The Game You SHOULD Be Hyped For
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2020
- Ken Levine's Talk at GDC - • Ken Levine On 'Narrati...
Voice of Gandhi - / @mister_domm
Outro Background is made by ArgRIB on Steam. It's a custom Wallpaper Engine background and is absolutely beautiful. steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
Today, DJ Peach Cobbler discusses a mystery game in development by a strange studio that rose from the ashes of a titan. Wow, sounds dramatic, huh? Which is fitting actually. Because can a systemic story be really dramatic? This video is gonna be all over the place at first. I'm gonna discuss storytelling in Civilization 5, Middle Earth: Shadow of War, then Bioshock Infinite for a bit. I don't spoon feed stuff to you in this video. Maybe you'll see what I see?
System Shock 2 but with a systemic story inspired by Civilization/Shadow of War? Pretty cool, right? What happened to Bioshock? Will there be a Bioshock Infinite 2? Definitely not, why are you asking? But can there be a spiritual successor to the Bioshock franchise?
Whatever, you should subscribe because I'm cool. - Ігри
its such a shame WB patented the nemesis system to make sure we will never see it again
The patent is being desolved next year I believe so that's interesting
@@RageDuck942 LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
@@RageDuck942 Hope to gaben that it gets dissolved.
@@RageDuck942 Where did you hear that the patent is getting removed?
I find that hard to believe it took many attempts for them to get the patent approved and it's only been approved this year WB aren't dissolving it anytime soon. The fact the nemesis system was built on top of existing mechanics taken from other games and then patented is just a scummy thing to do FUCK WB
an interesting detail i liked about Shadow of War's nemesis system is that it remembers your nemesis from the previous game, and during a mission you have to fight him. i remember i had a nemesis from Shadow of Mordor who refused to die. to the point of where his entire body was covered is cloth wraps and stitches. when i eventually moved on to playing Shadow of War, there he was, standing in my way. during a main quest no less.
Yeah. That happened and I went.
"WAIT A FUCKING SECOND WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE!"
That sounds like an awesome thing to experience!
That legit sounds like an awesome moment.
thats awesome,
I had the exact same thing happen. This guy had killed me all throughout the previous game, and when I saw him in Shadow of War, I got genuinely quite afraid of this orc that had followed me, even between games.
no joke I was scared doom eternal wouldn't be featured, I can't sleep proper if the streak is broken
SPOILER FUCKING ALERT
4:28 "ay ay ay don't attack him, he's violently murdering our boss."
They're very polite
bet they are
"Y-you nuked him?"
"Oh no, that g-"
_"I_ WAS GOING TO NUKE HIM!"
"... What?"
"WHAT?"
Im a big fan of Shadow of Mordor/War, and the concept of npcs with memories, and I couldnt wait for the nemesis system to show up in other games... but it never did... Memory is the most basic first step for creating a beliveble AI, and so many games dont even bother. Remember the original Deus Ex? Its npcs are so good, they felt real, reactive, intelligent, beacause they remember.
The potential of a Skyrim level game with a nemesis system: kings, noble houses, multiple gods with multiple temples, mages guilds, adventure guilds, orc clans, vampire clans, daedra clans... The creatores of Daggerfall are making a spiritual sequel and I cant wait to see.
Ken Levine actually says in his lecture that something that can produce Game of Thrones-like stories is his goal, and I found the more I thought about such a system being applied to Skyrim, the more stories DID start to resemble that. Hopefully such a system in a fantasy game will only produce stories from Seasons 1-5.
It is possible to build relations with NPCs in Skyrim though All it amounts to is getting gold for killing/beating up someone someone else didn't like or getting some inheritance when a person you did like ended up dead.
If I remember correctly, WB Montreal actually patented the "Nemesis system" so now, only they can make games with such a mechanic, which may be the reason we don't see any other devs trying to implement it.
