Amber: Invincible's Most MISUNDERSTOOD Character
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- Опубліковано 8 тра 2024
- THANK YOU to @KaiserNeko for collaborating on this video!
If you’re familiar with the discourse surrounding the Invincible TV series, you know that there is no character more controversial than Amber Bennett. The subject of dozens of UA-cam videos and too many twitter threads to count, this character gets people HEATED. Which is surprising, Invincible is a series that features plenty of characters who LIVE in morally gray territory and some who are outright heinous in their actions. So why is the character who gets the MOST anger thrown her way… a teenage girl? Is that criticism warranted? While Amber certainly has flaws as a character, the hate thrown her way feels particularly disproportionate. I think there’s definitely a combination of factors that lead to this, I wanna explore the character in depth, and determine whether or not this is actually a character who deserves this controversial distinction.
Edited by Joe Murphy @nazchoz798
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Music:
Johnny 2 Cellos Theme Music - Norman Marston
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@lofigeek
Video Used:
Invincible (2021-2023)
Spider-Man (2002)
Spider-Man 2 (2004)
The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2012)
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It was a good and necessary change from the comics where Anissa threatened Debbie instead of Amber. Now Mark can see how dangerous this relationship truly is.
It also proves Amber's anger is kinda justified. Mark not trusting her with his identity could be very, very dangerous, because Amber would have been robbed of a crucial decision to stay with him. Mark was playing with fire from the beginning. It's not that Mark was a superhero. It's that trust and risks are essential to relationships.
I think another think to add is when we first meet amber in the show, she implies that her previous relationship wasn’t a very good one. So amber being a bit more sensitive to mark constantly failing his promises makes a lot more sense.
wait when was that?
@@namishjain9238 I believe in the first episode she was in.
@@namishjain9238 when she was talking to Eve in episode 5 she has trust issues
I was annoyed at the scene in season one where Amber says she already knew but the difference is that's where it ends with me. I was annoyed at the scene and then I moved on to being shocked at the Omniman/Invincible fight.
I think the Anissa stuff in the following season made it all worth it because Amber learned why she can’t be with Mark, despite her saying that she could handle the truth, etc. It’s a great parallel to the scenes where Mark believes that he could handle being a superhero, too. The point is that they could never be, and that’s the way it is.
@@mackielunkey2205 also the episode with armstrong show why private idendity is important to hide when you're a superhero. armstrong knows who his mom is and know this is how he could hurt Mark the most
Personally it was also the reason why they got back together didn't feel as strong on Amber's side outside of pity for Mark having a greater lie exposed to him. Given how the reveal went didn't really felt like to me it fit show Amber compared to say comic Amber's reaction.
They should just have kept Amber as she is in the comic, appearance and all. Way better character.
I don't think any critical commentary is about the character herself. It's the pacing around her. Intentional or not, it's unfun and unengaging. Not great when most people can get this from their entire life.
Anybody who read the comics knows that Amber was never meant to be much of her own character, and really was supposed to be a block between Mark and Eve.
It spent a lot of time establishing that Eve liked Mark but could never make a move as long as Amber was around.
The Show version of Amber is an *actual* character. She actually has relatable traits, goals, and desires of her own. An actual personality. Robert Kirkman himself is quite open about the fact he was 20 years old when he wrote the comics, and a big part of writing the show is going back and making improvements, and that includes doing right by Amber.
same as Debbie, show is adding extra stuff in to pad the run time and tick boxes.
@@AzguardMikemore for fleshing out the characters. They even did this with Nolan. It’s a “box check” conspiracy
@@AzguardMikeGod forbid characters whinare essential to the story are ACTUAL characters. Mist be some WOKE ploy!
You're an idiot.
Fleshing out a character is not necessarily always good
@@plantcrone9662especially one that won't have any impact for the future
Have they even read what they're adapting?
It's the same thing that happened with Breaking Bad. Skylar offers pushback, the fans turn on her and treat her like she's worse than Walter, the DRUG DEALING KINGPIN. People just don't have empathy and can't see things from someone else's perspective who isn't the main character.
Yeah I think this too, I saw comments in another video about Amber where they admitted that "I agree with her, he's been a bad boyfriend but I hate seeing her cause she makes the show boring" or they "hate hearing her complain even though she's right"
No, but the difference between Skylar and Amber her husband was a damn drug dealer and she had kids Amber is dating a superhero and she overreacted and acted like he cheated on her that’s why nobody likes her character
THANK YOU! I’ve never understood the “controversy” behind Amber, and her actions, and I couldn’t have agreed more with your guys’ breakdown if I tried.
People didn’t like Amber because she was being rude
i actually agree, season 2 amber feels like a completely different person, though i feel like she should've always been written that way from the start.
She always was.
That's what people are missing.
@@KaiserNeko She was definitely written differently in season 1 with the freak out at Upstate, after Mark saves their lives (literally saves her life) I’m not saying she has no right to break up with him or ever be upset but the manner in which she reacted to that situation was completely out of character and was extremely forced just to create tension. They then sweep that under the rug because they wanted her to know all along and still be pissed.
I think she seems like a different person because Mark is truthful to her.
@@sam_Invincible does it make more sense to tell Mark “hey I know why you’re always gone” instead of just being angry at him every time and seeing how upset he gets every time you tell him off for missing something. The problem was she knew his secret and said nothing while still making him feel like shit knowing he’s just trying to save lives.
@josephrushes I can actually explain that scene! It plays out almost identical to how it does in the comics, and the problem is that in the comics, Amber didn't know Mark was Invincible at that point. So her reaction made much more sense when she genuinely thought Mark had left her and everyone else to die. The college scene forgets to take into account the twist, and in that context it makes Amber look completely unreasonable.
I think the only issue with her character is that one scene. That one scene turned her from a sympathetic character whose frustrations I felt for and understood into a ridiculous one that I hated to see on screen. The fact that she got so upset at Mark for abandoning her and William, if she knew he was invincible, is just pure, unadulterated stupidity. The person who wrote the scene and the people who greenlit it had no idea what they were doing. There had to have been some horrible communication between people on the project. You can only have one of these scenes:
Either Amber gets angry that Mark abandoned her during the Cybermen attack and she doesn't know he's invincible.
Or, she understands that she isn't being abandoned and knows he is invincible. You can't play it both ways and have it make any logical or emotional sense. Huge ball drop by the team and you can tell that Amber's attitude for the majority of season 2 was adjusted heavily to be far more placid. Which makes Amber and Mark's relationship a much less intriguing dynamic for the show overall.
A point of clarification: she never says she knew he was Invincible but as a superhero. She literally asks William who was that when she saw invincible meaning she had no idea who that superhero is.
@@mangamandrew
That makes no logical sense. At all.
@@augustuzmoon3814 How is that not logical?
@@mangamandrew It makes logical sense that if you know your boyfriend is a superhero, an attack happens, he disappears, a hero shows up to save people, as soon as they disappear your boyfriend reappears, it’s likely that’s the superhero is your boyfriend.
@@oreotaku4017 Sure, it’s likely but it can also be a coincidence because the series established that people are facial blind to superheroes. And in that same scene, she assumes that her superhero boyfriend would immediately jump in to save people from the robot but instead sees him not doing much at all. She assumed that he ran away because he had ample opportunity to jump in and help but just didn’t.
When they first introduced her, I wasn’t a fan because I felt she’d just be your typical “new girlfriend meant to keep the main characters separated”. But she quickly won me over. I was rooting for them even though I knew it would ultimately end in tragedy.
This IS kinda an issue I actually have towards her.
Like as a black dude, It doesn't sit right with me how she unintentionally just falls into the '' disposable black gf'' trope
I don't say it publicly out of a fear and understanding that a loud portion of comic fans are beligerently racist, sexist lack the ability to discuss, experience of relationships or the critique and tact to tackle them that I just keep my mouth shut out of not wanting to waste hours arguing with a wall.
But yeah, as of now, I like amber ( not the relationship ) more than eve. And while her story was mostly handled well and I'm sure the writers had the best intentions at heart.
How transparent it is the cheese disposable makes A part of her story hard to sit with fully
@@theradionicrevival8068 i’ve never really noticed that before, do you have any good examples? i’m curious how bad this is
Same, early on I thought she was just going to be fridged. But they successfully dodged that one, and I feel very glad
@@theradionicrevival8068 She was a white girl in the comics, she only falls into that trope now because they decided to go the typical diversity route.
@@ravencg7709it’s more of a thing in live action works like Grownish and the show “you.” The jokers fake girlfriend in the movie joker. Liz from Spider-Man homecoming
However while black is in the name, it can easily extend to POC In general, black women are just the main ones that fall into the trope. But generally still, if they ain’t white, they also get blocked into being building blocks too.
I only bring this up because while not black (I think her name was) Cho Chang from Harry Potter also fits that bill to a T. ESP since her creator is actually blatantly bigoted and put that into her work in numerous.
