Yeah, one hit KO is dumb shit Square/Enix gameplay mechanics. That's the reason I quit FFXIV for Monster Hunter World. I got tired of SE's shitty raid mechanics.
I think it would be cool if instead of judgement, Alatreon permanently goes into an enraged state where It's more difficult to hunt (and maybe has some harder to dodge new moves) until you deal enough elemental damage to knock it out of it. This way if you're a skilled player, you could ignore the elemental threshold, but it would still be really nice to have players on your team with elemental weapons.
This (or maybe even a strong attack that's really hard to dodge and covers the whole arena, think stygian zinogre's ultimate move but bigger and more flashy)
@@arialblack3279 i think it would be easier if we just leave the judgement them. AOE atacks in this game are a pain and especially if elemental damage is needed to make them stop. I know this is old but i dont think we want an even harder lunastra. (Or any other AOE spammer you can think of)
"For those with no friends that they know by name online" As someone who fits this description, it really is sad when you know the game is a lot more fun playing with friends
join some monster hunter discords like the jinjinx mathalos, canta's server or anything. you get discussions and friends that know what they are doing to play with.
I completely agree. I really like the fight design. if the elemental dps wall is not met its cuz of poor preparation and player skill/experience. with 4 people the check is met 2 minutes into the fight, huuuge leeway.
Same I always played mh solo, started with 3 and I've always found my hunt funnier/better in solo The game is just more challenging in solo and that's what I love with this franchise
I play solo mostly because my laptop can run MHW but not properly; I cannot in good conscience play with others because either my system won't be able to keep up with theirs, or their systems will be left waiting (lagging) on mine. (I just hit HR14 last night -- that Nergigante hunt did _not_ disappoint!)
Breaking the horns is completely optional if you’re using a dragon weapon. You can just stick to hitting front and back legs and you’ll reach the damage check. For those who don’t know Alatreon takes the most elemental damage from its front legs.
This is true, I used a 2000 Dragon element Switch Axe and clapped him hard, but it’s also worth noting that he only becomes weak to dragon in his dragon form, and other forms take much less dragon damage.
SOS for Alatreon is hopeless when you notice that the MR requirement for it is just 24. it’s funny that you can hunt an endgame monster, while you need MR 100 for Ruiner Nergigante.
@@GuiltyHAL343 As someone who is MR 87 soloed it and beat it with multiple groups of randoms I get what you are saying but at the same time not everyone under MR 250 is not good. It is truly luck when online it seems.
HAL after completing the Special Assignment, you can only do the event quest and it lasts for 365 days since release. so yeah, they have no excuse for that.
Greatest part about Alatreon not having to tenderize every 90 seconds to deal any sort of dmg. His hitzones are so juicy I don't even bother tenderizing which imo was one of the most annoying mechanics they added in iceborne.
Several of his attacks also completely disrespects even an invincible claw like my lance counter claw. For example, if I counter claw onto its face when it has one more face slam, it throws me off and makes me lie on the ground. Its body slam attack also does not trigger the claw unless you are hit by its legs despite it clearly being a physical attack. Between this and Rajang I feel like the development team themselves don't fully understand the claw and just wanted to add something arbitrarily flashy but is ultimately annoying.
I only tenderize at the beginning and then during every flinch or after a very punishable move it makes the hunt a lot more realistic. Instead of just randomly trying to clutch the monster every 90 seconds.
@@VaioletteWestover completely agree. I've wanted to make counter claw work but have pretty much abandoned it now. It's just better to Lance charge + finisher, then back into the bread and butter combo.
One more thing about the fight, the sound design is absolutely excellent in every way. The way alatreon and his elements sound is by far my favorite in the game and that's saying something. It's so sad that just one mechanic gets in the way of what would be one of the best fights in the entire series period.
I completely agree the sound design is amazing and it’s an amazing fight. Personally I like the ‘use elements or you ded’ mechanic because it mixes things up a bit and requires you to put more thought into the fight rather than just the usual ‘attack it until it turns into a cool set of armour’.
@@maxwhite4732 My issue is that it's notably harder to reach that threshold with slower weapons, or simply because if he moves too much to actually hit he can just time you out and nuke you for something you couldn't even really stop. Had a close hunt once where we got two ults survived and broke a horn, thing refused to stay still or on the ground long enough that we literally just couldn't hit it enough.
One little detail I noticed, when Alatreon does a weakened escaton judgement, the sound simply muffles. When it does one at full power though, you can faintly hear this ominous bell, as if to say “this is the end for you.” Edit: It’s kind of like what you hear over the forbidden monster part of the anniversary video
I find myself conflicted when they make a mandatory mechanic like this when it more or less outright denies certain playstyles. I can accept being told to change up my armor set and maybe getting a variant of a weapon that does the proper element and all of that. It was incredibly frustrating when I learned that my Gunlance basically doesn't do elemental damage for the majority of its effective mechanics. Then I remembered Heavy Bowgun Exists and I felt even worse for them, because their ability to do element is even LESS, meaning those players basically are being slapped in the face. If it was just about mitigating blast/raw spam, or very specific builds that break monsters I'd get it, but when entire weapon groups are rendered a liability it makes me frown. As someone else put it, Monster Hunter has always been a "Bring what you want, just be good enough to do it" and then to that I will add: we have this fight with multiple layers of "Bring what we want, if you aren't good enough at that we're chastising you." Its against the spirit of monster hunter even beyond the concept of community and playing with others online. I've seen people even propose keeping the elemental DPS check but making it an environmental limiter instead of an instant cart, something that makes the fight more and more untenable as the arena becomes more restricting or dangerous. It still encourages the frantic aggression without slapping people who simply cant build the developer meta because of limitations on weapon mechanics.
Wait a minute, I heard this kind of argument along the line of MH is always about this and that, something along the line of what you said: "Bring what you want, just be good enough to do it". SO I want to ask is it really what the game (series) is about OR is it what YOU THINK it is about? Because I would say it is the later one. Because I think adaptability is one of the core/main ideas of MH. You get access to all types of weapons at any given point, they don't force you to pick only one role/playstyle from the get-go. Monsters have different elements, different movesets, etc. And crafting system is a core mechanic of the game. So with all of that, it always been if you find a hard monster (a roadblock), you need to craft new gears/weapons that best countered that monster. You need to adapt to that new challenge.
heronumber009 nice mental gymnastics but let me correct you real quick. The game is not about changing your weapon class just to be able to succeed in a fight. You should be able to reasonably defeat the any monster with any weapon class. There are good and bad matchups depending on the monster move set, but it’s all viable or at least it used to be. Let me tell you what the game has never been about. It has never been about dps checks. It has never been about one shot mechanics. Monster can 1 shot you, but you can dodge, block, super man dive, etc. to prevent getting killed. The game has never been about fighting the clock instead of the monster. Every time I see a 30 minute hunt I get immediately triggered. Not because I’ll fail, most likely I’ll finish with plenty of time to spare. but if I wanna learn a new weapon or I’m not comfortable with my current weapon. The reduced time makes it a chore, so I grab what I’m used to and kill it like usual.
Right, as a Gunlance user I feel your pain. I've seen that there's a video of somebody soloing Alat with GL, but like you said GL really isn't about doing elemental damage, never has been. Sucks that the elemental DPS check makes one of my favorite weapons in the game a less-viable option.
@@Caine830 Well, then tell me which weapon can't solo or multiplayer Alatreon? Because I think even with Gunlance, there are videos of people solo Alatreon with it. There is video of 4 people speedrun Alatreon in 2 minutes something with heavy bowguns. So if you want to go with the "Bring what you want, just be good enough to do it" motto, you still can, just get yourself to that lv of player hence the "just be good enough to do it" part. And the thing about "what the game has never been about", well it's redundant because new things get introduced in the series over time. There was a point in time where Rajang and its mechanics was "what the game has never been about", because it was introduced in Monster Hunter 2, so before that it was also "what the game has never been about". Same as many, many other things in the game now. "It has never been about dps checks", well there was Extreme Behemoth. At the end of the day, I know it's a new challenging thing that the game devs just throw at the players, and many are annoyed with it. But hey it is what it is. You either adapt to it or just leave it. Not every player in MHW can beat every monsters (at least without getting carry through it). ANd not every player in MHW enjoy every parts of it and every monsters in it. So if you don't like something, just ignore it.
@@heronumber009 You first argument is one big asspull. Yeah, just dedicate your life to this game to beat a certain monster with a certain weapon, like those dudes do that play this game 24/7; they manage, so why can't you? Bruh... Behemoth dps check wasn't as bullshit as alatreon, because guess what? You could use any weapon for it, even non-elemental Gunlance, that deals mostly non-elemental damage! Do you read what you are writing? The alatreon fight almost prohibits GL and HBG, since when did any other monster do that? Certain elemental resistances are fine: Don't bring a fire weapon against a fire dragon, duh. But: Don't bring a Gunlance against...??? It shouldn't work like that. No other monster makes it almost impossible to fight against depending on your weapon type. Sometimes faster weapons are better, or heavy-hitters like GS, but none of them get punished by a BS one-shot gimmick. You mention adaptability, but never do you actively need to switch your weapon just to beat a monster. NEVER. And saying GL and HBG Alatreon is prohibitively difficult to pull off, impossible some might say, is fair.
totally agreed, only other thing I'd put my 2 cents on would be the threeway fireball into fire breath combo, can't really see the fire while explosions with the same colour/particle effects are happening right in front of you
I really hate how people are complaining like hurr durr everything is AOE and claiming Capcom is out of ideas to make the fights difficult when the battle is actually incredibly well made, fair and perfectly matches the theme of a Black Dragon who controls all the elements.
It just feels less fun. Like I look at Shara, Namielle, Velk, Hazaak, and Xeno Jiva and I can't really complain about anything among them. They're all really fun hunts with new interesting things you can learn by fighting them. What made Shara difficult? The fact it had new extremely dangerous mechanics that you had to learn how to avoid. When I fight one of these buster stack check timers I just feel like I'm fighting against the gimmick rather than beating any monster. Why is hitting literally anything but the horns in the final phases of the High-Rank Kulve Taroth essentially just damage that goes into the void? There's essentially 3-4 weapons who will ever hit them. Why is a weapon like Lance so heavily shafted by not having literally an optimal Kjarr or Crit Element build vs Alatreon? There is so little in terms of situations you'd run elemental vs monsters as Lance, and when I do, I have an actual motivation outside of "this monster is quite literally unable to be fought without reaching the stats because it'll instant kill me with no other interaction but how much elemental I did".
every monster hunter has had dps checks for elder dragons. or at least in 2nd gen like freedom 2 and unite where if you did enough damage to them, they would flee and then you could finish them off the next time you hunt them in the same quest.
Joe Alexander Don't be so obtuse. You know damn well there's a difference between a timed event quest where you can only fight the monster for a set amount of time and a DPS "check" where if you "fail" the monster merely does more damage. Can't believe this has to be said.
@Joe Alexander C'mon my dude; I think this is a pretty large jump from "the monster's special move does a lot more damage if you don't break X part before it uses a move" and "the hunt ends early because your team couldn't meet the DPS quota". Considering hunts are still timed and; outside of the MMO games like Frontier, screen filling death moves generally weren't a thing in previous entries. Even older elder dragons; who did some annoying things like break your boat, or a wall, or force you to swim for overly long, still didn't just OHKO the entire party for missing an arbitrary damage number. Sure; some decided to just leave if you ran out of time in the mission, but that was always the case. Though I think if anything the DPS check there was on you and the monster really, since if you kept them from doing their big mechanic it wasn't even an issue to worry about. Hell; most people probably never even knew the dhan boat could break in MH4, as apposed to MH3 jhen boat lol And that's to say nothing of the way this hunt removes options from play in order to artificially inflate its challenge. No status weapons is bad enough (they did get rid of the counterplay of using poison for Kushala Daora), but pretty much forcing these under-performing parties to just watch themselves die because farcasters are banned is basically a joke. Y'see a lot of teams just abandon rather than deal with the insta-cart mechanic. Even hunts like Gogmazios who has one of the more outrageous special moves still was avoidable, and allowed you to farcaster out if you needed to strategically retreat. So, no. . . I don't think I'm on the berries. I do think people definitely are trying to be disingenuous and compare this to the older games; going well actually; the games have always had DPS checks'. Its a little revisionist is all.
I've noticed that they're almost trying to turn MH into an MMO. Login bonuses, timed content, raid bosses, and now dps checks. Those things aren't inherently bad, but MH is not an MMO, and those are all mechanics typical to MMOs. I just want another MH like the older ones. With the QoL and graphics improvements that World brought to the table.
As long as they make everything possible to be done solo at a reasonable difficulty then I like these mechanics. I think making different versions with harder difficulty that are optional would be healthy for the game. I personally enjoy extremely sweaty difficult experience. I like the feeling of feeling like it's impossible initially. Just to practice improve and get to the point where I'm doing it no problem. I understand there are less skilled or maybe people that don't have the time to invest on acquiring skill that would not appreciate this. But I think making maybe diff difficulty requirements for maybe cosmetic rewards or just something for the more hardcore players to Chase would be beneficial.and then make the standard base weapons armor obtainable for the casual players.
Exactly i hate they people are saying that we’re just whining but no it’s just not what we expect of MH. If they make a separate MH game lime that then it’d be a different story
So hear me out, how about an "overhaul" on the training area. All these numbers that majority of the players don't know like elemental damage, true raw, etc. Have the training area able to show/teach us instead of it being all hidden numbers.
This is something I was just thinking about, and I would absolutely love. If the team could somehow work in a "chooseable weakness" on the training target so you can compare how much raw damage you do to something with say, 3 star to fire, vs how much damage you do with a fire weapon.
It seems like Capcom just barely wants people to know about these things in the first place. For all the stuff Monster Hunter games can teach you, they really don't teach you much.
@@coolorochi yeah but what is that??? How much elemental damage does a greatsword actually do? What moves do more elemental damage? For extremely experienced players those are easy to answer but noobs?
I guess he is mechanically easier in a team apart from team wipes. But the issue is that randoms are fucking idiots, especially since they could of just killed shara.
For me it feels easier to go duo with a single friend as that allows you to bring the cat that can revive you, to not have the aggro all the time and to coordinate with your friend
Yeah technically HP wise it's actually much each to fight Alatreon in multiplayer because his HP scales only to double his solo HP in a 4 person hunt. So if you had a group of 4 who could solo it then you would kill him much faster.
For perspective on where my opinions are based, I’m a first generation player with the franchise and cleared extremoth before the introduction of the G ranked gear from Iceborn. I say that to express my skill and familiarity with the franchise, not to boast. I don’t like DPS check OHKs. They have never been in the franchise before World, to my memory, and are contrary to the spirit of the game. They take you away from approaching the situation with builds and tactics you enjoy and play the game for, and force you into a specifically geared, specifically armor skilled, playstyle with no room for flexibility of approach. The penalty for not following a very specific mechanic should be an increase in difficulty, not an absolute wipe. OHK mechanics say to the player, “build and play how we tell you to or you lose, none negotiable”. These mechanics are not insurmountable and are commonplace in other games like raids in MMOs, however, they are simply not in the spirit of monster hunter. One of the main reasons I play MH is to bask in the flexibility it’s build system has to offer. OHK, elemental specific, DPS checks take that freedom away from the community. That’s not the Monster Hunter I fell in love with.
I agree the EJ is a little bullshitty. Alatreon got too overtuned. The inclusion of inability to tag out with a farcaster would have been just fine. I mean, the fight itself against the Black Dragon is fun. Ala got all kinds of tricky moves with clear windows to punish if you dodge the right way and right time.
It seems they want MHW to be a "cinematic experience" instead of, you know... a GAME about HUNTING MONSTERS. Of all franchises to turn its back on difficulty, skill, and tactics in recent times... gotta say this one hurts the most. Been with it since the beginning.
Finally, I completely agree with you. I believe this is the reason why I felt this game a little bit "off" compared to the previous titles (though it's still a good game).
Escaton Judgement exists solely because Stickies exist, and rather then nerfing them by removing or kneecapping their ability to stun, Capcom's answer was to build an entire mechanic that at the VERY least requires more thought and execution then "lol stickies go boom boom and monster falls over dead."
In my opinion, while it may feel excessive, isn't that supposed to be the point of an end-game boss? The DPS wall does seem a bit annoying (especially for me as a GS main), but it does encourage you to try and vary up your approaches towards certain monsters. This isn't even a case of "if all you have is a hammer then every problem is a nail" type of thing, it's all about finding what tools work for what situations. Most of the complaints I've seen seems to boil down to "it's too hard" or "they expect us to fight it differently" or "I am not changing my weapon just for one monster". While he did kick my ass Day 1 (I only managed to get it done 3 times out of the 11 times we tried hunting it on release), we learned how to fight it more efficiently, we managed to figure out ways of surviving Escaton Judgement and we learned to adapt to it's insanely aggressive attacks. I won't lie that the fight can be pretty frustrating at times, but it's still a great and challenging fight, which is fitting for a "Black Dragon".
Guess what? Not everyone has friends to play this game with so the issue is to practice this thing A LOT for no real reward or team up with random players and hope for the best. Both solutions are inelegant.
Making him MR 24 means that a lot of people who are not going to be well equipped enough to take on Alatreon, will be taking him on. I have a feeling that if they had restricted the monster to a higher rank, this wouldn't be as much of a problem/controversy
Salty Shunk Now it just sounds like you’re bitching tbh.This monster has already been speedrunned and you’re all out here crying about it’s too hard and shit like that.Alatreoj was SUPPOSED to be hard and the fight goes well with his lore.In my opinion yes the dps gap is annoying but it’s understandable since it is what makes alatreon special.They nailed this monster perfectly and it’s difficulty from the first game he showed up in.
When the game says “assemble a team”, what they’re really saying is “locate a set of three highly skilled veteran players with at least +500 hours of total playtime and fully upgraded weapons and gear specifically tailored to defeat the monster.”
You could make a lobby and strategize with randoms. Despite some not having kjarr/safi gear, the strategy still works. It seems the fight is not designed with SoS flare.
@@gaminghunter6741 honestly, i had trouble beating it and after every run, i'd get materials for building the lbg and eventually even got the materials for the upgraded version for it as well. a bit tedious but you also learn alatreon's moveset and get parts as well. pluderblade palico is also great while you learn how to play against it
@@gaminghunter6741 I was able to craft the final version of the alatreon LBG before i killed him a single time xD. Just play alone and take plunderblade with you even if you fail you'll get stuff even his gem.
I tried this on release for about 9 hours without ever killing it when playing in online lobbies, which to me is a more enjoyable experience than solo play. I didn't kill it once in those 9 hours, and finally gave up on multiplayer. Tried it for an hour or so Solo (mostly just adapting to getting focused the entire fight instead of having the breathing room for sharpening and such that you have in multiplayer) and after maybe 9 or 10 attempts I got it on Solo. After having beaten it and getting access to to the event quests with other players that have beaten it I killed it 6 or 7 times in a row before getting off the game for the night. Just from personal observation I definitely think this fight is easily do-able and fair with enough practice and experience, however the learning curve for it is exceptionally high in my opinion, especially with people like me who are coming from playing with Raw weapons and have limited understanding of how Element damage scales in Monster Hunter. From a game design perspective I agree with you that it's a great thing to push the player out of their comfort zone and get them to try something new, however Monster Hunter has never been (to my knowledge) a game that forced the player in a single direction for itemization and gear choices. It's certainly forced players to play a certain way like with Behemoth, get behind a rock for Ecliptic Meteor, and I think that's definitely healthy for the game, but perhaps not in the way it was done with Alatreon. Another thing is that the Horn break mechanic and Escaton Judgement, while in theory are cool mechanics, really just serve to add artificial difficulty to the fight in my opinion. Alatreon's attacks, while telegraphed and are simple enough to dodge, already add a decent amount of difficulty to the fight, and requires more attention from the player as is than most other monsters. Layering Horns and EJ on top of that, while it serves as an additional layer of difficulty, almost detracts from the basic mechanics of the fight. Having mentioned the learning curve previously, if you layer learning a new weapon type, learning the attack patterns, learning how the fight works, double stacking the goals of suppressing element and breaking horns, regardless of whether or not this is a Black Dragon and an endgame boss, it's just too much to ask from your average player online. If you're struggling with this fight I'd highly recommend reading what you can on how to play an elemental damage type, and working at it solo for the Special Assignment. In doing so you'll learn more about elemental damage and how to deal with this boss, and after you can do online play in the Event quests with other people who have also learned the fight. Those are just my thoughts though, thank you for coming to my TED talk and happy hunting.
well congrats, I'm on 38 hours of gameplay fighting him and I've only beaten it once and oddly enough we had a hacker because we died to every nova but the quest never ended until we beat it...
The fight could be great, if it wasn't for the mechanics not being widely talked about, or misspoke, and that people need to run certain weapon types. Bowgun builds with elements will do great, but melee builds are gonna be in some hurt.
Alatreon is difficult and is arguably the hardest monster on multiplayer because of ai changes but honestly for me in solo he was semi difficult after only taking 2.5 attempts the second one didn’t really count cause I was sleepy and failed the quest in 6 minutes I killed him in 23 minutes which is much shorter than a tempered Barioth hunt which takes 37 minutes and took 2 attempts and frostfang is going to be a nightmare. The point is a black dragon should be tougher than a overgrown saber tooth abomination
I agree with pretty much all of what younsaud; although as Gaijin pointed out, the games should be more transparent about it's systems and mechanics such as: hitzone values (the number of stars are sometimes misleading) or elemental damage being calculated as a separate value on top of your raw damage value despite us only seeing the one damage value upon hit as the total damage of that hit.
One hit kills in MH are usually unsatisfying, simply because they feel overly punishing of single mistakes. Old school Fatalis obliterating you with his toes doesn't exactly feel great. On the other hand, I actually think Nakarkos's bigass death ray is a great example of doing it well. It's telegraphed long in advance, and it has multiple ways to counter it. That's prolly why people dislike the Alatreon thing. The mechanic is invisible, and there's really only one solution. Whether it's fair or not, it just feels limiting for a lot of players
Nakarkos was so well telegraphed that even people who didn't know how to stop it due to that mechanic being so fucking esoteric (who brings tranq bombs to an elder dragon?) could just flat out dodge the beam.
"unsatisfying, simply because they feel overly punishing of single mistakes". I don't feel like not reaching DPS check is A SINGLE MISTAKE, you have plenty of time to hit him and trip, if you dind't, is because you made several mistakes and failed to do enough DMG. Invisible mechanhic? The entire fight, those npc's tell you what to do, in counterpart, Nakarkos only hint for using sleep bomb, is it starting on the chest, and also death ray ins't a problem because you have to really force urself to die twice for this move.
Might as well place my thoughts here: Firstly, I LOVE 90% of Alatreon. Gorgeous sound design. Cool elemental attacks. No mandatory Tenderize like Safi. Doesn't have wind aura (weird now that I think about it), or tremors. Now as for the negatives, let me try to be as objective as possible with this. 1. Alatreon is MR24. This should have NEVER happened. I honestly think this is the biggest reason for all the controversy. MR 100 should have been a minimum. (Same with Raging Brach and Furious Rajang but that's besides the point). And I don't think anyone can disagree on this. 2. DPS checks invalidate a large portion of the game. No not just meta blast sets or whatever. But defense builds, utility builds, meme builds, etc. Even Behemoth and Safi allowed for diversity to a greater extent. A prime example of the extent to which they have not thought about weapon diversity is the elemental value of Switch Axe being the same as Dual Blades. My friends who loves Switch Axe, as well as a lot of other people were so disappointed when they saw that. 2.5) In the one fight where the monster's weaknesses change mid-fight, they don't let you use farcaster. I don't know about others, but this would have been such a cool opportunity for people to have multiple loadouts and swap between them mid-fight. No other hunt really needs this (except maybe Kulve Seige but the first part of that is not even a fight). It would have been such a good use of the tent mechanics. But instead it is all Ice element (or fire) or nothing. This changes nothing in the meta. We just swapped Blast or whatever the meta was, to Ice (or FIre for the other variation of Alatreon event). 3. The game outright hides too much information. I went into the training area, with an ice element weapon and shot the post twice- once with no ice attack up, and once with with max ice attack. The number that popped up was exactly the same. Learning from the community is beautiful and I adore watching videos by RageGaming, TeamDarkSide, NCHProductions, etc. But even I can't stand the fact that element has this much importance with so little (none) information present in the game. What is the difference between 1 star, 2 star and 3 star elemental weakness? Is it the same as status weakness? Who knows. I certainly don't. And this hunt- unlike every other hunt in the game makes it seem like it is punishing you for not knowing things the game itself has hidden. "Use elemental attacks." is not enough information when some elements are far superior than others in some cases. And lastly, my personal opinion on the "No environment to get in the way" line said in the video. To me that sounds like people just want to fight bosses, not monsters. The fact that Monster Hunter World has detailed environments and interactions is a HUGE plus point. The whole point of monster hunter is built up to be like you're fighting real(ish) animals living normally as part of an ecosytem. This is such a unique and powerful plus point in favor of Monster Hunter World. Yes, I am aware that Elder Dragons are supposed to have superior intelligence and stuff (and are somehow capable of defying gravity in their sleep by not falling into a pitfall trap- also known as a hole).
1) Yeah, Raging brachy should have been MR100. I agree. The reason being is because - holy shit power creep! The Raging Brachy armor set is just waaaaay too efficient at adding agitator to your build that it became the new must have. The issue with that, is it means that if you aren't going for Raging Brachy as soon as you're able to, you're technically not being efficient with your time and always be sub-optimal. This is a problem because the fight was balanced for MR100+ gear in mind. So you look at the gear, drool over how good it is, and go into the fight, only to constantly cart unless you never get hit because none of your defense is augmented nor do you have health augment for your weapon. 2) I agree. DPS checks allow the DPS only meta to be proven by the devs that it's the "correct" way to play, which creates a toxic environment for those who don't like glass cannon builds. 3) THIS! This alone makes me wish I could just drop everything and play the game on PC so I can have mods to give me real DPS numbers. I don't need things like HP bars, because I believe that goes against the feel of the game, but when the game demands elemental knowledge without the tools within the game to learn it... I seriously can't blame PC players for having mods that actually GIVE this information, because as a PS4 player, I WANT it! 4) I have to politely disagree with this last one. Epic final encounters in movies, DnD and video games have always had their own final arena, and it's very fitting narrative wise.
