My 2012 15” Unibody MacBook Pro works amazing! I upgraded to 16gb RAM 2TB SSD and it’s running the latest MacOS via Opencore Legacy Patcher! I found a Thunderbolt Display locally for $100 and I bought my laptop and upgrades for under $300. Killer setup!
@sergiopimentel9252 Maybe!? I mean in general you can buy a dell optiplex + SSD + a low profile card for like $300-350 for that purpose. I only play a few games on my MacBook since I don't bootcamp. For the King runs well enough! It is great for music production. I use Logic Pro X and it's fantastic with a lot of plugins. I would just price it out though. I knew I wanted gaming and MacOS so I put $300 into each rig (I ended up sending less because friends gave me SSDs and ram upgrades). You can find M1 MacBook Airs for $700 now that are way better at graphics and music production in a thinner, lighter, supported manner. Only get this if you understand it isn't a gaming rig (I used Stadia too so XBOX streaming or GEFORCE would work but limited by internet speeds) but is capable of playing modest games.
it goes eben muuuuch better: you buy a caddy hdd adapter, put it inside instead of the DVD drive, then you put a second ssd similar to the first one, and then Make a "raid 0" with the hdd program... Congrats, your SSD runs double so fast now, about 1000 mb/s... There ist a video around here about that. I loooooove my 2012 Mac...
I generally have no use for the Fruit ecosystem, but these 2012 Macbooks are perhaps the single best computers ever made. I don't do puzzles but I do fix computers for fun so I bought a mid-2012 13 inch macbook pro and was immediately impressed by the build quality. I immediately upgraded the hard drive to ssd (easy), max'd out the ram (could do it in my sleep) and then removed the optical drive and added a second ssd for data in its place (easy though be careful). The computer is amazing and fast - but what makes this truly impressive is that I bought a matching aluminum stand and hooked up the computer with lid closed to a 27 inch monitor - this is a budget ifruit and the screen resolution is even better than the standard laptop screen would appear. I liked this so much I bought another one and did the same and all in it cost maybe $600 for the two computers (I already had monitors to use for both). I replaced two aging windows systems with these and these work amazingly well. What I like about these computers compared to the asinine modern fruit stuff is you can work on these and upgrade them. Limitations on performance aside, you cannot beat these older macs for value and quality. It is a shame the Fruit company forgets how to build quality products.
I have a 2012 MacBook Pro. Upgraded the RAM and SSD. Great computer but it's just super slow when it comes to 4k video. It's a decent gaming machine. I play Civ 6 and GTA 5 on it all the time.
I used to do what you said on this video, keep it on sleep mode and never shutting it down, that was until upgraded the ram to 16gb and now, booting up the computer takes a whole lot less time than before. What used to take 5 to 10 mins of warm up now takes like.... 10 seconds
The 2012 13" MacBook Pro (i7) is one of the greats. I have 2 along with a 2009. I moved to a 2021 14" Macbook Pro. Night and day with an immeasurable quality of life improvement. Too much software is becoming unsupported and more processor intensive. The fans constantly spinning and components are aging and pushed harder. I still keep a 2012 updated and running and use it occasionally.
Substantial upgrade for sure! I do plan on eventually upgrading to at least an M1 for future proofing without breaking the bank. This 2012 has just surprisingly held up well over the years
I own three MBPs from the 2011-2012 era (one of which is on permanent loan). In all three cases I upgraded them to 16 GB of RAM, half-a-terabyte SATA SSD, and when I'm using one of them I install Linux. I've used both Linux Mint and Zorin OS on my old Macs and they really wake up a sing using a lighter weight OS.
I have the same MacBook as yours. I picked up a base model on eBay and did some upgrades (16GB RAM, 500GB SSD, new battery and thermal paste) and it's been a great computer. I run macOS Catalina and Windows 10 (on Boot Camp, something I can't do on the M1 Macs), and it's very snappy. The SSD makes all the difference in boot times.
That’s awesome! Happy to see you’re seeing a big difference in boot times! Good going on the thermal paste too since you already updated everything else
@@ardentlytech I got my MacBook mid 2012 back in 2012 lol. I did the ram, 1TB SSD, and new battery. Work better and hella faster boot and faster everything. QUESTION!: Why the thermal paste? I will check into it but I didn't do that cause didn't know about it
I have tree macbook pro! A 2012 13 inch (1tb ssd and 16gb of ram), a 2012 15 inch retina and a 2010 macbook pro 15 (500gb ssd and 8gb of ram)! Both 2012 work LIKE NEW! No joke they work amazing!!! The 2010, even upgraded feels horrible! Not usuable at all! It's crazy how the 2 years make a big difference
I have a i5 2012 13inch MBP that looks like it just came out of the box. I use it daily. There's not a scratch anywhere on it. The org battery I replaced in 2021. The upgrades i've done: 16Gb ram, two 2TB SSD hard drives, replace the mag port, installed Win11-Pro via Bootcamp and to top it off it's running Sonoma 14.3 via OpenCore Legacy Patcher. The only thing I can say "bad" about this MBP is the internal speakers always sucked and they did finally fail and I replaced them with new speakers that dont suck as bad, LOL. This system has to be the best model Apple ever produced. Im a I.T. guy and I take it on site mainly because it requires NO dongles for the ports I require "ethernet".
I own a 15" MacBook Pro Intel I7, 16 GB RAM, upgraded to 1TB SSD ($60) and new battery ($50) running Monterey (open core legacy patcher) - It is incredible. Everything works well. Loving it!
got the late 2012 mbp and I paid 80$ because of the battery just dying in less than 1 minute. Paid around 60$ for a replacement one from iFixit, upgraded the hdd to a 500gb crucial SATA SSD for 32$, paid 10$ on Aliexpress for a adapter that replaces the DVD drive with a SATA m.2 SSD and with MacOS this Macbook was garbage for some advanced stuff like writing 200 pages document, light programming or even editing a 1080p video. However with GNU/Linux (in my case Manjaro), this brick became way more responsible, I was able to get a better battery life than with MacOS (after installing that high quality 3rd party iFixit battery) and like a month ago my RAM failed and I was just able to "replace upgrade" it from 8gb to 16gb. On my newer MacBook Pro 2019 (not recommending it if you want to use Windows or GNU/Linux on it) I would have to do some hardcore soldering to replace the RAM and even if I would want to upgrade the SSD, I would have to replace the SSD chips and the shitty security chip at the same time. I don't regret selling that 2019 crap and downgrading it to the 2012 model. In fact, I don't even have to use some stupid USB C adapters XD
That’s incredible! Sorry for the hoops you had to jump through but it all worked out in the end! Those usb c adapters can get pretty annoying I feel your pain 😂
My mid 2012 MacBook Pro Intel i7 running Catalina (upgraded to 16Gb and 1Tb SSD) runs ON1 perfectly well for photography with no spinning umbrellas! Wouldn't want to use it for video editing - although it will run Ableton Live as a DAW for music (just not those massive complex sets!). Since it's still easily upgradeable this is the best of the older MBPs Apple have produced.