Only black kid in that story has the last name of “shacklebolt” 💀
But since this is an animation channel, Valerie from Danny phantom or the hair girl from Star vs come to mind (I think her name was kelly??? That Marco dated and broke up with mostly offscreen.)
It’s essentially a fusion of the disposable gf trope (self explanatory). Which most tropes are jus writing tools, every story has them, no such thing as a bad trope just bad execution.
But where it DOES get insidious is how the disposable black gf trope fuses with the magical negro trope which actually IS bad has negative real world effects on people’s perception of black people and is historically rooted in actual real world bigotry.
But essentially the magical negro role is basically the role a black person can serve in the story for their right counterparts to essentially just be there to prop up their white mc’s guide them to where they need to go fix all their problems be supernaturally wise, often literally. And then be cast aside once said characters find what they need. Essentially a role designed to prop up white people, be used and quietly discarded.
Which in itself is a branch of the in general black/POc characters being disposable.
If you watch horror the whole “the black guy always dies first”, god knows how many the walking dead characters.
And even when they’re not the first death or anything, they’re “outs” of the series can be weirdly unfair and unceremonious exit’s” leshawna’s treatment in total drama island is prolly the most famous example of this in the current animation spheres generations.
Like I said in amber’s case, I’m choosing to assume the creators probably didn’t intend for her to come off this way.
Can chalk it up to a mix of probably being mismanaged and not given as much time and money to do all of what they wanted for seasons 1 and 2 and maybe not having many black/POc writers, particularly women in the room to review it sadly.
And it’s not like the serious is over, maybe they deviate from the comic further with her and she does still have a role in the series?
But at the end of the day it just leaves me feeling bad for amber and wish she were written better, handled better or just be in a dif series entirely rather than just be the doomed cracked ship lol
One thing I noticed about Amber is we don’t actually see her suffering the consequence of Mark’s lying in season 1 and being a superhero in season 2. She always TELLING Mark what happened or what he missed.
Now we don’t need to see EVER single time Mark didn’t show up but I think there are two scenes from each season that would’ve made the audience more sympathetic to Amber.
-In season 1 they should’ve add a scene where we see Amber waiting for Mark to show up to that dinner with her mom. There doesn’t even need to dialogue, it can be Amber waiting anxiously for Mark to show up and her mom giving Amber a questionable look.
A scene like that would’ve made the audience feel bad for Amber. We all know Mark is trying to protect the world but Amber is suffering the consequences of the constant lying. So when we see Mark promise to be better for Amber later on we as the audience get annoy with Mark because we know he can’t do that.
-Then for season 2, I think there should have been a scene of Amber learning her grandfather died (If my memory is correct this was when Mark went to space to help with Nolan) In this scene we should have Amber instinctively try to call Mark learning this news but it goes to voicemail. We can have the scene play out where Amber goes on this long and heartbreaking speech explaining that she wishes Mark was here for her to support her for this. However we see her look guilty as she goes on this speech before deciding to cancel the voicemail and never sending up.
Showing once again how Amber is suffering the consequences. This time it hurts WAY more because Amber really is trying to be supportive of Mark and trying to be better. Even though she is trying that doesn’t mean it doesn’t bother her and see it.
I think seeing these scenes instead of hearing them would have helped out a lot. Because as that one English teacher always said, “Show is better than telling”
That would’ve been amazing
@@MaureenMurphy_ the writers could’ve done so MUCH more with her character.
Also just a bit of speculation on my end but I think the reason why Amber came off so head strong or had such big reactions in season 1 was only to make Mark miserable.
I don’t think Amber’s reactions are unjustifiable but there are certain scenes that feel like they are only happening for the sake of drama (At least in my opinion but oh well)
They could’ve done so much more with Amber’s character and add more insight into this way of hero-civilian relationship but I feel like the writers didn’t care too much sometimes.
Amber signed up for a boyfriend, she didn’t know superhero was a part of the bargain until 8 months in. It was perfectly understandable for her to be upset.
Her being rude and heartless made people not like her that’s it
@@Aaronlovesfood2 rude and heartless is not how i would define Amber being pissed that Mark wasn't holding up his end.
@@zacharybosley1935 the reason people don’t like Amber is because she was rude and heartless to mark that’s why she’s dislike
@@Aaronlovesfood2 what made her look heartless?
@@zacharybosley1935 her overall tone and voice like seriously she was acting like like Mark was a serial killer and nobody had a problem with her breaking up with Mark it was the way she did it
I think the Sam Raimi Spider-Man 2 game did a great job with Peter and MJ's relationship by throwing in Black Cat. I love that game.
I finally watched through the whole show last week. And I got to the end of the first season and asked myself out loud "wait, THAT'S why everyone hated her so much? That's why there were all those videos talking about how she was the worst character?" I thought there had to be more to it than that. Like, her response wasn't great, but the conversation about her has been wild. I've seriously seen people trying to argue that she was gaslighting Mark. Like...be for real. At the end of the day, her frustration stemmed from him lying, from allowing her to think FOR MONTHS that he was a bad boyfriend that didn't care about her, rather than being open with her. That's it. Doesn't mean she responded in the best way, but it also certainly didn't deserve that level of hate. And in s2 I found their story quite moving! It's clear that in another universe - one where he didn't have his powers - Amber and Mark probably would have had a good and healthy relationship. And there's a lot of inherent tragedy in that.
Do you not understand how much of a commitment revealing your secret identity is?
You can't go around telling your high school girlfriend your identity if you don't even know if you wanna settle with her.
Imagine all your exes just knowing your identity
@@Coconut_PrrsonPeople like you are the reason why Amber is overhated.
@@hannahmetzger4880 I don't even hate Amber, in fact I like the character. But I'm seeing everyone in this comment section act like she's completely right and free of mistakes
@@Coconut_Prrson yeah it's a bit of a coin flip because she was written better in the second season but that doesn't really excuse the writing in the first for being inconsistent
@Coconut_Prrson I'm like you in a way, actually. I feel like both Mark _and_ Amber fucked up in their own, separate ways. (By the way, I haven't seen Season 2 yet, so please, no major spoilers [I'm fine with minor ones, though :P]).
What I find interesting about this video is the "big moment" is somewhat glossed over when that is in fact the biggest reason why the Amber hate is (was?) pretty strong. It's less character related and more writing related. This is stated in the video but it's quickly swept under for the admittedly more interesting character study, but I think it is a mistake to not stress how bad of a scene that was for Amber.
I've watched Season 1 with multiple people and they all commented on how bad Mark was treating Amber, but the moment that Amber stated she knew he was a superhero and have "for weeks", that's when nearly all favor for Amber diminished. Because not only does it make Amber not make sense in the previous episode, it can also be taken a step further since that lack of harmony between the two episodes recontextualizes her character when you take it at face value. If Amber knew for weeks, and strongly values honesty, then why did she effectively lie to Mark in the previous episode? Why not commit to talking to him about it? For every benefit you can give to Amber for the "big moment" there's about twice as many ways that damages her character that you'd have to ignore.
The writing does choose to ignore this in Season 2, which perhaps is a silent confirmation that it actually was a writing problem.
My biggest issue with amber in S1
Was how she didnt confront him when she found out.
When we first see her she is very confrontional and knows what she wants. ( i mean this in a good way)
Sure she gives him the benifit of the doubt at first but when she found out that should of been the argument then.
Her waiting on that info just feels off.
That said i like her portayal more then the comics
S2 was like watching a trainwrek with them but it was great
Hope to see her in s3 at least a few times
I guess she naively waited that Mark tell her about the superhero stuff
@@pikminologueraisin2139 I know it happens but if the end result is regardless a breakup why wait ....I know the easy answer is *teens* idk felt more forced then it needed to be imo. Then again, irrational teens be irrational
She wanted to give Mark a chance to come clean on his own. If she forced him “out” then she would never know whether or not he would have ever told her on his on
@@NepBeard but that's kind of the basics of being a superhero without telling someone your identity. People act like this isn't some big deal of a secret
Not saying he should have never told her but for her to get as upset as she did feels odd when it's clear he was only doing it to protect her. Like her reaction just comes out if nowhere and feels slightly vindictive.
Idk clearly this is a very divisive subject. But I'll say she was way better written in season 2 all together rather than towards the end of season 1
I can get that, but again. If Result is break up because the fact remains he's lieing. Why wait just confront him how she confronted him about wanting to date or the bully - she was written as headstong character is all I'm saying- having her wait just felt off.
I do think her 180-course correction in season 2 is interesting as well. She becomes overwhelmingly supportive and understanding of Mark's situation to the detriment of her own happiness and peace of mind. Mark is away for even longer periods in S2 but this time Amber knows he's out superheroing with the worry that he may not return always in the back of her head. Honestly, she's a good foil to Debbie in a way. Debbie became very blase and detached from Nolan's career to the point that his leaving to go do battle in another dimension is like her husband going to a work conference for a weekend. Granted, Nolan is much stronger than Mark, so Debbie did not have to worry as much about him being harmed as Amber does with him. However, you can argue it's a coping mechanism she developed due to him constantly being away from home and having to raise their son by herself a lot of the time.
