Amazon Prime will DESECRATE The Lord of the Rings, and the reasons why
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- Опубліковано 12 січ 2022
- Discussing the upcoming Lord of the Rings series by Amazon Prime and why we think it will desecrate the franchise, and the underlining philosophies why.
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"Evil cannot create, only corrupt."
- Tolkien himself
He was so right. The opportunists all came from outside and they can't create anything.
It's a strawman to say Leftists are evil.
@@revanofkorriban1505 I do not think leftists are evil, but I think they are woefully mistaken in their beliefs. Leftism itself, the subordination of individuals to the state, is most definitely evil. The ideology that subverts leftists to its ends, is evil. The leaders who choose it because it is the surest way to their ends, absolute power, are evil.
@@tiggergolah You are dismally ignorant about what leftism is. History is replete with examples of people on the political right, like Adolf Hitler, Francisco Franco, Benito Mussolini, etc., subordinating the individual to the state. In short, the claim that leftism is collectivism, is just plain bunk.
What a fitting quote!!
Tolkien already disliked Disney back in the day, imagine then if he saw what they have become now.
Pure Evil, Lectroids from the Eighth Dimension!
Tolkien watching _Snow White_ : "Da fuq is dis?!"
If you told me 10 years ago that there would be a Witcher show and a LotR show and I would skip both ... I would never believe you.
What a timelime we live in.
It's the dark timeline.
Timeline #14,717,049 in Universe #503,381, just past the 9th cosmic cataclism. We're still better than the next timeline over; no dogs in that one ):
I’m fucking hoping that this isn’t another Witcher. The Witcher is so cringe it hurts.
Question is, in 10 years are we going to look back and see the errors of our ways having embraced their w0ke agenda or will we have turned things around and gone back to normality and common sense?
@@maccagrabme chances are in 10 years 90% of us will be dead.....and not because of the flu...
Tolkien wrote one of the greatest stories told by man, to see what he did twisted to fit a political agenda is a tragedy
I agree intirely!
Tolkien wrote lord of the rings with clear inspiration from the Bible but he didn’t intend it to be a direct allegory. In an interview and letter he said that he wanted a story that any person religious or not could relate to.
@@nolerin many people miss this, in fact SOOO many miss this. He just wanted a great story, and damn if it isnt the greatest of our time.
@Eli I don’t have to like the Bible (as a story?) to enjoy LoTR
@Eli It was not, as stated by Tolkien himself. He hates allegories.
Peter Jackson’s trilogy was critically acclaimed at the time, universally loved by audiences, and is still the gold standard for fantasy adaptations 20 years later. It probably still will be in 20 years time.
Maybe Amazon will use this as a blueprint?
No f***ing chance….
And all of that acclaim without any nudity, sex, or cursing. Nowadays people act as if a film or series can’t win any awards without a little bit of all three. But it truly shows what someone can do with a property if they stay at least 90% true to the source material and respect the fanbase that lauded it over the years.
@@anathar8830 watching the making of those films the major theme is how humble everyone involved is and how much respect they had for source material. They realised it was not about them. The antithesis of modern Hollywood writers
@@Uppernorwood976 I agree. Those films were made by the right people in the right place at the right time. The cast and crew really poured their hearts into them, even the people who never read the books. Hell, Viggo Mortensen only took the role of Aragorn because his son was a huge fan. That alone speaks volumes.
To me, only the original Star Wars films, the Harry Potter films, and (MOST of) the MCU films have been as well made and well casted as the LotR films, and these days, we’re starting to head into a decline because now everyone in Hollywood only cares about pushing a political agenda and non-subliminal messages in our faces instead of telling us a friggin story.
Well, The Return of The King lost the moral of the book. I don't think that it so great.
It was lucky to come out in the golden era of creativity that was after the Christian Puritanism controlled media, but before this woke Puritanism came along. Lotr got to be lotr and nothing else.
The biggest problem with modern media is that they think they can improve masterpieces. If they're so talented why don't they make their own original "masterpiece" for me to watch? I've already seen/read Lord of the RIngs. I've already seen Cowboy Bebop. I'll just watch/read the original masterpieces, I don't need or want a Mona Lisa making a duck-face holding a cellphone...
I don't have the slightest desire to watch anything made by modern media makers unless it's indie, from a non-western country, or a completely new IP, and rarely the last one.
I would also say the spin and the characters have something to say.
An example Squid Game... is it new nope..
This whole battle royal has been seen SEVERAL times before.
However Squid Game was able to put a new spin on it, that hadn´t been seen before, it was enough of an interesting concept that we actually wanted to watch it.
And the characters where likable enough that we wanted to know what happened to them.
Same with Arcane.
NONE of the story beats haven´t been seen before in other movies or tv-shows or done before equally.
But the story was interesting and characters likable.
Same with Harry Potter, boy find out he is secretly the chosen one or special... THOUSANDS of stories have done this whole chosen/special stick before.
Same with setting it in a school been there done that, got the t-shirt.
But J.K Rowling was able to twist a familiar concept and make it interesting, same with the characters.
So i would say another big problem with modern media is that very few of them manage to put any interesting spin on it or make the characters likable and interesting.
I mean to be fair this is the 2nd age rather than the 3rd age so we haven't seen it adapted yet. But yeah
They are mediocre filmmakers. Most filmmakers have always been mediocre, but they made watchable shows. They can do it competently by just following a formula. Of course, the propaganda has been inserted into if not fully taken over the formula. A mediocre filmmaker cannot make a watchable show with this formula. It’d take a genius and they’re not anywhere near geniuses.
Simply put, the formula they are using with the filmmakers they have cannot create a watchable movie or tv show. I’ve seen encouraging signs that people and even critics are getting tired of it. The critics make me laugh because they pushed this formula but, even if they praise these woke dumpster fires, they still have to watch it.
Actually, I suspect the writers would rather make their own stuff. The problem is people just haven't show interest in new stuff as they have in reboots. Because audiences are more likely to watch reboots and adaptations, it makes more financial sense to do them. The writers probably resent the properties they're made to adapt.
