Axe Handles Thickness, Shock and Injury. Why you MUST thin your axe handle!
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- Опубліковано 5 бер 2021
- Sorry lads, retread of old turf for most of you but this nonsense keeps on persisting. If this isn't the final nail in the coffin then there is nothing more I can do. They will have to learn the hard way. Axes from Companies such as Gransfors Bruks, Hults Bruk, Ochsenkopf, Helko Werk etc are not ready to be used for heavy chopping in a stock condition. The only company that produces reasonably priced axes with decently proportioned handles is council tool, but even they can benefit from a bit of thinning. For the rest you must put time in and thin them down heavily till they are comfortable, have a good amount of flexibility and fit your hand shape best. The improvement is vast, so WHY NOT?
Forgot to add in this source, US Forest Service is also pretty clear that thick handles are bad www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/pdfpub...
I've been an axeman basically 35-some years now, as I near 50. I just want to say that as a man who has used these tools out of necessity in my lifetime, I appreciate your interesting and thought out content on these tools. You do a great job here Ben, showing such appreciation for these tools that mean so much to us.
I hope people take this seriously and go out and chop. It won’t take that long. I chopped with the GB for an hour and my hands hurt. Also good to hear you say you doubted SkillCult. That’s good. People should doubt you too. People should doubt me. But it seems odd those of us who chop regularly aren’t arguing about thick handles anymore. We might argue about how thin and what shape, but none of us are using stock handles. Wonder why that is?
People don't understand what skepticism is. They think it's negativity, sometimes for the sake of it. Unbelieving things that aren't proven will often pass for skepticism, but that is just belief against instead of for, and belief is basically always worthy of skepticism. Skepticism is simply acknowledging what we and others don't or may not know. People hate it because it kills their belief buzz or it bruises our egos. But if knowledge was easily transmissible, we'd all be a lot wiser. My trinity of knowledge is information, application and contemplation. Application is important.
For sure, skepticism of the variety you’re talking about often leads to cynicism, which often leads to existential nihilism. Belief is unavoidable, as you well know; we can’t experience all things firsthand, so we are forced to use our firsthand experience as a guide in trusting and choosing secondhand sources. Advice or guidance from trusted sources can help us interpret experience sooner.
Hickery is very hard as when I was cutting misquite tree in pieces it didn't break. It was half dry but when I reached the middle the axe bounced back so my family members flipped the tree so the tree was flipped but the axe handle was slipping. Also a lot of time the handle hit the misquite and did not break but my hands hurt even when hitting the middle because of the bouncing of the axe.
I've had exceptional results with a 5 1/2 lb. Rhineland pattern ax, to the extent that it is the ax I use most often, but the thickness of the hickory handle has led to 'tennis elbow,' which is the best description I have for it. This beloved ax handle has a pretty patina from repeated treatments with dirt, sap and Tung oil, so I have been apprehensive about thinning it out, but I dare say you've inspired me to choose physiological wellness over an endearing patina. Thanks, Ben.
Yeah i got tennis elbow too from thick axe handles. Get it thinned, the patina will come back!
This video is a lot more entertaining if you imagine this is the first-person view of a first date meeting off a dating site at a local pub.
Thanks a lot Ben. I bought Helko Tasmanian three months ago and I was very suprised, how slim it was. It only needed 2mm removed from each side to make the grip great, not more. Maybe the companies acctualy listen to channels like yours and make changes from time to time🙂
Great quote, that comes to my mind after watching this: "Perfection is not state where nothing more could be added, but when nothing can be removed."
I think its worth the risk of ruining one handle by going too far but finding the ideal size for your hands, than never experimenting and ruining your hands instead, time and time again.
I've done manual labour all my life, I'm like a robot with a pickaxe or mattock and their handles are like wooden legs but I still can't abide a thick axe handle.
Another point is if the handle is too thick (or thin) to grip comfortably it wears out your gripping muscles and they become the weak link and open you up to danger and over use injuries.
Great video. Spotted gum can also be thinned right down. When over thick it can feel like a piece of iron, but a thin spotty handle is similar to hickory, maybe a little heavier.
