10 Signs of Communal Narcissism
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- Опубліковано 10 тра 2024
- This video answers the questions: What is a communal narcissist? Do communal narcissists truly have concern for other people?
Narcissistic personality disorder is a Cluster B personality disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual. It has nine symptom criteria, five of which are required for a diagnosis.
1: Grandiose sense of self-importance
2: Fantasies
3: Special or unique
4: Requires excessive admiration
5: Sense of entitlement
6: Manipulative
7: Lacks empathy for others
8: Often envious
9: Arrogant attitudes or behaviors
Narcissism:
There are two types of narcissism: With grandiose narcissism we see characteristics like being extroverted, socially bold, self-confident, having a superficial charm, being resistant to criticism, and being callous and unemotional. Vulnerable narcissism is characterized by shame, anger, aggression, hypersensitivity, a tendency to be introverted, defensive, avoidant, anxious, depressed, socially awkward, and shy.
Gebauer, J. E., Sedikides, C., Verplanken, B., & Maio, G. R. (2012). Communal narcissism. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 103(5), 854-878. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Luo, Y. L. L., Cai, H., Sedikides, C., & Song, H. (2014). Distinguishing communal narcissism from agentic narcissism: A behavior genetics analysis on the agency-communion model of narcissism. Journal of Research in Personality, 49, 52-58. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Giacomin, M., & Jordan, C. H. (2015). Validating power makes communal narcissists less communal. Self and Identity, 14(5), 583-601. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
White, D., Szabo, M., & Tiliopoulos, N. (2018). Exploring the relationship between narcissism and extreme altruism. The American Journal of Psychology, 131(1), 65-80. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Jonason, P. K. 1. p. jonason@westernsydney. edu. a., & Fletcher, S. A. . (2018). Agentic and communal behavioral biases in the Dark Triad traits. Personality & Individual Differences, 130, 76-82. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Rogoza, R., & Fatfouta, R. (2019). Normal and pathological communal narcissism in relation to personality traits and values. Personality and Individual Differences, 140, 76-81. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Rentzsch, K., & Gebauer, J. E. (2019). On the popularity of agentic and communal narcissists: The tit-for-tat hypothesis. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 45(9), 1365-1377. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Kwiatkowska, M. M., Jułkowski, T., Rogoza, R., Żemojtel-Piotrowska, M., & Fatfouta, R. (2019). Narcissism and trust: Differential impact of agentic, antagonistic, and communal narcissism. Personality and Individual Differences, 137, 139-143. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Fatfouta, R., & Schröder-Abé, M. (2018). A wolf in sheep’s clothing? Communal narcissism and positive implicit self-views in the communal domain. Journal of Research in Personality, 76, 17-21. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Żemojtel, P. M. A., Piotrowski, J. P., & Maltby, J. (2017). Agentic and communal narcissism and satisfaction with life: The mediating role of psychological entitlement and self‐esteem. International Journal of Psychology, 52(5), 420-424. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
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I think this is the most sinister type of narcissist because the usual "tells" aren't there. Most narcissists will be arrogant and rude to anyone serving them, but a communal narcissist will try to impress you with how kind they are. And while most narcissists brag about things they haven't actually done, the communal narcissist has an impressive list of charitable works to boost their status in the community. Their partner is usually in the shadow of the narcissist, suffering horrific abuse in private, but their abuser is so respected in the community, they have nowhere to turn.
I experience this type of narcissist. Trophy wife, trophy family. Treasurer of the local junior cricket club. Runner of the senate. Always talking about manners, and others being impolite / on ice / a drain on the economy. The secret is to look at how they separate themselves from other human beings. The ego cannot be of the One Mind and is terrified that when we realise the Truth and identify it, it will be annihilated. The ego is just a thought system, but the narcissist is totally consumed by it in an attempt to outrun vulnerability.
Both suck because they gaf too much
Yes!!!
@@kidsmoked Fascinating, smoked, fascinating.
Yes. My stepmother was an employee at a battered woman’s shelter. She was a raging emotional abuser at home.
Yes. And the moment you actually need empathy during a moment of crisis, they slither away.
That's not true. They can use it as a moment to show how amazing they are. These types are confusing.
"If only *I* were a dictator, I would end all strife, hunger, and societal problems in the nation I would rule over."
I sometimes think about myself as a leader (you know, daydreaming) and I am pretty sure I'd end up a dictator lmao
@@justwannafreefx9419 Your rare honesty says that, while true (I believe that power corrupts absolutely), you'd probably hold out longer than most!
@Kasia Well, even if 'holding out' is only for the milliseconds just before he is threatened. You can actually see this in real time if pay close attention: people coming into U.S. politics as confident (but 'naive') young idealists who almost *immediately* turn and pickup the same script the rest of them use. Sanders was the one who held out the longest.
@@justwannafreefx9419 I'd end up a low functioning panic case asking everyone around me for help
@@BeckBeckGo Or this, yeah hehe
Hundreds of nice people are now questioning whether they are genuinely nice.
it feels good when we do something nice .. so it is selfish but a positive kind where all concerned are uplifted =)
They've been lobotomized by the narc.
Not if you're humble in the first place.
@Diogenes TheDog best answer 👍
Yep, if you're helping someone you can't expect them to be grateful or you then become the victim.
A phrase I’ve heard a lot lately: “As an EMPATH, people need to understand that all the pain and suffering in the world actually hurts ME most of all.” Like vulnerable narcissism trying to be communal?
Sue Ristovska Agreed. Wonderful things like empathy and social justice can really get twisted. My biggest pet peeve is when someone says they’re “triggered” by some random annoyance. I say “triggered” is for veterans with PTSD.
