Roger Gracie is the greatest jiu jitsu competitor of all time | John Danaher and Lex Fridman
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- Опубліковано 9 тра 2021
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • John Danaher: The Path...
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GUEST BIO:
John Danaher is a coach, scholar, and educator of jiu jitsu, submission grappling, judo, MMA, and the martial arts.
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Just a couple of Bond villains chatting about BJJ 😂
lmao
🤣CRAZY CORRECT!!!
omoplata of comments my guy !
"Come, come Mr. Bond..."
Best. Lore.
I have to disagree. I don't see a white cat on any of their laps.
"fascinating question ill come back to it" fucking boss lol
It would've been boss if he remembered it and came back to it but Lex had to ask it again
Lex: Asks a question
John aka Hannibal: Rates the question first as good or excellent
This is gold.
"Fascinating question, I'll come back to it." xD
Watching most Roger matches you knew exactly what his game plan was going to be, his opponents knew, their coaches knew, and yet almost no one could stop him from doing it.
Khabib is the modern version of that
@@colinb8332 UNSTOPPABLE
@@colinb8332 well the mma version, would love to see khabib do some submission underground matches and see how he fares
sakuraba #1 Gracie Hunter !
@@charmander777 OK
Life goal: asking a question to John Danaher and before he answers it he rates it as exellent
Excellent question let me get back to that
He is 100% correct Roger is elite of the elites with very basic simple high-percentage moves I had the pleasure of rolling with him once in my life and I still remember his words still to this day he said Jiu-Jitsu is not supposed to be hard
Can you explain to me why he’s considered greater than the other Gracie’s?
@@OffDutyDad HIS DISCIPLINE TO FUNDAMENTALS ARE SECOND TO NONE!! All that kguard x-guard z-guard never see him going to any of those things and the guy's legs was impenetrable to me
@@OffDutyDad keep in mind they're not talking mma, Rickson had 11 mma fights and got 6 wins in two tournaments. Roger wasn't incredible in mma, while a guy like Charles Oliveira who isn't highly accomplished in bjj competition has the most submissions in the UFC (14) which puts him submitting in 50% of his fights while Gilbert Burns is highly decorated but only has 4 submissions out of 16 fights. Garry Tonon, John's student, tapped out Gilbert and Garry is only a featherweight. I would say in mma currently the tie for best Gracie is between Neiman and Kron. Roger is the best bjj competitor, don't get me wrong, coming out of retirement and beating Buchecha helped solidify that. I'm simply saying in regards to mma you have others that made it translate better.
@@OffDutyDad also when bjj competition was in it's infancy Rickson was the Roger of his time. He never lost, and would tell the best in the world in 2 minutes I'll tap you out by armbar, and regardless of the lead up successfully be able to hit an armbar at that mark. One forgotten Gracie who Rickson, Royce, and the rest will agree was the best and admit beat them up was Rolls Gracie. He competed in grappling competitions such as sambo where he won gold twice and men's freestyle wrestling he got gold in the -68 kg division. The fact that he was about 155 pounds and beat up anyone says something about his skill. He died in a hang gliding accident, and only had 6 black belt students but those black belts went on to be the best teachers in the game with affiliate gyms worldwide.
@@OffDutyDad The real reason is because he has the most world and ADCC titles by far … he’s a 10 time world champion with multiple ADCC Gold medals along with plenty of others.
"just go out there and win by submission" - Rogers mindset. And why he's the best.
didn’t know you were a bjj fan!! big fan of your channel brah yeeeww!
Winning by submission mentality is only applicable when you're among the most talented of your completion peers. The smart way to go about it is to play the points game and take advantage of any submission opportunity if it presents itself.
We need a 3 hour JRE podcast with Joe, Lex, Eddie Bravo, and John Danaher just talking the best players about and re-watching the best matches in Jui Jitsu history.
god no i dont want Eddie in another joe rogan podcast.
