I'd suggest that the dealers are obligated to do what McLaren tell them to. ie the indies are not beholden to McLaren Factory in Woking so can do it differently without the risk of losing a multimillion pound franchise
Me as well...McLarens are brilliantly performing cars that look great, but their build quality and QC issues is troublesome. I know they're getting better at it, but it should be a priority #1.
It's a car designed for performance; it's light and fragile. It's also very expensive and owners can afford to keep them garaged and serviced regularly. It's not a Honda Jazz.
A seal goes bad and they replace the gear box?!? A spring cracks and they replace the whole shock because it's more convenient? They're ripping off customers.
In the Porsche PDK internal "distance sensors" can go bad and Porsche just replaces the gearbox instead of just fixing the sensor. Okay, I suppose, if you're under warranty but potentially financially life-altering if you have a pre-owned car out of warranty. Madness.
Most dealers employ one experienced mechanic that looks after numerous apprentices that are essentially 'parts change' mechanics with little knowledge and experience. As such, the majority of OEMs (sadly) apply the 'part replacement' philosophy because of risk. I know of a young mechanic that recently completed his apprenticeship and has never rebuilt any component - not even a simple brake master cylinder - just remove and replace to a 'drum beat'.
@@pkpropertysolutionsltd701 warranty claim involves the dealer claiming from the manufacturer. The manufacturer supplies the parts and the dealer charges the labour to fit the parts. Do you think the manufacturer wants to pay the dealer (likely around £150 per hour) for more labour or less labour? That suspension leg likely takes a third of the time to swap out than changing just the coil spring and quite likely a less skilled technician could be trusted to do it because no spring compressors (expensive/dangerous) are needed to change the complete leg. The old leg will go back to the manufacturer and if economically viable will be refurbished and sold as a recon part. Time is money.
The 12c and the 650 have aged so beautifully imo. And I think we’ll all regret not having bought one when we could have. A future cult classic for sure!
Funny to see this car again, I worked for McL-MSO from 2013 to '19 doing the CGI for all their motorshows and smaller rollouts, still have this car as a 3D CGI asset in my archive. Even in CGI 'volcano red' was a massive pain to get visually right. Happy days.
The very first 720s I looked at in a dealer had the lights moving like they were never attached properly. Never forgotten it. Seriously a heap of amazingly fast pommy heap of shit.
Great stuff Harry a very realistic overview of Mclaren ownership. The guys at V engineering are absolutely superb. What they don't know about Mclaren's isn't worth knowing, they totally de-mystify the whole Mclaren ownership proposition, making servicing & repair bills very sensible & none scary . I'd not go anywhere else having had a bad experience at the main dealers who tried to pull my pants down trying to have me replace items that didn't need replacing luckily I found them out before just accepting & swallowing the bill......The no B/S straight talking from Paul & Steve at V is a total breath of fresh air, highly recommended.
I’m in Canada, so a smaller market with little to no choice when it comes to servicing (always serviced at a McLaren dealer). I had a 720S, about 1700 in the building cycle and as Harry says, absolutely BALLISTIC! My “beef” was servicing and warranty costs - at 4,500 km - new accumulators $7,200!! Warranty after 3years was about $10k per year - oil change $1,600 new air filters $1,500 - I was always waiting for something to blow up! (Never did though). On a track day - the noise in the cockpit with windows up was almost unbearable - windows down seemed quieter? Considering I was driving 3k km per year - it just got too expensive - so I went back to a GT3 Touring (manual) - it’s not as fast but who needs Ballistic? Plus with the touring I fly under the radar - couldn’t do that in an Aztec Orange 720S - I was always being “accosted” or was always followed/being filmed! Ah.. finally life in the slow lane! But I do miss the 720S for the shear drama! That’s my experience!
What year and how many miles did you end up putting on it? I have a really good speciality shop that i take my amg’s into, and they’re always full of mclarens and rolls royce. I ask though because i am in the market for a 720s or the new amg gt63. Ive had a few mates in and out of a 720 in under a year but they all had early models.
The fact that you can lease a Porsche is such a no brainer, versus all the other stuff that you have to find out and you have to really shell out a lot of money if (when it) it goes wrong and it sounds like you actually got pretty lucky. For the 3000km a yr, and you got to go through the hassle of selling it yourself or auctioning it. This is the thing that turned me off of the lotus, no lease. I just don't want to get stuck with it at the end.
I've got a 2019 600LT with 120,000 kilometres on it. I bought it new. Daily driver to replace my Exige (never selling it! but it is less used now. It has 180,000 km on it). I haven't had that many issues - certainly not more than I had with german cars. I also have no choice other than the local dealer. I have just had a gearbox sensor and most recently an oil leak that will put me back 14k. Not great but for the price of the car and over 5 years, I don't think it is too bad. One of the reasons why I didn't go the 720 was the accumulator issue. It is a part that will need to be serviced and replaced at some time. But that is the cost of the "magic ride". I'm not really into luxury. Happy you got the GT3 touring. I'm sure it is excellent - but it won't drive like a Mclaren. But it's your car and if you enjoy it then that is all that matters. My 2c.
Whilst I appreciate that running a supercar like this is not a cheap exercise, the amount of things that need to be regularly replaced and fixed on a McLaren seems ludicrous. Broken springs, loose headlamps, body corrosion, come on, if any of that was needed on a modern budget car you’d be a tad cheesed off.
I'm impressed how you are so determined to scrutinize all details, and simply find out of all these things that goes wrong - then share it with the rest of us. Greetings from Norway.
Love it !!!! What a review,, love my 650s , had few issues , because I bought from a terrible dealer. Fixed all the issues now , mainly caused from poor maintenance from previous owner. Love the car and the brand and definitely want to keep.
