Another thing I hated was that the deathgrippers were treated as evil dragons even though we were SHOWN that grimmel was controlling them with their own venom. These dragons were victims and toothless electrocutes them and we're supposed to cheer. I was so hoping that we'd get a scene where the deathgrippers were freed and then THEY were the ones who dealt with grimmel. Kind of like how the hyenas ate scar. Also it would've been so awesome to have toothless and the lightfury fight when they first met, like how simba attacked nala for her trying to eat pumba.
The way the deathgrippers were handled was such a wasted opportunity that felt completely at odds with the ethos of the entire HTTYD series. As a viewer, I felt sympathy for these dragons that were basically being drugged and mind-controlled with their own venom, and I thought that surely they'd be freed from enslavement by the end of the film. Instead they all get electrocuted, fall into the ocean, and are never seen again. And not one character cares.
I made a comment in the comments section about changing dragon hunters to a different species that hates humans and dragons, I kinda like to think deathgrippers are too different, which makes them think deathgrippers are pure while thinking humans and other dragons are impure and need to be destroyed (Sort of needing to make an species extinct before they can destroy the world)
@@someadorablebuffcat fact checking, about making entire species evil makes no sense, does that refer to deathgrippers or my species idea? (But I still like it)
Thing is, in the show, Ruffnut was actually very clever and used this annoyance to INTENTIONALLY distract enemies. Which makes this all the more insulting to fans of her and the rest of the teens who got fleshed out in the show.
I'm not gonna watch the video, but I'm assuming that you're referring o when she annoyed Grimmel to let her go. My question is how is that insulting to fans?
@Generic Dan So in the original show that aired on Nickolodeon after the first movie ended, there was a villain in the show that was, basically Grimmel but a thousand times better. The same thing happens, she gets captured and annoys him into letting her go. The huge difference is, it wasn't out of stupidity. She used the knowledge that she got to him, to escape. Plus, she didn't just willy-nilly go back to the other vikings, she hid, and waited until she was sure she wasn't being followed. She was able to not only outsmart them, but bring valuable information back to Hiccup and the gang.
I THOUGHT THE SAME I was like "Why on earth dont they expand on all that unoccupied land around them that Hiccup mapped out completely in movie 2????" It just felt like they wanted to have a shitty reason to move the plot forwards
@@MARAH_animationAnd for anyone who may be wondering what those "obvious reasons" are... *Death Songs are dragon eaters, just like the Deathgrippers.* He didn't try to eat the gang's dragons, mind you, as he was around them for a while as a baby and saw them as flockmates rather than prey. This didn't stop him from trying to eat the wild dragons on the Edge, though. And so, for their safety, he was relocated to another island. And unlike the Deathgrippers, Garff was never labled as "evil." They simply stated the facts that he was a wild animal following his instincts and that it'd be wrong to call him evil for that. Compare that to the Deathgrippers which either got waterboarded or the electric chair treatment.
Why not just move the dragons without riders into some kind of sanctuary? Or just let them be in the wild? They can fly, they'll visit when they need dental care and the like if they want to. No need to hoard them like a bad cat owner.
@@blockEdragon this!! just let them be wild!! and not in the "force all dragons down into a glorified prison in the ground" way, literally just in the "the gang befriended a cute singetail and then let it fuck off when it wanted to" way
Theres even more problems with the ending. There are several dragons that just cannot fly. Speed stingers, cavern crashers, and sea shockers for example. There are people like the wing maidens, defenders of the wing, and berserkers who all rely on dragons for their way of life. Also vanaheim which is the final resting place for alot of dragons. It doesnt work now ig. That means the grim gnashers will die out. There are many dragons who live in specific environments. These include snow wraiths, changewings, smothering smokebreaths, and sand busters. There are dragons that would just kill each other if put in The same place because they are animals who eat each other. Submarippers and shell fires, scauldrons and sea shockers. There are dragons like the flightmare who will die without their food source found out in the open oceans. Cavern crashers eat eggs. Death songs will just trap and eat all the dragons. A skrill will not live in an underwater cave. Slitherwings will kill any dragon they touch because of the coating on their skin. The dragons at dark deep will have to abandon their ancient home. The sentinels at vanaheim are useless. Armor wings will die out with no metal. There isnt enough food down there. Dragons rely on fish alot but they also eat other stuff. And apart from all that, like you said, there are dragons in the rest of the world too. There will always be dragon hunters out there killing dragons and now the people of berk will have no way to help any of them. There are so many problems with the ending on so many levels.
That’s cuz the film makers don’t work together w the show makers. I really hate to say this, but the shows like riders of Berk and rtte aren’t canon. Also since toothless is the king of dragons now, can’t he js command all of them to not attack each other? He has Drago’s bewilderbeast(did I spell it right?) being loyal to him and he also roared multiple times to tell the other hundreds of dragons to stop chasing after hiccup and Astrid as well as command dragons like cloudjumper to get into the cages without attacking grimmel and the northern alliance warlords’ soldiers.
@@AtrociCollectoryou're not wrong in that assumption, but again, Toothless won't live forever, nor he cant really force animals that have to eat other dragons (i.e deathsongs) to not eat other dragons. Besides, the shows may not necessarily be canon (i still think they are because of the carry-over to the films--i.e wingsuits), but the dragons are and the habits of said dragons are still canon.
@@azul8128 yeah that’s true. Eventually toothless’ journey will end and there will be a new dragon leader in the hidden world. Maybe one of toothless and the light fury’s kids? And I wish the shows were canon too. The Cartoon Network show and rtte had so many canon references in them like mentioning the red death, drago flashbacks and appearances, a small part of the northern alliance’s base/hideout and valka appearing at the end to take a bewilderbeast(did I spell it right?) egg
@@AtrociCollector The movies have stuff that is only explained/found in the series though. How exactly how they not cannon when the movies directly reference stuff from the series? So no, pretending the series didn't happen doesn't work. They want their cake and to eat it too. They want to include the show as cannon while disregarding it. It just shows how badly written 3 is, and how bad the ending is.
By far one of the most BAFFLING things for me about the third movie is that Valka of all people was the first big person to suggest the separation of humans and dragons. Out of all the characters they could have chosen, they picked her?? The woman who lived in a dragon nest for like 20 years?!?
Not only that but she saw how they acted and actually healed some of them- I always wonder that; some of the dragons would probably die out in the world very easily without the help of humans. Like those with disabilities, injuries, sickness, and more.. I think it's more cruel to just leave them alone because "nature"
I wouldn't be surprised if the rationale behind making Valka an early advocate for separation was to make that decision seem more legitimate. After all, if the character who's been living with dragons for decades voices support for sending all the dragons away forever, then it MUST be a good idea, right?
And she didn't just live in a dragon nest... She ABANDONED her husband and CHILD to go live in a dragon nest because she loved dragons so much and couldn't bear to live in a society that did not understand her love for them! But yeah, sure, she'll just throw Cloudjumper away in a goodbye scene that lasted less than a minute. Omg it boils my blood and makes no sense...
Well they were probably following the kung fu panda trilogy. Though it would’ve been nice if we had a series that based after the second film so we can see how the hiccup and toothless take their new roles and see how well Valka will fit in with the help of the other Riders.
It's also rich because iirc at one point she tells Hiccup he's relying too much on Toothless... You know, the woman who became feral and lived with dragons entirely, relying on them to fly her around and get food and help other dragons, just like the Berkians had started doing
Another design change I despise is how they de-aged Valka. Her hair became bright red and her face became so smooth she looks more like a sister to Hiccup than his mother...
I totally agree, while I can maybe make a point of saying before she was living with dragons and therefore probably didn't have great hygiene which could explain why her hair is brighter (cause it's healthier?), they totally should've kept her face the same as before or at least given her age lines and more white hairs, it almost looks as if she has a totally different face shape lol
Toothless should have remained feline and at least a smidge aloof in his personality and mannerisms. The cute and funny things he did were made more potent by interspersing them between a lot of scenes of him being smart and mysterious/intimidating. This isn't exclusive to the third movie. They turned him into a doglike animal sidekick well before that point, and it's just an entirely different character than the iconic cat/bat/salamander everyone fell in love with in the first movie.
That's my biggest problem with him, first time watching the second film I didn't enjoy how he became too friendly. I always figured he'll still have moments of reminder that he can still be dangerous. He wasn't raised from an egg, he was a wild animal that came to trust humans. Sure expected him get less dangerous and aggressive but not completely take it out of him
@@iiiisssssaaaaaacccccc The difference is in the first movie, he was dog/ cat like but also it was very noticeable that he was a wild animal. After the first movie you can’t tell.
The feline thing was to make see toothless unsecurity, mistery and not confidene whit hiccup, after in the movies he became like a dog because he didnt had to be misterius, he was happy and loved all of berk, the dragins and hiccup, he grew up like hiccup and thats why he is different and for every movie dreamworks treid to make him see more realistic possible, thise bulcky walks and flyght were because of him being exited and desperate of love. We fell in love whit him because of its cuteness, that grew in all the movies, for how smart he was and for how funny and independebt he was, he was never a sidecick but a help for hiccup, he wanted to listen to him cause thanks to him he got freed by the red death and made hes life better(even if he ripped hes tail), he became more like a dog because he loved hiccup and would have done anything to protect him, the problem whit you is that you paragonize the character to other things, he is a dragon, a night fury, more inteligent than any other animal we know or in that planet, whit almost the same inteligence as a human, its obvius that in the first one he would look like a feline, to rapresent hes non confidence whit hiccup, but after he starts being like a dog, seeing that the guy wants to help him, get confident ecc, you always try to see everything as a bad thing, if all of that would have happened in the arc of 1 year(the first, second and third movie) i would agree that the design shouldnt be vhanged and even the character, but he grew up, he developed muscles and thats what it is that line in hes chest and fighted against all the dragons and let them know that he is the cutest and stringet of them all
The conflict I would actually enjoy watching. The light fury hurts Hickup and Toothless is so upset, he's lost all interest in her. She's very confused and genuinely begins making attempts to understand why Toothless cares so much about this single, weird human.
@@carved_cuts Yes! Someone actually did a fanfic similar to this except hiccup was raised and cared for by dragons his whole life after cloud jumper took him and valka. Valka passed away and hiccup became feral and thought he was a dragon. In one of the stories he and toothless meet Shiver (the light fury) and she attacks hiccup amd toothless made it clear to her you dont EVER do that to his hiccup and him and hiccup gave her the silent treatment it was great xD One part toothless basically told hiccup I like this girl dragon but if you dont i wont be with her you matyer to me most and I was like (THIS IS WHAT HHTYDHW WAS MISSING THE STRONG FRIENDSHIP BETWEEN HICCUP AND TOOTHLESS) Toothless would NEVER let another dragon harm hiccup like the light fury did in httydhw 😫 when i saw the light fury toss hiccup off toothless back and do nothing about it for a good minute I was like ABSOLUTELY NOT! 😡..... ANYWAY RANT OVER 😅
@@DomesticAnimo oehh 👀 sounds interesting. But yeah same. I hate it so much when characters are written very out of character for plot. Like in the Steven Universe future finale. I can rant for days on why EVERYONE crying over having wronged the protagonist pure sin. 😂💀
the retconning/contradiction of the night fury always pisses me off. The night fury is the most elusive, fast, and dangerous dragon but wait no actually apparently it's the easiest dragon to find and kill because they got eradicated by some rando who wasn't even as interesting as the 2nd movie's villain.
And the fact that, apparently, they were easy to spy on for Grimmel to conclude that they mate for life, when in the first movie, the people didnt even know how a nightfury looked like.
Honestly, i like sexual dimorphism in creatures, but it doesn’t have to be by human standards. Females can be larger and stronger, like spiders, or the males can be fancy like peacock. But sexual dimorphism done human had a tendency to be boring
Couldn't agree more. Sexual dimorphism in nature is super fun. But what could have been a fun example of sexual dimorphism is simply a nothing burger. She's not even the same species as Toothless so we cant really talk about that. I thought it would just be so cool if she HAD been a female night fury though. And it could gave been explained that the females are white because they lay on white rocks or glittery sand found only in some special hidden location to protect their eggs from detection or something. That's how birds in real life work! Females camouflage better whereas the males can be more starkly colored. Sigh... This movie had such potential but alas, it is just stupid.
I feel like people are complaining way too much about sexual dimorphism in this movie. Yes. She was introduced as a love interest for toothless, but they are still different species. In the movie, when the other dragons are celebrating Toothless and LF in the hidden world, we see 3 other light furies. 2 of them are a mother and a wyrmling. The mother and the wyrmling look exactly like LF, however the third one was different. It was blurry, as we only ever see it in motion, however we can clearly see that it has arrow shaped tail flaps, while the other 3 we've seen have heart shaped tail flaps. So, we can just hypothesise that that was a male. Also for those who are like "female dragons would be bigger than males, just like birds", dragons are literally reptiles. Their ability to fly is different from how birds fly. Also, Only birds of prey and a few other species have that kind of sexual dimorphism. Some of the closest living relatives to birds being crocodilians show extreme sexual dimorphism, with males being much larger. Also in Gift Of The Night Fury, we see a point where Starfire and another nadder are on screen. The other nadder being noticeably bulkier. This is a huge difference as most other nadders we see share the same physique. Now I wanna talk about how both species' design could be effective for survival (obviously this isn't the case from the designer's perspective). They are probably as close as lions are to tigers, so let's start with that. They are closely related but with many different design characteristics. Toothless has much longer ear frills than the light fury. An odd choice, but they could have different uses. Night furies are obviously Night hunters, and while they would have good Night vision, they would still have excellent hearing to detect the slightest of movements (could also be echolocation), meanwhile the light fury is a likely daytime hunter. and relies on sight more than other senses. Just like owls in contrast to hawks. I like to assume that the Light Furies would actually prefer fish to other prey species. They have sails, that one "male" we see looks like the others in most ways but the tail, which still looks like a fluke. They also have white colouration, and this could be like how countershading works in the wild. Now they obviously don't have dark backs like penguins do, but they are apex predators in the skies and they don't need to blend into the water from above, however while they would need to camouflage from prey, there are still predators in the water that they have to avoid, and since their other mirror scale ability that they share with Night Furies requires them to harness lightning and absorb it, there may not be in an adequate environment for that, and that seems like something they would use to hunt, high up in the air rather than waste energy using it above the water. -I was gonna type an entire essay about how the light fury's design could be advantageous, but I'm bored- (Edit: I have no life) -and since I'm sure that many HTTYD 3 haters, who just so happen to be evolutionary biologists will come at me for defending the movie, I'm just gonna leave this at that- Also, this got longer than I expected.
That is it ! They made a female character according to human standards, to what humans (cough cough men) perceive as typically feminine and conventionally attractive. But aren't they supposed to create a female character by animal standrads ? Dragons are animals, not humans, and surely don't care about curves, eye shadow and hearts.
@@Shaddiewolf I love your explanation for her shimmery scales ! Applying gender specific behavior taht could explain different appearances sounds so great, but Dreamworks really dropped the ball on dragon design. They could have been inspired by so many cases of sexual dimorphism in the animal kingdom but chose the easy, wrong way. And as you pointed out, the Light fury is it's separate species, so there wouldn't be a need for sexual dimorphism really.
One thing I never see mentioned by the way is that Toothless being mates with the Light Fury isn’t the big win for the Night Fury species that the movie wants you to think it is, by the way, because that’s not how genetics and hybridization works! The Light Fury is clearly an entirely different species than the Night Fury, and already seems to have a stable population. There’s only one of Toothless. This means, that even if Toothless’s offspring are fertile- which based on how hybridization for most animals works, would not be the case- the best case scenario in this situation would be that Toothless’s genetics would become incredibly diluted throughout the Light Fury population and Night Furies would still go extinct, in a similar manner to how some modern humans have Neanderthal DNA.
I think I mentioned that briefly in the video, that night furies would go extinct in the httyd3 scenario anyway; being breed out. So yeah I agree, it doesn't make sense the thing I don't really mind is the light fury and toothless being able to breed and have offspring that are fertile- it's fantasy and making hybrids is fun so whatever pFT The hybrids they created however, were absolutely awful AFTYFWDTY
For me I like to think of the light fury and toothless as the same species and they are just different breeds (kind of like dogs, cats, horses, literally any other species)
Before i watch any further i have to say this about ruffnut, she is actually the smarter twin, as stated in rtte, and if she was in character, she would have have NEVER been that dumb
You know what I personally think is very strange. The "you gave him his freedom what did you expect", first of all he was never trapped, second of all in I think "the gift of the night fury" hiccup gave him a tail almost exactly like the one in this movie but guess what. He came back. Like idk what that was all about, and I also don't like how Toothless and Hiccup's relationship is completely destroyed in the 3rd movie, not even attempting to protect them from the lightfury after she almost killed them (multiple times mind you) and then the face on toothless after she leaves just looks like he completely recked his chances of having a mate
Finally someone noticed how dumb this line was as an excuse to push hiccups very poor separation idea. Gift of the night fury was even referenced in the movie since they knew he made one before.
@@someonerandom9939”you made him this before, he didn’t want it” A Couple days later “You have him his freedom, what did you expect?” Lmao he’s always had freedom This reminds me of when grimmel said that furies can’t survive in the cold even though toothless has been living on Berk for six years
What's the problem with Toothless wanting to be with the light fury? She almost killed hiccup? Toothless almost killed stoick, and Astrid. It's called being defensive
@@doctordyrroth have you watched the movies before? Like in movie 1 where toothless ran to hiccup to attack the monstrous nightmare that was trying to attack hiccup? The part where in movie 1 he saves hiccup from dying by diving in after him through the fire? Toothless is known to always protect hiccup, yet he doesn't when the light fury almost kills him, that's the main problem.
Still can’t get over the fact they spent two whole-ass movies building a friendship and showing how special and precious the bond between vikings and dragons can be in the face of adversity…only to stabbed be in the lungs with the ‘you gotta let go of your friends eventually lol’ cliche plot the HTTYD had been against up until that point. Just look at the Gift of The Night Fury. It was SO clear Toothless and Hiccup would’ve never left each other, I would’ve rather wanted to see Toothless choosing to stay and leaving the hidden world to his ‘queen’. Together from afar forever 😢
Exactly I see what they were trying to do. Letting go in life is important. However! Letting go only happens for A REASON. Such as death, a war, or something simply just won’t work. Let’s see then: Toothless nor hiccup died, they defeated their enemies and it wasn’t even a war, and there is no evidence to suggest that dragons and humans can’t get along, if anything there is evidence for the complete opposite. It just dosent make any sense.
@@GoodMan-rf8mz Plus, and I've actually seen a good fan comic about this: Toothless and Hiccup need each other, which was also one of the core themes of the series. Dragons and humans need each other and can peacefully coexist. Toothless is essentially physically disabled, being unable to fly without his prosthetic fin. I'd assume that that fin needs maintenance from its maker: Hiccup. The comic basically explains the story of how Toothless' reign was short: without hiccup there was nobody to keep his tail well maintained and working as it should, so over the years it started to wear down and eventually it broke. Toothless fell down from the sky, and as the saying goes, "a downed dragon is a dead dragon".
Plus the whole reasoning is super bad. Like first of all, how is hiding better for dragons if "Greedy men will always find a way"? Wouldn't that just mean someone would find the Hidden World anyways, endagering the dragons even more since there is no human around to help? (Which is actually the base for my httyd fanfiction lol) I know they tried to make it all forshadowy like with Gobber saying they'll pick a fight they can't win one day, and the whole thing was supposed to be "oh Grimmel is that fight you can't win, it's so dangerous" when in reality they beat him just fine. The previous movies and shows proved that Hiccup and Toothless work best when they're together but then the third is trying to convince us it's safer if they're split apart? Wtf
This ^ Also the third movie completely undermines the message the 2nd set. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" but Toothless gets to ignore that and not only endangeres the ENTIRE FLOCK but also all of Berk and his BEST FRIEND for one random chick. Not to mention if he had told the flock to fire they would've killed Grimmel way before he even got a chance to off the Light Fury. But oh well. Guess Stoic died for nothing
I hate how they made toothless a literal dog. His behavior and his design is more puppylike and kinda uncanny he sticks out way too much from the other dragons. He was supposed to be intelligent and cat like I refuse to believe he’s the same character from the first movie they share little to no resemblance with each other and are completely different characters. He is very out of character, annoying af and it just seemed like he didn’t care about hiccup. He literally left him forever just to get laid. He’s supposed to be a tamed wild animal not a domesticated dog.
Didn’t he leave Hiccup because their stories paralleled? He had to leave to lead the dragons away and Hiccup had to stay to be the leader of his people. Toothless was gonna leave with or without the light fury, she was a bonus
My man woke up and chose to speak fax However! He always had dog characteristics. Such as loyalty, playfulness, intelligence and his protective instincts too. Kinda like a German shepherd almost. However in the third movie, he did just become some oversized puppy that follows things around. Every one of his “good dog” characteristics, he lost. And he became an oversized, stupid, slobber dog. That didn’t care about his best friend and wasn’t loyal. He went from a German shepherd to a pug
Well least it isn’t as bad as Dragons Nine Realms. Though I do wonder… was there a plan to make a 4th movie? Because I honestly would’ve loved to see it even if it didn’t have dragons, we could’ve learned about Hiccups kids. When Nine Realms came out I thought it was gonna be a story about his kids but no… to my utter disappointment it was about some guy and his friends in the modern era… which I hate. It happened with boruto, and it happened in the smurfs 1 and 2.
I agree with the Kung Fu Panda recommendation, awesome franchise too. But I did wanna say, I actually did cry at the end of this movie, but not for the reasons they were probably wanting. As I was crying and watching the dragons leave, I was whispering “no” to myself, because it felt SO WRONG. It felt so out of place and distorted and just, bleck. So I cried for the franchise and the awesome friendship I’d come to love. Because man, what a garbage way to end it for the fans.
Same, with the only difference is that i held my tears until i saw the credits starting to roll and i saw screenshots of the first movie, that made me feel sooo empty and broke, 100% not for the reason the filmmakers were thinkng, just me thinking :"wtf?? What the hell happened?? How is this the end?? Not the first movie screenshots put there just to make you emotional and forget what the hell happened in the ending"🥴
The whole thing about the “challenge of making a girl dragon” is bizarre because there have BEEN female dragons since the first movie. They just look identical to the males, this was a plot point in Gift of the Night Fury when they find Meatlug’s nest. It also feels kinda weird considering the human designs in the first movie, too. In any crowd shot, the women are large and muscular like their fellow vikings. Ruffnut didn’t get the “overfeminized genderbend” treatment. Even Astrid, who can be considered the most cookie-cutter love interest design of the female cast has these little quirks that make her look more like a person. She’s got imperfect teeth, a nasally voice like Hiccup, and this is such a small detail but she has these little.. spots? on her skin towards her scalp? I don’t know where they pulled the “girl must be clean and soft” from, because that wasn’t the aim of the original design lineup at all. I don’t know what collective amnesia happened during this movie’s development but it’s disappointing man
these movies probably didn't have the same directors/producers, the same creative vision and definitely didn't have the same intentions. so it's not as accidental as you may think
Plus it also doesn't make sense biologically for her (light fury) to be like that, she looks like a semi-aquatic dragon but she's not, and they reduced the number of sensory organs (the "ears") ??? that's just stupid, it would even make sense for her to have more of those since she's supposed to be a stealth hunter and needs to use her senses. Sure you can have the back "fin" or the slightly rounder wing and tail ends but make her more like toothless, give her visible scales and spikes and a more blocky build; every other female dragon in the series is just like the males, like a real animal, not a gendered cartoon animal. I get light furies are a subspecies but there was no practical thought put into them (like they did with other dragon species), they're just Marketable Easier To Make Cute Girl Dragon. They had to make her cutesy and girly because she's the main dragon's love interest and that's gonna sell. I HATE her design with all my heart.
@@sakuraice22 Short ears and small and smooth scales actually make sense for semi-aquatic or very fast creatures. First reason is aerodynamics. Look at birds, seals and otters. They have very smooth shapes, because any protrusion is air/water resistance, i.e. deceleration. Second reason that if you have protruding ears, in the water they will create turbulence (in the air, in fact, too, but the air is much less dense than water, so this is not so critical) and interfere with hearing. P. S. The main problem with ligth fury is ideas that were pursued in its creation: not the creation of a fast and efficient semi-aquatic hunter, but the creation of a love interest.
@@sakuraice22 i havent watched httyd 3 but some people said that the light fury isnt a female night fury Its just close to it Like lions and tigers Or leopards and jaguars(i feel like i spelled it wrong💀)
It's honestly gross how they go from claiming that they'll change the world bit by bit to be more accepting to "oh yeah never mind, actually we can't do anything about it and can't live together afterall, bye." Like what kind of message does that give to kids? That bigotry can't be beat? You can't change things? Things can't get better, so might as well be separate forever? Do they seriously not understand how that really messes with kids heads?
@Bobby Last name OH yeh, sorry, totally naive of me to assume bigotry can be fought and social change can actually take place 🤨 You know this sounds like you're excusing those things right? Sure, not EVERYONE can change, but THINGS can change in society bit by bit if we work hard. Acting like things can't ever change or ever be fixed is a self-centered and coward point of view, since you wanna call me naive.
The only thing I'd ever disliked about the third movie is Astrid. When I first saw her in the first movie, she was a viking like the others, dirt on her face, feminine but boxy like the rest of the characters still by a little. In this movie Astrid is curvy, motherly, kind and clean. No one else seems to have noticed this, so I could be overthinking it, but I would definitely say I much rather the tough, scary, cool Astrid. Does anyone else agree? I've been thinking about it alot and haven't seen someone talk about it. I hope I'm not just being nitpicky about it.
You're right, all the female characters (human or dragon) in this movie became less rugged and dirty. They look softer, "prettier". Which doesn't fit the past movies at all!
i can definitely see from a marketing standpoint they wanted astrid to be appealing to the eye and more womanly-which is fine! but since she’s a viking i do wish they’d kept at least SOME of her edginess from the first film too. now, her being more “motherly” as you put it, i think was just to set her up as a mother later in the film. if she was still the brash, tomboyish astrid we met in the first film then her suddenly being the sweet, kind mother we see at the end of the last film would be jarring. there’s definitely a smooth transition in astrid’s maturity and femininity throughout each film.
@@ajiananapier25 I mean, a mother doesn't have to be a stereotypical sweet and one-dimensional being to be good. Since the very first movie Astrid was very caring, just because she was tomboyish doesn't disregard her qualities for a good parent. In fact, I would KILL for a tomboyish mother that isn't lesbian, it seems weird that the only way the media can potray a good mother is by reverting back to the stereotypes
@@billcipher8645 in this series, the closest thing we have to a portrayal of a mother who isn’t stereotypical is valka (plus we don’t even know she’s a woman until she takes her mask off) we know she’s empathetic and kind, as well as badass and athletic-traits astrid also possesses, but it’s possible that astrid was meant to become an increasingly “softer” presence in hiccup’s life, at the cost of her tomboyish qualities, not because of her own character growth but who she is in relation to hiccup (she even says “i am the person i am today because of you”)
I consider the last movie as not canon. For me the second one is the final to the first movie and the series after that. Everything builds up to Drago as the biggest threat. Grimmel just feels like an afterthought.
@@Shaddiewolf you see I wish I could that man. Every time I watch the first and second movies I see Drago get defeated, Red death get defeated, I see toothless and hiccup being friends and enjoy time together, and I see them save each others lives. But every time I see these moments, I can’t help but think, “welp, that was all for nothing anyway”. Third movie really crushed everything for me.
