Built my 427 but based it on the Dart block. Used same heads but the Eddy Super Victor. Compression 10.3 and a Lunati hyd. roller with 241/249 and .600 lift. 6 years ago put on the Price Motorsport dual Holley inline intake with a pair of custom Holleys flowing 660 cfm. Still going strong after 11 years now and it is in my 1985 Mustang LX coupe! 480 HP at the wheels with 505 Torque all in by 5700 RPM.
I'm always bummed, and surprised actually, that basically none of the engine builders on UA-cam give us viewers maybe 8-10 seconds of idle time. Man, us street guys love that! We want to hear what kind of chop the builds make and how they would fare in the real world. Vacuum too. What stall you'd need on an auto, and that they'd reliably idle with a stick where it's a PIA to keep blipping the throttle while holding the brake and clutch. I'm thinking more about carved applications here.
Ran a 4.17 stroke x 4.03 bore windsor for years from 2005-2014. Made as much as 545 rwhp on a dynojet chassis dyno(with a 5spd tremec) and ran as fast as 10.15 @ 132 MPH in a 3150 lb foxbody coupe with a C4 trans,pump 92-93 octane. All off the shelf parts. AFR 225 heads,Super Victor Edelbrock intake,Herbert mild solid roller cam,1 3/4 headers 3" X pipe and MAC 3" catback with tailpipes.
With the 950cfm carb, they saw best performance at 30 degrees of timing, then a bit of a fall-off when they advanced to 32 degrees. Why did you not simply revert back to 30 degrees of timing, then put the big 1150cfm dominator carb on to see if that made a difference? Are you going to leave this engine at 32 degrees of timing, knowing that it does better at 30?
Yes, I wondered the same thing about the timing. Also, why not dykem and exhibit the pattern the roller rockers are leaving on end of valve tip , aka the 'walk'. Save those valve guides, side load wears out guides ! Maybe that was done throughout all 16 with a push rod length checker before they ordered the set of pushrods. Great video BTW.
@@Lifeistooshort67 Ole No prep there just tends to make ignorant statements on things he knows nothing about to be annoying. Just last week he was telling me how Chrysler engines were really cheap to build in the seventies. Being that I was a Ford and Chrysler supporter in the 70s and understood the lack of aftermarket support for them compared to GM it was a little annoying. I'm sure he's about 16 and is pretty sure he knows just about everything. Ignore him and maybe he'll find a squirrel to entertain him out his window.
They also didn't say that they DIDN'T set the timing back to 30° I'd be pretty sure they actually did, that carb shouldn't have added horsepower, to me, it sounded like they were trying it to dispell the myth that an oversized carb would flood the engine.
Nothing is ever mentioned about it, but ARP has filled an area that was totally lacking. The new items they design are clever and them rolling the threads onto the fasteners instead of single point chasing them is a major plus. I hope they never run out of ideas!
Learn something new everyday. Back in the day just torquing fasteners to proper spec was considered good enough. Now you must measure bolt stretch in some extreme applications. Cool!
Not much. Back in the 90s, the 427 stroker was a lousy engine. The earlier versions were just a marketing gimmick capitalizing on the 427 name, but they had poor rod angles due to being so overstroked. They suffered from piston slap, rod failures and short lifespans. Current versions of the "427 stroker/W/R" don't have a single Ford part on them. They're just parts bin race engines. Nothing wrong with that, but can't be called a "Ford 427" with a straight face, IMHO.
🤠 *You 2 Guys Are Outstanding, And A Great Example Of Methodical & Thorough Working Dream T.E.A.M.= Togetherness, Each Accomplish More 2 Geter Done, Having Fun* 😎
I love the videos, I really wish I knew more about intake centerline, and vacuum readings since I grew up in an era of fuel injection finding good carburetor tuning is really difficult
My mom bought 351w equipped Mustang in ‘69. I got to drive it as a teen, delivering fried chicken around Marina del Rey, CA. Great tips for very quick deliveries.
It was mentioned that the 427-powered Cobras won the GT Championship. Actually it was the 289-powered Cobras, primarily Daytona's, that won the FIA World GT Championship. The 427FE won in NASCAR, NHRA, SCCA A-Production (Cobra Roadsters), and FIA Prototype racing (Ford GT Mk II and Mk IV), winning LeMans and many other races.
Yep. The 427 Cobra race effort was essentially abandoned by Shelby because the shop couldn't keep up with the Mustang, GT-40 and other projects. Shelby was stretched too thin, and the 427 Cobras were demanding when it came to chassis tuning and setup.
@@randomologist77 A friend who worked for Shelby on the race team said that Ford ordered the Daytona's retired to concentrate on the GT-40's. He also said that Ford insisted on the switch to the 427FE in the GT's so they could sell more Galaxies and Country Squires with big blocks. Apparently Shelby, and many of his guys, felt the small block had plenty of potential left and there was no need to switch to the big/heavy engines. In fact, the GT-40 initially used the OHV Ford Indy 256 cu in/375 hp OHV engine. Ford created DOHC heads for the Indy V-8 and got about 425 hp out of it. Parnelli Jones had a 5.0 liter version of the DOHC Indy engine (in a Lola T-70) with maybe 500 hp. And, later on, John Wyer's Gulf team used the small block (302) with Gurney-Weslake heads to win LeMans twice ('68 & '69). It looks like Shelby was right that the small blocks still had more potential. Since then, we've seen the small blocks punched out to as much as 427 cubic inches.
@@randomologist77 Couldn't find your other reply about the 427 FE, so here's my answer. I should have said Ford wanted to sell FE engines in station wagons, coupes and sedans. Specifically 390's and 428's, not the race oriented, and expensive, 427's. Salesman were supposed to tell Joe Public, "why that 390 in the Country Squire is (virtually) the same engine that just won at Daytona (or LeMans)." Same with the 426 cubic inch so-called "428." It was given that name so people wouldn't try to race it (most race classes were limited to a max of 427 cubes). Then eventually, Ford started offering racing versions of the supposedly non-racing 428 (CJ and SCJ). Anyway, "Race on Sunday, sell on Monday" always depended on selling cars with the same brand or model name, not with the actual same equipment.
