Will review my Wintrac Pro again after the vacation. Fourth, and final, winter and 2000km through Sweden and Denmark in December. Hopefully I get some Swedish snow up in Stockholm. Will also be interesting to see, what the Oresund Bridge will be like. Should I try to take some video footage of it for you?
That was a brilliant video and a great watch. Its really nice to see someone who will say it straight because so many tyre "tests" are just set up to make the winter look great for the sponsors. This is real, excellent information which makes an informed decision possible. Its got me wondering though - the smaller Mini (hatch) doesn't come with 4x4 so is it better to get the smaller car on winters or move up to the larger, heavier car on all seasons but with 4x4?
One tip what you need to do with a season tires. And this a old trick we use with normal tires. Lower the air in side the tire . Winter tires are softer tires so in the winter the tire Stay more flex in the cold. The 4 season tires are make to use in A years long. So the tire Will be less flex in the winter . This is what with normal tires do go hard in the winter and lose a lot of flex in the tires. Lower de Summer.tires with lower air . Like a 2 bar tire normal in the winter we set IT on 1.6 bar this way the flex of the tires come back. Speciaal with the new cars what air presser in the tire is higher than normal do the miles per galon fual Will be les on paper. You can test this with a VW Bluemotion en the non bleumotion car . Both are the same only the transmissie and higher tire presser make the different on the fual . Set the VW non bleumotion car in the same airpress in the tire and drive IT and almost the same miles on a gallon of fual. This is a cheat of the cars make IT on paper Just a little bether to sell the bleumotion car to you.
This confirms what we observe here in the snowy mountains: AWD/4WD lets you accelerate harder and go faster, but the winter tires allow you (without power drifting) to brake and turn easier. Many people feel confident in the snow with AS and AWD because they can accelerate hard, but then braking and cornering fails them, and they end up sliding off. As my father used to say, “without good tires, 4WD just means you have four wheels spinning in a ditch”.
My dad used to say that the biggest difference between 4wd and fwd is that 4wd will allow you to get farther into the back country before you get stuck, so it costs more for the tow!
Excellent point, why I still run winter tires on my wrx. Awd can get you going way faster in snow/slush and rain w/o you feeling loss of traction until you try to stop and then you plow on into a tree.
A huge part of winter driving is breaking and stopping, especially when you are driving down hills. I wish you spent a bit more of the video detailing the difference in deceleration. Otherwise, a very fun test.
A lot of people forget about this, yeah you can get going better with AWD, but you gotta stop and turn as well no matter the drivetrain. It's why I run winters on my Audi, best of it all with none of the drawbacks.
This. I liked the steep incline part of the test where he said "if you live at the top of the hill..." - because I do. The snow at the T-junction at the bottom of the hill gets well polished both by summer-tyre clowns spinning their hockey-puck tyres down there and being able to climb that and get home is great. BUT! Next day you go out, you have to descend that hill again and stop at the bottom or else you'll have a tree-trunk shaped modification to the front of your car. Summer tyres simply won't stop. All Season tyres usually struggle to stop unless you crawl down the hill - you'll get next to no deceleration from them. Only winter tyres let you confidently bring the car to a halt on the polished snow at the bottom without any fear of overshooting the junction either into the path of other vehicles or, like summer tyres, sliding straight over the junction and head-butting a tree.
@@jamieduff1981 yup, agree to that. The worst part is that rust belt states, i.e. Michigan uses salt to condition roads so little to none thinks about upgrading from all seasons, because... Most of the time they work. I chuckle, because AS is fine to use here, as long as you don't need to go to groceries or worse to emergency room during snow storm...
My suggestion for this video is to have an exact braking test to determine stopping distance like Motorweek does and a slalom test around cones and emergency maneuver test driving around an object in the road (a cone), also some variations on the emergency manuver test like braking at the same time. That would be important IMO to a lot of drivers like those who think AWD makes the car safer or invincible. This video wouldn't be meant to say that winter tires make the car invincible but would say if they improve emergency handling and braking at all
this ^ and to add that a moose test on snow and another one on ice would be extremely informative for safety between the types of tires and propolsion systems (XD). i get that the video was more oriented on the performance u get get out of the differencies, but i tend to make my choices first on max safety and then on performace/fun(when my pocket can afford the second part)
When it comes to braking, every car on the planet is the same, could have 1WD or 4WD, it doesn't matter. Here is 100% tyre works. The better and more specialized to the circumstances, the shorter the breaking distance. No point to compare different cars with different systems. Slalom test is completely different, it's 50% tyre mechanical grip and 50% the type of wheel traction and electronic stability systems.
@@HyadumHH Actually, not all cars are the same when it comes to braking. Some cars have electronic brake force distribution, some don't. Some have fixed ratio front to back... Some have mechanical ABS, some have electronic ABS. Some have 4 channel ABS, some have 3 channel ABS, etc. These things make braking performance vastly different.
I live in Canada and have driven a lot in winter conditions. This video leaves something very, very important out. All-season tires are good for the first season in winter, then become progressively worse in every succeeding winter. Winter tires are good even as they age, due to better rubber compounds. Reality.
Even winter tires get quite a bit worse as they age as the softness and amount of tread decreases is so much more important on snow than on summer tires on dry asphalt (where a slick tyre is best anyway unless it rains)
I ran all terrains for the last 6 years I lived in Canada (Ottawa). This was mostly because they only make dedicated winter tires in a limited range of sizes and once you get above 33s there isn't a lot out there. The A/Ts worked well.
@@darkwingscooter9637 It's normally warm conditions that kill winter tires. The compound gets too soft and starts to wear more quickly. Anything over about 5C/40F is not all that good for them and they are much better when temps are at least 10C/18F colder than that.
@@rich7447 The other thing is whether that is outside temp or tire temp. Because even when it is very cold, tires will warm up quickly on dry tarmac. It looks like about 30C above ambient after 1/2hour highway driving. So, by that reasoning, unless it regularly gets to below -25C where you live...
Absolutely, but pottering along without drama on winter tyres wouldn't make a exciting video. Having a car sideways might keep boy racers happy , so skip over the break test , and let them see you can still lose control on all season tyres.
@@robduncan599 , Yup, the snow tires Front Wheel Drive definitely won this comparison, braking is one of the most critical components of safe driving and avoiding the most common type of car accident, which is rear-ending another car. I bet the braking stop distance was significantly better also, possibly why the data wasn't shared even though the test was run.
@@EssPhour In the newest videos comparing winter tyres, and another one comparing 4season tyres, you have the data for the braking test. Few meters differences. But by choosing the right tyre, you can end up with less difference with 4season, than taking certain winter tyres models. It shows that nobody's best in everything, and depending on what you want and what you choose, you might be suprised :D
@@schmoborama idk, closest my Prius with snow tires has been to getting stuck was driving through 8.5” of unplowed/untracked snow in CO. I did have to rock it back and forth a few times to get going but once I did it was fine. I figure getting stuck isn’t as easy as most people with AWD make it seem. (Coming from a former lifelong driver of, and faithful believer 4x4 full-size trucks. Really did a 180 with the Prius 😂)
Jonathan, you are, without doubt, the best tyre reviewer on the internet. You’re also a pretty nifty driver. Have you considered branching out into car reviews, with the same methodological quality?
Thank you! I have thought about car reviews, but there's a lot of people doing amazing jobs who are way more passionate about cars than me. I really just love tyres!
You might like the “Savage Geese” car review channel, if you don’t watch his reviews already. I wouldn’t call SG “scientific,” but he has a refreshingly sober and logical style of reviewing. He does actually fairly in-depth during the “In The Shop” segments of his videos.
this is true, but if one is driving in dry conditions 90% of the time, the tire that has solid dry braking is also worth considering. Don't forget wet & aquaplaning.
@@schmoborama the AWD didn't really have better handling, there were just more wheels spinning to push him forwards in the general direction he wanted to go.
@@schmoborama Going sideways with all four wheels spinning faster than the speed the car is traveling is hardly what I would call "better traction" but I guess you can believe what you want
I'd like to see more braking tests, such as a downhill stop on a slope similar to the hill you did the uphill start with. This is where I appreciate winters with FWD - you notice your lack of grip when starting, so you drive more carefully. Then, when you need to brake, you're pleasantly surprised. With AWD on all seasons, you have no idea how slippery the road is until you need to stop.
I'd also like to see the difference between AWD with vehicles with front-wheel primary with rear wheels kicking in, and AWD with rear wheels primary, and front wheels kicking in.