@Good Man oh no! You poor thing :( When I first watched the movie and saw the reunion in the boat, I thought that the Vikings would reunite with their dragons again or at least our hero's. The ending is relatively open in that matter. So yeah. The third movie ends with hiccup and Toothless reuniting because they can't really stay away from each other for so long!!
@@alinaw.2071 yeh but the problem is that, the end scene where they reunite dosent mean anything. According to Dean DeBlois that’s the last time toothless and hiccup ever saw each other, and toothless later forgot about Hiccup. Very annoying
the characters being ruined hurts even worse if you've watched dragons: riders of berk. and race to the edge. those shows proved for example that while the twins are "mutton heads" they can still be smart and compitent team members. if i remember correctly ruffnut even used the be anoying as a captive move......exept she made sure not to be followed. they really did their own characters dirty
@@HiroshirouTavern yeah this movie threw away all their lore and character building. And forgot about so many plot points they made. Like valka's disabled dragons for example. Its over al just BAD
I mean literally this movie was a massive forced retcon just to be able to obtain the canon ending of the books (Even though at that point the movies and the books were their own individual thing and had nothing to do with one another except the fucking name) and here we are
@@HiroshirouTavern true, i adored the books. But the ending really doesnt work for the movies it was stupid of then to focus on that plot point. dreamworks, Spirit is an amazing example of what httyd 3 failed at
God when the art book came out i was weirded out reading the design notes about the light fury. So much talk about how feminine they had to make her and the focus on her looks and "feminine" movements just so gross. Plus it felt like their need to make her 'wild and untamed' and the need to make her super feminine cancelled out and gave her the blandest design ever. (also if they wanted to avoid her markings looking like scars....they couldve just made them blue. like her underbelly). When i left the theater after watching this movie i was sad because a part of my childhood was done, but also toothless was really the last night fury. His kind was doomed. The ending is 'hopeful' but theres no more night furies according to the film. They're all dead. Toothless' entire species is gone forever because of One Guy. They gave hiccup all those flashback scenes but i would've loved to see one from toothless' memories, if only so we could've seen another night fury or two. Not to mention as someone who related to hiccup in the first movie growing up, seeing everyone in the third film constantly shit on his ideas and hopes felt especially bad. Also i dont watch it but there are so many bad implications with the nightlights in the nine realms. It takes place thousands of years after httyd3 and the main character's nightlight has two parents who are also nightlights, it just feels so gross (and sorry for rambling in your comments section fdshdf)
Some of the stuff it says in the art book is honestly just baffling. It's so transparent like holy shit- Also yeah I find it hilarious that the Light Fury was meant to represent the 'wild' and honestly she looks the least wild out of all the dragons. In fact she almost looks bred specifically for domestication. Short face (almost pug looking), small feet, blunt claws and teeth..... it's so silly lol Also yeah I felt the same. It was just kind of sad and very underwhelming. I mostly left it feeling... nothing much about it. Also yeah good point actually! I would have preferred there was just more night furies but if they really insisted on having flash backs, they should have given toothless some lmao. And yeah I mentioned it in the video as well but lmaoooo those furies are absolutely inbred AGUYWGD I haven't watched it either tho, haven't watched any of the shows. (also nah, ur good!!)
@@MyUniverseinaBox She is Bella Swan if she was a dragon instead of a human: A blank slate whose sole purpose is to be the main character's love interest.
@@MyUniverseinaBox Since when How To Train Your Dragon became a rip off of Twilight? Because Toothless/Light Fury screams Edward/Bella and I'm not saying so as a compliment. When obsessive lust is being sold to kids as romantic love, that already tells me the movie is bad.
I agree- I also had some idea that if this truly was a Toothless movie. They could have made him and Grimmel enemies. Like he probably killed Toothless' mother or saw his kind die by him and quite possibly make some kind of revenge driven Toothless. I would love to have seen more of his ferocious side again then the dog-like one. I really just didn't want him to just end up being a marketable plushie :( I loved seeing him be a dragon
I always thought that the scene when toothless drew himself then growled when the light fury stepped was weird. It felt gross like the light fury didn't care about toothless and his boundaries (like in movie 1 where hiccup respected his boundaries)
I don't know if it's abusive or not. But I wouldn't be surprised if it is because the entire construct of their relationship is essentially based on physical attraction, not genuine emotional connection.
Toothless in HTTYD 1: I fought my queen, who is much bigger than me, for my friend Toothless in HTTYD Gift of the Night Fury: When all the other dragons left, I searched the ocean for days on end just to find my friend's hat Toothless in HTTYD 2: I fought the king of all dragons and became Alpha for my friend Toothless in HTTYD 3: *I left my friend for my wife who I met two days ago*
@@Jdudec367they really made toothless a simp. And what happened to loyalty and friendship for YEARS then? Guess that can be overlooked too for the sake of mating. Just what the hell is this movie 😭there’s literally NOTHING related to animal behaviour and merely humanising animals. Toothless could’ve bang the light fury, protect its mate until it finishes laying eggs or however this work and leave, like how lions don’t have mates for life and are non-monogamous. Fidelity is merely a human construct. Not animal construct. If my memory serves me right, most dragons in the show are always single parents/mothers.
@@eyman730 They didn`t make him a simp, what the hell are you taklking about? That loyalty and friendship is still there. No it`s still there so it can`t be overlooked for the sake of mating and nothing is overlooked for the sake of mating here. It`s a good movie. No there is stuff related to animal behavior. Some animals do have mates for life though. It really isn`t just a human construct some animals have it too.
@@Jdudec367 It's not a good movie. Everything is wrong with it, from the begining to the end, and Toothless ditching Hiccup is only a tip of the iceberg.
43:31 you know what's funny, is that Dreamworks DID develop and explore the side characters! HTTYD: Race to the Edge did this PERFECTLY. There were multiple episodes where side characters got to lead and shine, whether it be showing off their skills or just basic character development. Not only do Hiccup and Astrid's relationship get some screentime, we get to see Ruff and Tuff being more than the "funny twins that fight," and even Snotlout had moments that showed his more sensitive side. The worst part of all this? Dreamworks doesn't consider the shows to be canon. All of their development from Gift of the Night Fury, Riders of Berk, Defenders of Berk, and Race to the Edge doesn't matter when it comes to the films. The shows rely on the films, but the films completely ignore the shows. And this is what pisses me off the most. When you leave out the shows, you get the idea that every side character is some bumbling idiot who's just there for the clout from their bestie friend Chief Hiccup Horrendous Haddock the Third. When that's just?? So wrong??? Just from RTTE, we realize how everyone has their place and unique skills in the team. Hiccup is the leader, Astrid is the strategist, Fishlegs is the brains, Snotlout is the brawn, and the Nuts are the red herring (the best I can put in the fewest words). And even THEN, they are so much more outside of this, especially for Snotlout, Ruff and Tuff. I mean really, Snotlout in the 3rd film was painted as a misogynistic asshole when he literally had an entire episode in RTTE where he fixes that with the Wing Maidens??? ("Snotlout's Angels," S5 E4) *TLDR; I feel like its such a HUGE missed opportunity and straight-up ruins the side characters simply by ignoring the shows. It devalues their characters to "haha bully friends," and it's just so, so insulting... The films could've been SO much better if they just accepted the shows as canon.* Edit: Also, it's Red Death, not Green Death! It was irking me just a little bit, lol. As characters, the Red Death and the Green Death are two different dragons. Red Death is from the first film, while the Green Death is from a game (from what I remember). Edit 2: OH ALSO GRIMMEL HAS NOTHING ON VIGGO AS A VILLAIN. Even Drago Bludvist, man! Grimmel as a villain is just so bland, he's literally nothing more than "evil hiccup" and that's it! They literally should've brought back Drago, you know, the man who doesn't back down from a fight. Of course, that's if he didn't drown after being dragged into the ocean by his bewilderbeast.
I've heard this from a few ppl now that the characters had better development in the show- and if that is true, that is just, embarrassing pffff (I have not watched any of the shows apart from a couple episodes from the first one when I was younger) ((I didn't continue watching it cause I did not enjoy the writing)) I personally don't agree that the shows should be considered canon- or I'm kinda whatever about it, but point is, it wouldn't make this third movie any better. They should have just, not written them like this in the first place. Also Gift of the Night Fury is actually canon! Cause they directly reference it in the third movie. oH MY GOSH Originally I wrote it as the 'red death' in the entire script but searched it up just to make sure and it said it was actually the green death?? so I corrected it to that- so confused LMAO google lied to me Also yeah, again I haven't watched the shows so I don't know Viggo but pFTF eXACTLY. Grimmel is so eh. If they really wanted a villian, yeah I feel like they really could have done more with Drago or the remains of his fleet or something.
can't believe you didn't touch on this, but Ruffnut's literal entire character in the 2nd movie is just "sexual assault but a woman does it to a man. please laugh." it's horrible and it's never addressed in-universe, i don't know about interviews and the like. also i hate how the 3rd movie looks like it got some instagram soft-glow filter over the whole thing. everything is soft and blended edges, it really does look like a filter.
God I- Actually forgot about that- yeah, it was pretty gross and uncomfortable. also plays into the 'haha look how funny it is that ruffnut loves someone cause she's so ugly and weird haha' also yeAH TRUE It really does >:"DDD
For the second point that's my complaint exactly. The second film was characterized by the crisp blue lighting and everything looks sharp. Why does the whole 3rd film look like it was shot with a shit camera at golden hour
Ruffnut rlly shined in Race to the Edge (has its flaws but still highly recommend) She was goofy like her brother but it's shown they both have good ideas that they just present them in different ways. And it's also stated that she purposefully fucks w villains. For example, in a scene similar to fhe httyd 3's "annoying ruffnut scene", she tries to annoy the villain in order to confuse him. When he threatened her she looked him dead in the eye and says "take your best shot pal" It's sad to see characters who sad sm good development in the show (snotlout and ruffnut specifically) go into the trash in the 3rd movie, which more ppl would've watched and know the characters for
Ruffnut's (and Tuffnut's too tbh) entire personality is shit in the movies. Just look at the relationship the twins have. In the show, we have entire episodes of them being a good match, being bonded and sticking together no matter what. We have scenes where Ruffnut defends her brother to the teeth and scenes where Tuffnut risks his life for his sister Yet in the movie they're back to being the generic "haha twins who actually hate each other" clichée. Like, Rtte Tuffnut would've never, EVER left Ruffnut behind. He literally faked his death in Rtte so Ruffnut could be free and happy, for crying out loud! "That's my sister out there, Astrid. If this goes wrong and we don't safe her, I couldn't live with myself." VS "I avoid looking at her. Gives me acid reflux" I rest my case.
THIS VIDEO MAKES ME FEEL SO SEEN. I've gone on my own rants with my friends on the exact same points-the misogyny, the mistreatment of the deathgrippers, httyd3 having WAY lower stakes than httyd2, the themes contradicting each other. You understand me.
I always loved HTTYD for its message about platonic love. I have since forever cherished my friends more than I would ever a romantic partner. Imagine the disappointment I felt when I heard about the Light Fury and that it would become a love interest. I still gave it a chance, but all the things that were said in the movie, the typical "now that they found a partner their friends are not important anymore", it's just what I always hear in society and it makes me incredibly sad. The first time I saw HTTYD3, I cried during the separation scene, but not because of the separation, but because it hit too close to what I've been taught (but I refuse to believe): your friends will leave you once they find love. HTTYD might be my favorite movie of all time. It makes me happy, makes me dream of possibilities. HTTYD3 is depressing and defeatist. I will never understand why they decided to go in that direction.
It is indeed true, friends lose time for each other as they find lovers and have a family, but do they completely leave each other, and decide never to see or talk again? Uh no. However me and my best friend haven’t won 3 wars, defeated 2 massive dragons, he didn’t disable me and I didn’t kill his dad, so I can’t say for sure 😂.
YES! What makes the first movie so powerful is that it’s about a real, mutual and deep friendship that is supposed to be the BACKBONE of the ENTIRE FRANCHISE. Toothless and Hiccup *love* each other. They’re there for each other when no one else is and I just??? People should respect important platonic relationships more. fuck.
i’m aroace and my GOD, this message is so so so tired. i really appreciated the emphasis on friendship and platonic love in the first film but this one just throws it out the window
This idea, actually, at 33:00 is actually the kind of realization that I had which lead to my first and second breakups. I was becoming a version of myself that I didn't want to be. A version of myself that had no world outside of romance, sex, and making life plans with that one person who I met and decided to obsess over and project all my needs onto.. I unconsciously decided (or perhaps was forced to due to necessity of finite time, and the priority structure I had of a romantic relationship being above everything else) to separate from a lot of who I am, including my previous interests and mannerisms, as well as my friends, who had always been there when I needed them, and always loved me, even if not expressing it often.
This. This is exactly what I thought watching the third movie, especially being aromantic myself. Thank you for voicing this because damn did it hit close to home.
I still refuse to believe that EVERY dragon left to the hidden world like toothless isn't the only Alpha Dragon out there so why would EVERYONE listen to him?
I totally agree. Going off of Race to the Edge, there are at least two more Bewilderbeasts that are alive and a natural alpha species. The titan wing variants of each species also have an alpha role to normal members of their respective species.
One thing makes the franchise even worse: as soon as Dean took sole control, Hiccup turned into a self-insert Mary Sue to channel Dean's personal experiences. Overly Sarcastic Production's video is the perfect diagnostic outline, Hiccup exists to the exclusion of EVERYTHING and everyone else, even the _world_ doesn't extend past his shadow. You know, the world that's supposed to be 'our' world. There's nothing out there, just wilderness and random people on boats painted with a thin veneer of franken-cultures. This gets exponentially worse in THW, where nothing, and I mean _nothing_ exists that doesn't serve Hiccup. Even Toothless's 'romance' _only exists_ to push Hiccup's 'fly on your own' character arc, which is an arc he's _already gone through._ No other characters are allowed to be smart, capable, or autonomous. There ARE no other character arcs, Toothless has everything he wants handed to him on a silver platter. All the other dragons and Berkians are reduced to brainless robots with no wants or needs of their own, so they can't interfere with Hiccup's plans. There is one, and _only_ one arc that exists independent of Hiccup, even though he tried to initiate it: Eret's turn to the rider's side. It was Stormfly that actually made him change, and he's the only reason Astrid and co are still alive. These scenes are stunning, so very sincere and heartfelt, and proof of what Hiccup could do if he was actually _allowed_ to try talking to other, regular people. And yet, by the time of THW Eret's been benched so hard he doesn't even get to fight with the rest of the cast, the camera literally cuts away to get back to Hiccup. And outside the films, he's regularly ignored or outright forgotten within the fandom (no offense meant of course lol, just case in point). There were a thousand things they could've done with this character, but nope. He's _too_ competent and thus a threat to Dean's favorite boy. Hell, we see him with Skullcrusher, _Stoick's dragon,_ all of... twice? three times? And two of those three times were just, them in the background of a travel scene. He's allowed no dignity or relevance (because he's not Hiccup), even if he could've added something meaningful to the plot because APPARENTLY in a comic that never got released, HE WAS THE SON OF A CHIEF TOO. (No, this was not relevant in the comic either, because for some reason no one knows what to do with a character that has unlimited potential if it would involve relations between characters that aren't explicitly romantic, and that's not allowed in this franchise anymore.)
Honestly I never even thought of this, well said and good point It rly does seem Hiccup is really one of the few characters that is allowed to have.. character It's really unfortunate they didn't do more with Eret as well, yeah. Just another case of them either dumb-ing down the side characters or pushing them off to the side. Seems Eret got the latter treamtment.. Also heck I had no idea he was also the son of a chief??? Is that why they always refer to him as Eret son of Eret?? Huh.. I really wish they did more with the characters and world. They expanded a bit on it in the second but yeah honestly the third does feel really empty...
@@MyUniverseinaBox Yeah that happened in the Fire Tides comic that never got released due to development hell. Audrie Greywind recently did an interview with Richard Hamilton to reveal the plot, as it last stood anyway, and aside from that it was full of... frankly harebrained nonsense like Gothi having an evil twin. The comics are in the same limbo as the tv shows, since they go completely ignored by the films and leave far more questions than answers. But the film world feels empty, because it _is._ There are no other civilizations, no other good characters with narrative autonomy that _could_ be the source of more stories like in say, Star Wars. But on top of that, THW is like, 80% tell, 20% completely-contradictory show. We're _told_ the armada is the worst thing ever, and yet the second Hiccup leaves it in pursuit of Grimmel it just... ceases to exist. We're _told_ Grimmel is the best hunter EVAR and yet... he can't bait a trap, and has to be explicitly told to follow his prey, by his prey, when he's ALREADY had two opportunities to do so, _and_ he has zero proof of his claim of killing all Night Furies. We're told the Hidden World is the only safe place for dragons... but shown a dank cave with no food or water, when New Berk is _equally_ unreachable if you aren't a dragon. Plus, to quote Jack Sparrow.... If the HW is soooooooo secret, _where do the stories come from I wonder?_
OMG YES!!! This put my thoughts on the characters into words so well! Can I ask of something tho? I tried to find the Overly Sarcastic Productions' video you mentioned, but I tried every search I could think of, and I tried to find it manually by scrolling among their videos... And yet, I couldn't find anything regarding the HTTYD franchise, if we don't count their video on dragons as a whole, as a trope. I believe I'm somehow missing it, despite my best efforts, and it sound so interesting, I would really love to watch it. Could you possibly give a hint about the video's name or a link, anything really?
@@ladyyoyo5418 Oh, it wasn't a HTTYD-specific video, it was one about the Mary Sue trope which just-so-happens to apply to Hiccup now that he's the center of the entire universe of the franchise. That should be much easier to find!
I saw a little animatic someone made where Hiccup finds a baby Night Fury chained up instead of the Light Fury. It would have been SO much more amazing if Toothless was protecting and teaching a baby Night Fury! 🥹 Why Dreamworks?! WHY?!
This is a little late but yes i totally agree! i saw it awhile ago and now its my new headcanon. The third movie never happened the way it did, and toothless is an awesome mentor/adopted dad now, no one can convince me otherwise
Also something funny to note. The ending of the book series is not entirely about separation. Most of the dragons separate, yes, however Toothless and a few others stay behind. So even in the book series, Toothless and Hiccup are still with each other.
"But the story of Toothless and Hiccup is all about growing up and learning to be without each other and friends ofc never stay forever in your life!" - some HTTYD 3 defender, probably
Your explaination of the separation hits. I was in a rough point in my life when the 3rd movie came out but was so excited to watch it, only for the movie to tell me "Give up". That I should give up on my dreams for the future, stay scared and do what the bad guy wants by staying isolated. It really really wasn't what I needed to hear.
I too, really enjoyed the lightfury's design, at first. My immediate impression was that she was meant to be cave dwelling, seeing that I already had some knowledge as to where the hidden world was located. It was the obvious assumption. Her design made total sense. When I looked into it further, I was absolutely disgusted. She was not only created to have a "feminine shape", but they also removed so many of the draconic features that toothless has. Visible scales? Nope, she has to have glitter skin. They gave her no sharp points, changing what were spikes on toothless to curved Fins. The Creators are clearly able to make female characters that look normal, but decide to mess up so badly here? Really?
I liked that they at least kept the rounder and smoother look for both the males and females. I can see dragons living in a cave like habitat having different skin/scales than others. Her design being inspired after snow leopards also makes sense for how she looks to me
The design would have worked, as mentioned in the video, if they had actually shown her making use of those adaptations. I 100% see your point, but it was the intentions behind it that made this so terrible. I still like the design, but they could have designed a girl without trying so hard to make her distinctly feminine. There are explanations for the changes we see, but none of them are hinted at in the show, apart from her being cave dwelling. I would have loved to see what is basically a night fury that had adapted to its environment, but unfortunately that isn't what the movie delivered.
Realistically too, females are bigger and more aggressive then a male. Not all the time but it's pretty common in reptiles and even birds. Her "feet" bother me because they're so small how does she even eat or protect herself?
@@flinsterckx8123 yes lets give a male reptile small curly spikes on it's chest to simulate chest hair and avoid giving it yellow and beige scales to enhance it's masculinity because men shouldnt be blonde.
It was so wierd that grimmel said that they cant survive out The cold when Toothless survives an life taking iceblast from an Alpha Dragon the sice of berk the island itself and he liked to cold in Httyd 2 visibly
Plus Hiccup said in Berks first introduction “it snows nine months of the year and hails the other three” How could Toothless survive that much cold?? Grimmel is stupid
Kinda funny too how they completely disregarded the fact that Hiccup was suppose to be a runt? By the next few movies hes just as big as all his friends? It would have been cool if astrid grew past him lol idk 😐
Oh god the side characters being treated like that after race to the edge broke me. Snot got mature and even took responsibility and cared for the fire worm queen and defended her. Rough and tough get closer and even show that if she got married that she would have her partner live with her and her twin brother. Also can we talk about how not strait snot is? Like he kissed fishlegs when he was thore bone crusher. Like i dont think fish and him would work out since snot is definitely more into "manly men" but like still 0-0 Also toothless would literally never leave hiccup its insane
I skipped watching HTTYD3 solely from seeing the commercials and thinking "they made the female night fury white? so it's just going to be a dragon love story? boring!" I enjoyed your ranting and learning that I got to miss things I would have hated even more.
God, this was so cathartic to watch. The fact that THW gets the praise it does and is lauded as having a "mature" message drives me insane, because the inconsistencies and audience manipulation feels so obvious I really think the ship was doomed to sink once Chris Sanders left after the first film and HTTYD was slated to be a profitable franchise. I'm sure Dean is a fine writer, but if the first film and lilo and stitch are anything to go by, he doesn't work best alone. If you watch the documentary on the making of HTTYD 1, a lot of what makes it so special really is Chris's touch. And it's painful to see how hard everyone worked on that film, how many genius creative decisions were being made to complete a work of art, only to be degraded to this :(
The clips of side characters bullying Hiccup was honestly so hurtful to watch 😥😥 youd think by now all of his friends would show much respect for him and to make the burn worse when he was insecure in some scenes none of his friends comforted him what the hell
Something hella misogynistic that's annoyed me even since my first view was also how they decided that the "Lesson" Astrid needed to learn in the third movie was.........how to be a supportive wife. As if her being the Only one to support Hiccup as far back as the first movie wasn't a HUGE part of why they even ended up together in the first place..???? Not to mention how it's V A L K A who somehow is the Vessel for this lesson, like "support your husband the chief
It would be funnier if Valka accidentally remembered her mistakes before Valka say: 'support your husband' until you have kids grown enough to not need milk and then -fake-your-death- *cough* I meant... run-away-with-a-dragon, BUT, make sure to tell your husband when he's being too annoying and don't fake your death...' Astrid: 'Hiccup, your mother is very weird... She said-' Astrid tells Hiccup, who looked at her while checking the map. Hiccup: 'Well, she faked her death, lived in the 'wilds with dragons without human contact', then learned her husband changed to love dragons and lost him in few days, then... well, I bet she feel guilty... maybe if she did things differently? Or if she was able to show dad dragons are good, without faking her death?'
Plus Astrid's "support" wasn't even really support. She just listened to Hiccup UNRIGHTLY bashing himself over things he had no control over, and then later went "Yup, very true but you're awesome still so go do things". That's not "harsh truth", that's essentially just adding to the guilt Hiccup feels for no reason. To quote Ruffnut from Race to thr Edge: Way to go, Astrid.
When I reached the bit where you discussed Toothless' personality change, my eyes were opened. I never realized how much he changed between films. I never liked the 3rd film, but realizing this makes me almost outright hate it. Interesting analysis! I liked this video a lot! Also, having read the books, there was a good reason for it story-wise to seperate humans and dragons. It was really heartfelt and tragic! Plus, made a lot more sense than in the movies.
Completely off-tangent, but the fact that Toothless isn't gray/black and instead a dark blue (as you mentioned 14:56) is an excellent detail the animators added! If you try hiding in the dark, wearing pure black or dark gray creates a sharp silhouette, which defeats the purpose of having a dark coat. Dark blue, however, is much better at camouflage, as your eyes can only really see blues and blacks in dim light. It compounds the idea that night furies are yes, nocturnal and yes, *need* to be able to hide in the dark, either bc their main prey is quick enough to react at the sight of them or their predators are able to eat them despite their speed and powerful (albeit limited) plasma blasts. If they really wanted the light fury to be a diurnal equivalent, they could have had her be a lighter blue instead, with the markings more pronounced. Or, they could have made her an amphibious equivalent, where the axolotl-like frills on her act like gills. Having a dark blue coat on top (similar to Toothless) and a white underbottom (as with many sea creatures) would have helped differentiate her well! Axolotls are excellent hunters too, but were also hunted to near extinction for human consumption. It would also explain the sleeker design as lotls have a mucous coating and why she's only just now making an appearance as lotls prefer cool water over cold and arrgh this movie frustrates me. (Sorry if I went on a rant, the first movie is just near and dear to me) (Also the background music you chose for this video is 👌)
I think a diurnal counterpart to a night fury would be a sort of mottled white and pale grey. The colouring to blend in with the near perennial cloud cover of northern skyscapes and the mottling to break up the silhouette. Blue as camouflage would work better in an environment like a desert where clear blue skies are the norm.
Toothless’s colour being very dark blue instead of true black because of how light works makes a lot of sense. It’s also why his dappled pattern is very believable, all those subtle differences in tone help to break up his shape in low light, exactly like the melanistic leopards and jaguars that were used as inspiration for his design. It’s a colour mutation similar to albinism but rather than a total lack of pigment, the melanin pigments that are responsible for dark colours like blacks and browns are much more abundant than is typical for a species, making that animal much darker in colour than it would usually be. In spotted animals like leopards and jaguars, melanism gives their coat a very dark rust brown colour that is almost black, but doesn’t actually make them the solid black that black panthers are often depicted being; they actually still have their spotted patterns, it just that the rest of their coat is so dark it is difficult to “spot”, pun absolutely intended. Whoever came up with Toothless’s final design for the original film clearly had these panthers in mind when they added the spots to the dark blue, which just really hones in on the whole black panther vibe they were going for. Night furies are meant to blend in with the night sky and in a natural setting, the night sky isn’t a featureless black void so it tracks that camouflaging against it requires also not being flat black. The night sky is typically a very dark purplish blue that is full of variations; the moon in its different phases, the stars, the clouds, time of night, and also living on the edge of the arctic circle where auroras occur, they’re all naturally occurring things that either cast light or change how that light behaves. It means that anything in between your eyes and the night sky is going to be backlit by all that ambient light, and that would mean a solid black object would appear as a black silhouette against the night sky. If that object was more of a dark desaturated blue with darker mottling on top however, it becomes much harder to distinguish it against the night sky. But if there was for instance, a much brighter light source (perhaps from some giant braziers and burning buildings) somewhere nearby but not in your line of sight that would cause the sky to appear much darker and only the brightest stars to be visible, a dark coloured object moving in front of those stars would become noticeable to any eagle eyed viewer. Which is exactly how Hiccup was able to just barely spot Toothless right before he shot him down in og HTTYD. I’d be willing to bet that without the light pollution given off by the village, he never would have been able to track his flight path nearly as well as he did.
the thing is Chris Sanders, who directed the original movie, didn’t work on sequels. that's why they seem so different. We should blame Dean DeBlois for all this
@@wwz8319 it was really dumb The villain, hiccup, the light fury, the plot, toothless and the dragons leaving, were all dumb. My biggest problem was probably how out of character toothless was
36:51 OMG! Someone else NOTICED! I loved the freckles, dirt & scars the Croods had but were smoothed over, yet somehow that took away from the beauty of their original look. Eep was allowed to keep some scars to look ‘tough’ in front of Dawn but even the unique features of her face were really toned down 😞 It would make sense for the Bettermans to look like this but not the Croods or even Guy who while used less rough means to survive still got dirty from time to time.
