One Last Talk About Comp Cams And Flat Tappet Cam Failures
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- Flat tappet camshafts are ok to use! While there are some subpar parts out there, a lot of the cam failures are caused by lack of common sense or laziness. Let me explain it to you.
Listen to what this fellow said. I built many engines and the info he shares is right-on. I'd make sure that when you get a cam......get the whole kit....springs, cam, etc. With that you will have a matched set. I've built 3 Ford 460's recently and followed closely the guidelines he sets down here. I wish that I'd found this video before I built the engines; At the time, I had to chase around to find the info.
I've actually started filming a 460 build that I'm doing currently. Thank You for your kind words!
I bought an off the shelf 260 Comp Cam which I sent back. It had a .006" base circle run out.
I then bought a stock Enginetech 256 cam that had the same casting number on it as the Comp Cam.
The Enginetech cam had zero base circle run out.
That doesn't surprise me at all. Comp has no quality control anymore it seems.
Made in China
I have a solid flat tappet in a early bronco for 20 years with modern oil and it’s still good I also just put a solid flat tappet in a ford 460 in 2021 broke in with modern oil still good it’s the parts not the oil
Yeah, most of the people that post online about their cam that went flat were the ones that just "sHoVed thAt CaM iN It" and had oil galleys full of sludge containing a lifetime of engine wear debris that'll stop a new lifter from rotating in its bore if any of it breaks free. The three camshafts I've broken in, I used the dark grey moly grease. It worked great, but man it takes a while for that stuff to liquify and get out of the engine. I think I'll try that redline stuff if there's a next time. I spent a lot of time measuring pushrod lengths on the two FE's I built, even more on the 390 since it's nonadjustable hydraulic. I wound up with two pushrod lengths to get the preload within its specified range for all 16 lifters. No problems with it. I think another mistake people make are they only measure the pushrod length for 1 or 2 lifters, need to check them all to be certain. That's why I wound up with 9 of 1 length and 7 of the other length on the 390. If I had to do THAT over again, I'd have bought adjustable rockers. My only sort of regret with that engine but it worked out just fine.
You could get by with only measuring one or two IF you have the blocked decked to the centerline of the crank and the heads are level but that would be the only way. I’m with you. On my 390 I had to measure every for every pushrod because I did not have the block decked. People don’t realize blocks aren’t square from end to end or side to side unfortunately
@@BlackLabGarage I had my block zero decked and the heads I bought were nicely resurfaced and very flat, but the valve job wasn't totally perfect for stem height across the head. Most were all dead on but a few valve stems varied a few thousandths tall or short from the rest here and there. This issue becomes a lot more important to check for with the nonadjustable rail rockers than individual rockers or adjustables.
When I put this 460 together, even though I had it zero decked and it has individual rockers...I'm still going to check each valve for proper pushrod length. Luckily they can be shimmed if needed.@@MattsRageFitGarage
Yep all sound advice, more ways to get extra air through the motor than valve lift too which is always worth looking at 👍
Absolutely. It's amazing how much difference there is in power even using the stock cam but porting the heads.
@@BlackLabGarage interesting all this, people seem to love valve lift, more is better, I look for ways to keep it reasonable whenever possible, you can increase performance without building yourself a hand grenade with the pin hanging out, some stroker kits too, wrist pin undercuts the rings… etc etc 👍
Even going to thinner rings makes more horsepower with no downsides, but a lot of people don't believe that either.@@donaldhill2775
I hope their retro fit hydraulic roller cams are better then their flat tappets. I have a shiny new extreme energy hyd. roller for my 460. It ix an XR270HR-10 (part #34-422-9). It cost over $500 and apparently I get no warranty cuz I did not purchase a set of their lifters. I wanted a set of Howards roller lifters so thats what I got. My punishment is no warranty !!! Comps customer service sucks. I have called three times and got two different answers for what is the correct valve springs. I have got three answers for what type of distributor gear to use. I settled for Comp 911 springs and an MSD melonized steel distributor gear. Guess I will see what happens.
I don't have much faith in their stuff anymore. On another one of my videos someone commented that their Comp hydraulic roller cam broke in half due to it being a bad core. Their lifters aren't much. Did you see the episode of Roadkill where they installed a new Comp hydraulic roller and their lifters and one of the lifters came apart?