@Joe Alexander Looking at Alatreon's shit elemental hitzones, some people will assume it's balanced around Safi and Kulve powercreep meta. I'm not truly offended by how the Escaton Judgement works, but I'm offended with how it is mostly balanced around those unfix-able powercreeps.
Civil Chev on point 2 that’s why they made it an elemental check so you only need max element and maybe max crit if you’re running critical element that’s plenty of room to add defensive skills
Jordan William monster hunter is power creep that’s the entire design philosophy of the game start weak kill stronger monsters and get stronger gear. It’s not a bug it’s a feature and it always has been
@@justinsaunders110 For Max Element the most efficient way is to get a level 5 charm, so this fills up your charm slot. For Crit Element on melee weapons you're only able to use KT because it already has it on the weapon if you're using blademaster, and you need to run three pieces of Teo for Master's Touch to keep up with the sharpness of said weapons, so your last two is either defense gear, or raging brachy because it's more efficient and you gain more out of it. For gunner it's four pieces of Silver los for True Crit Element with one other piece. So please tell me how you can fit in defense while still having Master's Touch / Sharpness+ and max element with crit element.
The hardest part of the hunt was the 5038f-MW1. In all seriousness though, I immediately hated the fight especially when I was still doing it with randos and trying it with lobbies as well. EJ feels like it disragards teh effort each of us are putting in the hunt to pass its dps check. After a while, i resigned myself to soloing it since many others are saying it is much easier. Managed to build the light bowgun from the scraps of failed hunts with full safi β set and managed to beat him finally. It took me a couple of tries, some failing early on while others failed when the skull icon already appeared. After beating it, the struggle of learning the moves and behavior of the monster greatly reminded me of my noob days back in mhfu on the psp and why I fell in love with the seriea to begin with. I admit that I got complacent with mhwi since only a few content is difficult like extremoth and alatreon. That is why this hunt is an eye opener for me. Sorry for the long comment. I just wanted to put my thoughts on this hunt. Thank you for posting his video Gaijin! I wanted to know your thoughts about it as well.
World is my first ever MH, so I was expecting Ala to be tough, but sweet god he was wrecking me and the groups I was in. After a hours of frustrating losses, I started to see I was dealing with his attacks a lot better and now I see he has a lot of openings with his attacks. Even when Ala was wrecking me, I never thought of his fight was "bad", just unfair till I got better. I can reliably pass the dps checks, but I never been a fan of them since they feel like fake difficulty. In regards to randoms, they can be a pain since you literally don't know who you'll get, you can get pass monsters with them. A group of randoms helped me with tempered behemoth back then. I would love to have a group of skilled friends I can rely on to play with in future MH games without them being elitists cause the game is way more fun with a group of friends, but due to my introverted nature, who knows when that'll happen.
One more negative to the horn break mechanic: the whole point that Alatreon uses his horn to control the elements, right? Then why is he able to shift elements when both horn is broken?! Like it doesn't really makes sense in my opinion... Tbh that's my only complaint with him 'cus it creates sort of a second type of dps check... you either kill him before the EJ or you screwed (that happend to me multiple times)
That's interesting, when I've fought him he's always close to enough to death after the second horn break. The only time he's gotten to a 3rd EJ is when we failed to break the horns.
@@SubjectE57 I don't have ps+ (and don't want to farm savi and kulve solo) so I had to use base iceborne equipment wich is a bit lacking... I killed him eventually but I still died twice in the process
This is my only complaint in this hunt. I was surprised on one hunt that it still changed to ice element after the 3rd judgment (and goodness I was wearing Kjarr Ice). I had to tank the last judgment to finish the hunt.
Yes, this is honestly my only issue with the fight. I find that the elemental flinch isn't too hard to hit as long as you're building for it and it's also very easy to break the horns between each EJ. So far every run I've had where we've survived the 3rd EJ, we're just left to die since he still shifts into the opposite element and we can no longer flinch him, despite the fact we were getting the flinches and horn breaks up to that point with ease. Even on solo attempts trying to use fire/ice I'm able to get to the 3rd EJ and then my strategy just devolves into die on every EJ until the quest ends in whichever outcome happens first. Having him locked to his current element after the 2nd horn break feels like the only actual change this fight needs.
I think the thing that hurts the most with Judgement is I don't consider myself a bad player. I'm not a maxed out all the perfect gems and perfect set up hunter but i'm not a casual player. I consider my weapons and set up, I take the time to learn a monsters mechanics. If i die to a monster it's generally because I fucked up and made a mistake, i didn't dodge or i rolled the wrong way ect. But the OHKO punishes you for an arbitrary reason and after a while it just becomes disenheartening and makes you want to stop all together.
This means u are not ready to fight him. Play more get better gear if u wish to conquer. Or don't and cheat, ur game. But no nerf, this literally is the only monster that put up a fight, we tend to keep it and enjoy it. Because other hunts are just slaughters.
I wouldn't say it's arbitrary. This whole monster is based around elements. Makes perfect sense that you need to deal a lot of elemental damage. Escaton adds some urgency to the fight and also forces elemental builds. Alatreon made me grind for an ice build. Once I got my build, hitting the dps check we no sweat
Yeah, but this wants you to be better than "just the person thats a little better than the average hunter" because it forces you to play aggressively, knowing his patterns and knowing when to attack aggressively within his animations even before his attacks finish their animations so that you can dish out more dps.
The game doesn't even teach you how to fight Alatreon "yo do some elemental damage to weaken it" Everything I learned about the monster comes from guides
That does suck, but it's nothing new to World. MH has always sucked a gigaton of ass when it comes to ingame information. World is pretty much the best one when it comes to that.
But this time it's actually very clear. They said it at developer dairy, And when fighting there is hit from NPC. Then every fight NPC will tell you to use element, when element check pass, and breaking horn
@@muzankibutsuji3949 I'm sure a lot of people had to solo freedom unite because of a lack of friends that played it or the lack of access to an internet connection.
Personally I'm sick and tired of MHW's answer to difficulty just being "Add another super nova, but make it even worse this time." Monster Hunter never used to need this for every single monster in the past. I support them taking the item box away from players though.
the nova isnt even close the thing that kills most people, you can get the dps check so fucking quick, i dont know who thinks that the nova is a problem in this fight
As someone who is still fairly new to MHW (e.g. HR14), I like how not ALL of the post-launch additions are strictly endgame monsters. Deviljho, for example, can appear as early as HR13 (I encountered one on literally the first story expedition into Elder's Recess!). But I agree that the _mindset of_ "this post-launch monster MUST be MORE threatening than the last one" is a problem of its own, and the wrong approach to design. Alatreon is an event quest, I get that, but you can't keep cranking the dial up to 11, to 12, then 13, then 14...
One infuriating part of the fight is going into last dragon phase and he wastes your time by flying for 3 whole minutes making you miss the fight by 1000 damage
I liked the fight until the EJ, I just can't seem to hit the DPS check no matter how I play. (GS main) i can brake the horns like twigs but in this eteration means nothing.been playing on/off since 4u and this is the first time I can safely say, this fight doesn't feel like a MH fight it feels like an MMO fight because of the dps checks. A OHKO that's un avoidable no matter what you do unless you meet the threshold. That's what pushed me to not like this fight. Still trying and adapting to him and just not good enough to beat him. IMO the only change I'd make to this fight is get rid of the DPS check and tie the nova streghth to the amount of horns broken, that would be great. you could still survive and manage to kill him eventually and would only worry about getting hit by his attacks. I also agree with your thoughts on the matter and the Behemoth comparisons were on point. Thanks for this video.
@giuseppe zavaglia no.... I will not a adapt... I will use best wepon [Berioth] gs and will be victorious in about 30 minutes from fight start. Which I have already done in groups and solo. Still need wings though. Gonna need to see a guid for that maybe hbg crit draw? Might work and this fight still after defining him twice still doesn't feel like a mh fight. Just feels like an MMO boss raid to me.
@giuseppe zavaglia bad MMO gimmick, mate. It's literally the only thing people are complaining about. Good of you to dodge it completely by stating non-arguments like some braindead zombie.
One of my frustrations is that even if you pass the DPS check you have to heal through the Nova or it will still kill you. That’s not a very satisfying reward.
@TheBuragi healing isnt routine if you do good, its annoying that theres a part of the fight that forces you to use your resources because you did the fight RIGHT, when thats not how the entire rest of the game works
Really? I never thought it was unsatisfying because all I needed was a single well timed Astera Jerky lol. Hell, Escaton is basically free damage for you because you can attack it while it's charging up and still manage to heal the damage after because that move takes forever to charge up.
@@necromancer1983x You could do it but you need to prepare a lot and probably need to watch at least two alatreon guides and also assemble a squad of people you can communicate with and if you do that you'll probably be able to do it on your 5th try or so
Demi Ajomale any lbg that can do ice fire or both as rapid can smash him and only prep you need is jerky and meds to keep health yellow usem as he does wind up then nova and you are fine his aggressive style and big aoe hits are the worst parts not his dps check nova since solo that dps check isnt that bad given he has less health solo plus you can break his horn to prevent dragon mode and lock his element type. overall he is soloable and if you look at older games black dragon solo required peak gear items and play it isnt the case here
GaijinHunter has definitely nailed a lot about the general idea and where the problems are with Alatreon and OHK moves, but there is one other thing that bothers me about it that isn't quite captured in this video. It's that the OHK moves just feel like a gimmick, and kind of a cheap one. Once you've overcome this issue a couple times, it's just no longer fun anymore. There is something special about fighting a monster that is strictly just difficult, with no gimmicks of any kind and it's just about Monster Hunter at its core principles. Personally all of my favorite fights are the far more conventional ones, like Zinogre, Brachydios, Shara Ishvalda, and Gogmazios. It's important to remember that gimmicks can be done well though, where it doesn't feel cheap like with Gore Megala and Dalamadur. It's about making it interesting without creating a harsh binary condition. Of course MHW:I is still a fantastic game and without the gimmick, Alatreon is still a fantastic fight. It wouldn't be worth complaining and arguing about it if Capcom wasn't so close to perfection already.
If you're referring to escaton judgement. I actually love it. Compared to other monsters there's a sense of urgency here. No other monster has made me feel that urgency. I've killed him many times now and he's kinda made other monsters a bit boring. I'm stuck in the grinding lands doing mindless hunts rn and I often find myself trying to help other hunters with alatreon instead just because the fight is so fun. I don't think his one shot feels like a gimmick and I like the stress it adds to the fight.
"It's that the OHK moves just feel like a gimmick, and kind of a cheap one. Once you've overcome this issue a couple times, it's just no longer fun anymore" THIS RIGHT HERE! This is the reason why I do not really enjoy Alatreon that much despite being able to beat in 10 minute or less. Once you get ahold on it, there is no urgency in this move, it's just kind of there. It either just kills you or it doesn't. And both isn't fun. You either see a move incoming you are not allowed to avoid, causing frustration, or a move that barely does anything.
@@MrEinFan If your playing solo there was never a urgency there to being with, you can casually suppress that mechanic on solo play. Multiplayer however the urgency still exist. The problem i see here is that solo play needs the numbers buffed a bit.
The first time I fought behemoth and I realized they not only disable Guts, Moxie, Guard Up, dodge dive, but Farcaster as well, I was practically dumbfounded. What shocked me so was not the challenge of the fight, but the extent they had desecrated the skills, items, and moves I grew up with just to make artificial, cheating, gimmicked difficulty. Not to sound overly dramatic, but I literally felt violated. I felt insulted. I felt cheated. I felt nerfed. That’s not a good feeling. Some try to counter argue with “git gud”, but this concept has nothing to do with what my opinion in based in. I’ve been with the series since MH1 on PS2 and cleared Extremoth before Iceborne. Skill is a nonissue for me. Principal, fairness, and fun is my issue here, and I find OHK checks to be lacking in all these areas. The Monster Hunter I fell in love with was better than this and I feel disappointed in the direction World has taken the series in this specific regard.
Ever since I made my critical element/safi build, I completely love the fight precisely because escaton becomes an afterthought. At the beginning I hated the monster, but once I took the elemental thing seriously, I love the fact that I have a reason to really go all out with elemental builds, something that was pretty much useless before
I'd call Ecliptic Meteor more BS than Escaton Judgement. Judgement you can at least keep from being a team kill by being active and just fighting like feels correct to do. Ecliptic Meteor you just have to accept it when it starts coming down and if the comets all got destroyed, placed to close to a wall, or a tornado got put to close to them, your team just eats the death (unless they are really good with the jump gesture), no amount of fighting or active play style fixes those problems once the problems are made.
@bananacush lol, sure. If it’s regular behemoth it’ll be cake. For extreme it’s gonna take a little bit of effort. I guess we can figure out a window that’ll work and post the session ID, I’ll pop in and we can do it.
Overall, Alatreon is one of the best fights in the game. Everything outside of Escaton Judgment is beautifully done and it reminds me a lot of old world Rajang. He's relentless and hits hard, but is VERY punishable. I'm conflicted on Escaton Judgment. I love it because it pushes a number of people(myself included) out of their convenience zone of raw/status that works well on pretty much everything. I've only realized the enjoyment of making elemental sets because of this OHKO. I hate it mainly because of multiplayer. One full Escaton Judgment can instantly end the hunt. I'd like for them to elevate the requirements to at LEAST MR 100 before anyone is able to join/initiate the quest. This would mean that the people hunting him would already have the resources to make appropriate sets.
That's the worst part about all this. The fight itself is fun. His hitboxes are fair, his attacks are well animated, etc... But they creating a fucking miserable mechanic that tosses over half the weapons in the game into the trash, creates massive incentive to play the hunt solo, AND requires a type of build 99% of the game doesn't require (elemental). It's like making someone a beautiful meal, but there's a steaming turd on top. Come on, Capcom.
RicochetForce yet this addresses a problem that no one wants to recognize as a problem. In general most builds are raw or blast, with poison in tow. Even merely suggest a fight to require anything else than that becomes persecuted as bad design. It is, in my opinion, a bad mentality that isn't recognized because perhaps a vast majority use it -- a tyranny of the majority that will blame Capcom first rather than recognize the pitfalls of their rigid, static, and even sometimes defeatist mindset.
I always went for elemental damage, since the beginning of the game, they told me "hey, this monster is weak to this element" so I used that element. And I had a lot of fun playing that way, at least that way I have a reason to hunt a big variety of monsters, trying out which weapon I like more, and not centering on usin the same weapon for the entire game.
I play aerial Insect Glaive and the amount of people telling me I deal no damage made me invest in elemental sets. But now I only fly when the monster is enraged to not waste the damage from flinch shots (vs. accidental mounts).
In my experience, only the special assignment is pain because you have loads of clueless people who go in with raw weapons. I needed like 20 tries before I beat him online but afterwards doing the event quest, most people know what they are doing.
The pain comes not from the lack of knowledge of the hunt. Anyone can arm themselves with elemental weapons. That's not what people are complaining about. The monster is not unbeatable. With enough patience, anyone can solo it. What people are complaining about is the execution of said tactics. Punishing raw and status weapon users with unavoidable carts shows that the Monster Hunter team don't think about their player base at all. It seems as childish as the time they took away slicing ammo and nerfed it so much it became useless (or should I say, impractical?) If I was to describe the devs of this game in one word, it would be "immature."
@@Spore9996 ye, i had a pierce hbg set up to RUIN this guy like nergi, but not only did they make him resistant to physical ammo, but also theres little to no good explanation on how much elem dmg you will be doing with each shot. Theres only 2 lbgs that this fight likes and its alatreons dominator and soulfire rasp blaze
I am done with the armor and am now farming him for his weapons. Overall, I much enjoy this fight. But because I always hunted him in a group, I had a hard time noticing good, punishable openings. So I tried my first solo hunt, which took a lot of time, much longer than with a coordinated group. Coming to forming a group to fight him, it is really hard. Whenever I hunt in a random group in a lobby (Not doing S.O.S. flares), I double check the gear of my partners and ask of them to cover the necessary elements. That is one thing I noticed the game lacked heavily compaired to older titles: Communication. People barely communicate with each other, or planned the hunt beforehand. But by doing that, we managed nearly every hunt against him. Yesterday I went into a hub with a few friends and noticed people starting a fight because they failed the quests, calling out the other for bad gear. That is not helping. That is not going to improve your success rate. Give constructive criticism and suggestions. The dps check is managable. Even without Safi weapons, there are still good alternatives when it comes to element, and I don't mean a different weapon class entirely. But for Alatreon, we have to roll back and think! He is tough. He is a black dragon, a walking catastrophe. We have to adapt to it. And the most important advice I can give her...is to never give up. Alatreon can be an extremely frustrating fight and when loss after loss comes, of course you get angry. But the one who loses is the one who stays on the ground. You get up, take a deep breath, and plan for the next round. I wish you all good luck! You can do this!
"People buy MH to play online" And then there is me, who bought the game because I can perfectly do most of the content solo, so I don't need to pay for PS+
@@MonoHamtaro I unironically did. It isn't really hard, just takes a long time. Just put something in the background while playing, maybe a podcast or something, then put the ps4 in rest mode instead of turning it off, and bam, solo safi.
I love the new Alatreon fight, it's definitely his best fight yet. That being said, what I don't like about the way to cancel out escaton judgement is that, before this one fight, you could beat any MH monster with virtually any weapon, this one fight breaks that aspect of Monster Hunter that I've honestly always found really cool.
Yeah it's how I feel too. You build specific sets of gear for tough monsters but at the end of the day, you're still able to beat them even if you're not fully optimized. The DPS check doesn't really allow that and it's a lot more restrictive.
I'll be honest, I was one of those bashing it at the start, but I have several clears now and it is really not that bad. I've been playing multiplayer with randoms as well. Sometimes the team can be hit or miss, but the main problem has been people just carting to his regular attacks, escaton judgement hasn't even been the cause of my failures once. Repetition is key. Everyone can bring in a good set and learn the fight eventually. P.S. I still don't really agree with the whole OHKO mechanic in monster hunter, but it is definitely manageable with practice and knowledge of the monster. Cheers hunters!
The problem with escaton is not that it kills you. It probably wont. But it means that you are not allowed to play the game like you want to. Especially with playstyles that dont work with elements at all.
@TheBuragi See, i have no problem with preparing for and endgame fight. New armor, weapon that works better with the build, specialized item sets and skills that help. Solo farming 136+ Guild quests in 4u needet that. Apex Jho/Jang without at least the rocksteady skill is a no no. But the most brutal quests in any other monsterhunter, quests that are far more difficult never made me feel like my choice of weapon type was not up for the task. Elemental Damage sucks for alot of weapons. If element was vialble i wouldn't mind making elemental sets for all my weapons, but it is just bad. You can do the fight with everything when playing solo, just cart on Ej and nowhere else and you can pull through. But i want to play multiplayer and also not be detrimental to the team, so i pick a weapon that actually works with element but is much less enjoyable, do the fight once or maybe twice if someone wants his stuff for completionism and than go back to the quests were i can play my weapons. Its only one fight so whatever, but i still think its bad design.
@@zaifir8119 This information probably hasn't made the rounds widely enough yet but the EJ weakening has a modifier that ends up helping less elemental weapons get a bit more elemental damage towards weakening EJ. For example, DBs get a 0.6 elemental modifier towards weakening while GS gets a 1.1 modifier helping to make up some of that difference.
Your channel helped me a ton in MH4U and it’s been a blast coming back to the channel when I got MHGU. Love your videos on World even though the game isn’t for me.
I feel like the ohk move should've been a move similar to valstrax's big dive move when u get hit by it. Instead of killing the players outright, it should take 90% of their max health. That's create enough tension since you'll be using your healing items still and you still can't go back to camp to restock. Just have alatreon recover from his big attack sooner and have him start wailing on the players sooner to keep that tension high. Josh on pro/noob did a video about it and does a better job of explaining it
Ya but whats stoping players from saving temporal mantle and healing through it.or still using the health booster to recover while the monster is still in animation. The dps check should be lessened if it was easier to hit most ppl would be fine.
Valstrax’s dive is also pretty boring to actually fight, but I like the idea of making Alatreon recover sooner while having the tail state for the attack not be instant death. This would also balance the attack better for multiplayer since instead of KOing everyone at once, Alatreon would still have to pick them off one at a time.
Latrodectus mactans they could also make alatreon have a third level of aggro after the supernova move so all players have one hp left and they’re forced to fight a faster stronger alatreon with fear
I say that video and it does a really good job at explaining why Alatreon feels so frustrating, the pay off to passing the skill check is so little compared to what you lose if you don't and even if the fight is fair, psychologically, the mechanic is just too frustrating
I've been an active player of MH games for over a decade. I've played every one I could get my hands on, and consider myself very capable. However, this quest is infuriating to me; mostly because I don't have friends who still play Iceborne, leaving me to either solo the quest or kneel at the mercy of the SOS flare. What you said about relying on randos is completely true- it's almost certain failure. That leaves me to solo it, though breaking the horns or meeting the elemental DPS requirement is made substantially more difficult as I'm left to face the brunt of the attacks myself. I love everything about the fight except for the OHKO. The attacks are varied, the music is great, the stage is cinematic, etc. Alatreon has been one of my favorites since its introduction, so I'm stubbornly refusing to give up just yet.
Some Tips: If he flies use 3 Smoke bombs and some new ones. He search for you and land on the ground. When you got past the dps check and uses his Ult, use 2 jerkey for the red health bars timed. When you toppeld him 2 times before judgement you can only use one jerkey and if you like a potion
I find it easier solo, I can easily knock it down within 2-3 mins when using Kjarr elemental weapons (except dragon ones). And it only take 1k2-1k3 dmg to break the horn during it's dragon stance. While in multiplayer people don't even know you should break the horn
Honestly never use an SOS flare for these types of endgame hunts. Search for a lobby via online filter search. Everyone will be in the gathering hub and focused on completing the quest. In general, everyone is going to be more competent than your standard SOS flare rando.
It took me about 10 attempts to clear the special assignment with randoms (I'm sure it could have taken a lot longer and I consider myself lucky), but the randoms you are matched with in the event quests are much better as they have already killed Alatreon and know what's up.
I don't hate Alatreon,i hate the elitists that act like an asshole everytime someone say they are having trouble with Alatreon.Yes i'm talking about you Mr."Huh duh just solo it bro" and Ms."Omg just git gud"
Kinda sad isn't it. I've seen the mess it left behind whenever someone dared to say anything against the elemental DPS check. Just e-peen after e-peen boasting from the same meta licking dung-stains. I don't hate Alatreon either, I really like his fight and it's tons of fun. And I'm confident enough to say that many people do too, it's just that one single thing that's a downer for them and that is the DPS check killing them (and me). That is the only thing people have anything against and these guys that use 'git gud' as a catchphrase don't understand that.
@TheBuragi That almost sounds like an assumption that I'm still struggling with the assignment. As for the angry at people saying 'just solo it' part, I'm actually more mad at people that talk down at anyone that even remotely struggles with anything and going about crying how terrible it is playing with others online. Well, wouldn't you know it but I almost exclusively play with random people online and while the special assignment was a bit of a struggle, it got done in the end and cleared a good few hunts with said randoms. They aren't anywhere near as bad as people are making them out to be. In the end of it all I'm just sick of people starting petty flexes whenever something pops up that someone else isn't a fan of and that EJ that Alatreon has got going on in World is it. everything else about Alatreon is fine as is.
@TheBuragi Sigh... welp, I just had to open my mouth... "You have to realise the opposing side is veterans that played old MH titles" Oh? And I haven't? I started with 3U (on the 3DS so... never got to play online until 4U) and I fought Alatreon there. He kicked my ass many times, but eventually got there, done him, you get the idea. And *you* also need to realize that it's not the fight itself people have been complaining about. It's. Just. That. DPS check nonsense. That's all I'm saying, that's all I think I should allow myself to talk to you with before either one of us throws a punch at the monitor and just leave it at that while I go about my day as usual. Oh and... "There weren't many all purpose meta sets"? Really? Hold that thought. (Flashback to my time playing 4U, Gen and GenU of tons of people wearing the same meta set towards the endgame.) Hmmm...
The fight is meant to be hard. I watched a stream of someone play and he had been running the quest, shoot, i cant even say how long. He said during the stream he had been running for weeks. Some of us asked him to check his build and we basically told him the build was holding him back. He didn't relent for a while because he said he invested a lot of time into his build (it was a dragon sa build). He couldn't clear the check consistently because he was using a dragon weapon. During that same stream, he was able to defeat the monster ON THE FIRST TRY. Why? Because he took our recommendations and built for ice. Sometimes you just gotta look for what you can do differently and try to make adjustments.
@@7th-derp41 the dps check is there to force players to be aggressive and to prevent players from cheesing the monster. Would it have been better if they made his attacks less telegraphed, gave you less windows to punish, and gave him a 20 minute time limit? It would have been the same thing - "the time limit is too hard. Why would they only give us 20 minutes for this monster?" Most people are ok with the fight otherwise - yeah, because alatreon is not that difficult outside of that pressure dps check. He has very forgiving hitboxes and his attacks are very telegraphed with long windows for applying damage if you have good positioning. Anyone thats having difficulty with the check needs to create a build that will allow them to pass the check and they need to maintain pressure on the monster. Dont have the gear to pass the check? You can always ask someone who's beaten it what works and create a similar build? Or make your own and see what works. I made several builds to test out what works before I figured out a build that I like and allows me to clear the check. If you feel you have a good build, check your damage. Maybe you're spending too much time trying to reposition and not dealing enough damage. Ill tell the dragon weapon users this though - it takes A LOT of dragon to cross the threshold. I know a lot of people want to run dragon because it means you don't have to break his horns, but there's a cost that goes with that element choice...