The light fury's design was a huge deal among the dragon communities I was a part of for the reasons you described. Lots of people "fixed" her design to make her more like how she should look without all those issues.
Another thing I noticedt is, that in the tv series, race to the edge it is mentioned multiple times, that the dragon of the twins cant be flown by one person so it doesnt make any sense, that he could just fly back home without his sister
If there's one trope I got so tired of for female characters is that so many love interests are designed with hearts, pink and just overly feminine features. Why are girls specifically associated with love hearts anyway? It's really weird.
This film has a ridicilous defeatist attitude. "Hey remember how we told (and showed) you again and again how we are stronger together? How we will not be put down by jerks and will change this world for the better bit by bit? Yeah screw all that. It's better to not even try so let the jerks ruin it for everyone and wait for the world to magically fix itself... even though we have already shown change requires effort. Now forget about your friends and ideals and go do some breeding instead. Cuz obviously you can't have both and chasing tail is the be all end all."
My interpretation of Toothless based on the first movie was simply that, the reason he was lighting and death itself was simply because his high degree of specialization made him almost impossible to actually counteract during the night and the reason he was the only one was he was simply stranded outside his usual habitat. The specialization bit is obvious as he’s only really more dangerous than other dragons at night and isn’t particularly bulky, plus dive bombing seems to make his blasts a lot stronger. However by stranded, I mean he is a southern species. I say this because up north, besides the fact they have no information on his species, black coloration would actually be disadvantageous due to the lower uv light levels, hence why usually the only species in northern climates that are fully black are bats, and even then they’re often brown. On top of that, night furies seem to have no natural competition around Berk. Not even a noticeable threat really. Beyond that, his traits seem completely unique to him with no real comparison. This all points to a species out of place. But yknow the later movies said he is simply a Godzilla, invisible, last of his species, dopey, dog gigachad so of course I’m sure they put a lot of thought into it.
I had the exact same thought about Toothless being stranded! I imagined Night Furies existing more on mid to west Europe. Toothless could've been seperated from his flock as a young dragon by a storm or something and ended up far north. Then, he ended up in the range of the brainwashing by the Red Death for some years. That would also explain why the Berkians have zero info on Night Furies: they've simply never had to deal with any before! I'm still so mad that Deblois doesn't treat Toothless as a character, imagine if the third movie was about Toothless finding back his family. Then you could have had the more book-like ending, with Toothless leaving with his family for a bit before returning to be with Hiccup again.
I figured the lightning part of his namesake was added because the sonic booms Night Furies make when diving, and the crack of his plasma blasts hitting their target almost sounds like thunder and lightning respectively. You hear the initial boom, and then the "lightning" strikes with a sharp cracking noise.
I’ve been waiting for a long video essay like this! Like many, I too was surprised that not many people were making videos on this movie and it’s confusing narrative choices, so seeing this pop up in my recommended videos was such an incredible surprise. I was sad and disappointed with the movie’s direction and how they made the characters feel like hollow shells of their former selves, especially with Toothless and Hiccup. I really dislike how toothless was just ready to leave Hiccup for a random girl he just met, what’s even worse is that they don’t even give the lightfury a name, and yet their offspring have names. I also don’t understand is why they never paid off the “He [Toothless] may very well be the last of his kind”, like, if there were ever to be a place to FINALLY see this paid off, it would have been in this protected “hidden world”. Like, what if instead of the lightfury and half baked romance, we had Toothless instead discover his long lost family or a small herd of other nightfury that managed to stay safe from [*Insert villain name] by hiding in the protected hidden world. Because realistically , I find it hard to believe that arguably the fastest, most elusive and intelligent dragon species got wiped out by some shallow whiney hunter with a shallow goal. I know that he’s smart and doesn’t HAVE to have a deep reason to hunt nightfury beyond wanting glory, but it makes him such a boring antagonist... Not to mention we’ve already seen this character trope done WAY better with Viggo from Race to the edge. Considering how many times they bring this “last of his kind” and “Hiccup and Toothless parting ways” plot points, I thought that the story conflict and reveal (before movie 3 came out) was finally going to pay this off by having the catalyst that would cause Hiccup and Toothless to part ways be for the protection of the few remaining nightfury. I personally feel that the dragons leaving was unnecessary and went against the themes previously seen in the movies and Tv shows, but Considering how determined they were to end with “There were dragons when I was a Boy” line from the book, they could have at least included a more realistic reason for the two to part ways, like Toothless finding his family/other nightfury and having to stay to protect them from extinction, instead of a cliché and shallow romance plot. Anyways, sorry for the rant! 😅 Thank you for you for all your hard work and creating a long in depth video about the issues we’ve all had towards the 3rd movie
Ayo thankyou!! I'm glad you enjoyed it :'] Also yeah I can kind of get never giving the light fury a name in this context cause she never like, domesticated, If you could say that- but they still could have. But then.. yeah naming the nightlights was really just- well! now it really doesn't make sense for them not to have named the LF :/// and yeah the no more night fury's thing was bs, I hate it, I'm glad so many people agree AGUYGDW. I think one of the original ideas for httyd3 included more night fury's as well. Sigh. But yeah I agree with you on all this obviously, the entire thing makes no sense- and Grimmel was indeed a half baked villian - especially compared to the villians previous. I haven't watched Race to the edge, but a fair few people have mentioned Viggo being a better villian than Grimmel now as well. also ur all good! rant away, and thanks again!
there's a post i found once that pieced together a scrapped httyd3 script seen in the bts videos. it had toothless leaving because his bond with hiccup was used against their flock, and finding more night furies in the hidden world with the help of stormfly. :(
HTTYD 2 was one of the best animated sequels to a series I have ever seen, in my personal opinion, despite its relatively minor design and character flaws. It wasn't afraid to delve into a darker and more serious storyline after the first movie's more comedy/friendship focused story. After the sequel was finished and the 3rd (supposedly final) movie was announced, I was very hyped up considering the director stated that they were going to follow a similar ending to the book series. Then the poster came out...then the trailer...and I lost all interest in the franchise. Literally. I only watched the 3rd movie once, and never have again. I've watched the 1st and 2nd movies more times than I can count. The 3rd movie just kind of back-peddled the story of the first two movies, more specifically the first one.
@@dragozillasaur813 I respect that you have an opinion. Some people just don’t have the movie criticism in them, an httyd 3 by itself is a cool movie: the only thing I don’t like about it is because it’s a sequel, if it was it’s own idea maybe it wouldn’t be so bad.
I am 100% right there with you. I loved the first one, but HTTYD 2 blew me away with just how damn good it was. Everything from the characters, score, themes, visuals, all of it, I loved it so much. Hiccup's speech at the end of the film made me more hyped than I have EVER been for an upcoming sequel. My mind went crazy imagining all the things that might happen and I trusted that the writers knew what they were doing (because it seemed like they had a solid plan and direction based on the first two films). But the 3rd movie, man... I don't think I've ever been more disappointed in a movie actually. It was horrible. And not even in a "oh, it was good but could have been better" kind of way. There is nothing redeemable about it.
Great video! Glad to see HTTYD3 criticism finally make it to the UA-cam/video essay realm. FYI about the HTTYD books, you're absolutely correct that basically the only things they share in common with the films is a few of the characters' names and the basic fact that it's about vikings and dragons, i.e. the films are an "in name only" adaptation. However, you were slightly off about the books portraying an "inherently unhealthy relationship" between dragons and humans -- it was definitely shown that the CURRENT paradigm of SOME humans abusing dragons (and enslaving other humans for that matter...) was wrong and could not be sustained, but it's not portrayed as something inherent or unchangeable to human nature, seeing as Hiccup himself treats dragons respectfully and fights to end slavery, and the whole exploitative system was only instituted due to the actions of one person in the not-so-distant past anyway. The overall themes of friendship and love overcoming obstacles are similar if not even more emphasized in some ways. Anyway, the ending in question -- all the dragons leaving -- happens only after a several-book-long WAR between (most) dragons and (some) humans where each is trying to exterminate the other. Long story short, Hiccup manages to end the war, but not without sacrifices, and most of the Dragon Rebellion can't bring themselves to forgive humankind. The Rebellion included the vast majority of dragons, hence their apparent extinction, but there were some notable exceptions who chose to live the rest of their lives with the humans they loved... most notably TOOTHLESS HIMSELF! Toothless is described as going off to visit the other dragons regularly, but always coming back to Hiccup, for the rest of Hiccup's life, because their bond is unbreakable! The supposed "ending where Toothless leaves" DOESN'T EVEN HAPPEN IN THE BOOKS! Almost as if the filmmakers didn't bother to actually read the books at all beyond that "there were dragons when I was a boy" excerpt without the important context needed to explain it! Wow! Trying not to get too outraged over fiction but dang it. The books are so under-appreciated in comparison to the films, so it sucks that the filmmakers willfully misrepresented what they're all about for the sake of a cheap tearjerker.
OHhhHHH I see! That's interesting, thankyou for telling me this! I probably should have done more researching about the books tbh >:"D Also yeah gosh, the 'it's human nature to be greedy' is such a bs thing, I just didn't bring it up int the video cause I didn't want to get into it (the more I think about it now tho, I kinda wish I did, but oh well augsef) - so yeah that's cool to see that idea in the books being challenged! I'm not surprised to hear that the filmmakers didn't read the books properly in that case as well ahygsuyef typical Anyways yea thanks for the comment, and for the compliment! I might pin ur comment so ppl know,,
You got the ending of the books wrong. Toothless did leave with the dragons, but would come back to visit Hiccup from time to time, but as time went on, the visits became more and more years apart to the point Hiccup said he felt the next visit would probably be the last.
@@willfanofmanyii3751 It's implied it'll be his last visit more so because Hiccup is an old man nearing his death rather than Toothless not returning. His extended absences are more about Toothless growing into his adulthood and becoming more independence, reassuring the reader that Toothless will be ok without Hiccup, rather than the two parting ways. If I remember right too, the Dragons don't immediately choose to leave but start doing so nearing his death for the reasons outlined, so they do try. And that's following a much heavier history with the humans than the films.
I love everything about this, but as a book reader, I want to give some extra clarity about the book series and it's ending, to really just hammer in the point WHY it was done, and why it worked, and why the decision to put that ending on the movies was disgusting, baffling, hollow, and completely unearned. MAJOR spoilers for the books, obviously. Also very long comment warning lol We know about the relationship between humans and dragons going back to about a thousand years before the start of the book series. Hiccup the first was born in a time when dragons and humans were enemies. They were at war with each other. But one day he found an injured dragon, nursed it back to health, and became the first human to ever befriend and fly with a dragon. Wodensfang (the dragon) gave Hiccup a jewel that could be used to destroy dragon kind as a sign of trust. Hiccup ended the war by threatening to use the Jewel, causing the dragons to back off. After that, dragons and humans became friends, they were equals. It's explicitly stated they "were fed first at every hunt, sat around the fire with men and gave their opinions before attacks." (This is a really fun example of the movies pulling stuff from the books, but still being it's own thing. The httyd1 plot is very similar to the story of Hiccup the first, but still changes it up and makes it it's own thing.) There's some grey area for the next 900 years or so, but by the time Grimbeard the Ghastly comes into power, about 100 years before the start of the books, the relationship was still pretty good, is a little strained. Grimbeard, however, was an asshole. He refused to take a brand given to kings (one Hiccup the first took as a sign of his friendship to Wodensfang and loyalty to the dragons) and instead declared that symbol the mark of a slave. He made it illegal to speak Dragonese (the dragon language) and enslaved dragons to build his empire. Grimbeards son, Hiccup the second, was raised by dragons after being sent away because he was a runt. He and his dragon brother, Furious, are captured by Grimbeard when the pair are teenagers. Grimbeard let his son stay, because he believed fate had allowed the boy to live, but Hiccup was not happy with seeing dragons being enslaved. He and Furious organised a peaceful demonstration to show that dragons were not a threat and could instead be friends. Grimbeard was tricked by his other son into believing this was going to be a violent attack, and murdered Hiccup the second. Furious was captured and imprisoned on the Island of Berserk, where he remained for 100 years, going mad with grief and rage. Hiccup the third is born into a world where dragons and humans work together, but the relationship tends to lean closer to master and pet, though there are absolutely still dragons enslaved. Hiccup the third eventually finds and frees Furious who, enraged at humanity for the harm they've done, and will do to dragons (Furious can literally see the future) gathers an army of dragons and begins an all-out war. Dozens of tribes are forced to flee their homes, which are turned to ash by the dragons. Eventually Furious confronts Hiccup the Third again, and they talk it out. Hiccup promises to do everything he could to help dragons, Furious gets stabbed with a deadly poisonous blade by a witch that crawls around like a dog, and Hiccup suggests that if things are not better by the time he is old, the dragons could begin to hide. Furious, actively dying from the poison, agrees this is a good idea and decides to be the first to leave, returning to the deep sea to die in peace. By the time Hiccup is old, things have not gotten good enough, and the dragons slowly start to leave. Wilder species first, ones you wouldn't even know were missing, then slowly, over many years, more common ones pulled away too. But even after years upon years of the dragons slowly leaving, Toothless still stays with Hiccup. He's not there all the time, but he always comes back. It is EXPLICITLY STATED in the books "they didn't all leave at once" The decision for the dragons to leave is also made BY THE DRAGONS, without any input by Hiccup himself. He suggested the initial idea, but it was Luna, the dragon queen, who made the decision for dragons to begin to hide. These are sentient creatures with language, traditions, and culture that is very deliberately compared to that of the vikings. For all intents and purposes, dragons are humans with weirder bodies. 1000+ years of a cycle of violence, with dragons being explicitly portrayed as just as intelligent and sentient as people, and a final all-out war with thousands of dragons, led by a dragon that makes the Bewilderbeast look piddly in comparison, versus all of human kind, was what it took for the dragons to leave in the books. In the movies is was a skinny white twink who's only goal was to kill a single individual dragon and had like 6 dragons under easily-breakable mind control to help him that had Hiccup (and Hiccup alone) making the decision that every single dragon needed to leave right this instant. Like, even with the most basic, surface-level understanding of the books, the idea of putting their ending onto the movies was baffling. And then when you actually know the plot of the books, it gets so, so much worse. And isn't helped by Grimmel being a piss-poor threat (that doesn't even crack the top 3 in terms of villains who caused genuine harm and posed genuine threat) that in no ways warrants the insane response he's given. Especially since HIS GOAL in the film (alongside killing 1 dragon) was to make humans and dragons not coexist anymore!
Oh my that's a lot of lore, I didn't know the books were so in depth! :0 and some of that seems pretty dark for a kids story too, wow In any case HAHA. All this just makes the movie more and more embarrassing and nonsensical, huh lmao tho even if the movies followed the way the book did it with all the dragons leaving slowly n' all, the books and movies still are not related in the slightest- they don't make sense to the end the same way even remotely also I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Beautiful Gudrun And they actually go out of the way to 'make fun' of the source Material in Race to The Edge. Just look at this nonsensical exchange between Hiccup and Alvin who were Mortal Enemy's in the books. [Hiccup: Hi Alvin! Great to See you!-----Alvin: Same to you Hiccup!] that doesn't even go anywhere. Writers were just laughing at the expense of the book fans! And that scene were Snotlout was trying to become king of that one lady's tribe in Race to Edge. She told him "If you wish to be King, survive taking this Arrow to your Heart." Not only did book Snotlout want to be King taking an arrow to the chest was exactly how he met his death while defending Hiccup. That like Dean claiming his version is "More than a little dragon that talks." is just unforgivable.
Interesting! I thought the books were totally different than that and were extremely childish (the one I read had Hiccup and Toothless and was branded as the first book. It was very childish). So, I assume the books don’t have a chronological order and are random stories, or the first book was a sequel and the other books are prequels? I’ve been meaning to buy them for a few years now but I never have! I only have the audiobook version lol!
@@pizzatime3752 No. it's an chronological story. It's similar to Harry Potter in how it starts relatively light and silly but gets steadily darker the deeper you go in. Funnily enough like Wings of Fire (Which is an Brutal series!) it never received the YA label despite how dark it winds up getting. I actually never thought the original book that childish. Just read-over that part with The Green Death! That sea- serpent is really freakin' deep and scary. Like Hannibal Lector as an Dragon!
God I’m glad you commented on toothless’s eyebrows. The first movie had a little “design philosophy” bonus feature that I watched on loop as a kid and can NOT find on UA-cam but it talked about how carefully the animators handed Toothless’s facial rigging, modeling, and expressions because they wanted him to be expressive, but not extremely human like. They specifically commented on how they didn’t want him to have very distinct eyebrows because it made him too human
I’m also wondering what happened to Dagger and Heather, I feel like it would be awkward if they met up again and only they had dragons, hearing that toothless left hiccup because he found a female. Because before, in gift of the Nightfury, toothless did not want to fly on his own, and he only wanted to fly with hiccup, as one. But as soon as a female is introduced, toothless wants to straight up leave and abandon his only life for some slimy looking sparkle dragon.
@@nataliefoley5922 Those were Wing Maidens. Defenders of the Wing are the group lead by Mala that protects dragons and is under the protection of Eruptodon. If he leaves their Island, they're gonna quite literally perish-
Counter-arguments for this movie's massage: 1. Movie: Hiccup and Toothless need to grow up and become the independant leaders they are meant to be and dragons aren't safe on Earth so let's relocate them in a cave under the surface. Also movie: Hiccup and Toothless relied on each other by the end of the movie to fight Grimmel. If Hiccup didn't let go off of light fury than Toothless would've died, and if light fury didn't come to pick Hiccup up than he would've died. Essentially, the movie shows that the Berkians and dragons still need each other. 2. Hiccup: We need to move all the dragons to the hidden world. Also Hiccup: I want to move all of us to the hidden world where we'll be safe from hunters and live alongside our dragons. 3. Stoick: Tells Hiccup that losing Valka was painful but saying goodbye is necessary. Also Stoick: Sees Valka alive and kicking in HTTYD2 so suddenly saying goodbye ISN'T necessary. Again, was it really impossible to move the Berkians alongside the dragons to the hidden world?
First of all, I don't think you realize that Grimmel and other dragon hunters wouldn't be threatening Hiccup if dragons seemed to no longer exist. Second of all, the rumblehorn literally attacked Hiccup and Astrid on sight unprovoked, attempting to move to the hidden world with so many humans that would cause many human casualties. Also, they would have to mess up the beautiful landscaping to make way for their village.
@@_-NatureMations-_ 1. Hunters threatened Berk because they wanted their dragons for themselves. If the Berkians had let their dragons to the hidden world, hunters would still be threatening them to get knowledge about their dragons' whereabouts. 2. The rumblehorn attacked them because the dragons in the hidden world hate humans. However, if after the fight with Grimmel, the Berkians had arrived in the hidden world, and Toothless and light fury had insisted on giving the Berkians a chance for coexistence, the dragons in the hidden world would've been like "We can trust light fury so perhaps we can give the Berkians a chance". It's a matter of opinion, and opinions can change. 3. I mean, I get what you're saying about the beauty of the place, but it's so big I don't think a portion of it being dedicated to the Berkians would've been such damaging to the overall view of the place.
@@roiitzkovich4545 But what do you mean the dragons gave the lightfury a chance?? She was probably born there giving that we see other Lightfuries there
@@_-NatureMations-_ Exactly! And because they trust light fury, if she says the Berkians are good people and deserve to live in the hidden world, the dragons in the hidden world would've agreed.
@Roi Itzkovich But dragons are more intelligent than your average wolf. Most of them would likely have lost family to humans. That would be like if your mom told you that a bunch of random serial killers were moving in and to trust them because she makes the rules.
I have to thank you for making this video. You put into words the things ive thought for ages and was unable to vocalize. I always found myself rewatching the first movie, quite a few times but never even felt the desire to rewatch the third. Yet could never really put my finger onto w h y exactly. However, it gets even worse when you also take into consideration both the canon shows, defenders of berk and race to the edge. ESPECIALLY Race to the edge. The characterization in that show is infinitely better than the third movie, giving all characters quite heartfelt and important moments. Not to mention, they claim in the third movie that theyve never dealt with a threat like this. Aka a villain of equal intelligence to hiccup. EXCEPT THEY DID. Someone who was arguably smarter than hiccup and won against the group several times, and not because the group was incompetent. God its so frustrating. And yes, the shows are considered canon. The third movie just throws so much character building out of the window in favor of a bad romance story and bad humor. And it hurts because its a franchise i hold incredibly close to heart ;-;
Ah man I'm really glad to hear that! :0 Thankyou for watching it! and oh I didn't know some of the shows were considered canon? Huh... also man that's really just sad to hear that even the characterisation in the shows was better than it was in the third film, that is embarrassing >:"D Maybe I'll have to take a peek at some of them, you've made me curious
@@MyUniverseinaBox I absolutely love race to the edge honestly. It is miles better than the third movie in terms of storytelling and takes place before the second movie, and adds context to a lot of things that were introduced in that movie. Plus that show has my absolute favorite villain from the entire series. Wont spoil the guy but youll know him when you see him. Imagine Grimmel but better in every way. I have to stop myself from rambling about the show for ages but ill say this. All the side characters are actually portrayed more like humans. Even Snotlout and the Twins get quite important moments which hurts even more when you see the third film absolutely butcher them. Defenders of Berk takes place right after the first movie Race to the Edge Right before the second movie Even if i prefer race to the edge, i still recommend watching the first show because some characters in there show up in the second show and else you miss a little bit of context To me the shows are what the third movie should have been. Anyway, ill stop my ramblings now, i went on for long enough lmao. Thank you again for the amazing video, its easy to see how much time and effort you put into this beast of a video. Id join the patreon but im a little broke rn lol, buuut ill continue to follow your da since thats how i even found the vid lmao
@@onyxaria2839 ohhh now you've definitely made me curious! haha I'm getting quite a few ppl recommending the shows to me now actually aihuisef man :'] and that's fine! The thought means a lot, like a lot a lot... thankyou sm!
I absolutely agree with Onyxaria, especially how you put to words why The Hidden World didn't hit the way I was expecting. And yeah Grimmel is just rip off of the villain from RTTE, which made it so disappointing. I've liked the second movie more than the first for a while, but now I'm also noticing a few things that didn't line up or live up to par given how good RTTE was. 100% recommend.
*Another detaill of toothless design, and is that in the first movie his head was perfectly aerodynamic, the second one was not as aerodynamic but still was there, and in the third one they throwed the aerodynamic shape out of the window, his head is more shaped like a generic dragon for the "fastest dragon flying", oh well, i guess this explains why he was gliding in the air more than flying. This doesn't bothers me as much as the others aspects of the movie and i don't think is that important but still it's sad for a cool design detaill*
No absolutely, I agree when I said aerodynamic I really meant that in every aspect the shovel shaped head was an important part of that, and they completely destroyed it
Grimmel not getting his Night Fury facts straight (wdym they can't fly for long distances when LITERALLY IN THE SAME MOVIE the entire clan flies for a DAY or longer towards their new home. Plus toothless is the most aerodynamic of dragons with huge wings, wdym Grimmel??) and straight up having a bad story about how he killed a night fury, supposedly all night Furies, bragging about it but not wearing their skin for clothes or something makes it seem like he just puts up a front to come off as scary. Sorry DeBlois but your lousy excuse of why toothless is the last of his kind is stupid and makes no sense.
You forgot the part where he said they don't survive the Cold... If I could post images in YT comments I would send a whole album of screenshots of Toothless having the time of his life in the snow or all the lines where Hic says that Berk is extremely cold lol
@@giulf3der957Exactly. And it’s not like Toothless doesn’t fly high in the air, where it’s really cold, especially if it’s already freezing on ground/ sea level… Really, if they wanted Toothless to be the last of his species, they should’ve done better (which he didn’t have to be- DeBlois gave as an excuse that Toothless had to be special, but he deadass already is with his alpha powers and being the only Night Fury the Berkians have ever seen up close). This reason disappointed me because it’s pretty impossible to hunt down an entire species that’s not only the fastest and most intelligent of all dragons, but already rare and very solitary to begin with. Nobody had ever seen a Night Fury until Hiccup shot Toothless down, and we gotta believe that some skinny guy with thin lips hunted down all the others? Please. Finally meeting another NF after being mysterious about it was probably what kept a lot of people invested in the franchise. A better reason would be that nobody knows if they’re extinct because they’re just _that_ elusive, and the real reason would be because Night Fury territories are HUGE, and because they’re solitary like tigers. DeBlois is said to have given another stupid excuse to why they didn’t have Toothless have another Night Fury for a mate: “Kids wouldn’t be able to tell him and his mate apart if we did.” Just make her dark blue like Toothless was in 1 and give her a different eye color and maybe a different tail fin shape like they did with the one male light fury cameo we got in 3. Kids aren’t stupid bro 🤦
@@Ned-nw6ge For real 100% Also I agree, at least leave the mystery unresolved on wether there's more or not, instead of straight up saying in the interviews "no they're all dead😁✨️", if they said this stuff only in the move then some people would've still questioned it, like we ARE questioning if Grimmel is even telling the truth or not, but the producers just brushing off such plot point like that... meh, I didn't like a bunch of things they claimed tbh, and this is one of them. Yesss!!! Make her different!! Make her a different shade of black, blue, grey, give her more visible patterns, different tail shape idk something!!! A thing that could've been awersome to see is if she was albino so she has issues with staying out in the sun and thats why he decided to stay with her at the end of the movie, to protect her. They would have continued the themes of disability, instead of getting rid of it entirely with the auto tail. (Also, yeah, even if its automatic it still needs manteinance, so maybe the story could've ended with the dragons leaving -or staying- but Toothless and the albino fury coming back in the night to get the tail repaired every once in a while)
FOR REAL! I honestly wanna know why they decided '' You know what, lets make Toothless and everyone else leave their loved ones for the hidden world for.. i dont know '', honestly they had a good chance at getting the classic happy ending but they just decided to not use it and instead use it when it dosent really make sense, like when Toothless was getting attacked by the deathgrippers he could have easily gotten atleast a little bit injured because of the fact they can litteraly just spray acid everywhere if they wanted too, and dont forget their scorpion-like tails.
Just a mention, green death is not the one in the first film, that's the red death! She has a very neat design in my opinion and is one of my top favorites along with zipplebacks and cloudjumper
Yeah I had someone else point this out a bit ago as well oops HAHA I originally had it all written as the 'red death' in the entire script, but I searched it up just to double check and make sure I had it right and it gave me the name 'green death' so I corrected it to that - I didn't realise that was the name of a similar looking but different dragon pFT And yeah they do have pretty neat designs! Cloudjumper is very high on the list of fav dragons for me as well love that one
@@MyUniverseinaBox Thanks for responding, neat vid too! Randomly this got recommended even if my casket of hatred for the issues in the 3rd movie died down a few months back lol, still more things to look out for though
@@MyUniverseinaBox Please don't feel too bad getting the red and green deaths mixed up; not even the franchise is consistent about it. The dragon in the first movie is specifically referred to as the "Green Death" in the movie's score (the piece that plays over the fight scene is called 'Battling the Green Death'). It was first called the "Red Death" in the first season of the TV show, and subsequent media kept using it. I assume the production notes from the first movie called it the Green Death, and for some reason or another, a higher up made the decision to change it during the production of later installments of the franchise.
