Me too! Fun fact, this upload originally started out as “why Peragus is genius” but I quickly realised there were too many cool things to discuss and analyse throughout the Peragus level, and thus I tactically switched to Taris. Very much looking forward to digging into Peragus in the future!
Both do amazing jobs as setting the tone & gameplay loops for their games. Both can be a bit much after years & years of doing them, but they both do their jobs very well for first-timers.
Telos is much worse than Peragus, as it is just running back and forth for the sake of a dialogue, and the Bao-Dur section is boring fighting and nothing more. Getting to Atris is the only good thing on Telos
Swoop racing tip - on your first swoop race, your 'training' race, race as badly as you can. Go slow, barely move, take ages. The rest of the Taris swoop races will take that as your average, calculating the times to beat around that. If you race really badly on purpose, the rest of Taris's mandatory races are hilariously easy as a result.
It's such a cozy, yet horrifying little mirror to our present dystopia. You'd almost think they had a force vision... 20 years ago, it felt a bit by the numbers. I couldn't wait to escape and see the galaxy. In 2024, fighting for that planet feels like fighting for us. Even knowing it can't be saved, I delayed the escape until I was sure there wasn't anything missed. Looking forward to seeing your take on it.
Taris has a mechanical purpose I never noticed as a kid. Taris forces you to multiclass. You have time to roleplay as a scout, scoundrel or soldier and you get all their basic skills. You feel like you weren't raised as a jedi, and makes building characters more interesting.
The algorithm certainly smiled upon me today! This was a fascinating video essay, and I greatly enjoyed it! As someone who hates Taris, and sees it as only a source of one really cool upgradeable blaster pistol, it was interesting to see it broken down through the lens of power. We see what Sith galactic domination will look like if Malak isn't stopped, if Bastila isn't rescued. We see that no one is safe, not even the uber-rich (who are actually the first to die, ironically enough, by living so high on their towers). We are subjected to all this power, and have none of our own to combat it because we are not Jedi yet. We're just Joe/Jill Schmoe, sidekick to Carth as we search for Bastila and a way off-world. Thanks for the video! You've gotten my subscription, and I look forward to other videos you put out (though as someone else noted, I had to watch it at 75% speed)!
I’m glad you enjoyed the thought experiment with Taris! Thank you so much for your support! I will be working on getting a better speed for the next video as well!
I was, like, 12 when I played Kotor for the first time and I spent hours running around Taris, getting quests done, talking to the NPC’s, helping as many people as I could, getting all those Promised Land journals…. so I was pretty miffed when it got destroyed. Taris made me really hate Malak lol
Yeah I love Taris. It makes things on Dantooine feel more impactful. You're basically Luke Skywalker circa A New Hope on Taris. Luke never used a lightsaber or force powers because he didn't have time to really train, so you're basically emulating this through Taris. Hell, most old school Star Wars games had this perspective. Such as Dark Forces 2 and Jedi Outcast. It makes getting a lightsaber and force powers so much more impactful.
Taris is great. It is not that Taris is too long and overly fleshed out, it's that the rest of the game is rushed and not equally fleshed out. Taris is the best part, if only the rest of the game was as in depth.
I really enjoy taris. I like exploring the cities in Star Wars just being a random dude. Being the chosen hero jedi is cool but it's nice seeing another side
In a similar vein to this, I defend Peragus II in Kotor 2 as an opening level (which also has its own skip mod). I love it in the same way that I love the opening half-hour of Empire Strikes Back; a mostly self contained short story that becomes the foundation for further adventures to come. I love the creepy haunted house vibe as you try to solve the mystery of how you ended up here, what happened to the station and figuring out what/who is hunting you halfway through the level. OF course the writing in Kotor 2 does a lot to elevate the gameplay and story.
The argument for Taris imo is the simple but efficient truth of "necessity for setups if you want payoffs". Delayed satisfaction is more satisfying than being given everything on a silver platter without working for it for a reason, and the reason becoming a Jedi felt good and was memorable in KoTOR1 to begin with is because you were forced to endure being a commoner on Taris first. Sure, I get it. People want their cheap lightsaber/force power thrills immediately. But that letting people have that would have rendered KoTOR1 a much less memorable experience overall.
Taris is good for pacing. On a first playthrough, the one that matters the most for writers and devs, the buildup to the escape makes the whole planet worthwhile
Taris had these moments that always gave me peace. I always enjoyed the dialogue on the upper levels. Hearing the sounds of craft go by, and it compliments the deep conversations.
The Carth blasting away at rakghouls while you were talking to Candy was my ABSOLUTE favorite part of this video. I just couldn't help but laugh. Totally worth the time investment.
Taris was disliked? I had no idea because to me Taris was the Midgar from Final Fantasy VII, colossal with several places to explore a similar theme about a city built on level that segregate people and a memorable part of the game, actually I was a little disappointed at the rest of the game for being so small in comparison.
Finally, UA-cam recommendations finally gives me something good. I hope you continue creating content. Your videos are very good, don’t let the views be an indicator, I could tell how good this video was 6 mins in. As long as you enjoy making videos, you’ll be successful
When I was younger, I got scared to talking to the Hidden Vek guard at the front of the door and essentially got stuck on Tarris for about a two or so years. When I got a bit older, I was able to ask if I could see the boss, thinking it start a fight or a game over and I was surprised when I was able to move the story along. Child me was a very weird, I know.
I played this as a young teen and remember getting stuck on Taris. I can't remember exactly what I got stuck on, but I remember getting frustrated by how long it took to travel between the upper and lower city.
I, too, have been playing Kotor since 2003 and I love this video. The editing, the points - all well made & well done. You should totally do one about Kotor II!
What I like most about both games is the social commentary they present and philosophical questions we're faced with throughout. Taris does this so well with the brutal depiction of the upper, lower and undercity as social classes. It might be my favourite planet
@@steveng6721 I like the story bits and the atmosphere, but it drags for way too long, and unlike Taris, it's a desolate station, meaning you don't get to talk to anyone, no side missions, no vendors and you only have two companions. It's like they tried to cram the entire tutorial into the Endar Spiral.
taris is my second favorite planet in the entire game. I didn’t even realize people hated it, it’s so much fun!! KOTOR 2 starting planets on the other hand.. I could live without Telos and Peragus.