@@michaeldelaney7271 I deleted the response because there's just a lot of ground covered. The 428 (4.132 x 3.980) is technically 427ci (426.96ish), the 427 FE (4.233 x 3.784) is technically 426ci, but Ford allowed some finish hone wiggle room in there to get the 427 to "427." Ford made a concerted effort to market the 428 with special drag pack edition Mustangs with the CJ so the idea they didn't want it to be raced seems suspect. The 428 was just inferior to the 427 in race applications as it was a purpose built street engine, not a purpose built race engine like the 427 that was unsuitable for typical production car use. The only reason the 428 even came into being was the 390 being outmatched by upcoming and recently released competitor street engines from GM and Mopar like the the 440 and the L36 427s. While Ford no doubt wanted to use the 427 FE's potential victories for propaganda's sake, they were looking to win first and the 289 wasn't a winner and probably wasn't going to be a winner at Le Mans. Ford would have been happy to tell Joe Public their 289 engine was the one that won at Le Mans if it came down to it. Also, the small blocks had a long future ahead while FE engines were already in their swan song stage with the 385 series in development. The 289 was overmatched and unreliable at the power levels the GT40 needed to achieve to win at Le Mans. The 255ci Indy V8 was an incredibly exotic and wild engine. Custom aluminum block, DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder, fuel injection, gear drive timing, 12.5:1 CR and unusable below 6,000rpm with an 8,300rpm redline. The 255 still made 60hp less than the intentionally rpm restricted 427 in the GT40s and the 255 was only designed to run 3hrs, not 24hrs. Even if they wanted to use it, Ford didn't have time to devote to a build program for the Indy engine for Le Mans and it was not an engine they could market as it had nothing in common with the production engines. Also, from my understanding, the drivers made the call to go with the 427 after it proved Ford's point of view by blowing track records out of the water. It was just a no brainer. The 427 was more powerful, more reliable and more forgiving with an ability to pull well down under 2,000rpm. Shelby wanted lighter weights and after the successes of the 427 were proven again, Shelby begged (and was denied) the 427 for the Mustangs, instead getting the 428 as 427 production couldn't be ramped up even if Ford wanted to do it.
@@randomologist77 I'm sorry about getting mixed up on the FE's various displacements. "427's" are actually 426 cu. in. and "428's" are actually 427 cu. in. I had always heard that Ford absolutely did not want to call one of their engines a "426" as that was a famous MoPar Max Wedge and Hemi designation.
The Championship Cobra was the small block Cobra that still used the Triumph front suspension and Jag E- type rear suspension that came on all the original unchanged small Cobras. The big block Cobras had an overgrown body with completely different chassis and suspension, brakes steering, etc. etc. But the spelling of Cobra was still original.
The 289's spinning to 8K is what won all the championships in the cobras and daytona coupes. Loved this build- great job. Never discussed what the maximun safe RPM was.
Wow.... taking a 351w to 7000rpm. The last time I ran a 351w I had all I could do to get her up to 5500...and she probably stopped making power before 5500. I did manage to squeeze 322hp out of her,She was out of breath around 4700. Back then there were no aluminium heads etc for the 351w and add to that I really didn't have the know -how to really understand what I was doing. She still ran very good,Spanked a few other cars around,But she didn't have the power like your engine Over 600hp!!! It just wasn't possible for most of us..you want more RPMs you had to consider moving up to a 351C or really do some wizardry on a 390,428 or a 429... skills and money which I didn't possess
It's impressive that the aftermarket took the Windsor head and modified it to the point that 500+ HP engines are possible. I wonder why Ford couldn't design a decent Windsor head from the beginning?
They won’t do anything that isn’t tossing a bunch of sponsored parts at a project. Same reason they won’t massage stock parts to make more HP, there’s a whole class of drag racing based on stock appearances where people make 10 second passes on cast iron heads and manifolds, you won’t see that here either because there’s no sponsor cash
That's all nice, but in my experience with a 2 bolt main block and less stroke at just 4" (408), I had some pretty signicficant amount of cap walk and fretting of the mating surfaces. That was with the external 28oz imbalance crank that was balanced to the rotating assy. too. This was 6K rev limited and used for a road race application so lots of extended RPM times. This is a lot of weight and a BIG arm swinging around to try to control with cast iron 2 bolt mains. It might be OK for limited street use and the occational rip down the dragstrip, but not the best idea for a race application or high RPM with extended times. OK for budget street stuff, though.
yes it will run on pump gas but that set up would do so much better on racing fuel . put 110 to 120 octane thru the intake and set it to 30 degrees that would let it will lift the front end on any old ford it would also make the engine a lot happier. they were made to run on high octane back in the day and even the aftermarket blocks love the high octane juice.
My buddy is getting ready to build us a Windsor. We're going .60 over bore and he's gonna build the internals to be ready for a nitrous plate down the road. For now, we're gonna be running a Holley Sniper EFI setup. This will be taking place of my factory 351M-2bbl which is currently pulling 9mpg at best in our '79F-150.
@ 6:06 in...I am busting at the ears man...I can't wait to see what that baby puts out...trick everything...that crank...H beam rods...spec pistons...I knew a guy from Canada...had his own shop...he spent a lot of cash on a Teflon button 350, I know Earning had some great parts in the engine...dang...A Vegas transplant & he was an HONORABLE MAN...I MUST ADD...GOOD GUY...HE TOWED HIS EL CAMINO TO LAUGHLIN FOR THE STREET CAR SHOW...THEY HAD BURN OUT CONTESTS...(I honestly don't know if he broke that engine in...) BUT ON BURN OUT NIGHT...HE GOT ON IT...ONE IF THE PISTONS FRIED...Back to trailer & home...Sad for him...after I lost track because I wasn't in area any longer...wah...
You guys obviously know what your doing with engines. Especially Pat… With the whole pro drag racing engine stuff… My question is, why does everyone spray copper seal on cometic head gaskets when they say not to?
Hey guys love the show. I know you’ve done plenty of Windsor builds but I’d love to see how far you can take the ford motorsports alloy z351 block with borla stack injection. Some are saying you can get 460cui out of these.
There's no such thing as a 427 Windsor. It's a 427 Stroker. As opposed to the factory FE 427 (sideoiler or topoiler) and 427 Cammer (AKA 7.0 SOHC). A factory stroked 351 Windsor crate is the 427 Boss, and when you stroke a 351 Cleveland, it's known as a 427 Clever. If you stroke a 351 Windsor block using 351 Cleveland top end (or vice vsrsa) it's called a 427 Clevor or 427 Windland.