After the movie was over in the first watching I knew I didn't like it. Mainly, and I do nearly mean solely, because of the message. *Stronger together*. The first and second built up with ultimately helpful symbiotic relationships. One that was real and earned its right to be there. Then at some push back they throw it all away for the, "benefit," of the crew. NO! I have had friends before, I have had pets before, they are worth fighting for. I prematurely had them removed from my life under the gauze of benefit, when it ultimately made me more lonely. Also, logically speaking, there is no way the, "all dragons going into the hole," thing works. No way. There are absolutely dragons that would want to stay in their homes. They are living things with personalities. The only way that step was taken was because toothless forced all of these creatures down without their consent. Which is cruel.
Here's another point. Grimmel is not a "corruption arc version" of Hiccup. It's what they tried to do, but they failed - and the reason is very simple. Hiccup chose to save the Night Fury after struggling to bring himself to kill it. He was torn between his compassion for the creature and his longing for his village's approval. Grimmel, apparently, killed his downed Night Fury without a moment's thought. And that's the problem. In order to work as Hiccup's dark mirror, Grimmel needs to have faced that same binary choice and struggled with it. He needs to be shown to have compassion for dragons in the first place in order to reject it. If Grimmel's decision to kill the Night Fury was easy, then he is not similar to Hiccup at all. He is in fact the furthest thing removed from Hiccup imaginable. An actual dark mirror-villain for Hiccup would have been a Grimmel who stifled his compassion and killed that Night Fury, earning his community's respect at the cost of his true self. He has since hardened himself and is cruelly using dragons as his slaves, perfecting his technological prowess to disguise his physical frailty, and it has secretly made him bitter and paranoid. He's waging an endless battle against himself. Compassion for dragons is still in him somewhere, but he would never, ever let it out - because he is terrified that his community, to whose standards he's desperately trying to conform, would cast him out instantly. A fitting end for a villain like that (rather than unceremoniously dropping him off a cliff) could be a situation where he has to relive that binary choice - save the dragon or save himself - but this time, he makes the right choice. He chooses to save the dragon and it gives him peace, but he dies as a result.
My biggest gripe with the movie is how Astrid handles the situation after Toothless was captured. Like, Hiccup is having this whole self doubt moment and she's not only letting him, but also telling him he's right?? I get that she supports him later, but like wtf Astrid. Hiccup says: "I shouldn't have dragged you out there, he wouldn't have flown me back, she wouldn't have followed." First of all, Hiccup did not drag Astrid anywhere. If my memory serves (and it does) then it was ASTRID who told Hiccup to climb on, so if anything, that's on HER! Second of all, Hiccup had no way of knowing bringing Toothless back would endanger him. First of all, they just dropped an entire tower on top of Grimmel. For all Hiccup knows, he could be dead! Secondly, they have an entire flock of dragons that could EASILY take out Grimmel's armada. Hiccup had NO WAY of knowing Toothless would just let them all get captured. That aside, he had no way of knowing Ruffnut was coming back and Grimmel was tracking her so, again, how is that his fault exactly? Finally, how was he supposed to know the Light Fury would follow them back and how was he supposed to know this would be an issue? Hiccup was not aware that the Light Fury was placed there by Grimmel. He never found that out, did he? Plus she is skitish and stays away from humans. For all he knew, she might've stayed in the hidden world. Either way, the entire thing is just an big line of coincidences that one human couldn't possibly forsee. Hiccup blames himself because, I don't know, that's how self doubt works. He blames himself for so many things in this movie even though 90% of the issues can be traced back to Toothless' idiotic character writing, yet instead of slapping some sense into Hiccup and telling him how wrong he is, ASTRID AGREES WITH HIM?! Like even if Hiccup was some kind of super genius who knows everything about the world, there was too much going on for him to put together and prevent. I think it's really stupid that throughout the movie Hiccup constantly takes the blame for everything when most of the bad things happening are a strike of sheer bad luck (and Toothless being a horrible Alpha).
Also to add to that: For all Hiccup knew, Toothless could already be on his way back naturally dragging the Light Fury behind, which would've had the same outcome either way so...???
The biggest problem I had is how needlessly harsh the movie is towards Hiccup. The movie wants us to not only believe that Hiccup is in the wrong for wanting to go to the hidden world, but also think that Hiccup is somehow being selfish with Toothless what that's far from the case Firstly the reason Hiccup wanted to go to the hidden world was so that Berk and its dragons could be safe, sure it was a risky move but it wasn't out of selfishness or wanting to prove something, he just thought it would be best for everyone Secondly Hiccup was never once clingy or trying to force Toothless to stay with him, in fact he understood that his friend was lonely. Not only was he trying to help Toothless win the lightfury's affection, but he later on made the tail that allowed Toothless to fly on his own. If Hiccup really was being selfish like the movie wants us to think he wouldn't have tried to help Toothless, I mean for crying out loud he specifically said that he wanted Toothless to be happy when he was making the tail, sure he thought that the lightfury could be tamed, but when he saw Toothless genuinely happy with her in the Hidden World, you can tell that he realises that this might be what's best for him and the only reason that Toothless left was so he can bring him and Astrid to safety Thirdly because the movie thinking that Hiccup is in the wrong when he isn't, when the characters call him out they come across as a bunch of dicks towards Hiccup, constantly making fun of him for his appearance and his choices (yeah the other films and shows did this occasionally but was never this frequent) even Astrid comes across as especially harsh towards Hiccup. I'm not saying that Astrid needs to agree with Hiccup, but she didn't need to be as harsh as she was with him (like the whole 'embracing change' moment made me want to face-palm) To put it bluntly the movie felt like it wanted an excuse to bully Hiccup for a hour, so it came up with a dumb excuse to do so
Hiccup: "I wanna bring everyone to the Hidden World so we can all live in peace together!" Everyone else in this movie: "Wtf, are you dumb??? Clearly that doesnt work, omg are you stupid, just give up and send all the dragons away, because that clearly is the only option you should have even CONSIDERED"
Hiccup is a human and toothless is a sentient animal. Animals can't possibly be selfish or wrong, they are perfect in every way, humans are bad no matter what they try to do and we need to bully them. Thats essentially what the movie said.
Snotlout being “this guy” hurts my soul 😭 He’s a good boy I promise, this movie did him so dirty!! The tv and Netflix series have so much more of these incredible characters with focus episodes, dynamics, relationships and actual brains. This movie and what the movies do with Hiccup’s “friends” other than (and unfortunately sometimes including) Astrid is painful..
This film ruined snotlout for me. Starting from the older series (riders and defenders of berk) where he was unlikable at first until race to the edge where he slowly started to have a better character development. Until the third film, he became unlikable again, who was annoying and acting like a weirdo and simp toward hiccup's mother. Ew. As for the other characters, they became annoying as well, except for astrid. These are one of the other nitpicks I had with this movie.
It's funny because despite the message that the third movie wanted to shove down your throat on how it's better for both the humans and the dragons. The special that came after this How To Train Your Dragon: Homecoming ( because even though this studio stomped on the franchise it also refuses to let it die)... doesn't even support it's own dang message to show the benefits. The new generation completely forgot about dragons, Hiccups daughter finds the book that describe them as monsters ( why they haven't thrown that out is anyone's guess), and now fears them, and Valka just vanished off the face of the earth without a mention to even interact with her granddaughter that doesn't like dragons- and Toothless daughter is clearly bored with her life in the Hidden World. And the only reason the dragons and humans didn't reunite earlier is because Toothless is so henpecked by The Light fury that when she objects to the idea of visiting Hiccup, he just goes along with it. The series could have ended on a hopeful note with Hiccup and Toothless daughters becoming friends given we see the consequences of the separation involving those two and how they could have made for a better future that Hiccup and Toothless failed at but whatever. And I know you mentioned that you haven't seen any of the spin off series, but trust me- all of the dragons going to the hidden world becomes even more non nonsensical because there are dragons that straight up can't even fly or swim. Side note, I couldn't stretch my suspension of disbelief that Grimmel single handily killed ALL of the Night Furies even during my first watch. Even more so after you pointed out how many godlike abilities they gave Toothless as the movies went on, which you would assume that other Night furies could do as well AND the fact that he killed a beefy man like Stoick in one hit WITHOUT those power ups. Toothless easily could have turned Grimmel into dust. Anyways, sorry for the rant. There is so much about the third movie that bugs me so much, and this was a very good video essay regarding the flaws of it.
The Light Fury has Toothless on an invisible leash. She orders him around and he goes along with it because he’s a simp. Some alpha you are, Toothless.
@@OneBrokenEgg Especially that one scene where they nuzzled each other, and whether on purpose or not, she basically rizzed him up with her tail and got he looked wayyy too happy for that to happen- I even saw people commenting "he's ready for more babies" like that's just his character now.. :(
@@OneBrokenEgg yeh that toothless is crap, the toothless from the the other 2 movies would never do that. They really just crushed his character. Toothless isn’t even toothless anymore.
This video encapsulates everything I thought upon leaving the theatre after seeing the movie. I was crushed. It didn't make sense why they changed so much about the characters, especially Toothless, just to get to this ending. We weren't really given a reason to like the Light Fury or root for Toothless to be with her, either. I don't remember crying, but being confused. I honestly think HTTYD 2 should have been it, I adore that movie so much and it was very strong sequel building upon what happened in the first movie.
What enrages me more than the movie itself and than the disdain and retcon Dreamworks showed the franchise ? How the general audience absolutely adores it to this day and calls it the perfect ending. Lots of praises, just when you look at react videos or fanwork and people defending the Light Fury. A wonder how they loved the first movies if they love equally the movie that shits on them
@@primevalyautja1305 no because I don't even like HTTYD 2 and think it should have been one movie, but HTTYD 2 at least doesn't retcon everything and respects the characters and story
I heard somewhere that the writers wanted to do something more with Dragos' fleet, but they had to make a new character (Forced to). Doesn't excuse the bad story but I guess they knew what to do better with what they wanted to do
Oh wow that's unfortunate :/ I'm almost certain that many ppl behind this prolly had much better ideas- basically artists who actually wanted to write a good story but ofc capitalists get their greasy hands on everything
1:00:08 "everything he's ever worked for, gone." Precisely. If only that statement would be shown in a way to make Hiccup realize that being afraid of losing makes him only lose and lose more.
I'd even argue Toothless' more sleek design was shown by the fact he is meant to be an unseen fast force that strikes quickly. Where he was "unseen" and they could only identify a nightfury by the sound of the fireball charging up. Even in the first movie you can hear the wind up and that's when they call out Night fury" to each other. Plus the sound of him flying
@Good Man It's why I couldn't bring myself to care when he left. I kept expecting the real Toothless to jump out of a bush afterward asking, "Is he gone?"
About the point of the Lightfury design, Stormfly and Meatlug are female dragons and yet appear very dragonesque. Why did they do this with the Lightfury?
Most people talking about complaints, but before I mention mine, I have to say, this video's really well made considering your setup. The little black lizard avatar is just so derpy and cute, captures your expressions perfectly, and I really like it for that. This is a pretty great video, both well made and valid in all points. But here's a complaint you should've mentioned: most people complain that the Light Fury doesn't get much screentime, but very few notice how the Hidden World, the thing the movie is named after, gets even less. If I remember correctly, it was on screen for five minutes AT MAXIMUM. What??? Isn't that the main part of the movie??? Why the movie is named after it??? Seriously, it should've been an actual main setting for the movie. Maybe a Hidden World of Night Furies or something.
@@MyUniverseinaBox Yeah, it's really cute. And this movie's frustrating on many levels. I did meet a pretty toxic fan earlier, too, who said I know nothing about media for criticising exactly what this movie is trying to force us to believe. Can't believe some people fell for it. I don't criticise fans unless they call ME dumb for being logical. But anyway, great vid. You should make more reviews.
It was so strange to leave the theater feeling kind of empty while seeing nothing but praise for it online. The ending of this movie shattered the entire point of 1 and 2. Despite their differences and despite how difficult it was, humans and dragons lived together. Nothing could separate them from each other. They fought off a huge dragon in the second movie and a much more dangerous villain, but the skinny dude who could barely control dragons is what got the Vikings to leave the dragons? What the hell?
Thanks for this. I'm happy for the people who came out enjoying this film and finding it a satisfying conclusion, but I never could. Seriously, the relentless bullying of Hiccup and the undertones of romantic love being more important than platonic love left a really sour taste in my mouth after walking out of the theater. Not to mention that whole idea that 'growing up' means giving up on old friends and dreams forever. I *hate* that message in stories. In a story--when a bond/dream is set up as being incredibly profound and important--having it cut away because it's suddenly "immature" is... really off-putting. Does saying goodbye and moving on happen in real life? Sure, absolutely. But I have yet to see that message handled well in recent memory, despite it being a pretty common theme lately. Anyway if you want a story about the bond between an actual, grown man and his intelligent, special, black dragon that takes place in the real world and they *don't* get separated by the end because it'd make absolutely zero sense to do so, just read the Temeraire series.
@@AmirPrinceling I hope you do! The dragons of the Temeraire series are some of my favorite portrayals of "what if dragons existed in our world" I've encountered. Each culture the characters encounter handles the dragons differently, and the subject of a dragon's place in various societies and how they impact the culture is a huge deal in the books. ...Not to say everything is dragon social justice though. It's the Napoleonic wars with a draconic air force--there's lots of battle and travel and diplomacy too. But the dragons are on par with the range of human intelligence, so the question of their being viewed as actual people is always on the fringes. Being vaguely spoilery here, but by the end there are steps being made to improve said place in the main (human) character's home country after seeing how the dragons are treated elsewhere in the world. Things don't end with everything magically better, nor do they up and leave just because humankind is mean (cough, cough), but improvement is happening and hope is on the horizon. Dragons are being represented in government, for example. Which without context is probably a funny image, but it was something that's been building up for a while. It's basically the other side of the coin to the HTTYD books--and certainly the opposite outcome of the third film. ...And that turned into more of a mini-essay than I thought, ha ha.
@pocketscarf You've intrigued me even more now, it sounds like a great mix of character-driven stories as well as world building and politics, definitely gonna check it out
This video is my found comfort. It seems like the whole world liked this film and I always felt like my opinion was wrong, but I finally found someone who shares my opinion. I can finally rest, thank you.
Very well done video, I especially appreciate your honesty about defending the LF with the aqua dragon reasoning, I honestly thought that when I saw the poster because I had that much faith in the series. And GOD this film did the cast sooooo DIRTY, the shows did them all great, the twins are the street smartest people on Berk, Snotlout is a hard head with a heart of gold and great with baby dragons, Fishlegs is a walking encyclopedia who infodumps about dragons and a great thinker, Astrid is a defense and weapons specialist, and Hiccup is the strategist. The last movie the biggest spit in the face to fans I’ve ever seen and everyone I’ve seen calls it rain. This movie isn’t cannon to me, it contradicts previously established points in the MOVIES, (Ex:the cold and distance NF thing) and also disgraced the series moral of “Friendship and platonic love is powerful, and you should fight for what you believe in even if the world is against you” and it’s AGGRAVATING, to see it devolve to “procreation is the peak of existence drop everything and everyone else to fulfill this because this is the peak of life” which is SO wrong, misogynistic, homophobic, stupid, ableist, and all around horrible. What a terrible ending. Sorry about the rant once again I love the video and I’m so thankful you made this. ❤
mAN YEAH EXACTLYYY I haven't watched any of the shows but I get what you mean Httyd3 is the biggest slap in the face to httyd fans it's just rghgh I don't consider it canon either HAHA Also nah man you're good! And I'm so glad to hear you enjoyed the vid!
And then when you try to point it out people tell you "But she's not a nightfury, she's a lightfury, of course she's different" I'm not arguing that she is different. I'm arguing that they obviously tried as hard as they could to make her female. One step forther and we would've had a dragon with boobs. Nobody looks at Toothless and think "boy". You just think dragon. But when you look at the lightfury, you think "female, toothless girlfriend" and eventually, maybe, you'll think dragon
@@Hadeshy Also the colors too- they specifically made her "angelic" and glittery... And pink and white might be the most "female" identified colors to people's eyes
I didn't like how Toothless's design and personality became more and more cartoonish with each sequel. That and how he went from facing the main threat through strategy to getting an unnecessary power-up for convenience. And the light fury looks more like a giant baby. In any case I preferred to see another Night Fury. Another mistake is that with each new antagonist the Vikings of Berk prefer to hide or abandon Berk, since from the first film it is mentioned that they are so stubborn that they efused to leave their home. Furthermore, it does not make sense that at the end of HTTYD3 the Vikings abandoned their dragons, leaving themselves more vulnerable to future invasions when their tamed dragons already gave them an advantage over the others. And that flock was just a minority. There was still an entire population of wild dragons living outside the hidden world, not counting the marine species.
Thanks I’m not the only one who didn’t like toothless getting powers out the no where He didn’t need to be the king of dragons I didn’t feel like that fit him I miss when it was just him and the rest of the gang dragons and I miss when he was just a fast mysterious dragon not the strongest but his team works helps him defeat stronger dragons
59:32 Something that gave me chills when it was teased long before the third movie’s release was a line from Hiccup that went something like “When I was a boy, there were dragons.” I was sad but intrigued to see what sort of monstrous threat caused such devastation and an epic but melancholy end to this story. The third film finally comes out and…it’s an over saturated and thirsty film where hiccup just…gives up? He’s gaslit into thinking it’s okay and even healthy for everything he worked for to just end?
I really didnt like how they just said the deathgrippers are evil. They were just drugged! Even in the TV Shows dfenders of berk and race to the edge it was Shows that dragons that are pretty aggressive like whispering deaths, speed stingers or typhomerangs sre not evil, just terretorial or just a bit more aggressiv than other species but NOT evil.
Great essay, gave me some much-needed perspective on the films. I never was comfortable with how Tuffnut behaved with that "pep talk", having a mobility disability myself, and I'm glad someone else seems to have noticed as well. Lot of other great points too, like the light fury's design or reversal of character development
Thankyou!! I'm glad I could offer something new :0 Also yeah I was honestly quite surprised to see no other video criticising this movie mention the really blatant ableism :/
@MyUniverseinaBox everyone ignored it because apparently they test showed the scene to disabled people and they found the joke funny so people think it excuses it
@@echoless3474 Oh yikes... LMAO I hear that kind of argument often with many topics and it's genuinely insane "some ppl from the oppressed group think its okay to oppress them so now it is ok!!! see??? They agree!!!"
Yeah, I never heard anyone talk about it either. Kind of wish I was still unaware of it. Love when a movie tells me my disabilities makes me unnattractive...
@@MyUniverseinaBox yeah.. even if disabled people actually find it funny it's still a little distasteful for an able-bodied character to make such joke towards a disabled one isn't it? If it was made by another disabled character it would be less ugly.. still weird but eh
THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO!!! AAAAAHH!!! I have so many things i want to say that I'm having trouble composing a comment lmao. You had me fucking vibrating in my chair gripping the edge of the desk screaming at the screen that THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING FOR FUCKING YEARS!!! You touched on pretty much every single frustration I've ever had with that movie. Every time i thought to myself "hm i hope she addresses this other specific thing that just came to mind that makes me upset", within ten minutes you were talking about it. I'm going to start sending this video to people who ask why I'm not a fan of THW. I can't believe I'm only finding your channel now, a year later, from a random comment on twitter.
Personally, I liked the idea that Night Furies are like the Tomcats, F-35s or the owls of dragons. Nothing incredibly interesting about them when you get a good look at them, they look and act more like big cats. But the incredible thing about them is that they’re specialists. In the dark or the night sky, their blueish black, ink-patterned scales make them nearly invisible, and they’re fast, insanely fast, whether in the air or on foot, you’ll never see them coming until it’s far, *far* too late. But the scariest thing about them is that they’re smart, too smart. They’re cunning, conniving and ruthless. They can kill you in ways you’ll never expect. Also, Toothless was literally a rizz god in the first film. Hiccup could never pull Astrid even while he’s showing her up in training, so Toothless did the pulling for him, he immediately took control of the situation, put Astrid’s attitude in check and then gave her a show no Viking has ever experienced.
My jaw genuinely hit the floor when I heard that one comment Tuffnut made about Hiccup's prosthetic leg. I didn't remember that at all and it shocked me, Tuffnut would never say those things! Least of all when you take into account how he was presented in Race to The Edge - he and Ruffnut got way better writing in that show than the last 2 movies alone! This movie really was an incredible train wreck, It actually hurts to listen to everyone's dialogue.
Exactly! I was thinking the entire time “how could they say all of this to Hiccup when they’ve been friends for years (because of the shows) they should know their friends boundaries and stuff” and it was just disappointing to see. They don’t even feel like the same characters at all. It’s more disappointing to me because Ive not finished watching Race to the Edge and was already not gonna watch the third movie, but this cements it. Also the older designs are pretty cool especially Tuffnut’s piercings but I can’t be bothered watching the third movie. (Also Snoutlout flirting with Hiccup’s mom??? Wtf?? Literally in the shoes if someone flirted with him back he’s just like ??? Why are you doing that?? Yes he can be confident now but WHY IS HIS ONLY PERSONALITY TRAIT NOW JUST ARROGANT.)
Great video you brought up a lot of good points about what is wrong with the third movie and I agree with a lot of the things that you discuss in your video especially the problems with the mistreatment of Hiccup by his questionable redesign of his character but also the mistreatment he gets from the rest of the cast and by the writers. Also agree with the problems with the over femininity of the Light Fury design, and the complete buttery of Toothless character for this horn dog knockoff that we got. I appreciate the time you took to make this.
Thank you omg. This final movie always annoys me. Toothless was suddenly an asshole and just didn't care about hiccup??? AND THEN THEY LEFT???? Like Toothless just ditched them. It reminds me of a toxic partner convincing you your friends are toxic and keeping you to themselves- the light fury is like that.
I actually read the books as a child, and I remember being upset after watching the first movie since it was so different from the book series that I loved. I didn't like the HTTYD movies at first because of this, and eventually I had to learn to separate the two in my mind, which was difficult as a literal child. I was upset that they had changed Toothless' design, I was upset that the dragons couldn't speak, and overall I was upset about the huge overhaul in the story. The HTTYD movie series are now some of my favorite of all time, I still cry during Stoic's death. After seeing the third movie, I couldn't really articulate why it didn't feel right or why I didn't like it as much as the others. When I tried sharing this sentiment with other HTTYD fans, I was met with a lot of confusion because other people seemed to have really liked the third film. I really appreciate this video for putting into words why the third movie is bad.
![Redesigning- I mean, REPLACING the light fury [ SPEEDPAINT 141 ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6rbw1h6ssZY/mqdefault.jpg)
Another thing I hated was that the deathgrippers were treated as evil dragons even though we were SHOWN that grimmel was controlling them with their own venom. These dragons were victims and toothless electrocutes them and we're supposed to cheer. I was so hoping that we'd get a scene where the deathgrippers were freed and then THEY were the ones who dealt with grimmel. Kind of like how the hyenas ate scar.
Also it would've been so awesome to have toothless and the lightfury fight when they first met, like how simba attacked nala for her trying to eat pumba.
The way the deathgrippers were handled was such a wasted opportunity that felt completely at odds with the ethos of the entire HTTYD series. As a viewer, I felt sympathy for these dragons that were basically being drugged and mind-controlled with their own venom, and I thought that surely they'd be freed from enslavement by the end of the film. Instead they all get electrocuted, fall into the ocean, and are never seen again. And not one character cares.
I made a comment in the comments section about changing dragon hunters to a different species that hates humans and dragons, I kinda like to think deathgrippers are too different, which makes them think deathgrippers are pure while thinking humans and other dragons are impure and need to be destroyed
(Sort of needing to make an species extinct before they can destroy the world)
@@someadorablebuffcat sounds neat
@@someadorablebuffcat fact checking, about making entire species evil makes no sense, does that refer to deathgrippers or my species idea? (But I still like it)
@@someadorablebuffcat right
Thing is, in the show, Ruffnut was actually very clever and used this annoyance to INTENTIONALLY distract enemies. Which makes this all the more insulting to fans of her and the rest of the teens who got fleshed out in the show.
It's Ruffnut
I'm not gonna watch the video, but I'm assuming that you're referring o when she annoyed Grimmel to let her go. My question is how is that insulting to fans?
@Generic Dan So in the original show that aired on Nickolodeon after the first movie ended, there was a villain in the show that was, basically Grimmel but a thousand times better. The same thing happens, she gets captured and annoys him into letting her go. The huge difference is, it wasn't out of stupidity. She used the knowledge that she got to him, to escape. Plus, she didn't just willy-nilly go back to the other vikings, she hid, and waited until she was sure she wasn't being followed. She was able to not only outsmart them, but bring valuable information back to Hiccup and the gang.
@@DanDraws. wait really? man its been awhile since i watched dragons edge, i have no memory of her doing that
@@darkdruidsvalethere are multiple series, they might be referring to Defenders of Berk, not Race to the Edge
The idea of overcrowding makes sense, but not when they have another half of the island with no buildings that’s untouched
I THOUGHT THE SAME
I was like "Why on earth dont they expand on all that unoccupied land around them that Hiccup mapped out completely in movie 2????"
It just felt like they wanted to have a shitty reason to move the plot forwards
@@MARAH_animationAnd for anyone who may be wondering what those "obvious reasons" are...
*Death Songs are dragon eaters, just like the Deathgrippers.*
He didn't try to eat the gang's dragons, mind you, as he was around them for a while as a baby and saw them as flockmates rather than prey. This didn't stop him from trying to eat the wild dragons on the Edge, though. And so, for their safety, he was relocated to another island.
And unlike the Deathgrippers, Garff was never labled as "evil." They simply stated the facts that he was a wild animal following his instincts and that it'd be wrong to call him evil for that. Compare that to the Deathgrippers which either got waterboarded or the electric chair treatment.
@@emperortethysusdacertified8175 here we have yet another reason why rtte is the superior dragons content. fucking. GARFF.
Why not just move the dragons without riders into some kind of sanctuary? Or just let them be in the wild? They can fly, they'll visit when they need dental care and the like if they want to. No need to hoard them like a bad cat owner.
@@blockEdragon this!! just let them be wild!! and not in the "force all dragons down into a glorified prison in the ground" way, literally just in the "the gang befriended a cute singetail and then let it fuck off when it wanted to" way
Theres even more problems with the ending. There are several dragons that just cannot fly. Speed stingers, cavern crashers, and sea shockers for example. There are people like the wing maidens, defenders of the wing, and berserkers who all rely on dragons for their way of life. Also vanaheim which is the final resting place for alot of dragons. It doesnt work now ig. That means the grim gnashers will die out. There are many dragons who live in specific environments. These include snow wraiths, changewings, smothering smokebreaths, and sand busters. There are dragons that would just kill each other if put in The same place because they are animals who eat each other. Submarippers and shell fires, scauldrons and sea shockers. There are dragons like the flightmare who will die without their food source found out in the open oceans. Cavern crashers eat eggs. Death songs will just trap and eat all the dragons. A skrill will not live in an underwater cave. Slitherwings will kill any dragon they touch because of the coating on their skin. The dragons at dark deep will have to abandon their ancient home. The sentinels at vanaheim are useless. Armor wings will die out with no metal. There isnt enough food down there. Dragons rely on fish alot but they also eat other stuff. And apart from all that, like you said, there are dragons in the rest of the world too. There will always be dragon hunters out there killing dragons and now the people of berk will have no way to help any of them. There are so many problems with the ending on so many levels.