I also like how the series does not shame Amber for her decision to leave Mark because of how his career hurts her, and never compares her to Debbie. Both of them made decisions that were right for them at the time.
Did you… watch the video? This is not “course correction”, Amber never had a problem with him being a hero in the first place. The problem is that he was LYING TO HER. And once he stopped lying to her, she no longer had a reason to be angry
@@NepBeardI feel like being angry at him when he didn't feel ready/safe is similar to a queer kid not being willing to tell someone they're queer for similar reasons. They don't owe you their personal shit so them taking their time to open up about it is entirely upto them and not deserving of being berated for not feeling safe yet. Trust takes a LONG time to build, especially for something so personal that can leave you feeling very vulnerable to talk about. Same goes for talking about a past trauma. Like imagine somekne was ditching her was due to panic attacks brought on from child abuse, would it be right for her to be angry at them for not opening up to her about that if they weren't ready?
At least, as a queer person who's also had trauma growing up that's why her reaction bugged me. I completely get it as obviously it can hurt to not feel like you can be confided in but guilting someone over that isn't your right. I do think it was unfair on Mark. Admitting to being a superhero and potentially leaving his loved ones exposed to danger is a huge ask, hell in season 2 is fears are validated when Anissa shows up and has Amber by the throat, which becomes the straw that broke the camels back on an already stressful relationship for both.
Amber was actually pretty likable especially in Season 2. I wouldn't have been scared for her when Anissa grabbed her if I didn't care.
they were too scared of giving her a personality or any sort of conviction after what the community did to her in S1.
@@botanicalitus4194After getting that much hate can you blame them?
@@claytonrios1no I dont blame them but its still sad
@botanicalitus4194 I agree with Johnny and a lot of the other commentators here that Amber gets too much undeserved hate, but it _is_ still sad, so yeah, you make a valid point.
They massively improved her character in the second season and the tragic end of their relationship did really hit a lot more than in the comics.
She was always going to be a roadblock on the road to Eve and Mark, call it a canon event, but the first season made her unlikable in a very annoying way, in that learning Mark’s secret didn’t initially make her any more understanding of him (which changed in season 2 for the better) and kept picking really, really selfish fights.
They didn't "improve" her character. Amber was already a solid character in season 1
She only learned about his secret a few weeks prior to the break up, they had been dating for months at that point. The only fight we see of them post her learning the truth was the break up fight, where she was completely justified in her anger. Why should his secret make him any more sympathetic to her than the "family responsibility lie" he told her earlier? She made it clear to him them that its ok for him to have other responsibilities however of those responsibilities will make it so he cant be there for her consistently then she doesnt want to date him. Instead of respecting her decision, he lies, says things will different while knowing full well they wont be because he literally cannot neglect his hero responsibilities. He could have respected her desire to not be with someone who has that many responsibilities but chose to lie to her every time and say things will be different next time, when he KNEW they wouldnt be. She had been strung along and lied to for months, she didnt owe him any sympathy for that because.... well itnwas his choice! He could have just broke up with her and not had to worry about this relationship at all (which would have been the best for both of them)
@@pedanticat9479 They fumbled what was essentially an original character (which was not a bad thing either, comic Amber is hilariously bland and forgettable) by making her too competent for her own good as strange as that sounds.
If she can figure out Mark’s identity fairly quickly (as it’s stated she had figured it out several episodes prior) yet still not have enough empathy or emotional intelligence to understand that his secret is his to tell her when he’s ready, just as any of hers would’ve been, and the extenuating circumstances Mark was in it sorta doesn’t track.
My opinion is that Amber is written too well to excuse that dumb ass blow-up in season 1, not that she’s a terrible character or better in the comic.
Edits: Me caveman bad at spelling
She didn’t improve she had less screen time
I hard disagree that the end of their relationship hit harder in the comics. In the comics, Amber is barely a character, which meant I felt... Nothing when they broke it off. Hell, the story itself pretty much acknowledges this by having Mark, literally in the either same or next issue, get together with Eve.
I guess I hated their relationship instead of the characters because why didn't either of them break up sooner?? Sure she "gave him an out" but why didn't she decide for herself that the relationship wasn't going anywhere? Why doesn't she have any regency for her side of the relationship?
Sure, they were seniors in high school, but in season two they're in college. The writers make Amber look bad by not giving her any regency for her own life other than being Mark's girlfriend. We root for Mark because he's the protagonist, but we're not prompted by the story to root for Amber because we didn't know what she wants.
I might just be tired of the "everything would work out if the two people were up front with each other to avoid the inevitable confusion."
I think you mean _agency_ instead of _regency._
She does have agency. She gave Mark the choice to stay in the relationship or leave. She broke up with Mark twice.
And season one does show us what Amber wants, she wants to be with Mark. She wanted to be a help to people. The issue is that now that she is apart of the superhero life, that’s most of her time and focus on.
@@mangamandrew im like did bro no pay attention? because she absolutely had agency lmfao
@@shaphier7057 a lot of people were not paying attention
because she wants to be with him. it's that simple, even if he lied for months, because he was sweet during the time they were together
Ooh boy, the comments are gonna be fun with this one...
Honestly, I prefer her to Eve. I understood why they broke up, and it was the right decision, but I’m just not a huge fan of Mark and Eve being together. I like them as friends.
It's intended in the comics so it will happen in the show
I liked Amber better too. She feels a bit more bland in season 2 though, so I was just ready for them to end it. Eve is nice, but there’s always this sadness that feels like it just takes over her whole personality & I know she’s had it pretty rough. So I’m feeling kind of over all of it at the moment lol.
Now imagine if Amber never overreacted in season one she would probably be one of the most love characters in the show 😔😔
I feel like people would have still not liked her. Especially since people are trying to push her out of the way because they want mark and eve to be a thing
Oh if only you knew how shipping culture works
The amount of mfs who hate aang for standing in the way of zutara
Also I feel te overreaction is necessary and some version of it should've always existed.
I blame cinemasins for the rise in mfs tryna race to outsmart the media they consume and be pissed when a plot element isn't immediately paid off.
I feel like some people don't understand that a character has flaws and sometimes has to make mistakes in order for the rise when they get better learn grow and improve to happen.
The mfs who say people who hate amber couldn't handle bojack horseman or any shounen anime are right on the money.
Invincible is ironically a story about '' people'' and the muddied messes that come with that.
I think it's more narratively and emotionally interesting to have a character not just casually go along with whatever the super powered bf is doing and have some agency and demand to be seen as a Person
The alternative we get when we don't have that are mfs like William. whom I LOVE btw
But admittedly he's kind of wet blanket of a character by design. His reasonability of just being cool and opting to stay out and away with marks dangerous life makes it kinda hard to justify the focus he winds up getting.
I like the stuff that focuses on him, but admittedly it could've 100% been reduced
And I've def read complaints related to this very thing from other fans watching as well
His desire to stay out of things means he can't even serve as a civilian character that grounds the hero like amber, Debbie, Lois or ma and Pa kent do
But that doesn't quite mean amber should stay and William should go.
Just that in a show about people I think it spices things up a lot more when you have multiple different people have different perspectives and opinions on the events that take place around them rather than just all being some variant of ''cool'' with everything that happens to them
@@Firehazerd5444 Fair, but I really enjoyed season 2´s way of handling their relationship. Yes, everyone wants Mark to get with Eve, but when THAT episode with them having dinner came out, I absolutely connected with her and saw the problem that had been strangling their relationship for forever and felt that pain for their impending separation like at no other point in the show. Almost cried.
she didnt overreact
@@theradionicrevival8068 it could have worked if the show Was talking about Amber being a flawed character but they actually were saying she was right they were even throwing it in Mark’s face this is what I mean when I say she was poorly written a couple of tweaks she could’ve been one of the best 😔😔😔
Even the scene where she gets upset at Mark for abandoning her at the college makes sense once you understand it was her trying to push Mark into telling her the truth about his identity. She was playing along with his lie because obviously if you were abandoned to die by your “totally normal” SO, you’d be pretty pissed about it. And Amber wanted to show Mark that in the hopes he’d stop lying.
It just didn’t work lol
But even taking that scene at face value, the fact that people think that someone invalidates all her grievances at the way Mark was treating her when she DIDNT know he was Invincible is pretty horrifying. Like, yall would make bad partners fr
Do you tell me that there are people out there that didn't understand honesty?
Millions of them apparently
Yeah I never had a problem with her character. It reminded me of a former relationship I was in, where it was a perfect girl, but the timing and situation and all surrounding details were off. It taught me that the right person at the wrong time is the wrong person. The problem is that he never trusted her enough to tell her. She felt alone out there. The hardest part is to try and view it from her side. We can’t expect her to always be rational because we as people are never always going to be rational. I love flawed characters, and she is a great example of one.
