Is Admiral Holdo the worst character in Star Wars? (Battle of the Heroes and Villains)
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
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Respond to this comment with your nomination for which character we should do next, or vote with a thumbs up if they're already listed!
Cal Kestis
(please guys, we can't have 2 downer characters 2 weeks in a row, vote for Rose another week lol)
Darth Plageuis the Wise.
Ezra
Ezra
Din Djarin
Imagine Jar Jar Binks being almost twice as popular as your character.
And now... you don't have to imagine it!
Jar jar was made to be ridiculous and childish. Holdo was made to be a hero but acted nothing like that.
What's funnier is people hate Jar Jar because they don't like the role he was made to play, which he did so perfectly.
People hate holdo because she completely failed at the role she was written to play.
people who hate Jar Jar are just stupid. if they can't stand a side character for like 3 minutes in total, that's their problem
also the entire Jar Jar hate is overblown to shit, they hate him because the internet told them to
@@Jeyeyeyey 10000% agree. People jump on the Jar Jar hate train and it is absolutely disgusting.
Fun fact: The 2% who gave an A missread it as Hondo
Easy mistake to make. 😂
Now it makes sense.
Or Hodor
I fall in this. I tapped A cause we'll hondo is an amazing character. Then I saw that it was an overwhelming majority on F so I read the question again and was like damn dislexia!
Voted A for the lulz, more surprised about the 15% in D.
By making her suicide run a “one in a million” chance, JJ essentially retconned her into trying to escape, rather than a heroic sacrifice. Actually kind of hilarious if you think about it.
Haha never thought about that! That’s funny
well, at least it made it make sense why they didnt lightspeed ram the death star
What else could JJ Abrams do? He had a fleet and a single Holdo Maneuver would destroy his end-of-the-war battle... IMO, Hyperspace was already destroyed by JJ in TFA before he destroyed it yet again in ROS... so it doesn't matter to me... beyond the fact that my favourite Star Wars period was the New Republic and Post-New-Republic Era... which the ST was meant to fill... so... my favourite Star Wars time period is in utter ruins because Writers weren't given enough time to make sure their scripts matched the lore...
@@aralornwolf3140 dang bro that’s tough, I hope they do that time period justice one day because it has potential to be great
@@aralornwolf3140 well, like rian says "theres no source material" (technically). since the EU is now non canon. does suck that we have to stick to books and comics for good post RotJ content. your sarcastic comment about what could he do doesnt make any sense, since him retconning hyper space ramming fixed the problem. han's landing on starkiller base was bullsh** though.
Here's something 2 Vietnam veterans told me: "Commanders like Holdo were killed by accidentally discharged weapons or accidental "friendly fire" and no more questions were asked"
There was a book written by a US soldier about leadership... in an interview he said "I learned more about leadership from a mutiny than I did in the previous 3 years of service."
His unit just got a brand new Lt. from Annapolis... he was brand new and had to give orders to people nearly twice his age so he e wasn't confidant. He became a tyrant to assert his authority over the sergeants and corporals under his command. Eventually, the entire unit went to the captain with an ultimatum... 'we refuse to serve under this officer'... so the seniors were punished (demotions) and the Lt. was replaced by a Lt. who was in the military for over 5 years and knew how not to antagonize his senior noncoms, let alone the privates.
Holdo was exactly like that officer... except he didn't do it in a middle of a life and death situation. Which is why the mutiny in TLJ was understandable.
*Sigh* The biggest issue with TLJ was the writer had no clue how to write military sci-fi, so every military leader was incompetent... as any sort of competence would have resulted in the movie ending within 15 minutes with the complete destruction of the Rebel Alliance.
Damn. That's brutal.
@@aralornwolf3140 Could you find the book or say the title? I'd like to read it.
@@GAdmThrawn ,
Unfortunately, I've tried looking for it... but I completely forgot the title and the author... I even completely forgot the title of the news article which contained the interview. It was published sometime in the last 3 or 4 years... so that's a long time for the history tab to maintain links... so it doesn't provide the easy to find links and google was doing its best to be unhelpful too. :'(
oof
Yes, as a veteran, this movie really offended me. TLJ is such a disgrace to military leadership, and goes against everything they teach you about leadership in the Bluejacket manual. Sure, I left the military over its poor execution of those ideals, but this movie doesn't even understand the ideals in the first place and celebrates an abominable distortion of them. A leader in the situation described in TLJ would lead to a real mutiny, guaranteed. It was clearly written by people who have never gotten within a dozen miles of a recruiting office.
There's a youtube video that discusses her, and cuts to a clip of Gen. Colin Powell being asked what is the most important quality of a military commander. Without hesitation, he answers, "Trust", and explains how, if he can't gain and hold the trust of his troops that he is acting in their best interest, then they WILL act on their own, and the entire chain of command will fall apart. TLJ may be most valuable as a lesson in how NOT to command...
@@HandofOmega Spot on. If you happen to know which video that is or how to find it, let me know!
Honestly, I feel like TLJ was written by people who hate the US military and everyone in it.
That’s why they created their own “better” military. One run by emotional leaders who demand complete obedience of everyone underneath them, even if it causes their pointless deaths. As well as the Resistance which is the same except all the emotional people are all women instead.
Makes you wonder what kind of world these people want the real world to look like. Perhaps a world where the wealthy and powerful can throw hissy-fits and all the drones underneath them act out their wishes, even to their own detriment?
@@foxeye245 Padme: But that's exactly what we HAVE!
More seriously, I don't know if they hate the US military, specifically, but I did get the idea they hate WAR in particular. From the slapping for losing lives on a battlefield, to the fact that battles are teased without actually *happening* (like the Luke vs Kylo duel, there really IS no "Battle of Crait" if you look at it), there is a clear message of "War is a stupid way to resolve problems" at work here. Which, ok, I agree with, sure...but there has to be a line between fantasy and reality, I can dislike War in RL, but still enjoy the spectacle in my movies, just as one can be celibate or monogamous, but still enjoy porn! Imagine if your porn came with strong Abstinence messages LOL!
