, and my not used to the dual controls, and we ended up breaking the rear lamp of the police car. The police officer was quite annoyed at first, and when he was made aware of the situation, we all had a good laugh. I also took the Advance Driving Test in a 44 ton articulated lorry and passed, but I do not consider myself a perfect driver. Now at the age of 72, I still drive with the same care I had with the lorries. I think myself lucky that I had some good instructors when taking the Advanced courses. But I could never be a driving instructor as I no longer have any hair to pull out. Love your videos.
The only reason I know about these rules is due to you and Black Belt Barrister Dan and, after 55 years under the old Highway Code, it has taken some adjustment, but I’m coming to terms with them. I surprised my wife yesterday when I stopped to let a pedestrian cross at the exit to a roundabout. It was safe and there was no drama, although I did keep a close eye on the car behind 🌞
This rule is totally dangerous. If you stop to let pedestrians cross your likely to have someone run into the back of you. Not to mention the so many different nationalities we have in this country that drive but don’t understand the culture let alone have never even seen a Highway Code book.
Stopping in Lane 1 of a two lane roundabout at an exit is a recipe for disaster, around 80 percent of the time this has made things more dangerous so no longer do it.thw video you showed is a different situation as it was a single carriage way. In many duel carriage way roundabouts the dropped kerbs are only a matter of a couple of meters on the exit and if you factor in the angle of your vehicle vehicles fast approaching in Lane 2 have no visual of thr pedestrian, Ashley to mentioned managing the people behind you. How do you figure that on a two lane roundabout exit.the is not about being g hit behind this was all about the safety of the pedestrian this has had the opposite effect. As a motorcyclists I slow my speed on roundabouts more than my car. The solution is simply put a zebra crossing at every junction and roundabout. 3000 years of evolution reminds people that assuming vehicles are doing the right thing and it's safe to cross with out an external mechanism ie a light or zebra crossing will mean you end up dead or injured and mo longer in the gene pool. That's why pedestrians don't know how to react when you stop. Most do nothing and wait with a be blan expression and others just wave you on. It simply doesn't work at a practical level. You mention Ashley in many videos driving standards are getting worse, this I completed agree so this rule change will make things worse. Your videos are a great watch . I'm a hgv driver of many years and about to go through the experience and training becoming a driving instructor..
TL;DR but just straddle the lane to protect the pedestrian
@@elliotpollard9083 straddle both lanes of a fast moving fuel carriage way roundabout exit ? That's shows your lack of knowledge
Pedestrians can cross wherever they choose. The dropped kerb needs to be where pedestrians cross, which is right at the junction and not at the end of a detour.
My thoughts are that a roundabout will normally have a faster entry and exit than a turn into a road. On the entry to a roundabout it would be less of a problem because we should be expecting to stop and for the vehicle in front to slow or stop. However, on the exit it is different and speeds exiting will be faster, then it could be dangerous for a vehicle to stop. I think the priority should be to pedestrians when you're entering a roundabout, but to vehicles on the exit. This will be probably impossible, but that's my opinion.
It feels like all the pedestrians and road users around my parts have gone back to the way it used to be.
That's fine until it goes very wrong, then the driver is in a real mess, with both the law and insurance.
Driver beware
@@barrybarry6592I imagine the pedestrian who took a tumble will probably be in a bit more of a pickle
Totally agree about how dangerous this is. Just yesterday, I did not stop to allow pedestrians to cross, as there was a truck behind me, which I considered too close and would have ran into me. As an ex coach driver, if I were to give way for pedestrians I would be very concerned that other vehicles in the right hand lane would not see them, continue past me and hit them as they would have no time to react to people appearing from in front of a large vehicle. (hoping this makes sense🤔)
The issues I have had when giving way to pedestrians is either they don't know the new rules or they don't feel safe enough to cross.
I have ended up on more than one occasion in a polite stand off of "after you" to which I have ended up driving off with them still not having crossed.
Better that than having a collision.
same, i had this situation happen on a lesson. I was waiting for him to cross and he just stared at me, it's infuriating.
@@jayc342009 Not as infuriating as the alternative where you both move and collide.
@@ditch3827 Regardless of what they do i will stop, look and give way.
The point i made is i wish they would just let me know what they intend to do.
@@jayc342009 I've not found it a problem. The new rules work well in my experience.
