Meanwhile enjoy Major crushing this wifi tournament as Ganondorf. Footage is from a Nintendo online qualifying tournament. Ganondorf so deserves to be better feelsbadman
I'll insist that Ganondorf's design just doesn't work. His best performance was when he was literally a carbon copy of Captain Falcon, and when he was decloned he went downhill since then. The best they could do as a start is to just make him fully unique, and not having the limitation of some moves being Falcon's, so his design can work.
A 4% difference is actually fuckin' huge in an online game where there millions of players. Dont listen to Sakurai on this, if you were playing a moba, picking 47% winrate character would be viewed as throwing and a 47% WR player is absolute trash.
It's an achievement for the amount of characters for sure but without specifics on what they are grading exactly its tricky to take this 4% difference as legit even if its massive lol.
@@ShintaSmash Yes that's true, competivelythe difference would be even greater. It's baffling to think that they would get balance results in random factored environnements. Than I would assume that "get good" comment must've been targeted at casuals.
The difference is these pvp fighting games techs are more mechanics based, whereas MOBAs techs are mostly knowledge based. Yes there is some overlap of knowledge like matchups in smash and mechanics in MOVAs. But high level game play in either genre SOUNDS different, like when you hear someone playing on their [controller/m&k]. So while your point is good, it rests on the assumption that win rates disparities in MOBAs communicate equivalent information to win rates in fighting games, which is not a good assumption, because the tech for each genre is different. In rocket league, it’s almost entirely based on mechanical ability with some knowledge base to not make dumb decisions. Everyone “prefers” octane hit boxes, but any car hit box is perfectly viable, because mechanical ability is the great equalizer in games where mechanical ability is the main gameplay vessel.
You know, that's a good point. I was skeptical at first but with the example you gave about Bayonetta, I think that proves that where the development team gets info about balance is not the tournaments, it's in online play. Ironic, considering Sakurai doesn't consider online to be a good fit for Smash (though to be fair, neither the tournaments, he only sees Smash fitting for parties, but since he's unable to go to everyone's houses to see Smash gameplay he uses online results instead to balance). The only way tournaments are taken into account is if Nintendo sponsors said tournaments but...yeah, good luck with that. Nintendo is pretty much in it's own bubble, external factors almost never matter (unless it's a fan-game of course).
@@ShintaSmash to be fair, it was sakurai who implemented some competitive friendly features in the game,. knowing how much nintendo "likes" the competitive scene (sarcasm), with sakurai gone they more likely would turn the game into a true mario party levels of free for alls.
The pro players probably only follow the guidelines Nintendo gives them when it comes to what character needs a change and what to do (buff/nerf). The fact that Pikachu was pretty much untouched for all of Ultimate proves that the team either doesn't watch tournaments or can't balance stuff based on them like with online battles.
@@lucaantinori4834 Pikachu being untouched was a good decision. This character isn't overwhelmingly popular or successful, but he's not non-existent in tournaments either. He's very well-balanced, objectively, despite what ESAM&Shinymark might say.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 Not saying he isn't well-balanced. But early in Ultimate's life, and even until the end, anyone expect a nerf to Pikachu. The fact that Inkling got both buffed and nerfed when Pikachu was left untouched should say quite a lot about balancing. Especially since Inkling's changes, let's be honest, were meant for Elite Smash.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 granted alot of people at the start of ult thought pikachu was pretty mid compared to pichu. nintendo more than likely only listened to those japanese pros for a small amount of time when the game first came out just in case they need to make an emergency patch.
@@lucaantinori4834This is the correct take, it's why Puff was never buffed in 4. They simply did it out of spite when Hbox (Melee player) taunted on Reggie's Ryu.
It’s legitimately so stupid and yet so typical of Nintendo to think that the least competitively substantial statistics could be so easily interpreted to understand the balance of their games. There’s a reason that athletic sports have been developing for 80+ years and track a ridiculous number of advanced statistics in order to vaguely interpret a player, position or play styles effect on the outcome of matches. Just maxed out creativity with minimal logic and execution.
