If the point of healers is to do as little healing as possible then they need to probably simplify the healing kit and add more depth to the dps side of things.
This. I had someone explain to me "well, healers dps and have a handful of healing spells". Like, dude, I understand that healers HAVE to constantly dps, but 95% of a healer's hotbar is a giant healing toolbox, not the other way around.
This. As a WHM I don’t use half of my healing kit. Not because I don’t know how. Because I don’t need to. Cure II, Regen, Medica II, Lily on a one and lily on a bunch. Haven’t memorized how to spell Aflatus shmatus whateverus. Half the time I don’t even need to use lily healing but I want that blood lily so I can at least pretend I have 5 damaging spells.
@@elgatochurro The problem with this is that healer DPS absolutely matter now when hitting enrage timers in savage. They need to do as much dps as they can and the only way to do that is to heal as little as possible too.
If anything sage feels busy only because it can weave heals well. Last raid tier there were some raids where I was pressing damage buttons 99% of the fight because you can weave enough heals to let you not stop pressing dosis. Plus, once you learn how little you can get away with without burdening your cohealer it's even easier. Basically they need to make a choice, either create content that makes healers actually utilize their kit, or give them more damage options/simple rotations
Sage is the best, most fun healer hands down. "busy" from another perspective is just engaging and to me its super fun. Going back to WHM after maining Sage for the last few months feels like a huge nerf.
@@l-dog I get that, it's the only healer I play regularly, but I don't need to drop more than a handful of damage gcds to heal properly, so it's still 99 percent dosis with the added fun of weaving, but I do get where you're coming from
Sage only feels busy because they somehow decided to make you press 2 buttons instead of 1 to apply your dot. So every time you have to weave a heal after a dot, it’s 3 buttons instead of 2 lmao
To be fair, there is another video I saw recently that addressed a different side of the healer drought in that healers are too attacked for “not being good enough”. The issue they presented was mainly an issue for party finder healers. The video states that for the current raid tier, the dps and even the tanks are not helping in mitigation so during a raid wide, there is too much damage or people just don’t know mechanics and die and blame the healers for it. Many people in the comments added to the issue of dps not owning to mistakes or using feint during some obvious attacks. Some commenters even have issues with maintaining mana during a fight so they bring ethers as their potion on choice. Healers just have it rough man
Yeah it's a big problem of people in PF not knowing what their mitigation buttons are or where to use them. It's not uncommon to run people who straight up don't use them or have them mapped. For tanks it's especially rough because tanks can't smoothbrain invuln all the tbs and actually have to use their mitigation which a lot refuse to for some reason? But what people don't understand is healers are actually kind of overall limited in pure mitigation so they do need the party to help out where they can.
@@24hr-Gaming That last point is kind of why I want ranged phyiscal dps to also have more mitigation buttons. I know BRD, DNC, and MCH has there party wide mitigation, but it is kinda weird (for me at least) to for the “utility” jobs to have only 1 form of mitigation. For me it sucks not being able to use Troubadour more on my BRD or Shield Samba on DNC since helping the whole party gives me a bit more serotonin in fights. (Which is why I main BRD/DNC for those sweet sweet party buffs). Hell, I’ll take a reduced cooldown for more uses
As a healer I agree The number of tanks that don't mitigate properly or dps that don't play the mechanics make my life well interesting. Working to keep them alive definitely keeps me healing, but I can't always heal fast enough and then I get tunnel vision on the hp bars and miss mechanics
@@24hr-Gaming our static had a Blackmage step in as a sub and he didn't even had Addle on his hotbar. As we asked him to pls use it he wondered why he'd should use a skill that reduced his damage
yeah i always try to use my debuff/buff as a dps, but some times i don't understand if what i'm doing it's really having some impact on the fight or not (in savage and extreme ofc)
Also, I think healing in most games gets a bad rep because when your team is doing well your healing is at its worst. A good healer shines brightest when your team is just learning or is struggling.
Unless the game forces people to take damage and adds heal to the main mechanics. MapleStory 2 was a game that this did and it was awesome as a healer to have a heal check time that was crucial.
Jobs don't have to just be complex. They need to be engaging. Dps can have more priority or proc based abilities. 30 button rotations isn't engaging, it's just muscle memory.
that depends from person to person. for some, consistent execution of muscle memory is engaging. Some do have procs instead, mainly DNC and (to lesser degrees) BRD/RDM. that being said, engagement is important. healers are engaging in high damage areas. But that means your reward for mastering healer is less fun, which is as ironic as it is stupid. more engaging damage options would go a very long way.
@@hellfrozenphoenix13 It’s also not even really high damage anymore. At best it’s spike damage which is just as much a tank/DPS mit check as it is a heal check. Makes playing WHM feel like ass because there’s no real use for high healing THROUGHPUT. You get a few instances a tier and the rest are just mit checks. I know Ultima Unreal was a big joke mechs-wise, I won’t argue that, but it was probably the most fun I’ve had in a long while specifically BECAUSE the sheer throughput I had on WHM could save a run.
Honestly if they were to remove buttons and have the gameplay be very priority and proc based it would become too close to wow gameplay in my opinion and I like that ffxiv is different. Like "The Best Bilbo" said i find consistent execution of muscle memory engaging while just pressing a button when it light up (proc) pretty boring.
Yeah, there's totally not a bunch of games, activities, and professions people engage with and even dedicate their whole lives to due to how engaging it is to exercise their muscle memory and perfectly execute a set of optimal motions... right? Really now, why do people playing this game keep insisting that the concept of something being "engaging" is objectively defined by their own entirely subjective personal preferences?
As someone who healed PF a little bit in stormblood and in a static all of shadowbringers and the first tier of endwalker, I LOVE progging on a healer. but as soon as you map out your cooldown usage the role becomes unbearably boring and I would get really tilted when people would mess up or we would wipe because I wasn't getting to do anything new. I swapped to dancer for this tier and even though that class gets memed on for being easy it's still infinitely more fun for me during reclears compared to when i used to heal.
what? why would you get tilted xD i always *beg* for my static to fck up because finally there is something to do besides following the mit sheet and pressing 1/2 :D
Here is my take on healers. It's not 1 problem but several. 1) Shifting Blame. If someone dies, regardless of how, the Healer will be blamed more often than not. It doesn't matter that the person had 16 Vuln Stacks, didn't pop Mitigation, etc. the Healer will be blamed for not keeping them alive. It's more than a little frustrating when you throw the Kitchen Sink at someone to try and keep them alive only for them to die anyways and be blamed for it, despite never once popping Feint/Addle/etc. themselves. It's hard to stay motivated to play healer when people don't want to take responsibility for their own actions and just pick the easy target. 2) Healer Toolkits are largely disjointed messes of oversaturated redundancy. Outside of some minor niche, there's simply too much overlap between skills in any given healer's toolkit that warrants actually being a skill. Afflatus Skills on WHM, as an example could be reduced to a trait that causes Medica and Cure 2 to simply upgrade to their Afflatus form when a Lily is available. Summon Eos and Summon Selene are purely cosmetic options at this point so why hasn't it been turned into a Macro command like the Egi Glams and made into a single button? Undraw is still in the game, for whatever reason. If these skills had a legitimate purpose, or if SE had some plans in the works to make Healer Toolkits more interconnected in some way, I could understand it but after EW did NOTHING to address these skills, I doubt that's the case. On the flip side of things, PvP Healer toolkits are pretty interactive with each other. Seraph Strike turning into Cure 3, Deployment Tactics spreading your DoTs or Shields, etc. allow healers to not only play differently from one another but also allow them to be more engaging since it's not just mindly spamming the same button ad nauseum. 3) Playing as a Healer in anything other than group content is boring AF. Like Chair said, you have all of 2 damage abilities for the entirety of your playing experience, so trying to do the story content, solo instances, tribal quest, etc. as a Healer is akin to watching paint dry in how slow and boring it is. Unless you play SCH and can keep SMN gear up to date to swap between the 2, your solo experience as a healer is the single worst aspect of the game and considering the game locks you out of content until you advance the story, you're just kind of screwed in that regard. The Healer drought is only going to get worse if nothing is done about it.
There's a healer drought? Roulettes is almost nothing but tank needed for almost everything for me, maybe it's datacenter related, but on crystal there's no shortage of healers at all.
@@Akenaph Regular raids there is no problem finding healers neither, if there really was a drought like you said, roulettes would also be affected heavily, you can queue as tank for instaqueue aswell and it's even easier to play as a healer, and yet more people choose healer over tank anyway. There is no shortage of anything in FF14, you're just imagining things, you have 0 proof of that being the case yourself.
based on the comment im gonna assume you dont do any high end content. but the toolkits are fine. they are not at all redundant in savage and especially ultimate. (which is pretty much the only thing that matters) every single spell and skill need to be utilized and they all have their place. if medica and c2 consume lilies then what are you gonna use when you NEED ogcd lilies???
I think healing is a blast but only when everything is going wrong and you've gotta scramble to get the party going. Outside that it's almost relaxing in a way.
Triage is the fun part of healing, but our non-cd spells are so weak compared to hp pools that once I'm out of cooldowns I just end up more frustrated than anything. This heal size change I noticed when I started SHB and it drove me away from healing as my main that xpac, for the first time in any mmo. Gave healing another try in EW and still have this issue. It feels awful to press a single target lily, have it do maybe 20k to a 60k hp player who just took a 60% HP damage mechanic that gave them a vuln, and they can just die to another mechanic (at least the squishier jobs, tanks never care about vulns) if I don't use an ocgd cd on top. And if that's on CD, someone can just die with nothing I can do. Part of why I play healers is I hate avoidable deaths. Like when someone messes up certain mechanics that don't instantly oneshot them, but are clearly meant to kill them because they do 70%+ HP and apply a dot for up to 20% hp a tick, I just get annoyed at the mechanic and say (if I can) "fuck you I'll save them anyways", but sometimes that's just difficult because so much of our kit's power is in CDs.
I agree 100% I loved the challenge of keeping everyone alive when the newest patch dropped and no one knew what was going on. I was even making use of Rescue for a change.
This is what makes healing fun! When things go wrong it's fun and otherwise it's chill. Personally if I wanted to do a complex rote rotation I would play a dps.
@@Reinhard96 Glare and Dia are used on a regular basis, Assize is just weaved in on CD without a modicum of thought, Holy will never be used in a boss fight, and Afflatus Misery is so conditional that you can go through a full boss battle without ever procing it. Let's be real, your damage options and job depth as healer really don't feel much different at 90 than they do at 50, 60, etc
@@Reinhard96 even if I'm really generous with assize, which you'll only use in 45 second intervals, holy doesnt get used outside of trash pulls, and misery pretty much only exists to get back glare damage lost from gcd healing
@@Reinhard96 going by technicalities to give 5 dps buttons, 3 every healer has being the aoe, dot, and basic damage, 1 requires you to gcd heal, and 1 is an ogcd every 45 seconds.
@@blueray222 i mean, if you never use misery under buffs you are just bad :D its the games fault for being designed around speed clears. healers should never ask for more dps buttons because they are... HEALERS. Problem is that even ultimates boil down to "follow the mitigation spreadsheet, press glare on CD, keep dot up". If the fights would be designed more dynamic, healers would not scream for more dmg buttons because they are bored and wanna look at more pretty stuff
My breaking point as a healer since the 2.0 beta in general was Yoshi's remark in a live letter (idk which one, I don't remember), where he said something between the lines of "if healers want hard content do savage and ultimates", you just told me that 99% of the content in the game is not for me or is going to be really boring. At that point I just lost hope for the role in general and started branching to tank / dps. I can see why in general people that don't like simple rotation (healer boring gang) or healing pressure (don't blame me gang) would stop playing (specially on this tier), causing this whole issue. I just had a DPS compliment me when we cleared P6S and even that caught me off-guard (not that they have to tell me that or that I need their approval), but it just felt like fresh air after being blamed for everything on clears / reclears (even when deaths weren't because of me or a healing issue). Keep WHM brainless but give them some oGCD heals (that deal a bit of dps otherwise they won't press it). Give AST the cards effects back (not the TP one, we don't talk about the TP one). Rework Scholar so that they are not only a recitation + adlo bot (I miss you shadowflare). As for Sage idk, give me a reason to do single target shields or something, and remove eukrasia, we removed dark arts on DRK for a reason.
i have pretty much the same idea. if they want healers to be accessible to entry level they can leave whm as it is and add a few ogcd heal and dps buttons. make other healers more interesting dps wise. we can do so much when it comes to job theme and rotation. the only healer that's busy enough rn to be entertaining is ast and even then it's not really that hard if ur group is consistent. but i doubt that SE take away from this entire issue of lacking healers in pf is probably would be "fights are too hard nerf em and make healing easier" and not "make healers have rotation while enforcing other party members to use mit properly"
Yes, If you want HARDER content... play HARDER content... However every expansion demands more out of everyone, especially healers. Healing isnt about a DPS rotations, its about easing mistakes the team amkes. You're simply playing with the wrong mindset... how high have you even healed up to?
@@elgatochurro Team will eventually not make those mistakes and the healer will be back to 1 button spamming. Everyone plays differently so I wont argue about the "wrong mindset". And even if it was, I just don't think it justifies having 90% of the content be 1 button spam for healers. Just seems like bad and or lazy design.
@@noshyre7194 oh no... Efficiency... How terrible... Would a boring 3 sequence of buttons be better that you can fail at? More extra buttons for the same of buttons? Because I know what I love more than spamming glare is the 1 2 3 of my tank rotation. Very engaging I assure you and totally not "lazy".
The kardia heal is so small that yeah I totally agree that sage kardia is equivalent to fairy heals of scholar. And yeah I expected sage would have at least one dps combo move in it's rotation.
@@adognamedsally it does a bit, but so does Fairy heals. hoenstky, i agree they feel a bit similar output wise outside of CDs, and then the fairy just does more area focused, Kardia mire solo focused. i like SGE, but it could use some bonus complexity in areas. for a Battle Medic, its battle options are pretty limited and restrictive.
@@hellfrozenphoenix13 I think the fairy is generally worse than Kardia, because healing anyone other than the tank is not great, unless that heal with save you from using a Whispering Dawn or Indom. Plus, you totally can move Kardia to someone to heal them if you know the tank won't be taking a lot of damage in the near-term. Smart use of Kardia can free up a bunch of CDs. They are similar to SCH, but (and this seems to be an opinion unique to me) they feel different in gameplay. Even though most of their abilities DO the same thing as SCH abilities, SGE feels different and the times when I use those abilities is also different.
kardia does in some places come up and in savage I kinda think about it at points as a subtle help on keeping the tanks alive, but it's absolutely a very minor part of the job and not what you focus the gameplay on, it is reflavoured fairy you can actually control rather than healing whoever it fucking feels like.
@@adognamedsally who cares bro xD Soteria is one of the most boring skills i've ever seen. Sure its great healing but so are the other 20 random healing oGCD's every class is bloated with and are not used in 98% of content in the game
As an AST main, I do feel like I sometimes wish I could offer more in the way of buffs, I am always sad Nocturnal is gone and technically reworked into Neutral Sect but still it was fun playing Nocturnal. I would love AoE dots again I enjoyed those a lot before. As far as DPS dying to a mech... If you get hit it sucks learn from it. I will absolutely try to keep them alive if at all possible but sometimes it's not, I know a particular heal won't be enough so I will shift to a higher priority target. Granted I hate letting my party drop to 50% or less so I usually have something setup just in case. But I absolutely will prioritize a tank(s) over DPS. Unless its someone able to rez, they are second on the list sometimes first depending on the fight.
I wish we had some nuances to healing in ffxiv. Like. SCH and WHM being the "friendly noob ones", the shield and the pure healer that new players start and learn how to play. AST and SGE being the ones you'll need to spend some time to learn... With more buffs (AST) and a more complex dps rotation (SGE). I don't know... Just something i tought about it.
RIP Heavensward Astrologian. That was genuinely the most fun I’ve ever had with a job in ffxiv. Then they also got rid of nocturnal sect. It was unconventional but fun. Having to relearn the job each expansion really makes your previous investment in the job kinda for nothing.
I stopped playing towards the end of Heavensward and was maining Astro. I had no idea what had changed with the job then I came back to FFXIV like a month ago and I couldn't believe how they had massacred my boy...
They have struggled to balance AST since it got introduced. Originally undertuned, then became the meta choice with the balance card buff, then nerfed, then reached a stable state in SB for a while, then got its entire card mechanic reworked and now it’s botched.
As a healer main playing on both western and JP server, I feel that having a boring dmg rotation is a niche problem for very optimised group only, and is only a small problem in the healer drought problem. I feel the 2 biggest issue plaguing the healing community are: 1) Healer Anxiety - When I asked my friends to try healing, this is the biggest reason I get for not wanting to heal. The imbalance in job responsibility pushed most of them away from even trying it out. In most content dying as tank or dps is only a setback and is recoverable, but dying as a healer is almost always a wipe if no one else has rez. This puts a lot of pressure on healers to be near perfect with mechanics or risk wiping the party. 2) Lack of empathy for healers - This is what pushed me away from healing in western servers. I’ve seen so many people taking “healer adjust” very literally and just ignore every single mechanics and expects me to save them. I’ve had 2nd healers who does nothing but DPSing and can’t even be bothered to rez even with swiftcast off cool-down. I’ve saved a whole run being the last man alive, and get no thanks or commendation in the end. Being a healer is a thankless job. I have many problems playing healer in FF14, and having a boring DPS is the least of it.
I'm a whm casual player, and whm is my only lvl 90.. and even I can say I fall more so into your two points here, than being bored with the lack of dps rotation, or bored of not having to constantly heal. Maybe its more about healer anxiety than boredom, as we and the devs know ffxiv is more of a casual player base. I can feel the expectation on healers to carry the party a lot. I was recently in a normal raid where no one was trying to follow mechanics or use mits, The other healer and I were being blamed for wipes, and the party voted abandon. I queue up for the raid again and we clear first try. The point is its not always the healers fault. And the party can always do better to help the healer. If no one knows the mechanics, there are going to be wipes until we all figure them out together. Let's normalize healers managing expectations of the party and evouraging everyone to have a sense of self-responsibility.
But ALSO, AFTER we get everyone's expectations on healers managed, then the devs should absolutely give us some more interesting dps rotation because yeah, it's boring lol. But that's not the first priority imo
Yep this right here. As a WHM main I actually like how easy it is for me to toss in damage. And I've yet to have a perfect party where people properly mitigate every attack and i have to chase the healing. And if I fail they blame me. It's a paranoia thing for me.