I actually put this question (informally) to a motorcycle examiner a few weeks back. Consensus between them and the instructor I was with at the time is that in the majority of cases giving way to pedestrians at the exit of a roundabout, on a motorcycle, would present too high a risk - particularly with the current lack of understanding from other road users. The feeling was that they'd generally expect a car to do so, but that a motorcycle they typically wouldn't (for now at least).
Giving way on the approach they were a little more in line with your interpretation, in that traffic could reasonably expect you to stop on the approach before anyway, thus treat it with more caution than you would in a car, but that you would be expected to do so if safe.
I specifically asked the question, because I had given way to allow pedestrians to cross on an exit, and had been "told off" by the instructor I was with (a different one to above) for doing so.
I got rear ended giving way on a roundabout exit. Was only a gentle bump and dashcam showed them at fault but it has made me far more anxious about doing the same in future
Better that than hitting a pedestrian. Hopefully the idiot behind has learned his lesson and will drive correctly in future
Its a daft rule change. Makes it particularly dangerous for motorcycles with a high chance of getting reaer ended. Also it kinda takes responsibility from the pedestrian, leaving their safety solely on other road users. As a pedestrian myself, I am not at all comfortable doing this. As a driver and biker i feel this rule change makes the roads more dangerous for everyone!
I think they should do like other countries in Europe that have had this rule for a long time (e.g. France, Austria, Germany etc.). They should add zebra crossing on every junction where it is expected that u give way to pedestrians. This would remove ambiguity. It’s also not as unrealistic as it sounds however the rule would have needed to be introduced gradually(e.g. in 1 or 2 years) for this to work.
I agree but our gov isnt willing to spend money at all on this.
The law now states that every junction that you are turning into has right of way for pedestrians. There should be no need for a change of infrastructure when literally every single junction has the same rule. The problem isn't infrastructure, the problem is failure of drivers to either observe or obey the law.
@@Joe11924 But it will always be a problem! We r humans and we make mistakes. The only way to reduce the amount of mistakes so to speak and make roads safer is to change the infrastructure to control the traffic in the way u want. It’s similar to the speed limit argument. Limiting a 2x2 lanes at 30 km/h (20 mph) only by putting a signboard isn’t gonna slow ppl down. U have to make lanes narrower (or remove lanes) and add roundabouts, intersections etc. Basically change the infrastructure. It’s the exact same thing with giving way to pedestrians. Not having a zebra crossing may mean that u don’t even notice that there’s a pedestrian crossing! So how can u expect everyone to *consistently* give way?
As a pedestrian I'm never going to step into a roundabout unless I'm absolutely sure the car is coming to a stop which doesn't usually happen until they're basically almost at standstill at which point I've massively disrupted the flow of traffic on that roundabout. But how else could we do, its not worth the risk of your life by going early and just assuming they're going to slow down or stop. If I wait and the car passes and I cross when its clear everyone wins from a safety standpoint but if I wait and the car stops that puts the car in risk of being hit because he's essentially stopped on a roundabout and it also puts me in risk if I've misread his stop as just slowing down to come off the roundabout. Also what if its a two lane exit, just beause the car in lane 1 stopped for me to cross doesn't means cars in lane 2 are going to do the same so that's putting me in danger
I love the people who disagree with being able to manage cars behind you - I'd like to see their driving credentials
How do you manage the driver behind you when they're on their phone and paying no attention? Then tell me how to manage it while riding a motorcycle.
@@loftyintentions1985 you slow over a longer period of time - easy!
@@problemchild1976 yeah, sure.
@@loftyintentions1985 no that's exactly how it works and you are proof of my post - but you know best yeah? I do it all the time!
Plan ahead ffs
As a person whos been run over by a car on a green man, i am not ever trusting anyone but myself when crossing and you cannot control others that's the big problem. It's putting pedestrians in danger especially as msny don't know and a should is very vague why not put in zebra crossing or some sortbof markings to show where you give way to pedestrians. Plus also what when views are obscured on 2 or more lanes Lane. You stop, others in other lanes don't see and someone gets run over and maybe seriously injured. Its opened a real can of worms imo.
Many times i have seen a pedestrian in plenty of time on the ENTRANCE to a roundabout, but the road splits into 2 lanes on the entrance so i can't in good conscience stop and encourage them to cross in case someone behind were to use the other lane, not see the pedestrians as they are behind my car, and hit them
I don't stop at two lane zebra crossings for this exact reason!
Use your rhs mirror and act accordingly, utilizing your horn if necessary.