This is why I asserted to my friends that Sakurai and his team were NOT watching the comp scene as much as they thought. The team balanced through comp moments outright showcased to Sakurai through his attendence at certain tournies, yes, but other than that? Not really. Instead, they used the flawed online metrics primarily. I agree a fun game for casuals is priority in something like Smash, but I will never again call this game well balanced. It WAS well balanced before certain DLC. A balanced game cannot exist when those DLC outliers exists within it. No amount of Sakurai's online win-rate gaslighting will change that.
@@Chaos007X crazy thing is the items stages final smashes assist trophies and different modes are what make it fun for casuals anyway and they don’t care about finite balance of things
You know the competitive scene can make it's own rules, but they seem to be too proud or idk scared to ban characters. So maybe instead of complaining to nintendo who doesn't care about that scene, complain to tournament hosts
the competitive scene already banned like 80% of every smash title's features already, whats so different about banning characters? they fear alienating some players? they already alienated themselves by playing under those rules.
It doesn’t make sense that the team has access to the win rate %, but doesn’t take into account the difference in pick rate % over time. Everything you cited feels at best circumstantial, not necessarily wrong but probably very far away from what actual goes on in balance team’s mind
Competitive players specifically exploit the games mechanics to get an edge to win. Hence why I feel they should be paid more attention to when making adjustments. I don't see the need to gut characters like Pichu or nerf DeDeDe just cause elite smash for example
@@ShintaSmash Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you're wrong, I just take issue with some statements that make it seem that we definitely know the reason why balance patches got it bad. They /might/ not look at pick rate % over time, but they also might have that information and just ignore it, same result. I agree with the spirit of the video and I think the video is very thoughtful, but what I mean is that in trying to explain why that is, shouldn't resort to overreaching statements that we don't have actual evidence for. Not that it's a serious matter either lol it justs weakens the central argument
I'll insist, Bayonetta was as common to find online in Smash 4 as much as Cloud and that should say quite a lot. If she was still broken in Ultimate's demo then seems that pick-rate didn't matter. Bayonetta was nerfed in Ultimate's demo but it seems that it was mostly to double down the nerf she got in Smash 4 which by itself wasn't truly substantial. If it wasn't for MKLeo, she would've still be broken in Ultimate 1.0.0. We really owe a lot to the former Ultimate king. After the nerf, most Smash 4's Bayos online sucked, lowering the win-rate. So they thought Smash 4 Bayo was OK.
@@lucaantinori4834 My point is that you might be right, and what you say does make sense, but there's no way to know if that's how things actually happened. Balance team might have looked at that and went "nah", or they weighted other stats higher than they should, maybe someone there really likes bayo, idk, multiple factors could be at play here. We just can't frame our hypothesis or most of this as actual evidence on /how/ they got it wrong
I feel like the smahs competetive scene just cannot admit that nintendo does not want smash to be am esport game... All of these rants about the balancing just seem to think that nintendo is trying to make the characters balanced for serious competitive gameplay. Also there are like 80 characters, it is not possible to balance that many to a degree that the competitive scene would be happy about. It seems to be hard in games that just have like 20 caharacters
We know Nintendo doesnt care about esports at this point. They've done a great job at balancing there are just certain things if they watched the competitive scene while doing their balance patches I believe the quality of the game would improve overall. It's something I wish for the next smash game
Hmm… I think this argument is more based on skill ceilings, which is kinda what competitive players reflect, instead of overall balance, which I think online matches represents. Is it wrong that different characters with different mechanics have different skill ceilings but similar balance to the average player? Maybe. I think that’s more an opinion than an objective fact. It’s always satisfying to know you can get better at a character, but sometimes, people like making the most of a character that’s otherwise lacking… and, on the other hand, some people like to pick a playstyle/character and not have to gamble on whether they’re good for tournaments or not. I think comp players are good for revealing obnoxious tech that’s ‘optimal’, which is a great target for patches, but I don’t think they’re the best metric for balance for the average player, since they are not average players. Then, I guess the philosophy is if you should balance a game so that the most possible people have fun with it, or so that the most dedicated can… even then, I think making a priority between the two is subjective…
Honestly what nintendo does for smash is the same as what epic game does for fornite they both pander to the casual players which is why chracters get buffed or debuffed in ultimate and why fornite has an entire season where cars reign supreme. Nintendo and epic games would get along well because they both do not have much respect for the competitive scenes of their games if they could they would get rid of them entirely if it meant making more money.
