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Become a Ford engine detective.. More on how to ID what you’ve got.
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- Опубліковано 7 сер 2022
- Casting numbers and date and valve covers oh my. A quick how to ID by valve covers and casting numbers. Fords are easy if you know the basics.
I'm from 🇬🇧 and came for cvh numbers, stayed for the education. Thanks 🙂👍
Hi Jay, I have acquired a older Ford small block engine with it's engine stand sadly from my late husband's former automotive/auto body business .. I know it was purchased about 3 yrs ago to replace the engine of a restoration job that he unfortunately never was able to complete on a 55' Ford .. So it's just been sitting in my garage all wrapped up safe but I obviously have no use for it and Im planning on hopefully putting the motor & the stand up for sale on the internet real soon - but only as soon as I can correctly identify it's size, make & year so I can Google the #'s and hopefully find out exactly what motor I have to sell ..
Anyways, today I watched this entire video just to get myself some good info and help correctly identifying it and I want to let you know you did a great job of explaining the basics to all of us - so thank you so much for the info it really came in handy for me .. 👍☺ I also must say that you really have a awesome on screen personality which makes all of the content on your channel that your purveying to your subscriber's so easy to follow and pleasant to watch and learn from ..
So today thanks to you I should be able to identify my motor and hopefully be able to make a decent fair sale - which would be so awesome bcuz I have 2 beautiful but always crazy hungry teenage girls to feed! Lol 😉
Thankx again, take care and wish me some luck!! 😎👍🍀
P.S. I instantly subscribed to your channel also - keep up the great work!! 😎
I'm glad to see this video because I have a 1974 302 everyone commonly says the 302 was made in Windsor or at least the block when I get a chance I will look at mine I always wondered. Thanks.
Just a few things from an Australian, yes we got 289, 302 windsors and 351 windsors , In our Falcons / Fairlanes up untill 1970 then we got 351clevelands ( USA 4V in the Falcon GTHO with a bull nose top loader and 9 inch diff ) then when Cleveland production stopped in the US Ford Australia needed a V8 as GM Holden had 253 ci V8, 308ci and Chev 350 ,s so Ford Australia got the patterns and casting dies from Ford US but the 351Cleveland 4V was a bit over the top for family cars, taxis and wagons , utes , ect so interestingly Ford Australia tested many different proto types including the rarest factory Ford 351 it used a Cleveland bottom end but used Windsor 351 heads ( a backwards Boss) the idea was to calm down in a cheap way the 351 C 4V ,s bad street manners , they produced 20 or so engines , ive seen a running one at the all ford day in Sydney Australia it has a Ford Factory cast iron intake to match up the windsor heads to cleveland bottom end ! It was called a Cleveor in magazien articles of the day . But in the end Ford Australia did a redesign of the 351 Cleveland by casting aussie only heads that were ineffect 2V Cleveland Closed Chamber ones 2V valves a four barrel cast iron manifold with 2V ports , smaller hydralic cam ect, but then they decided they needed a smaller base V8 so they used the 351c aussie block and put in a 3 inch stroke Aussie only crank , 6 inch fordged rods , and special pistons , infact when cast in the Ford Geelong Casting Centre Australia no one knew if it was a 302c or 351c untill it got to assembly and either a 3 inch or 3.5 inch crank was installed , so a aussie 351c block is no different to a 302c block , they both are thick wall ( nascar style blocks that easly can be drilled for four bolt mains and bored to 4.10 or more some possibly 4.125) and you could still get a 351 Cleveland in Australia in a new Ford in 1984/5 they were sooo common they were lying around at rubbish tips in the late 1980s espically the 302Cleveland wich is sad they had the small closed chamber
2V heads that everyone wants , install a set of US 4V valves a little porting and they flow soo well on a 351C and bumps compression to 10.5 . The other thing Ford Australia did was keep developing the little 200ci and 250ci ford sixs that started out in 1962 in the first falcon as a 144ci six , in 1978 Ford Australia wanted to use as much parts from the 302/351c as they could to keep costs down so the redesigned the head using Cleveland style canted valve closed chamber heads , they got Honda to help design the chambers and ports , first cast in iron then in 1981 alloy with EFI , then in 1988 they released the single over head cam six in metric 3.2 litre and 4.0 litre ( still same bottom end as 200 and 250 ci ) they went well but in 2001 or so they added double over head cam four valve per cylinder heads with variable valve timing and lift , and then in 2006 came the Ford Barra Six with a Garret Turbo, im sure you have all heard of this motor . Not bad for an engine that started life in 1962 .
