Doctor Who: The Lone Cyberman Trilogy - REVIEW - Cybercember
Вставка
- Опубліковано 23 гру 2020
- Support MrTARDIS on Patreon for Perks + Rewards: / trilbee
The Haunting of Villa Diodati, Ascension of the Cyberman and The Timeless Children. As ONE story...does it actually work?
Perfect Shots Twitter Account: / dwperfectshots
Cybercember Intro Video by Daniel Sherratt - / dansherratt01
MrTARDISreview's Facebook Page: / mrtardisreviews
Twitter Page: / trilbeereviews
#DoctorWho #Cybercember - Розваги
"As of now, I wish my enemies a long and healthy life, so they may witness my many triumphs!"
Welcome to the final review instalment of CyberCember! Be sure to appease the almighty algorithm by "liking" this video and leaving any comment down below!
Not related but I think the drilling into the cyber warriors was the purging of organic componants.
I thought to myself they couldn't get a better and more streamlined look for Nu Who Cybermen than in Nightmare in Silver (Ironically, if only they were chromed, as in Silver Nemesis, the design would have really popped). Then I saw the Cyber-Warriors in Ascension. Everything with them works, even down to the blatant design nods to Earthshock.
Which is completely undercut when Ashad states his ultimate goal for the Cybermen is to become robots? When has that ever been a goal of the Cybermen?
I really thought Chibnall understood the Cybermen with Ashad. Yet dialogue like that only proved that Ashad was someone else's creation and not his.
Just wondering with the Timeless Child, should fugitive of the Judoon been the finale for series 12 and the timeless children be the finale for series 13?
@@Fallows-rh3mi Fugitive of the Judoon would have been a much better season finale.
Isn’t Somnium the first sci-fi novel, published in 1634?
Title: The Master
Occupation: the lord of time
Skills: evading death, hypnosis, intelligence and upstaging the cybermen
and dressing for the occasion!
Other skills: death by a female most of the time during the newer runs.
@@arthureaterofworlds5176 Including one of those deaths by and to a female version of him.
@@arthureaterofworlds5176 Only 2/6 of the Master's deaths in the revival were caused by women If I remember correctly, and both were in Series 3
@@tTaseric We've only seen the Master die 4 times in the revival.
1. Jacobi killed by Chantho in Utopia
2. Simm killed by Lucy Saxon in Last of the Time Lords. He's then resurrected and goes back into the Time War but survives, eventually ending up on the colony ship
3. Simm is then killed by Missy, causing him to regenerate
4. Missy is killed by Simm.
Technically Dhawan was suggested to have been killed by 13 in The Timeless Children but I reckon he survived.
So that's 3/4 or possibly 4/5.
I swear, the Lone Cyberman’s design is absolutely incredible.
I absolutely adore the helmet design!
The more you look at him the more stuff you notice
It's perfect. Cosplay goals. It just looks so real and beaten.
What cyberwoman from torchwood should have been.
@@NeroLeMorte i read this as the lone cyberman shouldve had parts from the cyberwoman aswell and now i cant stop thinking about ashad with cyberboob plates
It's a shame that The Timeless Children gotten rid of the lone Cyberman, I thought he was pretty awesome, He's probably one of the best actors to play a Cyberman after David Banks.
There is a lot more that it got rid of.
Another way that they could have the Master be the Timeless Child is say that he lied about it being the Doctor to make her feel the way he did about the revelation and to make her feel some form of responsibility for the CyberMasters (maybe because the Doctor had a role in the cover up). The Master creating Cybermen that can regenerate can then be interpreted as him taking control of a power that is inherently his and using it for a cause he deems worthy rather than just making a near indestructible army that could, in theory, also be used to guilt trip the Doctor.
...THIS! This is how you salvage the Timeless Child! And Chiball won't even *see* it 😩
The problem is that The Master never lies. And because his very life is because of the Doctor makes more sense
Absolutely my headcanon. It explains Ruth better too if she's post Troughton
Not gonna lie, the timeless child left me sorely disappointed in the time lord origin story
It's gonna be retconned, if not by Chibnall then by whatever showrunner comes after him. I just hope he listens to the criticism and accepts that very few people actually liked the Timeless Child stuff and hopefully drops it.
Yeah, it kinda diminished the Doctor as being BORN special (magical prince/princess) rather than CHOOSING to be who they are...
@@adampoll4977 Yeah, I loved the fact that the Doctor was just "an idiot with a box and a screwdriver, passing through, helping out," and doing what they do "because it's right, because it's decent, and above all, it's kind."
Wow what an original take.
@@jamma.77 Yup. I know the whole mystery of the Doctor's role with the Time Lords was toyed with during the McCoy era, but that Doctor KNEW who they were. This is why Clara as a companion was on the nose (she was great at everything because she was the "Impossible bloody girl") whereas all the other companions had to work to be who they were - Sarah Jane was a curious reporter, Zoe was a science whiz, Liz Shaw was a science whiz (with degrees), Adric was a maths genius (with a badge), Leela was a warrior, Donna was the fastest temp in Cheswick, Martha was a med student etc. This whole "born superior" even for the Time Lords is just lazy writing and demeans what the Doctor represents. Someone REALLY needs to fix this somehow and give Jodi something better to work with than "fairy princess found in the forest"
24:03
Stubagful: "Oh yeah, brakes out of the Matrix by trying to understand Doctor Who canon."