I can't believe people don't like Taris. I always loved exploring it and going through all of the missions. And there are a lot of hilariously evil options you can take in Taris that I always enjoy taking
I still remember being psyched when I found the galaxy Droid Easter egg that allowed me to go back to Taris. Even though I couldn't go back to the ship and had to go back to where I had last saved, it felt really good to get some revenge on all of the Sith and Rakghouls that gave me a problem early on before I became a Jedi. It was definitely cathartic.
Honestly Taris is my favorite planet in the first game. It’s the largest and feels like it has the most varied content. I also love Peragus from The Sith Lords for its mood. To me the problem is Dantooine and Telos. You complete the first tutorial planet and then are forced into another one immediately after before you’re free to go. Not only that but imo they’re much less interesting
Taris is a great example of an excellent starting level/planet for all the reasons you mentioned & more. It gets the players introduced to the lore in a way that feels organic, sets the tone of the game perfectly & pushes the narrative forward. It would be ludicrous to ever recomend skipping it.
When I first played this as a kid I got way too connected to the janitor at the alien apartments and was devastated when Taris was blown up. It really hit me to see genocide on that level.
And, to me, it didn't matter how horrible the rich were to aliens. Justice required they be reigned in - not murdered. And I think this absolutely encapsulates some of our current reality.
When I played this game as a kid, I would just run around Taris for hours and take in the atmosphere. Could never skip it. I still play through this gem of a game at least once a year and i HAVE to do all the quests
So glad that I stumbled across your channel (praise be the algorithm). Appreciate you sharing your thoughts on Taris. I'll admit when I first played KOTOR I thought it was a waste of time....but when I revisited it later I enjoyed it so much more. Glad you were able to explain why in this video!
How thoughtful this video essay was is impressive and that it didn’t overly summarize the game like some ‘analyses’ on UA-cam do was a breath of fresh air. The connection to literary development was superb! I just subscribed, looking forward to your future content
I just found this channel from this video and I like your style of the animated character in like an apartment setup lol. Taris was my second favorite planet from KOTOR. Only behind Dantooine because I love the peaceful farmland vibe
I’ve always liked Taris and was surprised when I found out people didn’t It’s a tutorial planet, sure, but it almost knows that it is? There’s always something you can do if you get bored.
Taris is designed to give the player two different opinions of it depending on the choice we are forced to make later in the game. Spoiler below. For those who embrace the darkside and end up killing off the useless weaker characters, Taris is viewed as a waste of time until we get our Jedi powers. For those who choose the lightside, Taris is viewed as a great time that we got to know some friends and it serves as a motivation to stop Darth Malik because he killed off all the friends we made along the way.
You get sick of Taris because its the most replayed part of the game, being first. But it's really quite solid and the buildup to saving Bastila is great. And it ends in one of the very few actually depicted orbital bombardments in media. If you gave KOTOR the FF7 remake treatment, Taris could be an entire game. Also I love that the whole Battle Meditation is due to the author Timothy Zahn rationalizing why the superior Imperial fleet fled Endor after the Emperor's death - he'd been using the ability and when it suddenly ended, their morale broke.
Sabre Interactive is working on a remake. It's in developmental hell, though. There's been very little updates surrounding it, since Aspyr lost the project. I honestly take that as a good sign, personally.
Taris is one of those places that you kinda start to appreciate over time. Do I think it goes on a bit longer than it should? Yeah kinda. But it still does the job of getting you prepped for everything afterwards.
I'm with you. Granted I only replayed KotOR like four times, but it's still such a neat start. If the entire game was set on Taris I honestly wouldn't mind.
For me, Taris was one of my favourites. I think in 2004 this was my first experience in a RPG within the Star Wars universe and I honestly found the planet super informative and immersive. I really enjoyed the slow burn and build up.
Taris is more engaging than Kashyk. There's barely anything to do on Kashykk that isn't related to the main quest. There's a couple Czerka goons to assist or kill, there's the monster hunt which is basically a linear path where you tap interact, there's the mando hunt, and that's about. That part of the game is *HARD* carried by Zalbaar's interractions with people and the implications, all things that the game *NEVER* capitalizes on, and of course, *JOLEE BINDO* Taris has more interactivity, more responsiveness to your player choices. Because you're such a low level and don't have your jedi powers *EVERY* fight is interesting, you have such limited resources that you can't just force your way through it. Taris also some *REALLY* good fucking loot that you can get *REALLY* early and use *THROUGHOUT* the planet. You can get Bendak's Blaster like, 30mins in and that gun will last you literally the whole game if you chose. There's also the echani double blade there, a fantastic early game double weapon, Missions Vibroblade is god tier at that point for duel wielders and single swordsman alike. Taris' problem isn't that it's a tutorial. Taris' problem is that you never get to go *back* You *never* get to follow up. The problem with Taris is that while your decisions on Taris matter for Taris, the decisions on Taris don't matter to *you.* If you found all the items exclusive to Taris and got all the credits and XP you get from the side missions as a payout in some loot crate on the Ebon Hawk the galaxy wouldn't know the difference, the characters wouldn't know the difference, the *story* wouldn't know the difference. Taris' problem is that you don't closure for any good that you do, you don't face any repurcussions for the evil that you do -- meaning on repeat playthroughs you have *ZERO* reason to engage with the world outside of its ability to feed you resources. Imagine if instead of functionally destroying Taris, Malak just devastates the planet. After your second star map you get informed that Taris is in turmoil, the republic is trying to land but the planetary defenses were engaged some time during the bombardment and are shooting down any ship not listed within a short list of scheduled arrivals, and since Malak's blockade prevented anyone from leaving, the only ships who might have been able to come and go were locked on the planet, and destroyed, when Malak razed it... all except the Ebon Hawk, Davik's personal ship, which has free admittance to the planet, naturally. The surface of Taris is in total chaos. There are rioting, desperate people everywhere and *YOU* have the only way off world. You land at a port not too far from your old apartment. People in the area come to check it out and your port encounter isnt some goon asking for a docking fee, it's desperate people begging, *demanding* you take them on your ship. Accommodating them would amount to you losing a few credits for the cost of ferrying these people home, but, you get some lightside points and can do some interactions with potential friends, family, and criminals on the planet as it relates to people. You can choose who to save, what to charge. Do you rescue the racist nobles who now have not even money to give you? Do you extort the impoverished aliens who're desperate to escape the chaos, even when they've come to benefit the most from the looting? You can touch in with the Hutts, the gladiators, the gangs, the dancers and Davik's slaves. Did you give the underdwellers the map to paradise? Did you doom them to an eternity in the dark? Your decisions will affect whether they're there or not when you return. Did you leave the Beks in charge? They've taken in strays best as they can but they're *CHARGING* people for protection now, all as an upkeep cost for keeping their gang functioning, meanwhile the Volkers arent charging anybody anything, if you want protection you join the gang, simple as, then you and some of your fellows go out and rob and steal whatever, it's a dirty racket but it doesnt feel as extortive. Volkers don't discriminate between whoever was rich or poor. The Beks want to LEAVE Taris, the Volkers want to use Taris to trap MORE people here. And it's all up to you to decide. This impact could have *DOUBLE* the value if you return after finding out the big twist. Knowing that it was *REVAN* who drove the Exchange from Taris, who *SAVED* not just Johani, but *ALL* the would-be slaves when they arrived, and of course, that his apprentice Malak was the one who came back and *DESTROYED* it? That's powerful narrative fuel.
