Economy & Society of Rohan and Dale: ua-cam.com/video/W_nc60HfmhU/v-deo.html Economy & Society of Arnor and Gondor: ua-cam.com/video/DC2f_4Y_Bq8/v-deo.html Economy & Society of the Elves: ua-cam.com/video/JNSosH0UpaI/v-deo.html Economy & Society of the Dwarves: ua-cam.com/video/f3h-u5mkVtY/v-deo.html Economy & Society of the Hobbits: ua-cam.com/video/uYpqolDCIUU/v-deo.html Our other series: Middle-Earth - ua-cam.com/video/cVHygcEZbjY/v-deo.html Witcher - ua-cam.com/video/VISScJAyl5s/v-deo.html Game of Thrones - ua-cam.com/play/PL2Qq-rUSt7b3JN6nfgBaXCO-Fq2AI3m16.html Warhammer Fantasy - ua-cam.com/video/bn1Oj9QEf3U/v-deo.html Star Wars - ua-cam.com/play/PL2Qq-rUSt7b3RzrRLfjpViIqP5rE959xT.html Elder Scrolls - ua-cam.com/play/PL2Qq-rUSt7b0GMTIPuM1fMHowJEFbbC9D.html
This video was a nice one. And it was fine for passing the time. But please seriously consider doing more Star Wars or Star trek video's. Anything Sci-Fi would be nice. But then again I could accept a video on Dragon Age.
“Sauron ruled wisely and well” He gave the Orcs, men of Rhun, Haradrim, trolls, Uruks and giant spiders good jobs. He revitalised mordors economy and industry. He liked fancy jewellery and gave it to his lieutenants the Nazgûl. Maintained strong borders.
Sauron: Okay so you're going to go and raid Rohan to get me some more black horses Orc: yes, my lord Sauron: they have to be black though for the aesthetic, the drama just isn't believable if they're dark brown, so BLACK, okay? Orc: of course, my lord Sauron: good. Now go, and remember; BLACK Orc, hurriedly walking away: yes, my lord! Sauron: MAKE SURE THEY'RE BLACK
Months later: Sauron: How is Gandalf travelling around so fast? Orc: The fastest horse in Middle Earth... Sauron: Don't tell me... Orc: Is white. Sauron:... *moments later, a random orc is seen flying out of Barad Dur's highest balcony.*
Surprisingly, Mordor was home to a bustling Karaoke bar industry. The Orcs would go to these establishments to have a mug of grog and sing the stress of the day away. That’s how they ended up with hits like, “Where There’s a Whip, There’s a Way” and “Goblin Town”.
Thank you so much for making this channel and not abandoning it. I already loved Kings and Generals, but it makes me so happy to see some genuine care and concern put into this.
Volcanoes - and particularly volcanic ash - are usually a massive driver of land fertility. If combined with Water. Only modern fertilizers work better at this. Quite possible that all of Mount Dooms ash went towards Nurn, which also had enough rainfall and a convenient sea - thus making that land more fertile then any other farmland in middle earth. Likely Gorgoroth had a massive farming potential - but either lack of rain or Saurons presence prevented anything from growing there.
The run-off from the mountains around Rhun would also add a lot of minerals so despite maybe not on Tolkiens mind it makes sense that Rhun would be good farmland.
I always wondered in the movies how Mordor was able to field numerically superior armies to Gondor and Rohan without any hints of agriculture or society. Now we know.
Even in the Shadow of War video game the region of Nurn is shown to be a verdant, lush area full of green grass and chirping birds. It’s the breadbasket of Mordor.
I wanna say that Grond, the battering ram, was probably made from mithril. It broke the Mithril gate of Minas Tirith. Magic was the main cause but I bet it was magic infused Mithril that the head was made from.
In the Silmarillion, Morgoth's Hammer is named Grond. I always thought it was kind of a cool throw back to name the battering ram Grond, like it is the actual head of Morgoth's war hammer, and given that he was supposedly at one time the most powerful of the Maiar, its not that much of a stretch that he carried that large of a hammer.
Our Dark Lord ruled with benevolence with firm and fair hand to all Orcs and Men , unlike those Elven propagandas that constantly potray him as some tyrant hellbent on destroying everything.
There’s actually a book written in Russian that uses this as a premise. The Last Ringbearer. Essentially the book states that Tolkien’s account is the history from the perspective of the victors, and the Orcs were just another group of men who were on the cusp of an industrial revolution before they were killed in a massive genocide by men under the thrall of elves and Gandalf.
While an orc baker might seem strange, we have to remember that Tolkien gave us an extremely limited viewpoint from which to see their civilization. Orc females are never seen, for instance. They aren't dug out of the ground like what was shown in the movies, They have to breed like any other species. I would assume that the female orcs remain at their villages/holds and handle the traditional roles most women of other mortal species took care of and therefore while the men are out on raids, they may prepare other types of food. The interesting question here: What's in that bread? It can't be wheat, because full-blooded orcs (not the Uruk-Hai halfbreeds) cannot stand to be in the Sun so even if they wished, they can't farm outdoors. If Orcs farm, then it has to be underground, and therefore mushrooms would likely be a heavy part of their diet. Maybe they made bread out of mushrooms, somehow?
@@theawesomeman9821 : Oh, the good old "there's been worse"-excuse. If we look at body count, level of exploitation and vastness, then there is really no one worse than Good olde Britain. The Spanish might get close in regards of thoroughness in terms of genocide. But their reign across the world was neither as long lasting nor was it this wide spread. If we look at on-going consequences (poverty, hunger, disease, drug proliferation, conflicts stemming from terrible borders...) then Britain takes the crown multiple times over. But I know, people don't like to feel the guilt for the bad deeds of their country, while loving to feel proud of achievements. Well, history can't be cherry picked... (another thing that the Britishers excell at) You have the one you have, regardless of whether you want it or not.
