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Well, I clicked on the Community Tab of your channel to do the poll, and....didn't see a poll there for Dragons. I saw tons (and tons) of Steven Universe stuff, but no dragons.
@Toon Ruins Very few people saw the enormous amount of flaws in the movie. Fewer still made an actual video, nevermind got warm responses. I commend you for this, since most of the fandom doesn't take criticism of the third film too kindly.
I like how The light fury just popped out of no where to ruin Toothless and Hiccup's friendship, like ditching your best friend who's almost like a brother to you for a girl whom you've met for at least a day is just messed up...
she didn't pop out of nowhere to ruin there friendship chances are she had never seen a human and dragon getting along and at the end of the day toothless is an animal
Pretty much and anyone who defends it, saying: "oH tOoThLeSs Is JuSt A mInDlEsS aNiMal!" or "YoU nEeD tO gRoW uP aNd bE cYnIcAl CuZ lIfE sUcKs YoU dUmBaSs" is an idiot
A single phrase that sums up the 3rd movie for me: "out of character". Thank you for this video. It sorta really broke my heart seeing the ending and knowing that it was just so wrong and inconsistent.
Yep. That and "contrived premise". We know for a fact from the TV series that Hiccup and Fishlegs know which habitats each dragon species is supposed to live on. We've seen them and the other Dragon Riders transport rescued dragons to the islands they belong on. Yet somehow, the movie starts with Berk being overpopulated with all the dragons that have been rescued. Also, the idea that the Dragon Riders have become too reliant on their dragons and are basically incompetent without them is complete nonsense. We've seen the Dragon Riders operate in the TV series. What makes them such a formidable force is that each individual is dangerous on their own, and together, they become a force to be reckoned with. It's a lesson that the Dragon Hunters learn the hard way.
@@praveenvijeyakumar741 I don't know if you know that but... race to the edge has been confirmed to be unrelated to the trilogy, it has its own continuity so isn't Canon to the movies.
@@ilyassebenana3824 Yes, I'm aware, that Race to the Edge is no longer part of the same continuity as the third film. I'm actually glad that there are two separate canons for the TV series and the movie sequels. Regardless, thanks for pointing out.
I remember crying in the cinema and was so frustrated that my family seemed to like the ending. The movie was beautiful, don't get me wrong but the ending just didn't make sense to me and I felt kind of... cheated
I watched it today because I just got traumatised from watching it for the first time , the light fury feels so much like giving up better ideas to please the kids in the cinema, the villain wasn't really nescessary I really felt like it missed the greatest strenght of the first movie wich was that the whole plot was not defeating the bad guy but there was much much deeper meaning behind it. There really is no saving the series thankfully we have all the other movies and tv series (except with new ones in recent times with awful ... everything idk why it happened it's a disgrace). The thing that bugged me the most is as you said the ''out of character'' part, first of all why they kept going to the bad guy getting hurt and running away all the time it felt frustraiting second of all the elephant in the room Toothless being horny out of his mind for some badly design female version of him and just leaving Hiccup and not coming back to him like he never was there, when I watched the first and second movie it just felt so right and so complete , in under two hours they really made a masterpiece in all aspects but the third movie just feels violating and disrespectful I honesty wish it was never made and we were still waiting for it to be done to this day so maybe they'll come up with better plot, such a waste to one of a kind series....
I remember asking myself "Wasnt the whole point of this series to prove that dragons and humans can stay together in harmony forever? No matter what?" Very disappointed with the fact that they just hid away.
@@clutchthecinnamonsergal8493 um yes it was. For the past 2 movies and tons of shows HTTYD had hiccup had always reinforced that humans and dragons can live in peace. Heck! In the TV shows almost all of the villains turned good thanks to hiccups compassion and showing them dragons are good
@@MegaBond101 Yes and no. I mean, the films were always supposed to be about dragons in the time they existed, before they disappeared in Hiccups' lifetime. They were always meant to go, they were keeping that from the books. Maybe it didn't work as well as some people would've liked, but it was always the intention.
@@jadedawes2556 "always the intention" and where was the foreshadowing of that? When has hiccup or anyone of the characters ever said "we need to get rid of the dragons soon" where was the hinting that the dragons might go into the hidden world at? Exactly. HECK even dean deblois confirmed in an interview that this was not how the third movie was going to be. Originally there was no grimmel but there was drago and he actually turns good and helps hiccup. The dragons don't even go into the hidden world. And even in the books there is forshadowing. However the shows and movies are nothing like the books. The only similarity is that the characters have the same names. In the books all the dragons were able to go into the hidden world(there wasn't even a world they literally went south and disappeared into the sea) because all of them could camouflage and had gills to breath underwater. Meanwhile the dragons from HTTYD like the speed stinger, cavern crasher and so many more that cannot leave their island for obvious reasons would die. Not to mention unlike the books, literally no dragon in the movies knows where the hidden world is. Heck hiccup and astrid had to use stormfly to find the hidden world and even then it was by accident so imagine how many other dragons around the world trying to find it would struggle. I do think hiccup leaving toothless could have been epic if it was done nicely and had previous planning in the other movies if they had "done this from the beginning" personally I don't buy this excuse since many directors and writers have used this excuse even though it's obvious they had no idea what they were doing *cough* Game of Thrones *cough* I would have appreciated it if the third movie the dragons leaving to the hidden world was a global event somehow and not just the dragons of Berk leaving because there are millions of dragons outside of Berk and which dragons leave? Only the dragons of Berk. Other nests of dragons have their own alphas and while toothless was able to take his group to the hidden world, like I said before every other alpha and normal dragon had no idea where it is. not to mention Berk is left defenseless since their dragons are gone and the warlords could send a scout, see they don't have dragons, and use their captured dragons to attack Berk easily. Somehow that didn't happen for some reason but anyways this is my rant and there are so many more issues it's still far from over but I will stop here
@@MegaBond101 It's not anyone getting rid of them at all. In the series, the dragons just mysteriously disappear and people don't know why, but they're just a myth now. I assume it's to link it to our world as we don't have dragons like that. I never said they did it well, I honestly haven't watched the last film, just that it was their intention from the start, so what some people interpreted wasn't what they intended for them to interpret, but that isn't the viewer's fault.
@@MegaBond101 Yeah, I see where you're coming from. Honestly, I don't like it because they started riding dragons and then dragons also disappeared within Hiccup's lifetime. At least in the books, they've been riding them for hundreds of years before that. It just seems so out of place and weird how fast-paced and rushed it all is...
Y’all. Can we just talk about something real quick. So You’re telling me, that in the actual ancestral home of Dragonkind, there wasn’t already an alpha? Like, not even an “in charge placeholder” type dragon? I mean, toothless quite literally waltzed in there, perched on a rock and every dragon there automatically established him as the alpha, without any prior knowledge of him at all. We’re talking about an absolutely unknown dragon here, alpha or no, and there’s just zero resistance, he didn’t even really introduce himself, and certainly didn’t prove himself worthy.
I know I am like 1 year late, but Toothless didn't have to prove himself again. He already did once in the second movie. "Every nest has it's queen, but this is the king of all dragons." - Valka. This is what she said about the Bewilderbeast, but Toothless defeated Drago's alpha and that made him the king and I'm assuming all of the dragons or at least most of them loyal to him. That's probably why he didn't have to introduce himself. It's just my opinion though.
@@annakarakoleva8533 that still doesn’t cover the fact that the hidden world is NOT part of Toothless’ nest. Berk and it’s dragons were his nest and the hidden world is full of dragons that simply had no way of knowing who he was or what he’d even done. Sure the bewilder beast was there- and maybe he had become their alpha and simply stepped down in toothless’ presence- but that’s not stated or shown at all. The Mary Sue armor in the third movie is not good storytelling. We shouldn’t have to sit back and guess as to why Toothless was selected king outside of “it’s toothless”. A small moment of the bewilderbeast literally stepping down and bowing and having all the dragons look upon toothless in confusion a moment before bowing would have done wonders. Point is- for all these unknowing dragons he’s never met- yes. He would absolutely have to prove himself.
@@annakarakoleva8533 toothless might've not needed to prove myself he did needed to prove himself because he was a new kingdom hidden world of dragons and saying that there's five other light fury's and only One night fury toothless would have needed to prove himself worthy to be an alpha it's kind of like a male lion when they go to take over one lions pride the other male lion tends challenge the one male lion to take over its pride to prove himself Worthy
I really don't get how Grimmel supposedly killed all night furies, he couldn't have killed all night furies on the entire planet in his lifetime. Also how they just didn't show other night furies is just dumb, how does the supposedly most intelligent species not hide away from Grimmel. They should've said that he killed as many as possible, but not all of them, as that just wouldn't be possible. I like the idea of a light fury but a female night fury would've been better imo.
@@tarena397 that’s my point, actually. we’ve only got grimmel’s take on the matter (and those other random vikings, but their takes are also grimmel’s), and he believes he killed almost every night fury. it’s kind of that whole unreliable narrator trope. you know, before the third movie came out there was a theory that the Night Furies were from a warmer climate, based on the fact that Toothless sometimes lights the ground he’s gonna lay on on fire, and no other dragon does that. my headcanon is that grimmel might have killed almost every night fury in that region of the globe (berk is kind of in the middle of the Norwegian Sea, right?), but there are others in the continents.
Honestly, Light Fury was a really bad idea. Not only wasn't she as intelligent and adorable as Toothless, she had no personality apart from distrustful/aloof and was more like the creators never saw a woman before and went "we'll make a dragon but white and pretty cuz it's a woman. Also aloof and needs to be chased cause woman". I wish she had at least personality... Or maybe a bit more characteristic, nice design!
The thing is, the whole "There were dragons when I was a boy..." was a strong theme in the books, with an odd Hiccup starting each book with similar openings, then it going into the stories of his childhood. A massive part of the plot and storytelling style of the books was the lead up to the explanation of why hiccup, the narrator, no long has toothless and his other dragon Windwalker with him. The movies has no such premise or theme and only people who read the books would connect with the ending in any way, but it's ridiculous because the movies and books are so vastly different that there's no reason to link them at all.
Well, yeah... In books he wasn't the one who tamed them. But in movies it is like... dragons were around 10 years or something? Also I didn't even remember that, so I couldn't connect. Maybe because drangons weren't such a big part of the books too, Hiccup spend with them less time he spend with other ppl, he has his own adventurers
i would correct something, toothless in the books remains with him, is the other dragons that went to another place. A place that isn't specified in the books
God, just by mentioning Spirit you opened my eyes to how great the love story between toothless and the lightfury _could_ have been, talk about wasted potential.
Yeah! Super late here but- Idk how to explain it, but the Lightfury just didn’t have a “voice” to me?? Like Toothless very much did, but I just didn’t feel hers at all.
I hate how Hiccup’s selfless love for Toothless is treated as clingy in the third movie. Their relationship wasn't portrayed in this way in the previous movies. Deblois lost his mind. Since when was Toothless a captive? What "freedom"? Toothless is Hiccup's equal and he CHOSE to be with him, because he loves him =_= Their beautiful relationship is not toxic. All because plot, they must be separated forever and other nonsense =_=
True. They are stronger together, yet the third movie basically says "well no, your dependency is bad, you should give it up", like the heck? I also thought that overpopulation was the core problem of the third movie? I dont get it
@@dragozillasaur813 If this is the only argument you can bring up to make your point clear than you have already lost this discussion and debatte by default, sorry.
Ya'll are gonna tell me not one dragon stood up and was like, "I'm not leaving. I'll fight Toothless it I have to." Not one of those many dragons bonded so much with their rider that they refused to step foot off the island? UNREALISTIC!!!
@@DoiInthanon1897 toothless is the alpha, so he can liettraly make those dragons leave their riders even against their will, kinda dark to think about...
They really expect me to believe the crazy dragon lady’s dragons left her to go live in the wild. Those dragons looooved living with her. They get endless treats, pets, affection, going back to the wild was like leaving a mansion for a townhouse.
I’ve always felt that hiccup and toothless’ bond was a lot like that of a disabled person and their service animal. Honestly as a disabled person who had a service dog going in to see the hidden world it felt super rough to see this idea of the natural order keeping them apart felt like a punch in the gut. I also felt it was super inconsistent.
Something I also don‘t like, is that Fishlegs and Heathers relationship completly dissapears in Httyd 2. As like it never happend. I‘ve had ship them. (Sorry for my bad englisch. I am not from an country where englisch is the main language.)
Canonically, speaking form the themes of the series, I don't understand why Toothless would love the Light Fury. Toothless was always shown to have almost human-like intelligence, being a deep and empathetic being. The Light Fury was just something that looked like him that he found pretty. If he had gotten to know her and seen a depth within her that reflected his own, I'd understand; but instead, he falls for her instantly at first sight and desperately does everything dragonly possible to get with her. Even with Astrid and Hiccup, as cliche as their relationship was (being that the male and female lead fall in love because they're a male and female lead), they bonded through their love of dragons and solving problems for their people. To me, the Light fury was just a shallow instinct driven homewrecker. She did save Hiccup's life in the end, but that was it, and he had saved her first as well as being a close friend of Toothless. Even if the writers say she shares the deep sense of empathy that Toothless has, we should get to see that for ourselves instead of 'Dude trust me'. At the very least, the love theme should have been one of "You're like me on the inside, not the outside, and that's why I can love you." Looking Cloudjumper, he and Valka bonded and we got a sense of depth within him after he gently interacted with baby Hiccup and showed a harmless curious nature to Valka, seemingly understanding that she was his mother and had no intention to harm him. Yes she had a weapon, but he was by her offspring and she halted as he stepped away and focused on her instead. The Light Fury immediately ran away from or attacked any human that came near her. Yes she was wild and had been captured by humans, but she didn't give off a deep or gentle vibe unless around Toothless. Her fear and disdain for humans seemed simply from a wild animal rather than an abused animal. She jumped to conclusions when she threw Hiccup from Toothless' back instead of observing to see if he was in danger after having seemingly been following the hundreds of dragons being peacefully ridden for a while, which is arguably justifiable in the sense that she was looking out for him, but Toothless kissed the ground she walked on so much that he just smiled at her and shrugged it off. His best friend that nursed him back to health, that he risked his life for multiple times, that he took an alpha position to protect, was nearly killed by a dragon he just met, and. he. just. smiled! What's his motivation for Hiccup? Best friend who spared his life, let him fly again, and freed him from his enslavement. What's his motivation for the Light fury who had just almost killed this best friend? She's pretty and the very first Fury he's seen as an adult. Every other dragon that's ever threatened Hiccup, Toothless has dealt with, no matter what the odds against him were. This thing could instantly crush an opponent of his size with one step or has an army of hundreds at its disposal? No problem. This thing is pretty? BIG problem.
The best analysis of the issue at hand. I have not watched it yet... but I will likely not like it if I do as I find the idea of the dragons having to hide away because of a few bad eggs, as we always will have in the world, wanted to hunt the dragons. Not like Berk couldn’t keep on training to fight against such problems. And besides as said by the video after relying on the dragons for 1-2 decades I am sure their skills in other areas have started to fade due to what they had in spades with the dragons. As Berk seemed to be a place of muscle to start, then it was a place of working with dragons. So the muscle just changed hands even if it is depicted as the Vikings still being strong. So it would be hard for Berk to survive without the dragons, with the dragons being around for so long, and the older generation that was the guides, likely passed away so that knowledge was no longer around. Not that Berk couldn’t adapt again it just seems like a hollow ending from what I have heard.
@@cursedimageseveryday5559 That's the problem. Toothless adored the Lightfury because she's pretty. Hiccup spared his life, restored his ability to fly, liberated him and all the dragons from the Red Death, and became his best friend over time. The whole series was about seeing the 'humanity' and intelligence in dragons, and defying social normality for friendship and togetherness. After everything, after growing up with Hiccup (in the second movie, Valka noted that Toothless was at a similar maturity to Hiccup at the time, meaning that he likely was or was very similar to Hiccup's mental age all along) and being his best friend for over a decade, he practically worships another dragon and is completely willing to leave Hiccup forever; and why? Because... she's pretty. He knew her for the accumulative time of a couple hours before he was ready to ditch his best friend with hardly a goodbye because he found a pretty girl (as stated in the video, he came back to Hiccup because he was caught in the hidden world and had to be rescued, which then led up to the attack by Grimmel). It would have been different if the Lightfury showed compassion and humanity and he realised that she's like him mentally, but no, she was like him physically, and that's why he was ready to completely leave his entire old life behind. What also gets me is another point in the video that not _one single_ dragon stayed behind with their trainer. Not a single one. This shows that they were all willing to give up their close friendships to essentially live wild again because, as the movie justified, there were bad humans in the world. What the heck?! That's like a person leaving their best friend because murderers exist in the world. The whole series was about working TOGETHER against bad people, uniting good people and dragons, and saving dragons from bad people TOGETHER. The whole movie was like a bad fanfic and defied nearly every theme in the series. You might know about the 'Dragons: Race to the Edge', and if you've seen it, you might recall an episode called 'Total Nightmare'. In that episode, it was believed that Hookfang heard a female Monstrous Nightmare's mating call and was willing to abandon everyone to go live with her. Everyone feared their dragon would run away too, but they never did. It was later revealed that the female's call was one of distress and Hookfang merely wanted to help her defend her eggs from a rival male who wanted to destroy them. Hookfang was still very much bonded with Snotlout, and showed sadness when he saw that Snoutlout thought he was being abandoned. In the end, Snotlout and Hookfang defeated the rival together to save the eggs, and Hookfang returned to everyone. The entire message of that episode was further affirming that friendship is stronger than natural instinct to live in the wild, and dragons aren't just some animals that run off to a potential mate to leave everything at a moment's notice. The third movie spit in the face of that episode and everything the Dragons series was built upon. We're also led to believe that, as the movie stated, 'The world believes the dragons are gone if they ever existed in the first place'. What? Every single dragon on Earth (not just Berk) saw Toothless as their alpha, and just left their homes/potential trainers to live in the hidden world? It was shown that people even far away from Berk lived peacefully with dragons, and people trained them off of Berk after seeing what the Berkians did. (I haven't seen all the episodes, but if it wasn't shown, is it really a farcry to say that other people trained dragons too?) So, this movie is telling us that those dragons just left their trainers FOREVER without context or warning because Toothless (the catalyst of this prace among humans and dragons) said so? In the end, friendships ment nothing. Every dragon left their trainers, homes, their old lives because there are wicked people in the world. This movie works good as a stand alone movie, but being the closing of an entire IP spanning over several movies and episode series? No way. The ending was horrible, and only served to say that friendship means nothing, your friendships come last when you find a potential Significant Other. The only good aspects about the movie was the music, animation, and Grimmel plot. And might I add another tidbit, why the heck was Snoutlout constantly flirting with Valka? She's old enough to be his own mother! Why did Fishlegs and the girl twin (I forget who's who) get together? She showed slight interest in the second movie, but she hit on any guy her age. In the 'Race to the edge' series, she and Fishlegs thought they accidentally married and Fishlegs was very relieved that it wasn't so. We're expected to believe that they got together because he's a guy and she's a girl? Really?
@Trvrr Zbsky See I would've been fine with Toothless leaving everything for her because he finally found someone like him, but the rest of the light fury species were completely ignored?? He stuck with the first dragon he saw and we didn't get to see him bond and feel at home with the other Furies and so it made it feel cheap.
There’s a lot of issues with httyd 3, one of them being the concept of the hidden world. What about dragons that can’t fly? Would they like ride with other dragons or just fall into the hole and die? Also, it’s impossible that all dragons would get along. They would kill each other, eat each others eggs and it would just be a massive battle royale. There’s so many different dragons too! Would there be a snowy part of the hidden world for snow wraiths, a water part for sea dragons, a sandy part for sandbusters, a volcano for eruptodons and a vanaheim copy for the senitels? And buffalords who doesn’t want to leave their place, what about them? Dreamworks really didn’t think this through.
@Everyone is WRONG I know right?? There is no way in hell the entirety of dragons just disappeared in this watery shit hole. It also bothers me a lot that they claim it's the safest spot in the world, yet the light fury was captured by Grimmel before, even thou she lived there - meaning the dragons go up to the surface once in a while; which is also further proven by Toothless and his family chillin in some shore on the ending of the third movie. They absolutely did not bother to explain the hidden world to the audience, they could not even give a reason why the vikins SHOULDNT be able to move in there; this is just some poor writing
What's even more dumb is that they make it sound like EVERY single entire dragon in the world went to the Hidden World. The setting is set in Scandinavia which is just one part of the whole world. I guess all the Scandinavian dragons went to the Hidden World but what about dragons that are not even living in the Scandinavian region. Let's go back to 2nd film and point out Drago: Stoick called him a stranger from a strange land, even though they never flat out say where Drago is from we can easily tell he's from a more Southern, warmer and exotic land nowhere near the cold Scandinavian region because of his tanned skin, dreadlocks and accent. Also the art book said the sun emblem on his belt is meant to show he's from a warmer climate. Remember what Drago said? He said his village was burned and massacred by dragons when he was just a child. If Drago's village is in a completely different region nowhere near the one this series is set in then it's pretty obvious that there are dragons living in other areas of the world. Also it sounds like those dragons were flat out merciless. Hell we don't even know what sort of dragons they were. They could be some species we haven't seen yet that are not native to cold regions and actually have a taste for human flesh or are just flat out evil. Are we just gonna ignore that there are probably still loads of dragons living outside the Scandinavian region and some of them are probably still untamed going around massacring villages and making people go through the same trauma Drago went through and flat out started his dark path and sooner or later it's gonna happen to someone else and history repeats itself?
@@robonaught I agree except for the "those southern dragons may be evil" part. If you look at the start of the 1st httyd movie it kind of looks like what Drago described: Dragons burning down the village, looting food, being responsible for torn of limbs of the people there and yes, also killing hundreds of them, even if not shown in the movie. I don't think that there are evil dragons, this was also said by Valka in the 2nd movie btw. Maybe it's another dragon queen that made them do this, maybe the human dragon relationships became more and more hostile as each partie was trying to survive. But you're right about the rest, the hidden world was just a lazy solution so that they could make this a "look kids, imagine if this movie was reality and dragons really still exists, they're just all hidden away"-moment
@@robonaught And even if all dragons from Scandinavia went into Hidden World dragons from surrounding areas would slowly migrate into since there is no competition
My biggest personal problem with httyd3- and _trust_ me, I have a _lot_ of problems with this film- but my biggest problem is that they erased Toothless’s disability when it became inconvenient for the plot. His tail would need maintenance, for gods sake. Making it automatic? Making it black and spotted with scales? They just… genuinely, straight up, _erased_ it.
Another issue I take with the tail is that according to Dean when they reunite at the end of HTTYD3 Toothless has forgotten his old life because it's been 10 years. But any time he were to look at or see his tail he should notice the attachment strapped to it and remember Hiccup. You can still see it.
that and they also completely seemed to forget that valka had a bunch of disabled dragons that couldnt survive without humans. the writing was horrible in this film. they ignored so much of their own lore
@@justarandomchick767I think one of the worst examples of that is when they tried to get us to believe that "night furies can't survive in the cold" when we've been watching a night fury thrive in a blisteringly cold environment since 2010. I mean he tanked a Bewilderbeast ice blast for god's sake. Just so many weird and convoluted inconsistencies.
I have a lot of issues with the film too, but yeah one of the things I hated the most (besides revealing the biggest anticlimactic conclusion to whether or not Toothless was the last of his species and why) was that they A) destroyed the messages the first films had (think of Hiccup’s outro narration from the second film; “We may be small in numbers, but we stand for something bigger than anyone in the world can put against us. We are the voice of peace, and bit by bit, we will change this world. They may have armies and armadas, but we have our dragons!” To the conclusion of the third movie; “I was wrong, humans and dragons can never live in peace because there will always be bad people who are gonna want to kill dragons so it’s best that none of us live together in harmony. Just leave, you’ll be safer that way”), along with Hiccup and Toothless being perfectly capable of doing stuff and being badass despite both being disabled, and B) that they ruined Toothless’ character completely and named “domestication” (I’m sorry but he’s Hiccup’s FRIEND, not his dog) and “instincts” (to breed, apparently) as excuses to turn him into a creepy, slobbering dog- version of himself. The Light Fury was a boring plot device with an even more boring design, but at least she was sleek, cunning and cat- like; like Toothless used to be.
The fact that they just got rid of all dragons seemed really unnecessary to me, especially since it seemed like such a good ending when the lightfury finally started trusting hiccup. For me hiccup kind of got across like: It's better for my dragon if I let him go, so instead of just me losing mine, how about they all leave? It also ruined things for me a bit when toothless and all other dragons just left so easily! After all that they've been through are you telling me than NONE of the dragons bonded so strongly with their human that they wouldn't want to leave? NONE of them? So much for that unbreakable bond and loyalty from the first 2 movies...
I know I am 1 year late, but Hiccup was saying his goodbye to Toothless and the rest of the vikings decided to do the same, he never told all of the dragons to leave, he was letting only Toothless go. And no one said that it wasn't hard for the dragons to leave their humans or that they didn't want to stay, but they were going to be safer. Plus Toothless is their king so they are loyal to him and respect him. And before someone says that they could've fought to stay together, they did. But there was always going to be someone trying to destroy what they have accomplished - the progress they have made between dragons and humans. And they do have an unbreakable bond. Take for example Toothless and Hiccup - at the end of the last movie they meet each other again after years, yet they still have so much love for each other. Also, I agree that it would've been a good ending if the Lightfury had stayed there and the dragons wouldn't have left, but I feel like this ending is better, because it sends a message that people need to change and become better to deserve something so incredible. This is just my opinion though.
@@annakarakoleva8533 he also said that humans weren’t deserving of dragons yet (selfish) and like by trying to present them as extinct/ nonexistent doesn’t make sense since that would destroy how so many people already had trust and love for them so then after discovery would have to restart from uncertainty, not to mention the lack of clarity about some other islands. Plus they showed Toothless’ family visiting Berk as a movie after this meant to be before they sailed to visit Toothless but then he should be more confident it was hiccup before he sniffed him. I think there was a point on how some/ few parts Toothless seemed less of an intelligent being with bit little build up of love but that isn’t the strong issue to me.
@@annakarakoleva8533 the issue there is they don't do enough to prove that humans are not deserving of dragons. Throughout his adventures Hiccup found a lot more people who were willing to ally with dragons than otherwise, and yet Grimmel was for no apparent reason the last straw that made Hiccup give up after a mere six years? No means for humanity to become "deserving" is provided either, given most of humanity ends up belieivng dragons were never real. Heck, in a mere decade or so even the children in Berk don't think much of dragons until they actually get to see them in person.
If you read the books you will understand a bit better the movie's ending. The two stories are nothing alike, however, back before the third movie was even underway, it was stated they'd end the series like the books. I highly recommend the books. They are beautifully written, the characters are solid and they are very funny yet deeper than even the movies. Especially hiccup and toothless' bond. :) That said, I love the movies as their own story.
I feel it was missing the friendship between the gang. It felt like they weren’t as close as they were in race to the edge, defenders of Berk, and the other two movies. Don’t get me wrong!! I love the whole10 years of httyd but It is missing the amazing bond between characters that has got them so far in their life.
I do agree with you and with what the video talked about. I had thought of a similar ending to what was described but adding how close the gang is and keeping the villain in. Only add a reason to his behavior like they were building a relationship with dragons but Night Furies came in and freed the dragons believing that they were captured. They end up killing some people including someone important to the villain and begins his vendetta against Night Furies but hunts them down without dragons at his side. This would make him a creative thinker and manipulater to find ways to kill Night Furies which wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility due to Hiccup injuring Toothless in the first movie.
I feel the biggest problem with this movie (and I can't believe I'm saying this) was Toothless, ...and the ending. He seemed so out of character, wanting to leave Hiccup forever for some dragoness he doesn't even know that much. And Hiccup letting Toothless go like he was a pet, something to grow out of, is BS. Toothless was more than that, he was his best friend, but Toothless is like, "Ok, that's fine, I got me some tail now!" Bros before hoes, Toothless!
Both Hiccup and Toothless acted out character. Valka acted out of character. Cloud Jumper... All of them acted out of character! It was maddening to watch unfold.
@@Shaddiewolf As a writer...it was like someone grinding rusted metal against a chalk board whilst singing Despicito, Let It Go, and multiple of those other annoying songs to try and drive me insane. Ever time i see a clip from it, I get flashbacks and uncontrollable just barely flinch sometimes. It's hard to ignore the problems as a normal person, but then when your a writer and you can see all the story elements that don't work...it's a fucking shame and it feels like tortue Haven't watched THW since February 22nd (I even went and saw it early on Feb 2nd cause I was that much of a fan of HTTYD) and I don't want to until five years have passed. It hasn't even been one and I hate 3 with a passion for the blemish it is on a otherwise amazing fantastic franchise.
@Saffra Kottke because he was grown and wanted to fall in love and move on. I hope you understand Toothless and Hiccup are the same age. Hiccup can fall in love and get married but Toothless can't?
What raised my eyebrows so much was that they introduced the nightfury as a dragon that *NO ONE* has ever faced and lived that they don't even know what it looks like. Then the third movie took a shit on this and introduced a "night fury killer". If someone already hunted night furies to near extinction then what the fuck was the "size unknown, speed unknown" for?