Bro one the most dislike aspects of Season 1 was her
I wanna see te rock you've been living under
I honestly think some people have an issue separating what they know vs what the characters know, and maybe sometimes some other biases factor into that if you already have that problem with media comprehension
My name's Amber Bennett, Yo
My boyfriend is INVINCIBLE, Yo 😗
Uh huh.
He told me everything
I'm reading the Invincible universe rn and I'm a bit over 50 issues into Invincible, and I can confidently say Amber is a 10x better character in the show than any of her comic appearances
She’s barely a character in the comics
I didn't even know she was a character in the comics until today, for some reason I kept hearing that she was a new character invented for the show.
fr she's just there as his gf
like telia in the comics too (for some reason she's allen's superior now, but it is what it is)
@@RoguSpanish by that those people probably meant that she was raceswapped and her personality was totally different, so it felt like a new character
I liked Amber even in Season 1, because she had a point and most importantly... SHE'S STILL A KID.
yupp
I guess just wanting a relationship where you spend time with your boyfriend is selfish
uh ???? she's an innocent person you mean ?
She's not really a kid she's 17 at the very youngest which is old enough to act mature.
@@michealarwood7488My guess is that you're around 17 years old. They are NOT mature. Most people don't mature until they have real responsibilities, so mid 20's really.
How dare a girl be at odds with her boyfriend over him not being honest with her and constantly bailing out on her, what the hell does she expect: a relationship where two people spend time with each other and at least have a discussion about secrets?
Mark can’t tell every girl he dates a secret that huge. It’s a big fucking deal. they were only together a few months and he did eventually tell her anyway.
@kevinmccabe3984 I mean, several months feels like a long enough amount of time to figure out if he can trust someone. If he's serious about pursuing a relationship with her, he's going to have to tell her eventually.
@@kevinmccabe3984 They didn’t say he HAD to tell every girl, or that he even had to tell her? They said she’s justified in being upset about it. A lot of y’all, especially in recent internet times, seem to not understand the concept of “two things can be true at once”. Not everything’s black and white and not every argument has someone who’s right and someone who’s wrong. Someone having a valid reason for doing something doesn’t in any way invalidate the resulting emotions of the person they hurt, and intent never cancels out impact. Mark being justified in not telling her doesn’t automatically make Amber *unjustified* in being angry about it, that’s not how things work.
Ugh. Women.
@@kevinmccabe3984Cool then he shouldn't date someone he can't keep his promises to. Easy as.
The people who go on rants about Amber to this day are always the same type of people. She sucked way way worse in the comics but these guys will have you believe the comics version was done better.
Yeah, bigots...
you say that because she was white
@@pikminologueraisin2139 Mark and Amber were cheating on each other in the comics
@@JogVodka oh yeah you're right
Don't look on me, I just rode Freddie Mercury parts
They where together for a few MONTHS. A super hero alter ego needs more time to honestly tell your partner beyond a few months.
They also need to understand how much time they’re capable of committing to a fucking relationship lol
PST! If you actually watch the video, you'll see we never make an argument that he needed to reveal his secret identity earlier.
@KaiserNeko I'm saying the argument I've had with this subject. I am watching the video. I think what some fail to see Is the time span of their relationship.
And with all due respect i didnt cuss at you. I capitalized months for emphasis on the timeframe of their relationship @Johnny2Cellos
@@Omegaspl33nOkay, but here is the thing. How much time would they need. 1 month? 1 year? 1 decade? My point being that time is subjective relative to the person. Debbie knew Nolan was a hero from the start. Mark was going to tell Amber his secret 1 month in. In the story, it’s the responsibility of the secret hold to tell when the right time is while also realizing how their partner is feeling in the relationship too.
Amber's perspective is honestly kind of understandable if you look at stuff from her position (and not the 'greater good' like too many ppl do), she's made to be a flawed character, but its invincible. Theyre all flawed. And she's pretty accurate to the comics.
what gets me is that she herself never ignored the greater good, they were dating for months and she only found out about his secret 2 weeks before their talk/break up. How was she supposed to know he was late to the soup kitchen thing because he was saving the world? or stood her up a million times because he had to deal with a city destroying villain?
yes, it was an irrational breakdown but it's understandable, In the comics she was more sensible
but does any character call her out on her flaws?
I agree but she's no where close to being accurate to the comics (and that's a good thing)
This just reminded me that I haven’t watched the second half of season 2
Do it. It's as amazing as the other episodes, and there's a surprising cameo
The release schedule was almost as bad as Jojo part 6. I ended up just waiting for it all to come out and then forgetting what happened in the part I initially watched.
@@druidt8949....?
@@cw442 this is exactly what happened to me! That release schedule was horrible.
Getting there hhhhhhhhhhhh
This looks like a good series to be invested into, should I watch it?
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Its a great time to jump on. It's free on Amazon and Season 2 just finished.
The problem is that they changed the way she found out. In the comics, she has no idea until Mark tells her, so her being mad makes sense. By making her find out on her own, but still be mad at Mark, she comes off as an entitled asshole who doesn't care that Mark is out there saving lives, which feels very out of character for her, considering that she seems to place a lot of value in helping people. It's permanently tainted her character in the eyes of a lot of viewers, which probably wasn't helped by the long wait between seasons.
I like Amber, and I appreciate how they were able to turn her into an actually interesting character, unlike the comic version who was as deep as a puddle. But this whole thing is an example of how one bad scene can ruin someone's perception of a character.
Personally, I think they really needed a scene at the start of Season 2 where they reconcile, because them suddenly being perfectly happy together was quite jarring. A scene like that probably would've helped bring a lot of people back to liking Amber.
Here is how I viewed it. I think the issue is the assumption she knew Mark was Invincible, not a superhero. How I viewed it is that she most likely did not have an understanding of what his super heroics meant until after the college trip. This is seen how she reacts when she knows he is a superhero that does dangerous work. It’s just possible that she does not connect the dot between Mark and Invincible in the same way no one knew Atom Eve was Eve.
I can see where you guys are coming from here. While I'm not defending Mark for being dishonest to her, my biggest problem with Amber in season 1 is if she already knew he's Invincible all along, then why couldn't she tell him about it right away instead of waiting until the right moment where it makes more frustrating in writing quality? If they changed the scene where Amber finds out he's Invincible from the moment he reveals himself to her, can understand his intention but still be mad at him for lying to her before and asking him to promise her to always be honest with her no matter what, it would have handled fine there.
I think its more that she didn't want to *force* him to reveal himself as Invincible if he wasn't ready yet- sharing secrets near and dear to you is very hard, and especially so if you're a superhero like Mark is. Like, there are so many factors going into whether he should reveal himself or not (the safety of his friends and family above all) that it probably would not have gone well if she'd confronted him with it. Instead, playing the part of the neglected girlfriend allows Mark the space he needs to tell her that he's a superhero on his own time. It isn't trying to find some fault of Mark or toy with him needlessly- she's looking out for him and his best interests, in her own way.
@@axoltl5462 I see.
I’m not quite sure where people are getting the “she knew the whole time thing.” She said she knew for weeks after putting things together, yes, but Amber and Mark were together for *months.* She figured it out a little while before they broke up, sure. Does that suddenly mean that the neglect and lies she faced weren’t real? No. Does she think Mark is a terrible person for saving people? Also no.
She waited for him to be truthful with her. He refused to do so for a long time. The conflict was a result of him lying to her over and over and her confronting him about it. If she found out 3 weeks before, or in that moment, what difference does it make? She was still in harms way and Mark was still promising her time he hadn’t to spare.
She was not upset that Mark was abandoning her for no reason. He had very good reasons. She *eventually* found that out. She was upset that he insisted he *wouldn’t* abandon her, and then did so anyway.
Amber's whole character in season 1 is that she dislikes lying, but the issue is that when dealing with superhero's that's one of the only times when lying is a GOOD THING.
Hero's have secret identities that they can't tell anyone because they need to keep they're families safe, Mark can't tell Amber his identity not because he's scared the goblin will attack her, but because he's scared she could be a goblin-like character and go after his loved ones. Mark has to lie to her out of necessity, which makes the fact that she knew the whole time even worse.
Amber dislikes the fact that Mark is lying to her, but the truth is that superhero's are forced to lie to keep people safe. Amber finds out why he's lying to her and instead of trying to understand the idea that him lying is a necessity to keep him and everyone around him safe, she acts as though she is above that and that Mark should have been telling her the truth regardless.
Superhero's HAVE to lie its why spiderman wears the mask, they are literally the only situation where you would be justified to lie to someone because it could mean the difference between someone's life or death. Amber decided to ignore all of this and still be mad at mark regardless, and its why so many people have an issue with her character.
Season 2 amber is better tho tbh
Did... you watch the video?