Same. I don't mind the 1 button damage, but for me I'll only really like healing trials and raids where there's a co-healer and never current extremes because I struggle enough to stay alive as a dps so I don't want to troll PF as a healer. For me it's definitely the anxiety and worry that if I'm the only healer I have to do everything perfectly otherwise it's basically a guaranteed wipe unless there's a RDM/SUM to res me. It would be nice to have some additional dps options obviously, but it's not why I don't PF as healer
I agree as a healer mean I've been going back and forth if I should hang up my healing code and just focus on being a dancer because of everything you mentioned I started as a healer to be honest because I healed in world of Warcraft and I was used to it and it was fun until you get to the higher levels and you see the tanks in the DPS doing whatever they want and not helping the healer and it just gets tired and after a while. 100% I agree with you that it's a thankless job that's why I'm pretty much going to hang up my healing coat I may do it once in awhile but I'm probably going to focus on dancing because healing is just so stressful right now that it's not even worth it and exhausting mentally.
@@luisdunfordgavira it still kind of sucks in a way that, if you know you want to play Sage for instance, you have to play something else until you unlock it. They should kind of do something about that. I understand they can’t do a whole 1-70 questline just like that or adjust drops but there are generic items that fit all DoM jobs. And you could stipulate that you can only level in like dungeons and with regular quests 🤷♂️
@@Carsu12 this is why we can’t have more damage options honestly. People don’t even heal properly as is. I would be down for this if people did their job
@@cynthiahembree3957 There will always be bad players. That's unavoidable no matter how simple you make a game. At a certain point, trying to babyproof each job in order to compensate for those players just serves to punish the rest of the player base for something they're not responsible for.
Remember T13? When Flatten required like 4 GCD heals? And when Earthshakers required 2-3 GCDs? I think that fight is really engaging as a healer, even now. Perhaps they thought it was too punishing, but I really want them to do more of that. What do you think of all the DoTs in the current tier? I feel like it's them trying to move more in that direction, forcing healers to spend more actions on people who are taking damage.
@@cynthiahembree3957 People don't even use their healing ogcds. It's not a problem of damage bad but somehow these people filter into high end content without knowing what most of their kit does. That's not a problem with the kit, that's a problem with the game never showing the player that they should use their kit. That being said if they're going to make people do 2 min burst they could at least give healers a shiny do dmg in 2 min burst button. Phlegma x2 or a maybe Lord of Crowns is so boring.
This is a good vid. This has pretty much been why I haven't played healer much. I've recently started trying Sage, and I've got to say it's pretty cool, but you still don't have enough damage abilities. Or like he said in the vid if there was more damage going out then it would have you doing more, but it would definitely make it problematic for new players.
I think it would be a lot more interesting if they added ways to dovetail healing rotations and dps rotations. DPS jobs have combos that split off in more than one direction, healing jobs could have the same idea. Let healers alternate between healing combos and dps combos seamlessly, or even blend them together.
Same, I started playing Astrologian at the beginning of Stormblood and learning all the card buffs was fun, I literally printed out a physical vision of them to learn what they do I even main Astrologian in Pvp and now the current version feels like the bootleg version of Astrologian just not as enjoyable as before.
But the main reason no one wants to play healer this savage tier IS because they designed the fights to be way more healing intensive than previous tiers. Everything just hurts SO. DAMN. MUCH. this raid tier. Healer damage rotations have nothing to do with the sudden drop off in healers because P1-4S didn't have this issue. The main frustration for healers this tier is there's a much higher emphasis placed on mitigations that healers have absolutely no control over. Tank forgot to use an extra mitigation and the DPS didn't use Feint for the tank buster? Well I guess the tanks is just gonna die from the bleed DoT. P5S Sonic Shatter with only a Reprisal for mitigation? Good luck surviving past the third raidwide. P7S Light of Life will straight up kill all the non-tanks from 100% HP if not mitigated properly. There's no way healers can even adjust if everyone just gets 1/2 shot without mits (and we haven't even talked about scenarios where healers don't have all their resources because someone died previously due to mechanics)
Exactly this. The people who are suggesting fights to require more healing to make healers “feel more engaged” and “want to play healer more” are very obviously not healer mains. Healing in an unoptimized group is VERY punishing right now. We just don’t want to deal with it.
A big problem is how many people treat healer. If the healer is doing a good job, you don't notice them, but when they're doing poorly, they become prime target. As a tank main, I always thank the healer and they get my commendation, because I know that without them there, I couldn't do my job
Not so- If you pulled the packs in the initial manner as they are shown, the healer would have to do next to nothing. BUT that's boring- if anything people notice their healer when they actually do difficult-ish things such as a full pull with no CD cause you panik/fat fingered the invuln last pull. xD It's not that healers don't want to be challenged, but when the standard is set high, it becomes a barrier for beginner/limited players. That's why the healers are so simplified now, and will probably stay as such to maintain accessibility.
I wish understand this logic. It's okay to critique how someone is playing their job. Obviously we need healers, but just afk healing is not the way and thanking every healers for existing is cringe. There's no barrier to just picking up the class/job lol
@@robertcortes5361 Yeah I mean, I wrote this comment when I first started playing. I don't commend anyone anymore because 90% of the people playing this game don't know how to
I have to agree with the comment of one of Zepla's viewers. I don't really want healers to get "complicated" at all, sure, using only one button is too simple. But i really don't think that making healers mechanically "harder" to use will not make it a more picked class, hell..it would probably kill it all together. I'm going to say something really controversial (probably because i am not in the "loop" with what the community thinks about this): -I think Astrologian was too boring before because you had to remember what all the cards buffs did and use them appropriately. - healers will never be a highly picked class (saying this as an healer main in literally every game) because there is a stigma around them of being the "slave" of the team, of being the "beta player that is scared of doing damage", of being "the guy we have to carry and maybe steal loot from the important components of the team" and this is something that as a main healer i see EVERYWHERE.
I was a healer main in the past (mained WHM since late HW) and until this expansion I pretty much always farmed tomestones as a healer. But the mood and attitude of the community I have found has changed quite a bit recently. Now, I have to be 110% on my game, or the tank that wants to pull wall to wall without using any mitigations is going to blame me when we wipe. Big massive pulls work when everyone does their job well, but in PF, if a DPS takes avoidable damage right before a party-wide damage wave, and the pull is so big that if I miss a single GCD the tank will die, it's a lot of stress and pressure I do not need. I play to have fun, I have a job for stress. :) The "if a big pull fails it's the healer's fault" mentality is what keeps me away from PF as healer most days. Unless I am ready for that level of intensity, I skip PF healing entirely and I'll wait out the queues as DPS.
I think they should reduce the amount of oGCD heals and add more dps skills. Currently healers have far too many redundant heals and not interesting enough dps options.
I main sage and enjoy it for the most part but I have to say...I am extremely disappointed with the direction they took with it. It was sold to us as a "healer that can heal by doing damage" but then made kardia just a glorified regen, and just stole most ability designs from SCH. I wish they had embraced the idea of healing by doing damage a lot more
They can’t. They literally can’t. As soon as that becomes the case, there would be no reason to play anything else. If the Sage’s healing was enough to keep the party alive, then they just are a higher DPS WHM, SCH, or AST.
@@TheSpicyLeg They literally could... Right now no healers really lose dps uptime to heal so saying that being able to heal through doing dmg makes them stronger is just incorrect. It would just mean sage casts less oGCD heals...right now blood lilies literally work on this principle of healing to do damage and are they OP? Think about how cool it would be if there was a way to spread your kardia to all players for 20 seconds, or have your kardia convert healing into a shield for 20 seconds. There are lots of things that could be done. They would do the same damage and healing as now, it wouldn't change at all...
@@drob8220 Oh, my, no. During prog you’re GCD healing quite a bit. Yet even were that not the case, being able to damage and heal simultaneously is still preferable to doing one or the other. Not to mention, the sage wouldn’t have to retarget like other healers do, which while a relatively minor concern, still adds up. There is no way around this problem. Either they have to make the ‘healer’ more like a DPS, or threaten the party more often so as to require healing. The problem with making a healer more like a DPS is why bother to have healers to begin with. As it is now, unless a party members makes a mistake, healing is preplanned. In other words, there is no reactivity. Remember why they removed Protect? People were casting it once at the start, and that’s it. Healing now is cast X at these time intervals.
@@TheSpicyLeg Give the option. I mean cleric stance was literally that option in the past. The problem is the better you get on healer the more boring it gets which is the opposite of everything else in the game. Sage having a dps rotation for heals while mitigating with ogcds with stacks being used for brute force healing like teurochole or the aoe heal would be completely fine. Atleast it’d play different and have its own form of engagement. And considering how sch is the the other shield healer and you’re allowed to push yourself with the balance of using stacks for damage or heals; it’d follow the trend of the shield healer teetering the line of using their resources between healing and more damage. So when you do get good enough you can use your resources less on healing and more on dpsing while keeping the party alive. I believe right now Sage has the lowest dps right now, which is hilarious considering how it was being sold to us. Not everyone would want a dps rotation on a healer either so I doubt no one would play the others because of it. Just balance the damage so they’re not ridiculously higher than the next, but surely make them the strongest.
doesnt help SE has made content extremely easy outside of ex/sav/ult and catered content predominately to casuals instead of making it harder in increments each expansion. If they would just make difficulty harder it would probably work better.
i want 3 types of healers, the regular one, a pure regen healer and a pure barrier healer. also i want a white mage barrier healer without a fairy and spells not locked behind aetherflow. also i sage is just boring
I enjoy healing for the simplicity of the job, the main priority is ofc healing 2nd is whatever damage you can put out but that comes after. I'm more of a one track mind. For this reason Tanking come naturally to me to. The main focus being popping off buff then doing whatever damage. I struggle with dps just because of too many actions positions and different buttons doing different things unlike healer/tank that are clustered skills. I just want a Soul Maker look alike copy 😔 I would love to have dolls or puppets as weapons, the designs can be endless. Then have the skill to turn into a demon as a power burst. Have yet to play anything similar again 😞
@@rares4894 You wanna talk annoying, let's talk about that goddamn loporrit humming lmao It's like those meme videos where it's like "1 hour of silence occasionally broken by _____"
Literally I wish healers had even the most basic of rotations, something half as simple as even warrior, sage and astro are kinda close with having to juggle cards or having to manage the phlegma cooldown (which was way more fun when trick attack was still a raid buff because you could optimise around that). I don't even know if this is optimal but I'm so bored on sage when I dont need to heal I do dot reallignment optimisation like I'm playing bard. I enjoy playing sage in savage it's fun to manage my cooldowns to pump a lot of healing and mitigation it has the fun utility of tanks, but especailly in a fight as painfully slow as p7s, I still feel the weight of dosis spam being boring as hell.
You know to the topic about adding one button combo and need more buttons It’s an easy and unique way to add more to the game Example I’m a Dark Knight and if I combined my 3 button single target combo into one Then for the two other spots we can have a support buff that grants 20% counter of damage taken and maybe even that buffs Damage for you and party by 10% for 10 seconds Like more ways to have more utility for each class why streamlining the simple combos
As someone who did both Mythic Raiding in WoW as a Healer and doing Savage Content now as a WHM in FF14 I must say at the beginning of going into Savage it was shocking to me that every fight feels like "do max dmg , just heal if needed" and this is one thing that still kinda bothers me with the raiding scene in this game. I can´t think of one mechanic in the new Savage Raids that really puts emphasis on the healer class , their utility nor like a real HPS check which is something WoW is still doing so much better (and no flaming here , I quit WoW for good years ago). Neither are there any ways of changing your style of play as a healer with specific talents for specific fights , too. Furthermore , outside of Sage (which is IMO a worse mechanic than Beacons or Glimmer Holy Pala) there isn´t even the possibility to play a kinda like DPS healer who heals through their DMG which though should be the main focus in Savage anyways. As much as I love the game and my WHM , healing in Raid Content is an issue and I just hope some day we will get fights and tiers who are much more centered about the main focus a healer should have : Healing.
What about P7 with the Condensed Aero into Light of Life/Spark of Life combos? That is a healer mechanic right there. Purgation is another big healer mech. All of the tankbusters have DoTs this tier. No matter how much mit I throw at them (like 50%), the DoT still ticks for like 1/4 of my hp pool. Another healer mechanic. Even last tier, Firestorms of Asphodelos, Death's Toll and Curtain Call were huge healer mechanics, even if the other turns were kinda meh.
@@adognamedsally I don´t consider a Tankbuster a healer mechanic especially if those heavily rely on your Tank like in p5s. If the tank does a decent job there is not much I need to do , seen this with good tanks and bad ones Everything that just has to be mitigated neither , counting in Purgation , looking on your Debuff and your group how to position. It´s just basic things you do have to do , nothing fancy. I give you an example of what I would call a healer mechanic. How hard would it be to impliment in p6s for example that you as a healer has to keep an eye out on the debuffs and remove them so people shoot them out or in based on their debuff but would die if they don´t get removed ? Why for HPS checks we don´t have constant ticking damage on the group outside of based setlines for dmg incoming ? If you once see fights , you exactly know the patterns when to heal. That is just not fun and engaging in any way or shape. Furthermore , if we haven´t have the opportunity to rezz at our hearts content , this would put much more emphasis on good healing and using utility more careful either.
Maybe to sum my thoughts up and I do think this is very fitting : If a Game makes you feel bad because you rather push one healing more to be certain to survive a mechanic or having to rezz someone than pressing one more Glare and punishes you with not hitting the enrage timer , it just hasn´t understood the role of a Healer at all.
healing is only boring at end game savage stuff and especially when everyone knows what they're doing, because you'll mostly just spam one button and occasionally some other buttons while healing tank busters and raid wides. In fresh content however, i think it's the scariest role to play since you'll always be on the edge of your seat trying not to die and making sure everyone else doesn't die. That's when i can really appreciate the one button spam lol
Absolutely this. Before people have the ilvl and knowledge to smoothly run content, it makes it a lot more interesting (and stressful lol) keeping the tank/party alive. They've also definitely been working to make the newer savage and EX content require some more active healing overall I think. I don't really have all that much savage experience overall, but EX4 knuckle drum and P5S tankbusters definitely feel a lot harder to heal than most things from last tier.
the mastery of the role reward you with disengaging spam. thats a flaw, and not a small one. and at that stage, all the healers aside from SGE feel the same. those are the real issues. Now, i agree that with fresh content, its more stressful. for like a month, maybe 2, its harder. then people learn and it becomes very plain again, where maximum use comes in the form of refresh dot, spam 1. im not going to ask for them to make the rotations as hard as normal DPS, but they should be engaging. SCH having a second dot, maybe one oGCD not tied to Aetherflow? much more engagement for low damage phases. AST getting a "build up then burst" style skill for spamming 1? fits their management style and breaks up the 1 with occasional 2 at least. SGE has the right ideas, just too long on CD imo. WHM should have dmaage options when building up blood lilly, because having your job gauge be potentially useless feels pretty bad. In other words, the reward for mastery for tanks is being much harder to kill and executing your damage as best as you can. the reward for mastery on DPS is killing things much faster and easier. the Mastery for healers is less healing and more spam. Mastering healers needs a small edge up on the reward side.
I mean how often is there fresh content to enjoy healing in? That only lasts like a week after the patch and then you go back to pressing one button again cause the majority of people know what to do for the next 4 months.
Big disagree, high end content is the only place I enjoy healing because I actually have to use all my tools and think, in normal content I am bored out of my mind because I have a swiss army knife for cuttting butter, even when people are constantly fucking up and taking tons more damage, it only kinda evens out how little damage is actually happening.
Healers are not quitting because it’s boring. Healers are quitting because this savage tier the life of the party is not really in your hands, it’s in the dps hands. Most raid wides kill your entire party if your dps do not press their 1 mitigation button. And when they forget, they blame healers. I’ve had dps die at 99% hp and say “ I wasn’t topped” well, I’m not gonna fucking waste another cooldown or a gcd just to heal that extra 1% when you could have pressed 1 button to reduce that damage by 10%
i would love clear roles for everyone. tanks tank and mitigate damage, and healers heal more instead of damage. now everyone is a dps with a side quest.
I'm perhaps one of the few people who would like to see a change to WHM to make it a bit more in depth - I kind of play it for the aesthetic and wouldn't mind a change to it's playstyle.
The most fun I currently have as a healer is when all the alliances are down in 24 mans and I'm rezzing everyone, and I'm chortling to myself witnessing more upcoming death when a mechanic pops. I remember that astro was intended as a support class. The RnG in dungeon runs made it fun and I had to think on my feet. I'll still play astro, whatever the next iteration will turn out.
Coming from the perspective of someone going through this tier of savage through PF, I feel I have a differing opinion from most in these comments. Most random healers I've run into fall into one of 2 camps... those that dps and barely heal and those that only heal and have horrible dps. This causes many groups to end up situations where either the group damage is too low and enrage isn't met, which could have been bridged by the healer doing at least 4.5k dps instead of 2k by using their ogcds better, or the group wiping due to not enough healing because the whm was busy glaring. My point being that the average healer cannot handle any more complexity in their dps rotation because most healers already can't balance healing and dpsing well. EDIT: I'd also add that these healers also remain completely unaware of this, as the other healer (me in this case) picks up the slack wherever the other is lacking (e.g., sacrificing some dps in order to heal more with gcds, but still maintaining enough dps to clear OR dpsing and holding my heals for emergencies if the other healer is overhealing with gcds and barely dpsing). This is further exacerbated by tools such as ACT and fflogs not being "allowed", further leaving many people ignorant to their actual performance. I'd venture to say that a large portion of people that want more dps complexity, if you were to look at their healing logs, parse grey in healing in savage and their co-healer had to pick up the slack. Outside of savage and below content, sure, I can agree they need to give healers more to do. But for progging savage content, I feel healing is in a good place for the average player.
That's what's irritating about healing. When everything is going perfectly, all I have to do is spam one or two spells, and weave the occasional OGCD. It's extremely boring. It becomes far more engaging when things go wrong, because then I can actually use my full kit. That's honestly a problem, I feel. A class shouldn't be boring more than half the time. I do want an expanded dps rotation for healers, to keep me entertained when busting out all the stops to heal isn't necessary. Also for solo content. Healers are subpar for MSQ and other solo content just because all they have for offensive options are maybe 3-4 spells. Every class should be *fun* for every piece of content in the game, imo. Healers just aren't.
As a healer main I 100% agree with you and I simply don't understand why others don't seem get that. I love the balance of knowing when I healed/mitigated enough and trying to maximize my damage at the same time. This raid tier I also ran into one of those 2 types of other healers you mentioned almost all the time in PF. Getting paired with someone who can truly balance both is really, really rare.
