A "Soul-Fetching" Spell | Tactics Ogre Analysis (Ep.5) | State of the Arc Podcast
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
- Today, we're covering chapter 3 of the neutral route. We discuss Catiua and Denam's souring relationship, Duke Ronwey's plan to accost the Dark Knights of Lodis, and Nybeth's reemergence and "sins against life."
Time Codes:
1. Intro (0:00)
2. The Dark Knights Reveal What They're Really After At Phidoch Castle (1:05)
3. Catiua Gets Angry At Denam At Almorica Castle (11:26)
4. Sir Hektor's "Public Execution" (18:27)
5. Denam's Reunion With Warren and Mirdyn (19:55)
6. Battle Against Oz At Boed Fortress (22:12)
7. Back To Almorica, Catiua Claims Denam Will Abandon Her (34:27)
8. Nybeth Subplot, Catiua Leaves With Lanselot (39:40)
9. Return To Almorica, Ronway's Demise (1:09:47)
10. Battle At Phidoch (1:13:08)
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A "soul-fetching" spell, you say? 🤨
🤣
As soon as I saw the title I laughed out loud, haha
Thank you for another great episode!!
Leonar's speech at Almorica is I think the most important part of N route. Every route leads Denam to understand (what I believe is) the central theme of the story; the understanding that will allow Denam's role as a leader in this war to be of liberation and not just a new form of oppression. The theme that the war is being painted as an ethnic conflict between irreconcilable clans, but the true war is the fight against the nobility and the fight against imperialism. Hatred against other clans is propagated by leaders as a justification for a power grab. Lodis claims to be advocating for peace and diplomatic solutions, but they created the conditions for the war in the first place, and they plan to benefit from it by taking control of the island through one of their puppets (be it Brantyn or Ronwey or now Catiua). Denam learns this in N through Leonar, who explains that the reason the resistance has popular support is because they take up arms against corrupt leaders instead of just trying to destroy other clans. It's complicated because Leonar's sincerity is incredibly suspect (especially since he still claims to see Ronwey as a liberator). But the important part is that his speech inspires Denam, and by the end of chapter 3 Ronwey and Leonar are dead which hopefully helps ensure the resistance no longer serves corrupt leaders. We will find out if Denam truly fights for the people in chapter 4.
Speaking of chapter 4, for first time players I honestly just recommend playing blind. Once you finish the game once you have fairly easy access to see the other endings within only a couple more hours of gameplay. If you really want to follow closely, you'll know you're getting the ending they will if Denam obtains the "Lord" class when he returns to Phidoch after making certain decision at Barnicia. It's really unlikely you'll see the variation of that ending that they will do 2nd, but if you're still worried then just take Ivan's advice.
Thanks for articulating this view on the theme of the game! Having only played the Chaos route before, this both adds to my understanding of that route and the broader game overall. Excited to play through the other routes with this in mind now.
this podcast is some real shit. I am addicted to your talks guys and actually began supportin you in patreon. Keep it coming
Perfect timing! Just finished replaying Vagrant Story and watching your guys' analysis and am still hungry for more.
Thank you for the podcast. :D
Yeahy.. weekly Resonant arc❤️ currently playing Tactics ogre too and Triangle strategy welcoming the new year.
I'm disappointed my man Tamuz is not only missed, but not even mentioned 😢
Not everyone can handle Tamuz's giga VIT stat and Scottish accent. Can't blame em.
On one hand, neutral is easily the worst route
On the other hand, I feel like being front loaded with that information/opinion was a weird way to do it; not a big fan of a third party saying “this one sucks do it first”, there were a lot of ways it could have been said to start there without preemptively associating it to a negative connotation.
I see where you're coming from, and I agree, but at some point, Resonant Arc has to make sacrifices in the name of practicality. There's a way they could be doing things that would allow them to get perfect immersion with minimal spoilers, but such a way would likely extend the playtime of these already-lengthy RPGs immensely. At the end of the day, they gotta get the work done for the sake of the podcast and I'm sure they have a ton of other stuff going on other than the podcast. They've got a pretty good thing going here.
its like when people say arr sucks lol
@@cycloneofsouls it does. Especially before it was shortened by almost 100 quests.
@@derrickpanciera5644 but that's not the point lol
I would have much preferred seeing Mike and Casen simply bumble through and find their own routes for at least the first playthrough. I would rather it be organic and messy than this.@@animagamer2
Thank you guys for doing this. Hope you guys had a Merry holiday and happy early Easter.