Highlight of the video are all the bright green cars. I'm only halfway through but already I've seen 3.
1:40 Seat and Opel Mocka combo
8:09 Ford Puma
If the idea is for people to use their cars less and walk more often, then I suppose this rule shall become more prominent and here to stay.
The basis for this 'rule' was in the Highway Code when I took my test in 1978.
Which is great for those living in a metropolis, but forever everyone else the access to reliable public transport or indeed footpaths is poor. The car is essential for transport and little will change that in the foreseeable future.
@@DrRusty5 Many normal sized towns in the UK have atleast a decent bus service. We are not talking about America my friend.
@@Mgameing123 No they don't. No one wants to add an hour to their journey just for the pleasure of taking the bus.
All driving situations are about risk . Exiting a roundabout flow is the overall priority. Stopping unexpectedly for those following ( they are at an angle where the pedestrian can't be seen ) is high risk. Unless the pedestrian steps out , Where the risk then changes, be aware but do not stop and carry on with maintaining the flow.
I have started to not let pedestrians cross in these types of scenarios where no 'normal' crossings exist. Otherwise I am opening myself up to problems if someone goes around me or something and wipes them out. I could not live with myself if that happened. Likewise, I stopped ages ago 'flashing' other users across, if they decided to move in front of me then I will deal with it. Face it, roundabouts, you need eyes all around you and don't need to take on more workload when all a pedestrian needs to is wait for it to be clear for them to cross. Let's put the responsibility back on the pedestrian to look out more for themselves.
Absolutely, well said. I think the new rules are dangerous for pedestrians as they now seem to think that they can cross anywhere they like . They must take responsibility for what they do.
@@deniseoxland151 the new rules aren't dangerous. Drivers not abiding by them are dangerous.
Pedestrians aren’t stupid , we are all pedestrians when we aren’t driving. Common sense dictates that you stop and look before crossing a road , regardless of the rule changes.
@@lmc3307 you are correct but there are so many out there that don’t, making it much more dangerous for pedestrians and drivers. I would be horrified if I hit someone but if someone just walks out in front of you what are you supposed to do ?
@@glenn1534 sorry but I think they are. So many seem to think that all the responsibility is on the driver but pedestrians must take responsibility as well and many don’t
I think cars should have priority as they are in and beyond the pedestrians faster than the pedestrians can cross especially the elderly.
15:27 interesting what Ashley says here, what if I had slowed down and let the pedestrian cross and someone came off the roundabout and smacked into the back of me? Surely they are not forward planning? Basically if everyone took a little more time accidents wouldn't happen
Indeed and that is most of the problem that people only “see” what is directly in front of them without actually seeing what is in front or around them
For example, a couple of days ago we saw a taxi almost rear end another taxi as the one at the back was so focused on getting through the amber light they didn’t look to see the one in front of them had slowed down round the corner.
I have given way to many pedestrians on roundabouts, single lane, dual lane and even triple lane roundabouts without any issues. Yes I have had a couple of toots from behind and customary hand waving but never almost rear ended and the pedestrian has always been safe as I slow gradually and not harsh
How are you finding being out on your own now? (If you don’t mind me asking)
@@smilerbob it's ok, I'm trying to not get too irresponsible.... But still have fun at the same time, it's fine as I am a very safe and considerate driver
@@picklestheswift That is the way to be. Enjoy the driving but safe and sensible at the same time 👍
Id also like to add, When this new practise came in, not much was achually said about it. i saw a few short segements on the news and that was it (apart from your great videos of course). No awaremness or signs anywhere. And because its a highway code, really, only motorists are going to read about it (and most likely newer drivers). I stopped at a crossing at a roundabout a few months ago as inline with the new rule, saw the two people ahead of time, was turning left and i slowed and stopped for them to cross, only to be beeped by a car behind and the predestrians hesitating and waving me on (they crossed afterwards). And i put this down to the teaching of Stop, Look & Listen. Thats what we've all been taught to do, stop, look, listen then cross when clear. my neice whos in primary school is still taught this. so to me its still conflicting. If crossings were more further in then maybe it would work or all become zebra's. but the way it is now, i think its never going to catch on.
What hope is there of implementing these rules when a lot of drivers will not obey speed limits.
Not just ignoring speed limits, but tailgating and dangerously overtaking anyone who's keeping to them...