From my point of view, having a "You lose" state in a game like monster hunter seems a bit off. In every other monster hunter game there's been counterplay to a monster's "Big move" Whether it's gittin gud and dodging or flinching it, there was always a way to deal with it but with Ala there's no sense of "I can back off and regroup." You just lose if you don't do it and that doesn't feel very monster hunter to me. Thinking back to fights like bloodbath Diablos, even when it was spinning out of control and jumping out of the ground like the drill from hell, you could alway deal with it but this is a move that says "You lose" and that doesn't seem to fair. Mhw has a problem with monsters having massive "Inescapable" F U moments that seem a bit messed up to dodge all the time and this just feels like the cherry on top. The way I see it, this basically says mhw, now with an instant death and no counterplay. Aside of course passing the dps check. The fight itself is good enough without something as frustrating and anti fun as judgment. I say anti fun because no one likes seeing him take a fifteen second long animation to wipe your entire party and end your quest because you didn't dps hard enough. I don't know man, it feels wrong.
It feels more like something you'd see in a raid, like in a game like Destiny. "Do enough damage to this boss before he wipes you" and then restart for hours til you get it
Yeah the team behind world and iceborne seem to be getting a little obsessed with adding in over the top flair in their fights. I get these monsters are supposed to be big and bad. But there are other ways to express that intention than giving monsters super modes or extremely powerful big bang moves. The worst part is that some of these ohko moves can bug out and kill the players unfairly (looking at you Safi), not to mention that while it's fun to see it once or twice by the 10th time you're seeing safi nuke the arena the spectacle is basically dead.
@@matthewbailey2744 I'm glad it's not just me noticing the trend. Then there's G-rank Lunastra. It's a trend that could have ended with Ala. The hunt is challenging on its own, doesn't need a balls to the wall anus breaking attack because the hunt in itself has all the things it needs. You can't infinite heal, you can't run, it's literally an old school monster hunt but faster. It just feels cheap to have something like "Lolgg" in monster hunter.
I have been very vocal about alatreon on twitter mostly about this subject so I will try to keep my opinion brief, I feel that while alatreon can be learned, defeated and in some cases toyed with it doesnt change the fact that his dps check and the race to stop it have problems built into it that make it feel very anti monster hunter to alot of the community And an addition to the behemoth comparison, behemoths instant death was acceptable because it was entirely skill based, he summoned comets and it became your job to kite him away and guard them with your life but still keep enough distance to run back ito them in time. Alatreons is based solely on your damage output there is no survival for the solely skilled, only the aggressive Extremoths dps check was also any damage and on a monster that was a large not very mobile target. Alatreons dps check is elemental only and on a smaller much more agile and flying target
Dude, Alatreon's DPS check is SO fucking easy to meet that I just use it for free damage. Toppling him 2-3 times before the first nova is unbelievably common (I play in multiplayer). I have done this on Greatsword, Hammer, Longsword, and Dual Blades. Most of the weapons I mentioned here are "bad" for element according to the community. Why did I make it work? Because I have good gear and I play well. Those are the secrets, both of which are VERY Monster Hunter.
@@xhephergaming Good, you're good at speed running the game. I'm used to fights giving me 50 minutes to complete. I can take my time, play carefuly, and enjoy the game that way. I can beat Alatreon on my own, but I don't like to be rushed.
@@chewbacachunks8644 I agree and disagree, skilled can equate to the aggression needed to put alatreon down, but if for example you spent your world and iceborne time becoming skilled at a say defensive lance play style or a supportive horn style your skill does not equate to putting Alatreon down and your time and skill is wasted. And im aware it something to be adapted to, to evolve and learn from I respect the opinion you have and wont be against you for it but thats how I view it for the time being
@@xhephergaming well constructed gear and good play are very monster hunter I wont contest that and I congratulate you on your skill What makes it feel very anti monster hunter is its restriction of player choice, play style and it takes focus away from the monster You fight a safi with your weapons, your choice of playstyle and you go into the hunt preparing for safi You fight alatreon with weapons you may be unfamiliar with, a playstyle you may not have fostered and you go into the hunt preparing for ecaton judgment not alatreon himself And while I will concede this mechanic has a home in monster hunter an immediate fail state do or die should be reserved for siege monsters (and behemoth but hes a special angry dogo) I will also concede that there is nothing wrong with building for a difficult monster to take advantage of its fight or weaknesses, but doing it for alatreon isnt for making it easier or doing something different or fun, an alatreon focused killing build is a necessity to succeed, there is no variety or choice in the matter people can get better, improve, adapt and eventually defeat the blazing black alatreon hell I can do the cha cha slide around him for as long as need be, that still doesnt mean its a fight not to be criticised or without fault
An extra note for horn break: the areas that you can wall-slam Alatreon is so small that you can easily rotate it past the spot with the clutch claw. This causes even more frustration because the other consistent method of bringing Alatreon down to hit its horns is an elemental break during dragon form, which can also prove difficult since fire/ice is less effective during dragon form. After completing the entire armor set, I just really want them to make the wallslam hitboxes easier to work with (especially since it's hard to communicate where to keep Alatreon during a fight online)
@@ShawnBaalHeath Well slams are pretty reliable as long as he's lined up right. Does require you to keep tabs on the nearest wall and his orientation though so waiting for him to fly up or use an attack that makes him fly to then floor-bang is much easier most of the time. One time, I had him lined up with the wall almost perfectly during the fight, he was off to the left by a small margin and just watching him run at this huge boulder without givin a fok, without even smashing into it was pretty irritating
I love how he fights, I just hate EJ. If it was more like Safi with like, one place to hide, I'd be fine. Should they reward a particular play style with hunts? Absolutely, elemental damage should be allowed to do extra to this unstable boi while raw isn't as effective. I just don't think players should necessarily be forced into a playstyle since it has always been "use whatever you want, just be good enough to do it."
It's fun new mechanic IMO I mean if every monster is just hit it till it's dead than what's the point of elemental weapons? What's the point of namielle's element increase skill?
Saufan Softlan elements do damage? You’re still just hitting him until he’s dead. It’s just a chore. We already have a DPS check mechanic: the hunts have a timer. What’s the point of the timer if you couldn’t possibly reach it because there’s 4 instakill moves before the time runs out?
I feel like it's to change up the meta, because everyone would use the same weapons and not change up your strategy throughout the whole game. And this is coming from a guy who still hasn't killed Alatreon yet in World
Donkilla28 I am absolutely fine with this fight changing the meta. They could have done this in several ways though: pumped up his hp and then made him vulnerable to more elemental damage. OHK DPS check is literally the most artificial way they could have done it, and instead of feeling like it’s rewarding players for finding the best way to fight, it feels like they’re punishing people who don’t do it in one specific way.
i love the alatreon fight, but i'm getting sick of these big attacks that just involve everyone standing around and waiting. these are supposed to be ultimate village destroying attacks and the reaction i'm supposed to have instead of trying to get out of the way is to just stand there and wait for it to happen. it just adds boring routine to an exciting hunt. i feel like the horn mechanic is good though, letting you control what the monster can do and disabling it's power with part breaks is one of the staples of monster hunter (cut tail to shorten tail attacks, break wings to discourage flying, break arms and legs to reduce movement, head to reduce breath attacks). this just feels like another unique way of implementing that which, in this case, affects your damage capability as well as the threat the monster poses depending on your elemental resistances (at least it seems like it favors certain elemental attacks over others). overall, the escaton judgment attack just feels like a cheap gimmick used to artificially add "difficulty" to what was supposed to be an epic fight. it's a stain on what was supposed to be a fun fight
someone's counter build reminded me of another point. although iceborne made great strides to make elemental weapons more viable, elements on weapons are still very niche compared to just using raw. raw benefits all weapons and is good against any monster and can naturally crit with extra damage from crit boost (crit boost itself is kind of a problem by existing) element still only seems to benefit certain weapons and is only good against certain monsters and really only if you hit them in specific spots (like how banbaro's best elemental hitzone is a 25 on his head and that's the best you get). you also need to get a set bonus skill in order for element to crit at all and last time i checked, crit boost doesn't affect it at all. it also is impacted by sharpness more than raw so any elemental weapon with less than purple is already under-performing. the reason i bring this up is that this fight feels like the developers have given up on trying to make elemental builds useful for everyone and just force it upon us whether we like it or not. i wish elements were actually useful to everyone, it would give weapon choice actual meaning before a hunt, but right now, you have to work really hard to make it work in your favor. imagine if, in pokemon, tackle did more damage than water gun against a fire type pokemon.
Deviljho tempered has just more attack -ppl called artficial Lunastra had a more complex and faster moveset, but don't hitted so hard -ppl called artificial Behemoth had a ton of new mechanhics, all with ways to evade -ppl called artificial Arch Nerg had a ton of hp =ppl called artificial Alatreon hasn't a TON of hp, nor drink 90% of health with one tail swipe, nor has very fast and complex moveset, but still artificial..... I really don't think the problems is the devs here, it's just ppl not wanting hard fights, and instead of accepting it, and dropping the quest, they just whine on everything that makes them fail more than five times.
Solo Alatreon is far easier than in a group though. In multiplayer, the monster has more health and teammates can die and fail the quest. It’s more of a feat to beat alatreon in a team imo.
I want to love this fight, but that polarizing Escaton Judgement is a hurdle I've struggled to get past. I have tried since his release to defeat him and there was only ONE time I got close. I have a meta set, but its more geared towards 'immortality' than to high DPS/Elemental damage. Soloing this monster is tricky for me because I struggle with keeping up with the fast paced attacks sometimes and that ends up with me carting or just scrambling around trying to keep my health bar up. So I turn to the online community and I have been apart of a lot crappy teams, some ok teams, and one really great team. ... ... ... One trend I noticed yesterday and the day before were people withdrawing from the quest should anyone cart at all (even with insurance or safeguard) or within 5 seconds of Alatreon going to Dragon active and the horns not getting broken by a flinch shot. I think the people who have the friends to coordinate this hunt are going "Well the judgement isn't that bad" because they don't necessarily have to subject their hunts to the fate of 3 random people who might not be able to meet the requirements. The opposite don't get that luxury and thus are the ones voicing the mechanic is terrible. ... ... I think the idea of getting players out of their comfort zone is a great idea and I feel Monster Hunter should capitalize a little bit on that more often. Maybe not to the extreme that Alatreon, Kulve, and Behemoth have gone, but again none of those fights are impossible either so it doesn't matter. I do think however the Escaton Judgement should not be as black and white. I think it should be something that is 1) NOT SCRIPTED and 2) SURVIVABLE REGARDLESS. Alateron is supposed to be unstable and shifting elements considerably. I think the DPS check should be tossed out the window or significantly lowered so that it is always possible to survive the Judgement and the judgement can be more random and add to the chaotic levels of the fight.
At least on this fight, making Escaton not a punishment is just not getting player out of their comfort zone, healing anyone can do, so elemental weapoms whouldnt very important, so no changes on their builds. And believe me, Escaton is just a problem for most randoms cause Alatreons moveset is kinda hard to get, and this will literally happens with any hard quest, randoms play without thinking, and say its a games fault. Theres no way these people will keep dying to a monster, and then say their death was fairplay, the simple act of failing the Quest more than fives times will make them whine.
Tarkus has a point. If ppl can’t get passed fights within their first like 1-3 tries, usually (not alaways, but most of the time) they will deem it terrible and bad mechanics jus cause they couldn’t unga bunga their way through it with only raw and blast. Capcom gave everybody the chance to get their stuff well preped and ready and close to no one took the chance, and sorry, there’s a pandemic happening right now. You’re telling us for how long the event quests have been out and how long the quarantine has been happening, you guys couldn’t do any form of farming before hand? It’s not capcoms fault or the other players telling you to “git gud”, it’s your own damn fault for not taking advantage of the blatant long time you could have been farming. Escaton is fair and balanced, ppl jus need to learn the elemental weaknesses of the monsters (which shouldn’t be tough cause if you made it passed iceborne’s story, you should have basically all info on all monsters). Make an ice build ffs, use the beotodus tree for budget ice set ups that can still wreak and safi is out right now so you can farm his beta set. I will repeat myself, it’s not capcoms fault, it’s YOUR fault.
It’s all in fun honestly. They’re just seeing what we can do at the moment. They’re giving us Barioth next month, so those of us who couldn’t kill him now... will be able to.
I feel like they should have given us frostfang before alatreon because then we have a new monster to fight that we can also farm for ice gear for alatreon instead of farming old monsters. It just makes more sense to me
His moveset is insanely good, makes you really think when to attack, where to move, when to heal up etc. But man his EJ just makes this annoying and artificially hard because its literally a dps check race against type of thing. I did manage to solo it but by no means was it fun becaude of EJ making you think about it all the time and messing up with you.
*Brofists.* I had a very similar experience to you, as I love 99% of the Alatreon fight, and had the same frustration with the Escaton Judgement attack.
I feel like there is a key difference between encouraging a player to play a certain way, and forcing a player to play a certain way, and alatreon's DPS check feels like the latter.
I'd argue forcing player isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if it happens only for few hunts. It gives you a challenge you have to adapt to overcome. I mean that's the charm of the arena quests afterall.
@Loyal Sapphire No offense taken, I get where you're coming from. I was extremely frustrated with him in the first couple hours as well. But the true spirit of Monster Hunter has always been learning more about a monster and building sets and strategies to help with the difficulties you're having, and ultimately, Hunt the monster. Can't pass the elemental check? Build around fortify. Can't break the horns? Build around part breaker. The "meta" sets that are flowing around the internet are impeding so many players from actually having fun with the game because they lack the versatility of armor building. People who refuse to use blast resistance on Raging Brachy because they "lose out on dps", then complain about how the blasts are so annoying. I see this as the same thing.
@@kevintseng119 I always hated that in this game the concept of "flawless victory" was scrapped completely. Unavoidable damage was already bad, and then they went the extra mile and added OHK that wipe out the party immediately...I feel old. I feel like an old man seeing the new generation and hating it, right along with me saying "back in my day we used to". This sucks. I'm gonna go play Gen U now.
@@Chaosdogg47 You can achieve a flawless victory by using elemental weapons and breaking his horns. Don't tell me as a veteran you just went through Gen U using 1 weapon, 1 set of armor and did no strategizing for your "flawless victories". By the way, "back in the days" we used to play with a wiki open on the side to learn how to deal with each monster effectively. If your goal in the game is to achieve a "flawless victory" in every hunt, then that's an even better reason to go in with an optimized set and strategy instead of the "let me play the way I want" mentality.
Personally; I feel that the Escaton Judgement gimmick single-handedly ruins an otherwise great fight, and I think the way they've done Escaton Judgement is mostly due to them trapping themselves behind the huge level of powercreep they've brought into the game with previous updates.
It's not that hard to get past Escaton tbh just don't die and do damage and you'll pass the threshold. Ik it's alot more complicated cause you need to learn the fight but it's not that hard either.
@@Nims_24 Oh, it's not hard. What makes The Escaton Gimmick bad is just how artificial the difficulty it adds is. Fail the check, take damage. Pass the check, still take damage, it's just easier to heal through it. There's very little, if any reward to actually passing the check.
Lol just heal bro don't say it sucks cause u gotta waste one astera jerky during the Escaton. Like it's just a part of the fight that is easily avoidable if u just learn the fight and bring the gear needed. Its something different and it makes people work for it instead of handed to them.
@@manbat4582 As I've already stated. Problem is, a mechanic not being hard doesn't stop it from being a bad mechanic or from artificially inflating the difficulty.
At first I was on the negative side of thinking concerning Alatreon as I was having so much trouble beating it in multiplayer. BUT I entered another multiplayer hunt and lost connections to the servers which forced me to fight it solo...and I beat it! I had no issue hitting the elemental damage check, my only issue was forgetting to break the horns which cost me a cart lol. Not trying to be rude but looking back on it as I tried to join multiplayer again after beating it...I noticed many players either had poor builds (getting affected by blights and not fully upgrading armor), weren’t using an elemental weapon or sadly lacked skill. I know sometimes you have a bad hunt where you cart multiple times and fail the quest, it’s happened to me quite a few times. However a lot of people had bad positioning and seemed to not be able to properly land attacks unless Alatreon was knocked down or wall bounced. Honestly I feel like a lot of people got too comfortable with multiplayer hunts. Very few monsters have AoE attacks assuming they have one at all, but nearly all of Alatreon’s are AoE which means positioning and reading Alatreon’s movement before attacks are key for the fight. People are to quick to blame something else instead of looking in the mirror and realizing they are doing something wrong.
Most of the time I failed killing this was because of very immediate attacks or one hit kill combos. "He get's you! You're dead" kinda of combos. Most of his attacks are very difficult on the dark souls scale, but some as the flame blast are a bit wonky for me. The flame ball to the ground had some very weird hit boxes, where I would stand juuuuust a little too close, but wouldn't feel like it connected to the explosions. The ground slam was my down fall, really crappy move where he would get me in the middle of my recovery window, I wouldn't be able to dodge it, I would be slammed in the ground, and destroyed by a following attack. The lightining. It deals a whole lot of damage, if it was tunned to be just a little weaker, it would make the fight more fun for me. In regards to the dps check. It was really easy.
SpiderMan45 Combos? The only thing Alatreon does that feels like a combo is his dashes with dragon energy as it’s able to do it back to back 3 times. Aside from that there isn’t really any other attack that’s a combo. The only attack it has that comes out “fast” is it’s straight line fire breath when on the ground. Also, unless you were pinned, you don’t take damage after being knocked down. So don’t press buttons to quickly get up if Alatreon is still targeting you, as being knocked down protects you from damage. Learn the timing of Alatreon’s attacks, the vast majority of it’s moves are telegraphed and his lightning attacks are some of the easiest to avoid. The ground literally glows and gives you enough time to dodge. I would advise you to practice against Kirin and Stygian Zinogre to improve your dodges.
I died, the I ate and dropped back in. I land directly in front of Alateron and pull out my HBG to block with guard 5. He flash attacks and flies through ne hitting me before the animation of the HBG allows me to block and then drops a fireball on my head while I'm getting up. 2nd KO. I drop back in and he instantly uses Judgement. With some monsters it's bad design as much as it is bad players. This is an example of one such monster.
Eric Lindros One time I joined a Tempered Rajang multiplayer quest and got drunk birded into Rajang’s beam and carted immediately. Does that mean Rajang is poorly designed? NO! You get unlucky sometimes. Alatreon is not poorly designed, you had a rough hunt. If you pay attention to Alatreon’s telegraphs before it’s attacks, then you should be able to time your get ups after you get hit so you’re not hit in a combo!
OHK moves are fine as long they are "single target" or a small area. I know they are not hit kill but take Teostra/Lunastra Novas, Teostra's nova has way lesser range than Lunastra, it gives you enough time to run and if you get hit by it, it is pretty much your own fault, then we have Lunastra giant nova range that knocks you down and can wipe your hunt. OHK mechanics are never good on a multiplayer game that you have deaths limit to lose, maybe if this fight and ONLY on this fight you had a death limit of 6 when playing Online it would be a bit fairer, that would allow your team to fail the "elemental seal" once and not lose the hunt.
The very soul of MH is fighting monsters that feel like beasts. They got all kinds of ways to fight and its up to you to use the time and tools alotted to overcome them. Forcing players to fight and be more aggressive is cool but putting a dps check in there ruins the immersion of the game. It should have been about destroying parts of his body to reduce the damage he deals and making those parts more vulnerable to elemental damage, heck even making his different forms more weak to some elements. It would have made a more immersive battle, taking out his powers to slowly bring him down to your level like a true hunter.
@TheBuragi alatreon is a clown, so much for a black dragon and it doesn't even have a unique super move, just a cheap OHK version of Lunastra's nova lol.
@@pracitus Being able to use all to use all five elements all at ounce is pretty black dragon too me. The closest thing we got to multiple elements was Nami using water and thunder.
I'd say the most difficult (or annoying) part of reaching the elemental threshold is that Alatreon loves to waste your time by flying. Like, I get it that's how he was in the previous games and they had to keep it but you can't have him constantly fly around like that when he has an elemental check that can 1 shot us. If the flying was toned down by even 40% then it would make a massive difference because he actually stays in Dragon mode just long enough for you or your team to meet the check even if Alatreon takes absolutely no element damage during Fire/Ice mode.
my thoughts: as someone who started their adventure as a young child in monster hunter Tri I have a strong affinity for this specific black dragon (Ala is my fav) . I remember the very first time they released the brilliant darkness event quest online and it was such a good time and even after the fact you couldn't finish his gear until the even harder event was released called where the gods fear to tread to get his horn was just so fun to do but I felt that it might have been too easy at times. nowadays after being much older and more skilled it really feels amazing to finally have a proper challenge from a black dragon. I hope that in August when we receive our returning monster that it's another black dragon with just as much or even more difficulty than the Alatreon. *please be Fatalis Capcom pleaseeeee*
Dear god, if they release something even harder. I’ll probably just give up on this game. I already feel completely hopeless fighting this monster. I fight with all my heart and think i do phenomenal, just to get one shot anyways, i feel legitimately hopeless with this monster. I wear full safi, ice attack lvl 6, and have tried hammer, GS, Dual Blades, Bow, and have had better luck with Glaive. So I understand that it should be hard, but not to the point where like 95% of the player base cant do anything.
@@er4265 Its okay if not everyone is able to beat it man. The rest of the game is still there to play, it's not as if all the other stuff is locked behind beating him And also im sure over 20% have beaten it already. Its only been out 3 days and your saying its impossible. Come on man, have more faith in yourself and in others
@@er4265 Hm I would suggest you go with the highest elemental dmg weapon your comfortable with and bring health boost 3 (let's you survive every single attack by alatreon) Eat for moxie bring a healing palico for the reviveand slot in fortify. You want all your armor upgraded to level 20 with augmenting. Then it's just a case of learning the fight enough. You should definitely be able to hit the threshold. A few practical tips for horn breaks in dragon mode: When he summons thunder around him he goes on his backlegs and comes down after letting you hit the head for quite a bit. When he shoots a fire ball that explodes in rings (not the hop back that explodes in lines) you can actually go inside the rings and he will hold his head there for quite a while for you to hit and lastly when you knock him down the window is gigantic because not only will he be toppled for a while he will also stay still for quite a while after when he flashes his elemental state. Obviously those are not the only windows but they are some of the biggest. Happy hunting!
@@er4265 take it slowly, when you learned, you will see it's not hard. You must approach it methodically, Frustration only undermining your skills. Some advice: As long as you don't get pin down, you won't get one shot. All his move is very telegraphic, weapon like longsword will have easier time. For skill: 3 elemental aliment resistant can make your fight much easier. People use safi to fight it is part because it have higher ice resistant, So you can ignore his longest move ice breeze and hit his head till you have full health. But you can fight him with any armor.
Honestly, if they bring in Fatalis, that’s it, no more monsters because nothing can top that world ender. I’d rather they release a few more flag ships like Gore Magala and Valstrax, possibly even Seregios. After the god of the elements, I want to hunt some “normal” monsters before facing the literal ender of the world incarnate.
I'm not offended, I'm just pissed off. I just feel like this stuff is artificial difficulty just for the lols, specially now that I'm in no position of getting ps+ I just feel completely left out of the experience and that pisses me. I know the fight is doable solo, it's just a pain in the ass for a Switch Axe playstyle like mine. I'm sure lots of people will love it tho, and I'm glad they are having fun
I've managed to beat him playing SA solo 6 times, and only 2 times online. Trust me, this fight is easier solo. Most people don't know what they are doing in this fight and don't understand how it works, so it's really rare to even get past his first nova most of the time. That's to say nothing of the people who can't even dodge his normal attacks and cause the quest to fail. I've only failed the quest solo a handful of times, yet playing online, I lost track of how many quest fails happened. You ain't missing much this time.
Another advantage to doing it solo is that you can take advantage of "fortify" and replenishing your items. Combined with health cat, moxie, insurance and/or feline safeguard; you basically have 7-8 lives if you eat for moxie again after death.
I guy from reddit said he had a hard time with axe only swaxe ua-cam.com/video/aGhCm6xxwOg/v-deo.html I tried it and I got the first elemental topple in 3-4 mins Finished the hunt in 16:22 solo Its totally doable, just need to understand his moveset and what to punish. I suggest watching some swaxe runs online and try to understand their thought process and utilize their punishes to certain attacks. It takes practice but you'll get it
The thing that bugged me the most is that due to his attack patterns it is damn near impossible to even get a flare off in the first place, or without carting once.
It took me days to finally beat this monster, a ton of preparation before and after he was released, and constant trial and error to figure out his move set, and when to take advantage of it. At no point did I feel like it wasn’t fair. As has been mentioned multiple times, the hit boxes on his attacks are for the most part, some of the fairest in the series. Many attacks leave him wide open for multiple seconds. I had no prior experience with elemental weapons before alatreon, being a greatsword main and all. People complain that base world was too easy, and when they begin adding more challenging monsters people complain about it being too hard. After upgrading a safi longsword for 2 element up V, and getting level 6 ice attack from decorations, I was able to beat him relatively easily completely solo. I am not a speed hunter, nor am I exceptional at the game. It took me over 25 minutes to kill him, in fact. People just need to put in a modicum of effort, which they are not willing to do because hurr hurr hammer go bonk. I thought he was incredible, because he felt like a raid boss to me. The elemental damage threshold is so unbelievably easy to reach with even a descent elemental build, as is the horn break. Both of these “win conditions” are reachable within a few minutes of them becoming available with enough preparation. The preparation is the hardest part. Getting the build, learning his moves, forming a strategy. After that, the fight is basically like clockwork.
THANK YOU it felt like everyone was against me, but all of those negatives are too much. its counter intuitive to MH's very core of variety and hunting with others. if they wanted to encourage the use of element, they could have done a much better job that didnt have all these down sides. also, I dont like how I have to power throughbit with healing with no way of avoiding it. its not like I cant do it, but MH has always encouraged damage evasion, not damage tanking, and it provided the tools to complete a hunt without ever getting hit a single time, but Alatreon just says no and forces you to power through. not very MH. it also isnt a very well explained mechanic, I fought it a few times with no prior knowledge and I only learned about the dps check after asking online.