I only recently discovered the benefits of a thin handle when I restored a vintage axe that had its original handle still in great shape. I never really had a problem with the handles I had been using up to that point but the difference was night and day. I haven't quite got over the fear that the thinner vintage handle is weaker and might break. But we'll see.
Right on! I think if you had 2 identical axe heads, one hung on a club handle and the other on a nice thin handle, people would quickly find themselves reaching for the thin one. I have also noticed that most vintage axes on original handles seem to be quite thin. Nice video.
Glad you liked the video. I recently recieved a package from tuatahi and included was an axe sheath with a note saying it was from Brett Brown and was a gift. I just want to say thank you very much for the awesome gift, very much apreciated. I assume you must work at tuatahi? Must be an awesome job, very jealous
Great video! The benefit of the thicker Gransfor Bruks handle is there is wood that can be removed for a custom fit. I make my own tool handles for broadaxes, riven from logs, and I like a triangular cross section, especially at the butt end. Thinning the shaft for shock absorption is most effective in the mid shaft, but not at the butt, where a fatter taper wedges itself into the hand. Ash can become brash when it is from a slow growing tree where porous early wood rings don't have larger, dense late wood rings in between. There is also dry rot, which can be difficult to detect, until you catch a sidelong glimpse of an eight pound broadaxe head at an unusual angle on your back swing! Besides ash, I use hickory, oak, black locust, and mulberry which makes exceptional handles.
True words. Thanks for the forest service link in the description too, very interesting. Had choppers elbow about a year ago from using a beater axe at the local scout hall. Club handle with a vintage brades 5 pounder. Lesson: never leave home without your ( tuned) axe!
Ash is very flexible and that's why it's used for making hurleys for the sport of hurling. There was a famous photo of two hurleys bent full compass around each other during a "clash of the ash"
Good wood for bows too. I think owen made a few ash handles that ended up too thin and were a tad too flexible
I hardly ever chop for a whole day but usually for several hours, sometimes many days a week. my chopping axe handles are just under 20mm/ 0.75" in thickness, and around 36mm/ 1.4" width. My splitting handles are a bit larger but not by much. I use mostly ash (beech occasionally) because that's what I've got available, I've only got one hickory on a carpenter's axe so I cannot say whether it is is actually superior, it might be but there's nothing wrong with ash. One thing though, as you said the quality of the wood in ash is very important and has to be good, spot on again!
right on the money, Ben! These thin, flat handles you see on especially old American axes are such a joy to use and provides a lot of directional control. On the contrary I have had a Liam Hoffmann axe in my hands and they are scary thin, lol, to thin for my taste
First time I cut with a clubby handle I had bloody blisters between my fingers! Since then every handle I've put on an axe is thin enough to flex when you pull it across your knee. No shock, no discomfort, improved "chopability" since the center of mass is closer to the cutting edge.
Nailed it again. Thick handles go hand-in-hand with thick grinds and poor-geometry heads. Its a symptom of mass-appeal... nothing but an accommodation for the lowest-competence user. Aka the common user who only uses an axe to bludgeon kindling on their front porch a few times a year and just wants a handle that will withstand the maximum number of sloppy overstrikes. Thin handles (like thin grinds) are a sign of a truly competent and discerning user.
Well I know my next project. I’ve got an old axe basically out of the trash and it has a much thinner handle than anything I see anywhere. It is much nicer to use
Very well explained, thank you. I normally don't watch such long videos, this was an exception.
My 7 lb American pattern Elwell has an original handle with a width of about 22- 23mm [13/16 - 7/8"] I used to use it occasionally for difficult splitting work but way to old for that now. There is a reason that so many of these 'monster' axes still have original handles ... they were left in the rack and more sensible smaller axes used in preference.
It has found in its proper home now - hung on the workshop wall ;
I think you are right, the big axes seem to be more commonly in excellent condition. I think they can be improved by hanging them on short racing axe handles but still very heavy to use
Love the long videos honestly, learn a ton.
My specs for an endurance chopping handle are 18mm thick, 33mm wide, large palm swell. Loose grip, smooth and accurate swing with an emphasis on speed rather than force. Nice, very informative, thanks for sharing.
I settled on 18mmx34mm so super close.
