How BoJack Horseman Explores Generational Trauma
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2024
- If you've got deja vu, YES, this is an older video! But that video had terrible audio and some very ugly old borders I used to use. This is a re-recorded, remastered version with slightly improved editing.
Time's Arrow is one of the most unique and impressive episode of BoJack Horseman, and it gives us some much needed perspective on the life of Beatrice Horseman. Explored through her own dementia riddled mind, this episode showcases all of the most important and affecting events of Beatrice’s life, and pulls off the most effective twist in the entire series. But beyond making one of the series most antagonistic characters somewhat empathetic, Time’s Arrow is a heartbreaking look at the ways trauma can echo across generations. Enjoy this breakdown of this masterpiece from BoJack Horseman season 4.
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BoJack Horseman (2014-2020)
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This is once again an older video remastered with better audio, editing adjustments, and old borders removed! Also that SHINY new thumbnail. Enjoy!
Thumbnail is awesome 🔥🔥🔥🔥
I like the style!!
A lot more bold and striking that the old one. I like it!
In Germany we say: es hilft wirklich gut beim einschlafen.
It's great and I love your videos
im so glad you remastered this video!!!
Something I realized rewatching recently, her father profited off of her "cuteness" as a child, using her image for Sugarman, while denying her being able to enjoy the very thing her image was used to monetize. Continued when he tried to marry her off to Creamerman, by refusing to even use her name to finish the jingle he had thought of for their merging, which would have perfectly fit. He didn't want to even subconsciously suggest that she eat them.
and that connects to the way she sees Bojack, and likely children in general, as monetary or needing to earn value. "You'd better be worth all this." "You'd better grow up to be something great, to make up for all the damage you've done." "All the sacrifices I made, so that you could do this."
also wait lol I never thought about that jingle ending with "Bea!" I always thought the joke was how obvious a rhyme it'd be to use "me" like "save some for me!" but he couldn't even think of it because he's so creatively bankrupt :P
@@quininthecloudssadly, that even connects to how BoJack treats people as pawns decades later. Ex: when Sarah Lynn drank his vodka on set and he pressured Sharona into taking the fall, "if the show ends now, then all the shitty things I've done will have been for nothing" I.e. throwing Herb under the bus
I feel like a lot of BoJack Horseman's behavior can be summed up as the Sunk Cost fallacy
Wow! I don't know why I never realized this.
I feel like the most succinct way to explain the themes of Bojack Horseman is “if you don’t heal from what hurt you you’ll bleed on people that didn’t cut you.”
Ouch
That is one of the best quotes I’ve ever heard about trauma
I thought of this this morning. The reason the show ends how it does is because Bojack stopped dancing. The entire time Bojack in some way was preforming, but sitting on that roof is the end. He stops dancing, and the curtain falls. The show stops, because he’s done preforming for the people in his life. We don’t get to see how Bojack changes because that’s not a part of the performance he put on.
This makes so much sense! I'd always wondered why the show ended how it did; kinda felt like it was incomplete somehow, but this closes things nicely.
@@mistingwolfThe show was also cut 2 seasons short by Netflix I believe
so that's probably part of why the ending felt quick
I don't know. He did say he was still going to perform for "The Horny Unicorn" and he was even organizing a theater group while still in jail.
The way you interpreted the final episode is beautiful. 🌺💖 The calm energy of that episode could represent Bojack's spiritual transformation, I think. When Diane ends her friendship with Bojack..he doesn't fight it. Doesn't try to hold on or anything. He may not be happy about it, but he understands that his behavior broke it. He accepts the situation, which in comparison to the previous episodes, is incredible. 😊
I hope that’s how it ends! BoJack really needs to stop performing 😭
"Don't stop dancing", "time arrow doesn't stop" and "keep running don't ever look back" are three really bad teachings for three different little kids who had to endure trauma year after year without time for reflection and compassion. Don't think, suppress feelings and do what is expected of you.
Yeah and I think secreteriat's advice to bojack is very overlooked cause it's back in season 1 the "least" good season but I think that's one of the best scenes in the show
The highlight of the episode is BoJack's parting words to his mother, especially the fact she'd never knew how ice cream tasted. She may have been broken, but she still knew the memory was a hollow one.
I have a lot of trauma. My family has been abusive and toxic. Plenty of it is generational. I've been determined to break the cycle for years now. I've even broken a couple. While time's arrow does not reverse or stop, I can dull the arrow. I will not harm others like my family has harmed me. I simply refuse. Dulling the arrow is on me.