@@alienlizardqueen8748 PTSD also affects those who've been through sexual and physical abuse like women survivors of sexual assaults - c.f.. Dr. Judith Herman regarding PTSD or C-PTSD affecting sexual abuse victims. So, PTSD isn't only confined to combat victims. I know what you mean, though. Too many people use the term "triggered" when they don't genuinely have PTSD or C-PTSD and it has, as a result, become annoyingly overused term that diminishes the true experiences of those with C-PTSD or PTSD being genuinely triggered.
Kybele Kordax Yes, absolutely. Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
OMG YES I’ve been trying to find the reason why this phrase bothers me so much and that’s it!!
It’s very reminiscent of “but how do you think YOUR emotions make ME feel, hmm?” Which is very much narcissism 101.
I have always been a hyper-sensitive person, (i know I’m cringing at myself but it’s a problem lol) so this is something I’ve been constantly reminding myself when I consider complaining about my feelings. If something happens to someone else and the first thing you’re worried about is your feelings, you are part of the problem.
Yeah self proclaimed empaths are such a huge red flag for me because my narc father goes on and on about how empathic he is (to the point you'd think he has literal magical fucking powers)
Anytime someone mentions how much of an empath they are I am on HIGH ALERT
I think my mum was a communal narcissist. Everything you’ve described here fits, and I have always described her as a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I think she truly believed she was a Good Samaritan, but from what I saw it was all part of a carefully crafted image that once we were behind closed doors, the facade dropped. I love your videos ❤️
My mom gets mad if her self help advice doesnt immediately solve my problem, even if that problem was schizophrenia. Acted like I just wasnt trying hard enough. Imagine telling your 12 yr old to take a moral inventory and that shes spiritually sick if it doesnt work
Yea man this is fucked. I’m now fully realizing (for the second time) how shitty my dads behavior is too. He even had me convinced for a while I was wrong and he was just a friendly helping man 🙄
@@kamilareeder1493 Facts wth is their problem why the fuck do they have themselves so convinced that their saints and a hero to be respected, imo they’re not sick they’re stuck with a life sentence of shitty abusive behavior
Me too. When it's communal narcissism we Witness in a parent; the stories are way to much to ever recount here. She drove out neighbours. Aweful suffering Especially for any if her kids who spoke up (like me, my ex_ Golden child brother & older sister). The only one who got any kind of quotes from her was my silent younger sister....now a Covert narcissist sadly
It sounds to me like there are more than a few communal narcissists in the clergy. Thanks, Dr. Grande, this was very educational!
GingerJeanie Yup! Mostly, actually.
Clergy, yes, but also in church volunteers, lay leaders, and lower-level staff. Churches seem to have to deal with more personality disorders than the average mental health clinic.
Either in the clergy or they love being part of it. Not for any aspects of spirituality, of course. More about power, position and validation.
There is such a wide variety of clergy now. I know one who should own Match.com He can’t stop himself. It’s like a special type of OCD.
@Inge Fossen That's exactly what a narcissist would say.
Word of the day: agentic.
Amanda I haven’t heard that term at all before.
@@true2theoryapriori497 Same, I was lost in the video until I looked it up.
I had to look up that word too.
We have been living in an extremely narcissistic age and are watching the implosion by self.
Because the self has been artificially constructed for more than a century now; eroded into submission.
Inge Fossen “explained, not understood”? Can you explain this more for me, because I have not understood.
It's always been around, we just have more sophisticated understanding and terms to use now other than "selfish fake asshole."
I think social media has made more communal narcissists than anything.
Wolf with limited apparel options 😂😂😂
Funny stuff Dr.
"I don't know because wolves don't wear clothes." :D
That was a great line....delivered in classic deadpan by Dr. Grande.
that made me laugh!
So good
There was this guy on tv in my country that I just couldn't stand. He slept outside with homeless people and lived with drug addicts and helped them and stuff, while vlogging and making a tv-show about it. Everyone loved this guy. But it was clear to me that it was really about him. When something bad happened to others he was sure to film his own face to show his own compassion. He loved the attention he got. Soon enough he was showing up on tv interviews talking about himself.
You can generally see if what someone does is about themselves or the other. If you can kind of extract the message of what someone is saying it might become clear. The point of his whole stunt was to show himself among the homeless, not the homeless themselves. It was all about himself and continues to be, and you can see it in how much attention they direct to themselves and how self-satisfied they seem when getting praise.
My neighbor is one of these. We had become good friends and it took me 12 years to learn the truth about her. It clearly explained all the verbal abuse I would sometimes endure. I was often confused as well; how can someone so giving and kind be treating me this way? I’m so glad our friendship is over and I finally have freedom again.
I had a neighbor like this as well our friendship only lasted a year and a half.
She was the biggest phony I'd ever had the displeasure of meeting. I too am glad it's over. She has since moved out of the neighborhood.
@@kynathomas4809 you’re so lucky! Unfortunately, my neighbor hasn’t moved nor will she ever move. She owns two homes on the street - the one she lives in and the other one she rents out. She’s in her mid-60s now and will never move; both homes are paid for (the rental home was her mom’s, and when her mom died she inherited it as she’s an only child). Not until she leaves horizontally.
@@kaymuldoon3575 Treat the situation like she doesn't exist. I'm sorry you have to endure such a person but literally act as though she isn't even on the planet. Narcissists hate being ignored!
Me too. Unfortunately my neighbour still lives over the road, but I shunned her after 2 yrs of her BS.
Oh, doctor...😦 That's how I would summ up my experiences in the field of mental health, in psychology and in social work. People who want to help others and don't know that they actually are trying to make themselves great through this. I have to process this. 🐰 Thank you very much for covering this topic.