@@dangerdjk Eddie is very good when they're talking about martial arts and nothing else 😹
second that
@@lucasjames8281 but he will talk over everyone. lol ... look at the interview and after with rickson, eddie wouldn't stop talking and then cutting him off, rickson didn't even seem interested. I like eddie but i do find sometimes he tries to dominate the conversation
Eddie would turn it into a flat earth conversation in 15 min
So great to have an academic in the sport of jiu jitsu who can articulate so much about the sport so well. Talented athletes don't always turn into the most talented coaches and teachers. Plenty of room in this sport for the less than athletic thinker who is willing to study the sport and work hard. Many could become great assets to the jiu jitsu community.
His explanation of Roger’s sophistication of basic elements reminds me of John Smith’s single leg takedown or Jordan Burrough’s double leg. Basic techniques mastered to a level of perfect application that, even knowing ahead of time, opponents were still unable to prevent their successful use.
John smith the most npc name I’ve ever heard
Of course Roger Gracie is the G.O.A.T. , I've been saying this for years... Fundamentals is the key to every sport
Love this podcast. Lex asks all the right questions.
His assertion that “Jiu Jitsu” is the broadest term and that “grappling” is a subset of Jiu Jitsu, is backwards.
“Grappling” basically means to hook or hold, ie to grab or grasp, as opposed to striking.
Wrestling (Greco-Roman, freestyle, submission etc), as well as Judo, Sambo, Jiu Jitsu etc are all forms of grappling.
That's what my thought was too.
Maybe he meant it in the specific context of jiujitsu
I’m sure Danaher has forgotten more about Grappling & JiuJitsu alone, than you’ll ever know. The Man is literally one of the Top GOAT Coaches and an Absolute Wizard Mastermind.
@@Ricatonniisasavage8854 And still Aleksandr Karelin is the best grappler of all time.
I wonder if Roger Gracie could beat Mijain Lopez or Teddy Riner.
This interview never goes Old ever could listen to it on replay John is beyond Wise in everything he is possibly the most thought out well spoken person ever it’s incredible how he is so Matter of Fact Doesn’t Try to Push Anything for a story it’s like he he’s asked himself your question multiple times an had the time to break it down before he opens his mouth #Legend
I think the difference between the dds and Rogers style is that Roger gets the dominant position and never gives it up in his process of getting the submission. The opponent is completely immbolisied. Terere said that he could only move his eyelids when mounted by Roger. Danaher here seems to advocate giving up a degree of control in pursuit of the submission and being good enough to escape and return back to a dominant position if it doesn't work out.
It comes down to the particular techniques used. Some subs require a big change in body positioning while others can occur from within the position you were already in
Also it depends on the position. You can hold dominate position in mount for a long time even while pursuing submissions. On the other hand (or should I say foot), the leg lock game a lot more fluid. The nature of ashi garami is often more about dynamic attacking than it is about entangling-at least at the elite levels of the sport.
Based on most of Danahers interviews, he states control then submission. But most of his athletes apart from Gordan Ryan are much more opportunistic and will go for submissions before they have full control repeatedly till they get the submission.
I've attended seminars conducted by the likes of Danaher, Gordon Ryan (same one as Danaher), Marcelo Garcia, Renzo Gracie, Roger Gracie, Relson Gracie, Clark Gracie, Kurt Osiander, and Jeremy Horn (the latter was lesser known MMA fighter to younger generations, but he was simply great). I still use techniques I learned from all of these instructors/competitors, but Roger's was the best. Rarely can you pick up small and meaningful details in a seminar, such as exact hand placement for a choke or exact positioning to maintain control on top. (Also have to say Renzo's seminar was awesome; it's obvious that teaching at Renzo's academy-- by Renzo, Danaher, or anyone else-- is amazing.)
This is an outstanding interview.
Still a fan - not just for being the best fighter of my day but your attitude of approach in life ... set u miles above 2 me.
Inspiring next level!!!!!
I met H Gracie in Vegas at the Tropicana with my dad in the elevator. I didn’t even recognize him, he had pink shorts sandals and a button up. Once I realized who he was, his character as a fighter in my option just blew through the roof.
Most bad @ss fighter I’ve ever watched was the nicest non recognizable guy .... bossssss!
