The problem of academic dishonesty in schools.

[@EducatingForLiberty]

Full Video:
bit.ly/3SvWgpY

[@kirika20]

I have a high proficiency in English writing tests. I can write English very well, I always get A+ in essays but in conversation? I'm a mess, why? I learned English by reading books. I write so well but I can't pronounce most of words I'm writing so it's very hard for me to speak English when I don't know how to pronounce the words. I don't cheat in my tests.

[@dreiaparratt787]

This is an extension of PragerU? Because this sounds a lot like right-wing nonsense

[@said8784]

@@dreiaparratt787 This channel is definitely propaganda.

[@cheez8639]

College care about tuition, end of story.

[@5minutecalms]

English in India currently has deviated a lot from standard English and become its own thing. (speaking wise)
In colonial British time our English used to be very standardised and actual "British English" rather than the colloquial 'desi' English we speak today... U can watch Nehru's or Sarojini Naidus clips online; their intonation, accent etc was near perfect to actual English.
On the other hand to understand how modern Indians speak listen to Deepika or Sharukh Khan- it's a very different sort of English.
Thus today a lot of Indians find it very hard to follow the speech of English-native foreigners.

[@himanshudgp]

I am from India and while I am not denying what she is saying . I will tell you this , in India if someone wants to crack English proficiency tests , they will take it as a subject rather than a language . So they would memorise all the grammar and rules of language which would help them get good grades for English but at the same time they won’t be good in conversing in that language .

[@RojaJaneman]

It’s not much different here. She’s lying. There’s a lot of fraud in USA schools. Lots. Pharma, telecommunications, oil, banking, military industrial complex r all fraud based industries. Hollywood/tech is full of such people.
College kids can’t function at high school level. Colleges don’t even require SATs anymore in many cases. And more r following. If they applied real standards it’s d USA students that’ll suffer d most.

[@Davey1022]

And spoken English is different from written English . You can pass a written exam but need not be proficient in speaking English . However I will not deny cheating when you can pay money for the seats. All college need is money .

[@krismikewill]

When studying for a PhD in classics, you also had to have passed "reading exams" in French and German. I took the requisite courses, complete with grammar and reading selections to engage secondary literature in the field, and could not carry on a conversation to save my life. But, let me write or read....

[@kevinkenny5663]

My apologies for the obvious racism in this thread. This woman is kind of making me sick. Career that I have puts me in fairly frequent contact with student transplants from India and Pakistan and all it took really was some time to get used to the accents. And ironically I find it for the most part that these kids speak better English than most kids on this side of the world. They know all of the grammatical rules and speak accordingly.

[@kbab3333]

Exactly !!!

[@Tsicloh]

The issue is not cheating at TOEFL.
It's the fact that passing the TOEFL exam doesn't mean you are good at conversational English. English is my third langauge and when I went to an English-medium university, the first few months I was struggling to speak (not to read) but by month two things were much better.

[@sergeykolesnik1171]

The same about IELTS. You can't get a high score without preparation for the test regardless of your language skills.
However I would not blame IELTS or TOEFL specifically. It is an expected side effect of any standardized testing.

[@Mrmaverickism]

The Chinese degrees are bunk the Chinese academic tradition facilitates cheating, and cheating on tests is a very ancient Chinese tradition

[@anthonycraig274]

I had a friend from Greece who had the same issue. Couldn’t even understand the lectures. This is because, English that’s taught sound very different to native spoken English.

[@Elendrian]

@@anthonycraig274And god bless you if you’re in the South. No English class can prepare you for southern dialect.

[@hoangly8557]

Yeah I agree, and the fact that she used English proficiency and not a normal academic test feels kind of racist to me. As an international student, this just feels ignorant

[@warriorway5287]

I teach esl in a Korea university. I've been here for 15 years. The reason for high English test scores and low speaking levels is not due to cheating. Students spend thousands of hours on English studying before getting to uni. However, the classes only focus on writing, reading, and grammar. Classes are taught fully in Korean by Korean teachers. There are no classes on speaking, listening, or creative writing. Speaking and comprehension is a skill like anything else and it too needs its thousands of hours.

[@nicholassingleton6488]

Why don't they speak English in class though? Foreign language classes in America try to teach grammar and essay writing, aswell as conversation and culture.

[@wildkeith]

I’ve taken foreign language classes at American schools taught by American teachers and can speak them. Why is that not possible in Asian countries?

[@ayingg220]

​​culture

[@alexurbanchek7679]

Seems like a pretty bad way to learn a language on a practical level…

[@kirkwcowgill]

Isn't ESL banned in Korea now? At least for younger students?

[@markeverett7630]

Foreign students pay way more tuition than domestic students. Colleges want international students more than anything. Interesting conundrum isn’t it?

[@RojaJaneman]

It’s like legacy students. They’re party kids.

[@revanth3508]

Hence flood gates are opened for money

[@justkiddin1980]

And this whole discussion is bullshit because it doesn’t matter…The whole education system is poisened with woke ideology and the biggest financial interests.. The product is a detriment to society as a whole and we first need to adress that problem…

[@kathyflorcruz552]

Really?? How many are anchor babies & have duel citizenship & also get "free" grants when they jump the borders, come on expired visa, claim fake asylum, and get "free" money for educational?.MILLIONS DO. MILLIONS. THEY GET IN ON AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AS WELL. Cry me a river.

[@johnserosanguineous1886]

@bina nocht Guess all of my bio professors cheated on English tests 🤷‍♂️

[@danyvarghese12]

I can tell you that I have personally known people who can write English but can't speak it because they took it in school as a subject to learn but not as a language.

[@LickMyMusketBallsYankee]

And why would a language need to be a subject rather than just a means of communication like everywhere else in the world? To facilitate the ease of getting into International schools that require an English test. Your forms of education in your country are so backwards, foolish, and ineffective that the institutions themselves find it easier to manipulate external vetting procedures in other schools for Indian students. Instead of just actually teaching them.
That's a bigger joke than the state of your plumbing. 1 billion people and one toilet every three blocks or a traintrack if you're not lucky.

[@assaqwwq]

I can tell you that what shes actually saying is that immigrants are bad, because shes white and she knows better. It's subtle, but it's there. You just gotta be proficient in english

[@recuerdos2457]

The test includes listening skills tho, you would not be able to get high score without the ability of listening 🤔

[@spenceryoung1427]

It is always a language. That’s bizarre you can be taught the same exact language but one version of the class you memorize everything but the other version you learn the language? That doesn’t make any sense. You’re learning the language if you memorize the words and learn the grammar. Why would they even offer teaching only a little bit of the language? It’s not enough to be useful so why reach it

[@purplecrayonismine2585]

​​@Recuerdos the listening section is always done by someone with a perfect accent in a perfect environment with no distraction or extra sounds, real people don't speak like that, I'm saying it as someone who qualified as C1 (advanced level) on IELTS (the British toelf).
I actually do have experience listening to english speakers on a business setting as it is part of my job although it is not my first language, I know the difference, it sounds bananas but that's how it is, also you can barely pass the listening section but have perfect scores in writing and reading section and bump your score that way

[@thereisa]

Anyone who speaks more than one language understands that passing a written exam and carrying on a live conversation are two completely different skills.

[@foxmercuryearthylog120]

.... but the proficiency exam, like IELTS, isn't a written exam... it's a speaking, writing, listen and reading exam.
What exam are you even talking about?

[@stargazer7987]

Being an Indian student in Canada, I would agree with her. Many IELTS loopholes exist. I know many Indian students who have high scores but can't even construct a proper sentence. Having academic dishonesty devalues the hard work of honest high scorers.
There is talent and potential in Indians to be CEOs of top multinational companies. Therefore, let's avoid cheating.
Without cheating, you aren't worthy of emigrating abroad.
All the best for future aspirants

[@oldtrojanskin]

She needs to tell the truth that many American students leave college and university with qualifications that are barely worth the paper they're written on.

[@Person-mh6xq]

That’s a different topic and not what she’s discussing.

[@oldtrojanskin]

@@Person-mh6xq WRONG. Stop avoiding the issue, what are you scared of? Lets tell the truth if she will not.

[@obrecht72]

You feeling cut a little bit close to home?

[@ForgedPlanetTV]

@@oldtrojanskin The average US college student earns significantly more after graduating than the average at their age. Saying otherwise is delusional cope. You look broke on your channel though, please stop dragging down others and improve yourself.

[@user-jl4yv9rf2z]

@@oldtrojanskin let me guess, you are personally affected and now must flaunt your dissatisfaction everywhere and make all remotely relevant topics about you instead of listening or contributing 😊

[@baronceli]

Passing English tests and actually communicating in English are two very different things. I talk from experience.

