Are Shaft Drive Motorcycles Better Than Chain Drives? Watch this then decide...
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- Опубліковано 6 сер 2023
- 🏍️ In this episode Rembo takes you on a thrilling ride into the world of chain drive motorcycles vs. shaft drive motorcycles. If you're passionate about two-wheelers like we are, you won't want to miss this!
🔗 Chain Drive:
Discover the raw power and agility of chain-driven motorcycles as we delve into the nitty-gritty details. We'll discuss the pros and cons, maintenance tips, and the unparalleled thrill of feeling that direct connection to the road.
🛠️ Shaft Drive:
On the flip side, we explore the smooth and low-maintenance world of shaft-driven motorcycles. Rembo breaks down the advantages and disadvantages, shedding light on the engineering marvel that is the shaft drive system.
🤔 Which is Right for You?
Are you a speed demon or a cruising aficionado? Rembo provides valuable insights to help you decide which drive system suits your riding style and preferences.
🛣️ Road Tested:
We take both types of bikes out for a spin, showcasing their real-world performance. Get ready for some heart-pounding action as we put these machines to the test!
🛠️ Maintenance Tips:
Worried about keeping your ride in top shape? We've got you covered with essential maintenance tips for both chain and shaft-driven motorcycles.
Whether you're a seasoned rider or a newbie gearing up for your first bike, this video has something for everyone. Join Rembo on this thrilling journey and make an informed choice for your next ride.
Don't forget to like, share, and subscribe for more epic motorcycle content! 🏁 - Авто та транспорт
Shaft or Chain?
Wow, touching the third rail. I guess with your work you need some excitement. I personally don't believe this will be answered until electric motor drive systems are perfected. The consistent torque of electric drives make exotic belt materials beneficial. It is the kind of stuff used on machine tools for high precision movement.
Hydraulic tappets, gear driven cams and a shaft drive = perfection.
Possibly dry clutch too so more efficient oils can be used, something you can just feed fresh fluids and wash occasionally (yeah I'm lazy😂😂)
Chian
@@prawny12009I use Amsoil synthetic in my Goldwing. Wet clutch but no slip whatsoever.
The only chain bike I ever had was my first. A Honda Hawk 400. Everything after has been a shafty. Never looked back. And the folks who talk about efficiency as in power transfer never rode a V Max or ZL 900 Eliminator. I had both and am lucky my arms are still attached.
The Eliminator had the Ninja engine that was so strong it had to be de tuned for the Eliminator so it wouldn't rip the teeth right off the ring gear. Still pulled like hell. Had a couple of Secas too. Then a series of Goldwings as I grew out of the speed demon phase. I could say some bad things about the Yamahas but not about the shaft drives. All no problems, no perceived power deficits & no rear end jacking.
Shafts all the way.
Listened to your argument and opinion and for a life long rider in my 60’s I couldn’t disagree more. Never had a shaft drive issue ever, shaft drive all the way for me and my needs.. only wish at least a third of all bikes available were shaft.. chains are such a pain in the arse. Personal choice, respect yours though. 😊👍😎
The respect goes both ways.
Same comment I'd make. They aren't a choice though. Shaft generally requires a horizontal opposed engine. Chains are for parallel engines. It's all about the way the crankshaft spins.
@@chadkline4268 Accepted but easily sorted with a relatively simple middle gear box as fitted to many a shaftie. 👍😎
@@nigelphillpotts1086 I've never seen otherwise. There would be a big expense and loss of power to convert a parallel engine to a shaft drive. 2x more inefficient and costly than a horizontal opposed shaft drive.
@@chadkline4268 All the big Japanese manufacturers have done it successfully with more than enough power left over, not everyone is looking to rip the covers off their tyres..
I have a 30 year old shaft drive bike, never failed, only maintenance is regular oil refresh. Neat and tidy, smooth shaft drive safety.
I purchased a Honda vt1100 brand new in 1995 I just sold that bike in 2023for 3000 dollars. That was the smoothest bike I have ever rode. Other than brakes, tune ups and carb rebuilds. Once a year I had the oil changed in the rear end and one set of new gaskets in the rear after 11 years.