You sure knows a lot.
New to the channel, alot of info. Thanks.
Easiest way to tell 8.2” from 9.5” deck is distance of the deck from water pump bolt imo
Great video Jay! Ford made some fine V8's in the day...especially the 302/351 series. I can never understand why all FE blocks had 352 casting number on them....it just didnt make sense. I'm a mopar guy these days when it comes to classic cars and by golly you could tell a b-engine 383 from a 400. Ford always seemed to make it mysterious for some reason.
Not all of them say 352. Many of them do, but not all.
it's easy for me to tell by the width of the intake. Speaking of which I need to go pull a 1996 f150 5.0 for my friend. Hoping it's a roller block!
Good detail Jay , i now sure i have 351 . I was told it was a cleveland but I'm thinking it a Windsor lol . I'm going to put engine in 66 Fairlane 2 dr , still try to identify block # thanks & i will keep watching
Easiest way to tell if it’s a Cleveland or if it’s a Windsor is the Cleveland has no aluminum timing cover. The block casting protrudes and the water pump bolts directly to the block. At a glance anyway.
Small correction, my first car was a 1983 gt with the 4v 302 and 5 speed, and it came with the fined aluminum valve covers. I think it is considered a half year model tho. Just puttin it out there. I Enjoy the videos, just subscribed!
Our 83 had a 4 speed with the finned aluminum valve covers.
My 66 fairlane had 289 hipo engine ,still have alot of parts. But I'm putting in 351 out 70 mustang should be nice cruiser when done ;)
One time I swapped a 351w into a v6 mustang and used the v6 flex plate.... Didn't last long before the main bearings failed 😅
Those first valve cover you showed was not the first sbf valve cover, the very first vc had no opening on the. Oil fill was threw the timing cover and it had a road draft tube on the passenger side.
We want Jay to come back
Good help Jay, I did find out have 351w/ Windland lol a Windsor/ cleveland mix . So do I call it a clevsor or windsland ? Lol thanks MorWil, az
Commonly referred to as a clevor.
The 302 by design is of the "Windsor" engine family. Despite them being cast in clevland or where ever? The 351 windsors also had some made in clevland. But its still a windsor.
Hard to be of the “windsor” engine family since that designation wasn’t used until 8 years after the introduction of the 221. So saying “ by design” is misleading. It’s a what came first situation. The chicken or the egg? To add to that, there is no reason to call it a 302 Windsor as only 1 302 was ever produced in the US. Finally, by my research and 35 years messing with them, no windsors were ever cast anywhere other than the Windsor plant. The exception would be the Boss or Motorsport blocks. ( not sure where they were cast).
@jasonking0973 are u serious right now? Ur guna argue this?? Ok, u tell me what engine family dus the 260/289/302/351w classify as?? Not 335. Not FE. Not 385. Not Y blocks. Not MEL engines. What would they be?
@jasonking0973 I understand they didn't start out being called windsors. But I do believe it grew into that. Everybody understands what we mean if we say "the Windsor engines". If we strictly were refuring to where they were made we would be calling clevlands windsors as well. More clevlands were made in Canada than clevland.
Lol.. why do you insist on labeling an engine? If you want to be technical it was originally known as the challenger v8. So since it was introduced in 1962, 7 years before the 351 Windsor, should it be the challenger 351? No, it shouldn’t. The only reason the 351 was EVER called the Windsor was to differentiate it from the Cleveland… that’s it that’s all nothing else. No need to slap a label on something that doesn’t need it.. there’s only one Ford 302, 289, 221, 260, 255 in the US. No need to call it anything else.
@@jesseduke694 that’s actually false.. almost all Cleveland where cast at the Cleveland plant.. 100% agree most guys in the know will understand what we are talking about. Not everyone IS in the know. You rub elbows with real Ford guys and we could talk about pretty much anything and we’d understand. Not everyone does understand. Spend 5 minutes on social media and you’d see that. This video was just to give some of the history and backstory behind the slang so more people would understand. People like to overcomplicate things that don’t need to be. We aren’t disagreeing, just looking at the same facts from two different direction.. know what I mean?