@@Radonatorr : No, far from it... very far from it. Britain did this for centuries, Germany only for a few decades. And while Germany worked on an industrial scale, never seen before, this just can't make up centuries of exploitation on a global scale. And Russia... well, apart from a few decades in eastern europe, their imperial exploits were largely centred around steppe, tundra and arctic wastelands, neither of which was much populated. Yes, Hitler, Stalin, Mao were all extremely terrible indeed... the worst of the worst in their respective times. But the British Empire blows it all out of the water by sheer scale and timeframe. You know, shit adds up, large shit adds up faster. And if you add up for a very long time you get quite the result. But who is really interested in such petty details... right?
@@bikkiikun Not true at all. You are talking about the timeframe, but you are ignoring most of Central and Eastern European history at the same time, focusing only on the 20th century. This is just cherry on top. In regards of Germany we are not talking only about the more decade of industrial scale Nazi exploitation, but also about the 120 years of German Empire's policy of purposeful oppression and erradication of Slavic cultures and languages, such as the Poles or the Czechs, or even Holy Roman Empire's genocidal crusades against the Polabians and Vieletis, which inhabited what is now Eastern Germany. Their oppression continued for many centuries and ended with their successful eradication as an ethnicity and effective Germanization (with mere remnants of the Sorbians still remaining). Regarding Russia again, their tyranny in Central and Eastern Europe is not just mere decades of USSR, but the entire duration of the Russian Empire. Since the 16th century the Empire was conducting imperialist conquests and exploitation, and later was pushing for the policy of Russification. Russification aimed to destroy the culture and language of Ukrainians, Belarussians, Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians and Poles, which millions of intellectuals and political enemies of both the Tsar and the Communist Party sent to the forced (essentially slave) labour camps in Syberia (as the institution was first started by the Empire). Both of them also flooded the conquered territories by German and Russian colonists. And while the Brits did most of the same things, they never purposfuly set a goal at complete erradication of any nation or ethnicity. They wanted subjugation and submition, but not complete domination of their language, culture or religion. And that's exactly what both Germans and Russians wanted. And no, the British are not winning on the timescale either. Before the Brits left their island both Germans and Russians were already engading in imperialism in the East. But who is really interested in such details, right?
I always liked the descriptions of Mordor's defenses ans economy when I read the book. I always thought to myself that this Dark Lord had such a sweet set-up - a rich, easily defensible land, impressive fortresses, reasonably loyal / effective population of servants, productive agricultural / mining / industrial sectors, magical minions, breeding program for various monsters, my God, he had it all. I'm honestly a bit disappointed that he screwed up, he had a really good set up. Evil aesthetics always beat out good guy aesthetics - just look at how popular Batman and anti-heroes are.
I feel he was quite justified in his attempts to invade Gondor/Middle Earth though. Given the fact that he poured his essence in the One Ring, it would be natural for him to want to reclaim it. Add to this the fact that his greatest fear was that one of the Greats (one of the Istari, or the Elven-lords, or Denethor etc) would find the Ring and make use of it, and it just makes sense that sitting back and holing up would not fit into his strategy and goals. In addition, his nature was such that he could never comprehend a creature such as a hobbit willingly giving up power as well.
He made most of Gorgoroths defenses. Like Morgoth Sauron was able to raise mountains. Morgoth made the Misty Moutains, Iron mountains, grey mountains, and Agmar mountains. Sauron did this to a lesser extent and only made the ones around Mordor
@@shastasilverchairsg From a strictly "evil" point of view everything sauron did made sense. As he was a dark lord / inherently evil with a need to dominate every other living being it's not suprprising he acted the way he did. I wouldn't call it justifiable though
Sauron, a benevolent ruler, expert metaphysicist, and jewelry hobbyist died today in a unexpected tower collapse. This disaster may have been triggered by the sudden eruption of a nearby volcano. Memorial services are scheduled for sometime next week, as soon as a next of kin can be identified and notified. He was 50,000 years old.
I'm not a big fan of the genre, but I really dig these vids on the economic structure of Tolkien's world. Excellent video, K&G. And I'll see you for the next one.
Imagine if Sauron actually used his big brain to economically dominate Middle Earth. Use his immense knowledge to increase the living standards of average middle earth citizens.
That, and other forms of subversion, may have been his original plan. The problem is that once the Ring was found, he had to work fast. It also probably didn't help that: a) He could no longer assume a pleasing shape. b) The wise and other rulers knew of him after the events at Dol Guldor. Economically or ideologically subverting Middle Earth would mean having to wait until the Elves and Wizards *somehow* lost their influence to the point that no one would listen, a process that could span anywhere from decades to millennia without his making direct attempts to...curb said influence.
Great Video overall! I liked the graphics of middle earth, you make an amazing job of providing us alternative images of so well-known characters of Tolkien's work. One thing I found hard to follow was the writing, the way you filled the letters as you spoke through your subtitles. They weren't that clear.
Great video. The Orcs of the Grey & Misty Mountains would have been able to acquire grain from wild grasses as the Anduin valley system would have been fertile. Raids on the the remaining Northmen settlements (Woodmen) in the Anduin would have provided grain. Certain underground funguses would also have provided substinence and fish from deep mountain pools. Orcs would also have hunted the animals in the region at night. Saruman fed his army with goods from Dunland and the Shire.
i had hoped for such a viedo and my dream has come true.😁 The glimpse into the world beyond the (much better known) battles is really fascinating. Great Work!
The lands of Nurn would also be very fertile, being fed the ash from Orodruin without the darkness that kept the orcs free from the sun, which would harm and kill them. In this sense, few lands in Middle-earth would have soil so rich and bountiful, being also close to a large freshwater lake.
I love this series. You should also expand this type of breakdown to popular comic book fictional lands such as Asgard, Apokolips, Latveria, Oa, Krypton, Wakanda etc.
Part of the problem of fictional planets and countries from comic books they Valeus and difficult to narrow down. But every tapestry has their common threads
"Morgoth created the orcs" Small correction here - Morgoth did not "create" anything - he corrupted what already existed into twisted forms. The first Orcs were elves captured by Morgoth.