I am very nervous slimming a Spotted Gum handle down that far as it's not as strong as Hickory. And very expensive to get here in Alaska. But , i'de rather have a gum handle break than further injure my 62 year old hands, wrists and elbows.
Great video again Ben.
I have a couple of large axes (32" handles) I've owned for a while; only cheap axes: one I bought from a well known homeware chain and one from a junk shop. The junkshop axe, I've sharpened and use for felling as it was easier to use and felt lighter. I've thinned the (hickory) handle on the axe I bought from the homeware store, but it's still not as thin as the junkshop one; it's use has mainly been for splitting or clearing roots. it was only last week I picked them both up at the same time and realised the junkshop axe was actually heavier. I weighed them and found that the junkshop axe was 7.5lbs and the homeware axe was 6.5lbs.
And yes, I realise I should have much lighter axes and shorter handles, but I bought them before I knew better, but it just goes to show how handle thickness make a difference.
Just out of interest, do you have any Kent pattern axes? If so, what would you use them for? I acquired the head of one and want to put it to use.
Kent patterns are nice axes for general use. Good for hedgelaying, carpentry and light chopping. not really the best for felling but they can get it done
Most people think this is all BS.
Go make a living swinging a chunk of steel on the end of a stick and then you have ground to stand on.
I destroyed my elbow swinging an steel handled Estwing framing hammer. I have long since switched to a hickory handled Vaughn that I thinned nearly 50% to help eliminate the shock and take the strain off my elbow and forearm.
I treat my axes the same way.
People can talk all the shit they want, but watch what people who actually USE tools do and learn from their experience.
great information. the iteraction of handle wood, shape, target wood and axe head are a subltle blend for sure. I,m wioser for this. - thanks Ben
I never knew how much of a difference handle thickness made until I started cutting wood across the grain. When I started with axes as a child I was just splitting so I didn't mind too terribly. My first day out in the woods I decided to use a vintage 4 pound double bit on an absolute club of a handle and as you can imagine, my forearms were torched in minuets.
i now watched until 02:54.
Great Video Ben! You speak out of my Soul (i guess thats how one says it lol), you had exactly the thougts and conclusions as me. But i dont have the dedication to make videos.
"firms switched to hickory and didnt change handle design" Yes, when i went looking for my first axes to buy i saw that a few firms have hickory or ash availabe but both in the same size! Thats just not good.
Great video and good reminder, thanks Ben!
That was very educational. After watching one of your other videos I bought a composite handle Husqvarna 27'' splitting axe. Haven't used it yet, hard to find here in Canada, only on Amazon and snooze you loose if it goes out of stock. Prices rising on everything these days.
Thanks so much for this insight!
I agree, thin handles are hands savers. The first time i'd started felling i've used a hardware store german stile with a very thik handle out of the box, and i've finished with my hands full of blisters...
Now i only use basque or biscaine style axes. I love their handle profile.
thank you for the help, you put out great content :)
Order shipped for new tuahtahi camp axe 🪓 can't wait
I thin the handles on all my axes, even if it's only for banging wedges, one day i forgot my axe and used our spare axe for banging wedges and it's a huge difference when you switch back to a nice thin handle, it's so much easier to hold on to and doesn't transfer vibrations as much
@sly dankass For my hands, i like to have a fairly loose grip on my handles, so a niche thin handle with a good palm swell feels nicer than a thick club of a handle that you really need to hold on to so it doesn't fly out of your hand
Another reason axe shot might not be mentioned is because they didn't think to mention it. For example in old cook books they often don't mention stuff. You get really frustrating lines like "prepare the rabbit in the usual way". Also subjective terms or phrases like "not so slim as to flex too easily" as really hard to interpret. How much flexibility is too much? The thin handle I mentioned I couldn't use but I imagine it would have flexed on the swing. It was thin enough that the travel of the head on the swing would have been delayed. Or the handle would flex in swing.
Unfortunately getting good stock to rive decent handles is hard for me in Australia. The Ash I can get hold of is Desert Ash which is harder than English ash. I might have to go up into the hills and see if I can find me some blackwood (an Acacia) for a log for some blanks. Finding a hickory wattle (another acacia) would be cool but I've been looking for awhile, they grow anywhere around me. Guess why its called Hickory wattle.
