Why Nintendo REALLY Hates Smash Bros
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- Опубліковано 12 січ 2023
- Nintendo has a history of shutting down Smash tournaments causing turmoil in the community, and the last couple months have been no exception. But 𝘸𝘩𝘺 do they do this? Especially when they put on their own tournaments for other games. What's going on here? This video should shed some light on Nintendo's seemingly odd behavior.
📃 Research Links
The Smash Brothers: Full Documentary
• The Smash Brothers: Do...
Melee clips
• 25 Minutes of Melee
Why Brawl isn't good
www.ssbwiki.com/Super_Smash_B...
The dark ages of Smash
web.archive.org/web/201607201...
penguinz0 on Nintendo
• Nintendo Is The Worst ...
Sakurai on creating Smash Bros.
• Super Smash Bros. [Ga...
Nintendo's refusal to let MLG livestream Brawl events
gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/...
Sakurai looks back on Melee
sourcegaming.info/2015/06/29/...
Ludwig addresses Smash drama
• Huge Drama in the Smas...
Hungrybox addresses Smash drama
• The Full Drama Behind ... - Ігри
What is your favorite memory playing Smash?
Losing.
Playing with my brother on the Wii probably
Me my bro and cousins getting demolished by my bros pit smash ball attack on one of brawls custom stages. Shit was hell to dodge but fun.
subspace emissary
Seeing high tier play with Melee for the first time at a LAN center in the summer of 2002. It blew my mind how far the rabbit hole went and made some good friends that summer.
My theory is that in the early days of Melee, Nintendo was open to the idea, but quickly changed their mind after a rep went to a regional smash tournament and almost suffocated from the smell.
lolz
💀😂😂
Kek
I mean you're not wrong
🤮🤮🤮🤮
I’d be interested to see an update to this video with all of the extra details on how Smash World Tour botched their licensing talks and cancelled of their own accord, while the community destroyed Panda Cup of their own free will. But I’ve noticed a lot of the “blame Nintendo” crowd haven’t really made follow-ups to these events when more details came out.
Like that would happen. They would have to admit they are wrong. And the smash community can’t do that
they spported a pedo
@@lunar3055egotistical people are rampant in the community.
I don’t think the smash community understands how unappealing they are to both Nintendo and sponsors needed to run tournaments.
Outside Looking in it seems like their top players do awful things and say awful stuff (the several allegations) don’t take the tournaments seriously when it comes to safety and security (Double Down both Hbox showing up with Covid and the ban nairo sign) and they smell (seriously ban people who don’t wash themselves)
They blame Nintendo for this but they dug their own grave by not taking themselves seriously
facts
Its a battle of Developer Vision vs Player Vision. Nintendo, as extreme as their methods are to make sure their games are loved by everyone, still want to preserve their games from anyone who wish to tarnish the artist's vision. That said, vilifying players for creating something new out of their IPs is not only extreme, but just flat out the wrong people to point the finger at.
Capcom never really envisioned Street Fighter to be this super competitive game as it is now. Yet, Capcom fully endorses the player competition. EVO, Combo Breaker, hell, even they made their own tournament called Capcom Cup.
Nintendo's problem is a cultural one, and that's too big to fix within the span of 5-10 years.
Not really... the upper management could have said "We will take no position yea or nay on Smash Bros. tournaments!" and the problem would have been solved.
@Christopher Kidwell That's just not how things work. It would potentially eat into their bottom line. They have shareholders. Ip protection is legally required of them anyways. They might be a bit extreme but it helps keep their profits up. I think Nintendo is totally reasonable, and I think pirates are totally in the right too. Both can be true.
@@cheeeeezewizzz Not to mention Nintendo as a company has some early-childhood trauma from being ruthlessly sued by MGM over their first Donkey Kong arcade cabinet game. (i.e. "waah they used King Kong without permission")
And that same lawsuit clarified the IP law in a way that could potentially bite themselves in the ass now that they've become that very same giant with half a dozen of the world's most lucrative media franchises.
Its literally a waiting game for a bunch of old senior management people to die.
The only problem is, this is not " the smash community" this is the online American centric smash community that is famous not for skill in a game where skill is dumb, but for being the original example of the incel gaming community, and nobody wants to support that.
I think the beauty of Smash is that you can just pick it up and play it at a party by smashing all the buttons, but you can also get super deep into the mechanics if you want to.
its not really how you play the game, it has those options for a reason,. its about the type of community that eventually grows around that way to play. you can play very seriously with tournament rules in your house or with your friends and be completely fine,. but once people congregate in large numbers and made their events/gatherings public it starts to create a public image around the game, and thats what they're really after.
This was a well made video coming a small channel. As a Competitive Smash player I was hopeful that the Panda Cup was the turning point where Nintendo finally stops attacking the scene. Unfortunately, some dreams just dont come true. Either way, between this and the previous video, I can see this becoming one of my favorite channels
Glad to hear you enjoyed the video! Super disappointed about the panda cup situation as well :/
It's already become one of my favorites. I really hope that this channel won't "rest on its laurels" after gaining some popularity as I've seen with other channels. As long as the quality remains the same, I wouldn't mind rewatching these if I got bored.
fuck panda cup and fuck anyone who supports them. 🙂
I play Smash Bros Ultimate together with my cousins from time to time, and it’s such a special experience playing the game so casually that’s hard to replicate when you’re playing to be better at it than everyone else.