Jay Exci and Stubagful's stream where they talk about "The Timeless Children" is a favourite of mine.
@@NitroIndigo Those two teaming up was a highlight of the year. It was unexpected but awesome.
Blessed be the rhino milk!
The best part in this trilogy is the design of the Cybermen costumes, Probably my all time favourite Cybermen costumes, A mixture between the ones in The Invasion & the 80's Cybermen, My second favourite of mine in the revived series is the ones in Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel.
Revived Mondasian Cybermen are my personal favourite design. The creepy terror of old Who given a modern make over and its incredible.
Ashad is absolute fire and would be a good new design for the general Cybermen
The Warriors are solid but they’re not my biggest pleasure
I assumed the "My cyber warriors have been purged of organic matter"-line referred back to the "what kind of Cyberman makes other cybermen scream"-line. That that was what they were doing then.
Ah it would make so much more sense if The Master was the Timeless Child because it would explain why they always seem able to keep on living and regenerate without much explanation, and why they seem to have powers other time lords don't (living on as a decaying zombie in the Deadly Assassin, taking over a body in the Keeper of Traken, flying and whatever they decided to do in the End of Time etc...), you could just say all of that was because they are not time lord. This would also better justify imo why The Master would be so angry at this revelation.
i really do think the timeless child would have worked better if it was the master who was the timeless child. it would explain why he feels betrayed by the timelords because he would think he should be the master of all time lords as well as explaining how the master always survive everything that happens to him
I think Series 12 would have worked a lot better in general if the reveal of 'O' had been Omega, instead of The Master.
@@pious83 omega to obscure for that really it's 9/10 going to be the master besides it doesn't work since omega is really just his mind and will is all thats left of him
@@alexthehunted Given the context of the threat in Spyfall IE energy beings from another Dimension, that's why I thought of Omega being behind it. Striking a deal with them to become a physical being only to betray them would have worked with either.
As far as obscurity goes, Nu Who has a problem when it comes to the Time Lords. Since if it isn't The Doctor, Master/Missy or Rassilon, there are no others. Romana, Rani, Monk, Omega etc are not even mentioned in passing. There is a lot of potential for all of them in the revival. But instead we just recycle the three above. Ironic given how Rassilon was mostly a name drop or cameo in Classic Who.
@@pious83 I personally think that Omega will be behind the things we’ve seen so far. I think that Omega brought the Master back to life which explains how he’s back, I also think the TC will be revealed as the Ruth Doctor and our Doctor is the clone of the TC (or the other way around but for having Ruth Doctor as the TC clears up the plot holes better) which was created by Omega and Rassilon. The TC could play into Omega returning, wanting to use the power to restore himself. Let me know what you think of this and if you want to know why I think the TC being the Ruth Doctor and our Doctor being a clone of the TC would work for me
@@theweirdbritishguy5035 Alternatively, Ruth Doctor could be the Doctor of another dimension. Considering Doctor Who explores time and space, they don't really cover the multiverse very often. Rise of the Cybermen and Doomsday really being the main occasions Nu Who has looked into it. It stands to reason if other Earths exist, so must other Gallifreys and Skarros.
Ashad was misused in the timeless children, I agree. But, I found that on first time watching, the story felt like a positive and satisfying explosive finally. Also, maybe more character development between scenes would make it a 10/10. For me the timeless children is a 9/10 with The haunting of villa diodati 9/10 and Ascension of the cybermen probs 8.5/10
Ok, we’ve had three Master-Cybermen team ups back to back and only one was good. Can we stop please?
Which one was it?
@@redhood7650 i can only assume world enough and time(or whatever its called)/the doctor falls.
@@cameronyoungcg9270 Correct! Dark Water is messy and Timeless is a complete bore
I think what should of happened with this SERIES is put the focus on the lone cyberman as the ark, with hints of the timeless child throughout the series 11 and 12, leading to a climatic finally in series 13. This way we could explore the backstory for Ashad and make him a much larger threat with a nice climatic death or just make get away if you want him to return for the finally of series 13.
I really thought those flashbacks were Ashad's backstory. They probably should have been, in hindsight.
Interesting how both Cybercember and Dalekcember ended with the latest episodes at the time of airing (Resolution and Timeless Children)
Edit: 9:29 Honestly, i just the Time War messing stuff up as an excuse to let my inner lore hound enjoy both versions
I noticed that also...
The Time War is definitely the best way to merge these two stories so they can make sense in the same continuity. Or the cracks from series 5. Both are good
isn't that the plan that it ends Christmas day? Then there's a holiday special? That's how time and planning works.