I never knew the 302 was manufactured in the Cleveland plant. It’s funny how everybody lists them as Windsors.
Everything needs a label these days. I think it simplifies it in peoples eyes.
Originally the 221 W was produced in the Windsor plant , 302 W was also produced in Mexico along with 255 ci , I'm Australian so we have to say Windsor or Cleveland as we had 302/351 Clevelands , 302/351 Windsor's .
I see a lot of heads there. Have have 385 series heads for sale? Looking for some d0ves to replace my d2ve heads.
I have a 67 mustang with a harmonic balancer that broke into pieces where it slides into the crank. Can I identify what year the crank is without dropping the transmission? I’m thinking of replacing with a Fluidampr or an ATI and it seems that I need to know what year 302 the crank is. I figure the wrong damper was on there and that’s why it broke the way it did.
I think age is more of an issue than the possibility of it being the wrong balancer. You would definitely feel it in the whole car if you had the incorrect one before. 99.9% of the time guys would use a 2 piece rear seal crank in a 2 piece block. If you know the year of the block (casting number above the starter), it makes things very simple. 2 piece rear seal blocks (pre- 1980ish) are 28 oz, after would be one piece and 50 oz. Hope that helps.
Those 302 casting date codes basically sit above the starter right? Im trying to find mine so i can identify what 302 block I have.
The early blocks had a pad above the starter with the casting number. Later blocks won’t have that pad, but the casting number will be in the same general area.
Hey Jason. Got a question for you in my 63 Fairlane will i need to modify the shock towers for a 302 with headers is there enough room taking it out looks tight. Would there be a benefit to doing anyway for extra room if so any good idea on any kits . Thank you for your time.
There is absolutely room for a 302 with headers. If you need more room, Crites Performance Parts is the go to for shock tower kits.
302 W is same size externally as 221, 255, 260, 289
Any one no a set of headers that'll fit a 63 fairlane I guess it's a weird year it's tight with the manifolds thanks.
Whats your thoughts on rebuilding a Fairlane 63 i believe it's a 221 i believe its an l code. Or just go with a different engine such as a 289.
Nothing wrong with the 221. Piston choices may be limited, otherwise it would be a pretty straightforward rebuild. The only thing I would be mindful of is making sure you have the correct bore size head gasket. If you’re wanting to make a little more power than the 221 would offer, definitely go with a 289/302. Honestly with things the way they are with flat tappet cams these days, I would steer you towards using a newer roller cam block. They can be dressed to look identical to your 221. The only thing to keep in mind, the roller cam block won’t have the boss cast into the block for your z-bar (if a manual) and you’ll have to go with a newer 6 bolt bell housing for your transmission. Hope that helps.
What does it mean if mine ends with SE instead of the TE for Truck Engine
That just means the part was originally released for a Thunderbird. That obviously doesn’t mean that’s all it was used for. Hope that helps you.
Reason for short valve covers wasn't to "save metal" it was for clearance. Upper Intake manifold almost sits on valve cover with short covers. Look at Explorers with 5.0 not much clearance at all. I have 01 Explorer 5.0 in my 05 Ranger Level II 4x4 yes it all works. It all started out in 99 ranger 4x4 so 05 has all 99 wiring, fuel system and ABS. I have roller rockers I like to put on engine but not with short covers. Ford racing does have slightly taller alum valve cover that clears roller rockers. But vac fitting on bottom of upper intake manifold that hits and then fuel line that run on top of left valve cover.
In the past I’ve just installed spacers between the upper and lower intakes and used valve covers others said wouldn’t work. The valve covers in question actually date all the way back to 1986, long before the explorer got the 5.0. So I don’t think Ford had clearance in mind when designing them. The aluminum Ho valve covers are actually taller than the stamped steel and still clear the intakes of the era. I agree they were used on the explorers for additional clearance. I’m buying a 98 explorer and will be swapping the 5.0 drivetrain into my daughters 01 Ranger. I plan on using HO valve covers as I believe they seal better than stamped steel. All that will be covered on the channel.
@@jasonking0973 I'm aware of short covers being used before Explorer. Already have issue with getting rear long bolt out in upper so putting spacer in sure make it fun to line everything up. I have 1/2 spacer kit sitting right here. But there is another issue since I have torq monster headers EGR tube solid 1 piece not like factory with flex part in it.