@@ardentlytech Yes - it went from taking minutes to load from shut down to under thirty seconds. To make it even more useable I recently added a 4k monitor using the displayport output and (yes, there is a slight reduction from 4k) but this allows easier editing of photos on the larger screen. I'd recommend a using a second display with most recent software.
@@ardentlytech starting your mac from ssd should take 10-15 secs. Your startup is slow cause u using hdd and most probably have a lot of stuff on and not defragment. Just swap to ssd huge difference
Bragging time: 2012 Mac Book 15" pro with SS2 2TO 870 evo / 16 GB memory / Monterey (piece of crap so far). 3rd battery... Office job mainly. I am still hesitating to buy a new MacBook Pro :))))
Very nice, honest video here! I would like to share some additional infos about this particular MacBook model, based on my personal experience with it: Two years ago I've put together for my gf a now fully upgraded Mid-2012 13" Unibody MacBook Pro with 2.9GHz dual core i7. I decided to go all the way in with it replacing the original HDD with a 500GB SSD, swapped the dead CD-Drive with a 500GB HDD for Time Machine backups, bumped the RAM from 8GB to 16GB, add a new battery and last of all I ordered a custom printed/built adapter from some amazing British guys (Intriguing Industries, if you wanna check out) that allowed me to sit in a 2015 15" Retina MacBook Pro's Wi-Fi 5/Bluetooth 4.2 combo card in it. Since the only component in this machine not officially supported by Apple in macOS 11 Big Sur is the original Wi-Fi 4/Bluetooth 4.0 combo card, with the upgraded card I've been able to install macOS Big Sur via Open Core Legacy Patcher, fully supported with fully enabled SIP, SecureBoot and FeatureUnlock! :D For casual web-browsing, watching movies on streaming platforms, Office-related work and general basic usage is still very capable and feels snappy. Battery life (even if new) is still pretty limited, the 1280x800 LCD panel has still got good colors and viewing angles, but lacks pixel density and is 10 steps behind even a 2013 Retina Macbook Pro. Fine, but absolutely non great. 16GB of RAM is probably overkill for basic tasks but allows macOS to "expand" as he wants without a single disk-swap, which is particularly good for improving SSD's life span. Realistically the 2.5GHz i5 and the 2.9GHz i7 perform quite the same as they're both dual-core Ivy Bridge (3rd gen) processors, with the i7 being clocked a little higher and nothing more. The minuscule heatsink and fan are no way near sufficient to dissipate all of the heat the processor outputs (especially the i7) now that it has to work much harder with newer software (regardless of fresh thermal paste), resulting in the bottom case getting very hot quite easily and quickly under normal use. All things considered, this is still an amazing machine, the last (and best) of a forgotten era of user-friendly self-repairable devices, with actually still a lot of life in it! MacOS 12 Monterey runs great on the machine, although SIP must be lowered and SecureBoot disabled due to Apple dropping support for Intel HD 4000 graphics (no big deal at all). Ventura is still in Beta and OCLP in Alpha regarding Ventura support, but there are preliminary indications that the Mid-2012 will be able to run Ventura, probably not perfectly but enough to making it usable for another year. Mid-2012 Unibody's days are obviously limited, but for now, don't call it dead yet :)
This version of the macbook pro is THE BEST ever made! I run one with 2 hard drives (on a bracket and adapter i've made myself, yes, you read that correctly, i designed and soldered my own adapter from optical drive port to 2;5 inch hdd), and my bracket accepts 7mm slimline hdds, i have 16gb in it, and an ssd offcourse. I have ventura on it, and it works amazingly well! And i bought it just a couple of days ago just to have a macbook pro around to do iphone stuff and to browse the web. The battery has still 96 percent with 275 cycles! Amazing lil' machine
I had my Late 2012 Macbook Pro replaced with SSD as soon as I bought it, and these days it's still a very good laptop to use for my daily works. If it's not because of the short battery and plus 2022 Macbook Air looks too good to me, I would stay with this babe for another couple years I guess.
I'm still using a mid 2012 retina pro for my music production. Only thinking now about an upgrade, not because it doesn't work or because it's slow, just because I think it's time.
These 2012 Unibody machines are bulletproof as long as you install an SSD and have at least 8GB Ram they will fly. I am running Ventura on mine with OCLP. Apps never lag on mine and boot time from shutdown is seconds only. I get 4 hours out of my original Apple battery. I Can’t believe anyone would still want to use an old optical spinning drive no wonder his machine is slow.
I've had mines since 2013 and see no need to get a new one until summer of 2023. I only upgrade PC units. I've lucked out with my Macbook Pro and this is year 10.
Coffee killed my 15 inch Mid 2012 MBP 4 years ago 😢, I was broken hearted . I’ve since had a 15 inch 2018 MBP but the dongle life wasn’t for me 😡~ I don’t care how much faster it is . Not having the cash to jump up to the newest MBP I started hunting around for a replacement for my all time favorite laptop and I just found it on Mercari for $320 🎉- Perfect screen with no chips or dead spots, 500 gb SSD in addition to the original 500 gb hard drive, i7 2.3 GHz, 8GB ram and Intel HD Graphics 4000 1536 MB. Nostalgia is my vibe and the properly lit keyboard and the brilliantly Illuminated apple logo has this girl thrilled 😅! Best Apple 🍎 laptop ever bar none so far 😊. Thanks for the affirmation!
Way to go!! So glad you’re able to score that awesome deal! As long as you have a MBP that fits your needs and preferences, doesn’t matter what year it came from. Happy you found the right one for you!
Great video! Too funny, I have a 2013 Macbook Pro and it's solid. I had to get a new one because it got too slow. Probably some things I could have done to speed it up. Thanks for the info!