I just kinda lean towards the show’s events
For me it’s just
The show
Big Finish
The Titan Comics
Adventure Games
I know there’s other stuff but I just count those ones rather then anything else
The Timeless Children is a bit of a mixed bag. It’s not the worst finale. I personally think Death in Heaven or even Last of the Time-Lords were worse (huh, all Master stories), but at least they struck out. The Timeless Children is basically a powerpoint with action sequences spliced in. I don’t on the whole hate the twist, I don’t really like it, but I don’t hate it.
Sacha Dhawan is great though, probably my second favourite Master just behind Delgado.
I thought Dhawan was at his worst in Timeless Children. The purple "Joker" suit really didn't work either. The Master character really falters when it is played too over the top.
@@pious83 most of them have way too over the top. The only one with any real dignity was the Delgado one.
@@samuelbarber6177 Nah bro Michelle Gomez absolutely killed it. There was so much depth to her character. She could do it all. Really I think she’s the best bit of casting the show has ever done.
@@samuelbarber6177 And Derek Jacobi...
@@pjgs4933 I was speaking about the phrase ‘Over the Top’.
Upon first viewing, I thought the Brendon story WAS Ashad's backstory and honestly, it makes much more sense than an altered memory of the Doctor.
Yeah, I totally agree with your take on this. The finale was over stuffed with game changing plot points, that just made the ending feel too bloated. Also have to say add me to those who disliked the whole Timeless child bit. Not my cuppa tea at all. By the way my friend Robert Allsopp was responsible for all the Cybermen in this. He and his workshop sweated blood to get them done and I think visually they worked exceptionally well, especially the 'Lone Cyberman' which Robert had a hand in designing apparently. I wasn't so keen on the Timelord Cyberman and they looked too 'Saturday night at the London Palladium' for my tastes. But then to be fair I didn't like the reasoning behind them either. LOL
16:19 "AAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!! I CAN'T STAND THE CONFUSION IN MY MIND!!!" - Stein, Resurrection of the Daleks
Can’t wait for the best episode - cyber cameos...
"Why don't I feel anything?"
BECAUSE YOU'RE A CYBERMAN ADMIT IT
AM CYBERMAN
I genuinely think the master carries the timeless children with his performance
I guess, he seems like a replica of the tennant master if I'm honest.
I definitely agree that the Timeless Child being the Master would be far more interesting. Heck, you don't even need him to misread it, why did he destroy the Time Lords because of the lie? Because he found out what they did to *him* but it broke his mind so much that he needed to change the story and in his broken mind, he *needed* the Doctor to feel his pain. It's entirely in character for the Master to do methinks.
Right?!?!
No, is the drums in his head plot-device again but no funny.
They could just throw a Lucas "certain point of view" to fix it
I'm honestly hoping Ashad gets like a Big Finish audio story or a novel or something. I want to know more about him. I just kept saying Yes to everything you were saying about him.
I think the argument against Villa Diodati existing is ridiculous because if you told me Chibnall and Alderton had never heard of the Silver Turk then I’d believe you. The comparison between Frankenstein and the Cybermen is obvious and if you’re telling a story with a more human cyber man then the comparison would make sense and be perfect for a thematic arc.
"So guys, there's this lone Cyberman, and he like, totally beats the Doctor and hi- no wait, HER, companions. Like, totally STOMPS them."
"Then what happens?"
"Nothing. Like, nothing. We tease this thing for the whole season, then nothing happens. Subverted expectations right? Huh?"
“Chibnall, you’re a genius!”
21:25, that’s no worse than, “It is a word, just like any other. And so is destruction, which is what we’re going to do to it.”
Another phenomenal review!
I may not entirely agree, but that’s my personal opinion - it’s always enlightening to see this type of perspective on a story.
Great work this month, really been interesting and a highlight - cracking stuff 👍
I love your reviews, your understanding of the nuances of the stories, the themes and motivations.. I really think you should get a job overseeing the scripts and putting them right before filming begins, you have such an insight into story and structure.. Mr Tardis for showrunner!! Merry Christmas and you've given us another highlight, Cybercember, well done!
The cybermen made a serious comeback in terms of threat, these last few stories alone make up for a near decade of embarrassment, thank you cyber jesus 🙌
We need a Cyberman story at some point that doesn’t feature them being upstaged by the Master. Especially a finale. Three of the last five have been the Master AND the Cybes
The Cybermen on the ship in the Ascension of the Cybermen have organic components. Or atleast, they did, until Ashad removes them. That's what he's doing in the scene where we get the line "We're carrying a Cyberman that makes other Cybermen scream!". Granted, this isn't spelled out well, so people can be forgiven for not making the connection, as it's easy to miss.
It's been a great Cybercember! Always love hearing your thoughts and opinions on Doctor Who. I will be eagerly awaiting the review tomorrow. Have a great Christmas!
The ko sharmas bit is probably the worst bit, it would be like in parting of the ways instead of the doctor choosing to be a coward not a killer, Elaine the pain and her boyfriend show up to press the big red button
19:08 Ashad is removing the human components here as the audience later finds out here 20:34 so that explains the human components problem but it’s not very obvious at first tbh
He and the other cybus cybermen are removing their organic components (body parts) to make them less cybermen and more pure robotic. Its referenced in the next episode when ashad meets the master. This could also be a way how the cybermen survive, the death particle only effects living matter, the cybermen would be pure robotic.