The best hope is through education and road design. Continuous pavements would help enormously
I didn't think the rule applied to roundabouts and not sure DVSA know what they truly want. Its not listed the same as junctions in the highway code. Personally i use the road markings on their guidance. Most junctions have double dashed lines (give way to traffic on the carriage way) and then the other side has a single dashed. Roundabouts have the single bold dashed line on the approach but leaving the junction there is no markings. Which, in my view, means its a continuation of the road and not a junction.
Have always known it's a stupid, dangerous new rule
It's not a 'new' rule.
You just were too stupid to know the old one.
The rule isn't dangerous, the drivers not following it are.
@@glenn1534 No, it is dangerous. As a motorcyclist, there is absolutely no chance i am giving way to a pedestrian on the exit of a roundabout.
My concern isn't cars going into the back of me, its cars pulling out onto the roundabout from the entrance next to where I'm letting the people cross. Once you've gone past their windscreen they assume you've cleared the roundabout and drive into the side of you, this is why people get rear ended pulling out of roundabouts because the car behind is looking at cars on the roundabout and when they see a gap they'd take, they assume the car Infront has, don't look before moving forward and rear end the car infront.
I think we need to reinforce them by either building continuous pavement or or zebra crossings at junctions. People should be able to read the road and see what they should be doing even if they don't know the rules.
I think on the whole the rules are fine.
As a pedestrian, I am far too cautious that drivers won't give way, especially exiting roundabouts. This means I wait, I am more than happy to wait for a suitable gap in traffic to cross. As a driver, giving way on junctions leads to pedestrians being confused on who goes first, therefore ends with both myself and the pedestrian waiting for an unnecessary length of time, disrupting flow for both of us.
However, at simple road junctions, I have felt slowing early makes it MUCH clearer for pedestrians, and other motorists. Similar to slowing early to make it clear you are giving way to another vehicle. The DVSA however need to do much better.
it doesn't matter what rules they bring in, there will always be those who don't follow them, people still enter yellow box junctions when they shouldn't and that is a must not
Taking a exit from a roundabout with 2 lane exit could be dangerous if you are on the inside lane and give way to pedestrians it's not carved in stone the driver on outside will comply.
I think this is madness. I am courteous to every road user and pedestrian but this seems risky in many ways
As someone who drives for a living, I have a few notes/things I’d like you to cover
Stopping for a pedestrian if there are 2 lanes on the exit to me seems highly dangerous. If I stop in lane 1 in my van, I create a huge blind spot for both the pedestrian being able to see lane 2 and for approaching cars in lane 2 not seeing the pedestrian. I don’t want to cause injury to somebody and for this reason I personally will never stop in this situation unless I am able to stop in the middle of the 2 lanes, blocking both lanes from passing
A lot of the times I stop for a pedestrian at any junction, the pedestrian doesn’t realise why I have stopped or won’t acknowledge my slowing/stopping. I give them a few seconds and if they don’t catch on then they’ve missed their opportunity. The pedestrian obviously doesn’t know about the rules (neither do a lot of drivers apparently) in place and when they wait to cross they usually look anywhere but the road, as they’ve already seen a vehicle approaching they assume it’s going to pass, when the vehicle slows down to let them pass, the pedestrian is still looking in a different direction
I agree with controlling the vehicle behind you and I’m glad that I have this skill in my driving and that I use this on a daily basis subconsciously to slow traffic down before coming to a complete stop, I believe this has saved me many times from being hit from behind. However, if the driver behind is distracted, phone for example as I see all too often, then there’s not much controlling you can do as they’ll continue to drive forward and hit you. I know people who have been hit for this very reason. Too many drivers are distracted when driving as they get too complacent at their ability behind the wheel
Ultimately, I think it’s a good rule to have as mainland Europe has had this rule for years and it works well over there. Our drivers need a lot of education and as you have rightly pointed out, DVLA need to advertise the rule if they want people to actually implement it into their driving habits. I’ve even seen police cars not abiding to this rule so makes me wonder how many people are somehow still oblivious to this rule
I fully support theese rules, not sure who else has tried to cross a busy roundabout on foot but its very scary and can take a very long time.
I think the way the change has been communicated is awful. And more education and enforcement needs to happen
Should also be infrastructure changes.
Just helps make things more noticable for everyone.
It's scary as it was never really designed for you at all. It was designed for cars.
As reminded by ashley himself its to help with flow otherwise the traffic will build up and there be more traffic jams in places. Thats the whole point of these roundabouts they never ever were made for people but due to the ever growing population from towns to city area they over the years have started to mix people with them and it has lead to many people avoid crossing there due to the same points of either taking to long to get across or so scared they rather walk bit more up the road before crossing.
