I really appreciate AJ's HONESTY. As a Club Fitter, his INTEGRITY is second to none. Others would glady make the extra $$$ and convince someone to get their golf shafts PUREd.
It's a game of money but the only people winning are the ones out competing every week. This snake oil is for the average Joe's willing to blow the cash.
SST Pure installation places the stiffest portion of the shaft (PPOP) in the target line (9:00-3:00) not the 12-6 position as AJ mentioned. Also as noted below in the comments, other tests show there is an appreciable difference in distance and dispersion between a pured shaft and what I believe was a random shaft plane. If AJ installed the the pured shaft incorrectly 12/6 vs 9/3 maybe that's why there is not a clear winner? I think where the benefit of puring is useful is consistency throughout the clubs. Personally, I've only had shafts pured for educational purposes and to confirm that Flo'ing a shaft is adequate for my or my customers needs. SST Shaft Puring is an expensive option at $20/shaft which I feel would be better spent on lessons from a local pro. Overall a good video and it sparked a good discussion. Also, AJ has the cleanest and neatest shop I've seen!
Damn Randy that's a really good point... you blew my mind with this. Yes mobile Club maker guy did say that the puring side was supposed to be at 12 position. but you're saying it's 9:00 to 3:00 as in right down the target line where the face is pointing.. Let me tell you why that makes this really interesting... because the mobile Club maker guy answered a question above where someone said "the only way to properly do this test would to be have one pured properly in correct position and the other basically be the worst orientation possible opposite of the pured side..." His answer was yes one was pured properly at 12:00 and the other non pured was put in roughly the 4:00 position.... Wow, so with the information you're saying that basically means he had them backwards. what he was calling the non- pured was actually the pured One..?
Puring may well work with non-adjustable clubs. So it is more likely to work with irons. It cannot possibly work with the generation of drivers, fairways and hybrids that are available now. Because of the facility to adjust the loft and lie, (albeit marginally), by way of the hosel orientation, any trueing or puring in the fitted shaft would surely be negated and lost.
@@TLRChad How do they work then? My main experience is with Titleist. When the very first adjustable driver head came out, I was interested in how it worked. A legacy of my engineering background! I got hold of a a Titleist adaptor as used on the 910 range. I set it up between centres and checked the concentricity when the adaptor was turned using a dial test indicator. The change in angle of the head in relation to the shaft is as a result of the change in concentricity between the two ends of the adaptor. It is minimal. In my opinion and a few others, the angle achieved in either loft, lie, or angle of face for draw or fade is negligible and can be achieved using the hands and stance. It all boiled down to a marketing gimmick. That said, Titleist have continued to use the same principle in successive generations. I'm not sold on it. I'd be interested in how other manufacturers claim to achieve these angular changes however.
Honma "pures" all their shafts of which they call spine alignment. All of their drivers and fairway woods (the adjustable ones) have a non-rotating hosel that does NOT spin the shaft when making adjustments, which in turn, keeps the spine alignment always in place. All manufacturers should adopt this proprietary hosel.
You find the loft, lie and shot shape, pull the shaft and orient it in the head with your settings. That's how I do it. I always use an OEM hosel. The longer the shaft, the more it oscillates when installed off plane.
As usual I go the other way, I have worked on clubs for over 35 years, not a pro club builder but I know what I'm doing. I have spined and the did the flow in iron shafts put them together and next day go to the range and hit and document the feel, distance, dispersion. Then take them home, pull the shafts and reshaft in opposite poles and the next day go to the range and hit and write down how they feel, the flight, the distance, the dispersion. It's the shafts that have the spine marked and then the flow found, and shafted the way I want them, that feel, fly and congregate together in better dispersion. My opinion, but that's what is important to me and everyone else. Good video, your findings are your findings but not mine, we can all go our own way and do are own thing, hmmm maybe a song should be written about going are own way, nah.
I build clubs, also. I find the best bend in the shaft while I’m I’m gluing the head. It’s a “feel thing” for me. Works great. No extra cost. Golf is a feel game. Too much tech will spoil the walk.
Part of the benefit is having a constant shaft alignment through the bag…if he can tell a difference between these 2 shafts, that’s enough proof to say that PUREing is worth it. Now, to the point that he prefers the non-pured…what I would do is get like 8 pured 6 irons, each aligned at a different spot around the “clock” hit em all, pick the one you like best, and get pured shafts installed at that configuration.
Damn that's a good idea Dave I didn't look at it that way. I guess even though he chose wrong, just the fact that he indeed felt a noticeable difference is enough to mean something... So maybe he prefers pured side @ 4:30 instead of the traditional 12 o'clock . there's nothing to say that putting the pured Side at 12 is the best orientation as all of it is subjective to feel huh? I like your idea ... I think further testing is necessary...
Great video....As for Puring, if you are going to put $ 1500 into a set of irons...after fitting, then by all means spend the extra $ 35 a club and get it Pured...Then you surely can not blame the club for an miss hits on oscillation which may accure after many shots on the course of a round....But if your only a 9 handicaper...Well Does It Really Matter....Possible...Fitter at Club Champion think so...Happy New Year....
Hahaha ohhh the club could be the perfect club for me. But once something goes wrong you know darn well I’m blaming the club. Couldn’t possibly be me haha.
Loved this video. This begs the question around custom builds. For example club champion will not only fit you for clubs but then try to sell you custom building which adds about 50% to the cost of the clubs. This is versus having the manufacturer build a club for you to your specs. So the question is do custom built clubs perform better than manufacture build and would it be worth it depending upon your handicap? Please do another video addressing this I would love it and fits right into this theme.