Capitalism is beautiful sometimes...okay but seriously, at least Smash gives you options, but Fortnite changes are permanent, and if you don't like it, too bad. This is where the "Kirbyism" truly shines.
@@lucaantinori4834 the changes really are not permanent for fornite because than it changes into another season again while for smash it stays the same because there are no more updates so yes and no you still have to deal with changes but that also means that a season of fornite you don’t like will eventually be over unless epic games decides to bring it back.
@@supermariomaker1734 I've expressed myself wrong. What I meant to say is that Smash gives you a lot of options and versatility, and you will never be forced to play in a certain way. With Fortnite though, and because of their FOMO tactics, you're forced to play with stuff that dramatically changes gameplay and then never see that again.
@@lucaantinori4834 agreed that is a big aspect of fornite having to fight the new stuff but than never fight it again it’s kinda of like how in Pokémon certain mons are very dominant but than the next gen they can be total trash or you never see them again because of gamefreak.
@@lucaantinori4834 fortnite does have creative mode that allows users to play the game anyway they want with just about any item that has been in the game with a bunch of different players so in a sense smash and fortnite are the same ya know.
Sakurai deserves a bit more credit for this take. "Echo chamber" isn't the right description, though, it's more like the internet brings out the worst of mob mentality. And competitive tier lists have a bit of a self fulfilling profecy problem. If the character seems good they get more high level representation early on. The best players have a strong drive to win, and they aren't going to waste time on characters that don't at least look good on paper. The META for these characters devolop faster. All the characters perceived low tier only get the players that like to play them, or are out to prove a hot take or something. The proplem is these players don't have winning as their highest priority. This is going to skew the results, and then result based tierlists are in turned skewed. After a looong time, these issues correct themselves....but with sooo many characters its going to take a very long time. This isn’t to say I think gathering data from Elite smash doesn't have it's own problems, but if I were balancing a game as big as Smash had a huge data set to draw from like online play, I'd definately be looking at it as well as looking at competitive play some skepticism.
Because most people (let's just say casual for convenience) is, well, pretty awful at the game, and I'm not even trying to be condescending, I was a casual and have played (and still played) with casuals, where you are considered good if you know how to recover consistently and grab, and in their games there are so many factors to take into account like where and what are they playing? How are they playing? How many people are playing (FFA? Doubles? Singles? Three players?)? Are they playing with items? What items do they have? Are they playing by stocks, time, stamina or what? Etc, and because of that, is just pointless to try to balance the game for them because It will hardly affect the result of a match when there are so many factors to take into account and the level of players is really low and unless the change is like something incredibly big no one is going toncare that Sonic's final smash does 1% more of damage.
@@someoneelse1348 Honestly, this is true. Although balancing for the casual scene isn't wasteful by any means. Even though it doesn't fix anything, at least it makes the experience for them less annoying. Little Mac in casual play was a menace in pretty much any ruleset against casuals in early Smash 4, mainly because his ground game is designed to be overwhelming for the opponets. I hate the nerf but I see why it was made. Another example is Min Min. Despite being focused on ranged combat, she still had honest, yet not awful close-quarters. This was to avoid players who used her to feel pressured if they ever failed to keep their distance. And then we have Steve. If this game was balanced around competitive play, no casual would ever touch Steve since his resource management is too severe. Because of it, the expendable attacks are stronger compared to other moves. Balancing was most likely never meant to be to actually "balance" the game, it was meant to make it fun to play...for casuals at least. In his video, even Sakurai says that push and pull was chosen over actual balance to Ultimate. And thanks to said videos, we know Sakurai isn't stupid. He knows the different rulesets of both casual and competitive players, so he isn't oblivious to competitive balance. He just had different priorities for Ultimate's design.