So AWD with snow is obviously the best choice I have AWD with Michelin cross climate (pretty close to a snow tire (out performs some snow tires) .. still will go better but stop not quite as well .. AWD/4WD will always be better with the same tires than 2wd Everything else is a balance.. where I live November-April is probably 60% dry/20% wet and 20% snow. A dedicated winter tire will have reduced performance most of the time over my all weather tires
@christopherryan7178 ummm... yeah... obviously, but the point of the video was to show that AWD isn't necessarily as important as the tires (which every dum dum always raves about needing AWD anywhere that you get more than 1" of snow... as though, FWD isn't a choice). I've lived in the rust belt most of my life and driven FWD, AWD, and 4WD vehicles... and currently own ONLY FWD vehicles. Almost every year, I find myself PASSING turtles in trucks and SUVs on snowy roads because they're using garbage tires. (which is also probably why I typically see trucks and AWD vehicles stuck in the median)
Yes, a downhill BRAKING test would have been more telling next to the uphill start. I agreed it's better to have good tires and FWD than AWD with junk all-season tires that are biased toward summer roads.
I think the takeaway from this video is that the best combination is AWD with snow tires. AWD/4WD tends to give inexperienced drivers (i.e. the VAST majority of drivers on the road) a false sense of security because they can accelerate from a stop with less wheel spin, only to realize that they can’t stop or change directions nearly as quickly as they thought. That’s why we end up seeing so many SUVs on their roof in a ditch every winter. Very few people in my area make the investment in their own safety and buy winter tires, even though we generally have many days worth of freezing conditions, snow and/or ice throughout the winter. The other takeaway is that a proper all-season tire (not the US style “3 season” tire) would be a really good option for an area that only gets very occasional snow and no ice. That definitely did not used to be the case.
Those tires are called "all weather " tires in the US. Even in heavy snow areas (where you are going to switch to winter tires) they make a good choice for a summer tire because you can always get an early or late snow that catches you off guard before or after you've installed the dedicated winter tires. That way you are covered with at least somewhat capable tires.
I'm really happy to have found this channel. I love how they go the extra-mile in order to bring the best review for tyres. The most underrated part of a car. Specially everyday tyres and not just super expensive sports ones. Thank you and keep the good work.
Great video! As someone that lives in a "Nordic" climate I always go for the most extreme deep snow tires I can find, my logic is that even if I *can* accelerate (in an AWD car) I really would rather be able to brake and turn!
Really interesting coming to this video as a Goodyear employee from the US. Neither of these tires are available here, and now I'm going to have to go look them up. Update: Very interesting to see that neither of these tires are just rebranded versions of tires available stateside. Totally different tread patterns than the all weather and winter tires we carry.
I discovered your channel fairly recently. And the more I watch, the more I discover that you have a video for all the questions that I have been having for the past few years in terms of car/tyre combos comparisons. You channel is a gem. Thank you!
I think it would be interesting to see the difference in more extreme cold like -35°C or something, where the dedicated rubber mix should give the winter tires a bigger advantage. It all depends on where you live and what conditions your car is going to be in. Great video tho👍
Excellent video. You hit on the key game changer - it's fun to drive all-weather tires in the snow! I was positively giddy when you turned off traction control on the skid pad, hung out the rear and slowly pulled away...
2wd in, 4wd out. That's how it worked in Canada. Now I'm in MD and the approach is "more throttle". People here get stuck without any identifiable reason.
Best work, again. Must interesting but for me was the lack of time difference in the lap and what you said about the front end. As others in the comments have mentioned a further video on braking and steering situations would be really good to see as that's probably where most come unstuck when the snow falls. Just had Cross Climate SUVs fitted and the grip and confidence through some snow and slush over the weekend was priceless, especially with a family now.
All season tires are better know as NO season tires. Americans especially are loath to spend money maintaining their vehicles or spend money where the rubber meets the road. Where I live in north USA, people driving around in their huge SUV’s, SUV stands for stupid useless vehicle, or in the few proper cars almost never install winter tires. They prefer to have false confidence until they find out they cannot stop or turn better with AWD. Then they crash and STILL won’t get the proper tires. I see this every day in my work.
@@GilturnerknocksoutphonyFloyd You are referring to a small subset of American drivers. Generally, Americans maintain their vehicles as best they can and purchase tires as needed. There are those drivers that put a little too much faith in AWD/4WD and make some foolish decisions. However, not ALL SUV drivers are irresponsible. This video test demonstrates that AWD with all-season tires is just as competent as FWD with winter tires. Stopping distances will be the biggest factor, with the advantage going to the winter tires. However, most drivers will be able to get by in a moderate snow storm with all-season tires and some patience.
@@RysterARCEE on average, people in Europe take better care of their cars. That might be as a result of stricter rules - countries with harsh winters require by law to have winter tires installed (same as Canada), plus the actual tech review process also involves actual safety rules - as far as I know, some states in the US don't even require emission testing, because freedom!
Those results were not what I was expecting. The FWD car did better than I thought against the AWD. It really shows how much of a difference full blown snow tires can make over all season tires. Your so lucky to have access to all those fantastic testing tracks. It is probably because of your excellent testing methodology and unbiased reviews. Great video.
No its not The test is not correct . A front wheel car easy turn IT , IT drive only the front wheel and not more. Means you steer and the car fallow that way. The back of the car Just follow the front. The 4x4 all wheel drive Will allways push and pull . The all wheel drive have only 3% slip on the front and real wheel drive. Means if 1 weel lose traction the back Will jump in . Than other thing is that a 4x4 can not make the same turn . IT can not , the wheel it self can not make the same max out of the wheellturn like the 2weel drive. IT can not for one reason . If IT go to scharp the backwheel Will puss IT like a rwd and you lose controle in the corners . So you can never show this way what wheel tire u need for your car. Only is same car and change the tires . So 2 wheel drive with winter OR 4 season tires . And with 4x4 same way. No is Just show hummmmm nothing really .
Would have been nice if you had included some data for AWD with Winter Tires to compare how much of a difference they make on the same AWD car vs. All Seasons.
People who live on cold climates ( e.g. Canada) , don't buy winter tires for performance around the track. It's mainly for safety. Acceleration and cornering speed is not of concern, as much as stopping ability. Most cars nowadays have AWD, which helps going forward.....but ALL cars have 2WD stopping ( as it is the two front tires that bear the weight when it comes to deceleration), and without good grip, you end up in the ditch or behind somebody's rear bumper. Emphasis on breaking trumps performance around the track, accident avoidance is key. Many people rely too heavily on the 4WD ability of their vehicle, which gives them a false sense of security because of the initial forward grip, which quickly disappears when they hit the brakes and start sliding (to their surprise). Food for thought.
Great video, and I super happy to see you using Minis! I am an enthusiastic countryman owner. But I have 1 small nitpick, or a "Well Actually" moment, if you will....in the video you state that it's not a "proper " AWD system. Yes it is made by BMW, but does not operate the same. It is only in 2WD at speeds over 75 mph. It is a variable AWD system that defaults to a 50/50 split iirc, and can put as much as 90% of the the power to the rear wheels in certain situations. As speed increases it progressively shifts power to the front wheels until 100% fwd is reached, around 75 mph.
I leave All Weather tires installed on my Volvos year round. You get the same summer performance as a good All Season tire with about 75% of the winter grip and braking performance of a full on Winter tire. Pretty much best of both worlds without having to swap tires.
@@Odat agreed all season tires are pretty crap in the winter. All weather tires strike a good balance IMO. I've been running Nokian WR G3s and when they need replacement I'll probably install WR G4s.
Ha! I do exactly the same, but with winter tires. What do I get with this? Well, winter tires are softer, as a result when I reach the grip limit on a dry tarmac tires to not snap into sliding, they warn you by gradual increasing of lateral movement and I always have enough time to counter that slide. Driving becomes WAY more predictable.
People have wondered why I put cross-climates on my AWD Jag XE. This video explains why, I’m glad I have spent slightly extra to have them. Another excellent comparison video. 👍
As usual, very interresting video. You are asking and answering the right questions. Thanks for that! It would have been interresting, if you had the time, to add 4wd with winter tires in the test.
Again. Exactly the kind of video I was looking for I'm thinking about getting a VW arteon and have been playing with the thought of getting a all-wheel drive model with all seasons as winter tires(maybe even full year round) Weather in Austria in my local region isn't getting too cold or snowy, so all seasons would make more sense in most conditions
if you dont really get much snow at all screw winter tires. living in upstate new york, we get around 3feet /1 meter of snow every winter on top of all the ice, slush ect ect. in that scenario it was like night and day.
I had an impreza wagon with all seasons for 5 years in the mountains. Currently mazda 3 turbo with all seasons. No issues driving through snow & ice. Previously a front drive camry. Biggest issue with it was steep grades & driveway.
@@thebarkingmouse all seasons are great, granted the all seasons i had on my 2019 rav4 adventure were garbage. the snow tires made me go wow. in snow and ice, 30-40mph isnt bad at all if there is a foot- foot and a half on the road. i had all seasons on my silverado 1500 and that was fine mostly because there wasnt a ditch i could hit and get stuck in lmao.
Great review as always. Personally, since I can start moving, even slower, I would take better braking and handling over acceleration, in such circumstances. Cause it's not only me on the road, the one moving on opposite direction might veer onto me, or the one in front of me might have a sudden obstacle in front of them
I've loved these videos! Pretty much confirming what I've learned! It would be cool to see AWD with all seasons vs AWD with snow tires. I think people forget the best of both worlds is an option!!