What! No mention of the dvd drive or the sd card slot? These two peripherals alone makes this model relevant in 2022. With some additional modifications, the life of this Mac can be extended. Once usb-c become ubiquitous this model will be officially obsolete. IMO.
It’s funny - I tried to buy an even older MBP from a friend and they wouldn’t sell it BECAUSE it still has a DVD drive, which is why they’ve held on to it and won’t sell it. I offered to at least upgrade it but most/some folks just like what they like.
I watched this video to see if it warrants upgrading my mid 2012 to a newer macbook pro. Finding it difficult to justify $3000 for a new one! (AUD) I've upgraded mine running catalina, 1TB SSD & 16GB ram. Will admit it needs a new battery. Ram didnt seem to make a lot of difference but changing to SSD was amazing difference
interesting, I've been searching for 2012 for a while and found a great 2011 one that is still working great. Although you state you stayed with Catalina you are showing videos where you updated to Monterey.. Mine got High Sierra and with old computers, I don't use the net as it gets difficult and may update things that will stop your computer working. I use Photoshop and redesigned PS6 which works pretty good. I always get the max ram. My battery gets down pretty quickly and as I never liked laptops I tend to let it plugged into the wall. A great computer indeed and all the upgrades you are talking about are fine if you wish to do so. I prefer keeping the computer in its original state and using a recent one for bigger work. One day it will retire in its box in my collection :)
That’s awesome, you have a good system there and it sounds like it fits your needs perfect for the most part. I am using Catalina, I just downloaded a Monterey wallpaper because I liked the look lol but it’s operating on Catalina.
All the positive things you said about your 2012 MBP is how we felt for our 13" early 2010 MBP, 8GB, 256 HDD. With its age came issues, battery life diminished to about half an hour, it became painfully slow, cannot receive Mac OS updates, and because of its older OS numerous programs would not update and some would not load on to the MBP. As for slow image this, from a cold boot getting to the login screen takes over half an hour, then you log in getting to your home screen again slow. Once up and running depending on the software to open it was not too bad again slow opening many programs. This year we retired that MBP. So, after twenty-two years as an Apple everything Apple only household/office, we moved to Windows 11 and Samsung phones. After that migration we realized there is nothing we miss about Apple products, nothing. Using Windows 11 allowed us to begin using a couple of our other hardware devices whereas Apple had stopped supporting them. For the past twenty-two years Apple was a good run, however times have changed, we needed to change as well.
@@ardentlytech Hi, thank you for your polite reply. Yes, the Windows system better suits me than Apple. Switching from Apple to Windows, after a month or so all was good. Back in the day working in IT, I used and supported CP/M, MS DOS and IBM DOS, Windows 3.0, up through XP and Server 2000, Microsoft Office, and Lotus SmartSuite as well; fun times. As for Apple products they were mostly a positive experience. Now, again experiencing Windows, and Android, I have zero need to purchase an Apple product. Being as I own a bunch of Apple stock, I do wish Apple well.
The 2010 mbp is not THAT bad, even under todays standard. Your hhd is failing, therefore the slow response. Change into a SSD for $15 and you will have a night and day difference. Use open core or Dosdude patchers to get macOS 10.15-13.x will make it even better integrated with the Apple ecosystem. 😅
I found the same MacBook for 200€ with a magic mouse and i'm pretty sure i'm gonna buy it because I need a cheap laptop that still performs quite well and also because I love Apple's design language (both hardware and software) and I'll also be installing OpenCore Legacy Patcher to get it to Monterey EDIT: I ended up getting a 2014 15" for 315€ because my budget increased and patched it with Ventura
Honestly I’m not sure on the compatibility with the evo. I have a link in the description for one I recommend that should work fine with your MBP. That’s not to say that’s the only ssd that will work but thats the only one I’d generally recommend. Hope that helps!
Is anyone using this with Final Cut Pro and Audacity? I would be getting a 16GB RAM + 1TB SSD model. This seems like a great hobby machine for me, but I need it to be able to run at least those two software smoothly. (I don't mind running an older version of FCP if necessary.)
Nice work. Mine is 2011. Is there an adapter to make USB 2.0 have the functionality of USB 3, or am I stuck with the 2? And, hypothetically, if I install a VM to run Windows would that upgrade my computer's performance, or would there still be limitations based on all the basic out -of -the- box spec aspects of my host? Just as one example, I need to use OCLP to upgrade to at least Big Sur (10.15) in order to use Firefox. I'm hoping a VM will push me ahead, but not certain.
Hey bro, I have always used windows OS and for college work, we used to use cracked software. And even in old 8year old laptop with i5 processor latest win 10 would run smooth and support all apps, even the apps that's aren't on windows store. So my question is. What about macbook 1. Can u install latest OS? 2. Can you install pirated software?
Great question! Yes old MacBooks up to a certain point can install the latest software, 8 year old ones can run the newest software for example. Mine is a 10 year old MacBook so it stopped getting the newest software about 2 years ago. However you can do a workaround like I mentioned in the video to run the newest OS on this MacBook and older ones. It might not run that well on older MacBooks but you can definitely do it if you choose to!
@@ardentlytech wow. Really? That's amazing. So in. The end it comes to which software we use.. like engineering software, windows is a go... For editing etc.. MacBook... For normal office work. Any OS laptop will be fine.. right?
The reason why I want to get an old MacBook is cheaper I want to know is it worth it if I’m trying to start my UA-cam videos using iMovie on a 2010 or 2012 software ? Since I don’t wanna spend a lot of money on a new MacBook 2024😢
The only place I get software would be the Apple Store for my MacBook. There might be other programs or ways around that but I’m not privy to those other methods
I’m just starting to do music so I brought a fully loaded MacBook Pro 💻 Mid 2012 MacOS Catalina 10.5.7 2.9GHZ 500 Sata drive & I just brought the 1TB Samsung T7 SSD for Logic Pro X. Here’s my question since the MacBook 2012 has a headphone Jack will I be able to hook up the Pop 510 Lavalier mic 🎤 to the laptop using the Logitech C922X web camera? because the internal mic in the webcam sucks and I don’t want to buy a web cam if I can’t hear my self talk because I’m only using the Pop mic for zoom calls & even though I have the Rode pod mic & my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface I don’t want to use it until I actually start my UA-cam channel in January so for Christmas I’m going to treat my self to either the Sony ZV E-10 or the Sony 6400 & since I have nearly 12K followers on TikTok I can be more creative once I get the camera that I want.