Felis Impurrator and that's fair enough. I certainly see the appeal, I just wish there was even a single way to avoid it, kind of like Behemoth where you can get behind a comet or do the jump
For me the biggest problem was: You can only break the horn twice! So with my ice bow the DPS-Check was fairly easy. But the hunt took too long. After both horns are broken IT WILL switch to ice element and one hits you. So I dealed with it with dragon element. Making the horns optional in the first place.
I honestly won't mind if breaking both horns would disable it's Fire Active and Ice Active, which disables the Escaton Judgement, because save for that one-shot (which almost nobody likes), locking Alatreon to Dragon Active doesn't disable anything from it, it still has access to all it's fire and ice attacks, and thus, Dragon Active is the least repetitive mode.
If I may ask, what does the Japanese community think of the fight? I heard that the japanese playerbase loves the fight on a pretty general level, unlike a good part of the western community.
@@Ringoo4 I was seriously shocked by the level of rage, some people were talking like legit schizos holy shit. How the fuck did this playerbase even managed to do Behemoth?
@@frazer_1997 With good ol sticky and carried by friends. Leshen was for me fun to, he got many complains to and even he got a OHK move near the end of his hunt
You know guys, Capcom actually adjusted the elemental damage modifiers for every single weapon type to make sure they were relatively on even ground. For example, elemental kings like Dual Blades and LBG have modifiers that lower their output while slow raw kings like Greatsword and Gunlance have modifiers that increase their elemental output.
What do you mean by this? Are you saying for Alatreon battle ele dmg modifiers are specifically tweaked to suit player's weapon? I'm sorry but this sounds too good to be true. You have a proof for this?
@@AirahsELL No it does not. The reason why sos is bad is because the players don't do their part Its actually harder to hit the cap solo (numerically), if anything it gets easier in multiplayer
Great vid-thanks! My thoughts on this are usually experienced higher-rank players have better armor, weapons, and decos and SHOULD produce more damage required to survive the judgement, and ultimately the quest. What I frown on is the elitism this has, especially in MP.
Having had time to get over the salt and really look at things with calmer eyes, I think the elemental DPS check is a symptom of a larger malaise - that being, the way elemental damage is balanced between weapons. I still don't care for DPS checks in MH, but the tangible "unfairness" here is that this one is *elemental*. It means that weapons like GS/LS/GL/Lance/Hammer have a much harder time reaching the cap than, say, Bow/DB/CB/LBG, which can reach it easily. This results in players pigeonholing themselves far more narrowly than I think the devs probably intended. Also, the elemental HZVs. They're pretty bad. In a fight where element is mandatory. Go figure... Hopefully Capcom's takeaway from this will be that elemental damage needs to be better balanced, indicated, and explained than it currently is.
No, every weapon you mentioned is not hard to meet the check. I play all close weapon type, as long as you don't try to use sticky or shelling only to beat him. Chose any weapon with a good elemental number on it is enough. They just find out there is a elemental multiplyer, give weapon like GS better element in this fight. Befoy I know this I actually used most weapon to fight it. With DB I can carry a 4 man's team with 3 other using raw. With GS I can solo, but need 1 more elemental teammates if it's 4 man's team.
People are actually complaining that the game is helping too much and also the fact that it endlessly repeats how to fight the monster is annoying. The fight is simply do elemental damage fast, heal when damaged, that's all.
@@coolorochi First you tell me "every weapon you mentioned is not hard to reach the check", then you provide an example of how much more effective DB is than GS. That's proving my point. Yes, any weapon *can* reach it. But like I said, some weapons have a significantly easier time doing so than others.
@@valkyrion_ex1173 The game has taken this into consideration. Ala's threshold is different for weapons. So for GS, you only need to deal about 680 elemental damage and for CB, where it can dish out hundreds of elemental damage per hit, needs 6800 elemental damage. Even though this mechanic isn't perfect, it mostly just comes down to the weapon's matchup. GS and GL will always be having a hard time reaching the threshold due to their clunkiness.
Apparently the elemental thresholds have been mined and posted in reddit: www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/comments/hpjzsi/for_people_saying_slower_weapons_got_screwed_over/?MonsterHunterMeta& Different weapons have different modifiers, slower weapons like GS and Hammer actually have rather rather high modifiers thus low threshold requirements, if you build for it it's actually not difficult to get through the thresholds at all.
Honestly i do enjoy the fight, granted there was baby rage in the begining as i learned mechanics but with more experience i enjoyed it. I have not beat this monster in a group yet and considering going hunting horn to help people with ele damage. I guess my only conplaint, is i wish a hunter had more options to protect thrmselves against boom, in previous titles you could sacrifice damage for survivability (constitution and superman dive being good example) so sa y having an elemental res threshold where you could barely survive or having to use a mantle to help protect etc. It would allow the meta/up dps builds stay as thst, but allow other hunters to approach differently, hell in multiplayer if there was a setup to help survive the blast, even if it meant reducing damage (trading a mantle or geming in different skills) i think it would be more enjoyable
Amazing fight and fair mechanic. I struggled for two nights playing the quest over and over and switching between 4 different weapons. I failed. I learned. On the 3rd night I soloed it, then I beat the event quest with a pick up group (what you can randoms) and we kicked his ass, and then I did it in a duo with a friend. This fight is what Monster Hunter is about. Learning and adapting to overcome. I can't wait to see more of this.
I think it's stupid and gimicky. I'd prefer it to be more like Bloodbath where you don't need to have earplugs to complete the quests but still have them be useful.
@@victorsandeen2694 Basically you can dodge everything it throws at you, but you have to be very good to do it without any defensive skills, arts, or style specific moves.
By big problem is that OHKO moves were introduced because of hunters being ableing to effectively heal infinitely. That isn't something you can do in the alatreon fight since the only way to get back to camp is to cart meaning escaton judgment could do 95% of your health and be just as effective without the demoralisation caused by its current status.
For me, he's only hard at first, because of lacks of information. Once i know i need to bring good ice/fire element weapons, break the horns, supress his escaton judgement, his fight is enjoyable. Now i almost never cart fighting him. I'm still kinda neutral towards the DPS check mechanics.
In my opinion, the DPS check makes the fight more tense, which can put a lot of pressure on you when fighting him, but I find it fun, in addition to the rest of the fight. But to each their own.
If you're having trouble use insect glaive with the opposite element of alatrion and only use the kinsect to attack. Hitting the horns in dragon for is a lot easier with the bug and has a pretty decent amount of elemental damage to reach the cap.
I absolutely ADORE this version of Alatreon. In my opinion, seeing as this is an endgame black dragon, the difficulty fits. In all the groups I’ve run since beating the special event quest, the Ele damage threshold has become one of the easiest parts to deal with, leaving an arena fight with an incredible monster with great hit zone values, sound design, attack queues, and especially hit boxes holy crap. Also, for those complaining about randoms from SOS flares ruining your hunts, please consider joining an Alatreon specific lobby. You’ll find some great hunters there
This exactly. The elemental damage check is a non-issue. People die like flies cus they overcommit to their combos and get stomped by its normal attacks.
Alatreon in Iceborne is absolute my favorite fight in the franchise. His attacks are fair, he keeps you on your toes and you have to keep up that offensive front, and he's just a great challenge that feels great to beat! However, that DPS nova check is absolutely what shatters my love for the fight. You have to be hitting it constantly and if you're not, then that's just hit. Doesn't help that if you're on a team of four, then his health is inflated even more so now you'll be seeing more novas It ruins an otherwise perfect hunt and it really just disappoints the hell out of me.
It has hidden multipliers for element threshold, specific to Alatreon. Hammer does fine. Even lance can hit the threshold fairly comfortably despite its godsawful internal element multiplier.
@@FelisImpurrator but if you compare the multiplier of an elemental weapon (which is about 0.6 to 0.8) and that of an greatsword (1.1), greatsword still does too little elemental damage compared to the elemental weapons like LBG or DB. Even a greatsword like the Kjarr Decay with max elemental damage, a perefct elemental set and the 1.1 multiplier, the damage done would still be 95-98% raw and the rest elemental damage.
I think it's completly fine that there are endgame quest that are just to hard for some people. It's an endgame challenge and only proficient hunters should be able to beat it. MHWIB really needed a difficult endgame challenge like MHGU's super devients and alatreon at least goes in that direction.
I agree with this. I love that I still get a good challenge out of this game after over a thousand hours of play. But such super end game content always comes at the price of alienating newer players.
@@AirahsELL Extreme Bloodbath can and will one-shot you after a roar pretty often if you don't dodge it. Imho that's a lot worse than Escaton Judgement
You summarized my thoughts exactly. After clearing the assignment, I still have mixed feelings, but learning more on the positive site. Another nitpick I want to add is that Ala's mechanics prevent you from active slowing the fight to break monster parts for extra loot. In got very unlucky and didn't get any tails or wings so I can't craft anything of the armor, nor upgrade the two weapons I crafted already
I agree with everything You said, this is prob the first video I've seen that touches on everything, Great job here Sir! I feel the same way. After 23 Alatreon kills I'm still missing some of those cool weapons. Gotta keep farming him.
You need to deal enough elemental damage to weaken him. In the special assingment quest Alatreon always starts as fire active so using water or Ice element is recommended, dragon works well too. When you manage to deal enough damage the Handler will let you know. Eventually Alatreon shifts to the dragon active that's when you need to break its horns so it will be forced back to the fire active. If you manage to do that the Escaton Judgement will barely tickle. Use Astera Jerky or max potions to heal through it. Good luck and Git gud.
I think Monster Hunter needed a hunt like Alatreon to make the playerbase go out of comfort zone and learn new ways or playing for the following reasons: - This fight makes people know that they can't get carried, because on multiplayer they need to do a good deal of elemental and horn damage as well, so unless the rest of the group is just too good, you need to carry your own burden. - This fight teaches hunters how to actually dodge attacks, focus on specific parts of the monsters (safi makes you focus on tenderized parts, but those can vary during the hunt), focus on a specific set of weapons and gear (elemental). - Teaches how elemental damage can vary from monster to monster, can vary on the same monster in different states, and can vary on different parts of the same monster. This is the reason I think this fight is necessary for the community to go a step further as hunters and as community (also like Gaijin said, the monster is fair, well telegraphed and YES, YOU DON'T NEED GOOD DECOS OR META SETS TO BEAT IT). BUT the implementation wasn't perfect IMO and that's because: - The game doesn't tell you how elemental works. No Monster Hunter ever had such thing, and while this game at least gives you the info of the damage you deal to a monster, in order to know that your 600 ice GS is far worse then a 600 ice SNS, you need to go for external resources. Meta builds and things like that don't need to be said ingame, but such a basic mechanic should. - This fight difficulty doesn't follow the other fights ingame. The closest dps check to that we had before was KT, but she didn't need specific sets to be built around, and didn't have limitations about the weapons that could be used. Maybe if Barioth was released before and he had an elemental dps check as well (but a little lower then Ala) that could be a good roadmap, and would prepare the hunters for Alatreon better. They could implement the mechanics of breaking barioth wings/tusks would not let him to do a specific attack, teaching hunters that breaks could be almost mandatory to make a hunt easier (in this game, cutting Rathian tail dones't negate the poison from her for example, so breaks doesn't mean a change for the hunt itself for the average hunter). - OHKO mechanics are just mean. Such mechanic makes multiplayer not viable since all carts are burned at once if you have one hunter that doesn't contribute much for the dps check. I like mechanics like MH4U where you had a dps check witha a buff to try to make the monster go out of a frenzied state and if you fail the hunt just becomes very difficult and you need to deal with that until your buff gets off cooldown, but it DOESN'T cart you immediatly. This OHKO mechanic makes you want to solo the monster, and kills the commnity aspect of the hunt (BUT I would like to have a monster that CAN'T' be done on multiplayer. Such monster would be a good thing to teach specific mechanics to hunters as well). -
@@naromaster9796 uuuhm... Namielle, Teostra, Shara Ishvalda, Lunastra, Safi'Jiva, Kulve Taroth, Alatreon, raging Brachydios and fucking blazing Bazelgeuse, a random flying wyvern of all.
@@LeoAndela but no one describes those as novas, the only thing people talk about when speaking of novas are teostra and lunastra nova, and Alatreon's is closest to lunastra's
This fight is frustrating, after 2 days of trying to brute force my way through, because I play with poison or blast sets, I gave in. Crafted new weapons, armor and learned dual blades. (Safijiva armor works really well on this fight). After a few more attempts I finally beat him. The reward of my hard work was clear and the feeling of that was AMAZING. This is why play this game, for the thrill of the hunt. Beating something that took time and effort on each attempt. Love this monster, and the weapons/armor look fantastic.
Amen to that, heck my main weapon is a safi blast hammer with 3/5 Safi gear. I'm not that fond of us ele weapons but I just went in and upgraded on the Kjarr Ice Long Swords and wham! Died and abbandoned the quest multiple times till I finally understood how to play it out. Landing that final killing blow felt so damn good I even screamed of how excited I was!
I was pretty pissed at first. Took me 60-70 tries to kill it. But now...I have every single one of his moves down. I can attack him relentlessly and own him. If you really want to be great at the game and put Alatreon down you have to put in the work! Keep learning, keep watching, pay attention, and figure out a good build! This is the hardest monster they’ve ever put out but after 3 days and 1 entire day of attempting to best him he’s no longer a challenge. You cannot just try him 1-5 times a day and expect a change. Even if you’re team/randoms are bad it’s not a lost cause to continually try. You’re always going to pick up on something and get better. KEEP TRYING. It took me almost 100 TRIES. If you want it bad enough you will keep going. If you simply want an easier monster you will complain. I held my breath and I’m so glad it’s not nerfed yet. EDIT: Once you complete it and go to the event quest it’s literally 90% easier because everyone knows what they’re doing and you start at camp. And for the love of god randos...PLEASE use ice attack 6 or dragon attack 6! You are completely wasting your time and your teammates time if you are not. Idc what your build is, this is about relentless elemental damage and staying alive. Nothing else.
After an hour or two of practice, I’m able to pretty much solo it with a 100% clear rate, even being able to break both horns. Practicing this fight is very very important, and as long as you have some endgame elemental weapons, you’ll be able to clear the quest
What element and what’s the amount? I’ve had the best luck with safi stuff built for max element and then silver sol for element crit. I’ve only been able to hit the stagger twice. I’m trying to figure out what I need for numbers
Saijou Candari that’s the thing though, the horns are still super easy for me to break. I’ll break the, but not hit the cap. I’ve tried dual blades, sword and shield, and element phial switch axe and just spammed element discharge. I even put in maximum might on the sns so I don’t have to waste time weakening the legs and I can just go to town on them. What’s prob getting me is that this is an armor set that isn’t maxed out since I just made it, and my defense is to low so I prob can’t play as offensively as I need to.
@Saijou Candari As a HH player I have zero problems breaking the horns, but I can't ever reach the damage threshold despite using a fully upgraded ice safi HH (4 element upgrades, one song upgrade)
@@samhagar983 Kjarr Stream or King of any weapon + Safi x 5 is easy way to steam-roll Ala. You almost guarantee first elemental flinch, even second or third.
You saying that the judgement is 1% of the entire fight is very unaccurate. The very reason you fight this boss the way you do is because of the judgement. I think the main issue with alatreon is that unavoidable "if you didn't do enough you lose" attack. Sure black dragon but gameplaywise it feels like you have yo hit him a lot and cross fingers you get the weak judgement. Also the horns thingy bother me a lot. It used to be a reward for those who managed to hit it's head, not it has become almost mandatory. This monster looks fair, but it's not. The hunt is very fun and challenging but having a dps wall that if you fail you have to start over while the monster has tools to make you fail that dps check isn't very fair. For example it's ability to combo you to death with fast attacks adds more frustation to the fight, even if they are telegraphed, the fact they come out quickly makes it so if you get hit once you can easily get hit again, and have 2 blights on you at least.
if they really wanted to have a dps check, it shouldn’t be a OHKO. i think it wouldve been much more fair if it was an attack that inflicted you with multiple elemental blights that you can’t use nulberries/blight resistance on. that would actually make alatreon feel more like he’s controlling all the elements and not just another standard elder dragon.
BNZ! I might sounds like an elitist but mhw is easy enough already, dps check is good since alatreon is a fucking black dragon a monster far beyond the level of elder dragons and most importantly it’s actually force player to think and prepare for the hunt instead of going big sword swish swosh all the time.
Personally new Alatreon fight reminds me of my experiences soloing during old gen end game fights. Having to specialise your setup for a specific target, not being able to change it through out the hunt. Its just you vs the beast. After countless failed attempts you finally learn to properly dodge the barrage of attacks while staying on the offensive and landing your own. Eventually it becomes a song and dance between two forces and the struggle to keep dps up before timer runs out. One wrong move and it could mean an instant wipe. This intensive pressure to perform perfectly isn't everyone's cup of tea but I would be lying if I didn't say the reward of coming out triumphant in the end is like nothing else.
What you wrote is what perfectly fits the fight for me with the insane amount of pressure and perfect performance you need in order to hit the dps check, It created an amazingly fun experience for me at least because It felt like it actually required me to focus and it made Aletreon one of the most fun hunts I’ve ever had
@@Vintmo it reminds me of 3u's g1 urgent. The double brachy. I had to do it solo and I mained gunlance so it was misery. Bach in 3u slime blight took away your ability to guard so I had to sheathe and deodorant myself or roll before I get nuked. He also was way more spammy and his punches at times where far faster and agressive than later games imop. And that darn tail was more of a pain in the but too. Block the punch, get bopped by the tail and be on your but with a decent amount of life gone.
Played on solo. I haven't killed him yet since I was playing safe. However, I was still able to get to the elem threshold and broke a horn before dying due to not being able to dodge his obvious attacks. Best iteration of Aletreon since I first went up against him on MH3
Fuck me, I have PTSD from MH3U since it was kicking my ass in high rank while I could kill G-rank Savage Jhos with my eyes closed! Felt great to kill him good solo, took me several hours to finally get it but landing that last blow felt amazing. Just keep on going, even if ya going slow or an escaton a time just learn and perfect the hunt. I went with an 600 Ice LS and kicked his ass, breaking the two horns but ended up dying once on the third escaton since you can't prevent him to go to ice mode after both horns are broken. Felyine insurance kicked in + fortity and I just slaugthered him once he reverted back to fire form
They also aren't on their backfoot and possibly dieing trying to get the SOS flare off because they spawned 3 feet in front of a monster that might open up with a fireball immediately out of the loading screen. They start in the camp, and can prepare and wait for people.
One thing I approve of 100%: the bits of Monster Hunter Tri music!
Omg yess, the Deserted Island theme my favourite
I've been too busy being carted that I didn't even notice. Well now I have to pay attention.
It's so nostalgic!!
MH Tri had the best music. Just love it
"This, like Behemoth, feels extreme to me"
I see what you did there.
i noticed that in post and decided to keep it, i figured someone woudl notice. Happy accidents (bob ross ❤️)
@@gaijinhunter AYyyyy, Bob Ross🌚🌚🌚
This does feel like a worse Ecliptic to me. At least that one was more FAIR than this poorly balanced arbitrary nonsense. Let that sink in.
Yeah, one hit KO is dumb shit Square/Enix gameplay mechanics. That's the reason I quit FFXIV for Monster Hunter World. I got tired of SE's shitty raid mechanics.
I think it would be cool if instead of judgement, Alatreon permanently goes into an enraged state where It's more difficult to hunt (and maybe has some harder to dodge new moves) until you deal enough elemental damage to knock it out of it. This way if you're a skilled player, you could ignore the elemental threshold, but it would still be really nice to have players on your team with elemental weapons.
AT alatreon
This (or maybe even a strong attack that's really hard to dodge and covers the whole arena, think stygian zinogre's ultimate move but bigger and more flashy)
That's Ebony Odagaron
That’s literally just how Zinogre works.
And Zinogre works really well
@@arialblack3279 i think it would be easier if we just leave the judgement them. AOE atacks in this game are a pain and especially if elemental damage is needed to make them stop.
I know this is old but i dont think we want an even harder lunastra. (Or any other AOE spammer you can think of)
"For those with no friends that they know by name online"
As someone who fits this description, it really is sad when you know the game is a lot more fun playing with friends
I am the same :(
join some monster hunter discords like the jinjinx mathalos, canta's server or anything. you get discussions and friends that know what they are doing to play with.
Joining a lobby is easy
What's your platform? I'll play with you.
You on xbox? I am happy to play with you mate
I'm fine with Alatreon, i just don't understand why this quest MR 24. That's just ridiculous.
Behemoth was hr14...
Yeah, they want everyone to access it because it's new content, but it's clearly made for MR100+ players.
Ruiner Nergigante is unlocked after Alatreon at MR 100.
Let that sink in...
This monster in every iteration of MH was hard AF and believe me, you need hunters with experience to fight against it.
I completely agree. I really like the fight design. if the elemental dps wall is not met its cuz of poor preparation and player skill/experience. with 4 people the check is met 2 minutes into the fight, huuuge leeway.
"people buy monster hunter to play with people online"
...well i feel personally attacked
Same I always played mh solo, started with 3 and I've always found my hunt funnier/better in solo
The game is just more challenging in solo and that's what I love with this franchise
I bought MH to fight bigass monsters, playing with people was third or fourth on my list of reasons.
I play solo mostly because my laptop can run MHW but not properly; I cannot in good conscience play with others because either my system won't be able to keep up with theirs, or their systems will be left waiting (lagging) on mine.
(I just hit HR14 last night -- that Nergigante hunt did _not_ disappoint!)
well some of us have the most fun in our lives when playing with others since freedom united. Like honestly this game is magic with friends
I have horrible internet. This game requires very optimal internet in order to join SOS.
Breaking the horns is completely optional if you’re using a dragon weapon. You can just stick to hitting front and back legs and you’ll reach the damage check. For those who don’t know Alatreon takes the most elemental damage from its front legs.
This is true, I used a 2000 Dragon element Switch Axe and clapped him hard, but it’s also worth noting that he only becomes weak to dragon in his dragon form, and other forms take much less dragon damage.
@@mouadaljabri8371 uh what? 2000?
Ohhhhhh okay. Although, I've been running LBG against him, should I still focus on those since I got the Dominator?
@@sonfoku73 yep. Black Harvest with Ala waist, legs, and safi rest, along with some resistance and HH buffs can get all the way to 2700.
Agreed. And sometimes you’ll end breaking them by accident lol
SOS for Alatreon is hopeless when you notice that the MR requirement for it is just 24. it’s funny that you can hunt an endgame monster, while you need MR 100 for Ruiner Nergigante.
My guess is because it’s only a 2 week temporary quest. But I agree...it should be at least 150 MR requirement. I don’t trust anyone under 250 MR.
@@GuiltyHAL343 As someone who is MR 87 soloed it and beat it with multiple groups of randoms I get what you are saying but at the same time not everyone under MR 250 is not good. It is truly luck when online it seems.
HAL after completing the Special Assignment, you can only do the event quest and it lasts for 365 days since release. so yeah, they have no excuse for that.
@@GuiltyHAL343 as a MR 247 HH main, you're right.
I'm hunter rank 455 and I cant even get the handler to give me the response other than I have dragon blight and then dying to judgement :(
Greatest part about Alatreon not having to tenderize every 90 seconds to deal any sort of dmg. His hitzones are so juicy I don't even bother tenderizing which imo was one of the most annoying mechanics they added in iceborne.
Unless your bow...
Several of his attacks also completely disrespects even an invincible claw like my lance counter claw. For example, if I counter claw onto its face when it has one more face slam, it throws me off and makes me lie on the ground.
Its body slam attack also does not trigger the claw unless you are hit by its legs despite it clearly being a physical attack.
Between this and Rajang I feel like the development team themselves don't fully understand the claw and just wanted to add something arbitrarily flashy but is ultimately annoying.
I only tenderize at the beginning and then during every flinch or after a very punishable move it makes the hunt a lot more realistic. Instead of just randomly trying to clutch the monster every 90 seconds.
@@VaioletteWestover completely agree. I've wanted to make counter claw work but have pretty much abandoned it now. It's just better to Lance charge + finisher, then back into the bread and butter combo.
Bow users will find this comment
One more thing about the fight, the sound design is absolutely excellent in every way. The way alatreon and his elements sound is by far my favorite in the game and that's saying something.
It's so sad that just one mechanic gets in the way of what would be one of the best fights in the entire series period.
I completely agree the sound design is amazing and it’s an amazing fight. Personally I like the ‘use elements or you ded’ mechanic because it mixes things up a bit and requires you to put more thought into the fight rather than just the usual ‘attack it until it turns into a cool set of armour’.
@@maxwhite4732 My issue is that it's notably harder to reach that threshold with slower weapons, or simply because if he moves too much to actually hit he can just time you out and nuke you for something you couldn't even really stop. Had a close hunt once where we got two ults survived and broke a horn, thing refused to stay still or on the ground long enough that we literally just couldn't hit it enough.
Use your clutch, at least you can still score 200 damages with heavy weapons.
Sound design is underrated. Have you noticed that he roars differently when casting lighting or oil attacks?
One little detail I noticed, when Alatreon does a weakened escaton judgement, the sound simply muffles. When it does one at full power though, you can faintly hear this ominous bell, as if to say “this is the end for you.”
Edit: It’s kind of like what you hear over the forbidden monster part of the anniversary video
Handler: Use element weapons or else
Randoms: That sign can't stop me because I can't read!
Randoms: Is blast an element? No Patrick, blast is not an element.
@@sunwukong6427 blast is an element. Just ask bloodwing
@@epicaccount9036 you are a man of culture
@@epicaccount9036 damn i had flashbacks on that
yeah, every random i got HAD an elemental weapon, still didn't help
I find myself conflicted when they make a mandatory mechanic like this when it more or less outright denies certain playstyles. I can accept being told to change up my armor set and maybe getting a variant of a weapon that does the proper element and all of that. It was incredibly frustrating when I learned that my Gunlance basically doesn't do elemental damage for the majority of its effective mechanics. Then I remembered Heavy Bowgun Exists and I felt even worse for them, because their ability to do element is even LESS, meaning those players basically are being slapped in the face. If it was just about mitigating blast/raw spam, or very specific builds that break monsters I'd get it, but when entire weapon groups are rendered a liability it makes me frown.