The 4 wheel drive might not be such a good choice in winter with the all-season-tyres in real life (i.e. drivers who can't drift and only have one lane width). By the way, up hill means on the other side you've to drive downhill ...
Reminder to Americans: the all season tire here is three peak mountain snowflake rated. It's not what is called all season in America, which typically aren't snow rated.
I will say something no one ever said: your reviews are hands down the best ones on the internet. What? I'm not the first to say it? Doesn't matter, still true 😄
Thank you I know it's been some time but this was one of my comments I think about a year ago thank you for taking the time to do this test because it is a good test to see how capable a tire really can be
I've had hankook all sessions fitted to our vw tiguan 4motion about a year ago and there brilliant all year round tyres, but really came into there own last week in the snow, possibly my favourite tyre tests are the winter one keep up the good work, 👍
@@random13627 it really depends on the climate where you live, here in the UK it's mainly wet and cold through winter so an all season tyre works well with the 4 motion all year round, How ever if it was just front or rear wheel drive then I'd go full winters 👍
The fact that a two wheel drive with winter tires can match and even better an all wheel drive with all seasons proves how much of an advantage they give drivers. Winter tires are the only rational choice in winter.
You should have compared breaking distances as stopping in the winter is much more important IMHO than how fast you can accelerate. Also the test were all on snow but what about on ice ? Maybe a follow up video to cover these items.
Nice comparison, but I really want to see a normal all season vs winter. These all seasons are actually all weathers, which are winter rated and legal to drive in places that mandate winter tires.
Great video, my Mini has new all season tyres now fitted....and my van has new snow tyres...bring on the white stuff....but must admit i've been an advocate of winter tyres for years, most haven't been involved in the kind of accident i was in, even on cold wet tarmac these tyres buy you a fair stopping distance regular rubber can't match !
I didn't feel the video was rushed. Short and sweet. I've never used snow tires but always loved and felt confident with my AWD and 4wd. Never had any issues. Now i habe a fwd suv with no snow tires and i can't even get out of the driveway haha
The thing is that after 1 summer I doubt the all season tyre will have the same grip and performance as when its brand new, so i think that is also an important topic when it comes to all season tyres and will be a good test to see the difference between.
Great comparison, however I wonder what the results would be after having the all seasons on the car after a year or two. Most people only use their winter tires for 3-4 months of the year while folks who only drive with all seasons have them on year round. How much would wear affect the results?
My winter tires are on from the middle of October to the second week of May. Two years ago we had our last snow of the year on May 17. I was glad the snows were still on, because it was a solid 20 cm of snow.
My first car which was a 06 taurus had michelin premier A/S tires, and once they got to less than half tread they really struggled to accelerate in anything other than a dusting of snow, so yes their performance drops off quickly. Winter tires hold their performance until they get low on tread.
Lots of people in my snow-covered region buy 4wd cars, which may help them pull out of a driveway or onto the highway, but does nothing to help with braking, and maybe marginally helps with cornering. I drive a FWD with winter tires and haven't been stuck in the snow for over 20 years (when I had a rwd car with all seasons)
4wd works better for "engine braking", namely because it spreads the engine braking over 4 tires instead of 2. It's one of the main advantages of 4wd. This test appears to use normal brakes, without downshifting & engine-braking.
@@Tonyx.yt. Did you even bother downshifting to 1st gear? I understand automatics don't have much engine braking, but the comment "didn't apply much braking force" seems like a rather glib response. I'd like to see a test of 1st gear vs Drive and see the objective results of "(not) much braking force".
@@xxxYYZxxx no, i dont, at least on the road. I had short gears and min speed in 2nd is already very slow. Otherwise i might still in 1st gear because i was driving extremly slow on the snow so im already slow. But otherwise no, i dont bother downshifting to 1st
No real surprises but good to see what I thought would happen prove out in testing. It seems like the 2wd with snow tires is just better on cornering and braking and is overall more stable...while the all seasons on awd is better at getting moving.
Yes, as I thought too. Another good review though, albeit slightly suspected outcome. Regarding Jonathan's non permanent awd comment in the video. Since owning and driving my GR4 Yaris in the uk on summers, I've had countless "contenders" during my journeys, lol... Both dry and wet, quite a few MK 7 R's have, suddenly, been up my a.se and all have remained close, but, perhaps less so in corners and gained on straights 😉. Probably mainly modified too though, plus it's road driving! What I'm saying is the haldex set up, and likely similar systems, are certainly competent with wet traction etc and improving every few years, predominantly via software updates. A fwd similar car would certainly have been trailing when slippery. Without swapping cars each time it happens to actually compare, and having previously test driven numerous VAG haldex, including s3/ tts/ttrs/s1/golfR 7.5, plus also a focus RS MK3, I believe they're all very good, but the GR4's set up being permanent and variable, is likely better still. A back to back would be needed but didn't feel the need b4 buying the Yaris, as anything else new is significantly heavier! Definitely not wishing or needing to currently🙂
I've driven FWD in the snow with all seasons and its okay. Not my first choice but this took place in a desert where it rarely snows. Today I live in an area where it snows on and off 6 months out of the year. So my daily driver is a Subaru WRX w/studded tires for the winter. I originally bought the WRX for other reasons but it quickly became my go to winter car! The main reason was the manual transmission. We ran outbacks when we first moved here and it didn't take me long driving around on snow and ice to develop a dislike for the modern computer controlled CVT transmission. There was several times I was left stuff in not much snow simply because the POS trans would cut power to the wheels once it started slipping....even with traction control off!! This isn't an issue with my 6spd WRX. I can power my way out of snow without issue! As for tires, I've commented before on another video about studded tires...I spend some time in the mountains dealing with icy switchbacks. I ran those same roads with michelin x ice tires for yrs and did okay on the ice but they didn't have the lugs I wanted for snow. So i found a really good non studded snow tire and had them studded. I'm no expert but I love my creation! This car is a breast in the snow!
I’d love to see both cars on a marginal surface. Almost undrivable icy pack on a slope. I would think eventually full winter tread patten/compound would win? After all, 4x no traction = 0 What do you think?
@@zepter00 What about when it’s slippery enough that all season tyres can no longer get ANY traction? Winter tyres will still have a degree of functionality remaining. That’s what I mean by marginal.
@@DontPanicDear you will not find souch conditions in nature at all. Even dirt brought on tires and natural made ice give you some traction. Zero traction when tires touch the ground is possible only on rollers . Check channel 4x4 test on rollers. You will see which cars have the best traction and the best capable 4x4 and AWD systems. Guy is great and know almost everything about technology of AWD and 4x4.
@@zepter00 In that case I can re-phrase for you. Insufficient traction for a 4x4 vehicle on all season tyres to move AT ALL. At that point, if there was a car next to it on winter tyres, it would most likely have sufficient traction to move still. Be it rwd, or fwd.
@@DontPanicDear i repeat ..there is no souch thing in the nature. In theoretic situation when car wheels have zero or close to zero traction. Result will be the same for winter tires . I tole you that souch condition is possible ONLY ON ROLLERs. Start watching channel 4x4 test on rollers and you will see. For now you have zero clue about thing you write. Read book „ Theory of land locomotion” writen by Mieczysław Bekker and you will understand.
I suspect in more slippery conditions, the advantage would go to the FWD car. Packed snow is one thing, but in a place with high wind and little shelter for the road, -40° temps making black ice, AWD and all season just isn't going to hook up.
Allo, this comment is not particularly relevant to this exact video but thought I would mention it anyway, I watched one of your videos ages ago and that video alone prompted me to purchase a full set of Michelin CrossClimate tyres on my little winter hack car. Sunday just gone we had a heavy spell of snow and I would have got myself in to a proper mess had it not been for the tyres. So, thanks! I got home safe and well and your review was part of that.
I love your videos, though I am very disappointed with the performance of the michelin crossclimate that I've in my jeep renegade 4x4. It should be at least decent in the snow, but I got stuck going up a hill with just 10 cm of snow. Eventually I managed to get off, but I was in the middle of the road for 5 minutes
When I had my Jeep, it never had winter, all season or all weather tires on it. It had a set of tires that were designed 50% on road and 50% off road. Which meant they had more tread on them than any winter or all weather tire. That combined with the part time 4X4 drive train, it could accelerate quicker, had better handling and if I wasn't driving crazy, it stopped just fine. Even after freezing rain, the part time 4X4 system allowed it to get moving and (again, with enough time to do it!) stop easily. Now I drive a Chrysler 300, rear wheel drive and it has the all weather tires. They've done splendidly in rain, snow and dry conditions. Just to put all of that in context, I live in London, Ontario, Canada which has us located between Lake Huron, Lake Michigan and Lake Erie. We can get some crazy weather conditions here thanks to the Great Lakes.