I want the T33, it looks way better IMO! Also that Caterham project V when it becomes available
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@@was786loaded You are insanely lucky, enjoy it in good health!! I am in the US, i thought it was hilarious that when it did the press rounds in LA this past summer for the T.50, they wouldn't even let Jay Leno drive it (I'm sure for insurance reasons), but he is like the king of the McLaren F1, he should have gotten the chance to drive the true successor to it. Harry and Leno have a lot in common - both have great channels, garages, and opinions/knowledge on cars
The fact McLaren did not design, or have the supplier design, the accumulators to be refillable from the start is just insane to me. Business love to make out how green they are but when it comes down to it they do everything possible to consume as many raw materials as possible. Expecting owners to shell out £1500 for a suspension recommission every 3 to 4 years is absurd. Also not entirely convinced a 12v lithium battery costs £1800 either...
Cost me just under £1000 for all 4, there are cheaper aftermarket refillable ones out there too. I replaced them myself. No rockets or scientists needed. These cars are falling into the hands of DIY enthusiasts and there is a wealth of knowledge being built up and a growing list of equivalent replacement parts. For example the ignition coils are just a standard Nissan part.
McLaren corrosion issues on bodywork for such expensive cars seems crazy. But their 10 year body work protection warranty should help ease most new car buyers concerns. Harry is without a doubt the best car reviewer anywhere, the TV, internet, magazines, anywhere.. His professionalism, knowledge of cars , mannerism, and well spoken easily understood narration are just pure car reviewing perfection. Just an all round amazing guy and like many before me, I will sing his praises. He is the best there is, and we all love him...I hope he realises that.
Want a car you can drive in the winter and leave parked on the street and not bother servicing it that often? Buy a Honda Jazz or some other mass produced economy vehicle. No one buys a super or hypercar expecting reliability or corrosion resistance etc. You want maximum performance and something you can drive around and show off. Very different things.
Nice. I did 500kms in my 675 yesterday and still love it after all this time. Your explanation of the engine inertia was enlightening and helped me to understand why I felt there was a bit of "run on", throttle off on the way into corners. Thank you and keep your videos coming as they are the highlight of the day when they pop up.
675LT's use the lighter rotating components (crank, rods, pistons) as the 540/570 series so have less inertia than the 12C/650 and are able to downshift quicker. The downside is they're not as strong so you see more bottom end problems, in particular bent rods on "tuned" cars running extra boost.
Timeless rust bubbles and timeless gaffer-tape on the windscreen. I'll stick to my 10-yr old Toyota extate thanks. Built like a tank, sails through every MoT and no issues whatsoever. And an annual service costs a fraction of Harry's.
Another great video sir. Best move I’ve made moving to our 570s even if we had some corrosion that was fixed under warranty as the car was under five years old at the time. Oh, and when the door hinges failed we got 70% of the cost on a goodwill gesture from McLaren. V Engineering are amazing and like you say know these inside out. ❤
Interesting (possibly reassuring?) that while Harry's older cars tend to be continental, his newest cars are English - Jaguar, Lotus (now sold), Range Rover, and McLaren. I understand that Harry has involvement with some of these companies to a degree, but that appears to be genuine interest and appreciation of the product. It's good to see that UK marques are still capable of creating genuinely interesting and competitive cars.
@@NextDoorGuy Yes, they're all owned by companies outside the UK but the design development and construction are mainly happening here. We're perhaps not great at running companies in the UK but the engineering and design are still innovative and strong.
Love an ownership update video Harry. It’s very much to the heart of what your channel - the Garage - is all about. And the Macca seems like a goodun’ !
So glad you are still enjoying it, they are amazing cars. Just had my 675LT serviced at V a few days after you. I'm 5 years and 16k miles into my ownership with not a single issue, and service costs the same (or cheaper) than Audi / BMW. It even costs less to insure than my Boxster! Never selling mine there is nothing comes close in terms of performance, handling, economy (40mpg on m-way), reliability, and quility. And they are British and look stunning.
Guys, get with the program. There are lots of people in the comments who've never owned a supercar who are very upset about McLaren build quality. For the supercar they'll never own, they want the simplicity, reliability and low service costs of a Japanese econobox. Please stop supplying real-world reviews that challenge this narrative!
Harry, the quality of this channel is such that before you've completed the formalities of opening up the video I have already pressed the like button. Exceptional channel and always soo informative. McLaren have taken a hammering for quality of their cars and we are soo grateful for Thorney and V Engineering doing what they do. Supreme value for the performance and I am a fan! Please do give us more McLaren content! 🙂
Greetings from downunder in Oz - love your videos Harry, very easy to support your channel. Amazed the Countach vid was so low on the list - loved that vid & the emotional connection to Ferrucio. As a 911 owner, really hope you get to enjoy your turbo in 2025.
As a happy owner of a 2020 Corvette Stingray I am always shocked at the maintenance costs and issues that other Supercars have. I have spent less than Cdn$1000 on maintenance over the past 4 years. I would love to see Harry test the Stingray.
Fascinating evaluation of the costs of ownership. I can't believe how much it cost to buy and run, and that you get corrosion guaranteed. It is incredible how everything wears out or breaks regularly, it is an amazing that it keeps on the road. It makes an Alfa seem like a Toyota. I am pleased I can't afford one, though. My wifes 15-year-old Picanto doesn't have any corrosion, never goes wrong, and it cost less to buy than half a year's warranty for the McLaren. I feel very happy. So pleased you like yours. Thanks, Harry.
does your wife's Picanto pack 650bhp and weigh hundreds of pounds less than the next econobox? Did you overlook the fact that a 650 costs half what a 488 costs and that car has more problems and lower levels of sophistication. If you're going to moan about accumulators, be sure to moan about your tyres wearing out too - assuming you want to be fair and balanced. Personally I've never bothered with the warranty: my average unscheduled maintenance bill over 8.5 years of 650 ownership has been $1000 per year (half of that caused by dampness in the garage during the early part of its time with me). A fabulous car.
Thank you Harry for another spot on video of… something most of us enjoy watching but may not experience. I hope and pray one day I can get my feet deep into automotive experiences you experience. Thank you sir!
Absolutely delighted that you're not only enjoying it - but that it's making sense: tbh, most of us have paid well over a grand for annual servicing of much humbler equipment. Always nice to have your decisions confirmed as correct - and I say that as a confirmed Elan/Elise driver. Happy Christmas!