Those aren’t cybus cybermen
@@ontos8914 The design and the sounds of the those two cubermen are. The only difference being the chest piece logo.
@@thomaswilliams but they are in fact mondasian
I like all 3 episodes but the Haunting of villa is absolutely stunning. Top tier episode for me. Best in series 12 and one of the best for the nu who. I love it.
I don’t want either the Doctor or the Master to be the Timeless Child. The whole point of the Master was that he is the Doctor’s equal, that was the whole point of his conception and creation for season 8 of Doctor Who.
Ashard drilled into the cyberman because he wants to use the death partical but it's destroys organic substances so Ashard cut out the organic parts in the Cyber warriors and that's why he drilled in those cyberman
I’ve never thought of that, that actually makes sense!
Not sure how that's supposed to make sense. You're saying Ashad is slowly doing the same thing manually that will be quickly done automatically by the particle. That makes his drilling redundant and a waste of his time.
@@not_enough_space what he means is that because the death particle wi destroy organic matter Asgard is renoving all organic matter from the cyber warriors to make them fully mechanical
@@theweirdbritishguy5035 Yes, I understand that. That's what I'm talking about. It would make his drilling a pointless redundancy.
@@not_enough_space I guess if he didn’t remove it at that time then if he used the Death Particle, if would kill the Cybermen if it was used before they all were fully mechanical. So he wants to prevent that, I do wish we were given a bit more explanation to it, like I would be cool that he wanted to make them scream as perhaps when he volunteered to be converted, he was screaming with pride or something, that would’ve been cool and maybe we’ll get more of Ashad at the point where he is first converted because we still don’t know how Captain Jack knows about the Lone Cyberman yet
Blimey . . . I have mightily enjoyed this month of Cybermen reviews. Great stuff.
As we reach the end of Cybercember tomorrow, do you plan on including some skits between Cyber-Steve and Cyber-Jeff? Give them one last time in the spotlight until the next Cyberman story comes.
we really need a cyber Steve and jeff video
22:48 - 22:59 "Doctor, we both know this is not out of character for the time lords."
So true. They really are bastards, aren't they?
Honestly, I feel like The Rani would have been better suited for this series 12, especially if they did focus on her being an unethical scientist. Then have the focus of Ascension of Cybermen on the proper takeover of (an intact) Gallifrey by Ashad, with help of the Rani. The Rani reveals the origins of regeneration to be from experiments on the Timeless Child, and decided to use that information to create the Cyberlords, with a possibly fully converted, and aware, Ashad as the leader. Even the idea of the Cyberlords works in context of the Cybermen trying to survive by all means; what better way than to use the death-defying ability of the Time Lords. Then the third episode can focus on defeating the threat, or at least dealing with one part of the problem that will follow through series 13.
When my brother and I watched "The Timeless Children" as it aired, he predicted that the Timeless Child was the Master, seconds before it was revealed to be the Doctor.
TBH the scene was shot as if it were the Master. The camera lingers on his face, if i remember correctly, to make you think it was him.
I don’t worry about Canon to be honest. It’s a show that’s existed for 57 years across 38 seasons, nearly 900 episodes and has touched nearly every medium, from tv, to books, to games, to audio dramas, I think there’s going to be some repeating.
Yep.
@@TGM_Productions even just taking into account the modern era, that’s been on for 15 years with twelve seasons now with more than a hundred episodes.
Why I love Samuel Davis view on cannon with his broke cannon series
Honestly, canon in any media just causes divides in communities over the most pointless things.
*grabs popcorn, heads to comment section*
In all seriousness, this three parter is many, many things. Ambitious, bold, over the top, high concept, with extreme highs and lows. Haunting of Villa Diodati is one of the single best episodes in recent memory, a bold, gothic masterpiece with an amazing premise and probably Jodie Whittaker's best performance. Ascension of the Cybermen continues that momentum with non-stop action and chaos, fantastic direction and one of the best new Cybermen designs ever.
The Timeless Children is the definition of a mixed bag. Everything about the Master as a character - his dialogue, motivation, relationship with the Doctor - all perfect, and Dhawan plays it all with such intensity this episode solidified him as my favourite new series Master. The plot and narrative... are fine. The Cybermen play a far bigger part in this than I remember on first watch and the story's scope is second to none. It *feels* like a finale. And the twist I have no issue with on a conceptual level. I think the narrative potential is fascinating. But it's the execution of that twist which brings Timeless Children down. Chibnall just dumps the exposition on screen and pads it out with the companions who are a non-entity in the narrative. It's a clunky, messy script with way too much going on that hijacks a great Cyber-Wars storyline but I... think I like it? It's certainly one of the most fascinating stories in a while, mythos shifting and daring but also immensely flawed but at the same time those flaws kinda endure it even more into being an oddity. Bringing together Gallifrey, the Cybermen, the Master, the Dark Ages... it's certainly unlike any story we've had in the revival. It all depends on the resolution of the Timeless Child arc. But as a finale, I do find these three episodes satisfying. Questions are answered, more are raised and we do get some closure and it certainly isn't boring. It's a chaotic and bizarre expansion of Who lore that isn't a great Cyberman story but is an *amazing* Master story. Is it actually, factually good? Jury's still out. But the fact we're still discussing this one shows that this isn't gonna be a one and done shock factor episode. This has changed Doctor Who. And that deserves commending.