I had bought a 69 351w, $500.00 used, short story I got it rebuilt to a 418ci all high performance, choppy Comp Cam, roller rockers victor junior heads, highrise intake manifold, 850 carb, it was getting about 550hp, on pump gas in a 65 coup Mustang. I sold it though. I miss it. The cost was about $10,000.00 for all the rebuild including magnifluxed and balance. It wouldn't take a 427 kit, I got it maxed out for what it was able to.
I love the sound of Ford small blocks ive built many of them! I’ve been out of racing for 12+ years now I’d love to get another Fox box but I don’t think I could justify building another 10,000 dollar engine when u can get a 5.3 and a turbo for peanuts and make more power. Back in the day I would never put a Chevy in a Ford I would never even consider it but say u have a fox mustang that u wanna build a stroker and make real power well u gotta start with an aftermarket block which is 3,000 bucks that’s more then u would spend on a junkyard 5.3, re ring it, cam, valve springs, turbo and get it installed in the car if u do the work urself obviously. The last mustang I had I built a 12:1 compression 349 stroker (it was .040 over so a 347 just .010 bigger bore), it was 550hp but the amount of money to build it wasn’t worth it IMO. When I build these motors I use the main stud girdle that requires machining the main caps almost nobody does this style because it requires machining but it is the most effective way to make the mains not walk it ties the entire main cap surface into the girdle not just where the bolts go so all the mains are helping each other and also I use studs not bolts for the mains and this really helps from the mains walking and cracking the main webbing. I still don’t want to make more power then the 550hp I was making because of the money involved in building the engine these block always crack and blow apart around these power levels so putting some nitrous on could ruin the motor. Another thing I feel that is good to do with these engines is too make sure everything is tight like ur intake bolts and everything will just support the block as a whole better but ur rolling the dice after 500hp. With a 5.3 u have a much stronger block and aluminum heads that have decent size valves and runners stock. The only reason to keep a Ford engine is so people don’t make fun of u or u don’t believe in that. I would much rather blow up a 5.3 I got from the junkyard then an engine I spent 10k on.
I would love to see a dyno comparison between their final setup and a set of 4, down draft Weber carbs. Just in case I ever get my Cobra kit car build started.
Probably not much. Vid after vid on UA-cam shows consistently the same thing and that's a single 4bbl has a slight edge in NA applications even over EFI and multi carb setups. Charge cooling is the reason it beats EFI. EFI of course is far more practical as a daily driver and the power loss over a single 4bbl is only small. Of course multi carbs are very visually exciting. I like 2x 4bbls.
@@ThePaulv12 Back during Fords racing program with the Mk 1 GT40, running the 289, Carrol Shelby said the down draft Webber’s were worth 40hp over the best single 4 barrel/intake at that time. It would be interesting to see how they compare today.
@@shanebarron2384 - The available single 4 bbl intake manifolds back then were garbage compared to what are readily available today. 4 bbl carbs have also improved quite a bit.
I agree that single 4bbl intakes are way better than what was available 50 years ago… however it would still be interesting to see the dyno graph overlay from a quad downdraft Weber/Mikuni’s setup vs the best single 4bbl and single plane intake.
The only truly expensive FE component, any more, is the block. True 427 dimension blocks are big bucks. The bore stroke of the 427 was unlike any other FE. The bore was huge compared to the other FEs and other FE blocks can't be bored that large. 428s aren't the same and come to the displacement by stroke rather than bore.
Always Always Always make sure that the crankshaft bearings, connecting rod bearings, cylinder walls, piston skirts ect... get a layer of clean oil on them before assembly. I have seen engines seize upon start up from failure to take these simple steps.
I've got close to the same combination. I would like to see you guys use the Howard's 224455-09 instead of the 224455-12 to see if it makes more horsepower and torque
For me im lucky I own a 351 Windsor pushed out to a 427 all Debured oiling system improved all Roller rockers and chain titanium valves bronze Guides Heads ported and Majorly polished with a Supercharger for a lighting 95 f150 and 42 pound injector and Dynoed at 875 horse power and all in a 94 Mustang GT and have No problem in cleaning house on the 2 ton coyote Mustangs
i was watching this Turkish channel on UA-cam, they rebuilt an engine on the dirt. didnt use a mic or torque wrench. rod, crank, heads nothing was torqued. lol shit ran tho.. smh
@@kesinlikleinsandegil958 my bad, its (Pakistani trucks) is the name of the youtube channel. u will see. right in the dirt. no mic or toque wrenches.. lol
I'd like to see hor cheap 393w builds! I"d have to dive thru the barn, but i got the parts to build that! I'll be going in a 94F150 flareside! Can't use what you can't hook up anyway! Build a cheap 5 liter piston, Windsor rod, pressed pin 306 piston motor! Big hydraulic roller cam that will drop right in my 95 roller block! I got heads!
That's true, but fitting a Windsor block into a mid-sized street car like a Mustang or Fairlane is a whole lot easier than an FE. Race car with no inner fenders, doesn't matter. But a street car, with inner fenders and the factory shock towers make changing the plugs on an FE a time consuming and knuckle busting process. Plus the Windsor is lighter, and if you ever want to change the intake manifold it's no comparison.
@@bigboreracing356 4K to 7K rpm power band seems a little high for a street engine. Especially in a heavier 72 Gran Torino Sport, with a C6 automatic, A/C, PS, 3.25 gear ratio.
Torque is going to be massive from idle to that rpm, torque never dropped below 350 on that run.. It is a big cam so don't expect it to run great at super low rpm, this seems to be a race engine, slap some boost n be over 1,000hp easily..
@@johnterpack3940 Ppl do it all the time nowadays, the Coyote Mustangs are a perfect example of high compression n boost, the 3rd gen has 12 for compression.. I've always leaned towards low compression but i guess it's how new engines get it done now..
I want to buy a 351w stroked to 427 where can I look to buy one? I've looked on the internet but results aren't very clear or helpful in picking one. If you have any advice I would be very grateful. Thank you for your time.