I love your point about the parses. I've found parsing and analysing my logs to make healing much more enjoyable. Sure the dps rotation is still basic af but learning how to optimize my GCD uptime, and minimizing gcd heals by using my ogcd cooldowns adds a decent layer of complexity. Imo, healer is already the most difficult class if you account for the variability you get in prog parties as well
@@TheSuperRatt In savage, you do have the ability to use your full kit. I'm using every single mitigation tool, every healing buff, etc. even when things aren't going poorly. Then, once things do go poorly, you have decisions to make when it comes to using some of your ogcds early OR sacrificing gcds, etc. Only In a well oiled static will yo consistently not necessarily need to use all your tools because everyone is mitigating properly, but outside of that, you're most likely using everything. And if you feel like you're not needing to use everything, then that's most likely because your co-healer is healing way too much, using gcd aoe heals on everything, etc. I'd also argue that as a result of using your entire kit, the cadence of a healer isn't that much different from that of other jobs, at least for me right now as a SGE. Most jobs ultimately boil down to phases of 1-2-3 and then burst phases. During SGE/healer "burst phases" (i.e., when there's a tankbuster + raidwide coming up), you need to weave in your healing buffs, ogcd tank heals, weave in kardia target because of tank swap, keep the tanks alive with ogcds/gcds as needed, mitigate for raidwide, spot heal/rez anyone that messed up. If anything, healers always have the potential for more variation whereas a fight on farm for a dps is LITERALLY the same thing every time no matter what. In addition, they've tended to make a lot of mechanics where the healers are the ones to solve positioning and the dps literally follow marker above the healers' heads. There's plenty for healers to do.
@Sonic Mobian Judging by the fact that you name off spells like aero and stone, I can see that you haven't fully leveled or have access to your full kit yet. Healing before cap is a completely different beast and definitely doesn't feel "good" as you have to make sacrifices to heal in most cases. But at cap, you'll have ogcd heals such as tetra, your lillies which end up dps-neutral, etc. Also, between slidecasting (look it up if you're unsure what that is) and the gcd between dps casts, there's plenty of time to both move and weave in heals without sacrificing damage. In your example, if someone is low I could, for example, go through this decision process of: 1) evaluate if they need a heal NOW and interrupt my cast vs. can it wait for my cast to finish, 2) I can then either weave an ogcd if one is available OR use a gcd such lilly/regen if moving or cure 2 if I don't need to move and have no other options, etc.
I just unlocked astrologian and tbh I was sorta confused by why I would want to largely bother with drawing cards lmao. They’re all like extremely similar damage buffs. I love scholar though. It’s so fun!
Yeah because they used to be very different but people would just pull for the balance (basically what we have now) so from what I understand it was really the illusion of choice
As someone who healed through Savage - yes. It sucks. Your entire purpose is to pop 1-2 oGCD heals whenever the boss does a raidwide or mechanic, and then spam your 1 button damage rotation. It's not hard to heal, since every heal is almost a full heal, and it's not hard to keep a 1 button rotation straight in your mind. There are circumstances where you can use buffs or defensives sure, but they're not as numerous as those of other roles. And with every heal already almost being a full heal, not anywhere near as nessecary either. And that's part of why, to me, healing Extremes was more fun. DPS and tanks could play worse and greed harder, without the mechanic immediately killing them unlike Savage where every wrong mechanic is a 1-shot. And so you had more instances of damage to heal through and it was more engaging. I wish there was additional consistent, low damage, through out a fight. Little hits that add up if you let them, and keep you needing to do something other than spam Glare. And honestly, screw it, but healing potency might need severely reduced. Like, maybe even halved - except on shields. They're already so small most of the time if you don't crit, that to nerf them with everything else would make them pretty worthless. Healers don't need more to 'do,' they just need more reasons to press the buttons they already have. Also I said most of that before watching the reaction; having now seen the reaction, the very least they could do is make those changes for content going forward. Start this 'ten more years' of theirs off right.
They make good points and they showed their pov and information in a clear and easy to understand way. I do agree that jobs should have varying difficulty and that not all jobs NEED to be accessible by everyone to the point they have now. I still love AST but I did like feeling a tad more accomplished because I could play what's considered a "harder job" it at a certain level, and get better as it as I practiced. The homogenization could be turned down a few notices. Give us more flavour - not just coat everything in 1 spice because little jimmy over there thinks 1 button is too much. That said, I still don't like misshapen chair 😅
That shows a healthy maturity on your part, to be able to understand the merits of somebody's argument and even agree with them, even if you clash with them on a personal level, or find them too abrasive like Chair is. Separating personality from argument is becoming a lost art nowadays 😂
sorry, but when i heard that sage is complicated? I cracked up. Spend some time on sage, it is not complex at any stretch - it is basically SCH light. The hardest part of the learning curve for me was learning the skill names and dealing with skills the shared the same colour- blue. I also disagree with "people not liking complex classes"- SOME people don't like them, and people don't like them when they feel that the complexity isn't rewarded, or isn't done well.
As a 6 year main healer in WoW and a lvl 70 SCH, WHM, AST, in FF14 (Im still leveling) I can say that the most fun I have had in my entire healing journey has been in Legion/BFA as a Discipline Priest. This was, without a doubt, the most enjoyable role in any MMO period. The amount of mental gymnastics that you need to do is amazing and extremelly fun to me. I can no longer play a Druid, Chaman or Paladin as they all fell so boring to me now a days in WoW. In FF14 however, being a healer is kind of lackluster. There are literally 2 buttons on SCH for your main rotation. AST has being the most fun yet. I was crushed knowing the unique buffs from the Cards has been reworked into the simple damage buff system we have now. I feel is really difficult for them to make healers to do more things or make them fun (like a disc priest), mostly because the class itself, a Healer, is considered only a companion rater than a protagonist. Maybe its a cultural thing, when even in Anime/Mange we only see healers as this support class that only help you when in need, and can only purify the undead. (mostly for being priest). Also, the fact that you can't change your build too much (like items that do more damage, and not considering penta-melding) is in itself limited for the role of doing more damage, or using damaging spell that actually do too little too late. (sorry for grammar)
exactly my thoughts, legion disc priest was so good. i tried out shadowlands disc priest and tbh it still felt better than ffxiv healers. playing sage in ffxiv was the closest but still not enjoyable enough which is ofc fine since theres plenty people enjoying ffxiv healers and i can dps but theres a reason these discussions happen. i think one big difference that makes ffxiv healers boring is also that the healing intensity is very low unless you are in savage, if u pick healer u probably want to heal and personally all dungeons, araids and trials on normal mode have been too easy
My favorite role to play in an MMO is a healer. And scholar is my favorite job in this game. I absolutely adore the utility and I feel the most prepared if things go wrong to bring the instance back if things go terribly. My issue with healing in this game is that its so damage focused. Like it was said, the most optimal healing is the least healing and that.... is boring. When I heal, I want to heal. Admitting that in this game seems somehow... taboo? God forbid you don't want to spam your single damage spell the entire time and reapply dots. And if you admit that, people waste no time telling you that you should be focusing on DPS when you are not healing, as if somehow that implies you don't.
I don't know how it is in games you play, but lot of games are shifting to more active support because support role is boring as it is. FFXIV does it better than most games but it's still a lot of one button spamming. Probably my favorite healer role in any MMO is FoMarl from PSO1 where you could do god tier healing, really good damage and utility, really good buff and debuff and your weapon skills were so good you could solo content. My other favorite is actually Raganrok Online priest because you had really strong party buffs, a teleport, really strong anti-undead spells and if you really wanted to smack something you got out the battle mace and went battle priest. I think if I had to point out something wrong with FFXIV is that healers are not very flexible. Once you fully optimize your healing rotation there's nothing else to think about. Expert roulette I play on healer for instant queues and half the time I'm falling asleep because the dungeons are boring. But idk what kind of game where Cure 1 spamming is the norm. I'd fall asleep.
Since unavoidable damage in XIV is so infrequent and/or low, you spend a lot of time sitting at max HP. And if you're at max HP, what's the point of using any heals just because you're tired of mashing Broil? SCH and SGE have it a bit better because you can at least pre-apply shields, but it doesn't change the fact that healing requirements to keep everybody alive are so lax in most content in XIV that there's nothing left to do but fall back on damage skills to clear the fight quicker.
The old AST cards were fun. Of course the people that constantly fished for balance screamed the loudest so now we're stuck with fishing for seals instead of balance. I miss the strategy of the old cards, it made it far more interesting than try to get three different seals.
Just consider that misshapen chair is full of his own shit. "Healing is boring" signed by a dps player. Riveting. Personally I think the current savage tier is great for healing compared to the previous one as you do have more to do. But as others have said it also relies on other people in the party remembering that their party mitigation tools exist (mainly for the feint/addle users out there) since an extra 10% mit from them is equivalent to say a sacred soil which in turn would make the shielding more effective. But yeah healing is pretty much an optimization job where you recognize how much you need and can get away with. But also since your gameplay loop is dependent on the performance of your party it can be the one with the most variance as well if we're not talking ideals. Blind progging new extremes or doing new alliance raids where everyone eats shit is definitly a fun part of it for instance. As for lack of healers, maybe it's just people don't want the responsibility or the aformentioned mitigation situation as well as if it's PF you might be saddled with a glare mage doing their best 0% grey healing parse run where they forget regens even exist.
He's played like every class lmao he's on FF logs for all to see. Doesn't have much in current for healers, but definitely some in shb and sb, probably more before then. Probably doesn't heal as much in savage anymore because he thinks it's boring.
Most people who complain about healer classes being boring are always DPS mains. Meanwhile every healer main I've run into are still having fun, despite knowing the cons.
@@Miketation have you considered the possibility that those DPS mains used to be healer mains, and are now DPS mains because of the state of the healing role? and while im just one voice in a sea of whining bastards, i'm a healer main who is pretty fed up with how healing is seemingly turning into the 'bike with unremovable training wheels' role, so much so that i just cap tomes, clear the raid, log out. Chair might be abrasive with the way he worded his points, but people dont usually go making videos about things like this unless it's because they love it and want to see it improve. sure it's entirely possible he decided to make a video just to bitch about healing being shit, juuuust to farm the rageclicks for ad revenue, but i think it's more likely because it's a topic atm in the community, and it needs addressing because the lack of healers in PF is getting more and more apparent, and at this rate if nothing changes, PF will just outright die because noone's wanting to fill the role. FWIW i mostly agree with Chair, we cant add more healing required because casuals wont be able to keep up and it'd mean 10 years of content needs to be rebalanced, much easier to just add complexity to the DPS side of healers. What i dont agree with him on is leaving WHM as the 'glue eater' of the role, it'd paint a target on that job's back as 'this is the class the shitters play, kick on sight' like stormblood WHM but way way worse. ideally i'd rather see all of the healers get more complexity to their DPS rotation, and if the casuals dont want to engage with that complexity, then they dont have to, because EX roulette doesnt have an enrage timer. If they feel like 'oh im only competent enough to press 1 button for my dps rotation' then they can still press that 1 button and contribute 'some damage', heck if the dev team wanted they could make 'glare spam' be 80 or even 90% of the damage of doing the 'fully optimised rotation' with potency balancing. EG, if they were to make Glare 300 potency, and Dia 50 on cast + 30 potency per tick for 30s, that totals 350. 50 whole potency gain over 30s, so in a 10min fight you've gained 1000 potency, just over 3 whole Glares. pretty irrelevant when it comes to meeting the dps check, and so low that it's more likely you die to 'lmao crit variance' than missing those Dia's, but doing that change would mean people who want to optimise have something to optimise (keeping dot up, knowing when it's worth it to refresh vs not, etc) and the 'i dont know how to press more than 1 button' type healers can just ungabunga spam 1. i'm NOT suggesting that we actually reduce Dia and such down to this level, this is an example to show that if they added 2 or 3 more buttons, it's entirely possible to make them be balanced 'to reward the optimizers, and be mostly ignoreable by the shitters'. eg bring back fluid aura and make it a 15sec CD GCD with a potency of 330 compared to glare's 310, that is a total difference of 80 potency per minute for people to optimise.
not to take away from sage but I've thought it would be cool to have a primary healing target which would usually be the tank, and maybe instead of healing as you do damage have branching combos or something where you can either do a heal or a damage spell and the heal automatically goes to your set primary healing target, so you can be doing a damage rotation and then seamlessly go for your healing move when needed without having to mess around with targeting, so it's less cumbersome transitioning from dealing damage to healing it's all woven into the same combo unless some more extensive healing is needed
You can already do this using macros, either the macro will cast the heal directly on your target's target, say the boss is targeting your tanks so thats the t of your t, or by assigning parts slot, so the macro will whoever is number 2 on your party list, say theain tank is second om your party list, so the heal will go to them, even if you're already targeting the boss
@@AdachYanas This, or what I'm using is which targets whoever your mouse is currently hovering over (in party list or actual character model, both work). So you can always spot heal any party member without having to switch targets.
I mean... I use focus target for this just fine. There's a dedicated keybind for targeting your focus target, so just doing that and tabbing back to the boss is really seamless.
What got me to play Astrologian is the support style of healing it was: the point was to accurately buff the team while maintaining their health high enough, and also keeping consistent DPS. When we lost the Stormblood carding system (effects as well as the royal road action, and the way Celestial Opposition worked to expand buff times if I recall well), I felt robbed from what I enjoyed the most. I would love them to reintroduce this system, or one close to it. I know they removed it because they wanted to get rid of the randomness of the job, and yes I got angry a few times when I got three sun seals in a row, even with redraws, but that's the charm of the job. Those who don't like the random cards have already 3 other jobs to choose from, with very distinct ways of healing/shielding.
I think "auto combo" would be a bad addition to the game if applyed with general stroke, but a good addition to some classes like BLM's "Ley Lines" and "In Between the Lines" another Job that would benefit from an auto combo feature would be SMN, it has an underdeveloped kit and lot of buttons that do the same thing or get locked out until certain conditions are met having the auto combo would help the class out in the future when more spells are added.
I have been healing in mmos for 20 years, the happy medium I have found is either doing damage to heal ( like a Disc priest in wow), or a more skilled level of game play taking your own health to heal others. (Blood healer in The Secret World.) Just being a healer with no dps, or healing little and dps alot, seems to be the extremes of the same "boring" result.
For the past two expansions with how healers have been changed many players have fell off of healing, some new players came into the role including a lot of more casual players attracted to the simpler playstyle. But I think the population has been trending negatively so when they introduce more intensive damage in raids (things that casual players aren't as good at or they're just not even doing raids just dungeons/NMs) and that requires more healing AND mitigation from the rest of the party but DPS don't even have feint on their bars. I know I stopped maining healer in shadowbringers and Eden did not justify the bloated healing kits at all for the incoming damage, in PF this tier there are a ton of instances where only the healers are providing mitigation for raidwides which has to be frustrating as hell
And now imagine being a healer where your co-healer decides to focus on damage. Not mitigating and healing as little as possible. And you STILL out damage them while also having to healer more because they don't. It would actually be better for there to a class that just passively heals everyone in the party instead of having someone who refuses to heal. Just so those players have something to play and not hold back the party. It can be the most boring thing ever, have the job have a single spell on the hotbar that does damage and everything else is a passive skill that helps the rest of your team survive
Sage main here, the only time i have fun is saving an awful team from the brink of a wipe. that's crazy fun, but most of the time i'm just spamming my aoe attack while throwing shields on the tank sometimes
I really miss 1st gen Astro. I loved the chaos felt like I was predicting my teammates future. Oh thank you need extra defense take this tree card. Dragoon you’re about to go crazy here’s so extra dmg.
I totally agree that the healing players in ff tend to enjoy dpsing more than "staring at health bars", so the style of healing in this game wont change drastically- so it just seems like the problem is that they want a more complex dps rotation whilst healing? am i interpretting this all right?
Resto druids in WoW are such well designed classes, mechanically. Their kit interacts with itself in so many ways, they are truly a HoT based healer and by comparison it makes healer kits in 14 look very lazy. But 14 chose a direction to go in with the design of the game and, a few years ago, went pedal to the metal in that direction and now it is far too late to go back. The benefit of what they have now is that balance is child's play. When was the last time there was a healing spell being tuned in the patch notes? Genuinely curious.
Cleric stance needs to come back. For harder content just stick to healing for easier content put on cleric stance and burn thru everything. Of course you get those who complain about whether or not the healer should have cleric on or not but...that is their problem. The dps and tanks have been ignoring mechanics for ages let healers have their cleric stance.
There should be a healer job that converts overhealing into damage on the enemy which the target is targeting. It'd be a unique playstyle. A melee healer would be fun too.
I mostly play pure healer both whm/ast with some sge on the side. I enjoy healing in general in ffxiv with most of my focus on savage raids. The process from progging to optimizing the fight is so much fun including coordination with your cohealer. A big however, although I love it in a static setting currently in pf it is not fun for me. The main reasons are that 1) mitigations are lacking 2) people tend to blame the healer although its not their fault said person(s) died 3) expecting healers to be near perfect at the fight and just following them around rather than doing the mechanics themselves, for example I didn't want the party to mark me in a pf p6s party simply because I have a hard time seeing my number for the pathogenic cells mechanic with the marker in the way. I kindly explained why and got kicked. In those scenarios being a healer is so ungrateful and you get the feeling of unrealistic expectations that you alone shall carry the slack of others and if you don't you get flamed which all in all is not a good feeling. And this tier in perticular compared to asphodelos has a higher emphasis on healing since raid wides hit very hard and you also have bleeds/poison attached to tbs and certain raid wides that if left unmitigated will just spell disaster. Who is the usual suspect to point fingers at if people die? You guessed it, the healers. I think this frustration has resulted in lack of healers more so than the jobs itself not being interesting enough. But please for the love of jebus do not make healing checks or damage intake easier to handle, healingwise this tier was a big step in the right direction.
I totally agree with this video. As a healer main from various MMOs (WoW, SWTOR, Rift, And now ff14), 14s is the only one where i feel that the more optimized you get, the worse it feels because your time is spent doing damage and the damage portion is just...not...engaging. you dont need to add a ton of options, just enough to maje it feel anlittle better and flavor the class more. SCH just needs a second DoT (Miasma would work) and an oGCD damage ability not tied to Aetherflow.. WHM can have its lilly system allow an offensive option for building the Blood Lilly so it doesnt feel like "ima spend this, but it feels shit to" AST is able to have a skill that "stacks" and then releases when you spam, leaning into their management playstyle. SGE just needs some lower CDs on their damage abilities and maybe a CD to do a "kardia"-like effect to the party. i do think Misshapen may be too tilted, but he isn't wrong st the core of his point. If they want healers to damage often, make that side engaging. i love healing myself and i find it fun.....when people are fucking up and I have stuff to do. if the run is too smooth, i do start to check out.
6.2 has been a FANTASTIC patch for healing. The EX’s consistent damage and frantic movement makes it really hard to rest on your laurels and the rework of tankbusters in Savage means that I’ve had to actually pay attention to my tanks in a way I haven’t had to for some time. I don’t need a more robust damage rotation if the healing itself feels like I’m pushing my kit to its limit.