[@purplepigment4283]

Speak*

[@dbuckleton]

@@purplepigment4283 Hey man, the correct grammar on that one is 'speak'.

[@morienouta]

As an ESL teacher, I am painfully aware of what institutions demand as "proof of English proficiency" is not what's required to survive, let alone study, in an English speaking country, and that is a failing in the way we teach foreign languages and the test we provide as proof of proficiency.

[@JustinFromMD]

@@purplepigment4283 That's the joke

[@kAY-yl5en]

Whenever you are answering a question that requires you to construct sentences, it tests your ability to speak as well. Your accent may be off, but atleast you can get the words through which passes for working knowledge in the language.
Written and Spoken tests may not be the same, but they test the capabilities in language usage which in this case is English.

[@momoja92]

I feel like this needs more context. As an ESL teacher for Asian students, I can assure you a lot of these countries teach grammar and vocabulary to a higher level than most US students. This gives them a high proficiency in exams. However, most of them have not had the opportunity to raise their communicative proficiency and will have trouble with interactions in English. Therefore, we must be cognizant to what is being tested.

[@LickMyMusketBallsYankee]

Considering that top comment from an Indian mentions Indians (SW Asian) only learning the basic grammar rules of English to just barely pass frequently. Along with the high level cases of food saftey fraud at the government level in East Asian countries such as China. I highly doubt they are really learning it and just not speaking it enough. You're either lying to save face or just don't recognize the discombobulated system because of a cognitive bias from working in that field. 🤷‍♂️

[@mahtajr5157]

Yes, precisely. As someone who has studied English as a foreign language for more than a decade, I can read and listen to almost anything but I still can't speak fluently or write confidently. Multiole choice questions that test grammar vocabulary and comprehension is the norm and essays are never used for evaluation. The only opportunity that I have to speak any English is in the classroom of 20 students, if there's any time for it.

[@jayzee4097]

The problem is rote memorization in classrooms without the activities required to build on the grammar item. If I’m teaching the present simple, I’d expect kids to start tossing in other words they know into the pattern so I can circle and correct. After, I’d assign questions where they’d have to get creative with the pattern and use it in a new context in my written assignment which I would keep building on over the term, but many schools don’t do this, or have students apply the words to what they know so they can’t use them.

[@andychrist2922]

I have also experienced in my country that some visitors complain that "we don't speak Oxford English "

[@lillymanta7642]

Thanks so much for adding this comment. It gives true perspective. This type of false videos can cause so much hate for Indians living in America. Not to mention Rise on Hate crimes. These kids coming from India and China have worked hard to learn vocabulary and grammar but they may not know how to speak well but this lady in the video can’t question their integrity by calling them cheaters

[@killingmonkey11]

I've met a few foreign students here in Washington. One kid was straight from Korea and didn't speak English in 9th grade. Still made friends, did all of algebra and geometry by Christmas break and passed us in algebra 2 second semester. Even when his written English was on par with us if not better, he still refused to speak publicly. He was afraid we'd mock him and well we would, but we'd also encourage and correct his pronunciation. Things he didn't get like the word moose aren't English, it's native American and doesn't follow English rules for pluralization. We laughed when he pluralized moose into mooses, it was a cute honest mistake. We had to explain to him that we've all been there with this dumb language and that with any other animal he'd be correct. One bear many bears vs one moose many moose. Point being fear of public speaking is a big factor when the language isn't your first. Just because you can write proper English flawlessly doesn't mean someone will understand you fluently with an accent.

[@ritwikjs]

I dealt with this first hand in England. I worked hard to get a good TOEFL grade to get into my masters university for journalism. We needed a 7.5 in all three categories. My JOURNALISM course had 20/26 students from mainland china who could barely hold a conversation in English. I lost marks on group assignments because their English was abysmal. I got called racist for bringing this up to my course leaders. They got so much money from Chinese students and they can't threaten that in the slightest

[@abhayjha6569]

As an Indian student who has gone through the typical Indian education system, Scoring good in grammar exam and carrying on a conversation in English are two very different things , in our part of world we are taught grammar rules and tenses from early middle school and everyone rote learn it and that's the reason for good grades in TOFEL or ILETS..

[@derin111]

Your English grammar suggests to me that you were possibly an exception to your own rule. 😅

[@abhayjha6569]

@@derin111 could you plz elaborate a bit!!
My own rule?

[@zahilakhan6496]

I am from Pakistan and it's the same here, we can read English quite well but people have difficulty in conversing in English as it is not practiced widely especially when talking to someone whose native language is English.

[@LickMyMusketBallsYankee]

And the only reason your taught that is because Indian schools are pathetic jokes that base their system of education on outsourcing students elsewhere. Every other country just teaches the entire language, you're literally the only one to treat it as a separate subject and isolate the grammar rules only. The only reason you would be given solely grammar courses and not actual linguistics is if they naturally expect their students to come across an English test utilizes knowledge of grammar rules as proof of proficiency.
Imagine Harvard or a private high school only teaching the grammar rules and not the actual language of Hindi. It's ridiculous and wouldnt happen here, and it's only purpose is to fool people into thinking you can speak it.
And to have it rooted in your nation's fundamental education system from young ages to graduation? That's just pathetic. Nothing more, nothing less.

[@LickMyMusketBallsYankee]

​@@zahilakhan6496 Pakistan is India and just won't accept it. Being a tiny nub on the edge of the Indian subcontinent and you think you have actual claims to independence and legitimacy as a state power? Lmao. I'm American, not Indian, but even I know that Pakistan's validity is equal to a rock in my garden suddenly saying it's independent. Nay, a pebble.

[@Foodfry122]

I am an Indian and while we have a cheating problem somewhere, it's not Language proficiency. Most urban Indians can read, write and speak in English just fine. The issue is dialect and accent. Initially, when I had just began watching American TV shows , I didn't understood shit because they had an accent and they used slangs that I wasn't familiar with. TOEFl and the likes of it test standardize vocabulary and grammatical rules. Also a lot of these exams are predictable if you practice enough times. A real life conversation or lecture is a lot less predictable and can not be practiced at all

[@BlackSakura33]

It's because "American" is an entirely different language. It's not english.

[@sanibaba032003]

"Didn't understand " not understood

[@DRGBTL23]

Private education in america: “You give me you money and I’ll get you your diploma.”

[@HelselMark]

If your testing method is easy to cheat on, you should change your testing method. Usually the easiest tests to cheat on are the ones that are the easiest/laziest for the teacher to administer.

[@user-ef4lr7to5m]

A group of engineering professors was invited to fly an airplane. After they were seated comfortably, they were informed that the plane had been built by their students. All but one rushed to the exit in a panic. The remaining professor, quietly sitting in his seat, was asked, "Why did you stay?" “I have complete confidence in my students. Knowing them, I can assure you that this piece of shit won't even take off."

[@ManojKumar-cj7oj]

I'm dying 😅lol

[@executorprime]

Ahahaha

[@conraderino7619]

An oldie but a good one ;)

[@elizabethwambui9901]

😂😂😂😂

[@phanvanhoa]

True

[@elainelevel6001]

I am jamaican and all my life I was told how smart some groups were until I got in a class room with them at LIU. These people cheat like I have never seen before. It was rediculous.

[@appropriate-channelname3049]

Why do you think the west dominates the world? Its because we produce the best collaborators in the world. Who aren't ashamed to rely on the expertise of others.

[@elainelevel6001]

The west does not collaberate. The west assimilates.

[@326Alan]

What's "LIU"?

[@salemalnuaimi602]

Ridiculous*
What university did you go to again?

[@chrisflanagan7564]

​@@326Alan at a guess... Long Island University?

[@itzzz_drisha]

In India, cheating is such a huge problem like before exam, I hear everyone discussing cheating plan rather than last minute studying. I actually do not cheat in my exams. Once my exam partner (he is from 6th grade and I'm in 7th) was telling me answers from the girl who was sitting in front of me ( I didn't asked for it) and when I told him I don't cheat, He looked at me dumbfounded

[@antoniodelacruz2201]

After 10 years of studying English, nothing couldn't prepared me for how they speak in deep Scotland. That is a conversion I would love to see her follow.

[@kycheleboone3606]

But also a huge issue is that grammar is the priority as opposed to conversation or fluency. Its all about the test score as opposed to using the language as a tool.

[@thekrunkadidliacdude5033]

I find this is a big problem with education as a whole

[@SS-iu1zb]

I have a childhood friend in China, who went to Chinese university as English major. She later came to the US for her own master degree. She told me she was making money taking Toefl exams for many Chinese students back in China so they could qualify to apply for western universities. It was wide spread and an open secret. Nobody thought it was a problem, even herself.