Evil cannot create only destroy
I soon as I read the article that said they are creating a new character, Islidur’s sister that we’ve never heard of and isn’t in the books, I said “I know exactly where this is going.”
To Udûn, that's where.
She'll be like Michael Burnham, the never-before-mentioned foster sister of Spock who taught him how to balance his human and Vulcan sides, and was his greatest hero and lifelong inspiration
@@hyjinki4886 and solves EVERY problem with amazing proficiency. Mary Sue……
Black hobbits. That's all anyone needs to know this will be trash.
It´s made post 2015 by default it is woke intersectional trash.
I'm a Maori and I have no desire at all to see a bunch of Maori Hobbits running around. If Wheel of Time is anything to go by, this is going to be horrific.
Keep up the good fight, brothers!
Thank you. I'm glad you understand that each culture has its own mythology, heritage and history. Middle Earth is inspired by old England and Northern Europe!
You want to know why you want something closer to the source material?
Because you have simple common sense, like the most of us.
There was a badass Maori in LOTR and the hobbit, Lawrence Makoare, he played many of the major mini-bosses in the movies. The leader of the Uruk-hai in fellowship , the Witch king of Angmar, the Albino Orc general in Return of the king and the Albino Orc villain (Azog) and his son (Bolg) in the Hobbit movies. What he didnt play was the races that Tolkien established as Eurocentric Dwarve,Elves, Hobbits, Numenorians, men of the west Gondor/Rohan ect. Atleast Peter Jackson mostly respected the lore and I say mostly because the hobbit movies were already woke, he literally created a female elf that doesn't exist in the lore (Tauriel) and I saw blk extras and Asians running around in Lake-town (Esgaroth) even though it would be impossible for them to be there because of how far away their home regions are.
@@franciscomap75 And because we want the creators original vision and established lore respected, if not for respect itself for the sake of consistency, having different races and not explaining where they came from and how they got there is a plothole... That aside, the hobbits have nothing to do with the second age and they werent even in the shire at that point, they also plan to make Galadriel the main character in the show (Because Strong WAHMAN/feminist propaganda) Even though she wasnt a part much less a central part of many of the events they plan to cover.
@@SagaciousNihilist He was badass. That last fight in Fellowship was epic, even more so in the extended cut.
To expand on Oz's point about "Losing villains staying in power", many of these ideologies rely on the oppressors and the oppressed mentality in stead of evil and good. The villains are *always* the oppressor while the heroes are *always* the oppressed. This is because once the heroes gain more governing power than the villains, the role can potentially be reversed which undermines their whole ideology. This is why the rebels becomes the resistance instead of forming a new republic/government in Star Wars. This is why even though the Big 5 Tech and many western government and corporations cater to their demands, they still treat the whole world as being against them. They wallow in their underdog mentality even when it's blatantly false because it is their core dogma. If they stop believing in this lie, the whole movement falls apart.
I'm also having problems with shadowbanning and hidden replies so let's see if anyone can see this comment.
It does make sense, in their twisted ways. The villains can't win against the minorities, or be stronger then them... But they still have to oppress them.
This is 100% true. Ever notice how the communists party in Cuba never stopped calling itself the revolution. Even after they took over the country.
I was thinking of Falcon's "do better" speech from "Falcon winter soldier". In this one the villains are the communists so when they lose and are killed by the heroes, they still get everything they wanted and get martyred for it. Just like how they have Kim replacing Jesus in North Korea, the communist villains play the role of the saviors.
ahhh yes, the oppressed being the heroes, even more so once they're put in charge, and find themselves above any scrutiny, because scrutinizing them is being the oppressor, even though the 'oppressed' are in charge...
how very communist...
China does this too, the CCP is constantly telling their people “to resist” as if they aren’t obviously the ones in total control. It’s also a good way to gaslight opposing movements as since your group are the “resistance”, the other groups obviously have to be the “oppressors”
They are completely butchering the lore. The annoying thing is that if they truly wanted a diverse cast for the correct reasons, they could have easily set it in the east with the blue wizards. But no, they just want to use what we know as a meat skin for their agenda.
INDEED
@Eli im pretty sure the blue wizards were dealing with their own problems in the east during the war of the ring.
I just looked a the cast. Do we know anything about them? Because there's no reason there can't be blacks in the Lord of the Rings. LotR is based heavily off medieval society, and there were certainly blacks there.
@Eli They are but tools, my friend. My enmity is against the hand that wields them.
@@andrewsori2230 there are blacks in the world of the LOTR they come from Far Harad which is extremely far to the south, then there are the Haradrim and the Empire of Rhun witch I believe are Persian and Mongolian respectively, and while they may have served Sauron because he literally presented himself as a god to them, they themselves are not wholly evil, infact a lot of Aragon's rule as High King of the Reunited realm was making peace with both empires
On piracy the funniest story I head was that there was a band that was trying to pick tour stops. They figured out where people were pirating from, and picked stops based on where they had the most piracy. They played to a sold out show every time, sold a ton of merch and CD's, and had an absolute blast in a country they never even thought to stop in.
Sounds apocryphal, but a cool story nonetheess
TechCrunch did a piece debunking this Iron Maiden story.
@@WellBattle6 Who's TechCrunch? Why should I believe them? Did they speak to Iron Maiden themselves or anything like that? Also OP didn't mention Iron Maiden...are you sure they were the band OP was talking about?
Heh how about that, just goes to show those record companies are out of touch dinosaurs
Commenting so I can pounce if someone tries to plead for communism
I think Shad choosing to not have piracy protection on his audiobook and ebook is so awesome. Thinking about people just being able to experience the story over making a profit is something rare indeed.
@@ChristmasLore Ive pirated a good share of books, mainly because audible gets fucking pricey, especially some of the series I listen too, however I still drop a credit into said books when I can so I can support the author, if I could I would buy them, but I never have the money and rely on the one monthly credit.
@@ChristmasLore yea ofcourse they dont, look at the game piracy, Denuvo was hailed as the answer to piracy, now its being cracked day 1/ week 1 for most major titles.