@@HandofOmega Prequels are anti-war and they still have battles, so it's kinda stupid thing
For a better comparison of leadership, in Empire Strike Back, right before the Battle of Hoth, Leia is briefing all personnel on the strategy. She takes the time to clearly explain the plan to those present and when one pilot raises some concerns ("Two fighters against a Star Destroyer?") she acknowledges the question and clarifies that the Ion Cannon will keep the sector clear of threats while they escape. Imagine if instead she just told the pilot shut up and do his job.
I was thinking of that comparison too.
Even the appearance, costume and body language is a contrast; Leia's a head shorter and the only woman there (and a young, pretty one at that), but her eye contact and commanding tone of voice are direct and clear without being overcompensating, she appears confident but not overconfident, and her purely functional clothes and hair broadcast that, even though she has a higher rank and is addressed as "princess", she is very much one of them.
Compare this to Holdo; despite being unusually tall and a more believable age to be in command she has absolutely no presence, her facial expression and tone of voice somehow manage to communicate both arrogance and "I'm totally out of my depth" at the same time, and both her coiffure (extra noticeable due to its ridiculous colour) and the floor-length gown that we see she needs to pick up to manage stairs (seriously, what kind of idiot designs a military uniform that will trip its wearer?) broadcast that she is not a soldier, she is a queen, and expects to be treated as such by the peasants.
Short Answer: Yes
Long Answer: Yes
The Last Jedi would have us believe she is a hero, but we all know she falls into the "Villians" category!
I wouldn't go as far as calling her a villain, she's just dangerously stupid.
She isn't a villain, just a really, really, really bad hero.
@@petery6432 calling her a hero would be an insult she just nothing.
@@jaieregilmore971 She's a hero in the sense that she is a good guy. And she does destroy a huge part of the First Order's fleet, so she doesn't do nothing
@@emberfist8347 i think dangerously incompetent would be better. She isn't a villain. She did sacrifice herself for the good of everyone but she was such an idiot the entire time.
the absolute worst of the worst. Horrendous character arc, personality and design. she was simply god awful
I don't think her design was awful she dress in similar way to that politician women in the expanse but that were the similarities ends but it doesn't make that much sense why would she dress like that in a military place but then again liea, and other politician who we see in rouge one are in the same way
she had a character arc?
@@USSAnimeNCC- True but at the same time, this was a military vessel. even Leia was wearing something akin to a military uniform. what Holdo had on was just a dress plain and simple. like... lady, really? that's what you chose to work with?
@@tobluetoblack she should have been a politician.
@@jaieregilmore971 she shouldn't have been a character unless she turned out to be evil.
They literally threw an established character out the window(offscreen none the less), threw another fan favorite character into a coma after playing mary poppins in space, just to shoehorn in this new character who one one knows or has any emotional attachment to, just to have her make the big heroic sacrifice. From a narrative standpoint, that’s TERRIBLE writing.
Also done to chew out Poe, a developing character who was seen as likeable after TFA. I know he's not nearly as established or popular as Leia or Ackbar, but people still generally liked him. At least before TLJ.
Yeah, that's hitting on my major problem with Holdo. Everything her character did could have been done by Leia. Holdo is completely superfluous. Poe ignoring Leia's orders at the beginning feels like it's setting up an arc of Poe losing trust in his aging superior officer. There's potential there for interesting drama. Instead, Leia gets sidelined for a new character we have no reason to care about.
@@Off-Brand_Devin Spot on.
@@starwarsnewsandmemes8289 I still liked Poe after TLJ because he opposed Holdo which just seemed so correct. Of course him disobeying Leia's orders in the beginning was not so nice (apparently all the other pilots ignored Leia too for some reason which kinda just caused the disaster) but then literally everything Poe did seemed to be the right thing. I was really just confused when they revealed that Holdo was not a spy but rather was right the whole time
The amount of gaslighting that Disney and the media have tried to do to the fans about this movie is insane.
Holdo knew she was the worst character ever and so she did us all a favor and blew herself up!!
She found out she's not a real person, so she tried to run & hide... and even there she failed spectaculare
A favor?? We’re still dealing with the ramifications of her crazed lightspeed crash to this day!
Yeah, that was probably one of her only redeeming qualities.
Thank god she did
To bad the rest of the SJWs couldn't follow her fate
Laura Dern as a actress is quite good. I've seen her in several films. Admiral Holdo, the character Dern portrayed in The Last Jedi seemed more like a villain.
"We can discuss sexism in survival situations later"
-Dr. Satler (played by Laura Dern) in Jurassic Park.
Holdo is quite an interesting character in “Leia: princess of Alderaan” novel, which is released before the Last Jedi. But after seeing the movie, it Felt that Holdo’s character was stuffed in the meat grinder.
In short:
If have not read the novel, she is a shitty character.
If had read the novel, she was framed into a shitty character.
She really did.
I'm just going to say. Poe made the right decision when he destroyed the Dreadnought. If he retreated the Dreadnought would've emerged out of hyper space and it would've destroyed The Resistance. He made sure that there was anyone left to make it to Crait.
Yes, finally! People always miss that detail and jump straight to demonizing him for getting a bunch of crappy bombers destroyed.
I'm not saying they didn't deserve it, I'm just saying that if you're dumb enough to hop into a BOMBER class ship that flies like a concrete bus and blows up at even the slightest mishap you're not the type that deserves to propagate
@Greg Elchert this is bad fanfiction we're talking about, the writers don't care if what they put into their project contradicts what's already been established in the franchise they're continuing
I'm sorry, but all those people who died... *sigh* He shouldn't have sacrificed their lives for _nothing!_ Holdo, she knows how to make sure her people survive... she just needs to sacrifice that last three Rebel Alliance ships and everyone will be alive! Except for those people who died on those ships, but don't hold their selfless sacrifice against her, they were doing their job!
- Rian Johnson
As depicted (very poorly) in the movie, it was a bad move. Carpet bombing? Really? When a single starfighter was able to take out all the dorsal defenses? Using slow, unmaneuverable, oversized ships with no way to defend themselves?