[@paitrynpait9664]

Thats because in most of the asian countries the ends always justifiy the means. No matter if its Academics, Work, or even video games, if you can cheat your way to success that is just as good as earning it yourself.

[@kawaiilotus]

They need to have overseas invigilators ( directly from the uni if possible) who monitor these tests over zoom or another such thing!

[@janus3555]

@@paitrynpait9664 This is why we don't regard them as human. They are locusts, insects and should be treated as such.
Extermination if possible.

[@raymondvasquez6967]

@@kawaiilotus word of the day for me: invigilator!

[@edgregory1]

​@@paitrynpait9664 Including fake bsby formula.

[@rc8929]

As a Ph.D., MBA and duel bachelor degree graduate. I have never once observed “a cheating ring” or even individuals cheating in my classes. I was also a TA for years.

[@acadianalien]

Really? It is very common in STEM courses. In my Differential Equations course, a huge portion of the engineers copied off the same guy for homework :P.

[@samshM]

I am an Indian and I am currently studying in Germany with an IELTS score of 8.0. And although I agree that a lot of Indians who qualify proficiency tests are not equipped to carry out a proper conversation when they land in an English speaking country, but I can assure you that it's not because we qualify those proficiency exams by "cheating". No one cheats in proficiency tests. Indians study English in schools from childhood. We have specific "English medium" school whose medium of instruction is English in all subjects. So we have a good hold on the academic aspect of the language and most of the time we are grammatically and literally correct, even if we may lack the speaking vocabulary skills. And that's why when it comes to proficiency tests, we qualify it with decent grades. But communicative English will be very different from native English speakers because we don't speak English on a regular basis. So although her intentions are right, her example is ill-informed and mostly assumed.

[@scottanno8861]

She's mostly speaking about Chinese: those students try to get away with anything I've noticed

[@fbrhawk]

While teaching an online course to PhD students in business, I caught a man who was in the Saudi government plagiarizing a paper. When I confronted him he swore he did not do it. THE MAN HE HIRED TO WRITE THE PAPER WAS THE ONE GUILTY OF PLAGIARISM !

[@forefatherofmankind3305]

Haha 🤣 WTF ...
Man i got these middle eastern students in my class ,esp. Pakistanis and qataris ... They sit together during test and shout at each other, discussing questions🤣🤣🤣

[@lieslceleste3395]

Kuwaitis are just as bad. My Tunisian friend calls them “double zeros” for the headdress they wear.

[@usmansabir1407]

​@@forefatherofmankind3305 how ? Different regions (Pakistan is not in middle east ) different language too. Also, if they can't speak English how do they communicate ? And what kind of invigilator are you ?

[@town944folk]

​@@usmansabir1407-Probably use Arabic

[@mizmzappamizmzappa9548]

Wow they got a guy to write it. It’s a wonder they didn’t ask a woman so they could blame them with impunity .

[@michellezevenaar]

About 20 years ago, I gave English classes to foreign students in the Netherlands. Their problem was just pronunciation that made them had to understand. Their vocabulary was great, and they could easily hold a conversation. They just were hard to understand for the Dutch.

[@abhilashpatel6852]

yes.

[@vishezar2137]

I agree with you 100% I spoke in English with my friends but it was hard to follow any Hollywood movies. I had to always turn on the subtitles. Even today I have to turn on subtitles for some of the words that I can't understand because of the accent.
I can still find so many people who work in MNCs in India and speak English fluently but they will still have to turn on the subtitles to watch Hollywood movies.

[@michellezevenaar]

@vishezar2137 the Indian English is very difficult for everyone else to understand. There are lots of grammar mistakes or illogical sentence structures that make it harder to understand. Of course there are many people from India that speak very good English that's articulate. I've met many of both over the years in Europe.

[@vishezar2137]

@@michellezevenaar It is not the grammar that we didn't understand. Speaking is also not a problem for me. Frankly speaking, grammar was the least of the trouble. It was the American accent. I still don't understand Australian accent 🥲

[@michellezevenaar]

@vishezar2137 if it's not the grammar then what is it? Things are said in a very illogical way. Many other non native speakers have the same problem when they are still at a beginner level. They structure the sentence in the same way they would in their native language. It's very common when learning any new language.

[@pf9222]

This is so True. I literally know people who have had their English language exams taken by someone else and paid to get higher scores

[@jessh7448]

I'm canadian and I've known that for a while. We have students say they are fluent in french yet when they get to the french classes in their bilingual program. They don't understand any of it. The problem is those students are taking the spaces that should go to someone else. And most programs are unilingal, so there's no reason for them to take these instead.

[@sydneydwoskin4950]

I have been an English teacher and I have taken foreign language myself. I can tell you with all confidence that language proficiency tests are often not representative of how fluent someone is. I have had students with horrible grammar and bad pronunciation, but with more fluency and ability to carry a conversation, than those who score high in testing. Maybe she has other examples to support her claims, but language proficiency scores vs. someone's actually fluency is not a good one.

[@i4linoz11]

thank you for sharing, I completely agree

[@GraniteInTheFace]

I know students who passed C1 on German language test and they have trouble sitting through lectures too. Passing a language test doesn't mean you can sit comfortably and follow an intense lecture. The first year is going to be tough. The second year gets better.

[@derin111]

C1 ist schon ziemlich schwer.…Nein! Eigentlich sogar sehr schwer!
I’ve been speaking German since I was a baby although I grew up and lived all my life in the UK. A couple of years ago, at the age of 58, I sat the B1 as proof of German proficiency as part of gaining German citizenship (I never bothered before Brexit). I scored 97.5%. However, that was only B1….C1 is MUCH higher and I think even I would struggle. Even B1 requires about an hour’s worth of conversational German which is observed by two examiners. It is far from just a written exam! It also has a listening section….with people speaking with different accents including Austrian and Swiss!
So, you might ask “How then do these people you refer to manage to pass C1 when clearly their German is so poor?”
Well, I think I know how! When I sat my B1 in Hannover out of about 15 candidates, a third were eliminated immediately before the exam even started. They were people who could speak German PRETENDING to be someone else! They were picked up by careful scrutiny of their identity papers. One guy was even 15 cm shorter in reality than the Passport of the person he was pretending to be when the examiner made him stand up! She had to threaten him with getting the Police before he would leave!
And up it was clear that this happens all the time on a massive scale and these people can make lots of money by doing it! 😮

[@letsfindsomepeace9207]

I had damn near perfect English and even I struggled my first semester. It takes a moment to adjust.

[@michaelwoffindin]

She's incredibly beautiful.

[@mrfriendlolo4971]

This actually happens a lot, not just in the US, it’s just a fact that it’s usually a lot easier for people to read and write in a language than it is to properly speak it. I guarantee if you looked into it, you’d find the same issues happening in Japan with their international students from America

[@chinni032]

Ability to carry a conversation requires more than language proficiency. I completed my ILETS twice with 8.5 score both in academic and general tests. However, I still feel uncomfortable speaking to a foreigner or native speaker because a sense of feeling that I am bing judged in terms of accent. Let’s not forget that we are trained in English but not in American accent or British accent.

[@mediterraneanworld]

I taught 20 years on an American study abroad programs and if you think that US students don;t cheat as well you have another thing coming.

[@assaqwwq]

but the immigrants... are diluting our aryan roots... is what shes not saying with her lips...

[@brendonrookes1151]

thats irelevent most americans can speak basic english

[@user-xe4pi3br5e]

​​@@brendonrookes1151unny how ..mostly thats the only language americans can speak as a mode of communication and expect others to learn their language and judge them on what they considers to be a benchmark of proficiency

[@jimmoriarty4530]

​@@brendonrookes1151 All my friends and family talk to me in my mother tongue, I know English but i don't have the opportunity to speak it, So how Im I going to be proficient in it unless I live in a place where people speak English on a daily basis. I could learn native English only after I get the chance to live in contries like US

[@ap9212]

@@brendonrookes1151I think you misunderstood the point of video. It wasn’t about English. It was about cheating.

[@chrisr4023]

When you have a conversation with someone and you are the one using your mother-tongue. It is your responsibility to carry the conversation in such a way that the other person (who is not a native speaker) gets their point across.
Also, Reading, writing, speaking and listening are all completely different ball games. Holding a conversation may also be difficult based on personality.
But as an Indian myself, i admit that cheating is a huge issue in our academic scene right now.

[@tammymartin-osman4916]

I know this is true as I have worked with foreign nurses, from Nigeria for example, who although are beautiful people, I cannot understand a single word of English. Those in other nations probably think the same as we do when speaking their language.