I'd be curious to hear your opinion on Peragus in Kotor 2. I'm in the camp that loves the Endar Spire and Taris but find Peragus and Telos such a slog to get through. Great vid btw!
Really interesting video. I played KoTOR upon release and have replayed it a few times over the years and in all those years I had no idea that people didn’t like Taris. From my first play through, it always stood out as a distinct highlight of the game to me and I felt that there was a real sense of tragedy when the planet was destroyed and rendered unvisitable. Thanks !
Hey, love the vid , I’m old dad now, but grew up playing this in my early years, formed much of my curiosity and love of various genres. Super happy to see people still talking about this amazing games Thanks for leaving us such a treat ❤
i finally played kotor the other day, and sadly i was spoiled already about the major plot twist. still, the moment was emotional enough that it drove me to go from light side to dark side.
Man I’m happy across this. Subscribed. The info presented, the production and the random jokes/ references. Happy I came across this. I’d love to see a video on Kotor 2. Especially since it’s even more complex.
Thank you so much! I’ve definitely got KOTOR 2 on my list! I’m really looking forward to delving into that game, especially since, unsurprisingly, I really like the Peragus section. I really want to give that project a good amount of time for the analysis and writing stages. This video may have been a tad rushed on my part…
As a kid I wasn’t a fan because you want to get the story going but as an adult I appreciate the two starting levels for both games. Peragus is a bit more depressing simply because you’re stuck on a abandoned base in space, but that sets the tone for the second game, where everything after the Mandalorian and Jedi Civil Wars resulted in this feeling of unease and the Jedi being decimated so it makes sense as a starting level and the tones are very different in both games. The first one is almost plucky and hopeful with the Republic and the Sith being at a stalemate to the point where there is an uneasy balance, planets like Manaan give you an example and the game ends hopeful and triumphant but left in this feeling of unease carried over into the next game due to the destruction of the order and the Jedi being seemingly wiped out so it makes sense as a starting level and the tones are very different in both games. I think both games are very well constructed and provide the perfect set up, I love walking the top of Taris upper city and I feel on edge in the underground and that’s how it should be and you should always take full advantage of the training and XP available in those levels by doing every side mission.
There are two types of gamers - those who read every word and check every dialogue option and those who skip everything until they get to the big booms and get to stabby stab the bad guys. The former love Taris, the latter hate it.
I always loved Taris. The world building and content present in a tutorial world is crazy. Honestly the lore of Taris was more interesting than Manaan or Dantooine.
I found your channel recently, and really appreciated this video. Taris was formative for me, as KotOR was my first RPG. It offers enough flavor, intrigue, and expansion on the story that I never feel that it's a waste of time. I loved your thoughtful outlook, and would love to hear more from you.
Taris is probably the most important planet of the game - it gives the player a planet to get immersed in. The arena, the pazaak tournament, the pod racing, the complex storyline that loops and overlaps within itself! Then it’s ripped away. Leaving the player feeling emotional loss. It’s also the planet that all repeat players should skip.
I really enjoyed this video essay! I like your analysis on the plot importance of Taris, I hadn't realized previously just how much thematic setup for the rest of the story happens in that planet, aside from introducing the majority of the party members, so thanks for making this video!
Just started the video, but I never understood the Taris hate. It is my favorite part of the game. Thematically it fits well with the game’s story that you woke up with basically no memory and thrust into this major conflict. And it’s the only time for the remainder of the game you actually need to strategize combat instead of just plowing through with force powers and lightsabers.
As a kid the only computer we had was in my moms bedroom, I can’t even imagine how many times she had to hear the intro to this game while trying to like read or watch tv lol
I absolutely love Taris. I like that you play as a non-force user and you have to be way more strategic with your credits, usable items, and equipment. I also love the portrayal of a backwards society where the upper class are snobby and the lower class citizens live in their shadow. I think it’s pretty unique in the Star Wars universe. Great video, loved the content😊
I hadn't realized that I wanted a more in-depth look at Taris until your video popped up. This was really well written, presented and produced, and I definitely subscribed for more!
As someone who is far beyond 11 playthroughs you nailed it. Its amazing worldbuilding and environmental storytelling. Its also very tedious when youve done it a million times.
But can you explain why the rest of the game is less tedious/repetitive on an 11th playthrough? I'm a sucker for replaying a good tutorial so I'm more than ready to be wrong here, but I just don't see which of the "weaker on a reply" elements of Taris don't apply equally to the rest of the game.