Mrs. Reluctant I agree with you Esther. There are quite a few people out there who perfectly fits this description. It’s very painful to deal with them and worst yet, most people don’t see through the disguise. 😕
New picture of you Esther 😉?
pocoeagle2 I know right? That’s a beautiful picture Esther! 👌🏼
@@rejaneoliveira5019 I just read your comment, and then... 😊 You're right, self-deception is at the core of it. It's an indirect, dangerous and disturbing form of deception and hard to overcome. Sometimes the self-deception of one person can fit perfectly to the self-decepion of another, it's an interlock between them. Thank you for your comment. 🙂
@@pocoeagle2 I thought in time of crisis I should take one with a smile.
'A wolf with limited apparel options' - hysterical Dr Grande.
Dr. Grande's got a wonderfully intelligent wit and in the most serious of subject matters he'll make quips like that which have me chuckling, too.
Yeah that was a good one 😄
Sounds like dr. Phil. I’m the most non judgmental person I know.
😂👏🏻
Duuude...
Oh and everytime he Point to his name on the wall!
Lmao
Don’t get me started on McGraw. I used to work for him back in the 90s and he was a terror then, too.
@@kaymuldoon3575 really interesting! Would love to hear about your experience.
Extraordinary video! This was just fascinating.
I have had experience with communal narcissism and that can be expressed in one word- confusion. Of course it was quite painful but very difficult to identify and even explain to other people what was so troubling about that individual. The last point you made in regards to self deception is key, that’s exactly what it it, a self deceptive behavior.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! This video validates the feelings of an experience that took me years to make sense of it. Words are unable to express my gratitude Dr. Grande, you have helped me understand so much about life, relationships and behaviors.
Rejane Dr. Grande did on December 8th 2018 a great video about the question; "What is the core of the narcissist"? His conclusion is about the same as yours. It's self deception!
Go to the search on UA-cam and type " core of narcissist Dr grande " and you can watch it. I don't know if you had already seen it, that's why my comment. Hope you're feeling good Rejane. Bye 😃
pocoeagle2 Hi Ben, yes I watched that video!
However the “self deception” analysis wasn’t my idea hah, it was Dr. Grande’s. I simply reiterated it because I completely agree with him, based on my life experiences. Specially in regards to communal narcissism, I believe that they believe they are doing the greater good, but without insight one is unable to see the truth. It’s actually a sad position to be in.
But thanks for pointing out this video!
Aah,.....ok 👍.
Yeah, I agree with you Rejane 😃
pocoeagle2 Hello again Ben! I went back and watched Dr. Grande’s video - “What is the core of narcissism” again. In that, I also saw your comment, and what a great comment! You mentioned immaturity as the core of narcissism. Very interesting!
I was thinking about all this for a moment, and I think the “lack of empathy” in narcissism is also such an important piece of the puzzle. Just a thought...
Very good of you Rejane you watched that vid again. Yes lack of empathy is a cornerstone very much. This lack of empathy towards others is always there in a narcissistic individual.. I mean with maturity, someone who is empathetic, reliable, responsible, trustworthy and can stand upon his/her own feet (being healthy independent), knows that life is about finding a balance. It's not black and white thinking. Life is mostly gray in many matters. Understanding and willing to give and take in relationships. Well probably a lot more, but this is already something if someone has developed these traits.
I wish you a nice evening and I hope you will stay healthy. The Coronavirus is a huge topic in our country. Well fortunately the welfare is one of the best in the world and we are a rich country. Tonight the government came with a ton of financial support. Nobody has to be afraid when they have or can't work now. Everyone will receive money from the government, when needed. So that already took away a lot of worry and anxiety among us. We are a small country with just 17 million people, but Dutch people are known for being helpful to each other when we're dealing with difficult times, like now.
Bye, bye 👍😃
OMG I'm going to have to watch this video again to understand. Truly a confusing manifestation of narcissism.
absolutely. I was hit by this type of narcissism a few months ago from my neighbour. I was in shock. I discovered that he pretended to be a guy that is not. I was extremely disappointed.
He was a likable guy trying to help but it turns out he was doing it for a different reason.
When I was in 'Nam with Todd Grande he taught me all about narcissism; narcissism creole, narcissism gumbo, fried narcissism, narcissism kabob, coconut narcissism, communal narcissism...
I miss Cajun cooking....they don't care if its healthy or not as long as its good! Gee I think I just made a statement with a double meaning!
Good one!
10/10 comment
That was extremely helpful. I knew my ex was some kind of narcissist. I was so in awe of her communal skills but now I understand what I 'knew' all along: that it was all for adoration and approval and power.
I'll often have difficulty pinpointing what kind of narcissist people are because some can cycle through different kinds, or even look more borderline or antisocial. But it's ALL rooted in narcissism. People who say the Cluster Bs "are so different" really need to look a lot closer at the motivations. They're not that different on the inside.
Religious leaders, yoga instructors....
Republicans, Democrats...
@@TheSimonScowl Hahahah...love it.
Barack Obama lulz!
@@SvenStadt More or less than other politicians?
@@TheSimonScowl probably the same.
Second point: I knew a lady who placed high emphasis on ethical standards within society... but was a vulnerable narcissist. Kind of similar... She would impose her standards on others with the image that she was moralizing society, but deep inside, it was all about her control.
Communal narcissist like my mother. Drop the roles & these narcissistic people are pure Evil. It's all a phoney mask.
I think most communal narcissists are merged with covert narcissists - in their behaviour. Very closely aligned with the 'Rescuer' on the Karpman Drama Triangle. SUCH a frustrating type to try and get others to see if they only see the 'good' the narcissist seems to be doing - but in reality, it's only the surface level 'look at me' good, not the nitty gritty work. I'm so glad this type of narcissist is being looked at more.