Great question! Yes I’ve done this before. I’ve used a Logitech external webcam paired with an external mic that inputs via 3.5mm headphone jack. I used OBS, a software to record that content in. It asks what you want the video source to be and what you want the audio source to be so you can specify exactly what you want to use. Hope that helps and good luck!!
Thanks!!! ✊🏾I do have one more question which camera did you buy? I’m only asking since you have the same exact MacBook Pro because I was thinking about getting the Logitech C922X camera & put it on Top of my silver HP monitor.
Hi, I'm using a mid-2012 13" macbook pro running Catalina & was looking to upgrade my graphics card. Do you have recommendations for an internal card (my thunderbolt had stopped working)... if not, external GPUs that work on USB? Thanks!
The desired peripherals may cost more than a functioning 2012 mbp 13 or better models. If you want hands on experience, get a replacement motherboard for less than the whole machine. Otherwise, depending on your budget, get another used model for $50-100, or an updated model such as 2014-15 mbp 15 for about $200+.
Hello! I have the same machine just like u MBP 2012 runs Catalina 8 gb RAM, 750 GB HDD and i want to make him an upgrade. Do you think is worth it? The CPU in 50% proces have 70 - 80 degrees and in fully load 100. Is not ok right? I want to put him the 16 gb ram, 1 TB ssd, maybe to replace the battery and keyboard and put more New version of the mac os. What do you think? Thanks a lot!
That’s awesome! If I were in your shoes of wanting an upgrade, those are the exact things I would do. I have links to all those parts you would want in my description with some of the best prices i can find. It will feel like a new computer once you’re done!
Definitely! Would for sure recommend a higher processor model like the i5 or i7, but the main thing is not having too high of expectations or demands out of an older model like these. If you are using it just for a casual web browsing, emails, FaceTime, iMessage, even light photo editing, then that would be perfect. Anything more than that and I think you would be disappointed. Would definitely recommend an upgraded SSD and maxing out the ram as well if you plan on using it for awhile.
Just found a local add for both a 2011 imac & macbook pro for $150?!! Apparently it's a storage unit find and the guy doesn't know how to boot past recovery mode?!! Tempted, although the 2011 sketchy GPUs are highly suss IMO. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
10 minutes for turning it up bro? U need to upgrade to a ssd . Also the i7 is known for fucking up the motherboard thats why I got the I5 I produce music and I use this macbook maxed out
Have or anyone that you know are using the Sony ZV-E10 to edit photos on a MacBook Pro Mid-2012 MacOS Catalina 10.15.7? I had to ask that specific question for compatibility concerns because I have everything that I need except for the Camera & I'm leaning towards the Sony ZV-E10 & being that my setup is in my leaving room I'm just gonna get a decent lense that cost under $200 because all I want the camera for is to use for UA-cam & I'm very curious how a TikTok would look using that camera I will send you a pic of my small new beginner setup to your Instagram & speaking of camera's what camera did you use to make this video?
Personally no we haven’t used a ZV-E10 nor know anyone that has for compatibility comparison sorry. I would imagine it would but double check before buying/ordering. For this video I used a Nikon d5100 but Adrienne on the channel uses a Sony a6400 with a 16mm sigma lens. You can check our other videos on our channel from adrienne to see how you like that look for reference.
Ok thanks iv decided that I’m gonna go with the Avermedia PW315 Webcam because for my HP monitor because I had read a positive review on Amazon from a customer that is using it on the regular MacBook Pro 2012. If you go to your Instagram you will see my home set up.
Your link has a 2012 with 4gb of ram and a 128gb hdd for $230 lmfao. That might be the worst deal ive ever seen in my life. Please nobody buy that BS. You can get the same exact thing on ebay for $100 and it will usually have a 500gb hdd instead of 128. Why are you supporting scamming people?
The hardware is awesome, actually it is not to blame for any performance issues… Apple’s system is the real culprit. They are getting worse on every new iteration. Really poor work from the Devs.
My 2012 15” Unibody MacBook Pro works amazing! I upgraded to 16gb RAM 2TB SSD and it’s running the latest MacOS via Opencore Legacy Patcher! I found a Thunderbolt Display locally for $100 and I bought my laptop and upgrades for under $300. Killer setup!
why you need latest macos? 10.15 Catalina is still perfect lol
@sergiopimentel9252 Maybe!? I mean in general you can buy a dell optiplex + SSD + a low profile card for like $300-350 for that purpose. I only play a few games on my MacBook since I don't bootcamp. For the King runs well enough! It is great for music production. I use Logic Pro X and it's fantastic with a lot of plugins. I would just price it out though. I knew I wanted gaming and MacOS so I put $300 into each rig (I ended up sending less because friends gave me SSDs and ram upgrades). You can find M1 MacBook Airs for $700 now that are way better at graphics and music production in a thinner, lighter, supported manner. Only get this if you understand it isn't a gaming rig (I used Stadia too so XBOX streaming or GEFORCE would work but limited by internet speeds) but is capable of playing modest games.
it goes eben muuuuch better: you buy a caddy hdd adapter, put it inside instead of the DVD drive, then you put a second ssd similar to the first one, and then Make a "raid 0" with the hdd program... Congrats, your SSD runs double so fast now, about 1000 mb/s... There ist a video around here about that. I loooooove my 2012 Mac...
@sergiopimentel9252no way, the hd 4000 is ass
@@tylerpoe8628u can’t cause the igpu hd 4000 is ass
I generally have no use for the Fruit ecosystem, but these 2012 Macbooks are perhaps the single best computers ever made. I don't do puzzles but I do fix computers for fun so I bought a mid-2012 13 inch macbook pro and was immediately impressed by the build quality. I immediately upgraded the hard drive to ssd (easy), max'd out the ram (could do it in my sleep) and then removed the optical drive and added a second ssd for data in its place (easy though be careful). The computer is amazing and fast - but what makes this truly impressive is that I bought a matching aluminum stand and hooked up the computer with lid closed to a 27 inch monitor - this is a budget ifruit and the screen resolution is even better than the standard laptop screen would appear. I liked this so much I bought another one and did the same and all in it cost maybe $600 for the two computers (I already had monitors to use for both). I replaced two aging windows systems with these and these work amazingly well. What I like about these computers compared to the asinine modern fruit stuff is you can work on these and upgrade them. Limitations on performance aside, you cannot beat these older macs for value and quality. It is a shame the Fruit company forgets how to build quality products.