So many issues with just the setup for that scene. Even if they justified it as a callback to Lucas using WW2 footage as reference for fighter dogfights (as carpet bombing was a WW2 tactic), it was horribly conceived and executed worse.
It should have been another Battle of Hoth moment, where the pilots knowingly went into a suicidal battle to buy as much time for the rest of the group to escape as possible; something Leia would be intimately familiar with. But then "subvert expectations" came along ...
Poe made the tough call. Yes, the casualties were terrible. But it's a war. People die and sacrifices need to be made.
In short: YES.
Considering how her and Rey is supposed to be a representation of how KK sees herself...
In long: YEEEEESSSSSSSS
Long answer: Hell Kriffing Yes.
Sure it's not Rose?
One word. Rose.
Nothing against the actress, I kinda feel bad how people will think of “Holdo” when they see her in future movies...
I agree, I know Laura Dern from Jurassic Park and she’s great in that film, it’s not her fault that the writing for her character sucked :/
I saw her in a few movies after TLJ and I was like "oh it's the purple hair lady" but I didn't judge the movie or her performance because of her character's writing.
Honestly the fact that people bully actors/actresses just because a character is bad is horrible. Here are some examples:
Hayden, Jake, Ahmed, Kelly Marie-Tran etc etc etc
IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT
She is buddy buddy with Kathleen Kennedy and helped her pull off her goal of ruining Star Wars.
@@ahsokatano5866 her name is Kelly Marie-Tran (I think that’s how you spell it) :)
@@abbyyates9533 thank you
Her character could've been somewhat saved with one throw away line: " We believe there may be a spy onboard the ship and I cannot share the details of my plan at this time" . Unfortunately even with that line, her emasculating tone and that lore breaking hyperspace maneuver would still keep her close to the bottom of the barrel.
@@emberfist8347 I'm not in the habit of defending that pile of trash movie. But Poe is written as impulsive and you don't know who he might tell. Same for anyone else she didn't tell. It's unclear how many people part of her bridge crew she told the plan to, if any. I don't think it's ever specified.
I mean... the guy that blew up their entire Superweapon and killed millions has a pretty low chance of being a spy. You generally don't destroy your entire army to put a spy in a weak resistance (well, I mean, TLJ kinda retconned that but still)...
There's a simple save for a lot of the film. Poe and Finn switch places. Poe goes to Canto Bight to find a Republic general for reinforcements; Finn, being wounded, stays with the fleet. Have Holdo not trust Finn because he was a stormtrooper a couple of days ago; suddenly her refusal to share information with him makes sense. Even better, have Finn _actually_ be the reason the FO were able to track the fleet. Say that he had an implanted tracking device he didn't even know existed. Suddenly hyperspace tracking makes sense, Holdo's actions make sense, and we still get the theme of "Failure is the best teacher" for Finn.
She should of said “there is a first order imposter on board” 😳😳😳😳 “we need to do our tasks and report dead bodies” (among us reference)
@@Werrf1 And it would actually make sense she doesn't like or trust him. You could even make it that she genuinely hate stormtroopers and sees them, even Finn as little more than mindless drones which Finn hates her for.
I'd actually have huge respect for Rian Johnson if Holdo turned out to be an Imperial Spy
That would genuanly be a genius move, but would later be underlines by her logic. If you purposely tried instilling fear and distrust to the team wouldn't they turn on you and take matters into their own hands?
Now that idea would have been great, of course the execution need to be different but Holdo being Imperial Spy doesn't sound bad.
A doughnut hole with its own hole.
I'll always remember the words of the legendary Carth Onasi.
"A leader doesn't berate her troops just because things aren't going as planned. Don't let your ego get in the way of the real issues...A good leader will at least listen to the advice of those who have seen more combat than she ever will."
This response was given to Bastila who was a total Holdo/Karen at first but learn to put her pride as a famous jedi aside for the sake of the mission. Holdo was too stuck up to stop showing off her authority for 5 minutes. She refused to build any kind of trust or hope solely on the basis of her rank.
Also when Poe sacrificed some fighters to take down a dreadnought was correct since there will be casualties in war, just like Canderous Ordo who sacrificed some of his men to win against an Althiri force which outnumbered him 10 to 1.
See jar jar was annoying and dumb, but the writers knew that. Holdo is annoying and dumb and the writers thought she was amazing and wonderful and the best.
Right. The movie tries to make you love her but there's nothing there to like.
As a grown-up I can still unironically laugh at Jar Jar scenes cuz Qui-Gon is there to show us his annoyed looks, it also kinda added growth to Qui-Gon's character, he knows Jar Jar is annoying but through the will of the Force he knows he has to recruit him
@@darthtroller I unironically laugh at jar jar because it reminds me of him becoming a force ghost in robot chicken star wars and annoying the absolute shit out of vader
What makes you think that? I think they meant for her to be like what she is.
Jar jar never talked down and belittled another character with smug arrogance.
Speaking as someone with 24 years of experience (and counting) in the US Army, having been an Enlisted soldier, NCO and now Warrant Officer, Having served in peace time and war time, having seen how things really work when high speed metal is coming at you and your joes, I can say without hesitation that Admiral Holdo is an example of everything we are specifically told NOT to do in every Army leadership course ever.
First, it is a rule of war that anyone in the battlespace (formally known as battlefield), from the lowest ranking soldier to the highest, can die without warning. Since that is true, all leaders are required to do two things when making and issuing plans. First, layout the plan specifics to EVERY SUBORDINATE LEADER. This ensures that not only do those subordinate leaders know what their part of the plan is, they also know what the other parts are, in the event one of their fellow subordinate leaders gets taken out, they can at least try to take over and carry on. It is also a backup to what happens if the leader is taken out. Again, as we saw with Admiral Ackbar being killed, anyone can die in the battlespace. What would have happened if another attack had managed to kill Holdo? Then no one would have any idea of what her plan was, however terrible it turned out to be.