I've been playing Hades and one thing I love is how since you are a god, when you die you just get transported back home, and you can talk with npc's and talk about the progress you made in getting close to escaping the underworld. Everyone knows that you keep dying and that you will just keep throwing yourself through the gauntlet.
One major part I love is how bosses actually remember past encounters with you both in victory and in defeat. And if you keep beating the bosses over and over they will actually become stronger as well, usually by adding new attacks or different forms.
When I actually made it outside I had one final fight with Hades himself, when I died and returned home I talked to Hypnos, who lets you know what you were killed by, he tells me I was killed by REDACTED when I got killed by Hades a second time Hypnos tells me I got killed by REDACTED again and actually starts to wonder who or what that even is.
Red Dead 2 has a basic form of this.
"Magical ISIS" sounds like one of the indie movies I was forced to watch at a local cinema when I was little
Bob these edits are juicy congrats on hitting the 1k mark
Thanks, man. I appreciate it a lot, it felt good hitting that milestone
@@DJPeachCobbler man you grew fast then
@@righttwix574 that’s what I just realized
@@youngwindmillgang3239 Oh yeah, it's exploded since I hit 10k like a month ago. It's nice to see my videos blow up like this, thank you for watching!
@@DJPeachCobbler nice man I just found ur UA-cam like 3 days ago but I’ve been watching a lot of you’re vids I really like them keep it up I also really like you’re bioshock vid
You, Martincitopants, Sseth and that other guy are the only blokes that can tickle my funny bone these days
(Y) *Same*
Is "that other guy" max0r?
@@oblix4804 Mandalor or Civvie probs
jacob geller and leadhead are pretty cool too
disagree to disagree
I now wish to see Sauron cutting in line at the bank.
That's when the realm of man does a Michael Jordan "..and, I took that personally"
The game you want sounds like a fancier version of Mount and Blade
I was going to say this exactly
What really strikes me about Ken Levine's idea is how cost effective and doable it is.
Like he said, writing is relatively cheap, and it's also probably easier when just writing every possibility in a ruleset rather than what makes sense in a certain story context or message.
And rulesets are essentially just stats, numbers that can be easily adjusted and balanced. Dungeons & Dragons is just a ruleset, one that could be run by a calculator, and yet the stories generated from that are endless.
To top it all off, it's cheap. Money is always a factor for corporations. A game like this is a prime candidate for small to moderate funding. Low cost, high payout if at all successful.
Stories generated by DnD are endless because you have real people as DMs telling those stories. You don't have a real person making up the story by reacting to your choices in a video game.
If a small studio can make hades with it's 300,000 word script. I should think it wouldn't be too expensive
*Warner Bros Patents the Nemesis System* uh oh Cobbleh what have you done
So that's the game where the "Press Y to shame" button came from.
Fallout 3 or 2
Knocked it out of the park again DJ Peach Cobbler! I too have that longing for something that can be fresh and playable over and over that actually has choices that I want to make, not suggestions that I have to follow. A "kindly" suggestion that I absolutely have to follow. I don't want it waved in my face with a wink and a nod like that anymore. It makes me feel like I'm missing something, like I'm not smart enough for the writers/story to come to the conclusions I did.
Levine actually said something to the effect of: "'Would you kindly' only works once" in his lecture. I wholeheartedly agree. Bioshock Infinite rattling on about how you don't have free will in a game was bizarre to say the least... considering they'd already made that same observation in the first one. I imagine it's another effect of its troubled development.
Regardless, glad you enjoyed the video!
@@Miguel-yx9zg I loved it in 2011, still playing it over again and again now. I just wish there was more. Someguy2000 and TheOverseer mods really add a lot though.
this could be what Immersive Sims need.
Really like your profile picture! Made me smile and I hope you have a good day
The idea you're talking about in this vid and that apparently Ken Levine is working on, is a dream game i'm imagining for a very long time now. And i never imagined that it would possibly be able to get done because of how ambitious it is. I thought all the time and work that would be needet to pull this off would be too much. But honestly if Ken Levine could realize this in that magnitude, it would be groundbreaking.