One thing I would be interested in is FWD vs RWD vs AWD on winters. Not too sure how you could get the cars to be virtually identical but it'd be interesting to see just how big of a difference they are, I'd be most interested in the FWD vs RWD as the AWD would most likely be the fastest in all traction based tests
You would have to get cars that are close in performance, but cant get identical. I would also like to see RR in addition to FR to see if the engine over the back axle gives it more of a FF performance or not when accelerating (obviously breaking is different)
Probably a bit too much of a faff, but could get a 4x4 car with a centre locking differential and then detach the front & rear drive shafts one at a time to test rwd vs fwd?
Thinking about it, a center transfer case could do that if the system is built correctly. You would have to ensure that it is truly locked to provide 50/50 distribution though or find a way to lock the output for the driveshaft otherwise you would just end up spinning the disconnected shaft hub. Lots of off road and crawling gear would allow for this, so maybe start there.
A lot of the lighter pickup trucks (1/2 ton, I don't know about mini-trucks) have the ability to run 2wd (rwd), 4wd Auto (AWD) and 4wd, but not FWD. The part time 4wd system on most of them is only really 3wd since they have open front diffs, but it would give a good indication of the differences between the systems. Up until about a month ago I had a Ram 2500 with front and rear locking diffs and a 2 speed transfer case on 37x1350x18 M/Ts. With the transfer case in 4wd and both lockers engaged I could get moving in at least 18" of wet snow and the truck would go exactly where you pointed it as long as you are smooth with control inputs. What it didn't like to do was stop, probably given the 8,000 lb weight empty. With everything disengaged (2wd, nothing locked so effectively 1wd) I could get stuck on an expansion joint in the rain.
Great short video and a great Question answered, also like to see..... the top all seasons go against each other in the same (4 and 2 wheel drive). Just like a winder shoot out... on dry/wet/snow... thx
I find it unlikely (no matter what your test results) that places like Quebec will no longer mandate winter tires for winter driving. The ability to slow down and turn is as important as getting going, I guess?
BTW in my country, Austria/Europe, winter tires are mandatory from November to mid April. All-weather tires are legal during this time, but nearly nobody uses them. When the first snow falls you know why.
Thanks for the great video! I don't think that your constant circle test is a good real world representation of cornering grip. Where corning grip matters in real world is emergency maneuvers, something like a quick lane change or obstacle avoidance would be much more representative. It would also make it more obvious why you felt lacking with the all seasons braking/corner entry feeling while on the track. - while you had a quick snippet of the braking test, that's something that's really important in winter driving and ideally should have had some data about it (100 ft vs 150ft etc) because while you didn't feel like it was a lot, a car length or two matters when braking distances are already extended.
Great video and good job all around, I'd like to see some braking and avoiding an obstacle test, which IMO represents the safety part, which shouldn't be neglected as the majority of drivers prefer safety over entertainment in such road conditions.
And the most important part is braking and having extra grip in unexpected situations. Which is why, in these conditions an all season tire cant compare. And this test wasn't even done with a nordic winter tire. The difference might be small on paper, but on the road, it might make all the difference.
having to stop in a uphill situation is also very important. here you might have to give up with a FWD car even with winter tyres. But if you choose to pay extra for an AWD car it makes IMHO absolut no sense not to buy a winter tyre
Agreed, the need for accelleration is seldom unexptected, but braking and avoiding something by steering input are sometimes. And that's where accidents can be prevented with extra grip.
It will be very interesting to see how would the all-season tyres perform after being used for a summer or two. Will there be significant degradation of their winter capabilities afterwards?
This answers a major question for me, especially relevant to vans. The higher floor required for 4wd is undesirable because overall vehicle height & CG might become excessive, but it appears unavoidable for more capable handling in rough or snowy terrain. Thanks for the answer!
I admit, I'm quite concerned about the implications and message this video sends to its viewers that are not aware of the details, and it's going to end with a lot of crashes I think. The reason being that it is validating a large portion of the population to refuse Winter tires and stick with their 3 season tires. The test itself is in North American terms All Weather tires versus Winters. However, the majority of people are going to skip over that fact, and misrepresent your video as ALL AWD with ANY All-season (NA definition = 3 season) tires will match that of Winters. On top of that, you yourself are an extremely capable driver that knows how to run the line between holding grip, and losing it in a controlled manner. The average driver on the road will not be able to do that to the same degree you do. Thus, YOU can make All Seasons work in cases like the bad braking and waiting for grip to come back to your front end. The average joe is going to slam their brakes, yank their wheel, and slip hopefully with understeer, or they'll yank it enough and induce oversteer from the 4WD system kicking in and wrap themselves around a light post. I implore you to revisit this in more detailed and a much less rushed format with consideration for the implications of what the average joe should consider from a safety point of view.
Totally agree! One other person commented "4WD is King!". Nobody (who values their life and others) drives like that in the real world. This is a dangerous video.
The main issue with the all season tyres is after one year if usage. I bought my rav4 4x4 with brand new all season Dunlop. Initally They were very good on snow and ice but after abt 8-10k km they felt horrible and i had to buy proper winter tyres. Same happaned on hot summer days. With 4-5 mm left to the wear mark I bought proper summer tyres. I would not recommend all season tyres for countries with cold winter and hot summer
Your problem was you had Dunlop, lol. The A/S Dunlop runflats that came on my AWD were horrible in the snow. Couldn't even make it up my inclined driveway without a running start. When I switched them out for Conti DWS 06 Plus, I made it up my driveway just fine, even from a stop. The good thing about DWS, is you can see when the "S" wears off, so you know when your snow traction is done.
Merry Christmas! Go review your tyres peeps - www.TyreReviews.com THANK YOU!
(also instagram.com/tyre_reviews/ )
Will review my Wintrac Pro again after the vacation. Fourth, and final, winter and 2000km through Sweden and Denmark in December.
Hopefully I get some Swedish snow up in Stockholm. Will also be interesting to see, what the Oresund Bridge will be like.
Should I try to take some video footage of it for you?
That was a brilliant video and a great watch. Its really nice to see someone who will say it straight because so many tyre "tests" are just set up to make the winter look great for the sponsors.
This is real, excellent information which makes an informed decision possible.
Its got me wondering though - the smaller Mini (hatch) doesn't come with 4x4 so is it better to get the smaller car on winters or move up to the larger, heavier car on all seasons but with 4x4?
still waiting for ur all terrain tire test！！
One tip what you need to do with a season tires.
And this a old trick we use with normal tires.
Lower the air in side the tire .
Winter tires are softer tires so in the winter the tire Stay more flex in the cold.
The 4 season tires are make to use in A years long.
So the tire Will be less flex in the winter .
This is what with normal tires do go hard in the winter and lose a lot of flex in the tires.
Lower de Summer.tires with lower air .
Like a 2 bar tire normal in the winter we set IT on 1.6 bar this way the flex of the tires come back.
Speciaal with the new cars what air presser in the tire is higher than normal do the miles per galon fual Will be les on paper.
You can test this with a VW Bluemotion en the non bleumotion car .
Both are the same only the transmissie and higher tire presser make the different on the fual .
Set the VW non bleumotion car in the same airpress in the tire and drive IT and almost the same miles on a gallon of fual.
This is a cheat of the cars make IT on paper Just a little bether to sell the bleumotion car to you.
Could you test a runflat tire against a non runflat tire same size and brand. Because BMW says runflat is the must go to.
This confirms what we observe here in the snowy mountains: AWD/4WD lets you accelerate harder and go faster, but the winter tires allow you (without power drifting) to brake and turn easier. Many people feel confident in the snow with AS and AWD because they can accelerate hard, but then braking and cornering fails them, and they end up sliding off. As my father used to say, “without good tires, 4WD just means you have four wheels spinning in a ditch”.
I live in snow country and see the evidence of this all the time...people off the road because they got going, but couldn't stop or turn.
My dad used to say that the biggest difference between 4wd and fwd is that 4wd will allow you to get farther into the back country before you get stuck, so it costs more for the tow!
Excellent point, why I still run winter tires on my wrx. Awd can get you going way faster in snow/slush and rain w/o you feeling loss of traction until you try to stop and then you plow on into a tree.
or... 4WD/AWD just gets you to the scene of your accident quicker.
It's still important to match your tires and driving style to the conditions.
And one thing you have to remember in everyday Winter driving the last thing you're gonna do is drive fast and loose...
A huge part of winter driving is breaking and stopping, especially when you are driving down hills. I wish you spent a bit more of the video detailing the difference in deceleration.
Otherwise, a very fun test.
A lot of people forget about this, yeah you can get going better with AWD, but you gotta stop and turn as well no matter the drivetrain. It's why I run winters on my Audi, best of it all with none of the drawbacks.
You mean braking is a huge part of driving in any conditions... But you probably consider it given on dry...
This. I liked the steep incline part of the test where he said "if you live at the top of the hill..." - because I do. The snow at the T-junction at the bottom of the hill gets well polished both by summer-tyre clowns spinning their hockey-puck tyres down there and being able to climb that and get home is great. BUT! Next day you go out, you have to descend that hill again and stop at the bottom or else you'll have a tree-trunk shaped modification to the front of your car. Summer tyres simply won't stop. All Season tyres usually struggle to stop unless you crawl down the hill - you'll get next to no deceleration from them. Only winter tyres let you confidently bring the car to a halt on the polished snow at the bottom without any fear of overshooting the junction either into the path of other vehicles or, like summer tyres, sliding straight over the junction and head-butting a tree.