His logic is also moderately sound; I knew someone that would pirate video games and would actually go and buy the game if they liked it enough. So there are people out there that pirate (steal) things and if they liked it, they'll turn around and buy it legitimately.
Before Spotify was a thing, my favourite musician Released all his songs and albums for free on his website. He said that if you want to make money off your music, you're not a musician but a businessman.
Now he is a millionaire by selling merch.
I first listened to the book on Audible using my month credit and loved it so much I bough a soft cover to read at home, and a Hardcover for the collection. It's definitely worth the price.
“How does it feel to have lived long enough to see all of your favorite franchises go down in flames?” - rich evans
@Eli Don't think Dr Suess would agree with his own quote seeing as how that IP was bastardized as well.
"Feels great..." ~ Mike Stoklasa
That thing about 60/40 male/female in the workforce. We've actually had that here in Sweden for quite a while now. However, it only applies to the upper tiers of the workforce (so only the comfortable office-jobs, basically) and only in one direction. If you have less than 40% female, you are forced under threat of heavy fines to fire males and hire females, but if you have less than 40% males, there is no punishment.
Cucked nation.
@@Likexner Norway here, and we too are cucked. But our 60/40 law has one weird additional item in it - schools and kindergarten are required to have 40 % male staffing as well to give kids male role models. Always wondered how that one slipped in.
@@nidhoggstrike Well, its a little consolation but still...
As a fellow Swede, I can confirm this. The funny thing to me is that even though we have one of the world’s most progressive equality systems, Swedish women scream patriarchy at basically everything. It’s ridiculous…
You’re giving them an inch, they will kill for a mile
They say "expect the worst and you won't be disappointed" but ah, things has gotten so bad that no matter how bad you think it could possibly be... they'll say "I'll show you bad, hold my beer"
Is it sad that I spend more time watching “UA-cam content” (like KnightsWatch) than movies/series on “the Streaming Services?” I say no. It’s good because I feel like I’m actually supporting specific people I enjoy watching. 👍
Actually preferred to listen to WoT reviews here rather than suffer it to the end, I myself couldn't even force myself to finish the first episode.
@@t-machine3427 I unfortunately endured to the episode with the “warder funeral.” Haven’t brought myself to finish the season. I don’t intend to finish it…I’ve seen the taint of the dark one on the series 😉
Good grief. Come for the mockery, stay for some of the best articulated, most enlightening philosophy around. Great job!
Maybe try reading some actual philosophy then, might melt your mind.
No fantasy IP is safe in this climate of woke. Check back in 5 - 10 years for good art & storytelling.
20 years ago.
Gatekeeping is a good thing.
Ohh more than 10 for sure.
I don’t know I feel like this shit won’t go on for too much longer.
Eventually the pocketbook and pride will start hurting too much.
At some point a director/company whatever, whoever makes stuff...will make an awesome piece of entertainment, not pandering to the oscar/grammy? woke race quota, with no bludgeoning agenda BS and people will flock to it and they make mad cash, the new GOT etc etc. And others will follow.
Hopefully 😂
Who knows maybe it will be a reboot WoT - done correctly.
I fuckin hope so, but I sometimes worry that it’ll only get worse
I’ve worked in the investments industry for 9 years. ESG is not a conspiracy, it’s not something that anyone can claim isn’t happening. It is happening, and far more than even those like James Lindsay who are well informed about it are aware. All investments is being forced to embrace this concept, and trust me when I tell you that a significant percentage of Americans pensions and foundation endowments are now investing in companies, not bc of their likelihood to offer returns on invested capital, but on values
Couldn't be otherwise, values are value.
@@crhu319 eh I think that’s a strong statement
Shad: I’m paying for all these streaming services!
Oz: Hoist the colours!
Oz needs an eye patch and a parrot
Its ok, a poor woke series cant touch the books or the film trilogy in any way, it will just make us appreciate Tolkien's work even more, like a shelter from the storm! 😊
I didn't think about it that way before.
Every cloud has a silver lining, I guess
They have the rights for the hobbit at least by now, probably also LOTR itself.
A racist shelter with no good orcs and no female leaders except among dying peoples. Huh.
@@Erowens98 They have the Peter Jackson movies and the Ralph Bakshi animated movie available.
I wonder whether they will compare how many people bother to look at that very bad woke fiction over watching the PJ movies even the Hobbit trilogy?
@@reek4062 I have read the books and i still found the Peter Jackson trilogy as a solid attempt at capturing Tolkien's work, and they are obviously great films. Still did not say that I rank them as high as the books though.
What I celebrate more than Shad showing up is indeed the steady return of his beard.
Also, Amazons LotR will suck, but will bring us great EFAPs aswell! :D
@Eli Every Frame A Pause, Mauler's weekly show
i believe for once we will have to become like sauron"s armies in order to make true change to this cancer of a culture.
we must become belligerent& numerous beyond count.
we Tolkien fans will make like Mordor if we have too.
@@cr90captain89 No
"Mordor" is controlling the Elitists and their woke slaves. Becoming evil to fight evil is what Saruman did. It's wrong. It's better to be right and dead than wrong and victorious, hence the last stand of the Free Peoples at the Morannon who believed they would be victorious, but even if not, at least they stood in defiance of pure evil.
Shad's take on copyright/piracy with regard to his book just resulted in a sale. I just bought Shadow of the Conqueror. Can't wait to hear two of my favorite audiobook readers read another great story to me. (Well, the jury will be out for a while on whether or not it's a good story, no freebies shad :)
I always use the library for my reading needs, so I rarely ever actually buy books
I think I may need to revisit this policy for this circumstance
I doubt you’ll be disappointed. :)
I’ve read Shad’s book. Despite its flaws, it’s quite the gem. Well worth your time, I assure you.
Oh guys, this prequel to LOTR is supposedly set in the second age, the second age of middle earth was a beautiful, fantastical, and magical world completely different to the middle earth that we see in LOTR, so this series should be even more intriguing than the lord of the rings if they respect the source material (Silmarillion), however, my hope dies for it with the example of the Wheel of Time.