@@xmalin1 Well, we know thanks to the Direct made on November 1st 2018 that the development team specifically use Elite Smash as reference. Not really equivalent to high elo, but it's something
Meanwhile enjoy Major crushing this wifi tournament as Ganondorf. Footage is from a Nintendo online qualifying tournament. Ganondorf so deserves to be better feelsbadman
They could start by decloning him, it's about time if you ask me, if not little late
I'll insist that Ganondorf's design just doesn't work. His best performance was when he was literally a carbon copy of Captain Falcon, and when he was decloned he went downhill since then. The best they could do as a start is to just make him fully unique, and not having the limitation of some moves being Falcon's, so his design can work.
@@lucaantinori4834 100 percent agree and it’s a shame really
I'm so thankful heavies are bad in this game lol
@@MrTNT49 Imagine they get grab kill buffs like in smash 4
A 4% difference is actually fuckin' huge in an online game where there millions of players. Dont listen to Sakurai on this, if you were playing a moba, picking 47% winrate character would be viewed as throwing and a 47% WR player is absolute trash.
It's an achievement for the amount of characters for sure but without specifics on what they are grading exactly its tricky to take this 4% difference as legit even if its massive lol.
@@ShintaSmash Yes that's true, competivelythe difference would be even greater. It's baffling to think that they would get balance results in random factored environnements. Than I would assume that "get good" comment must've been targeted at casuals.
The difference is these pvp fighting games techs are more mechanics based, whereas MOBAs techs are mostly knowledge based. Yes there is some overlap of knowledge like matchups in smash and mechanics in MOVAs. But high level game play in either genre SOUNDS different, like when you hear someone playing on their [controller/m&k]. So while your point is good, it rests on the assumption that win rates disparities in MOBAs communicate equivalent information to win rates in fighting games, which is not a good assumption, because the tech for each genre is different.
In rocket league, it’s almost entirely based on mechanical ability with some knowledge base to not make dumb decisions. Everyone “prefers” octane hit boxes, but any car hit box is perfectly viable, because mechanical ability is the great equalizer in games where mechanical ability is the main gameplay vessel.
You know, that's a good point. I was skeptical at first but with the example you gave about Bayonetta, I think that proves that where the development team gets info about balance is not the tournaments, it's in online play. Ironic, considering Sakurai doesn't consider online to be a good fit for Smash (though to be fair, neither the tournaments, he only sees Smash fitting for parties, but since he's unable to go to everyone's houses to see Smash gameplay he uses online results instead to balance). The only way tournaments are taken into account is if Nintendo sponsors said tournaments but...yeah, good luck with that. Nintendo is pretty much in it's own bubble, external factors almost never matter (unless it's a fan-game of course).
Im curious what would happen if Sakurai took more of a backseat for the next smash game. Very unlikely but still.
@@ShintaSmash to be fair, it was sakurai who implemented some competitive friendly features in the game,. knowing how much nintendo "likes" the competitive scene (sarcasm), with sakurai gone they more likely would turn the game into a true mario party levels of free for alls.
EE at the end trying not to correct everything they're saying LMAO
ITS SO GOOOOOOOOD LMAO
Coney suffered something similar, he had to filter his words regarding the online functionality of Ultimate during an official online tournament.
@@lucaantinori4834 The North Remembers
I love how you zoom out ee at the end LMAO, we all know what he's thinking lol
🤣🤣 I actually couldn't stop laughing when I first saw this
Didn't we literally have Japanese pros balancing the game at the start of the game, did we forget about this or am I wrong.