Heather Gracie? 🤔
@@JeffLiwag R/Hoger Gracie. The Portuguese R is pronounced like the English H.
@@leomiller2291 sure but they said "H Gracie." I'm quite familiar with Brazilian Portuguese, thank you 🙏🏽
Lucky enough that Roger to be my instructors instructor in the UK, did many seminars and promotion days with not only Roger but his dad Muricio both their Jui jitsu and explanation of details are superb
Nobody ever Tapped Roger Gracie, he was the strongest mind ever in BJJ for his generation.
The 1st Buchecha Hoger match with that nasty arm bar was a draw but a unofficial lose to many
And other generations
Roger Gracie uses No fancy stuff but schooled the top guys with basics. Respect
People saying Gordon Ryan is the GOAT are Zoomers who have been getting caught up in the hype and have only been doing BJJ for a couple of years. Gordo is good and could one day be the GOAT in no-gi, but he'll never be the overall GOAT in BJJ.
Roger did it all in both the gi AND no-gi for years and beat literally some of the greatest BJJ athletes of all time.
The very best dudes Gordon beat ( e.g. Cyborg, Xande, ) Roger not only beat them too, he did it when they were younger and in their primes. He also tapped Xande out 3 times. Gordon couldn't manage that. And to top that off, Roger beat guys like Saulo Riberio and Marcelo at their peaks too.
If Gordo's own coach is saying Roger is the GOAT, then that should settle it.
He says Roger is BJJ goat.. but in other interviews he says Gordan is the best no gi/grappler of all time. Better than Roger
@@highmountaintrader Which I don't really understand, because Gordon has competed mostly in BJJ tournaments or tournaments with rulesets incredibly close to those of BJJ. I get John has got a bias, but like John said Roger did it best in gi, no-gi, MMA, and came out of retirement to beat the young lion who was the best of his generation.
You have to base GOAT not just on talent but what someone achieves. And right now, Gordo hasn't accomplished half of what Roger has. Just my opinion of course.
People saying Roger Gracie is GOAT are millenials. Aleksandr Karelin is the GOAT in grappling. Could nowadays Roger Gracie Gracie beat Mijain Lopez or Teddy Riner the GOATs of Grappling of our lifetime.
Anybody else get stoned while listening to John and realize he's an actual, real-world sensei?
Daneher is the most astute expert on BJJ. Hands down.
I’d venture to say that it’s more than just bjj
@@willw.1466 if that is your claim , the burden of proof is on you 🙂
@@willw.1466 .
@07:32 Lex reads my mind....I’ve been thinking to myself for YEARS: “I wanna know what details Professor Roger is doing but his kimono is in the way!”....thank you Lex...now interview him!!! 🙏🏽🤣
Roger Gracie spent a lot of time at the Budokwai judo club when first in London working with guys of my era like Ray Stephens and Paul Ajala. This was early 2000s There was very little BJJ in the UK at that time. When I see his fights I see their influence in his standing game but also in the directness of his ground game. Very heavy top positional play in his passing to control and then submission. There's very little fancy technique, just "simple" grinding pressure. Off his back he's excellent too of course but it's his pressure and dominance of "position before submission" as Danaher says that really shines through.
Learned my ezecial choke from him, finish people way above my level with this over and over again.
You could say Mariano Rivera was also basic. Dude threw one pitch but was the best reliever ever.
That’s because he was cutting the ball
That's a really good example
Great example.
J J Mariano has lost games this guy has only lost in competition once by points plus he has never been submitted since he was a blue belt check his record😉
@@jstar6543 Miss the point much?
But has Roger competed while on DMT?
Lol
Enlighten me 🤔 I never heard about this!!
Effective BJJ is simple. Simple doesn't mean easy though. RG is the BJJ GOAT and he took that to the extreme, he refined BJJ fundamentals his whole career and still does today as a professor. You don't need fancy jiu-jitsu to win. You need effective jiu-jitsu.