Wait wait is custom built to you? If building the head you were fit for and the shaft you choose to your desired length loft and lie angle and even having it hard or soft stepped is not considered custom built, what is???
I'm curious how puring would effect gapping in the irons, too. If the shafts flex along different planes and each club has a random alignment, it might introduce another variable that effects length and/or dispersion club to club.... maybe?
Curious was the shaft pured hard or soft side. You have a choice when requesting puring. It is listed on the printout that is provided with the poured shaft. W
I have a new sand wedge that felt awful and didn’t go my normal distance.. I took it apart and turned the shaft 45 degrees then put back together.. it definitely feels better and now goes my normal yardage…
Super interesting. When I got fitted for my driver, they made a big deal about how they would “pure” it. Then I started playing with it, and needed to adjust the sleeve, and rotate the face, which meant it was no longer “pure.” I was worried I would be giving up something. Happy to see I’m gonna be ok. Life will go on. :)
I heard a story where Jack would take like 20 drivers to the range and start hitting them and sorting them. He would eventually pick about 3 drivers out of the bunch that he was willing to use in competition. The theory is he was picking the ones that just happened to have the spines aligned. I'm not sure that feel is the way to judge aligned vs not? I would think that shot dispersion would be the best measure?
PUREing makes sense. There is likely an "optimal orientation" for right and left handed players when it comes to installing an imperfect circular shaft. Limiting how much deflection occurs seems like a good objective for club builders. However, any old person stands a 1:360 chance of installing the shaft in the "optimal" orientation whether they've had this process done or not. You are simply paying for it to be "ensured" by getting the analysis done. However, I will admit that some of the "statistics" used by PURE are complete marketing garbage (ex. improved by 143% or some shit). All they do is compare initial orientation (which could be correct right out of the gate, but likely not) to PURE orientation (which is understandably the "most stable orientation").
I had my clubs spine & flowed vs pured and what huge difference. S&F lines up shaft seam towards the target & I differently felt the shaft whip more thru impact but not sure how a pure shaft feels.
The old school way that I was taught and I was a certified fitter, club builder and swing instructor. I had a machine that would measure the pressure of the circumference of shaft. This would indicate the highest pressure on the shaft and the lowest pressure. The shaft would be installed depending on the trajectory the golfer wanted or needed. Then the shaft would be installed facing the target with high pressure or low pressure. Every shaft was frequency matched dry fitted all grips and shafts were weighed to include number of wraps needed. Then each club was tested by the customer. 30 years it worked.
I suppose someone who could feel slight changes in shaft orientation would actually benefit with all the shafts aligned the same. I am sure a Nick Faldo or Tiger type has tried pured and non pured sets and have a strong opinion.
I went to get fitted at Club Champion last year. They offered and REALLY tried to sell me on getting my clubs "pured". It was an extra $350. Thankfully I didn't get it done. The clubs still dropped my handicap from a 12.1 to a 6.3 over the course of a season.
Love the collabs with AJ and how you guys are doing these experiments together. Really great explanation of the whole concept and glad to find out it’s all subjective. Now I don’t have to go realign and “PURE” all of my iron shafts 😂
Seen this test done before on TXG, and my question remains…what are the odds that the non-pured shaft was installed close to the pure line? You actually have to “pure” both shafts and then install them opposite of each other, and maybe that’s what they did here, but they didn’t tell us that.
Both shafts were actually pured. While the first shaft was installed in the 12 o'clock orientation, the second one was installed at 4:30. I can definitively say we weren't even close to the pured position on shaft two.
I would imagine the variance is so minute it is irrelevant. Modern manufacturing techniques are so consistent and precise that they would be almost identical no matter what way the shaft was put in.
Not quite understanding the conclusion to this video of whether MSG could feel which club was pured. Are we going to do a dispersion analysis at some point? That is what the spine alignment is really about. That the torque or twisting of the club is either lessened or directed so that there will be less dispersion?
I’ve had many clubs both pured, not pured, and even a few retroactively pured. Only ever saw any difference with what I would call mid grade graphite shaft. For example more mid budget options like Grafalloy. It’s an absolute waste of money on higher end shafts and good quality steel shafts. I remember the first time I got to try the exactly same shafts (Diamana White Board 70x one pured and one not) in the same driver head. My immediate thought was why the hell would I waste my money.
Surely this implies the build tolerance of KBS shafts is very high all around the shaft. This test would be interesting if it was tried on cheaper shafts or ones that are regarded on price to be lower quality. ie in golf even lesser brand name equipment at lower price are still producing quality kit.
If you have ever rolled a steel shaft in an spine alignment tool, (less in a graphite) you would have to think there is something too it. When you roll a steel shaft and feel that “lump” in your fingers there is clearly a spine. I don’t think that that is identical to pureing but there has to be some benefit to orienting that lump.
Problem with any spine finder is it very quickly will find the residual bend that a shaft has and call that the spine. Any shaft with enough bend will overwhelm the spine finder and not give accurate results.