As someone else put it, Monster Hunter has always been a "Bring what you want, just be good enough to do it" and then to that I will add: we have this fight with multiple layers of "Bring what we want, if you aren't good enough at that we're chastising you." Its against the spirit of monster hunter even beyond the concept of community and playing with others online.
I've seen people even propose keeping the elemental DPS check but making it an environmental limiter instead of an instant cart, something that makes the fight more and more untenable as the arena becomes more restricting or dangerous. It still encourages the frantic aggression without slapping people who simply cant build the developer meta because of limitations on weapon mechanics.
Wait a minute, I heard this kind of argument along the line of MH is always about this and that, something along the line of what you said: "Bring what you want, just be good enough to do it".
SO I want to ask is it really what the game (series) is about OR is it what YOU THINK it is about?
Because I would say it is the later one.
Because I think adaptability is one of the core/main ideas of MH. You get access to all types of weapons at any given point, they don't force you to pick only one role/playstyle from the get-go. Monsters have different elements, different movesets, etc. And crafting system is a core mechanic of the game.
So with all of that, it always been if you find a hard monster (a roadblock), you need to craft new gears/weapons that best countered that monster. You need to adapt to that new challenge.
heronumber009 nice mental gymnastics but let me correct you real quick. The game is not about changing your weapon class just to be able to succeed in a fight. You should be able to reasonably defeat the any monster with any weapon class. There are good and bad matchups depending on the monster move set, but it’s all viable or at least it used to be.
Let me tell you what the game has never been about. It has never been about dps checks. It has never been about one shot mechanics. Monster can 1 shot you, but you can dodge, block, super man dive, etc. to prevent getting killed. The game has never been about fighting the clock instead of the monster. Every time I see a 30 minute hunt I get immediately triggered. Not because I’ll fail, most likely I’ll finish with plenty of time to spare. but if I wanna learn a new weapon or I’m not comfortable with my current weapon. The reduced time makes it a chore, so I grab what I’m used to and kill it like usual.
Right, as a Gunlance user I feel your pain. I've seen that there's a video of somebody soloing Alat with GL, but like you said GL really isn't about doing elemental damage, never has been. Sucks that the elemental DPS check makes one of my favorite weapons in the game a less-viable option.
@@Caine830 Well, then tell me which weapon can't solo or multiplayer Alatreon?
Because I think even with Gunlance, there are videos of people solo Alatreon with it. There is video of 4 people speedrun Alatreon in 2 minutes something with heavy bowguns.
So if you want to go with the "Bring what you want, just be good enough to do it" motto, you still can, just get yourself to that lv of player hence the "just be good enough to do it" part.
And the thing about "what the game has never been about", well it's redundant because new things get introduced in the series over time.
There was a point in time where Rajang and its mechanics was "what the game has never been about", because it was introduced in Monster Hunter 2, so before that it was also "what the game has never been about". Same as many, many other things in the game now.
"It has never been about dps checks", well there was Extreme Behemoth.
At the end of the day, I know it's a new challenging thing that the game devs just throw at the players, and many are annoyed with it. But hey it is what it is. You either adapt to it or just leave it.
Not every player in MHW can beat every monsters (at least without getting carry through it). ANd not every player in MHW enjoy every parts of it and every monsters in it.
So if you don't like something, just ignore it.
@@heronumber009 You first argument is one big asspull. Yeah, just dedicate your life to this game to beat a certain monster with a certain weapon, like those dudes do that play this game 24/7; they manage, so why can't you? Bruh...
Behemoth dps check wasn't as bullshit as alatreon, because guess what? You could use any weapon for it, even non-elemental Gunlance, that deals mostly non-elemental damage! Do you read what you are writing?
The alatreon fight almost prohibits GL and HBG, since when did any other monster do that? Certain elemental resistances are fine: Don't bring a fire weapon against a fire dragon, duh. But: Don't bring a Gunlance against...??? It shouldn't work like that.
No other monster makes it almost impossible to fight against depending on your weapon type. Sometimes faster weapons are better, or heavy-hitters like GS, but none of them get punished by a BS one-shot gimmick.
You mention adaptability, but never do you actively need to switch your weapon just to beat a monster. NEVER. And saying GL and HBG Alatreon is prohibitively difficult to pull off, impossible some might say, is fair.
By far THE FAIREST hitbox design ever created by Capcom
YES! totally agree
@@gaijinhunter Absolutely, I can stand 20cm away from a fire or bolt attack and still not get hit.
I love how his thunderstrikes are not kirin bull shit
totally agreed, only other thing I'd put my 2 cents on would be the threeway fireball into fire breath combo, can't really see the fire while explosions with the same colour/particle effects are happening right in front of you
I really hate how people are complaining like hurr durr everything is AOE and claiming Capcom is out of ideas to make the fights difficult when the battle is actually incredibly well made, fair and perfectly matches the theme of a Black Dragon who controls all the elements.
Y'know; I just realized how much stuff in MHW is on a timer. DPS checks, Events, and even monsters. It feels so stressful for an older hunter lol
It just feels less fun. Like I look at Shara, Namielle, Velk, Hazaak, and Xeno Jiva and I can't really complain about anything among them. They're all really fun hunts with new interesting things you can learn by fighting them. What made Shara difficult? The fact it had new extremely dangerous mechanics that you had to learn how to avoid.
When I fight one of these buster stack check timers I just feel like I'm fighting against the gimmick rather than beating any monster. Why is hitting literally anything but the horns in the final phases of the High-Rank Kulve Taroth essentially just damage that goes into the void? There's essentially 3-4 weapons who will ever hit them. Why is a weapon like Lance so heavily shafted by not having literally an optimal Kjarr or Crit Element build vs Alatreon? There is so little in terms of situations you'd run elemental vs monsters as Lance, and when I do, I have an actual motivation outside of "this monster is quite literally unable to be fought without reaching the stats because it'll instant kill me with no other interaction but how much elemental I did".
every monster hunter has had dps checks for elder dragons. or at least in 2nd gen like freedom 2 and unite where if you did enough damage to them, they would flee and then you could finish them off the next time you hunt them in the same quest.
@@Jpippy97 now they just slap insta-death on it to make it really modern I guess lol
Joe Alexander Don't be so obtuse. You know damn well there's a difference between a timed event quest where you can only fight the monster for a set amount of time and a DPS "check" where if you "fail" the monster merely does more damage.
Can't believe this has to be said.
@Joe Alexander C'mon my dude; I think this is a pretty large jump from "the monster's special move does a lot more damage if you don't break X part before it uses a move" and "the hunt ends early because your team couldn't meet the DPS quota".
Considering hunts are still timed and; outside of the MMO games like Frontier, screen filling death moves generally weren't a thing in previous entries.
Even older elder dragons; who did some annoying things like break your boat, or a wall, or force you to swim for overly long, still didn't just OHKO the entire party for missing an arbitrary damage number. Sure; some decided to just leave if you ran out of time in the mission, but that was always the case.
Though I think if anything the DPS check there was on you and the monster really, since if you kept them from doing their big mechanic it wasn't even an issue to worry about. Hell; most people probably never even knew the dhan boat could break in MH4, as apposed to MH3 jhen boat lol
And that's to say nothing of the way this hunt removes options from play in order to artificially inflate its challenge. No status weapons is bad enough (they did get rid of the counterplay of using poison for Kushala Daora), but pretty much forcing these under-performing parties to just watch themselves die because farcasters are banned is basically a joke. Y'see a lot of teams just abandon rather than deal with the insta-cart mechanic. Even hunts like Gogmazios who has one of the more outrageous special moves still was avoidable, and allowed you to farcaster out if you needed to strategically retreat.
So, no. . . I don't think I'm on the berries. I do think people definitely are trying to be disingenuous and compare this to the older games; going well actually; the games have always had DPS checks'. Its a little revisionist is all.
I've noticed that they're almost trying to turn MH into an MMO.
Login bonuses, timed content, raid bosses, and now dps checks. Those things aren't inherently bad, but MH is not an MMO, and those are all mechanics typical to MMOs.
I just want another MH like the older ones. With the QoL and graphics improvements that World brought to the table.
Amen!
They even made barioths variant an event monster instead of a permanent addition. It's annoying why they can't just keep all quest available.
As long as they make everything possible to be done solo at a reasonable difficulty then I like these mechanics. I think making different versions with harder difficulty that are optional would be healthy for the game. I personally enjoy extremely sweaty difficult experience. I like the feeling of feeling like it's impossible initially. Just to practice improve and get to the point where I'm doing it no problem. I understand there are less skilled or maybe people that don't have the time to invest on acquiring skill that would not appreciate this. But I think making maybe diff difficulty requirements for maybe cosmetic rewards or just something for the more hardcore players to Chase would be beneficial.and then make the standard base weapons armor obtainable for the casual players.
Exactly i hate they people are saying that we’re just whining but no it’s just not what we expect of MH. If they make a separate MH game lime that then it’d be a different story
Ever heard of Monster Hunter Frontier, because that's basically what an Monster Hunter MMO looks like.
So hear me out, how about an "overhaul" on the training area. All these numbers that majority of the players don't know like elemental damage, true raw, etc. Have the training area able to show/teach us instead of it being all hidden numbers.
This is something I was just thinking about, and I would absolutely love. If the team could somehow work in a "chooseable weakness" on the training target so you can compare how much raw damage you do to something with say, 3 star to fire, vs how much damage you do with a fire weapon.
It seems like Capcom just barely wants people to know about these things in the first place. For all the stuff Monster Hunter games can teach you, they really don't teach you much.
Kinda wish it could show different color numbers based on the type of damage you deal, kinda like how dauntless does.
It doesn't need at all.
Crunching numbers is for mimaxing.
For alatreon just chose any weapon with some what good number on it is enough.
@@coolorochi yeah but what is that??? How much elemental damage does a greatsword actually do? What moves do more elemental damage? For extremely experienced players those are easy to answer but noobs?
It ironnic that they tell us to assemble a team, while killing solo is easier"ish"
I guess he is mechanically easier in a team apart from team wipes. But the issue is that randoms are fucking idiots, especially since they could of just killed shara.
For me it feels easier to go duo with a single friend as that allows you to bring the cat that can revive you, to not have the aggro all the time and to coordinate with your friend
Yeah technically HP wise it's actually much each to fight Alatreon in multiplayer because his HP scales only to double his solo HP in a 4 person hunt. So if you had a group of 4 who could solo it then you would kill him much faster.
@@mjw-hk8jf Especially randoms that do the special investigation with a fire or even a blast weapon, yes I've seen those players...
Team =/= randoms
For perspective on where my opinions are based, I’m a first generation player with the franchise and cleared extremoth before the introduction of the G ranked gear from Iceborn. I say that to express my skill and familiarity with the franchise, not to boast.
I don’t like DPS check OHKs. They have never been in the franchise before World, to my memory, and are contrary to the spirit of the game. They take you away from approaching the situation with builds and tactics you enjoy and play the game for, and force you into a specifically geared, specifically armor skilled, playstyle with no room for flexibility of approach.
The penalty for not following a very specific mechanic should be an increase in difficulty, not an absolute wipe. OHK mechanics say to the player, “build and play how we tell you to or you lose, none negotiable”.
These mechanics are not insurmountable and are commonplace in other games like raids in MMOs, however, they are simply not in the spirit of monster hunter. One of the main reasons I play MH is to bask in the flexibility it’s build system has to offer. OHK, elemental specific, DPS checks take that freedom away from the community. That’s not the Monster Hunter I fell in love with.
I agree the EJ is a little bullshitty. Alatreon got too overtuned. The inclusion of inability to tag out with a farcaster would have been just fine.
I mean, the fight itself against the Black Dragon is fun. Ala got all kinds of tricky moves with clear windows to punish if you dodge the right way and right time.
It's like they are trying to train the fans into accepting MMO mechanics for some reason...
It seems they want MHW to be a "cinematic experience" instead of, you know... a GAME about HUNTING MONSTERS.
Of all franchises to turn its back on difficulty, skill, and tactics in recent times... gotta say this one hurts the most. Been with it since the beginning.
Finally, I completely agree with you. I believe this is the reason why I felt this game a little bit "off" compared to the previous titles (though it's still a good game).
Escaton Judgement exists solely because Stickies exist, and rather then nerfing them by removing or kneecapping their ability to stun, Capcom's answer was to build an entire mechanic that at the VERY least requires more thought and execution then "lol stickies go boom boom and monster falls over dead."
In my opinion, while it may feel excessive, isn't that supposed to be the point of an end-game boss? The DPS wall does seem a bit annoying (especially for me as a GS main), but it does encourage you to try and vary up your approaches towards certain monsters.
This isn't even a case of "if all you have is a hammer then every problem is a nail" type of thing, it's all about finding what tools work for what situations. Most of the complaints I've seen seems to boil down to "it's too hard" or "they expect us to fight it differently" or "I am not changing my weapon just for one monster".
While he did kick my ass Day 1 (I only managed to get it done 3 times out of the 11 times we tried hunting it on release), we learned how to fight it more efficiently, we managed to figure out ways of surviving Escaton Judgement and we learned to adapt to it's insanely aggressive attacks. I won't lie that the fight can be pretty frustrating at times, but it's still a great and challenging fight, which is fitting for a "Black Dragon".
Guess what? Not everyone has friends to play this game with so the issue is to practice this thing A LOT for no real reward or team up with random players and hope for the best. Both solutions are inelegant.
@@AirahsELL this monster is even easier going solo if you have the proper build
@@AirahsELL Isn't that the case for every online multi-player game? You're at the mercy of RNGesus on getting competent randoms.
Making him MR 24 means that a lot of people who are not going to be well equipped enough to take on Alatreon, will be taking him on. I have a feeling that if they had restricted the monster to a higher rank, this wouldn't be as much of a problem/controversy
Salty Shunk Now it just sounds like you’re bitching tbh.This monster has already been speedrunned and you’re all out here crying about it’s too hard and shit like that.Alatreoj was SUPPOSED to be hard and the fight goes well with his lore.In my opinion yes the dps gap is annoying but it’s understandable since it is what makes alatreon special.They nailed this monster perfectly and it’s difficulty from the first game he showed up in.
When the game says “assemble a team”, what they’re really saying is “locate a set of three highly skilled veteran players with at least +500 hours of total playtime and fully upgraded weapons and gear specifically tailored to defeat the monster.”
You could make a lobby and strategize with randoms. Despite some not having kjarr/safi gear, the strategy still works. It seems the fight is not designed with SoS flare.
That's what I ended up doing. Had a nasty squad Friday morning.
Yeah, I can't imagine doing this if you aren't in the post MR 100 endgame.
No it doesn't.
It doesn't need end game gears.
It need player actually try to understand how to approach the fight.
It really isn't saying that... All you need is good ice gear (Legiana is perfect for this, easy to get equipment) and some squad coordination.
I really enjoyed the fight in solo. I don't need to broke the horns because I want to keep it changing elements when I'm using Alatreon LBG.
What if you cant get alatreon lbg
@@gaminghunter6741 honestly, i had trouble beating it and after every run, i'd get materials for building the lbg and eventually even got the materials for the upgraded version for it as well. a bit tedious but you also learn alatreon's moveset and get parts as well. pluderblade palico is also great while you learn how to play against it
@@gaminghunter6741 I was able to craft the final version of the alatreon LBG before i killed him a single time xD. Just play alone and take plunderblade with you even if you fail you'll get stuff even his gem.
This is the same way I got Behemoth's insect glaive lol. I just love plunderblade palico.
Sounds fun
I tried this on release for about 9 hours without ever killing it when playing in online lobbies, which to me is a more enjoyable experience than solo play. I didn't kill it once in those 9 hours, and finally gave up on multiplayer. Tried it for an hour or so Solo (mostly just adapting to getting focused the entire fight instead of having the breathing room for sharpening and such that you have in multiplayer) and after maybe 9 or 10 attempts I got it on Solo. After having beaten it and getting access to to the event quests with other players that have beaten it I killed it 6 or 7 times in a row before getting off the game for the night. Just from personal observation I definitely think this fight is easily do-able and fair with enough practice and experience, however the learning curve for it is exceptionally high in my opinion, especially with people like me who are coming from playing with Raw weapons and have limited understanding of how Element damage scales in Monster Hunter. From a game design perspective I agree with you that it's a great thing to push the player out of their comfort zone and get them to try something new, however Monster Hunter has never been (to my knowledge) a game that forced the player in a single direction for itemization and gear choices. It's certainly forced players to play a certain way like with Behemoth, get behind a rock for Ecliptic Meteor, and I think that's definitely healthy for the game, but perhaps not in the way it was done with Alatreon. Another thing is that the Horn break mechanic and Escaton Judgement, while in theory are cool mechanics, really just serve to add artificial difficulty to the fight in my opinion. Alatreon's attacks, while telegraphed and are simple enough to dodge, already add a decent amount of difficulty to the fight, and requires more attention from the player as is than most other monsters. Layering Horns and EJ on top of that, while it serves as an additional layer of difficulty, almost detracts from the basic mechanics of the fight. Having mentioned the learning curve previously, if you layer learning a new weapon type, learning the attack patterns, learning how the fight works, double stacking the goals of suppressing element and breaking horns, regardless of whether or not this is a Black Dragon and an endgame boss, it's just too much to ask from your average player online. If you're struggling with this fight I'd highly recommend reading what you can on how to play an elemental damage type, and working at it solo for the Special Assignment. In doing so you'll learn more about elemental damage and how to deal with this boss, and after you can do online play in the Event quests with other people who have also learned the fight. Those are just my thoughts though, thank you for coming to my TED talk and happy hunting.
well congrats, I'm on 38 hours of gameplay fighting him and I've only beaten it once and oddly enough we had a hacker because we died to every nova but the quest never ended until we beat it...
The fight could be great, if it wasn't for the mechanics not being widely talked about, or misspoke, and that people need to run certain weapon types. Bowgun builds with elements will do great, but melee builds are gonna be in some hurt.
I beat it my first attempt solo my only complaint fighting it solo is that it has waaaaay too much health it did the judgment 4x for me
Alatreon is difficult and is arguably the hardest monster on multiplayer because of ai changes but honestly for me in solo he was semi difficult after only taking 2.5 attempts the second one didn’t really count cause I was sleepy and failed the quest in 6 minutes I killed him in 23 minutes which is much shorter than a tempered Barioth hunt which takes 37 minutes and took 2 attempts and frostfang is going to be a nightmare. The point is a black dragon should be tougher than a overgrown saber tooth abomination
I agree with pretty much all of what younsaud; although as Gaijin pointed out, the games should be more transparent about it's systems and mechanics such as: hitzone values (the number of stars are sometimes misleading) or elemental damage being calculated as a separate value on top of your raw damage value despite us only seeing the one damage value upon hit as the total damage of that hit.
One hit kills in MH are usually unsatisfying, simply because they feel overly punishing of single mistakes. Old school Fatalis obliterating you with his toes doesn't exactly feel great.
On the other hand, I actually think Nakarkos's bigass death ray is a great example of doing it well. It's telegraphed long in advance, and it has multiple ways to counter it. That's prolly why people dislike the Alatreon thing. The mechanic is invisible, and there's really only one solution. Whether it's fair or not, it just feels limiting for a lot of players
Nakarkos was so well telegraphed that even people who didn't know how to stop it due to that mechanic being so fucking esoteric (who brings tranq bombs to an elder dragon?) could just flat out dodge the beam.
@@AirahsELL Wait, you don't just dodge the beam?
@@wakimaki1336 My strategy is to deal enough damage while he is charging the beam to stagger him and prevent his attack.
Oh man! I completely forgot about Nakarkos' death beam. I was saying to myself "only in MHW do you get this stuff"
"unsatisfying, simply because they feel overly punishing of single mistakes". I don't feel like not reaching DPS check is A SINGLE MISTAKE, you have plenty of time to hit him and trip, if you dind't, is because you made several mistakes and failed to do enough DMG.
Invisible mechanhic? The entire fight, those npc's tell you what to do, in counterpart, Nakarkos only hint for using sleep bomb, is it starting on the chest, and also death ray ins't a problem because you have to really force urself to die twice for this move.
Might as well place my thoughts here: Firstly, I LOVE 90% of Alatreon. Gorgeous sound design. Cool elemental attacks. No mandatory Tenderize like Safi. Doesn't have wind aura (weird now that I think about it), or tremors.
Now as for the negatives, let me try to be as objective as possible with this.
1. Alatreon is MR24. This should have NEVER happened. I honestly think this is the biggest reason for all the controversy. MR 100 should have been a minimum. (Same with Raging Brach and Furious Rajang but that's besides the point). And I don't think anyone can disagree on this.
2. DPS checks invalidate a large portion of the game. No not just meta blast sets or whatever. But defense builds, utility builds, meme builds, etc. Even Behemoth and Safi allowed for diversity to a greater extent. A prime example of the extent to which they have not thought about weapon diversity is the elemental value of Switch Axe being the same as Dual Blades. My friends who loves Switch Axe, as well as a lot of other people were so disappointed when they saw that.
2.5) In the one fight where the monster's weaknesses change mid-fight, they don't let you use farcaster. I don't know about others, but this would have been such a cool opportunity for people to have multiple loadouts and swap between them mid-fight. No other hunt really needs this (except maybe Kulve Seige but the first part of that is not even a fight). It would have been such a good use of the tent mechanics. But instead it is all Ice element (or fire) or nothing. This changes nothing in the meta. We just swapped Blast or whatever the meta was, to Ice (or FIre for the other variation of Alatreon event).
3. The game outright hides too much information. I went into the training area, with an ice element weapon and shot the post twice- once with no ice attack up, and once with with max ice attack. The number that popped up was exactly the same. Learning from the community is beautiful and I adore watching videos by RageGaming, TeamDarkSide, NCHProductions, etc. But even I can't stand the fact that element has this much importance with so little (none) information present in the game. What is the difference between 1 star, 2 star and 3 star elemental weakness? Is it the same as status weakness? Who knows. I certainly don't. And this hunt- unlike every other hunt in the game makes it seem like it is punishing you for not knowing things the game itself has hidden. "Use elemental attacks." is not enough information when some elements are far superior than others in some cases.
And lastly, my personal opinion on the "No environment to get in the way" line said in the video. To me that sounds like people just want to fight bosses, not monsters. The fact that Monster Hunter World has detailed environments and interactions is a HUGE plus point. The whole point of monster hunter is built up to be like you're fighting real(ish) animals living normally as part of an ecosytem. This is such a unique and powerful plus point in favor of Monster Hunter World. Yes, I am aware that Elder Dragons are supposed to have superior intelligence and stuff (and are somehow capable of defying gravity in their sleep by not falling into a pitfall trap- also known as a hole).
1) Yeah, Raging brachy should have been MR100. I agree. The reason being is because - holy shit power creep! The Raging Brachy armor set is just waaaaay too efficient at adding agitator to your build that it became the new must have. The issue with that, is it means that if you aren't going for Raging Brachy as soon as you're able to, you're technically not being efficient with your time and always be sub-optimal. This is a problem because the fight was balanced for MR100+ gear in mind. So you look at the gear, drool over how good it is, and go into the fight, only to constantly cart unless you never get hit because none of your defense is augmented nor do you have health augment for your weapon.
2) I agree. DPS checks allow the DPS only meta to be proven by the devs that it's the "correct" way to play, which creates a toxic environment for those who don't like glass cannon builds.
3) THIS! This alone makes me wish I could just drop everything and play the game on PC so I can have mods to give me real DPS numbers. I don't need things like HP bars, because I believe that goes against the feel of the game, but when the game demands elemental knowledge without the tools within the game to learn it... I seriously can't blame PC players for having mods that actually GIVE this information, because as a PS4 player, I WANT it!
4) I have to politely disagree with this last one. Epic final encounters in movies, DnD and video games have always had their own final arena, and it's very fitting narrative wise.
@Joe Alexander Looking at Alatreon's shit elemental hitzones, some people will assume it's balanced around Safi and Kulve powercreep meta. I'm not truly offended by how the Escaton Judgement works, but I'm offended with how it is mostly balanced around those unfix-able powercreeps.
Civil Chev on point 2 that’s why they made it an elemental check so you only need max element and maybe max crit if you’re running critical element that’s plenty of room to add defensive skills
Jordan William monster hunter is power creep that’s the entire design philosophy of the game start weak kill stronger monsters and get stronger gear. It’s not a bug it’s a feature and it always has been
@@justinsaunders110 For Max Element the most efficient way is to get a level 5 charm, so this fills up your charm slot. For Crit Element on melee weapons you're only able to use KT because it already has it on the weapon if you're using blademaster, and you need to run three pieces of Teo for Master's Touch to keep up with the sharpness of said weapons, so your last two is either defense gear, or raging brachy because it's more efficient and you gain more out of it.
For gunner it's four pieces of Silver los for True Crit Element with one other piece.
So please tell me how you can fit in defense while still having Master's Touch / Sharpness+ and max element with crit element.
The positive of multiplayer is the thrill of finally being able to join a room with 2 Alatreon Dominator/Soul fire rasp blazes lmao.
For real if there are two of them in the hunt the other two hunters can literally run status/raw without any issues
Alatreon Dominator and Kjarr DBs are my saviors
This is true
Alatreon Dominator is cheese mode for the beast
lmao, thought it was just me only SOSed with those ppl
I am that person loooooool
The hardest part of the hunt was the 5038f-MW1.
In all seriousness though, I immediately hated the fight especially when I was still doing it with randos and trying it with lobbies as well. EJ feels like it disragards teh effort each of us are putting in the hunt to pass its dps check.
After a while, i resigned myself to soloing it since many others are saying it is much easier. Managed to build the light bowgun from the scraps of failed hunts with full safi β set and managed to beat him finally.
It took me a couple of tries, some failing early on while others failed when the skull icon already appeared. After beating it, the struggle of learning the moves and behavior of the monster greatly reminded me of my noob days back in mhfu on the psp and why I fell in love with the seriea to begin with. I admit that I got complacent with mhwi since only a few content is difficult like extremoth and alatreon.
That is why this hunt is an eye opener for me.