The efficiency of a chain is much greater than a shaft drive. Chains can have 1-5% loss vs up to 20% loss for a shaft drive. This and cost are why you generally don't see shafts on sport bikes. Great video subject. Thanks!
Thanks for the info!
Chain nearly was the only thing that nearly put me off buying my Multistrada V4S. Such a pia compared to shaft. But no lag, I’ll give you that. PS - my Yam XJ750 did 36000 miles over 40 years before I even changed the oil in shaft drive. Still going strong now. - now that’s low maintenance!
How did you calculate the losses for chain drives and for shaft drives? I would have thought that the shaft drive is a fixed connection, just like your gearbox, with minimal losses other than the inertia due to the weight of the rotating parts. Chains have variable stretch and also "play" between the chain and the two sprockets which can vary wildly depending on strain during acceleration as well as the slack on the chain...
@@Macedonia270 , Google.
@@Macedonia270 In a shaft drive system, power is transferred from the engine to the rear wheel through a series of gears and shafts. Each gear and shaft has its own mechanical resistance, which contributes to power loss. Additionally, the gears need to mesh together, and this engagement also introduces some degree of mechanical inefficiency.
Your chain has a Cush drive just like the shaft drive so the instant contact is an illusion, you are referring to the chain snatch, all those tiny components put under enormous load stretching the week link, pulling the back wheel ever so slightly out of alignment wearing the teeth of not one but two sprockets. The shaft drive has been on bikes since the beginning. How many kids you see riding with the chain dragging on the ground ready to cause that horrible flesh tearing accident? I have 2 shaft drive bikes both ride differently both are smooth, both were built in the 80’s. I’m in my 60’s and do my own maintenance and am sooo pleased I don’t have to mess with the mess of a chain. Now the rubber belt on the other hand……
Has anyone ever seen a Honda shaft drive fail..?
I doubt it.
But I'm curious
No belt drive in the argument, for the third wheel position... thank god.
Saying that a chain just needs occasional TLC is a bit too close to salesman talk for me.
My previous 2 bikes were both Triumph Rocket 3s and the lack of required maintenance for the shaft drive was one of the features that I really loved about the bikes.
Admittedly the extra unsprung weight required stiffer suspension which compromised handling to a certain extent.
Apart from that I was generally impressed with both bikes.
I now have a Ducati Multistrada V4S Sport which is indeed a wonderful bike. Certainly the handling is at a higher level than the Triumph Rockets and the build quality is very high. The main thing that annoys me is having to look after the chain. It is not just the frequent cleaning, lubing and occasional checking of the chain tension, but also having to alternate between having the Bike on the side stand and then on the centre stand depending on whether you are cleaning/lubing or adjusting. It doesn't help that its not easy getting the bike on the centre stand and I ended up getting a Paddock stand to help out.
It boils down to your style and type of riding. If you want sports bike handling get a chain drive. Otherwise a good shaft drive is better for longer distance touring.
I have a V4s Ducati. So easy to get on the centre stand. Lube and clean on the centre stand. Simple
after 5 years of chain, im sick of the maintenance... im looking for a belt or shaft, nobody wants to keep oiling up every 300m
I know. That’s so difficult, especially with today’s pre-lubricated chains. It’s so hard to just dab a little oil and clean some thing. I understand what you mean.
I had a chain break on me, I don't think that would with a shaft drive.
I still prefer shaft drive on my cruiser style bikes, over chain drive, and i prefer chain drive, on my dirt oriented bikes, each type has its category it belongs in.
I agree
Not biased at all
I know. That’s what makes this video great.
Chain sucks I’m never buying chain again. First bike was shaft and I can’t wait to get back to it. I’d consider belt though.
Chain is not instant power delivery chain = delay shaft =instant power you got it backwards
My old viirago xv535 was shaft drive and it handled lovely for a cruiser, still flickable but zero messing about with greasy chains adjusting tension or anything.
My mate had a gpz900r and was constantly complaining about the chain adjustment/ replacing sprockets etc etc, yes his was way faster in a straight line but I could lose him in the country lanes easy.
I wonder if belt drive would be a good compromise ...?
Anyway, my biking days stopped when I had a kid but that was over 20 years ago and I want another bike now, biggest thing on my list is reliability closely followed by zero fiddling apart from service time so shaft preferred...
