Concert Toms vs Regular Toms - Comparison
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- I was interested to hear the difference between concert toms and regular double-headed toms in studio enviroment. Some basic EQ was applied to tracks, but nothing more. Batter heads were Remo Emperor on everything except Bass drum, which was Pinstripe. Resonant heads were Remo CS.
Drumset is Tama Superstar '86 birch, except 10" tom is regular Swingstar:
10x9"
12x11"
14x13"
16x16"
24x16"
14x6,5" (snare)
Paiste cymbals used in this video:
15" 2000 heavy hi-hat
22" 505 heavy ride
18" Signature line full crash
20" 505 heavy crash
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #30 ДВА В ОДНОМ [Один человек]• Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nrXy15orKhY/mqdefault.jpg)
So basically, if you're having a hard time tuning toms, try concert toms!
Concert Toms sound great in "Most Incredible drone shotsl from The Ocean Race!" With most incredible music Fierce by MWNS. ua-cam.com/video/h04_4Msuw2k/v-deo.html on UA-cam
That is not true. Look at your history going back to Hal Blain. Concert Toms and power Toms were a specific sound engineers, artists and drummers wanted back in the day. The sound is just as valid as double headed drums. It’s a matter of preference as a drummer and what serves the music.
I’m a guitar player I don’t know how I got here, stayed for the accent
thats hilarious. I'm a drummer and I watch guitar instructional videos sometimes and I'm like "what am i doing here? lol
@@totigerus
HA HA!, SAME!...
It's cool to learn stuff that you "shouldn't" know sometimes though. That way when I ask my guitar players to "maybe try the progression in minor, or try a hammer on, or pull off, or pinched harmonic or something", they give me that confused but slightly impressed look 😊😄
Yeah!, and that awesome mustache!
I was watching some Pokémon random videos and suddenly... that accent catch me like a master ball capturing fuckin ‘ Mewtwo.
You should hear my accent!
Phil Collins uses concert toms, tunes them to bark like a seal. His attack style is mainly rimshots which give the unique sound, along with the gated reverb. Still sounds great even today!
Mike Portnoy and Taylor Hawkins also used concert toms.
According to Nic Collins, Phil didn't tune his toms, he just hit them really hard.
Check out the song Inside out by Phill Collins. His single headed kit sounds amazing on that song.
Concert toms can sound great when miked from inside the shell and at the batter side. When miked just from the top, the single mike cannot capture the punch and tone by itself from the batter side alone. Great sounding vintage TAMA kit, BTW.
This.
I have tried micing from the bottom and inside, with not so great results, so that's why I miced them them from the top. Didn't have enough mics for top an bottom. Maybe I'll do a video about different micing options of concert toms one day.
Janne Väätäinen please do!! I use concert toms. and I'm curious how to mic them.
Totally, that's the only way to mic concert toms baby!
The pro with this is you can fit a BIG fucking mike in from the bottom. It''s wasted if you use regular tom mikes. The shorter sustain helps clear up the total mix, provided you know to dial in the EQ for each tom.
This was a KICK ASS comparison Janne! Thanks so much for taking the time to do all of the setup/head changes with this video. You rock man!
Thanks. It seems like there's more interest in concert toms than I thought!
I had a concert tom set in the 80's. I really liked the cutting sound of the 6-12 inch toms. Attack sound, like Neil Peart's setup, back in the day.
That snare is so 80's
so is his hair :D
It totally has a gated verb sound to it.
yes, wanted to comment that, too but i like that o_O
ahh thats why i like it so much
Thanks! I think that the clear Emperor head has a lot to do with the sound, along with the drum itself, and the tuning. You also have to hit it HARD with heavy sticks. Really makes a huge difference.
When you started playing the whole kit with concert toms it immediately reminded me of the song Therapy from The Damned, so it made me prefer them over the normal ones.
That fast forwarded clip sounds so satisfying
I think good to add concert tom’s to your kit gives it a 70’s vibe to it ✌️
You did a great job making both styles sound great. Nice job!
Cool comparison, haha... great sound both ways, plus I liked your streamlined fills straight from the 70's!
Phil Collins used concert toms.
i always wondered what that 80s drum sound was now i know
that "80's drum sound" had a lot more to do with gated reverb than it did concert toms, although both played a part.
@@totigerusyup. Just happened to be what he had set up and was using.
Just because it was the 80s
"Uses"
I love the concert tom sound but your kick and snare are amazing.i dont know why more drummers dont use that snare sound these days
great video, that superstar sounds beaautiful
DUDE! That kit gives off huge Skid Row vibes!