He’s a the thing is how did he know he killed every night fury? Even today with so much technology species of animals we thought were extinct for so long are discovered.
I don't think the intention is to believe he really killed them all but instead killed so many that they became very rare to find, at least around where he was@@danihi1
At the end of HTTYD 2, Hiccup says this: *"We are the voice of peace. And bit by bit, we will change this world."* If you are the voice of peace and bit by bit, will change this world, then why did you send your dragon friends away to The Hidden World? That isn't changing the world; that's admitting that it can't be changed. You're sending the dragons away because you think humans won't be worthy of them and won't change to be. Why not strive to maintain peace and keep the dragons, just keeping Toothless along with the Light Fury? Or, since you have the friendship of Toothless, an alpha, why don't you give moving to the Hidden World a shot? They can't be unwelcoming to humans there, as Toothless would convince them to let you stay.
Yea exactly. Basically, by sending the dragons away he admit defeat and the villains basically won with that. I cant believe how the majority of the people are totally ok with this ending and think its plausible?
@@anfani6839 Alright you..! People Are not Dumb or Wrong For Defending HTTYD 3 and the Light fury. You're just salty about her because you're a HTTYD 2 Purist.
@@primevalyautja1305 I never said they were dumb thou? I only said I dont understand why people are ok with terrible writing. The Light Fury is also a terribly written character, which is sad, cause all the other dragons are fun to watch and especially in the netflix series they had personality and fun traits. The Light Fury however only exists to serve as a love interest and you cannot call this good character writing, no matter how much you like her in the end
Honestly, the thing I hated most about HTTYD3 was the fact that Toothless can now fly without Hiccup. The idea that both Hiccup and Toothless were permanently scarred and needed each other (Hiccup's foot and Toothless's tail) is completely lost for no good reason. There was even a special about this exact concept (Hiccup fixing Toothless's tail so he could fly on his own) and Toothless decided HE DIDN'T WANT IT! He wanted to keep flying with Hiccup!
"the hidden world is only reachable by flight" Okay, now this made me think. The httyd TV shows are considered Canon, and featured a bunch of flightless dragons. How do those guys get there, if at all? Or are they just doomed? Something that annoyed me about the movie is the reunion scene at the end. It just seems so unrealistic, how big are the odds that toothless and stormfly show up ad the edge of the hidden world at that exact moment and not any other random pair of dragons? They clearly didn't recognize hiccup and Astrid (Dean deblois even stated that toothless forgot about hiccup), which makes it even more unrealistic to me.
Also don't forget Bewilderbeasts as they cannot fly either. If you actually watch when they're inside the Hidden World you can flat out see Drago's Bewilderbeast amongst the dragons that acknowledge Toothless as king. Did it swim to the hole, climb onto the rocks surrounding it and just jumped down that big drop? How the hell did it survive or not break a leg or anything?
@@kingofmonsters2063 he's an animal, still. Animals are not the brightest. If you put a collar on a dog and then set the dog free for years, it would eventually forget you too, or it would at least take some time for it to recognize you again.
@@sabis6111 yeah that works for a dog but not toothless he is shown to act like a dog i will say that but in many many cases he is extremely intelligent far beyond that of a dog he's up there with at the very least 12 year old and his class of dragon is considered extremely intelligent so him just forgetting hiccup just does not seem likley especially if he were to look at his tail becuse of the prosthetic it would remind him of hiccup
I think they were a little too fixed into integrating "There were dragons when I was a boy..." from the first line of the books. Pigeonholing the plot. After all the things they changed in the ADAPTATION, honestly a little confusing why thwy stuck so hard to this one line. Like, cool in theory to end it how it began, but like, if it tramples the themes of the story in the process, its better left on the cutting room floor.
Yeah. The first book opened with that line. The first movie didn't open with that (which I'm glad it didnt, because well, the opening was very good, and set up the adaptation well.) The books explore the relationship between humankind and dragonkind, the difficult process of growing up, and the loss of places and people from childhood. The line and the whole prologue makes sense with Hiccup's struggle and the bittersweetness of the story- humans can't work with dragons yet, but humans improved their relationship with the dragons, and things can change in the future. The movies... well, didn't have that framing device. Dragons couldn't talk, and the problem wasnt the corrupt society- it was lack of food, lack of space, and misunderstanding the dragons, solved through planning, tactics, and friendship. It was a story about stubbornness, dealing with change, and moving forward. "There were dragons when I was a boy", while pretty and poignant for movie Hiccup to say, was a bookend in the books, something said after years of reflection by an old man. Movie Hiccup wasn't even allowed to be shown as an old man, even at the ending. It doesn't fit the opening or closing for the other two movies either...
Exactly! They changed so many things from the books that the theme of the movies became different from the series. And I seriously love the series. I still believe the best ending for the series, if they REALLY wanted to keep the "staying apart" thing, was just to set the general Fury (regardless of species) as a highly territorial and protective species, making them "protectors" of the Hidden World and mirroring that with the humans. The dragons would still mostly live underground, but would be allowed to go wherever they wanted. A soft goodbye instead of a permanent one, I suppose. Like your best friend moving to a different city.
Thing is it was originally entirely feasible that the movies were telling the story of the first hiccup, who was referred to only as a historical figure in the books. Now with the hidden world they prevent even that story being possible, totally destroying any link between the books and movies.
I don't like the fact that they chose to return to the books having strayed so far. They did themselves a favour by taking as little as possible, so to then end it as the books did had the opposite effect.
The reason Spirit works and HTTYD3 doesn't is because Spirit's main goal was ALWAYS to be free. Toothless loved Hiccup and never should have left. It was uncharacteristic and completely uncalled for.
Actually when I compare Spirit to HTTYD3, I think of the two but with roles reversed. In HTTYD3, we focus on Toothless (the domesticated / tamed individual ) falling in love with a wild animal (The Light Fury ) which is the same case with Spirit, except the roles are reversed. The wild animal is our protagonist, and the tamed one is the love interest. Both have the same ending: the tamed individual goes free to live with its love in the wild. To me it works a lot more in Spirit because of the way its portrayed throughout the entire movie. We see Rain and Little Creek's relationship throughout the film. Even when she falls in love with Spirit, she's still loyal to her human companion. They have a camaraderie that we see even just by helping Spirit appreciate the people of her village: they work together to tame him. It's even shown that while Spirit has an interest in Rain from the start, Rain doesn't actually fall in love with Spirit until he's learned to respect her way of life and Little Creek first. We see Rain fly to her village and her human when its in danger, even when Spirit tries to persuade her from going towards it. She's very hesitant towards the idea of leaving her home, because of its closeness to her heart and the friends she's made. She isn't 100% with the idea of going free until Little Creek encourages her to and sets her free himself. That being said, yeah I'm totally in agreement with you. We barely see any hesitation from Toothless at all when he falls for the Light Fury, and he's willing to ditch his companion, his home, and his entire flock for her at the drop of a hat, or at least the movie frames it that way. We really only see Toothless truly hesitate for a moment when he's about to fly off on his own for the first time, and never again. Even after they defeat Grimmel, its Toothless (by looking off into the clouds) who wants to return to the Hidden World. You'd think that after two films, they'd progress the growing apart of their relationship and still make it amiable, but no, the entire third film is rushed. tldr; Rain was a better Toothless than Toothless, in the roles they had.
And I suppose I should also add onto this, but even Spirit played the Light Fury's role a lot better. Like her he was wild and untamed, and had justified reasons for being distrusting toward humans (captured from his own herd, ridden against his will in an attempt to be broken.) But unlike the Light Fury, whom Toothless and subsequently Hiccup cater to without setting any boundaries, Spirit is quickly put in his place for any unruly behavior towards Little Creek by Rain. Before he can win her affections, he must come to understand and respect their way of life as well. And for a while, he even seems content with the idea of staying in the village if it means being with Rain, but he doesn't forget where he comes from and where his family is. Spirit ultimately feels torn between staying with Rain or returning home, even after Little Creek lets him go just before the village is attacked. He wants to return to his family, to his mother. At the same time, he doesn't want to be apart from Rain, but he respects that she doesn't want to abandon her own home. I guess what also makes the dynamic between Toothless, Hiccup and the Light Fury is that Toothless sets absolutely no boundaries between what the Light Fury can and can't do to Hiccup. It's okay if she doesn't trust a human immediately, but unlike Rain, Toothless fails to lay down the line when it comes to hurting him, which does feel quite out of character for him, considering that he didn't seem keen on strangers hurting Hiccup in previous entries.
Yeah they could at least develop their bond more, you know, if they bond for life then it should be shown *why* they bonded. I simply hate that Toothless fell for the light fury because she's supposed to be pretty.
Personally, after watching the movie when i did, the big thing that bugged me really is the villain. He definitely is a baseless rip off of the 2nd movie's antagonist, but he was way less interesting than Drago. With Drago, the producers were able to link Drago to Stoic and make him a villain with essence. Something we can believe that he truly is a villain deserving of the role. The 3rd movie's antagonist is introduced out of nowhere and doesn't really do anything that makes him feel dangerous. Just cause he comes out of the dark with some moody lighting doesn't make him a good villain. He is one of the biggest waste of potential in this movie.
Agreed. Imo a villain that is allies with other, newer seen before dragons and an army of Warriors that all hate Berk for some reason I do not want ro come up with would maybe have been cool.
Keeping Drago in would have also freed up so much time for development too, we already know who he is and his motivations but still had a little bit of mystery to him. We don't need to waste time setting him up, just dive straight into his reintroduction and it's already good.
drago wasn’t a good villain. he had potential, but it was wasted. grimmel was way, way more intimidating. he outsmarted hiccup and the others constantly. he was very one-dimensional, yes, but it honestly worked for me.
I still can't grasp how Drago took control of all those Dragons. At least he made for a good antagonist. Over powered but captivating. Unlike Gimmes or whatever his name was. I get he was supposed to be the brainy villain compared to the last two brawn villains, but he was just incredibly underwhelming.
Drago was the best villain for me. He's the alternative version that Hiccup could have become, had he killed toothless in the first movie. They're both really clever, tech savvy and know they're way around with dragons. So in that regard I think Grimmel was the most complex & challanging Antagonist
In my opinion, all Hiccup has done by giving up completely was dooming the Dragons should they decide to return. You can't understand and learn to co-exist with something that faded into myth damn it! By having the dragons fade to myth, he insured that when they return, human kind might wipe them out completely.
Thank you! It's like saying: "Well, I am not very good at solving math problems, so now I will take my math textbook, put it in the farthest, most hidden part of my drawer and lock it away until I'm good at math and then I will look at my math textbook again. Everyone would rightfully laugh at this naive and ridiculous "solution" to me sucking at math. If you're not good at it, you need to keep doing it until you are. If humans aren't very good at coexisting with dragons, they need to keep working on that until they are, not get rid of them and forget them
There are many problems with that First human exploration might have discover Hidden World Second humans for sure would find fossils of big reptiles with fings that date back like 1000 years ago Third humans won't think "let's be friends" when dragons decide to come back, they will say "Let's use jets to defend ourself" going basically to square one but on genocide level
What makes it worse is that the myths remembered about dragons would probably be all of the "this dragon can eat your leg in a single bite" "that dragon can hunt you from miles away" etc. etc. Basically everything Gobber said in the first movie lmao
Problem is Option a) Remember and keep info- Curioud people will keep on looking for them Option b) Myth: Curious people may keep on looking for them, but it will be a few that most of the time dont have the resources to do serious harm. But you are right Option a) would be better if they decide to return ://.
@Ryan de Winter They have to establish a place where dragons and humans can live together peacefully, or else the dragons leave or something. So basically the exact opposite of the movie.
Same. I think when I have the time I will rewrite the 3rd movie with fanart and maybe even some storyboard animation if I'm feeling fancy, and then I'll pretend that it's how the movie actually ended, just so that I can have some piece of mind. The last movie was supposed to make us able to peacefully say goodbye to the franchise but for me it did the opposite, I'm violently rejecting it and I keep brooding over how badly it was ended.
canon ending: the berkians become a travelling people and over many generations they slowly but surely spread across the world and teach people how to train their dragons
Httyd 3 feels more empty when you watch the series with it. In the series, they fight lots of people who want to enslave dragons but they keep fighting for them through and through no matter what. The series also shows every dragon rider’s relationship with their dragons and how much they love them that it is incredibly hard to believe that they would let go of them so easily in the end of httyd 3.
Exactly! And although Toothless was dependent on Hiccup until the 3rd movie, all the other dragons stayed with their riders by pure choice. They saw that this relationship was beneficial to both parties and that is why they stayed. And this beneficial relationship bloomed into beautiful friendship and loyalty, why would they give all of that up just to live in some sparky cave with no natural sunlight, away from their natural habitat and their friends(the vikings)? Make it make sense. Anyone that says that the 3rd movie is logical and great must be doing really heavy mental gymnastics just to construct hypothetical scenarios in which it still might make a little sense.
@@Luna-ny9fq very true imao Hell Toothless wasn’t even forced to stay with Hiccup, as Gift of the Nightfury shown that even if he wasn’t disabled he would of stayed with Hiccup- I know that the writers I think were told that the movie had to end with the dragons leaving by original book author’s request, but they could of done a better reason for the dragons to leave, like I don’t buy that just another bland antagonist that wasn’t even the worse one they faced compared to Race to the Edge was responsible for dragons and humans going separate ways like huh-
It's like they were fighting others to get power over the dragons so they could do whatever they wanted with them. Not that Hiccup loved the dragons and wanted to coexist with them, and fight for them. The "sending them away" felt kind of like an abuse of power. Because wouldn't dragons want to explore the world? If anyone has watched the TV show you know that how they interact with the wilderness is much more in depth. If the cavern was what they were designed for, then as a species they wouldn't have left. And as we already know, they are thinking beings with opinions. So there is NO WAY 100% of them would want to live there for the rest of their lives.
@@painter-wolf I know that episode (GOTNF) but I personally don't count is as cannon because it just wouldn't make sense for Toothless to not keep the independent tail as he could still stay with Hiccup and fly with him but it would've been so much more convenient and safe in all those situations where he tried to save Hiccup but couldn't because he was unable to fly. But yes, if all of the dragons would have to leave it could be due to an undefeatable enemy like a dragon disease in the human world or something(I know that's dumb but I actually can't think of any other good reason for them to leave, it's just not logical no matter how you look at it) DreamWorks should've just paid the writer off so that they could keep the dragons if that's really the reason why they made them leave
Before even watching this video: I disliked how big a plot hole the last movie left. There was likely plenty of dragons above the hidden world who were just well... screwed. They couldve easily moved underground, the entirety of the inhabitants of berk could’ve fit. In my eyes there was zero reason to seperate hiccup and toothless. They could’ve easily moved below ground and kept saving dragons. Another thing: they also broke the entire message of the first movie that dragons and viking could get along by saying “wait nevermind”. Which im guessing is what this video is about.
the message mixup was because the movie was including the book's ending. the books were exploring why humans and dragons had a mixed relationship, and couldn't get along.
@WillFanofMany How to Train Your Dragon is about challenging the natural order. Dragons were burning the Berkian's village, stealing their livestock, likely killing many of them in the first movie - but nevertheless, they learned to get along. Why would that not happen with the Hidden World? Don't you think it would make a fantastic arc, make the story go full circle? In the first movie, Vikings welcome the dragons into their homes. And if in the final movie the dragons gave the Berkians shelter when their own homes were taken, that would be a fantastic and heartwarming ending that fir with the themes. Besides, talking in a purely logical sense now, why, **why**, would Toothless not just use his seemingly limitless alpha powers (which honestly is a concept I hate but it seems to be part of the movie) to get the dragons to let the Berkians stay? He literally gets them to shut off their life preservation instincts and go into cages, for a random hoe he found the day before no less, and you're saying he'd be unable to stop dragons from attacking the Berkians?
@WillFanofMany 1. "The dragons on Berk burned houses down, the dragons in the hidden world immediately skipped that and used their claws and mouths." But the Berkians ended up befriending those dragons even after (presumably) centuries of war with them. 2. "As I just said, the Hidden World is not habitable for humans, humans need a bit more than fish to actually live lives... especially in regards to physically health." In the same way that it is not habitable for dragons either. Dragons, need I remind you, which have evolved over likely millions of years to live in the open. They likely need sunlight for their circadian rhythm to work, a variety of food only accessible on the surface, and in the case of aquatic dragons large bodies of interconnected water. Putting them back there and expecting them to survive is akin to throwing humans in the ocean, just because we evolved from marine creatures. This is a huge plothole in the movie that doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and also a big fuck-you to the meticulous and relatively realistic world of the original HTTYD. EDIT: Also, look up "Inuit" 3. "The 2nd film was about the dangers of abuse, Toothless forcing the dragons to allow strangers to live with them would set him down a path similar to types like the Red Death and the Dark Bewilderbeast. " I don't get how you draw this parallel. The Red Death was a tyrannical leader in her own right, eating the dragons that didn't bring her back food. This had absolutely nothing to do with letting 'strangers' live in the nest. The Bewilderbeast was raised and constantly abused by Drago, who used it to help with his plans for world domination; again, I fail to grasp what the parallel here is. 4. "Toothless ordering the dragons into cages was part of his plan, not to mention Light Fury was the Queen of dragons at that point, so the dragons instincts were to protect both their king and queen by following along." How did she become queen? Where is this explained? Why would the dragons give two hoots in hell about her when all she has done is put them into risk by drawing their alpha away at a time of need? If they just do it because it is their instinct, then that is no better than the dragons coming back to the Red Death's nest without food, knowing they would be eaten - Toothless' decision to give up the dragons made no sense, and it is an insult to the dragon's intelligence that they follow this order. 5. "The dragons on Berk know vikings, the ones in the Hidden World do not. The dragons on Berk listen to Toothless, the ones in the Hidden World barely did." Again, the dragons on Berk were in a mortal war with the Vikings until they started to mutually understand each other. There being other dragons who already trust the Berkians would be a huge bonus, as it is all but confirmed that dragons can communicate with each other. While it may be difficult, it is what the main theme of the original movies is about - learning to live with others, overcoming challenges, and never giving up.
I agree that this wasn’t a fitting ending because the whole point of the series was to prove that dragons and humans can live together but releasing the dragons because there will always be someone in the world who will want to harm them(or use them to harm others like Drago was doing)is like they are now saying the exact opposite. Also at the end of the second movie Hiccup says that little by little they will change the world(he meant that they will make the world a place where they can all live together in peace) but when they released their dragons it was as if they gave up on their goal. Lastly it doesn’t make sense that they were able to gather every single dragon at Berk and after they released them there were no more dragons anywhere in the entire world so the ending was kind of non-sense For me the ending felt like an excuse from DreamWorks not to make a 4th movie
I think they just took the ending from the books and slapped it onto those movies, just because. But yea, I agree. Hiccup always believed that there can be a world for those two species together, and even Valka said in the 2nd movie that he will be the one that brings the two worlds together, "thats who he is". So its very unrealistic he would suddenly go down and give up his entire dream after 1 year. Valka was in a similar position. Suddenly she thought "hmmm maybe we cannot bring the two worlds together after all" in the third movie even thou she lived in a secret dragon hideout for 20 years... Also why would Hiccup suddenly give up after a guy like Grimmel threatens them a little while Drago basically killed his father??? Thats a lot worse than just capturing all the dragons for 1 minute. Wtf Hiccup.
Honestly I think it’s incredibly unrealistic to assume that Grimmel alone killed off an entire species of dragons like the movie implied it just doesn’t make sense especially considering the hidden world isn’t assessable by humans Also kind off a nit pick but I don’t think it make sense that toothless would be alpha in the hidden world just because he’s the alpha at berk i mean we saw in the second movie that dragons have to fight for the power to be the alpha but all toothless did was show up and he was respected by all
Thank you so much for touching on the Alpha thingy, I feel like everyone is ignoring it. You are right; there is no way he could have become the Alpha of the entirety of the Hidden World within 1 day. This shows the pisspoor writing this movie truly has
I was REALLY hoping they weren’t going to do this. The whole thing with dragons disappearing under the sea never to be seen again. That was for the books, and it was really bad that they thought they had to end the movies the same way, when the story in the movie was nothing like the story in the books. Not even remotely similar. The books were SO much darker, that world was actually broken. Those people were actually monsters. Not only that, but the same pattern had repeated itself three times over at that point, something had to change. Granted, as a book fan, they had me fangirling so hard in the cinema, hearing actual lines from the book being said in the movie, it was kind of awesome BUT it wasn’t something I actually wanted, or thought would make a good story. They were never building up to that! In the books dragons and humans had been living together for Thor knows how long, and the humans had been using dragons as pets/(slaves) all that time. When Hiccup found Toothless, he was among a whole class of boys all on a mission to retrieve themselves a dragon to train to do their bidding. They were teaching him to yell at it and be dominant over it so that it does whatever you tell it to. You weren’t even meant to speak to your dragon, even though dragons were sentient beings with their own language that Hiccup had gone to the trouble to learn. Hiccup was going to get kicked off the entire island and left to die as an outcast just for not being abusive enough to beat a dragon into submission. The whole archipelago was practically built on slavery. Even Hiccup became a slave. I think everyone on Berk became a slave. It was so bad. This ‘relationship’ between dragons and humans was way too broken to be rekindled. The dragons leaving was a good thing. In the movie it’s completely the opposite, dragons and humans have no relationship, and have not even had an attempt at one. They live in their own worlds, and fight each other when they cross paths. Hiccup was being taught that he needed to learn to fight them so that he could protect himself, because they’re horrible creatures. But he figured out that they can actually get along. The happy ending was when finally, everyone started to realise that they could get along, and live with each other instead of apart from each other, be friends, help each other out, I love that! There’s no reason why they can’t be friends, and build a word where it’s meant for all of them. They get companionship from each other, they help each other out and most of all, protect each other. It was unity. And a wonderful one. Book = slave owner and slave relationship Movie = unity and companionship Like??? Whoever thought these two concepts ought to end the same way??? I mean to say that this video is perfect, very spot on. Because the first two movies obviously did say that together they can take on any enemy, and ultimately triumph because they are so much stronger as a team. They just weren’t in a situation where they needed to be separated. The Vikings in general weren’t actually relying on their dragons so much that it was a problem, they were just making life better. The dragons didn’t feel smothered, they felt loved and had more purpose. They really only did it to end it the same way as the books. But it didn’t have the same story at all. It pretty much just makes me sad. They made up all their own stories and weren’t true to the source material, which is okay. They made their own amazing story. But they should have come up with their own amazing ending.
This is why I think the ending of the HTTYD book series works much better than in the films. Yes, in both the films and the books, the dragons all leave, however, in the books, the vikings aren't fighting the dragons, the dragons are, in a way, kinda the vikings pets and have been their pets for hundreds of years. And, whilst intelligent, they are very selfish creatures with little regard for any life outside their own. Whilst Hiccup can appreciate them and speak their language (literally), the other vikings exploit the dragons for their own desires and treat them rather horribly. The books weren't about going against nature so to speak, they were going against the vikings pre conceptions about being superior to dragons. This all comes to a head in the last books where the Dragons actively rebel against the humans and how horribly they've been treated, leading to them eventually leaving (much slower though because you can't really migrate a whole species away from the over world in 2 minutes) The vikings are actively a worst people for exploiting the dragons, and the dragons become worse when faced with the vikings, so the whole "we don't deserve the dragons yet" kinda thing works much better.
@@isauldron4337He kinda did. In the epilogue, Toothless began to spend more and more time away from Hiccup. At the time of it, Toothless had apparently been away for a while and Hiccup is waiting for him
The hidden world lesson: If something is hard (like coexisting) ditch it and don't strive for anything. Who the hell want to do hard things? PLUS dragons are better than humans and other live beings so they need their own hidding world… w-what, did you thought that all living beings were equals? Nah
HTTYD 1: "If you do the work to understand each other and work with each other, you can make the world a better place!" HTTYD 2: "Some people's minds can't be changed" HTTYD 3: "You can't change the entire world all at once, so you should just go back to your original in-groups and out-groups, give up, and wait for it to fix itself on it's own"
Leaning *far* out of the window here but imagine HTTYD with the context of racism instead of dragons. Blacks were portrayed as bad people and people killed or enslaved them, but eventually people warmed up to them and accepted them. Some people just can’t accept them no matter how hard you try to convince them. Since not 100% of the population can accept every race they should all hide on a secret, off the map island until we are ready to accept them.
@@shrekwesmobamboo No, it's just a summary of the movie's message. The characters DO realize that the world is slow to change, and their solution to that IS to just give up, go back to having humans and dragons living separately again, and wait for the world to fix itself on it's own. And the movie treats this as the right thing for them to do.
@@smoldragon339 i still feel as tho the real message is that you shouldn’t try to combine two entirely different species together to the point where it causes a problem. Toothless and hiccup found a hidden world and sanctuary they can peacefully survive in, and this is a solution within a solution. I don’t feel they’re giving up but just giving in.
@@shrekwesmobamboo Giving in IS giving up. The dragons cannot roam free anymore, they are confined to that hidden world. Yes, it's a peaceful place, but it's peaceful confinement. Of an entire species. Instead of fighting for a world where future humans and future dragons could live together, they decided to re-segregate their two species and condemn future generations of dragons to confinement because short-term peace was less scary. And even if you do go with the message you describe, that message STILL undermines the first movie. Whenever you combine two different groups, especially if they're two entirely different species, there's always going to be some differences. And sometimes yes, those differences might cause problems. So you work through them. You work to understand one another, and work to help others understand as well. You don't just give in and cease all interaction between the two groups entirely (save for once every several years) just because you hit bumps in the road.
I also really hated that the introduction of the light fury was like “omg toothless isn’t the only one”. Yes, he is the only one (as far as we know). She’s not a night fury. She is a different species entirely. This last movie did literally EVERYTHING wrong
Can we also talk about how bland and boring the lighfury was? like, the only purpose of her existance is to be Toothless girlfriend...I hate when that's the only purpose of a character .-. She could have gotten a good developement, but instead we got nothing
Toothless' girlfriend in the books is much better. Her name is The Stormfly, and it's really a one sided crush on Toothless' end. This has very little relation on the plot, and Hiccup has no girlfriend, either. And I am also annoyed at the lack of character development for the Light Fury.
Well, I have been waiting for 10 years just to end up seeing a LIGHT FURY, not another Night fury(female) just imagine how much story they could take out from the apparition of another Toothless' species BUT, they didn't give, not a single clue about what happened to them, they were all hunted, that's it, wonderful way to end up the trilogy. Gosh. Sorry for my english.
And I swear somewhere through the franchise they said Night furys were very intelligent for there species? If there were why didn’t at least one stay down there. There was a variety of dragons down there and one specie of Night fury could not stay down there? They didn’t show much of aquatic dragons down there but the movie gave the feeling that any dragon should be down there.
Tbh a more brute female light fury would represent the wild calling for Toothless itself rather than a smooth and round feminine version of Toothless Scars would have been more visible and her agressiveness would’ve been like those mangy street cats to show how much she survived the harsh threats of natural disasters and humans Also Toothless would’ve lowered down his lovey dovey side and not just fall in love with a wild dragon he never met that easy Also I feel like a female Night Fury COULD still work somehow.
@@pilummurialis6490 wasn't toothless like really aggressive and violent in the first one wasn't he attacking berk so there was no need for her to be violent toothless already was
i am SO glad this video exists. when you mentioned the part where humans cannot learn to change if they dont have the dragons to coexist with, how can they change at all?? absolutely spot on. this movie took everything i loved about the first two movies and crushed it.
I actually feel so bad for the Light Fury. I actually enjoy (most) of her design and there are a few special moments where a specific part of her personality shines through, such as yeeting Hiccup off Toothless without hesitation or admiring Toothless's drawing and then IMMEDIATLY growling the moment he acts defensive, or how determined she was to save both Toothless and Hiccup at the end, but she's shoehorned so clumsily into Toothless and Hiccups relationship with the sole intention to break them apart, that she becomes unlikeable.
Yea she honestly isnt too bad - the only problem is the way she was shoehorned in. AND how she wasnt given a chance to embrace Berk AFTER she was willing to give them a chance (she revealed herself to Hiccup etc. after she followed them from the HW), but APPARENTLY Hiccup just pretends like he didnt see that at the end...
Not every movie with humans and magical creatures needs to explain why they aren’t here anymore. People watch HTTYD because of the dragons, not the realism or the connections to the real world. If that was the case why are there only small islands? Where are the huge lands that build todays countries?
Yeah the reasons felt very forced. First it was that it was getting too crowded. They solved that. They got a bigger island. We’re all good now right? Nope. Then it was that people are too mean. Okay? You’ve literally been dealing with that already. It’s a fact of life: when things change, people are gonna resist, sometimes violently. A major point of the franchise was not giving in to that peer pressure to just do what others want over what’s right. But instead, they pack ‘em all up and ship ‘em down under, not only completely undoing all the work they had done to integrate their societies, but also leaving them extremely vulnerable now that so many people hated them for befriending the dragons. There were certainly elements of this movie that I enjoyed, but things like the ending and the aggressive doggification of Toothless kinda threw me off.