Love the shaft drive on my cb650sc. The only maintenance I do is change the gear oil. It's only 5.6 oz's... well, ok, maybe a little bit more in the ST1300, but I don't look forward to cleaning adjusting and lubing my chain motorcycle. Harley Davidson went to a belt many years ago and it was a great upgrade over the chain. With a belt, you just replace them when the owners manual says to... The biggest advantage I can see for a chain is that you can increase or decrease the sprocket size for dialed in performance. Enjoyed your video!
Thank you for the feedback,
I bought a quick change rear sprocket when I last replaced my chain and sprockets. With a single side swing arm and the quick change sprocket, chain and sprocket replacements are fairly easy and inexpensive. Replacing my chain and sprockets myself is at least 50% less expensive than having the dealer do the job.
*laughs in Suzuki boulevard*
There only better when you really know about motorcycles.. when is the last time u said i cant wait to wake up early before work and lube my chain then go to work!! Noo its more like i wake up and drive my bike to work cause i dont have to lube my dam chain!!
In my case I don't really care what drive system a motorcycle has. If it works then thats all i care about. As for maintenace of each one I just do it when necessary and thats it. No need to cry or complain about it
Actually had several shaft BMW's now own a V4S. I am on my first chain bike and I loving the snappier respyfein the bike. Its surprising to be honest as i am getting more comfortable with the bike. I am already ordering chain maintenance stuff, as plan on keeping this one and riding it many miles.
Excellent to hear
Why no mention of arguably the best compromise of both drive systems, kevlar belt?
I had a belt drive Indian and loved it. Future video
And breathing spray lube is healthy...keeps the alveoli moist. I'm a fan of belts. Lower maintenance than the others. Honestly though, I rarely lube the chains. I clean it up good before winter to keep it from rusting. As you say, the lube is inside. I replace them every 20k miles. For $100, planned obsolesce beats a regular messy maintenance routine. I tend to spray teflon on it when I do do it. It solidifies and doesn't leave a greasy mess on the rear wheel.
Right on
I wonder how many times you can replace a chain before you exceed the cost of replacing one shaft, which BMW says needs to be done at 36,000 miles on the new R 1300 GS.
At 36,000 miles I would expect to change the chain once during that time.
I guess at the end of the day, I prefer shaft-drive for ease of maintenance. I've definitely owned more chain-driven bikes than shaft-driven...and at the end of the day it's not a huge deciding factor when choosing a bike. I clean my chain about once per month, or after hitting the wet stuff. I don't lube it, because I get high quality x-ring chains and the critical components have the lube sealed in by the o-rings. My goal is to keep the grit out and I can't say I've seen noticeably more wear since starting to do this. It's been working well for me, and I guess that's all I can say.
Why you say "because you like the SHAFT" the way you do? Does the MY SHAFT intimidate you?
It must be
Shaft drive is cleaner, no adjustments, once a year oil change. .. . If you do not race all the time, every where , the shaft is way enough .. . . , weight ? ? ? Your bike will run like it does, , , Jack up and down ? ? My old XS-750-E tripple did it a lot but you get used to it. . As for my XJ-750 rl, bearely perceptible. .Longuer shaft. . I was faster than a Suzuki 750 Katana Special Edition, # 189.. . . I had a 1984... , the katana was 1986.. . I weighted 175 poundes, Mike 140 max. . . . . At top speed , well warmed both bike , I was about a walking pace faster than him. . He naked bike with small front screen. I had a half fairing. . .WE switched bike and he raced ahead cleanly. .5 mph faster. .. . The next week, he had a GSX 750 🤣 .
Great information. Thank you for sharing with the group.
The first shaft drive bike I've ridden is the Honda Fury I bought a few weeks ago. All I can say is I'm a shaft drive fan now. Smoothest power delivery I've ever felt. Just smooth AF
...
They certainly are smooth.
I have been using Regina HPE chain which was advertised as maintenance free. Well, second year or so Regina started to recommend lubricating by the end of the season or after a heavy rain. The first chain lasted 29000 kms, I lubricated it twice in two years. Second one is now rolling, and I plan to add some oil to seal rings maybe two or three times during the season. The chain seems to save the sprockets, the front I normally change every 15000kms, but with Regina there is no need for it. It looks like the front sprocket should be replaced with the chain, the rear sprocket shows no sign of wear, so it it good to replace every second chain.