Amazing video and the bit at 9:26 is hilarious 🤣
Don't know if he can pull it off, but excited to see him try. Glad you liked the bit lol
@@DJPeachCobbler hell yeah me too. I'm definetely gonna keep an eye on Ghost Story Games.
I really hope that Ken can make real this idea
As long as the attempt happens, even if it fails. I'd really want to see the development of the idea. I actually want to see and play any scrapped ghost story games game and follow their process throughout the years. Because the satisfaction of if or when they pull it off would be immense.
I just figured out I watched this video for the third time. I think the reason is because his videos are very different and take turns, man it's crazy
We are still far far off from true butterfly effect choices in games but this is definitely seems like a step towards that big hype
(Also congrats on 1,000 subs definitely deserve it)
It's just wild that our lil cobbler was putting out this level of content and wasn't getting the love it deserves. Glad it is now
My Ar-Janek was an Orc named Gund The Mad... The man refused to killed me and would just yell "Oink oink little chicken!!" after downing me for the 3rd time
So there's this game called space station 13 and it's similar to this sort of system by simply being multiplayer. obviously its very different from the hypothetical singleplayer ai type system but it's still incredibly good. Maybe you bribe the head of your department to let you do traitorous activities, maybe you get kidnapped by some evildoer and create some custom meth grenades to get revenge. The system being player operated means that the possibilities are basically infinite.
"i see....you are a man of culture as well" - what do you think of the move to copyright this nemesis system?
Great video! You made a good point about the gameplay story as I never thought about it that way.
Something that at least gives you the FEELING of being part in such a system, is in my opinion Mount&Blade Warband. Despite being full of flaws, not a single game before gave me the feeling of having such an Impact on the world around me. People recognize me sometimes, when I did something or interacted in a certain way with another character. They hate or like each other, and sometimes it can be a real struggle to decide, if I wanna continue to support a certain lord, betray him and help another to get a big chunk of land or...just become a Lord by my own. I know, the game system is not nearly as polished as it has to be to fit in here. But it is about the feeling. And that, oh boy...Warband got it really right.
I must have watched all your game related videos 3-4 times. I hope you keep on making them!
That bit on the gay 2K boss perfectly sums up corporate "inclusion culture"
Shit man, last time I watched your vids, you were only 100 subs and now you already hit 1k. Congrats dude!
Coming back to this video 2 years later and it has aged very well. Modders for Skyrim have begun to utilize Chat GPT style ai to expand upon the existing radiant system, as reported by the Gaming Bible in relation to Art of the Machine. We are approaching a point in which games will literally write themselves. Combine this with rapidly advancing voice emulation software, they can be entirely voice acted without outside input. I am both afraid, and intrigued, by our Turing test of a future.
I was wondering why this two year old video was constantly being suggested to me by UA-cam over the past week. I finally watched it, did some digging, and learned about a new upcoming game which was just announced that I am certainly hyped for now. Thanks Peach!
Thank you. Like really. This interviews and talks from Ken deserve way more attention that what people realize.
this levine guy is a perfect physical mixture of ben stiller and steve carell and i can’t unsee it
I love how you take these games into a broader perspective. It really makes me appreciate them more.
I subbed like 3 weeks ago and I am slowly going through your catalog. Seeing u at 133k subs now when u had 1k 9 months ago genuinly blows my mind
this is some god tier content, editing and segways are on point, love your videos already
can confirm, i have grew a beard in highschool and my family instantly died
Congrats on 1K keep up the good work man. Also if they need to write a lot for the story might as well call up obsidian
im so glad i was searchig for something farcry3 related and u popped up in my recommendations cause you make some great content lol and the skits are awesome keep up the great work
Really interesting topic! I think the trend of building out player centric worlds is slowly coming to a middle with more simulation based worlds hopefully eventually becoming the default.