The pro players probably only follow the guidelines Nintendo gives them when it comes to what character needs a change and what to do (buff/nerf). The fact that Pikachu was pretty much untouched for all of Ultimate proves that the team either doesn't watch tournaments or can't balance stuff based on them like with online battles.
@@lucaantinori4834 Pikachu being untouched was a good decision. This character isn't overwhelmingly popular or successful, but he's not non-existent in tournaments either. He's very well-balanced, objectively, despite what ESAM&Shinymark might say.
@@legrandliseurtri7495
Not saying he isn't well-balanced. But early in Ultimate's life, and even until the end, anyone expect a nerf to Pikachu. The fact that Inkling got both buffed and nerfed when Pikachu was left untouched should say quite a lot about balancing. Especially since Inkling's changes, let's be honest, were meant for Elite Smash.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 granted alot of people at the start of ult thought pikachu was pretty mid compared to pichu. nintendo more than likely only listened to those japanese pros for a small amount of time when the game first came out just in case they need to make an emergency patch.
@@lucaantinori4834This is the correct take, it's why Puff was never buffed in 4. They simply did it out of spite when Hbox (Melee player) taunted on Reggie's Ryu.
It’s legitimately so stupid and yet so typical of Nintendo to think that the least competitively substantial statistics could be so easily interpreted to understand the balance of their games. There’s a reason that athletic sports have been developing for 80+ years and track a ridiculous number of advanced statistics in order to vaguely interpret a player, position or play styles effect on the outcome of matches. Just maxed out creativity with minimal logic and execution.
This is why I asserted to my friends that Sakurai and his team were NOT watching the comp scene as much as they thought. The team balanced through comp moments outright showcased to Sakurai through his attendence at certain tournies, yes, but other than that? Not really. Instead, they used the flawed online metrics primarily.
I agree a fun game for casuals is priority in something like Smash, but I will never again call this game well balanced. It WAS well balanced before certain DLC. A balanced game cannot exist when those DLC outliers exists within it. No amount of Sakurai's online win-rate gaslighting will change that.
@@Chaos007X crazy thing is the items stages final smashes assist trophies and different modes are what make it fun for casuals anyway and they don’t care about finite balance of things
@@ShintaSmashThey nerfed DDD in 4 because he was too good on For Fun LOL
They would have never nerfed ZSS if they didn't pay attention to tournaments (in Japan)
This, anyone who believes sakurai and the gang are fools, they've routinely lied in the past.
Can Somebody tell me what is the name of the BGM at the beginning of the video??
Thanks.
Im actually unsure its from Sakurai's youtube channel about game design
out of all the things I expected from this video, the showmaker copypasta was not one of them.
4:53 lmaooo you make great videos bro 😂
I heard sonic can break the Wi-Fi sound barrier, where lag doesn't affect them. But somehow people can't even with such a handicap lol
You know the competitive scene can make it's own rules, but they seem to be too proud or idk scared to ban characters. So maybe instead of complaining to nintendo who doesn't care about that scene, complain to tournament hosts
the competitive scene already banned like 80% of every smash title's features already, whats so different about banning characters? they fear alienating some players? they already alienated themselves by playing under those rules.
It doesn’t make sense that the team has access to the win rate %, but doesn’t take into account the difference in pick rate % over time. Everything you cited feels at best circumstantial, not necessarily wrong but probably very far away from what actual goes on in balance team’s mind
Competitive players specifically exploit the games mechanics to get an edge to win. Hence why I feel they should be paid more attention to when making adjustments. I don't see the need to gut characters like Pichu or nerf DeDeDe just cause elite smash for example
@@ShintaSmash Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you're wrong, I just take issue with some statements that make it seem that we definitely know the reason why balance patches got it bad. They /might/ not look at pick rate % over time, but they also might have that information and just ignore it, same result. I agree with the spirit of the video and I think the video is very thoughtful, but what I mean is that in trying to explain why that is, shouldn't resort to overreaching statements that we don't have actual evidence for. Not that it's a serious matter either lol it justs weakens the central argument
@@hernique ah I see whatcha mean makes sense. I guess it falls more on my opinion instead of actual fact. Appreciate the response
I'll insist, Bayonetta was as common to find online in Smash 4 as much as Cloud and that should say quite a lot. If she was still broken in Ultimate's demo then seems that pick-rate didn't matter.