That’s very noble of you, I’m sorry you had to go through that.
Right there with ya bud, stay strong
Same. I like to say "it's not my fault that this happened, but it IS my responsibility to heal"
And the good news is after a certain point, what might have required a concerted effort will become like second nature.
I’m sorry that you had to experience that. You’re very brave for not continuing the cycle
Another thing about the flashbacks with Corbin, I didn't notice you mention but the color change in the scene. Once Corbin starts talking about his passion and B feels that, the colors change from muted and dull to fully vibrant and full.
Not sure if anyone highlighted this, but in the final scene of Beatrice and Bojack, she struggled to think about how the ice cream tasted, since she was never allowed to have it, she never truly didn’t know what it tasted like
That new thumbnail is really terrifying but artistic to the theme of Times Arrow and Beatrice's life
bojack has a lot of sad moments but the moment that absolutely broke me was young Beatrice's toy being destroyed
same here. Also in Free Churro, "I'm your SON! All I HAD was you!" I tear up every time
@@quinintheclouds true :(
@@crowpen that whole episode is way too relatable, even though both my parents are still alive.... hits close to home
Love that you revisited this one!
My little theory about this episode involves Beatrice’s unreliability as a narrator continuing to apply even in ways that I didn’t think about the first time around. Corbin Creamerman? She conveniently has a change of heart about him right before she finds out she’s pregnant. Suddenly, the clouds part, his eyes are suddenly large and soulful, and she begins to see a kindred spirit in him. My theory is that she sometimes thinks back to her debutant ball and wonders if life would be different with Corbin Creamerman. Maybe he would be that kindred spirit. Maybe he would be that brightness. But her memory has warped if so that she remembers him as this amazing person she was destined to be with if Bojack hadn’t existed. Truth be told, he could have been anyone. But he became an idealized version of her life.
A character whos always excluded from the conversation about the Horseman/Sugarman family trauma is Joseph, Beatrice father. He wasn't just an evil man, full stop. He was also a product of his environment and upbringing, traumatized in his own ways im sure. But he's not really a focus, we don't learn his story, so in isolation we get to see him as just a evil, cruel man who hurt everyone around him. Just like how BoJack viewed his mother. Pobably how BoJack is seen by the people around him, too. We are gifted with BoJacks story, we understand the nuance and trail of logic, but that isn't an excuse for how he treats said people. Same for Beatrice. The generational trauma didn't start with Joseph, its just where our story picks up.
Ironically, she blames every last bit of her sorrow on Horseman. At the very end of her life, Bojack Horseman was the only one willing to show her the last bit of kindness.
My brother and I are scared that we will, unintentionally or not, pass on trauma our parents caused us to our kids. Because of that, both of us have been put off having children.
We’d never want to hurt our family, but we have seen that we unfortunately do share tendencies with our parents despite our attempts to be better.
This is exactly where I’m at. I’m 30 years old and in therapy, but my trauma is still severe enough that I still can’t sleep through the night. It’s very clear that the trauma is still present for me, and until I know I’ve healed enough to keep that trauma in check, I refuse to have children. One way or another I WILL break the cycle.
Same story here. The more I grow up the more I realize that I'm repeating behavior from my parents. I don't have the money to go to therapy so I just won't have kids
If you feel like you want to be a parent, but are not sure how you would handle being one. I heartily recommend looking into being a Foster placement. There are plenty of kids and teenagers out there that need help. You can work with your local agencies to start out as an emergency placement, and over time, if you feel comfortable, you can extend out into longer term placements.
Finding emergency placements for kids is hard to do but is crucially important. And even if you do it once and decide never again, you'll still have helped one child on the path to dealing with their own trauma.
@@darby2314 huh... that's something I'd never seriously considered before for my future, but in spite of my trauma, I'm great with kids and full of compassion. Fostering might be the way to go if/when I'm ever financially stable enough to do so
just wanted to add, bojack's parents are both heavy drinkers, which probably led to his addiction. its also interesting to note how diane's dad and pc's mom were also alcoholics, and we see pc and diane using alcohol to cope a few times in the show. very interesting
Beatrice is one of my favorite characters due to how well shes written and because shes a great example of how fiction can make us feel pain for people we see as nothing but evil. The line "your sickness has infected everything" feels like it encapsulates the doll being a final loved being more than anything else could. Love and the sudden absence of it killed her mother, her father had little so was able to avoid it, and whek she allowed a little of it to come out, it screwed her. Literally.