Because we go very in depth about this.
TLDR: Amber dislikes lying, superhero's are forced to lie for the greater good, Amber knows this and still gets mad at mark for lying. S2 does this better because her issue isn't lying its time commitment. S1 amber 😭 S2 amber 😊
@@Henry28aAmber had every right to be mad.
@@KaiserNeko i thought the goblin reference was enough to let people know i watched the vid 🥲
@Henry28a Okay so...
Amber was upset that Mark completely lied about being there for her. He said he would, over and over, and kept bailing. When she told him, "I can't keep doing this." He said he'd get better. But he didn't. It only got worse.
And that's *Mark's fault.* Because he needed to be honest. Not about what he was, but about whether he could be there for Amber.
Amber was absolutely correct to be upset.
Amber "knowing" that he was a hero was corny but people blew it out of proportion, and it did not bother me that much. But I feel like the hate that she got made the writers tip toe around her character in s2.
This video has really turned my opinion around on season 1 Amber. Scott's argument and Johnny's reminder that Invincible lives in a world of exploring grey areas finally made the whole thing click for me. I still feel that the execution was clunky, but at the same time, I can finally see where the writers were coming from with it.
Okay but Amber literally lied to Mark too. Everyone knows communication is important in a relationship and Amber should’ve just been honest and said “Mark, I know you’re a superhero and I’m upset that you’ve been lying to me.”
Instead she goes off to flirt with some random college guy despite having in her own words “figured it out weeks ago.”
Mark was a bad boyfriend, no doubt, but he made a mistake in thinking that he could balance his superhero and personal life better than he could. Mark didn’t come forward with the most important secret of his life to someone he only knew for a few months while Amber’s secret would’ve greatly improved their situation. Mark coming forward would’ve improved things too but it’s a much bigger secret and he couldn’t have predicted how she would’ve reacted. They could have just broken up then because Mark wasn’t ready to commit or because Amber wanted a boyfriend who was able to be around. Instead, Amber keeps her knowledge secret and makes the situation worse.
I just don’t understand why some people slam Mark for not communicating when Amber was just as bad at it. She isn’t honest with her frustrations but instead bottles them up and yells at Mark when he does eventually recognize his mistake because he didn’t do it quickly enough for her. Mark was a bad boyfriend but Amber was also a bad partner to him.
Waiting for your significant other to reveal sensitive information to you rather than revealing you have a suspicion is not the same thing as lying
@@Johnny2Cellos But why was Mark the bad guy for keeping sensitive information from her yet she’s fully justified in keeping sensitive information from him? Mark was an awful boyfriend, like I said, but the information that Amber kept secret literally could’ve solved the problem. I just don’t see how purposefully not communicating about something your partner’s doing that upsets you and exasperating the conflict can be justified. Again, Mark was a poor communicator too but his secret was extremely important and every time he revealed it could’ve been a disaster. Amber, meanwhile, had information that could’ve greatly improved their relationship or helped them communicate about breaking up and chose not to communicate about it. She must’ve known how important it was for Mark to keep the secret so telling him she knew could’ve made things a lot easier, that’s all I’m saying.
I didn’t say Mark was a bad guy in fact I went far out of my way to say the issue was circumstantial, it’s just SUPER understandable why Amber would be upset if you look at those corcumstances
@@Johnny2Cellos I see where you’re coming from and I do understand why Amber would be upset. I just don’t believe her not communicating her anger directly to mark made the situation any better. Again, I’m not saying it’s not Mark’s fault. I believe it’s both their faults for not properly communicating their feelings and making the situation worse.
teenage girl acts like a teenage girl more at 11
the problem is amber never gets called out for being in the wrong
@@youngsterjones mark is also portrayed as a simp so i'd assume he didnt tell what amber said to william and eve
he was a simp in the comics too
@@youngsterjones
Why does she need to be called out? We can see right in front of us that Mark has very good reasons not to tell Amber the truth initially. Do we really need someone to sit Amber down and tell her she’s being unreasonable for being upset with Mark in order to suddenly save her character? I’d argue they’ve already shown that she learned from her mistakes in season 2 when she’s trying to be more supportive of Mark’s superhero gig
So here's my issue. Amber's problem with Mark was his complete lack of honesty, and that is an issue and she is valid for that. But she didn't break up with him at the college. She had an opportunity to but chose to stay together in hopes things would change. So why is it that immediately when Mark tells her the truth after the college trip does she then decide to break up with him? We're being led to believe that Mark telling her the truth is the key that is going to start turning their relationship around because that's what Amber wanted all along right? And this is what happens in season 2 after they get back together. So why is he now punished for it? Not to mention how incredibly tone deaf them getting back together was.
Amber: "So what if you're Invincible and have a duty to the people, my feelings matter too"
*Mark gets his shit pushed in by Omniman"
Amber: "I now see that you're going through an incredibly hard time and I forgive you for your past mistakes. Let's just forget I knew you were Invincible for a long time and know you were always getting your shit pushed in. This time I really understand even though I should have no better understanding of how hard your life is than before"
I love that Scott is in this video. Hes the whole reason I realized how wrong I was while I was on that Amber hate train back after season 1 finished
what I can't get over is when in s1 ep8 Amber said to Mark 'At least I'm not the only one was lied to'. This was referencing Nolan lying about Viltrumite culture and killing the Guardians to Mark. On top of this, he almost beat Mark to death. She compared this to Mark lying about where he was. I genuinely thought I heard double when I watched that part. And then Mark fucking took her back.
@@gbamuchukwu6775 I mean if you wanna play trauma Olympics then I can see where you're coming from
@gbamuchukwu6775 I mean, I'm not a fan of the Victim Hood Olympics, especially considering that's not the tone of her saying that. She's trying to empathize with Mark with the only thing she can, which was being lied to while also taking him back herself yet again. It's not Mark that took her back since he still wanted to be with her after his "You should put up with all my BS just because I'm a super who isn't treating you with respect in this relationship." Stunt, he tried to pull. Nolan tried to do the same when he and Debbie starred dating before she put her foot down about it, and Nolan really started his act.
@@silentassason I can't believe Mark thinks Amber did nothing wrong
@@gbamuchukwu6775 I mean they both screwed up I fail to see why people act like Mark is the one doing her a favor by wanting to be in this relationship. Hell it's over now so I don't know why people are still so uppity about it
Thank you soooo much for making this video.
You said everything I want to say about this topic but better.
Just one point that makes the scene at the college and in Ambers bed room not bad in my eyes is just two small dialogue choices that change how you could see her information.
1. With the cyborg scene at the college, she asks William who was that aka the superhero that saved them. This implies she has no idea who Invincible is. So if she knew Mark was Invincible then why would she ask that question. She could be playing dumb her but then.
2. She says that she knew Mark was a superhero, not invincible. While this most likely semantics, if you believe she knew he was invincible then why not reveal it by saying his super hero name. It’s like saying I know Clark Kent is a superhero vs Clark Kent is Superman.
There's one point I feel you missed which is where the contention lies for me. When Amber figured it out, why didn't she confront Mark about it IMMEDIATELY? All of the anguish and destruction of their relationship in season 1 COULD have been avoided if Mark felt safe in confiding to these private parts of his life with Amber. Mark was constantly told by Nolan and Eve that revealing your secret identity to a partner is a BIG deal, and all encouraged him not to do it too soon. Even if you're not a superhero, this is something I think anyone in that universe could understand.
You talk about Mark being more open and transparent with Amber in season 2, and you're right. They have a significantly healthier relationship in season 2, BECAUSE Mark knows he can confide in Amber with those things. Amber communicated what she wanted but could have made things significantly easier to Mark by telling him "yes, you can communicate this". Once she figured it out, there was no valid argument for her continuing to hide the fact that she knew, when divulging that would have given her the transparency in the relationship she was seeking. Mark wasn't perfect, but Amber sabotaged the relationship herself.
Amber wanted to let Mark confess *his* secret and do the right thing. She waited for him-- for approximately 2 weeks-- to do so. Then broke up with him because he refused to.
@@KaiserNekoThank you for being one of the only people to understand that! 😭
@@KaiserNekotelling her the secret isn't right tho. Amber is just being petty
@@youngsterjonesshe gave her super powered boyfriend a chance to show trust in the relationship, and he didn’t, how is she supposed to stay in a relationship where her boyfriend DOESN’T trust her
@@ravencg7709 trust goes both ways. Why should Mark trust Amber with his biggest secret
You are absolutely right. She was annoying in season 1 but at the same time I get it. I mean she was a normal 17 years old girl with a boyfriend she knew was lying to her. of course she was been a little selfish and immature, that's natural, even though she acts like someone more mature, and she sees herself as someone mature, she's still a kid, just as much as Mark is acting immature by thinking life is that easy and that he can handle everything he has on his plate without considering how he failing might affect the people around him. And with that in mind it is really cool how writers developed both her and the relationship with mark. she is immature and have needs that mark can not meet because he's busy been a hero and she understands it. She tries to be supportive and act in a mature manner even though it hurts her and that's when we get to simpatice with her. She had to go through that process to learn that she can't be with Mark. Mark had to go through all the trauma that he had to handle throughout the season to learn that he can not have it all and he have to choose. To a point where I actually felt sad knowing they have to break up (and actually begging for them to break up at the end).