@@jamieduff1981 yup, agree to that. The worst part is that rust belt states, i.e. Michigan uses salt to condition roads so little to none thinks about upgrading from all seasons, because... Most of the time they work. I chuckle, because AS is fine to use here, as long as you don't need to go to groceries or worse to emergency room during snow storm...
Yes. Safety is mostly about braking, stopping and avoidance, and rarely about acceleration.
My suggestion for this video is to have an exact braking test to determine stopping distance like Motorweek does and a slalom test around cones and emergency maneuver test driving around an object in the road (a cone), also some variations on the emergency manuver test like braking at the same time. That would be important IMO to a lot of drivers like those who think AWD makes the car safer or invincible. This video wouldn't be meant to say that winter tires make the car invincible but would say if they improve emergency handling and braking at all
That's sort of what the snow handling course does, other than maybe emergency braking and a moose test
this ^
and to add that a moose test on snow and another one on ice would be extremely informative for safety between the types of tires and propolsion systems (XD).
i get that the video was more oriented on the performance u get get out of the differencies, but i tend to make my choices first on max safety and then on performace/fun(when my pocket can afford the second part)
When it comes to braking, every car on the planet is the same, could have 1WD or 4WD, it doesn't matter. Here is 100% tyre works. The better and more specialized to the circumstances, the shorter the breaking distance. No point to compare different cars with different systems. Slalom test is completely different, it's 50% tyre mechanical grip and 50% the type of wheel traction and electronic stability systems.
@@pasmas3217 dedicated winter tires are always better at braking in freezing temperatures
@@HyadumHH Actually, not all cars are the same when it comes to braking. Some cars have electronic brake force distribution, some don't. Some have fixed ratio front to back... Some have mechanical ABS, some have electronic ABS. Some have 4 channel ABS, some have 3 channel ABS, etc. These things make braking performance vastly different.
I live in Canada and have driven a lot in winter conditions. This video leaves something very, very important out. All-season tires are good for the first season in winter, then become progressively worse in every succeeding winter. Winter tires are good even as they age, due to better rubber compounds. Reality.
Even winter tires get quite a bit worse as they age as the softness and amount of tread decreases is so much more important on snow than on summer tires on dry asphalt (where a slick tyre is best anyway unless it rains)
I ran all terrains for the last 6 years I lived in Canada (Ottawa). This was mostly because they only make dedicated winter tires in a limited range of sizes and once you get above 33s there isn't a lot out there. The A/Ts worked well.
My main issue with winter tires is that one is driving on wet or even dry tarmac in winter most of the time.
@@darkwingscooter9637 It's normally warm conditions that kill winter tires. The compound gets too soft and starts to wear more quickly. Anything over about 5C/40F is not all that good for them and they are much better when temps are at least 10C/18F colder than that.
@@rich7447 The other thing is whether that is outside temp or tire temp. Because even when it is very cold, tires will warm up quickly on dry tarmac.
It looks like about 30C above ambient after 1/2hour highway driving.
So, by that reasoning, unless it regularly gets to below -25C where you live...
AWD All Season: “More difficult to brake and turn.” This is all you need to know
Absolutely, but pottering along without drama on winter tyres wouldn't make a exciting video.
Having a car sideways might keep boy racers happy , so skip over the break test , and let them see you can still lose control on all season tyres.
@@robduncan599 , Yup, the snow tires Front Wheel Drive definitely won this comparison, braking is one of the most critical components of safe driving and avoiding the most common type of car accident, which is rear-ending another car. I bet the braking stop distance was significantly better also, possibly why the data wasn't shared even though the test was run.
@@EssPhour In the newest videos comparing winter tyres, and another one comparing 4season tyres, you have the data for the braking test.
Few meters differences. But by choosing the right tyre, you can end up with less difference with 4season, than taking certain winter tyres models.
It shows that nobody's best in everything, and depending on what you want and what you choose, you might be suprised :D
don't forget how much easier it is to get stuck in ice/snow with 2wd
@@schmoborama idk, closest my Prius with snow tires has been to getting stuck was driving through 8.5” of unplowed/untracked snow in CO. I did have to rock it back and forth a few times to get going but once I did it was fine. I figure getting stuck isn’t as easy as most people with AWD make it seem. (Coming from a former lifelong driver of, and faithful believer 4x4 full-size trucks. Really did a 180 with the Prius 😂)
Jonathan, you are, without doubt, the best tyre reviewer on the internet. You’re also a pretty nifty driver. Have you considered branching out into car reviews, with the same methodological quality?
Thank you! I have thought about car reviews, but there's a lot of people doing amazing jobs who are way more passionate about cars than me. I really just love tyres!
@@tyrereviews but none of them are as scientific as you are.
@@lolongo Thank you :D
btw if you like geeky testing, check out project farm if you've not already!
You might like the “Savage Geese” car review channel, if you don’t watch his reviews already. I wouldn’t call SG “scientific,” but he has a refreshingly sober and logical style of reviewing.
He does actually fairly in-depth during the “In The Shop” segments of his videos.
Great video.
In my view braking is the most important by miles, as it's the one that could stop an accident or injury or death.
this is true, but if one is driving in dry conditions 90% of the time, the tire that has solid dry braking is also worth considering. Don't forget wet & aquaplaning.
but the increased handling of awd could save you too
@@schmoborama the AWD didn't really have better handling, there were just more wheels spinning to push him forwards in the general direction he wanted to go.
@@arrebarre
That is handling. Better traction for accelerating and turning - less losing control during turns
@@schmoborama Going sideways with all four wheels spinning faster than the speed the car is traveling is hardly what I would call "better traction" but I guess you can believe what you want
I'd like to see more braking tests, such as a downhill stop on a slope similar to the hill you did the uphill start with. This is where I appreciate winters with FWD - you notice your lack of grip when starting, so you drive more carefully. Then, when you need to brake, you're pleasantly surprised. With AWD on all seasons, you have no idea how slippery the road is until you need to stop.
I'd also like to see the difference between AWD with vehicles with front-wheel primary with rear wheels kicking in, and AWD with rear wheels primary, and front wheels kicking in.
So AWD with snow is obviously the best choice
I have AWD with Michelin cross climate (pretty close to a snow tire (out performs some snow tires) .. still will go better but stop not quite as well .. AWD/4WD will always be better with the same tires than 2wd
Everything else is a balance.. where I live November-April is probably 60% dry/20% wet and 20% snow. A dedicated winter tire will have reduced performance most of the time over my all weather tires
@christopherryan7178 ummm... yeah... obviously, but the point of the video was to show that AWD isn't necessarily as important as the tires (which every dum dum always raves about needing AWD anywhere that you get more than 1" of snow... as though, FWD isn't a choice).
I've lived in the rust belt most of my life and driven FWD, AWD, and 4WD vehicles... and currently own ONLY FWD vehicles. Almost every year, I find myself PASSING turtles in trucks and SUVs on snowy roads because they're using garbage tires. (which is also probably why I typically see trucks and AWD vehicles stuck in the median)
Yes, a downhill BRAKING test would have been more telling next to the uphill start.
I agreed it's better to have good tires and FWD than AWD with junk all-season tires that are biased toward summer roads.
If you can't use simple logic to see a snowy covered road with ice is slippery then you don't deserve an AWD in the snow.
I think the takeaway from this video is that the best combination is AWD with snow tires. AWD/4WD tends to give inexperienced drivers (i.e. the VAST majority of drivers on the road) a false sense of security because they can accelerate from a stop with less wheel spin, only to realize that they can’t stop or change directions nearly as quickly as they thought. That’s why we end up seeing so many SUVs on their roof in a ditch every winter. Very few people in my area make the investment in their own safety and buy winter tires, even though we generally have many days worth of freezing conditions, snow and/or ice throughout the winter.
The other takeaway is that a proper all-season tire (not the US style “3 season” tire) would be a really good option for an area that only gets very occasional snow and no ice. That definitely did not used to be the case.
What are “snow tyres”?
I worry that many people will watch this video and just think that 4WD is faster and better in winter. :(
@@djordjezivkovic1245 No chains. Chains are for snow plows and semis.
Those tires are called "all weather " tires in the US. Even in heavy snow areas (where you are going to switch to winter tires) they make a good choice for a summer tire because you can always get an early or late snow that catches you off guard before or after you've installed the dedicated winter tires. That way you are covered with at least somewhat capable tires.
@@djordjezivkovic1245 You are covered!
The world needed this YT channel and you sir have delivered. Great work as always keep it up!
I'm really happy to have found this channel. I love how they go the extra-mile in order to bring the best review for tyres. The most underrated part of a car. Specially everyday tyres and not just super expensive sports ones. Thank you and keep the good work.