Exactly. Funny how the study didnt find a correlation because I think the underbelly of the communal narc IS the covert/vulnerable narc
My former friend is a communal narc who also has elements of a vulnerable narc. So frustrating
It was all over for communal narcissists when Joey Tribiani called them out on Friends lol You see many people who work in healthcare, especially mental health, who are really in it for themselves and the narcissistic supply that comes from the job. Its not about making the patient feel better but its all about them making themselves feel better via their patients. Either through delivering therapy or when this doesn't work by denigrating the patients by badmouthing them. Its very common. Patients would be shocked to hear what is said about them by some clinicians. Two routes to the same ego boost.
harry h how did Joey call them out? Can’t remember that episode...
harry h this is the reason I had to get out of the profession. As an empath, I was drained from all of the toxic energy.
@@true2theoryapriori497 Theres an episode where Joey has an argument with Pheobe to do with him saying there are no selfless good deeds. She disagrees, tries to prove him wrong but every time she does a good deed, she feels good about it and she realizes that doing good deeds arent selfless due to them making her feel good every time. Fits quite well with caring jobs really.
@@bradrea6170 The further you get from them the better your life will be.
@@harryh3203 From *Friends* ? Couldn't agree more. I never liked it. :P
This just reminds me of what's talked about in the Christian bible with the Pharisees. They would pray in the streets so everyone could hear them, they would sullen their faces while fasting for everyone to see, and when they gave they sounded a trumpet. All while doing evil to their followers.
I’m going to need to watch this one at least one more time. It sounds extremely complex and confusing, at least to me. 😄 I need not look further than your videos to keep my mind continuously engaged. Thank you, Dr. Grande.
I'm also going to have to watch this again. Lots of new info (for me). Always good to have these extras to ponder upon and file for use.
You're not alone. I will watch it again. I think I know people who fit the description but am wondering if there aren't a lot of them in society who make beneficial contributions. Not that I'd want to be a personal friend -- I think I have one of those in my life and am dropped rather quickly unless I'm needed as a means to an end for this "my way or the highway" type of person. No decisions by committee, always unilateral coming from them.
@@mikelobrien the litmus test for me was seeing if they ever showed their personal side. Their hopes and fears, humour and self awareness.
My Sister is a True Covert Narc. She uses the Fact that she is a Devout Church Goer and participates in Missionary Church Camps to bolster her Facade while she does her Mischief in the background.
Unfortunately this seems to be an all too common situation regarding narcissists using religion to try to cover their self-righteous claims and selfish motives. A lot of communal narcissists exist in various religious communities and groups and I have relatives who use their claim to be devout Christians as a cover for their narcissism. It does a lot of damage when one grows up in a family with one (or both) parents being narcissistic and strongly religious. It can lead to a lot of emotional - if not also physical - abuse being "justified" as o.k. because it's done by apparently otherwise "good" people who claim to truly care about others. And typically they'll be a few siblings who grow up as narcissistic and they'll also use religion as a cloak to deceive others about their true nature and motives. I'm sorry you are also experiencing this and hope others see your narcissistic sibling for who she is and that you can limit contact with her for the sake of your own wellbeing.
Wow, we have the same sister. Disgusting, aren't they?
This has been very enlightening to me. I've had a "friend" of several years who fits this nearly perfectly. Conveniently has put himself in a central coordinator volunteer role in our small community, arranging events and looking for helpers but never making decisions collaboratively. If you're not willing to do what he says when he says to do it, it becomes a "my way or the highway" situation and you're pretty much left out in the cold. And of course when all's said and done, he takes pretty much all the credit for the entire event. I thought something was wrong with me and I wasn't being a good enough "friend" and volunteer helper, but now I understand what I'm dealing with. Thanks, Dr. Grande ~ the situation has become clear from this talk. Much appreciated!
I live in a condominium organization. I can affirm your opinion, and go 100* further when these people are given decision making power over ones (communal) financial investments and securities.....they can utterly destroy opposing or indifferent viewpoints and positions and do it in a way that is isolating, alienating, degrading, dismissive, humiliating. Scapegoating, gaslighting, stonewalling, manipulation and lies; flying monkey's, proxy bullies....the whole gamut. Sadly, the laws don't go far enough to protect people, their health, wellness, investment or safety and security.
I think that a lot of youtubers/ 'influencers' have a deep communal narcissism problem. It seems that they want constant self validation while wanting to 'help us' and 'advice us' on what is 'good for us'. But as soon as they get criticism (a lot of times valid critics), they become so infuriated and almost have a mental breakdown that they usually record and post on line, usually with a lots of views than usual. They get 90% of reassuring, caring comments to make sure they get better. In a way, they got what they wanted: total attention and focus on them, and being praised for being such an amazing youtuber trying to help us while at the same time dealing with so much hardships in their life (could be true but general their struggles are minors and their complain extravagant). Just a thought.
Dr todd thanks for keeping us entertained and educated during this quarantine
Interesting video. I would think that communal narcissists would score high on Machiavellian, since they are good at making themselves seem like they are altruistic in order to achieve an agenda. I can really relate to that.
I consider myself to be selfless and altruistic, but also selfish at the same time. I want what's best for others because I believe that what's best for others is what's best for me - especially since I believe in reincarnation.
Also, what I feel is best for others, isn't always what they think is best.
Dr. Todd, your videos are absolutely fascinating. I don't really use these as resources for my own life because I don't feel I have any ongoing negative relationships but hearing these takes from a educated, clinical background is enthralling. I could listen to you talk about these topics for hours, and I certainly intend to. Thank you for the continual uploads!