"show me something evil that sauron did" ...the first lines say he was trying to conquer the world
Difference between showing and telling. There's a reason the Russian novel 'The Last Ringbearer' exists.
We see him try and take over the world at the beginning of the film and during the war of the ring itself, so I’m not sure what he’s on about.
@@CunkGungler we are told and shown that he is trying to take over the world and straight enslave everyone (in the movies) obviously In the books your told and it's "described'
@@vrinnmetagen is he trying to enslave everyone? He is clearly willing to work with humans from the east. The only people who seem to be somewhat enslaved are the orcs. We are certainly told Sauron seeks to enslave the world, but he is only shown to be yet another warlord with a fantasy aesthetic.
Now, obviously sauron is trying to enslave everyone, he's just that kind of villain and we are TOLD this. The scouring of the shire kind of illustrates this. But I think the films was really missing a bit on what every day life is/would be like under the Sauron regime. Its a simple matter of show vs tell. Being shown something is always much much more effective than just being told it. For example, showing two people in love rather than just saying 'these two people are in love'
The films are still masterpiecs though, make no mistake.
I love how in the civ games ghandi is well known in the fandom for being a complete psychopath that nukes everything
This is why I love RimWorld. It's less of a base builder and more of a story generator.
The nemesis system is really cool, hope to see more of it
You know, I sit here, months later, experience this for the first time, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the game he alludes to, will be some kind of MMO, especially along the lines of like second life or fiveM.
It's right on the cusp, and we are almost there. Almost.
Congrats on 1k bro
love yer dang monologs, they're great.
I love that part of bio infinite made me feel like I was about to meet st Peter
Maybe the guards in fallout attacked you not because the devs did not think someone would do that but because you attacked someone unprevoked who to the guards knowledge just sells food
Mount and blade is probably one of the best examples of what your talking about in this video
I am now looking forward to your Dwarf Fortress video.
How to talk about how amazing dwarf fortress is without mentioning dwarf fortress
Had a feeling you'd overtake me pretty quickly xD
The reason Sauron really isn't a hateable villain is because the story isn't about defeating Sauron, it's about the Journey they took to do it; about all the stuff they had to go through to get to Mt. Doom and dare I say the friends they made along the way. I understand why you would think that though, if the movie was ABOUT defeating Sauron then he wouldn't serve the roll that very well. Now it the Movie was about defeating Sauron they would have characterized him better to fill the roll.
The company/developer you are looking for raising all those questions is The Paradox Interactive. Yes, they are very shitty with their dlc policy but one thing they do always and right is - building a game where story unfolds itself through your actions. Sometimes even WITHOUT your actions. Mount and Blade, Stellaris, Europa Universalis. All of them have a set world and npcs/AIs with set goals and likes/dislikes, they interact not only with you but between each other (the point you raised about everything being only a response only to your actions). They are like civ in your argument but amped up by a thousand. They don’t have set stories, they don’t even have a set goal for you - the player. It’s literal sandbox with your own little plastic shovel and you are not THE kid, you are one of many kids sitting in it.
Thanks for giving me some hope in game development.
Mount and blade 2 bannerlord is the game that does almost everything you talked about in your video.
Thanks man your efforts are appreciated 🙏 some wonderful vids..
Man, I'm exactly at 7:19 minutes in and you have simultaneously made me intrigued in what your talking about; along with making me say "what in fuk is this pie saying to my sleep deprived ass" and honestly.... that is the type of content everyone needs in their feed.