Greetings from Greece! The UA-cam algorithm done its magic and I found the absolute best channel regarding axe knowledge! Congratulations for the user based real world approach to the subject.Iam also an axe user for cutting and splitting firewood mostly from olive trees. I recently came up buying a Bellota axe (ref 25131) with 1500gr head with an 80 cm very thick handle made from ash (I assume).
The steel is fine,it penetrates the wood very well and i can sharpen it at field,BUT the handle is very thick to my liking.
Whats your opinion about thinning an ash handle regarding the shock absorption?
Subscribed.
you can thin ash down quite a bit, it doesnt need to be as thin as hickory though. try it out and see what you like, you can always replace the handle if its a failure. glad you like the channel!
Hi Ben . Love your informative video's . Just curious to know where exactly you buy your axe handles ? as i seem to struggle to find good examples for reasonable money . The last couple i have bought have been OCHSENKOPF which are good but expensive at about £35 . You mention Council Tool handles but where can you buy them ? . Keep up the good work .
p.s There are some people in this country who work axes for more than 5 minutes as i regularly work 6/7 hours splitting !
I mostly buy gransfors and ochsenkopf handles. its really hit and miss though. I can't really recommend much else. the ochsenkopf have the best shape but the gransfors more consistent wood quality but bad shapes. both need a lot of thinning. council tool handle spares aren't available here
Excellent vid !
What is that red axe that you were showing with the slimmed straight handle ? It (looks) like a 5 lb Council Dayton pattern with bevels. But I've never seen one or ever heard of one. ?
I have very much noticed how much my thick insulated Chopper Mitts and insulated gloves reduce vibration when chopping. Tho I don't wear them for impact and vibration reduction. I wear them to stay warm.
Wearing thick gloves and mitts really increase Thick handles. So there are more reasons to thin handles down.
Thanks for the vid ! It's Appreciated !
its actually an old Brades 4lb
How is your Müller Axes Handle? I dont have anything to compare mine Handle to, but i think they are also as tick as the others?
I didnt watch the Video yet, but i think the reason why People dont understand why the Handle should be thin and Manufacturers make these fat handles is that few use them for longer time a day. While its a different case with Sports such as Tennis, Baseball or Cricket which get played competivly and for many hours a day. And of course Timbersports.
Oh and thank you for the pdf, never knew about it!
One thing that gets overlooked alot in my opining is that the way you grip the axe really affects how much shock gets transferred. When i started chopping a couple of months ago, i was surprised how much shock got in my hands and as i thought with my very thin basque handle that shouldn't be an issue, the problem was that i was deathgripping the handle and therefore still got alot of shock. If i then think about other beginners with even less knowledge or the usual gränsfors fanboy....
if you chop wrong enough the handle really doesnt change much i would imagine. So again, the technique really matters alot here too i think.
Ben, I am new to your channel, and am in a learning stage on my interest in using axes. I am not in the Gransfors cult. But maybe Gransfors leaves the handle oversize so the user can shape it to his liking. I personally rather it bigger than too small. You can always take away than add to it.
I didn't really care til got my classic GB from Owen with a handle he made....... Now I know the difference 😁
I’ll be breaking out the rasp and spoke shave……
Thankyou man
It all depends on a person hand size and comfort on any handle on any tools everyone should use what is comfortable and most ergonomic for them
No matter how large your hands are, modern handles must be thinned to do any sort of extended chopping unless you like tennis elbow. Changing the handle shape allows for better grip and control depending on how you grip it
Ben - have you done a video on handle modification technique? I see Buckin does it by eye and I've has a go on some hammer handles recently. Tool selection, thinning technique, matching too a template and sizing handle relative to head weight would be a fascinating video ....just sayin.
personally I dont think there is a hard and fast rule. Just use whatever tools work best for you and whatever shape fits your hand best. You have to find that with trial and error
@@benscottwoodchopper fair enough - didn’t mention to mess up new handles but will just have to chance it . I like the Japanese wood wrasp you showed in a video I saw . I’ve used a big draw knife ( too big I think) and tried a new spokeshave which isn’t much good in my hands . Got to get into my helko werks and make something of it. BTW - 2 more big beaches down for some entertainment 😀!