I have a 2012 MacBook Pro. Upgraded the RAM and SSD.
Great computer but it's just super slow when it comes to 4k video.
It's a decent gaming machine. I play Civ 6 and GTA 5 on it all the time.
Civ 6! That’s impressive!
@@ardentlytech The load screen takes forever but other than that works normal.
So u installed windows in order to play gta 5 ?
I used to do what you said on this video, keep it on sleep mode and never shutting it down, that was until upgraded the ram to 16gb and now, booting up the computer takes a whole lot less time than before. What used to take 5 to 10 mins of warm up now takes like.... 10 seconds
The SSD upgrade is the biggest upgrade. I also went to 16 GB of ram. It boots up in 20 seconds.
The 2012 13" MacBook Pro (i7) is one of the greats. I have 2 along with a 2009.
I moved to a 2021 14" Macbook Pro. Night and day with an immeasurable quality of life improvement. Too much software is becoming unsupported and more processor intensive. The fans constantly spinning and components are aging and pushed harder. I still keep a 2012 updated and running and use it occasionally.
Substantial upgrade for sure! I do plan on eventually upgrading to at least an M1 for future proofing without breaking the bank. This 2012 has just surprisingly held up well over the years
Holy Grail -mid 2012 15", 2.7 Ghz i7 ,16Gb RAM, Matte Screen ,Seagate Barracuda 2TB ssd- 85watt NuPower Battery upgrade. Still can"t think of a reason to upgrade in 2023.
Facts! Can’t justify upgrading yet when my current one still does everything I need
I own three MBPs from the 2011-2012 era (one of which is on permanent loan). In all three cases I upgraded them to 16 GB of RAM, half-a-terabyte SATA SSD, and when I'm using one of them I install Linux. I've used both Linux Mint and Zorin OS on my old Macs and they really wake up a sing using a lighter weight OS.
The fact that this is even a question is a testament to the quality of these machines.
100%!!
I have the same MacBook as yours. I picked up a base model on eBay and did some upgrades (16GB RAM, 500GB SSD, new battery and thermal paste) and it's been a great computer. I run macOS Catalina and Windows 10 (on Boot Camp, something I can't do on the M1 Macs), and it's very snappy. The SSD makes all the difference in boot times.
That’s awesome! Happy to see you’re seeing a big difference in boot times! Good going on the thermal paste too since you already updated everything else
@@ardentlytech I got my MacBook mid 2012 back in 2012 lol. I did the ram, 1TB SSD, and new battery. Work better and hella faster boot and faster everything. QUESTION!: Why the thermal paste? I will check into it but I didn't do that cause didn't know about it
Upgrade the hard drive to SSD please. Boot time will go from 5 minutes to 40 seconds. ANd 16 Gb of ram will make everything way smoother and faster
I have tree macbook pro! A 2012 13 inch (1tb ssd and 16gb of ram), a 2012 15 inch retina and a 2010 macbook pro 15 (500gb ssd and 8gb of ram)! Both 2012 work LIKE NEW! No joke they work amazing!!! The 2010, even upgraded feels horrible! Not usuable at all! It's crazy how the 2 years make a big difference
Massive difference! Excellent machines!
I have a i5 2012 13inch MBP that looks like it just came out of the box. I use it daily. There's not a scratch anywhere on it. The org battery I replaced in 2021. The upgrades i've done: 16Gb ram, two 2TB SSD hard drives, replace the mag port, installed Win11-Pro via Bootcamp and to top it off it's running Sonoma 14.3 via OpenCore Legacy Patcher.
The only thing I can say "bad" about this MBP is the internal speakers always sucked and they did finally fail and I replaced them with new speakers that dont suck as bad, LOL. This system has to be the best model Apple ever produced. Im a I.T. guy and I take it on site mainly because it requires NO dongles for the ports I require "ethernet".
That’s incredible! Yes love that has the Ethernet port and it’s so easy to upgrade. Love it!
I own a 15" MacBook Pro Intel I7, 16 GB RAM, upgraded to 1TB SSD ($60) and new battery ($50) running Monterey (open core legacy patcher) - It is incredible. Everything works well. Loving it!
got the late 2012 mbp and I paid 80$ because of the battery just dying in less than 1 minute.
Paid around 60$ for a replacement one from iFixit, upgraded the hdd to a 500gb crucial SATA SSD for 32$, paid 10$ on Aliexpress for a adapter that replaces the DVD drive with a SATA m.2 SSD and with MacOS this Macbook was garbage for some advanced stuff like writing 200 pages document, light programming or even editing a 1080p video. However with GNU/Linux (in my case Manjaro), this brick became way more responsible, I was able to get a better battery life than with MacOS (after installing that high quality 3rd party iFixit battery) and like a month ago my RAM failed and I was just able to "replace upgrade" it from 8gb to 16gb. On my newer MacBook Pro 2019 (not recommending it if you want to use Windows or GNU/Linux on it) I would have to do some hardcore soldering to replace the RAM and even if I would want to upgrade the SSD, I would have to replace the SSD chips and the shitty security chip at the same time.
I don't regret selling that 2019 crap and downgrading it to the 2012 model. In fact, I don't even have to use some stupid USB C adapters XD
That’s incredible! Sorry for the hoops you had to jump through but it all worked out in the end! Those usb c adapters can get pretty annoying I feel your pain 😂
My mid 2012 MacBook Pro Intel i7 running Catalina (upgraded to 16Gb and 1Tb SSD) runs ON1 perfectly well for photography with no spinning umbrellas! Wouldn't want to use it for video editing - although it will run Ableton Live as a DAW for music (just not those massive complex sets!). Since it's still easily upgradeable this is the best of the older MBPs Apple have produced.
That’s incredible! And I agree, definitely a marvelous product. Did you notice a big difference in speed with the ram and SSD upgrades?
@@ardentlytech Yes - it went from taking minutes to load from shut down to under thirty seconds. To make it even more useable I recently added a 4k monitor using the displayport output and (yes, there is a slight reduction from 4k) but this allows easier editing of photos on the larger screen. I'd recommend a using a second display with most recent software.
Absolutely agree. The late 2012 Retina Display MBP started the practice of soldering parts to the logic board.
@@ardentlytech i got this same model from my older sibling it is sooo good thinking about it has specs from 2012
@@ardentlytech starting your mac from ssd should take 10-15 secs.