Bravo 👏 sir. This comment is *excellent*
I bet the Time Lords are really regretting releasing the Master from Shada now
I wish this trilogy was a sequel to the animation Real Time
Just imagine that Paul McGann was there in the house the whole time as well, and took Mary with him when he left. There, canon saved! The idea of the Doctor forgetting that she'd already been to this party (potentially bc McGann gets too drunk with Byron or something) is really really funny to me
Man I'm gonna miss that intro sequence so much.
If Jodie is nuwhos equivalent to Colin baker,then the haunting of villa diodati is nuwhos vengeance on varos...
Reminds me I need to watch that story
@GamingWithChu in looks and personality yes,but in fan reception she's more like Colin...
I remember being blown away by the drone sequence, it was somin completely new
If someone came up to Russell T Davies with the idea of The Timeless Child, Davies would have said "Have you ever even SEEN Doctor Who?" and thrown the idea into the waist basket (or "rubbish bin" if you will). Moffat would have looked at it and said "Ooh, I can work with this!" and would have developed a huge arc with tons of things happening all over the place. It would have been fun, it would have been annoying at times, and in the end, it would have petered out like most grand Moffat stories. But it would have been a fun ride. Chibnall does not even possess half the writing and show running talent that Davies and Moffat had. But the second season of the Whittaker Era was, for the most part, enjoyable. And Chibnall had a great story going with the Lone Cyberman - the villain was imaginative and scary, everything was set for what could have been a very good three-parter --- and then The Master shrinks the Cyberman, killing him, making the two previous episodes meaningless. Chibnall basically said "Screw this story - I'm bored and this whole season was always about the Timeless Child anyway". The rest of the episode was just The Master's narrating to The Doctor everything Chibnall had in his head. P.S. The whole idea of The Timeless Child, the Doctor having memory wipes, The Doctor having billions of previous incarnations he never remembered, The Doctor BEING the Timeless Child - all absolute crap in my opinion and a huge "F U" to 50-plus years of the show. P.S. Merry Christmas!
In the late 1980s, writer Andrew Cartmel came up with the idea that the Doctor was the reincarnation of a Time Lord founder, but even before the show was axed, he was already rapidly cooling off from the idea. He later said that it was too bit a change to convincingly pull off in a satisfying way. Chris Chibnall must have only gotten half the memo because he ripped off so much of that abandoned plot that it feels like Cartmel should have a credit in The Timeless Child. I totally agree with you. Good writers like Davies and Moffat know how to exercise reason before their imaginations run wild. Chibnall seems to write scripts from his notebook without thinking about the potential consequences. He shamelessly jumps the shark because he’s too unimaginative to work a second draft out of a first draft.
While I did enjoy The Timeless Children, I admit that the worst part about it was the reveal of the Timeless Child. And now you've brought to my attention (or reminded me) that its not just one revelation, its two. The Time Lords history has changed, and the Doctor had potentially hundreds of prior incarnations. I honestly expected the moment when the Master reveals that the Child is the Doctor for the Doctor to just roll her eyes and go "really? Are you fucking kidding me?" It just seemed soooo predictable.
Really enjoyed the Master and his plan with the Cyber-Masters though. It felt like Chibnall really knows how to write the Master in a way that Moffat never did. I was reminded of how Missy and Davros barely said a word to each other during The Witches Familiar, and you can tell that if Chibnall had been writing that episode, he would have had alot of fun with those two characters in the same room. RTD too.
Although I do wish we had gotten to see more of Ashad's story, have the finale be about him and the Cyber wars instead of worrying about Gallifrey. Or have the finale be about the timeless child and do another story with the Lone Cyberman during the middle of the series. Or have them take place during separate series, theres so much potential for both, and I can really understand this being the most disappointing story in Cybercember. Ashad definitely deserved better, he could have been the Cybermen's version of Davros!
The Cybermen have a knack for getting shafted on TV and doing well in the Expanded Works
I like 13th i love Sacha's master. Like I love how he's clearly insane and unhinged but boy these two have such wasted potential.
As for The Timeless Children, did you know that Andrew Cartmel commented negatively of the episode (and continuity change) believing the episode "depletes the mystery" of Doctor Who
Agree with that, hell the timeless child could’ve been better if they flat out don’t reveal it to be the doctor. Then there you’ve got evidence that it could be her for fans to connect the dots but not enough to outright confirm it making fans who don’t like the idea still happy
@@pcb1175 True. Supposing it could be the Master himself; openly confessing
People were mad that the Timeless Child changed things
Mr Tardis, the absolute mad lad, takes the umbridge that *it didn't change enough*
Alas, I feel the eternal conflict in Chris Chibnall's Doctor Who is between the show he wants to make and the show he is best equipped to make. On the one hand, he earned his reputation with Broadchurch, a show that told one long story every series with various intersecting plotlines. On the other hand, he believes that Doctor Who should be doing something new every story, and prioritises multiple standalone episodes rather than multi-part episodes. The results are standalones that don't often contribute to the story or character arcs and multi-parts that try to do too much at once. The Lone Cyberman arc, particularly The Timeless Children, is a perfect demonstration of the latter.
Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but I'd honestly love to see him do a mini-series for Who - I think it would be a better use of his talents.
Cybercember was great. I especially agree here that the timeless child story shouldn't have been played at the same time as Ashad. I hope eventually it turns out to be the Master rather than the Doctor because that makes a lot more sense. Merry Christmas.
I know 2020 has been a long year, but it's not even close to a year after the last episode.
The Cybermen were nearly a whole century ahead of their time.
The problem with the Time Lords in NuWho writing is that they aren't just the corrupt government elite.
Gallifrey is (was) a *planet*, with ecosystems full of alien life and with children, with colleagues and families.
There was a reason the Doctor, though running from Gallifrey and time and again butting heads against the leadership, continually had things they could praise and held fond memories and friendships.
Now, the Cyber Lords/warriors, even though they were big heads, like the post Invasion classic Cyber's, I really liked them, they just hit different.
I have a feeling we are going to see Ashad again before/just after he is converted as how does Captain Jack know about the Lone Cybermen?
He mentions working on the behalf of an alliance. Some people have theorised that this is the same alliance that the Cybermen tried to sabotage in Earthshock
Make the Lone Cyberman the Timeless Child. He lost his regeneration powers and his memory, but felt drawn to any measure that gave him a chance at immortality like some instinct of him knew he was missing something, so he turned to Cyber-fication. And we find out he was legitimately wronged by the Time Lords, which would not forgive his crimes but would motivate them in the end. During his time as a Cyberman, he discovers what happened to him, defeats the Time Lords (perhaps with the Master playing second fiddle, maybe even outwitting the Master who is set up to look like the one pulling the strings but is played himself) and there's more motivation to create Cyber-Time Lords. Ashad is the Timeless Child and is reclaiming their inherent power and sharing it with his new army. Fits even better than the Master.
I wanted the Master to be the Timeless Child. I thought that as soon as I saw the episode. The torture and constant deaths and regenerations would explain his madness and his ability to survive into what might be his 3rd set of regenerations.
Hey what about the 8th doctor in Mary Shelley being his companion? I guess it's not canon now?
But it was because of Moffat.
I think what’s especially disappointing about the Timeless Child revelation is that it could have been such a meta and interesting way to take the franchise in the future with its characters and the Time Lords.
For example a lot of fans complained that the mystique of the Time Lords has been completed ruined due to the fact that we know too much about them. I can see where they’re coming from and agree to an extent but I love how the Timeless Children in concept suggests that that was the way they wanted to be perceived. As grandiose and complex, shrouded in mystery. Sure it’s not as interesting but offers a very unique and clever way to take the show forward. How does this affect the Doctor’s ego? They’ve never liked the Time Lords but a little bit of them gets satisfied when they get to say: I’m a Time Lord! How does this change their perspective considering they’re not showing off anymore because the Time Lords were essentially a scavenger race who struck gold.
It also affects the companions relationship to her in a way. They have always been in awe of where she came from because it’s so shrouded in mystery but now they know she is nothing special and from a race of essentially humans who got lucky how does that change things? That would change the ending of Villa Diodati because that isn’t a grand alien looking down to the immortals it’s just an arrogant cheat who came from a planet of liars.
This is why the fact the Timeless Child is the Doctor is so disappointing because it offers nothing new or interesting. The Time Lords are different now but this ensures that the Doctor is still as important as ever but in a less interesting way.
The the way I mentioned earlier with the Doctor’s ego being affected also goes as far as changing her relationship with the Master. How do they react now knowing where they come from and why it ticks. Was an element of their rivalry always driven by the fact they are two runaway gods? And if not and they have the same amount of respect, why is it the same?
These are all interesting directions but Chibnall’s vision for the concept is the surface level: ‘wow isn’t he bold for changing the canon?’ But without any idea what he wants to do with this.
His original pitch for his era regarded opening up the Doctor Who universe for more stories but he literally did the opposite despite that being an option. It’s so disappointing because this could have ensured a new and bold vision for the character. Something Chibnall is apparently actively avoiding.
Yeah I agree it changing canon wasn’t my hate for the episode, it’s that there didn’t seem to be a good reason to change canon. Dr who has subtly changed canon before but that was allways for the sake of new ideas and stories to be explored, but Chibnal doesn’t seem to be doing that
I just love the intro of Cybercember.