At busy roundabouts / junctions there should be pelicans etc.
At some bigger roundabouts traffic/pelican lights provide visibility (>8ft high?)
I don’t agree that these rule changes are keeping pedestrians OR drivers safe. When on the roundabout as a driver and about to exit, you can’t have your awareness focused on the exit to check for pedestrians AND keeping an awareness to everything else happening on the roundabout at the same time.
Personally, I think that anything which encourages pedestrians to enter a highway because they have right of way is dangerous. I also feel incredibly vulnerable when I stop to give way to them if I am exiting a major road onto a minor road. I get your point about braking harshly causing an issue, but even slowing down early, you are still relying on someone else understanding what you are doing and paying attention.
There are loads of places across the country where there are multiple roundabouts close to each other, so you are potentially creating pedestrianised areas with vehicles in them.
That is of course precisely why the rule was introduced. Previously the only way pedestrians could get the traffic to stop so they could cross was to step out into the traffic. Now that motorist are required to stop when they are waiting, they no longer have and that is much safer.
Virtually all roads in this country are historic pedestrian rights of way (hence rule H2: "Pedestrians may use any part of the road") and so are indeed pedestrianised areas with vehicles in them. That is they way it as always been.
I think there is one aspect people don't realise. It is about people with limited sight, vision. Those are the ones in real danger. The priority is there to make sure they don't accidentally enter the road and get hit by a car as it was not easy for the to see the car. That is why everyone has to think about what they do. It isn't about what I see, but what they see(pedestrians).
That being said, I'm not sure I would feel comfortable crossing two lane road. It would be good to get some perspective from them.
PS: I don't have problem with this rule myself. Is it a burden? Yes, sometimes. We have few exits that are not really suitable for this rule as you can't see well ahead. But as a rule of thumb, you just have to slow down and I think that is the main take from this rule. Don't rush, just take it easy.
Hi Ashley, thankfully this rule does not apply here in Ireland.
We have traffic lights on the exits on some roundabouts.
The bright Red light tells everyone to stop.
However if you are approaching a T junction where you are naturally coming to a halt, if pedestrians are there you can safely usher them across.
I drive a van, and no one is expecting me to stop at the exit of a roundabout to let someone cross.
I don’t want to get hit from behind,
And No it’s not about my ability, it’s about my concern not only for my own safety and the safety of my vehicle.
But also the pedestrian and the motorist behind me.
If I am practically stopped and I know it’s safe to allow people cross.
If this rule is to be applied then it is up to the rule makers to
Put a Zebra crossing with visible amber lights on the exit of roundabouts.
Imaginary zebra crossings are as daft as the rule in its current form.
As a driver it’s not something I think is safe to do. As a pedestrian I would not expect cars to stop and don’t cross if they do. It’s just not safe. I’ll cross when there is a gap and when it’s safe
mr Neal, you say you can handle the people behind you, and sure, in most cases this is absolutely true.
If the one behind you will stay behind you.
But now you exit a round about. The one behind you decides to stay on it for a bit longer.
Another driver came from the opposite side and wants to take it 3 quarters.
There is a huge mount of dirt and bush on the middle of the roundabout which takes away the ability to see all sides. (we have many of em here in the Netherlands)
This car from the other side decides to drive like a maniac and is coming around the roundabout with slipping tires and plows it right in your rear-end because he did not expect you there.
Btw, it doesnt have to be a maniac.
And so, you cant always control what is happening behind you.
If you are the last to join a line of traffic, you may hope that the one who joins next has seen the line of slowly moving or stopped vehicles up ahead.
But we all know this is not always the case, and so they may just plow into you.
Difficult to control in some cases.
If you are to make a pedestrian priority change, you really should make it extra obvious by introducing zebra crossings at those places as well. In The Netherlands, pedestrians have priority at roundabout exits everywhere, and nobody gets confused, because there are zebra crossings at every single roundabout exit. The rule is very simple. No zebra crossing automatically means there's no pedestrian priority.
The only other situation where pedestrians have priority, is with raised continuous sidewalks. This means that traffic taking a turn into a side street will have to reduce speed already to enter the bump of the sidewalk. That means other drivers will already *have* to watch out for turning vehicles, since they're *always* going to slow down when making their turn. The difference between slowing down and stopping for a pedestrian is not as big as continuing and stopping.