That’s hilarious that the interview just ends without talking about the microwave with Roger does The details of his simple movements🤣😅😂
I thought Danaher only wore rash guards which was a little weird for me. Glad to see it isn’t the case.
Silly boy, he's wearing one under that shirt
Stay ready
8 of 8 in ADCC 2005 his weight class and absolute.
BEAST.
Can't forget about Rickson though. Wish we could've seen him compete more but the internet didn't exist yet. Would've loved to see more of his matches.
Helio Gracie himself said Ricksons record is made up
@@Hhhlll7778 Yes but the stories are real. Example: when he rolled with people, he would start in a choke or hold, escape the choke or hold and submit his opponent with the same move. All the time, black belts etc
Lex to John Danaher "it's almost indescribable." Has he met John before?!? 😂
nothing more terrifying than danaher smiling
And Stephen Segal dominated the Self-defense category. That’s why Roger Gracie didn’t win that one.
Lol
Is Stephen Segal related to Steven Seagal ? 🙂
@@THEREALZENFORCE excellent question, in John danaher voice
Hopefully I can one day afford to have John write my autobiography. He has a great vocabulary an in depth descriptions. He can just freestyle it and I’m tell him if he forgets any of the script just think of roger gracie.
Where is his rash guard!
thats how you know this is an imposter.
Thats his dress rash guard
I completely agree with him. Even Marcelo Garcia said Roger was the best and better than him and Marcelo is arguably the best of all time.
Marcelo is still My 🐐 and arguably The People’s 🐐 too!
With all due respect, Roger Gracie was
also a formidable 6’4” monster of a man. Not your typical sized practitioner. When I think of the greatest of all time, it is Marcelo Garcia. An average sized man that competed at both Gi/no gi at the highest level against all weight classes. Although skill for skill, RG was second to none.
Didn't Roger beat Marcelo?
Agree Marcelo is right up there! Much smaller than Roger
Marcelo is the GOAT
Marcelo looks average until you get to the man’s quads. Dude was built like an NFL running back from the waist down.
Mahammed Aly, Buchecha, Jacare, Felipe Pena, Nicholas Meregali, Erberth Santos are quite monstrous themselves and they aren't as dominant as he was.
He is utterly skillful. Even against smaller folks. Check how Mahammed Aly struggle against Musumeci. And its not like he was unbeatable either, as he did lose matches.
So Roger is basically Obi wan then, no flashy bullshit, just complete mastery of the core principles 🤔🔥
No rashguard, damn John.
I may be showing my BJJ ignorance here but I'm new to MMA so can I ask where the Gracie family first name initial thing come from is it a Brazilian thing a Portuguese thing or just a family name thing the R pronounced like an H I find it fascinating
Not a Gracie thing. In Portuguese, ‘r’s sound like ‘h’s. Also, the letter ‘i’ is pronounced: “eeee”. Just a Different language. Simple as that. I’m Brazilian. My name Robert is pronounced ‘Hobert’ (sort of) in Portuguese.
it actually new info for me that grappling
i thought that grappling is the big umbrella (the main art) for wrestling ,jiu jitsu ,judo
but now it is just a part of jiu jitsu
so i you know please classify for me what is original root for all those arts?
Simply badass! I’d love to study under Rodger!
I keep waiting for that day when John does a Dr Evil "One million dollars.."
😂 Got em.
What about Lex Luther?
Grappling is a bigger classification beyond BJJ. Wrestling (endless variations), CACC, shoot, sambo, all of the early European, Asian, and African grappling styles. Not just a subset of BJJ.
“Looking for the perfect victory rather than looking for the victory that takes the least skill and effort”
Gordon Ryan was inspired by Roger Gracie. Roger also always used very basic moves, but mastered them to 150% proficiency to crush opposition. Gordon Ryan nowadays basically does the exact same
I don't think all the leg entanglements, more complex guards and transitions that follow are very basic, considering they aren't really taught to beginners, depending on your gym I guess.
Roger uses all moves that you learn in the first 3-6 months of starting.
Did he really just put roger over rickson?
Rickson 100% bad ass.