Second, the leader will also share their INTENT with their subordinate leaders. The intent is just that; the leader's intentions as a generalization. This allows for tactical flexibility in the face of unexpected developments. Subordinate leaders, if they know the intent, can make changes to the actual specifics of the plan, even substantial ones, in order to still work towards achieving the leader's intent, rather than still trying to make work a suddenly unworkable plan.
If applied to the situation of the Resistance during the events of TLJ, what Holdo should have done, if she had been anything resembling a good leader, would have been to gather all her subordinate leaders, like Poe (since even after his grade demotion, he was still in command of one of her remaining starfighter squadrons) and explained the specifics of her plan (we will run until we run out of fuel, in a straight line, at STL speeds for the only habitable planet in range, then jump off ship with cloaked shuttles and pray to The Force it works). She would also have given the intent, which can be summarized as "We are trying to escape and evade".
Second, despite everyone else managing to wear a uniform, Admiral Holdo is the only one wearing what appears to be a gown suitable for an evening at the opera. She did this the entire time, not taking even a five minute break to change into something combat or even space worthy, should there once again be a sudden loss of hull integrity.
Third, Admiral Holdo's entire plan hinged upon on the First Order NOT doing what appeared to be a simple and easy precaution; doing a "decloaking scan". At no time during the movie does any of the First Order people comment about such scans being anything other than a simple press of a button. No mention of it being expensive or time intensive. They simply do it and its done. If your entire strategy is dependent upon the enemy NOT doing something so basic, so easy for them, I suggest you find another plan. Her plan, if we switch our spaceships for say ocean ships, was the equivalent of hoping the pursuing enemy ships didn't use their sonar/radar and relied strictly on their Mark I eyeballs for tracking.
Fourth, in every leadership course I have ever been to or heard of, a leader should praise in public and admonish in private. Holdo did exactly the opposite with Poe. She demeaned him publicly as well as demoted him. When he was unconscious and she and Leia stood over his stretchered body, she spoke well of him.
Fifth, some have said that they believe it was Admiral Holdo's intention all along to pilot the ship in a hyperspeed suicide run. If so, that is another example of just how bad a leader she is. Its another one of those basics of military leadership we are taught; a leader has a duty to protect the chain of command. Why? Its not to protect the leader's exalted butt per se. Rather its to protect the years (presumably) of training and experience they possess for continued and future use by the military. At that point in the movie, Admiral Holdo was the sole remaining admiral of the Resistance. She had a DUTY to protect her experience and practical knowledge of how to conduct space warfare both tactically and strategically, for the good of the Resistance. She was supposed to be a brilliant, seasoned commander. Someone with the first hand knowledge of how to fight and win space battles. Preserving that ability for the Resistance to use at a future date, after they rebuilt their forces, should have been a top priority for her. Instead she threw her life away on something that could have been done by a droid or autopilot. Of course if she had bothered to share the details of her plan in the first place with her staff, specifically the Operations and Intelligence staffs, they might have been able to turn her plan into something that wasn't a drawn out way to get everyone killed.
To summarize, Admiral can't be bothered to wear a uniform Holdo, is an example of everything a military leader should never, ever be.
Excellent observation Chief. I was just thinking about how much Band of Brothers is used to teach good leadership in NCO schools. Maybe we'll start seeing Holdo be used to show how not to lead.
@@Indylimburg Thank you :)
The way Holdo speaks to Poe reminds me of how Krell spoke to Rex.
Holdo's interaction with Poe was, to me, an obvious allegory for KK and "the man". Here's to life imitating art (metaphorically, not literally, folks).
“You know what’s an admiral like? Well, just do the opposite - from clothes to intelligence.” And we got Holdo.
She has the low ground and she 100% deserves that position.
More like the high ground. You won your fights from the low ground, even tricking Anakin into giving you low ground. Low Ground Supremacy.
Thank you, my good sir
To quote Count Dooku, I've been looking forward to this.
Reminder that Ryan and company literally viewed Akbar as "that one meme character" and had the actor get in full costume just to do a take at the end of filming where he says "It's a Wrrap!" while trying not to break down crying at what they did to his character and how Akbar died almost offscreen.
Should have posted this on April Fools day and showed the poll saying 100% for A! 😂😂😂
Ha!
Short answer yes. The worst character ever conceived because she only exist to humiliate Poe for no other reason then this is what Rian and Disney think is empowering to women.
They can't just make a good female character, so they bring down the men around her to make her look better by contrast
I love how incredibly stupid this take it. You're angry she 'humiliated' Poe, yet you give her zero credit for killing herself to save everyone, lmaooo sooo blind and stupid...
@@jdraven0890. Whats sad is, by definition, a mary sue(or marty stu) is a character who, to be “successful” requires the universe to change to accommodate them. So in making everyone else stupid, they made holdo a sue,
She really messed up not telling people she had a plan
Its the superior durty to inform the subordinate. So he or she can carry out the plane if the superior is killed or incapacitated.
They could have explained that part all away with one line saying that they suspected FO spies were on board. But they didn't do that, because RJ is a moron.
She really messed up by not making sure her plan was feasible... there were at least 7 points of failure in her plan...
Two Examples:
What if the power plant for the rebel base is non-functional and that can't use the hypercom to call for aid?
What if those shuttles didn't have enough food and water and everyone dies before their transport arrives?
Two huge points of failure, irregardless of what will they do once the Empire decides to check out the 'old rebel base' for potential survivors? Her plan was going to fail... Finn and Rose tipping off the Empire a bit sooner only made it inevitable.
If Dutch was in Holdo's plays the Sequels would have ended much differently...
I wonder which planet is the most similar to Tahiti
@@emberfist8347 ,
Meh... too hard to do... just launch the few thousand ties those 8+ resurgent class ships and Supremacy had... I'm sure a few hundred proton torpedoes would immobilize the Rebel Fleet if they target the _engines._
And, those fighters would be in perfect position to destroy any shuttles and escape pods. Cue Credits @ the 15 minute mark.