I have a double bit hardware store handle that I octagoned. You can thin it down more heel to toe, making it more round and still have the flats to minimize twisting.
hi jeffrey!
@@pilkpulk8284 Good morning, sir!
@@jeffreyrubish347 good morning, i wish you a great day,sir!
@@pilkpulk8284 You, as well my friend.
People have payed a lot of money for powertools to be better balanced so they send less shock into the body. There's a reason why "anti-vibration" is a selling point . When using tools like that for 8+ hours a day it becomes very obvious when something is wrong. It doesn't even have to be an impact tool but axes certainly are and so the handle has to be engineered correctly. I'd love to see some slow motion video of what an axe handle is doing when it makes impact. I bet there's some very interesting science behind a good and bad handle shape.
Anybody that doesn't think handle thinning is important is probably inexperienced. You just can't get in that many swings without being in a lot of pain when it comes to crosscutting.
You just can't get in that many swings without being in a lot of pain when it comes to crosscutting.
absolute rubbish. I am 61 and have used axes and many other hand tools all my life. If you are getting pain bucking a log with an axe that readily something else is wrong, Using axes in an easy efficient manner will not come overnight after watching youtube.
@@basteward4567 I was talking about using thick handled axes.
@@basteward4567 sigh....
@@ethicalaxe So am i . If a few swings with a thick handled axe gives you pain something is wrong with you , not the axe. This whole thin handle thing is a youtube story . Years ago people just got on and used their axes , some liked a thinner handle , some liked a thicker handle. . I have never seen any conclusive research into shock through a wooden handle.
If you are happy with a thin handle and it is comfortable to use fine , but if someone says they prefer a thicker handle , they are not wrong in any way , shape or form.
@@basteward4567 what's your favorite work axe setup?
What part does harmonics play in handle comfort, the standing wave along the Helve should have its harmonic nodes where your hands are as that point has no vibration.
I guess this is why axe helves are curved, to place the node closest to the users hands?
Your point of manufacturers folding to demand hit it on the head. Anyone that argues with thin handles being better is biased and doesn't understand the physiology of the hand, forearm and elbow.
For your handles, are you taking stock handles and modifying, or saw mills and selecting timber for blanks
I just thin down stock handles
Good video but you know i will not totally agree with you😄 I suppose one way of looking at it is that if they sent you a Helko Tasmanian with a thin handle and you wanted it a bit thicker you would be a bit miffed .
I'd recommend a pair of calipers to actually measure the dimensions. Less subjective that way. Showing to handles together in a camera its very hard to tell if there is a difference.
At the very beginning you were on the road to making the best of handles, then you went to the store.
Splitting, or riving the stock before shaping a handle gives you something that sings in your hand.
While the grain of sawed wood is all over the place, riven wood has grain from end to end.
I couldn’t agree more, you definitely know your axes.
I’m glad they sell the handles to large, I enjoy customizing mine l can’t imagine anyone else getting it right.
I don’t know why most gransfors fans don’t thin their handles. It doesn’t mean that gransfors axes are bad, it’s kinda like a personal preference. In my opinion, an axe will only be yours after you modified and used it.
I own a Helko Werk Tasmanian. But I don't think that the handle is thick. May be because I have large hands. Gransfors Axe handle in other way are too thin for me. May be it is a personell preference?! Good video and discussion though. Thanks a lot. Wish you a good week.
The handle is far too thick by all accounts, when you look at old loggers handles and modern racing axes it becomes pretty obvious. Thick handles cause injuries ua-cam.com/video/o1GnXG5L-nM/v-deo.html
That Thumbnail tho, just great hahahaha
ben have you heard of them c. whitehouse royal oak axes? i have a big 6lb one
Yes, from what I understand they are worth a lot
@@benscottwoodchopper ah cool, my dads had it some 30-40 years
What is that Blue Axe?
Mueller Biber axe, extra wide
How thin do you like your handles?