What is a cost estimate for something like this with a shop doing the work? I'm out of the loop on car stuff, but remember in the late 80s and early 90s when someone getting a chevy 427 for 3 grand in need of a rebuild was considered expensive. There were engine shops in or close to pretty much any town of size, and maybe most of them are gone because little is rebuilt by the public, but total cost for a rebuild back then was probably some fraction of an engine and we considered it "expensive".
Freeze plugs won't stop a block from cracking if it freezes. There are too many places where the ice would be trapped, those few holes won't relieve the pressure. Those holes are not designed to stop cracking. They are remnants of the casting process. Those are the holes that allow the sand in the core molds to be drained out after casting. Threaded plugs are actually a very good idea. I've had standard "freeze plugs" pop out before. You pretty much instantly lose all your coolant. That's bad. I've never had a block freeze. Never even heard of it happening.
@@hollowpoint357sw4 they still use a granular/powdery substance to form the core molds. That material still has to be drained from inside. And for the vast majority of casting done today, yes, it is still sand. Sand isn't just the stuff you find on beaches. It's not 1920's technology.
I have two 408 Windsor's currently; the mild build gets 2 light-poles per gallon. The hot build gets 2 fence posts per gallon. But in all seriousness, I get 10 to 14 with the mild build. I've never checked the other as I don't really want to know!
I have a question when watching 70s car chases like in the movie (white lightning 1973) what engine noise do they use for gators car? What engine makes that sound?
Would this be good for a 29 MODEL A TUDOR on a DEUCE CHASSIS Street Rod build? I've been trying to find a unique Ford engine and tranny for the build before I get the chassis built. So I can have everything planned out before I start spending money. Thanks for any input in advance. So for I've commented on at least 100 car vids with no luck. If no one says anything I'm turning it into a 4x4 with a jeep chassis. Lol.
I would have loved to see a high output engine like this dynoed first with the factory 5.0 Mustang tubular exhaust manifolds. Then see how much larger pipes are worth.
Is there a difference between the 351w 5.8 manufactured in the 70's and the EFI, from the 90's? Can I apply this setup and parts to the 351 5.8 EFI engine?
Built my 427 but based it on the Dart block. Used same heads but the Eddy Super Victor. Compression 10.3 and a Lunati hyd. roller with 241/249 and .600 lift. 6 years ago put on the Price Motorsport dual Holley inline intake with a pair of custom Holleys flowing 660 cfm. Still going strong after 11 years now and it is in my 1985 Mustang LX coupe! 480 HP at the wheels with 505 Torque all in by 5700 RPM.
i would love to have a 427 windsor in my 95 sn95
@@jsigafoo Only thing is, I think you'd get beat up all day by coyotes
Thats alot of motor for 480 whp
I was going to skip the extra tip at the end and I seriously learned something. Thanks guys! Glad I didn't skip it.
I'm always bummed, and surprised actually, that basically none of the engine builders on UA-cam give us viewers maybe 8-10 seconds of idle time. Man, us street guys love that! We want to hear what kind of chop the builds make and how they would fare in the real world. Vacuum too. What stall you'd need on an auto, and that they'd reliably idle with a stick where it's a PIA to keep blipping the throttle while holding the brake and clutch. I'm thinking more about carved applications here.
did you miss the dyno run?
Ran a 4.17 stroke x 4.03 bore windsor for years from 2005-2014. Made as much as 545 rwhp on a dynojet chassis dyno(with a 5spd tremec) and ran as fast as 10.15 @ 132 MPH in a 3150 lb foxbody coupe with a C4 trans,pump 92-93 octane.
All off the shelf parts. AFR 225 heads,Super Victor Edelbrock intake,Herbert mild solid roller cam,1 3/4 headers 3" X pipe and MAC 3" catback with tailpipes.
I am looking to build a 427 in the future.
I'll use my AFR 205 heads and super victor. Then order up a custom cam.
Jees...3150lb fox coupe? That thing was heavy asf. Did you purposely add weight lol?!
@@rudde67ssm62 Nah. That's about right. If he's still had everything inside it.
@@I_like_turtles_67 wrong......
@@rudde67ssm62 Might have added a cage and gone to a 9 inch.
With the 950cfm carb, they saw best performance at 30 degrees of timing, then a bit of a fall-off when they advanced to 32 degrees. Why did you not simply revert back to 30 degrees of timing, then put the big 1150cfm dominator carb on to see if that made a difference? Are you going to leave this engine at 32 degrees of timing, knowing that it does better at 30?
@@bigboreracing356 That's not the point that he was making. Now who's the More Ron?
Yes, I wondered the same thing about the timing. Also, why not dykem and exhibit the pattern the roller rockers are leaving on end of valve tip , aka the 'walk'. Save those valve guides, side load wears out guides ! Maybe that was done throughout all 16 with a push rod length checker before they ordered the set of pushrods. Great video BTW.
@@Lifeistooshort67 Ole No prep there just tends to make ignorant statements on things he knows nothing about to be annoying. Just last week he was telling me how Chrysler engines were really cheap to build in the seventies. Being that I was a Ford and Chrysler supporter in the 70s and understood the lack of aftermarket support for them compared to GM it was a little annoying. I'm sure he's about 16 and is pretty sure he knows just about everything. Ignore him and maybe he'll find a squirrel to entertain him out his window.
They also didn't say that they DIDN'T set the timing back to 30° I'd be pretty sure they actually did, that carb shouldn't have added horsepower, to me, it sounded like they were trying it to dispell the myth that an oversized carb would flood the engine.
Exactly, which means the same, but likely different and opposite. Other than that, perfectly identical theories.
Awesome motor guys!!! I love that windsor warrior 🇺🇸💪💪👊🏻 keep the H.P. Vidoes coming, we love em… 🤘🏻
In SOHC form, the FE 427 won NHRA championships in AA/FD, Funny car and AA/GS not to mention Lemans. Most versatile V8 ever.
I love the Fe big block, but this is a Windsor
The SOHC never ran LeMans
THANK YOU!!
Been waiting for a new episode.
Nothing is ever mentioned about it, but ARP has filled an area that was totally lacking. The new items they design are clever and them rolling the threads onto the fasteners instead of single point chasing them is a major plus. I hope they never run out of ideas!
Love these builds. so lucky to access all the great parts.
Would love to see this engine back and do a solid roller swap and see the difference between the cams and power.