But the orcs didn't exist before him therefore it could be argued that he created them. After all, creating something like a tool - an axe, for example, is just twisting materials into some form
@@Crock0il One would argue that beating a hammer into the shape of an axe would make it...lesser than an axe forged from raw iron. While Morgoth "created" (for lack of a better word) the Orcs by torturing elves and feeding them foul things, they were elves to begin with and deep down, still have elven origins. It's not like Morgoth sang the Orcs into existence like Iluvatar did with everything in creation. EDIT: In short...Evil does not create. It can only corrupt.
@@Darkdaej beating iron into the shape of a hammer would make it lesser than raw iron, but it's still going to be iron (and some wood I guess) deep down going with that logic.
I always thought the Orcs would pillager villages and farms for food but I never knew that they had their own agriculture thought I am not surprised that they would use slaves to do the work.
Is it just me or Mordor sounds like the Sith Empire based on Dromund Kaas in a certain sense? As you can see, both realms lasted for more than a thousand years and were still strong when they faced their enemies.
Yeah there's a *ton* of inspiration taken from LotR throughout Star Wars, George was clearly using WW2 in a similar way, if more directly allegorical than Tolkien
@@haslamabad_ Definitely that too! Pretty much everything about the Empire from the Stormtroopers to the entire trench run is steeped in WW2 iconography. He also gave all the Imperials English accents to evoke the American Revolutionary War where the US were the plucky rebels fighting a literal British Empire. But by the time of RotJ he used the Empire to represent the USA and the Ewoks as the Viet Cong, as he had come to realize (or finally had the courage to say it) that the USA would prove to be on the wrong side of history in that conflict.
I crave a book where people campaign against slavery for strictly pragmatic reasons instead of moral Learning about the pre Civil War differences between northern and southern state economies show that overall slavery is less productive
Slavery was less productive and was on its way out until the cotton gin was invented, which suddenly meant that a single slave could produce way more cotton at a way higher rate. Suddenly the almost free labor became extremely valuable. There are of course other pragmatic reasons to oppose slavery, as shown in Rome when slavery was basically the equivalent of outsourcing and so certain politicians campaigned on bringing back jobs to ordinary citizens. cheaper/slave labor, whilst productive in terms of resources and raw material, ultimately screws over the local population as they cannot compete with free labor, which is one of the reasons the south, despite its wealth and universities, had an impoverished and illiterate population, as all that education only reached the top elite.
Nurn was for sure very dry. Surrounded on three sides by mountains and then by very large strip of land. Perhaps this contributed to the war, once Sauron had gathered a bug army, he had to conquered land to feed it.
They became apart of the reunited kingdom. Everywhere from the sea of Rhun, to Nurn, to the old Numanorean colonies, to Angmar the kingdom controlled all (except dwarf holds and elf areas).
Please PLEASE do an episode on the life and economy of the Dunlendings I have always found the history of the men who refused to go to numenor and subsequently became the middle men who would later be exploited and discriminated against by their own distant kin to be fascinating. Only two choices remain for these people. Be a second class citizen or side with the white wizard who makes all these nice promises of retaking their old homelands (rohan).
The Dunlendings always occupied a bit of an odd spot lorewise. Whilst Tolkien's setting isnt entirely black and white in terms of morality, to have the Dunlendings be brutalized, slaughtered and chased off their land by the progenitors of the rohirrim, and subsequently treated like second class citizens barely above orcs... its a bit grimdark.
Due to the diet of Orcs and other lesser creatures, the draw to battle might have helped fulfil a basic need, if you fight, win and survive you have a pick of the dinner table (ie the battfield) afterward.
I always considered that passage of Tolkien that orcs just scattered after Sauron dies to be way off from the consistent details in the novel, and for this reason i simply couldnt believe it. basically, i think orcs had a distinct free will and ability to discern what was good for them and what wasnt. yes, both Morgoth and Sauron enthralled the orcs (meaning enslaved) and probably there was some group mind control of SOME level, but it was never complete mind control. why would otherwise orcs need to be supervised and whipped by other orcs to go to the battle they obviously dont want to participate in? existence of independent realms, conversation between shagrat and gorbag, all of them indicate free will much like that of elves and humans. i think that adding that passage that orcs simply killed themselves after sauron was defeated was a cop-out; after good won, you needed some way to get rid of the evil ASAP. so this kind of worked.
Well, after sudenly disapear the power that maintained them together, what I think is that they would inmediately do what happens in those circunstances: Civil war an disgregation. Basically orc leaders started kiling each other for power and noone was able to gather enough support for maintain a united Mordor.
Excellent video! However, I particularly dislike the recurring ways in which Nurn is portrayed, almost as a verdant paradise rich in agriculture, yes indeed it was a fertile region, but we must remember that, even though it was different from Gorgoroth, it was still part of Mordor: "In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie." "Mordor is a Sindarin name. It means "Black Land". It is a compound of mor ("black, dark") and dôr ("land")." I imagine it like a dreadful and dark place, immensely sad and gloomy, a farmable Hades, infested with slave fields, pain, suffering and misery... We can see this about Nurn on the Tolkien Gateway website: "Nurn, appearing in the compound Núrnen ("sad-water"), apparently means 'sad' in Sindarin." "The southern part of Mordor, Nurn, was slighly more fertile, and moist enough to carry the inland sea of Núrnen. Nurn was made somewhat fertile because the ash blown from Mount Doom left its soil nutrient rich, thus allowing dry-land farming. Unfortunately, the inland sea of Núrn was salty, not freshwater." I think the most fertile parts were perhaps around the rivers that flowed into the Sea of Núrnen: "The lake was fed by four unnamed major rivers, of which two flowed from the Ephel Dúath and two from a mountain spur that branched off from the Ered Lithui into Lake Núrnen" It should have a semi-arid climate and an agriculture based on that type of climate, in fact, it must have a certain fertility due to the volcanic ash of Orodruin, but the waters of the lake, maybe because of the volcano's chemical components, should not be drinkable at all: "It was referred to as a bitter sea and held dark sad water, but the area around it was fertile enough to support great fields that were cultivated by slaves. An old meaning of sad is dark-coloured, in particular an unpleasant colour. Bitter is perhaps by analogy with sad or in the sense of unpalatable, referring to poisonous water from the rivers." It's interesting to think how the corruption of Morgoth tainted Arda, nothing in the beginning was evil, not even volcanoes perhaps and we can see this in their ability to generate life due to their fertile ashes, however, we can see the effect of Morgoth's evil on the world, in the lethal capacity that a volcano has, even the same ash that is capable of generating life, brings death, this duality in my view is fascinating.