A clear sign of the end-of-life is the need for adjusting. If the shifter doesn't work as smoothly as normally, it tells that the chain is loose (or bad). And if it requires adjustment again in 1000 kms, and you have done over 15000 kms with the chain, it is time for a replacement.
Anyway, although DID or some other better brand might last longer (by lubricating it every second refuel), I like Regina for keeping the bike clean and there is no need to keeping the dirty spray with the luggage.
Great information, thanks
Save for single sided swing arm or snailcam slack adjusters, maintaining perfect rear wheel toe alignment is a messy affair with chains!
Doesn't the xdiavel have a belt?
X Diavel does have a belt drive
I realise this vid is somewhat “tongue in cheek”, and in general I think I’d agree with all the points, except one, that the chain is more instant/direct in terms of feel and road contact….. I’m not sure that’s true, because even with a well adjusted chain, you do get a bit more delay and slack between “on and off throttle”, as the tension switches from top to bottom and vice versa.
I agree the chain and sprocket looks cooler too, and maintenance not a bind. Fling lube onto the wheel is a bit more of a bind.
I do hear that the % power absorbed by the transmission is worse with the shaft, so best on only high torque machines.
Maybe I’ll go for a shaft drive when I’m old 😃😃
I am an old fuck chains suck lazy people like me like to put my energy in other things I just want to ride shafts for me all day long VMAX please come back.
You need to try the shaft drive from the Concours 14
@1:50 I see what you did there lol
I hope it was taken in jest as funny.
@@RemboUSMC yes
Accessibility would play a great role, imagine servicing the chain on a Goldwing or any other large bagger - other than the US made bikes with rubber bands.
The moment you twist the throttle on a shaft driven motorcycle it becomes quite unstable.
It lurches to the side then power comes in compared to other drives.
Chain do need a lot of maintenance(I drive through a lot of sandy and dusty roads).
It isn't too bad and might even be relaxing if you got a stand for it.
Interesting information. Thanks for sharing with us.
Dual sided shaft would eliminate the torque reaction.
@@prawny12009
Which motorcyles have dual sided shaft drives.? I wanna try riding for the experience.
Sorry but I've never experienced any of that.
A myth. Most likely perpetuated by those with little of no shaft time ridden.
I've had many shafts. Two with legendary power. The V Max and The ZL 900 Eliminator. They were made for blast offs. I can say plenty bad about the V Max in the area of turning(frame not robust enough)and braking but never had any instability related to the shaft whatsoever. Or with any if the many shafties I've gone through.
Not trying to start a pissing contest but I do expressly disagree with your assessment.
@@Coldwarrior7781
Not sure if 6 years and 80k KM of shaft drive time is small.
Never ridden the bigger shaft driven motorcycle so it might be different with more power.
If I want a shaft drive I’ll buy a car ….Awesome 😂 …. I’ve had mostly shaft drives - Goldwings, ST1300, VFR1200F… Now I’m back on the chain. I love the lighter weight, and honestly, sealed chains don’t need much… A little WD-40 to keep them from rusting. Good Video
Thank you
Never had a problem with a shaft drive. Never knew anyone who did. Chain maintenance SUCKS! A chain adds no nimbleness to a bike. That is all in the weight of the bike, design such as fork angle, rake, trail. Pisses me off that Honda quit putting shaft drives on a lot of their bikes. Chain SUCKS dude.
Nice T-shirt! 😀
Still it depends where you live. This year's sommer is shaftdrive. No trip without rain. You stop riding and greaseyour chain and grabnot a cold beer. Greetings from Austria. And if Ducati puts a shaft on the MS V4S, I might buy a new bike again.
They definitely love the shaft. Talk about the shaft. Dream about shafts.
What makes me laugh BMW make a M Chain you don’t have to lube or tighten.
Also with a chain. You can change the gearing of the bike too.
What about belt drive?
Future video
the one downside to belt is having to remove the whole swingarm to replace. Yes, they are good for many miles but shit happens.