Ikr! I've been playing tank and it's amazing to me that I can mit a TB with ~50% mit and the DoT still nearly kills me every tick. I really want to do this tier on healer after playing Tank in it.
the issue is that doesnt affect the other content, and 14s uniquely powerful in that area. Old raids and content doesnt become obsolete, so design has to matter there as wellm I like that the new raids are engaging healer wise, but if i go back to, as a random example, a synced Coils of Bahamut? the design issues show.
See that's the issue. The fight design you spoke of have nothing to do with healing. You learn the fight and know where to heal and shield. Damage is predictable. The hand rarely changes anything up. Raid wide damage or tank busters are completely predictable meaning you'll be healing for those little bursts and then pressing your one dps button for the other 90% of the fight.
I miss old Ast everyday 😔. This video made really good points and the reality made me sad. I enjoyed healing in Wildstar it was challenging but rewarding imo.
I've been so used to the toxic LFD in WoW that I never wanted to learn how to heal or tank. I didn't want the one to get yelled at or kicked from the party. FFXIV, you let people know you're new to healing and they actually are helpful. I'm still nervous to heal in FFXIV but not as much as when I played WoW. So yeah, if healing is "boring" or there is nothing to do, that's what I'm here for while I'm learning. Anxiety is a bitch.
I tried to play FFXIV as a long term 14 year wow player who always mained a healer and knew that I wanted to play a healer. FFXIV had a lot of incentives that almost motivated to slog through miles of drying paint. It had drop dead gorgeous visuals. I really like how jobs were divided up. Over the course of a month of leveling was incredibly boring. There was no incentive to play with other players out in the world. If I did nothing but dungeons I could play a tank, I could play a dps or I could play a role that is dps the majority of the time and a healer a minority of the time. So if I want to play as someone who's duties are restore health the vast majority of the time, then there is no role availble for me to do. If I wanted to deal damage, I would level a damage dealer. The healer fantasy has been forsaken in FFXIV. If there is no healing atm? Damage doen't have to be the only alternative choice. Mmos used to have a hidden 4th role called support that would give strong utility abilities, like increased movement, reduced threat/enminty, temporary immunity to slows. It doesn't have to be just healing OR damage. Also how hard would it really be to have any boss get a buff that pulses .01% of it's health as damage per second towards the raid. Why the FFXIV devs wo't do that is lost on me. This is why as an actual healer enthusiast of 14 years who wanted to pIay a healer in FFXIV choose to not continue playing FFXIV. TLDR: Healing in FFXIV is not available most of the time and overall not fun.
yeah me too, i started to hate healing because i litterally fall asleep everytime, at least with sage it's LESS boring (but still boring), and this is very frustrating because i love healer classes/jobs in every game
@@slimfastsubaru2043 all your cards do the same thing and seals only affect astrodyne. 5% damage on the lowest dps in the game is pretty negligible if dps checks are not on the table most jobs in this game, regardless of role, have become a snoozefest and boss design is the only thing keeping half the raiders subbed.
Inqicar in rift was great as a healer/dps hybrid(which was actually a mix of dps/tank but wound up being pretty solid dps and great group heals), and later on defiler was pretty interesting too, decent dps and privided the best mitigation and strong burst single target heals) defiler kinda became an issue though in the way it provided huge mitigation for select players and kinda made it required and balanced around.
Second comment: WoW healing seems ok in terms of variety, Shaman has aoe healing, Druid has HoT healing, Priest is raw healing, - comparatively AST is HoT heavy (potentially), but it’s always: Pure heal “cure/benefic 2”, sch/sage “resource heal”
It kind of depends on your group composition. Obviously, healing a DRK is going to be much more challenging and stress inducing than a WAR, especially if you are a shield healer like SGE and need to use resources to use big heals. Constantly reapplying shields doesn’t always work out. It also depends on how high the groups dps is. If you group spends 3 minutes per pack, you are going to run out of resources and the tank will run out of mitigation, which will make healing more difficult. Even the boss/dungeon has an effect. Tower of Zot, for example, is much more difficult to heal in my experience than say Tower of Babil.
Give WHM more DPS options. Quake and Tornado would be badass and appropriate additions. Bring back SCH's DoT mage identity, maybe even steal from old SMN, it's not using them anymore. Bring back an evolved version of AST's old Cards, because there IS a resolution for Balance fishing, adapt Minor Arcana to use "dud" cards. Bring back Royal Road too, it's better than Divination. Bring SGE up to the standard of the other healers. I know we're not DPS jobs, but if you're going to throw content at us where we're DPSing the vast majority of the time (which is like 70% DPS, 30% healing in my experience), give us /something/. Ideally I want to heal and will hope that future content has more healing mechanics to make the experience engaging, but a better DPS set will resolve this for all existing content. Bonus: it won't make the jobs harder for anybody new to them because DPS is optional for the vast majority of content and the devs already have strict measures about harassing people for how they play and heck, even if they DPS badly, hardly anybody will complain, I think the main thing that would cause complaint is if they healer is just twiddling their thumbs or forgets to heal. DPS skills were scapegoated for "healers not healing" like Cleric Stance was in 2.0 but now DPSing on a healer is smooth brain and if anything "healers forgetting to heal" is worse than it was, maybe it's time to accept that in a game where your performance is measured by your party's overall DPS, all roles will be trying to maximise their DPS and it means we get healers who forget to heal, this is a drawback in the game's core design and not something you'll fix, but you can alleviate it. HECK, if anything having a little more complexity would put them a little more on their toes to pay attention. I've had a few times where even I, an attentive and decent enough healer with years of maining a healer, have gone "whoops, I forgot I was a healer for a second there" as has my regular co-healer, which I didn't used to do when the state of healing was better, because it's so easy to tunnel vision when you're repeatedly pressing the same button over and over and over and over and over and over. And heck, better learning tools might help your fledgling and unconfident healers too, like a Hall of the Apprentice and a Dungeon Log to practice what you learn in a real party. Plus we have better NPC AI to provide a better experience for something like a Hall of the Apprentice. It's no longer 2.0 where we have a natural progression that teaches people their role, especially say, somebody who's not a healer picks up SGE at 70 or uses a jump potion. So this is another more practical way of aiding the problem (especially if there's an incentive for completion and prompt for people who pick up a high level job or use a jump potion). And then people can be rewarded for getting good at healing, because then they'll have more to do once they have and there's a higher skill ceiling to reach for, instead of being punished with monotony and boredom.
I got so sad when I saw they removed nocturnal sect, I felt like Astrologian however sort of gimped a version it was, at least provided me with a "varied" playstyle depending on what healer I ended up queued with. I could fill whichever was needed, it felt if not optimal, at least useful and fun.
the problem with SGE vs SCH is that your healing with Kardia does not scale with your damage output. DOTs and AOEs do not have any more healing output. You simply just heal a little bit every time you cast a spell, not every time the spell deals damage.
Coming from WoW, I don't like how much DPS you need to do as a healer in FFXIV. Like I choose the role because I wanted to heal and if wanted to do damage, i'd be a dps.
Healer becomes more of a healer the later you go, or if you want ask the tank to pull more packs in earlier dungeons so you have no choice but to spam all the heals
This is how I feel about it. I like "whack a mole extreme" as a healer, where I'm constantly engaged with my teams health bars during a fight. Not to say the FF design is "wrong", but it's just "dps with a couple healing spells" which isn't for me
It's more to do with damage being predictable and almost entirely managed by preplanned oGCD usage unless someone screws up. The better your groups, the most of a bore it is.
@Sonic Mobian I mean, good for you, but that doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. Or rather, was created in Shadowbringers. Prior to that, those who wanted a basic healer had WHM, and everyone who wanted something more had AST and SCH. Now everyone's on a 1 button rotation and AST's card system is as thoughtless as anything else, and the amount of healing required in content doesn't make up for that exchange unless one of the tanks or dps is drunk. I haven't found healing this dull since RO, but even that had more impactful utility options.
One big difference is people have to level healers on their own here, whereas in wow every healer spec has a DPS spec to level and do solo content with.
I'd really like to see more buff skills like Astro in the past. I intended to main Sage this expansion, and while it's fun when trying new stuff or in dungeons with a new group, the lack of variety forced me back to Ninja which I find way more interesting when things are going well. If they gave healers buff skills to individual party members it'd still feel similar to healing skills (fits the role of healer) and doesn't require targeting mobs but could add some much needed variety
I've been a WHM main since the beginning, so I've seen all the positives and negatives that have come with the Job. Personally I think for the average player that wants to Heal its the most satisfying because you actively get to see all your big heals topping off the party. As far as "Healing" goes in general, I do wish there was a bit more to do as a "Support" not DPS. I play Healer to be a Support Role. I don't like it that people believe that you should only play by doing the bare minimum healing possible and everything else should go into DPS. I don't necessarily need there to be constant Healing to have fun on my Job since a big part of the Role is to manage the fight as a whole, anticipate what's coming, and make-up for mistakes that happen. As a Healer I have always had the mindset of extending the encounter is far more important than my own DPS. This tunnel vision people get that you should only throw out OCD's, never hard cast or top people off makes no sense to me. (Why wipe when you can keep going?) Completing the encounter is my goal, not weaving in a couple more Glare's at the expense of someone dying. If there is to be a solution outside of completely revamping encounters, I would like to add in more periodical Buffing to my party and Debuffing to Bosses. The Debuffing could be weaved into a DPS rotation and the buffing should be timed with DPS bursts and so on. The good thing about this is the extra DPS or Mitigation added can be reflected in a Bosses or mobs HP or damage output without having to change how encounters work currently in FFXIV. So a "good" Healer will need to manage the group, keep uptime on "new" buffs/debuffs, and when that is all done get in some dps.
This. I love this. I’ve wanted a combo system for healers, like if you do this attack into this attack you’ll gain an X heal buff or you’ll grant an X shield. This gives healers more options and combos but rewards them with a support buff for doing said combos WHILE still doing damage to the boss (as we’re required to do anyways)
I'm not PERFECTLY aligned with you here, but I think I agree with most of this. Making everything about DPS in this game is what's killing this game and healing in it, not the other way around. But my personal view is we have 4 healers, why not do like tanks do and have 4 actual variations of them? There's no reason, with 4 healing Jobs, that they all have essentially the same DPS rotation. Like the guy in the video said, we can leave WHM as it is today, but why do the other three have a carbon copy of their DPS kit when no other role (Tanks, Melee, Ranged, Casters) has all members with essentially the same DPS rotation...? We could actually please everyone at once just flexing the healers we already have.
Big same on missing old AST. It was my favorite healer through Stormblood. I mostly play WHM now for the Holy stun utility and array of "oh crap" buttons.
As a casual healer, I like Astrologian and Sage. I get very confused playing Scholar, like I don't even know what half the spells do they have so many and with so many descriptions lol. Leveling or just dpsing is kinda boring because you have like 3 spells in total, In WoW you at least have most of the base spells between specs and some unique ones for damage and healing
the other najor thing is in WoW, healing was frequently needed and high damage intake is common, making healing required. i dont mind 14s focus in healer DPs, but i think that should come with a focus on making the damage part more fun. it wouldn't take a lot of additions to do it, as SCH can get a second dot to manage and possibly an OGCD not attached to Aetherflow. Astro can have a couple burst skills. WHM could have a high damage hit and some way to build it up. SGE is the closest to feel good, with CDs needing an adjustment if anything. in short: if you are going to focus on healer damage, then its needed to make it at least a little interactive. the 1 spam, 1 dot thing isnt fun and thisbis coming from a healer main. i like sage because i can get into its damage sometimes at least
How on earth does scholar confuse you but not sage? Their toolkits are practically identical. There I think six skills between the two that don’t have direct equivalents
@@RaddyC they are indentical, but not the same. Their use cases and how you manage them are different. For example, pet placement can make a huge difference for SCH, something SGe doesnt have ti do. SGE gains a steadiky regen resource whike SCH gets theirs in a burst. SCH shields tend to do more, but their direct healing is reliant on their Aetherflow in most cases. SGE is easier SCH, tbh, in terms if what they want to do. SCH has fringe things to learn and misusing some skills can be punishing, such as ths fairy munch, which can lead to confusion at first. That being said, i do think their similarities are a little too close together. I wouldn't mind them being more experiemental with it, but indont see it happening. But i digress, the main point is, despite similarities, SCH and SGE still play very differently.
I love healing in MMOs, it's my favourite way to play by far, a role most people hate because it involves covering other people's mistakes, however I love being the savior. However I barely heal in FFXIV. Even the damage I do is mostly 1 button. Toss an OGCD on someone that got hit and keep spamming glare/broil etc. Healers have a big toolkits and it's almost never used. It's incredibly, mind numbingly boring. Even crappy MMOs let healers do more.
Healing isn't boring (imo), but I absolutely felt un-needed as a healer when tanks could just cheese everything. Healing is a very delicate balance and it is HARD when tanks and DPS don't mit, and the more we have to push out heals the less we can DPS. I bring ethers for prog because I want to enable my team to live long enough to see mechs and learn them, and once we're smooth I can swap to DPS pots. I will say, as much as it forces me to focus more on when I'm healing and where I'm DPSing, the mix of mechanics in this tier are perfect for forcing everyone to do their role and PARTICIPATE in the team's success. It's absolutely brilliant, and fun to boot! I might be crying in pain but I'm enjoying every moment haha. Side note; I don't even wanna watch the referenced video or this one... I am that tired of all the vitriol around healing that's been happening lately. But I also come from the perspective of a tested and at least decent healer. There are ABSOLUTELY shit healers out there. I hate PUGing a shield healer because it's actually 50/50 on if I get someone who knows how to heal.
I started with playing Scholar. I super agree. Now for most activities I'd rather wait in DPS queues as Summoner than play healer. Especially because it's boring AND it comes with additional responsibility. Easier and more fun to just DPS
I really enjoy scholar still. The only annoyance is when I galvanize a big ass shield and then a sage overrides it with a tiny dick shield. Makes me sad every time. And it's not that we're doing it at the same time majority of the time. I think it's mostly sages not realizing they're gonna override it, cause you'd think the better shield would stay. But no.. Unless something has changed recently, I've been gone for about a month XD That's my only gripe so far. Though I don't do hard content with healer.
I would like to think the entire healing community is just humble bragging about wanting to do more healing... but I've come to terms with the fact that I'm probably just bad XD
I play all healing classes and I started with Sch and still play it despite sage. I think self healing on tanks is killing healers. It feels like I’m useless sometimes
I don't think the solution to healing being boring is to just add more DPS buttons. Honestly, that just seems baffling to me as a suggestion. Why would I want to play a healer if the optimal play is to... Not heal? Like, if I wanna be the frontman of the party and control the aggro, I play a tank, right? And if I want a complex DPS rotation and to just do demej, I play a goddamn DPS. So if I want to HEAL... I think EX4 was a good showcase of how to fix this problem: Simply add more difficult and constant heal checks that actually give you a reason to use every damn last bit of healing you got. Every healer I've played with that I asked what they think of that fight say that they love it because it forces them to heal the party a shitton, since the boss just keeps trying to beat your head in with unavoidable damage. Just change the fight design a little bit and see how it goes, I say. Welcome change of pace at any rate.
I dived into healing because I liked how offensive oriented they were in SB. Then when they took away so many damage options in ShB (rip miasma II), healing became nothing but a chore. I even leveled a healer just to make queue times get better.
Auto combo would also prevent gnb from being able to make the decision of; do I keep doing full rotation to cartridges and rush the last bit of health on the enemy, or do I switch to just doing the first two of my combo for the immaculate health Regen because the healer just bit it. I'm sure there are other examples of places auto combo could be bad. But currently gnb is the role I've put the most time into on difficult content.
This! Used to play smn before endwalker because I loved the DoT management and the rotation. I found it fun. Now? I won’t touch it unless I want to take a nap.
@@tranquilelm5809 There was a similar aspect to Scholar before 5.0 too, with plenty of heals to spare as well as the fairy. Anyway, I understand the previous Summoner wasn't everyone's cup of tea especially with janky pet AI but the way it played more like a priority system was very charming and refreshing in the land of 1-2-3s.
@@Rewwgh absolutely agree. I used to play scholar back before heavensward and although i don’t remember much about how it played I do remember I really enjoyed having shadowflare
If the point of healers is to do as little healing as possible then they need to probably simplify the healing kit and add more depth to the dps side of things.
This. I had someone explain to me "well, healers dps and have a handful of healing spells".
Like, dude, I understand that healers HAVE to constantly dps, but 95% of a healer's hotbar is a giant healing toolbox, not the other way around.
This. As a WHM I don’t use half of my healing kit. Not because I don’t know how. Because I don’t need to. Cure II, Regen, Medica II, Lily on a one and lily on a bunch. Haven’t memorized how to spell Aflatus shmatus whateverus. Half the time I don’t even need to use lily healing but I want that blood lily so I can at least pretend I have 5 damaging spells.
No, the point of healers is to heal and smooth over runs. Optimized healing is where you cut back on healing
@@elgatochurro The problem with this is that healer DPS absolutely matter now when hitting enrage timers in savage. They need to do as much dps as they can and the only way to do that is to heal as little as possible too.
If anything sage feels busy only because it can weave heals well. Last raid tier there were some raids where I was pressing damage buttons 99% of the fight because you can weave enough heals to let you not stop pressing dosis. Plus, once you learn how little you can get away with without burdening your cohealer it's even easier. Basically they need to make a choice, either create content that makes healers actually utilize their kit, or give them more damage options/simple rotations
Sage is the best, most fun healer hands down. "busy" from another perspective is just engaging and to me its super fun. Going back to WHM after maining Sage for the last few months feels like a huge nerf.
@@l-dog I get that, it's the only healer I play regularly, but I don't need to drop more than a handful of damage gcds to heal properly, so it's still 99 percent dosis with the added fun of weaving, but I do get where you're coming from
Sage only feels busy because they somehow decided to make you press 2 buttons instead of 1 to apply your dot. So every time you have to weave a heal after a dot, it’s 3 buttons instead of 2 lmao
@@davidbai3543 That's just incorrect and sounds like you haven't played the class beyond it's level 70.
Sage cannot global heal very well in times where it needs it
I was casually streaming the Aglaia to my friends as a healer and they were laughing about how I was pressing one button 90% of the time lol
Yeah, well, most jobs aren't much more interesting than that in casual content.
@@thalesn ??? Huh?
@@thalesn Lol. Do you even play the game?
@@thalesn please tell me you are joking. "Most jobs"? Im sorry beside healer, idk any class can spam 1 button to do as their main source of dmg
@@akiramurakami3177 Well smn now for anything below when they get favors. I wish that was given way early and just have it get upgraded with traits.