Is it weird if one sees the ghost of Macedon as Numenor and Sauron as the King of the Archimedean empire? Tolkien had hybrid so much culture/history like RR Martin is doing now that everything feels like something you recognize but nothing particular.
@@EPICoutcast24 There are similarities, but neither Tolkien/RR Martin doesn't do much economics which in my view is just as important as the warfare/politics.
Note: North mountain Orcs did indeed fall under Sauron's control while the Witch King was ruling Angmar. Also note: ash from Orodruin helped fertilize the soil as well.
I always figured that Mordor had undergon some degree of medieval industrial revolution for the purposes of mass producing weapons on the assembly line.
Never knew Sauron was great economist if there was a presidential debate btw Biden and Sauron ,Sauron would provide direction especially on how to deal with gas prices and inflation.
"Not all orcs!" Where have I heard that one before!? All jokes aside, I miss the narrator's voice as I was frequent to the Kings and Generals Page over the Pacific War.
Random question, Aloy from Horizon series. Human, or Gnome or Hobbit. She has a large head and what i deem to be gnome characteristics to her face but her skinny stomach makes me think she cant be a hobbit. So is Aloy the first Gnome main female char?
1:41 and then Amazons Rings of Prime is deciding to actually portray the Orcs as an actual species even tho Tolkien deliberately did not do that because portraying an entire species as evil is not a good thing
Economy & Society of Rohan and Dale: ua-cam.com/video/W_nc60HfmhU/v-deo.html
Economy & Society of Arnor and Gondor: ua-cam.com/video/DC2f_4Y_Bq8/v-deo.html
Economy & Society of the Elves: ua-cam.com/video/JNSosH0UpaI/v-deo.html
Economy & Society of the Dwarves: ua-cam.com/video/f3h-u5mkVtY/v-deo.html
Economy & Society of the Hobbits: ua-cam.com/video/uYpqolDCIUU/v-deo.html
Our other series:
Middle-Earth - ua-cam.com/video/cVHygcEZbjY/v-deo.html
Witcher - ua-cam.com/video/VISScJAyl5s/v-deo.html
Game of Thrones - ua-cam.com/play/PL2Qq-rUSt7b3JN6nfgBaXCO-Fq2AI3m16.html
Warhammer Fantasy - ua-cam.com/video/bn1Oj9QEf3U/v-deo.html
Star Wars - ua-cam.com/play/PL2Qq-rUSt7b3RzrRLfjpViIqP5rE959xT.html
Elder Scrolls - ua-cam.com/play/PL2Qq-rUSt7b0GMTIPuM1fMHowJEFbbC9D.html
Meh
Thanks for posting! This is a useful research resource for an amateur world builder and writer such as myself.
Hey can you continue doing more warhammer fantasy instead of straight gunning for the End Times?
Are you still going to make elder scrolls videos or was the great war the last one ?
This video was a nice one. And it was fine for passing the time. But please seriously consider doing more Star Wars or Star trek video's. Anything Sci-Fi would be nice. But then again I could accept a video on Dragon Age.
Just love the idea of an orc doing quarterly reviews, having a little desk with a mug saying "Mordor's best Orc" or something.
There's a publication in Barad-dur called the Mordor Business Review... it covers the latest thinking in slave management, plunder and orc politics.
@@shastasilverchairsg vote Grog for more gate smashing!
A little poster in the corner of a fell beast or troll hanging from a rampart: "Hang in there, maggot!"
"Uruk-Hai of the Month"
Like an uncle sam needs you poster but instead its Sauron’s face saying “Do your part maggot”
“Sauron ruled wisely and well”
He gave the Orcs, men of Rhun, Haradrim, trolls, Uruks and giant spiders good jobs.
He revitalised mordors economy and industry.
He liked fancy jewellery and gave it to his lieutenants the Nazgûl.
Maintained strong borders.
Practically a normal collectivistic society.
The Social Engineer in charge of Everything and masses obeying.
The “make Mordor great again” movement
He made the Black Gate to keep the Gondorians out
@@darbyohara
I believe he was about "Build Back Better"
Morexit to take control of our borders, sovereignty and laws. What could possibly go wrong !!!
Sauron: Okay so you're going to go and raid Rohan to get me some more black horses
Orc: yes, my lord
Sauron: they have to be black though for the aesthetic, the drama just isn't believable if they're dark brown, so BLACK, okay?
Orc: of course, my lord
Sauron: good. Now go, and remember; BLACK
Orc, hurriedly walking away: yes, my lord!
Sauron: MAKE SURE THEY'RE BLACK
Months later:
Sauron: How is Gandalf travelling around so fast?
Orc: The fastest horse in Middle Earth...
Sauron: Don't tell me...
Orc: Is white.
Sauron:...
*moments later, a random orc is seen flying out of Barad Dur's highest balcony.*
"next time we'll get white or gray horses, and we'll call them "ghost horses".
Surprisingly, Mordor was home to a bustling Karaoke bar industry. The Orcs would go to these establishments to have a mug of grog and sing the stress of the day away. That’s how they ended up with hits like, “Where There’s a Whip, There’s a Way” and “Goblin Town”.
Thank you so much for making this channel and not abandoning it. I already loved Kings and Generals, but it makes me so happy to see some genuine care and concern put into this.