This wass just randomly recomended to me and I love it thx Yt
The human iguana meat thing in Fallout... it absolutely figures that of all the things you'd stumble ass backwards into the one properly unfinished sidequest the game has (I can think of a few more examples, but none as jarring). Fallout 1 usually is so much better about this, but here's a snippet from an interview:
"The blackmail storyline at Iguana Bob's. Chris Taylor had set up the whole Iguana Bob buying cannibal chunks earlier in the game, and when I got to Bob's I thought to myself "what if, instead of exposing him, what if you could blackmail Bob instead?" I'd never seen an RPG that had ever allowed you to do that before, so I worked with the scriptors to make it happen. Unfortunately, when I moved off Fallout, the plotline fell off the radar, because the player *should* have been able to report him to the police, but Dave Hendee (who did the Hub Police) was busy with a *lot* of stuff at the time. You know the saying about draining the swamp
when you're up to your ass in alligators, well the alligators in the swamp at the end of any computer game project are like Jurassic alligators, so I don't blame Dave if all the quests aren't covered. It would have been nice to have patched it, though."
So yeah, it's not a case of "they didn't think of the thing I'd want to do". They DID (and indeed it was the first thing they thought of, what ended up in the game is an attempt at increasing player options and choices). Actually implementing it is what fell through the cracks. Which makes for a quite different twist on the same theme than the one you've used it for in the video.
Honestly that concept put forth sounded absolutely awesome. You'd end up with what is essentially an infinitely replayable game because each time you did something different could result in a butterfly effect of other things happening.
i never really thought of it but computation is being used in other industries already. i use it in the construction industry to design buildings, it has been used in the automotive industry to design cars (the czinger 21C). why not apply computation to NPCs in a game as well. have parameters enter into the NPC and then the computer figures out there actions and re-actions to events. it's brilliant.
Oh and btw whatever Levine makes next will certainly be interesting, the man is super passionate
So an immersive sim but for game play and narrative. Sounds awesome.
This sounds amazing man
DJPC I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. I truly hope for some of these ideas to be implemented in future Bethesda games. Todd always has said “We know what those games will be like, we just couldn’t do it yet” perhaps this is a part of that
You should give Crusader Kings 2 or 3 a look. The way the AI rulers all have traits and interact with each other really reminds me of what is talked about in this video.
Why does this only have 2,800 views? This shit is gold
That would be wild
The game he's talking about already exists its StarSector and its been in out (in early access) for 8 years.
And no its not dead in development.
I didn't know they were still working on a game. That's good to know and I believe in these people's vision. I'm looking forward to it's success.
the villain of my shadow of war run was (name i forgot) the humiliator. my build was based around returning from last chance with full hp and might, but the humiliator would just teleport away and gain more power every time they downed me. they did this easily atleast 8 times
Well I hope Ken Levine finishes his game and pushing forward gameplay another generation. Lord knows we need it.
You know what happened to the last guy that told me 'to kill or not to kill little girls' was an interesting game play dilemma... 0:38
Another great video. If this supposed game ever comes to fruition... my body is ready.
When I started watching you had 44.1k subscribers and now have 44.3k, you deserve it your content is very well made.
Edit: Now its 44.5k and its been like 5 minutes.
these videos are amazing. there some of the only videos that aren't just 15 minutes of filler with 2 seconds of real content 15 midroll ads
I meant to put an and before the 15
- You have a wife? I don't remember authorising that.
That's the best darkest joke about game development. I seriously laughed hard at it. I laughed so hard that it almost made me feel like a bad person. Almost.
Wildermyth seems like an interesting take on this concept too.
What I'd give for a full video on the middle earth series and their nemesis AI
Imagine the time when AI can generate the dialog of every charachter based on a combination of their traits, with sliders to determine the character's personality like trustworthiness, jealousy, economic hardship or lack of, greed, religiousness, and more, and the ai would generate dialogue for each of those personalities in seconds for cents, so that studios could make this type of game super easily
its not quite that cheap, but we're close to that now we have a good natural language generator like chat-gpt. just need to develop the system to feed it instructions and manage the memory of what interactions have happened in game and what was said. so still a mountain of work, but like half way there.
@@EvelynNdenial there's a skyrim mode out right now that let's you have conversations with npc's with chatgpt, which isn't perfect, but were probobally closer than you think. If a couple of skyrim mods can do that, a AAA game studio could probobally do better.