Your startup is slow cause u using hdd and most probably have a lot of stuff on and not defragment.
Just swap to ssd huge difference
Bragging time: 2012 Mac Book 15" pro with SS2 2TO 870 evo / 16 GB memory / Monterey (piece of crap so far). 3rd battery... Office job mainly. I am still hesitating to buy a new MacBook Pro :))))
Haha nice upgrades!! Have you noticed a big improvement with the harddrive swap and 16gb?
I still use mine occasionally and upgraded to a 8tb SSD and 16gb of RAM. Works very solidly for a 13" i5 model.
Very nice, honest video here!
I would like to share some additional infos about this particular MacBook model, based on my personal experience with it:
Two years ago I've put together for my gf a now fully upgraded Mid-2012 13" Unibody MacBook Pro with 2.9GHz dual core i7.
I decided to go all the way in with it replacing the original HDD with a 500GB SSD, swapped the dead CD-Drive with a 500GB HDD for Time Machine backups, bumped the RAM from 8GB to 16GB, add a new battery and last of all I ordered a custom printed/built adapter from some amazing British guys (Intriguing Industries, if you wanna check out) that allowed me to sit in a 2015 15" Retina MacBook Pro's Wi-Fi 5/Bluetooth 4.2 combo card in it.
Since the only component in this machine not officially supported by Apple in macOS 11 Big Sur is the original Wi-Fi 4/Bluetooth 4.0 combo card, with the upgraded card I've been able to install macOS Big Sur via Open Core Legacy Patcher, fully supported with fully enabled SIP, SecureBoot and FeatureUnlock! :D
For casual web-browsing, watching movies on streaming platforms, Office-related work and general basic usage is still very capable and feels snappy.
Battery life (even if new) is still pretty limited, the 1280x800 LCD panel has still got good colors and viewing angles, but lacks pixel density and is 10 steps behind even a 2013 Retina Macbook Pro. Fine, but absolutely non great.
16GB of RAM is probably overkill for basic tasks but allows macOS to "expand" as he wants without a single disk-swap, which is particularly good for improving SSD's life span.
Realistically the 2.5GHz i5 and the 2.9GHz i7 perform quite the same as they're both dual-core Ivy Bridge (3rd gen) processors, with the i7 being clocked a little higher and nothing more.
The minuscule heatsink and fan are no way near sufficient to dissipate all of the heat the processor outputs (especially the i7) now that it has to work much harder with newer software (regardless of fresh thermal paste), resulting in the bottom case getting very hot quite easily and quickly under normal use.
All things considered, this is still an amazing machine, the last (and best) of a forgotten era of user-friendly self-repairable devices, with actually still a lot of life in it!
MacOS 12 Monterey runs great on the machine, although SIP must be lowered and SecureBoot disabled due to Apple dropping support for Intel HD 4000 graphics (no big deal at all).
Ventura is still in Beta and OCLP in Alpha regarding Ventura support, but there are preliminary indications that the Mid-2012 will be able to run Ventura, probably not perfectly but enough to making it usable for another year.
Mid-2012 Unibody's days are obviously limited, but for now, don't call it dead yet :)
Open core and Mac OS 13.x Ventura work very well on 2012 Mbp 13.
This version of the macbook pro is THE BEST ever made! I run one with 2 hard drives (on a bracket and adapter i've made myself, yes, you read that correctly, i designed and soldered my own adapter from optical drive port to 2;5 inch hdd), and my bracket accepts 7mm slimline hdds, i have 16gb in it, and an ssd offcourse. I have ventura on it, and it works amazingly well! And i bought it just a couple of days ago just to have a macbook pro around to do iphone stuff and to browse the web. The battery has still 96 percent with 275 cycles! Amazing lil' machine
Absolutely incredible!
I had my Late 2012 Macbook Pro replaced with SSD as soon as I bought it, and these days it's still a very good laptop to use for my daily works. If it's not because of the short battery and plus 2022 Macbook Air looks too good to me, I would stay with this babe for another couple years I guess.
I’m right there with you! That M2 MacBook Air is so clean! Very tempting.
I'm still using a mid 2012 retina pro for my music production. Only thinking now about an upgrade, not because it doesn't work or because it's slow, just because I think it's time.
I just bought one for $50, and upgrade Ram 4 to 16gb, hd to ssd, install catalina, boommm,,,use for daily browsing, batery has 126 cycle.
These 2012 Unibody machines are bulletproof as long as you install an SSD and have at least 8GB Ram they will fly. I am running Ventura on mine with OCLP. Apps never lag on mine and boot time from shutdown is seconds only. I get 4 hours out of my original Apple battery. I Can’t believe anyone would still want to use an old optical spinning drive no wonder his machine is slow.
Great review I'm still using mine, I use Ventura faster than ever.
I really like this video!! Nice and straightforward! 🎉🎉🎉
I've had mines since 2013 and see no need to get a new one until summer of 2023. I only upgrade PC units. I've lucked out with my Macbook Pro and this is year 10.
These MacBooks are bulletproof!
Coffee killed my 15 inch Mid 2012 MBP 4 years ago 😢, I was broken hearted . I’ve since had a 15 inch 2018 MBP but the dongle life wasn’t for me 😡~ I don’t care how much faster it is .
Not having the cash to jump up to the newest MBP I started hunting around for a replacement for my all time favorite laptop and I just found it on Mercari for $320 🎉-
Perfect screen with no chips or dead spots, 500 gb SSD in addition to the original 500 gb hard drive, i7 2.3 GHz, 8GB ram and Intel HD Graphics 4000 1536 MB.
Nostalgia is my vibe and the properly lit keyboard and the brilliantly Illuminated apple logo has this girl thrilled 😅!
Best Apple 🍎 laptop ever bar none so far 😊. Thanks for the affirmation!
Way to go!! So glad you’re able to score that awesome deal! As long as you have a MBP that fits your needs and preferences, doesn’t matter what year it came from. Happy you found the right one for you!
@@ardentlytech I’m thrilled and on my Catalina update now, it’s a long way up from Mountain Lion 😏.
Keyboard is awesome on these older machines. Perhaps the best among any generations or any brands.
@@7hx89 I Know it, so good I bought another 😀.
Great video! Too funny, I have a 2013 Macbook Pro and it's solid. I had to get a new one because it got too slow. Probably some things I could have done to speed it up. Thanks for the info!