Silmarilion is in 1st age and parts of 2nd. This series is about the ending of the 2nd age and Isildur. In other words not that magical
@@stefankatsarov5806 thank you for the correction, it’s been a while since I’ve fully read through the Silmarillion.
@@LOTRfan-2023 no problem
Silmarillion is about grief, disaster and despair, there is nothing uplifting about it...................................................
What Tolkien wrote on the 2nd Age is pretty much an outline, not a fully fleshed out story. The showrunners are writing this story almost from scratch.
Wheel of time has burned Shad to a crisp, he is now and old and cranky dude like Oz
Good... Goooood. Give in to your cynicism. Strike them down. Take your place by our sides.
Shad needs an "Oz is right" jar.
Also feel like people who are forced to do good, will then it turn foster disdain for the act that they are forced to do, because they will now associate it with their free will being taken away. Thus forcing people to do good, creates evil and people who feel disdain towards good deeds.
I used to watch Babylon 5 as a kid, and I rewatched it as an adult, expecting it to be dated and horrible, and its actually really good. There is excellent writing in that show.
Its getting rebooted
@@johncraft3692 unfortunately
Yeah and it is really REALLY woke even by today's standards. Wokeness isn't bad.
@@crhu319 there's a difference between being woke, and forcing your 'woke' into things that are inherently not your ideology.. that's what's happening now, with third wave feminism raging like the third reich of women.. and wokeism crashing on the same beaches with them.. But I'll leave you with this; The amazon production of lord of the rings, is simply art fixers multiplied by wokeists.. And nobody within either group has a infinitesimal quantity of originality.
The original creator and prime writer is running it so far, so maybe there is a chance.
4:53 "How can they give such high stakes jobs to amateurs!" Me: "Don't pee on my dreams!"
If your watching this channel, you likely don't have the required level of progressiveness needed to get a job for these people. Your talent and ability will carry you far, but ideologs will overlook you for their message.
Hello BrotherhoodWorkshop! Pleasure to see you here!
Remember the Eragon movie?
Regardless of the controversy surrounding whether or not the books deserved their fame, they _were famous,_ and deserved so much more than... _that._
The sheer amount of deviance from the original source material was so great, and there were so many plot holes, were they to make a sequel, they would assemble a collage of plot discrepancies so dense, they would collapse and form a plot black hole.
Remember that?
That might be the new Lord of the Rings movie.
I actually like the Eragon movie and the books. As long as I still get something enjoyable, I don't care too much about accuracy.
This LOTR show however looks it will be both inaccurate and bad. And not just bad, but a pile of shit.
Ooh, don't even remind me of the Eragon movie. Killing off the Ra'zac in the first movie when they don't even die until the third book... And that was just one of many problems the movie had, like bad characterization, rushed plot, etc. Jeremy Irons as Brom and the VFX for Saphira were the only redeemable qualities of that trash fire. I'd hate to think of any other favorite IP of mine getting the treatment Eragon did. They could've had a great movie series if they hadn't messed it up so bad.
There was no Eragon movie.... THERE WAS NON!
ahh, the Eragon movie. That was a waste of potential... I was obsessed with Eragon when I was little; I had the books, video games & I even watched the movie a lot just because it was (supposedly) Eragon. When the movie came out, I have a distinct memory of going to a K-mart and seeing Eragon books on display and I had picked one up and was confused to find that it was not actually the Eragon book, but a weird rewrite they did using the movie's version of events... you're right though, the casting for Brom was excellent.
we need more discussions like this in the world to fight against these bad ideologies.
We do when theres actually examples to discuss. His show hasnt evenckme out yet and people are already thinking its going to run the memory of tolkien. It's a fucking joke.
You can't fight ideologies without spilling of blood.
You guys are gonna flip when you see Amazon making a new Stargate show. They're in the process of buying MGM, and the Stargate showrunners are pretty insistent a show is being made, so it definitely looks like Amazon will ruin wheel of time, lotr, AND Stargate. I'd laugh were I not crying 😭
Urgh, why did you have to tell us that?
@@sillypuppy5940 😊
Ignorance truly was bliss.
cry with laughter, I suppose. That or just dig yourself a hole in the ground where no media can hurt you.
"Must be difficult to write that all out with one hand."
Ok, team Oz officially wins.
"The problem," as the Architect in The Matrix points out, "is choice." I like that you all highlighted how one ideology denies individual humans choices in favor of a group choice, enforced by the ruthless majority or a tyranny of one. The Wheel of Time book series is VERY clear that choices are an important and essential component of humanity. Tolkien also struggled with this idea when he created inherently evil Orcs and Trolls. Is it even possible for them to achieve Christian/Catholic grace? I think a LoTR series *could* explore this idea in many ways, but not with the current way Amazon is set on creating content for their streaming platform.
There is the in LORE fact that Orcs are fallen Elves (like fallen Angels). So even when they were tortured and twisted to serve evil, their had to be some deliberate choice for those Elves to become evil in the first place.
As for Trolls and other creatures, hard to tell but theirs still no excuse for evil actions so they must be stopped (and turned to stone if possible I guess).
@@calummacritchie7840 hmm, yes but if orcs are born after the fact, then they would have to be condemned to not being able to choose. I see orcs more like an interpretation of lesser demons. They inhabit the world because greater demons similar to Satan will them to be, but without those strong figures present the orcs cease their existence. Orcs could be something that would forever leave after Sauron was defeated, but would return after Morgoth was finally freed, and corrupted more beings into becoming orc-like creatures. Or maybe their malice only persisted because of their master, etc. Remember, there’s also the theory that orcs are created like they were shown to be in The Two Towers film.
Orcs don’t seem to have too much a will of their own. It seems Tolkien distanced himself from the “Tortured Elf” idea for their origins (that idea has many inherent problems). It is better to think Orcs have no souls and are alive through the dark one power but since is not the power of the flame imperishable, they have no soul or independent will.