That’s cuz the film makers don’t work together w the show makers. I really hate to say this, but the shows like riders of Berk and rtte aren’t canon. Also since toothless is the king of dragons now, can’t he js command all of them to not attack each other? He has Drago’s bewilderbeast(did I spell it right?) being loyal to him and he also roared multiple times to tell the other hundreds of dragons to stop chasing after hiccup and Astrid as well as command dragons like cloudjumper to get into the cages without attacking grimmel and the northern alliance warlords’ soldiers.
@@AtrociCollectoryou're not wrong in that assumption, but again, Toothless won't live forever, nor he cant really force animals that have to eat other dragons (i.e deathsongs) to not eat other dragons. Besides, the shows may not necessarily be canon (i still think they are because of the carry-over to the films--i.e wingsuits), but the dragons are and the habits of said dragons are still canon.
@@azul8128 yeah that’s true. Eventually toothless’ journey will end and there will be a new dragon leader in the hidden world. Maybe one of toothless and the light fury’s kids? And I wish the shows were canon too. The Cartoon Network show and rtte had so many canon references in them like mentioning the red death, drago flashbacks and appearances, a small part of the northern alliance’s base/hideout and valka appearing at the end to take a bewilderbeast(did I spell it right?) egg
@@AtrociCollector The movies have stuff that is only explained/found in the series though. How exactly how they not cannon when the movies directly reference stuff from the series?
So no, pretending the series didn't happen doesn't work. They want their cake and to eat it too. They want to include the show as cannon while disregarding it.
It just shows how badly written 3 is, and how bad the ending is.
@@Goremize how about the 2nd film. It was released in 2014 before rtte(events between the 1st and 2nd film) was made
By far one of the most BAFFLING things for me about the third movie is that Valka of all people was the first big person to suggest the separation of humans and dragons. Out of all the characters they could have chosen, they picked her?? The woman who lived in a dragon nest for like 20 years?!?
Not only that but she saw how they acted and actually healed some of them- I always wonder that; some of the dragons would probably die out in the world very easily without the help of humans. Like those with disabilities, injuries, sickness, and more.. I think it's more cruel to just leave them alone because "nature"
I wouldn't be surprised if the rationale behind making Valka an early advocate for separation was to make that decision seem more legitimate. After all, if the character who's been living with dragons for decades voices support for sending all the dragons away forever, then it MUST be a good idea, right?
And she didn't just live in a dragon nest... She ABANDONED her husband and CHILD to go live in a dragon nest because she loved dragons so much and couldn't bear to live in a society that did not understand her love for them! But yeah, sure, she'll just throw Cloudjumper away in a goodbye scene that lasted less than a minute. Omg it boils my blood and makes no sense...
Well they were probably following the kung fu panda trilogy. Though it would’ve been nice if we had a series that based after the second film so we can see how the hiccup and toothless take their new roles and see how well Valka will fit in with the help of the other Riders.
It's also rich because iirc at one point she tells Hiccup he's relying too much on Toothless... You know, the woman who became feral and lived with dragons entirely, relying on them to fly her around and get food and help other dragons, just like the Berkians had started doing
Another design change I despise is how they de-aged Valka. Her hair became bright red and her face became so smooth she looks more like a sister to Hiccup than his mother...
Yeah absolutely
Pretty much all the characters had a thick coat of make-up splashed over them
I totally agree, while I can maybe make a point of saying before she was living with dragons and therefore probably didn't have great hygiene which could explain why her hair is brighter (cause it's healthier?), they totally should've kept her face the same as before or at least given her age lines and more white hairs, it almost looks as if she has a totally different face shape lol
Also her entire facial structure changed😭Like what?
Not to mention how creepy Snotlout is towards Hiccups mother
Honestly she does look more younger and lively then the "dragon-like" behavior she used to do in the second movie
Toothless should have remained feline and at least a smidge aloof in his personality and mannerisms. The cute and funny things he did were made more potent by interspersing them between a lot of scenes of him being smart and mysterious/intimidating.
This isn't exclusive to the third movie. They turned him into a doglike animal sidekick well before that point, and it's just an entirely different character than the iconic cat/bat/salamander everyone fell in love with in the first movie.
yeah eXACTLY.
100% agree
That's my biggest problem with him, first time watching the second film I didn't enjoy how he became too friendly. I always figured he'll still have moments of reminder that he can still be dangerous. He wasn't raised from an egg, he was a wild animal that came to trust humans. Sure expected him get less dangerous and aggressive but not completely take it out of him
@@iiiisssssaaaaaacccccc The difference is in the first movie, he was dog/ cat like but also it was very noticeable that he was a wild animal. After the first movie you can’t tell.
Agree
The feline thing was to make see toothless unsecurity, mistery and not confidene whit hiccup, after in the movies he became like a dog because he didnt had to be misterius, he was happy and loved all of berk, the dragins and hiccup, he grew up like hiccup and thats why he is different and for every movie dreamworks treid to make him see more realistic possible, thise bulcky walks and flyght were because of him being exited and desperate of love. We fell in love whit him because of its cuteness, that grew in all the movies, for how smart he was and for how funny and independebt he was, he was never a sidecick but a help for hiccup, he wanted to listen to him cause thanks to him he got freed by the red death and made hes life better(even if he ripped hes tail), he became more like a dog because he loved hiccup and would have done anything to protect him, the problem whit you is that you paragonize the character to other things, he is a dragon, a night fury, more inteligent than any other animal we know or in that planet, whit almost the same inteligence as a human, its obvius that in the first one he would look like a feline, to rapresent hes non confidence whit hiccup, but after he starts being like a dog, seeing that the guy wants to help him, get confident ecc, you always try to see everything as a bad thing, if all of that would have happened in the arc of 1 year(the first, second and third movie) i would agree that the design shouldnt be vhanged and even the character, but he grew up, he developed muscles and thats what it is that line in hes chest and fighted against all the dragons and let them know that he is the cutest and stringet of them all
in a better movie, Toothless would have kicked the light fury's ass the first time she lays a claw on Hiccup.
Spittin' straight facts
@@MyUniverseinaBox And would have never abandoned his brother for a girl he barely knows.
The conflict I would actually enjoy watching. The light fury hurts Hickup and Toothless is so upset, he's lost all interest in her. She's very confused and genuinely begins making attempts to understand why Toothless cares so much about this single, weird human.
@@carved_cuts Yes! Someone actually did a fanfic similar to this except hiccup was raised and cared for by dragons his whole life after cloud jumper took him and valka. Valka passed away and hiccup became feral and thought he was a dragon. In one of the stories he and toothless meet Shiver (the light fury) and she attacks hiccup amd toothless made it clear to her you dont EVER do that to his hiccup and him and hiccup gave her the silent treatment it was great xD
One part toothless basically told hiccup I like this girl dragon but if you dont i wont be with her you matyer to me most and I was like (THIS IS WHAT HHTYDHW WAS MISSING THE STRONG FRIENDSHIP BETWEEN HICCUP AND TOOTHLESS) Toothless would NEVER let another dragon harm hiccup like the light fury did in httydhw 😫 when i saw the light fury toss hiccup off toothless back and do nothing about it for a good minute I was like ABSOLUTELY NOT! 😡.....
ANYWAY RANT OVER 😅
@@DomesticAnimo oehh 👀 sounds interesting. But yeah same. I hate it so much when characters are written very out of character for plot. Like in the Steven Universe future finale. I can rant for days on why EVERYONE crying over having wronged the protagonist pure sin. 😂💀
the retconning/contradiction of the night fury always pisses me off. The night fury is the most elusive, fast, and dangerous dragon but wait no actually apparently it's the easiest dragon to find and kill because they got eradicated by some rando who wasn't even as interesting as the 2nd movie's villain.
And the fact that, apparently, they were easy to spy on for Grimmel to conclude that they mate for life, when in the first movie, the people didnt even know how a nightfury looked like.
@@anfani6839 , the fact that after first movie, everybody could control dragons
"The guy who was able to capture hundreds, possibly thousands of dragons within a few hours"
This guy: Some rando
Honestly, i like sexual dimorphism in creatures, but it doesn’t have to be by human standards.
Females can be larger and stronger, like spiders, or the males can be fancy like peacock.
But sexual dimorphism done human had a tendency to be boring
Couldn't agree more. Sexual dimorphism in nature is super fun. But what could have been a fun example of sexual dimorphism is simply a nothing burger. She's not even the same species as Toothless so we cant really talk about that. I thought it would just be so cool if she HAD been a female night fury though. And it could gave been explained that the females are white because they lay on white rocks or glittery sand found only in some special hidden location to protect their eggs from detection or something. That's how birds in real life work! Females camouflage better whereas the males can be more starkly colored.
Sigh... This movie had such potential but alas, it is just stupid.
Exactly! I wish they made the light fury bigger than toothless at least. She could have been so cool
I feel like people are complaining way too much about sexual dimorphism in this movie. Yes. She was introduced as a love interest for toothless, but they are still different species. In the movie, when the other dragons are celebrating Toothless and LF in the hidden world, we see 3 other light furies. 2 of them are a mother and a wyrmling. The mother and the wyrmling look exactly like LF, however the third one was different. It was blurry, as we only ever see it in motion, however we can clearly see that it has arrow shaped tail flaps, while the other 3 we've seen have heart shaped tail flaps. So, we can just hypothesise that that was a male. Also for those who are like "female dragons would be bigger than males, just like birds", dragons are literally reptiles. Their ability to fly is different from how birds fly. Also, Only birds of prey and a few other species have that kind of sexual dimorphism. Some of the closest living relatives to birds being crocodilians show extreme sexual dimorphism, with males being much larger. Also in Gift Of The Night Fury, we see a point where Starfire and another nadder are on screen. The other nadder being noticeably bulkier. This is a huge difference as most other nadders we see share the same physique.
Now I wanna talk about how both species' design could be effective for survival (obviously this isn't the case from the designer's perspective). They are probably as close as lions are to tigers, so let's start with that. They are closely related but with many different design characteristics. Toothless has much longer ear frills than the light fury. An odd choice, but they could have different uses. Night furies are obviously Night hunters, and while they would have good Night vision, they would still have excellent hearing to detect the slightest of movements (could also be echolocation), meanwhile the light fury is a likely daytime hunter. and relies on sight more than other senses. Just like owls in contrast to hawks. I like to assume that the Light Furies would actually prefer fish to other prey species. They have sails, that one "male" we see looks like the others in most ways but the tail, which still looks like a fluke. They also have white colouration, and this could be like how countershading works in the wild. Now they obviously don't have dark backs like penguins do, but they are apex predators in the skies and they don't need to blend into the water from above, however while they would need to camouflage from prey, there are still predators in the water that they have to avoid, and since their other mirror scale ability that they share with Night Furies requires them to harness lightning and absorb it, there may not be in an adequate environment for that, and that seems like something they would use to hunt, high up in the air rather than waste energy using it above the water.
-I was gonna type an entire essay about how the light fury's design could be advantageous, but I'm bored- (Edit: I have no life) -and since I'm sure that many HTTYD 3 haters, who just so happen to be evolutionary biologists will come at me for defending the movie, I'm just gonna leave this at that- Also, this got longer than I expected.
That is it ! They made a female character according to human standards, to what humans (cough cough men) perceive as typically feminine and conventionally attractive. But aren't they supposed to create a female character by animal standrads ? Dragons are animals, not humans, and surely don't care about curves, eye shadow and hearts.
@@Shaddiewolf I love your explanation for her shimmery scales ! Applying gender specific behavior taht could explain different appearances sounds so great, but Dreamworks really dropped the ball on dragon design. They could have been inspired by so many cases of sexual dimorphism in the animal kingdom but chose the easy, wrong way.
And as you pointed out, the Light fury is it's separate species, so there wouldn't be a need for sexual dimorphism really.
One thing I never see mentioned by the way is that Toothless being mates with the Light Fury isn’t the big win for the Night Fury species that the movie wants you to think it is, by the way, because that’s not how genetics and hybridization works! The Light Fury is clearly an entirely different species than the Night Fury, and already seems to have a stable population. There’s only one of Toothless. This means, that even if Toothless’s offspring are fertile- which based on how hybridization for most animals works, would not be the case- the best case scenario in this situation would be that Toothless’s genetics would become incredibly diluted throughout the Light Fury population and Night Furies would still go extinct, in a similar manner to how some modern humans have Neanderthal DNA.
I think I mentioned that briefly in the video, that night furies would go extinct in the httyd3 scenario anyway; being breed out. So yeah I agree, it doesn't make sense
the thing I don't really mind is the light fury and toothless being able to breed and have offspring that are fertile- it's fantasy and making hybrids is fun so whatever pFT
The hybrids they created however, were absolutely awful AFTYFWDTY
that just made me think of the nine realms and how the newer generation of nightlights are confirmed to be severely inbred :(
For me I like to think of the light fury and toothless as the same species and they are just different breeds (kind of like dogs, cats, horses, literally any other species)
@@SophieSelberg-bk2xy still, the black colouration will breed out overtime
@@confusedartist822 with how they look i dont have a hard time believing this 💀
Before i watch any further i have to say this about ruffnut, she is actually the smarter twin, as stated in rtte, and if she was in character, she would have have NEVER been that dumb
Exactly! There were moments when her intelligence shocks everyone
You know what I personally think is very strange. The "you gave him his freedom what did you expect", first of all he was never trapped, second of all in I think "the gift of the night fury" hiccup gave him a tail almost exactly like the one in this movie but guess what. He came back. Like idk what that was all about, and I also don't like how Toothless and Hiccup's relationship is completely destroyed in the 3rd movie, not even attempting to protect them from the lightfury after she almost killed them (multiple times mind you) and then the face on toothless after she leaves just looks like he completely recked his chances of having a mate
Finally someone noticed how dumb this line was as an excuse to push hiccups very poor separation idea. Gift of the night fury was even referenced in the movie since they knew he made one before.
@@someonerandom9939”you made him this before, he didn’t want it”
A Couple days later
“You have him his freedom, what did you expect?”
Lmao he’s always had freedom
This reminds me of when grimmel said that furies can’t survive in the cold even though toothless has been living on Berk for six years
What's the problem with Toothless wanting to be with the light fury? She almost killed hiccup? Toothless almost killed stoick, and Astrid. It's called being defensive
@@doctordyrroth have you watched the movies before? Like in movie 1 where toothless ran to hiccup to attack the monstrous nightmare that was trying to attack hiccup? The part where in movie 1 he saves hiccup from dying by diving in after him through the fire? Toothless is known to always protect hiccup, yet he doesn't when the light fury almost kills him, that's the main problem.
Still can’t get over the fact they spent two whole-ass movies building a friendship and showing how special and precious the bond between vikings and dragons can be in the face of adversity…only to stabbed be in the lungs with the ‘you gotta let go of your friends eventually lol’ cliche plot the HTTYD had been against up until that point. Just look at the Gift of The Night Fury. It was SO clear Toothless and Hiccup would’ve never left each other, I would’ve rather wanted to see Toothless choosing to stay and leaving the hidden world to his ‘queen’. Together from afar forever 😢
Exactly
I see what they were trying to do. Letting go in life is important.
However! Letting go only happens for A REASON. Such as death, a war, or something simply just won’t work.
Let’s see then:
Toothless nor hiccup died, they defeated their enemies and it wasn’t even a war, and there is no evidence to suggest that dragons and humans can’t get along, if anything there is evidence for the complete opposite.
It just dosent make any sense.
@@GoodMan-rf8mz Plus, and I've actually seen a good fan comic about this: Toothless and Hiccup need each other, which was also one of the core themes of the series. Dragons and humans need each other and can peacefully coexist. Toothless is essentially physically disabled, being unable to fly without his prosthetic fin. I'd assume that that fin needs maintenance from its maker: Hiccup. The comic basically explains the story of how Toothless' reign was short: without hiccup there was nobody to keep his tail well maintained and working as it should, so over the years it started to wear down and eventually it broke. Toothless fell down from the sky, and as the saying goes, "a downed dragon is a dead dragon".
@Ned-nw6ge what is this fan comic ?? im quite interested
Plus the whole reasoning is super bad. Like first of all, how is hiding better for dragons if "Greedy men will always find a way"? Wouldn't that just mean someone would find the Hidden World anyways, endagering the dragons even more since there is no human around to help? (Which is actually the base for my httyd fanfiction lol)
I know they tried to make it all forshadowy like with Gobber saying they'll pick a fight they can't win one day, and the whole thing was supposed to be "oh Grimmel is that fight you can't win, it's so dangerous" when in reality they beat him just fine. The previous movies and shows proved that Hiccup and Toothless work best when they're together but then the third is trying to convince us it's safer if they're split apart? Wtf
This ^
Also the third movie completely undermines the message the 2nd set. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" but Toothless gets to ignore that and not only endangeres the ENTIRE FLOCK but also all of Berk and his BEST FRIEND for one random chick. Not to mention if he had told the flock to fire they would've killed Grimmel way before he even got a chance to off the Light Fury.
But oh well. Guess Stoic died for nothing
I hate how they made toothless a literal dog. His behavior and his design is more puppylike and kinda uncanny he sticks out way too much from the other dragons. He was supposed to be intelligent and cat like I refuse to believe he’s the same character from the first movie they share little to no resemblance with each other and are completely different characters. He is very out of character, annoying af and it just seemed like he didn’t care about hiccup. He literally left him forever just to get laid. He’s supposed to be a tamed wild animal not a domesticated dog.
Fr💀💀
Didn’t he leave Hiccup because their stories paralleled? He had to leave to lead the dragons away and Hiccup had to stay to be the leader of his people. Toothless was gonna leave with or without the light fury, she was a bonus
My man woke up and chose to speak fax
However! He always had dog characteristics. Such as loyalty, playfulness, intelligence and his protective instincts too. Kinda like a German shepherd almost.
However in the third movie, he did just become some oversized puppy that follows things around. Every one of his “good dog” characteristics, he lost. And he became an oversized, stupid, slobber dog. That didn’t care about his best friend and wasn’t loyal.
He went from a German shepherd to a pug
@@syre5458 Why though? Hiccup and Toothless literally saved eachother multiple times.
Well least it isn’t as bad as Dragons Nine Realms. Though I do wonder… was there a plan to make a 4th movie? Because I honestly would’ve loved to see it even if it didn’t have dragons, we could’ve learned about Hiccups kids. When Nine Realms came out I thought it was gonna be a story about his kids but no… to my utter disappointment it was about some guy and his friends in the modern era… which I hate. It happened with boruto, and it happened in the smurfs 1 and 2.
I agree with the Kung Fu Panda recommendation, awesome franchise too.
But I did wanna say, I actually did cry at the end of this movie, but not for the reasons they were probably wanting. As I was crying and watching the dragons leave, I was whispering “no” to myself, because it felt SO WRONG. It felt so out of place and distorted and just, bleck. So I cried for the franchise and the awesome friendship I’d come to love. Because man, what a garbage way to end it for the fans.
Same, with the only difference is that i held my tears until i saw the credits starting to roll and i saw screenshots of the first movie, that made me feel sooo empty and broke, 100% not for the reason the filmmakers were thinkng, just me thinking :"wtf?? What the hell happened?? How is this the end?? Not the first movie screenshots put there just to make you emotional and forget what the hell happened in the ending"🥴
Kung Fu Panda is such a great trilogy I'm ngl. :)
The whole thing about the “challenge of making a girl dragon” is bizarre because there have BEEN female dragons since the first movie. They just look identical to the males, this was a plot point in Gift of the Night Fury when they find Meatlug’s nest. It also feels kinda weird considering the human designs in the first movie, too. In any crowd shot, the women are large and muscular like their fellow vikings. Ruffnut didn’t get the “overfeminized genderbend” treatment. Even Astrid, who can be considered the most cookie-cutter love interest design of the female cast has these little quirks that make her look more like a person. She’s got imperfect teeth, a nasally voice like Hiccup, and this is such a small detail but she has these little.. spots? on her skin towards her scalp? I don’t know where they pulled the “girl must be clean and soft” from, because that wasn’t the aim of the original design lineup at all. I don’t know what collective amnesia happened during this movie’s development but it’s disappointing man
these movies probably didn't have the same directors/producers, the same creative vision and definitely didn't have the same intentions. so it's not as accidental as you may think
That's just how light furies look
Plus it also doesn't make sense biologically for her (light fury) to be like that, she looks like a semi-aquatic dragon but she's not, and they reduced the number of sensory organs (the "ears") ??? that's just stupid, it would even make sense for her to have more of those since she's supposed to be a stealth hunter and needs to use her senses.
Sure you can have the back "fin" or the slightly rounder wing and tail ends but make her more like toothless, give her visible scales and spikes and a more blocky build; every other female dragon in the series is just like the males, like a real animal, not a gendered cartoon animal.
I get light furies are a subspecies but there was no practical thought put into them (like they did with other dragon species), they're just Marketable Easier To Make Cute Girl Dragon. They had to make her cutesy and girly because she's the main dragon's love interest and that's gonna sell.
I HATE her design with all my heart.
@@sakuraice22 Short ears and small and smooth scales actually make sense for semi-aquatic or very fast creatures. First reason is aerodynamics. Look at birds, seals and otters. They have very smooth shapes, because any protrusion is air/water resistance, i.e. deceleration. Second reason that if you have protruding ears, in the water they will create turbulence (in the air, in fact, too, but the air is much less dense than water, so this is not so critical) and interfere with hearing.
P. S. The main problem with ligth fury is ideas that were pursued in its creation: not the creation of a fast and efficient semi-aquatic hunter, but the creation of a love interest.
@@sakuraice22 i havent watched httyd 3 but some people said that the light fury isnt a female night fury
Its just close to it
Like lions and tigers
Or leopards and jaguars(i feel like i spelled it wrong💀)
It's honestly gross how they go from claiming that they'll change the world bit by bit to be more accepting to "oh yeah never mind, actually we can't do anything about it and can't live together afterall, bye."
Like what kind of message does that give to kids? That bigotry can't be beat? You can't change things? Things can't get better, so might as well be separate forever?
Do they seriously not understand how that really messes with kids heads?
Exactly!
Sometimes u can't chnage things and it's naive to think u can chnage everything. That's not how the world works.
@@bobbylastname2892 yeah, but social changes CAN happen, and the previous movies showed exactly that the change could happen.
@Bobby Last name OH yeh, sorry, totally naive of me to assume bigotry can be fought and social change can actually take place 🤨
You know this sounds like you're excusing those things right? Sure, not EVERYONE can change, but THINGS can change in society bit by bit if we work hard.
Acting like things can't ever change or ever be fixed is a self-centered and coward point of view, since you wanna call me naive.
@@dinosyracia this is a solid point and I do belive this is the weakest of the movies by no means is it bad
The only thing I'd ever disliked about the third movie is Astrid. When I first saw her in the first movie, she was a viking like the others, dirt on her face, feminine but boxy like the rest of the characters still by a little. In this movie Astrid is curvy, motherly, kind and clean. No one else seems to have noticed this, so I could be overthinking it, but I would definitely say I much rather the tough, scary, cool Astrid. Does anyone else agree? I've been thinking about it alot and haven't seen someone talk about it. I hope I'm not just being nitpicky about it.
You're right, all the female characters (human or dragon) in this movie became less rugged and dirty. They look softer, "prettier". Which doesn't fit the past movies at all!
The curvy thing could be because she aged. Children in general don't really have curves, they develop with age.
i can definitely see from a marketing standpoint they wanted astrid to be appealing to the eye and more womanly-which is fine! but since she’s a viking i do wish they’d kept at least SOME of her edginess from the first film too. now, her being more “motherly” as you put it, i think was just to set her up as a mother later in the film. if she was still the brash, tomboyish astrid we met in the first film then her suddenly being the sweet, kind mother we see at the end of the last film would be jarring. there’s definitely a smooth transition in astrid’s maturity and femininity throughout each film.
@@ajiananapier25 I mean, a mother doesn't have to be a stereotypical sweet and one-dimensional being to be good. Since the very first movie Astrid was very caring, just because she was tomboyish doesn't disregard her qualities for a good parent. In fact, I would KILL for a tomboyish mother that isn't lesbian, it seems weird that the only way the media can potray a good mother is by reverting back to the stereotypes
@@billcipher8645 in this series, the closest thing we have to a portrayal of a mother who isn’t stereotypical is valka (plus we don’t even know she’s a woman until she takes her mask off) we know she’s empathetic and kind, as well as badass and athletic-traits astrid also possesses, but it’s possible that astrid was meant to become an increasingly “softer” presence in hiccup’s life, at the cost of her tomboyish qualities, not because of her own character growth but who she is in relation to hiccup (she even says “i am the person i am today because of you”)
I consider the last movie as not canon. For me the second one is the final to the first movie and the series after that. Everything builds up to Drago as the biggest threat. Grimmel just feels like an afterthought.
Yeah same here aygusfe
100% agree
Same here. I refuse to watch it again. I watch the 1st and 2nd a lot though
@@Shaddiewolf you see I wish I could that man. Every time I watch the first and second movies I see Drago get defeated, Red death get defeated, I see toothless and hiccup being friends and enjoy time together, and I see them save each others lives. But every time I see these moments, I can’t help but think, “welp, that was all for nothing anyway”.
Third movie really crushed everything for me.
@Good Man oh no! You poor thing :(
When I first watched the movie and saw the reunion in the boat, I thought that the Vikings would reunite with their dragons again or at least our hero's.
The ending is relatively open in that matter. So yeah.
The third movie ends with hiccup and Toothless reuniting because they can't really stay away from each other for so long!!
@@alinaw.2071 yeh but the problem is that, the end scene where they reunite dosent mean anything. According to Dean DeBlois that’s the last time toothless and hiccup ever saw each other, and toothless later forgot about Hiccup.
Very annoying
the characters being ruined hurts even worse if you've watched dragons: riders of berk. and race to the edge. those shows proved for example that while the twins are "mutton heads" they can still be smart and compitent team members. if i remember correctly ruffnut even used the be anoying as a captive move......exept she made sure not to be followed. they really did their own characters dirty
I agree. So much potential development for nothing
What's even more crazier is that the shows were canon to the movies so . . . Yeah they fucked it up.
@@HiroshirouTavern yeah this movie threw away all their lore and character building. And forgot about so many plot points they made. Like valka's disabled dragons for example. Its over al just BAD
I mean literally this movie was a massive forced retcon just to be able to obtain the canon ending of the books (Even though at that point the movies and the books were their own individual thing and had nothing to do with one another except the fucking name) and here we are
@@HiroshirouTavern true, i adored the books. But the ending really doesnt work for the movies it was stupid of then to focus on that plot point. dreamworks, Spirit is an amazing example of what httyd 3 failed at
God when the art book came out i was weirded out reading the design notes about the light fury. So much talk about how feminine they had to make her and the focus on her looks and "feminine" movements just so gross. Plus it felt like their need to make her 'wild and untamed' and the need to make her super feminine cancelled out and gave her the blandest design ever. (also if they wanted to avoid her markings looking like scars....they couldve just made them blue. like her underbelly).