Neither sounds bad really.. but I love the snare sound you got there! I may have to revisit an old deep superstar like that.
They are some fat snares, and the clear Emperor head works really well.
Yes they are! and I noticed the clear head - i was surprised by that.
Yeah it was a great comparison, but my biggest takeaway is that his snare sounds awesome.
try putting a evans g2 on your snare it sounds almost exactly like that
Janne, great playing and great-sounding drums! To me, the sounds of bottom heads on or off both have their charm for different reasons.
Great old school metal sound on that beautiful tama man. Awesome
Always loved the sound of concert toms. Vinny Appice really turned me onto the tone/sound in the early/mid 80's with Dio. I actually converted my 'kit at the time, which already had two Maxwin (Pearl) concert toms (8" and 10"), and i thought it sounded great. Each to their own obviously, and i do love the sound of both, but if pushed, i would still go for the concert tom sound. Also, some nice drumming there. Cool... \m/ (:o)
A throw back !
I love it !
Thanks for this excellent video! The 1-headed toms sounded great!!
Janne it was a really great presentation! Finally, someone demonstrates that there really is only a difference in taste between concerts and double heads but a big difference in price and convenience. I used to carry all my toms inside each other and fit them in a couple of cases. It's just fashion. I think concerts are the future. Wait and see.
Thanks. They are convenient for sure, and much easier to tune! Can't see to the future though. ;)
I love concert toms. Especially little ones. But I love and prefer the tone and fullness of regular toms
Coolest drummer on UA-cam ever... very nice vid, bro 👍👍
Toms with both heads do have richer and warmer tone and can be amplified so much more than they used to. I see concert toms used without bottom heads in a school band percussion section and in an orchestra percussion setting used for special effect.
Like and subscribed. Your drumming and this demonstration comparison are excellent here
pretty sure Taylor Hawkins uses a couple Gretsch concert toms on his setup
he does. Mike Portnoy , Christian Eigner and a few other drummers have started using them lately too.
The concert toms actually sounded better, surprisingly.
Roy Beckerman that’s why I play bigger toms because they do sound better .I don’t care for theses newer drums with smaller toms I love the concert power toms .
Not really, is just completely different stuff, is like comparing winter tyre with normal tyre
Not so surprisingly... They sound much more clear and defined. Way better.
Great video and playing!
It makes me happy that somewhere in the world it’s still 1977
man,i like both sounds
Love the concert tom sound. I didn't know Holy Diver was recorded with them. Great Album.
Great Video. It was interesting all the way. Also nice sounding kit and good playing by the way. Especially liked that information about classic metal records.
This was the first time watching one of your videos. Now I'll check out your channel for sure. Keep it up! |m|
My TAMA set is all old school Concert Toms...they don’t have lugs for reso heads, so it’s a clean look. 6, 8, 12, 12, 14, and 16. The 14 and 16 are mounted on a single floor stand dual TAMA rack mount. I like the sound, and all the toms have the foam Remo muff rings under the heads. They have good sound, and thump, but no ring. I want to buy a new set, but I’ll always keep this one since it’s a unique set up.
Seems like a great set! I would like to have a proper concert tom set too, but I don't have the space to store them.
A BIG thank to you, Janne !
I think I like the sound of concert toms better! Not that I can tell much difference. I'm thankful for folks with better ears than me!
A+ for presentation!
This comparison kicks ass! I personally liked the sound of the full set of concert toms better myself. You sound great either way though
Thanks!
Concert Tom’s have more of a “doom“ sound. Definitely a classic rock and metal sound.
Exactly!
Fantastic man! I have the same Superstar toms and I always wanted to put off my rezo heads. Now I know it sounds killer!
+grummer88 Yes, you can do it with a confidence. It's a nice retro sound. The old Tama Superstars are VERY well crafted, and good sounding drums indeed. Very easy to tune. I still need to get the 10" and other 24", so I'll have a proper double set.
+Janne Väätäinen I still need to get 16x16 and 24x14/16 :). I have 12x11 and 14x13 toms from '82/'83 in Super Mahogany finish and my 22x18 BD is Starclassic Performer model from 2002. Snare is also made of birch - 14x6,5 Tama Artwood Cherry Wine AW336 from 1986. Love those drums!
Both sounds good
I prefer no reso head when I record metal / rock because I like the attack that it gives, you still hear the tone, but it rings out a lot less and doesn't bleed after doing fills.
Definitely gonna give the concert toms a try!