"....how one ideology denies individual humans choices in favor of a group choice, enforced by the ruthless majority or a tyranny of one." Well, you just defined every society there. A group of people, banding together, deciding what is lawful and what isn't, denying people the individual right to rape, steal, torture or murder, under thread of violence and persecution. The logical conclusion of that argument, and the argument made in this video, is Anarchy rules! And no I am not supporting that, I am just trying to point out that this video and comment is lacking a lot of actual philosophical nuance. Heck, Oz at some point says, evil is evil and we should destroy it, or in other words, my group is right, and we should destroy the other group(s).
Tolkien actually intended the Orcs to be perceived as a western country falling into a industrialized greedy consumer horror of a machine. No specific ethnicity or region. Living and fighting through WW1 he imagined the rogue mechanical conquering nations of future and past and used that as the inspiration for the orcs. Whether you perceive that as being axis from ww1 or ww2, the soviet superstructure of the coldwars, modern USA or China, or even the Mongol horde or Roman empire, he intended to leave the distinctions to the individual. And did a great job at it because we're all on the list of perpetrators of barbaric soulless focuses driven with mechanical will at some point in past futures of time.
@
Ulfhed Tyrsson , no, Tolkien was quite opposed to the idea of his works being interpeted as allegories. "He had imagined the rogue mechanical conquering nations of future and past and used that as the inspiration for orcs"... Well, you just pulled that out of your ass. There's no text by Tolkien (that is, letter, essay, note or commentation) that even hints at what you said. It is nowhere to be found: not in his letters, nor in The History of Middle-earth. Not in Unfinished Tales, The Silmarillion nor in the main body (LOTR & Hobbit). And it's not in The Nature of Middle-earth (which I have just finished reading). What you've said sounds like one of those far fetched interpretations of Tolkien's works that were made by second class intellectuals and that were published some years ago. I read that book some ten years ago and got rid of it. It was bad.
@@jarlbregadan914 100% this. Tolkien was adamant his story was not an allegory.
The one good thing about this LOTR dumpster fire is that it brought me here. It's so nice being able to have a genuine discussion about a topic like this without being labeled a virgin cis-gendered alt-right racist who lives in their mother's basement. It gets so frustrating.
modern media has this banner above their entrance... it says: "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."
If you are looking for another good series to watch and speak on, Babylon 5. It really introduced long form story telling with intricate story arcs and character development to live action TV.
After watching the WoT episodes (and your rants/reviews on them), I decided to reread the books (this time, going for the superior "Complete" edition). It's actually pretty impressive just how much they butchered the source material...
I'm honestly in awe.
As a RM, I've never seen a cleaner, more even discussion of fundamental beliefs in an approachable tone and manner.
Thank you for sharing your perspective and beliefs!
I just had this same discussion with my son a few days ago. I’m going to send this link to him.
Best Sunday School class I've ever attended. Don't know why there was three teachers and Lord of the Rings came up several times. But overall quite fun! :)
I think we need a Nathan word counter and a counter for how many times it looks like he's about to speak and stops.
I don't believe in Satan, but thank you for elaborating on why you call things Satanic. It's very interesting to hear about the Council of Heaven and know that even back then, people knew that freedom was of vital importance.
I work at a bank and ESG's are true. They are discussed in all of our quarterly company meetings. They are determined by a coalition of banks and and other international companies. It basically a way for the large banking and investment companies to suppress any businesses and ideas that they disagree with. It is very focused on environmentalisms and equity disguised as equality.
Can think of ESG as a global Chinese style social credit score for corporations.
Shad, I’m sure rage did not read the books, he says he wants to give logain more of a role than in the books. Considering what logain ends up doing that’s ridiculousz
Thing is he didn't even need to read the books. He could have just looked at the wiki to understand all of the characters/story/etc.
The guy clearly has no patience whatsoever. It sounds like he wants to get to the middle of the series (gotta show them powerful women!) as fast as possible and in the process sacrificed the lore, character development, story continuity and basic film writing procedures. What we saw with D&D screwing up Game of Thrones because they wanted to be done with it, happened here, except at the beginning of the story.
@@carlkenner4581 he meant in the future. . .
"Desolation of Smaug? Fuck that, let's desolate the entire property!"
-Amazon (probably)
Disney Star Wars, the CW, and HBO in fierce competition for the 'trash the franchise' speedrun record.
Baldy Jeff: "Hold my wheatgrass smoothie and watch this."
I hope they won't but if they ruined wheel of time they could ruin lord of the rings
I'm sorry, but you hope they won't? They already have. It's 100% already fact that Amazon's lord of the rings is already ruined. Please do not go in with an "open mind" thinking it might be okay. It simply will not be. They have black hobbits. Not only are hobbits not a part of the Second Age but there is simply no such thing as black hobbits. They don't exist.
@@SuperEndiku hopes ruined I guess I'll read the books
im a progressive, but am totally against woke culture. Dont turn something that doesnt have woke culture into something that does , especially when it destroys the overall arc or story, its fucking stupid. make your own thing. dont plagiarize and destroy the subject material.
Then you are not a progressive. Not by my (non-progressive, anti-marxist) perspective, and not by the standards of your fellow "progressives" (Read as: Marxists).
@@richmendelson8194 I´m a progressive, and a pretty big fan of Marx as well, and I´m antiwoke :D. Labels are dumb, let´s try to think through our problems, not expect one ideology to solve every one of them.
@@borna1231 And while I think those things are... less than admirable (being a fan of Marx? Come on. Must not know much about Marx's ideology or Marx himself) my point is that it is not I who would be "exiling" you from social or professional settings, or making your life difficult in any way (perhaps a little ridicule), it would be your fellow "progressives" and "Marxists." Tell them you're not woke or that you don't apply to even 1 of the woke strands of ideology (whether it is pertaining to borders or abortion or capitalism or immigration or police, etc etc) and you will be very quickly kicked out of the club, or deemed a "white supreme neo natz." Do so at your own risk.
same it's literally fucking embarassing to even say that lately because these absolutely lunatics are so prominent and are actively destroying EVERYTHING, it's fcked beyong belief. i'd honestly rather all these literal extremists on both sides were just slaughtered like the unintelligent borderline non-sentient cattle that they are. the world would be an INFINITELY better place 10000%.