I don't normally make requests such as this, but please could you do a review of The Weeping Angel of Mons? I personally think that it is one of the best parts of any medium of Doctor Who, for want of a better word. The scenery, the historical events, the cutaway to the Tay Bridge Disaster, the emotional bit at the end with the battle scarred landscape morphing into a field of poppies. Just such a brilliant comic
Well, I can sense a ton of controversy in this comments section
I hope it helps the video get a larger reach LOL
@@pjgs4933 somehow it instead it put bowelstrek in my recommendations
I told it never recommended me that again, everything seems like a hate filled response to stuff that shouldn’t even bother em from thumbnails alone
@@KillerMeme Oh man. It sucks when hard working creators put together content like this and only get a few thousand views, but low effort videos screeching about too many brown people onscreen or women in lead roles gets tens if not hundreds of thousands of views.
It's really a shame. All the great content from dedicated Doctor Who youtubers is just drowned out by hateful garbage from people who legit never posted about the show until they realized they could capitalize off of sexism & racism.
Really enjoy your reviews, not sure how you follow this up next year- Sontarcember anyone?
The Master, I reckon. The the Ice Warriors, perhaps.
Sad thing is 'Haunting' and 'Ascension' both set up a great Cyberman finale; The Doctor ignores Jack's warning, and creates a future ruled by the Cybermen, she goes to defeat them and ends up discovering the portal to Gallifrey, the Cybermen have won, her friends are in danger, and The Doctor has a more pressing personal matter to deal with.
Then we chuck that set up out the window for an episode that spends half it's runtime churning out exposition to a plot thread that had nothing to do with The Lone Cyberman.
14:36 it would have been a better way to characterise 13 by having her (either on or off screen) dropping her companions on modern Earth before going to the end of the Cyber Wars in Ascension of the Cybermen to complete the last 2 episodes solo (alongside the incidental characters) because she doesn't want to risk a repeat of World Enough And Time.
I always wanted to know why the lone Cybermen didn't get fully converted and why all of sudden the 2 Cybermen are backing him
The troop carrier ship really reminds me of the ship in Sword of Orion
19:34 wait, so what IS your favourite cyber man design?
4:02 That reminded me of The Shakespeare Code when the 10th Doctor was gushing to Martha about how Shakespeare had such a way with words whilst watching a play of him and the first thing he says is "Shut your big fat mouths!"
16:12 How it feels to chew 5 gum.
Happy Cybermas Eve
Haunting of Villa Diodati reminds me of The Visitation with the use of real events like the comet signalling the beginning of the Black Death.
The audio’s a little out of sync at about the 4-minute Mark but I can understand how that might be beyond your control. Anyway love the review as always!
The ascension shall begin
I've had a lot of thoughts about this finale since it came out. I personally enjoyed it, but I do agree that it is indicative of Series 12's problems in that there's too many ideas for the episode's runtime. Personally, I would have had the revelation that the Doctor is the Timeless Child at the end of Spyfall Part 2 and give her a confrontation with the Time Lords, and then reveal that the Master and the Cybermen have destroyed Gallifrey in the finale.
Also, I still don't get why making the Master the Timeless Child would be an improvement. I think it would be the worst way to salvage things because instead of disproving his superiority complex the way that it being the Doctor does, it would justify it in his mind.
I want more Lone Cyberman (time travel show)! I love his design! I love his voice! I love the idea of his character! I want more!
Never really bought the idea that the Master should have been the Timeless Child as the Master in my subjective view wouldn’t care.
The Master learning about this heinous crime wouldn’t care because he’s just as heinous and has no emotional connection to this forgotten past. In my view, the Master would probably clap at his own people’s deviousness and maybe try to blackmail them, not kill them.
This isn’t like the drums as that was something physically tormenting and motivating him, so when it’s revealed to just be the TimeLords, there’s emotional weight for the character as he believed the drums were a sign from the universe, telling him to rule.
Here it reads as the Master getting upset for a past and abstract family he doesn’t remember and that doesn’t impact his ego in the slightest.
I think the reason why it would have worked with The Master is when you look at his backstory in broad strokes. He has literally been a walking corpse and even stolen someone else's body. He went to such great lengths to cheat his own demise so many times. To be confronted with the reality that he in fact didn't need to go through any of that struggle. The revelation would even explain how he regenerated from Eric Roberts' Master and Missy. He is simply unkillable.
@@pious83 Fair enough. Though I still don’t believe an entire convoluted backstory that takes away focus from the main character to explain something that has never needed explaining is a worthwhile story to possibly waste multiple seasons on telling.
@@SoundsSarcastic234 I really don't see the point of the placing of the Timeless Children as a finale to Series 12. I think it would have served better as an opening to Series 13. A revelation to revolve a serial around. Given the next series is only eight episodes, a return to the serial format would really be the ideal.
Am I the only person who really likes the new cyber man designs.
I hope RTD keeps them for series 14 and 15
I'm disappointed that Ashads plan basically boils down to turning the Cybermen into Robots, also I still question how the Master even destroyed Gallifrey in the first place
It kinda pains me to say but the Series 12 finale makes me miss how Series 11 was set up, all new, no past lore. There's a lot to love, in fact I stand by it being an enjoyable ending. Ashad is absolutely the best part of the trilogy, but I really hate how he's just absolutely wasted. I don't want to have to wait for Big Finish or some comic book to pick up the pieces, he's too good a bad guy for them to have just tossed. Easily the biggest mistep
Ashad the lone Cyberman was fantastic (i really hope he can return at some point in the future...even though he got shrunk by the master and then blown up by the death particle detonating)...the new look Cybermen in the finale looked brilliant too (before the timelord upgrade style) Chibnell gets lots of stick over his writing but i think the way he wrote the lone cyberman story, the masters return in spyfall and also the recon scout Dalek in Resolution are brilliant...am looking forward to revolution of the Daleks on new years day and think it could turn out to be the best episode since the series returned.