To be fair, there is another video I saw recently that addressed a different side of the healer drought in that healers are too attacked for “not being good enough”. The issue they presented was mainly an issue for party finder healers. The video states that for the current raid tier, the dps and even the tanks are not helping in mitigation so during a raid wide, there is too much damage or people just don’t know mechanics and die and blame the healers for it. Many people in the comments added to the issue of dps not owning to mistakes or using feint during some obvious attacks. Some commenters even have issues with maintaining mana during a fight so they bring ethers as their potion on choice. Healers just have it rough man
Yeah it's a big problem of people in PF not knowing what their mitigation buttons are or where to use them. It's not uncommon to run people who straight up don't use them or have them mapped. For tanks it's especially rough because tanks can't smoothbrain invuln all the tbs and actually have to use their mitigation which a lot refuse to for some reason? But what people don't understand is healers are actually kind of overall limited in pure mitigation so they do need the party to help out where they can.
@@24hr-Gaming That last point is kind of why I want ranged phyiscal dps to also have more mitigation buttons.
I know BRD, DNC, and MCH has there party wide mitigation, but it is kinda weird (for me at least) to for the “utility” jobs to have only 1 form of mitigation. For me it sucks not being able to use Troubadour more on my BRD or Shield Samba on DNC since helping the whole party gives me a bit more serotonin in fights. (Which is why I main BRD/DNC for those sweet sweet party buffs). Hell, I’ll take a reduced cooldown for more uses
As a healer I agree
The number of tanks that don't mitigate properly or dps that don't play the mechanics make my life well interesting. Working to keep them alive definitely keeps me healing, but I can't always heal fast enough and then I get tunnel vision on the hp bars and miss mechanics
@@24hr-Gaming our static had a Blackmage step in as a sub and he didn't even had Addle on his hotbar. As we asked him to pls use it he wondered why he'd should use a skill that reduced his damage
yeah i always try to use my debuff/buff as a dps, but some times i don't understand if what i'm doing it's really having some impact on the fight or not (in savage and extreme ofc)
Also, I think healing in most games gets a bad rep because when your team is doing well your healing is at its worst. A good healer shines brightest when your team is just learning or is struggling.
Unless the game forces people to take damage and adds heal to the main mechanics. MapleStory 2 was a game that this did and it was awesome as a healer to have a heal check time that was crucial.
Jobs don't have to just be complex. They need to be engaging. Dps can have more priority or proc based abilities. 30 button rotations isn't engaging, it's just muscle memory.
That can really be said for almost every job in FFXIV. Just follow your rotations for optimal play.
that depends from person to person. for some, consistent execution of muscle memory is engaging. Some do have procs instead, mainly DNC and (to lesser degrees) BRD/RDM.
that being said, engagement is important. healers are engaging in high damage areas. But that means your reward for mastering healer is less fun, which is as ironic as it is stupid. more engaging damage options would go a very long way.
@@hellfrozenphoenix13 It’s also not even really high damage anymore. At best it’s spike damage which is just as much a tank/DPS mit check as it is a heal check.
Makes playing WHM feel like ass because there’s no real use for high healing THROUGHPUT. You get a few instances a tier and the rest are just mit checks. I know Ultima Unreal was a big joke mechs-wise, I won’t argue that, but it was probably the most fun I’ve had in a long while specifically BECAUSE the sheer throughput I had on WHM could save a run.
Honestly if they were to remove buttons and have the gameplay be very priority and proc based it would become too close to wow gameplay in my opinion and I like that ffxiv is different. Like "The Best Bilbo" said i find consistent execution of muscle memory engaging while just pressing a button when it light up (proc) pretty boring.
Yeah, there's totally not a bunch of games, activities, and professions people engage with and even dedicate their whole lives to due to how engaging it is to exercise their muscle memory and perfectly execute a set of optimal motions... right?
Really now, why do people playing this game keep insisting that the concept of something being "engaging" is objectively defined by their own entirely subjective personal preferences?
As someone who healed PF a little bit in stormblood and in a static all of shadowbringers and the first tier of endwalker, I LOVE progging on a healer. but as soon as you map out your cooldown usage the role becomes unbearably boring and I would get really tilted when people would mess up or we would wipe because I wasn't getting to do anything new. I swapped to dancer for this tier and even though that class gets memed on for being easy it's still infinitely more fun for me during reclears compared to when i used to heal.
in a static sure, go into PF for some real fun (sometime it can actually be fun, other times it's a horrible mess)
what? why would you get tilted xD i always *beg* for my static to fck up because finally there is something to do besides following the mit sheet and pressing 1/2 :D
Here is my take on healers.
It's not 1 problem but several.
1) Shifting Blame. If someone dies, regardless of how, the Healer will be blamed more often than not. It doesn't matter that the person had 16 Vuln Stacks, didn't pop Mitigation, etc. the Healer will be blamed for not keeping them alive. It's more than a little frustrating when you throw the Kitchen Sink at someone to try and keep them alive only for them to die anyways and be blamed for it, despite never once popping Feint/Addle/etc. themselves. It's hard to stay motivated to play healer when people don't want to take responsibility for their own actions and just pick the easy target.
2) Healer Toolkits are largely disjointed messes of oversaturated redundancy. Outside of some minor niche, there's simply too much overlap between skills in any given healer's toolkit that warrants actually being a skill. Afflatus Skills on WHM, as an example could be reduced to a trait that causes Medica and Cure 2 to simply upgrade to their Afflatus form when a Lily is available. Summon Eos and Summon Selene are purely cosmetic options at this point so why hasn't it been turned into a Macro command like the Egi Glams and made into a single button? Undraw is still in the game, for whatever reason. If these skills had a legitimate purpose, or if SE had some plans in the works to make Healer Toolkits more interconnected in some way, I could understand it but after EW did NOTHING to address these skills, I doubt that's the case. On the flip side of things, PvP Healer toolkits are pretty interactive with each other. Seraph Strike turning into Cure 3, Deployment Tactics spreading your DoTs or Shields, etc. allow healers to not only play differently from one another but also allow them to be more engaging since it's not just mindly spamming the same button ad nauseum.
3) Playing as a Healer in anything other than group content is boring AF. Like Chair said, you have all of 2 damage abilities for the entirety of your playing experience, so trying to do the story content, solo instances, tribal quest, etc. as a Healer is akin to watching paint dry in how slow and boring it is. Unless you play SCH and can keep SMN gear up to date to swap between the 2, your solo experience as a healer is the single worst aspect of the game and considering the game locks you out of content until you advance the story, you're just kind of screwed in that regard.
The Healer drought is only going to get worse if nothing is done about it.
There's a healer drought?
Roulettes is almost nothing but tank needed for almost everything for me, maybe it's datacenter related, but on crystal there's no shortage of healers at all.
@@Llynethil people play healers for fast roulette queues, it proves absolutely nothing. It's ROULETTES.
@@Akenaph Regular raids there is no problem finding healers neither, if there really was a drought like you said, roulettes would also be affected heavily, you can queue as tank for instaqueue aswell and it's even easier to play as a healer, and yet more people choose healer over tank anyway.
There is no shortage of anything in FF14, you're just imagining things, you have 0 proof of that being the case yourself.
based on the comment im gonna assume you dont do any high end content. but the toolkits are fine. they are not at all redundant in savage and especially ultimate. (which is pretty much the only thing that matters) every single spell and skill need to be utilized and they all have their place. if medica and c2 consume lilies then what are you gonna use when you NEED ogcd lilies???
There is no healer drought there hasnt been one for years now
I think healing is a blast but only when everything is going wrong and you've gotta scramble to get the party going.
Outside that it's almost relaxing in a way.
This is why healing is much more exciting in casual content when people are more likely to mess up mechanics
Nothing relaxing about mashing 1 button. It's fucking boring.
Triage is the fun part of healing, but our non-cd spells are so weak compared to hp pools that once I'm out of cooldowns I just end up more frustrated than anything. This heal size change I noticed when I started SHB and it drove me away from healing as my main that xpac, for the first time in any mmo.
Gave healing another try in EW and still have this issue. It feels awful to press a single target lily, have it do maybe 20k to a 60k hp player who just took a 60% HP damage mechanic that gave them a vuln, and they can just die to another mechanic (at least the squishier jobs, tanks never care about vulns) if I don't use an ocgd cd on top. And if that's on CD, someone can just die with nothing I can do. Part of why I play healers is I hate avoidable deaths.
Like when someone messes up certain mechanics that don't instantly oneshot them, but are clearly meant to kill them because they do 70%+ HP and apply a dot for up to 20% hp a tick, I just get annoyed at the mechanic and say (if I can) "fuck you I'll save them anyways", but sometimes that's just difficult because so much of our kit's power is in CDs.
I agree 100% I loved the challenge of keeping everyone alive when the newest patch dropped and no one knew what was going on. I was even making use of Rescue for a change.
This is what makes healing fun! When things go wrong it's fun and otherwise it's chill. Personally if I wanted to do a complex rote rotation I would play a dps.
We have 2 options
1: the current way things are
2: not making most jobs feel 80% the same
Bonus: also not only having 2 dps buttons
What do you mean by only 2 dps buttons? By all technicality, WHM has 5 dps buttons.
@@Reinhard96 Glare and Dia are used on a regular basis, Assize is just weaved in on CD without a modicum of thought, Holy will never be used in a boss fight, and Afflatus Misery is so conditional that you can go through a full boss battle without ever procing it. Let's be real, your damage options and job depth as healer really don't feel much different at 90 than they do at 50, 60, etc
@@Reinhard96 even if I'm really generous with assize, which you'll only use in 45 second intervals, holy doesnt get used outside of trash pulls, and misery pretty much only exists to get back glare damage lost from gcd healing
@@Reinhard96 going by technicalities to give 5 dps buttons, 3 every healer has being the aoe, dot, and basic damage, 1 requires you to gcd heal, and 1 is an ogcd every 45 seconds.
@@blueray222 i mean, if you never use misery under buffs you are just bad :D its the games fault for being designed around speed clears. healers should never ask for more dps buttons because they are... HEALERS. Problem is that even ultimates boil down to "follow the mitigation spreadsheet, press glare on CD, keep dot up". If the fights would be designed more dynamic, healers would not scream for more dmg buttons because they are bored and wanna look at more pretty stuff
My breaking point as a healer since the 2.0 beta in general was Yoshi's remark in a live letter (idk which one, I don't remember), where he said something between the lines of "if healers want hard content do savage and ultimates", you just told me that 99% of the content in the game is not for me or is going to be really boring. At that point I just lost hope for the role in general and started branching to tank / dps.
I can see why in general people that don't like simple rotation (healer boring gang) or healing pressure (don't blame me gang) would stop playing (specially on this tier), causing this whole issue. I just had a DPS compliment me when we cleared P6S and even that caught me off-guard (not that they have to tell me that or that I need their approval), but it just felt like fresh air after being blamed for everything on clears / reclears (even when deaths weren't because of me or a healing issue).
Keep WHM brainless but give them some oGCD heals (that deal a bit of dps otherwise they won't press it). Give AST the cards effects back (not the TP one, we don't talk about the TP one). Rework Scholar so that they are not only a recitation + adlo bot (I miss you shadowflare). As for Sage idk, give me a reason to do single target shields or something, and remove eukrasia, we removed dark arts on DRK for a reason.
i have pretty much the same idea. if they want healers to be accessible to entry level they can leave whm as it is and add a few ogcd heal and dps buttons. make other healers more interesting dps wise. we can do so much when it comes to job theme and rotation. the only healer that's busy enough rn to be entertaining is ast and even then it's not really that hard if ur group is consistent. but i doubt that SE take away from this entire issue of lacking healers in pf is probably would be "fights are too hard nerf em and make healing easier" and not "make healers have rotation while enforcing other party members to use mit properly"
Yes, If you want HARDER content... play HARDER content...
However every expansion demands more out of everyone, especially healers. Healing isnt about a DPS rotations, its about easing mistakes the team amkes.
You're simply playing with the wrong mindset... how high have you even healed up to?
@@elgatochurro Team will eventually not make those mistakes and the healer will be back to 1 button spamming.
Everyone plays differently so I wont argue about the "wrong mindset". And even if it was, I just don't think it justifies having 90% of the content be 1 button spam for healers. Just seems like bad and or lazy design.
@@noshyre7194 oh no... Efficiency... How terrible...
Would a boring 3 sequence of buttons be better that you can fail at? More extra buttons for the same of buttons? Because I know what I love more than spamming glare is the 1 2 3 of my tank rotation. Very engaging I assure you and totally not "lazy".
@@elgatochurro Oh so you agree that even the 123 combat is not engaging and lazy?
The kardia heal is so small that yeah I totally agree that sage kardia is equivalent to fairy heals of scholar. And yeah I expected sage would have at least one dps combo move in it's rotation.
With Soteria, Kardia SMACKS. You don't realize it until you don't have a sage in the party, but Kardia does A LOT.
@@adognamedsally it does a bit, but so does Fairy heals. hoenstky, i agree they feel a bit similar output wise outside of CDs, and then the fairy just does more area focused, Kardia mire solo focused.
i like SGE, but it could use some bonus complexity in areas. for a Battle Medic, its battle options are pretty limited and restrictive.
@@hellfrozenphoenix13 I think the fairy is generally worse than Kardia, because healing anyone other than the tank is not great, unless that heal with save you from using a Whispering Dawn or Indom. Plus, you totally can move Kardia to someone to heal them if you know the tank won't be taking a lot of damage in the near-term. Smart use of Kardia can free up a bunch of CDs.
They are similar to SCH, but (and this seems to be an opinion unique to me) they feel different in gameplay. Even though most of their abilities DO the same thing as SCH abilities, SGE feels different and the times when I use those abilities is also different.
kardia does in some places come up and in savage I kinda think about it at points as a subtle help on keeping the tanks alive, but it's absolutely a very minor part of the job and not what you focus the gameplay on, it is reflavoured fairy you can actually control rather than healing whoever it fucking feels like.
@@adognamedsally who cares bro xD Soteria is one of the most boring skills i've ever seen. Sure its great healing but so are the other 20 random healing oGCD's every class is bloated with and are not used in 98% of content in the game
As an AST main, I do feel like I sometimes wish I could offer more in the way of buffs, I am always sad Nocturnal is gone and technically reworked into Neutral Sect but still it was fun playing Nocturnal. I would love AoE dots again I enjoyed those a lot before. As far as DPS dying to a mech... If you get hit it sucks learn from it. I will absolutely try to keep them alive if at all possible but sometimes it's not, I know a particular heal won't be enough so I will shift to a higher priority target. Granted I hate letting my party drop to 50% or less so I usually have something setup just in case. But I absolutely will prioritize a tank(s) over DPS. Unless its someone able to rez, they are second on the list sometimes first depending on the fight.
I wish we had some nuances to healing in ffxiv. Like.
SCH and WHM being the "friendly noob ones", the shield and the pure healer that new players start and learn how to play.
AST and SGE being the ones you'll need to spend some time to learn... With more buffs (AST) and a more complex dps rotation (SGE).
I don't know... Just something i tought about it.
RIP Heavensward Astrologian. That was genuinely the most fun I’ve ever had with a job in ffxiv. Then they also got rid of nocturnal sect. It was unconventional but fun. Having to relearn the job each expansion really makes your previous investment in the job kinda for nothing.
I stopped playing towards the end of Heavensward and was maining Astro. I had no idea what had changed with the job then I came back to FFXIV like a month ago and I couldn't believe how they had massacred my boy...
Astro would be getting a rework in Dawntrail (next expansion) so look forward to it
They have struggled to balance AST since it got introduced. Originally undertuned, then became the meta choice with the balance card buff, then nerfed, then reached a stable state in SB for a while, then got its entire card mechanic reworked and now it’s botched.
As a healer main playing on both western and JP server, I feel that having a boring dmg rotation is a niche problem for very optimised group only, and is only a small problem in the healer drought problem. I feel the 2 biggest issue plaguing the healing community are:
1) Healer Anxiety - When I asked my friends to try healing, this is the biggest reason I get for not wanting to heal. The imbalance in job responsibility pushed most of them away from even trying it out. In most content dying as tank or dps is only a setback and is recoverable, but dying as a healer is almost always a wipe if no one else has rez. This puts a lot of pressure on healers to be near perfect with mechanics or risk wiping the party.
2) Lack of empathy for healers - This is what pushed me away from healing in western servers. I’ve seen so many people taking “healer adjust” very literally and just ignore every single mechanics and expects me to save them. I’ve had 2nd healers who does nothing but DPSing and can’t even be bothered to rez even with swiftcast off cool-down. I’ve saved a whole run being the last man alive, and get no thanks or commendation in the end.
Being a healer is a thankless job. I have many problems playing healer in FF14, and having a boring DPS is the least of it.
I'm a whm casual player, and whm is my only lvl 90.. and even I can say I fall more so into your two points here, than being bored with the lack of dps rotation, or bored of not having to constantly heal. Maybe its more about healer anxiety than boredom, as we and the devs know ffxiv is more of a casual player base. I can feel the expectation on healers to carry the party a lot. I was recently in a normal raid where no one was trying to follow mechanics or use mits, The other healer and I were being blamed for wipes, and the party voted abandon. I queue up for the raid again and we clear first try. The point is its not always the healers fault. And the party can always do better to help the healer. If no one knows the mechanics, there are going to be wipes until we all figure them out together. Let's normalize healers managing expectations of the party and evouraging everyone to have a sense of self-responsibility.
But ALSO, AFTER we get everyone's expectations on healers managed, then the devs should absolutely give us some more interesting dps rotation because yeah, it's boring lol. But that's not the first priority imo
Yep this right here. As a WHM main I actually like how easy it is for me to toss in damage. And I've yet to have a perfect party where people properly mitigate every attack and i have to chase the healing. And if I fail they blame me. It's a paranoia thing for me.
Same. I don't mind the 1 button damage, but for me I'll only really like healing trials and raids where there's a co-healer and never current extremes because I struggle enough to stay alive as a dps so I don't want to troll PF as a healer.
For me it's definitely the anxiety and worry that if I'm the only healer I have to do everything perfectly otherwise it's basically a guaranteed wipe unless there's a RDM/SUM to res me.
It would be nice to have some additional dps options obviously, but it's not why I don't PF as healer
I agree as a healer mean I've been going back and forth if I should hang up my healing code and just focus on being a dancer because of everything you mentioned I started as a healer to be honest because I healed in world of Warcraft and I was used to it and it was fun until you get to the higher levels and you see the tanks in the DPS doing whatever they want and not helping the healer and it just gets tired and after a while. 100% I agree with you that it's a thankless job that's why I'm pretty much going to hang up my healing coat I may do it once in awhile but I'm probably going to focus on dancing because healing is just so stressful right now that it's not even worth it and exhausting mentally.