@@richmendelson8194 exactly and thats the problem, hence my comment below if it isn't deleted, usually when i type things about groups of people being slain whole sale youtubes auto filter catches it. but clearly no other solution works, they have got us to where we are now. with 1 side being lunatics who reject reality and worship arguably the biggest buffon on the planet, singlehandedly propping up the damn pandemic and causing new variants to be bred by mass spread, and supporting the 1% taking even more of their money (lol) and the other side more worried about "canceling" each other raging about lgbt"q" crap and like 8th wave feminism or w.e it's called (REEE ALL MEN BAD type), trying to destroy actual history because they don't like it, labeling everyone and everything, digging through 30 years of peoples lives to ruin them, and regressing into children mentally. literally nothing is going to fix this besides getting rid of the worst on both side and going back to the middle to meet lol
The problem with The Witcher is not that Ciri is the main character. I hear that same argument from gamers and non book readers. Netflix said they were doing a books adaptation in the show and in the books Ciri is the main character not Geralt. Problem for the show is bad writing and in season 2 its not an adaptation anymore, 80% is cringe new content made for the show by showrunner Lauren and her team.
And season 1 butchered the short stories from the books.
For me in Season 2 th biggest issue was that they pulled a Star Wars: Attack of the Clones.
On the one sde you got an interesting plot, on the other side you got this story I don't really care about.
In addition to all the other stuff they got wrong.
Regarding "Ends Justifying Means" this relates to both how and why they are ruining properties like "Lord of the Rings" and "Wheel of Time". Because in both book series, it was explicit that you cannot fight evil using evil methods. Despite some people suggesting as much, you cannot use the One Ring to fight Sauron. You can't beat Sauron through military might and force and the rest. Ultimately, victory in that story comes from the rejection of evil by getting rid of the One Ring. The story of Faithful of Numenor, of Elendil and Isildur, would clearly resonate with those of traditional beliefs, holding to their original cultural loyalties in the face of oppression and their homelands embracing the ideas of the enemy. There is NO WAY they could leave all that in and actually make a story like that in the modern climate.
Meanwhile, in Wheel of Time, the city of Shadar Logoth is a counter-example of how things are supposed to work. The city was originally called Aridhol and was allied to Manetheren and the White Tower in a war against the Trollocs, but when things grew desperate, they began adopting evil methods and committing atrocities, and their battle cry became "The victory of the Light is all." In other words, the ends justify the means, whatever it takes to win, anything is acceptable to defeat evil. And eventually, their own evil took on a life of its own and consumed the whole city and left the ruins infected with an evil of paranoia and hatred. When Mat takes up the dagger from Shadar Logoth, he does not start puking up evil, he become paranoid and suspicious. At the nadir, just before Moiraine arrives to Heal him, he is using his friends' fears and insecurities against them, kind of like Machin Shin on the TV show. When it came time to portray Shadar Logoth on the show, they changed their actions. Instead of going out and using evil tactics to fight the Trollocs, which then consumed them, instead they had the people of the city build a giant wall to protect themselves and isolate themselves from the threat, and THIS is what consumed and destroyed them. Also, the betrayal of Manetheren was changed. it was not Aridhol/Shadar Logoth who refused to come to the aid of Manetheren, it was the White Tower, because the Amyrlin was jealous of the Queen of Manetheren and betrayed the kingdom. The show could not depict either of those things, an organization of women committing a betrayal, especially involving women fighting each other instead of the patriarchy, nor could they show Shadar Logoth as an example of evil methods producing evil results, because it goes against their own ideas. So, bearing in mind that Donald Trump was the president while they were writing this, they came up with the evil of Shadar Logoth being a wall to isolate themselves and probably wrenched their own shoulders patting themselves on the back for how clever they were to think it up.
I don't mind representation at all - in fact, bring it on... BUT NOT WHEN YOU'RE SHOEHORNING IT INTO A STORY JUST TO BE WOKE.
if you want to add multiracial, LGBTQ+, etc., characters, don't shoehorn them into a story that is well known and well loved. Write your own story.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Edit: I'm not replying to all the replies to my comment, especially not if they get into politics because I'm NOT going there.
I don’t understand how the underrepresented are ok with blatantly stealing existing characters
@@Beamer1969 It's still only a fraction of the ''underrepresented'' but they don't see it as stealing. It's about giving back ''privileges'' that the ''oppressing majority'' had for generations. It's about enforcing equality without understanding that this is equity and it's over representing minorities. It's elitist by default and sees victimhood as a superiority trait because being a victim justifies any actions perceived as ''justice''
@@Eddie_of_the_A_Is_A_Gang justice is unobtainium.
You can’t get there from here.
The base paradigm is do you want equality or superiority?
That question defines all social interactions.
Sorry I need to be more specific most minority groups I have seen do not want equality the want revenge for past inequalities.
@@Eddie_of_the_A_Is_A_Gang my thoughts are all over the place
How is stealing an existing character a good way to represent a minority?
Shad just described a study, done by, the eu on piracy. They didn't like the results, so buried it.
They'll bury anything that exposes their idiotic decision making.
Could have saved them a lot of money and that study......But then again, that goes for a shit ton of studies where the answer is obvious -.-
At this point Ungoliant eatting everything would have been a more dignified end that what Amazon's doing
Thanks to you guys I got into WoT audiobooks and I must say It's a intresting listen and finishing The Great Hunt. Like the lore, action and some of characters
i am also going through the WoT Eye of the world 1/3
Kramer and Reading are legends with their ability to tell the story too
Shad, I freely admit I pirated your book at first. I looked in book stores, but no-one had it at the time (In Auz, strangely enough). But the physical book now has a lovely nook on my shelf, and I advise anyone who asks to read it.
People who truly love something, want nothing more then to be able to freely support that thing
I doubt anyone can blame you to pirate something that is not otherwise available.
@@jasperzanovich2504 you should see the shitstorm I started by defending piracy in a comment section on youtube... There absolutely are people who think all piracy is always bad.