In retrospect, when you add the retcons and extra meta KOTOR 2 loads in, Taris becomes even better. Revan was considered the best of the Jedi system for that era; conscripted in infancy, psychologically and physically melted down to be forged into the Jedi's ultimate tool. And remember their master was KREIA. I figured Kreia was going to give the Jedi what they wanted in the same way a certain Mr. Morden did. Oh, you want the ultimate Jedi - strong with the Force, great at saber fighting, says all the right words, performs the right actions, and doesn't get attached? Okay, you will totally get that. All those many teachers Revan had? Totally in the vein of Kreia's idea of "find people, take all you can learn or use from them, and then cast them aside." The Jedi figured this was the exemplary "non-attachment" and perfect Jedi creation but what they made was...well, a monster. Someone who was probably never "Light sided" at all! They were pure power and pure image. People saw what they wanted to see in Revan, and it was all by design. Anyone and everyone was just another tool to advance the goal; whether it be thanking a Master and moving on, deliberately killing off the people loyal to the Republic and not Revan's cult of personality at Malachor, or discarding the final companion by severing Malak's jaw and turning him into a subordinate and enemy. And that leads where? Well, a shot to the back. So after that, and the reprogramming and all that, Revan gets to be something they never were - an ordinary person. It's a telling choice from Bioware that the highest alignment scores are NOT on the Jedi. The characters with the highes connection to goodness? Carth and Mission; ordinary people doing what good they can in a world where they're not all that powerful. (With some added meta that Carth's home planet of Telos has a SERIOUSLY fucked up and unequal relationship with the Jedi) And now that you are not Big Powerful Sorcerer, but just a Person, what wlll you be? Even more to the point. the game on Taris forces you to lean on your companions (especially if you metagame and save your leveling for Dantooine), a dependence and connection that Kreia would loathe, but it certainly drives home the point. And I'm with you. I even modded my game so that my character can express great reluctance at being trained. It's still a "but thou must," but the character in my head is miserable as a Jedi. It's power, sure, but it's only the power to end life and destroy. Not to heal or to bring life into the universe.
Very good work in this video. Others have definitely done a lot of great analysis of KOTOR's legacy to narrative-focused games, but I think this essay definitely benefits from being so focused on just Taris because it's so important even if it's overlooked by so many.
Carth fighting in the background while you’re trying to chat with Canderous is the epitome of this game hahahaha it brought back so many memories playing this as a kid. Could not stop laughing hahaha
there's a quest in the old republic mmo where you find out what happened to those people in the undercity that you gave directions to their promised land. it's uh. it's not cheerful. but it also adds a lot to the taris narrative very much enjoyed this analysis, i'll have to play the game again soon with a save editor so i can redistribute points after making the jedi upgrade
I really liked Taris for exactly these reasons. I thought the story there was really well told and interesting. I'm also all for starting out small and insignificant to create a wider range in the experience of growing stronger and the stakes rising greater over the course of the game.
This is a phenomenal essay -- I really can't overstate how well thought-out your analysis is. Kotor was the first real video game I played (when I was 7 lol), and I credit it with sparking my love of writing and narrative. Even now during a replay, I get chills hearing the Upper City theme. Thank you for distilling the story so perfectly and reminding me why this game is so special
The storycrafting for both Kotor games was absolutely legendary. Something we haven’t seen even in the Jedi survivor and fallen order games. Nothing will top Revan’s ultimate story and the impact he had on generations of both the Jedi and Sith. It was Revan who invented the sith’s rule of two which Darth Bane discovered when he found Revan’s holocron on Rohan. He’s been an inspiration for all Jedi who fight against impossible odds no matter your past. He was a gifted Jedi knight who was a savior turned Sith Lord a conqueror, He once again turned Jedi knight and became a hero, before being captured for 300 years and becoming separated via the force and ultimately becoming a villain. He was all things, and there are those who would say he was also nothing. However, he never stood alone.
The Endar Spire is the tutorial level Explains looting and equipping Check Explains swapping teammates Check Explains stealth Check Shows how different methods can be used to move forward Check
I only played kotor at my friend's house a few times til I got older and was able to finally figure out the games name and buy it myself. Taris was all I got to play til I was 15, so I'm weirdly nostalgic to it. While it's a bit slow, I still think it's super exciting
A lot of people hate Taris, and a lot of people hate Peragus, but I love both of these planets a lot
Me too! Fun fact, this upload originally started out as “why Peragus is genius” but I quickly realised there were too many cool things to discuss and analyse throughout the Peragus level, and thus I tactically switched to Taris. Very much looking forward to digging into Peragus in the future!
Peragus is pretty cool on a first playthrough. But after that, it's extremely miserable to get through
Both do amazing jobs as setting the tone & gameplay loops for their games. Both can be a bit much after years & years of doing them, but they both do their jobs very well for first-timers.
I don't hate Peragus as much as I hate Telos
Telos is much worse than Peragus, as it is just running back and forth for the sake of a dialogue, and the Bao-Dur section is boring fighting and nothing more. Getting to Atris is the only good thing on Telos
Swoop racing tip - on your first swoop race, your 'training' race, race as badly as you can. Go slow, barely move, take ages. The rest of the Taris swoop races will take that as your average, calculating the times to beat around that. If you race really badly on purpose, the rest of Taris's mandatory races are hilariously easy as a result.
You are an actual legend.
👍
Wat
It's such a cozy, yet horrifying little mirror to our present dystopia. You'd almost think they had a force vision...
20 years ago, it felt a bit by the numbers. I couldn't wait to escape and see the galaxy.
In 2024, fighting for that planet feels like fighting for us.
Even knowing it can't be saved, I delayed the escape until I was sure there wasn't anything missed.
Looking forward to seeing your take on it.
Thank you for your insightful comment on Taris! It’s scary to think about how it mirrors reality, but a very important point to make.
Taris has a mechanical purpose I never noticed as a kid. Taris forces you to multiclass. You have time to roleplay as a scout, scoundrel or soldier and you get all their basic skills. You feel like you weren't raised as a jedi, and makes building characters more interesting.
I feel like repeat players can skip Taris. But they should never *forget* Taris.
The algorithm certainly smiled upon me today! This was a fascinating video essay, and I greatly enjoyed it! As someone who hates Taris, and sees it as only a source of one really cool upgradeable blaster pistol, it was interesting to see it broken down through the lens of power. We see what Sith galactic domination will look like if Malak isn't stopped, if Bastila isn't rescued. We see that no one is safe, not even the uber-rich (who are actually the first to die, ironically enough, by living so high on their towers). We are subjected to all this power, and have none of our own to combat it because we are not Jedi yet. We're just Joe/Jill Schmoe, sidekick to Carth as we search for Bastila and a way off-world.
Thanks for the video! You've gotten my subscription, and I look forward to other videos you put out (though as someone else noted, I had to watch it at 75% speed)!
I’m glad you enjoyed the thought experiment with Taris! Thank you so much for your support! I will be working on getting a better speed for the next video as well!