Yes solid roller and high compression on e85 should be the final part of every build.
Perfect! Just the engine I want for my 427 Cobra replica I'm building. First is the hard part, pricing the build!
@@herbtender910 can’t wait to put an LS in my Falcon more horsepower and better mpg sign me up!
About $8500 including labor from carburetor to oil pan. I just built one for a friend with a mechanical roller cam. Very simple build.
@@StainlessTIG2 Wanna build another?
600hp in a 2300lb car? See ya in the weeds.
this exact particular engine is about 15k
Learn something new everyday. Back in the day just torquing fasteners to proper spec was considered good enough. Now you must measure bolt stretch in some extreme applications. Cool!
Nice to see the old Ford Windsor 351cu in engine being repurposed as a high performance 7 Litre/427cu in road monster.
I had a 351w stroked to 408 in a 66 mustang in the 90’s. I always wondered how much more power I could of had with a 427 stroker. 👍🏼
HP is in the heads/cam and torque is in the cubes...
That is a tight fit with the high deck height of the 351.
Not much. Back in the 90s, the 427 stroker was a lousy engine. The earlier versions were just a marketing gimmick capitalizing on the 427 name, but they had poor rod angles due to being so overstroked. They suffered from piston slap, rod failures and short lifespans. Current versions of the "427 stroker/W/R" don't have a single Ford part on them. They're just parts bin race engines. Nothing wrong with that, but can't be called a "Ford 427" with a straight face, IMHO.
probably enough horsepower to twist the frame
Great video, lots of specs, not a lot of bs, enjoyable to watch. Keep up the great vids.
Bolt a serious set of heads on anything and it will make great power. Nice build.
You can use dial calipers on the rod bolts. That dial indicator isn’t necessary but, it is a nice dedicated setup.
🤠 *You 2 Guys Are Outstanding, And A Great Example Of Methodical & Thorough Working Dream T.E.A.M.= Togetherness, Each Accomplish More 2 Geter Done, Having Fun* 😎
Don't forget the 427 SOHC Cammer V8 as well.
I love the videos, I really wish I knew more about intake centerline, and vacuum readings since I grew up in an era of fuel injection finding good carburetor tuning is really difficult
My mom bought 351w equipped Mustang in ‘69. I got to drive it as a teen, delivering fried chicken around Marina del Rey, CA. Great tips for very quick deliveries.
Great video guys! Lots of great information! 😀💯
I have a 352 FE and a 351W both waiting to get stroked to 427. Should be a fun comparison.
It was mentioned that the 427-powered Cobras won the GT Championship. Actually it was the 289-powered Cobras, primarily Daytona's, that won the FIA World GT Championship. The 427FE won in NASCAR, NHRA, SCCA A-Production (Cobra Roadsters), and FIA Prototype racing (Ford GT Mk II and Mk IV), winning LeMans and many other races.
Yep. The 427 Cobra race effort was essentially abandoned by Shelby because the shop couldn't keep up with the Mustang, GT-40 and other projects. Shelby was stretched too thin, and the 427 Cobras were demanding when it came to chassis tuning and setup.
@@randomologist77 A friend who worked for Shelby on the race team said that Ford ordered the Daytona's retired to concentrate on the GT-40's. He also said that Ford insisted on the switch to the 427FE in the GT's so they could sell more Galaxies and Country Squires with big blocks. Apparently Shelby, and many of his guys, felt the small block had plenty of potential left and there was no need to switch to the big/heavy engines. In fact, the GT-40 initially used the OHV Ford Indy 256 cu in/375 hp OHV engine. Ford created DOHC heads for the Indy V-8 and got about 425 hp out of it. Parnelli Jones had a 5.0 liter version of the DOHC Indy engine (in a Lola T-70) with maybe 500 hp. And, later on, John Wyer's Gulf team used the small block (302) with Gurney-Weslake heads to win LeMans twice ('68 & '69). It looks like Shelby was right that the small blocks still had more potential. Since then, we've seen the small blocks punched out to as much as 427 cubic inches.
@@randomologist77 Couldn't find your other reply about the 427 FE, so here's my answer. I should have said Ford wanted to sell FE engines in station wagons, coupes and sedans. Specifically 390's and 428's, not the race oriented, and expensive, 427's. Salesman were supposed to tell Joe Public, "why that 390 in the Country Squire is (virtually) the same engine that just won at Daytona (or LeMans)." Same with the 426 cubic inch so-called "428." It was given that name so people wouldn't try to race it (most race classes were limited to a max of 427 cubes). Then eventually, Ford started offering racing versions of the supposedly non-racing 428 (CJ and SCJ). Anyway, "Race on Sunday, sell on Monday" always depended on selling cars with the same brand or model name, not with the actual same equipment.
@@michaeldelaney7271 I deleted the response because there's just a lot of ground covered. The 428 (4.132 x 3.980) is technically 427ci (426.96ish), the 427 FE (4.233 x 3.784) is technically 426ci, but Ford allowed some finish hone wiggle room in there to get the 427 to "427." Ford made a concerted effort to market the 428 with special drag pack edition Mustangs with the CJ so the idea they didn't want it to be raced seems suspect. The 428 was just inferior to the 427 in race applications as it was a purpose built street engine, not a purpose built race engine like the 427 that was unsuitable for typical production car use. The only reason the 428 even came into being was the 390 being outmatched by upcoming and recently released competitor street engines from GM and Mopar like the the 440 and the L36 427s.
While Ford no doubt wanted to use the 427 FE's potential victories for propaganda's sake, they were looking to win first and the 289 wasn't a winner and probably wasn't going to be a winner at Le Mans. Ford would have been happy to tell Joe Public their 289 engine was the one that won at Le Mans if it came down to it. Also, the small blocks had a long future ahead while FE engines were already in their swan song stage with the 385 series in development. The 289 was overmatched and unreliable at the power levels the GT40 needed to achieve to win at Le Mans. The 255ci Indy V8 was an incredibly exotic and wild engine. Custom aluminum block, DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder, fuel injection, gear drive timing, 12.5:1 CR and unusable below 6,000rpm with an 8,300rpm redline. The 255 still made 60hp less than the intentionally rpm restricted 427 in the GT40s and the 255 was only designed to run 3hrs, not 24hrs. Even if they wanted to use it, Ford didn't have time to devote to a build program for the Indy engine for Le Mans and it was not an engine they could market as it had nothing in common with the production engines.