I’m glad this video is made and I desperately need a lot of invincible fans to see it. Especially because, (and A LOT of Invincible Comic Spoilers):
I remember seeing an Invincible short some weeks back related to Mark and Eve breaking up after Invincible returns from the dimension Robot trapped him in, because Eve didn’t want to put herself (and her unborn child) through a relationship and life of Mark disappearing for varying periods of time, something he does multiple like during the viltrumite war and when he was allied with dinosaurus, and having no idea when or if he’d come back alive. Eve even advised against Mark going into the other dimension multiple times because she was worried something bad would happen (and she was right). And yet everyone in the comments were saying Eve was unreasonable and narcissistic for not accepting that relationship and wanting Mark to be there for her and their child more and not needlessly risk his life due to paranoia. It was insane.
It always makes me so upset whenever I see so much hate about Amber. Like immediately you can just see she's a young girl trying to make it in the world and the person that she cares about can't be there for her as much as she needs, like I was really rooting for them but there was honestly like not a large possibility that they could stay together long-term like Debbie and Nolan
Good luck with this one Johnny
Never seen more people be so embarrassingly wrong
@@Johnny2Cellos I love your spirit but you're wrong
@@Johnny2Cellos You're fighting bigots, they can't be reasoned with.
@@BrendanSmallButera Holy hell, this is such a dogshit argument, and always will be. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a bigot. I guarantee you the amount of people who dislike Amber just because she's a black woman is far less than the people who stopped liking her after episode 7.
@@BrendanSmallButerai mean i wouldn’t call everyone who doesn’t like her bigots, people can just misunderstand what story is being told
this feels very similar to the hate skylar white gets, female character who doesnt always make the right decision in every situation but is generally just a normal woman get disproportionately hated due to deep rooted sexism
and I also think the fact that she's a black woman adds to that unfair treatment of the character
Oh 100% her writing in that one moment in s1 was bad but the hate felt so disproportionate and some of it is clearly coming from the fact that they race swapped her
Kaiser has been talking about doing a video about this for a long time so good to hear a lot of these points refined from when he mentioned them on the old Talkcast Podshow.
The thing that always bugged me about the stupid discourse that yes the the writing screwed Amber over with that outburst in episode 6. But then in the next episode when Mark reveals he's a super hero, it wasn't out of honesty. He was treating it like an ace in the hole to get out of trouble thinking it would wipe away the months of lies and neglect. Amber even called him out on it and he didn't even understand why it was problem.
That said how the relationship was handled in the second season was much better and really sweet. and heartbreaking when it didn't work out.
I honestly don't find an issue with how the show revealed that Amber knew about Mark because it was something that I understood as someone who's been in situations where a close friend or loved one will constantly lie to your face even though they never needed to. I'd rather have shows that challenge the audience's understanding. If they don't get why she's upset, they should look outside of themselves and see things from someone else's point of view. It's easy to not like a character when you don't follow their story and they come after the protagonist.
The fans are nicer to Mark because we see everything he goes through, while Amber just sees her boyfriend who lies, abandons her, and never tells her why until she decides to end things. She didn't feel trusted. It's not an overreaction to have someone you love never be there and randomly flake on you while giving you BS excuses.
This isn't even about Mark being the bad guy, more so it's a plot of him being a dumb high schooler who's in his first relationship.
I remember seeing all the amber hate and I think the thing a lot of people forgot to account for is that she is a teenager. I work as a teacher for teenagers and asking someone that age to deal with stuff is insane. I hadnt watched the show until recently. I did so in one binge over a week and honestly amber's whole approach is understandable. She is a good person and lets be real no one likes being lied to, hell Im surprised amber didnt suspect him of cheating on her given the context she had. I get why Mark lied, I do but at the same time if you omly have her pov he has been lying consistently, when she figured it out she was justifiably angry.
I think we forget how old these people are. I mean honestly i dont consider them full adults yet, and just think of how much crazy traumatic stuff has happened to them during their relationship.
Love the video Johnny just like always 😁
I have mixed feelings on Amber. I still have a couple issues with Amber, But I think the internet blew this whole situation out of proportion. Like, to a ridiculous degree. It’s kind of pathetic the level of burning rage so many people have for Amber. Was it kind of awkwardly written? Sure. But I’ve seen people unironically call Amber a Sociopath, and that’s just so freaking dumb.
My two big things are. She knew the entire time and still got mad at him about. Like really? You want him to get people out instead of holding the cyborg back from killing you, his best friend and the guy he liked? The second reason by the far the biggest one is coming to him in moment of weakness on his part after he was nearly beaten to death while trying to protect his world from his father while his mother got a live feed of it. I know she was thinking about the right thing when getting back to together with him after the fight for Earth but it was... not fair to either of them doing so. Do I think She's the most evil character in the series? Hell no. Do I think Amber is one of the more annoying characters? Yes, yes she is. I don't care about the fact she got mad at Mark for disappearing all the time (it was justified to be mad about something like that.), I got mad about the fact She knew what he was up this entire time and still got mad about him disappearing despite him disappearing has probably saved her life at least once. We want relationships to work out, we do but breaking up and getting back to together was going to inflict way more harm than any good Amber or Mark could have had together. Again. Is she an evil person? No. Is she an annoying one? Very much so. Also Mark is a Teenager too. Whatever change they brought to Amber was far too late for the character. I'd be surprised if we seen her more than once in season 3.
Reminder: She knew for two weeks, after over half a year of him being an objectively shitty boyfriend and stringing her along, even after she told him to break up with her if he couldn't commit.
She blew up because she was rightfully pissed at him for lying. Not about being a superhero, about being able to commit.
The scene still sucks though. But it pales in comparison to what Mark did for over half a year.
i pretty much had this perspective watching and am glad you made a video detailing this in such a very in depth way.
I was surprised and glad to see kaiser in this video both you guys did a good job
Amber is proof that female characters can't be complex or be flawed.
The fact that she's hated more than Nolan, a monster that slaughtered thousands of people just to try and prove to Mark that human lives are useless. I know Nolan is getting a redemption arc and does feel bad that doesn't excuse him for the lives he took.
Well, the show made it very clear that it was on Amber side so it wasn’t talking about being flawed because they believe she right secondly Nolan is a psychopathic demon Superman no one can relate to that, but people can relate to somebody being mean to them and that’s why people don’t like amber
Saying amber is proof of anything is a double standard. Plenty of people like Debbie despite her also being complex and flawed proves that there are some issues that Amber has that made people hate her. While I do agree that hate is overblowed. Saying Amber is proof of what you say she is just creates an entirely new problem.
Difference is Debbie is always on Mark's side, no arguing or difficulties. But Amber on the other hand... People love female characters as long as they love the male lead and don't get into fights with him (like Mikasa in AoT)
That's a bit hyperbolic. I think the strong reaction to Amber is a bit more nuisanced than that. Sure, logically we can all agree everything Omni Man did is infinitely worse, however it's so extreme and unrealistic that it doesn't register on the same level personally. We understand that Nolan forcing Mark through a train of innocent people is unfathomably awful, but as that implies we don't actually know how it feels. Contrast this with the Amber stuff, all of which is obviously minor especially in comparison, but is much more relatable and through that more personally affective. None of us know what it's like to have a secretly evil super dad, but lots of us know what it's like to have a partner be unfair to us, or seen the pain it causes to another. We see Mark go through a lot, from innocent teen to traumatized hero, and want good for him. So it's upsetting to see these unnecessarily unkind games being played with him. Honestly, what upset me the most was how out of character that collage arc felt for Amber, almost cheating and whatnot, but in the end, they're teens still figuring it out, they naturally make mistakes, suffer hypocrisy, and sometimes hurt people they care about as they learn how to be better. To be frank that doesn't stop in your teens either. In the end, what I see most from their relationship in season one is that they're both the problem, both their positions have justifications, and that it's clear that although they care about each other, they probably shouldn't be together, and that's okay. I honestly think a break up would be good for both their characters (especially Amber since it gives her a chance to be something other than Invincibles girl). That being said, some people do take this too seriously and get legitimately upset, not to mention who use this situation as an cover for far less savoury reasons for disliking the character... But it would be unfair to say that people who weren't happy with her in season one are just bigots, and especially unfair to say it proves that a black woman with strong opinions on fairness has no place in fiction.
@@hbluemole6941 I will be fair in saying that I think I took the original comment to literally... but I am already pretty sure Mikasa does argue with Arin a couple times when he puts his life in danger. (It is also kind of cheating to bring up season 4 but it does exist.) While people don't even like when Mikasa does this, that fact also resulting in Mikasa haters, I feel like a majority of people like Mikasa (that is just from my perspective though.)