People 'stopped believing in dragons' in only 10 years, despite probably seeing them with their own eyes. I have never seen a Yangtze River Dolphin, they've been extinct for _more than 10 years,_ and I still 'believe' in them wtf Dreamworks. The Stellar's Sea Cow has been extinct even longer, as has the Great Auk, the Tasmanian Tiger, the _Quagga._ We have _evidence_ of all of these, you're telling me people with specific dragon heraldry or dragon skull trophies _forgot where that came from???_
Well, given that the full line in the movie is "people believe the dragons are gone, if they ever existed at all", I had assumed that that was describing two groups of people, those that did live in dragon territory and knew they were real and thought they went extinct, and those that lived outside it and had likely never even seen a dragons, just heard tales of them from 'crazy' northmen.
Well only Hiccup and Astrid know the exact location of the Hidden World so no one can really go there. Its not like people forgot where the dragons went. They just don't know.
@@Jwsponky makes a good point. The way I understood it was a subtle commentary on people today, trying to speak to the imagination of the kids in the audience wishing dragons exist. I know it's in Hiccup's voice and Jwsponky's explanation makes a lot of in-world, narrative sense, but I couldn't help but feel like, being part of a monologue, when that line was written, it was intended to be directed at the audience.
Very well thought through. I would very much prefer your version. The ending, showing Toothless to his kids, was very sweet in my opinion, but unfulfilling.
I know, I was also like "well, what about all the other Berkians? Do they get to visit their dragons too? They loved them just as much as Hiccup loved Toothless but I guess only the chiefs get visitation rights 🤷♀️
Did you ever stop to think, maybe the third movie wasn't the end? That the ending of the movie was a little hint at more movies to be coming. Watch the ending again, and listen very carefully at everything that's being said, there's a hidden message in there, try and see if you can figure it out. :)
@@inspiringothers7197 sadly, there most likely won’t be anymore movies to come... this series was meant to be a trilogy, so I see no reason as to why they would make more movies. We can look forward to more shorts though :) I wish they made another TV series, maybe one that is set after HTTYD2?
Also what's with all these damn animated movies and absolutely NEEDING some sort of nostalgic end where multiple characters part? Why can't the squad stay together? Why does everyone hate the idea of being happy where one is?
100% agree with this. I'm so sick of "tearful goodbyes". If I wanted to be sad and part ways with all the people I loved and respected, I would just hang out irl and never watch animated films. There is a reason I like watching animated films and want to escape for a few moments! Is is so hard to ask for a stable relationship in a film that people can enjoy and find comfort in?
Because that's life. If you can't let go of animated characters that aren't even real, how the hell can you let go of real people? Things change. People drift.
I mean, im an emotionally unstable teen girl who had no friends at the time, but when I heard how the movie was gonna end a year or so ago (that it would end how the books started) it sent me into a deep shock and depression. I know its idealistic to have life long friends, especially from your teenage years like Hiccup had, but unlike our complicated world which has people travel and go different places entirely, their world was too tight knit, too recluse to have that issue. It would have been nice to see a friendship that stood against the world instead of a painful reminder that all my friends I struggled to get and the friendships I treasured could so easily end
@Trvrr Zbsky Of course no one 'wants' to; I literally never said that. But it happens, sometimes for the best, even if it's hard to accept. If you refuse, you'll end up holding them back. This is exactly what we see with Toothless; he was going to become the literal king of dragons. If he'd stayed with Hiccup, he would have lost that right. Once again: That's just life. Better you accept it now than to get blindsided by it later.
Another thing I didn’t like about this movies is that the question of “Is toothless the last of his kind?” goes completely unanswered. I remember watching these movies as a kid and being excited for the next one thinking I would get to see another night fury. Wasn’t that part of Hiccup’s motivation to explore and map out new land? This was completely ignored and instead of being introduced to another night fury, we just get a boring light fury whose sole purpose is to seduce toothless.
Agreed on the light fury thing and the idea I have not only gives her a reason to be the way she ( an actual backstory ) it also makes it where their would have been night furies in the hidden world Explanation : One direction they could have went in they could have given her skin pigmentation problem which would make her an albino night fury making it easy for humans to trap and find her which is why she is so scared of them also it would make her stand out and made her an interesting character having it be there are more night furies In the hidden world but her be the only white one or if there really had to be light she should have been the female version of a night fury extremely dangerous and poisonous to humans and other animals because in the animal kingdom the brighter and prettier the animal looks more likely it's going to kill you making her a more dangerous version of toothless having it for the the light/night fury species the male is the one that takes care of the offspring and find food at night which explains their color the female being bright and beautiful to attract a male and the male being dark to keep their babies safe, while the female is more of the dangerous protector which would also make her more vicious and cautious then the male, partly explaining why toothless is much more kind, having her design a bit more Sharp making the spikes on her back not only poisonous but painful making that the reason why humans can't ride them and if they really needed a villain the light furies could have been the dragon grimmauld was using the poison from also giving her another reason to hate and fear humans
"I left the theaters feeling empty" I have said those exact words about this movie. It's comforting finding others who have thought the same... It's unfortunate because the first two movies made me, me. And then the third movie? I hardly remember the plot, just the feeling of disappointment, emptiness, and betrayal.
I've always seen people just praise HTTYD, all of the movies and they said that it had a perfect ending. I felt weird for seemingly being the only one who didnt like it. I just didnt understand why toothless would leave him after all this time just because he found a mate??? Anyway, glad to see that i am not alone with my opinion
httyd is one of the few franchises that consistently made me cry: the forbidden friendship scene, hiccup losing his leg, the flight scene at the beginning of the second movie, stoick and valka's reunion, stoick's death, hiccup being crowned. it's a franchise packed to the brim with emotion yet in the third one i felt nothing. i didn't recognize toothless, i barely recognized hiccup and astrid. toothless giving everything up for the light fury felt like such a huge betrayal. throwing everything they had gone through together away for such a bland, shallow character. they destroyed the heart of the franchise and for what? with hiccup and toothless' bond breaking so easily nothing that happens in the franchise seems to matter at all. honestly it was a slap in the face, and not in a good way. this movie failed in so many ways: the characters, the plot, the villain. i don't understand how everything fell apart this badly. it's clear they wanted to use the iconic line of the books and went against everything they had built on to do so. and the thing is- i wouldn't have minded hiccup and toothless separating, it had the potential of being really emotionally powerful, if done well. but this was so incredibly unearned, it just left me scratching my head. to me the ending of the second movie will always be the true ending, hopeful and full of love and emotion: "we are the voice of peace, and bit by bit, we will change this world."
I made a whole WP book about it, my heavy opinion on Stormless, the third movie and my own AU, so I'm happy others agree with my perspectives/opinions! I was pretty surprised to find this video, let alone the popularity of similar opinions, let alone this one. Plus, it goes against the ENTIRE franchise. It makes Dagur's and Viggo's motives/plans/knowledge absolutely USELESS! And it puts the movie-short 'The Gift Of The Night Fury' in the gutter. If being the king of the hidden world was Toothless' SUPPOSED destiny, why didn't he go to it when Hiccup made him a tail he could use himself? How could he NOT find it? Or at least bump into/bring back a Light Fury? Or even get shot DOWN by a hunter/Grimmel because he was mostly hunting down Hiccup's helmet during the DAY?
I know right. After the nostalgia wore off I just thought, damn this movie wasn't nearly as good as it could've been and far from as emotional as it deserved to be.
I believe that there are still night furies out there. In the second movie it's proven that valka has encountered at least another that is not toothless. Just because 1 guy who looks like Santa's junkie twin brother said he'd take them all out doesn't mean he did. In my head the third movie does not exist and toothless stayed with hiccup as they grew old together
Personally, I think the villain is a big part of the problem of this movie. why did we need another cookie cutter villain dude? we didn't. His presence in the movie massively dilutes the themes the series has gone with so far. the movie hints a great deal at conflict within, but Grimmel's threat takes so much screen time that there is no time to explore the themes that are actually what the movie should be about. Remove him and focus on the bond between Hiccup and Toothless and how the Light Fury's existence upsets their balance in addition to the relationship between dragons and humans in general and we have a story about things that matter. instead we got a forgettable villain who did nothing interesting. all he did was derail the themes of the film with his magic mind control serum. Also, that ending really, really came out of nowhere for me. I was taken aback at this sudden shift in everyone's minds to let everything they've built over the last 10-or-however-many-years-have-passed go for... what exactly?
He wasnt cookie cutter wtf? His premise is that he is who hiccup would have become had he killed Toothless in the forest in the first movie and received that adulation
anytime I find a movie of a series to be out of tone/theme and painfully bad to sit and watch through I don't consider that movie to be cannon eventhough it technically is.
*@Rainbow Strike:* same. And why does it have to be white for it to be female? (I'll confess that for the longest time I thought Toothless _was_ female! Fishlegs calls Meatlug "girl" and I could swear I remember hearing the other Dragon Riders refer to their dragons as females too.)
@@ZJCitricAcidGraf.E.T. There are male light furies!! The light fury we see in the movie is a part of a different species of dragon related to the night fury (Like how dogs are simmilar to wolves)
11:35 I think it also draws some unintentional moral relativism into the series. First movie: don’t kill dragons they can be friends who can mutually benefit society. Second movie: don’t make dragons slaves for war? Third movie: Making your friend dragons do your chores is wrong and is slavery. So let’s release our slaves. It’s probably just me but I feel like Berk was the only place on the planet not using dragons as livestock. Berk befriended their dragon enemies and portrayed it as mutual respect. Then by the third film they (retro actively) portray themselves as the bad guys for training dragons (no toothless go... your to pure for us and society... slavery is inevitable so we must separate).
Even more outrageous is the talk (even by the writers themselves) of having to "Free" Toothless as well as the rest of the dragons. Dean DeBlois himself reffered to Toothless as being "corrupt"/impure due to being tamed (Or "domesticated", even though that's not at all how domestication works, and he forgets Toothless lived 15+ years on his own before meeting Hiccup). The artbook argues Hiccup is hoarding them to himself, while simultaneously pointing out that the dragons visit Berk to pay tribute to the alpha, and willingly choose to stay, and that the Berkians actually enjoy this way of life, cumbersome as it may seem. It's all one giant clusterfuck that spits on the entire franchise.
@@maggieent3215 Yeah that's right. The books had actual stakes and a lot more going on. The movie's reasoning for pushing the dragons away is painfully, miserably weak.
@@MizaT11 Indeed, the way some of those involved in the movie seemed to idealize the whole notion of "nature is only good if humans stay far away from it" contradicts the other movies so much (which idealized how dragons and humans can be better together). There is no such thing as "purity" when it comes to wild animals, they are all effected by humans, each other, and vice versa. Making those effects positive is what we should focus on, rather than outright removing all contact. Note I think the movie itself thankfully didn't give that message so strongly, but that the writers expressed those sentiments in interviews is a bit disturbing to think about. Especially given how I recall it being said in another commentary that the ending of the third movie was supposed to be a "final ride" or something like that instead of any indication that Berk and the dragons will continue to have recurring interactions (and even outright saying Toothless had forgotten about Hiccup). And the fact remains that the movie failed to adequately explain why it was so necessary for Berk to separate from the dragons (after all the threat they faced in the second movie was arguably worse than what happened in the third, yet instead of fighting they opt to leave their centuries long home after one attack). Well, maybe the holiday special will retcon some of this stuff. I'd be happy if it did.
They didn't make them do anything. The dragons had fun doing what they did, but the berkians realized it was too dangerous for the dragons and for themselves when there was always one evil person in the way. You people are dumber than rocks. I swear the people who talk shit about the third film simply don't have the comprehension skills past 2nd grade.
Thank you so much for making this video. The third installment of How To Train Your Dragon was such a letdown for me that I felt seriously depressed for weeks after I watched it. The first movie teaches us that doing what is popular is not always right, and that doing what is right is not always popular. It teaches us to embrace our unique strengths, to appreciate the unique strengths of those around us, and to open our minds to change. The second movie teaches us bravery in the face of adversity, and to fight for what we love - the lifestyles that make us happy, and our friends and family. But what does the third movie teach us? It teaches us that when the going gets tough, just give up. Abandon what you believe in if it endangers you. Part ways with the things that make you happy in order to live a peacefully monotonous life of sameness and boredom.
The ending also didnt make sense at all. Why would Hiccup and the rest of Berk just simply give up? After they defeated Drago in the second movie (aka the man who practically killed Valka's bewilderbeast AND Hiccups dad) they were like "we can do anything!!!" and here after Grimmel, a guy who literally only threatened the people throughout the entire movie and captured the dragons at the end for like 2 minutes, Hiccup suddenly goes like: "Omggg this is sooo cruel! Omg we dont deserve you dragons! You should leave!" Like what
@@anfani6839 Yeah, it is absolutely insane and doesn't make any sense at all. I hate the third movie with every fiber of my being. It frustrates me that that was the route the directors chose, and it frustrates me even more that audiences liked the damn thing. Were they even watching the same movie as us? Did they even understand the themes in the first two films? Or were they only interested in the franchise because DrAgOnS r NeAt?
100000 million times this! I despise this movie soooo very much - and it's not even that I've grown up or anything, cause I rewatched the other two movies after the third one and I still loved them to bits! I really dont understand how people can like this. My guess would be that they find the Nightlight romance to be cute and were probably too stunned by the visuals to notice all the flaws this movie has... I honestly wish I could erase this movie from existance and from everybodys mind so that I dont have to think about how much I hate this movie anymore
It’s clear you guys take fictional movies way too seriously. We get it, you hate the third movie. It was a huge disappointment for you and that really sucks. But surely, it’s not worth anyone’s time to hate something so much that’s not even real or has that much of a major impact on anyone’s life.
I think a better point for the film to have ended in would've be something like: "yes, there will always be some people and some dragons that refuse to change, who refuse to live in peace. Some will always hate what they don't understand, and don't want to understand. But so too will there be the people who see the beauty and joy and freedom that community with dragons can bring to both species. Because for every drago bludvist and grimmel the grisly, there is also a hiccup, a toothless, and a berk who saw love and put down their hate" So basically the end point would be: community and love will always triumph over fascists/people who try to divide us, and that we shouldn't just give up even when the odds seem insurmountable and neverending
Bruh, I spent my winter break this year watching all HTTYD content in order (the movies itself, the shows, holiday specials, extras and whatnot) and wow, I just felt so underwhelmed from the ending of the franchise. I was literally saying, "That's it?" I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking this; I was feeling a little unreasonable up until this point
HTTYD was my first ever fandom that i was super into, years before su. As a conservationist, i find the message that humans don't deserve dragons, and that we should separate ourselves from them completely until we 'know better' is kinda bad. Modern conservation techniques are all about integration of humans and nature, learning to live side by side peacefully. Its the most practical thing to do. like, try telling a poor indian farmer to just leave the tiger alone. Httyd3's theming is a very.. 1980s approach to conservation :/
yeah, that follows what the video said about the dragons also having the right to exist and explore this earth. it's a shame that the ending basically argues that they should limit themselves to the hidden world just because there will always be human threats; following the themes from httyd 1 & 2, wouldn't the correct theme of httyd 3 be "even though human threats to dragons are inevitable, we will always do our best to defeat them and protect dragons"? in the real world, poachers are terrible threats to rhino/elephant populations but we still do our best to prevent them from killing these animals instead of shoving all the rhinos/elephants into impenetrable enclosures closed off from the rest of the world... plus, the berkians have already demonstrated that they will do whatever it takes to protect dragons, even doing so much as LEAVING BERK. it's a bit strange to suddenly flip on that stance for this ending to the franchise imo
...uh...huh modern conservation techniques.... yes...this wonderful technique of literally destroying all the habitat in the world that these animals live in. comparing it to modern day techniques....is just...really really really really bad.
@@LilyUnicorn Excuse You? conservationists are trying their damnedest, pioneering new and effective techniques better than anything that's come before. We're doing everything we can, and somehow we're responsible habitat destruction? Not the governments and corporations who refuse to give us funding because they do not care about the environment (which was the same in the 80s). A green sustainable future is ready to go but whether the world accepts it is a different matter that is out of conservationists hands.
OH. MY. GOOOOOOD!!! You’ve just explained my exact problem with this third movie! The first two movies had an extremely strong friendship as theme and the third one is Toothless being doofy and choses a girl over Hiccup. That’s my problem! Thank you so much for describing it so well.
Honestly how to train your dragon 3 was the most forgettable of this series. I couldn't even bring my self to remember it's villain or story if my life depended on it.
I left the theater feeling empty, just like you described. I felt like I wasn't supposed to be disappointed in the movie, because it was actually really good, but at the same time, well, yeah. It's Hiccup & Toothless. Not Toothless & some chick dragon he just found. I'd much rather have had an ending without that white fury altogether, and our favourite pair staying best buds til the end, much like you. It's a shame, because they were my favorite animated movies, but now it's over forever, and we're just left with a bittersweet ending.
i thought the vikings would move to live and protect the dragons in the end of the world, the moment they showed the caves you could just IMAGINE how weird and beautiful the city would be. The art direction in HTTYD is usually amazing. The dragons are all unique, watching Berk adapt each movie to the dragons, and even their CLOTHING starts to change to look more like dragons, it all feels... natural. Which is why I have another complaint: Light Fury's design. I mean, are you kidding me? I can't believe they went with the smoother-version-of-the-male trope. Sometimes she even looks boring, even her scales are mostly gone to make her look femme-er. She could've had a design similar but just as unique as Toothless, I mean, holy crap, his design was so good everybody LOVES him, evey black cat with green eyes are compared to him, he is adorable, but powerful. The only thing I liked about her is that they didn't make her Astrid's dragon to do a double couple thing-y. (also no joke every single viking and dragon looked both happier and healthier living with each other) loved the video btw, I thought I was gonna disagree but your ideas were super interesting
Yes! A Berkian village in the Hidden World would look so ethereal and cool, just imagine a mix of viking longship, bioluminescent coral and dragon architecture for homes, it would work so well. Part of what I liked about HTTYD was beautiful imagery with a little bit of personal touch and roughness to it; dragons would be brightly coloured but have wattles and scars, vikings would wear cool outfits of fur and chainmail but would have a gangly awkwardness to them. A Berkian HW village would definitely fit with the franchise's imagery without seeming over-the-top or ridiculous.
You bring up a lot of good points. For me, the kerfuffle of a message that sticks out to me the most is that separation. If two groups who've had troubled pasts and carry certain stigmatizations/stereotypes of each other have trouble getting along, is the solution really to segregate them from each other completely until they somehow learn to get along?
Exactly - how are those two groups supposed to learn to live with each other if they don't even see one another?? Or is Hiccup expecting that magically humans will just go like, "ohhh booooyyy we really shouldnt abuse dragons anymore" out of the blue? Especially if he already said that people had already forgotten that dragons existed - so wtf was even the point?
What's even more dumb is that they make it sound like EVERY single entire dragon in the world went to the Hidden World. The setting is set in Scandinavia which is just one part of the whole world. I guess all the Scandinavian dragons went to the Hidden World but what about dragons that are not even living in the Scandinavian region. Let's go back to 2nd film and point out Drago: Stoick called him a stranger from a strange land, even though they never flat out say where Drago is from we can easily tell he's from a more Southern, warmer and exotic land nowhere near the cold Scandinavian region because of his tanned skin, dreadlocks and accent. Also the art book said the sun emblem on his belt is meant to show he's from a warmer climate. Remember what Drago said? He said his village was burned and massacred by dragons when he was just a child. If Drago's village is in a completely different region nowhere near the one this series is set in then it's pretty obvious that there are dragons living in other areas of the world. Also it sounds like those dragons were flat out merciless. Hell we don't even know what sort of dragons they were. They could be some species we haven't seen yet that are not native to cold regions and actually have a taste for human flesh or are just flat out evil. Are we just gonna ignore that there are probably still loads of dragons living outside the Scandinavian region and some of them are probably still untamed going around massacring villages and making people go through the same trauma Drago went through and flat out started his dark path and sooner or later it's gonna happen to someone else and history repeats itself?
One of my gripes is that the light fury isn't intelligent enough to earn toothless. Toothless is shown throughout all movies and series, to be the most intelligent dragon of them all, capable of not only communicating with the riders on a basic level through gestures and expressions, but also intelligent enough to bond on a level with hiccup that he broke through his own perceived limits for his sake. The light fury has done none of these things. If she was on equal intelligent level as toothless, she would have seen as she stalked and followed toothless that him and his dragons got along with his and their humans, and she'd make attempts to overcome her fear of them. This could actually become a compelling story of her struggling with letting go of her fear, if she was given the same level of intelligence as toothless. Mentally, she'd want to trust toothless and his judgment on humans, and she'd know he's right too, cause she's seen it, but she's constantly held back by the scars of her past. (I know no httyd media ever did flashbacks for dragons, but they wouldn't have to, just show various scars on her body caused by human hunting before every hesitation in her journey to warm up to them, like how they focused on toothless' tail to communicate his hesitation and limitation). That way, hiccup and the gang could also see light fury's struggle and see how she went above and beyond to conquer and overcome her own nature for toothless the way toothless overcame his own nature for hiccup, and that way it'd be more earned and more of a valid cause for toothless to have to choose. If hiccup and the light fury were on equal levels of devotion to him, it'd be a difficult choice, and either choice he'd make would be valid. But as it is, the light fury is just a wild animal, barely any intelligence there, other than warning toothless for a trap and telling him to go around it. And this makes the choice to choose her over hiccup who time and time sacrificed everything for him, so unjustified. Literally throughout the entire series, he's been depicted as 'above that'. In gift of the night fury, when the other dragons left to mate and lay eggs, toothless only left to retrieve hiccup's helmet. And yes, he's the only one of his kind, but he doesn't know that, and even if he did, wouldn't mean his mating cycle would just suddenly dissapear. He could have flown off like all the other dragons, only come home empty handed once it was over, but no, he prioritized helping hiccup. That he'd just throw all of that away for the first best dragon that even looks remotely like him just doesn't make any sense. "out of character" is the phrase for that movie. Not neccesarily a bad movie, but out of character, all of them were done dirty
Movies 1 and 2: *Strong bond that even an Alpha couldn’t break* 3rd movie: *Toothless leaves Hiccup for a girl he just met and had no intension of coming back* Yup, sure, those aren’t a thematic conflict at all. Also, am i the only one who hated that they chose to give us a white and diminutive version of Toothless instead of calling back to the MULTIPLE hints that there might be more Nightfurys out there. I know they maybe wanted Toothless to be “One of a kind” but I think this story would have worked a lot better if they found Toothless’ family instead to mirror Hiccup finding his family (Valka) in the second movie. The one chance they had to focus on Toothless and develop his relationship with another dragon and and they chose to make it some random dragon that the creators DIDNT EVEN NAME.
I think it would've been better if Toothless chose Hiccups instead of going out with other dragons. He & the light furry could've literally stayed and have kids there and I don't think it would be a bad idea.
Even in the books dragons like Toothless, Stormfly etc. stayed with their rider, because they valued their bond more than some life in a watery hole. Here they just leave because Plot.
If they really had to end the movie this way, they could have at least said that the Inhabitants of Berk still had contact with their Dragons instead of „Yeah they all forgot each other lol“.
@-:- HayHay -:- I thought when I saw the trailer of "I'm learning to fly" for this movie that it would turn out the Light Fury was Toothless's best friend from long before he knew Hiccup. By then, as DreamWorks trailers have a habit of spoiling, the fact that they were going to separate was already pretty clear in the trailers. So I at the time was looking forward to this movie. If she was a long lost loved one of Toothless's, how would the stakes work out in which Toothless would need to leave? Would Toothless have to choose between his best friend and his old best friend whom he fell in love with? Turns out she was just a wild girl dragon, not even a female Night Fury which wouldn't have been clear to people watching the movie unless they looked up what Dean said, who had no backstory and only existed to seduce Toothless. Seeing how she made Toothless so quickly forget about his responsibility as the alpha of Berk and want to leave for the Hidden World forever really disturbed me. Even the ending scene with Hiccup and Toothless reuniting: seeing Toothless all wild and ready to attack if needed just made me uncomfortable. I just couldn't help but think something along the lines of "Dear God, what if Toothless met a female Light Fury in the first movie after he and Hiccup JUST became friends? He clearly never bothered to visit Hiccup in 10 years for goodness sakes, he definitely wouldn't have been there to save Hiccup from Hookfang."
I never liked the idea of lightfury being Toohlesses love interest. It could be soo much more pleasing if it was just female night fury, would make more sense if toothless left hiccup for her, infact we all expected it to happen right? The super mysterious species we all want to know more about, I mean I wanna know how disctinct those genders are from each other and I was just dissapointed when I learned that there would be a lightfury instead of nightfury. It really feels like she was created just so toothless can screw. Also I think they made her look that way just to be appealing to kids, but that's not good enough for me.
When I watched this movie, I had the impression that Toothless was in *mad* heat that's why he's so desperate and automatically head over heals for Light Fury despite her not having personality at all.
The producers with the Toothless/Light Fury really took a page from Twilight from that one, because it's exactly what Twilight did on it's day: Portraying obsessive lust as true love.
@@jorgebersabe293 It's the 21th century and some people still think shallow "love at first sight" stories are a still good idea🤦I hate them with a passion. No meaningful character depth or development. If it were a slow burn and Light Fury had an actual personality, it'd have been better. But no, they treated Toothless and her like some bloody hormone-driven animals, despite them displaying human-like intelligence and feelings :/
@@loremipsum980 Light Fury is essentially a blank slate and a plot device without any personality beyond being Toothless love interest. In other words: A draconic Bella Swan.
The problem with the movie saying "our world doesn't deserve you yet" is that the Berkians are the most deserving people on Earth to have dragons. If they aren't worthy of having them then no one ever will be.
I think the third film's ending could have worked really well, the problem for me is that it didn't feel earned. Toothless and Hickup having to deal with growing apart from each other because their lives are being pulled in different directions could have been a great a surprisingly mature way to end the series, given that this will happen in a lot of our relationships throughout our lives. The film however, didn't focus on the right things in order for that separation to feel meaningful to me
Honestly I don’t even mind the fact that the dragons left. I think they handled it kind’ve poorly, but I feel like there was still some reasoning at least. The dragons themselves were always running into conflict with humans, and the fact that Hiccup finally found a place where they could be free and safe from hunters definitely impacted his decision in the end. I also think it’s important to note that Toothless wasn’t necessarily going to abandon Hiccup for the Light Fury. It’s not known as to whether he was going to come back, but I’d like to imagine he would’ve came back to Hiccup if given the chance. What I really disliked was the fact that Hiccup and Toothless had no contact from the moment they said goodbye to the last scene. They hadn’t seen each other for so long that Toothless literally didn’t recognize Hiccup. That just destroyed me. Like it makes absolutely no sense as to why they’d choose to not see each other for years. It’s sad honestly. Httyd 1 and 2 are my absolute childhood and had a huge impact on my life. In fact if it wasn’t for httyd I doubt I’d be studying animation right now. So it’s painful really that the big finale of the series is just so ...meh? Like not that bad but not that good either. Oh well. At least we got two outstanding movies and 3 with outstanding animation at least.
Maybe they didn't visit so they are sure their history with dragons was lost to the world so they could visit without worrying about others following them to kill the dragons and the trip would be worthless if Toothless wasn't on the surface to see their ship. If you look closely tho Hiccup looks dissapointed for a second before the fog reveals the dragons like he did it multiple times and was about to give up and be the last time he does that trip since it's just a painfull memory at that point.
I feel like a good balance between not changing the movie much and keeping with the theme of toothless and hiccup having a special bond is to have toothless go to the hidden world but, in the end, having him and many of the other dragons choose to stay with their humans despite the troubles they may face and for future rescued dragons to get that option- staying with humans or in protected wilds or the safety of the hidden world.
This film pulled a Jungle Book, ngl. Hiccup should've proved Draco wrong but, nope. Imagine if at the end of Kung Fu Panda 3, Po just accepted defeat from Kai. You really nailed this, man. To quote Skipper from The Penguins of Madagascar, "Then, I reject nature!" Also, one more thing. Telling a certain group to "go back to where they came from". Seems pretty sus.
I liked some aspects of this movie but the way they watered down Hiccup and Toothlees' relationship to that of a dude and his pet really bothered me the first and only time I watched this movie. I looked over at my boyfriend and was like "Why am I watching a dragon version of Lassie?!"
I 100% agree with you. Like, I liked the movie just because I LOVE the series, but I agree it didn’t fit the theme and that’s why it just didn’t feel as good as the others.
The thing i dont understand is that the message that they were trying to share in the first movies is the fact that dragons and people can live along together and that they should but in the end none of that mattered
Yes, the ending was totally out of place. Though I feel guys at Dreamworks got it, and are trying to decanonize it by means of Snoggletog specials. Those specials give hope that at least Toothless' family and Astrid's one (yup we all know who is the alpha there) would live or perhaps spend time together. In the end of third movie the whole "Toothless doesn't recognize Hiccup for a while" thing is honestly strange.