Thank goodness you are here to give us real world answers to questions that no tyre manufacturer is ever going to honestly report on!
Great video! As someone that lives in a "Nordic" climate I always go for the most extreme deep snow tires I can find, my logic is that even if I *can* accelerate (in an AWD car) I really would rather be able to brake and turn!
And there's no need to brake and turn if you don't have a car that can go forward either.
One of the best car channels out there.
I've been following you guys for years, you keep getting better!
Really interesting coming to this video as a Goodyear employee from the US. Neither of these tires are available here, and now I'm going to have to go look them up.
Update: Very interesting to see that neither of these tires are just rebranded versions of tires available stateside. Totally different tread patterns than the all weather and winter tires we carry.
Yep, differing market demands!
I discovered your channel fairly recently. And the more I watch, the more I discover that you have a video for all the questions that I have been having for the past few years in terms of car/tyre combos comparisons. You channel is a gem. Thank you!
Good tyres is important.
It would be really interesting to see all season awd vs snow awd.
yeah I was hoping at the end of the video there would be one more just for fun lap around the track with the winter tires on the AWD car.
As someone who is considering a mini that would be so helpful and fun to see!
That would have made a big difference especially on icy areas
We already know the answer so I don't see the point of doing that...
Exactly but nobody does
I’ve been waiting 2 years for this video. It’s finally here!
I think it would be interesting to see the difference in more extreme cold like -35°C or something, where the dedicated rubber mix should give the winter tires a bigger advantage. It all depends on where you live and what conditions your car is going to be in. Great video tho👍
Excellent video. You hit on the key game changer - it's fun to drive all-weather tires in the snow! I was positively giddy when you turned off traction control on the skid pad, hung out the rear and slowly pulled away...
Yeah, that looks like fun. I must get a Chelsea tractor and try that on the school run. Weeeeee
As I was told when I had my first winter in Minnesota, all wheel drive just gets you stuck twice as far from the main road 😂
2wd in, 4wd out. That's how it worked in Canada. Now I'm in MD and the approach is "more throttle". People here get stuck without any identifiable reason.
Best work, again. Must interesting but for me was the lack of time difference in the lap and what you said about the front end.
As others in the comments have mentioned a further video on braking and steering situations would be really good to see as that's probably where most come unstuck when the snow falls.
Just had Cross Climate SUVs fitted and the grip and confidence through some snow and slush over the weekend was priceless, especially with a family now.
Loved this (obviously) 😉 Looks like All season tyres are getting very good....
All season tires getting better in the snow and worse in the dry. Anyone living in a harsh climate needs winter tires.
All season tires are better know as NO season tires. Americans especially are loath to spend money maintaining their vehicles or spend money where the rubber meets the road. Where I live in north USA, people driving around in their huge SUV’s, SUV stands for stupid useless vehicle, or in the few proper cars almost never install winter tires. They prefer to have false confidence until they find out they cannot stop or turn better with AWD. Then they crash and STILL won’t get the proper tires. I see this every day in my work.
@@GilturnerknocksoutphonyFloyd You are referring to a small subset of American drivers. Generally, Americans maintain their vehicles as best they can and purchase tires as needed. There are those drivers that put a little too much faith in AWD/4WD and make some foolish decisions. However, not ALL SUV drivers are irresponsible. This video test demonstrates that AWD with all-season tires is just as competent as FWD with winter tires. Stopping distances will be the biggest factor, with the advantage going to the winter tires. However, most drivers will be able to get by in a moderate snow storm with all-season tires and some patience.
All weather, not all season tires. They're a softer compound than all season. They're also winter rated, unlike all seasons.
@@RysterARCEE on average, people in Europe take better care of their cars. That might be as a result of stricter rules - countries with harsh winters require by law to have winter tires installed (same as Canada), plus the actual tech review process also involves actual safety rules - as far as I know, some states in the US don't even require emission testing, because freedom!
love your videos and the usefulness of information. your 8 minutes videos are better than 90% of what there is on the internet.
Those results were not what I was expecting. The FWD car did better than I thought against the AWD. It really shows how much of a difference full blown snow tires can make over all season tires. Your so lucky to have access to all those fantastic testing tracks. It is probably because of your excellent testing methodology and unbiased reviews. Great video.
No its not
The test is not correct .
A front wheel car easy turn IT , IT drive only the front wheel and not more.
Means you steer and the car fallow that way.
The back of the car Just follow the front.
The 4x4 all wheel drive Will allways push and pull .
The all wheel drive have only 3% slip on the front and real wheel drive.
Means if 1 weel lose traction the back Will jump in .
Than other thing is that a 4x4 can not make the same turn .
IT can not , the wheel it self can not make the same max out of the wheellturn like the 2weel drive.
IT can not for one reason .
If IT go to scharp the backwheel Will puss IT like a rwd and you lose controle in the corners .
So you can never show this way what wheel tire u need for your car.
Only is same car and change the tires .
So 2 wheel drive with winter OR 4 season tires .
And with 4x4 same way.
No is Just show hummmmm nothing really .
Have been waiting for this video for 3 years, thanks!
Hope you enjoyed it!
Would have been nice if you had included some data for AWD with Winter Tires to compare how much of a difference they make on the same AWD car vs. All Seasons.
It would be far better, we all know that but yea it would be great to see!
People who live on cold climates ( e.g. Canada) , don't buy winter tires for performance around the track. It's mainly for safety. Acceleration and cornering speed is not of concern, as much as stopping ability. Most cars nowadays have AWD, which helps going forward.....but ALL cars have 2WD stopping ( as it is the two front tires that bear the weight when it comes to deceleration), and without good grip, you end up in the ditch or behind somebody's rear bumper. Emphasis on breaking trumps performance around the track, accident avoidance is key. Many people rely too heavily on the 4WD ability of their vehicle, which gives them a false sense of security because of the initial forward grip, which quickly disappears when they hit the brakes and start sliding (to their surprise). Food for thought.
Was just thinking about this question the other day, always good content 👌
I hope it answered your questions :)
Great video, and I super happy to see you using Minis! I am an enthusiastic countryman owner. But I have 1 small nitpick, or a "Well Actually" moment, if you will....in the video you state that it's not a "proper " AWD system. Yes it is made by BMW, but does not operate the same. It is only in 2WD at speeds over 75 mph. It is a variable AWD system that defaults to a 50/50 split iirc, and can put as much as 90% of the the power to the rear wheels in certain situations. As speed increases it progressively shifts power to the front wheels until 100% fwd is reached, around 75 mph.
I leave All Weather tires installed on my Volvos year round. You get the same summer performance as a good All Season tire with about 75% of the winter grip and braking performance of a full on Winter tire. Pretty much best of both worlds without having to swap tires.
All season tires are terrible turning on ice and snow.
@@Odat agreed all season tires are pretty crap in the winter. All weather tires strike a good balance IMO. I've been running Nokian WR G3s and when they need replacement I'll probably install WR G4s.
@@glsracer I thought all season and all weather are the same thing!. I need to look into this :-).
Ha! I do exactly the same, but with winter tires. What do I get with this? Well, winter tires are softer, as a result when I reach the grip limit on a dry tarmac tires to not snap into sliding, they warn you by gradual increasing of lateral movement and I always have enough time to counter that slide. Driving becomes WAY more predictable.
People have wondered why I put cross-climates on my AWD Jag XE. This video explains why, I’m glad I have spent slightly extra to have them. Another excellent comparison video. 👍
As usual, very interresting video. You are asking and answering the right questions. Thanks for that! It would have been interresting, if you had the time, to add 4wd with winter tires in the test.
Another one for the ever growing list :)
This video answers the question i have for years
I have the Goodyear All season tyre on two of our cars, amazing tyre. Would highly recommend 👍👍
Very well done video. Honestly surprised that the all seasons were so close in ice traction compared to the winter tires.
Again. Exactly the kind of video I was looking for
I'm thinking about getting a VW arteon and have been playing with the thought of getting a all-wheel drive model with all seasons as winter tires(maybe even full year round)
Weather in Austria in my local region isn't getting too cold or snowy, so all seasons would make more sense in most conditions
I agree with your logic :)
if you dont really get much snow at all screw winter tires. living in upstate new york, we get around 3feet /1 meter of snow every winter on top of all the ice, slush ect ect. in that scenario it was like night and day.
I had an impreza wagon with all seasons for 5 years in the mountains. Currently mazda 3 turbo with all seasons. No issues driving through snow & ice. Previously a front drive camry. Biggest issue with it was steep grades & driveway.
@@thebarkingmouse all seasons are great, granted the all seasons i had on my 2019 rav4 adventure were garbage. the snow tires made me go wow. in snow and ice, 30-40mph isnt bad at all if there is a foot- foot and a half on the road. i had all seasons on my silverado 1500 and that was fine mostly because there wasnt a ditch i could hit and get stuck in lmao.
Get crossclimate 2s and call it a day
Getting Good Year Winter Command tires after watching this video. Always awesome content, thank you.