Listen, you can't fool me, I know you're a genius! I've just listened to your Häive album "Iätön" 👍👍👍
I'm interested in Gar Samuelsons tom set-up when Megadeth recorded Killing is My business. I also went and looked up Lars Ulrich setup from the 80s no bottom heads and the mic were inside the toms. Great Video.
That's the way they did it back then. They mic'ed inside each drum for isolation because most semi-pro/low level sound providers didn't have noise gates or, if they did have them, they either had really shitty ones, or had no idea how to set them up and use them.
wow you are a very good drummer your style reminds me of Niko Mcbrain
Logan Swank nicko is so good
And the hair and 'stache are all 70s Peart.
Your accent is awesome. Reminds me of one of the dudes on Metalpocolypse.
Nigel Olsen, drummer for Elton John used batter head-only toms in the early days. He must have muffled the heck out of them because they had a dry, non resonating sound to them, not bad though. And his snare would "thud", not "crack".
When using concert toms you usually put the mic underneath the drum pointing inside the drum rather than how you mic it here which is how you mic a double head drum, as it doesn't get the best tone from the drum and accentuates the overtones.
I also tried to mic the concert toms from underneath, and thought this method got a better sound. I should make a video of different micing methods for concert toms.
You've got it backwards. Mic'ing inside the drum gives you less usable low end, and a heavy midrange-y sound that has to be eq'd out. You get much better sound mic'd the top of the drum.
That bass drum sounds so good.
Is it me or do the concert toms sound better for recording? I’ve set my kit up like that a few times and they sound not all that great in person and I’m great at tuning. Although, I did just play a vintage slingerland kit that had a bass drum with no reso head and that bass drum sounded Incredible. Also, I got a super mahogany superstar kit too, they sound great.
Great video and playing. I think i'm gonna have to try it tho, to really find how it affects the sound.
Some time ago I removed the resonant heads from my drumset , even the bassdrum, and the snare, too! Just joking about the snare :P... Once I saw videos of Peter Criss and John Densmore playing without the resonants heads, so I decided to give it a try. Didn't go back. I use a fusion kit and a 10" snare, and I play mostly rock, indie, electro-rock and funk, so this kind of set works well for me. Thanks for the comparison.
I never knew about this "concert tom" concept until this video.. I've played in middle school jazz, symphonic band, played a summer at FAMU's drum camp (hardest thing I ever did) played all through highschool as a percussionist/pocket player. I've played at churches, garage bands that only got us shows at Jack Rabbits, Freebird, few places down south "Johnny Rockin Bistro", etc... did 3 high school band competitions (like our little rock band vs someone else who had a band but the songs had to be clean) not one person ever out of all my times around drums have introduced me to such beauty by chaos. Lol But seriously how's the bottom done? Do you butcher your resonant head and cut a circle? Certainly the tension rods wouldnt be able to push the rim all the way down and would probably make a rattle sound... it looked like your drum had an inner wooden hoop so can these only be done on older drums? I've very curious to know because I think the concert version sounded way way better and I'm re-doing my drums (wraps, lugs, nylon washers or rubber washers on tensioner, using dowels and a piece of basswood to fill up my Mapex V mount hole... my drum doesnt sound so beautiful as that... but after just swapping the drum head to a evans ec2 before all the crazy ideas of removing hardware and wraps.. I know this thing just needs some TLC and it will sound amazing. (Yes I'm documenting each step be it triumph or failure) anyways thanks for posting this... I loved it
Resonant head is not needed at all in a concert tom (and "proper" concert toms don't even have lugs for it). It's hear only for protection of the tom edge, and so that I don't loose the screws and rims. I use some old Pinstripes and cut the head from where the black ring is.
Evans EC2 is a nice head for fat toms sound.
They would just take a pinstripe and cut along the circular pinstripe on the head. There is no "oil" inside the pinstripe, although that myth has been around forever.
I live in Jax myself. When we were younger, Brent Smedley used to cut the bottom heads out and mic'd them, but it looked like he used black dot heads, and cut the dot out. and stuck the mic inside the drum... so it still had most of the head for some resonance.
Dat snare! Goddamn!
I like both.
Me recordó a un gran baterista chileno del grupo Tumulto, Robinson Campos. Saludos desde Santiago de Chile
Ludwig Vistalite concert toms are the best I've ever heard.... my opinion. Not sure if it's because they are concert toms or maybe because they are made of plastic... But those are the best sounding toms to me. They have such a big heavy deep sound...
Fucking awesome playing.