Toothless doesn't recognize hiccup is similar to animals in real life when they are apart from their owners for quite some tile they need to smell them to remember them, watch on internet cats and dogs that were apart from their owners and you'll see thta they take quit some before they recognize them
@@hackdesigner But that's what happened in the movie though. He recognised Hiccup through his scent. It makes sense that Toothless would take a hot minute to recognise Hiccup. He hasn't seen him in 9 years and he looks a lot different from the last time he saw him. He probably doesn't think about Hiccup everyday at this point either. Maybe you could argue the metal leg should've given it away, but Toothless has seen other humans with prosthetics before. The only way it doesn't make sense for Toothless to not recognise Hiccup is that Homecoming contradicted that a bit by having Toothless revisit New Berk before the events of HTTYD 3's epilogue, so he should have recognised Hiccup instantly as he's already seen him recently.
I thought the movie would kinda have the messages, "You can't just marry someone you just met that day." and, "Bros before hoes!" It should've, considering the lightfury's role in the movie.
That's the Frozen plot in a nutshell: Kristoff calls Anna out on her choice to marry Hans, even though she barely knew him as a person....surprise surprise, Hans turns out to be an evil bastard.
@@jorgebersabe293 Yeah, I know. I just believe that that would have been a better message than, "Give up on your dreams because they'll never work, even though it already kinda did!"
@@digthesechild-bearinghipsb2842 I understand, in fact, I share the same feeling. Hans/Anna works because it's a deconstruction of the archetypical male lead getting the girl. Toothless/Light Fury doesn't because we are supposed to see it as a romantic relationship....but in practice is lust and obsession.
@@jorgebersabe293 I honestly agree, I also felt like they just downgraded Toothless's intelligence for the sake of the plot. They turned my boi into a simp
Honestly this is so well put...I love the hidden world but i do agree, it felt strange and I too couldnt put my finger on it, also the score for this one was really weird. I know each film should have its own identity music wise but this one was really strange, the final track 'Once there were dragons' is perfect tho ngl
My two cents on the situation, if you oppose any opinions I have that's fine. Beware the spoonful heaps of words, but I've been meaning to express my thoughts on this movie for a long time. I also have an alternate plot inspired from the potential ideas from this video if you are interested: It's always kinda hurt inside how easily Toothless went with ditching his extremely close friend for a girl, a girl which was lowkey a literal plot device for the villain. This video I agree with a lot as their bond was unbelievably close. Heck, even in the spinoff movie "Gift of the Night Fury" Toothless literally breaks an auto tail fin Hiccup made because he wanted to stay by Hiccup, so to see Toothless almost instantly adjust and leave Hiccup behind when he makes a new auto tail fin just feels so off. And I mean yeah, agreed that the ending was satisfying for the movie stand alone, but unfulfilling for the whole series. You could also probably connect the theme of bonds within the previous two movies with the concept of having to distance the bonds at some point, and yeah the movie had that going for it but it wasn't executed very well. Like sure, we did definitely have scenes where Hiccup was contemplating his life without Toothless but almost nowhere in the movie was Toothless thinking the same thing (sans the leaving of the dragons and that one part where he's about to take off after receiving his new tail fin but then looks back). Like we had no part during his interactions with the Light Fury or in the Hidden World that indicated that he was missing Hiccup in any way. And also with regards to the Light Fury, I would've definitely preferred if it had been another Night Fury or at least a small group of them, since an undying question up until the third movie was whether they were still around. Not only would it be really cool and Toothless can help further boost the declining population of such a rare species, but it would also give audiences, especially those who enjoy revolving concepts around other potential Night Furies, the ability to run free with their imagination, as well as giving the fans the satisfaction of finally seeing some other Night Furies. And that's kinda the reason why I don't like Grimmel saying that he essentially killed all Night Furies; it breaks the immersion that there are still other Night Furies out there (or, at the very least, sets an extremely low possibility of more Night Furies) and limits the imagination of people who were probably hoping more than anything that there were more Night Furies. I mean, sure they have NightLight hybrids now but eventually (unless inbreeding occurs) the Light Furies will become the dominant genepool and the pure Night Fury species becoming extinct when Toothless dies. Of course, the animation is stellar and needs no explaining. Like damn those sand effects are amazing, not to mention they did a really nice job animating the Hidden World and giving it that fantasy look. And also something I've been majorly passionate about is with the music of the HTTYD franchise. The first movie integrates its music fantastically with its environment; loud, in your face, a lot of unique and traditional materials used to make the movie feel more authentic and at its roots. (EDIT - After hearing some of the songs I can safely say that it is as well done as the first with those traditional instruments, but it still lacks that loudness or, for some of them, extreme energy the first one had. It's still good nonetheless!) But in the third movie, the music is so quiet and in my eyes personally loses its traditional charm the first one had in favour for more your everyday orchestra instruments. Unlike the first movie, I never really felt a complete integration with the music in the third movie, and it was only in the background the same way Hiccup was in the background to help Toothless with impressing his love interest; he's there to help aid Toothless to progress in advancements but doesn't exactly do the perfect job. 'Exodus' especially and 'Furies in Love' are the closest the soundtrack can personally get to feel the vigour the first one had with their defined rhythm of drums and, with the former, traditional instruments. From what I can recall, the moments these soundtracks are used are integrated with their environment pretty well! I will admit I do like the Light Fury motif though, like an alternate to the HTTYD motif Also, something interesting I've just noticed. The movie is called "How to Train Your Dragon: The Hidden World" rather than How to Train Your Dragon 3, bit curious to why they dropped the number and went with the addition of "The Hidden World". The Hidden World isn't even really seen that much, so why go with this name rather than 3? Just a curious thought.
*And here's just my mind running rampant with the ideas you've come up for an alteration of the movie's plot* Possible thoughts for the other side of the coin would be that, over the course of many years (maybe 10? 15? Actually I was under the impression that in the third movie, prior to hearing anything else other than its release date of 2018 (before getting changed to '19), Hiccup was probably around late 20s-early 30s in age and by the end he was an old man) Hiccup could've been persuading other nearby tribes and clans that dragons aren't that bad and human and dragons can coexist with one another, so we could get some instances of trade by dragon or stuff like that. And I think the conflict brought up in the video of a clan of Vikings unwilling to listen would be really neat, perhaps this clan was an extremely well respected group of Vikings that all other smaller chains in other areas (including Berk) all got their ideas, beliefs and values from, particularly the belief that all dragons are evil. We could get some exposition backstory on how their ancestors were from this tribe and sailed the seas to various lands and conquered them all or something as well! And yeah, again mentioned from the video, their conflicts may be arising from other dragons in the vicinity, other Red Death like dragons or even a Bewilderbeast, and eventually via the help of Hiccup and his team they quell the conflict and the well respected Viking clan turn over a new leaf. And in the meantime of this uprising conflict, perhaps mating season could be occurring like the video mentioned and all the dragons could be going to that one island mentioned in "Gift of the Night Fury". Perhaps Toothless takes Hiccup alongside with him since in the prior mentioned movie Toothless didn't want to leave Hiccup behind with anything, as weird as it sounds. Then, with Hiccup potentially avoiding the gazes of any other dragon, hiding or acting as a live catch in a comedic manner in order to not start a ruckus, maybe there the two search for potential mates for Toothless (Hiccup could potentially bring an immature (as in not mature enough to mate)/baby dragon along just in case Toothless finds a mate and decides to stay) and just when they are about to give up Hiccup spots a small group of Light/Night Furies out for Toothless. Then during the interactions Toothless finds a female that he has particular interest in, and the two can have introductions and everything. Hiccup decides this is a good time to leave and tells Toothless that he will do so in secret. Toothless is upset but Hiccup reassures that he will come back periodically to check up on him, and Hiccup leaves via the baby/immature dragon. Then during these times we can cut in-between the two with Hiccup trying to convince the clan to get along with dragons via the baby/immature dragons they have and Toothless further strengthens his bond with the new female. Perhaps during some instances of Hiccup's periodic returns Toothless could potentially try to introduce Hiccup to his female love interest and/or the small group, with either side being uncomfortable with the process (this could potentially lead to more interactions with Hiccup and the female), but eventually come to the realisation that neither side poses any threat to each other. However we should also show the two of them having to cope with not being aside one another, and potentially even have a moment of realisation that one day one of the two will pass away and the other will have to officially continue on without the other. This leads to Hiccup ultimately creating the tail fin, bringing it over and applying it to Toothless. Toothless initially rejects it at first but Hiccup tells him that Toothless may need it some day for survival should the time comes that he passes away, leading Toothless to begrudgingly leave the auto tail fin on. Potentially, we could also see the two of them becoming stronger without the need for one to be by the others' side as well, like perhaps Hiccup growing more confidence in his leadership capabilities as an individual rather than a team and Toothless adapting more primal tactics and learning to associate himself and socialise better with the small Night/Light Fury group. The climax of the fight between the clan and the dragons (definitely with the aid of their dragon leader) rises during the span of all of this happening. The climax then happens where the dragons initially seem to have the upper hand and just when everything is about to fail the tamed dragons fly in and save the day (some of them with their potential mates, such as perhaps Toothless and his), subduing the ongoing war and convincing the clan that dragons really aren't bad as they seem. Victory ensues and there is a voice over narration from Hiccup telling how the clan eventually adopted their own dragons, and the scene cuts to a significantly older Hiccup and Toothless, each now successfully bearing a lineage of children in order to continue their legacy as the duo who severed the antagonistic views between man and dragon.
@@v1c-was-her3 a. woah, the first part sounds like... the books. I think you should try them if you haven't already. It starts of seemingly simple, but explores the history of the human tribes and their relationship with dragons, philosophy stuff, and Book Hiccup's changing role in society. b. ooh... I like that. Could you elaborate with what Astrid's role would be in this version?
@@maggieent3215 I'm genuinely surprised you read this (since I leave large comment not really expecting much haha) but I appreciate it immensely! A. Oooh that actually sounds pretty cool, perhaps after my finals I could get around to seeing it. I only have the most basic knowledge of the books so hearing this is really neat! B. Hm, in terms of Astrids role we could insert what happened in the third movie during the Hiccup centric parts; the areas where Hiccup is contemplating life without Toothless could pretty much be akin to scenes in the third movie (where he was worried that he may not be able to cope without Toothless and she could act as a support during these times). I suppose then we'd need a healthy balance between Hiccup and Toothless parts. I'm personally unsure if in the alternate movie thought we should show a scene of them getting married though it may be necessary since during the ending we see their children anyway, but I guess it could be slotted in there somewhere...
@@CatherineUmbreon96 Aaaa thank you!! I'm happy more people are reading this! I personally don't write fanfictions haha, only come up with plots and synopses for series (like cartoon, video games) I come up with, original or inspired by an existing series I'm sure you could find some external links to other profiles in my UA-cam one?
I personally would have much preferred if the message of the final movie was more along the lines of: "No one can change the entire world, but with work and sacrifice we can ALL push it in the right direction."
@@dragozillasaur813 Ok. I'm happy that you enjoy the movie. Can you please explain to me why you love it? Because I genuinely want to enjoy it, but to me it's a complete betrayal of the first movie.
@@dragozillasaur813 But I'm asking specifically what it is that you love about HTTYD 3. So that maybe we can have a discussion. Because I WANT to enjoy the movie. But from where I'm standing, it undermines the entire series. Which is the worst thing a sequel can do.
@@smoldragon339 Well I Love the Light fury and Toothless' Character and I Understood why the dragons left to the hidden world, it's because if they continue fighting there would be casualties for both dragons and men, Hiccup Knows that a full dragon utopia is never possible
If they wanted to stay true to the book, then they should have made Toothless a tiny little green lizard, just like in the book. Obviously they had no interest in "following the book" when it came to that little tidbit!
When I read the book ending with the flash forward of Hiccup in the world of harmony that he created and I compared it to the flash forward of the movie I wanted to die
Im one of the biggest fans for this franchise I watched every movie and series multiple times But with all their conflicts I thought that the deeper meaning is about hiccups dream to bring the two words of dragons and vikings together But seeing him in the 3 movie giving up his dream broke my heart
THANK you. Saying all the things that I wanted to say about this movie but have been afraid to. So many people seem satistfied with it when even I, a person who doesn't always notice glaring issues with a film that most film critics can point out in a snap, was entirely unhappy and unsettled leaving the theater.. I grew up on this series. I was a huge HTTYD fan as a kid.. So when the conclusion to my beloved movie trilogy ended up being.. well, EXTREMELY upsetting and disappointing, I did my best to figure out why, after I got over my initial confusion about why exactly I was so unhappy. I mean on a basis level, from my simplistic point of view on movies, generally I just watch a movie to enjoy it. Not focus too hard on themes, pacing or anything else that can ruin the experience for many others. But with this movie? I couldn't help it. I couldn't just push aside my issues with it because it should've been _SO_ much more to me. It should've been fantastical and it should've been at _LEAST_ on par with one of its predecessors.. But it just wasn't, and I think the main problem it suffered from was the representation of Toothless, and the direct ties to the story that resulted. The idea that Toothless would just willingly up and leave Hiccup completely without a second thought or hesitation is just.. Character butchering, honestly. We see Toothless in EVERY representation of him. From the first and second movies to the various series and beyond. He is a loyal, noble and selfless creature. He puts himself in harms way _countless_ times to protect Hiccup and the other dragon riders. For him to just up and leave all of his bonds and loyalties among the Vikings behind is.. perhaps at a glance, how a real animal might act due to instinct. But remember, an animal who has imprinted on humans has a _big_ chance of returning to visit its human friends from time to time, even after being released into the wild. And Toothless is no ordinary animal. He is extremely intelligent, and very emotionally aware, perhaps almost to the level of human sentience. It's just complete devastation to my suspension of disbelief that he could even begin to act the way he does in The Hidden World. A few other characters are a bit off, as well, but the most glaring is definitely Toothless.. Yes, it was lovely to see him and Hiccup function separately and be their own unique individuals. But they don't always have to, forever. Each of them come together to make something even greater and stronger when they work as a team. A powerful bond that cannot and SHOULD not be broken by anything.. Edit: Also I'm sure there's more than a few plotholes. But the biggest one coming to mind for me is that there is NO way that all the dragons across the entire world heard of and agreed to join in this sudden migration into the Hidden World. How would they possibly know? I don't think Toothless is _that_ powerful of an alpha that his control can reach across vast oceans and call up all the wild dragons that dwell on all the islands and continents of the world.
I really hated this movie. sure it's not that bad on it's own, but Toon Ruins is right when she says that it really doesn't fit the themes or the spirit of the rest of the franchise. it really is wasted potential
Personally I feel like the main issue with the last film was that it was always supposed to and going to show why dragons are no longer around. It's just that the reason the film gave us didn't work. The villain didn't seem threatening enough to warrant it mainly because in the end the good guys still won. Had they lost that would've been a different story as the dragons would've had to flee in order to survive, but I feel like thats a good enough explanation rather than the one we got. Not to mention that in the previous two films the final act was always an epic conclusion to the story and the third simply couldn't live up to either the spectacle nor the climax of the past movies.
I was so disappointed with this move, when leaving the theater. I didn't really want anything out of this movie other than for it to wrap up one of my favorite animated trilogies in a satisfying way, but I wasn't expecting it to just reject the message the first two movies spent building.
Richard Hamilton did say that Toothless would have returned to Hiccup, even if the Rumblehorn incident hadn't happened. As he put it, Toothless was in the honeymoon phase with the Light Fury.
First of all, they should have never had the Lightfury be Toothless' mate. First movie was all about how Toothless was supposedly the last nightfury, and Grimmel hunted them down as we learned in the 3rd. But they also mention that Nightfuries are the most intelligent dragon species, so who says the Nightfuries wouldn't just go into hiding? Not to mention, but the Hidden world seems like an ideal place for Nightfuries, not Lightfuries. I feel like it would have been so much better with a female Nightfury leaving the hidden world and running from Grimmel, Toothless finds her lost and hurt from Grimmel attempting to kill her. Immediately Toothless would fall for her because it means saving their species to him, and just overall she is special because she is the "last" female nightfury. Hiccup would probably be in shock and try to help her, but instead she tries to run away, in fear that Hiccup was the same as Grimmel. Toothless follows her and finds the hidden world, meeting the other nightfuries, he was asked to stay forever but said no and asked the female Nightfury to come back with him and let Hiccup help her heal. She is hesitant but agrees, saying goodbye to the other Nightfuries for the time being. On their way back they see signs of Grimmel but never see him or any of his active boats. They reach New Berk and Hiccup names the new Nightfur, lets say Dusk. Toothless tries to tell Hiccup about Grimmel and what he did. Hiccup does not understand and just thinks that Toothless is acting odd because of meeting a female Nightfury. Time passes and Dusk leaves back to the Hidden world without Toothless knowing. Toothless can't handle not being with Dusk so he flys away to find her, only to run into Grimmel who has captured her. Toothless quickly flys back to alert Hiccup, Hiccup sees that there is something wrong and the gang follows after Toothless and Hiccup. They find Grimmel and Hiccup confronts him, thus learning the story of how Grimmel hunted supposedly all Nightfuries. Hiccup immediately notices that Toothless is no longer by his side and distracts Grimmel, then leaving to find Toothless on Stormfly with Astrid. They find a boat with Toothless and Dusk both unconscious. Astrid and Hiccup fight the few people on the boat and rescue Toothless and Dusk. They leave and fly back to where the remaining part of the gang is. They explain that Grimmel had gotten away by injuring Barf and Belch. Hiccup studies the new liquid that immobilized Barf and Belch, only to discover its venom from a Deathknapper. Days pass at New Berk and Toothless takes Hiccup, Stormfly, and Astrid to the Hidden world, Toothless is greeted by the Nightfuries who have learned from Dusk, that Hiccup and his friends are friendly and can be trusted. Hiccup learns that Grimmel did in fact kill lots of Nightfuries but not all of them. Toothless has become the king of the Hidden world at this point, Dusk as his Queen, but know that Grimmel know that there are in fact more NIghtfuries it wont be long until he raids the Hidden world, so they must get to him first. Time passes and finally Grimmel has found New berk and captures Toothless, Hiccup and the gang face Grimmel but know that they can't risk the lives of the others and need more help. Dusk can feel that something is wrong and gathers Nightfuries and other dragons to come help fight with her. They all face Grimmel and save Toothless. Hiccup faces Grimmel alone and same as before, Grimmel falls to his death. Instead of the dragons leaving, some choose to stay and some go to the hidden world, Toothless and Dusk decide to live in both worlds, live many other dragons. The end scene is different, instead of Toothless and the Lightfury and their kids reuniting with Hiccup and Astrid and their kids, Toothless and Dusk are out on a different island watching their kids play. All of the sudden their kids run off out of Toothless' and Dusk's sight. They run after them, only to be greeted by 2 older Nightfuries. Toothless faintly remembers their faces, and they also remember his. It turns out to be Toothless' parents, still searching for their lost and only son. This took forever to write, but I belive that this would have been a better plot for the movie, as it answers lot's of our questions.
Your a better writer than dreamwork. This could have made the franchise complet insted of a half assed ending that throw eveything about the 2 first movies out the vindow.
That's very good, gotta admit that. I thought all the time during the third movie, that it was kinda over the top that one guy, a single person, killed a whole species of dragons. Which also was supposed to be the smartest kind with one of the best camouflage abilities. So it would make no sense that Toothless was the only one to somehow survive. So your idea complements that pretty good. But I think the riders wanted to keep him unique, so he still could have a family with the Light Fury - but be an unique design. Or that the children watching the movie could seperate Toothless and the Light Fury, which would be supposedly hard to if they both looked so similar.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who was very disappointed by The Hidden World. I also love how people complain how "out of place" the ending of Toy Story 4 was when it was built up properly from film to film, while The Hidden World completely negates the themes of its predecessors for a much more out of place ending.
I realize that this is an older comment but I'd have to disagree with you about Toy Story 4 as I believe it has the same exact problem of going against the theme of the previous movies. All three of the other Toy Story movies is the toys doing everything in their power to bring their kid joy and staying together as a "family" of sorts and it has the same exact issue as HTTYD 3, with a main character leaving the other characters they've grown to consider friends/"family" for a fleeting love interest. It makes the other movies in the franchise feel pointless. And Toy Story 4 also bothered me a lot because the villain getting a happy ending solely because she had the stolen voice box from Woody and not because the child actually loved her in spite of her flaws sends a really bad message imo that you have to change or "fix yourself" in order to find happiness. Both HTTYD 3 and Toy Story 4 fall flat because of the "i'm going to ditch my friends who I've fought to stay with throughout the other movies for a girl that barely has any screen time" issue and the contradicting morals. And it's honestly such a shame because the animation in both is stunning.
@@MokiHunter Yeah. I couldn't disagree with you more. I understand that you'd want to see Woody stay with Buzz, Jessie, and the rest of the gang, but after how much Bonnie has forgotten about Woody, they weren't going to stay together forever. Eventually Woody was going to leave and that's the cold, unfortunate truth the toys had to deal with, which is why Buzz suggesting Woody to stay with the love of his life made so much sense and showed how much their friendship has grown for each other. Every kid has their favorite toy, but Woody was no longer one of them. To me, it seemed like Woody had no other choice but to leave, be happy, and help other toys, otherwise had he stayed with the gang, his departure would have ended on a much sour note for him, just like it did for Jessie. As for Gabby Gabby, first off, she's not really a villain. At first, she seems like one, but in the end, she just wanted to be given the opportunity to be loved by a kid. Also, the message of the film definitely isn't what you think it is. Just because you've fixed yourself doesn't automatically make you capable of loving. After all Woody has done for her, she still got rejected by the one kid she wanted to be with. Which is why Woody took Gabby Gabby with the gang and help her find a kid that needed her as just as much as Gabby Gabby needed her. Instead of the film being about fixing yourself to be loved or find happiness, Toy Story 4 is a film about learning to let go, what it's like when you've fulfilled your purpose, and move on to better things. It's a scary thing that we all have to come to terms with at some point in our lives and it's portrayed beautifully in Toy Story 4. It really felt like the entire franchise was building up to this ever since Toy Story 2 brought it up.
@@RyansChannel0203 Yes, I understand it in the context of Bonnie forgetting about him, but the entire premise of the movie just seems... out of place still, if that makes sense? It doesn't make sense to me that in the third movie Bonnie would be so interested in him as the first toy of the gang she comes in contact with and then in the fourth she forgets about just him? It just seems like a bit inconsistent. Also when I said Gabbie Gabbie was the villain I guess I meant that she was meant to be the antagonist. I know she wasn't necessarily a villain but she was the source of conflict for a majority of the of the film. She didn't get to be with the girl she wanted originally, true, but I felt it would've sent a much more powerful message if she had been able to find a child that loved her even without a voice box. Though perhaps that might be a bit cliche. And I didn't mean to say the entire movie was about fixing yourself, just that scenes like that seemed to give off that message. I personally felt that the fourth movie as a whole was unneeded, because the third movie gave the same ending that you're mentioning of "learning to let go" when Andy gave the toys to Bonnie, but it made a lot more sense in the context of the other films because they were still together and their goal was still to bring joy to children even if it wasn't Andy anymore. And it wasn't necessarily that I wanted the toys to stay together or that Woody's decision in the context of the fourth film was off. In the context of the fourth movie's plot, yes it's a sound decision and it makes sense. But the events that brought him to that decision and the plot itself are what make me feel that it worked more as a standalone movie than as part of the franchise. But we can agree to disagree! Everyone has their own opinions, and regardless it was a very well made movie.
@@MokiHunter Toy Story 3 was mainly about Andy letting go and growing up, whereas Toy Story 4 was more about Woody letting go and move on to better things. IMO, Toy Story 4 had a lot more focus on Woody than Toy Story 3 had on Andy. Which is probably my biggest problem with the third film although I do still love it. I do understand how Bonnie's lack of interest in Woody in the fourth film can be jarring though. Especially how much she loved playing with him with 3, but unfortunately, that's how kids can be. Just like Dolly said, "Bonnie is not Andy." Sometimes they play with toys for a period of time and eventually get bored of them, have new favorites, and nothing can be done about that sadly. I really feel like 4 delves into how hard a toy's life can really be. I'm glad you still like the film though. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it, and I do see where you're coming from.
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This is my favourite film
Hola no entendí nada pero me gustó (•
As you can see by my toothless icon for my youtube channel, I love this series. It sadens me to say yeah I agree with this
Well, I clicked on the Community Tab of your channel to do the poll, and....didn't see a poll there for Dragons. I saw tons (and tons) of Steven Universe stuff, but no dragons.
@Toon Ruins Very few people saw the enormous amount of flaws in the movie. Fewer still made an actual video, nevermind got warm responses. I commend you for this, since most of the fandom doesn't take criticism of the third film too kindly.
I like how The light fury just popped out of no where to ruin Toothless and Hiccup's friendship, like ditching your best friend who's almost like a brother to you for a girl whom you've met for at least a day is just messed up...
this is why bros before hoes is a saying (cause this happens in real life)
she didn't pop out of nowhere to ruin there friendship chances are she had never seen a human and dragon getting along and at the end of the day toothless is an animal
It's a movie
Pretty much and anyone who defends it, saying: "oH tOoThLeSs Is JuSt A mInDlEsS aNiMal!" or "YoU nEeD tO gRoW uP aNd bE cYnIcAl CuZ lIfE sUcKs YoU dUmBaSs" is an idiot
bros before hoes rings too true
A single phrase that sums up the 3rd movie for me: "out of character". Thank you for this video. It sorta really broke my heart seeing the ending and knowing that it was just so wrong and inconsistent.
Yep. That and "contrived premise". We know for a fact from the TV series that Hiccup and Fishlegs know which habitats each dragon species is supposed to live on. We've seen them and the other Dragon Riders transport rescued dragons to the islands they belong on. Yet somehow, the movie starts with Berk being overpopulated with all the dragons that have been rescued.
Also, the idea that the Dragon Riders have become too reliant on their dragons and are basically incompetent without them is complete nonsense. We've seen the Dragon Riders operate in the TV series. What makes them such a formidable force is that each individual is dangerous on their own, and together, they become a force to be reckoned with. It's a lesson that the Dragon Hunters learn the hard way.
@@praveenvijeyakumar741 I don't know if you know that but... race to the edge has been confirmed to be unrelated to the trilogy, it has its own continuity so isn't Canon to the movies.
@@ilyassebenana3824 Yes, I'm aware, that Race to the Edge is no longer part of the same continuity as the third film. I'm actually glad that there are two separate canons for the TV series and the movie sequels. Regardless, thanks for pointing out.
I remember crying in the cinema and was so frustrated that my family seemed to like the ending. The movie was beautiful, don't get me wrong but the ending just didn't make sense to me and I felt kind of... cheated
I watched it today because I just got traumatised from watching it for the first time , the light fury feels so much like giving up better ideas to please the kids in the cinema, the villain wasn't really nescessary I really felt like it missed the greatest strenght of the first movie wich was that the whole plot was not defeating the bad guy but there was much much deeper meaning behind it. There really is no saving the series thankfully we have all the other movies and tv series (except with new ones in recent times with awful ... everything idk why it happened it's a disgrace). The thing that bugged me the most is as you said the ''out of character'' part, first of all why they kept going to the bad guy getting hurt and running away all the time it felt frustraiting second of all the elephant in the room Toothless being horny out of his mind for some badly design female version of him and just leaving Hiccup and not coming back to him like he never was there, when I watched the first and second movie it just felt so right and so complete , in under two hours they really made a masterpiece in all aspects but the third movie just feels violating and disrespectful I honesty wish it was never made and we were still waiting for it to be done to this day so maybe they'll come up with better plot, such a waste to one of a kind series....
I remember asking myself "Wasnt the whole point of this series to prove that dragons and humans can stay together in harmony forever? No matter what?" Very disappointed with the fact that they just hid away.
@@clutchthecinnamonsergal8493 um yes it was. For the past 2 movies and tons of shows HTTYD had hiccup had always reinforced that humans and dragons can live in peace. Heck! In the TV shows almost all of the villains turned good thanks to hiccups compassion and showing them dragons are good
@@MegaBond101 Yes and no. I mean, the films were always supposed to be about dragons in the time they existed, before they disappeared in Hiccups' lifetime. They were always meant to go, they were keeping that from the books. Maybe it didn't work as well as some people would've liked, but it was always the intention.
@@jadedawes2556 "always the intention" and where was the foreshadowing of that? When has hiccup or anyone of the characters ever said "we need to get rid of the dragons soon" where was the hinting that the dragons might go into the hidden world at? Exactly. HECK even dean deblois confirmed in an interview that this was not how the third movie was going to be. Originally there was no grimmel but there was drago and he actually turns good and helps hiccup. The dragons don't even go into the hidden world. And even in the books there is forshadowing. However the shows and movies are nothing like the books. The only similarity is that the characters have the same names. In the books all the dragons were able to go into the hidden world(there wasn't even a world they literally went south and disappeared into the sea) because all of them could camouflage and had gills to breath underwater. Meanwhile the dragons from HTTYD like the speed stinger, cavern crasher and so many more that cannot leave their island for obvious reasons would die. Not to mention unlike the books, literally no dragon in the movies knows where the hidden world is. Heck hiccup and astrid had to use stormfly to find the hidden world and even then it was by accident so imagine how many other dragons around the world trying to find it would struggle. I do think hiccup leaving toothless could have been epic if it was done nicely and had previous planning in the other movies if they had "done this from the beginning" personally I don't buy this excuse since many directors and writers have used this excuse even though it's obvious they had no idea what they were doing *cough* Game of Thrones *cough*
I would have appreciated it if the third movie the dragons leaving to the hidden world was a global event somehow and not just the dragons of Berk leaving because there are millions of dragons outside of Berk and which dragons leave? Only the dragons of Berk. Other nests of dragons have their own alphas and while toothless was able to take his group to the hidden world, like I said before every other alpha and normal dragon had no idea where it is. not to mention Berk is left defenseless since their dragons are gone and the warlords could send a scout, see they don't have dragons, and use their captured dragons to attack Berk easily. Somehow that didn't happen for some reason but anyways this is my rant and there are so many more issues it's still far from over but I will stop here
@@MegaBond101 It's not anyone getting rid of them at all. In the series, the dragons just mysteriously disappear and people don't know why, but they're just a myth now. I assume it's to link it to our world as we don't have dragons like that.