I need an AU where Beatrice makes it seem that Bojack was his', they disnt even marry yet, but she could try to have sex with him, yes, she vomited on him, but maybe HE is a kind enough man to not judge Beatrice 's pregnancy, maybe he'd say he's not prepared to be a father, but I like to think they both wouldnt end up hating bojack
I need an AU about that with ups and downs and I just want to see a Bojack that isnt our Bojack to show how small or big decisions change everything
I still think this is some of your best work on one of the best episodes in the series, hence I’m watching the remaster immediately. Thought you did a great job with The Old Sugarman Place, and there’s a reason these episodes resonate so deeply with fans: they’re incisive looks into characters that reframe much of how we see them without forgiving them for some of their worst behaviors. That’s not an easy line to tread, but this series did it multiple times.
I’ve rewatched the whole series twice and both times, when Bojack takes pity on his mother and offers her a beautiful, fake reality, I was devastated by his kindness and I cried for 10ish minutes.
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.
-Philip Larkin, "This Be The Verse"
JESUS CHRIST, that thumbnail is SO MUCH more horrifying than the original. Good work!
God, everytime I see her babydoll burning in the fireplace, it gets right to me. This show was amazing and should be a blueprint to all who want to use animation as a medium that adults can be entertained by.
The voice of Joseph is close enough to Johnny that I thought he was dubbing over Josephs voice
Bojack Horseman is such an amazing cartoon! I love shows, movies and books that make me feel all the feelings. Laughter, sadness, etc.
I got chills from that ending sequence…
One of my favourite episodes. Honestly, I would love to know more about Corbin Creamerman's life. Maybe it's just because I latch on to background characters, but he seems like someone who could also have had an interesting life.
The front picture is beautiful (and terrifying)
One thing I’ve thought of a few times is that because Beatrice marries young, bojack has probably met his grandparents, which can’t be good for bojack. Bojacks dad works for Joseph so they have a relationship
The ending sent me CHILLS 😭😭 I don’t know why but my goodness all those quotes really scared me
Excellent video! Here's another example of generational trauma I noticed while watching:
While its most obvious in Hollihock how Beatrice's toxic mentally on diet and weight trickled down. I think its also important to look at how this mindset influenced Bojack himself.
We know from episode 1 that Bojack is insecure about his weight and he frequently over indulges on sweets like cotton candy, muffins, oreos, etc. This could be a trauma response to Beatrice restricting him from sweets as a child (although there's no evidence of this in the show - that I know of). Alternatively, it could be a reaction to Beatrice's attitudes on weight. Some children who are denied, or shamed for eating "junk food" will become unable to self regulate as they are older. This is because, they're likely to binge the forbidden food as soon as they are out of their parents sight.
you know I watched this episode to my mom and I talk to her about that scene when Beatrice tells Henrietta to give up her baby for adoption. I’ve heard a lot of people on the Internet argue that this was one of it’s not the worst things Beatrice ever did.
But my mom actually thought she was trying to be nice. Through her own experience she tried to help another young woman not fall into the same trap. And to be honest, looking at this video makes me think that it was the nicest thing Beatrice ever did not just for Henrietta, but all for Hollyhock.
Henrietta was able to get her education and become a nurse , she wasn’t a struggling, single mother with a baby. Stuck with some deadbeat dad that ends up dead by the time she 7. Hollyhock didn’t end up like Bojack, she has a loving family that supported her on the journey and was there for her.
And at the end, she had to meet her mom and they have whatever relationship they want , and for a little while she at least had a nice older brother that cared about her. This decision wasn’t perfect, but let’s be real. It was probably the best case scenario for her.
She did suffer, but at least the Horsemen generational trauma can end with Bojack. That whether intentional or not, might be the best thing that could possibly happen to her.
oh! Johnny, just noticed this small detail in your video regarding how Beatrice was drugging Hollyhock.
at 9:05 if you pause the scene and look at Hollyhock's figure you notice her pants fit around her waist, but when you look at 9:11 and pause, you'll notice her pants look loose like it doesn't fit her anymore, this might have been the animators trying to subtly show us that Hollyhock was losing weight just before the reveal that Beatrice was drugging her.
oh my god, you’re right!
New old video! Yay! And loving the new thumbnail! Much more raw and reflective of the theme
Whoever made that thumbnail is a goddamn great artist. Jesus christ, it's brimming with emotion. It looks so... _painful._ It's some art that just gives you that MMMPH, you know?