Anytime thanks for watching! Hope you’re enjoying the new one!
still use my 2012 13" MBP 2.9ghz i7, 16GB RAM with 512GB EVO SSD, Catalina
What! No mention of the dvd drive or the sd card slot? These two peripherals alone makes this model relevant in 2022. With some additional modifications, the life of this Mac can be extended. Once usb-c become ubiquitous this model will be officially obsolete. IMO.
Totally agree! Though I don’t have many use for that disk drive, that SD card slot is CLUTCH
It’s funny - I tried to buy an even older MBP from a friend and they wouldn’t sell it BECAUSE it still has a DVD drive, which is why they’ve held on to it and won’t sell it. I offered to at least upgrade it but most/some folks just like what they like.
You can up these things now for $50 or less with careful shopping and upgrade to Monterey or even Ventura very easily.
I watched this video to see if it warrants upgrading my mid 2012 to a newer macbook pro.
Finding it difficult to justify $3000 for a new one! (AUD) I've upgraded mine running catalina, 1TB SSD & 16GB ram.
Will admit it needs a new battery.
Ram didnt seem to make a lot of difference but changing to SSD was amazing difference
Great laptop. Only replaced it with the MacBook Pro M1 Pro.
Apple typically takes 10 years to come up with worth-buying successors.
Dang that is a statement if I ever heard one! But yeah def agree about that M1 Pro! They are currently on sale for a great price at Costco!
interesting, I've been searching for 2012 for a while and found a great 2011 one that is still working great. Although you state you stayed with Catalina you are showing videos where you updated to Monterey.. Mine got High Sierra and with old computers, I don't use the net as it gets difficult and may update things that will stop your computer working. I use Photoshop and redesigned PS6 which works pretty good. I always get the max ram. My battery gets down pretty quickly and as I never liked laptops I tend to let it plugged into the wall. A great computer indeed and all the upgrades you are talking about are fine if you wish to do so. I prefer keeping the computer in its original state and using a recent one for bigger work. One day it will retire in its box in my collection :)
That’s awesome, you have a good system there and it sounds like it fits your needs perfect for the most part. I am using Catalina, I just downloaded a Monterey wallpaper because I liked the look lol but it’s operating on Catalina.
All the positive things you said about your 2012 MBP is how we felt for our 13" early 2010 MBP, 8GB, 256 HDD. With its age came issues, battery life diminished to about half an hour, it became painfully slow, cannot receive Mac OS updates, and because of its older OS numerous programs would not update and some would not load on to the MBP.
As for slow image this, from a cold boot getting to the login screen takes over half an hour, then you log in getting to your home screen again slow. Once up and running depending on the software to open it was not too bad again slow opening many programs. This year we retired that MBP. So, after twenty-two years as an Apple everything Apple only household/office, we moved to Windows 11 and Samsung phones. After that migration we realized there is nothing we miss about Apple products, nothing. Using Windows 11 allowed us to begin using a couple of our other hardware devices whereas Apple had stopped supporting them. For the past twenty-two years Apple was a good run, however times have changed, we needed to change as well.
Glad you found a system that works well for you! I’m sure that was tough switch after being so deep in the Apple ecosystem.
@@ardentlytech Hi, thank you for your polite reply. Yes, the Windows system better suits me than Apple. Switching from Apple to Windows, after a month or so all was good. Back in the day working in IT, I used and supported CP/M, MS DOS and IBM DOS, Windows 3.0, up through XP and Server 2000, Microsoft Office, and Lotus SmartSuite as well; fun times. As for Apple products they were mostly a positive experience. Now, again experiencing Windows, and Android, I have zero need to purchase an Apple product. Being as I own a bunch of Apple stock, I do wish Apple well.
The 2010 mbp is not THAT bad, even under todays standard. Your hhd is failing, therefore the slow response. Change into a SSD for $15 and you will have a night and day difference. Use open core or Dosdude patchers to get macOS 10.15-13.x will make it even better integrated with the Apple ecosystem. 😅
I found the same MacBook for 200€ with a magic mouse and i'm pretty sure i'm gonna buy it because I need a cheap laptop that still performs quite well and also because I love Apple's design language (both hardware and software) and I'll also be installing OpenCore Legacy Patcher to get it to Monterey
EDIT: I ended up getting a 2014 15" for 315€ because my budget increased and patched it with Ventura
you need to invest in a SSD drive that will speed your macbook up loads
Hi, i have mid 2012 with mavericks and i want to put ssd samsung evo 870. It will be work fine with clone? I need mavericks
Honestly I’m not sure on the compatibility with the evo. I have a link in the description for one I recommend that should work fine with your MBP. That’s not to say that’s the only ssd that will work but thats the only one I’d generally recommend. Hope that helps!
Is anyone using this with Final Cut Pro and Audacity? I would be getting a 16GB RAM + 1TB SSD model. This seems like a great hobby machine for me, but I need it to be able to run at least those two software smoothly. (I don't mind running an older version of FCP if necessary.)
Thank you for your video. Just wonder if you're using 1.35V or 1.5V RAM? Thank you!
mine still works. I'm using it to watch this video.
That’s awesome! These are powerhouse computers!
Very Awesome Video by you Sir... Your T-Shirt is super cool. All around wonderful presentation by you....,.😉😉
Thanks for watching! Dragon Ball Z all day 🤙
Still rocking Mt Lion on my 2012 for a Serato Scratchlive setup I have.
Dang I haven’t heard mountain loin in freaking forever! Props to you!
Nice work. Mine is 2011. Is there an adapter to make USB 2.0 have the functionality of USB 3, or am I stuck with the 2? And, hypothetically, if I install a VM to run Windows would that upgrade my computer's performance, or would there still be limitations based on all the basic out -of -the- box spec aspects of my host? Just as one example, I need to use OCLP to upgrade to at least Big Sur (10.15) in order to use Firefox. I'm hoping a VM will push me ahead, but not certain.
It would be great to replace my old laptop!
Hey bro, I have always used windows OS and for college work, we used to use cracked software. And even in old 8year old laptop with i5 processor latest win 10 would run smooth and support all apps, even the apps that's aren't on windows store.