Influence Lost: Kreia fucking SENT me.
where?
I was, like, 12 when I played Kotor for the first time and I spent hours running around Taris, getting quests done, talking to the NPC’s, helping as many people as I could, getting all those Promised Land journals…. so I was pretty miffed when it got destroyed. Taris made me really hate Malak lol
Yeah I love Taris. It makes things on Dantooine feel more impactful. You're basically Luke Skywalker circa A New Hope on Taris. Luke never used a lightsaber or force powers because he didn't have time to really train, so you're basically emulating this through Taris. Hell, most old school Star Wars games had this perspective. Such as Dark Forces 2 and Jedi Outcast. It makes getting a lightsaber and force powers so much more impactful.
Taris is great. It is not that Taris is too long and overly fleshed out, it's that the rest of the game is rushed and not equally fleshed out. Taris is the best part, if only the rest of the game was as in depth.
I really enjoy taris. I like exploring the cities in Star Wars just being a random dude.
Being the chosen hero jedi is cool but it's nice seeing another side
In a similar vein to this, I defend Peragus II in Kotor 2 as an opening level (which also has its own skip mod). I love it in the same way that I love the opening half-hour of Empire Strikes Back; a mostly self contained short story that becomes the foundation for further adventures to come. I love the creepy haunted house vibe as you try to solve the mystery of how you ended up here, what happened to the station and figuring out what/who is hunting you halfway through the level. OF course the writing in Kotor 2 does a lot to elevate the gameplay and story.
The argument for Taris imo is the simple but efficient truth of "necessity for setups if you want payoffs".
Delayed satisfaction is more satisfying than being given everything on a silver platter without working for it for a reason, and the reason becoming a Jedi felt good and was memorable in KoTOR1 to begin with is because you were forced to endure being a commoner on Taris first.
Sure, I get it. People want their cheap lightsaber/force power thrills immediately. But that letting people have that would have rendered KoTOR1 a much less memorable experience overall.
Taris is good for pacing. On a first playthrough, the one that matters the most for writers and devs, the buildup to the escape makes the whole planet worthwhile
Taris had these moments that always gave me peace. I always enjoyed the dialogue on the upper levels. Hearing the sounds of craft go by, and it compliments the deep conversations.
I played this game so much as a kid. It's been what, 20 years? and I can still tell you every twist and turn necessary to progress through Taris.
The Carth blasting away at rakghouls while you were talking to Candy was my ABSOLUTE favorite part of this video. I just couldn't help but laugh. Totally worth the time investment.
I never knew people hated Taris. I enjoyed it when I played KOTOR and seeing it again in TOR.
Same here
Yea, my only problem with Taris was that I didn't understand the game well and kept failing at Bendak's fight
All my homies love Taris
Taris is honestly one of my favourite parts of the game
Taris has to be a grind to embed the sense of normal in the world so that when you become a Jedi it feels significant.
I enjoy Taris so much. Nothing can beat the music + the art direction that kicks in when you go out from the apartments.
Taris was disliked? I had no idea because to me Taris was the Midgar from Final Fantasy VII, colossal with several places to explore a similar theme about a city built on level that segregate people and a memorable part of the game, actually I was a little disappointed at the rest of the game for being so small in comparison.
Finally, UA-cam recommendations finally gives me something good.
I hope you continue creating content. Your videos are very good, don’t let the views be an indicator, I could tell how good this video was 6 mins in.
As long as you enjoy making videos, you’ll be successful
Thank you so much for your support! I’m hoping to keep making content! There are so many games I’d like to analyse and discuss!
When I was younger, I got scared to talking to the Hidden Vek guard at the front of the door and essentially got stuck on Tarris for about a two or so years. When I got a bit older, I was able to ask if I could see the boss, thinking it start a fight or a game over and I was surprised when I was able to move the story along. Child me was a very weird, I know.
Totally understandable! When I was little I used to get scared of the enemies in the second home world of Spyro the Dragon lol
I played this as a young teen and remember getting stuck on Taris. I can't remember exactly what I got stuck on, but I remember getting frustrated by how long it took to travel between the upper and lower city.
The title is where I learned that some people actually skip Taris!
I, too, have been playing Kotor since 2003 and I love this video. The editing, the points - all well made & well done. You should totally do one about Kotor II!
Thank you! Kotor II is definitely on the list!
Subscribed for a Peragus II video in the future
I enjoy both openings as they both establish themes and tone nicely
"...Carth Onasi, a man with an unusual yet captivating cadence..." I see what you did there
i dont get it :/
What I like most about both games is the social commentary they present and philosophical questions we're faced with throughout. Taris does this so well with the brutal depiction of the upper, lower and undercity as social classes. It might be my favourite planet
Do people hate Taris? Personally I loved it. What we all hate is Peragus station.
Amen brother
I love peragus, it had Alien vibes that I was 100% for. It does drag a bit, but so does taris.
@@steveng6721 I like the story bits and the atmosphere, but it drags for way too long, and unlike Taris, it's a desolate station, meaning you don't get to talk to anyone, no side missions, no vendors and you only have two companions. It's like they tried to cram the entire tutorial into the Endar Spiral.
Subbed within literally 10 seconds because that intro of "You wake on a ship you don't remember boarding... " was spot on
Thank you so much! I was hoping that line would land with Kotor fans!
taris is my second favorite planet in the entire game. I didn’t even realize people hated it, it’s so much fun!! KOTOR 2 starting planets on the other hand.. I could live without Telos and Peragus.
Peragus is alright from the perspective of solving the mystery and piecing together the narrative. Telos could have been cut out or heavily trimmed.
I can't believe people don't like Taris. I always loved exploring it and going through all of the missions. And there are a lot of hilariously evil options you can take in Taris that I always enjoy taking
I still remember being psyched when I found the galaxy Droid Easter egg that allowed me to go back to Taris. Even though I couldn't go back to the ship and had to go back to where I had last saved, it felt really good to get some revenge on all of the Sith and Rakghouls that gave me a problem early on before I became a Jedi. It was definitely cathartic.
Honestly Taris is my favorite planet in the first game. It’s the largest and feels like it has the most varied content. I also love Peragus from The Sith Lords for its mood. To me the problem is Dantooine and Telos. You complete the first tutorial planet and then are forced into another one immediately after before you’re free to go. Not only that but imo they’re much less interesting
This is entirely it! Perfect.