Probably one of the most powerful episodes in Bojack Horseman
Holy shit you made the thumbnail more raw
That edit at the end over the doll was incredibly haunting.
Fantastic work as always.
Came for the thumbnail, stayed for the title.
Idk who drew the thumbnail but theyre so talented i love it
Funny thing, I'm a recent subscriber and was just about to get to that one while going through the backlog. Now I have this spiffy version to enjoy
VALIDATION
s4 is so peak. i can’t even remember how much ive rewatched this show but every time it hits the exact same. and every time i still manage to notice something new.
My question is this, why did Beatrice keep confusing Bojack for Henrietta? I understand her not remembering Bojack, but confusing her for their former maid?
I watched my Grandmother, who raised me for a large chunk of my life, succumb to altzheimers. This show weirdly helped me find closure (among other things) through the way they depicted Beatrice's dementia and story. I only regret not truely understanding my Grandmother's situation until after her death, as I would've like to help her turn back time's arrow a couple of times so she wouldn't have had to suffer so much.
Thanks for all the amazing videos, my guy!
the new thumbnail is so beautiful!
I just watched 2 back to back live videos with Kitty Monk talking about Joseph AND Honey! Wow! Times Arrow is dark!
Glad I NEVER had parents like that! At first my mother WAS kinda like Beatrice but she recently calmed down, we've settled things between us and is now basically best friends!
when you really think about it, Josep was a huge asshole, he literally single handedly was the cause of a lot of suffering, even if indirectly, he was literally the devil
I wonder sometimes if the creators of Bojack come to UA-cam to enjoy your work and Ravioli’s art. The way you both treat this show is filled with such beautiful understanding. Thank you for making these remasters.
Hooray!! new bojack video!!
New old video!
@@Johnny2Cellos XD
I adore this show and its haunting yet beautiful way of storytelling
Just came to see if this man's still uploading about bojack and yup, still at it even as recently as 4 hours ago
These updated versions of your old Bojack vids are quite enjoyable Johnny!
Hearing you analyze with new points and views on these subjects is just excellent!
I'm going to be honest, I haven't watched this video yet. This show has absolutely hit the nail on the head as far as generational trauma, and it hits very close to home for me, as I have a completely emotionally unavailable mother that has caused a great deal of grief for me. "I was your son, all I had was you," hits me like a ton of bricks. The entire churro episode nails it. When Bojack talks about his mom, and how when she was alive, there was always a possibility that she would suddenly say... I see you. But now that she's dead, that chance is gone. Ugh. It speaks to my soul.
Nice! I want to mention while you might still see it that even though I have never seen this show, I appreciate your breakdowns of the themes and also especially love the art of Beatrice used as the thumbnail for this one. Don't know where it's from, but it's very cool.
I have a similar family story to Beatrice. Lots of unaddressed family pain, forced adoptions, institutionalizations. Beatrice makes me think of my Great Grandmother, who passed in April. I'm trying to pick up the pieces from what her mothers mother's era did to our line and still changing the dressings on the wounds. Literally a century of pain handed from one woman to the next.
loving the updated breakdowns!
Thanks for these videos man. I watched the crap out of Bojack years ago. And as much as I loved it, I didn’t appreciate everything that went into it until I discovered this channel.
Love that I can finally hear these analysis better than before! Thank you Johnny
The way you analize this show has always amaze me,it really shows the love and care you put to your videos,really good job jhonny
I adore the way you explain and break things down
I have only watched some episodes out of order on the tv and it never really catched my attention but the more i learn about the show the more i think that i should watch it
Absolutely love how you do this. Just a treat. Thank you for always giving me more boj content. It means more to me than you could know.
I want to thank you for your BJH videos because they're really helpful and calming :3
I'm from Poland. My grandma when she was a kind, lived thru world war II. She lost her sister. After world war II, communism has arrived.
My grandpa's family was sent to Siberia. Father of my grandpa was in political prison.
I'm 22, and this things still effect me, because they effected to my mother.
The cycle of generational trauma is very hard to break. It goes through your roots, through your blood and its not easy to see this.
I enjoyed this show a lot for the first couple seasons, then dropped off and came back and finished it once the series was complete. It's not that I don't enjoy the later seasons, but man, it got way heavier than I expected. It's for that reason I haven't been able to rewatch it, it's just too real man. My dad was dying from cancer when I finished it. the View From Halfway down hit me like a ton of bricks. Just thinking about that episode makes me tear up still
We need more shows like Bojack. It actually kind of helped.