Edit: Well, not exactly defending. I said it's not stealing, because you are not causing demonstrable losses to the original seller. You are copying their product with the original source buying it for full price.
@@Wyzai pirating stuff is not stealing, more like faredodging. Which still is a crime and they were right to give you shit for it.
@@jasperzanovich2504 that's closer, but I would still say there is a difference. You have limited space on a transport. This is like fare-dodging on a transport that has infinite space.
Edit: The issue is we are treating piracy like it's comparable to physical things like fare-dodging or stealing. It's not. It costs absolutely nothing to company. It's theft of an intellectual property, but it's not plagiarism so it's not quite that either. It needs to be treated as its own thing and not "virtual theft".
Shad's book policy definitely worked for me. Bought it out of curiosity how Shad will avoid all mistakes he used to point out on his channel, and I decidedly was not disappointed. Absolutely worth recommending, even though, I have to admit, it did not topple my personal top list.
Evil does seek to maintain power by suppressing the truth.
Or by misleading the innocent.
love you guys. I've realized i am starved for this kind of conversation in my life. so enjoy. Keep it up.
There indeed is no curse in Elvish, Entish, or the tongues of Men fit for this treachery.
I never knew Shad was so based! You guys all rock!
oh about wheel of time, I re-watched and reacted to something I missed the first time. After Moiraine singlehandedly cures Mat way too early.. she then said that there is Darkness in Mat, that the Dagger fed as much on Mat as Mat fed on it. That's what happened when Padan Fain got hold of it later on, it turned him into something new, something even the Myrdraal feared. And then Moiraine sicks the Red Ajah on Mat? What The actual EFF?
Since you talked about good vs evil, Tolkien has lessons about that in LOTR since he was a devout catholic. You see good disturbed and darkness growing to the point of despair when all seems lost but good wins at the end, such as how all seems lost when Jesus dies but He redeems all in the end since evil is nothing compared to good.
"Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
-Lord Dark Helmet
It's a pretty common tactic to hire an inexperienced director to ensure that the studio has as much control over the show as possible.
When I heard last Oct that they had cast British comedian Lenny Henry as a hobbit, I lost hope for Amazon's LotR show. Although it did help prepare me for the horror that was season 1 of Wheel of Time.
Didn’t they also cast for a mass naked orgy scene too??
Considering Lenny Henry is over 6 ft tall they would be some accomplishment
I thought the same thing about the actor that played Matt. They revealed they were going to turn Matt gay and then he just bounced out of there like "F this"
Regarding Satan's plan- I've thought recently that a lot of the "you're going to hell!" mentality I see from some people is that it's another way of saying, "It's not enough that I win, but you have to lose." I never really considered that being part of the devil's motive. Nice insight, I'll have to chew on it for a while.
Arch is right on gatekeeping.
Sauron: Would someone explain to me why there is an LGTBQ Black Elf calling themselves Gil-Galad? And why is Numenor full of Chinese people?
I thought the Asian men were the Easterlings and the Black men were Hradrim? Why would they be in Numenor and the elven lands?
This gave me such a hearty laugh thanks
@@doopdoopdopdop7424 Because Amazon goes full woke to show diversity in casting even if makes no sense story wise and Strong Female Characters bully the men
Side note: Personally I don't care if it is a multi-racial cast in this show. I just want a good story and characters. NOT what they did to WOT
Sauron: I am the corrupter here!
I don't need to even turn on the episode to agree... But I will anyways, lmao. You, guys, are awesome.
A barber? Shad, you've been playing WAY too much _Witcher 3_ if you think barbers can grow your hair out instantly. Only way to get that epic beard back is to wait patiently for it!
I unfortunate haven't read any of Tolkien works, but he has my respect. To my knowledge he is the Father of Fantasy, and I freaking love Fantasy.
So I really dislike what they're doing with his work.
@Eli That's true.
Would you happen to know what book what book you start with?
@@lightningpenguin8937 I would suggest The Hobbit first, since it's the first book Tolkien wrote and serves as a good first introduction into the world of Middle Earth. It's a lot less dense and is an easier read than the LOTR series, and its events take place before the LOTR. Then you could move on to the first Lord of the Rings book, The Fellowship of the Ring.
George MacDonald was the fantasy author that Tolkien read as a kid. Many elements of modern fantasy are from MacDonald, not Tolkien. LOTR merely brought awareness to the genre.
@Eli I know
It upsets me that Amazon thinks that it can remake masterpieces. It isn’t the act of remaking them at upsets me, it is the execution. In my opinion even masterpieces can be improved upon, however, to improve something you don’t just rip apart everything that is already there and remake it in your own vision,m. When improving something, you take the best qualities of what is already there and you combine them. Amazon has done the opposite with Wheel of Time, and as a big fan of LOTR I truly hope that Amazon won’t desecrate the Lord of the Rings as well. Thank you guys for the awesome videos and reviews.👍
With regards the gatekeeping question, an excellent content creator called Morgoth's Review did a video on that subject back in June called 'Middle Earth Falls', about the need for gatekeeping the intellectual properties we love.
I'm glad to have someone who holds the same deep love for Stargate.
Fun fact: it was funded by the US department of defense and produced by the same company that made the ancient aliens series and the Alien and predator franchises
Hi Shad, I recently mentioned your channel and the reaction / review videos of WoT on other WoT channels in the chat, saying that you brought up many valid points, and asking if any other knew you. First responses I got from several people were that they had blocked your channel because of all the negativity. Of course you can not convice everybody, but it is sad.
Gimili to Shad: NOT THE BEARD!
13:40 I agree with Shad mostly here, but I would like to point out that there are a number of authors in fanfiction communities who go out of their way to properly spend the time on their work and explore properly how the changes would affect the story.
Many of them spend years writing their work before even posting it online.
That being said, these are a needle in a haystack and most Fanfiction is garbage.
And, counter point, most published fiction is the same; there's simply a lower barrier to entry to Fanfiction.