[@krunal7433]

She does not understand a simple fact that passing an exam and having knowledge are two completely different things.

[@dlenbeats7459]

Exactly brother. That's why western women are dumb and yet they want to be equal as men, like equal payment but not equal level of hardwork. Dem women want to be equal but can't be equal to men, that's bullshit to me 💯

[@wildkeith]

Passing the exam demonstrates your knowledge.

[@sakshamsethi413]

​@@wildkeith no it does not

[@wildkeith]

@@sakshamsethi413 If you can’t answer a question, then you don’t know the answer. Simple as that. At my university many Asian kids have mental breakdowns because they cheated their way into a corner.

[@brandenhylton8272]

I think you mean experience.

[@loganpe427]

When fraud & cheating are so acceptable in school, students carry that behavior on into the way they act in the larger world and it's a cancer!

[@minhnguyen-cw7uf]

it is not acceptable, if the professor have proof, he will fail the student, might even kick em out of school

[@fredrika27]

What angers me about this whole cheating scam: Poor and minority students are told we are inferior by a bunch of liars and cheats. Yes, our grades may be lower, but at least we don't have a reputation of cheating to get them. The same with entrance essays. The clear giveaway that a parent or company wrote that exam is when it's perfect and has no mistakes. This isn't one essay! It's dang near 50% now!

[@mikebarnes5528]

They become Presiden, even after dropping out from plagiarizing his speeches years before. It appears a lot of the so called educated people have cheated to the top.
Pelosi cheats when she gives tip on stock buys for her Hubbie. Biden’s cheat when Vice Prez and used his educated crackhead son to make multimillion dollar deals.
College is a sham for the rich, and a money trap for the middle class.

[@RojaJaneman]

Please!! Most college student in America read at 8th grade level. Guess which banks took entire economy of d world down in 2008. Guess who bailed them out?? Guess who didn’t change any rules so it wouldn’t b repeated so d predatory practices continue?? Guess who is still occupying Hawaii?? Or Texas, California. Oh wait. Entire USA is occupied. Guess d corruption of congress, which is legalized like no other democracy in d world.
D kids she’s talking about r rich brats. Guess how many usa rich brats get into Ivy leagues?? Guess how many predatory evangelicals committing ethnocide in d third world countries even today. Guess who hides all d dark history to seem benevolent to d world so it can keep exploiting it.
The immigrants from India especially arrive on scholarships or they’re rich brats. Rich brats pay for d poor kids’ scholarships. R scholarships ones have invented things, have startups, pay d most per capita taxes, have lowest crime rates. They’re usually d doctors/nurses. On and on.
Racist prick

[@medicineshroom1386]

Sounds like an immigration problem. They shouldn't be here if they can't speak the language. That's not racist. It makes sense. Why go to a country where you will struggle to communicate the most basic things? You're being guided by, probably by our own government. They have been driven all over this country. From the coasts to the heart of America. Where they can't speak a lick of English. So they will resort to crime and cheating

[@ComedianNemaKatt]

College taught me one thing: Cheaters always Prosper! lol

[@KittyCat1993-m6t]

This is so true! I am Latina and I have a Master's in Computer Science in my classes Chinese Students and Indian students cheated all the time! Even on homework They would ask me for answers without even knowing me

[@ashutoshdayal1102]

Writing and speaking are two different things. Any student can learn the rules of a language and pass the test. But conversing is completely different thing as many of these students never get a chance to speak what they have been writing in the tests until they actually come across native speakers like yourself.

[@David-yw4qd]

Writing and speaking are two very different things as a non English person i have zero difficulty in communicating with another person in English by text but when talking is involved my grammar jumps right out the window 😂

[@Saey065]

Precisely. Girl should check her data and referrences.

[@assaqwwq]

@@Saey065 shes racist, blaming indians for the corruption in her own schools... theres no data.

[@Saey065]

@@assaqwwq lmao. Had she checked the gpa of those people she deemed problematic to some professors due to comprehension?

[@assaqwwq]

@@Saey065 when she ends up seeing an indian doctor with perfect American accent her poor heart is gonna give out.

[@schnioula]

Exactly! What‘s her point?

[@darwinmendoza7061]

Several years ago, I met a girl from Taiwan who said she has a master's degree in English in Taiwan but when I talked to her, she could barely speak English. With regards to some private colleges in the US, they will take any student from any country who will pay 100% of their tuition in advance regardless of whether they learn anything or not. At the same time, I have a friend who teaches English at a private college in Southern California who told me the college doesn't have a curriculum for professors to follow and they can teach any gibber in class like talk about movies or celebrities and no one will care as long as the students shows up in class. It's all about the money and nothing else.

[@rodgerhempfing2921]

Failing them is frowned upon, greatly.

[@dv6165]

This lady doesn't understand the simple fact that learning the grammar and vocabulary of a language doesn't mean you're good at having a conversation in it. I can't imagine she has ever tried to learn a different language herself. That makes her judgment that much more abhorrent.

[@recuerdos2457]

The test she mentioned tests listening skills, you won’t be able to get high score if you only understand reading and grammar

[@wren4077]

Nope. I'm from India and she is pretty spot on. People buy their degrees here. People cheat their way through college. I have a mech engineering degree from vellore, one of India's best private institutions. And I've seen people cheat their way through.
One summer semester a teacher basically adked me for a bribe too. I didn't even want it but it was almost a necessity. She made it seem like it. I wouldn't say that phenomenon is common. But students cheating is incredibly common.
You can buy your final semester capstone projects next to college campuses.
Stop moral policing without having actual experience.

[@wren4077]

@@recuerdos2457 yea they pretend like you can get good toefl ielts scores just by rote learning. Ive given the toefl exam twice. Got a 106 both times.
There's certain principles you can adopt to make it easier for you to answer questions. Develop structures to understand and answer in a very critical manner. But you can't learn grammar and vocabulary over a matter of weeks.

[@vikramtalreja9]

She's talking about the bigger problem here. You are just concentrating on her example. She is talking about academic dishonesty among professors, teachers while they were doing PhD or publishing there papers. Especially in india professors believes in quantity rather quality of their research.
Plagiarism is on the rise especially during PhD publishing or research papers. It's hell of a problem here

[@brekkoh]

Just from her dictation you can tell she loves the feeling of talking down to someone regardless of how much expertise she has in a topic

[@TeamBradfordSIESO]

A few things:
The tests these students pass will not prepare you for holding actual practical conversations, instead it is taught from a more academic point of view (grammar, vocabulary memorisation, etc) so they technically get an A on a language exam but are unable to apply it easily.
Also, this video (perhaps unintentionally) makes it seem like cheating is a phenomenon that is growing because of the influx of foreign students. Not sure if this is the case, I have observed cheating from pretty much any demographic in my courses.

[@yuurishibuya4797]

As a former teaching assistant I can attest to this plagiarism. Constantly catching ppl while grading assignments, It used to have same mistakes in grammar and spelling, same wrong answers, the list goes on.

[@rebecca4522]

It's like graduates whose grades/transcripts are supposed to indicate a certain level of understanding... Then you end up babysitting them the basics at work to earn the same wage that took you years learning through working, to achieve.

[@scottanno8861]

All because the company wanted to pay you less money!

[@populuseuphratica8791]

I don't think it's completely due to cheating. By the time I was 12, I could understand written English and write in perfect grammar. However, being an Indian, I couldn't really understand English movies without subtitles due to their different accents. Even while speaking, my speed would be slow as I had to translate everything in my mind first.

[@gzrh1]

Athletic scholarship enters chat room

[@noOnionswithoutTears]

I went to Big Ten school 30 years ago. The cheating rings were out in the open, totally normal.

[@navinadv]

Maybe she never heard of “consultants” like Rick Singer.
Granted there is a lot of cheating on India but US colleges are equally complicit. They fly their representatives to China and India seeking students especially those who can pay their way without scholarships. They visit elite schools, meet with the counsellors, and work with them to achieve these goals. The rest I will leave to your imagination. The whole system is being gamed.

[@keenfire8151]

@@ayde92829 legacy students are typically smart enough to at least be there.

[@ranaosman1393]

​@@keenfire8151 your source?

[@keenfire8151]

@@ranaosman1393 My source? lol Being a human is my source. Going to college is another. Going to grad school is another source. Being in the military is another source..
Just being alive and experiencing life is my source. I don't need a 'professional' to tell me what I see with my own eyes lol. Unlike you, I've experienced life enough to know what I'm talking about...at least on this topic.