Wow, thank you so much Dr. Grande. I have witnessed this bizarre construct personally. Your description, as always, was absolutely, chillingly, accurate. If I need factual, unbiased info, I always turn to your videos. And have referred countless others to you for facts, rather than personal bias.
Thanks Dr G . Looks like I’m going to have time to binge watch some past vids.😉😎 Hope you are safe/healthy . Great video
Whoah! Another thought provoking topic . Is it common for a narcissist in a communal context to attract, manipulate multiple supplies to create agencies?
Bravo! You amaze me with your brain!
"A wolf with limited apparel options" Well said!
Dr. G, Thank you! Everyone needs to hear this! Thank you for sharing on your Channel.
This literally made me cry. I have watched alot of videos that made me angry and feel that sense of injustice. This one was so blunt and informed made me just sit here and sob. I hope that is a good sign of cleansing and healing on the way. Thank you for being you Dr. Grande.
Thank you for sharing your videos. I really enjoy your calm, thorough, information packed delivery. Please keep them coming. :)
Thank you Dr.!! My friend is a therapist and we discuss your videos regularly (we are both subs)!! Keep up the great work!!
My god, never before have I heard of this type of narcissism. That was amazingly eye-opening and makes so much sense! Thank you doctor Grande!
I notice a lot these traits in online activism. This would be an interesting research topic.
Eureka... communal narcissism. Behaves communally while lacking authentic concern for other people. It's nice to have language to describe a reality I was a long time in recognizing.
Thank you for consistent videos during my trying times haha I’m at home I feel so stuck ugh quarantine
Pintrest helps, too!
I am diagnosed with NPD but never considered whether communal narcissism applied to me. It may or may not be the full story in my case, but it is definitely an influential factor. For example, I score high in Machiavellianism and medium in psychopathy. I lack empathy and am typically quite apathetic towards the needs of others. Yet, I am always seeking to lift others up rather than knock them down. I take pride in influencing others’ emotions for the positive, such as making someone’s day with a compliment or listening and offering advice to someone. I love helping others because it puts me in a position of power. I remember one time that I helped someone with BPD who had had a horrible day. She became so attached to me after I was charming and charismatic and helped lift her mood on a bad day. It gave me an immense high and a feeling of invincibility. I find that communal narcissism behavior helps me a lot in life because it helps draw others to me, it benefits me in terms of supply, and it benefits others. It also has kept anyone from ever assuming I am a narcissist.
It was fascinating to read your comment and I am glad you're aware of the motivations for wanting to uplift others - it makes them feel better and gives you narcissistic supply. I did wonder about your last sentence, though. Do you really think that no one, besides the clinician who diagnosed you with NPD, has thought or worked out that you're a narcissist? I ask because sometimes people with NPD who like to help others - as in Dr. Grande's analysis of communal narcissism above - don't think anyone knows they're narcissistic. They like seeing others they interact with 'glow at' the compliments or help they give but frequently they'll be at least a few people who've detected the underlying narcissism. Those who've seen the narcissism are usually family members and also may be past friends who saw the narcissism and decided to limit contact with the narcissist, if not slowly ensure the contact diminished and made it look like they "naturally" drifted apart or even let the narcissist think the narcissist was in charge of the relationship ending. Just something you might wish to consider because I know a few relatives who are definitely communal narcissists and, many years ago, decided to minimise my contact with them. To this day they don't know I am aware of their narcissism - I'm not about to contact them to tell them this! - nor that I purposely chose to let our relationship drift apart for the sake of the wellbeing of myself and my family. Anyway, I'm glad you're an insightful individual - many people with narcissism are definitely not inclined to insight or self-analysis except where it makes them feel good about themselves - and I hope you're able to continue to work with a good therapist to deal with the NPD. I am glad you seem to be actually helping others even if the motives are to benefit yourself and hide your actual NPD!
Kybele Kordax I’m very happy to hear that my comment was helpful! I take the time to write these long comments on Dr. Grande’s videos for that exact reason. It’s one thing to hear the facts from a clinician, but I recognize some people may also be interested in reading things from a narcissist’s perspective. I in no way speak for everyone with NPD, but always hope that my experiences provide further insight.
I didn’t consider my family when saying that no one has assumed I’m a narcissist. My parents have called me narcissistic and egocentric and even asked if maybe I was a narcissist, but I was able to redirect their focus by telling them I am diagnosed with OCPD (which I am). Given that they assumed that I had told them all I was diagnosed with, they have since stopped speculating about my diagnoses and instead used adjectives (narcissistic, egocentric, selfish, etc.) to describe my behavior when applicable. Beyond my family, I have no reason to believe anyone I know sees me as a narcissist.
Most people I know either a.) love me and are drawn to my personality (I’m charismatic and I make people feel good about themselves) or, in rare cases, b.) are repelled by my strong personality or just don’t like me. I’ve been told by many that it’s because they’re jealous, and I’m sure this is true in some cases, but I’m inclined to consider that possibility with a more critical lens given that I‘m aware my narcissism would like nothing more than to accept it blindly.
Anyway, thank you for your kind and civil response. There are some pretty terrible people with NPD but we’re not all evil. My motives may deviate from a non-narcissist, but at the end of the day, I strive to make almost everyone’s life just a little bit better than before they spent time with me.
This video presents such a wonderfully nuanced facet of what I think of as "super clinical narcissism," a term I find useful for classifying constructs out there on the fringes of the core traits. For me, Dr. Grande's analysis dove pretty deeply into the subject just when I thought I had a reasonably good handle on the topic. I was fascinated by Professor Grande's comment that someone could have the behavior of a communal narcissist but not the personality of one if I understood him correctly. That idea took me by surprise, and I'll have fun tossing it around in my head for a while, trying to think of individuals who might fit the bill. There's so much more to unpack in this content-rich and thought-provoking video.