The old Astrologian card buffs seem so cool, I remember when I first played it I was hoping the cards would get more unique effects. Now I'm sad :(
"every job needs to be accessible for everybody" meanwhile CNJ is still the only intro job to healer
in fairness to that, all of the healers below lvl 30 play the same at the moment, put dot on spam 1 dmg button heal if needed to
@@luisdunfordgavira it still kind of sucks in a way that, if you know you want to play Sage for instance, you have to play something else until you unlock it. They should kind of do something about that. I understand they can’t do a whole 1-70 questline just like that or adjust drops but there are generic items that fit all DoM jobs. And you could stipulate that you can only level in like dungeons and with regular quests 🤷♂️
As a healer main since arr, I think they made healing a little too basic. I would like to see more dps options.
either that or requiring more healing, so that healers spend more time healing than pressing glare lmao
@@Carsu12 this is why we can’t have more damage options honestly. People don’t even heal properly as is. I would be down for this if people did their job
@@cynthiahembree3957 There will always be bad players. That's unavoidable no matter how simple you make a game. At a certain point, trying to babyproof each job in order to compensate for those players just serves to punish the rest of the player base for something they're not responsible for.
Remember T13? When Flatten required like 4 GCD heals? And when Earthshakers required 2-3 GCDs? I think that fight is really engaging as a healer, even now. Perhaps they thought it was too punishing, but I really want them to do more of that. What do you think of all the DoTs in the current tier? I feel like it's them trying to move more in that direction, forcing healers to spend more actions on people who are taking damage.
@@cynthiahembree3957 People don't even use their healing ogcds. It's not a problem of damage bad but somehow these people filter into high end content without knowing what most of their kit does. That's not a problem with the kit, that's a problem with the game never showing the player that they should use their kit.
That being said if they're going to make people do 2 min burst they could at least give healers a shiny do dmg in 2 min burst button. Phlegma x2 or a maybe Lord of Crowns is so boring.
This is a good vid. This has pretty much been why I haven't played healer much. I've recently started trying Sage, and I've got to say it's pretty cool, but you still don't have enough damage abilities. Or like he said in the vid if there was more damage going out then it would have you doing more, but it would definitely make it problematic for new players.
I'm so tired of people asking for old astrologian buffs back when all anyone ever did was fish for balance and get pissed when other cards came up
I think it would be a lot more interesting if they added ways to dovetail healing rotations and dps rotations. DPS jobs have combos that split off in more than one direction, healing jobs could have the same idea. Let healers alternate between healing combos and dps combos seamlessly, or even blend them together.
I wish my whm had a proc for each lily I press or for every glare I throw, I'm so much on autopilot that sometimes I even forget to heal
Same, I started playing Astrologian at the beginning of Stormblood and learning all the card buffs was fun, I literally printed out a physical vision of them to learn what they do I even main Astrologian in Pvp and now the current version feels like the bootleg version of Astrologian just not as enjoyable as before.
But the main reason no one wants to play healer this savage tier IS because they designed the fights to be way more healing intensive than previous tiers. Everything just hurts SO. DAMN. MUCH. this raid tier. Healer damage rotations have nothing to do with the sudden drop off in healers because P1-4S didn't have this issue. The main frustration for healers this tier is there's a much higher emphasis placed on mitigations that healers have absolutely no control over. Tank forgot to use an extra mitigation and the DPS didn't use Feint for the tank buster? Well I guess the tanks is just gonna die from the bleed DoT. P5S Sonic Shatter with only a Reprisal for mitigation? Good luck surviving past the third raidwide. P7S Light of Life will straight up kill all the non-tanks from 100% HP if not mitigated properly. There's no way healers can even adjust if everyone just gets 1/2 shot without mits (and we haven't even talked about scenarios where healers don't have all their resources because someone died previously due to mechanics)
Exactly this. The people who are suggesting fights to require more healing to make healers “feel more engaged” and “want to play healer more” are very obviously not healer mains. Healing in an unoptimized group is VERY punishing right now. We just don’t want to deal with it.
@@hatlebee FACTS
A big problem is how many people treat healer. If the healer is doing a good job, you don't notice them, but when they're doing poorly, they become prime target. As a tank main, I always thank the healer and they get my commendation, because I know that without them there, I couldn't do my job
Not so-
If you pulled the packs in the initial manner as they are shown, the healer would have to do next to nothing.
BUT that's boring- if anything people notice their healer when they actually do difficult-ish things such as a full pull with no CD cause you panik/fat fingered the invuln last pull. xD
It's not that healers don't want to be challenged, but when the standard is set high, it becomes a barrier for beginner/limited players.
That's why the healers are so simplified now, and will probably stay as such to maintain accessibility.
I wish understand this logic. It's okay to critique how someone is playing their job. Obviously we need healers, but just afk healing is not the way and thanking every healers for existing is cringe.
There's no barrier to just picking up the class/job lol
@@robertcortes5361 Yeah I mean, I wrote this comment when I first started playing. I don't commend anyone anymore because 90% of the people playing this game don't know how to
I have to agree with the comment of one of Zepla's viewers.
I don't really want healers to get "complicated" at all, sure, using only one button is too simple. But i really don't think that making healers mechanically "harder" to use will not make it a more picked class, hell..it would probably kill it all together.
I'm going to say something really controversial (probably because i am not in the "loop" with what the community thinks about this):
-I think Astrologian was too boring before because you had to remember what all the cards buffs did and use them appropriately.
- healers will never be a highly picked class (saying this as an healer main in literally every game) because there is a stigma around them of being the "slave" of the team, of being the "beta player that is scared of doing damage", of being "the guy we have to carry and maybe steal loot from the important components of the team" and this is something that as a main healer i see EVERYWHERE.
I was a healer main in the past (mained WHM since late HW) and until this expansion I pretty much always farmed tomestones as a healer. But the mood and attitude of the community I have found has changed quite a bit recently. Now, I have to be 110% on my game, or the tank that wants to pull wall to wall without using any mitigations is going to blame me when we wipe. Big massive pulls work when everyone does their job well, but in PF, if a DPS takes avoidable damage right before a party-wide damage wave, and the pull is so big that if I miss a single GCD the tank will die, it's a lot of stress and pressure I do not need. I play to have fun, I have a job for stress. :)
The "if a big pull fails it's the healer's fault" mentality is what keeps me away from PF as healer most days. Unless I am ready for that level of intensity, I skip PF healing entirely and I'll wait out the queues as DPS.
I think they should reduce the amount of oGCD heals and add more dps skills. Currently healers have far too many redundant heals and not interesting enough dps options.
I main sage and enjoy it for the most part but I have to say...I am extremely disappointed with the direction they took with it. It was sold to us as a "healer that can heal by doing damage" but then made kardia just a glorified regen, and just stole most ability designs from SCH. I wish they had embraced the idea of healing by doing damage a lot more
They can’t. They literally can’t. As soon as that becomes the case, there would be no reason to play anything else. If the Sage’s healing was enough to keep the party alive, then they just are a higher DPS WHM, SCH, or AST.
@@TheSpicyLeg They literally could...
Right now no healers really lose dps uptime to heal so saying that being able to heal through doing dmg makes them stronger is just incorrect. It would just mean sage casts less oGCD heals...right now blood lilies literally work on this principle of healing to do damage and are they OP?
Think about how cool it would be if there was a way to spread your kardia to all players for 20 seconds, or have your kardia convert healing into a shield for 20 seconds. There are lots of things that could be done. They would do the same damage and healing as now, it wouldn't change at all...
@@drob8220 Oh, my, no. During prog you’re GCD healing quite a bit. Yet even were that not the case, being able to damage and heal simultaneously is still preferable to doing one or the other. Not to mention, the sage wouldn’t have to retarget like other healers do, which while a relatively minor concern, still adds up.
There is no way around this problem. Either they have to make the ‘healer’ more like a DPS, or threaten the party more often so as to require healing. The problem with making a healer more like a DPS is why bother to have healers to begin with. As it is now, unless a party members makes a mistake, healing is preplanned. In other words, there is no reactivity. Remember why they removed Protect? People were casting it once at the start, and that’s it. Healing now is cast X at these time intervals.
@@TheSpicyLeg Give the option. I mean cleric stance was literally that option in the past. The problem is the better you get on healer the more boring it gets which is the opposite of everything else in the game.
Sage having a dps rotation for heals while mitigating with ogcds with stacks being used for brute force healing like teurochole or the aoe heal would be completely fine. Atleast it’d play different and have its own form of engagement.
And considering how sch is the the other shield healer and you’re allowed to push yourself with the balance of using stacks for damage or heals; it’d follow the trend of the shield healer teetering the line of using their resources between healing and more damage. So when you do get good enough you can use your resources less on healing and more on dpsing while keeping the party alive.
I believe right now Sage has the lowest dps right now, which is hilarious considering how it was being sold to us. Not everyone would want a dps rotation on a healer either so I doubt no one would play the others because of it. Just balance the damage so they’re not ridiculously higher than the next, but surely make them the strongest.
Give sage a way to dump the blue useless stacks on dmg and add some ogcd dmg buttons and it would be way more fun during downtime.
doesnt help SE has made content extremely easy outside of ex/sav/ult and catered content predominately to casuals instead of making it harder in increments each expansion. If they would just make difficulty harder it would probably work better.
I wouldn't say no to more offensive tools but I want to use my healing abilities more. I want to spend more time healing.
i want 3 types of healers, the regular one, a pure regen healer and a pure barrier healer. also i want a white mage barrier healer without a fairy and spells not locked behind aetherflow. also i sage is just boring
I enjoy healing for the simplicity of the job, the main priority is ofc healing 2nd is whatever damage you can put out but that comes after. I'm more of a one track mind. For this reason Tanking come naturally to me to. The main focus being popping off buff then doing whatever damage. I struggle with dps just because of too many actions positions and different buttons doing different things unlike healer/tank that are clustered skills.
I just want a Soul Maker look alike copy 😔 I would love to have dolls or puppets as weapons, the designs can be endless. Then have the skill to turn into a demon as a power burst. Have yet to play anything similar again 😞
The catgirl dancing in the perfect location to be in the part of the game that isn't covered is perfect haha, I love it.
its annoying to be honest
@@rares4894 You wanna talk annoying, let's talk about that goddamn loporrit humming lmao
It's like those meme videos where it's like "1 hour of silence occasionally broken by _____"
Literally I wish healers had even the most basic of rotations, something half as simple as even warrior, sage and astro are kinda close with having to juggle cards or having to manage the phlegma cooldown (which was way more fun when trick attack was still a raid buff because you could optimise around that). I don't even know if this is optimal but I'm so bored on sage when I dont need to heal I do dot reallignment optimisation like I'm playing bard. I enjoy playing sage in savage it's fun to manage my cooldowns to pump a lot of healing and mitigation it has the fun utility of tanks, but especailly in a fight as painfully slow as p7s, I still feel the weight of dosis spam being boring as hell.
You know to the topic about adding one button combo and need more buttons
It’s an easy and unique way to add more to the game
Example
I’m a Dark Knight and if I combined my 3 button single target combo into one
Then for the two other spots we can have a support buff that grants 20% counter of damage taken and maybe even that buffs Damage for you and party by 10% for 10 seconds
Like more ways to have more utility for each class why streamlining the simple combos
As someone who did both Mythic Raiding in WoW as a Healer and doing Savage Content now as a WHM in FF14 I must say at the beginning of going into Savage it was shocking to me that every fight feels like "do max dmg , just heal if needed" and this is one thing that still kinda bothers me with the raiding scene in this game. I can´t think of one mechanic in the new Savage Raids that really puts emphasis on the healer class , their utility nor like a real HPS check which is something WoW is still doing so much better (and no flaming here , I quit WoW for good years ago). Neither are there any ways of changing your style of play as a healer with specific talents for specific fights , too. Furthermore , outside of Sage (which is IMO a worse mechanic than Beacons or Glimmer Holy Pala) there isn´t even the possibility to play a kinda like DPS healer who heals through their DMG which though should be the main focus in Savage anyways. As much as I love the game and my WHM , healing in Raid Content is an issue and I just hope some day we will get fights and tiers who are much more centered about the main focus a healer should have : Healing.
What about P7 with the Condensed Aero into Light of Life/Spark of Life combos? That is a healer mechanic right there. Purgation is another big healer mech. All of the tankbusters have DoTs this tier. No matter how much mit I throw at them (like 50%), the DoT still ticks for like 1/4 of my hp pool. Another healer mechanic. Even last tier, Firestorms of Asphodelos, Death's Toll and Curtain Call were huge healer mechanics, even if the other turns were kinda meh.
@@adognamedsally I don´t consider a Tankbuster a healer mechanic especially if those heavily rely on your Tank like in p5s. If the tank does a decent job there is not much I need to do , seen this with good tanks and bad ones Everything that just has to be mitigated neither , counting in Purgation , looking on your Debuff and your group how to position. It´s just basic things you do have to do , nothing fancy. I give you an example of what I would call a healer mechanic. How hard would it be to impliment in p6s for example that you as a healer has to keep an eye out on the debuffs and remove them so people shoot them out or in based on their debuff but would die if they don´t get removed ? Why for HPS checks we don´t have constant ticking damage on the group outside of based setlines for dmg incoming ? If you once see fights , you exactly know the patterns when to heal. That is just not fun and engaging in any way or shape. Furthermore , if we haven´t have the opportunity to rezz at our hearts content , this would put much more emphasis on good healing and using utility more careful either.
@@adognamedsally that's all predictable damage. In WoW you have constant ticking damage on the whole raid forcing you to spam heals for maximum hps
Maybe to sum my thoughts up and I do think this is very fitting : If a Game makes you feel bad because you rather push one healing more to be certain to survive a mechanic or having to rezz someone than pressing one more Glare and punishes you with not hitting the enrage timer , it just hasn´t understood the role of a Healer at all.
@@shakeweller Exactly what I mean.
healing is only boring at end game savage stuff and especially when everyone knows what they're doing, because you'll mostly just spam one button and occasionally some other buttons while healing tank busters and raid wides.
In fresh content however, i think it's the scariest role to play since you'll always be on the edge of your seat trying not to die and making sure everyone else doesn't die. That's when i can really appreciate the one button spam lol
Absolutely this. Before people have the ilvl and knowledge to smoothly run content, it makes it a lot more interesting (and stressful lol) keeping the tank/party alive. They've also definitely been working to make the newer savage and EX content require some more active healing overall I think. I don't really have all that much savage experience overall, but EX4 knuckle drum and P5S tankbusters definitely feel a lot harder to heal than most things from last tier.
i think the real issue people have is that there is no meaningful reward for healing efficiently other than having more time to spam 1 button
the mastery of the role reward you with disengaging spam. thats a flaw, and not a small one. and at that stage, all the healers aside from SGE feel the same. those are the real issues.
Now, i agree that with fresh content, its more stressful. for like a month, maybe 2, its harder. then people learn and it becomes very plain again, where maximum use comes in the form of refresh dot, spam 1.
im not going to ask for them to make the rotations as hard as normal DPS, but they should be engaging. SCH having a second dot, maybe one oGCD not tied to Aetherflow? much more engagement for low damage phases.
AST getting a "build up then burst" style skill for spamming 1? fits their management style and breaks up the 1 with occasional 2 at least.
SGE has the right ideas, just too long on CD imo.
WHM should have dmaage options when building up blood lilly, because having your job gauge be potentially useless feels pretty bad.
In other words, the reward for mastery for tanks is being much harder to kill and executing your damage as best as you can. the reward for mastery on DPS is killing things much faster and easier. the Mastery for healers is less healing and more spam. Mastering healers needs a small edge up on the reward side.
I mean how often is there fresh content to enjoy healing in? That only lasts like a week after the patch and then you go back to pressing one button again cause the majority of people know what to do for the next 4 months.
Big disagree, high end content is the only place I enjoy healing because I actually have to use all my tools and think, in normal content I am bored out of my mind because I have a swiss army knife for cuttting butter, even when people are constantly fucking up and taking tons more damage, it only kinda evens out how little damage is actually happening.
healing is fun but i would like more damage buttons besides spamming 1
Healers are not quitting because it’s boring. Healers are quitting because this savage tier the life of the party is not really in your hands, it’s in the dps hands. Most raid wides kill your entire party if your dps do not press their 1 mitigation button. And when they forget, they blame healers. I’ve had dps die at 99% hp and say “ I wasn’t topped” well, I’m not gonna fucking waste another cooldown or a gcd just to heal that extra 1% when you could have pressed 1 button to reduce that damage by 10%
i would love clear roles for everyone. tanks tank and mitigate damage, and healers heal more instead of damage. now everyone is a dps with a side quest.
I'm perhaps one of the few people who would like to see a change to WHM to make it a bit more in depth - I kind of play it for the aesthetic and wouldn't mind a change to it's playstyle.
The most fun I currently have as a healer is when all the alliances are down in 24 mans and I'm rezzing everyone, and I'm chortling to myself witnessing more upcoming death when a mechanic pops.
I remember that astro was intended as a support class. The RnG in dungeon runs made it fun and I had to think on my feet. I'll still play astro, whatever the next iteration will turn out.
26:17 if it is about new players, than why nothing changes at LVL 90?
Coming from the perspective of someone going through this tier of savage through PF, I feel I have a differing opinion from most in these comments.
Most random healers I've run into fall into one of 2 camps... those that dps and barely heal and those that only heal and have horrible dps. This causes many groups to end up situations where either the group damage is too low and enrage isn't met, which could have been bridged by the healer doing at least 4.5k dps instead of 2k by using their ogcds better, or the group wiping due to not enough healing because the whm was busy glaring.
My point being that the average healer cannot handle any more complexity in their dps rotation because most healers already can't balance healing and dpsing well. EDIT: I'd also add that these healers also remain completely unaware of this, as the other healer (me in this case) picks up the slack wherever the other is lacking (e.g., sacrificing some dps in order to heal more with gcds, but still maintaining enough dps to clear OR dpsing and holding my heals for emergencies if the other healer is overhealing with gcds and barely dpsing). This is further exacerbated by tools such as ACT and fflogs not being "allowed", further leaving many people ignorant to their actual performance. I'd venture to say that a large portion of people that want more dps complexity, if you were to look at their healing logs, parse grey in healing in savage and their co-healer had to pick up the slack.
Outside of savage and below content, sure, I can agree they need to give healers more to do. But for progging savage content, I feel healing is in a good place for the average player.