@@christophermlindsay True
A little biased? You bleed lube! I prefer belts, personally. But, when it’s chain vs shaft, you convinced me! Shafts all the way! 😜 but, I like cruisers. So it fits. After all, there’s only two styles of bike…cruisers and wasted-parts. 😎 course I’m joking. Chains do nothing for me, but for instant torque there’s electric. Which I just can’t get into at all. Enjoy! My safety tip: for best results, stop at the same time and the same place as your bike.
Fair enough!
This has zero objective observation. You don't love to hear comments IMO given how completely negative you were around shaft driven bikes. I've owned many of both and the 3rd, 4th and fifth best bikes I've owned were shaft drives. The BMW R1250 GSA, and two different Yamaha FJR 1300's. My best bikes have been the Ducati Multistrada Pikes Peak and the Rally. I traded the 2022 Pikes Peak for a Rally as I am not a track guy and wanted more off road ability. Check Tim's channel, FTA around his experience with his BMW before he got rid of it. Over 100,000 miles before significant maintenance on the shaft and that was with a lot of on and off road miles. How many chains do you go through in that time and how many cleanings at one every ~500 miles? I love my Ducati's but I prefer shafts for better long term reliability.
Presented with a significant anti-shaft bias in most regards, with a lack of objective reasoning for your choices. Been riding for over 20 years, all on BMW Paralever rear driven bikes. Output driveshaft of the boxer engine is in direct line with the shaft, so the engineering choice to use one seems obvious. BMW introduced the Paralever in 1988 and is has become a signature feature of all their opposed twins and Ks. It doesn't change length under acceleration, so handling is unaffected vs a chain-driven bike
The Pike's Peak is only 10 lbs lighter than my 535 lb R1250RS. If we really cared about weight, neither of us would have bought the heavyweight bikes we did. If we really cared about what cost more/less to maintain, we wouldn't have bought a Ducati or BMW. Yes, it's less efficient than a chain. but neither of us can legally or even safely use all of our bike's torque or power on public roads anyway, so does that matter? If we wanted faster and more performant bikes, we would have bought them.
So....what do I get in return? No ugly chain to look at or clean, no spinning wet chain that can toss gunk on me, a pillion, or the rest of my bike, and generally nothing I even have to think about for tens of thousands of miles at a time. I think the idea of a chain equalling rugged biker charm is ridiculous. The Darian Gap was crossed for the first time by any motorized vehicle, with a BMW R100GS, using a shaft drive. The most popular adv bike in the world, the R1200/1250GS, have shaft drives. When most people think of rugged adv bike, most people are thinking of that. I don' t think you even mentioned off-road use.
"The chain. It just makes more sense. That's it." But the case wasn't made for why that's so.
Would I not buy a bike just because it had chain vs shaft? No. Given everything else being equal, would I prefer chain or shaft for my main do-everything bike? Shaft. For a track bike? Chain -- and that's because I want everything as cheap and light as possible.
Excellent information. Thank you for sharing your opinion with the group.
My VMAX 1700 has a shaft drive, it will rip you off the bike when you punch it.
My friends GS shaft broke suddenly it’s dangerous also
Sure because chain snapping is not dangerous at all.....
Wild!
I’ve never ever heard of that happening. We all have the BMW shaft with a lot of miles and haven’t had one problem with the shafts!
They like the Big B Shaft
Where are you from? I like your voice
Braļuka!
Hahahahahaha, 4500 miles without having to adjust your chain! Try 30k plus miles and 30 years before doing anything other than changing the gear oil. And then it's only seals. I did it myself, cost like 50 bucks and a days work. Granted not everyone has the tools and knowledge to do it themselves but even so, count the hours and money that you spend on chain, sprockets maintenance and replacement and compare that to a one time, maybe if you own the bike long enough, shop cost of a final drive overhaul. What's your time worth? Ever own a rear wheel drive car? If so, when was the last time that you even thought about the differential? I'll bet dollars to donuts that you own a dodge/ford/chevy 4x4 and have never chained the gear oil in either diff. And I would be willing to bet that they have been care free and well over 4500 miles!
Spoken like someone whose never owned a shaft drive motorcycle.
There’s nothing wrong with the fact that you like the shaft better than the chain. It’s all personal preference.