Recently did a track day in a Ferrari 458, my dream car for years after driving a new one. However, the 570s literally blew it away. Amazing car, just buy it from a dealer with 12 months warranty
Superb content Harry! While the world is going mad, you keep it honest, sensible and on a level ❤
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That's great that he listens to the Chris Harris and friends podcast at the 17:44 mark. I forget that Chris used to work for Harry way back in the day at Evo
The volcano red 650 coupe shown was my car, should never have sold it. Have a 675, which I’d never sell. Running it using V is cheaper than running my wife’s Macan Turbo - and it’s more fuel efficient. For what they are, they are cheap to run. The problems really aren’t bad, easily addressable and getting better over time - like the refillable accumulators.
In the main people seem to like nonsense like car wow, just shouting and go up and down a runway. Like eating a cheap hamburger, rather than enjoying a fine steak.
If they could persuade Harry to join Chris Harris and Clarkson and launch Top Gear again, they’d clean up. Nobody talking unfunny bollocks and shouting , drop car football etc , and the audience figures would be amazing
Thanks for sharing those thoughts on why this stays in your garage. This is such good information you’re sharing on your thought process for why you chose this model and why McLaren.
Great update, thanks Harry. Solidifies the 650S at the top of my wish-list, but it may remain a bit out of reach, we'll see… this video wouldn’t have helped residuals as a buyer! 😆 & agree satin grey wheels for the win 👌
I loved my maclaren gt , sold it earlier this year kept thinking the bills will keep coming so changed it for a ultimate Rs chassis 0001 , wanted something more raw and easy to look after , it does that for sure absolutely loving it .
From a lithium battery wear perspective, they are best charged to no more than 80% which ensures a longer life. This is applicable to all lithium batteries, and minimises the creation of dendrite growth. I mention this, if you keep it changed with a battery tender when not in use. Sometimes this can be set on the software or firmware.
Brilliant review Harry & after tons of research and a few recommendations this is definitely my next purchase. This is coming out of my daily RS6 C8. To my mind it is Staggering value, with fantastic race engineering and stunning looks. Visiting Maclaren Leeds next week could be an expensive trip 😊.
It seems to me that McLaren have got right what's important for a real fast car. It drives on rails, light weight, and plenty of power. They got that right with the original MP4-12C. In the hands of a good driver it should make epic progress.
650S: gearbox detonated through the casing on a spirited drive, momentarily locking back wheels, main bearing failure. Shrapnel damaged a few other things on the way out… - repeated rear spoiler fault where it went vertical and stayed there 720S - two new doors due to laminate failure - delivered from new with 3 warning lights (parking sensor and ignition related) and fault that would cut engine at low speed - traps water and dirt in stupid places, nightmare to wash - loved both cars still 😂, nothing drives quite like them. I had roof down or little window down on the 650 all the time, winter with the heaters blasting, magic
There is nothing nicer for an owner when a product delivers on many levels. Cars, bikes, music, etc. I love the fact that Harry is still chuffed to bitz. Good on you Harry :-) Bw from the Forest of Blackness. Mike
Thanks Harry I think you are swaying me away from 12C to 650S. Please let us know if the history has any of the usual issues cooling leaks, front suspension bushes, cracked door hinges, water pump, cam phasers, power steering pump, timing chain clatter, tail light issues etc.
I didn’t live that far away from a dealership when they released the 12c, and every one I used to follow down the road had enough water in the rear light cluster to support swimming fish.
So interesting to hear about the servicing details and how that McLaren dealers lack the finer repair skiills of specialists in some areas. Harry, you made a great choice, worry not!
I’m not sure dealers trying to sell used mclarens are going to thankyou for that one Harry 🤣 The first 10 minutes explained the whole reason people steer clear and why they are that much cheaper than an equivalent Ferrari or similar. I wouldn’t expect body corrosion on a 10 year old Fiesta let alone this thing so to say it’s good value when factoring in the costs of running the thing I find a little conflicting but that said I’d agree it looks great and honest content as usual.
It's good value because, as Harry explained, it's half the price of the equivalent Ferrari and because, again, as Harry explained, the running costs are very reasonable. I would rather have a cheap to fix bit of corrosion than live with the chassis flex of an open 488. So I'm going with his opinion rather than yours.
Thanks for the update on your McLaren. I would definitely get the lead acid battery, it seems more feasible than the lithium ion battery. Keep up the good work Harry.
Exceptionally interesting and informative video - many thanks Harry. Great insight into the detail of issues/maintenance/ various solutions. Precisely the sort of detail which is hard to find as a potential owner. Great stuff.
Wonderful informative, honest delivery Harry. Truly enjoy the manner in which you convey your opinion on your wonderful machines. No one comes close to you when it comes to personal perspectives. I really like how enthused you are while informing us. What a wonderful choice and machine to have to enjoy in your armoury. Again thank you I really enjoyed this 650s piece of film.
Excellent long term review. Baffling that dealers replace a gearbox for the failure of a seal etc. Those 'boxes must get re-used in other cars but the customer must be paying high prices for that business model. McLarens are very lovely cars.
It’s not just baffling, it’s bloody insane and daylight robbery. If they shared that fact when you were thinking about buying one you’d run a mile . A gearbox must be well over £25k ?
Don't think I'm ever getting in the position to buy one,but having the information on them is useful and very interesting,, nice to see and hear that you are happy with the purchase, general pleasure of owning such an iconic vehicle,☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️ from northern Ireland
I have a Hyundai i30 2011 here in Sweden, and drive it about 50,000km every year on salty roads and I don't wash it regularly, last time I did was February 2023, almost two years ago and it has no corrosion.
@vika0194 because it's not worth the cleaning. I clean, spend time and money, once I hit the road, it's filthy, again, so better not to do it. Roads in Sweden once wet, they make this black sticky thing that sticks on the car, it's not mud, it's a black mixture, rubber+brake pads dust, when wet, it sticks like glue.