I love ur analysis videos, I’ve watched a couple other channels but I really like how you go deep and explore the different themes instead of just summarizing the episode
THE THUMBNAIL IS SO GOOD OMG
Yay, Johnny uploaded again! I sure hope its a brand new, fresh episode!
sorry
@Johnny2Cellos LOL nothing but love! One of your best character analyzes, anyways
That remastered thumbnail is a fine piece of work *chefs kiss* 👌
I fucking love this show
I've been rewatching some of your videos just yesterday so this is a frightening coincidence of a reupload (but awesome tbh)
Goddamn that ending was chilling
The thumbnail is now even more disturbing. It gives off the aura of “dementia riddled brain” and how all the colors and recognizable shapes are difficult to distinguish. It’s really disturbing… but good disturbing.
Jesus your outro kicking in after the video ending was jarring lmfaoo
I am so upset that Bojack continued the cycle with Sarah Lynn
Maybe I should watch the whole of Bojack for like the 8th time...
That last moment always gets to me, holy hell.
One of the most subtle details I loved in this episode was Beatrice stuttering/hesitating when Boujack asked her about how the ice cream tasted. Due to the societal expectations of her time, she didn’t have ice cream as a child, and likely carried that into adulthood and old age. So when Boujack asks her about the ice cream, she doesn’t know what to say because she’s never had ice cream before.
Times arrow neither stands still nor reverses; it deepens like a coastal shelf.
So get out while you can. And don't have any kids yourself.
Wooo just another reason to rewatch
I don’t know what it says about me but I sympathize with Beatrice a wholeee lot, probably even more than Bojack.
Omg the audio mash at the end was HEARTBREAKING
i love you, youtube creator Johnny 2 Cellos
My favorite episode!!
Now all we need are 2 episodes to explain Joseph's behavior so we can feel sympathy for him.
It isn't justifying it, it's explaining why it happened. Media literacy is dead and you're proof of that
I’ve got this on my watchlist
That isn’t really a nervous tick. It is standard self soothing behaviour.
RISE AND SHINE PEOPLE!!!! new Johnny bojack video just dropped!!! :3
Ariana Alexis has a really good video defending Joseph Sugarman about how he is a man of his time not just a bad person and how he just does what he thinks he is right
That thumbnail is nightmare fuel and i really love it
That ending...
I just looked at the thumbnails side by side and it's night and day for its differences. Ha Literally, the old one had a white background and the new one had a black background. It feels like the blueprint was made around 3 years ago, even if it wasn't.
Sometimes I relate to Bojack. Whenever I remember the crazy, screaming arguments with my mother, I feel like she made me flawed when she neglected me in my childhood. And I can't forgive her still, even though I know that that's what happened to her when she was young as well.
My grandmother is similar to beatice, being vile, spiteful,harsh and cruel. She pretty much hated my mother and saw her as competition which led to her treatinf her grandchildren horribly. My grandmother now going through Dementia feels so weird now..
INT. SUB is one of my favorite episodes. i hope to see that one done sometime
I feel like you could put the end of that on a one hour loop and play it on your new channel, Johnny 2 Tense. You know, for when people need to feel... uncozy.
I honestly think that Beatrice unquestionably believes that she is being truthfully loving to Henrietta. Even from the first watch, I didn't doubt Beatrice's intent. She hates her husband. She doesn't care about him or his reputation - he already has a terrible reputation. And she knows what she endured being the mother of Butterscotch's child. It's manipulative, for sure. But I could argue that in her heart and in her own beliefs, this is the kindest thing Beatrice had done for anyone. And I mean.... Hollyhock was adored by her dads versus what Bojack had. I think Beatrice will always feel she did the right thing. And that's what I love about this show. And I adore your videos!
Bojack leaving Beatrice with a pleasant memory at the care home broke me.
Hurt people hurt people, but everyone’s hurting, and everyone simply wants to be seen. I. SEE. YOU.
Ik this is a serious video, but no one brings up how Joseph Sugarman killed those two people in Ireland, yeah it was an accident, but he shouldn't have been driving recklessly
Woah woah woah when is this mentioned
@@YourLocalNobody420 Look up the actor that played Joseph Sugarman.
Honestly i want to a Bojack Horseman where Beatrice did choose the other guy.