That's what's irritating about healing. When everything is going perfectly, all I have to do is spam one or two spells, and weave the occasional OGCD. It's extremely boring. It becomes far more engaging when things go wrong, because then I can actually use my full kit. That's honestly a problem, I feel. A class shouldn't be boring more than half the time. I do want an expanded dps rotation for healers, to keep me entertained when busting out all the stops to heal isn't necessary. Also for solo content. Healers are subpar for MSQ and other solo content just because all they have for offensive options are maybe 3-4 spells. Every class should be *fun* for every piece of content in the game, imo. Healers just aren't.
As a healer main I 100% agree with you and I simply don't understand why others don't seem get that. I love the balance of knowing when I healed/mitigated enough and trying to maximize my damage at the same time. This raid tier I also ran into one of those 2 types of other healers you mentioned almost all the time in PF. Getting paired with someone who can truly balance both is really, really rare.
I love your point about the parses. I've found parsing and analysing my logs to make healing much more enjoyable. Sure the dps rotation is still basic af but learning how to optimize my GCD uptime, and minimizing gcd heals by using my ogcd cooldowns adds a decent layer of complexity. Imo, healer is already the most difficult class if you account for the variability you get in prog parties as well
@@TheSuperRatt In savage, you do have the ability to use your full kit. I'm using every single mitigation tool, every healing buff, etc. even when things aren't going poorly. Then, once things do go poorly, you have decisions to make when it comes to using some of your ogcds early OR sacrificing gcds, etc. Only In a well oiled static will yo consistently not necessarily need to use all your tools because everyone is mitigating properly, but outside of that, you're most likely using everything. And if you feel like you're not needing to use everything, then that's most likely because your co-healer is healing way too much, using gcd aoe heals on everything, etc.
I'd also argue that as a result of using your entire kit, the cadence of a healer isn't that much different from that of other jobs, at least for me right now as a SGE. Most jobs ultimately boil down to phases of 1-2-3 and then burst phases. During SGE/healer "burst phases" (i.e., when there's a tankbuster + raidwide coming up), you need to weave in your healing buffs, ogcd tank heals, weave in kardia target because of tank swap, keep the tanks alive with ogcds/gcds as needed, mitigate for raidwide, spot heal/rez anyone that messed up. If anything, healers always have the potential for more variation whereas a fight on farm for a dps is LITERALLY the same thing every time no matter what. In addition, they've tended to make a lot of mechanics where the healers are the ones to solve positioning and the dps literally follow marker above the healers' heads. There's plenty for healers to do.
@Sonic Mobian Judging by the fact that you name off spells like aero and stone, I can see that you haven't fully leveled or have access to your full kit yet. Healing before cap is a completely different beast and definitely doesn't feel "good" as you have to make sacrifices to heal in most cases. But at cap, you'll have ogcd heals such as tetra, your lillies which end up dps-neutral, etc. Also, between slidecasting (look it up if you're unsure what that is) and the gcd between dps casts, there's plenty of time to both move and weave in heals without sacrificing damage.
In your example, if someone is low I could, for example, go through this decision process of: 1) evaluate if they need a heal NOW and interrupt my cast vs. can it wait for my cast to finish, 2) I can then either weave an ogcd if one is available OR use a gcd such lilly/regen if moving or cure 2 if I don't need to move and have no other options, etc.
My problem is that it's only ever engaging in harder content.
I just unlocked astrologian and tbh I was sorta confused by why I would want to largely bother with drawing cards lmao. They’re all like extremely similar damage buffs. I love scholar though. It’s so fun!
Yeah because they used to be very different but people would just pull for the balance (basically what we have now) so from what I understand it was really the illusion of choice
As someone who healed through Savage - yes. It sucks. Your entire purpose is to pop 1-2 oGCD heals whenever the boss does a raidwide or mechanic, and then spam your 1 button damage rotation. It's not hard to heal, since every heal is almost a full heal, and it's not hard to keep a 1 button rotation straight in your mind. There are circumstances where you can use buffs or defensives sure, but they're not as numerous as those of other roles. And with every heal already almost being a full heal, not anywhere near as nessecary either.
And that's part of why, to me, healing Extremes was more fun. DPS and tanks could play worse and greed harder, without the mechanic immediately killing them unlike Savage where every wrong mechanic is a 1-shot. And so you had more instances of damage to heal through and it was more engaging.
I wish there was additional consistent, low damage, through out a fight. Little hits that add up if you let them, and keep you needing to do something other than spam Glare. And honestly, screw it, but healing potency might need severely reduced. Like, maybe even halved - except on shields. They're already so small most of the time if you don't crit, that to nerf them with everything else would make them pretty worthless.
Healers don't need more to 'do,' they just need more reasons to press the buttons they already have.
Also I said most of that before watching the reaction; having now seen the reaction, the very least they could do is make those changes for content going forward. Start this 'ten more years' of theirs off right.
They make good points and they showed their pov and information in a clear and easy to understand way. I do agree that jobs should have varying difficulty and that not all jobs NEED to be accessible by everyone to the point they have now. I still love AST but I did like feeling a tad more accomplished because I could play what's considered a "harder job" it at a certain level, and get better as it as I practiced. The homogenization could be turned down a few notices. Give us more flavour - not just coat everything in 1 spice because little jimmy over there thinks 1 button is too much. That said, I still don't like misshapen chair 😅
That shows a healthy maturity on your part, to be able to understand the merits of somebody's argument and even agree with them, even if you clash with them on a personal level, or find them too abrasive like Chair is. Separating personality from argument is becoming a lost art nowadays 😂
Old AST was terrible did you pull The Balance no? Oh well youre other cards are worthless or actively detrimental
sorry, but when i heard that sage is complicated? I cracked up. Spend some time on sage, it is not complex at any stretch - it is basically SCH light. The hardest part of the learning curve for me was learning the skill names and dealing with skills the shared the same colour- blue. I also disagree with "people not liking complex classes"- SOME people don't like them, and people don't like them when they feel that the complexity isn't rewarded, or isn't done well.
As a 6 year main healer in WoW and a lvl 70 SCH, WHM, AST, in FF14 (Im still leveling) I can say that the most fun I have had in my entire healing journey has been in Legion/BFA as a Discipline Priest. This was, without a doubt, the most enjoyable role in any MMO period. The amount of mental gymnastics that you need to do is amazing and extremelly fun to me. I can no longer play a Druid, Chaman or Paladin as they all fell so boring to me now a days in WoW. In FF14 however, being a healer is kind of lackluster. There are literally 2 buttons on SCH for your main rotation. AST has being the most fun yet. I was crushed knowing the unique buffs from the Cards has been reworked into the simple damage buff system we have now.
I feel is really difficult for them to make healers to do more things or make them fun (like a disc priest), mostly because the class itself, a Healer, is considered only a companion rater than a protagonist.
Maybe its a cultural thing, when even in Anime/Mange we only see healers as this support class that only help you when in need, and can only purify the undead. (mostly for being priest).
Also, the fact that you can't change your build too much (like items that do more damage, and not considering penta-melding) is in itself limited for the role of doing more damage, or using damaging spell that actually do too little too late.
(sorry for grammar)
exactly my thoughts, legion disc priest was so good. i tried out shadowlands disc priest and tbh it still felt better than ffxiv healers. playing sage in ffxiv was the closest but still not enjoyable enough which is ofc fine since theres plenty people enjoying ffxiv healers and i can dps but theres a reason these discussions happen. i think one big difference that makes ffxiv healers boring is also that the healing intensity is very low unless you are in savage, if u pick healer u probably want to heal and personally all dungeons, araids and trials on normal mode have been too easy
Healers: Please fix healing.
Squeenix: So about DRG....
DRG: monkaS
My favorite role to play in an MMO is a healer. And scholar is my favorite job in this game. I absolutely adore the utility and I feel the most prepared if things go wrong to bring the instance back if things go terribly. My issue with healing in this game is that its so damage focused. Like it was said, the most optimal healing is the least healing and that.... is boring. When I heal, I want to heal. Admitting that in this game seems somehow... taboo? God forbid you don't want to spam your single damage spell the entire time and reapply dots. And if you admit that, people waste no time telling you that you should be focusing on DPS when you are not healing, as if somehow that implies you don't.
I don't know how it is in games you play, but lot of games are shifting to more active support because support role is boring as it is. FFXIV does it better than most games but it's still a lot of one button spamming.
Probably my favorite healer role in any MMO is FoMarl from PSO1 where you could do god tier healing, really good damage and utility, really good buff and debuff and your weapon skills were so good you could solo content. My other favorite is actually Raganrok Online priest because you had really strong party buffs, a teleport, really strong anti-undead spells and if you really wanted to smack something you got out the battle mace and went battle priest.
I think if I had to point out something wrong with FFXIV is that healers are not very flexible. Once you fully optimize your healing rotation there's nothing else to think about. Expert roulette I play on healer for instant queues and half the time I'm falling asleep because the dungeons are boring.
But idk what kind of game where Cure 1 spamming is the norm. I'd fall asleep.
Since unavoidable damage in XIV is so infrequent and/or low, you spend a lot of time sitting at max HP. And if you're at max HP, what's the point of using any heals just because you're tired of mashing Broil? SCH and SGE have it a bit better because you can at least pre-apply shields, but it doesn't change the fact that healing requirements to keep everybody alive are so lax in most content in XIV that there's nothing left to do but fall back on damage skills to clear the fight quicker.
The old AST cards were fun. Of course the people that constantly fished for balance screamed the loudest so now we're stuck with fishing for seals instead of balance. I miss the strategy of the old cards, it made it far more interesting than try to get three different seals.
Just consider that misshapen chair is full of his own shit. "Healing is boring" signed by a dps player. Riveting. Personally I think the current savage tier is great for healing compared to the previous one as you do have more to do. But as others have said it also relies on other people in the party remembering that their party mitigation tools exist (mainly for the feint/addle users out there) since an extra 10% mit from them is equivalent to say a sacred soil which in turn would make the shielding more effective. But yeah healing is pretty much an optimization job where you recognize how much you need and can get away with. But also since your gameplay loop is dependent on the performance of your party it can be the one with the most variance as well if we're not talking ideals. Blind progging new extremes or doing new alliance raids where everyone eats shit is definitly a fun part of it for instance.
As for lack of healers, maybe it's just people don't want the responsibility or the aformentioned mitigation situation as well as if it's PF you might be saddled with a glare mage doing their best 0% grey healing parse run where they forget regens even exist.
He's played like every class lmao he's on FF logs for all to see. Doesn't have much in current for healers, but definitely some in shb and sb, probably more before then. Probably doesn't heal as much in savage anymore because he thinks it's boring.
Most people who complain about healer classes being boring are always DPS mains. Meanwhile every healer main I've run into are still having fun, despite knowing the cons.
@@Miketation have you considered the possibility that those DPS mains used to be healer mains, and are now DPS mains because of the state of the healing role? and while im just one voice in a sea of whining bastards, i'm a healer main who is pretty fed up with how healing is seemingly turning into the 'bike with unremovable training wheels' role, so much so that i just cap tomes, clear the raid, log out. Chair might be abrasive with the way he worded his points, but people dont usually go making videos about things like this unless it's because they love it and want to see it improve. sure it's entirely possible he decided to make a video just to bitch about healing being shit, juuuust to farm the rageclicks for ad revenue, but i think it's more likely because it's a topic atm in the community, and it needs addressing because the lack of healers in PF is getting more and more apparent, and at this rate if nothing changes, PF will just outright die because noone's wanting to fill the role.
FWIW i mostly agree with Chair, we cant add more healing required because casuals wont be able to keep up and it'd mean 10 years of content needs to be rebalanced, much easier to just add complexity to the DPS side of healers. What i dont agree with him on is leaving WHM as the 'glue eater' of the role, it'd paint a target on that job's back as 'this is the class the shitters play, kick on sight' like stormblood WHM but way way worse. ideally i'd rather see all of the healers get more complexity to their DPS rotation, and if the casuals dont want to engage with that complexity, then they dont have to, because EX roulette doesnt have an enrage timer. If they feel like 'oh im only competent enough to press 1 button for my dps rotation' then they can still press that 1 button and contribute 'some damage', heck if the dev team wanted they could make 'glare spam' be 80 or even 90% of the damage of doing the 'fully optimised rotation' with potency balancing.
EG, if they were to make Glare 300 potency, and Dia 50 on cast + 30 potency per tick for 30s, that totals 350. 50 whole potency gain over 30s, so in a 10min fight you've gained 1000 potency, just over 3 whole Glares. pretty irrelevant when it comes to meeting the dps check, and so low that it's more likely you die to 'lmao crit variance' than missing those Dia's, but doing that change would mean people who want to optimise have something to optimise (keeping dot up, knowing when it's worth it to refresh vs not, etc) and the 'i dont know how to press more than 1 button' type healers can just ungabunga spam 1. i'm NOT suggesting that we actually reduce Dia and such down to this level, this is an example to show that if they added 2 or 3 more buttons, it's entirely possible to make them be balanced 'to reward the optimizers, and be mostly ignoreable by the shitters'. eg bring back fluid aura and make it a 15sec CD GCD with a potency of 330 compared to glare's 310, that is a total difference of 80 potency per minute for people to optimise.
Bring back Heavenward job complexity
not to take away from sage but I've thought it would be cool to have a primary healing target which would usually be the tank, and maybe instead of healing as you do damage have branching combos or something where you can either do a heal or a damage spell and the heal automatically goes to your set primary healing target, so you can be doing a damage rotation and then seamlessly go for your healing move when needed without having to mess around with targeting, so it's less cumbersome transitioning from dealing damage to healing it's all woven into the same combo unless some more extensive healing is needed
You can already do this using macros, either the macro will cast the heal directly on your target's target, say the boss is targeting your tanks so thats the t of your t, or by assigning parts slot, so the macro will whoever is number 2 on your party list, say theain tank is second om your party list, so the heal will go to them, even if you're already targeting the boss
@@AdachYanas This, or what I'm using is which targets whoever your mouse is currently hovering over (in party list or actual character model, both work). So you can always spot heal any party member without having to switch targets.
I mean... I use focus target for this just fine. There's a dedicated keybind for targeting your focus target, so just doing that and tabbing back to the boss is really seamless.
What got me to play Astrologian is the support style of healing it was: the point was to accurately buff the team while maintaining their health high enough, and also keeping consistent DPS. When we lost the Stormblood carding system (effects as well as the royal road action, and the way Celestial Opposition worked to expand buff times if I recall well), I felt robbed from what I enjoyed the most. I would love them to reintroduce this system, or one close to it. I know they removed it because they wanted to get rid of the randomness of the job, and yes I got angry a few times when I got three sun seals in a row, even with redraws, but that's the charm of the job. Those who don't like the random cards have already 3 other jobs to choose from, with very distinct ways of healing/shielding.
I think "auto combo" would be a bad addition to the game if applyed with general stroke, but a good addition to some classes like BLM's "Ley Lines" and "In Between the Lines" another Job that would benefit from an auto combo feature would be SMN, it has an underdeveloped kit and lot of buttons that do the same thing or get locked out until certain conditions are met having the auto combo would help the class out in the future when more spells are added.
I have been healing in mmos for 20 years, the happy medium I have found is either doing damage to heal ( like a Disc priest in wow), or a more skilled level of game play taking your own health to heal others. (Blood healer in The Secret World.) Just being a healer with no dps, or healing little and dps alot, seems to be the extremes of the same "boring" result.
For the past two expansions with how healers have been changed many players have fell off of healing, some new players came into the role including a lot of more casual players attracted to the simpler playstyle. But I think the population has been trending negatively so when they introduce more intensive damage in raids (things that casual players aren't as good at or they're just not even doing raids just dungeons/NMs) and that requires more healing AND mitigation from the rest of the party but DPS don't even have feint on their bars.
I know I stopped maining healer in shadowbringers and Eden did not justify the bloated healing kits at all for the incoming damage, in PF this tier there are a ton of instances where only the healers are providing mitigation for raidwides which has to be frustrating as hell
And now imagine being a healer where your co-healer decides to focus on damage. Not mitigating and healing as little as possible. And you STILL out damage them while also having to healer more because they don't. It would actually be better for there to a class that just passively heals everyone in the party instead of having someone who refuses to heal. Just so those players have something to play and not hold back the party.
It can be the most boring thing ever, have the job have a single spell on the hotbar that does damage and everything else is a passive skill that helps the rest of your team survive
Sage main here, the only time i have fun is saving an awful team from the brink of a wipe. that's crazy fun, but most of the time i'm just spamming my aoe attack while throwing shields on the tank sometimes
I really miss 1st gen Astro. I loved the chaos felt like I was predicting my teammates future. Oh thank you need extra defense take this tree card. Dragoon you’re about to go crazy here’s so extra dmg.
I loved setting up good spreads and playing them.
I totally agree that the healing players in ff tend to enjoy dpsing more than "staring at health bars", so the style of healing in this game wont change drastically- so it just seems like the problem is that they want a more complex dps rotation whilst healing? am i interpretting this all right?
Resto druids in WoW are such well designed classes, mechanically. Their kit interacts with itself in so many ways, they are truly a HoT based healer and by comparison it makes healer kits in 14 look very lazy. But 14 chose a direction to go in with the design of the game and, a few years ago, went pedal to the metal in that direction and now it is far too late to go back. The benefit of what they have now is that balance is child's play. When was the last time there was a healing spell being tuned in the patch notes? Genuinely curious.
I miss how Mistweavers were when they first came out, and that channeled healing spell that they had. That was so nice.
Cleric stance needs to come back. For harder content just stick to healing for easier content put on cleric stance and burn thru everything. Of course you get those who complain about whether or not the healer should have cleric on or not but...that is their problem. The dps and tanks have been ignoring mechanics for ages let healers have their cleric stance.
There should be a healer job that converts overhealing into damage on the enemy which the target is targeting. It'd be a unique playstyle.
A melee healer would be fun too.
I mostly play pure healer both whm/ast with some sge on the side. I enjoy healing in general in ffxiv with most of my focus on savage raids. The process from progging to optimizing the fight is so much fun including coordination with your cohealer. A big however, although I love it in a static setting currently in pf it is not fun for me. The main reasons are that 1) mitigations are lacking 2) people tend to blame the healer although its not their fault said person(s) died 3) expecting healers to be near perfect at the fight and just following them around rather than doing the mechanics themselves, for example I didn't want the party to mark me in a pf p6s party simply because I have a hard time seeing my number for the pathogenic cells mechanic with the marker in the way. I kindly explained why and got kicked. In those scenarios being a healer is so ungrateful and you get the feeling of unrealistic expectations that you alone shall carry the slack of others and if you don't you get flamed which all in all is not a good feeling. And this tier in perticular compared to asphodelos has a higher emphasis on healing since raid wides hit very hard and you also have bleeds/poison attached to tbs and certain raid wides that if left unmitigated will just spell disaster. Who is the usual suspect to point fingers at if people die? You guessed it, the healers. I think this frustration has resulted in lack of healers more so than the jobs itself not being interesting enough. But please for the love of jebus do not make healing checks or damage intake easier to handle, healingwise this tier was a big step in the right direction.