Thanks Matt, for saving me money that I would have spent getting my new irons pured! Although, I would think after spending $1300 on a new set of Apex irons, they WOULDN'T need to be pured! 😎⛳
It's worse than doing nothing - maybe? I wasn't getting enough vertical launch on my driver, so I asked a demo-day guy to change the loft of my driver from 9.5 to 10.5, which it can do. Days later I was at a golf store and the club fitter guy noticed that the shaft was pured and convinced me that the change I made changes the orientation of the shaft, and that my loft change made the shaft non-pure, so he advised against it. Also, if I wanted it that way I would need to re-grip it, because the grip is asymmetric and no longer lined up properly with the face. Mostly because it would make the shaft non-pure I had him put my loft back to 9.5 degrees. I left thinking that a "pured" shaft defeated the ability to change loft on a modern driver. After watching this video I think the concern about the shaft becoming impure is probably not significant. Good to know, thank you!
Did you make sure the unpured shaft was oriented away from the Pured axis? I loved this test especially when the hitter went back and forth then the blind pick. But, the one variable that meds to be right is the the Unpured club was truly oriented away from the pure axis.
Hey Chris that's a great question buddy the only way to perform this test properly would be to Pure both shafts. Then make sure one is pured properly & installed, and the other one is installed opposite of pure... To Answer your question I read a response above from the mobile Club maker guy in this video who assures both clubs were pured. one was installed correctly and the other was installed at roughly the 4:30 position... So yes he did the test properly
only thing i would question is how do we know the non pure shaft wasnt luckily already in the best possible position or close to what puring would have done for it
Because I am building my iron set for myself, I figure out the shaft spine and the whole set feels more consistent. If I would feel any difference in a single club? I do not know, probably not. But before I did build up my own sets I always had one or two clubs out of 7 that felt strange and gave bad results
Feel is subjective. But I have a question. Every time I have been fitted they check the sole pattern on the matt. This tells them if the club is too flat or upright. That said, the puring technique is to make the rate of bend the SAME from one club to the next. That's it . So comparing feel is not the real question. If you took a pair of clubs and compared the divot shape. The pured club and non-pured (assuming non-pured is not by chance set to a pured position.) should vary. Yes?No?? My point is puring is supposed to make the rate of bend through the swing more CONSISTENT, not better in any way. If one club has the spine up and bends less (stiffer) than the next club not spine up (less stiff), the divot strike will be different beause the shaft bend is varying.. In essence since the spine causes the shaft to be stiffer when in a certain position up and more flexible when not, you are taking a chance of setting the bend rate to different rates if not puring. Any thoughts on this aspect?
Cool vid …fellow San dieagon here I’ve bin looking for a video for my driver I just purchased Titlest Tsi2 basically my brother trying to get me to buy a heavier Weightkit on Amazon with different grams for the weight that screws out the back it’s only 50 bucks but was looking for a video to see if that we can actually add ball speed or not that’s what he is claiming ? Wondering if you could help thanx
Mobile Clubmaker channel is awesome. Some unusual topics and AJ has a great way of making the topics interesting. Has a great way of describing things that are often misunderstood, like one video he did on adjustable drivers. Definitely worth checking out.
I just got my Golfworks catalog in the mail let’s go!!! I think I like tinkering more than I like playing…. and Maltby let’s me make a $200 club for $70 let’s go
I worked at GS when Dick Weiss invented the SST Pure process. I worked with him and saw the data from the robot. You are incorrect in the orientation of the alignment. The idea is that the hard side is away from the target and the shaft releases perfectly on plane toward the target. I have personally "Pured" thousands of shafts. All of my shafts are Pured including my putter. Although, when the club maker gets the shaft, it is marked in the 12 o'clock position for installation. That's why you're asked whether it's for a RH or LH golfer when ordered. If it was marked on the trailing side it would be impossible to orient in the club correctly. When I used to sell this to golfers, I would liken it to buying tires. You wouldn't put an $800 set of tires on your car without balancing them. It just makes sense. A must for the better player but also makes sense for the amateur. The amateur golfer hits 2-3 good on plane swings per round. Are you willing to take the chance that your club was oscillating out of plane on your 2-3 good swings you made? Also, spine alignment is better than nothing and is the same concept but is far from the same result.
I've been building / playing Maltby clubs for years now. Hands down, the TE Forged or the DBM forged are stupid forgiving. They are more of a traditionally lofted club. The dispersion is second to none. You literally can slap that ball all over the face from hozel to toe and the damn thing still goes straight! Just buy them, you will NOT be disappointed!
It’s fair to assume that if you get an entire new iron set, puring them all will give you a consistent feel across the board. On that note, I’d be curious to see a handful of pured vs. non-pured irons tested in the same way.
I’m not sure what the purpose of pured shafts. I would think that the consistency of distance gaps between clubs would be the goal. Maybe someone can enlighten us.
Here is the link to see the Trackman Numbers for the two shafts CLICK LINK THEN HIT REFRESH ua-cam.com/channels/uXIBwKQeH9cnLOv7w66cJg.htmlcommunity?lb=UgkxMaip_DQdGSjMBceOCfwraj9ue6FpS73-
Wow, there is literally no difference between the pured and non-pured club. Great point since there are services that charge quite a fee to get your clubs pured.
So what you are telling me is, when I buy new clubs from let's say Titleist, they just put the club together without PUREing the shaft?? Please let me know, thanks. Cool video.
Major manufacturers do not SST PURE shafts before assembly. This process is licensed to 3rd party builders and fitters and is sold as an add on. The clubs you buy from Titleist will not be PUREd. What is really important to understand is that 1 Shafts are very well made at this point and very consistent and 2 even if a shaft was "bad", PUREing does not fix a bad shaft, it only rotates it around in an attempt to make it better, and that is a fallacy.
@@EFGMC I saw a video where they said the shafts at the factory are spined before the decals are put on. Spining and pureing are basically the same thing.