[@Calcit3]

I see a lot of comments about accents being an issue rather than the language. Well accents can play a role but that’s not what this woman is speaking to. Even with accents one should be able to carry a conversation or at least follow instructions. She’s saying they can’t do that due to cheating. In Canada with some colleges this has become an issue and it’s due to not route learning and passing the exam rather cheating in the actual tests. Some of these students don’t even carry a simple sentence or even explain something in broken English.
Simply put they never did much in English yet their test result indicates proficiency. They’re simply wasting their time & losing money as with out much needed help, they won’t get their degrees.

[@kakalichakraborty7990]

The matter of fact over here is that she is making serious accusations without understanding the nuances of the differences of teaching culture in different countries. This makes her assumption land into the catagory of hasty generalization. Which obviously can lead her to accept an abhorrent conclusion.

[@whclcdr]

Very very true I’ve seen this particularly with the Chinese students. They will score exceedingly high on the English test but once they are here; their language skills are borderline.

[@anthonysmith4072]

This has to do with the way they teach English in China. They teach to pass tests not speak. Also there is zero pronunciation lesson. They aren’t cheaters. They are not confident.

[@whclcdr]

@@anthonysmith4072 also, Chinese schools are more memorization places. They are analytical and analysis.

[@Elurin]

That's why a lot of the more intelligent and well-off Chinese students will go to schools like the one I used to teach at, EF English First, where we made sure students were able to comprehend and speak according to their level (CEFR) It's not cheap, but they learn their English!

[@stevez6460]

I was about to say something similar, but yeah I would say most of them actually pass the proficiency test but they are too uncomfortable with speaking English infront of a fluent speaker. Also the speed at which you talk can intimidate them. Some definitely got in through paying corrupt officials though. But majority are legit.

[@sleepyearth]

@@anthonysmith4072 They are only good with rote learning.

[@maximkmrr3879]

That’s 100% true. Some of my classmates in St Andrews University MSc level could not even introduce themselves in English. And when we received assignments as a group they did not contribute at all, but got the same marks as the rest of the group.

[@DanyTV79]

Unbelievable! I'm from Ecuador and it's like my own experience in university down here.

[@thomasanderson1969]

Because humans are special lol

[@andrewbarry6702]

privilege

[@prashantkumar4t]

I do not know of your case but putting them all under cheating is wrong, as you can see I am writing not that good but still fine, but I also struggle with vocal conversation, it's different in writing then speaking, problem is not cheating, problem is education system that rewards only skills on paper not practical.

[@RojaJaneman]

From india? India has d highest number of English speakers. Even a beggar on d street knows enough English to introduce themselves and ask for necessities. Rwciwt

[@RonaldReaganRocks1]

The best, and only real way to learn a language is being surrounded by people who speak it, and being unafraid to make mistakes.

[@missmakata6058]

I just came here to say that studying for the test of English as a foreign language just to get a specific grade is totally different from learning the language and this is definitely not cheating in its lay terms neither is it fraud and most importantly not academic dishonesty or organised cheating ring. To study/cramp to pass a subject is different from studying for knowledge retention.

[@PhilippeRmiche]

Right or wrong, always put your guard up when someone says, "it is simply a fact...". 90% of the time it's actually opinion.

[@nityanewaliya]

It is the responsibility of the Invigilator to make sure there is no cheating, the sole purpose of existence of the Invigilator is for this job.

[@iaber1698]

Remember: education is a business. To schools, they are not students, they are paying customers and that is all this matters. It is a "capitalist" problem not incompetence one.

[@ccinSFfruitloop]

Absolutely. This is one thing communism got right!

[@iaber1698]

@@ccinSFfruitloop well, I preffer to chose which school to go to. All i am saying this is a problem the school created and allowed for the sake of benefits over ethics.

[@appropriate-channelname3049]

Lol couldn't get my kids into the good university because the secret police saw I didn't report the can of soup I found.

[@niennordeild4389]

Yeas in this case lack of true competition is the issue. Universities and district schools don't actually have to perform to get their money.

[@iaber1698]

@@niennordeild4389 You are right. And the university will 'certify" knowledge students don't have so it is an ethics issue.

[@guylewis7418]

When I taught in a public school, a parent dismissed there child’s cheating as unimportant.

[@tablab165]

This 13-year English teacher of Chinese students agrees. Can't speak for Indian, but I saw this all the time in Chinese students when I was at university. It brings down the level of academic rigor in the class when teachers know that 1/4 of their students need sentences to be very clear and slow.

[@hello-u2w]

I taught at two colleges in Canada. Most of my students were from India. This is 100% true! And when you catch them cheating, they cry and wail and make excuses... They know what they are doing. The funny part is that employers complain about the quality of students that they hire. The college system is all about buts in seats. I realized I was a customer service representative than an educator.

[@marsultortheavenger409]

I feel sorry for you Canadians, letting in so many Indians and Chinese into your country, such a bad move. It took me few days of working with them to figure out what kind of people they are and you let in millions of them in, oof.

[@nityanewaliya]

there is a difference between spoken and comprehension in which Indian/Asians a far better than Americans. Let's Maths, Physics, Chemistry, English, International Relations, Environment Studies, Engineering, Management, Technology, Bio-Tech, Medical, Pharma, Avaition, etc... There are more Asians than anyone else running NASA 😅😅 English is just a shitty colonial language not a measure of IQ or Knowledge. I know black and white people who can speak broken Asian languages and can't read/write it and vice-versa. Karen alert!!

[@hello-u2w]

@@nityanewaliya the explain the abhorrent pile of 2nd and 3rd academic offenses that would pile up in our deans office from international students that would out right copy/steal code from other students (we have software that can detect plagiarism in coding assignments) employers would complain to the colleges that the students graduated would not have the basic comprehension or work ethic to be successful at entry level positions. The problem is that the college system in Ontario looks at the students as butts in seats.. They don't care how many times the cheat. It's all about the money at the end of the day.

[@kushman3184]

Seneca, Sheridan, Durham, George Brown, Fanshawe., etc. I sat down with the President of Durham College years back and he basically told me as much. Everything including the new student centre was funded by kids from India. Most of them are just kids with rich parents who had poor to average grades in India. The program has just become another way to exploit the immigration system. There are many very qualified people waiting in line with already excellent credentials who are looked past to prop up Canadas lousy post secondary schools. Mostly the colleges I’m familiar with but perhaps the universities also.

[@riteshgupta4002]

@@hello-u2w in Canada most students if its not the top uni with best job opportunities, then they are there just for immigration. these people got wealthy as assets prices skyrocketed but dont have skills to either get good jobs in india or get into good colleges. it is simply a business transaction, they are paying money for visa, green card and work permits post degree from that country.

[@zaftighippo5544]

Group of middle eastern students, I had them multiple times but the most aggregious time I noticed, Over half didnt show up to the test, then in the next class they all were there with multiple copies of the tests question sheets. Had seen them taking photos, would always sit next to eachother and not abide by thenseat spacing roules. Its frustrating when youre working hard to do well.

[@stevedeweil5205]

When in a physics class in college there were 6 Iranian students. During a test they talked to each other out loud in farsi. When the prof handed out the test results she told the six Iranian students they all failed for cheating because she knew they had been talking to each other during the test and they all had the same wrong answers to questions. She kicked them out of the class to a loud applause from the rest of us. Couldn't happen today, but it did happen in 1970.

[@minhnguyen-cw7uf]

No worries, just do
Ur best, those who cheat will fail when they get into the workforce anyway

[@RojaJaneman]

Indian, especially Hindus don’t do any of that. Diametrically different cultures. Statistically, highest tax paying group in d USA. Highly educated. Lowest crimes. Look at hard data. Not racist rants

[@minhnguyen-cw7uf]

@@RojaJaneman can I have some statistic on d Indian pay most tax, cause I remember in the tax form, it does not ask for Ur ethnicity

[@debgreen2140]

You will know what they should and it will show. Make sure your labor benefits you instead of some corporation. I wish someone had told me that when they were trying to convince me to have a career instead of a family. Work in the industry just long enough to start a business and start your family while you are at it. We need more of you in this world.

[@Jrookus]

I can say this much, people who learn English are VERY good at writing it. I’m friends with an exchange student, he’s amazing at writing, beautiful cursive handwriting, great essays, whole nine yards. In person speaking? He has a thick accent and sometimes uses the wrong verb tense. But, he’s been here for over half a year now and his English skills have drastically improved.
It just takes time to really learn how to speak a language, and he’s someone who already knows how to do this, he speaks 2 other non-native languages. I myself can relate too, it’s easy for me to write an essay in Spanish or take a test in Spanish, but speaking the language is so much more difficult. It’s not a cheating problem with exchange students, it’s a simple lack of having spoken the language.