I never said they did it well, I honestly haven't watched the last film, just that it was their intention from the start, so what some people interpreted wasn't what they intended for them to interpret, but that isn't the viewer's fault.
@@MegaBond101 Yeah, I see where you're coming from. Honestly, I don't like it because they started riding dragons and then dragons also disappeared within Hiccup's lifetime. At least in the books, they've been riding them for hundreds of years before that. It just seems so out of place and weird how fast-paced and rushed it all is...
Y’all. Can we just talk about something real quick. So You’re telling me, that in the actual ancestral home of Dragonkind, there wasn’t already an alpha? Like, not even an “in charge placeholder” type dragon? I mean, toothless quite literally waltzed in there, perched on a rock and every dragon there automatically established him as the alpha, without any prior knowledge of him at all. We’re talking about an absolutely unknown dragon here, alpha or no, and there’s just zero resistance, he didn’t even really introduce himself, and certainly didn’t prove himself worthy.
I know I am like 1 year late, but Toothless didn't have to prove himself again. He already did once in the second movie. "Every nest has it's queen, but this is the king of all dragons." - Valka. This is what she said about the Bewilderbeast, but Toothless defeated Drago's alpha and that made him the king and I'm assuming all of the dragons or at least most of them loyal to him. That's probably why he didn't have to introduce himself. It's just my opinion though.
@@annakarakoleva8533 that still doesn’t cover the fact that the hidden world is NOT part of Toothless’ nest. Berk and it’s dragons were his nest and the hidden world is full of dragons that simply had no way of knowing who he was or what he’d even done. Sure the bewilder beast was there- and maybe he had become their alpha and simply stepped down in toothless’ presence- but that’s not stated or shown at all.
The Mary Sue armor in the third movie is not good storytelling. We shouldn’t have to sit back and guess as to why Toothless was selected king outside of “it’s toothless”. A small moment of the bewilderbeast literally stepping down and bowing and having all the dragons look upon toothless in confusion a moment before bowing would have done wonders.
Point is- for all these unknowing dragons he’s never met- yes. He would absolutely have to prove himself.
@@annakarakoleva8533 toothless might've not needed to prove myself he did needed to prove himself because he was a new kingdom hidden world of dragons and saying that there's five other light fury's and only One night fury toothless would have needed to prove himself worthy to be an alpha it's kind of like a male lion when they go to take over one lions pride the other male lion tends challenge the one male lion to take over its pride to prove himself Worthy
i think the light fury was the alpha of the hidden world and when toothless became her mate he became the king/ alpha of the hidden world
I just assumed the Bewildebeast was the alpha of the hidden world to be honest.
I really don't get how Grimmel supposedly killed all night furies, he couldn't have killed all night furies on the entire planet in his lifetime. Also how they just didn't show other night furies is just dumb, how does the supposedly most intelligent species not hide away from Grimmel. They should've said that he killed as many as possible, but not all of them, as that just wouldn't be possible. I like the idea of a light fury but a female night fury would've been better imo.
well, that’s what grimmel believes and what he has told everyone. nothing wrong there.
@@williansouza8724 you are right, he did said that, but there were no actual evidence
How do you proof that the specie is completely wiped out, again?
@@tarena397 that’s my point, actually. we’ve only got grimmel’s take on the matter (and those other random vikings, but their takes are also grimmel’s), and he believes he killed almost every night fury. it’s kind of that whole unreliable narrator trope.
you know, before the third movie came out there was a theory that the Night Furies were from a warmer climate, based on the fact that Toothless sometimes lights the ground he’s gonna lay on on fire, and no other dragon does that.
my headcanon is that grimmel might have killed almost every night fury in that region of the globe (berk is kind of in the middle of the Norwegian Sea, right?), but there are others in the continents.
@@williansouza8724 mhh good point
Honestly, Light Fury was a really bad idea. Not only wasn't she as intelligent and adorable as Toothless, she had no personality apart from distrustful/aloof and was more like the creators never saw a woman before and went "we'll make a dragon but white and pretty cuz it's a woman. Also aloof and needs to be chased cause woman". I wish she had at least personality... Or maybe a bit more characteristic, nice design!
The thing is, the whole "There were dragons when I was a boy..." was a strong theme in the books, with an odd Hiccup starting each book with similar openings, then it going into the stories of his childhood. A massive part of the plot and storytelling style of the books was the lead up to the explanation of why hiccup, the narrator, no long has toothless and his other dragon Windwalker with him. The movies has no such premise or theme and only people who read the books would connect with the ending in any way, but it's ridiculous because the movies and books are so vastly different that there's no reason to link them at all.
Well, yeah... In books he wasn't the one who tamed them. But in movies it is like... dragons were around 10 years or something?
Also I didn't even remember that, so I couldn't connect. Maybe because drangons weren't such a big part of the books too, Hiccup spend with them less time he spend with other ppl, he has his own adventurers
i would correct something, toothless in the books remains with him, is the other dragons that went to another place. A place that isn't specified in the books
God, just by mentioning Spirit you opened my eyes to how great the love story between toothless and the lightfury _could_ have been, talk about wasted potential.
....it was a story about the toothless and the dragons getting a safe home to raise their families. romance was a subplot...not the main plot.
@@LilyUnicorn neither was Spirit, with its main theme being freedom. But their romance subplots were handled very differently and Spirit’s was better
Yeah! Super late here but- Idk how to explain it, but the Lightfury just didn’t have a “voice” to me?? Like Toothless very much did, but I just didn’t feel hers at all.
@@LilyUnicorn so was spirit and rain’s relationship, but they did it better
Agreed
I hate how Hiccup’s selfless love for Toothless is treated as clingy in the third movie. Their relationship wasn't portrayed in this way in the previous movies. Deblois lost his mind. Since when was Toothless a captive? What "freedom"? Toothless is Hiccup's equal and he CHOSE to be with him, because he loves him =_= Their beautiful relationship is not toxic. All because plot, they must be separated forever and other nonsense =_=
You say this because you're a HTTYD 2 Purist. But it's just your opinion
True. They are stronger together, yet the third movie basically says "well no, your dependency is bad, you should give it up", like the heck? I also thought that overpopulation was the core problem of the third movie? I dont get it
@@anfani6839 Of Course you don't because you're a HTTYD 2 Purist
@@dragozillasaur813 If this is the only argument you can bring up to make your point clear than you have already lost this discussion and debatte by default, sorry.
@@anfani6839 Guess you seem to forget that art is subjective, also People are not wrong for Defending HTTYD The Hidden world
Ya'll are gonna tell me not one dragon stood up and was like, "I'm not leaving. I'll fight Toothless it I have to." Not one of those many dragons bonded so much with their rider that they refused to step foot off the island? UNREALISTIC!!!
Exactly!!!
Right? There had to be AT LEAST one, come on
@@DoiInthanon1897 toothless is the alpha, so he can liettraly make those dragons leave their riders even against their will, kinda dark to think about...
@@ilyassebenana3824 It is indeed.
They really expect me to believe the crazy dragon lady’s dragons left her to go live in the wild. Those dragons looooved living with her. They get endless treats, pets, affection, going back to the wild was like leaving a mansion for a townhouse.
I’ve always felt that hiccup and toothless’ bond was a lot like that of a disabled person and their service animal. Honestly as a disabled person who had a service dog going in to see the hidden world it felt super rough to see this idea of the natural order keeping them apart felt like a punch in the gut. I also felt it was super inconsistent.
@WillFanofMany He didn't suddenly regrow his leg...
I felt the same way. I didn’t like how they handled it at all.
Something I also don‘t like, is that Fishlegs and Heathers relationship completly dissapears in Httyd 2. As like it never happend. I‘ve had ship them. (Sorry for my bad englisch. I am not from an country where englisch is the main language.)
@@dm_dude Well they never had a clear romantic interest in each other whereas Hiccup and Astrid did from almost the very beginning.
@WillFanofMany Hiccup still has is metal leg
Canonically, speaking form the themes of the series, I don't understand why Toothless would love the Light Fury. Toothless was always shown to have almost human-like intelligence, being a deep and empathetic being. The Light Fury was just something that looked like him that he found pretty. If he had gotten to know her and seen a depth within her that reflected his own, I'd understand; but instead, he falls for her instantly at first sight and desperately does everything dragonly possible to get with her. Even with Astrid and Hiccup, as cliche as their relationship was (being that the male and female lead fall in love because they're a male and female lead), they bonded through their love of dragons and solving problems for their people.
To me, the Light fury was just a shallow instinct driven homewrecker. She did save Hiccup's life in the end, but that was it, and he had saved her first as well as being a close friend of Toothless. Even if the writers say she shares the deep sense of empathy that Toothless has, we should get to see that for ourselves instead of 'Dude trust me'. At the very least, the love theme should have been one of "You're like me on the inside, not the outside, and that's why I can love you." Looking Cloudjumper, he and Valka bonded and we got a sense of depth within him after he gently interacted with baby Hiccup and showed a harmless curious nature to Valka, seemingly understanding that she was his mother and had no intention to harm him. Yes she had a weapon, but he was by her offspring and she halted as he stepped away and focused on her instead. The Light Fury immediately ran away from or attacked any human that came near her. Yes she was wild and had been captured by humans, but she didn't give off a deep or gentle vibe unless around Toothless.
Her fear and disdain for humans seemed simply from a wild animal rather than an abused animal. She jumped to conclusions when she threw Hiccup from Toothless' back instead of observing to see if he was in danger after having seemingly been following the hundreds of dragons being peacefully ridden for a while, which is arguably justifiable in the sense that she was looking out for him, but Toothless kissed the ground she walked on so much that he just smiled at her and shrugged it off. His best friend that nursed him back to health, that he risked his life for multiple times, that he took an alpha position to protect, was nearly killed by a dragon he just met, and. he. just. smiled! What's his motivation for Hiccup? Best friend who spared his life, let him fly again, and freed him from his enslavement. What's his motivation for the Light fury who had just almost killed this best friend? She's pretty and the very first Fury he's seen as an adult. Every other dragon that's ever threatened Hiccup, Toothless has dealt with, no matter what the odds against him were. This thing could instantly crush an opponent of his size with one step or has an army of hundreds at its disposal? No problem. This thing is pretty? BIG problem.
The best analysis of the issue at hand. I have not watched it yet... but I will likely not like it if I do as I find the idea of the dragons having to hide away because of a few bad eggs, as we always will have in the world, wanted to hunt the dragons.
Not like Berk couldn’t keep on training to fight against such problems. And besides as said by the video after relying on the dragons for 1-2 decades I am sure their skills in other areas have started to fade due to what they had in spades with the dragons. As Berk seemed to be a place of muscle to start, then it was a place of working with dragons. So the muscle just changed hands even if it is depicted as the Vikings still being strong.
So it would be hard for Berk to survive without the dragons, with the dragons being around for so long, and the older generation that was the guides, likely passed away so that knowledge was no longer around. Not that Berk couldn’t adapt again it just seems like a hollow ending from what I have heard.
@@cursedimageseveryday5559 That's the problem. Toothless adored the Lightfury because she's pretty. Hiccup spared his life, restored his ability to fly, liberated him and all the dragons from the Red Death, and became his best friend over time. The whole series was about seeing the 'humanity' and intelligence in dragons, and defying social normality for friendship and togetherness. After everything, after growing up with Hiccup (in the second movie, Valka noted that Toothless was at a similar maturity to Hiccup at the time, meaning that he likely was or was very similar to Hiccup's mental age all along) and being his best friend for over a decade, he practically worships another dragon and is completely willing to leave Hiccup forever; and why? Because... she's pretty. He knew her for the accumulative time of a couple hours before he was ready to ditch his best friend with hardly a goodbye because he found a pretty girl (as stated in the video, he came back to Hiccup because he was caught in the hidden world and had to be rescued, which then led up to the attack by Grimmel). It would have been different if the Lightfury showed compassion and humanity and he realised that she's like him mentally, but no, she was like him physically, and that's why he was ready to completely leave his entire old life behind.
What also gets me is another point in the video that not _one single_ dragon stayed behind with their trainer. Not a single one. This shows that they were all willing to give up their close friendships to essentially live wild again because, as the movie justified, there were bad humans in the world. What the heck?! That's like a person leaving their best friend because murderers exist in the world. The whole series was about working TOGETHER against bad people, uniting good people and dragons, and saving dragons from bad people TOGETHER.
The whole movie was like a bad fanfic and defied nearly every theme in the series. You might know about the 'Dragons: Race to the Edge', and if you've seen it, you might recall an episode called 'Total Nightmare'. In that episode, it was believed that Hookfang heard a female Monstrous Nightmare's mating call and was willing to abandon everyone to go live with her. Everyone feared their dragon would run away too, but they never did. It was later revealed that the female's call was one of distress and Hookfang merely wanted to help her defend her eggs from a rival male who wanted to destroy them. Hookfang was still very much bonded with Snotlout, and showed sadness when he saw that Snoutlout thought he was being abandoned. In the end, Snotlout and Hookfang defeated the rival together to save the eggs, and Hookfang returned to everyone. The entire message of that episode was further affirming that friendship is stronger than natural instinct to live in the wild, and dragons aren't just some animals that run off to a potential mate to leave everything at a moment's notice.
The third movie spit in the face of that episode and everything the Dragons series was built upon. We're also led to believe that, as the movie stated, 'The world believes the dragons are gone if they ever existed in the first place'. What? Every single dragon on Earth (not just Berk) saw Toothless as their alpha, and just left their homes/potential trainers to live in the hidden world? It was shown that people even far away from Berk lived peacefully with dragons, and people trained them off of Berk after seeing what the Berkians did. (I haven't seen all the episodes, but if it wasn't shown, is it really a farcry to say that other people trained dragons too?) So, this movie is telling us that those dragons just left their trainers FOREVER without context or warning because Toothless (the catalyst of this prace among humans and dragons) said so?
In the end, friendships ment nothing. Every dragon left their trainers, homes, their old lives because there are wicked people in the world. This movie works good as a stand alone movie, but being the closing of an entire IP spanning over several movies and episode series? No way. The ending was horrible, and only served to say that friendship means nothing, your friendships come last when you find a potential Significant Other.
The only good aspects about the movie was the music, animation, and Grimmel plot. And might I add another tidbit, why the heck was Snoutlout constantly flirting with Valka? She's old enough to be his own mother! Why did Fishlegs and the girl twin (I forget who's who) get together? She showed slight interest in the second movie, but she hit on any guy her age. In the 'Race to the edge' series, she and Fishlegs thought they accidentally married and Fishlegs was very relieved that it wasn't so. We're expected to believe that they got together because he's a guy and she's a girl? Really?
Legacy
Holy crap, both of your comments summed up my feelings perfectly, especially that bit with “Total Nightmare”.
*claps slowly and then increases in speed*
Couldn't have said it better.
@Trvrr Zbsky See I would've been fine with Toothless leaving everything for her because he finally found someone like him, but the rest of the light fury species were completely ignored?? He stuck with the first dragon he saw and we didn't get to see him bond and feel at home with the other Furies and so it made it feel cheap.
There’s a lot of issues with httyd 3, one of them being the concept of the hidden world. What about dragons that can’t fly? Would they like ride with other dragons or just fall into the hole and die?
Also, it’s impossible that all dragons would get along. They would kill each other, eat each others eggs and it would just be a massive battle royale.
There’s so many different dragons too! Would there be a snowy part of the hidden world for snow wraiths, a water part for sea dragons, a sandy part for sandbusters, a volcano for eruptodons and a vanaheim copy for the senitels? And buffalords who doesn’t want to leave their place, what about them?
Dreamworks really didn’t think this through.
@Everyone is WRONG
I know right?? There is no way in hell the entirety of dragons just disappeared in this watery shit hole. It also bothers me a lot that they claim it's the safest spot in the world, yet the light fury was captured by Grimmel before, even thou she lived there - meaning the dragons go up to the surface once in a while; which is also further proven by Toothless and his family chillin in some shore on the ending of the third movie. They absolutely did not bother to explain the hidden world to the audience, they could not even give a reason why the vikins SHOULDNT be able to move in there; this is just some poor writing
What's even more dumb is that they make it sound like EVERY single entire dragon in the world went to the Hidden World. The setting is set in Scandinavia which is just one part of the whole world. I guess all the Scandinavian dragons went to the Hidden World but what about dragons that are not even living in the Scandinavian region. Let's go back to 2nd film and point out Drago: Stoick called him a stranger from a strange land, even though they never flat out say where Drago is from we can easily tell he's from a more Southern, warmer and exotic land nowhere near the cold Scandinavian region because of his tanned skin, dreadlocks and accent. Also the art book said the sun emblem on his belt is meant to show he's from a warmer climate. Remember what Drago said? He said his village was burned and massacred by dragons when he was just a child. If Drago's village is in a completely different region nowhere near the one this series is set in then it's pretty obvious that there are dragons living in other areas of the world. Also it sounds like those dragons were flat out merciless. Hell we don't even know what sort of dragons they were. They could be some species we haven't seen yet that are not native to cold regions and actually have a taste for human flesh or are just flat out evil. Are we just gonna ignore that there are probably still loads of dragons living outside the Scandinavian region and some of them are probably still untamed going around massacring villages and making people go through the same trauma Drago went through and flat out started his dark path and sooner or later it's gonna happen to someone else and history repeats itself?
@@robonaught I agree except for the "those southern dragons may be evil" part. If you look at the start of the 1st httyd movie it kind of looks like what Drago described: Dragons burning down the village, looting food, being responsible for torn of limbs of the people there and yes, also killing hundreds of them, even if not shown in the movie. I don't think that there are evil dragons, this was also said by Valka in the 2nd movie btw. Maybe it's another dragon queen that made them do this, maybe the human dragon relationships became more and more hostile as each partie was trying to survive. But you're right about the rest, the hidden world was just a lazy solution so that they could make this a "look kids, imagine if this movie was reality and dragons really still exists, they're just all hidden away"-moment
@@robonaught And even if all dragons from Scandinavia went into Hidden World dragons from surrounding areas would slowly migrate into since there is no competition
It seemed like just the ones on berk went and Berk didn't have certain types
My biggest personal problem with httyd3- and _trust_ me, I have a _lot_ of problems with this film- but my biggest problem is that they erased Toothless’s disability when it became inconvenient for the plot. His tail would need maintenance, for gods sake. Making it automatic? Making it black and spotted with scales? They just… genuinely, straight up, _erased_ it.
Another issue I take with the tail is that according to Dean when they reunite at the end of HTTYD3 Toothless has forgotten his old life because it's been 10 years. But any time he were to look at or see his tail he should notice the attachment strapped to it and remember Hiccup. You can still see it.
that and they also completely seemed to forget that valka had a bunch of disabled dragons that couldnt survive without humans. the writing was horrible in this film. they ignored so much of their own lore
@@justarandomchick767 omg yes
@@justarandomchick767I think one of the worst examples of that is when they tried to get us to believe that "night furies can't survive in the cold" when we've been watching a night fury thrive in a blisteringly cold environment since 2010. I mean he tanked a Bewilderbeast ice blast for god's sake. Just so many weird and convoluted inconsistencies.
I have a lot of issues with the film too, but yeah one of the things I hated the most (besides revealing the biggest anticlimactic conclusion to whether or not Toothless was the last of his species and why) was that they A) destroyed the messages the first films had (think of Hiccup’s outro narration from the second film; “We may be small in numbers, but we stand for something bigger than anyone in the world can put against us. We are the voice of peace, and bit by bit, we will change this world. They may have armies and armadas, but we have our dragons!” To the conclusion of the third movie; “I was wrong, humans and dragons can never live in peace because there will always be bad people who are gonna want to kill dragons so it’s best that none of us live together in harmony. Just leave, you’ll be safer that way”), along with Hiccup and Toothless being perfectly capable of doing stuff and being badass despite both being disabled, and B) that they ruined Toothless’ character completely and named “domestication” (I’m sorry but he’s Hiccup’s FRIEND, not his dog) and “instincts” (to breed, apparently) as excuses to turn him into a creepy, slobbering dog- version of himself. The Light Fury was a boring plot device with an even more boring design, but at least she was sleek, cunning and cat- like; like Toothless used to be.
The fact that they just got rid of all dragons seemed really unnecessary to me, especially since it seemed like such a good ending when the lightfury finally started trusting hiccup. For me hiccup kind of got across like: It's better for my dragon if I let him go, so instead of just me losing mine, how about they all leave? It also ruined things for me a bit when toothless and all other dragons just left so easily! After all that they've been through are you telling me than NONE of the dragons bonded so strongly with their human that they wouldn't want to leave? NONE of them? So much for that unbreakable bond and loyalty from the first 2 movies...
I know I am 1 year late, but Hiccup was saying his goodbye to Toothless and the rest of the vikings decided to do the same, he never told all of the dragons to leave, he was letting only Toothless go. And no one said that it wasn't hard for the dragons to leave their humans or that they didn't want to stay, but they were going to be safer. Plus Toothless is their king so they are loyal to him and respect him. And before someone says that they could've fought to stay together, they did. But there was always going to be someone trying to destroy what they have accomplished - the progress they have made between dragons and humans. And they do have an unbreakable bond. Take for example Toothless and Hiccup - at the end of the last movie they meet each other again after years, yet they still have so much love for each other. Also, I agree that it would've been a good ending if the Lightfury had stayed there and the dragons wouldn't have left, but I feel like this ending is better, because it sends a message that people need to change and become better to deserve something so incredible. This is just my opinion though.
@@annakarakoleva8533 Thank you
@@annakarakoleva8533 he also said that humans weren’t deserving of dragons yet (selfish) and like by trying to present them as extinct/ nonexistent doesn’t make sense since that would destroy how so many people already had trust and love for them so then after discovery would have to restart from uncertainty, not to mention the lack of clarity about some other islands. Plus they showed Toothless’ family visiting Berk as a movie after this meant to be before they sailed to visit Toothless but then he should be more confident it was hiccup before he sniffed him. I think there was a point on how some/ few parts Toothless seemed less of an intelligent being with bit little build up of love but that isn’t the strong issue to me.
@@annakarakoleva8533 the issue there is they don't do enough to prove that humans are not deserving of dragons. Throughout his adventures Hiccup found a lot more people who were willing to ally with dragons than otherwise, and yet Grimmel was for no apparent reason the last straw that made Hiccup give up after a mere six years?
No means for humanity to become "deserving" is provided either, given most of humanity ends up belieivng dragons were never real. Heck, in a mere decade or so even the children in Berk don't think much of dragons until they actually get to see them in person.
If you read the books you will understand a bit better the movie's ending. The two stories are nothing alike, however, back before the third movie was even underway, it was stated they'd end the series like the books.
I highly recommend the books. They are beautifully written, the characters are solid and they are very funny yet deeper than even the movies. Especially hiccup and toothless' bond. :) That said, I love the movies as their own story.
I feel it was missing the friendship between the gang. It felt like they weren’t as close as they were in race to the edge, defenders of Berk, and the other two movies. Don’t get me wrong!! I love the whole10 years of httyd but It is missing the amazing bond between characters that has got them so far in their life.
They also barely had any character development individually
I do agree with you and with what the video talked about. I had thought of a similar ending to what was described but adding how close the gang is and keeping the villain in. Only add a reason to his behavior like they were building a relationship with dragons but Night Furies came in and freed the dragons believing that they were captured. They end up killing some people including someone important to the villain and begins his vendetta against Night Furies but hunts them down without dragons at his side. This would make him a creative thinker and manipulater to find ways to kill Night Furies which wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility due to Hiccup injuring Toothless in the first movie.
That's true too!
We don’t see them as much as the last movies
Josie Kingdom Hiccup's friends honestly just felt like background characters which is CRAZY, because they're supposed to be important
I feel the biggest problem with this movie (and I can't believe I'm saying this) was Toothless, ...and the ending. He seemed so out of character, wanting to leave Hiccup forever for some dragoness he doesn't even know that much. And Hiccup letting Toothless go like he was a pet, something to grow out of, is BS. Toothless was more than that, he was his best friend, but Toothless is like, "Ok, that's fine, I got me some tail now!"
Bros before hoes, Toothless!
I agree, it didn't feel like the Toothless who'd risked his life on multiple occasions to save Hiccup at all.
Both Hiccup and Toothless acted out character. Valka acted out of character. Cloud Jumper... All of them acted out of character! It was maddening to watch unfold.
CleanserOfNoobs also the villain sucked. You literally could of replaced him with any other generic villain and the movie wouldn’t of changed
@@Shaddiewolf As a writer...it was like someone grinding rusted metal against a chalk board whilst singing Despicito, Let It Go, and multiple of those other annoying songs to try and drive me insane.
Ever time i see a clip from it, I get flashbacks and uncontrollable just barely flinch sometimes.
It's hard to ignore the problems as a normal person, but then when your a writer and you can see all the story elements that don't work...it's a fucking shame and it feels like tortue
Haven't watched THW since February 22nd (I even went and saw it early on Feb 2nd cause I was that much of a fan of HTTYD) and I don't want to until five years have passed. It hasn't even been one and I hate 3 with a passion for the blemish it is on a otherwise amazing fantastic franchise.
@Saffra Kottke because he was grown and wanted to fall in love and move on. I hope you understand Toothless and Hiccup are the same age. Hiccup can fall in love and get married but Toothless can't?
What raised my eyebrows so much was that they introduced the nightfury as a dragon that *NO ONE* has ever faced and lived that they don't even know what it looks like. Then the third movie took a shit on this and introduced a "night fury killer". If someone already hunted night furies to near extinction then what the fuck was the "size unknown, speed unknown" for?
That’s so true lol never noticed. And somehow he managed to kill every night fury in existence. Even the ones in the hidden world
Well, in their defence, grimmel didn't live very close to berk, and for a long time berk only had longships to move people and information.
He’s a the thing is how did he know he killed every night fury? Even today with so much technology species of animals we thought were extinct for so long are discovered.
I don't think the intention is to believe he really killed them all but instead killed so many that they became very rare to find, at least around where he was@@danihi1
At the end of HTTYD 2, Hiccup says this:
*"We are the voice of peace. And bit by bit, we will change this world."*
If you are the voice of peace and bit by bit, will change this world, then why did you send your dragon friends away to The Hidden World? That isn't changing the world; that's admitting that it can't be changed. You're sending the dragons away because you think humans won't be worthy of them and won't change to be. Why not strive to maintain peace and keep the dragons, just keeping Toothless along with the Light Fury? Or, since you have the friendship of Toothless, an alpha, why don't you give moving to the Hidden World a shot? They can't be unwelcoming to humans there, as Toothless would convince them to let you stay.
Yea exactly. Basically, by sending the dragons away he admit defeat and the villains basically won with that. I cant believe how the majority of the people are totally ok with this ending and think its plausible?
@@anfani6839 Alright you..! People Are not Dumb or Wrong For Defending HTTYD 3 and the Light fury. You're just salty about her because you're a HTTYD 2 Purist.
@@primevalyautja1305 I never said they were dumb thou? I only said I dont understand why people are ok with terrible writing. The Light Fury is also a terribly written character, which is sad, cause all the other dragons are fun to watch and especially in the netflix series they had personality and fun traits. The Light Fury however only exists to serve as a love interest and you cannot call this good character writing, no matter how much you like her in the end
@@anfani6839 Oh Blow me, you HTTYD 2 Purist..!
@@primevalyautja1305 I see you dont really have arguments to defend your point of view, hm
Honestly, the thing I hated most about HTTYD3 was the fact that Toothless can now fly without Hiccup. The idea that both Hiccup and Toothless were permanently scarred and needed each other (Hiccup's foot and Toothless's tail) is completely lost for no good reason. There was even a special about this exact concept (Hiccup fixing Toothless's tail so he could fly on his own) and Toothless decided HE DIDN'T WANT IT! He wanted to keep flying with Hiccup!
I strongly agree
Also I'm pretty sure that tail would need to be maintained, it'll expire sooner or later and Hiccup won't be there to fix it
"the hidden world is only reachable by flight"
Okay, now this made me think. The httyd TV shows are considered Canon, and featured a bunch of flightless dragons. How do those guys get there, if at all? Or are they just doomed?
Something that annoyed me about the movie is the reunion scene at the end. It just seems so unrealistic, how big are the odds that toothless and stormfly show up ad the edge of the hidden world at that exact moment and not any other random pair of dragons? They clearly didn't recognize hiccup and Astrid (Dean deblois even stated that toothless forgot about hiccup), which makes it even more unrealistic to me.