@@romewasnotbuiltinaday Depends on the brand. Not all shaft companies try to find the hard side. You can find numerous examples of iron shafts that have been Pured and the factory finished logos are all over the place. Just having to look at a set of Nippon Modus3 shafts with graphics turned all over the place after Puring would be enough by itself to make most people decline the process.
PUREing is the biggest scam in the game. It has been for over 20 years now. I’ll give you all 2 things to think about. 1- look at every professionals clubs. Every single one has the logo of the shaft underneath where the manufacturer says to put it. Not 1 pures the shafts. 2- If PUREing works why don’t the shaft manufacturers pure the shafts and then paint the logo on underneath after? Why would Fujikura, Project X, and Mitsubishi sell $300 shafts and have them go out and not preform optimally because they weren’t pured. Why would True Temper take the extra time and charge more to weight sort Dynamic Gold shafts for the Tour Series version but not take the time to pure them? I’ll tell you why. Because PUREing is a pile of $hit.
Im a firm believer in feel being an advantage and although he could feel the difference, he clearly thought the best result was coming from the non pured shaft as he got it wrong. Between this, cost at 30 dollars for them to spin the shaft and not demonstrating the difference on trackman says to me the actual result is nominal at best. Sounds like it would be hard to prove that bad shot you just hit wouldn’t have been bad if you had just gotten it pured. Save that 300+ extra and get some lessons.
Wait.. just because you can’t feel if the shaft is pure or not, doesn’t tell us the data on performance. What’s the diff if you can feel it or not? I care about the consistency
No dispersion data? The idea of Pured is primarily to guarantee the shaft set preforms the same throughout as well as optimally for each shaft. I’m not saying it’s worth it but I will say all things being equal, even as small as a consistent 2 yards tighter dispersion is the difference in a 4 ft putt to a 10 ft putt. I think this type of test requires a full vs full set tested by a good golfer and a solid mid handicapper over several rounds of golf myself. Even better would be a robot test I suppose. Yeah, that’s it, you need to buy the Iron Byron for us. 😂
I think maybe this is a testament to how tight manufacturing tolerances and QC are these days...? Also, this isn't a totally "pure" test because the two heads could have slight differences as well.
Tolerances and manufacturing are very good today. These heads were spec'ed out to be identical. Loft, lie, head weight all the same, made sure of that for a valid test.
according to AJ puring is a waste of money and it does not do anything. But the golfer in this video COULD Feel a difference. That tells me AJ is full of it. I have found that purring a shaft can make a BIG improvement with an off the rack club. It can turn a driver that will slice the ball into a driver that hits the ball straight, just my aligning the shaft properly.
I really appreciate AJ's HONESTY. As a Club Fitter, his INTEGRITY is second to none.
Others would glady make the extra $$$ and convince someone to get their golf shafts PUREd.
Amazing what people come up with to get golfers to spend a bit more money to tweak their game
Similarly it's amazing what golfers will spend with the hope of it making them a little bit better
Such bs. Drop this guy in '97 and Tiger would whoop him without using "pured" anything.
It's a game of money but the only people winning are the ones out competing every week. This snake oil is for the average Joe's willing to blow the cash.
@@johnthemachine if he wasn't at Perkins....
No kidding. It was like 9.25 per club on the golf works.
Good to see Maltby getting some love on these colabs. Hands down THE most underrated and under showcased DTC out there.
Pass
So this is why I was getting watch recommendations the past week for the Mobile Clubmaker channel. Been enjoying some of his content.
SST Pure installation places the stiffest portion of the shaft (PPOP) in the target line (9:00-3:00) not the 12-6 position as AJ mentioned. Also as noted below in the comments, other tests show there is an appreciable difference in distance and dispersion between a pured shaft and what I believe was a random shaft plane. If AJ installed the the pured shaft incorrectly 12/6 vs 9/3 maybe that's why there is not a clear winner?
I think where the benefit of puring is useful is consistency throughout the clubs. Personally, I've only had shafts pured for educational purposes and to confirm that Flo'ing a shaft is adequate for my or my customers needs. SST Shaft Puring is an expensive option at $20/shaft which I feel would be better spent on lessons from a local pro.
Overall a good video and it sparked a good discussion. Also, AJ has the cleanest and neatest shop I've seen!
Damn Randy that's a really good point...
you blew my mind with this.
Yes mobile Club maker guy did say that the puring side was supposed to be at 12 position. but you're saying it's 9:00 to 3:00 as in right down the target line where the face is pointing..
Let me tell you why that makes this really interesting... because the mobile Club maker guy answered a question above where someone said "the only way to properly do this test would to be have one pured properly in correct position and the other basically be the worst orientation possible opposite of the pured side..."
His answer was yes one was pured properly at 12:00 and the other non pured was put in roughly the 4:00 position....
Wow, so with the information you're saying that basically means he had them backwards. what he was calling the non- pured was actually the pured One..?
What about the Trackman stats? Does that tell a different story?
Puring may well work with non-adjustable clubs. So it is more likely to work with irons.
It cannot possibly work with the generation of drivers, fairways and hybrids that are available now.
Because of the facility to adjust the loft and lie, (albeit marginally), by way of the hosel orientation, any trueing or puring in the fitted shaft would surely be negated and lost.
There are manufactures who's loft sleeve doesn't rotate the shaft. Honma, and Callaway are a couple.
@@TLRChad How do they work then?
My main experience is with Titleist.
When the very first adjustable driver head came out, I was interested in how it worked. A legacy of my engineering background!