It's honestly a detriment in my experience. I stopped playing Ultimate going on two years now because I got caught in the limbo where I wasn't good enough to play at a high level competitively but too good to enjoy playing casually. Add on top of that how I don't really have local friends to play with anymore and you have a unfun combo
@@Rman1228 You can always still play the game by yourself. I still play the game solo every so often.
@@Rman1228 You don’t have to quit, you can always revisit Smash Bros Ultimate anytime you want on your own.
@@benmalsky9834 very true! I still pop the game in to test controllers so maybe I can come back in every once and awhile
@@Rman1228 Omg bro!!! Same here!
Im also stuck between rock and a hard place, so i understand.
Too good for casual and too trash for competitive. No people to play locally with let alone someone with the same level of skill. Its impossible. So i figured, that i can play the game offline against lv.9's.
But even that has lost its novelty. Half the time cpu do nothing but spam and i instantly dont feel like playing again as thats boring af.
They don't hate smash, the community around is whats bothersome to them.
Especially with how many of the pro players keep getting involved with underage minors
@@dunkyking6310 fr. Nintendo already has a very litigious and "stay out of public scrutiny" disposition, add a community with a questionable rep and its no wonder Nintendo wants nothing to do with us.
Im an avid FGC fan and no other community is involved in as much drama and straight up criminal behavior than Smash.
Its no wonder they wanted Panda to function as tard wranglers for the community.
@@Hemestal When SWT Finals got cancelled, I saw multiple videos straight up celebrating it as a 'fuck you' to the Smash community. While I do outright disagree with them, I see where they're coming from.
This is legit the exact reason why I stopped going around the FGC years ago. I love the games but then yeah there's that part.
Can you blame them?
If you've ever met someone serious about Smash Bros, you know why Nintendo is afraid.
I know. I hate competitive players. They act like if they own the game. It's their rules and their comfirt zone: three lives, no items, no hazards, not what makes Super Smash Bros. different from the other fighting games. And if you dare to ask for different settings you're a lesser race casual player. And if you manage to pull a series of victories while following their rules you're either a spammer or your char is OP, or both. And things are going even worse if you chat with them outside the game. They are all like:"Me think this characte should be in the game!" without offering any valid argument besides "because me like it" And you're like:"THESE are the kids I'm losing to?"
I love how many topics you cover and how good your actual points are. Video essays have been sort of wack as of late and it nice to see a channel with some exaggerated swagger
This is a perfect video and im really glad i clicked on it. props on the depth of research, on the way you presented the video, on your voice and the way you articulated it. Youre awesome man
Compare this to competitive Pokémon, where there's been an official competitive format since the late 2000's that's still going strong today alongside an unofficial competitive format that runs on a simulator of thr game's battles. The fact that Pokémon Showdown hasn't been burned to the ground is astonishing.
Great video! I'm 31 and just got back home from hanging out with my 7 and 9 year old nephews who love smash bros on the Nintendo switch. I played a few rounds, but wasn't having fun. I told my sister (their mom) that it feels too complex and I don't really have the want to learn how to play smash bros since I don't have a Nintendo. It's like being in school in order to get the hang of it. I was ready to bring out some Tekken to show some combos 😆
Wait. That doesn't make any sense. You say Smash is too complex, but then you ponder the idea of booting up Tekken? Dude, Tekken is far more advanced than any Smash game ever made! Smash is literally designed to be easier to understand than other fighting games!
@@jakescartoons6045 i don't own a switch. Plus they have a ton of experience since they've unlocked every character. I haven't played smash since the N64 days and none of it feels familiar. They were wrecking me. The Tekken thing is a joke. Implying that I was getting tired of getting whooped. Also these kids were researching combos while I was barely getting the movement mechanics down. This video is discussing how Nintendo likes to make video games easy to pick up and enjoy with all skill sets in mind. I'm agreeing with them that smash bros does not fit that mold and I understand why they don't want to appeal to the competitive players. It can isolate a lot of players from wanting to try it.
Awesome well thought out video. I hope it can go kind of viral like the other one
That last clip was one of my fave moments from the smash doc. Thanks for using that.
That suakuria quote hit me hard at the end but some people can't play games without being competitive and sometimes that means there favorite games
For the love of God, "SAKURAI".
🤬How can you misspell the name of that legend so badly?!
@@christianleon7311 shut up bro my auto correct kept changing it I rewrote my sentence like 7 times
Putting actions of Smash players as "Minor oopsies" is a drastic and dangerous understatement. As someone who played smash competitive smash in that time period it was a serious matter you continued to understate throughout the video
Yeah some of the things a few Smash players were found doing are not just "minor oopsies" at all, and I'm sure Nintendo has definitely caught wind of such things. Has to be a factor in their business decisions.
At least he got the minor part right lmao
It didn't fit with his thesis, so he needed to downplay it. Despite it being the most likely culprit.
It was pretty much an open secret that the pro Smash community was full of pedos. I believe it's the same with the speed running community.
@@rorbot_SMFthe thing is I bet Nintendo knew of this kind of shit before it all blew up in the competitive scenes face.