I will look for that video. I really wanted a Howards roller cam but all the retro fit 460 cams had too much lift. I was looking for a roller with around a .515 lift like the 1971 429 SCJ. The closest I could find is the Comp. #34-422-9 with .521/.521 lift. I can only hope it works out.@@BlackLabGarage
I understand. That's the one thing I hold against Comp on roller camshafts. For what they charge for them it should be a billet steel camshaft and not a cast core camshaft.@@maxs.5905
Try Elgin dont buy this Chinese crap
Im going to be doing a cam swap in a 77 460. Thankfully i saw this first. Saved me a headache. And porting ,per your video.
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Make sure you get a straight up timing set or an adjustable timing set. The cheapest double roller timing set you can buy is to get the timing set for a fuel injected 460. They came from the factory with a double roller chain and straight up timing.
I just dont understand why people still buy comp??
Just because of the name and marketing I suppose. I mean they were great years ago but have been on a downhill slide ever since the buyout
I look at it like this. When was the last time an American V8 came from the factory with a flat tappet cam? Like it or not the oil industry caters to the big three, oil formulations have changed, and it's fine for roller cams. To argue the benefit of a flat tappet cam is like saying we should all go back to racing Ford flatheads.
I'm not saying that flat tappet is better than a roller camshaft. But there are lots of people saying you can not run a flat tappet camshaft these days because everyone knows someone that wiped their camshaft out during break in. What I'm noticing is in a lot of these cases it wiped out due to improper installation whether it be using stock valve springs that are coil binding, lifter preload being too much,etc...
@@BlackLabGarage I'd almost agree, but when well known engine builders with a good national reputation refuse to do them for anything but class racing that demands it due to rules, and if they do it they require special lifters with edm oiling, a good billet core etc.. it ends up costing more. Than a roller setup. So what's the point? Try to save 3-400 bucks and end up wasting an engine when it wipes out the cam.. and it's guaranteed to be down on power compared to a comparable spec roller cam.. why, what does it serve? It's throwing good money at bad.
You're talking racing though. That's a whole different ball game than a street engine. Down on power? A solid flat tappet will always make more power than a hydraulic roller simply because they can turn higher rpms without floating the valves. There is less weight with a solid flat tappet lifter than there is with a hydraulic roller lifter.@@b.c4066
Excellent video! I really appreciate you taking the time to put together this video. You gave great advice and like you said if you follow all the steps you’ll have no problems. Thank you😎😎
Thank you! I know there will be people that argue with me about it but I stand by what I said. A lot of the failures are caused by people not wanting to do a proper cam installation. I always say if you don’t have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over? Lol
Good lord and Ford Yes sir!!
Absolutely!
So when me & my buddy rebuilt this 390 .. pretty sure he or we didn't check lifter preload * & just inserted stock 9.59 pushrods in it... so question being...engine has less than 1k miles on the build.... did I wipe out my cam? What type of wear will I notice on the lobes. .. I can see them currently since I have intake off....so just wondering what to look for... it did run pretty smooth before I had to do this current project...due to that rusty valve cover that caused a mess...but at least now IM GONNA DO IT RIGHT!! JUst hope than cam is still good ... as always thanks B.L.G.✊✊
You should see a nice circular pattern on the bottom of the lifter if its been rotating correctly
@@BlackLabGarage 10/4 right on buddy...appreciate you!! Will check it out & I called or found a cool machine shop .. like the only guy that said wait before you pull your head send me some photos of that single bronze valve guide hanging down . So I emailed him ....see what he says .... sounds cool like he's not just in it for the money so we shall see... he does do performance stuff ..so we shall see.. 👀👀
Great info thanks for sharing keep the videos coming
You're welcome! Thank You for the kind words!
Dont buy Chinese Made crap get an Elgin cam and lifters Made in UsA
I'm using Howards cams which are made in USA. Most lifters are all coming from the same places. I use NOS lifters
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I dont doubt there's cam/lifter failures. But Id bet 80% of them are builder error.
I don't know what the percentage would be but I have no doubt that builder error is the cause of a lot of them.
Buy Elgin Pro Stock cams they work fine with their Elgin Lifters!