Guys Isn’t it obvious she was A typical “strong woman” and Oscar Isaac’s character was the Typical dumb alpha male Noting more nothing less that was the point for her Character it’s that simple
The only strong women in that movie were the unnamed extras... Paige Tico, the Lady on the Bridge who covered for Poe, Poe's second in command... RIP
It´s funny how it´s Holdo who looks like a dumb arrogant bi*ch and Poe like a strong man who had the balls to start a mutiny against her. :D
Holdo is the embodiment of the woke garbage Kathleen Kennedy dumped all over star wars
Thats basically the whole sequel trilogy
As a woman I must say that I detest what has happened in the name of “empowerment “. The harpies May try to fool the foolish-hearted with this stinking, puss-filled cavity of their version of our beloved SW, but us wise ones will curse it into oblivion, with the help of the force. Empowerment is not stepping on and ridiculing men, but realizing that we were made to work together , male and female, to accomplish great things. I salute you men, and I stand by you with love and respect.❤️
I don't think it's ever been so satisfying to see a character at the bottom of the list.
Really happy that Rey and Kylo REN are so low too. Terrible characters. Also, JarJar Banks was fine, just ugly af
When I was in the military, we had a humorous saying: "Treat your troops like mushrooms. Keep them in the dark and feed them shit." Obviously, this was a lesson on what not to do. The good admiral lives it out.
The only two of the fourteen leadership traits I remember are know yourself and seek self improvement, and KEEP YOUR TROOPS WELL INFORMED. Lol, that last one kept repeating in my head when she wouldn't tell Poe what the hell she was up to for absolutely NO reason at all.
It always felt like there was a scene missing from the movie. One were the leadership discussed the fact they probably had a spy on bored and that telling everyone the plan would have compromised it. Then you have most of the higher-ups blasted into space, and could have her character development be about having the fate of the rebellion/galaxy rest solely on her shoulders (being the ranking officer) making her paranoid against those under her command (due to the spy), fueling the exact same behavior and in the end you could have someone say "even the best of us have their flaws" which you could relate back to both Rey, Kylo, and Luke's actions. Sort of a spin on don't meet your heroes I suppose (cause you'll realize they are human too).
The comments in the video got it right. If Holdo had been intended to be a story villain like Pong Krell or Dolores Umbridge, she could've turned out to be a highly regarded character. As an audience, we enjoy having that character that we can communally love to hate.
But when your character is the stand-out virtue signal in a storyline overflowing with pandering signaling, you have a problem.
When Krell gets shot in the back, you cheer hysterically, and that's what the show wants you to do. When Holdo dies, you cheer hysterically, but the movie wants you to be sad.
In the words of the great Sheev Palpatine: *I love democracy*
Lol it seems her only purpose in the movie was to be a “Boss girl” and put a man in his place
Facts
And the best part was that she was wrong the entire time
Yeah she seemed to be COMPLETELY unaware (or didn't give a shit) at how her actions were affecting others. There was literally ZERO reason for to keep Poe in the dark, and then seemed to despise him for having a 100% understandable reaction how he was interpreting her motives based on what info he had. She could've saved herself and everyone else a lot of stress had she just taken 2 minutes to tell him what the hell was going on.
@@dougsmith6262 lol apparently asking the admiral what’s our plan to escape the space nazis that blow up whole planets for fun was just too much for her
Why are men always so offended by leading women? There's plenty of actual boss girls, and MOST men need to be put in their places. You people in this comments section are the perfect example of why toxic masculinity needs to be eradicated. There's never any legitimate critique of her, it's insert a reason I hate this character to cover my real reasons, she's a woman with purple hair that reminds UA-cam women haters of third wave feminists.
"Is Admiral Holdo the worst character in Star Wars?"
Well I would pay money to see Jar Jar kick the living shit out of her, thats for sure.
"Usa the dumbest person in the universe! And Missa elected a SITH LORD! Let that sink in, ya purple neck bum bum"
Don't make me laugh; it hurts.
@@emberfist8347 ,
He did support his desire to increase the Chancellor's powers... which allowed him to ask the people to make him Emperor... and he agreed with that... On the other hand... I'm sure the Emperor was waving his hands about while speaking.
I laughed so hard at this.
Right up until the credits started rolling, I was stilling waiting for Holdo to be revealed as a member of the First Order.
She would have worked so much better as a traitor/spy.
At the very least, she could've politely assured Poe and The Resistance that she had a plan and would discuss the details with the necessary personnel and followed through on that. The Resistance must've been anxious wondering what was going to happen, so this would be a relief. They would've been much more likely to trust her. If she saw Poe as a loose cannon, then talking to him in a patronizing manner, insulting him, and refusing to indicate she has a plan makes the situation worse. If she was suspicious of him she could've had someone keep an eye on him or put him in the brig so he didn't start trouble. As I've heard others say, discussing her plan with even a small group of people could help provide feedback for her on whether her plan would work. They could share ideas and point out problems she might not have considered. A good leader is open to constructive criticism and respects their subordinates.
Characters like Holdo is what you get when production companies are the greater entity in a film project than the collaborative efforts of *all* the artists in the production itself. I can promise you that Johnson's relationship with Kennedy is why none of the actors put their foot down when they read the script and probably thought "Wow, this is garbage and needs to change." They're bullies and know that their cast is replaceable.
Me: There will never be a worse character than Jar-Jar Binks.
Rian Johnson: Holdo my beer...
@@emberfist8347 jar-jar was that bad, krell and fox were much better written characters than jar jar and especially holdo
@@emberfist8347 the purpose of krell is for you to hate him
I would take Jarjar over pretty much any sequel trilogy character anyday
JarJar Binks is still worse. JarJar derails the whole entirety of The Phantom Menace. Holdo provides tension to some scenes and doesn't affect the movie that much.
@@master106 nope Jarjar is better
For the 2% that gave her an A: why? Genuinely though, I want to know
It turns out that spending an entire movie making your character seem almost deliberately traitorous isn’t undone by five minutes calling her completely right with no additional analysis of her behavior. All you end up with is a character that just doesn’t make any sense.