I got hold of a a Titleist adaptor as used on the 910 range. I set it up between centres and checked the concentricity when the adaptor was turned using a dial test indicator.
The change in angle of the head in relation to the shaft is as a result of the change in concentricity between the two ends of the adaptor. It is minimal. In my opinion and a few others, the angle achieved in either loft, lie, or angle of face for draw or fade is negligible and can be achieved using the hands and stance. It all boiled down to a marketing gimmick.
That said, Titleist have continued to use the same principle in successive generations. I'm not sold on it.
I'd be interested in how other manufacturers claim to achieve these angular changes however.
Honma "pures" all their shafts of which they call spine alignment. All of their drivers and fairway woods (the adjustable ones) have a non-rotating hosel that does NOT spin the shaft when making adjustments, which in turn, keeps the spine alignment always in place. All manufacturers should adopt this proprietary hosel.
Also at a fitting, you should get your lofts and lies dialed in and should not have to move them again
You find the loft, lie and shot shape, pull the shaft and orient it in the head with your settings. That's how I do it. I always use an OEM hosel. The longer the shaft, the more it oscillates when installed off plane.
As usual I go the other way, I have worked on clubs for over 35 years, not a pro club builder but I know what I'm doing. I have spined and the did the flow in iron shafts put them together and next day go to the range and hit and document the feel, distance, dispersion. Then take them home, pull the shafts and reshaft in opposite poles and the next day go to the range and hit and write down how they feel, the flight, the distance, the dispersion. It's the shafts that have the spine marked and then the flow found, and shafted the way I want them, that feel, fly and congregate together in better dispersion. My opinion, but that's what is important to me and everyone else. Good video, your findings are your findings but not mine, we can all go our own way and do are own thing, hmmm maybe a song should be written about going are own way, nah.
I build clubs, also. I find the best bend in the shaft while I’m I’m gluing the head. It’s a “feel thing” for me. Works great. No extra cost. Golf is a feel game. Too much tech will spoil the walk.
Agree, feel is very subjective. What you ‘like’ and what I ‘like’ could be two totally different things.
So the feel is subjective. But did the pured shaft have any better results on the trackman?
That's what I thought this video would show.. maybe in part 2
Yes, I was looking forward to trackman numbers for this. What a letdown
Guarantee you there was no difference to do with puring and solely any differences were based on Better or Worse swings
But that's a good question I like your thinking and I would like to see so I could confirm my answer as well
Part of the benefit is having a constant shaft alignment through the bag…if he can tell a difference between these 2 shafts, that’s enough proof to say that PUREing is worth it. Now, to the point that he prefers the non-pured…what I would do is get like 8 pured 6 irons, each aligned at a different spot around the “clock” hit em all, pick the one you like best, and get pured shafts installed at that configuration.
Damn that's a good idea Dave I didn't look at it that way.
I guess even though he chose wrong, just the fact that he indeed felt a noticeable difference is enough to mean something...
So maybe he prefers pured side @ 4:30 instead of the traditional 12 o'clock .
there's nothing to say that putting the pured Side at 12 is the best orientation as all of it is subjective to feel huh?
I like your idea ...
I think further testing is necessary...
Great video....As for Puring, if you are going to put $ 1500 into a set of irons...after fitting, then by all means spend the extra $ 35 a club and get it Pured...Then you surely can not blame the club for an miss hits on oscillation which may accure after many shots on the course of a round....But if your only a 9 handicaper...Well Does It Really Matter....Possible...Fitter at Club Champion think so...Happy New Year....
Hahaha ohhh the club could be the perfect club for me. But once something goes wrong you know darn well I’m blaming the club. Couldn’t possibly be me haha.
You guys are good together and fun to watch, both have great golf channels as well.
I played spine aligned shafts for 20 years... I did like them very much.
Loved this video. This begs the question around custom builds. For example club champion will not only fit you for clubs but then try to sell you custom building which adds about 50% to the cost of the clubs. This is versus having the manufacturer build a club for you to your specs. So the question is do custom built clubs perform better than manufacture build and would it be worth it depending upon your handicap? Please do another video addressing this I would love it and fits right into this theme.
Wait wait is custom built to you?
If building the head you were fit for and the shaft you choose to your desired length loft and lie angle and even having it hard or soft stepped is not considered custom built, what is???
If you see some of the QC issues that get going by AJ.... maybe that's where the value difference is?
I'm curious how puring would effect gapping in the irons, too. If the shafts flex along different planes and each club has a random alignment, it might introduce another variable that effects length and/or dispersion club to club.... maybe?
I’ve been wanting to see this! Thanks!
TXG did the same test a while back.
@@michaelparsons541
I thought that was with a driver? I’ve been waiting for the iron test.
@@brandonjones3096 yes, you are correct, that was with driver…my bad
Curious was the shaft pured hard or soft side. You have a choice when requesting puring. It is listed on the printout that is provided with the poured shaft.
W
I have a new sand wedge that felt awful and didn’t go my normal distance.. I took it apart and turned the shaft 45 degrees then put back together.. it definitely feels better and now goes my normal yardage…
Super interesting. When I got fitted for my driver, they made a big deal about how they would “pure” it. Then I started playing with it, and needed to adjust the sleeve, and rotate the face, which meant it was no longer “pure.” I was worried I would be giving up something. Happy to see I’m gonna be ok. Life will go on. :)
I heard a story where Jack would take like 20 drivers to the range and start hitting them and sorting them. He would eventually pick about 3 drivers out of the bunch that he was willing to use in competition. The theory is he was picking the ones that just happened to have the spines aligned. I'm not sure that feel is the way to judge aligned vs not? I would think that shot dispersion would be the best measure?