While you can say that is because Mikasa has less of those moments... or that her moments are less pronounced; you would have a point in that.
I still just think it's something else.
Thank you so much for making this video. I watched invincible for the first time about a year ago and I really enjoyed it but I did not enjoy all the hate that Amber got. I went into the show knowing that she wasn't very well liked but avoiding the specific reasons and after watching it and then watching a few videos and seeing some arguments via comments, I quickly got annoyed with people missing the whole point. Everyone was so quick to act as if Mark had done nothing wrong and she was just being this entitled brat, when that was never the case.
Like quite honestly Mark was a terrible boyfriend. The fact that she knew about his identity actually makes it worse, because that means she knew that he was lying. From her point of view he was constantly abandoning her and failing to keep his promises to her all while making up crappy excuses, and he was fine with doing that. I do wish they would have played out that scene a bit better than they did but at the same time I also wish that the people watching remember that these two are 18/19-year-olds during that scene. If what you're expecting from a teenager is some supermature reaction in these type of situations, you are simply fooling yourself.
Anyways, thanks again for making the video I wish there were more like it
oh my god, THANK YOU, Johnny. people act like Amber is the devil, like she wasn't basically being neglected by her boyfriend for months. yes, she overreacted, but that's it. she OVERREACTED. that's all she did. i'm an Amber apologist
It was really just the cyborg episode that messed her up. She actively stops Mark from fighting the cyborg at first by having him help her with the civilians and then she yells at him immediately after the cyborg fight. This all makes sense if she doesn’t know he’s a superhero, but she does know so this whole scene is ruined with hindsight.
And she has a right to be upset, but this is obviously the wrong time and place. This is immediately after the fight and there’s tons of people around. He literally can’t be truthful right now or he’s revealing his secret to everybody.
Just change the scene so she asks Rick and Will for help instead and then Amber asks Mark where he went in private and Mark lies to her, which then prompts the breakup. In hindsight, this would make Amber look so smart and thoughtful because she distracted Rick and Will so Mark could slip away and get changed and she waits until they’re alone to give him an actual chance to come clean.
My only real issue with her is the fact that it's clear from the getgo that she's just his "first girlfriend." The character that's supposed to fill the girlfriend role while the real love interest slowly falls for him. Thus, the drama between can be frustrating at best simply because you're kinda just waiting for the fight that finally ends them.
Was not expecting a tfs crossover in one of your videos
A little late due to travel, but I gotta say that you raised a LOT of good points of the subject. And it was good to hear KaiserNeko's thoughts on the matter
Holy crap, a wild KaiserNeko appeared!
I really like when Johnny is outspoken about his left leaning politics. Like when he called out that one Futurama episode for being transphobic. Or talking about consent in this episode. He's routinely based when he gets political and id honestly like to see more politically minded content / media analysis from him.
Is consent a political statement?
@@TheElleAirRepublicans commonly oppose teaching kids about consent in schools. The rape epidemic and rape culture are massive political issues and consent is inherently a part of that. Consent shouldn't be political but it definitely is. And being so out spokenly pro informed consent like this is definitely a left leaning position to take.
@@TheElleAir i mean considering Dennis prager is upset his wife isnt forced to kiss him back, and Crowder cried about no fault divorce laws allowing his wife to leave him, i mean, yeah you'd be suprised
@@shaphier7057exactly. It shouldn't be political but Republicans made it that way by being so anti consent for no aparent reason.
Why is this left leaning? Transphobia bad and consent good should be the bare minimum for any normal human being?
Amazing video loved the segment by KaiserNeko, just small thing the Night Gwen Stacy died was in 1973 not 1963, love your content just wanted to reflect this cause this is pivotal in comics history for a number of reasons
I misspoke in my recording, unfortunately, and didn't catch it. @.@
okay, Johnny2Cosy maybe my new fav channel, i always need something to have on while drawing and that maybe my new go to!!
Johnny if you admit there's a misstep in the writing don't you think that might be why people hate amber?
I said multiple times the hate is disproportionate to the actions
@@Johnny2Cellos you did but have you considered the reaction to anything in general is always blown out of proportion. Not just Amber I recall a handful of people complaining about why omniman left the planet before they got consumed entirely by the memers.
I don't disagree to be clear but I find it a weird way to approach this as this is one of the few cases where the discourse at bare minimum has an understandable starting point.
1,:21 I hate the perpetuation of this misunderstanding by both people who despise and defend season 1 Amber.
Amber isn't actually angry at mark. She pretends to be. She has to, otherwise she reveals the fact that she already knows about Mark. If she reveals she already knows about Mark.
If she reveals she already knows about Mark, then she denies Mark the chance to come clean on his own and coming clean on his own is the ONLY way to save the relationship. Amber knows this. That's why she is giving him time.
But to give him time, Amber needs to play her role as having only the knowledge Mark believes she has. As far as Mark is aware, Amber is repeatedly being let down with broken promise after broken promise without any good reason provided as to why. This would make any girlfriend feel neglected, exploited and worthless. So that's exactly how Amber needs to act. Not only does she need to act that way, she has to do so knowing that Mark actually _chose_ for her to feel this way. Sometime intentions matter more than reality. If someone shoots a gun at you not knowing that it's unloaded, it doesn't actually matter much in you opinion of the person with the gun. They didn't know the gun was unloaded. They thought it was and fired anyway. Mark thought he was firing a metaphorical bullet that would make Amber feel worthless. This knowledge could itself make Amber feel worthless. Yet she kept giving him time to grow.
My only complaint about Amber has little to with her as a person, but more about her as a character (good people can be bad characters and bad people can be good characters. The complaint is that it was way too obvious Amber was always just a guinea pig until Mark could get a superhero girlfriend of his own and there's a beautiful redhead just _right_ there nearby. I was pleasantly surprised with how they handled the eventual breakup between the characters, but the critique remains. Still, I won't be too harsh about it. It was an interesting lesson to give Mark and one the audience sorely needed. So many people (understandably) cut Mark a ton of slack because he's a nice guy, the protagonist and has the extremely relatable problem of wanting to fit both work, school, family, friends and romance in his busy life. But that does not entitle him to keep his girlfriend in the dark about his _actual_ work life when he can see this secrecy is making her miserable.
...no.
She's mad at Mark because he can't be honest and chooses to tiptoe around her instead of being honest about his struggles. And in the end it almost leads to Anissa ripping her head off.
@@jordanloux3883 Point is, she's pretending to be mad about him leaving leaving her when she know he has a good reason for leaving her. She's pretending because she has to pretend.
@@oOPPHOothats just headcanon
@@youngsterjones It's the contextually best explanation for everything Amber does and says, but okay.
@@oOPPHOo then why did she never tell Mark that she was just pretending to be mad at him?
Random Kaiserneko crossover, wtf?
Never have I needed something so much and not realized until I received it.
Fantastic video! Both in the messaging and the epic Kaiser cameo. I didn't necessarily hate Amber but I did find her really annoying. Your focus on her value of honesty changed my perspective on the character. I'm also glad the writers didn't completely undo her character in S2, but just improved Mark's communication with her instead, which fixed their relationship instead
The writer's did her dirty in season 1. It was a little jarring to have them in Season 2 all cutesy like nothing had changed, but I don't remember a reconciliation. Was there something I had missed?
Also the claim he should have told her his secret is on par with "If you don't share PIN numbers then it's not real love." I hate that. They are dating, not getting married.
Also also, yah, Mark was not a shining example either. They were both pretty crappy people.
She was being lied to the entire first season, he kept zero promises to her, and in season 2 he was honest about what was happening in his life. It's that simple.
@@Johnny2Cellos But there was still nothing showing them reconciling. Mark got over being head face first into a subway car and eviscerating people with his body pretty quickly and Amber got over seeing Mark's father slaughter an entire city. You would think a good writer would have given them some kind of shared pain scene where they came together and cried on each other's shoulders.
That said, Amber was far, far better than Iris from the Flash series.
Crazy how he - at length - addresses these points in the video
@@Johnny2CellosShe could have moved on at any time. They weren't soul-bonded to spend eternity together.
@@selalewow What do you mean he got over that very quirkly. The entire second season was him still coping with that incident.
And the final episode was then reconciling. They share the pain of having someone important to them lying to them.
THANK YOU. I saw so many people hating her and I genuinely wondered if we saw the same show. Every complaint about her was all surface level stuff like her being frustrated that Mark couldn't help out in the soup kitchen or some other shit like that, and the worst part is that it's barely deeper than the surface level. All she wanted was to spend time with him, and when he consistently blew her off, she ended it. She wasn't even that bad when breaking up with him. It could've been handled a bit better, but she didn't get into a fight and made it clear that a relationship just doesn't work between them because she's so selfish for wanting a bit of attention
I honestly think people couldn't grasp it well because the show skips ahead like 6-8 months really fast. And they dont get that almost all of their dates end with him bailing or being late.