[@ashkaunadib7638]

As an American, if i could have gotten away with cheating on big tests in college I would have done it. Big exams are basically useless at helping students retain information. I don’t respect that way of grading.

[@moeball740]

Was part of a study group for a class in college. Of course we dug up copies of exams from previous years (multiple choice and easy to find). You study the exams, get an idea for what types of questions the professor likes to ask (patterns emerge, you pretty quickly figure out which are the main points they want you to focus on), so that when you take the current term's exam, you'll see similarly themed questions and have an idea how to proceed.
Walked into a 3 hour final exam, prof passed out the exams and said begin. Opened up the exam and was stunned to find the same exact questions as from previous years! Not similar questions with slight differences, which was what I was expecting, but the same exact questions! The prof hadn't even bothered to come up with new questions. Suddenly I'm flying through the multiple choice exam, going "this answer is A, this one is D, this one is C, etc." I couldn't believe I finished a 3 hour exam in a little over half an hour! Easiest A I ever got in a class.

[@n.miller907]

So your diploma isn't worth the paper it was written on?

[@moeball740]

@@n.miller907 Not what I'm saying at all. This was one lazy prof in one class. He's the exception, not the rule. But your comment instantly shows you don't value an education. I do. College isn't for everyone; that's fine. But it's not useless.

[@n.miller907]

@@moeball740 Nothing wrong with having an education. But it's only one component for success. Knowledge is mutually exclusive from (creative) intelligence though. Lots of educated people do moronic things. You aced this one test because you already had the answers ahead of time. Doesn't seem terribly ethical.
Having a solid memory gets most people a lot way in life. It's often something you're born with. Most lawyers and a lot of doctors have amazing mental recall but that doesn't make them a good doctor or lawyer. There's a lot of deductive reasoning and a need for people skills when you're a doctor. I've met plenty of them that can memorize what they've learned but they aren't good listeners or don't have an efficient methodology to treat my medical problems.
I'm currently reading a book about the most important scientific discoveries. Most people don't realize how intelligent some people were going back to the 1500's or even much further back.
Education today is often seen as a game and some people like to cheat their way to the top. They don't pursue education for the sake of self-edification. It's simply a means to obtain wealth and status. Most politicians are lawyers and we all know how honest and smart those people are. (That's sarcasm BTW.)

[@minhnguyen-cw7uf]

@@n.miller907 lmao, the kid still put in effort to study, that is good enough, and he will
learn more when he go out to the world. His research skill and attention to details will take his career far

[@yondermountainjamfan9410]

In most settings that is clearly defined as cheating on the test.

[@stevenrichards1539]

This also occurs in corporate america. HR depts know it but won't say it on the record either.

[@reedheeramgoolam3145]

As an International student, my TOEIC score was higher than the UK born student and even higher than my English professor 🙏 it is like judging a snake and an elephant on who is more capable of climbing the same tree faster. Each their own capabilities which is why admission criteria should not be same for all. some marge of error must be allowed so everyone evolve at their own pace

[@piyusarkar3065]

As someone who has worked for a few months in a state govt school in India (Assam), where English is just one language subject and everyone is using the local language of the state, students are good in vocabulary and grammar, but they rot learn everything without understanding. So when it comes to speaking, they can't. They can't even write answers in English by understanding the question in most cases. They memorize a lot of possible questions instead.

[@artgo9112]

Schools know that very well, but international students pay twice more than home students, and nothing can substitute that nice smell of cash.

[@nityanewaliya]

It is the responsibility of the Invigilator to make sure there is no cheating, the sole purpose of existence of the Invigilator is for this job.

[@jimjam2024]

I've met so many Doctors like this and they get mad when I can't Understand them.

[@Sim902]

And work colleagues, give a simple task only to be done completely wrong

[@brianx04]

When you prioritize grades over knowledge.

[@PukingPanda]

My university got exposed a couple years ago accepting international students that did not meet the English proficiency requirements.
Also an international student in their final year of my degree got exposed for cheating multiple times in their competency exams that they are required to complete to graduate.
He has to resit the whole year.

[@daphneraven6745]

Perhaps it’s time for the colleges to introduce a policy of interviewing students before they actually are officially permitted to start classes. It would become pretty obvious within a few moments, that the students could not actually carry on a conversation.
It would be an excellent idea after that, to have a policy of reporting those students to certain academic bodies, Because even if they were to apply to other schools, that student already has a strong history of cheating. That’s not something that looks good on any college or university.

[@josephdestaubin7426]

You seem to have overlooked the point. The administrators are interested in making money for the institution, they're not interested in educating students. A system that got rid of or eliminated those high-dollar students would be counter to their goals. Therefore no such system would be acceptable to the administrators.

[@daphneraven6745]

@@josephdestaubin7426 : Foreign students pay much higher tuition than domestic students. So as long as they can manage the language requirement, they usually do very well and make the university look good as well.
But if they arrive at the University, and can’t keep up because of language skills problems, the university does look pretty bad. It would really in truly be better for them to get a Semester of ESL before starting regular academic program, even at that same university.

[@josephdestaubin7426]

@@daphneraven6745 Obviously they pay much higher tuition rates, that was kind of my point of why the university won't actually solve the problem.

[@daphneraven6745]

@@josephdestaubin7426 : No matter how much or how little you charge, if students end up flaking out left right and center, or barely scraping a pass because they can’t actually speak the language, it’s going to ruin the university, when it happens In sufficiently high numbers.

[@josephdestaubin7426]

@@daphneraven6745 in theory this is true. And why all the universities have recently had record low admissions, they're still stained float by transferring professors to itinerant positions and because our society (in the technical use of that for a word) is well bound up in the University system. Note; in the discipline of Economics Society refers to a group of individuals that are labor specialized.

[@NoneofyourbeeswaxInc]

As a Chinese major they all wanted to be my friend to help them get tests and quizzes. They let me in on their operation. It's ridiculous what higher education has become.

[@sqd8r]

Chinese major. There is no Chinese major.

[@neil_mch]

Not ridiculous when you consider how much they charge foreign students and how their 'pass rate' helps gain more cash cows.

[@tomjones4318]

Is cheating regarded differently in china? Or is cheating in the US regarded differently by chinese?

[@madelainepetrin1430]

It shows what utility those degrees are! The universities don't care. They take the money and think that these students will go back home but they don't...

[@jauntyone]

​@@tomjones4318 It's also a cultural thing. "Immitation is the highest form of flattery" seems to be a common motto in China...You just have to take a look at many "Chinese" products... many are rip offs from other well established companies from, say, Europe. They seem to even take pride in plagiarizing and have no shame in presenting "their" innovative new products at the same trade shows ...seen interesting videos on this. Also, the school system emphasizes in learning things by heart instead of really understanding concepts ...more like memorizing drills...and also lack of critical thinking. Another example in art class they learn how to perfectly copy paintings. I guess that culminates to cheating not being a big deal for them as long as they get their University degree and the family at home can show it off and their pepuration and prestige rise.

[@treywaz]

Imagine thinking it's not all about money

[@MissNancyLondon]

I’ve met British people in Australia that have failed the English test (to get extra points for their visa) because they have poor grammar, despite being a native speaker. Not everyone is cheating. I passed high school maths but couldn’t tell you the first thing about quadratic equations… we study, we pass, we move on.

[@evergreen_calm]

I'm a teacher in China. They are not taught to learn the language, they are taught to pass specific exams. And I used to teach kindergarten so all I could do was leave the kids with a desire to actually learn a language, not just pass a test.

[@marsavriletmaimam5981]

In France if you cheat during an exam, you have to wait 5 years to try again. Fear works because few people cheat.

[@arrowslinger2460]

We have strict punishments for cheating - generally permanent expulsion. The English proficiency tests she is referring too are taken in China with loose proctoring and identity confirmation

[@AnkhArcRod]

In US, Indians fear loss of VISA and hence don't cheat. This woman is just xenophobic.