Its not like all this stuff came out of nowhere and Nintendo just figured out about it with everyone else. These skeletons in the closet had existed for a long time, and anyone even semi regular in the Smash scene could see this kind of community was not safe for minors in general. The way lax attitude with adults drinking and gambling around minors and going to hotel rooms alone with each other or sleeping in hotel rooms together, underage girls and older men didn't matter and it was all normal. And if you said anything about how fucking strange it all was back then you were the one labeled a creep and a weirdo as these grown dudes were getting 15 yr old girls drunk and finger blasting them behind closed doors. I fucking hated the Smash community and knew that shit was gonna blow up in their face eventually and I'm sure Nintendo went to a few tourneys undercover and saw the same kinda shit I saw too. Its not like they were trying to hide it back then BTW, this was all out in the public but back then there was no MeToo movement for dumb underage girls to victimize themselves with after putting themselves in the worst situations imagineable with dudes who barely ever talked to girls.
monkeys paw:
nintendo fully supports the smash community and even puts up massive prize pools for the players
BUT
deodorant becomes mandatory.
I see this as an absolute win
The rare blessed Monkey's Paw.
Reverse monkey paw lol
Cool video.
small point of critique in regards to cuts, i had to go back and pause at 8:22 to read what happened with Panda Cup. Just leave it longer for people to read or vocally sum up what happened before moving on.
Otherwise, keep up the great work!
Isn't it weird he may have tried to not get that brought up?
After a year, the reason is really just jealousy towards Panda Global and the insistence of the OG organizers that wanted things to stay grassroots.
Surprised you actually got it but you nailed it relatively accurately. If you have to understand anything about how japan and older corporate heads run Japanese companies you'd know its simply about control and "Doing it the japanese way" or "the Nintendo way", whether its competitive or not isn't the problem. It's a pride issue. This is also why aside money, why Nintendo will never see eye to eye with modders and game hack creators in the same way Sega does. IF they see a fan doing it, whether its good or not, hell it can be better than anything Nintendo's ever made. It doesn't matter, its not jealousy they simply dont care because its "wrong" because "westerners" or "non Nintendo controlled effort" went into the game. They're too control focused and always will be till the old guard literally dies. retro studios is the only example I can think of, of them truly branching out their IP's to westerners, but i think thats because they're creatively dead to Metroid so w/e.
They aren't control focused. They're focused on rightful sales/bad rep/emulators. Almost all of the mods for newer games are on emulators, which really harm sales. Nintendo was very worried that the actions of the Smash community would rub off on them. The reason they were worried? A representative was sent to a contest and almost fainted from the smell of the people around them.
YES YES YES someone finally finally really talking about the pride issue! It's a issue all over japan in anything there!
@@TeamRocketHQR It's actually because Japan has a very colorful history and have pride in their creations. It's a huge culture gap that trying to turn Japan into America is affecting.
@@danielthecake8617no Japan is insanely racist they used to be muderously so.
Only reasons Sega is super cool with molders and roms and stuff is because they have to be. Sega is like a desperate man who will do anything no matter how demeaning or wrong it is just to keep the lights on.
I wonder if all the Final Destination, no items Fox only matches during Melee's time kind of soured Nintendo to how they saw the competitive playerbase treating their game. Picking probably the most soulless stadium that was just a floating platform and no utter randomness being displayed most of the time probably was not the look they were going for. There's a lot of things in the game that competitive players have turned off that you might not see in the other competitive game spaces on Nintendo like Splatoon.
Granted, having a thriving competitive market never does hurt the game community as a whole. there wasn't really a formalized ranking system in the games that weren't enforced by third parties, and people had the option off having chaotic fun online with other fun players, in person with friends, or having more colorful Final Destination fields with the omega stages and go on a more skill based matchup (barring lag). if you don't want to support that competitive scene, then fine, but don't be hostile to free advertisement from people wanting to have competitive fun.
i do think it's extremely funny that the meme of fox only final destination is taken as fact when solo fox has never been ranked #1 in the world and the real dominant force at tournaments has generally been marth with the occasional puff, peach, or falco.
like fox is a super popular character because he's fast, strong, and generally fun to play but he doesn't really win tournaments more often than other characters, especially not by himself. heck, even the current stage list is basically as anti-fox as it can possibly be, we banned iconic stages like temple because a slower character literally cannot do anything against a fox running away and shooting lasers.
despite it being a common saying, this has NEVER been a thing. people have never been forced to pick a specific character, and FD is just one of the stages allowed.
@@connorkillmice do you ever think about the fact that rainbow cruise was just a legal stage before
Great vid man, and JEEZ 10k after only 2 vids is INSANE.
To be honest, I never really enjoyed the competitive aspect of Smash. In my personal preference, fun comes first while shmoving comes second. Though, I also understand that it can really suck when stuff like this happens.
Melee just is a competitive game and they should embrace that. Damage is already done.
@@bobveltman Why should they? Nintendo's entire brand is "games anyone can play" and while Melee is excellent as a competitive game, you're lying to yourself if you think there isn't a latent elitism to the scene.
@@bobveltman Why? Its their game, they can direct it as they see fit. Players and the community can't take that ownership away and change the narrative. Nintendo made the game with a goal of a game for everyone. They believe they made a mistake with Melee, and literally made sure all future games didnt repeat that mistake.
Fully agreeed
@@smokyprogg what do you mean by latent elitism? Also it’s one thing to not endorse the community and their take on Smash as a fighting game, if they don’t want to it’s their right. But what Nintendo does is actively hurting the scene and at this point most smash players just wants to be left alone without worrying that their tournament will get banned for some arbitrary reason.
Not only does Nintendo hold official Splatoon tournaments, they also hold official Pokemon tournaments.
But those games are meant to be competitive. That's the difference. Also Nintendo doesn't host Pokémon tournaments. The Pokémon Company (partly owned by Nintendo) does, there is a difference.