The Cerya/Oz fight was far and wide the hardest fight for me - mainly because i was trying to save Cerya (which is hard but possible). Ngl I tried a LOT and even went n recruited some fliers to help but honestly I think I'm done trying. I also had the "ok I gotta get this chapter done" feeling. I actually waited for the podcast to hear what you guys did first 😂😂 then paused n finished the chapter 😂😂
Stuff like having a winged Beast Tamer (be it Canopus or a generic) who can use Lobber is probably the best way to start… but even then you have to break through the ranks and hopefully get her behind you.
Or just replay the thing much later; after you have once finished the game you can use the World Tarot and for battles already played, you can be way over levelled (just turn it off)… For story reasons, that’s a bit harder to explain if you’re not familiar with how it works; took me a while to understand the intricacies. I imagine that Ivan will give them the rundown after they finish their first route, hopefully next episode.
One of interesting parts of the neutral route is that it forgets to introduce Volaq. It's gonna be really weird seeing this super secret dark knight at the endgame with no significance whatsoever 😅
…Huh. Curve my bow and call me an arrow, you’re right. Never thought enough on it to realise that yeah, since we don’t get his scenes with Brantyn here.
IIRC - it's been many years - in the older version, beating Oz in the Boed fortress fight gives you his axe. It was one of the first 'special' weapons you get in the game, an this chapter in particular was the first opportunity to expand your gear and tactics beyond the cheesing archers.
I never played the original but I heard archers were ridiculously overpowered. Definitely not the case now 😂 although they're still helpful and dangerous if played right
I hope whoever helps you guys with the playthrough (whether that's Ivan or someone else) doesn't overload you with stuff to do in chapter 4 because it's A LOT, like A LOT A LOT, and most of it isn't really all that important to the main plot. Chapter 4 is infamous for how you can get stuck in it for like 100+ hours if you try to do all the side stuff or even just hunt for scenes and dialogues across all routes.
EDIT: I got to the end of the vid and thankfully Ivan already adressed this. So never mind me.
That said, I'm really looking forward to the introductory chapter 4 dialogue. Oh it's going to be soooooo good!
I also like that this time there's seemingly more in-game footage accompanying the dialogue, hopefully it will be like that in future episodes.
I mean, there’s a brief sidequest to recruit Cerya (and Ehlrig), and doing POTD to Floor 5 gives us a jaw-dropping story beat if you know how to get there… Other than that, Neutral is pretty straightforward there. They could save stuff like Azelstan, Ganpp, etc. for a later route; at least they don’t lose any epilogue stuff besides Azelstan though.
Great episode. I just wish the bald dude would take it easy with the spoilers.
Yes thank you!
I didn't wanna say anything but yea orc brand definitely does ride a line with his own foreshadowing. But at the same time it's nice to have an experienced player bc I've missed a couple few things that he shined some light on so 🤷
Thank you for another great episode!!
I actually like Nybbas a lot as a villain. He's one of those nuanced villains who has the seed of good intent and isn't innately evil, but is too buried in their own methods to realize how much harm they cause to people. He's particularly interesting in context of the franchise as he makes a good parallel to Deneb from March of the Black Queen, who was a very similar character, albeit with far less depth.
In reference to the Oz fight. This was the fight that really made me understand I was going down a road I couldn't come back from. I chose to kill Oz (even though he was made to sound like a monster) in the defense of a radicel that could not even see Denim (me) as a person. The leader of the LF saw us as a toadie of the Duke, even after we made the choice to save her. I could not see myself as someone who had influence over the rest of what could happen in the game. I think this is intentional and powerful in that it made me feel like I had surrendered whatever power I had, and no one would give it back to me, even if I saved their lives.
Amazing episode guys!
Neutral is a weird route in general. I'd try to get the dialogue in POTD with Nybeth and his kids though. That one is pretty cool.
That's one of the best dialogue chains in the game. It's a shame it's so easy to miss.
I agree with Ivan that Neutral is the least well-written across the three routes.
It starts out strong, with Denam having to further compromise himself by presiding over an execution. I already felt disgusted choosing this choice, and being Ronwey’s executioner further drove this home.
Alas, the political plot gets shafted when Denam makes a diplomatic error and kills Oz of the Dark Knights. The rest of Neutral feels meandering and wishy-washy, as Denam is disempowered and banned from any real substantial political action, off to hunt for Vyce and to deal with the necromancer Nybeth while the “big boys” deal with the genuine business of ruling the nation.
Given that Leonar effectively acts as Denam’s mentor in this route, I would have greatly preferred it if they were to emphasize on a theme of Neutral as the route of balance and pragmatism. It is all well and good to hold onto one’s morals, but in times of need, the genuine politician must be able to be dissembling and flexible, moving where the winds take them. There must indeed be sacrifices, and in this path, I’d have liked to see Denam increasingly come to the conviction that sacrifices are necessary for the greater good of the nation. Leonar is perfectly placed to teach Denam that lesson: that the world is no morality tale and not so strictly classified between good and evil, but men who must make the most of the cards that they are dealt. That could have made for a nuanced story, and one that prepares Denam effectively for the reins of rulership.