When i left the theater after watching this movie i was sad because a part of my childhood was done, but also toothless was really the last night fury. His kind was doomed. The ending is 'hopeful' but theres no more night furies according to the film. They're all dead. Toothless' entire species is gone forever because of One Guy. They gave hiccup all those flashback scenes but i would've loved to see one from toothless' memories, if only so we could've seen another night fury or two. Not to mention as someone who related to hiccup in the first movie growing up, seeing everyone in the third film constantly shit on his ideas and hopes felt especially bad.
Also i dont watch it but there are so many bad implications with the nightlights in the nine realms. It takes place thousands of years after httyd3 and the main character's nightlight has two parents who are also nightlights, it just feels so gross (and sorry for rambling in your comments section fdshdf)
Some of the stuff it says in the art book is honestly just baffling. It's so transparent like holy shit-
Also yeah I find it hilarious that the Light Fury was meant to represent the 'wild' and honestly she looks the least wild out of all the dragons. In fact she almost looks bred specifically for domestication. Short face (almost pug looking), small feet, blunt claws and teeth..... it's so silly lol
Also yeah I felt the same. It was just kind of sad and very underwhelming. I mostly left it feeling... nothing much about it. Also yeah good point actually! I would have preferred there was just more night furies but if they really insisted on having flash backs, they should have given toothless some lmao.
And yeah I mentioned it in the video as well but lmaoooo those furies are absolutely inbred AGUYWGD
I haven't watched it either tho, haven't watched any of the shows.
(also nah, ur good!!)
@@MyUniverseinaBox She is Bella Swan if she was a dragon instead of a human: A blank slate whose sole purpose is to be the main character's love interest.
@@jorgebersabe293 pretty much
@@MyUniverseinaBox Since when How To Train Your Dragon became a rip off of Twilight? Because Toothless/Light Fury screams Edward/Bella and I'm not saying so as a compliment. When obsessive lust is being sold to kids as romantic love, that already tells me the movie is bad.
I agree- I also had some idea that if this truly was a Toothless movie. They could have made him and Grimmel enemies. Like he probably killed Toothless' mother or saw his kind die by him and quite possibly make some kind of revenge driven Toothless. I would love to have seen more of his ferocious side again then the dog-like one. I really just didn't want him to just end up being a marketable plushie :( I loved seeing him be a dragon
It could have been a hidden world of night furies.... Sigh, the potential this movie had, and it all went down the drain
couldn't agree more 😔
There being more Night Furies would negate Toothless being unique.
@@willfanofmanyii3751 but atleast he could be happy knowing theres like more of him
@@willfanofmanyii3751 Sounds like you missed the whole theme of the two previous movies
@@willfanofmanyii3751 He is unique as a character
I always thought that the scene when toothless drew himself then growled when the light fury stepped was weird. It felt gross like the light fury didn't care about toothless and his boundaries (like in movie 1 where hiccup respected his boundaries)
I agree also I dislike how Toothless just stopped defending his boundaries after the light fury growled at him
I don't know if it's abusive or not. But I wouldn't be surprised if it is because the entire construct of their relationship is essentially based on physical attraction, not genuine emotional connection.
Toothless in HTTYD 1: I fought my queen, who is much bigger than me, for my friend
Toothless in HTTYD Gift of the Night Fury: When all the other dragons left, I searched the ocean for days on end just to find my friend's hat
Toothless in HTTYD 2: I fought the king of all dragons and became Alpha for my friend
Toothless in HTTYD 3: *I left my friend for my wife who I met two days ago*
that`s how mating for life works I guess
@@Jdudec367they really made toothless a simp. And what happened to loyalty and friendship for YEARS then? Guess that can be overlooked too for the sake of mating. Just what the hell is this movie 😭there’s literally NOTHING related to animal behaviour and merely humanising animals. Toothless could’ve bang the light fury, protect its mate until it finishes laying eggs or however this work and leave, like how lions don’t have mates for life and are non-monogamous. Fidelity is merely a human construct. Not animal construct. If my memory serves me right, most dragons in the show are always single parents/mothers.
@@eyman730 They didn`t make him a simp, what the hell are you taklking about? That loyalty and friendship is still there. No it`s still there so it can`t be overlooked for the sake of mating and nothing is overlooked for the sake of mating here. It`s a good movie. No there is stuff related to animal behavior. Some animals do have mates for life though. It really isn`t just a human construct some animals have it too.
@@Jdudec367 It's not a good movie. Everything is wrong with it, from the begining to the end, and Toothless ditching Hiccup is only a tip of the iceberg.
@@FireF1y644 It is a good movie. Not really, nope, nope it`s mostly good.
43:31 you know what's funny, is that Dreamworks DID develop and explore the side characters! HTTYD: Race to the Edge did this PERFECTLY. There were multiple episodes where side characters got to lead and shine, whether it be showing off their skills or just basic character development. Not only do Hiccup and Astrid's relationship get some screentime, we get to see Ruff and Tuff being more than the "funny twins that fight," and even Snotlout had moments that showed his more sensitive side.
The worst part of all this? Dreamworks doesn't consider the shows to be canon. All of their development from Gift of the Night Fury, Riders of Berk, Defenders of Berk, and Race to the Edge doesn't matter when it comes to the films. The shows rely on the films, but the films completely ignore the shows.
And this is what pisses me off the most. When you leave out the shows, you get the idea that every side character is some bumbling idiot who's just there for the clout from their bestie friend Chief Hiccup Horrendous Haddock the Third. When that's just?? So wrong??? Just from RTTE, we realize how everyone has their place and unique skills in the team. Hiccup is the leader, Astrid is the strategist, Fishlegs is the brains, Snotlout is the brawn, and the Nuts are the red herring (the best I can put in the fewest words). And even THEN, they are so much more outside of this, especially for Snotlout, Ruff and Tuff. I mean really, Snotlout in the 3rd film was painted as a misogynistic asshole when he literally had an entire episode in RTTE where he fixes that with the Wing Maidens??? ("Snotlout's Angels," S5 E4)
*TLDR; I feel like its such a HUGE missed opportunity and straight-up ruins the side characters simply by ignoring the shows. It devalues their characters to "haha bully friends," and it's just so, so insulting... The films could've been SO much better if they just accepted the shows as canon.*
Edit: Also, it's Red Death, not Green Death! It was irking me just a little bit, lol. As characters, the Red Death and the Green Death are two different dragons. Red Death is from the first film, while the Green Death is from a game (from what I remember).
Edit 2: OH ALSO GRIMMEL HAS NOTHING ON VIGGO AS A VILLAIN. Even Drago Bludvist, man! Grimmel as a villain is just so bland, he's literally nothing more than "evil hiccup" and that's it! They literally should've brought back Drago, you know, the man who doesn't back down from a fight. Of course, that's if he didn't drown after being dragged into the ocean by his bewilderbeast.
I've heard this from a few ppl now that the characters had better development in the show- and if that is true, that is just, embarrassing pffff
(I have not watched any of the shows apart from a couple episodes from the first one when I was younger) ((I didn't continue watching it cause I did not enjoy the writing))
I personally don't agree that the shows should be considered canon- or I'm kinda whatever about it, but point is, it wouldn't make this third movie any better. They should have just, not written them like this in the first place.
Also Gift of the Night Fury is actually canon! Cause they directly reference it in the third movie.
oH MY GOSH Originally I wrote it as the 'red death' in the entire script but searched it up just to make sure and it said it was actually the green death?? so I corrected it to that- so confused LMAO google lied to me
Also yeah, again I haven't watched the shows so I don't know Viggo but pFTF eXACTLY. Grimmel is so eh. If they really wanted a villian, yeah I feel like they really could have done more with Drago or the remains of his fleet or something.
Yes you are wrong byeeee 💅🏻💅🏻💅🏻
@@MyUniverseinaBox The series is actually good when race to the edge comes along
I just wanted the Fishlegs and Heather ship to make it to the movie. 😭
Green Death is the villain from he first book which he series is named after
can't believe you didn't touch on this, but Ruffnut's literal entire character in the 2nd movie is just "sexual assault but a woman does it to a man. please laugh." it's horrible and it's never addressed in-universe, i don't know about interviews and the like.
also i hate how the 3rd movie looks like it got some instagram soft-glow filter over the whole thing. everything is soft and blended edges, it really does look like a filter.
God I- Actually forgot about that- yeah, it was pretty gross and uncomfortable.
also plays into the 'haha look how funny it is that ruffnut loves someone cause she's so ugly and weird haha'
also yeAH TRUE It really does >:"DDD
For the second point that's my complaint exactly. The second film was characterized by the crisp blue lighting and everything looks sharp. Why does the whole 3rd film look like it was shot with a shit camera at golden hour
@@whofan1212 Especially Toothless.. every time I see him in the third, especially in the light, he looks like playdough 💀
Ruffnut rlly shined in Race to the Edge (has its flaws but still highly recommend)
She was goofy like her brother but it's shown they both have good ideas that they just present them in different ways. And it's also stated that she purposefully fucks w villains.
For example, in a scene similar to fhe httyd 3's "annoying ruffnut scene", she tries to annoy the villain in order to confuse him. When he threatened her she looked him dead in the eye and says "take your best shot pal"
It's sad to see characters who sad sm good development in the show (snotlout and ruffnut specifically) go into the trash in the 3rd movie, which more ppl would've watched and know the characters for
Ruffnut's (and Tuffnut's too tbh) entire personality is shit in the movies. Just look at the relationship the twins have. In the show, we have entire episodes of them being a good match, being bonded and sticking together no matter what. We have scenes where Ruffnut defends her brother to the teeth and scenes where Tuffnut risks his life for his sister
Yet in the movie they're back to being the generic "haha twins who actually hate each other" clichée.
Like, Rtte Tuffnut would've never, EVER left Ruffnut behind. He literally faked his death in Rtte so Ruffnut could be free and happy, for crying out loud!
"That's my sister out there, Astrid. If this goes wrong and we don't safe her, I couldn't live with myself." VS "I avoid looking at her. Gives me acid reflux"
I rest my case.
THIS VIDEO MAKES ME FEEL SO SEEN. I've gone on my own rants with my friends on the exact same points-the misogyny, the mistreatment of the deathgrippers, httyd3 having WAY lower stakes than httyd2, the themes contradicting each other. You understand me.
Me too! It’s so nice finally finding people that agree with you and also spotted these things
I always loved HTTYD for its message about platonic love. I have since forever cherished my friends more than I would ever a romantic partner. Imagine the disappointment I felt when I heard about the Light Fury and that it would become a love interest. I still gave it a chance, but all the things that were said in the movie, the typical "now that they found a partner their friends are not important anymore", it's just what I always hear in society and it makes me incredibly sad. The first time I saw HTTYD3, I cried during the separation scene, but not because of the separation, but because it hit too close to what I've been taught (but I refuse to believe): your friends will leave you once they find love.
HTTYD might be my favorite movie of all time. It makes me happy, makes me dream of possibilities. HTTYD3 is depressing and defeatist. I will never understand why they decided to go in that direction.
It is indeed true, friends lose time for each other as they find lovers and have a family, but do they completely leave each other, and decide never to see or talk again? Uh no.
However me and my best friend haven’t won 3 wars, defeated 2 massive dragons, he didn’t disable me and I didn’t kill his dad, so I can’t say for sure 😂.
YES! What makes the first movie so powerful is that it’s about a real, mutual and deep friendship that is supposed to be the BACKBONE of the ENTIRE FRANCHISE. Toothless and Hiccup *love* each other. They’re there for each other when no one else is and I just??? People should respect important platonic relationships more. fuck.
i’m aroace and my GOD, this message is so so so tired. i really appreciated the emphasis on friendship and platonic love in the first film but this one just throws it out the window
This idea, actually, at 33:00 is actually the kind of realization that I had which lead to my first and second breakups. I was becoming a version of myself that I didn't want to be. A version of myself that had no world outside of romance, sex, and making life plans with that one person who I met and decided to obsess over and project all my needs onto.. I unconsciously decided (or perhaps was forced to due to necessity of finite time, and the priority structure I had of a romantic relationship being above everything else) to separate from a lot of who I am, including my previous interests and mannerisms, as well as my friends, who had always been there when I needed them, and always loved me, even if not expressing it often.
This. This is exactly what I thought watching the third movie, especially being aromantic myself. Thank you for voicing this because damn did it hit close to home.
I still refuse to believe that EVERY dragon left to the hidden world like toothless isn't the only Alpha Dragon out there so why would EVERYONE listen to him?
I totally agree. Going off of Race to the Edge, there are at least two more Bewilderbeasts that are alive and a natural alpha species. The titan wing variants of each species also have an alpha role to normal members of their respective species.
The captions keep putting Grimmel and as Grandma and its really funny.
“All dragons and humans obliged because apparently Grandma was too scary?”
LMAO. omg
The captions are disrespecting him, as they should 🙏
One thing makes the franchise even worse: as soon as Dean took sole control, Hiccup turned into a self-insert Mary Sue to channel Dean's personal experiences. Overly Sarcastic Production's video is the perfect diagnostic outline, Hiccup exists to the exclusion of EVERYTHING and everyone else, even the _world_ doesn't extend past his shadow. You know, the world that's supposed to be 'our' world. There's nothing out there, just wilderness and random people on boats painted with a thin veneer of franken-cultures. This gets exponentially worse in THW, where nothing, and I mean _nothing_ exists that doesn't serve Hiccup. Even Toothless's 'romance' _only exists_ to push Hiccup's 'fly on your own' character arc, which is an arc he's _already gone through._ No other characters are allowed to be smart, capable, or autonomous. There ARE no other character arcs, Toothless has everything he wants handed to him on a silver platter. All the other dragons and Berkians are reduced to brainless robots with no wants or needs of their own, so they can't interfere with Hiccup's plans.
There is one, and _only_ one arc that exists independent of Hiccup, even though he tried to initiate it: Eret's turn to the rider's side. It was Stormfly that actually made him change, and he's the only reason Astrid and co are still alive. These scenes are stunning, so very sincere and heartfelt, and proof of what Hiccup could do if he was actually _allowed_ to try talking to other, regular people. And yet, by the time of THW Eret's been benched so hard he doesn't even get to fight with the rest of the cast, the camera literally cuts away to get back to Hiccup. And outside the films, he's regularly ignored or outright forgotten within the fandom (no offense meant of course lol, just case in point). There were a thousand things they could've done with this character, but nope. He's _too_ competent and thus a threat to Dean's favorite boy. Hell, we see him with Skullcrusher, _Stoick's dragon,_ all of... twice? three times? And two of those three times were just, them in the background of a travel scene. He's allowed no dignity or relevance (because he's not Hiccup), even if he could've added something meaningful to the plot because APPARENTLY in a comic that never got released, HE WAS THE SON OF A CHIEF TOO.
(No, this was not relevant in the comic either, because for some reason no one knows what to do with a character that has unlimited potential if it would involve relations between characters that aren't explicitly romantic, and that's not allowed in this franchise anymore.)
I agree with everything you said, though maybe not as extreme as you, but I get what you meant.
Honestly I never even thought of this, well said and good point
It rly does seem Hiccup is really one of the few characters that is allowed to have.. character
It's really unfortunate they didn't do more with Eret as well, yeah. Just another case of them either dumb-ing down the side characters or pushing them off to the side. Seems Eret got the latter treamtment..
Also heck I had no idea he was also the son of a chief??? Is that why they always refer to him as Eret son of Eret?? Huh..
I really wish they did more with the characters and world. They expanded a bit on it in the second but yeah honestly the third does feel really empty...
@@MyUniverseinaBox Yeah that happened in the Fire Tides comic that never got released due to development hell. Audrie Greywind recently did an interview with Richard Hamilton to reveal the plot, as it last stood anyway, and aside from that it was full of... frankly harebrained nonsense like Gothi having an evil twin. The comics are in the same limbo as the tv shows, since they go completely ignored by the films and leave far more questions than answers.
But the film world feels empty, because it _is._ There are no other civilizations, no other good characters with narrative autonomy that _could_ be the source of more stories like in say, Star Wars.
But on top of that, THW is like, 80% tell, 20% completely-contradictory show. We're _told_ the armada is the worst thing ever, and yet the second Hiccup leaves it in pursuit of Grimmel it just... ceases to exist. We're _told_ Grimmel is the best hunter EVAR and yet... he can't bait a trap, and has to be explicitly told to follow his prey, by his prey, when he's ALREADY had two opportunities to do so, _and_ he has zero proof of his claim of killing all Night Furies. We're told the Hidden World is the only safe place for dragons... but shown a dank cave with no food or water, when New Berk is _equally_ unreachable if you aren't a dragon. Plus, to quote Jack Sparrow....
If the HW is soooooooo secret, _where do the stories come from I wonder?_
OMG YES!!! This put my thoughts on the characters into words so well!
Can I ask of something tho? I tried to find the Overly Sarcastic Productions' video you mentioned, but I tried every search I could think of, and I tried to find it manually by scrolling among their videos... And yet, I couldn't find anything regarding the HTTYD franchise, if we don't count their video on dragons as a whole, as a trope. I believe I'm somehow missing it, despite my best efforts, and it sound so interesting, I would really love to watch it. Could you possibly give a hint about the video's name or a link, anything really?
@@ladyyoyo5418 Oh, it wasn't a HTTYD-specific video, it was one about the Mary Sue trope which just-so-happens to apply to Hiccup now that he's the center of the entire universe of the franchise. That should be much easier to find!
I saw a little animatic someone made where Hiccup finds a baby Night Fury chained up instead of the Light Fury. It would have been SO much more amazing if Toothless was protecting and teaching a baby Night Fury! 🥹 Why Dreamworks?! WHY?!
This is a little late but yes i totally agree! i saw it awhile ago and now its my new headcanon. The third movie never happened the way it did, and toothless is an awesome mentor/adopted dad now, no one can convince me otherwise
AAHHHH I NEED TO SEE THIS
@@imverygay7572 ua-cam.com/video/a4OfHKvaCS8/v-deo.html
59:52 The very result in the ‘Homecoming’ special where Hiccup’s daughter & son develop a fear of dragons due to knowing NOTHING about them! 🤦♀️
Utterly baffling how Hiccup let that slide.
Also something funny to note. The ending of the book series is not entirely about separation. Most of the dragons separate, yes, however Toothless and a few others stay behind. So even in the book series, Toothless and Hiccup are still with each other.
"But the story of Toothless and Hiccup is all about growing up and learning to be without each other and friends ofc never stay forever in your life!" - some HTTYD 3 defender, probably
@anfani6839 "Also can't forget that friends just entirely forget about each other's existence after awhile, that's called growing up!"
@@AmirPrinceling "Yeaa!!! You better settle down and marry and have children like any normal grown up would!!!!"
Me yep @@anfani6839
Your explaination of the separation hits. I was in a rough point in my life when the 3rd movie came out but was so excited to watch it, only for the movie to tell me "Give up". That I should give up on my dreams for the future, stay scared and do what the bad guy wants by staying isolated. It really really wasn't what I needed to hear.
I too, really enjoyed the lightfury's design, at first. My immediate impression was that she was meant to be cave dwelling, seeing that I already had some knowledge as to where the hidden world was located. It was the obvious assumption. Her design made total sense. When I looked into it further, I was absolutely disgusted. She was not only created to have a "feminine shape", but they also removed so many of the draconic features that toothless has. Visible scales? Nope, she has to have glitter skin. They gave her no sharp points, changing what were spikes on toothless to curved Fins. The Creators are clearly able to make female characters that look normal, but decide to mess up so badly here? Really?
I liked that they at least kept the rounder and smoother look for both the males and females. I can see dragons living in a cave like habitat having different skin/scales than others. Her design being inspired after snow leopards also makes sense for how she looks to me
The design would have worked, as mentioned in the video, if they had actually shown her making use of those adaptations. I 100% see your point, but it was the intentions behind it that made this so terrible. I still like the design, but they could have designed a girl without trying so hard to make her distinctly feminine.
There are explanations for the changes we see, but none of them are hinted at in the show, apart from her being cave dwelling. I would have loved to see what is basically a night fury that had adapted to its environment, but unfortunately that isn't what the movie delivered.
Realistically too, females are bigger and more aggressive then a male. Not all the time but it's pretty common in reptiles and even birds. Her "feet" bother me because they're so small how does she even eat or protect herself?
womp womp they made her womanly
@@flinsterckx8123 yes lets give a male reptile small curly spikes on it's chest to simulate chest hair and avoid giving it yellow and beige scales to enhance it's masculinity because men shouldnt be blonde.
It was so wierd that grimmel said that they cant survive out The cold when Toothless survives an life taking iceblast from an Alpha Dragon the sice of berk the island itself and he liked to cold in Httyd 2 visibly
Plus Hiccup said in Berks first introduction “it snows nine months of the year and hails the other three” How could Toothless survive that much cold?? Grimmel is stupid
@@SolvaneonAndBenjamin yeah XD
Kinda funny too how they completely disregarded the fact that Hiccup was suppose to be a runt? By the next few movies hes just as big as all his friends? It would have been cool if astrid grew past him lol idk 😐
Oh god the side characters being treated like that after race to the edge broke me. Snot got mature and even took responsibility and cared for the fire worm queen and defended her. Rough and tough get closer and even show that if she got married that she would have her partner live with her and her twin brother. Also can we talk about how not strait snot is? Like he kissed fishlegs when he was thore bone crusher. Like i dont think fish and him would work out since snot is definitely more into "manly men" but like still 0-0
Also toothless would literally never leave hiccup its insane
It is indeed insane
I skipped watching HTTYD3 solely from seeing the commercials and thinking "they made the female night fury white? so it's just going to be a dragon love story? boring!" I enjoyed your ranting and learning that I got to miss things I would have hated even more.
PFT Fair enough honestly HAHA
I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it! :D
@@MyUniverseinaBox Fun fact: Toothless/Light Fury was never a love story. It's just obsessive lust being disguised as such.
Still a good movie tbh. It’s not a banger like the first 2 but it’s still fantastic.
@@jorgebersabe293 True!
Same, her design is so boring too it’s just the Stitch/Angel marketing strategy all over again
God, this was so cathartic to watch. The fact that THW gets the praise it does and is lauded as having a "mature" message drives me insane, because the inconsistencies and audience manipulation feels so obvious
I really think the ship was doomed to sink once Chris Sanders left after the first film and HTTYD was slated to be a profitable franchise. I'm sure Dean is a fine writer, but if the first film and lilo and stitch are anything to go by, he doesn't work best alone. If you watch the documentary on the making of HTTYD 1, a lot of what makes it so special really is Chris's touch. And it's painful to see how hard everyone worked on that film, how many genius creative decisions were being made to complete a work of art, only to be degraded to this :(
Nah Dude People are not Wrong for Defending HTTYD 3
@@dragozillasaur813 and I'm not wrong for being a hater what's your point
@@Skelekin13 I',m saying HTTYD 3 is underrated
@@dragozillasaur813 how is it underrated?
@@The_color_blue It is Underrated by the majority of Fans
The clips of side characters bullying Hiccup was honestly so hurtful to watch 😥😥 youd think by now all of his friends would show much respect for him and to make the burn worse when he was insecure in some scenes none of his friends comforted him what the hell
Something hella misogynistic that's annoyed me even since my first view was also how they decided that the "Lesson" Astrid needed to learn in the third movie was.........how to be a supportive wife.
As if her being the Only one to support Hiccup as far back as the first movie wasn't a HUGE part of why they even ended up together in the first place..????
Not to mention how it's V A L K A who somehow is the Vessel for this lesson, like "support your husband the chief
It would be funnier if Valka accidentally remembered her mistakes before
Valka say: 'support your husband' until you have kids grown enough to not need milk and then -fake-your-death- *cough* I meant... run-away-with-a-dragon, BUT, make sure to tell your husband when he's being too annoying and don't fake your death...'
Astrid: 'Hiccup, your mother is very weird... She said-' Astrid tells Hiccup, who looked at her while checking the map.
Hiccup: 'Well, she faked her death, lived in the 'wilds with dragons without human contact', then learned her husband changed to love dragons and lost him in few days, then... well, I bet she feel guilty... maybe if she did things differently? Or if she was able to show dad dragons are good, without faking her death?'
Plus Astrid's "support" wasn't even really support. She just listened to Hiccup UNRIGHTLY bashing himself over things he had no control over, and then later went "Yup, very true but you're awesome still so go do things". That's not "harsh truth", that's essentially just adding to the guilt Hiccup feels for no reason.
To quote Ruffnut from Race to thr Edge: Way to go, Astrid.
When I reached the bit where you discussed Toothless' personality change, my eyes were opened. I never realized how much he changed between films. I never liked the 3rd film, but realizing this makes me almost outright hate it. Interesting analysis! I liked this video a lot! Also, having read the books, there was a good reason for it story-wise to seperate humans and dragons. It was really heartfelt and tragic! Plus, made a lot more sense than in the movies.
That's the problem though. The movies have not followed to books at all up to this point, so the ending DID NOT FIT.
Completely off-tangent, but the fact that Toothless isn't gray/black and instead a dark blue (as you mentioned 14:56) is an excellent detail the animators added! If you try hiding in the dark, wearing pure black or dark gray creates a sharp silhouette, which defeats the purpose of having a dark coat. Dark blue, however, is much better at camouflage, as your eyes can only really see blues and blacks in dim light. It compounds the idea that night furies are yes, nocturnal and yes, *need* to be able to hide in the dark, either bc their main prey is quick enough to react at the sight of them or their predators are able to eat them despite their speed and powerful (albeit limited) plasma blasts.
If they really wanted the light fury to be a diurnal equivalent, they could have had her be a lighter blue instead, with the markings more pronounced. Or, they could have made her an amphibious equivalent, where the axolotl-like frills on her act like gills. Having a dark blue coat on top (similar to Toothless) and a white underbottom (as with many sea creatures) would have helped differentiate her well! Axolotls are excellent hunters too, but were also hunted to near extinction for human consumption. It would also explain the sleeker design as lotls have a mucous coating and why she's only just now making an appearance as lotls prefer cool water over cold and arrgh this movie frustrates me.
(Sorry if I went on a rant, the first movie is just near and dear to me)
(Also the background music you chose for this video is 👌)
I think a diurnal counterpart to a night fury would be a sort of mottled white and pale grey. The colouring to blend in with the near perennial cloud cover of northern skyscapes and the mottling to break up the silhouette. Blue as camouflage would work better in an environment like a desert where clear blue skies are the norm.
Toothless’s colour being very dark blue instead of true black because of how light works makes a lot of sense. It’s also why his dappled pattern is very believable, all those subtle differences in tone help to break up his shape in low light, exactly like the melanistic leopards and jaguars that were used as inspiration for his design. It’s a colour mutation similar to albinism but rather than a total lack of pigment, the melanin pigments that are responsible for dark colours like blacks and browns are much more abundant than is typical for a species, making that animal much darker in colour than it would usually be. In spotted animals like leopards and jaguars, melanism gives their coat a very dark rust brown colour that is almost black, but doesn’t actually make them the solid black that black panthers are often depicted being; they actually still have their spotted patterns, it just that the rest of their coat is so dark it is difficult to “spot”, pun absolutely intended. Whoever came up with Toothless’s final design for the original film clearly had these panthers in mind when they added the spots to the dark blue, which just really hones in on the whole black panther vibe they were going for.
Night furies are meant to blend in with the night sky and in a natural setting, the night sky isn’t a featureless black void so it tracks that camouflaging against it requires also not being flat black. The night sky is typically a very dark purplish blue that is full of variations; the moon in its different phases, the stars, the clouds, time of night, and also living on the edge of the arctic circle where auroras occur, they’re all naturally occurring things that either cast light or change how that light behaves. It means that anything in between your eyes and the night sky is going to be backlit by all that ambient light, and that would mean a solid black object would appear as a black silhouette against the night sky. If that object was more of a dark desaturated blue with darker mottling on top however, it becomes much harder to distinguish it against the night sky.