Interesting. Probably went mostly on feel imo.
Cricketers do this still regularly.
PUREing makes sense. There is likely an "optimal orientation" for right and left handed players when it comes to installing an imperfect circular shaft. Limiting how much deflection occurs seems like a good objective for club builders. However, any old person stands a 1:360 chance of installing the shaft in the "optimal" orientation whether they've had this process done or not. You are simply paying for it to be "ensured" by getting the analysis done. However, I will admit that some of the "statistics" used by PURE are complete marketing garbage (ex. improved by 143% or some shit). All they do is compare initial orientation (which could be correct right out of the gate, but likely not) to PURE orientation (which is understandably the "most stable orientation").
Matt, I just signed up for AJs channel. Great information on his videos, but then so do you. Love ya brother.
Do it with graphite. I bet it’ll be more noticeable
when the swing speeds are 90+ the graphite only lexes according to head weight. However in a S/W flex it might make more difference.
I had my clubs spine & flowed vs pured and what huge difference. S&F lines up shaft seam towards the target & I differently felt the shaft whip more thru impact but not sure how a pure shaft feels.
The old school way that I was taught and I was a certified fitter, club builder and swing instructor.
I had a machine that would measure the pressure of the circumference of shaft. This would
indicate the highest pressure on the shaft and the lowest pressure. The shaft would be installed
depending on the trajectory the golfer wanted or needed. Then the shaft would be installed facing
the target with high pressure or low pressure. Every shaft was frequency matched dry fitted
all grips and shafts were weighed to include number of wraps needed. Then each club was tested by
the customer. 30 years it worked.
I have heard that manufacturing improvements have made shaft puréing less of an advantage.
I suppose someone who could feel slight changes in shaft orientation would actually benefit with all the shafts aligned the same. I am sure a Nick Faldo or Tiger type has tried pured and non pured sets and have a strong opinion.
well...what did the numbers show? Did the pured shaft go longer, was the dispersion tighter?
I went to get fitted at Club Champion last year. They offered and REALLY tried to sell me on getting my clubs "pured". It was an extra $350. Thankfully I didn't get it done. The clubs still dropped my handicap from a 12.1 to a 6.3 over the course of a season.
Nice. What clubs and what shafts did you get?
@@lildvl10 Ping i210s and Nippon NS Pro 1050GH Stiff shafts
I guess with the whole thing you should be looking at tightness of shots with the pier versus the end.
Great video! Keep up the solid work!
I had the same 50/50 chance in picking the spined shaft from my living room.
From my gathering, puring really can only be noticed in the drivers….with irons you get minimal tighter groupings
It’s absolutely real. It feels so much different
Love the collabs with AJ and how you guys are doing these experiments together. Really great explanation of the whole concept and glad to find out it’s all subjective. Now I don’t have to go realign and “PURE” all of my iron shafts 😂
Seen this test done before on TXG, and my question remains…what are the odds that the non-pured shaft was installed close to the pure line? You actually have to “pure” both shafts and then install them opposite of each other, and maybe that’s what they did here, but they didn’t tell us that.
Both shafts were actually pured. While the first shaft was installed in the 12 o'clock orientation, the second one was installed at 4:30. I can definitively say we weren't even close to the pured position on shaft two.
@@EFGMC awesome! Thanks for the response.
two
I would imagine the variance is so minute it is irrelevant. Modern manufacturing techniques are so consistent and precise that they would be almost identical no matter what way the shaft was put in.
@@EFGMC does 12 oclock mean facing your target? Do you have a video that discusses more about shaft pure-ing and spine alignment?
Not quite understanding the conclusion to this video of whether MSG could feel which club was pured. Are we going to do a dispersion analysis at some point? That is what the spine alignment is really about. That the torque or twisting of the club is either lessened or directed so that there will be less dispersion?
I’ve had many clubs both pured, not pured, and even a few retroactively pured. Only ever saw any difference with what I would call mid grade graphite shaft. For example more mid budget options like Grafalloy. It’s an absolute waste of money on higher end shafts and good quality steel shafts. I remember the first time I got to try the exactly same shafts (Diamana White Board 70x one pured and one not) in the same driver head. My immediate thought was why the hell would I waste my money.
Have to ever taken the head off and checked if the shaft is still pureed? I would think the shaft would change after being hit??
Use would not affect it.
Surely this implies the build tolerance of KBS shafts is very high all around the shaft. This test would be interesting if it was tried on cheaper shafts or ones that are regarded on price to be lower quality. ie in golf even lesser brand name equipment at lower price are still producing quality kit.
If you have ever rolled a steel shaft in an spine alignment tool, (less in a graphite) you would have to think there is something too it. When you roll a steel shaft and feel that “lump” in your fingers there is clearly a spine. I don’t think that that is identical to pureing but there has to be some benefit to orienting that lump.
Problem with any spine finder is it very quickly will find the residual bend that a shaft has and call that the spine. Any shaft with enough bend will overwhelm the spine finder and not give accurate results.
Thanks Matt, for saving me money that I would have spent getting my new irons pured! Although, I would think after spending $1300 on a new set of Apex irons, they WOULDN'T need to be pured! 😎⛳
Hey Matt. Thanks for the pointers.