Rickson is the same dude who wouldn't fight sakuraba and couldn't teach his son to get past a head post
@@funfun4807 didn't fight sakuraba probably bc of money. And Kron is a legit Jiu jitsu fighter.
@@tclass99 what you said!
yes
Hes saying that because Roger Gracie submitted Crag Jones under 5 minutes in a closed sparring once in his gym, can ask him.
No Gi btw
Really? Wow
Found out my coach trained with and competed against tiger Gracie in the Rickson Gracie cup and wasn’t submitted and even placed in that competition
Marcelo Garcia is the Kelly Slater jiujitsu in terms of his flow his artistry is beauty to watch in the way took out Cheyenne super heavy weight Champions
When he first came on the scene it was a whole New World re wrote the script
Even he says roger Gracie though but god I love Garcia what a beast!!
I disagree that grappling is only about no-gi. That might be true in the current vocabulary of people attending the ADCC, but traditionally grappling has been "western" wrestling which would include something like Ringen which is very similar to judo. Additionally, today if you search grappling on wikipedia, it actually lists judo and bjj under grappling. As a result, I think grappling is the larger category. Grappling includes all forms of combat where you're grabbing other people's body parts and trying to hurt them.
I don't understand the desire to define everything in terms of jiujitus as if it were a monolith. I'm not saying juijistu isn't great, it is, but its a bit of a stretch to say that jiujitsu has a monopoly on grappling--as if the Romans and the Greeks never grappled. Are you really prepared to say that grappling didn't exist before some Brazilians adopted BJJ from judo? That's pretty dumb imo.
If you even begin that argument they will just ignore you many people like you and I understand that Jiu-Jitsu is an art of many different Arts that existed before it but in my humble opinion the Gracie's they are trying to keep it to their lineages🤷
@@jstar6543 But neither Danaher nor Ryan has any relation to the Gracies do they? But what gets me isn't even that we call "no-gi grappling" "jiujitsu." I don't have a problem with jiujitsu having a monopoly on the high level competitive grappling tournaments, but to sit there with a bold face and say "grappling is no gi jiujitsu," like that's not even right. I just don't see on what basis he's making that claim. It doesn't seem to make any sense, and seems extremely ahistorical.
@@insidetrip101 danaher is a renzo GRACIE BLACKBELT trained by Renzo himself! If you would like a little Clarity look up" kama jiu-jitsu your Jiu-Jitsu lineage"!
According to Danaher, the Greeks, Romans, Persians etc weren’t grappling or wrestling two thousand years ago - they were all doing no gi Jiu Jitsu but just didn’t know it yet, smh.
I love that Danahar uses the analogy of "fundamentals". This is the correct term. Quite a few people use the phrase "basics". It isn't basic at all. I agree, Roger took the fundamentals to another level. No berimbolo, inverted guard, worm guard etc... Also correct is that someone with 3 months experience would recognize every move he did. Rickson is also like that.
If you compared it to another combat sport. Boxing. A jab is still a jab, hooks, uppercuts, crosses and roundhouses are the fundamentals. But the person behind them has mastered the science of it.
Where does Rickson Gracie rank ?
What face of Jiu Jitsu would combat jiu-jitsu fall into?
Everyone knows Danaher has his rash guard on underneath always ready 🤣
The self defense, Ricksons-JJGF with Kama bjj was supposed to be rival to The Competition, Carlos Gracie Jr.- IBJJF with Gracie Barra.
Never forget when Roger had Tim Kennedy’s back and was only able to hold on to it for about a minute.
Yeah was thinking the same no mention of Tim Kennedy match. Tim is an absolute animal that never quits.
Best I’ve ever met was Josh Barnett...unbelievable talent
Danaher could be a professional narrator in another lifetime.
What about Marcelo Garcia? Where does he rank?
Omg he’s not wearing a rash guard? Now I am sure we are living in a simulation and there is a glitch in the matrix
Rogers escapes were special to watch.
Gracie family --> mad respect!
I know Danaher is treated like god but I disagree that grappling is a term that only applies to no gi. I consider gi bjj, Judo, and Sambo to be grappling styles every bit as much as wrestling or no gi bjj.