@@huss1205 du behöver inte förklara hur svenska vägar är. Du ser ju att jag är svensk på kommentaren. Ditt argument visar bara att du inte tar hand om bilen.
@@vika0194 I wake up at 6, drive to work at before 7, 115km to work, then at the office till maybe 16:30 or 17:00, drive back home, another 115km, home just before 19:00, and you expect me to clean a car in the cold, in the street, in the dark?
@@huss1205 så det är kallt och mörkt sedan februari 2023 alltså. Väldigt trovärdigt. Du bryr dig inte om din bil för du är lat. Svårare än så är det inte.
my car has a lady in it that says you're over the speed limit also. And that you're driving too close; and warns you when you've been at the pub for too long among lots of other useful petty reminders!
After watching Tavarish talking about the insane cost of P1 parts and dealership labor on his channel, those service-costs at the shop Harry went to seem downright reasonable! Also, it is nice to see things getting repaired rather that replacing components.
Fabulously enjoyable video to watch as always Harry. Watched with my daughter after a 250mile drive home from the dealer together in her first car! A Skoda Fabia. She's a petrolhead like me and loves coming out in my kitcar. One day she aspires to a car like your McLaren!
Got a 7yr old 570s done 4500 miles in it in a year…only issue I’ve had is needed a new battery…if you get it inspected before purchase they aren’t as bad as everyone makes out..in my experience anyway..
I’m a Hokey Pokey type McLaren buyer. I have one foot in and one foot out. I’ve owned 6 911s including 3GT3s but they’re so expensive I went to Lamborghini. But I’m thinking of McLaren because they’ve become so affordable. But still I’m scared
It is beautiful, Harry, the shape alone is a stand-out feature, with the colour adding a lot to it. You have also done very well in your choice, as you have explained.
I love the fact that specialists actually fix things, rather than just replacing.
yep
Dealers make biggest profits from parts, then workshop labour charges, so they invariably replace parts
I'd suggest that the dealers are obligated to do what McLaren tell them to. ie the indies are not beholden to McLaren Factory in Woking so can do it differently without the risk of losing a multimillion pound franchise
English specialists had a lot of practice with their car and bike industry, They are really good
one is a fitter, the other is a Mechanic.😁👍
That wheelwell corrosion would drive me crazy.
You can't unsee it as the owner.
A bit like my mother-in-law
She is rusting?@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne
@@Enzo_Gorlomi Hopefully.
Me as well...McLarens are brilliantly performing cars that look great, but their build quality and QC issues is troublesome. I know they're getting better at it, but it should be a priority #1.
It's a car designed for performance; it's light and fragile. It's also very expensive and owners can afford to keep them garaged and serviced regularly. It's not a Honda Jazz.
A seal goes bad and they replace the gear box?!? A spring cracks and they replace the whole shock because it's more convenient? They're ripping off customers.
They do the same when the car is under warranty, nobody complains until they have to pay it themselves.
In the Porsche PDK internal "distance sensors" can go bad and Porsche just replaces the gearbox instead of just fixing the sensor. Okay, I suppose, if you're under warranty but potentially financially life-altering if you have a pre-owned car out of warranty. Madness.
Who
Most dealers employ one experienced mechanic that looks after numerous apprentices that are essentially 'parts change' mechanics with little knowledge and experience. As such, the majority of OEMs (sadly) apply the 'part replacement' philosophy because of risk. I know of a young mechanic that recently completed his apprenticeship and has never rebuilt any component - not even a simple brake master cylinder - just remove and replace to a 'drum beat'.
@@pkpropertysolutionsltd701 warranty claim involves the dealer claiming from the manufacturer. The manufacturer supplies the parts and the dealer charges the labour to fit the parts. Do you think the manufacturer wants to pay the dealer (likely around £150 per hour) for more labour or less labour? That suspension leg likely takes a third of the time to swap out than changing just the coil spring and quite likely a less skilled technician could be trusted to do it because no spring compressors (expensive/dangerous) are needed to change the complete leg. The old leg will go back to the manufacturer and if economically viable will be refurbished and sold as a recon part.
Time is money.
10 year old car, wow! In my head this is like 2-3 years old! Still looks ultra modern.
Most cars from 2014 and on will look modern.
That's because all McLarens look the same
@@lptomtom did he say modern compared to other McLaren’s? No.
The 12c and the 650 have aged so beautifully imo. And I think we’ll all regret not having bought one when we could have. A future cult classic for sure!
The rear end looks dates compared to the more curvy updated rear end on McLarens.
Funny to see this car again, I worked for McL-MSO from 2013 to '19 doing the CGI for all their motorshows and smaller rollouts, still have this car as a 3D CGI asset in my archive. Even in CGI 'volcano red' was a massive pain to get visually right. Happy days.
Apart from the corrosion, wobbly lights and glued down windscreen, it’s alright 😂
Fab reviews as always Harry!!
The very first 720s I looked at in a dealer had the lights moving like they were never attached properly. Never forgotten it. Seriously a heap of amazingly fast pommy heap of shit.
And this is the "sorted" model 😅 Pretty clear why McLaren got the bad reputation on reliability.
Yeah and don't forget the suspension needing rebuilt. Great car but quality actually seems to be pretty bad on these
Harry seems remarkably tolerant of these faults 😲😲
Great stuff Harry a very realistic overview of Mclaren ownership. The guys at V engineering are absolutely superb. What they don't know about Mclaren's isn't worth knowing, they totally de-mystify the whole Mclaren ownership proposition, making servicing & repair bills very sensible & none scary . I'd not go anywhere else having had a bad experience at the main dealers who tried to pull my pants down trying to have me replace items that didn't need replacing luckily I found them out before just accepting & swallowing the bill......The no B/S straight talking from Paul & Steve at V is a total breath of fresh air, highly recommended.
Thanks. Nothing better then hearing from the bloke that has had the actual experience.