But if there was for instance, a much brighter light source (perhaps from some giant braziers and burning buildings) somewhere nearby but not in your line of sight that would cause the sky to appear much darker and only the brightest stars to be visible, a dark coloured object moving in front of those stars would become noticeable to any eagle eyed viewer.
Which is exactly how Hiccup was able to just barely spot Toothless right before he shot him down in og HTTYD. I’d be willing to bet that without the light pollution given off by the village, he never would have been able to track his flight path nearly as well as he did.
the thing is Chris Sanders, who directed the original movie, didn’t work on sequels. that's why they seem so different. We should blame Dean DeBlois for all this
2 wasn’t bad to be fair
We don’t talk about the movie that shall not be named tho.
@@GoodMan-rf8mz the first ten minutes are really good, set a good start, but overall nah it was mid
@@wwz8319 2 was better than 3 tho
@@GoodMan-rf8mz yeah agree 3 is just dumb as hell
@@wwz8319 it was really dumb
The villain, hiccup, the light fury, the plot, toothless and the dragons leaving, were all dumb.
My biggest problem was probably how out of character toothless was
36:51 OMG! Someone else NOTICED!
I loved the freckles, dirt & scars the Croods had but were smoothed over, yet somehow that took away from the beauty of their original look. Eep was allowed to keep some scars to look ‘tough’ in front of Dawn but even the unique features of her face were really toned down 😞
It would make sense for the Bettermans to look like this but not the Croods or even Guy who while used less rough means to survive still got dirty from time to time.
The light fury's design was a huge deal among the dragon communities I was a part of for the reasons you described. Lots of people "fixed" her design to make her more like how she should look without all those issues.
Another thing I noticedt is, that in the tv series, race to the edge it is mentioned multiple times, that the dragon of the twins cant be flown by one person so it doesnt make any sense, that he could just fly back home without his sister
If there's one trope I got so tired of for female characters is that so many love interests are designed with hearts, pink and just overly feminine features. Why are girls specifically associated with love hearts anyway? It's really weird.
This film has a ridicilous defeatist attitude. "Hey remember how we told (and showed) you again and again how we are stronger together? How we will not be put down by jerks and will change this world for the better bit by bit? Yeah screw all that. It's better to not even try so let the jerks ruin it for everyone and wait for the world to magically fix itself... even though we have already shown change requires effort. Now forget about your friends and ideals and go do some breeding instead. Cuz obviously you can't have both and chasing tail is the be all end all."
Cry More, HTTYD 2 purist
My interpretation of Toothless based on the first movie was simply that, the reason he was lighting and death itself was simply because his high degree of specialization made him almost impossible to actually counteract during the night and the reason he was the only one was he was simply stranded outside his usual habitat.
The specialization bit is obvious as he’s only really more dangerous than other dragons at night and isn’t particularly bulky, plus dive bombing seems to make his blasts a lot stronger.
However by stranded, I mean he is a southern species. I say this because up north, besides the fact they have no information on his species, black coloration would actually be disadvantageous due to the lower uv light levels, hence why usually the only species in northern climates that are fully black are bats, and even then they’re often brown. On top of that, night furies seem to have no natural competition around Berk. Not even a noticeable threat really. Beyond that, his traits seem completely unique to him with no real comparison. This all points to a species out of place.
But yknow the later movies said he is simply a Godzilla, invisible, last of his species, dopey, dog gigachad so of course I’m sure they put a lot of thought into it.
I had the exact same thought about Toothless being stranded! I imagined Night Furies existing more on mid to west Europe. Toothless could've been seperated from his flock as a young dragon by a storm or something and ended up far north. Then, he ended up in the range of the brainwashing by the Red Death for some years. That would also explain why the Berkians have zero info on Night Furies: they've simply never had to deal with any before! I'm still so mad that Deblois doesn't treat Toothless as a character, imagine if the third movie was about Toothless finding back his family. Then you could have had the more book-like ending, with Toothless leaving with his family for a bit before returning to be with Hiccup again.
I figured the lightning part of his namesake was added because the sonic booms Night Furies make when diving, and the crack of his plasma blasts hitting their target almost sounds like thunder and lightning respectively. You hear the initial boom, and then the "lightning" strikes with a sharp cracking noise.
To be honest I wished there was a scenario where toothless meets another night fury or at least some of his own kind.
Yeh but what happens then, does the same movie play out but the light fury is just a night fury? Cause that wouldn’t work.
I’ve been waiting for a long video essay like this! Like many, I too was surprised that not many people were making videos on this movie and it’s confusing narrative choices, so seeing this pop up in my recommended videos was such an incredible surprise.
I was sad and disappointed with the movie’s direction and how they made the characters feel like hollow shells of their former selves, especially with Toothless and Hiccup. I really dislike how toothless was just ready to leave Hiccup for a random girl he just met, what’s even worse is that they don’t even give the lightfury a name, and yet their offspring have names.
I also don’t understand is why they never paid off the “He [Toothless] may very well be the last of his kind”, like, if there were ever to be a place to FINALLY see this paid off, it would have been in this protected “hidden world”. Like, what if instead of the lightfury and half baked romance, we had Toothless instead discover his long lost family or a small herd of other nightfury that managed to stay safe from [*Insert villain name] by hiding in the protected hidden world. Because realistically , I find it hard to believe that arguably the fastest, most elusive and intelligent dragon species got wiped out by some shallow whiney hunter with a shallow goal. I know that he’s smart and doesn’t HAVE to have a deep reason to hunt nightfury beyond wanting glory, but it makes him such a boring antagonist... Not to mention we’ve already seen this character trope done WAY better with Viggo from Race to the edge.
Considering how many times they bring this “last of his kind” and “Hiccup and Toothless parting ways” plot points, I thought that the story conflict and reveal (before movie 3 came out) was finally going to pay this off by having the catalyst that would cause Hiccup and Toothless to part ways be for the protection of the few remaining nightfury. I personally feel that the dragons leaving was unnecessary and went against the themes previously seen in the movies and Tv shows, but Considering how determined they were to end with “There were dragons when I was a Boy” line from the book, they could have at least included a more realistic reason for the two to part ways, like Toothless finding his family/other nightfury and having to stay to protect them from extinction, instead of a cliché and shallow romance plot.
Anyways, sorry for the rant! 😅
Thank you for you for all your hard work and creating a long in depth video about the issues we’ve all had towards the 3rd movie
Ayo thankyou!! I'm glad you enjoyed it :']
Also yeah I can kind of get never giving the light fury a name in this context cause she never like, domesticated, If you could say that- but they still could have. But then.. yeah naming the nightlights was really just- well! now it really doesn't make sense for them not to have named the LF :///
and yeah the no more night fury's thing was bs, I hate it, I'm glad so many people agree AGUYGDW. I think one of the original ideas for httyd3 included more night fury's as well. Sigh.
But yeah I agree with you on all this obviously, the entire thing makes no sense- and Grimmel was indeed a half baked villian - especially compared to the villians previous.
I haven't watched Race to the edge, but a fair few people have mentioned Viggo being a better villian than Grimmel now as well.
also ur all good! rant away, and thanks again!
there's a post i found once that pieced together a scrapped httyd3 script seen in the bts videos. it had toothless leaving because his bond with hiccup was used against their flock, and finding more night furies in the hidden world with the help of stormfly. :(
HTTYD 2 was one of the best animated sequels to a series I have ever seen, in my personal opinion, despite its relatively minor design and character flaws. It wasn't afraid to delve into a darker and more serious storyline after the first movie's more comedy/friendship focused story. After the sequel was finished and the 3rd (supposedly final) movie was announced, I was very hyped up considering the director stated that they were going to follow a similar ending to the book series.
Then the poster came out...then the trailer...and I lost all interest in the franchise. Literally. I only watched the 3rd movie once, and never have again. I've watched the 1st and 2nd movies more times than I can count.
The 3rd movie just kind of back-peddled the story of the first two movies, more specifically the first one.
Too bad HTTYD 3 is My personal Favorite and it doesn't deserve the hate
@@dragozillasaur813 I respect that. I may not agree but I respect your opinion.
@@dragozillasaur813 I respect that you have an opinion. Some people just don’t have the movie criticism in them, an httyd 3 by itself is a cool movie: the only thing I don’t like about it is because it’s a sequel, if it was it’s own idea maybe it wouldn’t be so bad.
I am 100% right there with you. I loved the first one, but HTTYD 2 blew me away with just how damn good it was. Everything from the characters, score, themes, visuals, all of it, I loved it so much. Hiccup's speech at the end of the film made me more hyped than I have EVER been for an upcoming sequel. My mind went crazy imagining all the things that might happen and I trusted that the writers knew what they were doing (because it seemed like they had a solid plan and direction based on the first two films). But the 3rd movie, man... I don't think I've ever been more disappointed in a movie actually. It was horrible. And not even in a "oh, it was good but could have been better" kind of way. There is nothing redeemable about it.
Httyd 2 is literally the weakest one, lmao. 💀
Great video! Glad to see HTTYD3 criticism finally make it to the UA-cam/video essay realm.
FYI about the HTTYD books, you're absolutely correct that basically the only things they share in common with the films is a few of the characters' names and the basic fact that it's about vikings and dragons, i.e. the films are an "in name only" adaptation. However, you were slightly off about the books portraying an "inherently unhealthy relationship" between dragons and humans -- it was definitely shown that the CURRENT paradigm of SOME humans abusing dragons (and enslaving other humans for that matter...) was wrong and could not be sustained, but it's not portrayed as something inherent or unchangeable to human nature, seeing as Hiccup himself treats dragons respectfully and fights to end slavery, and the whole exploitative system was only instituted due to the actions of one person in the not-so-distant past anyway. The overall themes of friendship and love overcoming obstacles are similar if not even more emphasized in some ways.
Anyway, the ending in question -- all the dragons leaving -- happens only after a several-book-long WAR between (most) dragons and (some) humans where each is trying to exterminate the other. Long story short, Hiccup manages to end the war, but not without sacrifices, and most of the Dragon Rebellion can't bring themselves to forgive humankind. The Rebellion included the vast majority of dragons, hence their apparent extinction, but there were some notable exceptions who chose to live the rest of their lives with the humans they loved... most notably TOOTHLESS HIMSELF! Toothless is described as going off to visit the other dragons regularly, but always coming back to Hiccup, for the rest of Hiccup's life, because their bond is unbreakable! The supposed "ending where Toothless leaves" DOESN'T EVEN HAPPEN IN THE BOOKS! Almost as if the filmmakers didn't bother to actually read the books at all beyond that "there were dragons when I was a boy" excerpt without the important context needed to explain it! Wow!
Trying not to get too outraged over fiction but dang it. The books are so under-appreciated in comparison to the films, so it sucks that the filmmakers willfully misrepresented what they're all about for the sake of a cheap tearjerker.
OHhhHHH I see! That's interesting, thankyou for telling me this!
I probably should have done more researching about the books tbh >:"D
Also yeah gosh, the 'it's human nature to be greedy' is such a bs thing, I just didn't bring it up int the video cause I didn't want to get into it (the more I think about it now tho, I kinda wish I did, but oh well augsef) - so yeah that's cool to see that idea in the books being challenged! I'm not surprised to hear that the filmmakers didn't read the books properly in that case as well ahygsuyef typical
Anyways yea thanks for the comment, and for the compliment!
I might pin ur comment so ppl know,,
It feels about as disrespectful toward the audience as the ending of Battlestar Galactica. If you know, you know.
You got the ending of the books wrong.
Toothless did leave with the dragons, but would come back to visit Hiccup from time to time, but as time went on, the visits became more and more years apart to the point Hiccup said he felt the next visit would probably be the last.
@@willfanofmanyii3751 It's implied it'll be his last visit more so because Hiccup is an old man nearing his death rather than Toothless not returning. His extended absences are more about Toothless growing into his adulthood and becoming more independence, reassuring the reader that Toothless will be ok without Hiccup, rather than the two parting ways.
If I remember right too, the Dragons don't immediately choose to leave but start doing so nearing his death for the reasons outlined, so they do try. And that's following a much heavier history with the humans than the films.
I love everything about this, but as a book reader, I want to give some extra clarity about the book series and it's ending, to really just hammer in the point WHY it was done, and why it worked, and why the decision to put that ending on the movies was disgusting, baffling, hollow, and completely unearned.
MAJOR spoilers for the books, obviously.
Also very long comment warning lol
We know about the relationship between humans and dragons going back to about a thousand years before the start of the book series.
Hiccup the first was born in a time when dragons and humans were enemies. They were at war with each other. But one day he found an injured dragon, nursed it back to health, and became the first human to ever befriend and fly with a dragon. Wodensfang (the dragon) gave Hiccup a jewel that could be used to destroy dragon kind as a sign of trust. Hiccup ended the war by threatening to use the Jewel, causing the dragons to back off.
After that, dragons and humans became friends, they were equals. It's explicitly stated they "were fed first at every hunt, sat around the fire with men and gave their opinions before attacks."
(This is a really fun example of the movies pulling stuff from the books, but still being it's own thing. The httyd1 plot is very similar to the story of Hiccup the first, but still changes it up and makes it it's own thing.)
There's some grey area for the next 900 years or so, but by the time Grimbeard the Ghastly comes into power, about 100 years before the start of the books, the relationship was still pretty good, is a little strained.
Grimbeard, however, was an asshole. He refused to take a brand given to kings (one Hiccup the first took as a sign of his friendship to Wodensfang and loyalty to the dragons) and instead declared that symbol the mark of a slave. He made it illegal to speak Dragonese (the dragon language) and enslaved dragons to build his empire.
Grimbeards son, Hiccup the second, was raised by dragons after being sent away because he was a runt. He and his dragon brother, Furious, are captured by Grimbeard when the pair are teenagers. Grimbeard let his son stay, because he believed fate had allowed the boy to live, but Hiccup was not happy with seeing dragons being enslaved.
He and Furious organised a peaceful demonstration to show that dragons were not a threat and could instead be friends. Grimbeard was tricked by his other son into believing this was going to be a violent attack, and murdered Hiccup the second. Furious was captured and imprisoned on the Island of Berserk, where he remained for 100 years, going mad with grief and rage.
Hiccup the third is born into a world where dragons and humans work together, but the relationship tends to lean closer to master and pet, though there are absolutely still dragons enslaved.
Hiccup the third eventually finds and frees Furious who, enraged at humanity for the harm they've done, and will do to dragons (Furious can literally see the future) gathers an army of dragons and begins an all-out war.
Dozens of tribes are forced to flee their homes, which are turned to ash by the dragons.
Eventually Furious confronts Hiccup the Third again, and they talk it out. Hiccup promises to do everything he could to help dragons, Furious gets stabbed with a deadly poisonous blade by a witch that crawls around like a dog, and Hiccup suggests that if things are not better by the time he is old, the dragons could begin to hide.
Furious, actively dying from the poison, agrees this is a good idea and decides to be the first to leave, returning to the deep sea to die in peace.
By the time Hiccup is old, things have not gotten good enough, and the dragons slowly start to leave. Wilder species first, ones you wouldn't even know were missing, then slowly, over many years, more common ones pulled away too. But even after years upon years of the dragons slowly leaving, Toothless still stays with Hiccup. He's not there all the time, but he always comes back.
It is EXPLICITLY STATED in the books "they didn't all leave at once"
The decision for the dragons to leave is also made BY THE DRAGONS, without any input by Hiccup himself. He suggested the initial idea, but it was Luna, the dragon queen, who made the decision for dragons to begin to hide. These are sentient creatures with language, traditions, and culture that is very deliberately compared to that of the vikings. For all intents and purposes, dragons are humans with weirder bodies.
1000+ years of a cycle of violence, with dragons being explicitly portrayed as just as intelligent and sentient as people, and a final all-out war with thousands of dragons, led by a dragon that makes the Bewilderbeast look piddly in comparison, versus all of human kind, was what it took for the dragons to leave in the books.
In the movies is was a skinny white twink who's only goal was to kill a single individual dragon and had like 6 dragons under easily-breakable mind control to help him that had Hiccup (and Hiccup alone) making the decision that every single dragon needed to leave right this instant.
Like, even with the most basic, surface-level understanding of the books, the idea of putting their ending onto the movies was baffling. And then when you actually know the plot of the books, it gets so, so much worse. And isn't helped by Grimmel being a piss-poor threat (that doesn't even crack the top 3 in terms of villains who caused genuine harm and posed genuine threat) that in no ways warrants the insane response he's given. Especially since HIS GOAL in the film (alongside killing 1 dragon) was to make humans and dragons not coexist anymore!
Oh my that's a lot of lore, I didn't know the books were so in depth! :0
and some of that seems pretty dark for a kids story too, wow
In any case HAHA. All this just makes the movie more and more embarrassing and nonsensical, huh lmao
tho even if the movies followed the way the book did it with all the dragons leaving slowly n' all, the books and movies still are not related in the slightest- they don't make sense to the end the same way even remotely
also I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
I'll have to pick up the books again at some point
Instead of spoiling I'm more interested now 😂
Beautiful Gudrun And they actually go out of the way to 'make fun' of the source Material in Race to The Edge. Just look at this nonsensical exchange
between Hiccup and Alvin who were Mortal Enemy's in the books. [Hiccup: Hi Alvin! Great to See you!-----Alvin: Same to you Hiccup!] that doesn't even go
anywhere. Writers were just laughing at the expense of the book fans! And that scene were Snotlout was trying to become king of that one lady's tribe in
Race to Edge. She told him "If you wish to be King, survive taking this Arrow to your Heart." Not only did book Snotlout want to be King taking an arrow to the
chest was exactly how he met his death while defending Hiccup. That like Dean claiming his version is "More than a little dragon that talks." is just unforgivable.
Interesting! I thought the books were totally different than that and were extremely childish (the one I read had Hiccup and Toothless and was branded as the first book. It was very childish). So, I assume the books don’t have a chronological order and are random stories, or the first book was a sequel and the other books are prequels? I’ve been meaning to buy them for a few years now but I never have! I only have the audiobook version lol!
@@pizzatime3752 No. it's an chronological
story. It's similar to Harry Potter in how it
starts relatively light and silly but gets
steadily darker the deeper you go in.
Funnily enough like Wings of Fire (Which
is an Brutal series!) it never received the
YA label despite how dark it winds up
getting. I actually never thought the
original book that childish. Just read-over
that part with The Green Death! That sea-
serpent is really freakin' deep and scary.
Like Hannibal Lector as an Dragon!
God I’m glad you commented on toothless’s eyebrows. The first movie had a little “design philosophy” bonus feature that I watched on loop as a kid and can NOT find on UA-cam but it talked about how carefully the animators handed Toothless’s facial rigging, modeling, and expressions because they wanted him to be expressive, but not extremely human like. They specifically commented on how they didn’t want him to have very distinct eyebrows because it made him too human
Imagine what happened to the Defenders of the Wing from RTTE after Toothless recalled every dragon to the hidden world 💀💀💀
I haven't watched any of the shows but I think I know what ur referring to and lmao AGDUYWG
@@MyUniverseinaBox Defenders of the wing raised and took care off baby razor whips.
I’m also wondering what happened to Dagger and Heather, I feel like it would be awkward if they met up again and only they had dragons, hearing that toothless left hiccup because he found a female. Because before, in gift of the Nightfury, toothless did not want to fly on his own, and he only wanted to fly with hiccup, as one. But as soon as a female is introduced, toothless wants to straight up leave and abandon his only life for some slimy looking sparkle dragon.
@@nataliefoley5922
Those were Wing Maidens.
Defenders of the Wing are the group lead by Mala that protects dragons and is under the protection of Eruptodon.
If he leaves their Island, they're gonna quite literally perish-
Counter-arguments for this movie's massage:
1. Movie: Hiccup and Toothless need to grow up and become the independant leaders they are meant to be and dragons aren't safe on Earth so let's relocate them in a cave under the surface.
Also movie: Hiccup and Toothless relied on each other by the end of the movie to fight Grimmel. If Hiccup didn't let go off of light fury than Toothless would've died, and if light fury didn't come to pick Hiccup up than he would've died. Essentially, the movie shows that the Berkians and dragons still need each other.
2. Hiccup: We need to move all the dragons to the hidden world.
Also Hiccup: I want to move all of us to the hidden world where we'll be safe from hunters and live alongside our dragons.
3. Stoick: Tells Hiccup that losing Valka was painful but saying goodbye is necessary.
Also Stoick: Sees Valka alive and kicking in HTTYD2 so suddenly saying goodbye ISN'T necessary. Again, was it really impossible to move the Berkians alongside the dragons to the hidden world?
First of all, I don't think you realize that Grimmel and other dragon hunters wouldn't be threatening Hiccup if dragons seemed to no longer exist. Second of all, the rumblehorn literally attacked Hiccup and Astrid on sight unprovoked, attempting to move to the hidden world with so many humans that would cause many human casualties. Also, they would have to mess up the beautiful landscaping to make way for their village.
@@_-NatureMations-_ 1. Hunters threatened Berk because they wanted their dragons for themselves. If the Berkians had let their dragons to the hidden world, hunters would still be threatening them to get knowledge about their dragons' whereabouts.
2. The rumblehorn attacked them because the dragons in the hidden world hate humans. However, if after the fight with Grimmel, the Berkians had arrived in the hidden world, and Toothless and light fury had insisted on giving the Berkians a chance for coexistence, the dragons in the hidden world would've been like "We can trust light fury so perhaps we can give the Berkians a chance". It's a matter of opinion, and opinions can change.
3. I mean, I get what you're saying about the beauty of the place, but it's so big I don't think a portion of it being dedicated to the Berkians would've been such damaging to the overall view of the place.
@@roiitzkovich4545 But what do you mean the dragons gave the lightfury a chance?? She was probably born there giving that we see other Lightfuries there
@@_-NatureMations-_ Exactly! And because they trust light fury, if she says the Berkians are good people and deserve to live in the hidden world, the dragons in the hidden world would've agreed.
@Roi Itzkovich But dragons are more intelligent than your average wolf. Most of them would likely have lost family to humans. That would be like if your mom told you that a bunch of random serial killers were moving in and to trust them because she makes the rules.
I have to thank you for making this video. You put into words the things ive thought for ages and was unable to vocalize. I always found myself rewatching the first movie, quite a few times but never even felt the desire to rewatch the third. Yet could never really put my finger onto w h y exactly.
However, it gets even worse when you also take into consideration both the canon shows, defenders of berk and race to the edge. ESPECIALLY Race to the edge. The characterization in that show is infinitely better than the third movie, giving all characters quite heartfelt and important moments. Not to mention, they claim in the third movie that theyve never dealt with a threat like this. Aka a villain of equal intelligence to hiccup. EXCEPT THEY DID. Someone who was arguably smarter than hiccup and won against the group several times, and not because the group was incompetent. God its so frustrating. And yes, the shows are considered canon.
The third movie just throws so much character building out of the window in favor of a bad romance story and bad humor. And it hurts because its a franchise i hold incredibly close to heart ;-;
Ah man I'm really glad to hear that! :0
Thankyou for watching it!
and oh I didn't know some of the shows were considered canon? Huh... also man that's really just sad to hear that even the characterisation in the shows was better than it was in the third film, that is embarrassing >:"D Maybe I'll have to take a peek at some of them, you've made me curious
@@MyUniverseinaBox I absolutely love race to the edge honestly. It is miles better than the third movie in terms of storytelling and takes place before the second movie, and adds context to a lot of things that were introduced in that movie. Plus that show has my absolute favorite villain from the entire series. Wont spoil the guy but youll know him when you see him. Imagine Grimmel but better in every way.
I have to stop myself from rambling about the show for ages but ill say this. All the side characters are actually portrayed more like humans. Even Snotlout and the Twins get quite important moments which hurts even more when you see the third film absolutely butcher them.
Defenders of Berk takes place right after the first movie
Race to the Edge Right before the second movie
Even if i prefer race to the edge, i still recommend watching the first show because some characters in there show up in the second show and else you miss a little bit of context
To me the shows are what the third movie should have been.
Anyway, ill stop my ramblings now, i went on for long enough lmao. Thank you again for the amazing video, its easy to see how much time and effort you put into this beast of a video. Id join the patreon but im a little broke rn lol, buuut ill continue to follow your da since thats how i even found the vid lmao
@@onyxaria2839 ohhh now you've definitely made me curious! haha
I'm getting quite a few ppl recommending the shows to me now actually
aihuisef man :']
and that's fine! The thought means a lot, like a lot a lot... thankyou sm!
I absolutely agree with Onyxaria, especially how you put to words why The Hidden World didn't hit the way I was expecting.
And yeah Grimmel is just rip off of the villain from RTTE, which made it so disappointing. I've liked the second movie more than the first for a while, but now I'm also noticing a few things that didn't line up or live up to par given how good RTTE was. 100% recommend.
Except they did say they've dealt with someone like that before.
*Another detaill of toothless design, and is that in the first movie his head was perfectly aerodynamic, the second one was not as aerodynamic but still was there, and in the third one they throwed the aerodynamic shape out of the window, his head is more shaped like a generic dragon for the "fastest dragon flying", oh well, i guess this explains why he was gliding in the air more than flying. This doesn't bothers me as much as the others aspects of the movie and i don't think is that important but still it's sad for a cool design detaill*
No absolutely, I agree
when I said aerodynamic I really meant that in every aspect
the shovel shaped head was an important part of that, and they completely destroyed it
Grimmel not getting his Night Fury facts straight (wdym they can't fly for long distances when LITERALLY IN THE SAME MOVIE the entire clan flies for a DAY or longer towards their new home. Plus toothless is the most aerodynamic of dragons with huge wings, wdym Grimmel??) and straight up having a bad story about how he killed a night fury, supposedly all night Furies, bragging about it but not wearing their skin for clothes or something makes it seem like he just puts up a front to come off as scary. Sorry DeBlois but your lousy excuse of why toothless is the last of his kind is stupid and makes no sense.
You forgot the part where he said they don't survive the Cold... If I could post images in YT comments I would send a whole album of screenshots of Toothless having the time of his life in the snow or all the lines where Hic says that Berk is extremely cold lol
@@giulf3der957Exactly. And it’s not like Toothless doesn’t fly high in the air, where it’s really cold, especially if it’s already freezing on ground/ sea level… Really, if they wanted Toothless to be the last of his species, they should’ve done better (which he didn’t have to be- DeBlois gave as an excuse that Toothless had to be special, but he deadass already is with his alpha powers and being the only Night Fury the Berkians have ever seen up close). This reason disappointed me because it’s pretty impossible to hunt down an entire species that’s not only the fastest and most intelligent of all dragons, but already rare and very solitary to begin with. Nobody had ever seen a Night Fury until Hiccup shot Toothless down, and we gotta believe that some skinny guy with thin lips hunted down all the others? Please. Finally meeting another NF after being mysterious about it was probably what kept a lot of people invested in the franchise. A better reason would be that nobody knows if they’re extinct because they’re just _that_ elusive, and the real reason would be because Night Fury territories are HUGE, and because they’re solitary like tigers. DeBlois is said to have given another stupid excuse to why they didn’t have Toothless have another Night Fury for a mate:
“Kids wouldn’t be able to tell him and his mate apart if we did.”