Can I just say that this has been my favorite Wizards and Warriors series? Economies of these fantasy works are amazing studies, I love it.
Volcanoes - and particularly volcanic ash - are usually a massive driver of land fertility. If combined with Water. Only modern fertilizers work better at this.
Quite possible that all of Mount Dooms ash went towards Nurn, which also had enough rainfall and a convenient sea - thus making that land more fertile then any other farmland in middle earth.
Likely Gorgoroth had a massive farming potential - but either lack of rain or Saurons presence prevented anything from growing there.
Mhm yea that's canon
The run-off from the mountains around Rhun would also add a lot of minerals so despite maybe not on Tolkiens mind it makes sense that Rhun would be good farmland.
Let's all grab our maggoty bread and enjoy this latest economy of Middle Earth vid on Sauron, Orcs, and their never-ending war against manflesh.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Don't forget to grab some hobbits too, they're fresh.
Maggoty bread? Didn't ya hear meats back on the menu?
I always wondered in the movies how Mordor was able to field numerically superior armies to Gondor and Rohan without any hints of agriculture or society. Now we know.
Even in the Shadow of War video game the region of Nurn is shown to be a verdant, lush area full of green grass and chirping birds. It’s the breadbasket of Mordor.
I really like these "Economy of Lord of the Rings" videos!
I wanna say that Grond, the battering ram, was probably made from mithril. It broke the Mithril gate of Minas Tirith. Magic was the main cause but I bet it was magic infused Mithril that the head was made from.
That's a sound theory - as Grond is exactly a 'weapon of war' as Gandalf mentioned
I thought that the gate was only made of Mithril _after_ the War of the Ring?
I think the gates were only made of mithril after the war and Gimli's folk repaired it.
In the Silmarillion, Morgoth's Hammer is named Grond. I always thought it was kind of a cool throw back to name the battering ram Grond, like it is the actual head of Morgoth's war hammer, and given that he was supposedly at one time the most powerful of the Maiar, its not that much of a stretch that he carried that large of a hammer.
My bad, I had to check but yeah Gimli builds them after the ring is destroyed. I always thought they were Mithril from the beginning.
I absolutely LOVE your style and presentation, and the information given in this video! Bravo, and well done. Can’t wait for more ☺️
Our Dark Lord ruled with benevolence with firm and fair hand to all Orcs and Men , unlike those Elven propagandas that constantly potray him as some tyrant hellbent on destroying everything.
There’s actually a book written in Russian that uses this as a premise. The Last Ringbearer. Essentially the book states that Tolkien’s account is the history from the perspective of the victors, and the Orcs were just another group of men who were on the cusp of an industrial revolution before they were killed in a massive genocide by men under the thrall of elves and Gandalf.
@@comradeconnolly4538 lmao
Elves are THE WORST. Although, to be fair, their women are babes.
Eleves portrayed Morgoth as nihilistic, never Sauron.
Do you work for the Kremlin press office?
While an orc baker might seem strange, we have to remember that Tolkien gave us an extremely limited viewpoint from which to see their civilization.
Orc females are never seen, for instance. They aren't dug out of the ground like what was shown in the movies, They have to breed like any other species.
I would assume that the female orcs remain at their villages/holds and handle the traditional roles most women of other mortal species took care of and therefore while the men are out on raids, they may prepare other types of food.
The interesting question here: What's in that bread? It can't be wheat, because full-blooded orcs (not the Uruk-Hai halfbreeds) cannot stand to be in the Sun so even if they wished, they can't farm outdoors. If Orcs farm, then it has to be underground, and therefore mushrooms would likely be a heavy part of their diet. Maybe they made bread out of mushrooms, somehow?
Orc women have Skaven women treatment
They just have non-orc slaves do the wheat farming. Quite common to have slave farmers throughout history.
Its wheat. But its not farmed by orcs, but by enslaved men of Nurn.
Well naturally it's maggoty.
*B r e e d i n g*
Ye say?
neat video glad you covered the Economy & Society of all groups.
Fear, Pillaging and Tribute... that's an excellent description of the British Empire.
you know there were empires way more brutal than the British Empire?
@@theawesomeman9821 : Oh, the good old "there's been worse"-excuse.
If we look at body count, level of exploitation and vastness, then there is really no one worse than Good olde Britain.
The Spanish might get close in regards of thoroughness in terms of genocide. But their reign across the world was neither as long lasting nor was it this wide spread.
If we look at on-going consequences (poverty, hunger, disease, drug proliferation, conflicts stemming from terrible borders...) then Britain takes the crown multiple times over.
But I know, people don't like to feel the guilt for the bad deeds of their country, while loving to feel proud of achievements.
Well, history can't be cherry picked... (another thing that the Britishers excell at) You have the one you have, regardless of whether you want it or not.
@@bikkiikun Both the Russians and the Germans were much, much worse in their exploitation than the British
@@Radonatorr : No, far from it... very far from it.
Britain did this for centuries, Germany only for a few decades. And while Germany worked on an industrial scale, never seen before, this just can't make up centuries of exploitation on a global scale.
And Russia... well, apart from a few decades in eastern europe, their imperial exploits were largely centred around steppe, tundra and arctic wastelands, neither of which was much populated.
Yes, Hitler, Stalin, Mao were all extremely terrible indeed... the worst of the worst in their respective times.
But the British Empire blows it all out of the water by sheer scale and timeframe.
You know, shit adds up, large shit adds up faster. And if you add up for a very long time you get quite the result.
But who is really interested in such petty details... right?
@@bikkiikun Not true at all. You are talking about the timeframe, but you are ignoring most of Central and Eastern European history at the same time, focusing only on the 20th century. This is just cherry on top.
In regards of Germany we are not talking only about the more decade of industrial scale Nazi exploitation, but also about the 120 years of German Empire's policy of purposeful oppression and erradication of Slavic cultures and languages, such as the Poles or the Czechs, or even Holy Roman Empire's genocidal crusades against the Polabians and Vieletis, which inhabited what is now Eastern Germany. Their oppression continued for many centuries and ended with their successful eradication as an ethnicity and effective Germanization (with mere remnants of the Sorbians still remaining).