Sorry for the long comment. I just wanted to put my thoughts on this hunt. Thank you for posting his video Gaijin! I wanted to know your thoughts about it as well.
Same. Agree 100%
Well said. Capcom made the game easier to play. Mhfu did not hold your hand.
@@Briareos433 Instead it slapped you with broken hotboxes *cough* *cough* plesioth *cough*
Agree
The developers really need to show elemental damage in the game if they want to give players a monster that functions so strongly upon the mechanic.
World is my first ever MH, so I was expecting Ala to be tough, but sweet god he was wrecking me and the groups I was in. After a hours of frustrating losses, I started to see I was dealing with his attacks a lot better and now I see he has a lot of openings with his attacks. Even when Ala was wrecking me, I never thought of his fight was "bad", just unfair till I got better. I can reliably pass the dps checks, but I never been a fan of them since they feel like fake difficulty.
In regards to randoms, they can be a pain since you literally don't know who you'll get, you can get pass monsters with them. A group of randoms helped me with tempered behemoth back then. I would love to have a group of skilled friends I can rely on to play with in future MH games without them being elitists cause the game is way more fun with a group of friends, but due to my introverted nature, who knows when that'll happen.
One more negative to the horn break mechanic: the whole point that Alatreon uses his horn to control the elements, right? Then why is he able to shift elements when both horn is broken?! Like it doesn't really makes sense in my opinion...
Tbh that's my only complaint with him 'cus it creates sort of a second type of dps check... you either kill him before the EJ or you screwed (that happend to me multiple times)
That's interesting, when I've fought him he's always close to enough to death after the second horn break. The only time he's gotten to a 3rd EJ is when we failed to break the horns.
😂 good point
@@SubjectE57 I don't have ps+ (and don't want to farm savi and kulve solo) so I had to use base iceborne equipment wich is a bit lacking... I killed him eventually but I still died twice in the process
This is my only complaint in this hunt. I was surprised on one hunt that it still changed to ice element after the 3rd judgment (and goodness I was wearing Kjarr Ice). I had to tank the last judgment to finish the hunt.
Yes, this is honestly my only issue with the fight. I find that the elemental flinch isn't too hard to hit as long as you're building for it and it's also very easy to break the horns between each EJ.
So far every run I've had where we've survived the 3rd EJ, we're just left to die since he still shifts into the opposite element and we can no longer flinch him, despite the fact we were getting the flinches and horn breaks up to that point with ease. Even on solo attempts trying to use fire/ice I'm able to get to the 3rd EJ and then my strategy just devolves into die on every EJ until the quest ends in whichever outcome happens first.
Having him locked to his current element after the 2nd horn break feels like the only actual change this fight needs.
I think the thing that hurts the most with Judgement is I don't consider myself a bad player. I'm not a maxed out all the perfect gems and perfect set up hunter but i'm not a casual player. I consider my weapons and set up, I take the time to learn a monsters mechanics. If i die to a monster it's generally because I fucked up and made a mistake, i didn't dodge or i rolled the wrong way ect. But the OHKO punishes you for an arbitrary reason and after a while it just becomes disenheartening and makes you want to stop all together.
The stop, so we nerf this coz you are bad
This means u are not ready to fight him. Play more get better gear if u wish to conquer. Or don't and cheat, ur game. But no nerf, this literally is the only monster that put up a fight, we tend to keep it and enjoy it. Because other hunts are just slaughters.
I wouldn't say it's arbitrary. This whole monster is based around elements. Makes perfect sense that you need to deal a lot of elemental damage. Escaton adds some urgency to the fight and also forces elemental builds. Alatreon made me grind for an ice build. Once I got my build, hitting the dps check we no sweat
Yeah, but this wants you to be better than "just the person thats a little better than the average hunter" because it forces you to play aggressively, knowing his patterns and knowing when to attack aggressively within his animations even before his attacks finish their animations so that you can dish out more dps.
@@Tommyvang187 i kicked his ass today and escaton judgement still fucking sucks, its a boring and cheap way to give false difficulty to a fight
The game doesn't even teach you how to fight Alatreon
"yo do some elemental damage to weaken it"
Everything I learned about the monster comes from guides
That does suck, but it's nothing new to World. MH has always sucked a gigaton of ass when it comes to ingame information. World is pretty much the best one when it comes to that.
No info does kinda fit Alatreon's tier though. Capcom never really talks about the Black Dragons.
But this time it's actually very clear.
They said it at developer dairy,
And when fighting there is hit from NPC.
Then every fight NPC will tell you to use element, when element check pass, and breaking horn
Believe me when i tell you this game give much more information than previous entries
I wonder if they wanted to make a training run like Safi'Jiiva but they couldn't because of the coronavirus.
To be honest, I've never played Monster Hunter to play online. I've always only been a solo hunter, it makes me feel way more accomplished that way.
If you solo freedom unite then you will achieve true power
@@muzankibutsuji3949 I'm sure a lot of people had to solo freedom unite because of a lack of friends that played it or the lack of access to an internet connection.
I did solo freedom unite.
@@muzankibutsuji3949 survived the broken hit box
Personally I'm sick and tired of MHW's answer to difficulty just being "Add another super nova, but make it even worse this time." Monster Hunter never used to need this for every single monster in the past. I support them taking the item box away from players though.
His difficulty isn't even the nova, most people I've seen die from his normal attacks.
@@tzoanast1061 true. The dps check aren't really a problem because it's relatively easy to get.
Ok... what other monsters other then Safi and behemoth has a one shot kill super nova? Heck even behemoth's nova can be dodge.
the nova isnt even close the thing that kills most people, you can get the dps check so fucking quick, i dont know who thinks that the nova is a problem in this fight
As someone who is still fairly new to MHW (e.g. HR14), I like how not ALL of the post-launch additions are strictly endgame monsters. Deviljho, for example, can appear as early as HR13 (I encountered one on literally the first story expedition into Elder's Recess!).
But I agree that the _mindset of_ "this post-launch monster MUST be MORE threatening than the last one" is a problem of its own, and the wrong approach to design. Alatreon is an event quest, I get that, but you can't keep cranking the dial up to 11, to 12, then 13, then 14...
"Planing out the fight"
"If he start with fire, use ice."
That's a bit too complex for me.
You joke now, but there's a reason so many people are failing the quest...
@Joe Alexander I kinda feel like you missed the joke here lol
@@solarchaos3345 Shh shh, let him feel like he is helping.
@@lycanrocknroll9158 Ohhh right right. I gotchu.
Hey Joe, thank you for the advice, it really helped out.
One infuriating part of the fight is going into last dragon phase and he wastes your time by flying for 3 whole minutes making you miss the fight by 1000 damage
I liked the fight until the EJ, I just can't seem to hit the DPS check no matter how I play. (GS main) i can brake the horns like twigs but in this eteration means nothing.been playing on/off since 4u and this is the first time I can safely say, this fight doesn't feel like a MH fight it feels like an MMO fight because of the dps checks. A OHKO that's un avoidable no matter what you do unless you meet the threshold. That's what pushed me to not like this fight. Still trying and adapting to him and just not good enough to beat him. IMO the only change I'd make to this fight is get rid of the DPS check and tie the nova streghth to the amount of horns broken, that would be great. you could still survive and manage to kill him eventually and would only worry about getting hit by his attacks.
I also agree with your thoughts on the matter and the Behemoth comparisons were on point. Thanks for this video.
The thing is , GS is a bad weapons for elemental damage ...
Thats why you maybe not dealing enough elemental damage for him to fall
@@juniorpaiva1368 It actually has a higher modifier than everything other than gunlance.
it just also swings a helluva lot slower than most.
@@Jpippy97 Not for elemental, Its pure raw, slow weapon are bad for elemental weapons
@giuseppe zavaglia no.... I will not a adapt... I will use best wepon [Berioth] gs and will be victorious in about 30 minutes from fight start. Which I have already done in groups and solo. Still need wings though. Gonna need to see a guid for that maybe hbg crit draw? Might work and this fight still after defining him twice still doesn't feel like a mh fight. Just feels like an MMO boss raid to me.
@giuseppe zavaglia bad MMO gimmick, mate. It's literally the only thing people are complaining about.
Good of you to dodge it completely by stating non-arguments like some braindead zombie.
One of my frustrations is that even if you pass the DPS check you have to heal through the Nova or it will still kill you. That’s not a very satisfying reward.
@TheBuragi He didn't say it wasn't easy, he said it was unsatisfying.
@TheBuragi healing isnt routine if you do good, its annoying that theres a part of the fight that forces you to use your resources because you did the fight RIGHT, when thats not how the entire rest of the game works
@TheBuragi Why are you mad about this man's opinion
my man, u're just one astera jerky to surpass ur frustation.
Really? I never thought it was unsatisfying because all I needed was a single well timed Astera Jerky lol. Hell, Escaton is basically free damage for you because you can attack it while it's charging up and still manage to heal the damage after because that move takes forever to charge up.
I think Alatreon really showed the divide in the community between people who play aggressively and people who play more casually
Very much a casual player and this OHK mechanic just puts me off even attempting to fight it.
Casual player here too
@@necromancer1983x You could do it but you need to prepare a lot and probably need to watch at least two alatreon guides and also assemble a squad of people you can communicate with and if you do that you'll probably be able to do it on your 5th try or so
Demi Ajomale any lbg that can do ice fire or both as rapid can smash him and only prep you need is jerky and meds to keep health yellow usem as he does wind up then nova and you are fine his aggressive style and big aoe hits are the worst parts not his dps check nova since solo that dps check isnt that bad given he has less health solo plus you can break his horn to prevent dragon mode and lock his element type. overall he is soloable and if you look at older games black dragon solo required peak gear items and play it isnt the case here
also ive seen vids of his ice walls somehow blocking his nova idk whats up w this mechanic but it exists
GaijinHunter has definitely nailed a lot about the general idea and where the problems are with Alatreon and OHK moves, but there is one other thing that bothers me about it that isn't quite captured in this video.
It's that the OHK moves just feel like a gimmick, and kind of a cheap one. Once you've overcome this issue a couple times, it's just no longer fun anymore. There is something special about fighting a monster that is strictly just difficult, with no gimmicks of any kind and it's just about Monster Hunter at its core principles. Personally all of my favorite fights are the far more conventional ones, like Zinogre, Brachydios, Shara Ishvalda, and Gogmazios.
It's important to remember that gimmicks can be done well though, where it doesn't feel cheap like with Gore Megala and Dalamadur. It's about making it interesting without creating a harsh binary condition.
Of course MHW:I is still a fantastic game and without the gimmick, Alatreon is still a fantastic fight. It wouldn't be worth complaining and arguing about it if Capcom wasn't so close to perfection already.
If you're referring to escaton judgement. I actually love it. Compared to other monsters there's a sense of urgency here. No other monster has made me feel that urgency. I've killed him many times now and he's kinda made other monsters a bit boring. I'm stuck in the grinding lands doing mindless hunts rn and I often find myself trying to help other hunters with alatreon instead just because the fight is so fun. I don't think his one shot feels like a gimmick and I like the stress it adds to the fight.
"It's that the OHK moves just feel like a gimmick, and kind of a cheap one. Once you've overcome this issue a couple times, it's just no longer fun anymore"
THIS RIGHT HERE! This is the reason why I do not really enjoy Alatreon that much despite being able to beat in 10 minute or less. Once you get ahold on it, there is no urgency in this move, it's just kind of there. It either just kills you or it doesn't. And both isn't fun. You either see a move incoming you are not allowed to avoid, causing frustration, or a move that barely does anything.
@@MrEinFan If your playing solo there was never a urgency there to being with, you can casually suppress that mechanic on solo play. Multiplayer however the urgency still exist. The problem i see here is that solo play needs the numbers buffed a bit.
The first time I fought behemoth and I realized they not only disable Guts, Moxie, Guard Up, dodge dive, but Farcaster as well, I was practically dumbfounded. What shocked me so was not the challenge of the fight, but the extent they had desecrated the skills, items, and moves I grew up with just to make artificial, cheating, gimmicked difficulty.
Not to sound overly dramatic, but I literally felt violated. I felt insulted. I felt cheated. I felt nerfed. That’s not a good feeling.
Some try to counter argue with “git gud”, but this concept has nothing to do with what my opinion in based in. I’ve been with the series since MH1 on PS2 and cleared Extremoth before Iceborne. Skill is a nonissue for me.
Principal, fairness, and fun is my issue here, and I find OHK checks to be lacking in all these areas. The Monster Hunter I fell in love with was better than this and I feel disappointed in the direction World has taken the series in this specific regard.
Ever since I made my critical element/safi build, I completely love the fight precisely because escaton becomes an afterthought. At the beginning I hated the monster, but once I took the elemental thing seriously, I love the fact that I have a reason to really go all out with elemental builds, something that was pretty much useless before
Sounds like a pain, I can’t even find a group capable of surviving ecliptic meteor.
I'd call Ecliptic Meteor more BS than Escaton Judgement. Judgement you can at least keep from being a team kill by being active and just fighting like feels correct to do. Ecliptic Meteor you just have to accept it when it starts coming down and if the comets all got destroyed, placed to close to a wall, or a tornado got put to close to them, your team just eats the death (unless they are really good with the jump gesture), no amount of fighting or active play style fixes those problems once the problems are made.
If you’re on PS4 and need a carry, I got you
@@JaCk9ZhEng can i get some help lol?
@bananacush lol, sure. If it’s regular behemoth it’ll be cake. For extreme it’s gonna take a little bit of effort. I guess we can figure out a window that’ll work and post the session ID, I’ll pop in and we can do it.
@@JaCk9ZhEng im atm work atm but im almost done , ill send you mi id in PM
Overall, Alatreon is one of the best fights in the game. Everything outside of Escaton Judgment is beautifully done and it reminds me a lot of old world Rajang. He's relentless and hits hard, but is VERY punishable.
I'm conflicted on Escaton Judgment.
I love it because it pushes a number of people(myself included) out of their convenience zone of raw/status that works well on pretty much everything. I've only realized the enjoyment of making elemental sets because of this OHKO.
I hate it mainly because of multiplayer. One full Escaton Judgment can instantly end the hunt. I'd like for them to elevate the requirements to at LEAST MR 100 before anyone is able to join/initiate the quest. This would mean that the people hunting him would already have the resources to make appropriate sets.
That's the worst part about all this. The fight itself is fun. His hitboxes are fair, his attacks are well animated, etc... But they creating a fucking miserable mechanic that tosses over half the weapons in the game into the trash, creates massive incentive to play the hunt solo, AND requires a type of build 99% of the game doesn't require (elemental). It's like making someone a beautiful meal, but there's a steaming turd on top. Come on, Capcom.
RicochetForce People have solo'd with all the weapons, yes even GS.
@@genradiata1723 I've seen more people complete it with GS than with dual blades.
RicochetForce yet this addresses a problem that no one wants to recognize as a problem. In general most builds are raw or blast, with poison in tow. Even merely suggest a fight to require anything else than that becomes persecuted as bad design. It is, in my opinion, a bad mentality that isn't recognized because perhaps a vast majority use it -- a tyranny of the majority that will blame Capcom first rather than recognize the pitfalls of their rigid, static, and even sometimes defeatist mindset.
@@RicochetForce 99% of the game doesn't require (elemental) then why Safi armor, wps are meta? And 3/4 of all wps in this game are elemental wps.
Me, someone who always focuses Elemental Damage because that's how i love to hunt:
"My time has come."
cringe
@@DramaticT Ha ha Yeah, a valid response. It really wasn't that funny.
Yea switch axe elemental is fun
I always went for elemental damage, since the beginning of the game, they told me "hey, this monster is weak to this element" so I used that element. And I had a lot of fun playing that way, at least that way I have a reason to hunt a big variety of monsters, trying out which weapon I like more, and not centering on usin the same weapon for the entire game.
I play aerial Insect Glaive and the amount of people telling me I deal no damage made me invest in elemental sets. But now I only fly when the monster is enraged to not waste the damage from flinch shots (vs. accidental mounts).
In my experience, only the special assignment is pain because you have loads of clueless people who go in with raw weapons. I needed like 20 tries before I beat him online but afterwards doing the event quest, most people know what they are doing.
The pain comes not from the lack of knowledge of the hunt. Anyone can arm themselves with elemental weapons. That's not what people are complaining about. The monster is not unbeatable. With enough patience, anyone can solo it. What people are complaining about is the execution of said tactics. Punishing raw and status weapon users with unavoidable carts shows that the Monster Hunter team don't think about their player base at all. It seems as childish as the time they took away slicing ammo and nerfed it so much it became useless (or should I say, impractical?) If I was to describe the devs of this game in one word, it would be "immature."
im in lobbies and they keep bringing raging brachydios weapons or safis venom blade.
@@sanitybroken855 i agree with you 100000% and they are the same players who use all the carts
@@Chaosdogg47 As a raw damage purist, I'm annoyed that I can't bring raw into this fight, but I'll do it simply because Alatreon is worth it.
@@Spore9996 ye, i had a pierce hbg set up to RUIN this guy like nergi, but not only did they make him resistant to physical ammo, but also theres little to no good explanation on how much elem dmg you will be doing with each shot. Theres only 2 lbgs that this fight likes and its alatreons dominator and soulfire rasp blaze
I am done with the armor and am now farming him for his weapons.
Overall, I much enjoy this fight. But because I always hunted him in a group, I had a hard time noticing good, punishable openings. So I tried my first solo hunt, which took a lot of time, much longer than with a coordinated group.
Coming to forming a group to fight him, it is really hard. Whenever I hunt in a random group in a lobby (Not doing S.O.S. flares), I double check the gear of my partners and ask of them to cover the necessary elements. That is one thing I noticed the game lacked heavily compaired to older titles:
Communication.
People barely communicate with each other, or planned the hunt beforehand. But by doing that, we managed nearly every hunt against him. Yesterday I went into a hub with a few friends and noticed people starting a fight because they failed the quests, calling out the other for bad gear.
That is not helping. That is not going to improve your success rate. Give constructive criticism and suggestions.
The dps check is managable. Even without Safi weapons, there are still good alternatives when it comes to element, and I don't mean a different weapon class entirely. But for Alatreon, we have to roll back and think! He is tough. He is a black dragon, a walking catastrophe. We have to adapt to it.
And the most important advice I can give her...is to never give up.
Alatreon can be an extremely frustrating fight and when loss after loss comes, of course you get angry. But the one who loses is the one who stays on the ground. You get up, take a deep breath, and plan for the next round.
I wish you all good luck! You can do this!
"People buy MH to play online"
And then there is me, who bought the game because I can perfectly do most of the content solo, so I don't need to pay for PS+
Have fun soloing safijiva lol
@@MonoHamtaro I unironically did. It isn't really hard, just takes a long time. Just put something in the background while playing, maybe a podcast or something, then put the ps4 in rest mode instead of turning it off, and bam, solo safi.
switch to pc
@@TheSasukefire11 will still play solo on PC lol
The only time i actually play online is the safi siege or to help out struggling players tbh
I love the new Alatreon fight, it's definitely his best fight yet.
That being said, what I don't like about the way to cancel out escaton judgement is that, before this one fight, you could beat any MH monster with virtually any weapon, this one fight breaks that aspect of Monster Hunter that I've honestly always found really cool.
Yeah it's how I feel too. You build specific sets of gear for tough monsters but at the end of the day, you're still able to beat them even if you're not fully optimized. The DPS check doesn't really allow that and it's a lot more restrictive.
"Breaks the monster hunter aspects", they just added a dps check...
I'll be honest, I was one of those bashing it at the start, but I have several clears now and it is really not that bad. I've been playing multiplayer with randoms as well. Sometimes the team can be hit or miss, but the main problem has been people just carting to his regular attacks, escaton judgement hasn't even been the cause of my failures once. Repetition is key. Everyone can bring in a good set and learn the fight eventually.
P.S. I still don't really agree with the whole OHKO mechanic in monster hunter, but it is definitely manageable with practice and knowledge of the monster. Cheers hunters!
The problem with escaton is not that it kills you. It probably wont. But it means that you are not allowed to play the game like you want to. Especially with playstyles that dont work with elements at all.
@TheBuragi See, i have no problem with preparing for and endgame fight. New armor, weapon that works better with the build, specialized item sets and skills that help.
Solo farming 136+ Guild quests in 4u needet that. Apex Jho/Jang without at least the rocksteady skill is a no no.
But the most brutal quests in any other monsterhunter, quests that are far more difficult never made me feel like my choice of weapon type was not up for the task. Elemental Damage sucks for alot of weapons. If element was vialble i wouldn't mind making elemental sets for all my weapons, but it is just bad.
You can do the fight with everything when playing solo, just cart on Ej and nowhere else and you can pull through. But i want to play multiplayer and also not be detrimental to the team, so i pick a weapon that actually works with element but is much less enjoyable, do the fight once or maybe twice if someone wants his stuff for completionism and than go back to the quests were i can play my weapons.
Its only one fight so whatever, but i still think its bad design.
Its a disgusting mechanic Imo, just a cheap way to increase the difficulty and punishing the player...
@@zaifir8119 This information probably hasn't made the rounds widely enough yet but the EJ weakening has a modifier that ends up helping less elemental weapons get a bit more elemental damage towards weakening EJ. For example, DBs get a 0.6 elemental modifier towards weakening while GS gets a 1.1 modifier helping to make up some of that difference.
Your channel helped me a ton in MH4U and it’s been a blast coming back to the channel when I got MHGU. Love your videos on World even though the game isn’t for me.
I feel like the ohk move should've been a move similar to valstrax's big dive move when u get hit by it. Instead of killing the players outright, it should take 90% of their max health. That's create enough tension since you'll be using your healing items still and you still can't go back to camp to restock. Just have alatreon recover from his big attack sooner and have him start wailing on the players sooner to keep that tension high. Josh on pro/noob did a video about it and does a better job of explaining it
Ya but whats stoping players from saving temporal mantle and healing through it.or still using the health booster to recover while the monster is still in animation. The dps check should be lessened if it was easier to hit most ppl would be fine.
Valstrax’s dive is also pretty boring to actually fight, but I like the idea of making Alatreon recover sooner while having the tail state for the attack not be instant death. This would also balance the attack better for multiplayer since instead of KOing everyone at once, Alatreon would still have to pick them off one at a time.
lionArt&Tricks make it tick damage, but leave one hp, similar to the guts skill and no red health.
Latrodectus mactans they could also make alatreon have a third level of aggro after the supernova move so all players have one hp left and they’re forced to fight a faster stronger alatreon with fear
I say that video and it does a really good job at explaining why Alatreon feels so frustrating, the pay off to passing the skill check is so little compared to what you lose if you don't and even if the fight is fair, psychologically, the mechanic is just too frustrating
I've been an active player of MH games for over a decade. I've played every one I could get my hands on, and consider myself very capable. However, this quest is infuriating to me; mostly because I don't have friends who still play Iceborne, leaving me to either solo the quest or kneel at the mercy of the SOS flare. What you said about relying on randos is completely true- it's almost certain failure. That leaves me to solo it, though breaking the horns or meeting the elemental DPS requirement is made substantially more difficult as I'm left to face the brunt of the attacks myself.
I love everything about the fight except for the OHKO. The attacks are varied, the music is great, the stage is cinematic, etc. Alatreon has been one of my favorites since its introduction, so I'm stubbornly refusing to give up just yet.
well i'm the same like u then. been trying these 4 days, but still couldn't beat it. altho there's sign of improvement everyday
Some Tips: If he flies use 3 Smoke bombs and some new ones. He search for you and land on the ground.
When you got past the dps check and uses his Ult, use 2 jerkey for the red health bars timed. When you toppeld him 2 times before judgement you can only use one jerkey and if you like a potion
I find it easier solo, I can easily knock it down within 2-3 mins when using Kjarr elemental weapons (except dragon ones). And it only take 1k2-1k3 dmg to break the horn during it's dragon stance. While in multiplayer people don't even know you should break the horn
Honestly never use an SOS flare for these types of endgame hunts. Search for a lobby via online filter search. Everyone will be in the gathering hub and focused on completing the quest. In general, everyone is going to be more competent than your standard SOS flare rando.
It took me about 10 attempts to clear the special assignment with randoms (I'm sure it could have taken a lot longer and I consider myself lucky), but the randoms you are matched with in the event quests are much better as they have already killed Alatreon and know what's up.
I don't hate Alatreon,i hate the elitists that act like an asshole everytime someone say they are having trouble with Alatreon.Yes i'm talking about you Mr."Huh duh just solo it bro" and Ms."Omg just git gud"
Kinda sad isn't it. I've seen the mess it left behind whenever someone dared to say anything against the elemental DPS check. Just e-peen after e-peen boasting from the same meta licking dung-stains.
I don't hate Alatreon either, I really like his fight and it's tons of fun. And I'm confident enough to say that many people do too, it's just that one single thing that's a downer for them and that is the DPS check killing them (and me). That is the only thing people have anything against and these guys that use 'git gud' as a catchphrase don't understand that.
@TheBuragi That almost sounds like an assumption that I'm still struggling with the assignment.
As for the angry at people saying 'just solo it' part, I'm actually more mad at people that talk down at anyone that even remotely struggles with anything and going about crying how terrible it is playing with others online. Well, wouldn't you know it but I almost exclusively play with random people online and while the special assignment was a bit of a struggle, it got done in the end and cleared a good few hunts with said randoms. They aren't anywhere near as bad as people are making them out to be.
In the end of it all I'm just sick of people starting petty flexes whenever something pops up that someone else isn't a fan of and that EJ that Alatreon has got going on in World is it. everything else about Alatreon is fine as is.
@TheBuragi Sigh... welp, I just had to open my mouth...
"You have to realise the opposing side is veterans that played old MH titles" Oh? And I haven't? I started with 3U (on the 3DS so... never got to play online until 4U) and I fought Alatreon there. He kicked my ass many times, but eventually got there, done him, you get the idea. And *you* also need to realize that it's not the fight itself people have been complaining about. It's. Just. That. DPS check nonsense. That's all I'm saying, that's all I think I should allow myself to talk to you with before either one of us throws a punch at the monitor and just leave it at that while I go about my day as usual.