Right next to Rey. It's art.
“It’s like poetry” - George Lucas
@@craigsteinkamp12 "it rhymes"
Rey there is clearly underrated tbh, my opinion
@@splashnskillz37 If we're talking about Rey's introduction in TFA, definitely an A. It all goes downhill once she meets Finn...
@@doug4431 Nah im talking overall, people been exagerating cuz what she represents outside of the movies and how DLF rode that off
Her plan was a “one in a million shot”. What a great movie 🙄
Ackbar was seriously given a less gracious death than some storm troopers 😂😂😂
My favorite moment from the Last Jedi was when she crashed Snoke’s ship. Not because it was a cool moment, I was just really happy to know she wouldn’t return in the sequel.
0:55 you also have to consider that many of those who put in “A” or “B” probably mistyped and didn’t realize it
Me before watching the video: this has got to be a juicy one...
I am the senate
Why didn't she told the darn plan?
Answer: Plot
She didn't even need to tell them what the plan was. I can understand her wanting to keep it under wraps if she suspects there could be a turncoat aboard. But refusing to even tell Poe that there _was_ a plan? Spouting some guff about "Hope is like the sun".
To paraphrase a STNG character Plinkett used in his TLJ video concerning Holdo "That kind of leadership borders on cowardice."
I just remember the sheer frustration with this character when I watched the film...
That horrifying moment when JarJar is considered the superior character
Because he is Jarjar > any sequel character
I've never seen anybody in Star Wars so unlikable as Holdo. She was easily the most not need it character, with a awkward character design. Laura Dern is a good actress, but I just can't picture her in a Star Wars movie other than Jurassic Park.
Anybody in fiction*
Well, the Story Group does want to bring Dinosaurs in the High Republic.
The velociraptors have learned to pilot star fighters!
@@vestarakhai5303 Still better characters than Holdo.
I'm hoping that Laura Dern got paid well as a result of playing an unlikable character.
I know I'm late,
but let's imagine a reality where holdo is a mole
she intentionally allows for finn and rose to go and seek their hacker while still having the same attitude towards poe
and then, after turning the ship for it to face the first order, over the communication we hear a loud laugh, with her mocking the resistance for even believing hyperspace trackers existed
then she starts to fly the ship toward the first order, without them shooting
however, there was still one rebel on board, either a no-name or someone like ackbar
a fight occurs, in which the bridge commands (and holdo/the rebel gets blasted, triggering a hyperspace jump when real close to the supremacy and ka-boom, unvolontary hyperspace ram, everyone on board shocked that it happened, with some of the characters breaking into tears (even in the first order, the bridge or at least what's left of it is astonished as they don't understand what happened)
which leaves a kylo ren and a huxx bursting their rage on everything happening, explaining the bad strategy choices for the hoth-like battle, where they are just blinded by emotions
and ofc at the end of the same battle, leia repeats "I gave her my full trust..." meaning she still hasn't let it go, then she asked poe to pardon her for her behaviour since she was misguided
would've been cool !
The person who said she was plot contrivance nailed it 100%. None of the characters need to do their stupid, out of character story arcs, if not for Holdo.
One movie trope that was popular during that time in which movies where released were "main character may do something good but lets question them anyways." (Civil War, Batman Vs. Superman, and now this with Holdo and Poe.)
It occurs to me that 'realistically' Holdo's ship should have broken apart across the hull of that Massive ship like a glass on a rock.
Not if traveling at near light speed, at those speeds even a pebble would have destroyed a planet.
I like The Wanderer's comment the most: Holdo ticks EVERY warning sign that this was a "because plot" character. So it's no surprise that she wound up (no pun intended) dead last in your opinion poll, only just how _far_ of a country parsec she is below anyone else on the list.
Even when playing devils advocate every thing in favor of holdo is a stretch at best.
15:48 hey that's me!! Thank you so much!
The 2% of people who gave her an A had to be trolling...
Or they mistook Holdo for Hondo, much like mistaking Rey for Rex. Amazing what one letter can do.
@@jamesbellefeuille2926 just a slight auto-correct mistake or a misread
Laura Dern got done dirty with this character.
Do a video about how the the sequels had even less aliens than the original trilogy even though technology would have made it easier to have lots of aliens
One thing that baffles me is that the side line Leia so they can have a "Strong female leader" in charge. Why? Leia is right there and a far better character.
Unlike Finn and Rey Holdo doesn’t really have a big potential and the execution wasn’t good either. She’s just there and isn’t interesting
She’s just being mishandled.
Please read the “Leia: Princess of Alderaan “ novel. Her character is quite interesting in the book, but literally trashed in the movie.
It would be same as someone who has never read the Harry Potter books, and the only thing they know about Snape was what he was portrayed in the 3rd movie. Cuz somehow it’s the ONLY HP movie that the person was able/allowed to watch.
Not saying that Holdo was supposed to be a great character, but definitely would not be what she is in the movie.
@@operationstratos1013 but the novel was a tie-in into the movie, maybe it's Holdo based on early script or just writer ignoring who Holdo is in the movie, she was created for the movie, not the novel
@@goodmind4940 like you said, Holdo was created for the movie... through the novel.
The novel was released before the movie, as part of the marketing/promotional campaign for the TLJ movie.
The novel provides the blueprint/background for Holdo's character. Hence why it's so frustrating for the movie to trash the character this way.
Disagree. A quirky commander who doesn't trust the main characters? There's a lot of potential in her. Potential that was wasted.
Holdo was ridiculously bad. You said it yourself: her plan was to sneak the ENTIRE crew down to the planet and let the First Order destroy the ships.
She didn't want to tell anyone her plan because she suspected there was a mole.
So by her own logic, what happens once they get to the planet if the mole ends up telling the First Order where they went?
Huh wow i had completely forgotten Poe was the one to blow up starkiller base until right now (Keep in mind i only watched episode 7 once) you'd think such an important event would be mentioned in the following two movies
It might’ve been you Thor but some youtuber made the comment that what they say to explain why the Holdo maneuver wouldn’t work was because it’s one in a million than she’s the biggest traitor/coward in history because she would’ve had to believe she wouldn’t hit them.