I’m in Canada, so a smaller market with little to no choice when it comes to servicing (always serviced at a McLaren dealer). I had a 720S, about 1700 in the building cycle and as Harry says, absolutely BALLISTIC! My “beef” was servicing and warranty costs - at 4,500 km - new accumulators $7,200!! Warranty after 3years was about $10k per year - oil change $1,600 new air filters $1,500 - I was always waiting for something to blow up! (Never did though). On a track day - the noise in the cockpit with windows up was almost unbearable - windows down seemed quieter? Considering I was driving 3k km per year - it just got too expensive - so I went back to a GT3 Touring (manual) - it’s not as fast but who needs Ballistic? Plus with the touring I fly under the radar - couldn’t do that in an Aztec Orange 720S - I was always being “accosted” or was always followed/being filmed! Ah.. finally life in the slow lane! But I do miss the 720S for the shear drama! That’s my experience!
What year and how many miles did you end up putting on it? I have a really good speciality shop that i take my amg’s into, and they’re always full of mclarens and rolls royce. I ask though because i am in the market for a 720s or the new amg gt63. Ive had a few mates in and out of a 720 in under a year but they all had early models.
@ the car was sold last spring to a guy in Halifax! For service he intends to ship it to Toronto - at a cost of $3,600 round trip!!??
The fact that you can lease a Porsche is such a no brainer, versus all the other stuff that you have to find out and you have to really shell out a lot of money if (when it) it goes wrong and it sounds like you actually got pretty lucky. For the 3000km a yr, and you got to go through the hassle of selling it yourself or auctioning it. This is the thing that turned me off of the lotus, no lease. I just don't want to get stuck with it at the end.
I've got a 2019 600LT with 120,000 kilometres on it. I bought it new. Daily driver to replace my Exige (never selling it! but it is less used now. It has 180,000 km on it). I haven't had that many issues - certainly not more than I had with german cars. I also have no choice other than the local dealer. I have just had a gearbox sensor and most recently an oil leak that will put me back 14k. Not great but for the price of the car and over 5 years, I don't think it is too bad.
One of the reasons why I didn't go the 720 was the accumulator issue. It is a part that will need to be serviced and replaced at some time. But that is the cost of the "magic ride". I'm not really into luxury.
Happy you got the GT3 touring. I'm sure it is excellent - but it won't drive like a Mclaren. But it's your car and if you enjoy it then that is all that matters.
My 2c.
@ wow that is extremely impressive! 14k for 5yrs of service is not that bad
Whilst I appreciate that running a supercar like this is not a cheap exercise, the amount of things that need to be regularly replaced and fixed on a McLaren seems ludicrous. Broken springs, loose headlamps, body corrosion, come on, if any of that was needed on a modern budget car you’d be a tad cheesed off.
Feels like a lot of excusing going on throughout the video. Adding in drafts whilst driving, other cars have been slated for less.
Thanks for putting all of the production numbers on the screen at once. It makes it much easier for me to see the differences.
I'm impressed how you are so determined to scrutinize all details, and simply find out of all these things that goes wrong - then share it with the rest of us. Greetings from Norway.
Love it !!!! What a review,, love my 650s , had few issues , because I bought from a terrible dealer. Fixed all the issues now , mainly caused from poor maintenance from previous owner. Love the car and the brand and definitely want to keep.
I hope we will get a GMA T50 reveiw one of these days .I love this channel ❤
😍
I want the T33, it looks way better IMO!
Also that Caterham project V when it becomes available
@@was786loaded You are insanely lucky, enjoy it in good health!! I am in the US, i thought it was hilarious that when it did the press rounds in LA this past summer for the T.50, they wouldn't even let Jay Leno drive it (I'm sure for insurance reasons), but he is like the king of the McLaren F1, he should have gotten the chance to drive the true successor to it. Harry and Leno have a lot in common - both have great channels, garages, and opinions/knowledge on cars
@@bttawfiqagreed T33 is far better looking. Not keen on the T50.
Nice balanced overview. Agree on the roadster version - adds so much to the experience in any car let alone a 650S!
I listen to Chris Harris podcast and watch your videos every week!
The fact McLaren did not design, or have the supplier design, the accumulators to be refillable from the start is just insane to me. Business love to make out how green they are but when it comes down to it they do everything possible to consume as many raw materials as possible.
Expecting owners to shell out £1500 for a suspension recommission every 3 to 4 years is absurd.
Also not entirely convinced a 12v lithium battery costs £1800 either...
they look identical to ABS accumulators - which even the non serviceable ones can be recharged for about £60
Totally agree absolutely disgusting
Planned obscellence, good way to make a mint replacing the whole thing at their service centres.
Cost me just under £1000 for all 4, there are cheaper aftermarket refillable ones out there too. I replaced them myself. No rockets or scientists needed. These cars are falling into the hands of DIY enthusiasts and there is a wealth of knowledge being built up and a growing list of equivalent replacement parts. For example the ignition coils are just a standard Nissan part.
Yes, OEM lithium batteries are that much. $2K on a 911. There are some aftermarket options for ~$1K but still.
Holds up so damn well ten years later, still looks incredible and isn't dated yet imo
McLaren corrosion issues on bodywork for such expensive cars seems crazy. But their 10 year body work protection warranty should help ease most new car buyers concerns. Harry is without a doubt the best car reviewer anywhere, the TV, internet, magazines, anywhere.. His professionalism, knowledge of cars , mannerism, and well spoken easily understood narration are just pure car reviewing perfection. Just an all round amazing guy and like many before me, I will sing his praises. He is the best there is, and we all love him...I hope he realises that.
Haven't McLaren now dropped the corrosion warranty to 5 years??? And being problematic about honouring the ten year one?
Are you an AI?
Harry will make excuses for it because it's English
@@forzanerazzurri2339 If it was German he’d go ballistic over duct taping the windscreen too. It’s why I take all his reviews with a pinch of salt.
Want a car you can drive in the winter and leave parked on the street and not bother servicing it that often? Buy a Honda Jazz or some other mass produced economy vehicle. No one buys a super or hypercar expecting reliability or corrosion resistance etc. You want maximum performance and something you can drive around and show off. Very different things.