@@SanderEvers pokemon co is nintendo
@@bilis2866 Only for about 33%, others are GameFreak and Creatures, Inc.
@@SanderEvers all of them are nintendo
@@bilis2866 Except not. GameFreak and Creatures Inc are not owned by Nintendo.
Seems like all these up and coming UA-cam channels I've been subscribing to lately are also Smash fans. Keep it going! Love the informative content.
Super smash bros needs more competition Multiversus was doing well but smash is still dominating
ironically, multiversus has the opposite problem of smash where the game is built off nothing but competitive without any other gamemodes (arcade, more party options, etc). Where as smash bros has a lot of options for casual play with a ton of game modes but nintendo actively shuts down or hinders any competitive modes
@@MisterSkullium Yeah I agree
Except that's not really the problem smash has it was never designed to be a competitive game in order for it to compete with smash you would have to make the same type of game
@@MisterSkullium Fighting games can't survive just being designed to appease the competitive scene, even a traditional fighting game series like Street Fighter needs additional content like arcade/minigames/story mode ect. to maintain being profitable. However it seems like Multiversus is less about trying to compete with Smash and more so with other free to play games like League of Legends considering its free to play too (also explains the lack of content).
Your videos are outstanding. Editing, narration, and overall analysis is just excellent.
"overall analysis is just excellent"
Except the basic understanding of numbers.
At 1 minutes he talks about "the two most competitive of the smash titles have performed better in sales than their less competitive counterparts"
Where it literally shows that Smash Brawl and Smash 3DS outsold Melee.
Brawl the game everyone hates on is the 2nd best selling smash game.
The reason could be that they want the competitive be focus on the new releases and maybe they also want to have the control of the competitive events.
Never thought I'd have one of my videos featured when I clicked on this lol. I think this is a great video and good documentation of Nintendo's actions .
people bought the game, let them play how they want
How many competitive players out there against casual players ?
You cleary don't see the point of the video here
Maybe Nintendo doesn't want to associate themselves with manchildren well in their 20s and 30s with strong BO that obsess about a children's party game? Not surprised that most of them turned out to didle little children
Most is crazy
Except they were already doing this crap way before any of that was found out. But please, keep consuming the Twitter narrative, drone.
Probably because they can smell the Smash booth all the way at their headquarters 🤢
SSBM was like my teenage years. pretty much the only game me and my 3 buddies played! we got the achievement for 1000 hours played on at least 2 consoles.
It'd be cool one day if Nintendo were able to create a Smash Game that has a competitive mode and a fun mode. Something like a combination between brawl and melee. Would love to see another subspace emissary instead of world of light. Is it not possible to advertise the game towards family fun and for competitive people, like having a fun mode and for glory mode?
I hope if there is a new Smash Game in the future, they bring back what made the other smash games good and mash them all together, like Brawl's Subspace Emissary/Music, Wii U's For Glory, Melee's tech/skills. Perhaps the fun mode and for glory mode can be better separated, by applying some brawl features to the fun mode and melee features to the for glory mode besides match settings like items.
I don't think you even need to do that because the "fun" features in brawl were literally just restrictive of skill based play. You can always add items into the game which adds a luck element and makes it more of a party game vs a fighting game
That first sentence is literally how the game is designed. That's the reason why a competitive ruleset can exist at all.
It seems like an easy fix would rules for conduct that could lead to disqualification if not followed (although we saw that go awry with competitive pokemon). Granted that also doesn’t address Sakurai’s concerns.
I never really think about it but yeah my relationship with nintendo was forever ruined by this. Ive been playing melee since around 2007 and started EMG with my friend almost 10 years ago. Competitive Smash was a massive part of my identity as a person and its been years since ive gone to an event or even played at this point.
I can't believe i'm witnessing the birth of such an amazing channel, keep up the good work!
"we're kinda weird, we took this thing and made it our own" my dude, that's just the nature of reality
I feel like it’s more on Sakurai’s part in the beginning. He was forced to make melee and along with all of the audience in the E3, he found out that very moment that he would be leading the next smash game without a heads up.
keep the good work, just hopped from ur last 2 videos. Quality content
Congrats for the 10k subs in one month!
Honestly this makes perfect sense
Indeed
Fave memory of smash? Probably playing adventure mode on melee and facing giga bowser. I do remember playing a lot with a couple of friends as well into the late hours. Ahh good times.
The thing is, Smash is still a party game. People choosing to set certain rules and play the way they want doesn't make the game magically change. You can have one group doing a competitive tournament with 1v1 no items, while next door a group is just having a party playing 4 player with items. Smash has the ability to be many things and that's a good thing. What Nintendo is doing is like if Mojang went after people for playing Bedwars just because it "wasn't intended".
I think some of the darkness that has come to light in the smash community has affected Nintendo decision on supporting competitive play. Your video was well done as well will sub.
You have to view smash as what it is - a family/friend oriented game designed within Japan for the Japanese. Almost every generation of Japanese family has experienced nintendo by now, and smash to them is a game where grandpa can sit down and play Donkey Kong vs his son who plays the DQ hero, and a grandson who likes Pokemon - in that light, you can work out why the vision for smash isn't competitive, it's a game all nintendo fans can share with eachother, regardless of whether or not they enjoy the same IP's.
that's why I completely understand Nintendo behavior because the smash community is changing the image of the game for the worse, they want their game to be seen as a family game because it touches more people if it's seen as a fighting game then its market becomes really niche and an image of technicity is added to it (I never played Tekken or SF because of that and because of the community) moreover it indeed attracted a toxic community riddled with scandals and that is not good for business either.