Oh and... "There weren't many all purpose meta sets"? Really? Hold that thought.
(Flashback to my time playing 4U, Gen and GenU of tons of people wearing the same meta set towards the endgame.)
Hmmm...
The fight is meant to be hard. I watched a stream of someone play and he had been running the quest, shoot, i cant even say how long. He said during the stream he had been running for weeks. Some of us asked him to check his build and we basically told him the build was holding him back. He didn't relent for a while because he said he invested a lot of time into his build (it was a dragon sa build). He couldn't clear the check consistently because he was using a dragon weapon. During that same stream, he was able to defeat the monster ON THE FIRST TRY. Why? Because he took our recommendations and built for ice. Sometimes you just gotta look for what you can do differently and try to make adjustments.
@@7th-derp41 the dps check is there to force players to be aggressive and to prevent players from cheesing the monster. Would it have been better if they made his attacks less telegraphed, gave you less windows to punish, and gave him a 20 minute time limit? It would have been the same thing - "the time limit is too hard. Why would they only give us 20 minutes for this monster?"
Most people are ok with the fight otherwise - yeah, because alatreon is not that difficult outside of that pressure dps check. He has very forgiving hitboxes and his attacks are very telegraphed with long windows for applying damage if you have good positioning. Anyone thats having difficulty with the check needs to create a build that will allow them to pass the check and they need to maintain pressure on the monster.
Dont have the gear to pass the check? You can always ask someone who's beaten it what works and create a similar build? Or make your own and see what works. I made several builds to test out what works before I figured out a build that I like and allows me to clear the check.
If you feel you have a good build, check your damage. Maybe you're spending too much time trying to reposition and not dealing enough damage.
Ill tell the dragon weapon users this though - it takes A LOT of dragon to cross the threshold. I know a lot of people want to run dragon because it means you don't have to break his horns, but there's a cost that goes with that element choice...
From my point of view, having a "You lose" state in a game like monster hunter seems a bit off. In every other monster hunter game there's been counterplay to a monster's "Big move" Whether it's gittin gud and dodging or flinching it, there was always a way to deal with it but with Ala there's no sense of "I can back off and regroup." You just lose if you don't do it and that doesn't feel very monster hunter to me.
Thinking back to fights like bloodbath Diablos, even when it was spinning out of control and jumping out of the ground like the drill from hell, you could alway deal with it but this is a move that says "You lose" and that doesn't seem to fair. Mhw has a problem with monsters having massive "Inescapable" F U moments that seem a bit messed up to dodge all the time and this just feels like the cherry on top. The way I see it, this basically says mhw, now with an instant death and no counterplay. Aside of course passing the dps check. The fight itself is good enough without something as frustrating and anti fun as judgment. I say anti fun because no one likes seeing him take a fifteen second long animation to wipe your entire party and end your quest because you didn't dps hard enough. I don't know man, it feels wrong.
It feels more like something you'd see in a raid, like in a game like Destiny. "Do enough damage to this boss before he wipes you" and then restart for hours til you get it
Monster hunter was hard enough without the nuke attacks.
Yeah the team behind world and iceborne seem to be getting a little obsessed with adding in over the top flair in their fights.
I get these monsters are supposed to be big and bad. But there are other ways to express that intention than giving monsters super modes or extremely powerful big bang moves. The worst part is that some of these ohko moves can bug out and kill the players unfairly (looking at you Safi), not to mention that while it's fun to see it once or twice by the 10th time you're seeing safi nuke the arena the spectacle is basically dead.
I couldn't agree more with what you said. Man, that Bloodbath reference gave me PTSD symptoms XD
@@matthewbailey2744 I'm glad it's not just me noticing the trend. Then there's G-rank Lunastra. It's a trend that could have ended with Ala. The hunt is challenging on its own, doesn't need a balls to the wall anus breaking attack because the hunt in itself has all the things it needs. You can't infinite heal, you can't run, it's literally an old school monster hunt but faster. It just feels cheap to have something like "Lolgg" in monster hunter.
I have been very vocal about alatreon on twitter mostly about this subject so I will try to keep my opinion brief, I feel that while alatreon can be learned, defeated and in some cases toyed with it doesnt change the fact that his dps check and the race to stop it have problems built into it that make it feel very anti monster hunter to alot of the community
And an addition to the behemoth comparison, behemoths instant death was acceptable because it was entirely skill based, he summoned comets and it became your job to kite him away and guard them with your life but still keep enough distance to run back ito them in time. Alatreons is based solely on your damage output there is no survival for the solely skilled, only the aggressive
Extremoths dps check was also any damage and on a monster that was a large not very mobile target. Alatreons dps check is elemental only and on a smaller much more agile and flying target
I would say that being skilled is actually the same as being very good at playing aggressive.
Dude, Alatreon's DPS check is SO fucking easy to meet that I just use it for free damage. Toppling him 2-3 times before the first nova is unbelievably common (I play in multiplayer). I have done this on Greatsword, Hammer, Longsword, and Dual Blades. Most of the weapons I mentioned here are "bad" for element according to the community. Why did I make it work? Because I have good gear and I play well. Those are the secrets, both of which are VERY Monster Hunter.
@@xhephergaming Good, you're good at speed running the game. I'm used to fights giving me 50 minutes to complete. I can take my time, play carefuly, and enjoy the game that way. I can beat Alatreon on my own, but I don't like to be rushed.
@@chewbacachunks8644 I agree and disagree, skilled can equate to the aggression needed to put alatreon down, but if for example you spent your world and iceborne time becoming skilled at a say defensive lance play style or a supportive horn style your skill does not equate to putting Alatreon down and your time and skill is wasted.
And im aware it something to be adapted to, to evolve and learn from
I respect the opinion you have and wont be against you for it but thats how I view it for the time being
@@xhephergaming well constructed gear and good play are very monster hunter I wont contest that and I congratulate you on your skill
What makes it feel very anti monster hunter is its restriction of player choice, play style and it takes focus away from the monster
You fight a safi with your weapons, your choice of playstyle and you go into the hunt preparing for safi
You fight alatreon with weapons you may be unfamiliar with, a playstyle you may not have fostered and you go into the hunt preparing for ecaton judgment not alatreon himself
And while I will concede this mechanic has a home in monster hunter an immediate fail state do or die should be reserved for siege monsters (and behemoth but hes a special angry dogo)
I will also concede that there is nothing wrong with building for a difficult monster to take advantage of its fight or weaknesses, but doing it for alatreon isnt for making it easier or doing something different or fun, an alatreon focused killing build is a necessity to succeed, there is no variety or choice in the matter
people can get better, improve, adapt and eventually defeat the blazing black alatreon hell I can do the cha cha slide around him for as long as need be, that still doesnt mean its a fight not to be criticised or without fault
An extra note for horn break: the areas that you can wall-slam Alatreon is so small that you can easily rotate it past the spot with the clutch claw. This causes even more frustration because the other consistent method of bringing Alatreon down to hit its horns is an elemental break during dragon form, which can also prove difficult since fire/ice is less effective during dragon form. After completing the entire armor set, I just really want them to make the wallslam hitboxes easier to work with (especially since it's hard to communicate where to keep Alatreon during a fight online)
People keep trying to get wallslams when shooting it out of the air is like 100 times easier..
@@ShawnBaalHeath Well slams are pretty reliable as long as he's lined up right. Does require you to keep tabs on the nearest wall and his orientation though so waiting for him to fly up or use an attack that makes him fly to then floor-bang is much easier most of the time.
One time, I had him lined up with the wall almost perfectly during the fight, he was off to the left by a small margin and just watching him run at this huge boulder without givin a fok, without even smashing into it was pretty irritating
he has after like every attack his head down in world and yea even with every dual blade attack you hit his head
I love how he fights, I just hate EJ. If it was more like Safi with like, one place to hide, I'd be fine. Should they reward a particular play style with hunts? Absolutely, elemental damage should be allowed to do extra to this unstable boi while raw isn't as effective. I just don't think players should necessarily be forced into a playstyle since it has always been "use whatever you want, just be good enough to do it."
It's fun new mechanic IMO I mean if every monster is just hit it till it's dead than what's the point of elemental weapons? What's the point of namielle's element increase skill?
Saufan Softlan elements do damage? You’re still just hitting him until he’s dead. It’s just a chore. We already have a DPS check mechanic: the hunts have a timer. What’s the point of the timer if you couldn’t possibly reach it because there’s 4 instakill moves before the time runs out?
I feel like it's to change up the meta, because everyone would use the same weapons and not change up your strategy throughout the whole game. And this is coming from a guy who still hasn't killed Alatreon yet in World
Donkilla28 I am absolutely fine with this fight changing the meta. They could have done this in several ways though: pumped up his hp and then made him vulnerable to more elemental damage. OHK DPS check is literally the most artificial way they could have done it, and instead of feeling like it’s rewarding players for finding the best way to fight, it feels like they’re punishing people who don’t do it in one specific way.
I love how using one single damage type can be considered a "playstyle"
i love the alatreon fight, but i'm getting sick of these big attacks that just involve everyone standing around and waiting. these are supposed to be ultimate village destroying attacks and the reaction i'm supposed to have instead of trying to get out of the way is to just stand there and wait for it to happen. it just adds boring routine to an exciting hunt.
i feel like the horn mechanic is good though, letting you control what the monster can do and disabling it's power with part breaks is one of the staples of monster hunter (cut tail to shorten tail attacks, break wings to discourage flying, break arms and legs to reduce movement, head to reduce breath attacks). this just feels like another unique way of implementing that which, in this case, affects your damage capability as well as the threat the monster poses depending on your elemental resistances (at least it seems like it favors certain elemental attacks over others).
overall, the escaton judgment attack just feels like a cheap gimmick used to artificially add "difficulty" to what was supposed to be an epic fight.
it's a stain on what was supposed to be a fun fight
someone's counter build reminded me of another point. although iceborne made great strides to make elemental weapons more viable, elements on weapons are still very niche compared to just using raw.
raw benefits all weapons and is good against any monster and can naturally crit with extra damage from crit boost (crit boost itself is kind of a problem by existing)
element still only seems to benefit certain weapons and is only good against certain monsters and really only if you hit them in specific spots (like how banbaro's best elemental hitzone is a 25 on his head and that's the best you get). you also need to get a set bonus skill in order for element to crit at all and last time i checked, crit boost doesn't affect it at all. it also is impacted by sharpness more than raw so any elemental weapon with less than purple is already under-performing.
the reason i bring this up is that this fight feels like the developers have given up on trying to make elemental builds useful for everyone and just force it upon us whether we like it or not.
i wish elements were actually useful to everyone, it would give weapon choice actual meaning before a hunt, but right now, you have to work really hard to make it work in your favor. imagine if, in pokemon, tackle did more damage than water gun against a fire type pokemon.
@@LucasTigy2 if they don't want people to just use raw, then they shouldn't have made blast weapons so easy to get (flashbacks to hallblade glavenus).
@@esspooki3813 or they can just give us a reason to pick different weapons
Deviljho tempered has just more attack -ppl called artficial
Lunastra had a more complex and faster moveset, but don't hitted so hard -ppl called artificial
Behemoth had a ton of new mechanhics, all with ways to evade -ppl called artificial
Arch Nerg had a ton of hp =ppl called artificial
Alatreon hasn't a TON of hp, nor drink 90% of health with one tail swipe, nor has very fast and complex moveset, but still artificial.....
I really don't think the problems is the devs here, it's just ppl not wanting hard fights, and instead of accepting it, and dropping the quest, they just whine on everything that makes them fail more than five times.
Even safi had a more destructive and unique ultimate attack, so much for a black dragon lol
Personally, I almost always play solo. If I beat a monster for the first time in coop I feel I don't deserve the victory
Solo Alatreon is far easier than in a group though. In multiplayer, the monster has more health and teammates can die and fail the quest. It’s more of a feat to beat alatreon in a team imo.
Lol that’s my mentality for dark souls/borne. First play through no matter what is a solo run
@@cl86241
As if dealing with window lickers in PVP games wasnt hard enough.
Seriously i dont think its good to put the souls idea here :/.
Especially against things like fata and behemoth around
This is my literal mindset to
I want to love this fight, but that polarizing Escaton Judgement is a hurdle I've struggled to get past. I have tried since his release to defeat him and there was only ONE time I got close. I have a meta set, but its more geared towards 'immortality' than to high DPS/Elemental damage. Soloing this monster is tricky for me because I struggle with keeping up with the fast paced attacks sometimes and that ends up with me carting or just scrambling around trying to keep my health bar up. So I turn to the online community and I have been apart of a lot crappy teams, some ok teams, and one really great team.
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One trend I noticed yesterday and the day before were people withdrawing from the quest should anyone cart at all (even with insurance or safeguard) or within 5 seconds of Alatreon going to Dragon active and the horns not getting broken by a flinch shot. I think the people who have the friends to coordinate this hunt are going "Well the judgement isn't that bad" because they don't necessarily have to subject their hunts to the fate of 3 random people who might not be able to meet the requirements. The opposite don't get that luxury and thus are the ones voicing the mechanic is terrible.
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I think the idea of getting players out of their comfort zone is a great idea and I feel Monster Hunter should capitalize a little bit on that more often. Maybe not to the extreme that Alatreon, Kulve, and Behemoth have gone, but again none of those fights are impossible either so it doesn't matter. I do think however the Escaton Judgement should not be as black and white. I think it should be something that is 1) NOT SCRIPTED and 2) SURVIVABLE REGARDLESS. Alateron is supposed to be unstable and shifting elements considerably. I think the DPS check should be tossed out the window or significantly lowered so that it is always possible to survive the Judgement and the judgement can be more random and add to the chaotic levels of the fight.
At least on this fight, making Escaton not a punishment is just not getting player out of their comfort zone, healing anyone can do, so elemental weapoms whouldnt very important, so no changes on their builds. And believe me, Escaton is just a problem for most randoms cause Alatreons moveset is kinda hard to get, and this will literally happens with any hard quest, randoms play without thinking, and say its a games fault. Theres no way these people will keep dying to a monster, and then say their death was fairplay, the simple act of failing the Quest more than fives times will make them whine.
Tarkus has a point. If ppl can’t get passed fights within their first like 1-3 tries, usually (not alaways, but most of the time) they will deem it terrible and bad mechanics jus cause they couldn’t unga bunga their way through it with only raw and blast. Capcom gave everybody the chance to get their stuff well preped and ready and close to no one took the chance, and sorry, there’s a pandemic happening right now. You’re telling us for how long the event quests have been out and how long the quarantine has been happening, you guys couldn’t do any form of farming before hand? It’s not capcoms fault or the other players telling you to “git gud”, it’s your own damn fault for not taking advantage of the blatant long time you could have been farming. Escaton is fair and balanced, ppl jus need to learn the elemental weaknesses of the monsters (which shouldn’t be tough cause if you made it passed iceborne’s story, you should have basically all info on all monsters). Make an ice build ffs, use the beotodus tree for budget ice set ups that can still wreak and safi is out right now so you can farm his beta set. I will repeat myself, it’s not capcoms fault, it’s YOUR fault.
It’s all in fun honestly. They’re just seeing what we can do at the moment. They’re giving us Barioth next month, so those of us who couldn’t kill him now... will be able to.
I feel like they should have given us frostfang before alatreon because then we have a new monster to fight that we can also farm for ice gear for alatreon instead of farming old monsters. It just makes more sense to me
Nothing like having a nice Kjarr Ice weapon ^_^
I couldn't kill behemoth until I got end game iceborne gear. Give it a few updates. We'll be able to break alatreon no problem then.
His moveset is insanely good, makes you really think when to attack, where to move, when to heal up etc. But man his EJ just makes this annoying and artificially hard because its literally a dps check race against type of thing.
I did manage to solo it but by no means was it fun becaude of EJ making you think about it all the time and messing up with you.
*Brofists.* I had a very similar experience to you, as I love 99% of the Alatreon fight, and had the same frustration with the Escaton Judgement attack.
40% of his fight is good 10% is his dragon attacks hitboxes 10% is his projectile hitboxes and he's just flying around for 40% of the fight.
I feel like there is a key difference between encouraging a player to play a certain way, and forcing a player to play a certain way, and alatreon's DPS check feels like the latter.
you can literally solo him with a raw weapon
I'd argue forcing player isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if it happens only for few hunts.
It gives you a challenge you have to adapt to overcome.
I mean that's the charm of the arena quests afterall.
@Loyal Sapphire No offense taken, I get where you're coming from. I was extremely frustrated with him in the first couple hours as well. But the true spirit of Monster Hunter has always been learning more about a monster and building sets and strategies to help with the difficulties you're having, and ultimately, Hunt the monster. Can't pass the elemental check? Build around fortify. Can't break the horns? Build around part breaker. The "meta" sets that are flowing around the internet are impeding so many players from actually having fun with the game because they lack the versatility of armor building. People who refuse to use blast resistance on Raging Brachy because they "lose out on dps", then complain about how the blasts are so annoying. I see this as the same thing.
@@kevintseng119 I always hated that in this game the concept of "flawless victory" was scrapped completely. Unavoidable damage was already bad, and then they went the extra mile and added OHK that wipe out the party immediately...I feel old. I feel like an old man seeing the new generation and hating it, right along with me saying "back in my day we used to". This sucks. I'm gonna go play Gen U now.
@@Chaosdogg47 You can achieve a flawless victory by using elemental weapons and breaking his horns. Don't tell me as a veteran you just went through Gen U using 1 weapon, 1 set of armor and did no strategizing for your "flawless victories". By the way, "back in the days" we used to play with a wiki open on the side to learn how to deal with each monster effectively. If your goal in the game is to achieve a "flawless victory" in every hunt, then that's an even better reason to go in with an optimized set and strategy instead of the "let me play the way I want" mentality.
Personally; I feel that the Escaton Judgement gimmick single-handedly ruins an otherwise great fight, and I think the way they've done Escaton Judgement is mostly due to them trapping themselves behind the huge level of powercreep they've brought into the game with previous updates.
It's not that hard to get past Escaton tbh just don't die and do damage and you'll pass the threshold. Ik it's alot more complicated cause you need to learn the fight but it's not that hard either.
@@Nims_24 Oh, it's not hard. What makes The Escaton Gimmick bad is just how artificial the difficulty it adds is. Fail the check, take damage. Pass the check, still take damage, it's just easier to heal through it. There's very little, if any reward to actually passing the check.
Lol just heal bro don't say it sucks cause u gotta waste one astera jerky during the Escaton. Like it's just a part of the fight that is easily avoidable if u just learn the fight and bring the gear needed. Its something different and it makes people work for it instead of handed to them.
@@Nasha842 It not that that hard bro if you actually hitting the monster instead of flailing around
@@manbat4582 As I've already stated. Problem is, a mechanic not being hard doesn't stop it from being a bad mechanic or from artificially inflating the difficulty.
At first I was on the negative side of thinking concerning Alatreon as I was having so much trouble beating it in multiplayer. BUT I entered another multiplayer hunt and lost connections to the servers which forced me to fight it solo...and I beat it! I had no issue hitting the elemental damage check, my only issue was forgetting to break the horns which cost me a cart lol.
Not trying to be rude but looking back on it as I tried to join multiplayer again after beating it...I noticed many players either had poor builds (getting affected by blights and not fully upgrading armor), weren’t using an elemental weapon or sadly lacked skill. I know sometimes you have a bad hunt where you cart multiple times and fail the quest, it’s happened to me quite a few times. However a lot of people had bad positioning and seemed to not be able to properly land attacks unless Alatreon was knocked down or wall bounced. Honestly I feel like a lot of people got too comfortable with multiplayer hunts. Very few monsters have AoE attacks assuming they have one at all, but nearly all of Alatreon’s are AoE which means positioning and reading Alatreon’s movement before attacks are key for the fight.
People are to quick to blame something else instead of looking in the mirror and realizing they are doing something wrong.
Most of the time I failed killing this was because of very immediate attacks or one hit kill combos. "He get's you! You're dead" kinda of combos. Most of his attacks are very difficult on the dark souls scale, but some as the flame blast are a bit wonky for me. The flame ball to the ground had some very weird hit boxes, where I would stand juuuuust a little too close, but wouldn't feel like it connected to the explosions. The ground slam was my down fall, really crappy move where he would get me in the middle of my recovery window, I wouldn't be able to dodge it, I would be slammed in the ground, and destroyed by a following attack.
The lightining. It deals a whole lot of damage, if it was tunned to be just a little weaker, it would make the fight more fun for me.
In regards to the dps check. It was really easy.
SpiderMan45
Combos? The only thing Alatreon does that feels like a combo is his dashes with dragon energy as it’s able to do it back to back 3 times. Aside from that there isn’t really any other attack that’s a combo. The only attack it has that comes out “fast” is it’s straight line fire breath when on the ground.
Also, unless you were pinned, you don’t take damage after being knocked down. So don’t press buttons to quickly get up if Alatreon is still targeting you, as being knocked down protects you from damage. Learn the timing of Alatreon’s attacks, the vast majority of it’s moves are telegraphed and his lightning attacks are some of the easiest to avoid. The ground literally glows and gives you enough time to dodge. I would advise you to practice against Kirin and Stygian Zinogre to improve your dodges.
I died, the I ate and dropped back in. I land directly in front of Alateron and pull out my HBG to block with guard 5. He flash attacks and flies through ne hitting me before the animation of the HBG allows me to block and then drops a fireball on my head while I'm getting up. 2nd KO. I drop back in and he instantly uses Judgement. With some monsters it's bad design as much as it is bad players. This is an example of one such monster.
Eric Lindros
One time I joined a Tempered Rajang multiplayer quest and got drunk birded into Rajang’s beam and carted immediately. Does that mean Rajang is poorly designed? NO! You get unlucky sometimes.
Alatreon is not poorly designed, you had a rough hunt. If you pay attention to Alatreon’s telegraphs before it’s attacks, then you should be able to time your get ups after you get hit so you’re not hit in a combo!
OHK moves are fine as long they are "single target" or a small area.
I know they are not hit kill but take Teostra/Lunastra Novas, Teostra's nova has way lesser range than Lunastra, it gives you enough time to run and if you get hit by it, it is pretty much your own fault, then we have Lunastra giant nova range that knocks you down and can wipe your hunt.
OHK mechanics are never good on a multiplayer game that you have deaths limit to lose, maybe if this fight and ONLY on this fight you had a death limit of 6 when playing Online it would be a bit fairer, that would allow your team to fail the "elemental seal" once and not lose the hunt.
The very soul of MH is fighting monsters that feel like beasts. They got all kinds of ways to fight and its up to you to use the time and tools alotted to overcome them. Forcing players to fight and be more aggressive is cool but putting a dps check in there ruins the immersion of the game. It should have been about destroying parts of his body to reduce the damage he deals and making those parts more vulnerable to elemental damage, heck even making his different forms more weak to some elements. It would have made a more immersive battle, taking out his powers to slowly bring him down to your level like a true hunter.
@TheBuragi "a world ending calamity" is about 60% of monster hunter monsters dummy
@@joannawood7352 thats not true at all. Nothing other than top tier elder dragons get descriptions like that.
@@seethingwalnut2628 there are like 10 top tier elder dragons, one of them is even infectious
@TheBuragi alatreon is a clown, so much for a black dragon and it doesn't even have a unique super move, just a cheap OHK version of Lunastra's nova lol.
@@pracitus Being able to use all to use all five elements all at ounce is pretty black dragon too me. The closest thing we got to multiple elements was Nami using water and thunder.
I'd say the most difficult (or annoying) part of reaching the elemental threshold is that Alatreon loves to waste your time by flying. Like, I get it that's how he was in the previous games and they had to keep it but you can't have him constantly fly around like that when he has an elemental check that can 1 shot us.
If the flying was toned down by even 40% then it would make a massive difference because he actually stays in Dragon mode just long enough for you or your team to meet the check even if Alatreon takes absolutely no element damage during Fire/Ice mode.
There are two ways you can knock him down
One is a very well timed flash pod, the other is a temporal mantle into Flinch Shot.
my thoughts: as someone who started their adventure as a young child in monster hunter Tri I have a strong affinity for this specific black dragon (Ala is my fav) . I remember the very first time they released the brilliant darkness event quest online and it was such a good time and even after the fact you couldn't finish his gear until the even harder event was released called where the gods fear to tread to get his horn was just so fun to do but I felt that it might have been too easy at times. nowadays after being much older and more skilled it really feels amazing to finally have a proper challenge from a black dragon. I hope that in August when we receive our returning monster that it's another black dragon with just as much or even more difficulty than the Alatreon. *please be Fatalis Capcom pleaseeeee*
Dear god, if they release something even harder. I’ll probably just give up on this game. I already feel completely hopeless fighting this monster. I fight with all my heart and think i do phenomenal, just to get one shot anyways, i feel legitimately hopeless with this monster. I wear full safi, ice attack lvl 6, and have tried hammer, GS, Dual Blades, Bow, and have had better luck with Glaive. So I understand that it should be hard, but not to the point where like 95% of the player base cant do anything.
@@er4265
Its okay if not everyone is able to beat it man. The rest of the game is still there to play, it's not as if all the other stuff is locked behind beating him
And also im sure over 20% have beaten it already. Its only been out 3 days and your saying its impossible. Come on man, have more faith in yourself and in others
@@er4265 Hm I would suggest you go with the highest elemental dmg weapon your comfortable with and bring health boost 3 (let's you survive every single attack by alatreon) Eat for moxie bring a healing palico for the reviveand slot in fortify. You want all your armor upgraded to level 20 with augmenting. Then it's just a case of learning the fight enough. You should definitely be able to hit the threshold. A few practical tips for horn breaks in dragon mode: When he summons thunder around him he goes on his backlegs and comes down after letting you hit the head for quite a bit. When he shoots a fire ball that explodes in rings (not the hop back that explodes in lines) you can actually go inside the rings and he will hold his head there for quite a while for you to hit and lastly when you knock him down the window is gigantic because not only will he be toppled for a while he will also stay still for quite a while after when he flashes his elemental state. Obviously those are not the only windows but they are some of the biggest. Happy hunting!
@@er4265 take it slowly, when you learned, you will see it's not hard.
