Comp Cams vs Howards vs Summit Racing Lifters. Are They The Same?
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- Опубліковано 30 лис 2024
- Follow along as I measure and disassemble a Comp Cams hydraulic lifter and compare it to a Howards, Summit Racing,TRW, and Crane lifter for a Ford. Are they the same lifter? Are they in spec and good to use?
To bad if you get hate... Let the haters hate....you did the right thing Howards would be my choice having the correct crown is as important as how the lobes on the cam are machined.... I've always placed the nose of the lifter on the side of another lifter to check for wear of the crown on used lifters works with new as well, since the bodys are suspposed to be straight... But who knows today 😊.... Thanks for the video I stole the lifters from a NOS purple cam kit now I have to get new ones so howards or hughes will have to be my choice...the comps are way to scary.
Crown and r heat treating sucks on New chinacrap
@@Haffschlappewell yeah... But it's our fault for letting it happen...don't buy the crap!... China can make anything it's the companies share holders insane lust for profits that has screwed us...and it's not just automotive parts it's everything! .... Just bought a 2011 impala for a beater car...was doing work to it under dash.. All the stickers on everything says made in China!... Glad I only paid $1500 for it and even then I feel I over paid!
Just keep watching eBay. I scored that NOS set of Crane lifters for $27. So the deals pop up on there from time to time
@@BlackLabGaragecool 😎
Quality control is different from each manufacturer. The basic body may be made in the same location, but machining is done at specific locations.
Get the diameter of the internal clearances. Amd the heat treat is also different. Some are flame kissed and others treated by electrical current.
I bought Summit flat lifters for my FE & they are, or appear to me anyway, identical to the lifters that came with my mellings camshaft for a FE.
They are probably sourced from the same place in Mexico more than likely
They are all 832 lifters... It could be materials or the hardening process, or just more people unaware of how to properly break in a cam....But here is the golden ticket for success, if success is going to happen.
1. Clay smith cams puts an xtra couple thou taper on their flat tappet cams. They arent having failures..
2. Use johnson lifters. I also like crower x series with flat spot on the side to lube the lobe.
3. Make sure to hone the lifter bore so it will spin freely.
3.1/2. If you can use low ratio rockers or take out the inner spring if duals,that would help..
4. Use a break in straight 30 oil. Joe gibbs, amsoil, royal purple etc. Not reg oil with an additive..
5. Run the engine for 10 minutes at a time during break in. Vary the rpm, dont set the idle screw at 2200 and walk away.. Let it cool a bit , check everything and repeat. 2,000-2500.
6. Change oil, put break in oil back in...
7. dont let it idle excessively until it can be put on the dyno, or in the vehicle...
Any questions, let me know. Good luck!
I personally haven’t had any problems using flat tappet camshafts. As far as Johnson lifters you have the argument over Hylift Johnson and Johnson over who is the original. From my research Hylift Johnson is the original and still makes their own lifters. I always use SAE 30 for break in. I think valve springs also contribute to the cam failures. The Xtreme Energy camshafts from Comp have lived that are too aggressive and require very still valve springs to keep the lifter on the lobe of the camshaft because of the aggressive ramps. Very stiff springs combined with lifters that may be slightly out of spec equals wiped out camshaft. I only use enough valve spring that will take me to the rpms I’m going to run the engine. I use camshafts with slower ramps, and just enough valve spring to do the job and that’s it. Knock on wood I have not had any problems. I also agree with honing the lifter bores
Also beware comp cams has bought other camshaft names and grinds them. Like lunati and a few others
Well if it’s an off the shelf camshaft Comp doesn’t grind them themselves. They are ground by Camshaft Machine Company or one of the others and simply reboxed. Comp does grind custom camshaft themselves, but the standard off the shelf Xtreme Energy, Magnum, or one of the other series camshafts they sell that you buy from Summit or Jegs they do not grind themselves. Comp, Lunati, Edelbrock, and some others are all owned by IOP. Industrial Opportunity Partners. Comp doesn’t even own themselves anymore
Just replaced the Comp cam in my 440 Charger with less than 1000 miles on it. One lifter was ticking and when we took the valley cover off one lobe was starting to show a little wear. The engine was broke in properly with zinc oil and supplement. We went with ISKY. Thanks for confirming that Comp is a poor choice.
@@don66hotrod94 was it a Comp Xtreme energy camshaft?
@@BlackLabGarage Yes it was
@@don66hotrod94 that’s why the lifter was ticking and wearing fast. It’s because of the ramps of those camshafts
@@BlackLabGarage Thanks for the info.
@@don66hotrod94 you’re welcome
The Summit lifters look identical to the lifters that came in my ATK/VEGE 351W long block. The grind looks the same as well. They survived being run on a sim tester and the cam I took out looks good but I'm going to use my NOS F1DZ-6500-A lifters. You suppose there would be an issue reusing those new lifters on a different cam after being run on a sim tester? they look like they were never on a cam lobe at all and they all passed the crown test. I've seen some NOS Ford FE lifters on Ebay with the same type of grind pattern, must be a different grinding method used or something compared to the grind pattern on the Howards or Comp.
Well I’m supposed to say no on reusing lifters even if they have had very little run time or in your case simulator time. But have I done it? I sure have. I didn’t have any problems reusing mine and they had maybe 20-30 miles of driving on them. But of course it isn’t recommended but I’d say a lot of us have done that at one point or another
@@BlackLabGarage Yeah I think they'd be ok there is barely even a witness mark in the phosphate finish on the cam. I don't think the sim testers run very long or very fast.