Yeah, but even in that context, grandpa is probably going to get absolutely flattened if anybody else has even a little more experience than the presumably extremely little experience and overall gaming skill he has. This isn't based on assumptions, but my own direct experience with playing Smash Bros with family, spanning the original Smash 64 all the way to Ultimate. None of the entries have EVER been games "anybody can win," and you don't have to be tournament level skill to absolutely shutout someone who doesn't game much.
The tourney scene isn't corrupting what Smash is about, the games were already "corrupted" with the potential for differing skill to present an overwhelming barrier from the beginning. Nintendo's just trying to reject its own shadow here, and getting appropriate results.
@@Alloveck I didn't say it's a game "anyone can win", I never said that so I really don't know why it's in quotation marks.
I suggested it's a game anyone can play and enjoy together, which it is. Their goal is mass appeal
I'm very confused about the "2 most competitive titles have performed better..." point. Like doesn't the screenshot fairly clearly indicate that brawl sold almost 2x as many copy as melee? Like in what sense is it "lower down on the charts"?
In fact if we put the 2 smash 4 versions together and only look at growth, the 2 underperforming titles are melee (
I totally agree with Sakurai's vision.
That's why I can't under why the add FOUR fighters with "input commands".
Especially Kazuya, with an unbelievable amount of attacks beyond the up/side/down + 🅰/🅱.
9:23 To caveat on this section:
Not just Mr. Wizard (who is a mess in and of himself), but about 50 members of the Smash community, like Sky Williams for instance, were implicated, were identified as perpetrators, or confessed to sexually targeting minors in some way shape or form. While point four is absolutely valid and certainly partially responsible for the way Nintendo treats Smash, it can not be understated how serious the problem in the Smash community was and still is.
Sky is innocent
@@albertwesker4729 Very, very wrong
I've been lured in so many times by fighting games by the colourful array of characters you can play but every time I bounce off them hard as my dyspraxic brain struggles to pull off a basic combo in training mode let alone an actual battle.
Sakurai pratically made Smash for people like me and its great. I honestly hope the series does not try to focus on competitive, there are already so many hardcore fighting games.
Fighting games as of late have been trying to make learning a lot easier and have more casual modes in general, it's interesting seeing how the design for them is evolving
Me and my cousin (We grew up together) decided 2 months ago to try Melee. We have played the original N64 Smash our entire life so that game was our Jam. After trying Melee me and my cousin both felt a feeling. That Melee was very different from the original and that we are shit in it. And that was a hard pill to swallow because the original smash is on our finger tips. But we kept playing. Still do. But Melee doesn't have the same spark that the original Smash caused in us. Like we get bored real quick. The game is fast paced with more combos and players and stages are very gimmicky and camera angles sometimes become weird. But I think they can be overcome with a lot of practice. I think Nintendo felt the same and maybe that's why they did that. But then all of this can be said for the original smash too.
You deserve way more views, your content is great! But i'm sure you will get there, keep it up man, you will be at 100k+ soon!
I was someone who was pretty decent at Smash. I got second place in a local tournament, and was always just slightly above average. I enjoyed the game, and played it a lot. Then, a friend of mine (who had gone off competitively to play) came to my apartment to help celebrate my birthday. I was sober, and he was drunk. Even while inebriated, he kicked my tail. Over and over again. It was that night that I realized Smash was a fun game when everyone was on almost equal footing, but a terrible game against try-hards (like most games). It's been over two years since I touched Smash, and that experience made me realize I never wanted to play it again.
lol
Lol yo ur trash. 1v1 me right now, i’ll make u rage quit real life….. is what an inconsiderate person would say. That sucks bro I hope u can one day, you can pick up smash and not suck. Cheers m8.
Sad to hear. There is two sides to this though... I know MANY people who got extremely motivated by said tailkicking. They then got really good themselves to the point where some of them even surpassed the people who taught them competitive play and still play at offline weeklies to this day.
Perhaps a stupid statement, but is it even possible for 2 players to be equally skilled? Whoever wins means that they are not equally skilled.
@@pizzaeater8905 Well if they both roughly win 50% of the time, I'd consider that equally skilled. (at least in the heads-up: It might still be a different story when playing the whole player-pool ofc.)
I totally get why Nintendo doesn't want to officially endorse the Smash community, but shutting down tournaments feels weird.
Result from Trials and errors
That's why
My understanding was that they wanted control over the esport scene for their title. Many companies like riot games ensure they are in control of all large scale esport activities. Maybe nintendo was not ready to run it themselves yet, and they wanted to stop other people from establishing control off their IP. A grant example if how mobile legends which ripped of league many time over has hindered the growth of riots own wild rift.
Woah! As ML player, you got that point where Riot Games missed this opportunity that's why their Wild Rift haven't grown that high since ML already took place back then. Aside its comparison to this Nintendo-Smash situation, here comes the situaion when Sony missed the opportunity at how high the potential of From Sorfware is because of Demon Souls given the praise from western players since its release to the west unlike the reviews from eastern players, and then Bandai Namco (which was supposed to be Sony back then) acquired Fromsoft and we now had Dark Souls up to Elden Ring (and its latest game Armored Core 6) in any platforms worldwide instead of Playstation exclusives (except for Bloodborne).