Regarding Russia again, their tyranny in Central and Eastern Europe is not just mere decades of USSR, but the entire duration of the Russian Empire. Since the 16th century the Empire was conducting imperialist conquests and exploitation, and later was pushing for the policy of Russification. Russification aimed to destroy the culture and language of Ukrainians, Belarussians, Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians and Poles, which millions of intellectuals and political enemies of both the Tsar and the Communist Party sent to the forced (essentially slave) labour camps in Syberia (as the institution was first started by the Empire).
Both of them also flooded the conquered territories by German and Russian colonists. And while the Brits did most of the same things, they never purposfuly set a goal at complete erradication of any nation or ethnicity. They wanted subjugation and submition, but not complete domination of their language, culture or religion. And that's exactly what both Germans and Russians wanted. And no, the British are not winning on the timescale either. Before the Brits left their island both Germans and Russians were already engading in imperialism in the East.
But who is really interested in such details, right?
I always liked the descriptions of Mordor's defenses ans economy when I read the book. I always thought to myself that this Dark Lord had such a sweet set-up - a rich, easily defensible land, impressive fortresses, reasonably loyal / effective population of servants, productive agricultural / mining / industrial sectors, magical minions, breeding program for various monsters, my God, he had it all.
I'm honestly a bit disappointed that he screwed up, he had a really good set up. Evil aesthetics always beat out good guy aesthetics - just look at how popular Batman and anti-heroes are.
I feel he was quite justified in his attempts to invade Gondor/Middle Earth though. Given the fact that he poured his essence in the One Ring, it would be natural for him to want to reclaim it. Add to this the fact that his greatest fear was that one of the Greats (one of the Istari, or the Elven-lords, or Denethor etc) would find the Ring and make use of it, and it just makes sense that sitting back and holing up would not fit into his strategy and goals. In addition, his nature was such that he could never comprehend a creature such as a hobbit willingly giving up power as well.
He made most of Gorgoroths defenses. Like Morgoth Sauron was able to raise mountains. Morgoth made the Misty Moutains, Iron mountains, grey mountains, and Agmar mountains. Sauron did this to a lesser extent and only made the ones around Mordor
“Evil will always win because good is dumb…” - Dark Helmet
I hate these videos I wanna see the battles not this
@@shastasilverchairsg From a strictly "evil" point of view everything sauron did made sense. As he was a dark lord / inherently evil with a need to dominate every other living being it's not suprprising he acted the way he did. I wouldn't call it justifiable though
The art work that goes into these video are very well done.
Never thought I’d watch a video of the Economy of Mordor but here I am.
Making my mornings even more fantastic 👍
Sauron, a benevolent ruler, expert metaphysicist, and jewelry hobbyist died today in a unexpected tower collapse. This disaster may have been triggered by the sudden eruption of a nearby volcano. Memorial services are scheduled for sometime next week, as soon as a next of kin can be identified and notified. He was 50,000 years old.
I'm not a big fan of the genre, but I really dig these vids on the economic structure of Tolkien's world. Excellent video, K&G. And I'll see you for the next one.
These videos are such informative. Great stuff 👏
This is *GREAT* ; Thank you for this video….love it🤘
Imagine if Sauron actually used his big brain to economically dominate Middle Earth. Use his immense knowledge to increase the living standards of average middle earth citizens.
That, and other forms of subversion, may have been his original plan. The problem is that once the Ring was found, he had to work fast. It also probably didn't help that:
a) He could no longer assume a pleasing shape.
b) The wise and other rulers knew of him after the events at Dol Guldor.
Economically or ideologically subverting Middle Earth would mean having to wait until the Elves and Wizards *somehow* lost their influence to the point that no one would listen, a process that could span anywhere from decades to millennia without his making direct attempts to...curb said influence.
@@morgant.dulaman8733 like the situation we have in the modern day?
Economy of Mordor is very much like economy of USA before abolition of slavery.
They even both had agricultural south and industrial north.
Also southern slave holders also dreamed of an Empire comprised of tributary States called "the Golden Circle"
@@christianweibrecht6555
yeah, people dont often talk about how the confederacy wanted to literally build a slave empire.
7:01 Thumbs up for the Orc baker.
A cutie, eh
I’m a bakery manager I can quite imagine a bakery full of orcs. Really not that different from bakers
sauron the great menacing enemy of humanity. he is a great threat to humans and freedom of humans. brilliant video. love your vidoes from sri lanka.
Great Video overall! I liked the graphics of middle earth, you make an amazing job of providing us alternative images of so well-known characters of Tolkien's work.
One thing I found hard to follow was the writing, the way you filled the letters as you spoke through your subtitles. They weren't that clear.
Great video. The Orcs of the Grey & Misty Mountains would have been able to acquire grain from wild grasses as the Anduin valley system would have been fertile. Raids on the the remaining Northmen settlements (Woodmen) in the Anduin would have provided grain. Certain underground funguses would also have provided substinence and fish from deep mountain pools. Orcs would also have hunted the animals in the region at night. Saruman fed his army with goods from Dunland and the Shire.
Very atmospheric, great content 👌
Just a minor add: Both Orkish strongholds, Gundabad and Moria, used to be Dwarven cities. Gundabad was were Durin woke.
Gundabad was propably more like a shrine than a city, I don't think anything indicates that it had at any point a large permanent settlement.
Excellent production, thanks to this channel for this valuable insight into Tolkiens Work.
Great video!
i had hoped for such a viedo and my dream has come true.😁 The glimpse into the world beyond the (much better known) battles is really fascinating. Great Work!
Thank you for the work!
This is the video I didn't know I needed. Fleshing out Tolkien in the best way
The lands of Nurn would also be very fertile, being fed the ash from Orodruin without the darkness that kept the orcs free from the sun, which would harm and kill them. In this sense, few lands in Middle-earth would have soil so rich and bountiful, being also close to a large freshwater lake.