Ok, let's see.
She pretended to not know Mark's identity so she could throw a hissy fit at him and make him feel bad about saving people's lives.
She tried to cheat on him with the dude at the party.
The show STILL paints it as if she is the correct one on this.
Mark could have been an awful boyfriend, sure, she still is a terrible person overall.
@@kamikaze5528 she wasn't trying to make him feel bad for saving lives. She was making him feel bad for lying and stringing her along for months. Eve and amber tell him this and you guys still somehow missed this.
And cheat on him? My man they were broken up at that point. She had even dumped him before that episode until she saw that he was hurt. Everybody knew it without there having to be a declaration about it. Just read the room.
@@kingpinavatar nah that last part about not having a declaration is exactly why people are upset about that situation and any like it. Like how would I be sympathetic towards someone with horrible communication skills who also wants people to communicate with her
@@kingpinavatar like don't try to justify cheating
Man, that outro instrumental is still slapping! Is there a download somewhere?
I think what affects people's reactions as well is the whiplash they get from seeing a rightfully pissed off girlfriend who doesn't know why her boyfriend constantly breaks her heart and disappears become someone who's well aware of his reality. It's so subservise (and tbh shown in such a rash and abrasive manner in that scene) that people just have a gut reaction that sticks with them throughout the show
oh my god, THANK you, dude. the discourse around Amber is so brain dead, it's ridiculous
Good luck to you because some people can’t forgive her but can tolerate Anissa because they find her attractive lol
Anissa has a winning complexion... Most of the haters are racist incels...
wtf xD
This is the best video exploring this topic 10/10
The reason i didnt like her, was that she was angry at mark for "running away" but at the same time saying that she knew he was invincible. Its totally contradictary and that make me not understand what she feels. Season 2 however completely changed that and i like her (and rex) way more this season
One thing I hate about the argument in season 1 was people trying to hijack it into a race thing. She was bad in season 1. It had nothing to do with people being mad she was black
Amber: reacts like a person who's been lied to abt the entire reality of who her boyfriend is
Invincible audience: and I took that personally
No Amber character was poorly written in season one that’s all
What made me dislike amber was the scene where she humiliated him for vanishing, knowing that the superhero who conveniently arrived as soon as he vanished was probably him. If you knew, why the crocodille tears? Why berate him for risking his life to save his best friend? And why was THAT the last straw when everything was fineand dandy just before?
I always thought she figured it out afterwards
@@hbluemole6941 Nah, she said that she knew he was a superhero for months before he told her. Invincible's appearance at the cyborg-attack scene should've been all she needed to know which hero he was but she still gave him grief even though he'd just finished saving his best friend's life.
This is why Johnny is the goat. I'm sick of seeing people miss the point and then double down on their vitriol when it comes to Amber.
YES YES YES YES! Goddamn finally! I’m so glad somebody finally looked into the moral complexities of secret identities when superheroes date civilians. Another thing to keep in mind, which I wish the show had delved into a bit more in Season 1, is that Amber and the rest of the general public DON’T KNOW just how dangerous superhero work really is. The media sanitizes it for them (comic books that glorify them, the news keeping the massacre of the Guardians hush-hush for days, kids at school talking about superheroes like they’re celebrities, etc.). Even Mark didn’t know until his fight with the Flaxans. Even Debbie brushes off Nolan’s exploits as “just Tuesday.” Even though Amber has figured out that Mark is a superhero by the time he comes back from “getting hit by a bus,” she doesn’t know what his powers are or what he went through, so she probably presumed that him coming back with just a few bruises meant that it wasn’t all that bad. It isn’t until Omni-Man murders thousands of people on live TV that Amber and the rest of the civilian population finally realize just how dangerous it all is. I think some of this should have been delved into a bit more in S1, maybe even reveal to the audience that Amber knows before Mark finds out, but the amount of hate this version of the character has been getting compared to the far less interesting version in the comic has been driving me insane.
K but this level of explaining should be needed if all of this was intended to be communicated in the show. We shouldn’t have to bend over backwards and jump through hoops just to make sense of a characters motivations and behavior.
@@thrillcollectorsI don’t get why you’re phrasing this like we’re in disagreement. I said in my original comment that S1 should have delved into this more. I’m not at all saying that audiences should have to “bend over backward” to understand a character’s motivation or mindset. It just bothers me that so many viewers throw outright vitriol at a fictional character as if she’s a real person instead of recognizing that their frustrations actually reside with deeper writing issues.
she has always been my favourite character alongside debbie love her so much
Amber is a great character and I legit did get emotional over the breakup in S2
"I was thinking why do people hate her?" when watching and than that scene happened and frustrated me but I still liked her and kept thinking of a way to make sense of her reaction and I came to the same conclusion you did and it's really just that one scene if they just made her reaction clearer I don't think she would be so hated
It's almost like people don't understand the concept of dramatic irony that we might know all this stuff that Mark is doing, but Amber doesn't. Even if she said she knew he was a superhero, it's not like she knew the extent. It's just as likely he's rexsplode as he is Invincible. It's also just reasonable for someone to be upset someone made a commitment to you and then falls short time after time.
The biggest problem is that Amber is an awful person for her reactions, and the show portrays her as if she is the correct one. She KNEW mark was a hero, got upset at him without having a conversation and tried to cheat on him. That is NOT a nice person.
That's why people dislike her but give Omniman a pass. The mass murdering he does is never portrayed in a positive light.
Awful how?
@@KaiserNeko I don't know if you saw it before replying, I edited my first post with a better explanation.
But well, she actively tried to cheat on Mark. By itself that action makes her an awful person.
@@kamikaze5528She *flirted* with a dude after she'd essentially made up her mind to break up with her lying ass boyfriend.
That doesn't make her awful.
@@KaiserNeko Yes, it does.
She just didn't make out with the guy because he turned her down.
She was STILL in a relationship. Even if she was only flirting, it's still wrong.
Awful person.
Cheating is bad. That shouldn't be a controversial statement.
@kamikaze5528 We have no idea if she was looking to hook up or considering him as a reason to choose that college.
Like, they never explicitly say what her plan was. Just that she found a guy at a prospective college who might treat her well.
You assume she wanted to fuck him that night even though literally everything about her character says otherwise. So that sounds like a YOU problem.
This is exactly what I've been saying for years. People don't understand just how rational Amber is, especially for her age. But on the other hand, Mark is reasonable because he's a kid thrust into a planetary defender role. At the end of the day, both are WELL WRITTEN. They're kids that are smart and mature for their age, but inexperienced in relationships and doing what they can to be reasonable without having the maturity to just end it. Amber SHOULD have dumped Mark. Mark SHOULD have dumped Amber. But both wanted to hold onto the relationship even as both suffered.
I wonder what it says about men, dating, and society if characters like Amber are hated in popular shows?
I think it explains why 63% of young men are single.
It baffles me how much hate Amber gets even now. I understand the whole ‘I already knew you were Invincible’ scene feels a little mean spirited, but I totally get where she’s coming from. It is really unfair to Amber that she has to constantly be lied to and left alone by Mark even for things that are important to her. Mark is obviously doing the best he can with balancing her and his superhero life, but that doesn’t magically make it easy for Amber, especially when she feels lied to by Mark all this time.
Season 2 did a phenomenal job showing just why that’s hard for Amber even when she DOES know the truth. Not only can she never really spend time with Mark anymore, but she feels guilty about the time they do spend together since she knows he could be out there doing other superhero stuff. It’s just crazy to me that people still want to complain about Amber when the show has given ample reason to understand her situation. And all over a single scene, too! Invincible fans are able to recognize that Nolan changed from the genocidal viltrumite he started out as, why can’t they give the same courtesy to Amber?
AHHH YOU GOT IT COMPLETELY RIGHT!!!
I think another reason for this is Atom Eve, who not only is better to Mark but we all know is the endgame, and we see Atom Eve comfort mark instead of yelling at him for being in space for months
And this is because Atom Eve is somebody who knew about Mark's hero life, and therefore he was actually able to open up about his actual fears and anxieties. He wasn't giving Amber his real self or being honest with her about his real struggles.
she could be pretty bad at times in season 1 but she's not worthy of hate, especially with season 2 where she's basically a saint
Let's go! you brought on Kaiser!??
typical, defend the cheater
Amber never cheated what the fuck are you talking about lol
Haven’t seen video yet so will edit when finished But!!
I don’t think amber ever really did anything unjustified in season 2. She did her best to stay with the man she loved, but in the end she just couldn’t live in his world, and they ended it because they knew they had to not because they wanted to.
Speaking of animation, didnt you mention a while back you were going to cover the Scavengers Reign TV show? I thought it was excellent so is there a reason its taking a while? (I thought I'd ask)
great video, totally agree with you, love that couple