This is basically the topic I asked about a few months ago. Thanks for covering it!
Your work informs me and I enjoy your delivery. Stay healthy sir! Thanks 🙏🏼
The real pandemic 😳
So true!
💯💯
The real pandemic is panic.
@Dark Blue Lol! You just made my day, thank you! 😂😀
@Dark Blue Excellent analogy! I'd amend it to say "you don't MAKE time for [it]."
Either way, the world would be a better place with more tp origami art! 😛😀
Very insightful concepts. I had not heard the term 'communal" relative to narcissism. I think self-deception is a critical element, maybe with regards to many narcissist traits and behaviors. Often they hide behind altruism, non-profits and volunteering. Some will become "coaches" online for a variety of things. Some will work hard for causes that they "believe in." In both cases they can work toward a forum that gives them status and access, either through group leadership or a physical podium which validates status. They can convince themselves marriage and parenting are good pursuits, yet their are no core emotions (or competencies) that support them in the roles of mother or spouse. To me, this also seems very similar to our discussion around empathy, and how they can fane empathy because cognitively they know what empathy looks like and how to present like they have it. Yet, behind their empathy is a lack of emotion that would normally be the genesis for their core beliefs about the value of others in their life.
Self-deception is what keeps them sane, otherwise they'd have to truly grapple with how much of a piece of shit they can be.
This is a new one for me thanks! Keep up the good work.
Enjoy your vids but I'm feeling like I've heard enough about narcissism for awhile. Would love a series on coping with grief. Seems like that would be info everyone could apply to their life.
I'm 100% with you on this
No thanks on this comment.
Slick You’re either a very damaged individual who desperately needs to learn how to cope with grief or a malignant narcissist who wants another 25 vids on yourself.
AGREE AGREE AGREE
Grief is a belief that you lost something. If you really want to heal yourself, please read A Course in Miracles. Find it on the web - read Chapter 9, Section 8 Grandeur vs Grandiosity. It applies to all of us - but we can see it in the narcissist. If you can find the truth in these words, then the Course is for you. It healed me immensely, because I knew that the problem of ego was in me, not in the other. It's an amazing life-changer. Best of luck. x
This is fascinating. I’ll definitely watch it again......so much info to process.
Thank you Dr. Grande!❤️
God bless you. I saw the topic for today and said, oh my, how timely! I got my pen and paper out before I turned on play today. Thank you so much for this video, it explained well what I deal with in my life!
Fascinating! Thank you Dr Grande!
I'll have to watch this one twice, & do a few pausing throughout, as I feel this info needs a productive place in ones toolbox!
🐛📚🦋
Thanks for more great insights Todd. I know the guy of whom you speak, well at least one.
We know there are more out there, quite disconcerting really, but seeing that behavior for what it is, is so very helpful and useful.
Lots of female influencers on Instagram and Facebook seem to fit this idea
Dr Grande you are so good at giving lecture I fell as if I'm attending a class. I learned a lot from you n my life is great now without the narcissists.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for another excellent analysis, Dr. Grande. I thoroughly enjoy your scientific approach and your intelligent wit!
There is a woman in my church who is a communal narcisist. She will stay up late at night to clean and prep the church and send others assigned to it home, because she wants the credit. Meanwhile she will tell other people how to live their spiritual life and she even called a young woman in the church a witch! It took me many years, but I finally saw what she was about and I stay away as much as possible
So glad for such great light 💡 on a problem I saw with my pastor! He is so giving. and can be quite cruel at times! I did not understand it until I stumbled on your video! Thank you 😊!
Interesting topic . Thank you Dr Grande .💚
Highly interesting video on a sparsely covered topic. Thank you very much for your communal contribution 😉
I'm thinking about some animal rescue warriors and almost all social workers.
People are animals too.
Rescuing animals is good unfortunately not all can be saved. However, I think some people do use it to pretend they are genuinely good people. I think it is possible that some rescue organizations use it as a cover for criminal activities. Some of these "rescuers" can be aggressive and hostile toward humans in their interactions. So there is some inconsistencies in their "altruistic" behavior. Some also display behaviors of self entitlement and grandiosity. I just think it is a possibility but unless people are diagnosed it is hard to say with absolute certainty.
I don’t agree, I’ve got social workers in my family, and they are literally the opposite of narcisists. Some social justice warriors and activists maybe
@@RC-qu8xg
You read my mind
I have witnessed outright abusive behavior towards humans from some of these people. They judge the situation before having all the information and I have also seen that certain breeds make them a lot of money, so yes there's a criminal element but what seems to be obvious is that at some point it is no longer about the animals that are sometimes sick or abused or lost. It crosses a line where it is about profit, competition, ego and control. Sometimes they attack each other when they don't agree on certain issues. And then of course there are those who are genuinely helpful and understand that by educating people without judgment is in the animals best interest. There are those who don't lose sight of their objective and work with trainers rather than point fingers or give up on a dog with difficult behaviors. There's a group of retired people who have a volunteer program to work with fearful and aggressive dogs to get them approved for adoption and as a result our county shelter has become a no kill facility except in cases where the animal is badly injured or too sick to recover. Some shelters in large cities actually sell euthanized animals to pet food manufacturers for a profit. I would think that someone running an operation like that without considering other options would have to be psychopathic or at least have psychopathic traits. And anyone working in that environment would have to be absent of conscience as well. Human beings can be very puzzling indeed.