Also, from my understanding, the drivers made the call to go with the 427 after it proved Ford's point of view by blowing track records out of the water. It was just a no brainer. The 427 was more powerful, more reliable and more forgiving with an ability to pull well down under 2,000rpm. Shelby wanted lighter weights and after the successes of the 427 were proven again, Shelby begged (and was denied) the 427 for the Mustangs, instead getting the 428 as 427 production couldn't be ramped up even if Ford wanted to do it.
@@randomologist77 I'm sorry about getting mixed up on the FE's various displacements. "427's" are actually 426 cu. in. and "428's" are actually 427 cu. in. I had always heard that Ford absolutely did not want to call one of their engines a "426" as that was a famous MoPar Max Wedge and Hemi designation.
Now that's a small block. FO MO CO baby.
Ya, 1000th like. Good work guys, love seeing those Windsors.
I learned the most at the end of the show about fastener stretch although I am 19 so I don’t know near as much as alotta guys watching this
A motor like that would be EXCELLENT to put in my 1989 LTD Crown Victoria...
Cool sleeper
1981 Lincoln Towncar
Would be awesome
The Championship Cobra was the small block Cobra that still used the Triumph front suspension and Jag E- type rear suspension that came on all the original unchanged small Cobras. The big block Cobras had an overgrown body with completely different chassis and suspension, brakes steering, etc. etc. But the spelling of Cobra was still original.
The 289's spinning to 8K is what won all the championships in the cobras and daytona coupes. Loved this build- great job. Never discussed what the maximun safe RPM was.
Great video Ford powered forever baby l love learning about the small block Ford awesome setup
I read about doing this in the 90s. Always wanted to do one. Now it's almost common.
Wow.... taking a 351w to 7000rpm.
The last time I ran a 351w I had all I could do to get her up to 5500...and she probably stopped making power before 5500.
I did manage to squeeze 322hp out of her,She was out of breath around 4700.
Back then there were no aluminium heads etc for the 351w and add to that I really didn't have the know -how to really understand what I was doing.
She still ran very good,Spanked a few other cars around,But she didn't have the power like your engine
Over 600hp!!! It just wasn't possible for most of us..you want more RPMs you had to consider moving up to a 351C or really do some wizardry on a 390,428 or a 429... skills and money which I didn't possess
It's impressive that the aftermarket took the Windsor head and modified it to the point that 500+ HP engines are possible. I wonder why Ford couldn't design a decent Windsor head from the beginning?
I would like that one day they do a program in which they teach some tricks to improve oil pressure and lubrication for those 351w
They won’t do anything that isn’t tossing a bunch of sponsored parts at a project.
Same reason they won’t massage stock parts to make more HP, there’s a whole class of drag racing based on stock appearances where people make 10 second passes on cast iron heads and manifolds, you won’t see that here either because there’s no sponsor cash
A very good descriptive video you guys. What a gas.
That's all nice, but in my experience with a 2 bolt main block and less stroke at just 4" (408), I had some pretty signicficant amount of cap walk and fretting of the mating surfaces. That was with the external 28oz imbalance crank that was balanced to the rotating assy. too. This was 6K rev limited and used for a road race application so lots of extended RPM times. This is a lot of weight and a BIG arm swinging around to try to control with cast iron 2 bolt mains. It might be OK for limited street use and the occational rip down the dragstrip, but not the best idea for a race application or high RPM with extended times. OK for budget street stuff, though.
@Emerald Triangle Who are you referring to?
yes it will run on pump gas but that set up would do so much better on racing fuel . put 110 to 120 octane thru the intake and set it to 30 degrees that would let it will lift the front end on any old ford it would also make the engine a lot happier. they were made to run on high octane back in the day and even the aftermarket blocks love the high octane juice.
My buddy is getting ready to build us a Windsor. We're going .60 over bore and he's gonna build the internals to be ready for a nitrous plate down the road. For now, we're gonna be running a Holley Sniper EFI setup. This will be taking place of my factory 351M-2bbl which is currently pulling 9mpg at best in our '79F-150.
@ 6:06 in...I am busting at the ears man...I can't wait to see what that baby puts out...trick everything...that crank...H beam rods...spec pistons...I knew a guy from Canada...had his own shop...he spent a lot of cash on a Teflon button 350, I know Earning had some great parts in the engine...dang...A Vegas transplant & he was an HONORABLE MAN...I MUST ADD...GOOD GUY...HE TOWED HIS EL CAMINO TO LAUGHLIN FOR THE STREET CAR SHOW...THEY HAD BURN OUT CONTESTS...(I honestly don't know if he broke that engine in...) BUT ON BURN OUT NIGHT...HE GOT ON IT...ONE IF THE PISTONS FRIED...Back to trailer & home...Sad for him...after I lost track because I wasn't in area any longer...wah...
AWESOME!!
If you start with a big block, and added similar upgrades, wouldn't more cubes produce more power?
Ain't no substitute for cubic inches, right?
Yes you are right
Great video guys...Pat great beard too!
You guys obviously know what your doing with engines. Especially Pat… With the whole pro drag racing engine stuff… My question is, why does everyone spray copper seal on cometic head gaskets when they say not to?
Today's parts make it easy to make 500+ hp 351w based strokers.
Wish we could get linked parts lists for these. The links in the description never take you to the part!
pay attention to the beginning. they say its available at summit and they gave you the name as well. look it up
A Holley Hi-Ram fuel-injection with a little less camshaft would be an ideal street engine. Very impressive numbers.
Hella nice
Hey guys love the show. I know you’ve done plenty of Windsor builds but I’d love to see how far you can take the ford motorsports alloy z351 block with borla stack injection. Some are saying you can get 460cui out of these.
Better looking than any LS out there.
Another great video, guys! 🙂 Thank you. How much would a 427 Windsor to that specification cost, roughly?
Paul 😎
15-20k. I’m currently getting one built now with a blower and direct port and it’s 25k ish to 30k
There's no such thing as a 427 Windsor. It's a 427 Stroker. As opposed to the factory FE 427 (sideoiler or topoiler) and 427 Cammer (AKA 7.0 SOHC).