I think a big reason why they like to make games in the way they like them. They are a company run by game designers, so they would be really anal about how a game “should be played”
If that's the case then why is Sega ok with fan games, fan mods?
@@crystalbry4741 well SEGA allows it for Sonic because they are corrupt and only care about Sonic as a public figure. They take down fan projects for their other games.
@@thomasffrench3639 doesn't sega of Japan take down games? Not sega of America. Because i haven't heard about sega taking down games that were made by fans at least the American company.
The fact that almost nobody watched this video after your previous one got over a million views breaks my heart.
It’s even more insane when you look at what Nintendo is doing with Pokémon VGBC, with a world tour format, heavily advertised finals with their own little anime short. And this for the single most casual JRPG on the market, with a past incident or two involving western influencers having sexual misconduct scandals too. I just don’t understand
This video does such a good job in summing up the sitaution. Phenomenal
The competitive smash community is so bad that every dollar Nintendo spends trying to kill it is justified.
Someone whooped your ass too hard?
Nice video, I personally agree with Salurai that Smash Bros is best experienced in casual play as intended but I do understand players using older games like Melee for competitive play and respect that. I have owned every Smash game from Melee forward and enjoyed it but I never play online multiplayer because the few times that I’ve played it I haven’t enjoyed it. Online is way too serious and feels like it goes against the spirit of the game imo. Ultimate is the Smash game I’ve played the least because my friends didn’t want to get it. They got scared away from how competitive the franchise is now. I think that “competitive” labeling is what Nintendo was trying to avoid. I personally think it’s too late for that now, they tried but failed and the perception is already there.
I don’t know if Nintendo will make another Smash Bros or not but if they do then they should just embrace the competitive side of it. I personally won’t buy another Smash game but I know a lot of people would buy it since e-sports is so dominant now.
Would it cost too much for melee be put up online to be bought on the Wii U, And then get DLC's ? Or is that a whole new game?
I've found some info on what happened to Panda Cup, and it says that its linked to the wrongdoings of the former CEO of the organization sponcering Panda cup( "Alan" of Panda). It seems that he was demanding the "unofficial" Smash tournament to be cancelled, claiming Panda to be the only legit tournament. This was heard into Nintendo's ears, which lead to that CEO to be disthroned. So at one point Nintendo backed down Panda cup for the sake of protecting the unofficial Smash tournament. It was unfortunate that the unofficial tournament was also canceled because it had some issues about licensing, a request the former Panda CEO had demanded.
I would like to mention that the reason Nintendo wants no more Smash on EVO is because EVO has strong ties with Sony, Nintendo's biggest rival company in Japan.
It's a fighting game. Of course it's going to be competitive whether you like it or not.
Is it, though?
it's a party game
@@Matanumi I agree that's cool, but since shit is on by default, it's a party game first, fighting game second.
I've seen plenty of competitive Dark Souls, with frame data and all that. That doesn't make Dark Souls a fighting game, in my opinion.
@@kinglear6150 Yeah but you don't see From Soft C&Ding grassroot communities for choosing to treat the game as a second thing?
@@islandboy9381 True, but that's not what we're discussing in this comment. We're debating whether Smash is a fighting game or not.
I would love competitive smash with random scenarios and items, not the always 3-stock final destination boring option.
Calling competitive smash boring is just delusion
thats not competitive then lol
final destination is not even one of the most common stages lmao
blud has never seen competitive melee😂its 4 stocks lol
I mean I got the first smash game until the last I was a fan but what strikes me was why we can’t have tournament the way it use too I only played in 2 and that’s it it was small community tournament nothing for glory I played for a third time at a family party that last 3rd one was I lost due to star Fox Arwing shooting me while I was recovering it was devastating and traumatic and well I was wasted but that never stopped me from playing smash bros I just realized how the person beat me just took credit for that Arwing being there and if it was a different place and no foreign foul play enemies it would be different to this day that person who beat me still says it’s a onetime chance to beat him saying that to break my ego (which I didn’t had any and it was a for fun tournament) but it wasn’t I played and got beaten several times that they was just that good.
that end quote is a good thing. most people should want to play and have fun.
10k subs with just two videos is just showing how amazing this guys content is. I have never enyoyed content of this type this much.
Within a few months of Melee's release my friends and I were playing 1v1 stocks/final destination/no items with Fox, Captain Falcon, Sheik, etc. Not because we heard of that online, but because it was competitive and fun. And we were all just normal gamers, and not major fans of regular fighting games. Nintendo is confused; few players get anywhere near melee's skill ceiling, but that doesn't stop casual gamers from loving the competitive parts of the game.
I'm sure this has been pointed out, but Wii didn't have a HDMI port man. Wasn't till the Wii U when Nintendo finally added HDMI
I personally dislike competitive Smash, as it invites a lot of judgement and bias in the community (as some people start treating people as inferior or saying they're bad at the game for having a more casual playstyle for example)... but even I am disgusted by Nintendo's attempts to stamp out the Smash Bros. competitive scene. Yes, Smash Bros. is a great party game... but why would you ever go out of your way to prevent people from enjoying the game the way _they_ want to? There is no "objectively wrong" way to enjoy a game.