Thank you for your wise comment.
Peace 🐕
@@seren3797 @unplugged dog dreams I agree to a certain extent with Cheech. To say all social workers are narcissistic is an irrational assumption. There isn't enough evidence to support that wild claim. Just because you have been presented with information from this video doesn't mean you have the expertise to diagnose anyone you choose. It's possible that you had a bad experience with a few social workers and now you generalize that experience to all social workers. One must be careful on how one processes information presented in this video. Having that said, I think it is possible that some social workers can display narcissistic traits. However, proper diagnosis must be used to determine with good certainty that a person is narcissistic.
An interesting revelation - have been watching your videos to try to understand the narcissist in my life (albeit peripherally) and this one hits the nail on the head. They have forced their way into my circle of friends and endeavour to do kindnesses and favours to everyone but inevitably there is a reckoning with some kind of payback required - or a constant reminder is given of ‘all that has been done’ until the appropriate thanks and public praise is received.
Very interesting and insightful. Obviously, I can't diagnose, but it all seems to really fit well with one of my sisters. I could never have guessed that she had high levels of narcissism in the past. It is only through years of therapy, self development, self responsibility etc, I have finally seen the truth and had to go no contact. I was so taken in by the volunteer, carer, rescurer etc roles, that I explained away the anger and rage, the need for control and power. Communal narcissists can hide very well and be difficult to detect.
This is truly illuminating - thank you!
Now this is fascinating. I need to watch this a few times to get it
I´ve always noticed that socialists and other proponents of political ideologies of state control and domination who seek elected office or other government positions tend to show clear narcissistic traits. They also tend to have done poorly in private life before seeking elected office, which seems to suggest that they were unable to fulfill their need for agendic narcissistic supply and so look for it via the community. So this concept of communal narcissism really makes sense and explains a lot. It also explains why they tend to care more about elevating themselves through "lofty ideals" yet clearly don´t care about people, to the point of actually despising them privately.
Thank you for this information and insight, Dr. Grande.
That rings true with someone I know. It makes me sad to think of the bitterness within them.
Great video, great explanations... I'm fully aware now! Thank you!
These stick like glue to the target, helping superficially and gate keeping all information, they expect to know and be part of all other interactions! This being their projected high influence on their connections.
What a beautiful video which really helps with clarity thanks so much
Communals are alllll over social media -many showing nothing but selfies and posts on all their perfect lives, families and work. Always the most upbeat and caring and they constantly let us know.
I think I went from classic narcissisit, to covert after I was diagnosed with NPD, and then by trying to get back on my feet, it seems like I'm turning into a communal narcissist by surrounding myself with mentally ill people and trying to help them so much. I also try to help people at work a lot because it makes me feel good about myself. I was also brought up in a religious familly who treated me like a gifted child, and I truely believed it.
If I help someone, sometimes successfully, and they want to keep hanging out etc, I decline and become distant. Maybe deep down they lose their usefulness because they don't make me feel good anymore?
I sometimes surprise myself with thoughts such as "If they were asked who is the most helpful person in the group, they would say it's me". It sometimes feels like I can't escape from the narcissism vicious circles. I hope that therapy will cure me somehow. I also worry that if I get "better", I'll simply fall back into classic narcissism which I don't want to.
Thanks for the good video
I know such person. They are capable of putting a stage for people to think worst of you after break up with them.
The phrase "communal narcissism" made me think of internet viewers who join in bands around a person or issue and promote the idea externally and among themselves that they are warriors for justice and better than others. I'll offer the Meghan Markle "sugars" as an example; I realize this shows my bias, but I think an example is helpful. What is going on with such groups? Are they a new phenomenon? A modern version of basic human nature? Thank you for your videos, Dr. Grande.
Thank you so much for this information.
I think of 2 people. First is anyone who runs for president (even the people I support). How arrogant do you have to be to think you're the one who deserves to run one of the largest countries in the world and you think you can make it better?
2nd is activists. I'm at the point now where if I hear someone say "I'm an activist" my mind goes straight to hearing "I'm a narcissist". Activists almost always make everything about them and will lie through their teeth to get attention and it often hurts the cause they claim they support.
You’re confusing people who sometimes exhibit narcissistic behavior with people who have actually narcissistic personality disorder. They are not the same thing at all.
ALL human beings can exhibit narcissistic behavior at times. In fact most people do show it when they get angry or they get overly passionate or zealous about something. It’s just part of human nature and the way we express ourselves. It does not mean we are all narcissists.
So just because two groups of people appear to be showing narcissistic behavior in your eyes does not mean they all have NPD. If they did, the world would be a far worse place than it already is, with that many narcs running it. As someone who has endured narcissistic abuse, I know this. You, on the other hand, most likely have not been a victim of narcissistic abuse.
@@kaymuldoon3575 maybe or maybe not, but thank you for commenting on this. I'm watching the video again and it's a good one.
@@Aaron-kj8dv I knew very little about narcissism until about 8 months ago, when I leaned that a former friend of mine happened to be one. Since then I’ve been watching a lot of videos on the subject.
I would like to suggest two other professional psychologists/psychotherapists I follow: Dr. Ramani and Dr. Les Carter (his YT channel is called “Surviving Narcissism.”). They’re both very knowledgeable on the subject. In fact it was from Dr. Ramani where I leaned that all people can sometimes show what appears to be narcissistic behavior but are not necessarily narcissists. What can identify someone as a true narcissist is by observing patterns of behavior and patterns of abuse. I found that to be very interesting.
Good luck on your journey. It’s an interesting subject and I think it has helped me tremendously.
@@kaymuldoon3575 I know Dr Ramani, I like her a lot. I never heard of the other guy but I'll check him out.