As it stands, Denam meanders from plotpoint to plotpoint, and he somehow lucks his way into power given that Ronwey, Vyce, and Leonar are all conveniently killed by the end of the chapter. When contrasted against the more natural ways in which Denam rises to the top in the other routes, this doesn’t feel very convincing for me imo.
It’s an accumulation of interesting ideas that might not have gelled together the best; I like the Nybeth subplot and it’s the best place to do the thing with poor Gildas. It’s been argued that the reason he dies on this route is because Denam rejoining the Walister strengthened them against the encroachment of the Gakram/Dark Knights beyond Rhime… but also gave Nybeth an opening to sneak in and take him before anyone else can help him. It’s implied between routes that even poisoned by Martym’s sword Nifrit, Gildas actually kicks his arse; it’s just that after sending him running the poison nearly kills him and if Nybeth gets to him… yeah.
I have always felt mixed about Oz dying so early here, but given that he assumed he wouldn’t be killed (and Denam is really going off the books for it), it makes sense he’s more careless. It also emphasises his twin, Ozma getting super-vengeful; she’s given a lot of time to stew in her hatred for Denamand when they fight it’s super-personal… But damn, I kind of wish he could have survived to fight you at Rhime instead; it would give you a similar effect. Which is to say I appreciate getting to kill him much earlier on one route
48:50 For future reference. 😂
Bad ending is the easiest route to get as long as you play naturally so tanking your reputation is not really necessary.
Yeah, I think the advice was more confusing than it is helpful. I think people should just go through it without worrying about which ending they get first. You're statistically likely to get the worst ending on a first playthrough.
I mean it depends on your route and also sheer chance of how you’re playing (like how often you go killing randos, specifically based on which clan they and their attackers are…) You’re not wrong though, it’s more likely than not they simply would stumble into it; the Walister CF is probably above 30 by the end, Galgastan and/or Bakram being below is more feasible going blind.
Dangit, I literally JUST finished Chapter 2!
Fetching funny
A question for everyone, and I’ll try to be as spoiler sensitive as possible, should we be killing any certain characters who may pop up as enemies given the choices we are being encouraged to make here, or should we be trying to recruit them?
I know that Neutral will have them get the Worst ending, Chaos will be the Gilbald ending, and Law the Princess ending. Make what you will of that.
Cachua is a Tsundere.
Nobody mentioned it, but if you think about it from a real world perspective, unpopular local monarchies being propped up for political reasons by powerful distant empires certainly has a familiar ring to it.
Yes.
Yeahhhhh buddy!
25:51 Yeah, Mike? You're gonna sacrifice someone innocent for the expedience of the greater good? How interesting. :D
The guy was after X.. it’s called a macguffin (I.e. random thing that everyone is after in a given story).
I have a question. When going neutral Arycell's loyalty takes a huge hit. How do i increase her loyalty back up?
I've been replaying the game, and I went neutral first this time (I usually go CNL or LNC)... The Oz Battle to save Cerya is PAIN on a NG. Took me 3 days to make it go the way I wanted it, even with two Bait Units.
Bad moves from AI Cerya, Bad placement of Card for my Damage Units. Unlucky Crits and so on. But I prevailed.
Also, it made me think about Catiua more, and she's a very very terrible character in Neutral.
A Soul Fetch is the only Fetch worth considering. I'd be lucky to get Sole Fetch these days mind, so what the hell do I know?
what is so funny with it? i don't get the joke... :-(
@@stefanburczymucha8772 Fetch is often used by the fellas on the podcast as an alternative to a word that rhymes with duck
thanks!@@TheBeird
Why are you guys doing 3 playtroughs? Why not pick an alignment and just see that one?
I believe they want to analyse the narrative as a whole, and so they want to see the big story beats.
I love Matsuno and all, but how on earth cant he just get a team and make a new game like ff tactics or ogre tactics?
I fully understand that ff12 destroyed him, and his "sickness" was in actually just over work and stress- but we dont ask for a big project like that again.
Praying he's involved in a FFT remake like Reborn!
He doesn't work for Square Enix anymore and they own the rights to FFT and Ogre series. So it would have to be a brand new IP and maybe the Publishers don't think Matsuno's name alone is enough to bring in a lot of Sales. Though Triangle Strategy was a new IP and sold well so that doesn't make much sense.
Hopefully Eiyuden Chronicle will sell really, really well and Matsuno will see the potential of crowdfunding a spiritual successor to the Ogre games.
Already the bots are invading the comment section