@@MattsRageFitGarage I've heard about the simulation testers but I don't know much about them. Nobody around here has one
What about the hardness though? and surface finish(porous vs polished)?
Everything I have seen, the hardness of the lifters is fine. I have used lifters that had the swirl grind marks on the bottom and some that looked polished and had no problems with either one.
What are your thoughts on elgin lifters? Thanks for taking time to respond
From what I have seen on the boxes, they are made in Mexico so it’s a gamble
Thank you for the imput
@@dougdier3104 you’re welcome!
Good episode. I have been fooling with engines since I was 10 and flatheads were the norm. I'm over 3/4 of a century now and I still don't trust Comp ... From the get go, they wanted to be the "sales leader" so mass MFG. Have used Howard's many time w/o a failure (so far ...). Have also used Doug Herbert and a few others from time to time. Our last BBC build for a jet boat w wet exhaust was a Howards cam and Rhoads lifters because the cam was ~280* and I needed the lifters to retard at idle so we didn't get reversion. In discussion with Rhoads they absolutely confirmed that their parts are made by Johnson Controls in the US. I trust them and so far all is well.
So my choices are Howard's Direct Lube, or Crower Cam Saver (same idea), or Rhoads. Not going anywhere else for flat tappet stuff. But bottom line is always inspect your lifters to make sure they have crown and a decent grind pattern. And check your cam for taper. If it's not tapered enough (~0.003") you'll loose it all. And the right oil, and cut open that filter at the first change (~100 miles) 😅
In Germany we use Sae30 Lawnmower4 stroke oil for old OHVs plus 4% Mos2 additive
When I build my Pontiac engine, more than likely I will use Rhoads lifters in it
Make sure you don't buy the cheap Crower cam savers, I bought a set of those and the grind was so bad it looked like it was done freehand with an angle grinder. I sent them back.
@@MattsRageFitGarage cheap Crower cam savers? Does Crower have two different lines?
@@BlackLabGarage Yep I found that out after I bought them. A cheap set and another version made by Hylift Johnson.
Will they only ruin the cam if the bottom is cut wrong? Is it the only factor that can really cause lifter failure in the actual construction of the lifter?
Heat Treating too Soft and crown wrong
Well no…several other things can cause lifter failure. If the lifter bores are worn too much it will make the lifter cock sideways under load and bind up. Every lobe on the camshaft is ground at an angle to make the lifter spin. If the cam has no angle or the wrong angle the lifter will eat the camshaft in no time. Does it ruin just the cam if the lifters are ground wrong on the bottom? No…when the lifter goes out all the pieces of the lifter and camshaft go thru the oiling system and usually destroys the crank and bearings in the process.
At this point in time, I wouldn't buy comp mudflaps for my wheelbarrow.
That's one of the best comments I have seen about Comp but its totally true🤣
🎉❤Jason B, Wichita, Ks here again. Lol ♻️ hay brother on wiring ,could u do must n how toos on Fords ?? But 1st on Usually passenger fenders,AKA,The right side of vehicle. Thats is if you're looking forward in drivers side or the steering wheel 🎡. Iam 52 ,lol born in Waterloo, Iowa. I'm Dislexic. On the Starter Sillanoid / some are 2 or 3 center smaller bolts 🔩, what are the Most??? I've seem butchery lol 😆 way too many wires attached to these over the years, I know the 1st main side both is Positive, n 2nd is the Positive Wire to the Starter. So in some , Applications, the smaller middle ones can be either a 2 post.Or three post, so on my 1979 Wife's Alisha Bronco, it was a 3 wire, it was used as a old Ks Snow removal Plow truck.so it's 3 post ,the Hydraulics were removed, But Left a wiring mess, I think the 1st bolt closest to fire wall is,"were talking middle " is to 12 volt ⚡️ Starter? " On a 2 bolt Starter Sillanoid system" The 2nd or closest the grill goes to ?? Some The alternator period and another goes to the coil Is ignition coil " That's on a points Style system, not into a newer factory Ford Derrow spark box" ?? I've seen that 2nd wire going to a to both wire Alternator and off Alternator then going to the HEI distributor. It gets Confusing to me , I think sometimes Chevy's wiring is easiers .on trucks n old blazer wiring. Ever one has its place, I watch Vise Grip Garage n Polo Barn Garage, n Junk Yard Digs, Mortsky Repair, n lol Puddins Fab Shop, on their get it running n driving Utube channels, YOU N JUNK YARD DIGS, LOL Kevin's from.Iowa lol like me, U too Ford Brothers I watch because Not Alot on info on Old Ford F150 / F250 4x4 stuff out there , U guys I watche all the time Info or stuff my old Fat Ass ,forgot to know, Thanks again 😀 for u channel n info n the getting back with a watcher n lover of your channel, Jason B, Wichita, Ks ❤❤❤❤🎉😅😅😊😊
I’ve never seen a solenoid with 3 posts in the middle. I’ve only ever dealt with the 1 and 2 smaller posts in the middle of the solenoid. The smaller posts are usually labeled. The S post connects to the wire from the key switch. It’s the post that gets 12 volts from the key switch to activate the solenoid and causes the vehicle to crank. The I terminal hooks to the + side of the coil and sends a full 12 volts to the coil when cranking. When you let off the key the coil is then powered by the wire coming from the key switch that has the ballast resistor in it so the coil only gets 6-9 volts. They crank on 12 volts but run on 6-9 volts.
@BlackLabGarage thank u again on my remember n issues Jason B
@@JasonBackes you’re welcome. Feel free to holler at me anytime
No dont use this crap buy NOS lifters
I have a bunch of NOS lifters but if I was to buy new ones they probably would be from Howard’s