Great review as always. Personally, since I can start moving, even slower, I would take better braking and handling over acceleration, in such circumstances. Cause it's not only me on the road, the one moving on opposite direction might veer onto me, or the one in front of me might have a sudden obstacle in front of them
I've loved these videos! Pretty much confirming what I've learned! It would be cool to see AWD with all seasons vs AWD with snow tires. I think people forget the best of both worlds is an option!!
Its been done on UA-cam
Here in Canada the ice is more treacherous than the snow. I'd love to see how they'd compare in that environment.
proper winter tires still had an upper edge against all season for the same obvious reasons
Completely agree. This review is meaningless to most people living in colder climates.
Yes, snow is easy to drive on compared to ice, whereon you need good winter tires, preferably with studs.
@@cburakbwell no not really. Snow is just packed ice crystals.
I'd imagine ice in Canada is literally just a plague😂
Sensationalist! Thank you for that tremendously interesting video...
....well, that applies to all your videos!!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
The 4 wheel drive might not be such a good choice in winter with the all-season-tyres in real life (i.e. drivers who can't drift and only have one lane width).
By the way, up hill means on the other side you've to drive downhill ...
Reminder to Americans: the all season tire here is three peak mountain snowflake rated. It's not what is called all season in America, which typically aren't snow rated.
I will say something no one ever said: your reviews are hands down the best ones on the internet. What? I'm not the first to say it? Doesn't matter, still true 😄
thank you :)
Thank you I know it's been some time but this was one of my comments I think about a year ago thank you for taking the time to do this test because it is a good test to see how capable a tire really can be
I've had hankook all sessions fitted to our vw tiguan 4motion about a year ago and there brilliant all year round tyres, but really came into there own last week in the snow, possibly my favourite tyre tests are the winter one keep up the good work, 👍
Glad you like them
what year Tiguan? we have a 21 4 motion and it has the 19s, should i get some winters?
@@random13627 it really depends on the climate where you live, here in the UK it's mainly wet and cold through winter so an all season tyre works well with the 4 motion all year round,
How ever if it was just front or rear wheel drive then I'd go full winters 👍
The video we have all been waiting for!!! Answering the real questions now!
An interesting test for the hill test is driving the FWD backwards, so that more weight is transferred to the "front" tires, since they're downhill.
The fact that a two wheel drive with winter tires can match and even better an all wheel drive with all seasons proves how much of an advantage they give drivers. Winter tires are the only rational choice in winter.
You should have compared breaking distances as stopping in the winter is much more important IMHO than how fast you can accelerate. Also the test were all on snow but what about on ice ? Maybe a follow up video to cover these items.
Weird that they hid the brake test
Finally the video I’ve been asking for!! Much love
Nice comparison, but I really want to see a normal all season vs winter. These all seasons are actually all weathers, which are winter rated and legal to drive in places that mandate winter tires.
Great video, my Mini has new all season tyres now fitted....and my van has new snow tyres...bring on the white stuff....but must admit i've been an advocate of winter tyres for years, most haven't been involved in the kind of accident i was in, even on cold wet tarmac these tyres buy you a fair stopping distance regular rubber can't match !
Great test, Hope to see it done with nordic winter tires aswell and the braking data presented "on screen"
Thanks for a great video :)
I didn't feel the video was rushed. Short and sweet. I've never used snow tires but always loved and felt confident with my AWD and 4wd. Never had any issues. Now i habe a fwd suv with no snow tires and i can't even get out of the driveway haha
The thing is that after 1 summer I doubt the all season tyre will have the same grip and performance as when its brand new, so i think that is also an important topic when it comes to all season tyres and will be a good test to see the difference between.
Tyre Reviews and Jonathan are THE REAL MVP's!
Great comparison, however I wonder what the results would be after having the all seasons on the car after a year or two. Most people only use their winter tires for 3-4 months of the year while folks who only drive with all seasons have them on year round. How much would wear affect the results?
Great point well made, the winter properties of tyres drop off quickly after 3-4mm
My winter tires are on from the middle of October to the second week of May. Two years ago we had our last snow of the year on May 17. I was glad the snows were still on, because it was a solid 20 cm of snow.
Speaking of which, do people who run only summers or AS all year do tire rotations? if so, is it just like yearly?
@@michaeltutty1540 Fellow Albertan?
My first car which was a 06 taurus had michelin premier A/S tires, and once they got to less than half tread they really struggled to accelerate in anything other than a dusting of snow, so yes their performance drops off quickly. Winter tires hold their performance until they get low on tread.
Lots of people in my snow-covered region buy 4wd cars, which may help them pull out of a driveway or onto the highway, but does nothing to help with braking, and maybe marginally helps with cornering. I drive a FWD with winter tires and haven't been stuck in the snow for over 20 years (when I had a rwd car with all seasons)
Every region sadly!
My priorities in winter are braking and turning, and I’m not surprised to see the winter tires doing better here.
4wd works better for "engine braking", namely because it spreads the engine braking over 4 tires instead of 2. It's one of the main advantages of 4wd. This test appears to use normal brakes, without downshifting & engine-braking.
@@xxxYYZxxx engine braking didnt apply much braking force and fwd is more than capable
@@Tonyx.yt. Did you even bother downshifting to 1st gear? I understand automatics don't have much engine braking, but the comment "didn't apply much braking force" seems like a rather glib response. I'd like to see a test of 1st gear vs Drive and see the objective results of "(not) much braking force".
@@xxxYYZxxx no, i dont, at least on the road. I had short gears and min speed in 2nd is already very slow. Otherwise i might still in 1st gear because i was driving extremly slow on the snow so im already slow. But otherwise no, i dont bother downshifting to 1st
My goto channel for tyre information. Quality as usual.
No real surprises but good to see what I thought would happen prove out in testing. It seems like the 2wd with snow tires is just better on cornering and braking and is overall more stable...while the all seasons on awd is better at getting moving.
Yes, as I thought too.
Another good review though, albeit slightly suspected outcome.
Regarding Jonathan's non permanent awd comment in the video.
Since owning and driving my GR4 Yaris in the uk on summers, I've had countless "contenders" during my journeys, lol...
Both dry and wet, quite a few MK 7 R's have, suddenly, been up my a.se and all have remained close, but, perhaps less so in corners and gained on straights 😉.
Probably mainly modified too though, plus it's road driving!
What I'm saying is the haldex set up, and likely similar systems, are certainly competent with wet traction etc and improving every few years, predominantly via software updates. A fwd similar car would certainly have been trailing when slippery.
Without swapping cars each time it happens to actually compare, and having previously test driven numerous VAG haldex, including s3/ tts/ttrs/s1/golfR 7.5, plus also a focus RS MK3, I believe they're all very good, but the GR4's set up being permanent and variable, is likely better still.
A back to back would be needed but didn't feel the need b4 buying the Yaris, as anything else new is significantly heavier! Definitely not wishing or needing to currently🙂
I've driven FWD in the snow with all seasons and its okay. Not my first choice but this took place in a desert where it rarely snows. Today I live in an area where it snows on and off 6 months out of the year. So my daily driver is a Subaru WRX w/studded tires for the winter. I originally bought the WRX for other reasons but it quickly became my go to winter car! The main reason was the manual transmission. We ran outbacks when we first moved here and it didn't take me long driving around on snow and ice to develop a dislike for the modern computer controlled CVT transmission. There was several times I was left stuff in not much snow simply because the POS trans would cut power to the wheels once it started slipping....even with traction control off!! This isn't an issue with my 6spd WRX. I can power my way out of snow without issue! As for tires, I've commented before on another video about studded tires...I spend some time in the mountains dealing with icy switchbacks. I ran those same roads with michelin x ice tires for yrs and did okay on the ice but they didn't have the lugs I wanted for snow. So i found a really good non studded snow tire and had them studded. I'm no expert but I love my creation! This car is a breast in the snow!
I'd like to see how the AWD would perform with the winter tyres on that lap
Great video. Great review of the modern tire tech too.
I’d love to see both cars on a marginal surface. Almost undrivable icy pack on a slope.
I would think eventually full winter tread patten/compound would win?
After all, 4x no traction = 0
What do you think?
4 wheel drive would desotroy in this scenario FWD or RWD without problems
@@zepter00
What about when it’s slippery enough that all season tyres can no longer get ANY traction?
Winter tyres will still have a degree of functionality remaining.
That’s what I mean by marginal.
@@DontPanicDear you will not find souch conditions in nature at all. Even dirt brought on tires and natural made ice give you some traction. Zero traction when tires touch the ground is possible only on rollers . Check channel 4x4 test on rollers. You will see which cars have the best traction and the best capable 4x4 and AWD systems. Guy is great and know almost everything about technology of AWD and 4x4.
@@zepter00
In that case I can re-phrase for you.
Insufficient traction for a 4x4 vehicle on all season tyres to move AT ALL.
At that point, if there was a car next to it on winter tyres, it would most likely have sufficient traction to move still.
Be it rwd, or fwd.