In college I hung out with a bunch of activist types, although I was never an activist myself. I remember one guy in particular who had like an IG page and everything and he used to upload selfies of himself onto it. I was genuinely confused because I was young and dumb and didn't understand that his "activism" was actually about him. So I asked him about it and you would think I said his mother was a prostitute, he got so offended and angry at me lol
Luckily I bolted out of that entire friend group because they all struck me as being up their own ass, but I'm willing to be over half of them have narcissistic tendencies
@@Aaron-kj8dv your college acquaintance definitely sounds narcissistic indeed. It’s when everything is always about them that is part of the pattern. I’m sure a lot of activists and also politicians are narcissists, but not all of them are. Narcs unfortunately infiltrate all of areas of our lives. Wish we could get rid of them.
Dr. Carter is a licensed psychotherapist who gives free advice on his UA-cam channel, helping people learn how to manage and deal with people who have narcissists in their lives. He’s from Texas (you can tell by his accent) and in fact when you first hear him talk, his voice and his accent does sound a lot like Dr Phil. But he is a much nicer person, thankfully. He has a good way of explaining the different behavior patterns and uses a lot of examples. Prior to his focus on narcissism and NPD, he was an anger management therapist.
Self awe from being righteous and from praise, compliments for there good deeds
This is so my father, especially after you said “My kindness is so powerful, that sometimes it hurts people” lol pretty much a perfect description of him tbh even physical abuse is in my best interest, he had no other choice obv
Wow dr. Grande should write a book called Narcissistic Behaviour for Dummies. Thanx for amazing input Doc. 😍
You nailed it, thank you
Perfect timing , a so called friend of my husband stopped in ,, they are in a different room but can hear this . For this situation it was so nice . God works .
Wow. This is nuts. Thanks!
I’m so glad that you made a video addressing communal narcissism. I think it’s the black sheep of narcissism and it still is narcissism. That joke about not knowing what wolves wear because they don’t wear clothes or something. That got me so good 😂🤣 I had to center myself after that one
Thank you, Dr. G., this one is truly mind-boggling!
I guess praising the communal narcissist is equal to enabling them? Is it possible that positive feedback is like "getting too close" to them, which in turn would explain their reaction and a move to argentic narcissism, since it's something akin to a "safe place" for them?
Yooo this really sounds like my dad. He goes way out of his way to help others and volunteer for things in public, but at home he goes out of his way to not be helpful. Towards the end of their marriage my mom started seeing the more traditional traits of a narcissist like antisocial behavior and aggression, but only at home. No one believed her until he started turning against her friends as well. People first meeting him tend to like him because he acts like a goofy, overtly helpful adult child. The more you question him though, the more that mask starts to drop. It’s both fascinating and terrifying.
I wasn’t able to figure out what may be causing his behavior until I started diving deep into psychology. He doesn’t have the traditional traits of a narcissist, he doesn’t give much attention to looks, gives self-deprecating humor (usually as a way to garner pity), and appears to have a lot of empathy (when everyone can see him have empathy, at least).
He’s an enigma in 90’s dad jeans.
Dr. Grande, could you make a video explaining how sub clinical narcisism can be differentiated from pathological narcisism? Love your content.
New glasses Doc? Great session as always...
I have a coworker who comes across as a lovely brilliant helpful guy who is my favorite but he fits this discription very well. Also he is very vulnerable to my compliments which I guess displays my machiavellinism.
OK, I think my brain knotted up trying to understand the communal narcissist. Are there any good examples of this personality disorder in history or famous figures? I would benefit from another video on this topic to get better clarity. Thank you for being so educational.
A lot of cult leaders and yoga instructors are communal narcisists
I had a supervisor like that... Would brag about helping people and volunteer on the weekends, all the while bullying me and trying to get me fired in order to climb the ladder. I prefer a clear-cut, grandiose narcissist any day.
Great explanation. Thanks Dr. Grande. I was thinking about Anna nicole and was wondering what your take was on her? Maybe you could do an analysis of her and what she presented with? Always great content Dr. Grande.
LIFEISAJOURNEY, that WOULD be interesting! I actually felt sorry for her but I know what you are saying! It might be what killed her!
Cluster B
Possibly Histrionic Personality Disorder
You know it's a good one..when I gotta watch 2wice lol. Answered couple questions I had..thank you!:)
'If only people would just get out of my way I could bring peace and harmony to the world'😂
Wow - your best one yet!! This explains (at least to me) people who are very public with things like global philanthropy, saving developing countries & continents, etc. Is communal narcissism part of DSM-5? I know DSM-5 and communal narcissism are relatively new.
Hmm. You have brought a new and complex variant to the table and I shall have to go over this one again. With the Ex being a licensed counselor after 15 years of Social Work, and her persona fooling the community as if she cares. This might explain a few things considering her believable apparent empathy for her clients.
Dr Grande, you’ve done it again! *on goes the light bulb*. I used to work among many characters like this in care. Strangely enough, I found them egotistical and false because they would bang on about how much the service users loved them, and how much over time they were willing to do, blah blah 😑. It is often said that when you do something from the good of your own heart with no agenda, why would you need to be boastful about it? 🧐
Gosh so many comments, I hope you see mine! Dr. Grande any videos or ideas on how to help narcissists gain insight (of their maladaptive behaviors, selfish motivations, etc.) Perhaps this starts with self-awareness or an ability to self-reflect. Thanks for your videos!!!! 👏🏾👏🏾🙌🏻🙌🏻👍🏽
Please do a video on Sam Vaknin
Thanks a loooot for this video, it really clarifies a lot for me, can you pls make a video about healing a communal narcissist ? Plsss