@@jasonking0973 Swap into Ranger damn near plug and play. Changed Anti thief module and key in steering column fired right up. I could have swap whole drivetrain in and never had cut or lengthen driveshafts make it AWD. I even used explorer axle after taking all brackets off stock and welded on Exp axle. Plus its wider it squares truck up. Never understood why many trucks have narrow rear track. But I didn't want AWD I still wanted t-case but now its manual t-case with shifter in floor looks factory. Reason for used 99 wiring in 2005, fuel system and ABS because where it picks up vehicle speed to make everything work and not have to heavily modify everything or custom cluster. Don't remember how 01 does it either from trans or ABS system. I do know 99-2000 Ranger was direct swap from 99 to 01 explorer. Add extra ground in cluster to make tach read right. There are many ways to swap it. All factory parts to some or heavily modified
@@pdmustgtd1013 I’ve been doing a lot of reading on the swap. I’ve never personally done it so it should be educational. I’m not trying to make extra power, so mostly factory parts are going to be used. I’m just over dealing with the 4.0 sohc stuff.
@@jasonking0973 With mine starting in 99 was easy, then 03 level II and now 05 level II. When I put V8 in 03 it was oh crap speed signal came from PCM not ABS. I read someone used GEN/Body module from 4cyl wired it so it gave speed signal to PCM. But only so much room under dash and seen this only it talk about once. Anti- thief different on 01 Ranger. 98-01 explorer to 99-00 Ranger used same Anti-thief system. Then some were using earlier PCM to get around. I have wiring manuals from Ford that I bought. Now you can't get hard cover manuals. But you can from ford in PDF file if you pay subscription 1 yr, 30 day or 72 hr. I get 72 hr that $21.95 when I need info.
I have a 1967 Cougar with a 351W. Do you know anything about a block # E6ZM-6010-A351? Thank you
SVO sportsman block. Should be 2 bolt main and reinforced in critical areas over a standard production block. It isn’t a Dart or World, but still plenty strong.
@@jasonking0973 Thank you for the information
I am looking for information on EGR control solenoid, how does it work, 1994 mercury villager
Give me some of your symptoms and I’d be glad to cover it in the next video.
@@jasonking0973 it looks like it has failed and making the engine light turn on, apparently it is a difficult part to find, auto parts stores are not sure if they have the right part or not, and expensive too for a air solenoid, I am also looking for a compatible part
I’ll be happy to talk about egr systems in a video this weekend.
@@jasonking0973 I am trying to find out if the EGR control solenoid has an impedance resistance value that the PCM is designed to look for to turn on the engine light when the resistance goes to high or to low ? also does the EGR control solenoid have a circuit in it that the PCM looks for ? Does the EGR control solenoid have a pneumatic check valve ? I am looking for electrical theory and electronic theory and pneumatic theory about the EGR control solenoid
Not all egr solenoids are created equal. I’ll have to do some research to find out the nuances of that particular system on that specific vehicle. The computer could use sampling of the O2 in the exhaust to verify valve function or it could measure resistance to check activation. My guess is the solenoid is just a vacuum switch to activate the egr valve and would have no need of a check valve. I’m not sure how “smart” the system is. I’ll check and add my findings to the video.
What does the "36" and the "S" mean?
It’s really hard to say. It could be any number of things. Batch numbers, core numbers, foundry line designations, markers for machining operations. For all intents and purposes I think they’re meaningless to us. I can cover that in the next video if you’d like.
D00e heads are they worth 75 a peace.
Maybe to the right guy. It really depends on what shape they are in and what your goals are. When you figure in the cost of valves, hardened seats, porting, surfacing, spring pocket machining, possibly guides, machining for screw in studs and guide plates, there are better options out there. If you do the porting yourself (which I’ll be covering in a future video) they may be an decent option. I just wouldn’t want to spend 1k plus dollars on a set of iron heads that will be mediocre compared to what’s available on the market today.
Some one has a set of gt40 p heads for sale for700 rebuilt. It's going in a Fairlane 289 already has a mild cam
@@rossgirdeen3247 those would be a great upgrade. The price seems high depending on what’s been done to them. You’ll more than likely have to consider additional cost for the correct springs for your cam and headers that will clear the weird spark plug angle. 3 bar gt40 heads are about the best option out there for production stuff IMO.