I can't tell you how many boring original works I've seen on Kindle that have poor writing, need a better editior (many don't even have an editor since self publishing is so easy with Amazon now), have world building that makes no sense, contradictory character behaviours and, the worst offender, a near crack addict level of dependency on the idiot ball trope to get anything in their story going.
FOR ROHAN
DEAAAATH!!!!
It is not about money. It is about sending a message. The message is clear I hope. "Everything you love will be defiled, desacrated and perverted."
Well, people need to be made unstable and agitated enough to overthrow the status quo and achieve the revolution, don't they?
What absolute bullcrap. They're just unqualified fools who got hired because they worked on other big titles. I couldn't care less if they're woke or not, as long as they're good writers. Problem is, they're not good writers. The skin color of the characters matters infinitely less than the quality of the writing.
This was a rollercoaster of a discussion but I'm glad you covered everything you did. Enjoyed every moment of it, looking forward to more.
Shad, I finally bought your novel on audible and I’m only a bit of a way through it but your worldbuilding is visceral and fascinating. And to hear it all spoken by the great Michael Kramer and Kate Reading! I hope to hear about a new release by you soon, and I haven’t even finished this book yet.
I've already listened to it twice on audible. He knows how to world build and create resonating characters. I just wish he would come out with the sequel!
Wow this got unexpectedly political. Not that I'm complaining! I think that people who care about history and European inspired fantasy will be forced to do this as these things become less and less acceptable to be passionate about for political reasons. However, I do disagree with Shad's point about the collective being more important than the individual as an exclusively evil and totalitarian concept. In fact, it's the hyper individualisation of Western societies that has made them suspectable to wokeness. For example, all of these "special snowflakes" who embrace it were raised believing that there is nothing more important than themselves. They have no identity greater than themselves and so they are much more quick to give away their inheritance and nation to foreigners.
The individual must be educated by his parents to care for the good of all. Yet when a GOVERNMENT starts viewing us as a collective, and when Individual rights are subsumed to the "collective good", then that is in fact always evil. Being concerned for the good of all must be tempered by a healthy skepticism and innate distrust of governing authority. If you concern yourself for the good of all without being aware of the potential for evils in governments with too much power, bad things will always happen. Care for others, but NEVER trust your government.
I agree with you about how weird it is that they give no names access to big properties. However, If you get someone that is well known, it is harder for the studio to micromanage/control them. If you are a newbie with few credits to your name and hoping to get a big break, you will be more willing to let the studio control you.
That's a good point
The servants of Melkor cannot create. Only corrupt.
When I look back to all the shows, I watched as kid, I would say 90s for me was the golden tv show for kids and early 20s before 2010 with things just being the golden period between those points of pop culture.
Think about how many incredibly popular shows featuring black families they were in the 80's and 90's. From the Cosby Show to the Fresh Prince and tons of others. No one cared they were black casts. Every demographic watched them and enjoyed them. We had legitimate racial harmony and true color blindness. They worked really hard to undo all of that on purpose.
If there were ever a world that doesn’t need MORE characters, it’s Middle-Earth.
There needs to be a Manga version made of these properties with all the standards of Manga.
I mean, it worked for the Sage of Darren Shan, why wouldn't it work for everything else?
To add to that list of good modern shows: The Expanse. Perhaps the best ever example of diversity done right, it’s got the most ethnically diverse cast I have ever seen, and not a single one of them ever feels gratuitous or like they were filling a checkbox. Great character writing. Starts to lose steam near the end, but even so, very worth the watch.
I agree, but the ending felt wrong. It came across as woke culture enforcement. It just did not add up. By the neutral party stepping aside to let the minority dominate the majority against the will of the majority, you asking for trouble. Dumbest political decision I have ever seen, and that is saying a lot these days.
It's confirmed, Oz is a ssethtzeentach fan
At this point I just think it's funny Amazon is burning piles of money on a show no one is going to watch.
Its too dumb to be dumb. Theyre making shit on purpose. Theyre motivated by the smell of their own farts, spite towards white men and the desire to groom audiences to accept progressively worse and worse quality product.
I don’t necessarily have a huge problem with “whitefacing”, as it’s just another form of altering an actor’s appearance with makeup, and not even a particularly dramatic one, but your point stands that it just goes to show they’re just desperate to appease their audience.
Love Richard Dean Anderson in SG-1 as Jack and MacGyver
It's always so fun listening to the philosophical tangents you guys get on. Very good points are brought up every time.
Rafe didn't read the books, he read the wiki
Awhile back I found out about a proposed LotR film that was meant to made in the 70s. It had very questionable sexual themes, drugs references, and characters getting humiliated for seemingly no reason. I thought that "thank goodness the budget was too high for this."
Now we have Amazon running the show, it's going to be bad. (And I was already having nightmares about what Netflix is going to do to Narnia.)
Was that the one the Beatles tried to fund?
@@nidhoggstrike It was John Boorman who went on to direct EXCALIBUR instead.
Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning,
Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?
Hi! Greetings from Norway! I am leftist. I'm also an atheist. I am also a feminist. AND I also absolutely LOVE your content! No, I am not offended in any way of any statement ever made by anyone on this channel. It's all in good fun. Most of it is also kind of true, which makes it even funnier. Love you guys! Keep going forever!
I just wanna put this out, I'm Muslim and I think basically all Abrahamic religions teach the same values. We are thought that since every human being is a child of Adam and Eve we are all essentially brothers. Aside from this we also believe Jesus as the messiah and messenger of God and await his second coming and also believe in the Antichrist and Satanic forces. Just wanted to put this out to let you guys know that we Muslims can relate.
Please Hurry🙂
The best you can hope for is for your favorite literary stories and IPs to fly under the radar, not attracting the attention of Hollywood "creatives" until this woke craze passes. Maybe then you can hope for an adaptation that, at the very least, respects the source material.
Unfortunately i don't believe the "woke craze" will ever stop. I believe it'll get worse and become our new reality, and we'll be the boomers whining about how it was better back in our day.
Wow I can't believe I have not found you guys til now. Thanks
You called it. Only it's not just Tolkien they're trying to destroy. It's all of Anglo-Saxon and Northern European culture and history. This evil runs deep.