I really preferred the concert tom version: much more clear and defined sound...you can distinguish one tom from another, unlikely when there are the reso heads on. In this last case the bass is too much and covers the attack (especially with pinstripes that I only like on snare)
If you wanted a more particular flavor you could have miced up the concert toms from inside. I think that is the best way to get that signature vintage sound like Maiden and early Sepultura did.
Exactly!
YOU ARE CONGRATULATED BY CHANNEL, AND SPECTACULAR SOUND.
my drumset basically only has a concert tom because when I got it the bottom head and hoop were gone and I really like how it sounds
everything in this video looks like came straight from the 80s, the mustache makes it.
Are you from Transylvania
I prefer the sound of single-headed toms. And you are suppose to mic them from the bottom. Great playing and video.
One thing I've been curious about lately... What if you used mesh head for the reso side? Would you get a sort of "inbetween" sound? Or would it just sound like one or the other? Also could you use it to have a loud kit for rehearsal and gigs, and then use the mesh side for quiet practice?
Hey Janne! Love your drumming!!! Do you play rimshots, when playing Backbeats on your snare? All the best!!
I'm going back to the consert Tom's for awhile cutting the bottom head out like a circle in the Bottom center of the rack Tom's
Kiitoksia paljon. I wonder why concert toms fell out of fashion. Maybe to give more attack prominence to kick and snare? Robert Ricci I agree the snare is so 80s, I realise the snare (clear head) drone that might have been noise-gated out of so many recordings. Brings Igor Cavalera to mind (Sepultura). Did he use clear snare heads?
What do you call those tiny diameter toms that are the highest and have been used in early thrash/death bands... like Sepultura demo, mostly used as the starting in a roll or intro. Theyre probably cylinder shaped
Concert tom’s sounds big & more open tones if you’re going for the 70’s rock sound ether way. What ever sounds good 🥁
That's definitely a concert m'stache. : )
Sounds great
Great video. I think concert toms sound pretty cool. Actually Ville Kela (I think you know he is the drummer of Anssi Kela as you seem to be a Finn too) uses concert toms nowadays. Also Taylor Hawkins uses a few, and Dominic Howard has one too :)
1980 called...they want you back, bro!
When i got my first kit, i didnt like the sound of reso heads (granted i didnt get the kit tuned). The sustain just seemed weird so i took the resos off and now i like how i just hit the tom, get a quick sound and its gone.
This video doesn't show it ,but they actually sound very different. I debottomed mine in the 80s for a while. I was listening to a lot of DIO then so...
This is just a test of medium tensioned mids. People tune concert toms higher so they "crack" through the din. Phil C and Neil P used higher concert toms in ways close toms do not project. The mid sized toms are better served with two heads.
Tama, paiste and remo, i also use the same. Good drum set!
whouw dude, your drums sound absolutely sick! may i ask what microphones you use and how you get your bassdrum to sound sooo "meaty"?
It's a good bass drum. :) The kick mic is Sennheiser E602, which also helps. Tom mics and overheads are Shure PG series cheapo mics, and the snare mic is Audix i5.
@@jannevaatainen i got my hands on a birch/bubinga starclassic kit a few months back. the 24x18 kick with a remo powersonic on sounds absolutely the way i want it to be, but i can't seem to capture it with my microphone. i'm thinking about building my own subkick to get more of those lows.
The difference in the sound is actually much bigger in reality than in this video.
Very Billy Cobham. Nice sound! I like concert toms.
I love the sound of concert toms
Great informative video.Thank you.Same size kit as mine.Double skin does sound better overall I think.
Take care
I am actually currently thinking about recording my bands drummer using concert toms, and naturally I found your video.
Awesome video man. No one may do this technique anymore, but who cares about what people do today right? Music I listen to was created using lots of techniques no body uses anymore but if I want older metal sounds then this is the way to go!
Can you tell me exactly how you've tuned your kit? To what notes? Also the snare and how that is tuned? Your kit sounds incredible so this is why I want to know. I think the concert toms sound good. You should have made a video with how they sound mic'd from the inside, even just to let people hear the difference. I think I will try miking from the inside, a guide I was given states position mic between the centre and the shell, and then inside about a third of the way. Hopefully works out for me. Need to buy more mics stands now! Great video btw
I didn't check the notes. The tuning here is quite low for a concert tom, you can tune them higher with even more old school sound. They are VERY easy to tune! I've made a video about how I get my snare sound.
I have tried micing the toms from inside, but the sound was really weird, like a basketball. Of course bleed was almost nonexistent, but I didn't like the sound.
Hmmm that's strange cause I've only ever seen concert toms mic'd from the inside. I guess there is no harm in trying it.