It's worse than doing nothing - maybe? I wasn't getting enough vertical launch on my driver, so I asked a demo-day guy to change the loft of my driver from 9.5 to 10.5, which it can do. Days later I was at a golf store and the club fitter guy noticed that the shaft was pured and convinced me that the change I made changes the orientation of the shaft, and that my loft change made the shaft non-pure, so he advised against it. Also, if I wanted it that way I would need to re-grip it, because the grip is asymmetric and no longer lined up properly with the face. Mostly because it would make the shaft non-pure I had him put my loft back to 9.5 degrees. I left thinking that a "pured" shaft defeated the ability to change loft on a modern driver. After watching this video I think the concern about the shaft becoming impure is probably not significant. Good to know, thank you!
How about moment of inertia matching - please.
Did you make sure the unpured shaft was oriented away from the Pured axis? I loved this test especially when the hitter went back and forth then the blind pick. But, the one variable that meds to be right is the the Unpured club was truly oriented away from the pure axis.
Hey Chris that's a great question buddy the only way to perform this test properly would be to Pure both shafts.
Then make sure one is pured properly & installed, and the other one is installed opposite of pure...
To Answer your question I read a response above from the mobile Club maker guy in this video who assures both clubs were pured. one was installed correctly and the other was installed at roughly the 4:30 position...
So yes he did the test properly
I was about to say that AJ had a good breakdown on this in one of his videos.
Show us the number from trackman.
only thing i would question is how do we know the non pure shaft wasnt luckily already in the best possible position or close to what puring would have done for it
Because I am building my iron set for myself, I figure out the shaft spine and the whole set feels more consistent. If I would feel any difference in a single club? I do not know, probably not. But before I did build up my own sets I always had one or two clubs out of 7 that felt strange and gave bad results
Same in carbon fibre fishing rods which a have a spine
Feel is subjective. But I have a question. Every time I have been fitted they check the sole pattern on the matt. This tells them if the club is too flat or upright. That said, the puring technique is to make the rate of bend the SAME from one club to the next. That's it . So comparing feel is not the real question. If you took a pair of clubs and compared the divot shape. The pured club and non-pured (assuming non-pured is not by chance set to a pured position.) should vary. Yes?No?? My point is puring is supposed to make the rate of bend through the swing more CONSISTENT, not better in any way. If one club has the spine up and bends less (stiffer) than the next club not spine up (less stiff), the divot strike will be different beause the shaft bend is varying.. In essence since the spine causes the shaft to be stiffer when in a certain position up and more flexible when not, you are taking a chance of setting the bend rate to different rates if not puring. Any thoughts on this aspect?
It tends to make the most difference on softer lighter sharfts,but everyone is different
Would be interesting to see if more discernible with graphite shafts.
Cool vid …fellow San dieagon here I’ve bin looking for a video for my driver I just purchased Titlest Tsi2 basically my brother trying to get me to buy a heavier Weightkit on Amazon with different grams for the weight that screws out the back it’s only 50 bucks but was looking for a video to see if that we can actually add ball speed or not that’s what he is claiming ? Wondering if you could help thanx
Mobile Clubmaker channel is awesome. Some unusual topics and AJ has a great way of making the topics interesting. Has a great way of describing things that are often misunderstood, like one video he did on adjustable drivers. Definitely worth checking out.
Would have been nice to see trackman numbers.
ive heard the spline is aligned at 0 +/- 90 or 180 … always wondered if theres s difference or not??
I just got my Golfworks catalog in the mail let’s go!!! I think I like tinkering more than I like playing…. and Maltby let’s me make a $200 club for $70 let’s go
You had Trackman set up but didn’t show the data. What am I missing?
I worked at GS when Dick Weiss invented the SST Pure process. I worked with him and saw the data from the robot. You are incorrect in the orientation of the alignment. The idea is that the hard side is away from the target and the shaft releases perfectly on plane toward the target. I have personally "Pured" thousands of shafts. All of my shafts are Pured including my putter. Although, when the club maker gets the shaft, it is marked in the 12 o'clock position for installation. That's why you're asked whether it's for a RH or LH golfer when ordered. If it was marked on the trailing side it would be impossible to orient in the club correctly. When I used to sell this to golfers, I would liken it to buying tires. You wouldn't put an $800 set of tires on your car without balancing them. It just makes sense. A must for the better player but also makes sense for the amateur. The amateur golfer hits 2-3 good on plane swings per round. Are you willing to take the chance that your club was oscillating out of plane on your 2-3 good swings you made? Also, spine alignment is better than nothing and is the same concept but is far from the same result.
Prob would help someone that swings it faster. I have all my shafts pured. I see a difference…
Is this the same as spine aligning?
You should do a review on the Maltby TE forged irons. Been looking at buying a set myself. They sounded really good when you were hitting them
I've been building / playing Maltby clubs for years now. Hands down, the TE Forged or the DBM forged are stupid forgiving. They are more of a traditionally lofted club. The dispersion is second to none. You literally can slap that ball all over the face from hozel to toe and the damn thing still goes straight! Just buy them, you will NOT be disappointed!
A perhaps better test would be the 12/6 "pured" against a 3/9 "pured"? Can't get any further out. I wonder what the un-pured one you hit was.
It was 4:30. Had it pured and I installed it that way as to be as un-aligned as possible.
Do you have the data from the two clubs? If not, what was the purpose of Trackman?
Irrespective of the golf shaft, they both looked like good shots to me :-)
so what numbers were better? pured or not
It’s fair to assume that if you get an entire new iron set, puring them all will give you a consistent feel across the board. On that note, I’d be curious to see a handful of pured vs. non-pured irons tested in the same way.