Also don't forget Bewilderbeasts as they cannot fly either.
If you actually watch when they're inside the Hidden World you can flat out see Drago's Bewilderbeast amongst the dragons that acknowledge Toothless as king. Did it swim to the hole, climb onto the rocks surrounding it and just jumped down that big drop? How the hell did it survive or not break a leg or anything?
It makes no sence that toothless would forget about hiccup his tail literally would remind him of hiccup
@@kingofmonsters2063 he's an animal, still. Animals are not the brightest. If you put a collar on a dog and then set the dog free for years, it would eventually forget you too, or it would at least take some time for it to recognize you again.
@@sabis6111 yeah that works for a dog but not toothless he is shown to act like a dog i will say that but in many many cases he is extremely intelligent
far beyond that of a dog he's up there with at the very least 12 year old and his class of dragon is considered extremely intelligent
so him just forgetting hiccup just does not seem likley especially if he were to look at his tail becuse of the prosthetic it would remind him of hiccup
I hate that they say Toothless just forgot about Hiccup after all of the stuff they went through.
I think they were a little too fixed into integrating "There were dragons when I was a boy..." from the first line of the books. Pigeonholing the plot. After all the things they changed in the ADAPTATION, honestly a little confusing why thwy stuck so hard to this one line.
Like, cool in theory to end it how it began, but like, if it tramples the themes of the story in the process, its better left on the cutting room floor.
Yeah. The first book opened with that line. The first movie didn't open with that (which I'm glad it didnt, because well, the opening was very good, and set up the adaptation well.)
The books explore the relationship between humankind and dragonkind, the difficult process of growing up, and the loss of places and people from childhood. The line and the whole prologue makes sense with Hiccup's struggle and the bittersweetness of the story- humans can't work with dragons yet, but humans improved their relationship with the dragons, and things can change in the future.
The movies... well, didn't have that framing device. Dragons couldn't talk, and the problem wasnt the corrupt society- it was lack of food, lack of space, and misunderstanding the dragons, solved through planning, tactics, and friendship. It was a story about stubbornness, dealing with change, and moving forward.
"There were dragons when I was a boy", while pretty and poignant for movie Hiccup to say, was a bookend in the books, something said after years of reflection by an old man. Movie Hiccup wasn't even allowed to be shown as an old man, even at the ending. It doesn't fit the opening or closing for the other two movies either...
Or as I call it, "They were too focused on their Christian the Lion reunion ending," and pigeonholed the plot.
Exactly! They changed so many things from the books that the theme of the movies became different from the series. And I seriously love the series. I still believe the best ending for the series, if they REALLY wanted to keep the "staying apart" thing, was just to set the general Fury (regardless of species) as a highly territorial and protective species, making them "protectors" of the Hidden World and mirroring that with the humans. The dragons would still mostly live underground, but would be allowed to go wherever they wanted. A soft goodbye instead of a permanent one, I suppose. Like your best friend moving to a different city.
Thing is it was originally entirely feasible that the movies were telling the story of the first hiccup, who was referred to only as a historical figure in the books. Now with the hidden world they prevent even that story being possible, totally destroying any link between the books and movies.
I don't like the fact that they chose to return to the books having strayed so far. They did themselves a favour by taking as little as possible, so to then end it as the books did had the opposite effect.
Also, I appreciate that you mentioned Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron, because that did HTTYD3's plot but so many times better.
The reason Spirit works and HTTYD3 doesn't is because Spirit's main goal was ALWAYS to be free. Toothless loved Hiccup and never should have left. It was uncharacteristic and completely uncalled for.
Actually when I compare Spirit to HTTYD3, I think of the two but with roles reversed. In HTTYD3, we focus on Toothless (the domesticated / tamed individual ) falling in love with a wild animal (The Light Fury ) which is the same case with Spirit, except the roles are reversed. The wild animal is our protagonist, and the tamed one is the love interest. Both have the same ending: the tamed individual goes free to live with its love in the wild.
To me it works a lot more in Spirit because of the way its portrayed throughout the entire movie. We see Rain and Little Creek's relationship throughout the film. Even when she falls in love with Spirit, she's still loyal to her human companion. They have a camaraderie that we see even just by helping Spirit appreciate the people of her village: they work together to tame him. It's even shown that while Spirit has an interest in Rain from the start, Rain doesn't actually fall in love with Spirit until he's learned to respect her way of life and Little Creek first.
We see Rain fly to her village and her human when its in danger, even when Spirit tries to persuade her from going towards it. She's very hesitant towards the idea of leaving her home, because of its closeness to her heart and the friends she's made. She isn't 100% with the idea of going free until Little Creek encourages her to and sets her free himself.
That being said, yeah I'm totally in agreement with you. We barely see any hesitation from Toothless at all when he falls for the Light Fury, and he's willing to ditch his companion, his home, and his entire flock for her at the drop of a hat, or at least the movie frames it that way. We really only see Toothless truly hesitate for a moment when he's about to fly off on his own for the first time, and never again. Even after they defeat Grimmel, its Toothless (by looking off into the clouds) who wants to return to the Hidden World. You'd think that after two films, they'd progress the growing apart of their relationship and still make it amiable, but no, the entire third film is rushed.
tldr; Rain was a better Toothless than Toothless, in the roles they had.
And I suppose I should also add onto this, but even Spirit played the Light Fury's role a lot better. Like her he was wild and untamed, and had justified reasons for being distrusting toward humans (captured from his own herd, ridden against his will in an attempt to be broken.) But unlike the Light Fury, whom Toothless and subsequently Hiccup cater to without setting any boundaries, Spirit is quickly put in his place for any unruly behavior towards Little Creek by Rain. Before he can win her affections, he must come to understand and respect their way of life as well.
And for a while, he even seems content with the idea of staying in the village if it means being with Rain, but he doesn't forget where he comes from and where his family is. Spirit ultimately feels torn between staying with Rain or returning home, even after Little Creek lets him go just before the village is attacked. He wants to return to his family, to his mother. At the same time, he doesn't want to be apart from Rain, but he respects that she doesn't want to abandon her own home.
I guess what also makes the dynamic between Toothless, Hiccup and the Light Fury is that Toothless sets absolutely no boundaries between what the Light Fury can and can't do to Hiccup. It's okay if she doesn't trust a human immediately, but unlike Rain, Toothless fails to lay down the line when it comes to hurting him, which does feel quite out of character for him, considering that he didn't seem keen on strangers hurting Hiccup in previous entries.
omg now i understand my reaction to this movie
Yeah they could at least develop their bond more, you know, if they bond for life then it should be shown *why* they bonded. I simply hate that Toothless fell for the light fury because she's supposed to be pretty.
Personally, after watching the movie when i did, the big thing that bugged me really is the villain. He definitely is a baseless rip off of the 2nd movie's antagonist, but he was way less interesting than Drago. With Drago, the producers were able to link Drago to Stoic and make him a villain with essence. Something we can believe that he truly is a villain deserving of the role. The 3rd movie's antagonist is introduced out of nowhere and doesn't really do anything that makes him feel dangerous. Just cause he comes out of the dark with some moody lighting doesn't make him a good villain. He is one of the biggest waste of potential in this movie.
Agreed. Imo a villain that is allies with other, newer seen before dragons and an army of Warriors that all hate Berk for some reason I do not want ro come up with would maybe have been cool.
Keeping Drago in would have also freed up so much time for development too, we already know who he is and his motivations but still had a little bit of mystery to him. We don't need to waste time setting him up, just dive straight into his reintroduction and it's already good.
drago wasn’t a good villain. he had potential, but it was wasted. grimmel was way, way more intimidating. he outsmarted hiccup and the others constantly. he was very one-dimensional, yes, but it honestly worked for me.
I still can't grasp how Drago took control of all those Dragons. At least he made for a good antagonist. Over powered but captivating. Unlike Gimmes or whatever his name was. I get he was supposed to be the brainy villain compared to the last two brawn villains, but he was just incredibly underwhelming.
Drago was the best villain for me. He's the alternative version that Hiccup could have become, had he killed toothless in the first movie. They're both really clever, tech savvy and know they're way around with dragons. So in that regard I think Grimmel was the most complex & challanging Antagonist
In my opinion, all Hiccup has done by giving up completely was dooming the Dragons should they decide to return. You can't understand and learn to co-exist with something that faded into myth damn it! By having the dragons fade to myth, he insured that when they return, human kind might wipe them out completely.
Thank you! It's like saying: "Well, I am not very good at solving math problems, so now I will take my math textbook, put it in the farthest, most hidden part of my drawer and lock it away until I'm good at math and then I will look at my math textbook again. Everyone would rightfully laugh at this naive and ridiculous "solution" to me sucking at math. If you're not good at it, you need to keep doing it until you are. If humans aren't very good at coexisting with dragons, they need to keep working on that until they are, not get rid of them and forget them
There are many problems with that
First human exploration might have discover Hidden World
Second humans for sure would find fossils of big reptiles with fings that date back like 1000 years ago
Third humans won't think "let's be friends" when dragons decide to come back, they will say "Let's use jets to defend ourself" going basically to square one but on genocide level
What makes it worse is that the myths remembered about dragons would probably be all of the "this dragon can eat your leg in a single bite" "that dragon can hunt you from miles away" etc. etc.
Basically everything Gobber said in the first movie lmao
Problem is
Option a) Remember and keep info- Curioud people will keep on looking for them
Option b) Myth: Curious people may keep on looking for them, but it will be a few that most of the time dont have the resources to do serious harm.
But you are right
Option a) would be better if they decide to return ://.
Nah they will return eventually just when humanity is ready for that.
That ending is not canon in my head. It's the opposite of canon actually. I refuse to believe they seperated
I looked up how the books ended and without spoiling, I will say that it certainly isn't how The Hidden World ended.
@Ryan de Winter They have to establish a place where dragons and humans can live together peacefully, or else the dragons leave or something. So basically the exact opposite of the movie.
Same. I think when I have the time I will rewrite the 3rd movie with fanart and maybe even some storyboard animation if I'm feeling fancy, and then I'll pretend that it's how the movie actually ended, just so that I can have some piece of mind. The last movie was supposed to make us able to peacefully say goodbye to the franchise but for me it did the opposite, I'm violently rejecting it and I keep brooding over how badly it was ended.
canon ending: the berkians become a travelling people and over many generations they slowly but surely spread across the world and teach people how to train their dragons
@@TheFlyfly that would be a better ending than the movie itself.
Httyd 3 feels more empty when you watch the series with it. In the series, they fight lots of people who want to enslave dragons but they keep fighting for them through and through no matter what. The series also shows every dragon rider’s relationship with their dragons and how much they love them that it is incredibly hard to believe that they would let go of them so easily in the end of httyd 3.
Exactly! And although Toothless was dependent on Hiccup until the 3rd movie, all the other dragons stayed with their riders by pure choice. They saw that this relationship was beneficial to both parties and that is why they stayed. And this beneficial relationship bloomed into beautiful friendship and loyalty, why would they give all of that up just to live in some sparky cave with no natural sunlight, away from their natural habitat and their friends(the vikings)? Make it make sense. Anyone that says that the 3rd movie is logical and great must be doing really heavy mental gymnastics just to construct hypothetical scenarios in which it still might make a little sense.
@@Luna-ny9fq very true imao
Hell Toothless wasn’t even forced to stay with Hiccup, as Gift of the Nightfury shown that even if he wasn’t disabled he would of stayed with Hiccup-
I know that the writers I think were told that the movie had to end with the dragons leaving by original book author’s request, but they could of done a better reason for the dragons to leave, like I don’t buy that just another bland antagonist that wasn’t even the worse one they faced compared to Race to the Edge was responsible for dragons and humans going separate ways like huh-
It's like they were fighting others to get power over the dragons so they could do whatever they wanted with them. Not that Hiccup loved the dragons and wanted to coexist with them, and fight for them. The "sending them away" felt kind of like an abuse of power. Because wouldn't dragons want to explore the world? If anyone has watched the TV show you know that how they interact with the wilderness is much more in depth. If the cavern was what they were designed for, then as a species they wouldn't have left.
And as we already know, they are thinking beings with opinions. So there is NO WAY 100% of them would want to live there for the rest of their lives.
@@painter-wolf I know that episode (GOTNF) but I personally don't count is as cannon because it just wouldn't make sense for Toothless to not keep the independent tail as he could still stay with Hiccup and fly with him but it would've been so much more convenient and safe in all those situations where he tried to save Hiccup but couldn't because he was unable to fly. But yes, if all of the dragons would have to leave it could be due to an undefeatable enemy like a dragon disease in the human world or something(I know that's dumb but I actually can't think of any other good reason for them to leave, it's just not logical no matter how you look at it) DreamWorks should've just paid the writer off so that they could keep the dragons if that's really the reason why they made them leave
@@jewels3400 lol true
It makes no logical sense that they would all be crammed in that specific area
Before even watching this video: I disliked how big a plot hole the last movie left. There was likely plenty of dragons above the hidden world who were just well... screwed. They couldve easily moved underground, the entirety of the inhabitants of berk could’ve fit. In my eyes there was zero reason to seperate hiccup and toothless. They could’ve easily moved below ground and kept saving dragons.
Another thing: they also broke the entire message of the first movie that dragons and viking could get along by saying “wait nevermind”. Which im guessing is what this video is about.
the message mixup was because the movie was including the book's ending. the books were exploring why humans and dragons had a mixed relationship, and couldn't get along.
@WillFanofMany How to Train Your Dragon is about challenging the natural order. Dragons were burning the Berkian's village, stealing their livestock, likely killing many of them in the first movie - but nevertheless, they learned to get along. Why would that not happen with the Hidden World? Don't you think it would make a fantastic arc, make the story go full circle? In the first movie, Vikings welcome the dragons into their homes. And if in the final movie the dragons gave the Berkians shelter when their own homes were taken, that would be a fantastic and heartwarming ending that fir with the themes.
Besides, talking in a purely logical sense now, why, **why**, would Toothless not just use his seemingly limitless alpha powers (which honestly is a concept I hate but it seems to be part of the movie) to get the dragons to let the Berkians stay? He literally gets them to shut off their life preservation instincts and go into cages, for a random hoe he found the day before no less, and you're saying he'd be unable to stop dragons from attacking the Berkians?
@WillFanofMany
1.
"The dragons on Berk burned houses down, the dragons in the hidden world immediately skipped that and used their claws and mouths."
But the Berkians ended up befriending those dragons even after (presumably) centuries of war with them.
2. "As I just said, the Hidden World is not habitable for humans, humans need a bit more than fish to actually live lives... especially in regards to physically health."
In the same way that it is not habitable for dragons either. Dragons, need I remind you, which have evolved over likely millions of years to live in the open. They likely need sunlight for their circadian rhythm to work, a variety of food only accessible on the surface, and in the case of aquatic dragons large bodies of interconnected water. Putting them back there and expecting them to survive is akin to throwing humans in the ocean, just because we evolved from marine creatures. This is a huge plothole in the movie that doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and also a big fuck-you to the meticulous and relatively realistic world of the original HTTYD.
EDIT: Also, look up "Inuit"
3. "The 2nd film was about the dangers of abuse, Toothless forcing the dragons to allow strangers to live with them would set him down a path similar to types like the Red Death and the Dark Bewilderbeast. "
I don't get how you draw this parallel. The Red Death was a tyrannical leader in her own right, eating the dragons that didn't bring her back food. This had absolutely nothing to do with letting 'strangers' live in the nest. The Bewilderbeast was raised and constantly abused by Drago, who used it to help with his plans for world domination; again, I fail to grasp what the parallel here is.
4. "Toothless ordering the dragons into cages was part of his plan, not to mention Light Fury was the Queen of dragons at that point, so the dragons instincts were to protect both their king and queen by following along."
How did she become queen? Where is this explained? Why would the dragons give two hoots in hell about her when all she has done is put them into risk by drawing their alpha away at a time of need? If they just do it because it is their instinct, then that is no better than the dragons coming back to the Red Death's nest without food, knowing they would be eaten - Toothless' decision to give up the dragons made no sense, and it is an insult to the dragon's intelligence that they follow this order.
5. "The dragons on Berk know vikings, the ones in the Hidden World do not. The dragons on Berk listen to Toothless, the ones in the Hidden World barely did."
Again, the dragons on Berk were in a mortal war with the Vikings until they started to mutually understand each other. There being other dragons who already trust the Berkians would be a huge bonus, as it is all but confirmed that dragons can communicate with each other. While it may be difficult, it is what the main theme of the original movies is about - learning to live with others, overcoming challenges, and never giving up.
I like the idea because they could have made another movie/tv show to profit more since everyone loved httyd
@@thedis-swanner3759 But that's what they are doing *anyways.* New short movie coming out soon, and I have very low expectations for it.
I agree that this wasn’t a fitting ending because the whole point of the series was to prove that dragons and humans can live together but releasing the dragons because there will always be someone in the world who will want to harm them(or use them to harm others like Drago was doing)is like they are now saying the exact opposite. Also at the end of the second movie Hiccup says that little by little they will change the world(he meant that they will make the world a place where they can all live together in peace) but when they released their dragons it was as if they gave up on their goal. Lastly it doesn’t make sense that they were able to gather every single dragon at Berk and after they released them there were no more dragons anywhere in the entire world so the ending was kind of non-sense
For me the ending felt like an excuse from DreamWorks not to make a 4th movie
I think they just took the ending from the books and slapped it onto those movies, just because. But yea, I agree.
Hiccup always believed that there can be a world for those two species together, and even Valka said in the 2nd movie that he will be the one that brings the two worlds together, "thats who he is". So its very unrealistic he would suddenly go down and give up his entire dream after 1 year. Valka was in a similar position. Suddenly she thought "hmmm maybe we cannot bring the two worlds together after all" in the third movie even thou she lived in a secret dragon hideout for 20 years...
Also why would Hiccup suddenly give up after a guy like Grimmel threatens them a little while Drago basically killed his father??? Thats a lot worse than just capturing all the dragons for 1 minute. Wtf Hiccup.
In short, they took an idealist and made him abandon his ideals. That's why Hiccup felt so out-of-character. They basically Luke Skywalkered him.
Alot of people like the ending
@@thefirephoenix872😂
@@thefirephoenix872 Well they clearly aren't paying attention to the big factors then. Like the overall theme of the series.
Honestly I think it’s incredibly unrealistic to assume that Grimmel alone killed off an entire species of dragons like the movie implied it just doesn’t make sense especially considering the hidden world isn’t assessable by humans
Also kind off a nit pick but I don’t think it make sense that toothless would be alpha in the hidden world just because he’s the alpha at berk i mean we saw in the second movie that dragons have to fight for the power to be the alpha but all toothless did was show up and he was respected by all
Thank you so much for touching on the Alpha thingy, I feel like everyone is ignoring it. You are right; there is no way he could have become the Alpha of the entirety of the Hidden World within 1 day. This shows the pisspoor writing this movie truly has
Well then it is safe to assume that's exactly what he dude.
I was REALLY hoping they weren’t going to do this. The whole thing with dragons disappearing under the sea never to be seen again. That was for the books, and it was really bad that they thought they had to end the movies the same way, when the story in the movie was nothing like the story in the books. Not even remotely similar. The books were SO much darker, that world was actually broken. Those people were actually monsters. Not only that, but the same pattern had repeated itself three times over at that point, something had to change.
Granted, as a book fan, they had me fangirling so hard in the cinema, hearing actual lines from the book being said in the movie, it was kind of awesome
BUT it wasn’t something I actually wanted, or thought would make a good story. They were never building up to that! In the books dragons and humans had been living together for Thor knows how long, and the humans had been using dragons as pets/(slaves) all that time. When Hiccup found Toothless, he was among a whole class of boys all on a mission to retrieve themselves a dragon to train to do their bidding. They were teaching him to yell at it and be dominant over it so that it does whatever you tell it to. You weren’t even meant to speak to your dragon, even though dragons were sentient beings with their own language that Hiccup had gone to the trouble to learn. Hiccup was going to get kicked off the entire island and left to die as an outcast just for not being abusive enough to beat a dragon into submission. The whole archipelago was practically built on slavery. Even Hiccup became a slave. I think everyone on Berk became a slave. It was so bad. This ‘relationship’ between dragons and humans was way too broken to be rekindled. The dragons leaving was a good thing.
In the movie it’s completely the opposite, dragons and humans have no relationship, and have not even had an attempt at one. They live in their own worlds, and fight each other when they cross paths. Hiccup was being taught that he needed to learn to fight them so that he could protect himself, because they’re horrible creatures. But he figured out that they can actually get along. The happy ending was when finally, everyone started to realise that they could get along, and live with each other instead of apart from each other, be friends, help each other out, I love that! There’s no reason why they can’t be friends, and build a word where it’s meant for all of them. They get companionship from each other, they help each other out and most of all, protect each other. It was unity. And a wonderful one.
Book = slave owner and slave relationship
Movie = unity and companionship
Like??? Whoever thought these two concepts ought to end the same way???
I mean to say that this video is perfect, very spot on. Because the first two movies obviously did say that together they can take on any enemy, and ultimately triumph because they are so much stronger as a team.
They just weren’t in a situation where they needed to be separated. The Vikings in general weren’t actually relying on their dragons so much that it was a problem, they were just making life better. The dragons didn’t feel smothered, they felt loved and had more purpose.
They really only did it to end it the same way as the books. But it didn’t have the same story at all. It pretty much just makes me sad. They made up all their own stories and weren’t true to the source material, which is okay. They made their own amazing story. But they should have come up with their own amazing ending.
you wrote exactly what I am feeling! I just finished the books and the ending really fit in that scenario but in the movies it felt like an asspull
honestly ending the movies the same way as the books was just lazy writing
This is why I think the ending of the HTTYD book series works much better than in the films. Yes, in both the films and the books, the dragons all leave, however, in the books, the vikings aren't fighting the dragons, the dragons are, in a way, kinda the vikings pets and have been their pets for hundreds of years. And, whilst intelligent, they are very selfish creatures with little regard for any life outside their own. Whilst Hiccup can appreciate them and speak their language (literally), the other vikings exploit the dragons for their own desires and treat them rather horribly. The books weren't about going against nature so to speak, they were going against the vikings pre conceptions about being superior to dragons. This all comes to a head in the last books where the Dragons actively rebel against the humans and how horribly they've been treated, leading to them eventually leaving (much slower though because you can't really migrate a whole species away from the over world in 2 minutes) The vikings are actively a worst people for exploiting the dragons, and the dragons become worse when faced with the vikings, so the whole "we don't deserve the dragons yet" kinda thing works much better.
It works for the books but not the films at all. Because in the films, the dragons weren't mistreated in the slightest.
Also i'm the books toothless never left his bro
@@isauldron4337He kinda did. In the epilogue, Toothless began to spend more and more time away from Hiccup. At the time of it, Toothless had apparently been away for a while and Hiccup is waiting for him
The hidden world lesson: If something is hard (like coexisting) ditch it and don't strive for anything. Who the hell want to do hard things?
PLUS dragons are better than humans and other live beings so they need their own hidding world… w-what, did you thought that all living beings were equals? Nah
1:20 "I left the theatre feeling empty"
THANK YOU
I literally have a stomach ache since i saw the ending of the last Movie.
@@merlin_V2 I’m not even surprised. It’s sad and feels out of place.
HTTYD 1: "If you do the work to understand each other and work with each other, you can make the world a better place!"
HTTYD 2: "Some people's minds can't be changed"
HTTYD 3: "You can't change the entire world all at once, so you should just go back to your original in-groups and out-groups, give up, and wait for it to fix itself on it's own"
Leaning *far* out of the window here but imagine HTTYD with the context of racism instead of dragons.
Blacks were portrayed as bad people and people killed or enslaved them, but eventually people warmed up to them and accepted them.
Some people just can’t accept them no matter how hard you try to convince them.
Since not 100% of the population can accept every race they should all hide on a secret, off the map island until we are ready to accept them.
That’s an exaggeration
@@shrekwesmobamboo No, it's just a summary of the movie's message. The characters DO realize that the world is slow to change, and their solution to that IS to just give up, go back to having humans and dragons living separately again, and wait for the world to fix itself on it's own. And the movie treats this as the right thing for them to do.
@@smoldragon339 i still feel as tho the real message is that you shouldn’t try to combine two entirely different species together to the point where it causes a problem. Toothless and hiccup found a hidden world and sanctuary they can peacefully survive in, and this is a solution within a solution. I don’t feel they’re giving up but just giving in.
@@shrekwesmobamboo Giving in IS giving up. The dragons cannot roam free anymore, they are confined to that hidden world. Yes, it's a peaceful place, but it's peaceful confinement. Of an entire species. Instead of fighting for a world where future humans and future dragons could live together, they decided to re-segregate their two species and condemn future generations of dragons to confinement because short-term peace was less scary. And even if you do go with the message you describe, that message STILL undermines the first movie. Whenever you combine two different groups, especially if they're two entirely different species, there's always going to be some differences. And sometimes yes, those differences might cause problems. So you work through them. You work to understand one another, and work to help others understand as well. You don't just give in and cease all interaction between the two groups entirely (save for once every several years) just because you hit bumps in the road.
I also really hated that the introduction of the light fury was like “omg toothless isn’t the only one”. Yes, he is the only one (as far as we know). She’s not a night fury. She is a different species entirely. This last movie did literally EVERYTHING wrong
Can we also talk about how bland and boring the lighfury was? like, the only purpose of her existance is to be Toothless girlfriend...I hate when that's the only purpose of a character .-. She could have gotten a good developement, but instead we got nothing
Toothless' girlfriend in the books is much better. Her name is The Stormfly, and it's really a one sided crush on Toothless' end. This has very little relation on the plot, and Hiccup has no girlfriend, either.
And I am also annoyed at the lack of character development for the Light Fury.
Well, I have been waiting for 10 years just to end up seeing a LIGHT FURY, not another Night fury(female) just imagine how much story they could take out from the apparition of another Toothless' species BUT, they didn't give, not a single clue about what happened to them, they were all hunted, that's it, wonderful way to end up the trilogy. Gosh.
Sorry for my english.
@@Valfa04 I agree, the story behind the light furies should've been better written.
And I swear somewhere through the franchise they said Night furys were very intelligent for there species? If there were why didn’t at least one stay down there. There was a variety of dragons down there and one specie of Night fury could not stay down there? They didn’t show much of aquatic dragons down there but the movie gave the feeling that any dragon should be down there.
@@rusttytoasttz In the books, dude. In the books there's no Astrid.
Tbh a more brute female light fury would represent the wild calling for Toothless itself rather than a smooth and round feminine version of Toothless
Scars would have been more visible and her agressiveness would’ve been like those mangy street cats to show how much she survived the harsh threats of natural disasters and humans
Also Toothless would’ve lowered down his lovey dovey side and not just fall in love with a wild dragon he never met that easy
Also I feel like a female Night Fury COULD still work somehow.
@RuneBlu It's essentially Yin and Yang, they should have had her be far more aggressive than she is
@@pilummurialis6490 wasn't toothless like really aggressive and violent in the first one wasn't he attacking berk so there was no need for her to be violent toothless already was
@@fishboy2831 every dragon was, not just him
@@pilummurialis6490 i know i was just saying toothless was violent as swell
Kona And Other Things except that dean wanted a plot of grimmel killing all the night furies which he didn’t toothless was still alive
i am SO glad this video exists. when you mentioned the part where humans cannot learn to change if they dont have the dragons to coexist with, how can they change at all?? absolutely spot on. this movie took everything i loved about the first two movies and crushed it.
I actually feel so bad for the Light Fury. I actually enjoy (most) of her design and there are a few special moments where a specific part of her personality shines through, such as yeeting Hiccup off Toothless without hesitation or admiring Toothless's drawing and then IMMEDIATLY growling the moment he acts defensive, or how determined she was to save both Toothless and Hiccup at the end, but she's shoehorned so clumsily into Toothless and Hiccups relationship with the sole intention to break them apart, that she becomes unlikeable.
Yea she honestly isnt too bad - the only problem is the way she was shoehorned in. AND how she wasnt given a chance to embrace Berk AFTER she was willing to give them a chance (she revealed herself to Hiccup etc. after she followed them from the HW), but APPARENTLY Hiccup just pretends like he didnt see that at the end...
I think they were focused to hard on the “we need to explain why there aren’t dragons anymore” notion. But like... you don’t? Please don’t?
Not every movie with humans and magical creatures needs to explain why they aren’t here anymore.
People watch HTTYD because of the dragons, not the realism or the connections to the real world.
If that was the case why are there only small islands? Where are the huge lands that build todays countries?
@@GurkenbauerTim Yep, would have much preferred if they had forgone any real life connection. It’s just not necessary.
Yeah the reasons felt very forced.
First it was that it was getting too crowded. They solved that. They got a bigger island. We’re all good now right?
Nope. Then it was that people are too mean. Okay? You’ve literally been dealing with that already. It’s a fact of life: when things change, people are gonna resist, sometimes violently. A major point of the franchise was not giving in to that peer pressure to just do what others want over what’s right.