Taris is one of the best starting zones in any RPG, and it really makes the eventual aquisition of a lightsabre and jedi powers feel earned.
Taris is a great example of an excellent starting level/planet for all the reasons you mentioned & more. It gets the players introduced to the lore in a way that feels organic, sets the tone of the game perfectly & pushes the narrative forward. It would be ludicrous to ever recomend skipping it.
When I first played this as a kid I got way too connected to the janitor at the alien apartments and was devastated when Taris was blown up. It really hit me to see genocide on that level.
And, to me, it didn't matter how horrible the rich were to aliens. Justice required they be reigned in - not murdered. And I think this absolutely encapsulates some of our current reality.
When I played this game as a kid, I would just run around Taris for hours and take in the atmosphere. Could never skip it. I still play through this gem of a game at least once a year and i HAVE to do all the quests
So glad that I stumbled across your channel (praise be the algorithm). Appreciate you sharing your thoughts on Taris. I'll admit when I first played KOTOR I thought it was a waste of time....but when I revisited it later I enjoyed it so much more. Glad you were able to explain why in this video!
Welcome to the channel! Praise be the algorithm indeed! Thank you for your support! Totally understandable that Taris can be a source of frustration.
I've never once skipped or wanted to skip Taris. Also good on you for choosing objectively the best head.
How thoughtful this video essay was is impressive and that it didn’t overly summarize the game like some ‘analyses’ on UA-cam do was a breath of fresh air. The connection to literary development was superb! I just subscribed, looking forward to your future content
Thank you so much! I really enjoy figuring out the concepts at work behind games stories, I’m so happy it makes for a fun video!
Please do more of these! I loved your style of video and you talking about Kotor. It would be cool to see you make videos about more bioware games!
I just found this channel from this video and I like your style of the animated character in like an apartment setup lol. Taris was my second favorite planet from KOTOR. Only behind Dantooine because I love the peaceful farmland vibe
People forget you can stay at level 2 until you get the jedi upgrade then get more force powers and change your class focus then.
It's a pain to beat the Mando gladiator guy at lvl 2, but at least it gives you a use for all the grenades you've picked up.
I’ve always liked Taris and was surprised when I found out people didn’t
It’s a tutorial planet, sure, but it almost knows that it is? There’s always something you can do if you get bored.
Taris is designed to give the player two different opinions of it depending on the choice we are forced to make later in the game.
Spoiler below.
For those who embrace the darkside and end up killing off the useless weaker characters, Taris is viewed as a waste of time until we get our Jedi powers. For those who choose the lightside, Taris is viewed as a great time that we got to know some friends and it serves as a motivation to stop Darth Malik because he killed off all the friends we made along the way.
You get sick of Taris because its the most replayed part of the game, being first. But it's really quite solid and the buildup to saving Bastila is great. And it ends in one of the very few actually depicted orbital bombardments in media. If you gave KOTOR the FF7 remake treatment, Taris could be an entire game.
Also I love that the whole Battle Meditation is due to the author Timothy Zahn rationalizing why the superior Imperial fleet fled Endor after the Emperor's death - he'd been using the ability and when it suddenly ended, their morale broke.
Sabre Interactive is working on a remake. It's in developmental hell, though. There's been very little updates surrounding it, since Aspyr lost the project. I honestly take that as a good sign, personally.
I'd love to listen to an hour long break down of Peragus/Telos and Kotor 2
Full stop, I'd take Taris/Dantooine any day of the week over Peragus/Telos. Telos felt so empty and boring, to an absurd degree.
Taris is one of those places that you kinda start to appreciate over time. Do I think it goes on a bit longer than it should? Yeah kinda. But it still does the job of getting you prepped for everything afterwards.
How have more people not seen your videos? your art is amazing!
I love Taris. I have never had a problem with it, even when I was 16 back in '03. It sets up the story and shows how evil Malak is.
Awesome, a fellow Taris fan!
Hot take. Taris is my favorite planet
I'm with you. Granted I only replayed KotOR like four times, but it's still such a neat start. If the entire game was set on Taris I honestly wouldn't mind.
ITS SO GOOD
For me, Taris was one of my favourites. I think in 2004 this was my first experience in a RPG within the Star Wars universe and I honestly found the planet super informative and immersive. I really enjoyed the slow burn and build up.
Taris is more engaging than Kashyk. There's barely anything to do on Kashykk that isn't related to the main quest. There's a couple Czerka goons to assist or kill, there's the monster hunt which is basically a linear path where you tap interact, there's the mando hunt, and that's about. That part of the game is *HARD* carried by Zalbaar's interractions with people and the implications, all things that the game *NEVER* capitalizes on, and of course, *JOLEE BINDO*
Taris has more interactivity, more responsiveness to your player choices. Because you're such a low level and don't have your jedi powers *EVERY* fight is interesting, you have such limited resources that you can't just force your way through it. Taris also some *REALLY* good fucking loot that you can get *REALLY* early and use *THROUGHOUT* the planet. You can get Bendak's Blaster like, 30mins in and that gun will last you literally the whole game if you chose. There's also the echani double blade there, a fantastic early game double weapon, Missions Vibroblade is god tier at that point for duel wielders and single swordsman alike.
Taris' problem isn't that it's a tutorial. Taris' problem is that you never get to go *back*
You *never* get to follow up. The problem with Taris is that while your decisions on Taris matter for Taris, the decisions on Taris don't matter to *you.* If you found all the items exclusive to Taris and got all the credits and XP you get from the side missions as a payout in some loot crate on the Ebon Hawk the galaxy wouldn't know the difference, the characters wouldn't know the difference, the *story* wouldn't know the difference. Taris' problem is that you don't closure for any good that you do, you don't face any repurcussions for the evil that you do -- meaning on repeat playthroughs you have *ZERO* reason to engage with the world outside of its ability to feed you resources.
Imagine if instead of functionally destroying Taris, Malak just devastates the planet. After your second star map you get informed that Taris is in turmoil, the republic is trying to land but the planetary defenses were engaged some time during the bombardment and are shooting down any ship not listed within a short list of scheduled arrivals, and since Malak's blockade prevented anyone from leaving, the only ships who might have been able to come and go were locked on the planet, and destroyed, when Malak razed it... all except the Ebon Hawk, Davik's personal ship, which has free admittance to the planet, naturally.