Bayonetta was nerfed in Ultimate's demo but it seems that it was mostly to double down the nerf she got in Smash 4 which by itself wasn't truly substantial.
If it wasn't for MKLeo, she would've still be broken in Ultimate 1.0.0. We really owe a lot to the former Ultimate king.
After the nerf, most Smash 4's Bayos online sucked, lowering the win-rate.
So they thought Smash 4 Bayo was OK.
@@lucaantinori4834 My point is that you might be right, and what you say does make sense, but there's no way to know if that's how things actually happened. Balance team might have looked at that and went "nah", or they weighted other stats higher than they should, maybe someone there really likes bayo, idk, multiple factors could be at play here. We just can't frame our hypothesis or most of this as actual evidence on /how/ they got it wrong
I feel like the smahs competetive scene just cannot admit that nintendo does not want smash to be am esport game... All of these rants about the balancing just seem to think that nintendo is trying to make the characters balanced for serious competitive gameplay. Also there are like 80 characters, it is not possible to balance that many to a degree that the competitive scene would be happy about. It seems to be hard in games that just have like 20 caharacters
We know Nintendo doesnt care about esports at this point. They've done a great job at balancing there are just certain things if they watched the competitive scene while doing their balance patches I believe the quality of the game would improve overall. It's something I wish for the next smash game
Hmm… I think this argument is more based on skill ceilings, which is kinda what competitive players reflect, instead of overall balance, which I think online matches represents. Is it wrong that different characters with different mechanics have different skill ceilings but similar balance to the average player? Maybe. I think that’s more an opinion than an objective fact. It’s always satisfying to know you can get better at a character, but sometimes, people like making the most of a character that’s otherwise lacking… and, on the other hand, some people like to pick a playstyle/character and not have to gamble on whether they’re good for tournaments or not.
I think comp players are good for revealing obnoxious tech that’s ‘optimal’, which is a great target for patches, but I don’t think they’re the best metric for balance for the average player, since they are not average players. Then, I guess the philosophy is if you should balance a game so that the most possible people have fun with it, or so that the most dedicated can… even then, I think making a priority between the two is subjective…
This game isnt balance at all when you got steve and kazuya pythra, even terry.
That’s what I’ve been saying
Honestly what nintendo does for smash is the same as what epic game does for fornite they both pander to the casual players which is why chracters get buffed or debuffed in ultimate and why fornite has an entire season where cars reign supreme. Nintendo and epic games would get along well because they both do not have much respect for the competitive scenes of their games if they could they would get rid of them entirely if it meant making more money.
Capitalism is beautiful sometimes...okay but seriously, at least Smash gives you options, but Fortnite changes are permanent, and if you don't like it, too bad. This is where the "Kirbyism" truly shines.
@@lucaantinori4834 the changes really are not permanent for fornite because than it changes into another season again while for smash it stays the same because there are no more updates so yes and no you still have to deal with changes but that also means that a season of fornite you don’t like will eventually be over unless epic games decides to bring it back.
@@supermariomaker1734
I've expressed myself wrong. What I meant to say is that Smash gives you a lot of options and versatility, and you will never be forced to play in a certain way.
With Fortnite though, and because of their FOMO tactics, you're forced to play with stuff that dramatically changes gameplay and then never see that again.