I too like the new cybermen desgins in this story. As they look similar to 80s and invasion style ones. My only issues are they have the same voice FX as the cybus ones which I don't think suits them. I think a heavily synthesized voice like the eailer Troughton era cybermen would suit them more. And their mouths don't light up when they speak making it hard to tell which one is speaking
@GamingWithChu ok well still I would have gone with a different voice filter then a ring modulation one
@GamingWithChu yeah I’m glad they don’t come across as looking plastic-y like they did in that story
The Haunting Of Villa Diodati is easily the best episode of the Chibnall era absolutely no competition, its git a fantastic villian in Ashad creepy, imposing and a great design, it just makes me kinda sad that most of the rest of this era can’t reach the same highs, however the following episode lets it down its very meandering its got that middle part feel i think this continues to show that 3 parters don’t really work in the modern show, now the third part absolutely wastes Ashad he should’ve been the main focus the master honestly was not necessary and the plan they gave him to make all cybermen robots is just such an underwhelming idea, now the timeless child is great idea and i love what i do mot love however is that the child is the doctor i just dont like making them the most special person in the universe. Now if it had been the master and the person who experimented on was the william hartnell doctor would’ve been a fantastic twist really brining the doctors morality into question such a shame really seems like chibnall just didn’t know what make the story actually work
Hopefully Russell fixes the Timeless Child. Idc if he retcons it to not be the Doctor or if it's just him fully exploring the idea, I just want it to make more sense than it currently does.
I do think Villa of Diotati was brilliant going by the reasons you described. Ashad was a great villain.
Those flashbacks in Ascension felt like they were from a completely different show entirely.
Everything about the Child being the start of Timelord Society and the genesis of Regeneration, I don’t mind. I actually think it’s a good bit of world building. I just really don’t like the revelation of the Child being the Doctor.
The Haunting of Villa Diodati is one of my favourite episodes of Doctor Who of all time. It really appeals to my love of Gothic Horror, like Frankenstein and Dracula, as well as also bringing to my attention stuff that I was previously unaware of, such as the ‘year without a Summer’ or who Percy Shelley was. The whole trilogy itself as well reminds me of why I love Doctor Who, that being the central conceit of this show being able to tell any story, anywhere, any-when, because we go from a Gothic, isolated, suspenseful ghost story, to a Space Opera, High Concept Sci-Fi, interplanetary war with cyborgs... I love it. Also, Chibnall, give Maxine Alderton and Vinay Patel more work!
@GamingWithChu let’s hope this isn’t another Ed Hime situation... (It takes you away was good but Orphan 55 rally wasn’t good).
@GamingWithChu to be honest, ‘hate’ is a strong word for my feelings on that particular episode, it’s not like Love and Monsters (which I actively despise), but it just isn’t good
@GamingWithChu I’ve really been enjoying Patels work and hope he’s writing more who too and that he keeps up with the good stuff
Imagine if fugitive had been the s11 finale and timeless children had been the s12 premier :))
Anyone else not really mind the Doctor being the Timeless Child?
It honestly doesn’t bother me much
It doesn’t exactly change much massively going forward and it really doesn’t change the doctors 1-13 as they believed they was who they were back then
I kinda saw it as chibnall maybe giving future show runners the get out of jail free card of having to potentially giving the doctor more regenerations or something
If they maybe explore it further my views may change, tho do like the opportunity of maybe the doctor seeking this inter-dimensional wormhole or their origins further
@@KillerMeme I'm interested to see where it goes. I don't really think it's a necessary addition, but it made for a good episode and got one of my non-Whovian family members interested in the Doctor's backstory now.
Doesn't bother me at all. As to the Master to being The Timeless Child... why should that evil, genocidal bastard be granted any position in Time Lord pre-history?
I really think the Master upstaging the Cybermen as villains is terrible in billions of ways
I’d fix this by having Ashad and his story be Series 13’s finale, which would be the cause and build up for Jodie’s regeneration. We find a new plot to take place in Episode 8, saving Haunting for Series 13, and square this story solely on the Timeless Child and the Master. That way, in Series 13, we’d have Haunting of Villa Diodati, and the Ascension would be Ascension of the Lone Cyberman, and the middle episode would tell the backstory of Ashad, with the finale episode being the takedown of the Cyberman and the build towards the Regeneration.
The Haunting of Villa Diodati is probably my favourite story in series 12
Can’t say I like the other two stories nearly as much
I believe the Doctor asks the fam if they want to go home at the end of the Haunting of Villa Diodati and they refuse. That's why she takes them to the future, right?