I almost gave her a D, but then I thought, if she isn’t my least favourite character in Star Wars; who is?
In short, I gave holdo an F 😂
Holdo really was a terrible leader, if she had let people know she had a plan of some kind then the crew wouldn't have revolted as quickly, but she would have needed to let at least some people in on it so that they could assure the rest that everything was hopefully going to work out in the end
Holdo had no reason to withhold info about her plan from Poe. She just wanted to be a jerk.
That's probably because he said "we need to take action!" when HER reaction would have been to run away with her tail tucked between her legs when the Supah Stah Destroyah caught them with their pants down
It's like the sole reason for her character was so a strong wahmen could tell toxic masculinity to go fuck itself.
Poe should have been imprisoned for life for mutiny...wtf are you talking about?
Admiral Haldol reminds me of when politicians were appointed military commands because there was not a significant standing army, and they had enough popularity to sign up men to fight and obey orders. Once in command, their hidden faults came to the surface where they could not delegate their responsibility in times of crisis.
Actress awesome will always love her but my goodness they really couldn't make a more unlikable character.
I am a huge scifi fan in general and love when there is a self consistency within a universe. I remember sitting down in the theater watching The Last Jedi and within the first few minutes being confused after reading the title crawl. That confusion lasted the rest of the movie because there was no self consistency with previous star wars content or even within the movie itself. As I saw the character of Holdo in the movie, I kept trying to make sense of her actions and the only thing I could think of was that she was either off her meds and insane or more likely she was a spy for the first order. When neither of those were correct, to me it was just another inconsistency with the story. Her character made no sense. Then finally I got to the hyperspace ramming scene. I remember sitting there in the mostly empty theater and thinking "Wow, this is a beautiful constructed scene, really stunning....too bad they just broke the universe." The Last Jedi's script would of been another average scifi movie that would of been enjoyable as a stand alone if it were not suppose to be a Star Wars movie.
This really brings back memories! I remember looking around the theater with the same sense of confusion, wondering if everyone else felt the same way. When Leia space-flew to a swelling JW theme, it *felt* like we were all meant to clap, but there was just...silence. I stumbled home, wondering WTF I had just seen...
My SW collection still has a Last Jedi shaped hole on my BR shelf, for that is the ONE SW movie I will never buy.
@@HandofOmega I have tried watching The Last Jedi twice since i saw it in the theater. You might ask why and it would be a great question. I was hoping maybe I just missed something and it was not as badly constructed of a movie as I thought. Maybe there was nuance in the characters that would become more apparent with a second watch. Both times I just could not finish them. There was no masterful constructions, writing or directing. It was a poorly written fan fic from a person's whose knowledge of star wars seems to come from the covers of comic books or books. And we all know the covers never reflect what is in the pages. I am proud to say I don't own it in my collection either and never will. Unless they come up with deleted scenes and a cut of the movie that cuts out the stupid nonsense. I mean how many minutes were wasted on the casino planet scenes and you could cut them out entirely and not effect anything in the story.
@@Valecan Man, I feel you. i spent that whole first week after seeing, wrestling with the idea that I had actually seen a SW movie THAT bad! How did this happen?? As someone who never bought into the Prequel hate, I had to ask myself, is this how *those* guys feel? The main reason I saw it again was because my brother was in town and wanted to see it, so, like you, I went in with a razor-sharp focus, trying to see if I'd missed something. Nope!
(although one of my best friends, while admitting he was disturbed by the first viewing, now says that on his second, he liked it much better; he now claims that, just as people are shifting on the PT, they will in time come to like this movie, so he wants to be there first, so he can say "told you so!" I don't think so, and it's one of the few things we argue about...thanks, Rian!)
The weird thing is, once I gave myself "permission" to acknowledge this film really was just that bad, I felt a lot better, tho a lot angrier. And the 67% dropoff the second week shows that we weren't alone! A shame Solo had to pay the price for Rian's lack of vision, but Lucasfilm wouldn't have listened otherwise...
@@HandofOmega It is a shame because Solo really is not that bad of a movie because it was a fun ride. I went and saw this one in the theater. But after seeing how Disney started to treat the fan base for having the audacity to criticize a movie I didn't bother to see Rise of Skywalker in theaters, by that time I had been soured to the franchise too much. Besides like I said before I am a scifi fan in general and there is more than just star wars, so I moved on. Now I hoping that Disney or JJ does not touch/reboot any older franchises just to taint them more.
@@HandofOmega I don't think Lucasfilm listens at all now, they still will push shit on us, they just ended anthology movies because of Solo
Short answer: yes
Long answer: oh hell yes
On a positive note, I’m still really enjoying this series. It’s such a fun way to get the whole community really involved in the content. Thank you for your great stuff and cordial discussions Thor.
Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you friends. :)
Do the Wampa next. One of the greatest Star Wars characters with a compelling story
She reminds me of a hunger games character. This subplot was the biggest problem I had with the movie
I wonder if Johnson changed Holdo's character from the Leia book at the last minute. The two personalities are just too different (hippie vs arrogant leader) but the hair and outfit do fit character from the book more than the movie.
Hilariously, I actually sort of liked her in the book. They feel like entirely different characters.
@@jessicaa4901 I didn't even realize they were the same character until I read the Holdo page on Wookipedi. The Holdo in the book wasn't bad; the book itself bored me, but I do not get where the disconnect happened between Claudia Gray and Ryan Johnson because those projects should have been in the works at the same time.
ninjagirl226 I didn’t read the book until after the movie, and when I was reading it I was like “wait...I don’t hate her....how?!” And yeah, it kind of seems like there wasn’t much communication between the authors and the directors, despite the books being marketed as “Journey to [given sequel movie]” The Aftermath Trilogy, Bloodline, etc. had almost no real connections to the movies.