Great video! I really like these examinations of the economies of literary worlds.
I love this series. You should also expand this type of breakdown to popular comic book fictional lands such as Asgard, Apokolips, Latveria, Oa, Krypton, Wakanda etc.
Part of the problem of fictional planets and countries from comic books they Valeus and difficult to narrow down. But every tapestry has their common threads
As soon as I heard the narrator’s voice, I subscribed. Kings an Generals! 👍
"Morgoth created the orcs"
Small correction here - Morgoth did not "create" anything - he corrupted what already existed into twisted forms. The first Orcs were elves captured by Morgoth.
But the orcs didn't exist before him therefore it could be argued that he created them.
After all, creating something like a tool - an axe, for example, is just twisting materials into some form
@@Crock0il One would argue that beating a hammer into the shape of an axe would make it...lesser than an axe forged from raw iron.
While Morgoth "created" (for lack of a better word) the Orcs by torturing elves and feeding them foul things, they were elves to begin with and deep down, still have elven origins.
It's not like Morgoth sang the Orcs into existence like Iluvatar did with everything in creation.
EDIT: In short...Evil does not create. It can only corrupt.
@@Darkdaej the things that Morgoth and his following Miar sang was room for evil things like the orcs to be twisted
@@Darkdaej beating iron into the shape of a hammer would make it lesser than raw iron, but it's still going to be iron (and some wood I guess) deep down going with that logic.
No need for a correction - elves weren't orcs before Morgoth twisted them. Thus, Morgoth did create the orcs
Middle management orcs in the boardroom;
"we've just heard back from the finance director, and unfortunately there will have to be redundacies" 😂
Great video
The idea of an orc bakery is interesting
I always thought the Orcs would pillager villages and farms for food but I never knew that they had their own agriculture thought I am not surprised that they would use slaves to do the work.
Is it just me or Mordor sounds like the Sith Empire based on Dromund Kaas in a certain sense? As you can see, both realms lasted for more than a thousand years and were still strong when they faced their enemies.
Yeah there's a *ton* of inspiration taken from LotR throughout Star Wars, George was clearly using WW2 in a similar way, if more directly allegorical than Tolkien
Tolkien inspired many other fantasies
@@JainaSoloB312 i thought lucas made star wars using Vietnam from the norths perspective, with the empire representing the states.
@@haslamabad_ Definitely that too! Pretty much everything about the Empire from the Stormtroopers to the entire trench run is steeped in WW2 iconography. He also gave all the Imperials English accents to evoke the American Revolutionary War where the US were the plucky rebels fighting a literal British Empire.
But by the time of RotJ he used the Empire to represent the USA and the Ewoks as the Viet Cong, as he had come to realize (or finally had the courage to say it) that the USA would prove to be on the wrong side of history in that conflict.
@@JainaSoloB312 very interesting read, thank you for the info
Nice work dude thanks
The orcs said the word "menu" in the films, i guess that means there are orc restaurants.
Excellent series!
Love the animations!
I crave a book where people campaign against slavery for strictly pragmatic reasons instead of moral
Learning about the pre Civil War differences between northern and southern state economies show that overall slavery is less productive
Whatalthist has a good flowchart of how crippling slave societies are in a few of his videos
Slavery was less productive and was on its way out until the cotton gin was invented, which suddenly meant that a single slave could produce way more cotton at a way higher rate. Suddenly the almost free labor became extremely valuable.
There are of course other pragmatic reasons to oppose slavery, as shown in Rome when slavery was basically the equivalent of outsourcing and so certain politicians campaigned on bringing back jobs to ordinary citizens.
cheaper/slave labor, whilst productive in terms of resources and raw material, ultimately screws over the local population as they cannot compete with free labor, which is one of the reasons the south, despite its wealth and universities, had an impoverished and illiterate population, as all that education only reached the top elite.
More like the Roman Empire than the US.
Nurn was for sure very dry. Surrounded on three sides by mountains and then by very large strip of land. Perhaps this contributed to the war, once Sauron had gathered a bug army, he had to conquered land to feed it.
Nurn is said to be a lush, fertile land used for slave plantations lol
East Nurn has no monts, I guess East, outside the map, there is an near sea, and Mordor mounts take the rains of the moonsoon.
Nice job!
Never actually thought the orcs had an economy , but I ain't complaining about this revelation .
Slave economy, bit like the Skaven in Warhammer Total War
So did the men of Lake Nurnen form a kingdom and became an ally of Gondor?
They became apart of the reunited kingdom. Everywhere from the sea of Rhun, to Nurn, to the old Numanorean colonies, to Angmar the kingdom controlled all (except dwarf holds and elf areas).
Please PLEASE do an episode on the life and economy of the Dunlendings I have always found the history of the men who refused to go to numenor and subsequently became the middle men who would later be exploited and discriminated against by their own distant kin to be fascinating. Only two choices remain for these people. Be a second class citizen or side with the white wizard who makes all these nice promises of retaking their old homelands (rohan).
The Dunlendings always occupied a bit of an odd spot lorewise.
Whilst Tolkien's setting isnt entirely black and white in terms of morality, to have the Dunlendings be brutalized, slaughtered and chased off their land by the progenitors of the rohirrim, and subsequently treated like second class citizens barely above orcs... its a bit grimdark.
I think the Men who did not cross the Mountains into Beleriand were actually the natives of Arnold, not the Dunlendings.
Mordor telling neighbors to pay tribute or face death reminds of how Ottomans once terrorized the world.
Basically any empire that has existed.
You killed me with that Orc baker 🤣
Due to the diet of Orcs and other lesser creatures, the draw to battle might have helped fulfil a basic need, if you fight, win and survive you have a pick of the dinner table (ie the battfield) afterward.