You must approach it methodically,
Frustration only undermining your skills.
Some advice:
As long as you don't get pin down, you won't get one shot.
All his move is very telegraphic, weapon like longsword will have easier time.
For skill: 3 elemental aliment resistant can make your fight much easier.
People use safi to fight it is part because it have higher ice resistant,
So you can ignore his longest move ice breeze and hit his head till you have full health.
But you can fight him with any armor.
Honestly, if they bring in Fatalis, that’s it, no more monsters because nothing can top that world ender. I’d rather they release a few more flag ships like Gore Magala and Valstrax, possibly even Seregios. After the god of the elements, I want to hunt some “normal” monsters before facing the literal ender of the world incarnate.
I'm not offended, I'm just pissed off. I just feel like this stuff is artificial difficulty just for the lols, specially now that I'm in no position of getting ps+ I just feel completely left out of the experience and that pisses me.
I know the fight is doable solo, it's just a pain in the ass for a Switch Axe playstyle like mine.
I'm sure lots of people will love it tho, and I'm glad they are having fun
I've managed to beat him playing SA solo 6 times, and only 2 times online. Trust me, this fight is easier solo. Most people don't know what they are doing in this fight and don't understand how it works, so it's really rare to even get past his first nova most of the time. That's to say nothing of the people who can't even dodge his normal attacks and cause the quest to fail. I've only failed the quest solo a handful of times, yet playing online, I lost track of how many quest fails happened. You ain't missing much this time.
Solo is better because:
-you only get 1 faint per escaton judgement
-alatreon health is lower
Another advantage to doing it solo is that you can take advantage of "fortify" and replenishing your items. Combined with health cat, moxie, insurance and/or feline safeguard; you basically have 7-8 lives if you eat for moxie again after death.
I guy from reddit said he had a hard time with axe only swaxe
ua-cam.com/video/aGhCm6xxwOg/v-deo.html
I tried it and I got the first elemental topple in 3-4 mins
Finished the hunt in 16:22 solo
Its totally doable, just need to understand his moveset and what to punish. I suggest watching some swaxe runs online and try to understand their thought process and utilize their punishes to certain attacks. It takes practice but you'll get it
Switch axe is mad easy maybe try using the axe mode a little more if you're having trouble with mobility. Power prolonger is also helpful
The thing that bugged me the most is that due to his attack patterns it is damn near impossible to even get a flare off in the first place, or without carting once.
I have a found much better lock with joining online sessions that are specifically targeting him.
It took me days to finally beat this monster, a ton of preparation before and after he was released, and constant trial and error to figure out his move set, and when to take advantage of it. At no point did I feel like it wasn’t fair. As has been mentioned multiple times, the hit boxes on his attacks are for the most part, some of the fairest in the series. Many attacks leave him wide open for multiple seconds. I had no prior experience with elemental weapons before alatreon, being a greatsword main and all. People complain that base world was too easy, and when they begin adding more challenging monsters people complain about it being too hard. After upgrading a safi longsword for 2 element up V, and getting level 6 ice attack from decorations, I was able to beat him relatively easily completely solo. I am not a speed hunter, nor am I exceptional at the game. It took me over 25 minutes to kill him, in fact. People just need to put in a modicum of effort, which they are not willing to do because hurr hurr hammer go bonk. I thought he was incredible, because he felt like a raid boss to me. The elemental damage threshold is so unbelievably easy to reach with even a descent elemental build, as is the horn break. Both of these “win conditions” are reachable within a few minutes of them becoming available with enough preparation. The preparation is the hardest part. Getting the build, learning his moves, forming a strategy. After that, the fight is basically like clockwork.
THANK YOU it felt like everyone was against me, but all of those negatives are too much. its counter intuitive to MH's very core of variety and hunting with others. if they wanted to encourage the use of element, they could have done a much better job that didnt have all these down sides. also, I dont like how I have to power throughbit with healing with no way of avoiding it. its not like I cant do it, but MH has always encouraged damage evasion, not damage tanking, and it provided the tools to complete a hunt without ever getting hit a single time, but Alatreon just says no and forces you to power through. not very MH. it also isnt a very well explained mechanic, I fought it a few times with no prior knowledge and I only learned about the dps check after asking online.
Personally, I like that facetanking is somehow actually viable now, lmao.
Felis Impurrator and that's fair enough. I certainly see the appeal, I just wish there was even a single way to avoid it, kind of like Behemoth where you can get behind a comet or do the jump
For me the biggest problem was: You can only break the horn twice!
So with my ice bow the DPS-Check was fairly easy. But the hunt took too long.
After both horns are broken IT WILL switch to ice element and one hits you.
So I dealed with it with dragon element. Making the horns optional in the first place.
i have to agree with this one, and the wallbang areas are terribly small and hard to get if you dont know exactly what corner its valid
I honestly won't mind if breaking both horns would disable it's Fire Active and Ice Active, which disables the Escaton Judgement, because save for that one-shot (which almost nobody likes), locking Alatreon to Dragon Active doesn't disable anything from it, it still has access to all it's fire and ice attacks, and thus, Dragon Active is the least repetitive mode.
If I may ask, what does the Japanese community think of the fight?
I heard that the japanese playerbase loves the fight on a pretty general level, unlike a good part of the western community.
Well, it's only western community that this actually became a real controversy. At least in Korean community, some complaints but no such drama.
@@Ringoo4 I was seriously shocked by the level of rage, some people were talking like legit schizos holy shit.
How the fuck did this playerbase even managed to do Behemoth?
@@frazer_1997 this
People praised behemoth for its fresh mechanic, and now people are mad for a similar mechanic
@@frazer_1997 With good ol sticky and carried by friends. Leshen was for me fun to, he got many complains to and even he got a OHK move near the end of his hunt
@@valky_uniguri Agreed! :D
You know guys, Capcom actually adjusted the elemental damage modifiers for every single weapon type to make sure they were relatively on even ground. For example, elemental kings like Dual Blades and LBG have modifiers that lower their output while slow raw kings like Greatsword and Gunlance have modifiers that increase their elemental output.
That only works for solo scaling. It's still a pain to hit the cap in multiplayer because of how much damage needs to be done comparatively.
i can clear the Alatreon in ~12 minutes with a Hydros Arcana and True Dragonvein Awakening. it's highly doable, especially solo.
What do you mean by this? Are you saying for Alatreon battle ele dmg modifiers are specifically tweaked to suit player's weapon? I'm sorry but this sounds too good to be true. You have a proof for this?
@@fz_dracohart1255 Yep, right here www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/comments/hpjzsi/for_people_saying_slower_weapons_got_screwed_over/?
@@AirahsELL
No it does not. The reason why sos is bad is because the players don't do their part
Its actually harder to hit the cap solo (numerically), if anything it gets easier in multiplayer
Great vid-thanks! My thoughts on this are usually experienced higher-rank players have better armor, weapons, and decos and SHOULD produce more damage required to survive the judgement, and ultimately the quest. What I frown on is the elitism this has, especially in MP.
SOS is the fastest way to lose
I went to SOS the first day, but the next I searched SOS which had good elemental weapons like kjarr ice etc
If it’s special assignment, it’s true
But if it’s event, where people already killed it at least once, people usually died to alatreon’s move
@@_snake__4117 took me like 15 attempts to beat the special because i have no friends playing mhw lmao
Having had time to get over the salt and really look at things with calmer eyes, I think the elemental DPS check is a symptom of a larger malaise - that being, the way elemental damage is balanced between weapons.
I still don't care for DPS checks in MH, but the tangible "unfairness" here is that this one is *elemental*. It means that weapons like GS/LS/GL/Lance/Hammer have a much harder time reaching the cap than, say, Bow/DB/CB/LBG, which can reach it easily. This results in players pigeonholing themselves far more narrowly than I think the devs probably intended.
Also, the elemental HZVs. They're pretty bad. In a fight where element is mandatory. Go figure...
Hopefully Capcom's takeaway from this will be that elemental damage needs to be better balanced, indicated, and explained than it currently is.
No, every weapon you mentioned is not hard to meet the check.
I play all close weapon type, as long as you don't try to use sticky or shelling only to beat him.
Chose any weapon with a good elemental number on it is enough.
They just find out there is a elemental multiplyer, give weapon like GS better element in this fight.
Befoy I know this I actually used most weapon to fight it.
With DB I can carry a 4 man's team with 3 other using raw.
With GS I can solo, but need 1 more elemental teammates if it's 4 man's team.
People are actually complaining that the game is helping too much and also the fact that it endlessly repeats how to fight the monster is annoying. The fight is simply do elemental damage fast, heal when damaged, that's all.
@@coolorochi First you tell me "every weapon you mentioned is not hard to reach the check", then you provide an example of how much more effective DB is than GS. That's proving my point.
Yes, any weapon *can* reach it. But like I said, some weapons have a significantly easier time doing so than others.
@@valkyrion_ex1173 The game has taken this into consideration. Ala's threshold is different for weapons. So for GS, you only need to deal about 680 elemental damage and for CB, where it can dish out hundreds of elemental damage per hit, needs 6800 elemental damage. Even though this mechanic isn't perfect, it mostly just comes down to the weapon's matchup. GS and GL will always be having a hard time reaching the threshold due to their clunkiness.
Apparently the elemental thresholds have been mined and posted in reddit: www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/comments/hpjzsi/for_people_saying_slower_weapons_got_screwed_over/?MonsterHunterMeta&
Different weapons have different modifiers, slower weapons like GS and Hammer actually have rather rather high modifiers thus low threshold requirements, if you build for it it's actually not difficult to get through the thresholds at all.
Honestly i do enjoy the fight, granted there was baby rage in the begining as i learned mechanics but with more experience i enjoyed it. I have not beat this monster in a group yet and considering going hunting horn to help people with ele damage.
I guess my only conplaint, is i wish a hunter had more options to protect thrmselves against boom, in previous titles you could sacrifice damage for survivability (constitution and superman dive being good example) so sa y having an elemental res threshold where you could barely survive or having to use a mantle to help protect etc. It would allow the meta/up dps builds stay as thst, but allow other hunters to approach differently, hell in multiplayer if there was a setup to help survive the blast, even if it meant reducing damage (trading a mantle or geming in different skills) i think it would be more enjoyable
Amazing fight and fair mechanic. I struggled for two nights playing the quest over and over and switching between 4 different weapons. I failed. I learned. On the 3rd night I soloed it, then I beat the event quest with a pick up group (what you can randoms) and we kicked his ass, and then I did it in a duo with a friend. This fight is what Monster Hunter is about. Learning and adapting to overcome. I can't wait to see more of this.
I think it's stupid and gimicky. I'd prefer it to be more like Bloodbath where you don't need to have earplugs to complete the quests but still have them be useful.
Is Bloodbath an auto cart if you don't have earplugs?
@@victorsandeen2694 The fight is centered aroung Styles & Arts, so Earplug isn't really mandatory.
@@victorsandeen2694 Basically you can dodge everything it throws at you, but you have to be very good to do it without any defensive skills, arts, or style specific moves.
I haven't really hunted it at all, but wouldn't an elemental dps check completely invalidate great sword?
I’ve used gs against alatreon a few times successfully now, just need to focus on wounding it for the extremely high hits
@@ValValSG Alrighty, thanks for the reply
GS has a massive modifier for reaching the threshold so no. Just grab the correct element and play normally. Gunlance and HBG got cucked though.
Bro just use another weapon cuz greatsword was not cutting it for me. Get it. Gave me a reason to get back into charge blade tho so thats cool.
By big problem is that OHKO moves were introduced because of hunters being ableing to effectively heal infinitely.
That isn't something you can do in the alatreon fight since the only way to get back to camp is to cart meaning escaton judgment could do 95% of your health and be just as effective without the demoralisation caused by its current status.
For me, he's only hard at first, because of lacks of information. Once i know i need to bring good ice/fire element weapons, break the horns, supress his escaton judgement, his fight is enjoyable. Now i almost never cart fighting him.
I'm still kinda neutral towards the DPS check mechanics.
In my opinion, the DPS check makes the fight more tense, which can put a lot of pressure on you when fighting him, but I find it fun, in addition to the rest of the fight. But to each their own.
@TheBuragi Couldn't have said it better myself.
If you're having trouble use insect glaive with the opposite element of alatrion and only use the kinsect to attack. Hitting the horns in dragon for is a lot easier with the bug and has a pretty decent amount of elemental damage to reach the cap.
I absolutely ADORE this version of Alatreon. In my opinion, seeing as this is an endgame black dragon, the difficulty fits. In all the groups I’ve run since beating the special event quest, the Ele damage threshold has become one of the easiest parts to deal with, leaving an arena fight with an incredible monster with great hit zone values, sound design, attack queues, and especially hit boxes holy crap. Also, for those complaining about randoms from SOS flares ruining your hunts, please consider joining an Alatreon specific lobby. You’ll find some great hunters there
This exactly. The elemental damage check is a non-issue. People die like flies cus they overcommit to their combos and get stomped by its normal attacks.
Leave that dps check out of monhun pls
Alatreon in Iceborne is absolute my favorite fight in the franchise. His attacks are fair, he keeps you on your toes and you have to keep up that offensive front, and he's just a great challenge that feels great to beat!
However, that DPS nova check is absolutely what shatters my love for the fight. You have to be hitting it constantly and if you're not, then that's just hit. Doesn't help that if you're on a team of four, then his health is inflated even more so now you'll be seeing more novas
It ruins an otherwise perfect hunt and it really just disappoints the hell out of me.
This is actually one of my favorite hunts, my only real critique is that it sort of exludes half of the weapons(raw damage weapons like hammer).
It has hidden multipliers for element threshold, specific to Alatreon. Hammer does fine. Even lance can hit the threshold fairly comfortably despite its godsawful internal element multiplier.
@@FelisImpurrator but if you compare the multiplier of an elemental weapon (which is about 0.6 to 0.8) and that of an greatsword (1.1), greatsword still does too little elemental damage compared to the elemental weapons like LBG or DB.
Even a greatsword like the Kjarr Decay with max elemental damage, a perefct elemental set and the 1.1 multiplier, the damage done would still be 95-98% raw and the rest elemental damage.
I think it's completly fine that there are endgame quest that are just to hard for some people. It's an endgame challenge and only proficient hunters should be able to beat it. MHWIB really needed a difficult endgame challenge like MHGU's super devients and alatreon at least goes in that direction.
Super deviants never 1shot you for failing to meet an arbitrary damage threshold. You could fight Bloodbath Diablos naked if you wanted.
I agree with this. I love that I still get a good challenge out of this game after over a thousand hours of play. But such super end game content always comes at the price of alienating newer players.
@@AirahsELL Extreme Bloodbath can and will one-shot you after a roar pretty often if you don't dodge it. Imho that's a lot worse than Escaton Judgement
@@DeusIzanagi ex bloodbath roar can Counter with HG earplug,Brave Evade, and Adept. Alatreon If you Fail the elememtal DPS check, Get rect by Alatreon
@@Zacharie27 you know bringing a health booster is a really good countet yo escaton judgment.
You summarized my thoughts exactly. After clearing the assignment, I still have mixed feelings, but learning more on the positive site. Another nitpick I want to add is that Ala's mechanics prevent you from active slowing the fight to break monster parts for extra loot. In got very unlucky and didn't get any tails or wings so I can't craft anything of the armor, nor upgrade the two weapons I crafted already
I agree with everything You said, this is prob the first video I've seen that touches on everything, Great job here Sir! I feel the same way. After 23 Alatreon kills I'm still missing some of those cool weapons. Gotta keep farming him.
I haven't even made it past the 1st Judgement yet.
Requires a bit of IQ to bypass
You need to deal enough elemental damage to weaken him. In the special assingment quest Alatreon always starts as fire active so using water or Ice element is recommended, dragon works well too. When you manage to deal enough damage the Handler will let you know. Eventually Alatreon shifts to the dragon active that's when you need to break its horns so it will be forced back to the fire active. If you manage to do that the Escaton Judgement will barely tickle. Use Astera Jerky or max potions to heal through it.
Good luck and Git gud.
@@devilbananalol2800 then this video will help you ua-cam.com/video/dQw4w9WgXcQ/v-deo.html
@@devilbananalol2800 You must have had good teamates to carry your lame ass
@@yiangaruga4928 I agree with you. But that was kinda rude to tell them to Git Gud.
I think Monster Hunter needed a hunt like Alatreon to make the playerbase go out of comfort zone and learn new ways or playing for the following reasons:
- This fight makes people know that they can't get carried, because on multiplayer they need to do a good deal of elemental and horn damage as well, so unless the rest of the group is just too good, you need to carry your own burden.
- This fight teaches hunters how to actually dodge attacks, focus on specific parts of the monsters (safi makes you focus on tenderized parts, but those can vary during the hunt), focus on a specific set of weapons and gear (elemental).
- Teaches how elemental damage can vary from monster to monster, can vary on the same monster in different states, and can vary on different parts of the same monster.
This is the reason I think this fight is necessary for the community to go a step further as hunters and as community (also like Gaijin said, the monster is fair, well telegraphed and YES, YOU DON'T NEED GOOD DECOS OR META SETS TO BEAT IT). BUT the implementation wasn't perfect IMO and that's because:
- The game doesn't tell you how elemental works. No Monster Hunter ever had such thing, and while this game at least gives you the info of the damage you deal to a monster, in order to know that your 600 ice GS is far worse then a 600 ice SNS, you need to go for external resources. Meta builds and things like that don't need to be said ingame, but such a basic mechanic should.
- This fight difficulty doesn't follow the other fights ingame. The closest dps check to that we had before was KT, but she didn't need specific sets to be built around, and didn't have limitations about the weapons that could be used. Maybe if Barioth was released before and he had an elemental dps check as well (but a little lower then Ala) that could be a good roadmap, and would prepare the hunters for Alatreon better. They could implement the mechanics of breaking barioth wings/tusks would not let him to do a specific attack, teaching hunters that breaks could be almost mandatory to make a hunt easier (in this game, cutting Rathian tail dones't negate the poison from her for example, so breaks doesn't mean a change for the hunt itself for the average hunter).
- OHKO mechanics are just mean. Such mechanic makes multiplayer not viable since all carts are burned at once if you have one hunter that doesn't contribute much for the dps check. I like mechanics like MH4U where you had a dps check witha a buff to try to make the monster go out of a frenzied state and if you fail the hunt just becomes very difficult and you need to deal with that until your buff gets off cooldown, but it DOESN'T cart you immediatly. This OHKO mechanic makes you want to solo the monster, and kills the commnity aspect of the hunt (BUT I would like to have a monster that CAN'T' be done on multiplayer. Such monster would be a good thing to teach specific mechanics to hunters as well).
-
They really be passing out Novas like candy in this game...
There’s literally only 2
@@naromaster9796 uuuhm... Namielle, Teostra, Shara Ishvalda, Lunastra, Safi'Jiva, Kulve Taroth, Alatreon, raging Brachydios and fucking blazing Bazelgeuse, a random flying wyvern of all.
@@LeoAndela dont forget deviljho
@@LeoAndela but no one describes those as novas, the only thing people talk about when speaking of novas are teostra and lunastra nova, and Alatreon's is closest to lunastra's
Ok i have a question here.. you compared alatreon to lunastras nova... does that mean i can just block it? Or nah?
This fight is frustrating, after 2 days of trying to brute force my way through, because I play with poison or blast sets, I gave in. Crafted new weapons, armor and learned dual blades. (Safijiva armor works really well on this fight). After a few more attempts I finally beat him. The reward of my hard work was clear and the feeling of that was AMAZING. This is why play this game, for the thrill of the hunt. Beating something that took time and effort on each attempt. Love this monster, and the weapons/armor look fantastic.
Amen to that, heck my main weapon is a safi blast hammer with 3/5 Safi gear. I'm not that fond of us ele weapons but I just went in and upgraded on the Kjarr Ice Long Swords and wham! Died and abbandoned the quest multiple times till I finally understood how to play it out. Landing that final killing blow felt so damn good I even screamed of how excited I was!
I was pretty pissed at first. Took me 60-70 tries to kill it. But now...I have every single one of his moves down. I can attack him relentlessly and own him. If you really want to be great at the game and put Alatreon down you have to put in the work! Keep learning, keep watching, pay attention, and figure out a good build! This is the hardest monster they’ve ever put out but after 3 days and 1 entire day of attempting to best him he’s no longer a challenge. You cannot just try him 1-5 times a day and expect a change. Even if you’re team/randoms are bad it’s not a lost cause to continually try. You’re always going to pick up on something and get better. KEEP TRYING. It took me almost 100 TRIES. If you want it bad enough you will keep going. If you simply want an easier monster you will complain. I held my breath and I’m so glad it’s not nerfed yet.
EDIT: Once you complete it and go to the event quest it’s literally 90% easier because everyone knows what they’re doing and you start at camp. And for the love of god randos...PLEASE use ice attack 6 or dragon attack 6! You are completely wasting your time and your teammates time if you are not. Idc what your build is, this is about relentless elemental damage and staying alive. Nothing else.
After an hour or two of practice, I’m able to pretty much solo it with a 100% clear rate, even being able to break both horns. Practicing this fight is very very important, and as long as you have some endgame elemental weapons, you’ll be able to clear the quest
What element and what’s the amount? I’ve had the best luck with safi stuff built for max element and then silver sol for element crit. I’ve only been able to hit the stagger twice. I’m trying to figure out what I need for numbers
Saijou Candari that’s the thing though, the horns are still super easy for me to break. I’ll break the, but not hit the cap. I’ve tried dual blades, sword and shield, and element phial switch axe and just spammed element discharge. I even put in maximum might on the sns so I don’t have to waste time weakening the legs and I can just go to town on them. What’s prob getting me is that this is an armor set that isn’t maxed out since I just made it, and my defense is to low so I prob can’t play as offensively as I need to.
@Saijou Candari As a HH player I have zero problems breaking the horns, but I can't ever reach the damage threshold despite using a fully upgraded ice safi HH (4 element upgrades, one song upgrade)
@@samhagar983 Kjarr Stream or King of any weapon + Safi x 5 is easy way to steam-roll Ala. You almost guarantee first elemental flinch, even second or third.
Great. You're better than most players. Want a fucking cookie?
You saying that the judgement is 1% of the entire fight is very unaccurate. The very reason you fight this boss the way you do is because of the judgement.
I think the main issue with alatreon is that unavoidable "if you didn't do enough you lose" attack. Sure black dragon but gameplaywise it feels like you have yo hit him a lot and cross fingers you get the weak judgement.
Also the horns thingy bother me a lot. It used to be a reward for those who managed to hit it's head, not it has become almost mandatory.
This monster looks fair, but it's not. The hunt is very fun and challenging but having a dps wall that if you fail you have to start over while the monster has tools to make you fail that dps check isn't very fair. For example it's ability to combo you to death with fast attacks adds more frustation to the fight, even if they are telegraphed, the fact they come out quickly makes it so if you get hit once you can easily get hit again, and have 2 blights on you at least.
Git gud
You dont have to cross fingers, if you didnt knock him over then you know you didnt do enough damage
Git gud part 2
if they really wanted to have a dps check, it shouldn’t be a OHKO. i think it wouldve been much more fair if it was an attack that inflicted you with multiple elemental blights that you can’t use nulberries/blight resistance on. that would actually make alatreon feel more like he’s controlling all the elements and not just another standard elder dragon.
BNZ! I might sounds like an elitist but mhw is easy enough already, dps check is good since alatreon is a fucking black dragon a monster far beyond the level of elder dragons and most importantly it’s actually force player to think and prepare for the hunt instead of going big sword swish swosh all the time.
Personally new Alatreon fight reminds me of my experiences soloing during old gen end game fights.
Having to specialise your setup for a specific target, not being able to change it through out the hunt. Its just you vs the beast.
After countless failed attempts you finally learn to properly dodge the barrage of attacks while staying on the offensive and landing your own.
Eventually it becomes a song and dance between two forces and the struggle to keep dps up before timer runs out. One wrong move and it could mean an instant wipe.
This intensive pressure to perform perfectly isn't everyone's cup of tea but I would be lying if I didn't say the reward of coming out triumphant in the end is like nothing else.
Did you scream after landing the final blow in the special assignment going solo? I know I did ^_^
@@gishathosaurus6828 you betcha I did, using the swag axe and spouting G gundam quotes the whole hunt.
What you wrote is what perfectly fits the fight for me with the insane amount of pressure and perfect performance you need in order to hit the dps check, It created an amazingly fun experience for me at least because It felt like it actually required me to focus and it made Aletreon one of the most fun hunts I’ve ever had
@@Vintmo it reminds me of 3u's g1 urgent. The double brachy. I had to do it solo and I mained gunlance so it was misery. Bach in 3u slime blight took away your ability to guard so I had to sheathe and deodorant myself or roll before I get nuked. He also was way more spammy and his punches at times where far faster and agressive than later games imop. And that darn tail was more of a pain in the but too. Block the punch, get bopped by the tail and be on your but with a decent amount of life gone.
Well said bro it's what I did too. Most of the people complaining about the fight just don't bother learning the dodge timings or counters.
Played on solo. I haven't killed him yet since I was playing safe. However, I was still able to get to the elem threshold and broke a horn before dying due to not being able to dodge his obvious attacks.
Best iteration of Aletreon since I first went up against him on MH3
Fuck me, I have PTSD from MH3U since it was kicking my ass in high rank while I could kill G-rank Savage Jhos with my eyes closed! Felt great to kill him good solo, took me several hours to finally get it but landing that last blow felt amazing. Just keep on going, even if ya going slow or an escaton a time just learn and perfect the hunt.
I went with an 600 Ice LS and kicked his ass, breaking the two horns but ended up dying once on the third escaton since you can't prevent him to go to ice mode after both horns are broken. Felyine insurance kicked in + fortity and I just slaugthered him once he reverted back to fire form
The event quest is actually really easy in SOS because people who unlocked it know what's up
They also aren't on their backfoot and possibly dieing trying to get the SOS flare off because they spawned 3 feet in front of a monster that might open up with a fireball immediately out of the loading screen. They start in the camp, and can prepare and wait for people.
Or they had a good team to carry them 🙍