"And Sakurai a God among men"🤓
I don't think nintendo hate competitive player otherwise they would have never allowed some tournament to exists. I think they like that people are so fond of smash bros so on one hand they want to support them because it's good for the company but on the other hand they care about their public image of being a family friendly company. I don't think any hope is lost for the competitive scene but don't expect too much
I doubt there will be another smash bros game but anything is possible. As time goes on the competitive scene will grow smaller and smaller and it's very sad
This was such an awesome video to watch and enjoy right now and grrat title man :]
I got into Smash with Brawl's release as the timing worked out with myself hanging out with my at the time newer work friends (I did play N64 Smash at release, but never played melee), but even then we always played competitive rules (no items, etc) as that's just how we all liked to play. We all grew up as gamers & the idea that anything other than pure skill & knowledge of movesets & levels would factor into our win/loss just didn't sit right with us.
Over time we've all sort of moved on from Smash, due to moving away from each other & Smash's trash online net code there wasn't really any other option. We all got heavy into Multiversus when that came out & 2 of us (myself included) even got Platinum trophies in it. We then went back to Smash Ultimate at a gathering & found it to be slow & clunky by comparison.
Ultimately I view Smash as a game that I wish someone else would make a spiritual successor to, as Nintendo just can't be trusted to flesh out a proper online mode or support a community of gamers who grew up on their games. Games that at the core were about overcoming odds & triumph, even if that means breathing up your Bros.
The nintendo switch is the first console i've owned since the xbox 360. Only nintendo (as far as AAA devs go) could release games like smash, mario kart 8 deluxe, Mario Odyssey, kirby Forgotten Land, Breath of the Wild, pikmin 4, Tears of the Kingdom, in a time where every big gaming company is focused on mega competitive gameplay, infinite numbers os shooters with micro transactions and yearly entries in derivative franchises
Splatoon 3
"yearly entries in derivative franchises"
Ha ha yeah Nintendo would never make a thousand Mario spin-off games per second.
Didn't nintendo c&d a tournament for using a modded version of melee (to have rollbacks)?
They did, but they do the same with fan games of their IPs.
@@heavymetalmixer91 Yeah, I know, I'm not a fan of nintendo games but some of the fan games/rom hacks they took down were genuinely great.
@@crackny4n That's why I don't buy anything from Nintendo anymore.
@@heavymetalmixer91 Add Take Two and Rockstar to the boycott list too, they are even worse.
smash events also just have a louder, more rowdy crowd and players (not to mention the frequent rage moments). not a scene most people would associate with nintendo. doesnt surprise me nintendo prefer to hold splatoon tournaments.
This is why I given up on thinking I could play competitively in Smash Bros like how everyone in their 30s or so is, I still enjoy playing the game and still play ultimate with my university competitively, but there is no way I'm ever going to go full on competitive and think I can live off of this or even do this as a living. From 2014 to 2020, I had this vision of getting the best I could become and getting into official tournaments to where I could get paid. But now the best thing that would go for me is to make a UA-cam channel that would actually profit compared to playing a smash tournament that would probably make even less than what just a video would. This series really has changed me, but in the end it's something that I know can't define who I become as I grow up.
I'm not a competitive player and love the series. it's not my job to play a difficult game and it's great. Players can always make games harder.
I think what made them "ally" with panda is that it is a serious company where the environment is much more controlled, the history of the competitive smash community is very stained and also the fact of 50 people (players and tournament directors) They are guilty of harassment and abuse in the same facilities is something that no company wants to be involved, in addition to representing Nintendo. Besides that it should not be said that they are minor errors
It still hurts looking at the 2013 EVO bit where Skullgirls got one upped at the end.
I feel like it's such a missed opportunity from Nintendo. They seem to be adverse to people playing games differently than intended, which imo is the beauty of gaming. You can consume the media in a way you like. Whether it's competitive smash, a Speedrun abusing glitches, or nuzlocking Pokemon. Nintendo should take a more indifferent approach rather than a hostile one.
That's kind of stupid though... the Smash competitive community and the casual Smash player rarely meet, so how could they affect each other? Also, I think some of Nintendo's decisions may have to do with how many IPs they've collected in one product (literally one -- if not the biggest crossover in history). That's a whole lot of legal paperwork to swim through.
agreed, just seems petty to me.
Reputations and influence fucking spreads man. There's this thing called "the Internet". It doesn't matter if these people don't directly interact personally. The non-stop toxicity and rottenness to the core of the competitive Smash scene does nothing but put regular bad press out there on the game that's particularly negative when viewed from a "normies" point of view. Is someone gonna be more or less likely to want to play the game casually (particularly to KEEP playing it) when they are constantly hearing about the non-stop toxic bullshit associated with the game? Hell yes. Many people pick up Smash and then stop playing because the Smash community just kinda fucking sucks. 🤷 People had a good thing going and then THEY fucking ruined it, not Nintendo. Nintendo didn't make the competitive Smash scene a toxic cesspool of shit. The scene did that plenty good and fine on their own... 😑
@@Cooe. And yet the casuals you mention are not at all tuned in to the gaming world. I mean, I'm a gamer myself (as in dedicated gaming, not mobile gaming) and Nintendo has influenced me since I was a kid... and **I** rarely hear _anything_ about the competitive Smash scene. If I don't (and I keep a much closer eye on the gaming world than the average normie) how much less do the casuals?
I get what you're saying, but sounds blown way out of proportion to me.
@@Cooe. the only person being toxic here is you I've seen more than 1 comment from you saying literally all smash players should die. Hmm I wonder why smash players would be mad at that 🤦♀️ Maybe you should go get a grip on your life instead of being mad at people trying to have fun playing a game.