[@adrianpillai6645]

But cheating on your partner, *lights cigarette* mais oui, c'est la vie.
:)

[@nydydn]

I doubt it works. It probably worked on you, and that's great. Good for you! That's why you probably believe it works on everyone. No, it doesn't. Based on this 5 years rule, I would expect France to have some of the best cheaters. Due to the nature of cheating, we'll never be able to confirm this. Nevertheless this is not what the woman in the post is addressing. France may or may not have the best cheaters, but France, as a society, including those who cheat, decided that this is a very serious matter and that in principle it shouldn't be done. Because of this decision, the bar is also raised when it comes to education quality etc. In some eastern countries, cheating in an exam is not seen as being something bad, but as a difficult, but achievable solution to a problem. If you pass the exam, cheating or not, it's an equal success. And there's some truth there as well, because the quality of the education is sometimes so poor that cheating or learning are simply uncorrelated with future success, because whatever was supposed to be learned was not necessary, outdated, etc. In other words useless for the future. Everyone in these societies understands this, including the teachers, who are sometimes more permissive with cheating because of it. Generally speaking though, students who come from these backgrounds usually don't cheat abroad, because the poor quality of education tends to be exactly the reason these students left their country. That unless we're talking about spoiled brats, in which case they'll cheat anywhere under the protection of daddy's money.

[@kenji214245]

In sweden you get banned for a few years but also get polis called on you and very likely you will have to pay a hefty fine. Becuase cheating is breaking a law here

[@koteswar009]

This is true even in Australia. My PhD professor experienced this and I have too. The students send their assignments to India where there specific groups whose job is to only write assignments for students abroad and get paid very less in terms of AUD but maybe good in Rs.

[@bobby_greene]

My first language is English but I learned Spanish in high school and college. I can test fairly well in Spanish, but can't have an actual conversation with a native speaker.

[@PCRenegade]

Same. I can read Spanish, French and do fairly well in Italian because of my knowledge of Spanish and French, but I can barely stumble through a very simple conversation .

[@wilhelmdietrich8474]

​@@PCRenegadeOne of my "super powers" is being able to read a whole bunch of languages to a good degree and not speaking a one of them.

[@charlottejameson8924]

I learnt French to A level at an Australian school where being able to communicate orally is important. In the UK, I have met people who can read and write it more correctly than me but who cannot hold a basic conversation in French and whose accent is excruciating.

[@user-hy2qo6lj2q]

I got stuck on a group task with a chinese international student at an Australian University. They could not speak a single word of English. They just smiled awkwardly at me whenever I tried to speak to them. I am not sure how they even managed to show up to the right classes. I submitted the task by myself with zero input from them but I am pretty sure the professors credited her work and passed her because international students pay higher fees.

[@josho225]

bingo!

[@minhnguyen-cw7uf]

Ask the professor, see what happen?

[@AussieRoos]

ua-cam.com/video/wQlad0nN3x8/v-deo.html

[@AussieRoos]

👆Four Corners did an episode on it a few years back, you know it’s an issue when even the Woke ABC are calling it out

[@ME-gz8yi]

Fun fact: at my school [top US science/medical school] there was a ring who posed as students [using their IDs!!!] hired to take final exams for the students.

[@danms8705]

It is simply a fact, that what is evaluated in some/ many tests cannot be used as proof of conversation proficiency. Languages are so rich/ broad and the tests can only be used as a rough reference. Usually one is being trained to pass tests not necessarily to communicate.

[@enynaaa]

As person who is foreigner and doesn’t speak English as first language: it’s totally different write and speak. Because when you speak it’s not just the knowledge of language. It’s also communication and social skills. Speaking different language is vulnerable moment and fear of judgment is high. Confidence to speak isn’t the same as knowledge of language.

[@RascaldeesV2]

That's not what she's talking about. Schools in the U.S. by design of the rules that govern them (and how much money they get) is based on test scores, so a lot of college people won't report cheating.

[@ShreyasBharadwaj]

What the lady fails to mention is that most of these students come here for Science, Engineering and Math which they are really good at.
Judging one's abilities based on their proficiency in English has been an age old discriminatory practice. It was practiced by the British in their colony and against their own Welch neighbors , and by the White people against native and black citizens in America.
What this lady also conveniently disregards is most of these students are polyglots who take up the language based on the place they wish to immigrate to much later in their lives.
Veiling racism as the dishonesty of the immigrant or outsider is an age old practice used with political intent, Please do not give a microphone to a bigot.

[@nityanewaliya]

It is the responsibility of the Invigilator to make sure there is no cheating, the sole purpose of existence of the Invigilator is for this job.

[@ShreyasBharadwaj]

@@nityanewaliya No, Don’t blame your compromised morals on an invigilator. Your job is to write an exam, not out smart an invigilator.

[@donaldcampbell3043]

Was in a class of international students as one of two domestic students doing a postgraduate business degree, in a class of 100 students mostly Indian and various SE Asian students at least 2 students a week were caught plagiarizing and a lot did have poor English language skills after having done compulsory proficiency classes

[@RojaJaneman]

Universities r corrupted. Even USA kids can barely write. Most r at 8th grade level. Don’t know any history or geography.
That’s y in every academic competition they dominate.

[@MOMOD854]

So did a grad student classmate of mine born and raised in ohio

[@RojaJaneman]

@@MOMOD854 according to latest stats 21% of USA is illiterate. 53% is at 6th grade level.
These types of people will worry about online scammers stealing chump change but do nothing about pharma/meat/dairy industry poisoning them or banks/congress/MIC bankrupting them or worse indenting them in trillions. Plus, d inflation.
Real life example of that 21% illiterate bunch. I remember working with soldiers and they’d know nothing about money/finances. They’d make seriously dumb decisions. Like buying a car before deployment and paying it off with that extra dough. 🙄 🤨. How about keep that cash until u come back and buy cash, instead of having a car that’s been sitting there rotting/depreciating for a year. Plus they’re paying insurance and storage fees. 🤦‍♂️. And there were several of them doing this.

[@revanth3508]

Perhaps these universities should test their English language skills directly before allowing entry to curb this rather than letting anyone in that has money

[@donaldcampbell3043]

Unfortunately these foreign students pay big money to study so they often get a pass...

[@natlyfranks6856]

For anyone to learn another language, I find that person pretty amazing!! Imagine going to another country & having to communicate everyday language. These kids are AMAZING

[@rezamotori5709]

its 100% true what she is saying. its not just about SPEAKING but also UNDERSTANDING the language! How can a student understand what a teacher is saying if he can't follow what the teacher is saying!

[@johnmoffat3208]

As a college biology professor .. I can, unfortunately, back this up; I call out my students when I find it. They do not believe me when I tell them I can tell and since being online due to the pandemic... this problem has significantly increased. I warn them but they think they will not be discovered... they are.

[@nityanewaliya]

there is a difference between spoken and comprehension in which Indian/Asians a far better than Americans. Let's Maths, Physics, Chemistry, English, International Relations, Environment Studies, Engineering, Management, Technology, Bio-Tech, Medical, Pharma, Avaition, etc... There are more Asians than anyone else running NASA 😅😅 English is just a shitty colonial language not a measure of IQ or Knowledge. I know black and white people who can speak broken Asian languages and can't read/write it and vice-versa. Karen alert!!

[@johnmoffat3208]

@@nityanewaliya But that is not related what I was commenting on. All I said is there are is a cheating culture I can see in biology. Heck most of my doctors are Asian .. and they are darn good.

[@WimiBussard]

Random question, but what's the best method to study for a biology test? Assuming, that I don't get handed out a catalogue of questions.

[@itsgonnabeanaurfromme]

​@@johnmoffat3208 not really the point of the video but that's your responsibility, then. Why do these kids have to cheat unless their professor is so incompetent and inept that they can't learn. I have an MD and PhD and college biology isn't hard. Shouldn't you make an effort to teach and stop their cheating?

[@johnmoffat3208]

@@itsgonnabeanaurfromme I beg to differ; the point of the short was about the culture of cheating and is stated in the first, what, 10 seconds of the short? Why do student cheats? Well, sometimes they think it is a short cut as opposed to spending the needed time/effort to understand and remember the material. Biology is easy for some and challenging for others. While in undergraduate and graduate school not all of my classmates would do well on exams or with lab write-ups, and we had good professors at my university. Being a good professor does not guarantee all of your students pass. If that were true for a college level biology course at 200 and higher levels then perhaps the professors are not challenging the students. Being a good professor is about helping students to reach their maximum abilities in the subject and coaching them on how to problem solve and explore ideas; but not all students have the same level/degree of abilities. I mean this with all due respect, but you would know that if you ever taught a college level biology course at a 200 or higher level. I am sure some of your classmates “struggled” at times with material? I can easily show them the steps in the formation of an intracellular signaling pathway leading to protein kinase A … but that does not mean everyone will remember the steps or understand what has to happen to cause the next step in the pathway to take place. “You can bring a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink.”

[@mmichelle184]

She speaks the truth!!!!!! In my accounting class half the class cheated. They partnered and cheated on quizes and the midterm. We, in the other half of the class group confronted the professor about it and he made sure that he separated every student in the class for the final and we would have nothing but a pencil and calculator. The cheating group freaked out.
These students don't care. One of the scariest things I heard in college was one class mate state, "I prefer spending 8 hours looking for the key answers to the test onine then study the subject." This student is in finance and he didn't want to learn about it. That is scary because he works in banks and I am sure he knows nothing about finance.