@@jessicaa4901 I read the book before I saw the movie and it just didn't click. I'm bad with remembering names so that's probably why. Just shows how bad the story group is I guess. Sad.
So, when I was in the theater watching the Last Jedi--there was an alarm that went off in my brain when she appeared on screen.
As in--up until that time, part of me was waiting for the movie to change, for something to happen that would make it worthwhile. She showed up and my subconscious knew what the rest of the movie would be if my mind and heart were denying it.
She has no character arc, no likeable personality, and annoying to watch. Ruins every scene she is in and that one scene where Leia and her say “may the force be with you” at the same time is cringe worthy. Just the worst character by far!!!!!!
All they had to do to explain away her bad behavior and failure to tell anyone that she had a plan was to say that they had an imperial spy on board and were trying to find them before informing the crew of the plan. They could even do a quick shot of someone being taken away to the brig in the background and they all turn to acknowledge it. Then have old purple hair apologize for keeping poe in the dark and that she only did it to prevent the empire from discovering the plan.
Honestly when watching the film I thought she was the traitor. I thought she was the one giving the Resistance ships position away after the hyperspace jumps and letting the First Order follow them.
As I said in my comment on the vote, I feel that the premise of the character was wasted. She could have made either an ecellent traitor and a secondary villain going into Ep. 9 or she could have been shown to be a competent leader and therefore we'd have a mystery build up around why she isn't telling Poe anything until she breaks and tells him that she believes there to be a mole in the Resistance which then sets Poe off to find said mole with Finn and Rose.
Holdo had a lot of potential to be a really interesting character but the story that was presented to us showed us someone who was a dolt who'd must have gained a command position due to privilege of birth or some other way. She reminds me of some of the characters from Sharpe who bang on and on about how a "noble gentleman" should act.
Johnson said how he didn't want to be like Ep. 7 and have a repeat of what came before but he gave us a shittier version of Ep. 5 and I just don't know why, he's a competent film maker and he likes Star Wars, I'm honestly baffled by how he got it all so wrong.
Honestly I'm just disappointed by it all.
Compared with Admiral Holdo, Captain Sobel from „Band of Brothers“ was an inspiring leader and a friendly guy. Most annoying in Episode 8 was that they set up Poe as the bad guy - the rash, disloyal, short-sighted fighter pilot in opposition to Holdo until the „big reveal“ that she had an escape plan after all she just didn‘t share before with her inner circle. Which failed horribly and confirmed Poe‘s doubts as very valid in the end.
To add to the comment at 7:21 about blaming the character not the actress, let's not forget that Laura Dern has played a brilliant strong female character when she absolutely crushed it as Dr. Ellie Sattler in Jurassic Park.
100% the writing imo, not Laura Dern.
The plan should have been secretly transport off the entire crew then send the autopilot to do multiple hyperspace jumps to draw them away.
Then maybe have the autopilot get damaged and so she has to be on the ship to hyperspace jump it then she accidentally destroys it.
At least Laura Dern redeemed herself with winning an Oscar for Marriage Story
Maybe the First Order thought “What the heck is she doing? Is she crazy?” Hat could explain their reactions.
When i saw the movie i though holdo would be a respected and effective ofgicer that would crumble outside her normal environment and therefore lash out, showing herself to be incompetent in a stress situation like this and then redeming herself for all her wrongs. Wasn't the case
My main problem with Holdo is the theming. The main theme of Star Wars is fighting for freedom against massive odds, rooting for the little guy. The purpose of Holdo is to tell the main characters to shut up and stop trying to win even when there's no mercy in failure. Meanwhile, her master plan is a one in a million shot never seen before in canon. Last Jedi would be an OK movie outside Star Wars, but within it, it runs contrary to every Star Wars message there is.
Rey has finally been dethroned from the "Worst star wars character" title. I don't think any challenger can defeat her. The only one left that could even come close is Rose Tico, but not even she can out suck Holdo.
The difference is that Rey and Rose are just lazily written, and not living up to the actresses full potential. Holdo is just utterly unnecessary and absurdly inconsistent.
I think that 2% thought the survey was asking their opinion about Odo from Star Trek.
I always forget that Rian killed Admiral Ackbar off. Just Awful.
You know what I thought when Holdo died in The Last Jedi? One word...
GOOD!
It occurs to me that, if someone asked Rian Johnson to rate the characters covered so far without looking at our list, the rankings might come out almost completely reversed.
You know, this REALLY would've been a simple thing to fix. All she had to do was say that she couldn't discuss the plan, because she believed that there were First Order spies on board and THAT'S how she thought they were tracking the Resistance through Hyperspace. I mean, that wouldn't solve all the problems with her character. She still looks more like a character from The Fifth Element than from Star Wars, and Ackbar or Leia probably should have filled this role, but I feel like portraying her as someone who's just holding their cards close to their chest would've bumped her up to at least a 2.10 in the ranking (still not GREAT, but what do you expect from a throwaway side character who exists to serve one purpose and then explodes?)
The worst character in anything I’ve seen
A change I would make to make sense on Holdo not telling Poe or other soldiers her plan: it'd be highly suspected that there's a First Order mole in the Resistance ranks, cause how else could the First Order fleet find them so quickly after jumping into hyperspace (they would later find out that the First Order had been working on a hyperspace tracking system, so they need to develop new stealth tech to cover their tracks), so Holdo would have to be very careful on who she shares sensitive info to, anyone in the Resistance could be a First Order double agent. The only one person that Holdo completely trusts would be Leia, and with her unconscious and recovering from her injuries, who else does Holdo have to turn to after that. She would also suspect Poe is the mole cause why is he so hellbent on finding out her plan on what to do next, or Finn since he left to try and find the code breaker (but Holdo doesn't know that). She'd later admit that she doesn't know who to trust, so Poe and Leia (after her recovery) would tell her that you got to have faith in your fellow soldiers; they're not fighting for you, they're fighting to save the galaxy from the First Order and the people they care about. Could've been an interesting take on who can you trust in highly stressful situations. Yeah maybe these are not the best changes, but this is the best I could think of at the moment.