9:24 this sketch is a masterpiece
so, table top rpg style story telling but as a video games?
hell yeah
The idea of NPC interactions and dynamic relationships is what I wanted for cyberpunk 2077
I wish Ken the best of luck in creating the thing that videogames can be. I know I want it. Civ 5, Mount and Blade, modded S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and recently Kenshi all give me that itch of playing a game where I'm not the center of it. That even if I stood afk in one spot, the game world would still change, still be dynamic enough. That the choices I make could potentially have lasting consequences in the game world, heavily affecting it. They are all still limited, but still give me that glimpse of what a true living game world could be.
Not gonna lie, I kinda wanna try my hand at Shadow of War cause of this video. It sounded similar to events I experienced in Mount and Blade of essentially forming my own personal rivalry with the random lords of an enemy kingdom, all who were repeatedly growing to hate me with every defeat they had at my blade, and who I grew to hate due to them constantly trying to pillage my fiefs.
Damn, I need to play Mount and Blade. Shadow of War takes awhile before the nemesis system really starts to shine, but it's on gamepass for PC if you wanna try it out
@@DJPeachCobbler I'm fine with a slow burn. All the games I mentioned in my comment with the possible exception of modded S.T.A.L.K.E.R. can take a while to really get going.
When it comes to Mount and Blade, I wanna recommend Warband because its cheap and I'm fairly certain its on sale a lot. They are made by a small studio so unfortunately suffer from a presentation standpoint as well as jank.
But man all it took was a simple mod to allow me to become a regular soldier in an army to have one of my favourite campaigns. If you fall within the games niche, you are gonna have a new favourite.
I would recommend you try Space Rangers HD: a war apart. It is on Steam, and has the dynamic world where you dont really matter much
~12:00
Wait WHAT!? All this time it was a video about Civilization 5? REALY!? Maaaaaan....
“Like Voldemort, tries to kill a baby and is in charge of magical isis” lmfao dude I can’t tell you how long and how hard I wheezed at this, cobbler youre amazing
This video gave me whiplash
The more your videos I watch, the more I believe that you may like Mount and Blade
Solid video and good thoughts on video game narratives. Bioshock Infinite is easily my favorite out of the series, mainly due to the art and style of the game being downright jaw-dropping. They made me feel nostalgic for a time I never actually lived. The story was good and was able to evoke some of the questions that the writers intended, but to me the setting and world they created significantly overshadowed the story.
This makes me hyped and I haven’t played any of those games.
13:00 sooooo, dwarf fortress adventure mode in, like, 10 years.
having finished the video; god damn you really just want DF adventure mode with a AAA studio. and yeah, me too. if i could sell my soul to give tarn adams infinite money and immortality so he could have all the time and resources to make the perfect game i would.
Damn, this dude needs to play Dwarf Fortress. Infinite story-telling potential. xD
13:00 that game is called dwarf fortress and the text version will melt down any computer not fueled with liquid nitrogen
I think something really close to this concept can be seeing in fallout new Vegas with the different factions and liked system
That domestic abuse joke at 10:00 hits different. God I love this man.
Really curious what you'd think about Kenshi, not sure if I'm brain broken and first heard about it from you, but really fits into the "create a system and let the player go"
What you want exists and is called a tabletop rpg. But more seriously: I would really love to see something like the NPC system you describe
Welp, Judas was just announced =)
That game developer meeting scene with 2k was on point
There's this indie game called Wildermyth that does some of what's described here. It's a turn based tactical RPG that uses pretty clever procedural generation for its characters and events while having a man made overarching plot. It does a pretty good job of creating these events that the player gives significance to. Things happen to the characters that have lasting effects on them, giving them throughout the campaign their own quirks and identities. You have some control on where some of them go, so it feel a bit like D&D, where you find out what you want from your character on the go.
I encourage anyone interested in these sorts of experiences to try it. I'm more of a crafted narrative person myself, but I saw that some people loved the game far more than me.
You were supposed to be able to tell the guards and backstab the guy but it was cut