Which sportscar do you know has chain drive? 😂
My mother's Kiniflin
Not interested in this, it's the owners choice like his choice of his or her motorcycle!
How do you enjoy your chain buddy ? common most of the statements you made about shaft driven motorcycles are pathetic , Makes me think if you have ever rode a shaft driven bike before ?
No one faults you for liking the shaft. Apparently it is a very touchy subject with you. If you like the shaft, you like the shaft and there is nothing wrong with you liking the shaft. I love my chain. I oil my chain, I clean my chain and every 4-5 thousand miles, I make a minor adjustment to my chain. I like the chain and you like the shaft. Different strokes for different folks. Thanks for stopping by and watching and taking the time to comment.
LOL 😂😂😂 rugged chain drive look as you mount a belt driven bike. Chains suck.
The Multi Strada should have shaft drive, all the other Ducati's should be chain. I like your content, but I have to 100% disagree on this. I would even say If the Rally was shaft that would be good enough for me. You could make a case for you Pikes Peak to keep the chain. The top selling adventure bike has shaft drive, and everyone will eventually follow. I have a 2023 GSA and if the Rally was out at the same time of purchase, I would have had a difficult time choosing between the 2. I would venture to guess that more GS/GSA's fall off the back of delivery trucks than Ducati sells Multi's. If you asked adventure riders what they prefer I think you would lose this argument pretty quickly.
Excellent points.
Hey Dave. I can share my first hand experience on this front. Last year I had both the 2022 Pikes Peak and a 2022 BMW R 1250 GSA. I went to Rawhyde in November as well to train on the GSA. Both great bikes but when the Rally was announced I put my name on the list immediately and traded in the Pikes Peak for the Rally. Zero regrets on that one as I don't do track days and if I did, I'd follow Reembo's approach and get a cheap track day bike like the KTM 390. Once I had the Rally, I donated the BMW to a local non-profit, CASA of Medford OR, as having that AND the Rally was redundant. I LOVE the Rally and it is in fact the only bike I ride in spite of having several others. Yes, I am blessed and have the resources to make choices like this. I 100% agree with you that a Rally with shaft would be the PERFECT bike. I've already put about 3,500 on the Rally and can't wait for the next road trip. I need the Enduro kit to show up so I can trust getting it off road though. Bikes go down off road. That and taxes are a fact of life. Happy riding!
@@mweingar Yeah I'm scared to test ride a Rally. I actually had a 2023 Triumph GT Explorer and put 2500 miles on it. I couldn't take the vibration any longer, so I dumped it and took a 9k loss on the Purchase of the GSA. I just finished paying 200k for the 1st kids college tuition and now I'm paying another 200k on #2. I don't think the wife would be too happy if I came home with one. I'm actually glad it doesn't have shaft drive as it gives me an excuse not to buy it lol. I love the power of the DUC and the BMW just doesn't have it, but I love the bike non the less.
@@davehemmerly8496 The GSA is still a great bike and I totally get where you are in life. Our youngest of 4 kids is in their early 30's so thankfully those days are past us. Granted we are building our retirement home in Rogue River Oregon and that's not cheap either. But I am at that point in life where I need to do these things or acknowledge that they will never happen. We get one chance at this life I hear.
@@mweingar Great information. Thanks for sharing.
This was a pointless video. You didn't answer the question, all you did was simp for chain drive. Try covering a topic with a open, NEUTRAL mind. Provide both sides of the argument. Otherwise it's not a video about "which is better" and just a opinion video.
I guess you did not watch the other video I did. This was a follow-up.
Sounds like you just like to bad mouth shaft drive.
I like all motorcycles.
Idk what old man talking about but my Suzuki gs850 has a quicker power delivery than any bike I’ve ever ridden I honestly try to be carful hitting the gas still cornering because it’ll snap so quick and start spinning love my shaft drive can’t beat it
Lmao dude tryna be a “cool biker” so bad he refuses to ride a chain drive even tho he probably never owned one
in·nu·en·do
/ˌinyəˈwendō/
noun
plural noun: innuendos
an allusive or oblique remark or hint, typically a suggestive or disparaging one.
😅
Chain is always better.
Lol yep