There isnt a set dimension they must be, you have to experiment
I think the issue with meaty handles isn't so much shock transmission, but actually shock generation. When the axe is swung, the handle gains momentum, and when the head stops into the wood, becoming the fulcrum, that momentum generates a force at the free end of the lever: the hands.
That being said, the Commonwealth doesn't have the monopoly on axes, and in other european areas you find lumberjack axes with quite thick handles.
For exemple, in this video is the manufacturing of an axe handle in Belgium (from 11:55), and you can see it's rather thick and clubby:
ua-cam.com/video/HHuLNvlNDOM/v-deo.html
And one of these handles in its natural habitat:
ua-cam.com/video/EXnvRisct2s/v-deo.html
Here, in Catalonia, very roundish handles:
ua-cam.com/video/K9-r4kXqciw/v-deo.html
Here a full collection of various romance area axes, and most of them have thick roundish handles, even felling axes.
Some of these large felling axe in a perdiod picture:
mediatheque.parc-marais-poitevin.fr/fs01/IEL01/145/f/1addeda55e70000000000743_BIG.jpg
Here also, in the Black Forest, thick roundish handles:
ua-cam.com/video/hL166BPL4EE/v-deo.html
I'm not saying it's good, I just notice that thick roundish handles is not uncompatible with the job of lumberjack, and it seems to be agreed upon by many continental Europeans from different countries, with many different head patterns. But many of these handle design are straight, with few to no palm swell. It's likely these axes require a totally different swinging technique than the Anglo-Americanish axe.
Yes, In the video I said that european axes often traditionally have large handles made from ash. I think ash absorbs shock far better than hickory meaning you can have a thicker handle and still be comfortable. the problem occured when the axe makers switched from ash to hickory but kept the thick designs, with hickory you must make it thin or it will cause you injury. Very good links, I have seen a couple of them before but the catalonian one is something i have never came across, very cool
Lot of factory made axes here in Europe have ash handles which are ash sapwood. Traditionally the axe handle is taken radially (the direction of growth rings) from a log, but with ash sapwood the wood fibers will brake more easily from impact. So if you make a radial ash sapwood handle, it cant't be very thin. That's why you should cut it tangentially if you use ash sapwood for an axe handle. According to Baltic traditions, the best wood for axe handle is European white elm (Ulmus laevis) and second best is rowan (Sorbus aucuparia). Birch and ash sapwood are most available woods, so they are widely used. If you seek information about traditional woodworking and tools, then it's the ethnography you need to make reasearch on.
🤝🤝👍👍👍
I've seen western style axes with original handles from pre 1900 and the handles are so so thin. You can flex them with your hands.
Interestingly all the Japanese axes I've had go through my hands are relatively thick.
When I'm making a handle I rive my handles. Sawn handles use the log more efficiently but as I'm sure you know can easily produce a handle that's inferior to a riven handle.
The axe handles at 17:38 are similar to what I was talking about. Very thin. Although those look a tad thicker than the one I'm thinking of.
Surely good information but show how to do it.
I have in another video!!!
I think it's very important to wear wrist protectors.
Whats a wrist protector?
@@benscottwoodchopper wrist guard
They make baseball bats out of ash you'd think there wouldn't be any issues with strength using it for an axe handle???
Buy council tool and you won't have that bloody problem.
yes the council tool handles are good but the rest of the axe can have problems. Also they dont have many patterns. I really like their boys axe but it can be outclassed by some other axes that come on thick handles. Really depends on what you are looking for your axe to do well
I've experienced a couple council axes. Poorly tempered steel, ineffective geometry, warped bits, ugly red paint, deep grind marks, very inconsistent quality. I guess for fifty bucks you get what you pay for and then some, but they suck.
Purchase council tool axes and you won't have to deal with thick European handles.
you can thin down the thick handles, I primarily buy axes based on what the head is like because that's the thing you can't fix
But you have to deal with a very mediocre head
where ever you go, there will always be complains about everything.
Unfortunately with so called progress, significant quality has been sacrificed for the fundimentals of capitalism, high production efficiency for as low a cost as possible
I never in my life ever considered thinning a handle.thinning a handle will weaken the strength of the handle.
Actually false. Thinner handles can be stronger