@@DontPanicDear i repeat ..there is no souch thing in the nature. In theoretic situation when car wheels have zero or close to zero traction. Result will be the same for winter tires . I tole you that souch condition is possible ONLY ON ROLLERs. Start watching channel 4x4 test on rollers and you will see. For now you have zero clue about thing you write. Read book „ Theory of land locomotion” writen by Mieczysław Bekker and you will understand.
Wow way to go Jonathan! You’re the best!
Great review, as always :)
I’m wondering what would be the difference, when both tyres will have 4 or 5 mm of tread.
Mans a legend on AWD, FWD, summer, all season, winters. 👍
Please do 'Premium Winter tyres on RWD vs Budget Winter Tyres on FWD'. Please, there is no such content on the internet. DANKE 😃
Thats what i was telling my father in law. It doesnt matter if you have a Dacia awd or a Volvo awd, only the tires are touching the ground.
I suspect in more slippery conditions, the advantage would go to the FWD car.
Packed snow is one thing, but in a place with high wind and little shelter for the road, -40° temps making black ice, AWD and all season just isn't going to hook up.
It would still get up and go faster then the fwd turning and braking would suck though
Allo, this comment is not particularly relevant to this exact video but thought I would mention it anyway, I watched one of your videos ages ago and that video alone prompted me to purchase a full set of Michelin CrossClimate tyres on my little winter hack car. Sunday just gone we had a heavy spell of snow and I would have got myself in to a proper mess had it not been for the tyres. So, thanks! I got home safe and well and your review was part of that.
Very interesting as usual! Can you please do this with RWD??
this is exactly what i was waiting for ❤️
I love your videos, though I am very disappointed with the performance of the michelin crossclimate that I've in my jeep renegade 4x4. It should be at least decent in the snow, but I got stuck going up a hill with just 10 cm of snow. Eventually I managed to get off, but I was in the middle of the road for 5 minutes
When I had my Jeep, it never had winter, all season or all weather tires on it. It had a set of tires that were designed 50% on road and 50% off road. Which meant they had more tread on them than any winter or all weather tire. That combined with the part time 4X4 drive train, it could accelerate quicker, had better handling and if I wasn't driving crazy, it stopped just fine. Even after freezing rain, the part time 4X4 system allowed it to get moving and (again, with enough time to do it!) stop easily. Now I drive a Chrysler 300, rear wheel drive and it has the all weather tires. They've done splendidly in rain, snow and dry conditions. Just to put all of that in context, I live in London, Ontario, Canada which has us located between Lake Huron, Lake Michigan and Lake Erie. We can get some crazy weather conditions here thanks to the Great Lakes.
One thing I would be interested in is FWD vs RWD vs AWD on winters. Not too sure how you could get the cars to be virtually identical but it'd be interesting to see just how big of a difference they are, I'd be most interested in the FWD vs RWD as the AWD would most likely be the fastest in all traction based tests
You would have to get cars that are close in performance, but cant get identical. I would also like to see RR in addition to FR to see if the engine over the back axle gives it more of a FF performance or not when accelerating (obviously breaking is different)
Probably a bit too much of a faff, but could get a 4x4 car with a centre locking differential and then detach the front & rear drive shafts one at a time to test rwd vs fwd?
Thinking about it, a center transfer case could do that if the system is built correctly. You would have to ensure that it is truly locked to provide 50/50 distribution though or find a way to lock the output for the driveshaft otherwise you would just end up spinning the disconnected shaft hub. Lots of off road and crawling gear would allow for this, so maybe start there.
A lot of the lighter pickup trucks (1/2 ton, I don't know about mini-trucks) have the ability to run 2wd (rwd), 4wd Auto (AWD) and 4wd, but not FWD. The part time 4wd system on most of them is only really 3wd since they have open front diffs, but it would give a good indication of the differences between the systems.
Up until about a month ago I had a Ram 2500 with front and rear locking diffs and a 2 speed transfer case on 37x1350x18 M/Ts. With the transfer case in 4wd and both lockers engaged I could get moving in at least 18" of wet snow and the truck would go exactly where you pointed it as long as you are smooth with control inputs. What it didn't like to do was stop, probably given the 8,000 lb weight empty. With everything disengaged (2wd, nothing locked so effectively 1wd) I could get stuck on an expansion joint in the rain.
Great short video and a great Question answered, also like to see..... the top all seasons go against each other in the same (4 and 2 wheel drive). Just like a winder shoot out... on dry/wet/snow... thx
Nice video as always !
Too bad not enough info was given on difference in braking between winter and all season tires.
Yes !!! This is the video I've waiting for you to do !!! Thank You !
I find it unlikely (no matter what your test results) that places like Quebec will no longer mandate winter tires for winter driving. The ability to slow down and turn is as important as getting going, I guess?
BTW in my country, Austria/Europe, winter tires are mandatory from November to mid April. All-weather tires are legal during this time, but nearly nobody uses them. When the first snow falls you know why.
Excellent review Jonathan !! Hope you can bring Continental summer tires together to see the difference !!
Thanks so much, Greetings from Barcelona !
Smashing it with the content JB 💥💥💥
Thanks for the great video! I don't think that your constant circle test is a good real world representation of cornering grip. Where corning grip matters in real world is emergency maneuvers, something like a quick lane change or obstacle avoidance would be much more representative. It would also make it more obvious why you felt lacking with the all seasons braking/corner entry feeling while on the track. - while you had a quick snippet of the braking test, that's something that's really important in winter driving and ideally should have had some data about it (100 ft vs 150ft etc) because while you didn't feel like it was a lot, a car length or two matters when braking distances are already extended.
I don't think anyone loves their job more than you do! 😃🔥👏
Great video and good job all around, I'd like to see some braking and avoiding an obstacle test, which IMO represents the safety part, which shouldn't be neglected as the majority of drivers prefer safety over entertainment in such road conditions.
Just put these vector4season tyres on my four wheel drive Passat. Looking forward to good things this winter
2:00 Is this all we are going to look at for braking, arguably the biggest reason to get snow tires over All Seasons?
We didn't get a lot of it on film sadly for this test
@@tyrereviews :(
Yet another entertaining tire review video of vehicles on a snowy race track with very little information relevant to actual road driving.
And the most important part is braking and having extra grip in unexpected situations.
Which is why, in these conditions an all season tire cant compare. And this test wasn't even done with a nordic winter tire.
The difference might be small on paper, but on the road, it might make all the difference.
having to stop in a uphill situation is also very important. here you might have to give up with a FWD car even with winter tyres. But if you choose to pay extra for an AWD car it makes IMHO absolut no sense not to buy a winter tyre
Agreed, the need for accelleration is seldom unexptected, but braking and avoiding something by steering input are sometimes. And that's where accidents can be prevented with extra grip.
Video is awesome, why apologize!
Always love your videos
thank you!
It will be very interesting to see how would the all-season tyres perform after being used for a summer or two. Will there be significant degradation of their winter capabilities afterwards?
This answers a major question for me, especially relevant to vans. The higher floor required for 4wd is undesirable because overall vehicle height & CG might become excessive, but it appears unavoidable for more capable handling in rough or snowy terrain. Thanks for the answer!
I admit, I'm quite concerned about the implications and message this video sends to its viewers that are not aware of the details, and it's going to end with a lot of crashes I think.
The reason being that it is validating a large portion of the population to refuse Winter tires and stick with their 3 season tires. The test itself is in North American terms All Weather tires versus Winters. However, the majority of people are going to skip over that fact, and misrepresent your video as ALL AWD with ANY All-season (NA definition = 3 season) tires will match that of Winters.
On top of that, you yourself are an extremely capable driver that knows how to run the line between holding grip, and losing it in a controlled manner. The average driver on the road will not be able to do that to the same degree you do. Thus, YOU can make All Seasons work in cases like the bad braking and waiting for grip to come back to your front end. The average joe is going to slam their brakes, yank their wheel, and slip hopefully with understeer, or they'll yank it enough and induce oversteer from the 4WD system kicking in and wrap themselves around a light post.
I implore you to revisit this in more detailed and a much less rushed format with consideration for the implications of what the average joe should consider from a safety point of view.
Totally agree! One other person commented "4WD is King!". Nobody (who values their life and others) drives like that in the real world. This is a dangerous video.
Yessss I’ve been waiting for this one
The main issue with the all season tyres is after one year if usage. I bought my rav4 4x4 with brand new all season Dunlop. Initally They were very good on snow and ice but after abt 8-10k km they felt horrible and i had to buy proper winter tyres. Same happaned on hot summer days. With 4-5 mm left to the wear mark I bought proper summer tyres. I would not recommend all season tyres for countries with cold winter and hot summer
All season or all weather? We need to differentiate.
@@alansach8437 all season and all weather have the same issue after the first year
Your problem was you had Dunlop, lol. The A/S Dunlop runflats that came on my AWD were horrible in the snow. Couldn't even make it up my inclined driveway without a running start. When I switched them out for Conti DWS 06 Plus, I made it up my driveway just fine, even from a stop. The good thing about DWS, is you can see when the "S" wears off, so you know when your snow traction is done.