Just had my r8 resprayed had a few areas corrosion all alluminum cars suffer unfortunately but now looks brand new love it
Love that Harry listens to the Chris Harris podcast 🎉
Nice. I did 500kms in my 675 yesterday and still love it after all this time. Your explanation of the engine inertia was enlightening and helped me to understand why I felt there was a bit of "run on", throttle off on the way into corners. Thank you and keep your videos coming as they are the highlight of the day when they pop up.
675LT's use the lighter rotating components (crank, rods, pistons) as the 540/570 series so have less inertia than the 12C/650 and are able to downshift quicker. The downside is they're not as strong so you see more bottom end problems, in particular bent rods on "tuned" cars running extra boost.
Hard to believe its 10 years old car. What a timeless design!
Only because they design all their cars the same! 😂
I think the McLaren design language has a lot to do with that. A new 765 looks like the P1
Timeless rust bubbles and timeless gaffer-tape on the windscreen. I'll stick to my 10-yr old Toyota extate thanks. Built like a tank, sails through every MoT and no issues whatsoever. And an annual service costs a fraction of Harry's.
Another great video sir. Best move I’ve made moving to our 570s even if we had some corrosion that was fixed under warranty as the car was under five years old at the time. Oh, and when the door hinges failed we got 70% of the cost on a goodwill gesture from McLaren. V Engineering are amazing and like you say know these inside out. ❤
Interesting (possibly reassuring?) that while Harry's older cars tend to be continental, his newest cars are English - Jaguar, Lotus (now sold), Range Rover, and McLaren. I understand that Harry has involvement with some of these companies to a degree, but that appears to be genuine interest and appreciation of the product. It's good to see that UK marques are still capable of creating genuinely interesting and competitive cars.
McLaren now sold to Abu Dhabi
Seems to me that hes buying indian, chinese and middle east cars, unless the badge is what youre talking about
@@NextDoorGuy Yes, they're all owned by companies outside the UK but the design development and construction are mainly happening here. We're perhaps not great at running companies in the UK but the engineering and design are still innovative and strong.
Love an ownership update video Harry. It’s very much to the heart of what your channel - the Garage - is all about. And the Macca seems like a goodun’ !
So glad you are still enjoying it, they are amazing cars. Just had my 675LT serviced at V a few days after you. I'm 5 years and 16k miles into my ownership with not a single issue, and service costs the same (or cheaper) than Audi / BMW. It even costs less to insure than my Boxster! Never selling mine there is nothing comes close in terms of performance, handling, economy (40mpg on m-way), reliability, and quility. And they are British and look stunning.
I've been absolutely blown away by how cheap my 570S is to run. Costs considerably less than my M2 competition. Way more comfortable to drive too 😅
Guys, get with the program. There are lots of people in the comments who've never owned a supercar who are very upset about McLaren build quality. For the supercar they'll never own, they want the simplicity, reliability and low service costs of a Japanese econobox. Please stop supplying real-world reviews that challenge this narrative!
@@raytrace2014 🤣🤣🤣
Feel exactly the same about my 12c. Never being replaced!
I was so taken with the McLaren rear window feature, I'm thinking about having the glass removed from the tailgate of my Fiesta 🤣
Harry, the quality of this channel is such that before you've completed the formalities of opening up the video I have already pressed the like button. Exceptional channel and always soo informative. McLaren have taken a hammering for quality of their cars and we are soo grateful for Thorney and V Engineering doing what they do. Supreme value for the performance and I am a fan! Please do give us more McLaren content! 🙂
A fantastic update Harry, you really were in top form.
Greetings from downunder in Oz - love your videos Harry, very easy to support your channel. Amazed the Countach vid was so low on the list - loved that vid & the emotional connection to Ferrucio. As a 911 owner, really hope you get to enjoy your turbo in 2025.
Il never be able to own something like this so it's cool to get a behind the scenes look at the service etc thanks harry
Wonderful timing - roast dinner in the oven, Harry’s garage - Sunday finished to perfection 👍🏼
Yorkshire puddings? I’m a lamb man with rosemary and garlic. Bisto gravy, or home made?
Delicious 😂
As a happy owner of a 2020 Corvette Stingray I am always shocked at the maintenance costs and issues that other Supercars have. I have spent less than Cdn$1000 on maintenance over the past 4 years. I would love to see Harry test the Stingray.
Happy Sunday everyone- Enjoy Harry’s garage 👋
That rear window is a nice trick 👌
You definitely picked the best colour. It’s beautiful and different colours in different light. Stunning Mr M!!
Congratulations Harry, you seem well pleased for sure!
650S and 675LT are 2 wonderful cars. Will be absolute classics for years to come.
Corrosion on a 10 year old car? Totally unacceptable, in my opinion.
It is manufactured in Britain. They make the most shoddy unreliable vehicles in the world. Always did.
it's a 2014
@@paddymuppyever seen the underneath of a Japanese car / pickup after a single winter in the USA in a northeastern state?
@@paddymuppyAll cars have issues, there’s plenty of shit German and Japanese cars with issues. Generally McLaren’s are good cars.
Uk roads are salted in the winter, it isnt a daily driver, better protection would add weight. It’s a ten year old car.
Fascinating evaluation of the costs of ownership. I can't believe how much it cost to buy and run, and that you get corrosion guaranteed. It is incredible how everything wears out or breaks regularly, it is an amazing that it keeps on the road. It makes an Alfa seem like a Toyota. I am pleased I can't afford one, though. My wifes 15-year-old Picanto doesn't have any corrosion, never goes wrong, and it cost less to buy than half a year's warranty for the McLaren. I feel very happy. So pleased you like yours. Thanks, Harry.
does your wife's Picanto pack 650bhp and weigh hundreds of pounds less than the next econobox? Did you overlook the fact that a 650 costs half what a 488 costs and that car has more problems and lower levels of sophistication. If you're going to moan about accumulators, be sure to moan about your tyres wearing out too - assuming you want to be fair and balanced. Personally I've never bothered with the warranty: my average unscheduled maintenance bill over 8.5 years of 650 ownership has been $1000 per year (half of that caused by dampness in the garage during the early part of its time with me). A fabulous car.