Just look at Overwatch, watch as competitors scene completely screw over casual while competitors scene crashed. Overwatch lost both scene.
As we all know, competitive party games don’t exist
Basically everything after Evo 2013 can be boiled down to stopping mods of their game or whatever tourney they shut down having such shitty PR skills that Nintendo was forced to step in
Hmmm, if Ultimate will be the only smash game we will be getting for the next few years until like 2026 or 2027. What do you think Sakurai is making now?
I would love to see Sakurai make a new Meteos
People pay them money to play these games and they have the nerve to tell their customers what they can and can’t do with their copies of the game.
You can meet up with everyone their and pay games... there's a difference between that and commercialization of their intellectual property...
@@BodieB "Commercialization"
Oh yeah buddy, the Smash competitive community is totally known for its big money.
@@mechadeka The amount of money made doesn't change the fact that tournaments are commercialized.
I hate to say it, but I have baaaaad experiences with the competitive smash community. I used to run the game room at several markets and anime conventions (note: not gaming events!) and I always try to avoid to put smash there. Sometimes we have to because the event organisers specifically ask for it but when we do, we have to:
- get rid of all other GameCubes
- pug a bag of cheapo controllers there
- completely duct tape the cd lid shut and have a stash of memory cards with everything unlocked.
Because competitive smash players will break our controllers and then just walk to a different console in the room, disconnect a controller (making that game unplayable) to continue playing smash. At one event 7 GameCube controllers broke! So from then on it was cheapo chinese bootlegs, or bring your own! Also when smash is in the room, we made sure that no other console in the room had compatible controllers because they WILL be stolen!
The environment is also super toxic. Pro smashers often complain we don't have a crt (we use a fpga in the GameCube's digital port to get 480p output on our Japanese cube, no lag whatsoever) then they complain about our savegame (sorry our card got stolen we'll use the cheat disk to unlock the shit again) and they complain about the tournament rules (our compo! Our rules!)
And I'm like "dude! It's a market! It's not a pro gaming event! Get lost!"
And the pro players often chase away first timers just kicking thrir asses and shouting"noob" at them.
So it became so bad we stopped offering smash all together.
I love smash, but I love playing it ALONE, because man this community is toxic!
I don't mind having your competitive scene, but don't try to make every smash setup a tournament! Especially not on family markets where the focus is clearly casual play and inclusivity.
My guess is because the most popular competitive(and best) game isn't the newest or for that matter when available anymore.
And as such they don't make any money from it.
Companies doesn't exist to provide people with what they want, they exist to make money for their investors.
That feeling when i finaly figured out how to fight both hands same time on brawl. Im not the kind of person to look stuff up at every time idk something
I think they stopped the tournaments because of how toxic the community can be sometimes 😂 when people spam to win, theirs an issue 😅
Agreed
yeah, i agree too
I used to try competitive smash for making friends and playing the game, but the enviroment was too toxic, and if you are not an elite, people will just look you like garbage and that make me quits
luckily I made friend that were at my same level, and after year, we sometimes play smash, but that is outside the tournament.
I hate that even tho there are people that knoow nintendo game like me, are toxic, unfriendly and elitist, but I hope to enjoy smash one day, more as a casual player too rather than competitive (except with my friends, I will play with tem competitive bc we are a the same level and we ave real fun)
Not gonna lie I use to play smash bros (I quit in 2022) just for fun and not to be competitive it does feel hard for me to like a game when everyone at least to me feels like *oh I gotta win against this player because he suck or because he is playing a character that suck* and I'm just sitting their like dude it not that serious I just play this game for fun..I don't really have any hate towards competitive smash but alot of the times they take thing too seriously
That quote by Sakurai at the end 13:01 made me really sad.
"We wanna avoid a situation where...
it's only appreciated
by a very small, passionate group of
sort of maniac players."
- Sakurai
The disrespect towards fun-loving fighters... the inability to grasp the truth out of their realm... the sort of hostility of calling passionate players "maniacs" to really denormalize people who are LEGIT just having fun... its just so ironic.
Sakurai had noble intentions to begin with... but that idea became sour poison over time and destroyed the good they sought to protect. I'll remember this...
Stay open, stay small and listen... Don't let your ideals become rot
Maybe Nintendo doesn't want to associate themselves with manchildren well in their 20s and 30s with strong BO that obsess about a children's party game? Not surprised that most of them turned out to didle little children
Oh, wow. Great use of that ending. Shocking but hit my feelers.
Isn't super smash bros brawl the second best selling game in the series?
Only because the wii outsold the n64 and gamecube. Melee did better on the gamecube and than brawl did on the wii when you compare how many consoles were sold
I agree with the bit about melee being too hard. If you're semi decent at MVC2/3 or SF5 and you ask friends to who don't know how to play , they'll probably give up after a couple rounds.
The same happened when I was in university with melee. But brawl made them feel like they at least had a chance and most preferred it.
Ultimate is, IMHO, the best smash game because it can truly be enjoyed by casuals and vets alike.
I thought smash bros 64 was intended to be a competitive fighting game. I love that game to this day. It was such a nice fresh take on a fighting game
Same asf I was probably like 10 when OG Smash came out
Has anyone considered the idea that Nintendo doesn’t like certain people being the symbol for a particular character/franchise- on top of the idea that an S tier character is positive for that franchise, whereas low tier characters are a negative symbol and detracts from that particular franchise.