Will you make videos like this for warhammer fantasy
I always considered that passage of Tolkien that orcs just scattered after Sauron dies to be way off from the consistent details in the novel, and for this reason i simply couldnt believe it.
basically, i think orcs had a distinct free will and ability to discern what was good for them and what wasnt.
yes, both Morgoth and Sauron enthralled the orcs (meaning enslaved) and probably there was some group mind control of SOME level, but it was never complete mind control. why would otherwise orcs need to be supervised and whipped by other orcs to go to the battle they obviously dont want to participate in?
existence of independent realms, conversation between shagrat and gorbag, all of them indicate free will much like that of elves and humans.
i think that adding that passage that orcs simply killed themselves after sauron was defeated was a cop-out; after good won, you needed some way to get rid of the evil ASAP. so this kind of worked.
Well, after sudenly disapear the power that maintained them together, what I think is that they would inmediately do what happens in those circunstances: Civil war an disgregation.
Basically orc leaders started kiling each other for power and noone was able to gather enough support for maintain a united Mordor.
next video "the economy of isengard"!
Make series for World of Warcraft pls?
Could you please do a video on the Battle of Autobot City?
I would love to see something about the relationships between metallic dragons and the humanoid societies in dungeons & dragons
Nice use of withertos and whyfors
Video 2 of asking for a First Age LotR series
This is the closest we ever get to societhy and economy of orcs trolls and dragons soo I accept!
Incredible
Excellent video!
However, I particularly dislike the recurring ways in which Nurn is portrayed, almost as a verdant paradise rich in agriculture, yes indeed it was a fertile region, but we must remember that, even though it was different from Gorgoroth, it was still part of Mordor:
"In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie."
"Mordor is a Sindarin name. It means "Black Land". It is a compound of mor ("black, dark") and dôr ("land")."
I imagine it like a dreadful and dark place, immensely sad and gloomy, a farmable Hades, infested with slave fields, pain, suffering and misery...
We can see this about Nurn on the Tolkien Gateway website:
"Nurn, appearing in the compound Núrnen ("sad-water"), apparently means 'sad' in Sindarin."
"The southern part of Mordor, Nurn, was slighly more fertile, and moist enough to carry the inland sea of Núrnen. Nurn was made somewhat fertile because the ash blown from Mount Doom left its soil nutrient rich, thus allowing dry-land farming. Unfortunately, the inland sea of Núrn was salty, not freshwater."
I think the most fertile parts were perhaps around the rivers that flowed into the Sea of Núrnen:
"The lake was fed by four unnamed major rivers, of which two flowed from the Ephel Dúath and two from a mountain spur that branched off from the Ered Lithui into Lake Núrnen"
It should have a semi-arid climate and an agriculture based on that type of climate, in fact, it must have a certain fertility due to the volcanic ash of Orodruin, but the waters of the lake, maybe because of the volcano's chemical components, should not be drinkable at all:
"It was referred to as a bitter sea and held dark sad water, but the area around it was fertile enough to support great fields that were cultivated by slaves. An old meaning of sad is dark-coloured, in particular an unpleasant colour. Bitter is perhaps by analogy with sad or in the sense of unpalatable, referring to poisonous water from the rivers."
It's interesting to think how the corruption of Morgoth tainted Arda, nothing in the beginning was evil, not even volcanoes perhaps and we can see this in their ability to generate life due to their fertile ashes, however, we can see the effect of Morgoth's evil on the world, in the lethal capacity that a volcano has, even the same ash that is capable of generating life, brings death, this duality in my view is fascinating.
Who else wants an Orc accountant? "Time to CUT TAXES!"
Is it weird if one sees the ghost of Macedon as Numenor and Sauron as the King of the Archimedean empire? Tolkien had hybrid so much culture/history like RR Martin is doing now that everything feels like something you recognize but nothing particular.
The parallels to history are interesting in how they don’t quite line up, for example Arnor and Gondor sort of work as a declining Roman Empire
@@EPICoutcast24 There are similarities, but neither Tolkien/RR Martin doesn't do much economics which in my view is just as important as the warfare/politics.
Note: North mountain Orcs did indeed fall under Sauron's control while the Witch King was ruling Angmar.
Also note: ash from Orodruin helped fertilize the soil as well.
Despite the pathetic new Lord of The Rings show, I'm glad we have good content like this keeping the spark alive.
1:46 When your assistant store manager is better than your store manager…
I can't get over the idea of an Orc Bakery.
Pls do the Battle of Unnumbered Tears!
Do a video on Soul Reaver, or the Legacy of Kain games in general please
I always figured that Mordor had undergon some degree of medieval industrial revolution for the purposes of mass producing weapons on the assembly line.
Nice
i've been looking forward to this
Do Overlord Anime it is fantasy and their battles. Also world building
Much better than anything those so called "Tolkien Scholars" shills would ever make. Im pretty sure this is one of my favorite yt channels ever
@Wizards and Warriors can you make a video on How Saruman Ruled Isengard.
Could you also do Wheel of Time, Narnia, Game of Thrones, etc.
*Happy 4th of July!* 🎆🎇🧨✨
any source on background music ?
Wonder how Sauron will be portrayed in Amazon Prime's, "Rings of Power"?
Never knew Sauron was great economist if there was a presidential debate btw Biden and Sauron ,Sauron would provide direction especially on how to deal with gas prices and inflation.
"Not all orcs!" Where have I heard that one before!?
All jokes aside, I miss the narrator's voice as I was frequent to the Kings and Generals Page over the Pacific War.
Missed opportunity to call it an Orconomy
Random question, Aloy from Horizon series.
Human, or Gnome or Hobbit. She has a large head and what i deem to be gnome characteristics to her face but her skinny stomach makes me think she cant be a hobbit. So is Aloy the first Gnome main female char?
I imagine that Mordor's bread was produced by the human slaves of Nurn that also work the fields there to produce grain.
yearly audit must be really peaceful in Mordor.
Fucking awesome vid! 11/10
1:41 and then Amazons Rings of Prime is deciding to actually portray the Orcs as an actual species
even tho Tolkien deliberately did not do that because portraying an entire species as evil is not a good thing
Looks like MEAT really was on the menu, boys