Thank you Harry for another spot on video of… something most of us enjoy watching but may not experience. I hope and pray one day I can get my feet deep into automotive experiences you experience. Thank you sir!
Absolutely delighted that you're not only enjoying it - but that it's making sense: tbh, most of us have paid well over a grand for annual servicing of much humbler equipment. Always nice to have your decisions confirmed as correct - and I say that as a confirmed Elan/Elise driver. Happy Christmas!
Recently did a track day in a Ferrari 458, my dream car for years after driving a new one. However, the 570s literally blew it away. Amazing car, just buy it from a dealer with 12 months warranty
Superb content Harry! While the world is going mad, you keep it honest, sensible and on a level ❤
That's great that he listens to the Chris Harris and friends podcast at the 17:44 mark. I forget that Chris used to work for Harry way back in the day at Evo
My favorite feature on BMW 6series E64 is the small window in the back. Harry described it perfectly...
The volcano red 650 coupe shown was my car, should never have sold it. Have a 675, which I’d never sell. Running it using V is cheaper than running my wife’s Macan Turbo - and it’s more fuel efficient. For what they are, they are cheap to run. The problems really aren’t bad, easily addressable and getting better over time - like the refillable accumulators.
Merry Christmas Harry. I'm looking forward to seeing more dream car reviews next year.
I’m baffled at how with such high quality content that Harry only has just under 800k subscribers.
In the main people seem to like nonsense like car wow, just shouting and go up and down a runway. Like eating a cheap hamburger, rather than enjoying a fine steak.
If they could persuade Harry to join Chris Harris and Clarkson and launch Top Gear again, they’d clean up. Nobody talking unfunny bollocks and shouting , drop car football etc , and the audience figures would be amazing
@@kevincockburn7805agree… carwow- a CAR Channel that never show the speed of the cars Racing… pisses me off…
Because the vast majority of people aren’t interested in cars.
He's pretty much the best. Lots of experience, spot-on commentary, straight to the subject, genuine, humble personality.
Great to see you're obviously really enjoying your 650S.
The McLaren special operations badge is cool to me considering the history
Thanks for sharing those thoughts on why this stays in your garage. This is such good information you’re sharing on your thought process for why you chose this model and why McLaren.
Great update, thanks Harry. Solidifies the 650S at the top of my wish-list, but it may remain a bit out of reach, we'll see… this video wouldn’t have helped residuals as a buyer! 😆 & agree satin grey wheels for the win 👌
I loved my maclaren gt , sold it earlier this year kept thinking the bills will keep coming so changed it for a ultimate Rs chassis 0001 , wanted something more raw and easy to look after , it does that for sure absolutely loving it .
From a lithium battery wear perspective, they are best charged to no more than 80% which ensures a longer life. This is applicable to all lithium batteries, and minimises the creation of dendrite growth. I mention this, if you keep it changed with a battery tender when not in use. Sometimes this can be set on the software or firmware.
His is Lifium though, so it may be different. I don't know, as I have never heard of Lifium batteries before.
Good and honest updates!
Really appreciate the thorough feedback.
Thanks, Harry!
Love the look of the 12c, think i prefer it to the later cars
Absolutely agreed and as an aside the last build 12Cs were every bit as good. Low mileage well kept 12Cs are increasing in value.
@@sugerbear586 looks like a Tesla. Generic and electric.
ditto !
Brilliant review Harry & after tons of research and a few recommendations this is definitely my next purchase. This is coming out of my daily RS6 C8. To my mind it is Staggering value, with fantastic race engineering and stunning looks. Visiting Maclaren Leeds next week could be an expensive trip 😊.
It seems to me that McLaren have got right what's important for a real fast car. It drives on rails, light weight, and plenty of power. They got that right with the original MP4-12C. In the hands of a good driver it should make epic progress.
Merry Christmas Harry, you are the Messiah :)
Cheeky plug for Chris harris podcast 😅
Interesting update on the maclaren, thanks for sharing
650S: gearbox detonated through the casing on a spirited drive, momentarily locking back wheels, main bearing failure. Shrapnel damaged a few other things on the way out…
- repeated rear spoiler fault where it went vertical and stayed there
720S - two new doors due to laminate failure
- delivered from new with 3 warning lights (parking sensor and ignition related) and fault that would cut engine at low speed
- traps water and dirt in stupid places, nightmare to wash
- loved both cars still 😂, nothing drives quite like them. I had roof down or little window down on the 650 all the time, winter with the heaters blasting, magic
While i wont ever afford one or fit in one ,i do agree on getting the hard top convertible is the smart buy.
Harry is the best. Driving around the Cotswolds is the best place to enjoy his cars. Love it.
Thank you Harry.
Yaay! Harry on: Weekend complete! 👍🏻
There is nothing nicer for an owner when a product delivers on many levels. Cars, bikes, music, etc. I love the fact that Harry is still chuffed to bitz. Good on you Harry :-) Bw from the Forest of Blackness. Mike
“Renew engine Intake Sound Generator (ISG)“ every 2 years - LOL!
A shrewd choice Harry, many happy miles to come
Thanks Harry I think you are swaying me away from 12C to 650S. Please let us know if the history has any of the usual issues cooling leaks, front suspension bushes, cracked door hinges, water pump, cam phasers, power steering pump, timing chain clatter, tail light issues etc.
I didn’t live that far away from a dealership when they released the 12c, and every one I used to follow down the road had enough water in the rear light cluster to support swimming fish.
So interesting to hear about the servicing details and how that McLaren dealers lack the finer repair skiills of specialists in some areas. Harry, you made a great choice, worry not!
I’m not sure dealers trying to sell used mclarens are going to thankyou for that one Harry 🤣 The first 10 minutes explained the whole reason people steer clear and why they are that much cheaper than an equivalent Ferrari or similar. I wouldn’t expect body corrosion on a 10 year old Fiesta let alone this thing so to say it’s good value when factoring in the costs of running the thing I find a little conflicting but that said I’d agree it looks great and honest content as usual.