Healers having the majority of the fight being dpsing need more options for that gameplay that's really all there is to it.
I totally agree with this video. As a healer main from various MMOs (WoW, SWTOR, Rift, And now ff14), 14s is the only one where i feel that the more optimized you get, the worse it feels because your time is spent doing damage and the damage portion is just...not...engaging. you dont need to add a ton of options, just enough to maje it feel anlittle better and flavor the class more.
SCH just needs a second DoT (Miasma would work) and an oGCD damage ability not tied to Aetherflow..
WHM can have its lilly system allow an offensive option for building the Blood Lilly so it doesnt feel like "ima spend this, but it feels shit to"
AST is able to have a skill that "stacks" and then releases when you spam, leaning into their management playstyle.
SGE just needs some lower CDs on their damage abilities and maybe a CD to do a "kardia"-like effect to the party.
i do think Misshapen may be too tilted, but he isn't wrong st the core of his point. If they want healers to damage often, make that side engaging. i love healing myself and i find it fun.....when people are fucking up and I have stuff to do. if the run is too smooth, i do start to check out.
6.2 has been a FANTASTIC patch for healing. The EX’s consistent damage and frantic movement makes it really hard to rest on your laurels and the rework of tankbusters in Savage means that I’ve had to actually pay attention to my tanks in a way I haven’t had to for some time.
I don’t need a more robust damage rotation if the healing itself feels like I’m pushing my kit to its limit.
Ikr! I've been playing tank and it's amazing to me that I can mit a TB with ~50% mit and the DoT still nearly kills me every tick. I really want to do this tier on healer after playing Tank in it.
the issue is that doesnt affect the other content, and 14s uniquely powerful in that area. Old raids and content doesnt become obsolete, so design has to matter there as wellm I like that the new raids are engaging healer wise, but if i go back to, as a random example, a synced Coils of Bahamut? the design issues show.
See that's the issue. The fight design you spoke of have nothing to do with healing. You learn the fight and know where to heal and shield. Damage is predictable. The hand rarely changes anything up. Raid wide damage or tank busters are completely predictable meaning you'll be healing for those little bursts and then pressing your one dps button for the other 90% of the fight.
I miss old Ast everyday 😔. This video made really good points and the reality made me sad.
I enjoyed healing in Wildstar it was challenging but rewarding imo.
I've been so used to the toxic LFD in WoW that I never wanted to learn how to heal or tank. I didn't want the one to get yelled at or kicked from the party. FFXIV, you let people know you're new to healing and they actually are helpful. I'm still nervous to heal in FFXIV but not as much as when I played WoW. So yeah, if healing is "boring" or there is nothing to do, that's what I'm here for while I'm learning. Anxiety is a bitch.
I tried to play FFXIV as a long term 14 year wow player who always mained a healer and knew that I wanted to play a healer. FFXIV had a lot of incentives that almost motivated to slog through miles of drying paint. It had drop dead gorgeous visuals. I really like how jobs were divided up. Over the course of a month of leveling was incredibly boring. There was no incentive to play with other players out in the world. If I did nothing but dungeons I could play a tank, I could play a dps or I could play a role that is dps the majority of the time and a healer a minority of the time. So if I want to play as someone who's duties are restore health the vast majority of the time, then there is no role availble for me to do. If I wanted to deal damage, I would level a damage dealer. The healer fantasy has been forsaken in FFXIV. If there is no healing atm? Damage doen't have to be the only alternative choice. Mmos used to have a hidden 4th role called support that would give strong utility abilities, like increased movement, reduced threat/enminty, temporary immunity to slows. It doesn't have to be just healing OR damage. Also how hard would it really be to have any boss get a buff that pulses .01% of it's health as damage per second towards the raid. Why the FFXIV devs wo't do that is lost on me. This is why as an actual healer enthusiast of 14 years who wanted to pIay a healer in FFXIV choose to not continue playing FFXIV. TLDR: Healing in FFXIV is not available most of the time and overall not fun.
I remember when I was healing in HW, it was the first time I fell asleep in a dungeon out of boredom.
That has never happened before.
yeah me too, i started to hate healing because i litterally fall asleep everytime, at least with sage it's LESS boring (but still boring), and this is very frustrating because i love healer classes/jobs in every game
@@emanueledimatteo2052 Me too, healer is my usual go-to class. But I must say I got major respect for raid healers in this game, that stuff is crazy
Dungeons are snoozefest on any job frankly.
Play astro. You won't fall asleep. Job is very busy and requires you to pay attention cause of cards.
@@slimfastsubaru2043 all your cards do the same thing and seals only affect astrodyne. 5% damage on the lowest dps in the game is pretty negligible if dps checks are not on the table
most jobs in this game, regardless of role, have become a snoozefest and boss design is the only thing keeping half the raiders subbed.
Inqicar in rift was great as a healer/dps hybrid(which was actually a mix of dps/tank but wound up being pretty solid dps and great group heals), and later on defiler was pretty interesting too, decent dps and privided the best mitigation and strong burst single target heals) defiler kinda became an issue though in the way it provided huge mitigation for select players and kinda made it required and balanced around.
There should definitely be another damage spell for lilies.
Second comment: WoW healing seems ok in terms of variety, Shaman has aoe healing, Druid has HoT healing, Priest is raw healing, - comparatively AST is HoT heavy (potentially), but it’s always: Pure heal “cure/benefic 2”, sch/sage “resource heal”
It kind of depends on your group composition. Obviously, healing a DRK is going to be much more challenging and stress inducing than a WAR, especially if you are a shield healer like SGE and need to use resources to use big heals. Constantly reapplying shields doesn’t always work out. It also depends on how high the groups dps is. If you group spends 3 minutes per pack, you are going to run out of resources and the tank will run out of mitigation, which will make healing more difficult. Even the boss/dungeon has an effect. Tower of Zot, for example, is much more difficult to heal in my experience than say Tower of Babil.
Give WHM more DPS options. Quake and Tornado would be badass and appropriate additions.
Bring back SCH's DoT mage identity, maybe even steal from old SMN, it's not using them anymore.
Bring back an evolved version of AST's old Cards, because there IS a resolution for Balance fishing, adapt Minor Arcana to use "dud" cards. Bring back Royal Road too, it's better than Divination.
Bring SGE up to the standard of the other healers.
I know we're not DPS jobs, but if you're going to throw content at us where we're DPSing the vast majority of the time (which is like 70% DPS, 30% healing in my experience), give us /something/. Ideally I want to heal and will hope that future content has more healing mechanics to make the experience engaging, but a better DPS set will resolve this for all existing content. Bonus: it won't make the jobs harder for anybody new to them because DPS is optional for the vast majority of content and the devs already have strict measures about harassing people for how they play and heck, even if they DPS badly, hardly anybody will complain, I think the main thing that would cause complaint is if they healer is just twiddling their thumbs or forgets to heal.
DPS skills were scapegoated for "healers not healing" like Cleric Stance was in 2.0 but now DPSing on a healer is smooth brain and if anything "healers forgetting to heal" is worse than it was, maybe it's time to accept that in a game where your performance is measured by your party's overall DPS, all roles will be trying to maximise their DPS and it means we get healers who forget to heal, this is a drawback in the game's core design and not something you'll fix, but you can alleviate it.
HECK, if anything having a little more complexity would put them a little more on their toes to pay attention. I've had a few times where even I, an attentive and decent enough healer with years of maining a healer, have gone "whoops, I forgot I was a healer for a second there" as has my regular co-healer, which I didn't used to do when the state of healing was better, because it's so easy to tunnel vision when you're repeatedly pressing the same button over and over and over and over and over and over.
And heck, better learning tools might help your fledgling and unconfident healers too, like a Hall of the Apprentice and a Dungeon Log to practice what you learn in a real party. Plus we have better NPC AI to provide a better experience for something like a Hall of the Apprentice. It's no longer 2.0 where we have a natural progression that teaches people their role, especially say, somebody who's not a healer picks up SGE at 70 or uses a jump potion. So this is another more practical way of aiding the problem (especially if there's an incentive for completion and prompt for people who pick up a high level job or use a jump potion). And then people can be rewarded for getting good at healing, because then they'll have more to do once they have and there's a higher skill ceiling to reach for, instead of being punished with monotony and boredom.
I got so sad when I saw they removed nocturnal sect, I felt like Astrologian however sort of gimped a version it was, at least provided me with a "varied" playstyle depending on what healer I ended up queued with. I could fill whichever was needed, it felt if not optimal, at least useful and fun.
the problem with SGE vs SCH is that your healing with Kardia does not scale with your damage output. DOTs and AOEs do not have any more healing output. You simply just heal a little bit every time you cast a spell, not every time the spell deals damage.
Coming from WoW, I don't like how much DPS you need to do as a healer in FFXIV. Like I choose the role because I wanted to heal and if wanted to do damage, i'd be a dps.
Healer becomes more of a healer the later you go, or if you want ask the tank to pull more packs in earlier dungeons so you have no choice but to spam all the heals
This is how I feel about it. I like "whack a mole extreme" as a healer, where I'm constantly engaged with my teams health bars during a fight.
Not to say the FF design is "wrong", but it's just "dps with a couple healing spells" which isn't for me
It's more to do with damage being predictable and almost entirely managed by preplanned oGCD usage unless someone screws up. The better your groups, the most of a bore it is.
@Sonic Mobian I mean, good for you, but that doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. Or rather, was created in Shadowbringers. Prior to that, those who wanted a basic healer had WHM, and everyone who wanted something more had AST and SCH. Now everyone's on a 1 button rotation and AST's card system is as thoughtless as anything else, and the amount of healing required in content doesn't make up for that exchange unless one of the tanks or dps is drunk. I haven't found healing this dull since RO, but even that had more impactful utility options.
One big difference is people have to level healers on their own here, whereas in wow every healer spec has a DPS spec to level and do solo content with.
I'd really like to see more buff skills like Astro in the past. I intended to main Sage this expansion, and while it's fun when trying new stuff or in dungeons with a new group, the lack of variety forced me back to Ninja which I find way more interesting when things are going well.
If they gave healers buff skills to individual party members it'd still feel similar to healing skills (fits the role of healer) and doesn't require targeting mobs but could add some much needed variety
I've been a WHM main since the beginning, so I've seen all the positives and negatives that have come with the Job. Personally I think for the average player that wants to Heal its the most satisfying because you actively get to see all your big heals topping off the party. As far as "Healing" goes in general, I do wish there was a bit more to do as a "Support" not DPS. I play Healer to be a Support Role. I don't like it that people believe that you should only play by doing the bare minimum healing possible and everything else should go into DPS. I don't necessarily need there to be constant Healing to have fun on my Job since a big part of the Role is to manage the fight as a whole, anticipate what's coming, and make-up for mistakes that happen. As a Healer I have always had the mindset of extending the encounter is far more important than my own DPS. This tunnel vision people get that you should only throw out OCD's, never hard cast or top people off makes no sense to me. (Why wipe when you can keep going?) Completing the encounter is my goal, not weaving in a couple more Glare's at the expense of someone dying. If there is to be a solution outside of completely revamping encounters, I would like to add in more periodical Buffing to my party and Debuffing to Bosses. The Debuffing could be weaved into a DPS rotation and the buffing should be timed with DPS bursts and so on. The good thing about this is the extra DPS or Mitigation added can be reflected in a Bosses or mobs HP or damage output without having to change how encounters work currently in FFXIV. So a "good" Healer will need to manage the group, keep uptime on "new" buffs/debuffs, and when that is all done get in some dps.
This. I love this. I’ve wanted a combo system for healers, like if you do this attack into this attack you’ll gain an X heal buff or you’ll grant an X shield.
This gives healers more options and combos but rewards them with a support buff for doing said combos WHILE still doing damage to the boss (as we’re required to do anyways)
I'm not PERFECTLY aligned with you here, but I think I agree with most of this.
Making everything about DPS in this game is what's killing this game and healing in it, not the other way around.
But my personal view is we have 4 healers, why not do like tanks do and have 4 actual variations of them? There's no reason, with 4 healing Jobs, that they all have essentially the same DPS rotation. Like the guy in the video said, we can leave WHM as it is today, but why do the other three have a carbon copy of their DPS kit when no other role (Tanks, Melee, Ranged, Casters) has all members with essentially the same DPS rotation...?
We could actually please everyone at once just flexing the healers we already have.
Big same on missing old AST. It was my favorite healer through Stormblood. I mostly play WHM now for the Holy stun utility and array of "oh crap" buttons.
As a casual healer, I like Astrologian and Sage. I get very confused playing Scholar, like I don't even know what half the spells do they have so many and with so many descriptions lol. Leveling or just dpsing is kinda boring because you have like 3 spells in total, In WoW you at least have most of the base spells between specs and some unique ones for damage and healing
the other najor thing is in WoW, healing was frequently needed and high damage intake is common, making healing required. i dont mind 14s focus in healer DPs, but i think that should come with a focus on making the damage part more fun. it wouldn't take a lot of additions to do it, as SCH can get a second dot to manage and possibly an OGCD not attached to Aetherflow. Astro can have a couple burst skills. WHM could have a high damage hit and some way to build it up. SGE is the closest to feel good, with CDs needing an adjustment if anything.
in short: if you are going to focus on healer damage, then its needed to make it at least a little interactive. the 1 spam, 1 dot thing isnt fun and thisbis coming from a healer main. i like sage because i can get into its damage sometimes at least
How on earth does scholar confuse you but not sage? Their toolkits are practically identical. There I think six skills between the two that don’t have direct equivalents
Scholar actions are 90% same as the Sage.
You can easily swap between them no problem.
So far scholar isnt a problem for me
@@RaddyC they are indentical, but not the same. Their use cases and how you manage them are different. For example, pet placement can make a huge difference for SCH, something SGe doesnt have ti do. SGE gains a steadiky regen resource whike SCH gets theirs in a burst. SCH shields tend to do more, but their direct healing is reliant on their Aetherflow in most cases.
SGE is easier SCH, tbh, in terms if what they want to do. SCH has fringe things to learn and misusing some skills can be punishing, such as ths fairy munch, which can lead to confusion at first.
That being said, i do think their similarities are a little too close together. I wouldn't mind them being more experiemental with it, but indont see it happening. But i digress, the main point is, despite similarities, SCH and SGE still play very differently.
Stormblood was the perfect balance. They got rid of the clunk but didn't make them brain dead. They should have just stopped there.
I love healing in MMOs, it's my favourite way to play by far, a role most people hate because it involves covering other people's mistakes, however I love being the savior. However I barely heal in FFXIV. Even the damage I do is mostly 1 button. Toss an OGCD on someone that got hit and keep spamming glare/broil etc. Healers have a big toolkits and it's almost never used. It's incredibly, mind numbingly boring. Even crappy MMOs let healers do more.
Healing isn't boring (imo), but I absolutely felt un-needed as a healer when tanks could just cheese everything. Healing is a very delicate balance and it is HARD when tanks and DPS don't mit, and the more we have to push out heals the less we can DPS. I bring ethers for prog because I want to enable my team to live long enough to see mechs and learn them, and once we're smooth I can swap to DPS pots.
I will say, as much as it forces me to focus more on when I'm healing and where I'm DPSing, the mix of mechanics in this tier are perfect for forcing everyone to do their role and PARTICIPATE in the team's success. It's absolutely brilliant, and fun to boot! I might be crying in pain but I'm enjoying every moment haha.
Side note; I don't even wanna watch the referenced video or this one... I am that tired of all the vitriol around healing that's been happening lately. But I also come from the perspective of a tested and at least decent healer. There are ABSOLUTELY shit healers out there. I hate PUGing a shield healer because it's actually 50/50 on if I get someone who knows how to heal.
I started with playing Scholar. I super agree. Now for most activities I'd rather wait in DPS queues as Summoner than play healer. Especially because it's boring AND it comes with additional responsibility. Easier and more fun to just DPS
I really enjoy scholar still. The only annoyance is when I galvanize a big ass shield and then a sage overrides it with a tiny dick shield. Makes me sad every time. And it's not that we're doing it at the same time majority of the time. I think it's mostly sages not realizing they're gonna override it, cause you'd think the better shield would stay. But no.. Unless something has changed recently, I've been gone for about a month XD That's my only gripe so far. Though I don't do hard content with healer.
I’m about 4 minutes into this video, and before I continue I just want to say that I miss Selene.
I would like to think the entire healing community is just humble bragging about wanting to do more healing... but I've come to terms with the fact that I'm probably just bad XD
I play all healing classes and I started with Sch and still play it despite sage. I think self healing on tanks is killing healers. It feels like I’m useless sometimes
I don't think the solution to healing being boring is to just add more DPS buttons. Honestly, that just seems baffling to me as a suggestion. Why would I want to play a healer if the optimal play is to... Not heal?
Like, if I wanna be the frontman of the party and control the aggro, I play a tank, right? And if I want a complex DPS rotation and to just do demej, I play a goddamn DPS. So if I want to HEAL...
I think EX4 was a good showcase of how to fix this problem: Simply add more difficult and constant heal checks that actually give you a reason to use every damn last bit of healing you got. Every healer I've played with that I asked what they think of that fight say that they love it because it forces them to heal the party a shitton, since the boss just keeps trying to beat your head in with unavoidable damage.
Just change the fight design a little bit and see how it goes, I say. Welcome change of pace at any rate.
I dived into healing because I liked how offensive oriented they were in SB. Then when they took away so many damage options in ShB (rip miasma II), healing became nothing but a chore. I even leveled a healer just to make queue times get better.
Auto combo would also prevent gnb from being able to make the decision of;
do I keep doing full rotation to cartridges and rush the last bit of health on the enemy, or do I switch to just doing the first two of my combo for the immaculate health Regen because the healer just bit it.
I'm sure there are other examples of places auto combo could be bad. But currently gnb is the role I've put the most time into on difficult content.
You wouldnt be forced to use it and it would be a massive boon for controller players
I really miss the way DoT-mage Summoner and Scholar used to work. I'd play that version of those jobs a lot more than their current iterations.
This! Used to play smn before endwalker because I loved the DoT management and the rotation. I found it fun. Now? I won’t touch it unless I want to take a nap.
@@tranquilelm5809 There was a similar aspect to Scholar before 5.0 too, with plenty of heals to spare as well as the fairy. Anyway, I understand the previous Summoner wasn't everyone's cup of tea especially with janky pet AI but the way it played more like a priority system was very charming and refreshing in the land of 1-2-3s.
@@Rewwgh absolutely agree. I used to play scholar back before heavensward and although i don’t remember much about how it played I do remember I really enjoyed having shadowflare