@@lucaantinori4834 agreed that is a big aspect of fornite having to fight the new stuff but than never fight it again it’s kinda of like how in Pokémon certain mons are very dominant but than the next gen they can be total trash or you never see them again because of gamefreak.
@@lucaantinori4834 fortnite does have creative mode that allows users to play the game anyway they want with just about any item that has been in the game with a bunch of different players so in a sense smash and fortnite are the same ya know.
Statistically speaking, you probably are pretty bad at Smash.
Got that right
This is probably just bad player cope but soras three move combo is fuckin bs
Sakurai deserves a bit more credit for this take. "Echo chamber" isn't the right description, though, it's more like the internet brings out the worst of mob mentality. And competitive tier lists have a bit of a self fulfilling profecy problem. If the character seems good they get more high level representation early on. The best players have a strong drive to win, and they aren't going to waste time on characters that don't at least look good on paper. The META for these characters devolop faster. All the characters perceived low tier only get the players that like to play them, or are out to prove a hot take or something. The proplem is these players don't have winning as their highest priority. This is going to skew the results, and then result based tierlists are in turned skewed. After a looong time, these issues correct themselves....but with sooo many characters its going to take a very long time.
This isn’t to say I think gathering data from Elite smash doesn't have it's own problems, but if I were balancing a game as big as Smash had a huge data set to draw from like online play, I'd definately be looking at it as well as looking at competitive play some skepticism.
Is this why Kirby is so ass
Sakurai wants Kirby to be the worst
Probably has something to do with it. A decent Kirby can trick out a lot of players online
@@PMT433
Brawl Kirby isn't that bad, but it's true that Online Kirby is a menace and a half for the casual audience.
@@ShintaSmash
It reminds me of how Little Mac was nerfed in Smash 4 because casual players couldn't fight him.
@@lucaantinori4834 really I totally forgot about that
why balance for a small amount of the playerbase rather then the most people
So in this scenario would Lil Mac get nerfed because of the casual scene or not nerfed at all cause he isn't good in the competitive scene?
Because most people (let's just say casual for convenience) is, well, pretty awful at the game, and I'm not even trying to be condescending, I was a casual and have played (and still played) with casuals, where you are considered good if you know how to recover consistently and grab, and in their games there are so many factors to take into account like where and what are they playing? How are they playing? How many people are playing (FFA? Doubles? Singles? Three players?)? Are they playing with items? What items do they have? Are they playing by stocks, time, stamina or what? Etc, and because of that, is just pointless to try to balance the game for them because It will hardly affect the result of a match when there are so many factors to take into account and the level of players is really low and unless the change is like something incredibly big no one is going toncare that Sonic's final smash does 1% more of damage.
@@someoneelse1348
Honestly, this is true. Although balancing for the casual scene isn't wasteful by any means. Even though it doesn't fix anything, at least it makes the experience for them less annoying.
Little Mac in casual play was a menace in pretty much any ruleset against casuals in early Smash 4, mainly because his ground game is designed to be overwhelming for the opponets. I hate the nerf but I see why it was made.
Another example is Min Min. Despite being focused on ranged combat, she still had honest, yet not awful close-quarters. This was to avoid players who used her to feel pressured if they ever failed to keep their distance.
And then we have Steve. If this game was balanced around competitive play, no casual would ever touch Steve since his resource management is too severe. Because of it, the expendable attacks are stronger compared to other moves.
Balancing was most likely never meant to be to actually "balance" the game, it was meant to make it fun to play...for casuals at least. In his video, even Sakurai says that push and pull was chosen over actual balance to Ultimate.
And thanks to said videos, we know Sakurai isn't stupid. He knows the different rulesets of both casual and competitive players, so he isn't oblivious to competitive balance. He just had different priorities for Ultimate's design.
Because the average player is awful at the game. I can't think of a single game that even prioritizes low elo data
@@xmalin1
Well, we know thanks to the Direct made on November 1st 2018 that the development team specifically use Elite Smash as reference. Not really equivalent to high elo, but it's something