A factory stroked 351 Windsor crate is the 427 Boss, and when you stroke a 351 Cleveland, it's known as a 427 Clever. If you stroke a 351 Windsor block using 351 Cleveland top end (or vice vsrsa) it's called a 427 Clevor or 427 Windland.
@@RockandrollNegro Thanks, Marvin. I know.
Paul 😎
look it up in Summit Racing, this motor is 13-15 grand
@@RockandrollNegro not really , a 427 stroked engine with inline heads from a Windsor block in called a 427 Windsor ...
I had bought a 69 351w, $500.00 used, short story I got it rebuilt to a 418ci all high performance, choppy Comp Cam, roller rockers victor junior heads, highrise intake manifold, 850 carb, it was getting about 550hp, on pump gas in a 65 coup Mustang. I sold it though. I miss it. The cost was about $10,000.00 for all the rebuild including magnifluxed and balance. It wouldn't take a 427 kit, I got it maxed out for what it was able to.
This is a fun episode.
Awesome
I love the sound of Ford small blocks ive built many of them! I’ve been out of racing for 12+ years now I’d love to get another Fox box but I don’t think I could justify building another 10,000 dollar engine when u can get a 5.3 and a turbo for peanuts and make more power. Back in the day I would never put a Chevy in a Ford I would never even consider it but say u have a fox mustang that u wanna build a stroker and make real power well u gotta start with an aftermarket block which is 3,000 bucks that’s more then u would spend on a junkyard 5.3, re ring it, cam, valve springs, turbo and get it installed in the car if u do the work urself obviously. The last mustang I had I built a 12:1 compression 349 stroker (it was .040 over so a 347 just .010 bigger bore), it was 550hp but the amount of money to build it wasn’t worth it IMO. When I build these motors I use the main stud girdle that requires machining the main caps almost nobody does this style because it requires machining but it is the most effective way to make the mains not walk it ties the entire main cap surface into the girdle not just where the bolts go so all the mains are helping each other and also I use studs not bolts for the mains and this really helps from the mains walking and cracking the main webbing. I still don’t want to make more power then the 550hp I was making because of the money involved in building the engine these block always crack and blow apart around these power levels so putting some nitrous on could ruin the motor. Another thing I feel that is good to do with these engines is too make sure everything is tight like ur intake bolts and everything will just support the block as a whole better but ur rolling the dice after 500hp. With a 5.3 u have a much stronger block and aluminum heads that have decent size valves and runners stock. The only reason to keep a Ford engine is so people don’t make fun of u or u don’t believe in that. I would much rather blow up a 5.3 I got from the junkyard then an engine I spent 10k on.
I would love to see this same motor on the dino with Holley EFI on it :)))
@@bigboreracing356 in what aspect ? To a gravity-fed carburetor .
T TANA It's Dyno not Dino.
@@wysetech2000 Tru Dat . Freaking speech to text
I was thinking about that same thing.
It's what I want to put in my 88 town car.
@@shanerichardson9568 lol its already fuel injected.
I would love to see a dyno comparison between their final setup and a set of 4, down draft Weber carbs. Just in case I ever get my Cobra kit car build started.
Probably not much. Vid after vid on UA-cam shows consistently the same thing and that's a single 4bbl has a slight edge in NA applications even over EFI and multi carb setups. Charge cooling is the reason it beats EFI.
EFI of course is far more practical as a daily driver and the power loss over a single 4bbl is only small.
Of course multi carbs are very visually exciting. I like 2x 4bbls.
@@ThePaulv12
Back during Fords racing program with the Mk 1 GT40, running the 289, Carrol Shelby said the down draft Webber’s were worth 40hp over the best single 4 barrel/intake at that time. It would be interesting to see how they compare today.
@@shanebarron2384 - The available single 4 bbl intake manifolds back then were garbage compared to what are readily available today. 4 bbl carbs have also improved quite a bit.
I agree that single 4bbl intakes are way better than what was available 50 years ago… however it would still be interesting to see the dyno graph overlay from a quad downdraft Weber/Mikuni’s setup vs the best single 4bbl and single plane intake.
My buddy put a 351 Windsor in a 64 Mustang he had to use the 289 manifolds to fit in between the two towers
They have these hemi heads for a Ford block kinda wanna see these on the show expensive as sjell
The only truly expensive FE component, any more, is the block. True 427 dimension blocks are big bucks. The bore stroke of the 427 was unlike any other FE. The bore was huge compared to the other FEs and other FE blocks can't be bored that large. 428s aren't the same and come to the displacement by stroke rather than bore.
Always Always Always
make sure that the crankshaft bearings, connecting rod bearings, cylinder walls, piston skirts ect...
get a layer of clean oil on them before assembly.
I have seen engines seize upon start up from failure to take these simple steps.
I hate how TV show will always leave out cam spec's. Duration and LIFT!!! we want to know it all. Glad they've gotten better at this.
I've got close to the same combination. I would like to see you guys use the Howard's 224455-09 instead of the 224455-12 to see if it makes more horsepower and torque
If you add up the cost of this build, you are close to the cost of 427FE build. Love the channel keep up the good work 👍👍
Yes and I would rather have the FE 427's stronger block and components.
Ls who? Never heard of her,
Hot rod mag did a 392 inch windsor. It made 748 horsepower.
Absolutely awesome
That is beautiful eye candy
lovely songs !
from the looks of it, they appeared to be degreeing the cam with the #2 cylinder(first cylinder on the right side of the motor)
Front cylinder on passenger side is #1. Fords are numbered 1,2,3,4 down the passenger side, 5,6,7,8 down the driver's side.
Seeing pat without his hair slicked is more unsettling than I feel it should be.
For me im lucky I own a 351 Windsor pushed out to a 427 all Debured oiling system improved all Roller rockers and chain titanium valves bronze Guides Heads ported and Majorly polished with a Supercharger for a lighting 95 f150 and 42 pound injector and Dynoed at 875 horse power and all in a 94 Mustang GT and have No problem in cleaning house on the 2 ton coyote Mustangs
i was watching this Turkish channel on UA-cam, they rebuilt an engine on the dirt. didnt use a mic or torque wrench. rod, crank, heads nothing was torqued. lol shit ran tho.. smh
May I know the name of that channel?