[@RojaJaneman]

Please!! Most college student in America read at 8th grade level. Guess which banks took entire economy of d world down in 2008. Guess who bailed them out?? Guess who didn’t change any rules so it wouldn’t b repeated so d predatory practices continue?? Guess who is still occupying Hawaii?? Or Texas, California. Oh wait. Entire USA is occupied. Guess d corruption of congress, which is legalized like no other democracy in d world.
D kids she’s talking about r rich brats. Guess how many usa rich brats get into Ivy leagues?? Guess how many predatory evangelicals committing ethnocide in d third world countries even today. Guess who hides all d dark history to seem benevolent to d world so it can keep exploiting it.
The immigrants from India especially arrive on scholarships or they’re rich brats. Rich brats pay for d poor kids’ scholarships. R scholarships ones have invented things, have startups, pay d most per capita taxes, have lowest crime rates. They’re usually d doctors/nurses. On and on.

[@mrchips.9245]

But why are you so butt hurt about it ? Cheaters are usually more smarter then others.

[@manniefresh3425]

You think this is scary, this happens at nearly every level of medicine

[@TheFisterin]

Finance has become the biggest scam art there is, so he was preparing for the real world experience 😉

[@LD-tn6ff]

The comment stating "cheaters are smarter" seems like a joke at first, but isn't necessarily false. The MAJORITY of students learn material in college for tests in the "short term"; information that will never be retained virtually 1 semester after the class is over. Education in this country is very problematic in that we test mostly short term memory retention, and exclude competency for critical thinking or leadership development. I don't think most people even understand what REAL critical thinking actually is. Anyone who realizes this is either going to cheat the system by acknowledging that cramming is most rewarded in this system, despite being terrible for long term, applicable retention. Others who realize this will just disengage with process all together, even if that results in them being a B-C student.
I also don't agree that a cheater can't go on to become an excellent, knowledgable employee later in life either. First, there is no bank you will ever work at that doesnt have hundreds of pages on policy, regulation and procedures that apply towards the specific role in question, meaning "cheating" isn't really a concept that applies to real life work. Even academic settings are beginning to realize that open book style testing is the way of the future. Second, someone who didn't fare well in school as a result of disengaging may be more motivated than any of their piers to learn a skill set, develop knowledge, or learn when they know there is real world, applicable situations on the line. People learn differently from one another, and some people hate trying to learn something that doesn't apply to any problem or situation in life. After all, most skills and knowledge needed for a job in banking for example are learned at the bank. (most careers are like that unless you opt to work in an incredibly specialized/particular field)

[@Helloname883]

Pratice makes perfect. I took Speaking, reading, and grammar English classes before coming in the US and I passed the test. Can I tell you I couldn’t hold a conversation 😂 when I arrived? People were not talk with the same space I learn, my professors back home were speaking slowly, some people in the US didn’t know that I just arrived in the country and were speaking too fast for me, but you know I learned!! I always tell people with languages YOU LEARN ON THE BATTLEFIELD, thank you very much

[@torilovebyrd8418]

I went to school with a girl of Asian decent who told me that for state boards for whatever major they would take, a group of them would pay for one of them to take the test and fail just to get the answers for the questions they got wrong and they would do this as many times as they could before they had to go back for extra education; because the boards would allow them to review their wrong answers since every time they came back it would be a different version of the test. I remember thinking to myself she’s going to kill someone. A year after we graduated I found out she changed a doctors orders for one of her patients and killed him. She cheated her way through school, but she couldn’t cheat her way through her job.

[@temporarybackup5077]

💯👍👍👍👍🙏 talked with few different people, turns out this isn't isolated case whatsoever. We're all on house of cards and don't even know it and it's just continues this way for decades on end.
The over representation, especially in certain industries..in economies...in distribution of resources... Totally...Not an accident... Do you understand what is in stake for them, what they will do to maintain existing order..???

[@torilovebyrd8418]

@@temporarybackup5077 I know. There is a hospital in Chicago that has an administrator in HR without a single degree, because her cousin works there. Almost the entire nurses staff, therapists, cleaning, cafeteria… You name it, is of the same race. They’ve been walking out management and hiring for the position same day.

[@tibbar1000]

Well…I got my ass kicked in plant physiology by 8 Indian grad students who didn’t cheat. I got my ass kicked in organic chemistry by white pre med students who did. She may be correct but the picture includes a lot of demographics.

[@johnokamoto6762]

Indian parents as a general rule value education and academic excellence. They were an English colony, so that helps. A good parent doesn't want their child to fail so they push their kids to prepare for college abroad. Japanese students learn English in school, but reading and writing is different from speaking and understanding the spoken word. They are at a disadvantage when studying abroad when it comes to lectures. I knew a fellow student from Japan who had to record every lecture and translate them after class. He worked twice as hard as the rest of us but still got top grades. Cheating is extremely disgraceful and shameful in Japan. I think Cheating is rampant in the US

[@tibbar1000]

@@johnokamoto6762 agreed. I have been out of college for 40 years and it was rampant back then. I suspect it is worse now.

[@TheBasedUchiha]

Noones saying that only foreigners cheat....idk how you got that from her statement. She's just pointing out A problem. You literally came in here proving exactly why professors don't talk about it.

[@tibbar1000]

@@TheBasedUchiha I don’t know how you got something I didn’t say. My point was that the problem is wide spread. Even 40 years ago college students did not see cheating as a moral issue. I mentioned med students because I found their cheating more disturbing. I do not know of any ethnic group or discipline that stood out. Copies of final exams sold for over $100 in the ‘80’s. Are we clear now, amigo?

[@yondermountainjamfan9410]

In my experience, those paying for their own education are less likely to cheat and risk getting kicked out of the university and losing on their investment of time and money.

[@joborison9764]

Absolutely, I had a student launch a formal complaint because we would not allow him to take his phone into the exam. When we explained that looking up the answers was cheating he legitimately asked how he was supposed to know the answers if he didn’t look them up.

[@nityanewaliya]

It is the responsibility of the Invigilator to make sure there is no cheating, the sole purpose of existence of the Invigilator is for this job.

[@temporarybackup5077]

He makes a valid case

[@nerdprinter4366]

as an african who did two degrees in Europe, it's not the international students who cheat, it is the citizens, most of us are too scared to do it, why?, it's freaking expensive and we have got a lot more to lose than them. I hate when people just blame bad behaviour on international students in order to avoid facing the fact that their own kids are the problem.

[@bruney74]

Our Chinese classmates did not understand why plagiarism is wrong.
"Why do double work if it was already written." So they handed in a team paper with various fonts changing paragraph by paragraph.

[@InfiniteBumblebee337]

In college in the 70's I had instructors that did not have a working English vocabulary. They could write it but could not speak it.

[@jayl878]

I took calculus at a major American University and the prof was German and all the teaching assistants were Vietnamese. I did not understand a thing that they were explaining. I had to drop it and take it the next semester with a different prof. This was in the early 90's.

[@2361244]

I am from India and was a foreign student in USA. Many people cheat and get caught. Many schools like Northeastern University College of Computer Science are very strict and take a strong stance against it. Many International students face issues but eventually learn. The ones who don't are expelled.
Message to all fellow International students: please do not cheat. Spend the same time and effort in improving yourself and you will achieve everything

[@inquisitive8903]

What did you study?

[@2361244]

@@inquisitive8903 Master's - Artificial Intelligence

[@Lolibeth]

Yeah, having gone to and taught in college: cheating isn't restricted to only or even mostly foreign students. Every group is doing it, but there's potentially more riding on the line for international students. Just don't cheat please. We want you to learn; you won't learn by cheating.

[@deannausernametaken]

I appreciate your perspective about allowing them a second chance. Do you think it’s a huge learning curve after being able to cheat for so long?

[@drbh6331]

@@Lolibeth it's not about cheating its about the heavy fees that colleges charge the student for special courses they charge 3 times the fee of American student

[@Kevin_Kennelly]

That sword cuts both ways.
I had a math professor who was from India.
His English pronunciation was so heavily accented that it was a struggle to understand his lectures.
The school was informed of this. By multiple students. Across multiple semesters. The school did nothing.

[@rubewaddell1704]

I can verify this is true. Used to serve international students at the Department of Immigration (Australia) and a lot of the students from the countries mentioned would not pass their courses because either they were spending their time working instead of studying, or their language skills was not proficient for the level the courses they were taking required.