The surface of Taris is in total chaos. There are rioting, desperate people everywhere and *YOU* have the only way off world. You land at a port not too far from your old apartment. People in the area come to check it out and your port encounter isnt some goon asking for a docking fee, it's desperate people begging, *demanding* you take them on your ship. Accommodating them would amount to you losing a few credits for the cost of ferrying these people home, but, you get some lightside points and can do some interactions with potential friends, family, and criminals on the planet as it relates to people. You can choose who to save, what to charge. Do you rescue the racist nobles who now have not even money to give you? Do you extort the impoverished aliens who're desperate to escape the chaos, even when they've come to benefit the most from the looting? You can touch in with the Hutts, the gladiators, the gangs, the dancers and Davik's slaves. Did you give the underdwellers the map to paradise? Did you doom them to an eternity in the dark? Your decisions will affect whether they're there or not when you return. Did you leave the Beks in charge? They've taken in strays best as they can but they're *CHARGING* people for protection now, all as an upkeep cost for keeping their gang functioning, meanwhile the Volkers arent charging anybody anything, if you want protection you join the gang, simple as, then you and some of your fellows go out and rob and steal whatever, it's a dirty racket but it doesnt feel as extortive. Volkers don't discriminate between whoever was rich or poor. The Beks want to LEAVE Taris, the Volkers want to use Taris to trap MORE people here.
And it's all up to you to decide. This impact could have *DOUBLE* the value if you return after finding out the big twist. Knowing that it was *REVAN* who drove the Exchange from Taris, who *SAVED* not just Johani, but *ALL* the would-be slaves when they arrived, and of course, that his apprentice Malak was the one who came back and *DESTROYED* it? That's powerful narrative fuel.
Thank you for this video!! Seeing Taris for the first time as a kid changed gaming and story telling for me. Wonderful thoughts!
You’re welcome! I’m so happy you enjoyed the video! And Taris!
I'd be curious to hear your opinion on Peragus in Kotor 2. I'm in the camp that loves the Endar Spire and Taris but find Peragus and Telos such a slog to get through. Great vid btw!
Really interesting video. I played KoTOR upon release and have replayed it a few times over the years and in all those years I had no idea that people didn’t like Taris. From my first play through, it always stood out as a distinct highlight of the game to me and I felt that there was a real sense of tragedy when the planet was destroyed and rendered unvisitable. Thanks !
Hey, love the vid , I’m old dad now, but grew up playing this in my early years, formed much of my curiosity and love of various genres. Super happy to see people still talking about this amazing games
Thanks for leaving us such a treat ❤
Thank you so much! I’m glad you enjoyed the video!
Omg "influence gained: kreia" was amazing😂
i finally played kotor the other day, and sadly i was spoiled already about the major plot twist. still, the moment was emotional enough that it drove me to go from light side to dark side.
Man I’m happy across this. Subscribed. The info presented, the production and the random jokes/ references. Happy I came across this. I’d love to see a video on Kotor 2. Especially since it’s even more complex.
Thank you so much! I’ve definitely got KOTOR 2 on my list! I’m really looking forward to delving into that game, especially since, unsurprisingly, I really like the Peragus section. I really want to give that project a good amount of time for the analysis and writing stages. This video may have been a tad rushed on my part…
Happy 21 years (plus a few days) anniversary for Kotor! Glad this vid came up on my main page :)
As a kid I wasn’t a fan because you want to get the story going but as an adult I appreciate the two starting levels for both games. Peragus is a bit more depressing simply because you’re stuck on a abandoned base in space, but that sets the tone for the second game, where everything after the Mandalorian and Jedi Civil Wars resulted in this feeling of unease and the Jedi being decimated so it makes sense as a starting level and the tones are very different in both games. The first one is almost plucky and hopeful with the Republic and the Sith being at a stalemate to the point where there is an uneasy balance, planets like Manaan give you an example and the game ends hopeful and triumphant but left in this feeling of unease carried over into the next game due to the destruction of the order and the Jedi being seemingly wiped out so it makes sense as a starting level and the tones are very different in both games. I think both games are very well constructed and provide the perfect set up, I love walking the top of Taris upper city and I feel on edge in the underground and that’s how it should be and you should always take full advantage of the training and XP available in those levels by doing every side mission.
There are two types of gamers - those who read every word and check every dialogue option and those who skip everything until they get to the big booms and get to stabby stab the bad guys. The former love Taris, the latter hate it.
I've spent so many hours on Taris. I thought it was so immersive and fun to explore and discover the secrets within
I always loved Taris. The world building and content present in a tutorial world is crazy. Honestly the lore of Taris was more interesting than Manaan or Dantooine.
I found your channel recently, and really appreciated this video. Taris was formative for me, as KotOR was my first RPG. It offers enough flavor, intrigue, and expansion on the story that I never feel that it's a waste of time. I loved your thoughtful outlook, and would love to hear more from you.
I stumbled upon this video via the youtube algorithm gods and it's been such a blast
Who hates Taris? It was such a unique experience and the storyline is fantastic
Taris is probably the most important planet of the game - it gives the player a planet to get immersed in.
The arena, the pazaak tournament, the pod racing, the complex storyline that loops and overlaps within itself! Then it’s ripped away. Leaving the player feeling emotional loss.
It’s also the planet that all repeat players should skip.
There's a Pazaak Tournament!? Where!?
I do skip taris in replays typically, but God I love the arena
I really enjoyed this video essay! I like your analysis on the plot importance of Taris, I hadn't realized previously just how much thematic setup for the rest of the story happens in that planet, aside from introducing the majority of the party members, so thanks for making this video!
Thank you so much for watching! I’m super glad you enjoyed it!
Just started the video, but I never understood the Taris hate. It is my favorite part of the game. Thematically it fits well with the game’s story that you woke up with basically no memory and thrust into this major conflict. And it’s the only time for the remainder of the game you actually need to strategize combat instead of just plowing through with force powers and lightsabers.