Just make her dark blue like Toothless was in 1 and give her a different eye color and maybe a different tail fin shape like they did with the one male light fury cameo we got in 3. Kids aren’t stupid bro 🤦
@@Ned-nw6ge For real 100%
Also I agree, at least leave the mystery unresolved on wether there's more or not, instead of straight up saying in the interviews "no they're all dead😁✨️", if they said this stuff only in the move then some people would've still questioned it, like we ARE questioning if Grimmel is even telling the truth or not, but the producers just brushing off such plot point like that... meh, I didn't like a bunch of things they claimed tbh, and this is one of them.
Yesss!!! Make her different!! Make her a different shade of black, blue, grey, give her more visible patterns, different tail shape idk something!!!
A thing that could've been awersome to see is if she was albino so she has issues with staying out in the sun and thats why he decided to stay with her at the end of the movie, to protect her. They would have continued the themes of disability, instead of getting rid of it entirely with the auto tail. (Also, yeah, even if its automatic it still needs manteinance, so maybe the story could've ended with the dragons leaving -or staying- but Toothless and the albino fury coming back in the night to get the tail repaired every once in a while)
1:15:19 the only reason why i cried at the end of the movie was because one of my most favorite series ever ended like THAT.
FOR REAL! I honestly wanna know why they decided '' You know what, lets make Toothless and everyone else leave their loved ones for the hidden world for.. i dont know '', honestly they had a good chance at getting the classic happy ending but they just decided to not use it and instead use it when it dosent really make sense, like when Toothless was getting attacked by the deathgrippers he could have easily gotten atleast a little bit injured because of the fact they can litteraly just spray acid everywhere if they wanted too, and dont forget their scorpion-like tails.
Just a mention, green death is not the one in the first film, that's the red death! She has a very neat design in my opinion and is one of my top favorites along with zipplebacks and cloudjumper
Yeah I had someone else point this out a bit ago as well
oops HAHA
I originally had it all written as the 'red death' in the entire script, but I searched it up just to double check and make sure I had it right
and it gave me the name 'green death' so I corrected it to that - I didn't realise that was the name of a similar looking but different dragon
pFT
And yeah they do have pretty neat designs! Cloudjumper is very high on the list of fav dragons for me as well
love that one
@@MyUniverseinaBox Thanks for responding, neat vid too! Randomly this got recommended even if my casket of hatred for the issues in the 3rd movie died down a few months back lol, still more things to look out for though
@@crowd-crows Of course!
and thankyou, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
@@MyUniverseinaBox
Please don't feel too bad getting the red and green deaths mixed up; not even the franchise is consistent about it. The dragon in the first movie is specifically referred to as the "Green Death" in the movie's score (the piece that plays over the fight scene is called 'Battling the Green Death'). It was first called the "Red Death" in the first season of the TV show, and subsequent media kept using it. I assume the production notes from the first movie called it the Green Death, and for some reason or another, a higher up made the decision to change it during the production of later installments of the franchise.
After the movie was over in the first watching I knew I didn't like it. Mainly, and I do nearly mean solely, because of the message. *Stronger together*. The first and second built up with ultimately helpful symbiotic relationships. One that was real and earned its right to be there. Then at some push back they throw it all away for the, "benefit," of the crew. NO!
I have had friends before, I have had pets before, they are worth fighting for. I prematurely had them removed from my life under the gauze of benefit, when it ultimately made me more lonely.
Also, logically speaking, there is no way the, "all dragons going into the hole," thing works. No way. There are absolutely dragons that would want to stay in their homes. They are living things with personalities. The only way that step was taken was because toothless forced all of these creatures down without their consent. Which is cruel.
I’m just gonna say it. Toothless is a horrible Alpha.
@@OneBrokenEgg if the movie is cannon, honestly ya.
@@OneBrokenEgg no you mean, fake toothless is a terrible alpha.
What we saw in the third movie is not the toothless we know. It’s an imposter
Here's another point. Grimmel is not a "corruption arc version" of Hiccup. It's what they tried to do, but they failed - and the reason is very simple.
Hiccup chose to save the Night Fury after struggling to bring himself to kill it. He was torn between his compassion for the creature and his longing for his village's approval.
Grimmel, apparently, killed his downed Night Fury without a moment's thought. And that's the problem.
In order to work as Hiccup's dark mirror, Grimmel needs to have faced that same binary choice and struggled with it. He needs to be shown to have compassion for dragons in the first place in order to reject it. If Grimmel's decision to kill the Night Fury was easy, then he is not similar to Hiccup at all. He is in fact the furthest thing removed from Hiccup imaginable. An actual dark mirror-villain for Hiccup would have been a Grimmel who stifled his compassion and killed that Night Fury, earning his community's respect at the cost of his true self. He has since hardened himself and is cruelly using dragons as his slaves, perfecting his technological prowess to disguise his physical frailty, and it has secretly made him bitter and paranoid. He's waging an endless battle against himself. Compassion for dragons is still in him somewhere, but he would never, ever let it out - because he is terrified that his community, to whose standards he's desperately trying to conform, would cast him out instantly.
A fitting end for a villain like that (rather than unceremoniously dropping him off a cliff) could be a situation where he has to relive that binary choice - save the dragon or save himself - but this time, he makes the right choice. He chooses to save the dragon and it gives him peace, but he dies as a result.
My biggest gripe with the movie is how Astrid handles the situation after Toothless was captured.
Like, Hiccup is having this whole self doubt moment and she's not only letting him, but also telling him he's right?? I get that she supports him later, but like wtf Astrid.
Hiccup says: "I shouldn't have dragged you out there, he wouldn't have flown me back, she wouldn't have followed."
First of all, Hiccup did not drag Astrid anywhere. If my memory serves (and it does) then it was ASTRID who told Hiccup to climb on, so if anything, that's on HER!
Second of all, Hiccup had no way of knowing bringing Toothless back would endanger him. First of all, they just dropped an entire tower on top of Grimmel. For all Hiccup knows, he could be dead! Secondly, they have an entire flock of dragons that could EASILY take out Grimmel's armada. Hiccup had NO WAY of knowing Toothless would just let them all get captured. That aside, he had no way of knowing Ruffnut was coming back and Grimmel was tracking her so, again, how is that his fault exactly?
Finally, how was he supposed to know the Light Fury would follow them back and how was he supposed to know this would be an issue? Hiccup was not aware that the Light Fury was placed there by Grimmel. He never found that out, did he? Plus she is skitish and stays away from humans. For all he knew, she might've stayed in the hidden world.
Either way, the entire thing is just an big line of coincidences that one human couldn't possibly forsee. Hiccup blames himself because, I don't know, that's how self doubt works. He blames himself for so many things in this movie even though 90% of the issues can be traced back to Toothless' idiotic character writing, yet instead of slapping some sense into Hiccup and telling him how wrong he is, ASTRID AGREES WITH HIM?!
Like even if Hiccup was some kind of super genius who knows everything about the world, there was too much going on for him to put together and prevent. I think it's really stupid that throughout the movie Hiccup constantly takes the blame for everything when most of the bad things happening are a strike of sheer bad luck (and Toothless being a horrible Alpha).
Also to add to that: For all Hiccup knew, Toothless could already be on his way back naturally dragging the Light Fury behind, which would've had the same outcome either way so...???
The biggest problem I had is how needlessly harsh the movie is towards Hiccup. The movie wants us to not only believe that Hiccup is in the wrong for wanting to go to the hidden world, but also think that Hiccup is somehow being selfish with Toothless what that's far from the case
Firstly the reason Hiccup wanted to go to the hidden world was so that Berk and its dragons could be safe, sure it was a risky move but it wasn't out of selfishness or wanting to prove something, he just thought it would be best for everyone
Secondly Hiccup was never once clingy or trying to force Toothless to stay with him, in fact he understood that his friend was lonely. Not only was he trying to help Toothless win the lightfury's affection, but he later on made the tail that allowed Toothless to fly on his own. If Hiccup really was being selfish like the movie wants us to think he wouldn't have tried to help Toothless, I mean for crying out loud he specifically said that he wanted Toothless to be happy when he was making the tail, sure he thought that the lightfury could be tamed, but when he saw Toothless genuinely happy with her in the Hidden World, you can tell that he realises that this might be what's best for him and the only reason that Toothless left was so he can bring him and Astrid to safety
Thirdly because the movie thinking that Hiccup is in the wrong when he isn't, when the characters call him out they come across as a bunch of dicks towards Hiccup, constantly making fun of him for his appearance and his choices (yeah the other films and shows did this occasionally but was never this frequent) even Astrid comes across as especially harsh towards Hiccup. I'm not saying that Astrid needs to agree with Hiccup, but she didn't need to be as harsh as she was with him (like the whole 'embracing change' moment made me want to face-palm)
To put it bluntly the movie felt like it wanted an excuse to bully Hiccup for a hour, so it came up with a dumb excuse to do so
Hiccup: "I wanna bring everyone to the Hidden World so we can all live in peace together!"
Everyone else in this movie: "Wtf, are you dumb??? Clearly that doesnt work, omg are you stupid, just give up and send all the dragons away, because that clearly is the only option you should have even CONSIDERED"
Hiccup is a human and toothless is a sentient animal. Animals can't possibly be selfish or wrong, they are perfect in every way, humans are bad no matter what they try to do and we need to bully them. Thats essentially what the movie said.
Snotlout being “this guy” hurts my soul 😭
He’s a good boy I promise, this movie did him so dirty!!
The tv and Netflix series have so much more of these incredible characters with focus episodes, dynamics, relationships and actual brains. This movie and what the movies do with Hiccup’s “friends” other than (and unfortunately sometimes including) Astrid is painful..
This film ruined snotlout for me. Starting from the older series (riders and defenders of berk) where he was unlikable at first until race to the edge where he slowly started to have a better character development. Until the third film, he became unlikable again, who was annoying and acting like a weirdo and simp toward hiccup's mother. Ew. As for the other characters, they became annoying as well, except for astrid. These are one of the other nitpicks I had with this movie.
It's funny because despite the message that the third movie wanted to shove down your throat on how it's better for both the humans and the dragons. The special that came after this How To Train Your Dragon: Homecoming ( because even though this studio stomped on the franchise it also refuses to let it die)... doesn't even support it's own dang message to show the benefits. The new generation completely forgot about dragons, Hiccups daughter finds the book that describe them as monsters ( why they haven't thrown that out is anyone's guess), and now fears them, and Valka just vanished off the face of the earth without a mention to even interact with her granddaughter that doesn't like dragons- and Toothless daughter is clearly bored with her life in the Hidden World. And the only reason the dragons and humans didn't reunite earlier is because Toothless is so henpecked by The Light fury that when she objects to the idea of visiting Hiccup, he just goes along with it. The series could have ended on a hopeful note with Hiccup and Toothless daughters becoming friends given we see the consequences of the separation involving those two and how they could have made for a better future that Hiccup and Toothless failed at but whatever.
And I know you mentioned that you haven't seen any of the spin off series, but trust me- all of the dragons going to the hidden world becomes even more non nonsensical because there are dragons that straight up can't even fly or swim.
Side note, I couldn't stretch my suspension of disbelief that Grimmel single handily killed ALL of the Night Furies even during my first watch. Even more so after you pointed out how many godlike abilities they gave Toothless as the movies went on, which you would assume that other Night furies could do as well AND the fact that he killed a beefy man like Stoick in one hit WITHOUT those power ups. Toothless easily could have turned Grimmel into dust.
Anyways, sorry for the rant. There is so much about the third movie that bugs me so much, and this was a very good video essay regarding the flaws of it.
The Light Fury has Toothless on an invisible leash. She orders him around and he goes along with it because he’s a simp. Some alpha you are, Toothless.
@@OneBrokenEgg Especially that one scene where they nuzzled each other, and whether on purpose or not, she basically rizzed him up with her tail and got he looked wayyy too happy for that to happen- I even saw people commenting "he's ready for more babies" like that's just his character now.. :(
@@OneBrokenEgg yeh that toothless is crap, the toothless from the the other 2 movies would never do that.
They really just crushed his character.
Toothless isn’t even toothless anymore.
Snotlout is my favorite character but I think it’s hilarious how you refer to him as “this guy” while calling everyone else their proper names
This video encapsulates everything I thought upon leaving the theatre after seeing the movie. I was crushed. It didn't make sense why they changed so much about the characters, especially Toothless, just to get to this ending. We weren't really given a reason to like the Light Fury or root for Toothless to be with her, either. I don't remember crying, but being confused. I honestly think HTTYD 2 should have been it, I adore that movie so much and it was very strong sequel building upon what happened in the first movie.
What enrages me more than the movie itself and than the disdain and retcon Dreamworks showed the franchise ?
How the general audience absolutely adores it to this day and calls it the perfect ending. Lots of praises, just when you look at react videos or fanwork and people defending the Light Fury. A wonder how they loved the first movies if they love equally the movie that shits on them
@@primevalyautja1305 no because I don't even like HTTYD 2 and think it should have been one movie, but HTTYD 2 at least doesn't retcon everything and respects the characters and story
@@primevalyautja1305 why are you even in this comment section, it's about not liking that movie
awesome essay! i loved this, the film always irked me bc it felt so unnecessary to make the dragons leave
Thankyou! And yeah absolutely :/
I heard somewhere that the writers wanted to do something more with Dragos' fleet, but they had to make a new character (Forced to). Doesn't excuse the bad story but I guess they knew what to do better with what they wanted to do
Oh wow that's unfortunate :/
I'm almost certain that many ppl behind this prolly had much better ideas- basically artists who actually wanted to write a good story
but ofc capitalists get their greasy hands on everything
1:00:08 "everything he's ever worked for, gone."
Precisely. If only that statement would be shown in a way to make Hiccup realize that being afraid of losing makes him only lose and lose more.
Toothless turned into somebody's Mary Sue sparkle dog OC
I'd even argue Toothless' more sleek design was shown by the fact he is meant to be an unseen fast force that strikes quickly. Where he was "unseen" and they could only identify a nightfury by the sound of the fireball charging up. Even in the first movie you can hear the wind up and that's when they call out Night fury" to each other. Plus the sound of him flying
Toothless in 1: Awesome
Toothless in 2: Awesome
Toothless in 3: "OH MY GOD, WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOUR FAAAAA..."
Toothless just isn’t toothless any more.
That’s the only way I can put it
@Good Man It's why I couldn't bring myself to care when he left. I kept expecting the real Toothless to jump out of a bush afterward asking, "Is he gone?"
@@jaffarebellion292 I cared when he left only because then I realised the real toothless was gone 😔
@@GoodMan-rf8mz Fair enough. If I weep for anything, it's the HTTYD 3 we could've gotten.
@@jaffarebellion292 same, wasted potential, and it’s so annoying to have a bad ending
About the point of the Lightfury design, Stormfly and Meatlug are female dragons and yet appear very dragonesque. Why did they do this with the Lightfury?
Most people talking about complaints, but before I mention mine, I have to say, this video's really well made considering your setup. The little black lizard avatar is just so derpy and cute, captures your expressions perfectly, and I really like it for that. This is a pretty great video, both well made and valid in all points.
But here's a complaint you should've mentioned: most people complain that the Light Fury doesn't get much screentime, but very few notice how the Hidden World, the thing the movie is named after, gets even less. If I remember correctly, it was on screen for five minutes AT MAXIMUM. What??? Isn't that the main part of the movie??? Why the movie is named after it??? Seriously, it should've been an actual main setting for the movie. Maybe a Hidden World of Night Furies or something.
Ayo, thankyou!! I'm glad you enjoyed my derpy lil lizard avatar as well hahaha
Also actually good point! I hadn't really thought about that :0
@@MyUniverseinaBox Yeah, it's really cute. And this movie's frustrating on many levels. I did meet a pretty toxic fan earlier, too, who said I know nothing about media for criticising exactly what this movie is trying to force us to believe. Can't believe some people fell for it. I don't criticise fans unless they call ME dumb for being logical. But anyway, great vid. You should make more reviews.
@@MyUniverseinaBoxYeah, I love their design so much.
It was so strange to leave the theater feeling kind of empty while seeing nothing but praise for it online. The ending of this movie shattered the entire point of 1 and 2. Despite their differences and despite how difficult it was, humans and dragons lived together. Nothing could separate them from each other. They fought off a huge dragon in the second movie and a much more dangerous villain, but the skinny dude who could barely control dragons is what got the Vikings to leave the dragons? What the hell?
What I dislike about the 3rd movie is how quickly it paced, there was no timing, no village scenes, not plotting.. just went right in
Thanks for this. I'm happy for the people who came out enjoying this film and finding it a satisfying conclusion, but I never could. Seriously, the relentless bullying of Hiccup and the undertones of romantic love being more important than platonic love left a really sour taste in my mouth after walking out of the theater.
Not to mention that whole idea that 'growing up' means giving up on old friends and dreams forever. I *hate* that message in stories. In a story--when a bond/dream is set up as being incredibly profound and important--having it cut away because it's suddenly "immature" is... really off-putting. Does saying goodbye and moving on happen in real life? Sure, absolutely. But I have yet to see that message handled well in recent memory, despite it being a pretty common theme lately.
Anyway if you want a story about the bond between an actual, grown man and his intelligent, special, black dragon that takes place in the real world and they *don't* get separated by the end because it'd make absolutely zero sense to do so, just read the Temeraire series.
Temeraire sounds sick, I might have to give it a read myself
@@AmirPrinceling I hope you do! The dragons of the Temeraire series are some of my favorite portrayals of "what if dragons existed in our world" I've encountered. Each culture the characters encounter handles the dragons differently, and the subject of a dragon's place in various societies and how they impact the culture is a huge deal in the books. ...Not to say everything is dragon social justice though. It's the Napoleonic wars with a draconic air force--there's lots of battle and travel and diplomacy too. But the dragons are on par with the range of human intelligence, so the question of their being viewed as actual people is always on the fringes.
Being vaguely spoilery here, but by the end there are steps being made to improve said place in the main (human) character's home country after seeing how the dragons are treated elsewhere in the world. Things don't end with everything magically better, nor do they up and leave just because humankind is mean (cough, cough), but improvement is happening and hope is on the horizon. Dragons are being represented in government, for example. Which without context is probably a funny image, but it was something that's been building up for a while. It's basically the other side of the coin to the HTTYD books--and certainly the opposite outcome of the third film.
...And that turned into more of a mini-essay than I thought, ha ha.
@pocketscarf You've intrigued me even more now, it sounds like a great mix of character-driven stories as well as world building and politics, definitely gonna check it out
This video is my found comfort. It seems like the whole world liked this film and I always felt like my opinion was wrong, but I finally found someone who shares my opinion. I can finally rest, thank you.
Very well done video, I especially appreciate your honesty about defending the LF with the aqua dragon reasoning, I honestly thought that when I saw the poster because I had that much faith in the series.
And GOD this film did the cast sooooo DIRTY, the shows did them all great, the twins are the street smartest people on Berk, Snotlout is a hard head with a heart of gold and great with baby dragons, Fishlegs is a walking encyclopedia who infodumps about dragons and a great thinker, Astrid is a defense and weapons specialist, and Hiccup is the strategist. The last movie the biggest spit in the face to fans I’ve ever seen and everyone I’ve seen calls it rain. This movie isn’t cannon to me, it contradicts previously established points in the MOVIES, (Ex:the cold and distance NF thing) and also disgraced the series moral of “Friendship and platonic love is powerful, and you should fight for what you believe in even if the world is against you” and it’s AGGRAVATING, to see it devolve to “procreation is the peak of existence drop everything and everyone else to fulfill this because this is the peak of life” which is SO wrong, misogynistic, homophobic, stupid, ableist, and all around horrible. What a terrible ending.
Sorry about the rant once again I love the video and I’m so thankful you made this. ❤
mAN YEAH EXACTLYYY
I haven't watched any of the shows but I get what you mean
Httyd3 is the biggest slap in the face to httyd fans it's just rghgh I don't consider it canon either HAHA
Also nah man you're good! And I'm so glad to hear you enjoyed the vid!
@@primevalyautja1305 If i took a shot for every time you said this same thing, I'd be in an early grave
And then when you try to point it out people tell you "But she's not a nightfury, she's a lightfury, of course she's different"
I'm not arguing that she is different. I'm arguing that they obviously tried as hard as they could to make her female. One step forther and we would've had a dragon with boobs. Nobody looks at Toothless and think "boy". You just think dragon. But when you look at the lightfury, you think "female, toothless girlfriend" and eventually, maybe, you'll think dragon
@@Hadeshy Also the colors too- they specifically made her "angelic" and glittery... And pink and white might be the most "female" identified colors to people's eyes
I didn't like how Toothless's design and personality became more and more cartoonish with each sequel.
That and how he went from facing the main threat through strategy to getting an unnecessary power-up for convenience.
And the light fury looks more like a giant baby. In any case I preferred to see another Night Fury.
Another mistake is that with each new antagonist the Vikings of Berk prefer to hide or abandon Berk, since from the first film it is mentioned that they are so stubborn that they efused to leave their home.
Furthermore, it does not make sense that at the end of HTTYD3 the Vikings abandoned their dragons, leaving themselves more vulnerable to future invasions when their tamed dragons already gave them an advantage over the others.
And that flock was just a minority. There was still an entire population of wild dragons living outside the hidden world, not counting the marine species.
Thanks I’m not the only one who didn’t like toothless getting powers out the no where
He didn’t need to be the king of dragons I didn’t feel like that fit him
I miss when it was just him and the rest of the gang dragons and I miss when he was just a fast mysterious dragon not the strongest but his team works helps him defeat stronger dragons
59:32 Something that gave me chills when it was teased long before the third movie’s release was a line from Hiccup that went something like “When I was a boy, there were dragons.” I was sad but intrigued to see what sort of monstrous threat caused such devastation and an epic but melancholy end to this story. The third film finally comes out and…it’s an over saturated and thirsty film where hiccup just…gives up? He’s gaslit into thinking it’s okay and even healthy for everything he worked for to just end?
I really didnt like how they just said the deathgrippers are evil. They were just drugged! Even in the TV Shows dfenders of berk and race to the edge it was Shows that dragons that are pretty aggressive like whispering deaths, speed stingers or typhomerangs sre not evil, just terretorial or just a bit more aggressiv than other species but NOT evil.
Yeah, the art book literally said “bad dragons” and like two pages later showed concepts for the thing with the venom on their heads
The School of Dragons showed us that the Death grippers are capable of gentleness if they are treated with kindness
Great essay, gave me some much-needed perspective on the films. I never was comfortable with how Tuffnut behaved with that "pep talk", having a mobility disability myself, and I'm glad someone else seems to have noticed as well. Lot of other great points too, like the light fury's design or reversal of character development
Thankyou!! I'm glad I could offer something new :0
Also yeah I was honestly quite surprised to see no other video criticising this movie mention the really blatant ableism :/
@MyUniverseinaBox everyone ignored it because apparently they test showed the scene to disabled people and they found the joke funny so people think it excuses it
@@echoless3474 Oh yikes... LMAO
I hear that kind of argument often with many topics and it's genuinely insane
"some ppl from the oppressed group think its okay to oppress them so now it is ok!!! see??? They agree!!!"
Yeah, I never heard anyone talk about it either. Kind of wish I was still unaware of it. Love when a movie tells me my disabilities makes me unnattractive...
@@MyUniverseinaBox yeah.. even if disabled people actually find it funny it's still a little distasteful for an able-bodied character to make such joke towards a disabled one isn't it? If it was made by another disabled character it would be less ugly.. still weird but eh
THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO!!! AAAAAHH!!! I have so many things i want to say that I'm having trouble composing a comment lmao. You had me fucking vibrating in my chair gripping the edge of the desk screaming at the screen that THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING FOR FUCKING YEARS!!! You touched on pretty much every single frustration I've ever had with that movie. Every time i thought to myself "hm i hope she addresses this other specific thing that just came to mind that makes me upset", within ten minutes you were talking about it. I'm going to start sending this video to people who ask why I'm not a fan of THW. I can't believe I'm only finding your channel now, a year later, from a random comment on twitter.
thank you, im so tired of people saying the second movie was the worst in the trilogy
Its the best for me
Personally, I liked the idea that Night Furies are like the Tomcats, F-35s or the owls of dragons. Nothing incredibly interesting about them when you get a good look at them, they look and act more like big cats. But the incredible thing about them is that they’re specialists. In the dark or the night sky, their blueish black, ink-patterned scales make them nearly invisible, and they’re fast, insanely fast, whether in the air or on foot, you’ll never see them coming until it’s far, *far* too late. But the scariest thing about them is that they’re smart, too smart. They’re cunning, conniving and ruthless. They can kill you in ways you’ll never expect.
Also, Toothless was literally a rizz god in the first film. Hiccup could never pull Astrid even while he’s showing her up in training, so Toothless did the pulling for him, he immediately took control of the situation, put Astrid’s attitude in check and then gave her a show no Viking has ever experienced.
My jaw genuinely hit the floor when I heard that one comment Tuffnut made about Hiccup's prosthetic leg. I didn't remember that at all and it shocked me, Tuffnut would never say those things! Least of all when you take into account how he was presented in Race to The Edge - he and Ruffnut got way better writing in that show than the last 2 movies alone! This movie really was an incredible train wreck, It actually hurts to listen to everyone's dialogue.
Exactly! I was thinking the entire time “how could they say all of this to Hiccup when they’ve been friends for years (because of the shows) they should know their friends boundaries and stuff” and it was just disappointing to see. They don’t even feel like the same characters at all. It’s more disappointing to me because Ive not finished watching Race to the Edge and was already not gonna watch the third movie, but this cements it. Also the older designs are pretty cool especially Tuffnut’s piercings but I can’t be bothered watching the third movie. (Also Snoutlout flirting with Hiccup’s mom??? Wtf?? Literally in the shoes if someone flirted with him back he’s just like ??? Why are you doing that?? Yes he can be confident now but WHY IS HIS ONLY PERSONALITY TRAIT NOW JUST ARROGANT.)
Nah he would have said that. Eh...no the movie isn`t that bad.
@@Cainen_ Well yeah they know boundaries...but he still would maybe say that.
Nah they seem like the same character.
Great video you brought up a lot of good points about what is wrong with the third movie and I agree with a lot of the things that you discuss in your video especially the problems with the mistreatment of Hiccup by his questionable redesign of his character but also the mistreatment he gets from the rest of the cast and by the writers. Also agree with the problems with the over femininity of the Light Fury design, and the complete buttery of Toothless character for this horn dog knockoff that we got. I appreciate the time you took to make this.
Thanks man! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you omg. This final movie always annoys me. Toothless was suddenly an asshole and just didn't care about hiccup???
AND THEN THEY LEFT???? Like Toothless just ditched them. It reminds me of a toxic partner convincing you your friends are toxic and keeping you to themselves- the light fury is like that.
I actually read the books as a child, and I remember being upset after watching the first movie since it was so different from the book series that I loved. I didn't like the HTTYD movies at first because of this, and eventually I had to learn to separate the two in my mind, which was difficult as a literal child. I was upset that they had changed Toothless' design, I was upset that the dragons couldn't speak, and overall I was upset about the huge overhaul in the story. The HTTYD movie series are now some of my favorite of all time, I still cry during Stoic's death. After seeing the third movie, I couldn't really articulate why it didn't feel right or why I didn't like it as much as the others. When I tried sharing this sentiment with other HTTYD fans, I was met with a lot of confusion because other people seemed to have really liked the third film. I really appreciate this video for putting into words why the third movie is bad.