Yes, of course, you should try it yourself. I think at least in the studio, they mic'd them from outside too, as I don't hear that basketball sound in studio albums.
I will try it both ways. Why do you think when used live they didn't get the basketball sound? We've all seen it done that way and not heard any basketballs? Must be some trick to nailing it???? Oh well I'll just have to try it out.
Report about your experiment when you're done. ;)
Nice! I guess I know what to do with the heads I just replaced! Weeee
Cool video, thanks
I think concert toms sound great for smaller toms, up to 10" but I prefer the sound of those 12+ toms to be double heads.
CS heads are going through a revival it seems.
How did you get that phat snare? Goddamn that is nice
Hah, thanks! I like my snare to be fat and moist. My snare is Tama vintage Superstar birch 14x6,5", with clear Emperor head and medium low tuning. Works well!
Oh, and the snare mic is Audix i5. I don't remember if I used a bottom mic or not, but if I did, it was Beyerdynamic Opus 87.
One thing . Concert toms are back. Drummer's are really using them again
What hardware are you using to get your toms mounted at those angles? It doesn't look like a rack setup and more of a stand setup.
It's just early 80's Tama tom mounts on bass drums. The 10" tom is on a stand. I think it's propably the maximum angle you can put these on. ;) The memory locks are mandatory, so they stay in place. I now have also a 15" rack tom, and that weights quite a lot, and just barely holds it's place. 80's hardware were sturdy.
Very nice!
The concert toms sound better in my opinion, obviously the addition of a resonant head makes the drum more resonant, but most drummers use products to reduce resonance anyway, so save money on heads and ease the tuning process and just use concert toms.
What tension do you use for the concert tom resonant heads, and how did you cut the head itself? Also, what size do you cut it down to? I've wanted to try this setup on my '82 Imperialstars for quite some time.
I have a 15" traditional concert tom (lugs on one side only) and the rest are power toms (10/12/13/14), and wanted to see how the extra bit of resonant head compares to the complete openness of the concert tom with the Mahogany shells.
They are not really tuned, just tightened so they keep the bottom rim in place. Make the hole as big as you basically can, so there's very little resonant head left.
I assume that if the shells are the same, there isn't a noticeable difference in sound with "real" concert toms and these DIY converted concert toms.
Thanks for the information. There's definitely a difference with having the partial resonant head than having a full-open bottom, as the semi-concert tom still retains some of the warmth that full-on concert toms lack. Definitely going to give this a try one of these days with my Imperialstars and maybe even with my Starclassics.
I love your voice and accent
I just took off the reso head, the rims and lugs and it sounds killer. Do you actually have to change the cut out reso head once in a while?
Would it be better with the cut out head to not damage the wood?
Good to hear! The cut out reso head is just to protect the bearing edge, and you also won't loose the hardware.
Can you tell us about your home studio setup? Interface, preamps, mica? Than you!
Nothing spectacular. Sennheiser E602 on bass drum, Audix i5 & Beyerdynamic Opus 87 on snare, Shure PG56 on toms, PG81 on overheads, T.Bone EM700 (very good for the price!) on hihat & ride. Tascam US series USB audio interface, with 8x built in preamps. I will update the gear gradually.
Janne Väätäinen thank you, and great work Sir!
Concert toms will generally sound a little different than a standard tom with the resonant head removed. Single headed concert toms are also a thinner, to compensate for their lack of resonance..Decent comparison though.. ;)
Could be. This kind of conversion was also very popular though, and is the most practical way in my opinion. Factory made concert toms are also easily damaged because they don't have the bottom hoops.
Janne Väätäinen Correct, however, Ludwig did make them with a protective hoop on most of their wood shell drums, except for Vistalite shells..
Yeah, after seeing the video for sure I need you to "explain" me the difference..., like we all need that and like Janne wouldn't had done a great job...
Assholee...
"Decent comparison" he says..
***** Oh, hello, hipster troll and king of douchebaggery.. Let me ask you something..
Why all the hostility ? Why all the negative comments ? As a drummer for the past 32 years, drum tech in both studio and live situations, i was just stating an opinion.. Take it as you will. Name calling is uncalled for, but in this case, i'll make the exception and speak the only language you know.. Idiocy... Btw, you are the one who comes off as the rude and ignorant one, and you certainly fueled the flames of animosity here pal..
What is your argument anyway ? What expertise can you bring to the table in regards to this subject matter ? I'm gonna say absolutely fucking nothing. With that being said, why don't you disappear and troll on other videos and see what happens when you spew out your fiercely stupid and inept comments and talk about something else that you may be familiar with, such as cock smoking.