It's good value because, as Harry explained, it's half the price of the equivalent Ferrari and because, again, as Harry explained, the running costs are very reasonable. I would rather have a cheap to fix bit of corrosion than live with the chassis flex of an open 488. So I'm going with his opinion rather than yours.
@@64Alvisyou are very welcome to do so
Brilliant motoring journalism as usual. Always entertaining. Quality!
Thanks for the update on your McLaren. I would definitely get the lead acid battery, it seems more feasible than the lithium ion battery. Keep up the good work Harry.
Exceptionally interesting and informative video - many thanks Harry. Great insight into the detail of issues/maintenance/ various solutions. Precisely the sort of detail which is hard to find as a potential owner. Great stuff.
I think the problem with the accumulators is the membrane more than pressure drop. Once the membrane goes the accumulators need to be replaced.
And all the bits of membrane travel through the hydraulics then you really have problem,
Wonderful informative, honest delivery Harry. Truly enjoy the manner in which you convey your opinion on your wonderful machines. No one comes close to you when it comes to personal perspectives. I really like how enthused you are while informing us. What a wonderful choice and machine to have to enjoy in your armoury. Again thank you I really enjoyed this 650s piece of film.
The King of Automotive UA-cam.
Harry thanks for taking us in the inside of used McLaren ownership, 😊
Surprised to see oxidation on such a premium car
Excellent long term review. Baffling that dealers replace a gearbox for the failure of a seal etc. Those 'boxes must get re-used in other cars but the customer must be paying high prices for that business model. McLarens are very lovely cars.
It’s not just baffling, it’s bloody insane and daylight robbery. If they shared that fact when you were thinking about buying one you’d run a mile . A gearbox must be well over £25k ?
Very good, Harry. Its always, always in the research. Merry Christmas
Like a Citroën sphere then.
Don't think I'm ever getting in the position to buy one,but having the information on them is useful and very interesting,, nice to see and hear that you are happy with the purchase, general pleasure of owning such an iconic vehicle,☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️ from northern Ireland
I have a Hyundai i30 2011 here in Sweden, and drive it about 50,000km every year on salty roads and I don't wash it regularly, last time I did was February 2023, almost two years ago and it has no corrosion.
5000 mil per år. Det var inte dåligt. Själv hamnar jag på ca 700. Tvätta din bil. Varför undvika att hålla den ren?
@vika0194 because it's not worth the cleaning. I clean, spend time and money, once I hit the road, it's filthy, again, so better not to do it. Roads in Sweden once wet, they make this black sticky thing that sticks on the car, it's not mud, it's a black mixture, rubber+brake pads dust, when wet, it sticks like glue.
@@huss1205 du behöver inte förklara hur svenska vägar är. Du ser ju att jag är svensk på kommentaren. Ditt argument visar bara att du inte tar hand om bilen.
@@vika0194 I wake up at 6, drive to work at before 7, 115km to work, then at the office till maybe 16:30 or 17:00, drive back home, another 115km, home just before 19:00, and you expect me to clean a car in the cold, in the street, in the dark?
@@huss1205 så det är kallt och mörkt sedan februari 2023 alltså. Väldigt trovärdigt. Du bryr dig inte om din bil för du är lat. Svårare än så är det inte.
This is a fantastic review. Love the spec and agree this is the sweetspot not just for McLaren but sports cars in general. Congrats!
my car has a lady in it that says you're over the speed limit also. And that you're driving too close; and warns you when you've been at the pub for too long among lots of other useful petty reminders!
Another sublime video from Harry - he just keeps them coming!
I wouldn't leave it too long to deal with that corrosion, aluminium corrosion is like a worm under the paint and it moves quickly.
It wont rot. It will just bubble up more. Whatever he does, he has to repaint the entire car.
After watching Tavarish talking about the insane cost of P1 parts and dealership labor on his channel, those service-costs at the shop Harry went to seem downright reasonable! Also, it is nice to see things getting repaired rather that replacing components.
i think this car would be a good deep detailing project.
Great car, I love this colour too, I think you made the right choice, especially in Spider spec.
McLaren needs to improve its quality values
100% agree, better than the concept. So much confidence in AMs designs. They are totally crushing it. Stunning.
It's nice to see a real world review of a 10 yr old supercar by someone who really drives it. 10 yrs later, it still looks like a million bucks.
Thanks for the update Harry. Interesting to see how the upgrades and maintenance regimes are evolving.
I've got one of those speed limit warning things in my TVR...only works when the passenger seat is occupied, though...
Thats cool!
A fantastic review. The 650S is a great car, because as you say Harry, all the gremlins were ironed out on this car. Still looks fabulous too.
10:24 it's extraordinarily disappointing the dealership will only replace the entire transmission and not a single seal
Maybe they should replace the entire car when that transmission seal goes - it would solve those corrosion problems 😆
Fabulously enjoyable video to watch as always Harry. Watched with my daughter after a 250mile drive home from the dealer together in her first car! A Skoda Fabia. She's a petrolhead like me and loves coming out in my kitcar. One day she aspires to a car like your McLaren!
The problems in the first ten minutes of the video make McLaren sound terrible… and McLaren will bill you for a whole new gearbox when one seal goes?!
That’s not brand specific that’s just how main dealers work
Got a 7yr old 570s done 4500 miles in it in a year…only issue I’ve had is needed a new battery…if you get it inspected before purchase they aren’t as bad as everyone makes out..in my experience anyway..
Ferrari dealers or Lamborghini dealers absolutely would do that as well in such cases.
I’m a Hokey Pokey type McLaren buyer. I have one foot in and one foot out. I’ve owned 6 911s including 3GT3s but they’re so expensive I went to Lamborghini. But I’m thinking of McLaren because they’ve become so affordable. But still I’m scared
Mclaren is not known for they’re reliability…the depreciation on these things is terrible for that reason
It is beautiful, Harry, the shape alone is a stand-out feature, with the colour adding a lot to it. You have also done very well in your choice, as you have explained.