As a kid the only computer we had was in my moms bedroom, I can’t even imagine how many times she had to hear the intro to this game while trying to like read or watch tv lol
I was just a kid playing KOTOR and Taris was basically most the game for me until I got older and eventually made it further in the game
Just wait till Jedi Outcast where you dont become a jedi until 3 levels in
I don’t hate taris, I hate that after getting off taris I have a SECOND TUTORIAL PLANET I have to do to play the rest of the game
I absolutely love Taris. I like that you play as a non-force user and you have to be way more strategic with your credits, usable items, and equipment. I also love the portrayal of a backwards society where the upper class are snobby and the lower class citizens live in their shadow. I think it’s pretty unique in the Star Wars universe.
Great video, loved the content😊
There is an entertaining strategic element to being a non-force user in the Taris section! Thanks for your support!
I hadn't realized that I wanted a more in-depth look at Taris until your video popped up. This was really well written, presented and produced, and I definitely subscribed for more!
great breakdown. It's always nice to see this old game get some love.
I'd love to see more such videos, as well as videos on KotOR2.
as a person who fell in love with Taris since I was a child: THANK YOU, I NEEDED IT!!!!
Influence Lost: Kreia *and* a Pathologic reference within five minutes of each other? Yes, this video is perfect already, no notes
I still mourn for Taris
I never really hated Taris. There were some times where i did wanna be able to skip it. But I never dreaded it like people seem to.
Canderous Ordo is the GOAT. Loved taking him on every mission.
As someone who is far beyond 11 playthroughs you nailed it.
Its amazing worldbuilding and environmental storytelling. Its also very tedious when youve done it a million times.
But can you explain why the rest of the game is less tedious/repetitive on an 11th playthrough? I'm a sucker for replaying a good tutorial so I'm more than ready to be wrong here, but I just don't see which of the "weaker on a reply" elements of Taris don't apply equally to the rest of the game.
1hour of explaining why Taris is great?
You're amazing xD
In retrospect, when you add the retcons and extra meta KOTOR 2 loads in, Taris becomes even better. Revan was considered the best of the Jedi system for that era; conscripted in infancy, psychologically and physically melted down to be forged into the Jedi's ultimate tool. And remember their master was KREIA. I figured Kreia was going to give the Jedi what they wanted in the same way a certain Mr. Morden did. Oh, you want the ultimate Jedi - strong with the Force, great at saber fighting, says all the right words, performs the right actions, and doesn't get attached? Okay, you will totally get that.
All those many teachers Revan had? Totally in the vein of Kreia's idea of "find people, take all you can learn or use from them, and then cast them aside." The Jedi figured this was the exemplary "non-attachment" and perfect Jedi creation but what they made was...well, a monster. Someone who was probably never "Light sided" at all! They were pure power and pure image. People saw what they wanted to see in Revan, and it was all by design. Anyone and everyone was just another tool to advance the goal; whether it be thanking a Master and moving on, deliberately killing off the people loyal to the Republic and not Revan's cult of personality at Malachor, or discarding the final companion by severing Malak's jaw and turning him into a subordinate and enemy. And that leads where? Well, a shot to the back.
So after that, and the reprogramming and all that, Revan gets to be something they never were - an ordinary person. It's a telling choice from Bioware that the highest alignment scores are NOT on the Jedi. The characters with the highes connection to goodness? Carth and Mission; ordinary people doing what good they can in a world where they're not all that powerful. (With some added meta that Carth's home planet of Telos has a SERIOUSLY fucked up and unequal relationship with the Jedi) And now that you are not Big Powerful Sorcerer, but just a Person, what wlll you be? Even more to the point. the game on Taris forces you to lean on your companions (especially if you metagame and save your leveling for Dantooine), a dependence and connection that Kreia would loathe, but it certainly drives home the point.
And I'm with you. I even modded my game so that my character can express great reluctance at being trained. It's still a "but thou must," but the character in my head is miserable as a Jedi. It's power, sure, but it's only the power to end life and destroy. Not to heal or to bring life into the universe.
You described mass effect as fan fic of kotor. You have my sub
Very good work in this video. Others have definitely done a lot of great analysis of KOTOR's legacy to narrative-focused games, but I think this essay definitely benefits from being so focused on just Taris because it's so important even if it's overlooked by so many.
I would love to see someone go into this much depth defending Paragus from the sequel
Do the rest of Kotor. Go through the levels. Make a meme of it. I’d watch tf out of it.
I love the editing, explanation of complex ideas, and just overall video quality. Plus this is one of my favorite games. Good job!
Carth fighting in the background while you’re trying to chat with Canderous is the epitome of this game hahahaha it brought back so many memories playing this as a kid. Could not stop laughing hahaha
there's a quest in the old republic mmo where you find out what happened to those people in the undercity that you gave directions to their promised land. it's uh. it's not cheerful. but it also adds a lot to the taris narrative
very much enjoyed this analysis, i'll have to play the game again soon with a save editor so i can redistribute points after making the jedi upgrade
I really liked Taris for exactly these reasons. I thought the story there was really well told and interesting. I'm also all for starting out small and insignificant to create a wider range in the experience of growing stronger and the stakes rising greater over the course of the game.
This is a phenomenal essay -- I really can't overstate how well thought-out your analysis is. Kotor was the first real video game I played (when I was 7 lol), and I credit it with sparking my love of writing and narrative. Even now during a replay, I get chills hearing the Upper City theme. Thank you for distilling the story so perfectly and reminding me why this game is so special
The storycrafting for both Kotor games was absolutely legendary. Something we haven’t seen even in the Jedi survivor and fallen order games. Nothing will top Revan’s ultimate story and the impact he had on generations of both the Jedi and Sith. It was Revan who invented the sith’s rule of two which Darth Bane discovered when he found Revan’s holocron on Rohan. He’s been an inspiration for all Jedi who fight against impossible odds no matter your past. He was a gifted Jedi knight who was a savior turned Sith Lord a conqueror, He once again turned Jedi knight and became a hero, before being captured for 300 years and becoming separated via the force and ultimately becoming a villain. He was all things, and there are those who would say he was also nothing. However, he never stood alone.
The Endar Spire is the tutorial level
Explains looting and equipping Check
Explains swapping teammates Check
Explains stealth Check
Shows how different methods can be used to move forward Check
I only played kotor at my friend's house a few times til I got older and was able to finally figure out the games name and buy it myself. Taris was all I got to play til I was 15, so I'm weirdly nostalgic to it. While it's a bit slow, I still think it's super exciting
The acapella menu theme won me over SUBSCRIBED