@@kesinlikleinsandegil958 my bad, its (Pakistani trucks) is the name of the youtube channel. u will see. right in the dirt. no mic or toque wrenches.. lol
@@charlesgraham9954 I don't understand how those engines work.
@@kesinlikleinsandegil958 lmfao.. i told u.
How many co-Hosts has Mike gone through on this show ?
Rumor has it he adds a new pen to his pocket for every new co-host he has.
Every new host he has he seems to grow more hair aswell 😅
@@garypic4083 , there is probably an App for that :)
I think Pat’s had more
This show was 5 yrs ago
NICE! Is this an off the shelf package from Summit?
I’d love to put that motor in a ‘88-‘90 Mustang GT fastback
Then do it!
I'd like to see hor cheap 393w builds! I"d have to dive thru the barn, but i got the parts to build that! I'll be going in a 94F150 flareside! Can't use what you can't hook up anyway! Build a cheap 5 liter piston, Windsor rod, pressed pin 306 piston motor! Big hydraulic roller cam that will drop right in my 95 roller block! I got heads!
I priced up FE BB and it wasn't much more than this Windsor build.
That's true, but fitting a Windsor block into a mid-sized street car like a Mustang or Fairlane is a whole lot easier than an FE. Race car with no inner fenders, doesn't matter. But a street car, with inner fenders and the factory shock towers make changing the plugs on an FE a time consuming and knuckle busting process. Plus the Windsor is lighter, and if you ever want to change the intake manifold it's no comparison.
why not put it back to 30 for the dominator?
Comment for the algorithm 👍love this stuff
When can we see a Track Boss 351C on your channel
I’d like to see the torque numbers from idle to 4,000 rpm, being a street engine.
@@bigboreracing356 4K to 7K rpm power band seems a little high for a street engine. Especially in a heavier 72 Gran Torino Sport, with a C6 automatic, A/C, PS, 3.25 gear ratio.
Torque is going to be massive from idle to that rpm, torque never dropped below 350 on that run.. It is a big cam so don't expect it to run great at super low rpm, this seems to be a race engine, slap some boost n be over 1,000hp easily..
@@P71ScrewHead I agree.
@@P71ScrewHead How do you slap boost on an 11.3:1 engine?
@@johnterpack3940 Ppl do it all the time nowadays, the Coyote Mustangs are a perfect example of high compression n boost, the 3rd gen has 12 for compression.. I've always leaned towards low compression but i guess it's how new engines get it done now..
How does this engine sound so good? Explanation please!
I want to buy a 351w stroked to 427 where can I look to buy one? I've looked on the internet but results aren't very clear or helpful in picking one. If you have any advice I would be very grateful. Thank you for your time.
If your still looking for 1 i have 1 for sale brand new.
@@GJ-DT is it dressed or undressed?
What is a cost estimate for something like this with a shop doing the work? I'm out of the loop on car stuff, but remember in the late 80s and early 90s when someone getting a chevy 427 for 3 grand in need of a rebuild was considered expensive. There were engine shops in or close to pretty much any town of size, and maybe most of them are gone because little is rebuilt by the public, but total cost for a rebuild back then was probably some fraction of an engine and we considered it "expensive".
I miss the hesitation kick of an old style four barrel carburetor 🤷♂️🤪👍.
That big breath before all hell hits the rear tires...👍😎😉
Trick flow 240 highports then turn it to 7k. Leave the 950. I wanna see that.
check out the mini skirt pistons !
What good are threaded freeze plugs? The looked like they were cast metal won’t the block crack?
I was wondering the same thing
Freeze plugs won't stop a block from cracking if it freezes. There are too many places where the ice would be trapped, those few holes won't relieve the pressure. Those holes are not designed to stop cracking. They are remnants of the casting process. Those are the holes that allow the sand in the core molds to be drained out after casting. Threaded plugs are actually a very good idea. I've had standard "freeze plugs" pop out before. You pretty much instantly lose all your coolant. That's bad. I've never had a block freeze. Never even heard of it happening.
@@johnterpack3940 This at ain’t the 1920s they don’t cast blocks in sand anymore.
@@hollowpoint357sw4 they still use a granular/powdery substance to form the core molds. That material still has to be drained from inside. And for the vast majority of casting done today, yes, it is still sand. Sand isn't just the stuff you find on beaches. It's not 1920's technology.
Did you forget to set the thrust clearance ?
Why is it your business what they forget stay out of it
Nice job guys. Great power output. But what about the fuel mileage? Theoretically!
Lmfao!
I have two 408 Windsor's currently; the mild build gets 2 light-poles per gallon. The hot build gets 2 fence posts per gallon. But in all seriousness, I get 10 to 14 with the mild build. I've never checked the other as I don't really want to know!
@@cgarris8674 👍
A couple gpm, but who cares.
There's always that one dingleberry who has to ask fuel mileage on some crazy horsepower engine. No one is building these for fuel economy dingbat.
Nice build
Man I want to build a f!ing 351w now, my 5.0 sounds so sweet though
hey you two , how about retesting the 351w engine with the new 4.25 stroker crank shaft and with a LOW END TORQUE camshaft and not the high rpm one`s
I have a question when watching 70s car chases like in the movie (white lightning 1973) what engine noise do they use for gators car? What engine makes that sound?
Would this be good for a 29 MODEL A TUDOR on a DEUCE CHASSIS Street Rod build? I've been trying to find a unique Ford engine and tranny for the build before I get the chassis built. So I can have everything planned out before I start spending money. Thanks for any input in advance. So for I've commented on at least 100 car vids with no luck. If no one says anything I'm turning it into a 4x4 with a jeep chassis. Lol.
Wondering how this set up would be in my 1989 f150 supercab
2 wheel or 4 wheel drive? If it's a lowered 2 wheel drive, this motor would make it a nice little hot rod...
@@waynefontaine5533 it's a 2 stock ride height
I would have loved to see a high output engine like this dynoed first with the factory 5.0 Mustang tubular exhaust manifolds. Then see how much larger pipes are worth.
Is there a difference between the 351w 5.8 manufactured in the 70's and the EFI, from the 90's? Can I apply this setup and parts to the 351 5.8 EFI engine?
I got a 351w with a c6 transmission 73000 on it. Running order. For sale. Great shape.
Seriously use the ads
Who knew Tom Green could build a engine