No one can argue with Gracie jujitsu still to this day fundamentals are essential
Who wins Roger Gracie vs Gordon Ryan No gi?
timelessness in basic fundamentals
GOAT is a very difficult question
20 or 30 yrs ago people were talking about Rickson in the same way... the sport evolves constantly so nobody can really be considered GOAT
Its only the greatest of their generation
Rogers fundamentals are just soo strong
Bullshit. If Roger was the greatest, then why did you John steal Marcelo's entire style? Marcelotine, single leg x-guard, butterfly, even Gordon's RNC is Marcelo's variation of it.
Has Danaher ever admitted that he “borrowed” a lot of his system from Marcelo? It’s pretty clear on the surface that this is the case, especially when you consider their close proximity to each other’s schools in NYC. I feel like Marcelo “discovered” this style and Danaher refined and “translated” it better than anyone on the planet.
Easy I think Jon Jones gsp Silva and Mighty Mouse are the greatest ever in mma. But I chose to mimic Israel adesanyas kickboxing style and combine it with Charles Oliviera’s ground game because it suited me better. When you start a martial art you tend to mimic the person that had the biggest impact on you when you watched them doesn’t mean that you have to consider them the best
The greatest grappler ever is aleksandr karelin and it’s not even close
he's up there but im just happy someone else understands that bjj does not = grappling
@@pano6391 , I think they are saying grappling as a complete system (throws and ground). Wrestling it is not very complete as it comes on locks.
@@aluisiofsjr boxing is striking, even though Muay Thai is more "complete".
@@pano6391 , yeap. I think Danaher was saying the best grappler from a generalist view (not a specific aspect).
@@aluisiofsjr I'm not commenting on danahers choice. Wrestling is a type of grappling.
Did Roger ever fight Rickson???
No but I'm sure if you asked Roger he would say Rickson would win....easily.
Wonder if John thinks Roger is better than Rickson . Be interesting on his view between the two
Roger vs Gordon would be amazing .
What about Rickson ?
When the bald dude said “Very astute question...” for a second I he was saying “...stupid question....” I had to rewind and listen again to verify that he called Lex stupid! Phew!
Wrestling is by far the bigger sport, but I love and respect BJJ...especially Renzo who gave me a Blue Belt years ago. Roger is the greatest BJJ player, ever.
Damian Maia has to be right up there
No
Jon Danaher wearing a shirt!
The Gracie Hunter.
*Killer
There is an age, skill and size difference between Roger and Sakuraba.
You mean Sakuraba?
Imagine if we got a Prime Roger Gracie vs Prime Gordon Ryan nogi bjj fight
Using John’s theory he needs to be listing off wrestlers based on his categories he listed, and not BJJ players. Wrestling has Freestyle, Folk style, Greco, mixed martial arts comp, and self defense.
Prime Alex Karelin vs Roger Gracie would be a sight to see.
Didn't they use to say that Rickson was the greatest?
The 4 faces of BJJ that he’s taking about didn’t exist in Rickson’s prime. He says “modern athletes.” I don’t consider Rickson a “modern athlete.”
I love me some Marcelo
Rickson Gracie showed perfection in the four parts of Jiujitsu, including selfdefense!
In my view Roger is great, but Rickson is the greatest!
Joe Rohan said Rickson I believe... if anybody cares
Thanks
Rickson Gracie, Carlson Gracie Sr. should both be mentioned in an All-Time conversatuion...
They look like brothers
If the greatest jiu-jitsu competitor got demolished in MMA than means he’s not the greatest. I would vote for a guy like Jacare who was able to adapt and implement his jiu-jitsu in a combative situation. That is the test of true jiu-jitsu or any martial art.
Phew... he said there may be others that he hasn't met... I almost got offended.
Notice he didn't say rickson
By all time, they mean in the last 20 or 30 years... someone like the great Gama wouldn't be on their radar no doubt ..
Meragali is reaching Roger levels
I would have thought Gordon Ryan but if John Danaher says it, who am I to argue.