So my question is. What about macbook
1. Can u install latest OS?
2. Can you install pirated software?
Great question! Yes old MacBooks up to a certain point can install the latest software, 8 year old ones can run the newest software for example. Mine is a 10 year old MacBook so it stopped getting the newest software about 2 years ago. However you can do a workaround like I mentioned in the video to run the newest OS on this MacBook and older ones. It might not run that well on older MacBooks but you can definitely do it if you choose to!
@@ardentlytech wow. Really? That's amazing. So in. The end it comes to which software we use.. like engineering software, windows is a go... For editing etc.. MacBook... For normal office work. Any OS laptop will be fine.. right?
The reason why I want to get an old MacBook is cheaper I want to know is it worth it if I’m trying to start my UA-cam videos using iMovie on a 2010 or 2012 software ? Since I don’t wanna spend a lot of money on a new MacBook 2024😢
I have the 2011 MBP
Which laptop did you edit this video with ?
Adrienne edits all of our videos right now on a M1 13” MBP with 16GB of memory and 1tb of storage.
where do you find software, besides Apple Store, that will still run on the MacBook Pro mid-2012?
The only place I get software would be the Apple Store for my MacBook. There might be other programs or ways around that but I’m not privy to those other methods
I’m just starting to do music so I brought a fully loaded MacBook Pro 💻 Mid 2012 MacOS Catalina 10.5.7 2.9GHZ 500 Sata drive & I just brought the 1TB Samsung T7 SSD for Logic Pro X. Here’s my question since the MacBook 2012 has a headphone Jack will I be able to hook up the Pop 510 Lavalier mic 🎤 to the laptop using the Logitech C922X web camera? because the internal mic in the webcam sucks and I don’t want to buy a web cam if I can’t hear my self talk because I’m only using the Pop mic for zoom calls & even though I have the Rode pod mic & my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface I don’t want to use it until I actually start my UA-cam channel in January so for Christmas I’m going to treat my self to either the Sony ZV E-10 or the Sony 6400 & since I have nearly 12K followers on TikTok I can be more creative once I get the camera that I want.
Great question! Yes I’ve done this before. I’ve used a Logitech external webcam paired with an external mic that inputs via 3.5mm headphone jack. I used OBS, a software to record that content in. It asks what you want the video source to be and what you want the audio source to be so you can specify exactly what you want to use. Hope that helps and good luck!!
Thanks!!! ✊🏾I do have one more question which camera did you buy? I’m only asking since you have the same exact MacBook Pro because I was thinking about getting the Logitech C922X camera & put it on Top of my silver HP monitor.
I can't get the new updates on mine so I can't download anything from the app store 😭
Same here 😭 if I do a back door upgrade to the newest OS I’m sure I could but not willing to jump through the hoops
Hi, I'm using a mid-2012 13" macbook pro running Catalina & was looking to upgrade my graphics card. Do you have recommendations for an internal card (my thunderbolt had stopped working)... if not, external GPUs that work on USB? Thanks!
I don't see how you could do this
The desired peripherals may cost more than a functioning 2012 mbp 13 or better models. If you want hands on experience, get a replacement motherboard for less than the whole machine. Otherwise, depending on your budget, get another used model for $50-100, or an updated model such as 2014-15 mbp 15 for about $200+.
Hello! I have the same machine just like u MBP 2012 runs Catalina 8 gb RAM, 750 GB HDD and i want to make him an upgrade. Do you think is worth it? The CPU in 50% proces have 70 - 80 degrees and in fully load 100. Is not ok right? I want to put him the 16 gb ram, 1 TB ssd, maybe to replace the battery and keyboard and put more New version of the mac os. What do you think? Thanks a lot!
That’s awesome! If I were in your shoes of wanting an upgrade, those are the exact things I would do. I have links to all those parts you would want in my description with some of the best prices i can find. It will feel like a new computer once you’re done!
@@ardentlytech Thanks a lot!
Is the macbook pro mid 2010 good too?
Definitely! Would for sure recommend a higher processor model like the i5 or i7, but the main thing is not having too high of expectations or demands out of an older model like these. If you are using it just for a casual web browsing, emails, FaceTime, iMessage, even light photo editing, then that would be perfect. Anything more than that and I think you would be disappointed. Would definitely recommend an upgraded SSD and maxing out the ram as well if you plan on using it for awhile.
@@ardentlytech thanks brother I'll keep that in mind
Just found a local add for both a 2011 imac & macbook pro for $150?!! Apparently it's a storage unit find and the guy doesn't know how to boot past recovery mode?!!
Tempted, although the 2011 sketchy GPUs are highly suss IMO. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That’s a great price for both included but yeah definitely suss!
10 minutes for turning it up bro? U need to upgrade to a ssd . Also the i7 is known for fucking up the motherboard thats why I got the I5 I produce music and I use this macbook maxed out
what ram upgrade you do
@@januscaspi2070 u can put i think 32 gbs of ram in an i7
I installed windows 10 on it and could play gta V with it without any upgrade😅
Woahhh that’s dope!!
Have or anyone that you know are using the Sony ZV-E10 to edit photos on a MacBook Pro Mid-2012 MacOS Catalina 10.15.7? I had to ask that specific question for compatibility concerns because I have everything that I need except for the Camera & I'm leaning towards the Sony ZV-E10 & being that my setup is in my leaving room I'm just gonna get a decent lense that cost under $200 because all I want the camera for is to use for UA-cam & I'm very curious how a TikTok would look using that camera I will send you a pic of my small new beginner setup to your Instagram & speaking of camera's what camera did you use to make this video?
Personally no we haven’t used a ZV-E10 nor know anyone that has for compatibility comparison sorry. I would imagine it would but double check before buying/ordering. For this video I used a Nikon d5100 but Adrienne on the channel uses a Sony a6400 with a 16mm sigma lens. You can check our other videos on our channel from adrienne to see how you like that look for reference.
Ok thanks iv decided that I’m gonna go with the Avermedia PW315 Webcam because for my HP monitor because I had read a positive review on Amazon from a customer that is using it on the regular MacBook Pro 2012. If you go to your Instagram you will see my home set up.
A1278?
Yeah! I love mine
Your link has a 2012 with 4gb of ram and a 128gb hdd for $230 lmfao. That might be the worst deal ive ever seen in my life. Please nobody buy that BS. You can get the same exact thing on ebay for $100 and it will usually have a 500gb hdd instead of 128. Why are you supporting scamming people?
The hardware is awesome, actually it is not to blame for any performance issues… Apple’s system is the real culprit. They are getting worse on every new iteration. Really poor work from the Devs.