But instead, they pack ‘em all up and ship ‘em down under, not only completely undoing all the work they had done to integrate their societies, but also leaving them extremely vulnerable now that so many people hated them for befriending the dragons.
There were certainly elements of this movie that I enjoyed, but things like the ending and the aggressive doggification of Toothless kinda threw me off.
People 'stopped believing in dragons' in only 10 years, despite probably seeing them with their own eyes. I have never seen a Yangtze River Dolphin, they've been extinct for _more than 10 years,_ and I still 'believe' in them wtf Dreamworks. The Stellar's Sea Cow has been extinct even longer, as has the Great Auk, the Tasmanian Tiger, the _Quagga._ We have _evidence_ of all of these, you're telling me people with specific dragon heraldry or dragon skull trophies _forgot where that came from???_
THANK YOU! Oh my gosh this is probably the hugest gaping hole in the franchise!
Well, given that the full line in the movie is "people believe the dragons are gone, if they ever existed at all", I had assumed that that was describing two groups of people, those that did live in dragon territory and knew they were real and thought they went extinct, and those that lived outside it and had likely never even seen a dragons, just heard tales of them from 'crazy' northmen.
Well only Hiccup and Astrid know the exact location of the Hidden World so no one can really go there. Its not like people forgot where the dragons went. They just don't know.
@@Jwsponky makes a good point. The way I understood it was a subtle commentary on people today, trying to speak to the imagination of the kids in the audience wishing dragons exist. I know it's in Hiccup's voice and Jwsponky's explanation makes a lot of in-world, narrative sense, but I couldn't help but feel like, being part of a monologue, when that line was written, it was intended to be directed at the audience.
Thank ye stranger
Very well thought through. I would very much prefer your version. The ending, showing Toothless to his kids, was very sweet in my opinion, but unfulfilling.
I know, I was also like "well, what about all the other Berkians? Do they get to visit their dragons too? They loved them just as much as Hiccup loved Toothless but I guess only the chiefs get visitation rights 🤷♀️
Did you ever stop to think, maybe the third movie wasn't the end? That the ending of the movie was a little hint at more movies to be coming. Watch the ending again, and listen very carefully at everything that's being said, there's a hidden message in there, try and see if you can figure it out. :)
@@inspiringothers7197 There is a hope for Httys 4🤞
@@inspiringothers7197 sadly, there most likely won’t be anymore movies to come... this series was meant to be a trilogy, so I see no reason as to why they would make more movies. We can look forward to more shorts though :) I wish they made another TV series, maybe one that is set after HTTYD2?
@@inspiringothers7197 Whatever you're reading into, that's just not true
Also what's with all these damn animated movies and absolutely NEEDING some sort of nostalgic end where multiple characters part? Why can't the squad stay together? Why does everyone hate the idea of being happy where one is?
You summed up my thoughts perfectly :p
100% agree with this. I'm so sick of "tearful goodbyes". If I wanted to be sad and part ways with all the people I loved and respected, I would just hang out irl and never watch animated films. There is a reason I like watching animated films and want to escape for a few moments! Is is so hard to ask for a stable relationship in a film that people can enjoy and find comfort in?
Because that's life. If you can't let go of animated characters that aren't even real, how the hell can you let go of real people?
Things change. People drift.
I mean, im an emotionally unstable teen girl who had no friends at the time, but when I heard how the movie was gonna end a year or so ago (that it would end how the books started) it sent me into a deep shock and depression. I know its idealistic to have life long friends, especially from your teenage years like Hiccup had, but unlike our complicated world which has people travel and go different places entirely, their world was too tight knit, too recluse to have that issue. It would have been nice to see a friendship that stood against the world instead of a painful reminder that all my friends I struggled to get and the friendships I treasured could so easily end
@Trvrr Zbsky Of course no one 'wants' to; I literally never said that. But it happens, sometimes for the best, even if it's hard to accept. If you refuse, you'll end up holding them back. This is exactly what we see with Toothless; he was going to become the literal king of dragons. If he'd stayed with Hiccup, he would have lost that right.
Once again: That's just life. Better you accept it now than to get blindsided by it later.
Another thing I didn’t like about this movies is that the question of “Is toothless the last of his kind?” goes completely unanswered. I remember watching these movies as a kid and being excited for the next one thinking I would get to see another night fury. Wasn’t that part of Hiccup’s motivation to explore and map out new land? This was completely ignored and instead of being introduced to another night fury, we just get a boring light fury whose sole purpose is to seduce toothless.
Agreed on the light fury thing and the idea I have not only gives her a reason to be the way she ( an actual backstory ) it also makes it where their would have been night furies in the hidden world
Explanation :
One direction they could have went in they could have given her skin pigmentation problem which would make her an albino night fury making it easy for humans to trap and find her which is why she is so scared of them also it would make her stand out and made her an interesting character having it be there are more night furies In the hidden world but her be the only white one or if there really had to be light she should have been the female version of a night fury extremely dangerous and poisonous to humans and other animals because in the animal kingdom the brighter and prettier the animal looks more likely it's going to kill you making her a more dangerous version of toothless having it for the the light/night fury species the male is the one that takes care of the offspring and find food at night which explains their color the female being bright and beautiful to attract a male and the male being dark to keep their babies safe, while the female is more of the dangerous protector which would also make her more vicious and cautious then the male, partly explaining why toothless is much more kind, having her design a bit more Sharp making the spikes on her back not only poisonous but painful making that the reason why humans can't ride them and if they really needed a villain the light furies could have been the dragon grimmauld was using the poison from also giving her another reason to hate and fear humans
"I left the theaters feeling empty" I have said those exact words about this movie. It's comforting finding others who have thought the same... It's unfortunate because the first two movies made me, me. And then the third movie? I hardly remember the plot, just the feeling of disappointment, emptiness, and betrayal.
I've always seen people just praise HTTYD, all of the movies and they said that it had a perfect ending. I felt weird for seemingly being the only one who didnt like it. I just didnt understand why toothless would leave him after all this time just because he found a mate??? Anyway, glad to see that i am not alone with my opinion
httyd is one of the few franchises that consistently made me cry: the forbidden friendship scene, hiccup losing his leg, the flight scene at the beginning of the second movie, stoick and valka's reunion, stoick's death, hiccup being crowned. it's a franchise packed to the brim with emotion yet in the third one i felt nothing. i didn't recognize toothless, i barely recognized hiccup and astrid.
toothless giving everything up for the light fury felt like such a huge betrayal. throwing everything they had gone through together away for such a bland, shallow character. they destroyed the heart of the franchise and for what? with hiccup and toothless' bond breaking so easily nothing that happens in the franchise seems to matter at all.
honestly it was a slap in the face, and not in a good way. this movie failed in so many ways: the characters, the plot, the villain. i don't understand how everything fell apart this badly.
it's clear they wanted to use the iconic line of the books and went against everything they had built on to do so. and the thing is- i wouldn't have minded hiccup and toothless separating, it had the potential of being really emotionally powerful, if done well. but this was so incredibly unearned, it just left me scratching my head.
to me the ending of the second movie will always be the true ending, hopeful and full of love and emotion: "we are the voice of peace, and bit by bit, we will change this world."
Yes. Someone's finally talking about this film's wasted potential.
Now let’s focus on steven universe future
Yes, one big YES
I made a whole WP book about it, my heavy opinion on Stormless, the third movie and my own AU, so I'm happy others agree with my perspectives/opinions! I was pretty surprised to find this video, let alone the popularity of similar opinions, let alone this one. Plus, it goes against the ENTIRE franchise. It makes Dagur's and Viggo's motives/plans/knowledge absolutely USELESS! And it puts the movie-short 'The Gift Of The Night Fury' in the gutter. If being the king of the hidden world was Toothless' SUPPOSED destiny, why didn't he go to it when Hiccup made him a tail he could use himself? How could he NOT find it? Or at least bump into/bring back a Light Fury? Or even get shot DOWN by a hunter/Grimmel because he was mostly hunting down Hiccup's helmet during the DAY?
I know right. After the nostalgia wore off I just thought, damn this movie wasn't nearly as good as it could've been and far from as emotional as it deserved to be.
The 3rd movies ending didn’t give me that special feeling that the 2nd And 1st movie gave me.
I believe that there are still night furies out there. In the second movie it's proven that valka has encountered at least another that is not toothless. Just because 1 guy who looks like Santa's junkie twin brother said he'd take them all out doesn't mean he did. In my head the third movie does not exist and toothless stayed with hiccup as they grew old together
Update: there is no way there is only 1 "hidden world" there have to be more than one that at least SOME night furies were able to retreat to
Personally, I think the villain is a big part of the problem of this movie. why did we need another cookie cutter villain dude? we didn't.
His presence in the movie massively dilutes the themes the series has gone with so far. the movie hints a great deal at conflict within, but Grimmel's threat takes so much screen time that there is no time to explore the themes that are actually what the movie should be about.
Remove him and focus on the bond between Hiccup and Toothless and how the Light Fury's existence upsets their balance in addition to the relationship between dragons and humans in general and we have a story about things that matter. instead we got a forgettable villain who did nothing interesting. all he did was derail the themes of the film with his magic mind control serum.
Also, that ending really, really came out of nowhere for me. I was taken aback at this sudden shift in everyone's minds to let everything they've built over the last 10-or-however-many-years-have-passed go for... what exactly?
He wasnt cookie cutter wtf? His premise is that he is who hiccup would have become had he killed Toothless in the forest in the first movie and received that adulation
Honestly, the second they introduced Toothless’ “love interest,” I knew it was going to be a disappointment
I know right? Astrid already filled the role of love interest. We didn't need another one.
anytime I find a movie of a series to be out of tone/theme and painfully bad to sit and watch through I don't consider that movie to be cannon eventhough it technically is.
@@PIB2000 i like the idea of the dragons doing romance but not in a way that kinda destroys the trilogy
*@Rainbow Strike:* same. And why does it have to be white for it to be female?
(I'll confess that for the longest time I thought Toothless _was_ female! Fishlegs calls Meatlug "girl" and I could swear I remember hearing the other Dragon Riders refer to their dragons as females too.)
@@ZJCitricAcidGraf.E.T. There are male light furies!! The light fury we see in the movie is a part of a different species of dragon related to the night fury (Like how dogs are simmilar to wolves)
11:35
I think it also draws some unintentional moral relativism into the series.
First movie: don’t kill dragons they can be friends who can mutually benefit society.
Second movie: don’t make dragons slaves for war?
Third movie: Making your friend dragons do your chores is wrong and is slavery. So let’s release our slaves.
It’s probably just me but I feel like Berk was the only place on the planet not using dragons as livestock. Berk befriended their dragon enemies and portrayed it as mutual respect. Then by the third film they (retro actively) portray themselves as the bad guys for training dragons (no toothless go... your to pure for us and society... slavery is inevitable so we must separate).
Even more outrageous is the talk (even by the writers themselves) of having to "Free" Toothless as well as the rest of the dragons. Dean DeBlois himself reffered to Toothless as being "corrupt"/impure due to being tamed (Or "domesticated", even though that's not at all how domestication works, and he forgets Toothless lived 15+ years on his own before meeting Hiccup).
The artbook argues Hiccup is hoarding them to himself, while simultaneously pointing out that the dragons visit Berk to pay tribute to the alpha, and willingly choose to stay, and that the Berkians actually enjoy this way of life, cumbersome as it may seem.
It's all one giant clusterfuck that spits on the entire franchise.
@@MizaT11 and insults the books, which actually discussed slavery, and had more reason for doing so, because the dragons could talk.
@@maggieent3215 Yeah that's right. The books had actual stakes and a lot more going on. The movie's reasoning for pushing the dragons away is painfully, miserably weak.
@@MizaT11 Indeed, the way some of those involved in the movie seemed to idealize the whole notion of "nature is only good if humans stay far away from it" contradicts the other movies so much (which idealized how dragons and humans can be better together). There is no such thing as "purity" when it comes to wild animals, they are all effected by humans, each other, and vice versa. Making those effects positive is what we should focus on, rather than outright removing all contact.
Note I think the movie itself thankfully didn't give that message so strongly, but that the writers expressed those sentiments in interviews is a bit disturbing to think about. Especially given how I recall it being said in another commentary that the ending of the third movie was supposed to be a "final ride" or something like that instead of any indication that Berk and the dragons will continue to have recurring interactions (and even outright saying Toothless had forgotten about Hiccup). And the fact remains that the movie failed to adequately explain why it was so necessary for Berk to separate from the dragons (after all the threat they faced in the second movie was arguably worse than what happened in the third, yet instead of fighting they opt to leave their centuries long home after one attack).
Well, maybe the holiday special will retcon some of this stuff. I'd be happy if it did.
They didn't make them do anything. The dragons had fun doing what they did, but the berkians realized it was too dangerous for the dragons and for themselves when there was always one evil person in the way. You people are dumber than rocks. I swear the people who talk shit about the third film simply don't have the comprehension skills past 2nd grade.
Thank you so much for making this video. The third installment of How To Train Your Dragon was such a letdown for me that I felt seriously depressed for weeks after I watched it.
The first movie teaches us that doing what is popular is not always right, and that doing what is right is not always popular. It teaches us to embrace our unique strengths, to appreciate the unique strengths of those around us, and to open our minds to change. The second movie teaches us bravery in the face of adversity, and to fight for what we love - the lifestyles that make us happy, and our friends and family. But what does the third movie teach us? It teaches us that when the going gets tough, just give up. Abandon what you believe in if it endangers you. Part ways with the things that make you happy in order to live a peacefully monotonous life of sameness and boredom.
The ending also didnt make sense at all. Why would Hiccup and the rest of Berk just simply give up? After they defeated Drago in the second movie (aka the man who practically killed Valka's bewilderbeast AND Hiccups dad) they were like "we can do anything!!!" and here after Grimmel, a guy who literally only threatened the people throughout the entire movie and captured the dragons at the end for like 2 minutes, Hiccup suddenly goes like: "Omggg this is sooo cruel! Omg we dont deserve you dragons! You should leave!"
Like what
@@anfani6839 Yeah, it is absolutely insane and doesn't make any sense at all. I hate the third movie with every fiber of my being. It frustrates me that that was the route the directors chose, and it frustrates me even more that audiences liked the damn thing. Were they even watching the same movie as us? Did they even understand the themes in the first two films? Or were they only interested in the franchise because DrAgOnS r NeAt?
100000 million times this! I despise this movie soooo very much - and it's not even that I've grown up or anything, cause I rewatched the other two movies after the third one and I still loved them to bits! I really dont understand how people can like this. My guess would be that they find the Nightlight romance to be cute and were probably too stunned by the visuals to notice all the flaws this movie has... I honestly wish I could erase this movie from existance and from everybodys mind so that I dont have to think about how much I hate this movie anymore
@@anfani6839 Even though Toothless/Light Fury is actually lust, not love. The message sent here is extremely creepy.
It’s clear you guys take fictional movies way too seriously. We get it, you hate the third movie. It was a huge disappointment for you and that really sucks. But surely, it’s not worth anyone’s time to hate something so much that’s not even real or has that much of a major impact on anyone’s life.
I think a better point for the film to have ended in would've be something like: "yes, there will always be some people and some dragons that refuse to change, who refuse to live in peace. Some will always hate what they don't understand, and don't want to understand. But so too will there be the people who see the beauty and joy and freedom that community with dragons can bring to both species. Because for every drago bludvist and grimmel the grisly, there is also a hiccup, a toothless, and a berk who saw love and put down their hate"
So basically the end point would be: community and love will always triumph over fascists/people who try to divide us, and that we shouldn't just give up even when the odds seem insurmountable and neverending
Bruh, I spent my winter break this year watching all HTTYD content in order (the movies itself, the shows, holiday specials, extras and whatnot) and wow, I just felt so underwhelmed from the ending of the franchise. I was literally saying, "That's it?" I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking this; I was feeling a little unreasonable up until this point
Me too
I liked the 3rd movie, but I completely agree with all of this.
The lack of good hiccup and toothless scenes broke my heart
I’m the same way I like it but the movie had so much potential
And the ending only made the lack of those scenes worse
@@Mythical_Being eh not sure about that for me but your opinion.
HTTYD was my first ever fandom that i was super into, years before su. As a conservationist, i find the message that humans don't deserve dragons, and that we should separate ourselves from them completely until we 'know better' is kinda bad. Modern conservation techniques are all about integration of humans and nature, learning to live side by side peacefully. Its the most practical thing to do. like, try telling a poor indian farmer to just leave the tiger alone. Httyd3's theming is a very.. 1980s approach to conservation :/
what do you think of the books?
It's as if this movie was commissioned by PETA or something.
yeah, that follows what the video said about the dragons also having the right to exist and explore this earth. it's a shame that the ending basically argues that they should limit themselves to the hidden world just because there will always be human threats; following the themes from httyd 1 & 2, wouldn't the correct theme of httyd 3 be "even though human threats to dragons are inevitable, we will always do our best to defeat them and protect dragons"? in the real world, poachers are terrible threats to rhino/elephant populations but we still do our best to prevent them from killing these animals instead of shoving all the rhinos/elephants into impenetrable enclosures closed off from the rest of the world... plus, the berkians have already demonstrated that they will do whatever it takes to protect dragons, even doing so much as LEAVING BERK. it's a bit strange to suddenly flip on that stance for this ending to the franchise imo
...uh...huh modern conservation techniques.... yes...this wonderful technique of literally destroying all the habitat in the world that these animals live in. comparing it to modern day techniques....is just...really really really really bad.
@@LilyUnicorn Excuse You? conservationists are trying their damnedest, pioneering new and effective techniques better than anything that's come before. We're doing everything we can, and somehow we're responsible habitat destruction? Not the governments and corporations who refuse to give us funding because they do not care about the environment (which was the same in the 80s). A green sustainable future is ready to go but whether the world accepts it is a different matter that is out of conservationists hands.
OH. MY. GOOOOOOD!!! You’ve just explained my exact problem with this third movie!
The first two movies had an extremely strong friendship as theme and the third one is Toothless being doofy and choses a girl over Hiccup. That’s my problem! Thank you so much for describing it so well.
Honestly how to train your dragon 3 was the most forgettable of this series. I couldn't even bring my self to remember it's villain or story if my life depended on it.
I left the theater feeling empty, just like you described. I felt like I wasn't supposed to be disappointed in the movie, because it was actually really good, but at the same time, well, yeah. It's Hiccup & Toothless. Not Toothless & some chick dragon he just found. I'd much rather have had an ending without that white fury altogether, and our favourite pair staying best buds til the end, much like you. It's a shame, because they were my favorite animated movies, but now it's over forever, and we're just left with a bittersweet ending.
i thought the vikings would move to live and protect the dragons in the end of the world, the moment they showed the caves you could just IMAGINE how weird and beautiful the city would be. The art direction in HTTYD is usually amazing. The dragons are all unique, watching Berk adapt each movie to the dragons, and even their CLOTHING starts to change to look more like dragons, it all feels... natural. Which is why I have another complaint: Light Fury's design. I mean, are you kidding me? I can't believe they went with the smoother-version-of-the-male trope. Sometimes she even looks boring, even her scales are mostly gone to make her look femme-er. She could've had a design similar but just as unique as Toothless, I mean, holy crap, his design was so good everybody LOVES him, evey black cat with green eyes are compared to him, he is adorable, but powerful. The only thing I liked about her is that they didn't make her Astrid's dragon to do a double couple thing-y.
(also no joke every single viking and dragon looked both happier and healthier living with each other)
loved the video btw, I thought I was gonna disagree but your ideas were super interesting
I would've liked it if the light fury had at least 2 interactions with Astrid and the other dragons
Yes! A Berkian village in the Hidden World would look so ethereal and cool, just imagine a mix of viking longship, bioluminescent coral and dragon architecture for homes, it would work so well. Part of what I liked about HTTYD was beautiful imagery with a little bit of personal touch and roughness to it; dragons would be brightly coloured but have wattles and scars, vikings would wear cool outfits of fur and chainmail but would have a gangly awkwardness to them. A Berkian HW village would definitely fit with the franchise's imagery without seeming over-the-top or ridiculous.
Especially when Meatlug is female and looks like any other gronckle
You bring up a lot of good points. For me, the kerfuffle of a message that sticks out to me the most is that separation. If two groups who've had troubled pasts and carry certain stigmatizations/stereotypes of each other have trouble getting along, is the solution really to segregate them from each other completely until they somehow learn to get along?
Exactly - how are those two groups supposed to learn to live with each other if they don't even see one another?? Or is Hiccup expecting that magically humans will just go like, "ohhh booooyyy we really shouldnt abuse dragons anymore" out of the blue? Especially if he already said that people had already forgotten that dragons existed - so wtf was even the point?
What's even more dumb is that they make it sound like EVERY single entire dragon in the world went to the Hidden World. The setting is set in Scandinavia which is just one part of the whole world. I guess all the Scandinavian dragons went to the Hidden World but what about dragons that are not even living in the Scandinavian region. Let's go back to 2nd film and point out Drago: Stoick called him a stranger from a strange land, even though they never flat out say where Drago is from we can easily tell he's from a more Southern, warmer and exotic land nowhere near the cold Scandinavian region because of his tanned skin, dreadlocks and accent. Also the art book said the sun emblem on his belt is meant to show he's from a warmer climate. Remember what Drago said? He said his village was burned and massacred by dragons when he was just a child. If Drago's village is in a completely different region nowhere near the one this series is set in then it's pretty obvious that there are dragons living in other areas of the world. Also it sounds like those dragons were flat out merciless. Hell we don't even know what sort of dragons they were. They could be some species we haven't seen yet that are not native to cold regions and actually have a taste for human flesh or are just flat out evil. Are we just gonna ignore that there are probably still loads of dragons living outside the Scandinavian region and some of them are probably still untamed going around massacring villages and making people go through the same trauma Drago went through and flat out started his dark path and sooner or later it's gonna happen to someone else and history repeats itself?
"Carbon copy of the second movie's villain."
HA! Love it!
Except Drogo was a much more powerful villain with ten times the presence as the other dude. He was like Drogo Lite.
One of my gripes is that the light fury isn't intelligent enough to earn toothless. Toothless is shown throughout all movies and series, to be the most intelligent dragon of them all, capable of not only communicating with the riders on a basic level through gestures and expressions, but also intelligent enough to bond on a level with hiccup that he broke through his own perceived limits for his sake. The light fury has done none of these things. If she was on equal intelligent level as toothless, she would have seen as she stalked and followed toothless that him and his dragons got along with his and their humans, and she'd make attempts to overcome her fear of them. This could actually become a compelling story of her struggling with letting go of her fear, if she was given the same level of intelligence as toothless. Mentally, she'd want to trust toothless and his judgment on humans, and she'd know he's right too, cause she's seen it, but she's constantly held back by the scars of her past. (I know no httyd media ever did flashbacks for dragons, but they wouldn't have to, just show various scars on her body caused by human hunting before every hesitation in her journey to warm up to them, like how they focused on toothless' tail to communicate his hesitation and limitation). That way, hiccup and the gang could also see light fury's struggle and see how she went above and beyond to conquer and overcome her own nature for toothless the way toothless overcame his own nature for hiccup, and that way it'd be more earned and more of a valid cause for toothless to have to choose. If hiccup and the light fury were on equal levels of devotion to him, it'd be a difficult choice, and either choice he'd make would be valid.
But as it is, the light fury is just a wild animal, barely any intelligence there, other than warning toothless for a trap and telling him to go around it. And this makes the choice to choose her over hiccup who time and time sacrificed everything for him, so unjustified. Literally throughout the entire series, he's been depicted as 'above that'. In gift of the night fury, when the other dragons left to mate and lay eggs, toothless only left to retrieve hiccup's helmet. And yes, he's the only one of his kind, but he doesn't know that, and even if he did, wouldn't mean his mating cycle would just suddenly dissapear. He could have flown off like all the other dragons, only come home empty handed once it was over, but no, he prioritized helping hiccup.
That he'd just throw all of that away for the first best dragon that even looks remotely like him just doesn't make any sense.
"out of character" is the phrase for that movie. Not neccesarily a bad movie, but out of character, all of them were done dirty
Movies 1 and 2: *Strong bond that even an Alpha couldn’t break*
3rd movie: *Toothless leaves Hiccup for a girl he just met and had no intension of coming back*
Yup, sure, those aren’t a thematic conflict at all. Also, am i the only one who hated that they chose to give us a white and diminutive version of Toothless instead of calling back to the MULTIPLE hints that there might be more Nightfurys out there. I know they maybe wanted Toothless to be “One of a kind” but I think this story would have worked a lot better if they found Toothless’ family instead to mirror Hiccup finding his family (Valka) in the second movie. The one chance they had to focus on Toothless and develop his relationship with another dragon and and they chose to make it some random dragon that the creators DIDNT EVEN NAME.
Well, Look who's salty over A Realistic Conclusion to a Trilogy.
I agree with you when I left the cinema I felt like something was missing.
The ending about when all of the dragons left and separated at the end bugged me. She has a 100% good valid point.
I think it would've been better if Toothless chose Hiccups instead of going out with other dragons. He & the light furry could've literally stayed and have kids there and I don't think it would be a bad idea.
Even in the books dragons like Toothless, Stormfly etc. stayed with their rider, because they valued their bond more than some life in a watery hole. Here they just leave because Plot.
If they really had to end the movie this way, they could have at least said that the Inhabitants of Berk still had contact with their Dragons instead of „Yeah they all forgot each other lol“.
By the end of the movie I felt like Hiccup had banished the dragons to the Hidden World. Like... ain't our world their too?
All I'm saying is toothless ain't the first brother to leave his homie for a girl...
Toy Story 4 much??????
Nicholas Young W o o d y
Toy Story 4 did separation over a girl far FAR better than this movie did
@-:- HayHay -:- I thought when I saw the trailer of "I'm learning to fly" for this movie that it would turn out the Light Fury was Toothless's best friend from long before he knew Hiccup. By then, as DreamWorks trailers have a habit of spoiling, the fact that they were going to separate was already pretty clear in the trailers. So I at the time was looking forward to this movie. If she was a long lost loved one of Toothless's, how would the stakes work out in which Toothless would need to leave? Would Toothless have to choose between his best friend and his old best friend whom he fell in love with? Turns out she was just a wild girl dragon, not even a female Night Fury which wouldn't have been clear to people watching the movie unless they looked up what Dean said, who had no backstory and only existed to seduce Toothless. Seeing how she made Toothless so quickly forget about his responsibility as the alpha of Berk and want to leave for the Hidden World forever really disturbed me. Even the ending scene with Hiccup and Toothless reuniting: seeing Toothless all wild and ready to attack if needed just made me uncomfortable. I just couldn't help but think something along the lines of "Dear God, what if Toothless met a female Light Fury in the first movie after he and Hiccup JUST became friends? He clearly never bothered to visit Hiccup in 10 years for goodness sakes, he definitely wouldn't have been there to save Hiccup from Hookfang."
I never liked the idea of lightfury being Toohlesses love interest. It could be soo much more pleasing if it was just female night fury, would make more sense if toothless left hiccup for her, infact we all expected it to happen right? The super mysterious species we all want to know more about, I mean I wanna know how disctinct those genders are from each other and I was just dissapointed when I learned that there would be a lightfury instead of nightfury. It really feels like she was created just so toothless can screw. Also I think they made her look that way just to be appealing to kids, but that's not good enough for me.
I actually ( and don't judge) told my build-a-bear Toothless that he's not allowed to have a girlfriend
*picks up plastic Toothless toy* "You ain't gettin' any on my watch."
*Hugs my toothless plush and cushion* "I hereby forbid you from getting a girlfriend"
@@bunnypolaris9800 "We all know what happened the last time one of MY plushies tried to get a girlfriend..." *shows a pile of stuffing*
Arely De La Luz I did too... and then got the Light Fury 2 months later!! I also have one of their babies! 😀😀😀❤️🐉
@Brecken Smith Least you managed to grow up though, some people are adults and still collect children toys lmao.
Yes, yes, thank you.
I knew there was a BIG problem with the third movie, nearly everything felt wrong to me.
When I watched this movie, I had the impression that Toothless was in *mad* heat that's why he's so desperate and automatically head over heals for Light Fury despite her not having personality at all.
The producers with the Toothless/Light Fury really took a page from Twilight from that one, because it's exactly what Twilight did on it's day: Portraying obsessive lust as true love.
@@jorgebersabe293 It's the 21th century and some people still think shallow "love at first sight" stories are a still good idea🤦I hate them with a passion. No meaningful character depth or development. If it were a slow burn and Light Fury had an actual personality, it'd have been better. But no, they treated Toothless and her like some bloody hormone-driven animals, despite them displaying human-like intelligence and feelings :/
@@loremipsum980 Light Fury is essentially a blank slate and a plot device without any personality beyond being Toothless love interest. In other words: A draconic Bella Swan.
The problem with the movie saying "our world doesn't deserve you yet" is that the Berkians are the most deserving people on Earth to have dragons. If they aren't worthy of having them then no one ever will be.