Can we see some statistics on the shots?
would love to see the trackman difference... dispersion is probably better with the pured shaft
Another Great Collab! Awesome Video!
Would have liked to have seen something like…say…dispersion results? Spin or distance differences? What was the point of having the track man there?
I put those in the comments section
Love the collaboration between you both as I watch both your channels. Now we need to see if AJ can play or not? Match between you 2. 🤔
I’m not sure what the purpose of pured shafts. I would think that the consistency of distance gaps between clubs would be the goal. Maybe someone can enlighten us.
Here is the link to see the Trackman Numbers for the two shafts CLICK LINK THEN HIT REFRESH ua-cam.com/channels/uXIBwKQeH9cnLOv7w66cJg.htmlcommunity?lb=UgkxMaip_DQdGSjMBceOCfwraj9ue6FpS73-
Is it me, or does this link not work? Curious to see numbers 🏌️
Wow, there is literally no difference between the pured and non-pured club.
Great point since there are services that charge quite a fee to get your clubs pured.
Colab. This is great
What a great swing STUD
So what you are telling me is, when I buy new clubs from let's say Titleist, they just put the club together without PUREing the shaft?? Please let me know, thanks. Cool video.
Major manufacturers do not SST PURE shafts before assembly. This process is licensed to 3rd party builders and fitters and is sold as an add on. The clubs you buy from Titleist will not be PUREd.
What is really important to understand is that 1 Shafts are very well made at this point and very consistent and 2 even if a shaft was "bad", PUREing does not fix a bad shaft, it only rotates it around in an attempt to make it better, and that is a fallacy.
@@EFGMC I saw a video where they said the shafts at the factory are spined before the decals are put on. Spining and pureing are basically the same thing.
@@romewasnotbuiltinaday Depends on the brand. Not all shaft companies try to find the hard side. You can find numerous examples of iron shafts that have been Pured and the factory finished logos are all over the place.
Just having to look at a set of Nippon Modus3 shafts with graphics turned all over the place after Puring would be enough by itself to make most people decline the process.
Shafts are made, painted and decalled without any consideration of spine and installed according to decals. It is mass production.
@@EFGMC it’s licensed to 3rd parties? So your saying manufacturers aren’t allowed to sell “pured” clubs?
the pured had a diffrent pitch... but only slightly.
Alright AJ! Find you here too!
I learn how to tinker from you.
PUREing is the biggest scam in the game. It has been for over 20 years now.
I’ll give you all 2 things to think about.
1- look at every professionals clubs. Every single one has the logo of the shaft underneath where the manufacturer says to put it. Not 1 pures the shafts.
2- If PUREing works why don’t the shaft manufacturers pure the shafts and then paint the logo on underneath after? Why would Fujikura, Project X, and Mitsubishi sell $300 shafts and have them go out and not preform optimally because they weren’t pured. Why would True Temper take the extra time and charge more to weight sort Dynamic Gold shafts for the Tour Series version but not take the time to pure them?
I’ll tell you why. Because PUREing is a pile of $hit.
Im a firm believer in feel being an advantage and although he could feel the difference, he clearly thought the best result was coming from the non pured shaft as he got it wrong. Between this, cost at 30 dollars for them to spin the shaft and not demonstrating the difference on trackman says to me the actual result is nominal at best.
Sounds like it would be hard to prove that bad shot you just hit wouldn’t have been bad if you had just gotten it pured. Save that 300+ extra and get some lessons.
Is there more of a difference in graphite shaft puring than steel?
Yes, the stiffer a shaft the less difference it makes.
I'm not convinced, ,but as anything these days it's all about the $$$ I'm sure this process is an added cost when purchasing custom clubs
I mean my 6 iron travels farther than my 5 iron sometimes. Has to be teh PUREing. Definitly!
Matt is a swing machine. It's a shame he didn't decide to pursue a career as a professional golfer.
What was the point without showing numbers
Great video
Was there any performance difference?
Wait.. just because you can’t feel if the shaft is pure or not, doesn’t tell us the data on performance. What’s the diff if you can feel it or not? I care about the consistency
Thanks, checked out his channel, great content
Was there a difference in the Trackman data?
Damn dude, didn't expect to see Maltby clubs on the channel lol.
No dispersion data? The idea of Pured is primarily to guarantee the shaft set preforms the same throughout as well as optimally for each shaft. I’m not saying it’s worth it but I will say all things being equal, even as small as a consistent 2 yards tighter dispersion is the difference in a 4 ft putt to a 10 ft putt. I think this type of test requires a full vs full set tested by a good golfer and a solid mid handicapper over several rounds of golf myself. Even better would be a robot test I suppose. Yeah, that’s it, you need to buy the Iron Byron for us. 😂
I think maybe this is a testament to how tight manufacturing tolerances and QC are these days...? Also, this isn't a totally "pure" test because the two heads could have slight differences as well.
Tolerances and manufacturing are very good today. These heads were spec'ed out to be identical. Loft, lie, head weight all the same, made sure of that for a valid test.
iron byron should do the test
My dad use to do that to his clubs, I didnt find any difference , He called it spine a line the shaft
Spine alignment is the first step in a two step process of puring
according to AJ puring is a waste of money and it does not do anything. But the golfer in this video COULD Feel a difference. That tells me AJ is full of it. I have found that purring a shaft can make a BIG improvement with an off the rack club. It can turn a driver that will slice the ball into a driver that hits the ball straight, just my aligning the shaft properly.