I think the third film's ending could have worked really well, the problem for me is that it didn't feel earned. Toothless and Hickup having to deal with growing apart from each other because their lives are being pulled in different directions could have been a great a surprisingly mature way to end the series, given that this will happen in a lot of our relationships throughout our lives. The film however, didn't focus on the right things in order for that separation to feel meaningful to me
Honestly I don’t even mind the fact that the dragons left. I think they handled it kind’ve poorly, but I feel like there was still some reasoning at least. The dragons themselves were always running into conflict with humans, and the fact that Hiccup finally found a place where they could be free and safe from hunters definitely impacted his decision in the end. I also think it’s important to note that Toothless wasn’t necessarily going to abandon Hiccup for the Light Fury. It’s not known as to whether he was going to come back, but I’d like to imagine he would’ve came back to Hiccup if given the chance.
What I really disliked was the fact that Hiccup and Toothless had no contact from the moment they said goodbye to the last scene. They hadn’t seen each other for so long that Toothless literally didn’t recognize Hiccup. That just destroyed me. Like it makes absolutely no sense as to why they’d choose to not see each other for years.
It’s sad honestly. Httyd 1 and 2 are my absolute childhood and had a huge impact on my life. In fact if it wasn’t for httyd I doubt I’d be studying animation right now. So it’s painful really that the big finale of the series is just so ...meh? Like not that bad but not that good either. Oh well. At least we got two outstanding movies and 3 with outstanding animation at least.
Maybe they didn't visit so they are sure their history with dragons was lost to the world so they could visit without worrying about others following them to kill the dragons and the trip would be worthless if Toothless wasn't on the surface to see their ship. If you look closely tho Hiccup looks dissapointed for a second before the fog reveals the dragons like he did it multiple times and was about to give up and be the last time he does that trip since it's just a painfull memory at that point.
It was ONLY 10 FRIKKEN YEARS! Yet you mean to tell me Dragons somehow became myth in that ridiculously small timeframe?! I call BS.
I feel like a good balance between not changing the movie much and keeping with the theme of toothless and hiccup having a special bond is to have toothless go to the hidden world but, in the end, having him and many of the other dragons choose to stay with their humans despite the troubles they may face and for future rescued dragons to get that option- staying with humans or in protected wilds or the safety of the hidden world.
This film pulled a Jungle Book, ngl. Hiccup should've proved Draco wrong but, nope. Imagine if at the end of Kung Fu Panda 3, Po just accepted defeat from Kai. You really nailed this, man. To quote Skipper from The Penguins of Madagascar,
"Then, I reject nature!"
Also, one more thing. Telling a certain group to "go back to where they came from". Seems pretty sus.
A 21 year old telling an entire species to go where they came from without ever asking anyone if thats cool with them, too, seems pretty sus
I liked some aspects of this movie but the way they watered down Hiccup and Toothlees' relationship to that of a dude and his pet really bothered me the first and only time I watched this movie. I looked over at my boyfriend and was like "Why am I watching a dragon version of Lassie?!"
I 100% agree with you. Like, I liked the movie just because I LOVE the series, but I agree it didn’t fit the theme and that’s why it just didn’t feel as good as the others.
The thing i dont understand is that the message that they were trying to share in the first movies is the fact that dragons and people can live along together and that they should but in the end none of that mattered
Yes, the ending was totally out of place. Though I feel guys at Dreamworks got it, and are trying to decanonize it by means of Snoggletog specials. Those specials give hope that at least Toothless' family and Astrid's one (yup we all know who is the alpha there) would live or perhaps spend time together. In the end of third movie the whole "Toothless doesn't recognize Hiccup for a while" thing is honestly strange.
Toothless doesn't recognize hiccup is similar to animals in real life when they are apart from their owners for quite some tile they need to smell them to remember them, watch on internet cats and dogs that were apart from their owners and you'll see thta they take quit some before they recognize them
@@sussy-t just kidding, but - you do recognize that you are comparing a gog to a drsgon, while using term "in real life", don't you? 😂
@@hackdesigner because toothless is actually based on a mix of real life animals
@@hackdesigner the reason why thoothless didn’t recognize hiccup was that thoothless hadn’t seen hiccup in 9 years and he also had a beard
@@hackdesigner But that's what happened in the movie though. He recognised Hiccup through his scent. It makes sense that Toothless would take a hot minute to recognise Hiccup. He hasn't seen him in 9 years and he looks a lot different from the last time he saw him. He probably doesn't think about Hiccup everyday at this point either. Maybe you could argue the metal leg should've given it away, but Toothless has seen other humans with prosthetics before.
The only way it doesn't make sense for Toothless to not recognise Hiccup is that Homecoming contradicted that a bit by having Toothless revisit New Berk before the events of HTTYD 3's epilogue, so he should have recognised Hiccup instantly as he's already seen him recently.
I thought the movie would kinda have the messages, "You can't just marry someone you just met that day." and, "Bros before hoes!"
It should've, considering the lightfury's role in the movie.
That's the Frozen plot in a nutshell: Kristoff calls Anna out on her choice to marry Hans, even though she barely knew him as a person....surprise surprise, Hans turns out to be an evil bastard.
@@jorgebersabe293 Yeah, I know. I just believe that that would have been a better message than, "Give up on your dreams because they'll never work, even though it already kinda did!"
@@digthesechild-bearinghipsb2842 I understand, in fact, I share the same feeling.
Hans/Anna works because it's a deconstruction of the archetypical male lead getting the girl.
Toothless/Light Fury doesn't because we are supposed to see it as a romantic relationship....but in practice is lust and obsession.
@@jorgebersabe293 I honestly agree, I also felt like they just downgraded Toothless's intelligence for the sake of the plot. They turned my boi into a simp
@@digthesechild-bearinghipsb2842 Toothless/Light Fury isn't Belle and Beast, it's Bimbette and Gaston.
Honestly this is so well put...I love the hidden world but i do agree, it felt strange and I too couldnt put my finger on it, also the score for this one was really weird. I know each film should have its own identity music wise but this one was really strange, the final track 'Once there were dragons' is perfect tho ngl
My two cents on the situation, if you oppose any opinions I have that's fine. Beware the spoonful heaps of words, but I've been meaning to express my thoughts on this movie for a long time. I also have an alternate plot inspired from the potential ideas from this video if you are interested:
It's always kinda hurt inside how easily Toothless went with ditching his extremely close friend for a girl, a girl which was lowkey a literal plot device for the villain. This video I agree with a lot as their bond was unbelievably close. Heck, even in the spinoff movie "Gift of the Night Fury" Toothless literally breaks an auto tail fin Hiccup made because he wanted to stay by Hiccup, so to see Toothless almost instantly adjust and leave Hiccup behind when he makes a new auto tail fin just feels so off. And I mean yeah, agreed that the ending was satisfying for the movie stand alone, but unfulfilling for the whole series.
You could also probably connect the theme of bonds within the previous two movies with the concept of having to distance the bonds at some point, and yeah the movie had that going for it but it wasn't executed very well. Like sure, we did definitely have scenes where Hiccup was contemplating his life without Toothless but almost nowhere in the movie was Toothless thinking the same thing (sans the leaving of the dragons and that one part where he's about to take off after receiving his new tail fin but then looks back). Like we had no part during his interactions with the Light Fury or in the Hidden World that indicated that he was missing Hiccup in any way.
And also with regards to the Light Fury, I would've definitely preferred if it had been another Night Fury or at least a small group of them, since an undying question up until the third movie was whether they were still around. Not only would it be really cool and Toothless can help further boost the declining population of such a rare species, but it would also give audiences, especially those who enjoy revolving concepts around other potential Night Furies, the ability to run free with their imagination, as well as giving the fans the satisfaction of finally seeing some other Night Furies. And that's kinda the reason why I don't like Grimmel saying that he essentially killed all Night Furies; it breaks the immersion that there are still other Night Furies out there (or, at the very least, sets an extremely low possibility of more Night Furies) and limits the imagination of people who were probably hoping more than anything that there were more Night Furies. I mean, sure they have NightLight hybrids now but eventually (unless inbreeding occurs) the Light Furies will become the dominant genepool and the pure Night Fury species becoming extinct when Toothless dies.
Of course, the animation is stellar and needs no explaining. Like damn those sand effects are amazing, not to mention they did a really nice job animating the Hidden World and giving it that fantasy look.
And also something I've been majorly passionate about is with the music of the HTTYD franchise. The first movie integrates its music fantastically with its environment; loud, in your face, a lot of unique and traditional materials used to make the movie feel more authentic and at its roots. (EDIT - After hearing some of the songs I can safely say that it is as well done as the first with those traditional instruments, but it still lacks that loudness or, for some of them, extreme energy the first one had. It's still good nonetheless!) But in the third movie, the music is so quiet and in my eyes personally loses its traditional charm the first one had in favour for more your everyday orchestra instruments. Unlike the first movie, I never really felt a complete integration with the music in the third movie, and it was only in the background the same way Hiccup was in the background to help Toothless with impressing his love interest; he's there to help aid Toothless to progress in advancements but doesn't exactly do the perfect job. 'Exodus' especially and 'Furies in Love' are the closest the soundtrack can personally get to feel the vigour the first one had with their defined rhythm of drums and, with the former, traditional instruments. From what I can recall, the moments these soundtracks are used are integrated with their environment pretty well! I will admit I do like the Light Fury motif though, like an alternate to the HTTYD motif
Also, something interesting I've just noticed. The movie is called "How to Train Your Dragon: The Hidden World" rather than How to Train Your Dragon 3, bit curious to why they dropped the number and went with the addition of "The Hidden World". The Hidden World isn't even really seen that much, so why go with this name rather than 3? Just a curious thought.
*And here's just my mind running rampant with the ideas you've come up for an alteration of the movie's plot*
Possible thoughts for the other side of the coin would be that, over the course of many years (maybe 10? 15? Actually I was under the impression that in the third movie, prior to hearing anything else other than its release date of 2018 (before getting changed to '19), Hiccup was probably around late 20s-early 30s in age and by the end he was an old man) Hiccup could've been persuading other nearby tribes and clans that dragons aren't that bad and human and dragons can coexist with one another, so we could get some instances of trade by dragon or stuff like that. And I think the conflict brought up in the video of a clan of Vikings unwilling to listen would be really neat, perhaps this clan was an extremely well respected group of Vikings that all other smaller chains in other areas (including Berk) all got their ideas, beliefs and values from, particularly the belief that all dragons are evil. We could get some exposition backstory on how their ancestors were from this tribe and sailed the seas to various lands and conquered them all or something as well! And yeah, again mentioned from the video, their conflicts may be arising from other dragons in the vicinity, other Red Death like dragons or even a Bewilderbeast, and eventually via the help of Hiccup and his team they quell the conflict and the well respected Viking clan turn over a new leaf.
And in the meantime of this uprising conflict, perhaps mating season could be occurring like the video mentioned and all the dragons could be going to that one island mentioned in "Gift of the Night Fury". Perhaps Toothless takes Hiccup alongside with him since in the prior mentioned movie Toothless didn't want to leave Hiccup behind with anything, as weird as it sounds. Then, with Hiccup potentially avoiding the gazes of any other dragon, hiding or acting as a live catch in a comedic manner in order to not start a ruckus, maybe there the two search for potential mates for Toothless (Hiccup could potentially bring an immature (as in not mature enough to mate)/baby dragon along just in case Toothless finds a mate and decides to stay) and just when they are about to give up Hiccup spots a small group of Light/Night Furies out for Toothless. Then during the interactions Toothless finds a female that he has particular interest in, and the two can have introductions and everything. Hiccup decides this is a good time to leave and tells Toothless that he will do so in secret. Toothless is upset but Hiccup reassures that he will come back periodically to check up on him, and Hiccup leaves via the baby/immature dragon.
Then during these times we can cut in-between the two with Hiccup trying to convince the clan to get along with dragons via the baby/immature dragons they have and Toothless further strengthens his bond with the new female. Perhaps during some instances of Hiccup's periodic returns Toothless could potentially try to introduce Hiccup to his female love interest and/or the small group, with either side being uncomfortable with the process (this could potentially lead to more interactions with Hiccup and the female), but eventually come to the realisation that neither side poses any threat to each other. However we should also show the two of them having to cope with not being aside one another, and potentially even have a moment of realisation that one day one of the two will pass away and the other will have to officially continue on without the other. This leads to Hiccup ultimately creating the tail fin, bringing it over and applying it to Toothless. Toothless initially rejects it at first but Hiccup tells him that Toothless may need it some day for survival should the time comes that he passes away, leading Toothless to begrudgingly leave the auto tail fin on.
Potentially, we could also see the two of them becoming stronger without the need for one to be by the others' side as well, like perhaps Hiccup growing more confidence in his leadership capabilities as an individual rather than a team and Toothless adapting more primal tactics and learning to associate himself and socialise better with the small Night/Light Fury group.
The climax of the fight between the clan and the dragons (definitely with the aid of their dragon leader) rises during the span of all of this happening. The climax then happens where the dragons initially seem to have the upper hand and just when everything is about to fail the tamed dragons fly in and save the day (some of them with their potential mates, such as perhaps Toothless and his), subduing the ongoing war and convincing the clan that dragons really aren't bad as they seem. Victory ensues and there is a voice over narration from Hiccup telling how the clan eventually adopted their own dragons, and the scene cuts to a significantly older Hiccup and Toothless, each now successfully bearing a lineage of children in order to continue their legacy as the duo who severed the antagonistic views between man and dragon.
@@v1c-was-her3 a.
woah, the first part sounds like... the books. I think you should try them if you haven't already. It starts of seemingly simple, but explores the history of the human tribes and their relationship with dragons, philosophy stuff, and Book Hiccup's changing role in society.
b. ooh... I like that. Could you elaborate with what Astrid's role would be in this version?
@@maggieent3215
I'm genuinely surprised you read this (since I leave large comment not really expecting much haha) but I appreciate it immensely!
A. Oooh that actually sounds pretty cool, perhaps after my finals I could get around to seeing it. I only have the most basic knowledge of the books so hearing this is really neat!
B. Hm, in terms of Astrids role we could insert what happened in the third movie during the Hiccup centric parts; the areas where Hiccup is contemplating life without Toothless could pretty much be akin to scenes in the third movie (where he was worried that he may not be able to cope without Toothless and she could act as a support during these times). I suppose then we'd need a healthy balance between Hiccup and Toothless parts.
I'm personally unsure if in the alternate movie thought we should show a scene of them getting married though it may be necessary since during the ending we see their children anyway, but I guess it could be slotted in there somewhere...
@Vic the Nobody
I love this!
Do you write fanfiction, have a channel, Webtoon, Deviantart? etc..
I would love to see more!
@@CatherineUmbreon96
Aaaa thank you!! I'm happy more people are reading this!
I personally don't write fanfictions haha, only come up with plots and synopses for series (like cartoon, video games) I come up with, original or inspired by an existing series
I'm sure you could find some external links to other profiles in my UA-cam one?
I personally would have much preferred if the message of the final movie was more along the lines of: "No one can change the entire world, but with work and sacrifice we can ALL push it in the right direction."
Nah I Love HTTYD 3 and People are not wrong for defending it
@@dragozillasaur813 Ok. I'm happy that you enjoy the movie. Can you please explain to me why you love it? Because I genuinely want to enjoy it, but to me it's a complete betrayal of the first movie.
@@smoldragon339 Well It's my Personal Favorite of the trilogy and yet you and the other hTTYD 1 or 2 Purists tried to ruin it with pseudo facts
@@dragozillasaur813 But I'm asking specifically what it is that you love about HTTYD 3. So that maybe we can have a discussion. Because I WANT to enjoy the movie. But from where I'm standing, it undermines the entire series. Which is the worst thing a sequel can do.
@@smoldragon339 Well I Love the Light fury and Toothless' Character and I Understood why the dragons left to the hidden world, it's because if they continue fighting there would be casualties for both dragons and men, Hiccup Knows that a full dragon utopia is never possible
The movie was forced into this ending because book series YAY
Expect not really follow the book because I dunno
If they wanted to stay true to the book, then they should have made Toothless a tiny little green lizard, just like in the book. Obviously they had no interest in "following the book" when it came to that little tidbit!
When I read the book ending with the flash forward of Hiccup in the world of harmony that he created and I compared it to the flash forward of the movie I wanted to die
@@eliaskyriakou6253 I'm very glad that the books understood that a sad ending doesn't automatically mean good.
Im one of the biggest fans for this franchise
I watched every movie and series multiple times
But with all their conflicts
I thought that the deeper meaning is about hiccups dream to bring the two words of dragons and vikings together
But seeing him in the 3 movie giving up his dream broke my heart
Same here. It’s hard to watch the first two movies knowing that the third movie will tear down the foundation
THANK you. Saying all the things that I wanted to say about this movie but have been afraid to. So many people seem satistfied with it when even I, a person who doesn't always notice glaring issues with a film that most film critics can point out in a snap, was entirely unhappy and unsettled leaving the theater..
I grew up on this series. I was a huge HTTYD fan as a kid.. So when the conclusion to my beloved movie trilogy ended up being.. well, EXTREMELY upsetting and disappointing, I did my best to figure out why, after I got over my initial confusion about why exactly I was so unhappy. I mean on a basis level, from my simplistic point of view on movies, generally I just watch a movie to enjoy it. Not focus too hard on themes, pacing or anything else that can ruin the experience for many others.
But with this movie? I couldn't help it. I couldn't just push aside my issues with it because it should've been _SO_ much more to me. It should've been fantastical and it should've been at _LEAST_ on par with one of its predecessors.. But it just wasn't, and I think the main problem it suffered from was the representation of Toothless, and the direct ties to the story that resulted.
The idea that Toothless would just willingly up and leave Hiccup completely without a second thought or hesitation is just.. Character butchering, honestly. We see Toothless in EVERY representation of him. From the first and second movies to the various series and beyond. He is a loyal, noble and selfless creature. He puts himself in harms way _countless_ times to protect Hiccup and the other dragon riders. For him to just up and leave all of his bonds and loyalties among the Vikings behind is.. perhaps at a glance, how a real animal might act due to instinct. But remember, an animal who has imprinted on humans has a _big_ chance of returning to visit its human friends from time to time, even after being released into the wild. And Toothless is no ordinary animal. He is extremely intelligent, and very emotionally aware, perhaps almost to the level of human sentience.
It's just complete devastation to my suspension of disbelief that he could even begin to act the way he does in The Hidden World. A few other characters are a bit off, as well, but the most glaring is definitely Toothless.. Yes, it was lovely to see him and Hiccup function separately and be their own unique individuals. But they don't always have to, forever. Each of them come together to make something even greater and stronger when they work as a team. A powerful bond that cannot and SHOULD not be broken by anything..
Edit: Also I'm sure there's more than a few plotholes. But the biggest one coming to mind for me is that there is NO way that all the dragons across the entire world heard of and agreed to join in this sudden migration into the Hidden World. How would they possibly know? I don't think Toothless is _that_ powerful of an alpha that his control can reach across vast oceans and call up all the wild dragons that dwell on all the islands and continents of the world.
I really hated this movie. sure it's not that bad on it's own, but Toon Ruins is right when she says that it really doesn't fit the themes or the spirit of the rest of the franchise. it really is wasted potential
Also: redesign the light fury so she doesn’t look like a slug
A sluug!!! 😂😂 omg. I've never heard anyone put it like that, but I 100% agree. 🤣 lmao
Personally I feel like the main issue with the last film was that it was always supposed to and going to show why dragons are no longer around. It's just that the reason the film gave us didn't work. The villain didn't seem threatening enough to warrant it mainly because in the end the good guys still won. Had they lost that would've been a different story as the dragons would've had to flee in order to survive, but I feel like thats a good enough explanation rather than the one we got. Not to mention that in the previous two films the final act was always an epic conclusion to the story and the third simply couldn't live up to either the spectacle nor the climax of the past movies.
I was so disappointed with this move, when leaving the theater. I didn't really want anything out of this movie other than for it to wrap up one of my favorite animated trilogies in a satisfying way, but I wasn't expecting it to just reject the message the first two movies spent building.
Richard Hamilton did say that Toothless would have returned to Hiccup, even if the Rumblehorn incident hadn't happened. As he put it, Toothless was in the honeymoon phase with the Light Fury.
First of all, they should have never had the Lightfury be Toothless' mate. First movie was all about how Toothless was supposedly the last nightfury, and Grimmel hunted them down as we learned in the 3rd. But they also mention that Nightfuries are the most intelligent dragon species, so who says the Nightfuries wouldn't just go into hiding? Not to mention, but the Hidden world seems like an ideal place for Nightfuries, not Lightfuries. I feel like it would have been so much better with a female Nightfury leaving the hidden world and running from Grimmel, Toothless finds her lost and hurt from Grimmel attempting to kill her. Immediately Toothless would fall for her because it means saving their species to him, and just overall she is special because she is the "last" female nightfury. Hiccup would probably be in shock and try to help her, but instead she tries to run away, in fear that Hiccup was the same as Grimmel. Toothless follows her and finds the hidden world, meeting the other nightfuries, he was asked to stay forever but said no and asked the female Nightfury to come back with him and let Hiccup help her heal. She is hesitant but agrees, saying goodbye to the other Nightfuries for the time being. On their way back they see signs of Grimmel but never see him or any of his active boats. They reach New Berk and Hiccup names the new Nightfur, lets say Dusk. Toothless tries to tell Hiccup about Grimmel and what he did. Hiccup does not understand and just thinks that Toothless is acting odd because of meeting a female Nightfury. Time passes and Dusk leaves back to the Hidden world without Toothless knowing. Toothless can't handle not being with Dusk so he flys away to find her, only to run into Grimmel who has captured her. Toothless quickly flys back to alert Hiccup, Hiccup sees that there is something wrong and the gang follows after Toothless and Hiccup. They find Grimmel and Hiccup confronts him, thus learning the story of how Grimmel hunted supposedly all Nightfuries. Hiccup immediately notices that Toothless is no longer by his side and distracts Grimmel, then leaving to find Toothless on Stormfly with Astrid. They find a boat with Toothless and Dusk both unconscious. Astrid and Hiccup fight the few people on the boat and rescue Toothless and Dusk. They leave and fly back to where the remaining part of the gang is. They explain that Grimmel had gotten away by injuring Barf and Belch. Hiccup studies the new liquid that immobilized Barf and Belch, only to discover its venom from a Deathknapper. Days pass at New Berk and Toothless takes Hiccup, Stormfly, and Astrid to the Hidden world, Toothless is greeted by the Nightfuries who have learned from Dusk, that Hiccup and his friends are friendly and can be trusted. Hiccup learns that Grimmel did in fact kill lots of Nightfuries but not all of them. Toothless has become the king of the Hidden world at this point, Dusk as his Queen, but know that Grimmel know that there are in fact more NIghtfuries it wont be long until he raids the Hidden world, so they must get to him first. Time passes and finally Grimmel has found New berk and captures Toothless, Hiccup and the gang face Grimmel but know that they can't risk the lives of the others and need more help. Dusk can feel that something is wrong and gathers Nightfuries and other dragons to come help fight with her. They all face Grimmel and save Toothless. Hiccup faces Grimmel alone and same as before, Grimmel falls to his death. Instead of the dragons leaving, some choose to stay and some go to the hidden world, Toothless and Dusk decide to live in both worlds, live many other dragons. The end scene is different, instead of Toothless and the Lightfury and their kids reuniting with Hiccup and Astrid and their kids, Toothless and Dusk are out on a different island watching their kids play. All of the sudden their kids run off out of Toothless' and Dusk's sight. They run after them, only to be greeted by 2 older Nightfuries. Toothless faintly remembers their faces, and they also remember his. It turns out to be Toothless' parents, still searching for their lost and only son.
This took forever to write, but I belive that this would have been a better plot for the movie, as it answers lot's of our questions.
Your a better writer than dreamwork. This could have made the franchise complet insted of a half assed ending that throw eveything about the 2 first movies out the vindow.
@@glowingclaw6186 Thanks so much! Maybe I should be a Character designer and a writer xDD
That's very good, gotta admit that.
I thought all the time during the third movie, that it was kinda over the top that one guy, a single person, killed a whole species of dragons. Which also was supposed to be the smartest kind with one of the best camouflage abilities. So it would make no sense that Toothless was the only one to somehow survive. So your idea complements that pretty good.
But I think the riders wanted to keep him unique, so he still could have a family with the Light Fury - but be an unique design. Or that the children watching the movie could seperate Toothless and the Light Fury, which would be supposedly hard to if they both looked so similar.
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Thank. You. So. Much. If only they did something along those lines instead! ♥️
The ending to the third movie makes literally no sense to me.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who was very disappointed by The Hidden World.
I also love how people complain how "out of place" the ending of Toy Story 4 was when it was built up properly from film to film, while The Hidden World completely negates the themes of its predecessors for a much more out of place ending.
an ending stolen from the books, too, which had a message fitting with that bittersweet conclusion.
I realize that this is an older comment but I'd have to disagree with you about Toy Story 4 as I believe it has the same exact problem of going against the theme of the previous movies. All three of the other Toy Story movies is the toys doing everything in their power to bring their kid joy and staying together as a "family" of sorts and it has the same exact issue as HTTYD 3, with a main character leaving the other characters they've grown to consider friends/"family" for a fleeting love interest. It makes the other movies in the franchise feel pointless. And Toy Story 4 also bothered me a lot because the villain getting a happy ending solely because she had the stolen voice box from Woody and not because the child actually loved her in spite of her flaws sends a really bad message imo that you have to change or "fix yourself" in order to find happiness. Both HTTYD 3 and Toy Story 4 fall flat because of the "i'm going to ditch my friends who I've fought to stay with throughout the other movies for a girl that barely has any screen time" issue and the contradicting morals. And it's honestly such a shame because the animation in both is stunning.
@@MokiHunter Yeah. I couldn't disagree with you more. I understand that you'd want to see Woody stay with Buzz, Jessie, and the rest of the gang, but after how much Bonnie has forgotten about Woody, they weren't going to stay together forever. Eventually Woody was going to leave and that's the cold, unfortunate truth the toys had to deal with, which is why Buzz suggesting Woody to stay with the love of his life made so much sense and showed how much their friendship has grown for each other. Every kid has their favorite toy, but Woody was no longer one of them. To me, it seemed like Woody had no other choice but to leave, be happy, and help other toys, otherwise had he stayed with the gang, his departure would have ended on a much sour note for him, just like it did for Jessie. As for Gabby Gabby, first off, she's not really a villain. At first, she seems like one, but in the end, she just wanted to be given the opportunity to be loved by a kid. Also, the message of the film definitely isn't what you think it is. Just because you've fixed yourself doesn't automatically make you capable of loving. After all Woody has done for her, she still got rejected by the one kid she wanted to be with. Which is why Woody took Gabby Gabby with the gang and help her find a kid that needed her as just as much as Gabby Gabby needed her. Instead of the film being about fixing yourself to be loved or find happiness, Toy Story 4 is a film about learning to let go, what it's like when you've fulfilled your purpose, and move on to better things. It's a scary thing that we all have to come to terms with at some point in our lives and it's portrayed beautifully in Toy Story 4. It really felt like the entire franchise was building up to this ever since Toy Story 2 brought it up.
@@RyansChannel0203 Yes, I understand it in the context of Bonnie forgetting about him, but the entire premise of the movie just seems... out of place still, if that makes sense? It doesn't make sense to me that in the third movie Bonnie would be so interested in him as the first toy of the gang she comes in contact with and then in the fourth she forgets about just him? It just seems like a bit inconsistent.
Also when I said Gabbie Gabbie was the villain I guess I meant that she was meant to be the antagonist. I know she wasn't necessarily a villain but she was the source of conflict for a majority of the of the film. She didn't get to be with the girl she wanted originally, true, but I felt it would've sent a much more powerful message if she had been able to find a child that loved her even without a voice box. Though perhaps that might be a bit cliche.
And I didn't mean to say the entire movie was about fixing yourself, just that scenes like that seemed to give off that message. I personally felt that the fourth movie as a whole was unneeded, because the third movie gave the same ending that you're mentioning of "learning to let go" when Andy gave the toys to Bonnie, but it made a lot more sense in the context of the other films because they were still together and their goal was still to bring joy to children even if it wasn't Andy anymore. And it wasn't necessarily that I wanted the toys to stay together or that Woody's decision in the context of the fourth film was off. In the context of the fourth movie's plot, yes it's a sound decision and it makes sense. But the events that brought him to that decision and the plot itself are what make me feel that it worked more as a standalone movie than as part of the franchise. But we can agree to disagree! Everyone has their own opinions, and regardless it was a very well made movie.
@@MokiHunter Toy Story 3 was mainly about Andy letting go and growing up, whereas Toy Story 4 was more about Woody letting go and move on to better things. IMO, Toy Story 4 had a lot more focus on Woody than Toy Story 3 had on Andy. Which is probably my biggest problem with the third film although I do still love it. I do understand how Bonnie's lack of interest in Woody in the fourth film can be jarring though. Especially how much she loved playing with him with 3, but unfortunately, that's how kids can be. Just like Dolly said, "Bonnie is not Andy." Sometimes they play with toys for a period of time and eventually get bored of them, have new favorites, and nothing can be done about that sadly. I really feel like 4 delves into how hard a toy's life can really be. I'm glad you still like the film though. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it, and I do see where you're coming from.
I totally agree with this. It made me so sad when all of the dragons left FOR GOOD. Why couldn't they just find the balanceeeeee ;-;